If I'm understanding this correctly , the centrifugal has less weight, less heat and is more drivetrain friendly with boost coming on later. This setup is more drivable... Also , this setup should effect gas mileage a little less. I can live with that. Congrats once again, Zander !
Ok so I have a 700whp whipple 2020 gt. My buddy has 670 ess 2019. We swapped keys and enjoyed each other's cars as a breath of fresh air. He like the hit of the whipple I likes the surprise up top at 6000rpm and up. Can't go wrong with either in my opinion
Personally I feel the supercharger you selected was a excellent choice for your Mach 1 keeping under the hood closer to it's stock appearance. Installation appeared much earlier than adding a screw style blower or turbos. If required, it would be much easier putting the car back to stock. A great power adder for a substantial horsepower gain at thousands less than a Hellion kit or a Whipple style twin screw blower. From what I've seen so far. I'm a fan of your selection.
Battle, I absolutely love my procharger on my 2019 10 speed automatic. From a 40-50 roll it is hard, very hard to run me down. I done a lot of research before I went with the procharger and like you said, with the rooted superchargers you're fighting the car and while racing not having to fight the car takes 1 less risky equation out of the race
The thing about your supercharger is that they like to put the air intake above the exhaust in front of the firewall. Not sure if they're still doing that but it was the stupidest thing I have ever seen.
I like power up top. The Mustang doesn't need power down low, it needs GRIP. When it gets grip, and you have the power up top, it's Amazing and never stops pulling.
This was a big help thank you! Ugh I hate that it sounds like centrifugal sounds like what I want because the twin screw has such a prettier/classic look under the hood.
Great info and a very good presentation! I used to think a Whipple style was what I wanted if I ever supercharge, based on the appearance, but the sound of the ESS centrifugal is so sweet. And it is certainly easier to install. Almost 40k subscribers, and 10 million views! That's really great Alex!
Both are such great blowers. It’s always hard to choose 😉 I’ve always like the top mount blowers but this centri is so fun. I still like both types though for different reasons
So I have never had a boosted car w that being said w everything I've looked up and researched I personally would go w ess or procharger. Mainly for drivability and it won't kill my launch at the dragstrip. So hopefully when the budget has a spot in it centrifugal is the way I'll go. Good video bud!
I own a 2016 f150 with the 2.3 Roush TVs and I also own a currently stock 2018 A10 GT Mustang that I am planning to do the ESS on. I couldn't agree more with your points about the TVs absolutely kicking in low and strong, it was probably a mistake on the truck and I'm now thinking an ESS would make a pretty phenomenal kit for the F-150 which is already super light in the ass end and struggles with traction majorly.
I think you did a great job of clearifying it down to "where do you want your boost". I think it means a lot that you have experienced both types of "blowers". The only problem I have with the centrifugal supercharger, with straight cut gears, is the box of rocks sound. On the other hand I do like the wine of the twin screw.
I went with a centrifugal and upgraded it with an air-water intercooler. Centri = higher hp at higher rpms Roots = higher hp at lower rpms At what rpms do you do you want your hp?
Love my centrifugal blowers … like the linear build of power, recovery of AIT, and that whistle 😉 … have had several root style as well and with the Florida heat … significant cool down time
It also very much depends on the kind of blower you're running and how efficient it is and how hard you're spinning it and what if any cooling system upgrades you have. The 2650 tvs is very efficient you can make heat soak not much of an issue with the proper cooling upgrades.
@@midnight347 the issue is that if you already dropping 8-10k on one of those top mount blowers it should already come with a great efficiently cooling supply. That's why the centri is a great bang for the buck when you're roll racing the centri is in its sweet spot and if the same cars run twice or three times the centri car will put perform the top mount blowers setups because of heat soak
I like what you’ve installed on your Mach 1. I haven’t had much experience with a forced induction engine , a couple of turbo charged cars that were stock . I do have a 20 RS3 now and I’m loving it . It’s stock and for me that’s perfect. Yes the kick is very quick as you stated immediately. Traction control helps out with traction. We went on a 4 hour ride last Sunday with 24 other Mustangs. I did notice sitting still my AIT did rise up a few degrees but as soon as I got going again it came back down fairly quick . My AIT ran 1 to 2 degrees lower than the outside temperature, I’m hoping that’s what’s needed. My RS3 has the Max Cooling system so I have extra radiators and extra coolers for the Super Charger . Brother thanks for your video on comparing types of super chargers . 👍
Having the Whipple for a year now on my 10R80 I feel there is a sweet spot for usable power. I'm only 630WHP (done suspension, drive train mods you name it) but with a great tyre say a drag radial you can floor it at 40 with good traction and get to 130 very quickly. Anymore HP and you fight wheelspin and on the street will be slower. This is where your ESS is perfect for the street because you can floor it from 20MPH I'd say on a good tyre and have traction. Would love to see a 40 to 100 roll between your Mach1 and Whippled manual Mach 1 with say 650WHP to see the difference. Not worth doing it against a 10R80 one from 50 and up as sorry the TSV blower A10 set up will win. Nevertheless, your Mach 1 is beautiful build mate.
Great video! I've done my research on both twin screw and centrifugal, different brands of each. I've settled on the ESS G3 with the larger intercooler, 120mm pully, for my 2015 limited edition. I only have 92 octane fuel available here on the Big Island of Hawaii. I just need to pull the trigger.
Dial your Whipple stang to no more than 650WHP on the street and with a great tyre (nitto555r2 or even fresh r888r) it will hook great from 40mph. The feeling you get when a tsv blown 10R80 Gt hooks on the hit is bloody exhilarating!
Just like you said, for a street car centrifugal setup is the way to go so your not blowing the tires off at every light. I’d love to experience a root style, but just not as my weekend car! Love the content I’m fairly new to this channel 👍🏽
Twin centri driver here. Even with close to 2000hp the car is a drivers car on the street. With the blowers on a crank drive in front of the engine In fresh air the cool down time is almost instant. Fir higher power level cars that are still street friendly you can beat a large crank driven centri or a pair of smaller centris. 😎
this confirms what I thought. the centrifugal is more drive able on the street. I was already looking at these kits and I am glad you are doing these videos.
Definitely glad I was able go find this video! Got a 23 Mach 1 non HP don't track the car but plenty of spirited driving on the highway, definitely thing my mind is made with and gonna go with the ESS kit
The whipple is like a hybrid of the roots and centrifugal blowers. it will build boost linearly aswell but has a little more torque than a centrifugal blower but not as much as the roots. Ultimately the centrifugal blowers are nice and great, but require high rpm to be at peak boost, that means the full power doesnt come on until your at the top of the rpm range. For drag racing unless you have a car that lives at the top 10-15% of the rpm range the whole pass you wont see low low times. you might see decent mph, but you wont be chasing time since time is dependent on the first 330' usually at high hp. Like you said the roots or whipple might have more power down low and get better et but you will be fighting traction. The centri is a favorite of mine for someone that wants boost and the sounds but doesnt care as much about times at the track or racing all the time.
You got that a little backwards lol. The roots is a more simple design of the Whipple. The Whipple will make just as much Low end torque as the roots if not more then the roots. And can match the high rpm power of a centrifugal. But weight and heat are disadvantage of the roots and Whipple vs a centrifugal. Think of the Whipple as an improved version of a roots.
@Evan Bozajian no it won't you are sorely misinformed. The Whipple absolutely will not hit as hard as a tvs on the hit and it won't make the torque either everything else equal same power levels. The tvs makes a good bit more torque not just because of the size being better suited for the engine but the design of the tvs itself the twist on the rotors just makes it hit hard on the initial punch and they make killer power. The odin can make just as much power as a 3 liter Whipple too on anything short of a 4 digit hp max effort e85 build even then it could compete nicely with the Whipple on making peak power but I think the Whipple would edge it out on that particular setup. On a stock motor build especially one that is on pump gas the tvs is just the better choice imo. You can easily use it in a 4 digit hp build too don't get it twisted. There are alot of misconceptions about the tvs. People think they only do better on the hit because of their size but that isn't all of it the twist on the rotors the way the thing is designed just makes them whip up quick and they're known to be nasty on the hit. Better study up.
@Evan Bozajian improved version of the roots? You're nuts this isn't an m112 on an 03 cobra the modern tvs especially the vmp versions are very efficient powerhouses that can easily hang with or beat the larger twin screw blowers. Lbs for lbs the tvs owns. You're stuck in 2003.
In my manual I’d rather the power kick in just a little later like you said so I don’t have to fight the power and can stay in it. I don’t want to have to working about doing an3-4 shift then having to let out out of the time because I can’t keep traction
Manual all day for Centris! You cant beat the price and quality of ESS. Power is there regardless of choice. Lastly you can't deny how the centri sounds over the Root. ESS for the win. G3, best choice I could have ever made.
Centri just makes noises idling while tvs don't but under wide open throttle it's debatable and depends on what you like but my gen3r sounds nasty under boost on my 07 gt500 like it's unleashing the gates of hell.
@@midnight347 no they also sound like jet approaching. Not to mention the 10lb BOV. Just listen to a few videos on my channel. Turbo and Centris will always sound better than root or screw.
Good video. Gave me some things to think about with my z06. I was leaning towards the top mount roots, i like instant torque but stock it already has traction issues with 295s out back on the top end. Adding to the bottom/mid would make it a handful fighting traction like you said. Nearly all of the blown z06s i've seen were centrifugal.
Thanks for the video man , u are really directing my mind into this ESS supercharger. Was planning on going Vortech or Whipple but for the price i think this ESS G3 is my best option
For the cost to features and benefits of the ESS I think it’s not a bad choice. Let brevin at brevin@esstuning.com know I sent you for the special ZANDER13 deal for the hook up
Great video and breakdown. I previously had a mustang with a vortech aftercooled kit and loved it. Intake temps stayed cool and I had the ability to drop ice in the water tank and really cool it off. I want to get your thoughts for an F150 application and towing. Between a VMP Loki kit and Procharger. Truck has just over 100k miles. Like the centri route due to the ease on the drivetrain in how the power comes in but won’t be too useful down low but still better than stock. The heat I imagine would also be difference in longer tows between the 2. I’m torn hahaha!
Great video I’m ready to pull,the trigger on one or the other. I daily drive and love tracking my GT350 and keep going back and forth on which way to go
I got the ESS kit for my 2020 GT350. G3 blower, 120 pulley, ID1050xds, Vortech Dual BAPs, G3 intercooler, Synchro quiet gears. All-in $8,150. I have Brevin from ESS installing this for me. Stainless Works catted LTH, Boundary Billet OPG & CS, Flex Fuel Sensor, and 6510 NGK spark plugs. Let's see what I get, I'll post when It's done. Should be by end of Nov 2024. I wonder if I need a larger radiator? Like one of those Hi-Flow radiators from Adler. -Thanks!
I have and love one no one talks about but I’ve beat everything with it my 3.6 KenneBell polished. Looks amazing sounds amazing at idle in boost and throws the boost to it.
A 3.6 is way too big for a 5.0. The powerband probably feels like a centri it's probably lazy as hell. Is that the only blower you ever had? Ever drove a nicely set up tvs car? You'd be surprised how badass your car could be on the street with an odin.
Great video brother! I’m also on the fence about which route to go on my 19 GT. I’ve had a Kenne Bell 04 Cobra and a 09 GT500. They definitely had that punch you the face instant power. They could also be quite the handful on street tires. But now that my knees are shot and I’m very happy with the 10spd. I’m really struggling with what direction to go. Anyway great video. Keep the shiny side up brother. God bless.
Centri doesn’t hurt you from a dig if you have a converter. I’ve had all kinds of boost & I still prefer a centri blower. As far as torque it’s a myth that PD blowers make more torque because they don’t. The torque just comes in sooner. I currently have a twin turbo setup but nothing sounds as good as a centri setup!
Really awesome topic Bud, I think like you, depends on what is prefered, but as far a Coyote motor a centrifugal blowers are for sure more bang for your buck but better to keep the car under control better, and the heat soak problems as well. But as far a GT350 with voodo, with less bottom end torque than a coyote, i would go with a roots/whipple type supercharger. A great video bud.
Agreed. For the GT350 we need more bottom end so Whipple or other PD blower. IMHO, for a daily (especially GT350), a PD blower will be much more useful for stop light wars. In most traffic encounters, you don't have time to wait for boost to come on. I definitely do not go to the drag strip. My GT350 might see the track once.
@@p1jrevely odin is the best option it can make about as much power as a 3 liter Whipple on anything less than a full max effort e85 setup and even then it wound hang pretty good with the Whipple but the tvs is even more snappy down low not only because of the size but the design of the tvs the twist on the rotors makes them nasty on the hit and they make badass torque so if snappy down low and torque is what you're wanting the odin is it. The modern tvs blowers are just badass.
Great vid, thanks for info, i wonder what the resale value of the different blowers would be, and whether they vary significantly? Especially if you find the setup doesn't work for you or you change from street to track or visa versa.
Honestly I think it depends if you have a push rod V8 versus a dual overhead cam V8 I really think the ls platform or the Gen 5 LT platform does really well with a pro charger style supercharger because they make so much more low end naturally aspirated. Having a dual overhead cam engine makes a lot less torque but way more peak power if it were me I would have a twin screw style for a 5.0 Coyote engine and do ProCharger style on a pushrod V8 that's just my opinion either that or change the rear end gears in a manual coyote I know with my friends coyote he had to do 373 gears just to make it get out of the hole better
@@s5filty my friend Rob who has a 5.0 was naturally aspirated. He did 373s because the coyote has no low end. The rear gears gave him the low end. But he wasn't boosted. If boosted I agree 3.45 gears or less especially if it's a top mount supercharger.
@@s5filty I heard the ESS is great those Vortech style (centrifugal blowers) work well. But they don't make torque down low like a positive displacement blower. Believe it or not my car loved a rear gears upgrade (373) with a procharger and stall converter. The ESS still has boost quickly but builds with the RPM vs the Roots style. It's definitely easier to have traction down low with the ESS. But it's violent as hell up top. That's what scared me with my Procharger Build. Every time I shifted the 6 speed it just kept pulling and pulling lol!
Great video, I am looking into getting my first mustang. Of course I am going to modify it. That was one of the reasons I am leaning towards the mustang versus the challenger. I was wondering what route to take on superchargers and other performance parts. Thanks for the information.
Owned both for me centrifugal if you’re a street guy. Don’t get caught up in numbers none of these cars have issues breaking tires loose! So take that power later in the rpm it’s so fun. Just when you think it’s over you’re out ! Gone 🚗🌬
Thank you for that genuine response! I hope this isn't a turnoff but you sound like Rand Paul sometimes lol. Back on topic, I am on the fences between a Mach 1 or older GT500.
Zander, I have a 6 speed Mach 1 on order. I know you love the ESS as it’s your first centri, but I’m torn between this or a whipple because I also like the power down low from a whipple. But this car will be daily driven so I like the drivability of the ESS and like how power is linear from a centri setup. I think I’m leaning towards a centri so I can keep all the engine parts that make a Mach 1 a Mach 1. If you were to make a suggestion for a manual, 6 speed Mach 1, would you go centri again? And if so, ESS or procharger? I should also mention it will be driven at 5,280ft elevation, if that makes any difference
If you like power down low go odin. The tvs hits harder than a twin screw by design and the size of the blower also helps it hit better at the bottom and it can make just as much power as the 3 liter Whipple on anything short of a 4 digit hp max effort e85 build spinning it hard even then it could keep up with the Whipple pretty nicely on performance.
If you can keep the rpm’s up with like a ten speed and the price you just can’t beat it and a simple $1275 Sai Ali fuel system with no cats and you could make 850-900 rwhp safely
A PD blower is absolutely more fun on the streets. People complaining about breaking tires loose need to learn to drive and get better tires. And its 2023, get a good heat exchanger with fans and youll stay cool under boost, and "recovery" is instantaneous as soon as you get out of boost
I have a 19 stock gt manual and I’m thinking of going with the standard 62mm hellion kit. Based from they’re video with the dyno sheet I don’t see much if any turbo lag. They hit 600 rwhp @round 5k rpm and peak @ 689 rwhp @ 6,400 rpm @ a price of 7,400. How does the centrifugal chargers compare? And the turbos mount underneath so it looked 100% stock under the hood.
IMHO Advantage of the centri is because boost is a function of rpm where positive displacement boost is instant. For a street car I have always preferred a centri. Granted my last supercharged car was a fox but that car made so much low end torque a positive displacement blower would not have been as fast…
I mean the tvs is gonna make boost there too it just makes it lower as well it's not like it's just gonna make boost then fall off suddenly at 4000 rpm.
I think as far as automatic transmissions, roots style is more beneficial. Manual guys, centrifugal is the way to go because you’re in control completely.
@@Zander13Productions thank you brother, same to you! Great to see a fellow veteran prospering man, if you’re ever out in Texas I’d love to see the car and if my projects done maybe we can run a couple.
I would supercharge, but I don't need the debt and all the expenses that comes with it. $7K-10K isn't money I have laying around. Not to mention putting all that boost through any engine will make it wear out sooner. How fast do I really need to go? I don't "really" race, (not saying I haven't) but my point stands. It would be different if I owned the car outright. At 44K/yr FBO E85 is the best I can do...
ESS with 120 pulley, 2020 GT500 injectors, BAP is all you need. Hit up Ken at HPR hprautomotive.com/pages/contact and tell him I sent you 🤘 I would also invest in some BMR suspension parts. You can use code zander7 to save a ton of money www.bmrsuspension.com
By the time your centrifugal is getting into boost my Roush dud would been 3 cars ahead by then. But with the 2022 I'll be going ESS just for the jet noises lol.
Nope, these kits start making decent boost at 3500 rpm, who starts a race from less than that? I've cut 1.49 60ft on my ess kit with stock converter so they do decent out of the hole also.
If the centri is big enough it’ll have the same torque down low and 2 to 3 times the power up top. Think F4 Procharger on a Proline Hemi. 3500ho up top, at least 700hp off idle.
I'm looking at the ESS2 I have a 16 fbo with a Cj. What do you think will be my issues with the cj? I'm worried about upper rpm since the cj turns so hi. My car is mani as well w/3.73's
That works great so does methanol. The modern tvs is very efficient and at the boost levels coyotes see it won't see significant heat soak with a proper cooling system for the blower. Vmp triple pass. Fans are optional not mandatory. If you don't live at the drag strip or have a ton of stop and go driving the fans aren't needed. It's less weight and the cooling is actually better without them above 15 mph. I didn't opt for the fans because I don't need them. What's more important is having a good intercooler pump and a larger coolant tank for the blower. Ice tank works great for the track as well.
I heard the centrifugal blower is easier on the engine components. That is because you're not putting so much stress on the engine at low down rpms. I'm not an expert, just what I heard
I love my Mach 1, but I would definitely enjoy a little more power. My concern is track day use. Right now, I can run the car in Florida heat, all day long, without issue. I have friends with boosted cars and it always turns into some science project for heat management. You talked about doing multiple passes/pulls, but on a road course it is a totally different beast. We're not talking about 12 second pulls, but 20 minutes. Not all of that is on throttle, but a bulk of it is. Do you have any plans on taking it to a track, particularly in the summer, to do a real test?
do you now what engine coolant temp, oil temps & IAT when the Mach1 engine starts to pull timing? (IE start to lose power) Im really curious if ESS Mach1 will do on a 30min HPDE session?
If I'm understanding this correctly , the centrifugal has less weight, less heat and is more drivetrain friendly with boost coming on later. This setup is more drivable... Also , this setup should effect gas mileage a little less. I can live with that. Congrats once again, Zander !
Yes absolutely correct in all that. 100000%
Not to mention the other benefit of it, the sound! I would go this route myself hands down.
This!
Definitely the best practices set up for daily manual driver type. This is exactly what I been looking for.
You will save on tyres too!
Ok so I have a 700whp whipple 2020 gt. My buddy has 670 ess 2019. We swapped keys and enjoyed each other's cars as a breath of fresh air. He like the hit of the whipple I likes the surprise up top at 6000rpm and up. Can't go wrong with either in my opinion
Personally I feel the supercharger you selected was a excellent choice for your Mach 1 keeping under the hood closer to it's stock appearance. Installation appeared much earlier than adding a screw style blower or turbos. If required, it would be much easier putting the car back to stock. A great power adder for a substantial horsepower gain at thousands less than a Hellion kit or a Whipple style twin screw blower. From what I've seen so far. I'm a fan of your selection.
100% yes. This being my first centri car. I love it
Battle, I absolutely love my procharger on my 2019 10 speed automatic. From a 40-50 roll it is hard, very hard to run me down. I done a lot of research before I went with the procharger and like you said, with the rooted superchargers you're fighting the car and while racing not having to fight the car takes 1 less risky equation out of the race
This!
The thing about your supercharger is that they like to put the air intake above the exhaust in front of the firewall.
Not sure if they're still doing that but it was the stupidest thing I have ever seen.
I bought a centri last November for my 2018 GT, no regrets. Car runs 9.4x - 9.9x depending on pulley size. I love it.
How whp are you pushing and is your motor built or trans?
I have a 2016 centrifugal, 2018 TVS and a 2015 twin turbo. Love them all.
Tons of fun. Definitely nice to have all the variety you have 😉💪
I like power up top. The Mustang doesn't need power down low, it needs GRIP. When it gets grip, and you have the power up top, it's Amazing and never stops pulling.
1000%
I don't see any turbo comments, well here is one, TT FTW :)
They both have their positives and negatives just depends on when you want your boost to come in and weight.
I have a Roush Supercharger than is twin screw and I love it because gave me instant torque at low RPM. Thank you for the video.
This was a big help thank you! Ugh I hate that it sounds like centrifugal sounds like what I want because the twin screw has such a prettier/classic look under the hood.
Great info and a very good presentation! I used to think a Whipple style was what I wanted if I ever supercharge, based on the appearance, but the sound of the ESS centrifugal is so sweet. And it is certainly easier to install.
Almost 40k subscribers, and 10 million views! That's really great Alex!
Both are such great blowers. It’s always hard to choose 😉 I’ve always like the top mount blowers but this centri is so fun. I still like both types though for different reasons
I fell in love with the ess setup. It seems like a daily driver’s option
I really am in love with it honestly. Zero regrets 100%
@Zander13 ok, sorry what is a ess supercharger? Is that a type of procharger or?
@@hotrodlincoln7186 it’s similar to pro charger, vortex, and Paxton.
@Terran the Black is it better and di they make them for the 4.6 2v ?
@@hotrodlincoln7186 it’s for the coyotes engines. Ess basically a better build due to its simplicity compared to the others.
So I have never had a boosted car w that being said w everything I've looked up and researched I personally would go w ess or procharger. Mainly for drivability and it won't kill my launch at the dragstrip. So hopefully when the budget has a spot in it centrifugal is the way I'll go. Good video bud!
I own a 2016 f150 with the 2.3 Roush TVs and I also own a currently stock 2018 A10 GT Mustang that I am planning to do the ESS on. I couldn't agree more with your points about the TVs absolutely kicking in low and strong, it was probably a mistake on the truck and I'm now thinking an ESS would make a pretty phenomenal kit for the F-150 which is already super light in the ass end and struggles with traction majorly.
I think you did a great job of clearifying it down to "where do you want your boost". I think it means a lot that you have experienced both types of "blowers". The only problem I have with the centrifugal supercharger, with straight cut gears, is the box of rocks sound. On the other hand I do like the wine of the twin screw.
That's why I would never go with just the straight cut gears. I'd always upgrade them.
@@hotrodlincoln7186 I know huh. IMO it's just an annoying sound.
@Mach Daddy I agree I don't have any sets up yet. But, I heard others and yea, no thanks
Sounds way better than the lame ass whine…
@@brandon263 Opinions vary.
I went with a centrifugal and upgraded it with an air-water intercooler.
Centri = higher hp at higher rpms
Roots = higher hp at lower rpms
At what rpms do you do you want your hp?
Love my centrifugal blowers … like the linear build of power, recovery of AIT, and that whistle 😉 … have had several root style as well and with the Florida heat … significant cool down time
It also very much depends on the kind of blower you're running and how efficient it is and how hard you're spinning it and what if any cooling system upgrades you have. The 2650 tvs is very efficient you can make heat soak not much of an issue with the proper cooling upgrades.
@@midnight347 the issue is that if you already dropping 8-10k on one of those top mount blowers it should already come with a great efficiently cooling supply. That's why the centri is a great bang for the buck when you're roll racing the centri is in its sweet spot and if the same cars run twice or three times the centri car will put perform the top mount blowers setups because of heat soak
I like what you’ve installed on your Mach 1. I haven’t had much experience with a forced induction engine , a couple of turbo charged cars that were stock . I do have a 20 RS3 now and I’m loving it . It’s stock and for me that’s perfect. Yes the kick is very quick as you stated immediately. Traction control helps out with traction. We went on a 4 hour ride last Sunday with 24 other Mustangs. I did notice sitting still my AIT did rise up a few degrees but as soon as I got going again it came back down fairly quick . My AIT ran 1 to 2 degrees lower than the outside temperature, I’m hoping that’s what’s needed. My RS3 has the Max Cooling system so I have extra radiators and extra coolers for the Super Charger . Brother thanks for your video on comparing types of super chargers . 👍
🙏🙏🙏 yea. The RS3 package you got is very good. Especially with all the extra cooling. Tons of fun
Key point to elaborate the centrifugal and manual combo is gonna pull harder up top also with less drivetrain loss
Having the Whipple for a year now on my 10R80 I feel there is a sweet spot for usable power. I'm only 630WHP (done suspension, drive train mods you name it) but with a great tyre say a drag radial you can floor it at 40 with good traction and get to 130 very quickly. Anymore HP and you fight wheelspin and on the street will be slower. This is where your ESS is perfect for the street because you can floor it from 20MPH I'd say on a good tyre and have traction. Would love to see a 40 to 100 roll between your Mach1 and Whippled manual Mach 1 with say 650WHP to see the difference. Not worth doing it against a 10R80 one from 50 and up as sorry the TSV blower A10 set up will win.
Nevertheless, your Mach 1 is beautiful build mate.
Centrifugal and the 10r80 makes awesome combo. Think you’d be surprised ESS vs tvs both with 10r80.
@@bradmo9281 love to see these direct comparisons on youtube.
@@CoyoteAUS my car has ran 4.8 60-130 with ess low boost on e30. With a fuel system e85 and more boost it would be nasty.
@@bradmo9281 wow 4.8 is bloody quick how much whp ?
@@CoyoteAUS never dyno , I’m running the 115mm pulley so about 11psi.
Great video! I've done my research on both twin screw and centrifugal, different brands of each. I've settled on the ESS G3 with the larger intercooler, 120mm pully, for my 2015 limited edition. I only have 92 octane fuel available here on the Big Island of Hawaii. I just need to pull the trigger.
Well ? Did you end up getting the ESS kit?
@coastalparasail Still saving up for it. Hopefully in a couple months.
My Whipple Stage 2 for my 21 Mach 1 is taking 12-16 weeks to produce. Can’t wait! Your set up is great bro!
Thanks. That whipple wait time though 😢
Dial your Whipple stang to no more than 650WHP on the street and with a great tyre (nitto555r2 or even fresh r888r) it will hook great from 40mph. The feeling you get when a tsv blown 10R80 Gt hooks on the hit is bloody exhilarating!
Just like you said, for a street car centrifugal setup is the way to go so your not blowing the tires off at every light. I’d love to experience a root style, but just not as my weekend car!
Love the content I’m fairly new to this channel 👍🏽
It's called fat drag radials and suspension mods. A tvs that hooks 🪝 is a feeling like none other.
Twin centri driver here. Even with close to 2000hp the car is a drivers car on the street. With the blowers on a crank drive in front of the engine In fresh air the cool down time is almost instant. Fir higher power level cars that are still street friendly you can beat a large crank driven centri or a pair of smaller centris. 😎
this confirms what I thought. the centrifugal is more drive able on the street. I was already looking at these kits and I am glad you are doing these videos.
🙏🙏🙏
Definitely glad I was able go find this video! Got a 23 Mach 1 non HP don't track the car but plenty of spirited driving on the highway, definitely thing my mind is made with and gonna go with the ESS kit
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The whipple is like a hybrid of the roots and centrifugal blowers. it will build boost linearly aswell but has a little more torque than a centrifugal blower but not as much as the roots. Ultimately the centrifugal blowers are nice and great, but require high rpm to be at peak boost, that means the full power doesnt come on until your at the top of the rpm range. For drag racing unless you have a car that lives at the top 10-15% of the rpm range the whole pass you wont see low low times. you might see decent mph, but you wont be chasing time since time is dependent on the first 330' usually at high hp. Like you said the roots or whipple might have more power down low and get better et but you will be fighting traction. The centri is a favorite of mine for someone that wants boost and the sounds but doesnt care as much about times at the track or racing all the time.
You got that a little backwards lol. The roots is a more simple design of the Whipple. The Whipple will make just as much Low end torque as the roots if not more then the roots. And can match the high rpm power of a centrifugal. But weight and heat are disadvantage of the roots and Whipple vs a centrifugal. Think of the Whipple as an improved version of a roots.
@Evan Bozajian no it won't you are sorely misinformed. The Whipple absolutely will not hit as hard as a tvs on the hit and it won't make the torque either everything else equal same power levels. The tvs makes a good bit more torque not just because of the size being better suited for the engine but the design of the tvs itself the twist on the rotors just makes it hit hard on the initial punch and they make killer power. The odin can make just as much power as a 3 liter Whipple too on anything short of a 4 digit hp max effort e85 build even then it could compete nicely with the Whipple on making peak power but I think the Whipple would edge it out on that particular setup. On a stock motor build especially one that is on pump gas the tvs is just the better choice imo. You can easily use it in a 4 digit hp build too don't get it twisted.
There are alot of misconceptions about the tvs. People think they only do better on the hit because of their size but that isn't all of it the twist on the rotors the way the thing is designed just makes them whip up quick and they're known to be nasty on the hit. Better study up.
@Evan Bozajian improved version of the roots? You're nuts this isn't an m112 on an 03 cobra the modern tvs especially the vmp versions are very efficient powerhouses that can easily hang with or beat the larger twin screw blowers. Lbs for lbs the tvs owns. You're stuck in 2003.
In my manual I’d rather the power kick in just a little later like you said so I don’t have to fight the power and can stay in it. I don’t want to have to working about doing an3-4 shift then having to let out out of the time because I can’t keep traction
Manual all day for Centris! You cant beat the price and quality of ESS. Power is there regardless of choice. Lastly you can't deny how the centri sounds over the Root. ESS for the win. G3, best choice I could have ever made.
Centri just makes noises idling while tvs don't but under wide open throttle it's debatable and depends on what you like but my gen3r sounds nasty under boost on my 07 gt500 like it's unleashing the gates of hell.
@@midnight347 no they also sound like jet approaching. Not to mention the 10lb BOV. Just listen to a few videos on my channel. Turbo and Centris will always sound better than root or screw.
Good video. Gave me some things to think about with my z06. I was leaning towards the top mount roots, i like instant torque but stock it already has traction issues with 295s out back on the top end. Adding to the bottom/mid would make it a handful fighting traction like you said. Nearly all of the blown z06s i've seen were centrifugal.
Root/screw means boost after the throttle blade, centrifugal and turbo means boost before the throttle blade.
Thanks for the video man , u are really directing my mind into this ESS supercharger. Was planning on going Vortech or Whipple but for the price i think this ESS G3 is my best option
For the cost to features and benefits of the ESS I think it’s not a bad choice. Let brevin at brevin@esstuning.com know I sent you for the special ZANDER13 deal for the hook up
Great video and breakdown. I previously had a mustang with a vortech aftercooled kit and loved it. Intake temps stayed cool and I had the ability to drop ice in the water tank and really cool it off. I want to get your thoughts for an F150 application and towing. Between a VMP Loki kit and Procharger. Truck has just over 100k miles. Like the centri route due to the ease on the drivetrain in how the power comes in but won’t be too useful down low but still better than stock. The heat I imagine would also be difference in longer tows between the 2. I’m torn hahaha!
Great video I’m ready to pull,the trigger on one or the other. I daily drive and love tracking my GT350 and keep going back and forth on which way to go
Centri is best of both worlds
I got the ESS kit for my 2020 GT350. G3 blower, 120 pulley, ID1050xds, Vortech Dual BAPs, G3 intercooler, Synchro quiet gears. All-in $8,150. I have Brevin from ESS installing this for me. Stainless Works catted LTH, Boundary Billet OPG & CS, Flex Fuel Sensor, and 6510 NGK spark plugs. Let's see what I get, I'll post when It's done. Should be by end of Nov 2024.
I wonder if I need a larger radiator? Like one of those Hi-Flow radiators from Adler. -Thanks!
I have and love one no one talks about but I’ve beat everything with it my 3.6 KenneBell polished. Looks amazing sounds amazing at idle in boost and throws the boost to it.
A 3.6 is way too big for a 5.0. The powerband probably feels like a centri it's probably lazy as hell. Is that the only blower you ever had? Ever drove a nicely set up tvs car? You'd be surprised how badass your car could be on the street with an odin.
Using your paddle shifters with a centri makes a world of difference. I have a Vortech on my 16 putting 639 to the wheels.
Great video brother! I’m also on the fence about which route to go on my 19 GT. I’ve had a Kenne Bell 04 Cobra and a 09 GT500. They definitely had that punch you the face instant power. They could also be quite the handful on street tires. But now that my knees are shot and I’m very happy with the 10spd. I’m really struggling with what direction to go. Anyway great video. Keep the shiny side up brother. God bless.
If you can, drive a 10speed with a centri, it just steadily builds power without blowing the tires down low. It's a rocket.
Odin. Thank me later. It's just a badass blower and as far as traction get good fat drag radials.
Centri doesn’t hurt you from a dig if you have a converter. I’ve had all kinds of boost & I still prefer a centri blower. As far as torque it’s a myth that PD blowers make more torque because they don’t. The torque just comes in sooner. I currently have a twin turbo setup but nothing sounds as good as a centri setup!
Very true. I should have talked about aftermarket converters. That definitely changes the game for sure
@@Zander13Productions yep, you leave on boost with a converter. Puts you right where you need to be.
@Zander13Productions what type of converters are you talking about? Newbie here😅
Centrifugal supercharger converter@@Zander13Productions
Really awesome topic Bud, I think like you, depends on what is prefered, but as far a Coyote motor a centrifugal blowers are for sure more bang for your buck but better to keep the car under
control better, and the heat soak problems as well. But as far a GT350 with voodo, with less bottom end torque than a coyote, i would go with a roots/whipple type supercharger. A great video bud.
Thanks 🙏
Agreed. For the GT350 we need more bottom end so Whipple or other PD blower. IMHO, for a daily (especially GT350), a PD blower will be much more useful for stop light wars. In most traffic encounters, you don't have time to wait for boost to come on. I definitely do not go to the drag strip. My GT350 might see the track once.
@@p1jrevely odin is the best option it can make about as much power as a 3 liter Whipple on anything less than a full max effort e85 setup and even then it wound hang pretty good with the Whipple but the tvs is even more snappy down low not only because of the size but the design of the tvs the twist on the rotors makes them nasty on the hit and they make badass torque so if snappy down low and torque is what you're wanting the odin is it. The modern tvs blowers are just badass.
Great vid, thanks for info, i wonder what the resale value of the different blowers would be, and whether they vary significantly? Especially if you find the setup doesn't work for you or you change from street to track or visa versa.
Honestly I think it depends if you have a push rod V8 versus a dual overhead cam V8 I really think the ls platform or the Gen 5 LT platform does really well with a pro charger style supercharger because they make so much more low end naturally aspirated. Having a dual overhead cam engine makes a lot less torque but way more peak power if it were me I would have a twin screw style for a 5.0 Coyote engine and do ProCharger style on a pushrod V8 that's just my opinion either that or change the rear end gears in a manual coyote I know with my friends coyote he had to do 373 gears just to make it get out of the hole better
lot of boosted guys actually go down on the gearing since the 3.73 doesn’t work
@@s5filty my friend Rob who has a 5.0 was naturally aspirated. He did 373s because the coyote has no low end. The rear gears gave him the low end. But he wasn't boosted. If boosted I agree 3.45 gears or less especially if it's a top mount supercharger.
@@StickShiftMuscle I have 3.73s on my pp1 rn but once I go ess, i’m def goin down on the gear ratio
@@s5filty I heard the ESS is great those Vortech style (centrifugal blowers) work well. But they don't make torque down low like a positive displacement blower. Believe it or not my car loved a rear gears upgrade (373) with a procharger and stall converter. The ESS still has boost quickly but builds with the RPM vs the Roots style. It's definitely easier to have traction down low with the ESS. But it's violent as hell up top. That's what scared me with my Procharger Build. Every time I shifted the 6 speed it just kept pulling and pulling lol!
Great video, I am looking into getting my first mustang. Of course I am going to modify it. That was one of the reasons I am leaning towards the mustang versus the challenger. I was wondering what route to take on superchargers and other performance parts. Thanks for the information.
Absolutely. Very welcome
Twin screw for life baby
2017 gt manual with the performance pack. Gonna go ess g3x!!! Thanks for the insight
email ken@hprautomotive.com and ask for zander13 discount. saves you a bunch of money
I think ESS is the way to go..You can keep your factory strut tower brace ect.. Blower you have to change things for lower end power
Ess is a blower too lol. People don't get that centris are just a different type of supercharger.
Owned both for me centrifugal if you’re a street guy. Don’t get caught up in numbers none of these cars have issues breaking tires loose! So take that power later in the rpm it’s so fun. Just when you think it’s over you’re out ! Gone 🚗🌬
Thank you for that genuine response! I hope this isn't a turnoff but you sound like Rand Paul sometimes lol. Back on topic, I am on the fences between a Mach 1 or older GT500.
Thank you for doing this video ! It has helped me phenomenally !
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👍 great vid brother! Everything you mentioned is exactly why I went with a centri..
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Love your car. Beautiful MACH 1 👍
Great info keep the content coming
Zander, I have a 6 speed Mach 1 on order. I know you love the ESS as it’s your first centri, but I’m torn between this or a whipple because I also like the power down low from a whipple. But this car will be daily driven so I like the drivability of the ESS and like how power is linear from a centri setup. I think I’m leaning towards a centri so I can keep all the engine parts that make a Mach 1 a Mach 1. If you were to make a suggestion for a manual, 6 speed Mach 1, would you go centri again? And if so, ESS or procharger? I should also mention it will be driven at 5,280ft elevation, if that makes any difference
Did you ever decide? I'm currently torn between the ess and Whipple kit
If you like power down low go odin. The tvs hits harder than a twin screw by design and the size of the blower also helps it hit better at the bottom and it can make just as much power as the 3 liter Whipple on anything short of a 4 digit hp max effort e85 build spinning it hard even then it could keep up with the Whipple pretty nicely on performance.
As always, great video with tons of useful info👍🏼
🙏🙏🙏
Great video and extremely helpful, and choosing the right system for my car. God bless
Thanks. God bless
If you can keep the rpm’s up with like a ten speed and the price you just can’t beat it and a simple $1275 Sai Ali fuel system with no cats and you could make 850-900 rwhp safely
A PD blower is absolutely more fun on the streets. People complaining about breaking tires loose need to learn to drive and get better tires. And its 2023, get a good heat exchanger with fans and youll stay cool under boost, and "recovery" is instantaneous as soon as you get out of boost
I’m always onboard for TVS
METH is your friend when it comes to IAT's
Ayyyy, glad you made a video on this.
😉💪
This is gonna be interesting in how they fit this to the Gen 4 Coyote!
Centrifugal all the way for me. My 19' gt 6-speed is a daily driver for me lol. Can drive around town with almost no boost and the rippp the highways
I have a 19 stock gt manual and I’m thinking of going with the standard 62mm hellion kit. Based from they’re video with the dyno sheet I don’t see much if any turbo lag. They hit 600 rwhp @round 5k rpm and peak @ 689 rwhp @ 6,400 rpm @ a price of 7,400. How does the centrifugal chargers compare? And the turbos mount underneath so it looked 100% stock under the hood.
My g3x will be here next week. It’s going on my 18 a10 with fic 1440s and fore triple pump. Shooting for 8s
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Wow amazing explanation for someone new like me
I’m going with the ess on my car and I’m keeping the nitrous. Talked to Ken 😎
That will be a sick setup. For good pricing on the ESS kit. Let brevin know I sent you for a deal at brevin@esstuning.com 💪
Its a real nice setup bro👍🏼
Thanks
IMHO Advantage of the centri is because boost is a function of rpm where positive displacement boost is instant. For a street car I have always preferred a centri. Granted my last supercharged car was a fox but that car made so much low end torque a positive displacement blower would not have been as fast…
would you recommend a Boundary blue printed oil pump and crank sprocket in a N/A gen 3 turning 7800 rpm?
Yes 100%. Never a bad idea especially spinning the engine that hard
Where can I get the Mach 1 airbag cover for steering wheel boss?
I love postive displacement supercharges lol
I prefer the boost between 5.2-7.2 rpm’s since I have my LC set at 4.2
I mean the tvs is gonna make boost there too it just makes it lower as well it's not like it's just gonna make boost then fall off suddenly at 4000 rpm.
I think as far as automatic transmissions, roots style is more beneficial. Manual guys, centrifugal is the way to go because you’re in control completely.
Agreed
@@Zander13Productions love the build man, just medboarded outta the Army so now I finally have time to build my Challenger!
@@alekivaz thanks for your service. I transitioned out in 2017.
@@Zander13Productions thank you brother, same to you! Great to see a fellow veteran prospering man, if you’re ever out in Texas I’d love to see the car and if my projects done maybe we can run a couple.
@@alekivaz 💪💪💪
I would supercharge, but I don't need the debt and all the expenses that comes with it. $7K-10K isn't money I have laying around. Not to mention putting all that boost through any engine will make it wear out sooner. How fast do I really need to go? I don't "really" race, (not saying I haven't) but my point stands. It would be different if I owned the car outright. At 44K/yr FBO E85 is the best I can do...
We need a 60-130 time
Which would you recommend for a automatic 07 gt mustang?
What did you have to upgrade to install the ESS if anything? I have a 2022 Mach 1 six speed that’s stock other than a double h-pipe.
ESS with 120 pulley, 2020 GT500 injectors, BAP is all you need. Hit up Ken at HPR hprautomotive.com/pages/contact and tell him I sent you 🤘 I would also invest in some BMR suspension parts. You can use code zander7 to save a ton of money www.bmrsuspension.com
@@Zander13Productions I’m all the way in California. Just trying to get an idea of what I need to do and a ball park figure of labor.
How is the system on. Long road trips? Does it over heat when traveling?
Love it. No over heating at all
I love that turbo woosh sound of ESS
So what would be better for the 10 speed auto GT? Btw it’s my daily
I’m concerned about iat’s. Whish you would have shown your iat vs ambient on your dash
By the time your centrifugal is getting into boost my Roush dud would been 3 cars ahead by then. But with the 2022 I'll be going ESS just for the jet noises lol.
Jet noises are sick 😁
Cap, nobody races under 3k rpm.
Nope, these kits start making decent boost at 3500 rpm, who starts a race from less than that? I've cut 1.49 60ft on my ess kit with stock converter so they do decent out of the hole also.
@@christophermorring9274 koo. I cut a 1.49 on 93 full interior too.
If the centri is big enough it’ll have the same torque down low and 2 to 3 times the power up top. Think F4 Procharger on a Proline Hemi. 3500ho up top, at least 700hp off idle.
Excellent video.
Thanks
Did you change out any other stock equipment? Oil pump gears, etc?
Definitely OPG/CS
I'm looking at the ESS2 I have a 16 fbo with a Cj. What do you think will be my issues with the cj? I'm worried about upper rpm since the cj turns so hi. My car is mani as well w/3.73's
How to do get higher numbers on torque? High as in 600+
With the heat soak or high IAT's what do you think about the killerchiller or interchiller to reduce that heat.
That works great so does methanol. The modern tvs is very efficient and at the boost levels coyotes see it won't see significant heat soak with a proper cooling system for the blower. Vmp triple pass. Fans are optional not mandatory. If you don't live at the drag strip or have a ton of stop and go driving the fans aren't needed. It's less weight and the cooling is actually better without them above 15 mph. I didn't opt for the fans because I don't need them. What's more important is having a good intercooler pump and a larger coolant tank for the blower. Ice tank works great for the track as well.
Good chat.
Can a centrifugal supercharger get you to 800whp
All day yes
Can you please site your source for heat soak information? If this is true I would like to learn more more details from the source.
I heard the centrifugal blower is easier on the engine components. That is because you're not putting so much stress on the engine at low down rpms.
I'm not an expert, just what I heard
Still pretty new to all this kinda stuff…would this setup work/function the same with a gen 2 manual?
Yes
I love my Mach 1, but I would definitely enjoy a little more power. My concern is track day use. Right now, I can run the car in Florida heat, all day long, without issue. I have friends with boosted cars and it always turns into some science project for heat management. You talked about doing multiple passes/pulls, but on a road course it is a totally different beast. We're not talking about 12 second pulls, but 20 minutes. Not all of that is on throttle, but a bulk of it is. Do you have any plans on taking it to a track, particularly in the summer, to do a real test?
Reische 170 thermostat.....
Fire 🔥
So only work well for manual mustang gt?
Auto or manual
Is the Whipple supercharger a twin screw type supercharger?
twin screw
Can I install the Ess g2 kit on a 2020 mustang bullitt. Has same intake as Mach one.
I never had a g2 kit or any mistakes on the Mach 1 🤔🤷♂️
do you now what engine coolant temp, oil temps & IAT when the Mach1 engine starts to pull timing? (IE start to lose power) Im really curious if ESS Mach1 will do on a 30min HPDE session?
I am curious as well bc I eventually want to track this car like it is too and don’t want heat issues
Is this setup legal in California ?