No, Black Metal Has NEVER Been 'Mainstream'

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  • Опубликовано: 21 дек 2024

Комментарии • 74

  • @TheMetalTempestYT
    @TheMetalTempestYT  Месяц назад +6

    I wanted to go into the growing concern of black metal getting into the mainstream, with popular creators and celebrities/musicians taking the aesthetic of black metal, alongside the over-the-top portrayals of black metal culture in things like Lords of Chaos. Let's talk about that! Be sure to let me know what you think down below!!!!!!! But for now, cheers, rock on, stay heavy and have yourselves a fantastic rest of your day or night, depending on when you see this!!!!!!! 🤘🤘🤘🤘🤘🤘🤘

    • @elCamaradaR
      @elCamaradaR Месяц назад

      Shitty argument, Shitty content

  • @IronSabbath666
    @IronSabbath666 Месяц назад +38

    Which is why I laughed when I watched Lords of Chaos and the film treated Mayhem like they were Motley Crue getting girls left and right

    • @briondeman5095
      @briondeman5095 Месяц назад +9

      Everytjing that happened in that movie is 100% true trust me i was the knife that varg stabbed with

    • @simonrodriguez930
      @simonrodriguez930 Месяц назад +1

      Varg having orgies with groupies is, as we all know, completely true to life and to his character

    • @IronSabbath666
      @IronSabbath666 Месяц назад

      @simonrodriguez930 Can't speak for Varg but Euronymous definitely had his fare share of orgies with knives I'll tell you that, it went and out of him multiple times

  • @Lemonadekoolaid
    @Lemonadekoolaid Месяц назад +32

    Venom and it’s consequences

    • @childlessdoggentleman746
      @childlessdoggentleman746 Месяц назад +6

      The creators of Black Metal thematically but not sonically, Venom knew they were crappy musicians. They tapped into the Satan Panic of the eighties as a way of finding a niche that could give them an audience without requiring major talent. The honor of the first black metal sonically, I give to Bathory although some credit Hellhammer.

    • @ChunkSchuldinga
      @ChunkSchuldinga Месяц назад +3

      ​@@childlessdoggentleman746
      Venom is the Black Sabbath to Bathory's Judas Priest.
      Early Venom isn't black metal proper, but it is blackened speed/traditional and strong precursor to neo-first wave bands like Midnight, Bewitcher, and The Gauntlet. I personally can't ignore the contributions of Venom when these artists exist to continue what they started before chickening out.
      I will agree, Bathory was the first to legitimize it as a genre, and solidified the sound that would influence second wave and by extention viking metal.

    • @childlessdoggentleman746
      @childlessdoggentleman746 Месяц назад

      @@ChunkSchuldinga I also fully acknowledge that Venom is a cornerstone of Black Metal history. Their largest contribution is their lyrical content. They also gave the genre its name with their second album "Black Metal." Their sound is quite distant from American Black Metal. I fully honor Venom as the grandfather of Black Metal. I even classify them as Black Metal (You could probably refer to them as Primordial Black). It's with Bathory that we got to the American Black Metal sound. I get the strange feeling we're arguing the same point from different angles.

  • @ChunkSchuldinga
    @ChunkSchuldinga Месяц назад +27

    I dunno, the fact Mayhem and Linkin Park are on the same poster for Sick New World screams pretty mainstream to me.

    • @TheMetalTempestYT
      @TheMetalTempestYT  Месяц назад +14

      but even then, nowadays some of the 'classics' like mayhem/emperor/immortal are known by more folks than ever, so you could argue even they aren't as "true kvlt" as some of the underground purists want it to be LMFAO

    • @ChunkSchuldinga
      @ChunkSchuldinga Месяц назад

      ​@@TheMetalTempestYTPlaying devil's advocate with semi-baseless Shapiro logic. The "All fax, no printer. Git rekt liberlol" cringe shitposting. Haven't even watched the video yet, I was heading to bed.
      But let's be real, as much as I enjoy Departure Chandelier or Pathway, they'll never be on a mainstream fest a la Aftershock or Louder Than Life, but definitely hold the possibility of being midway or on the lower end of Milwaukee Metal Fest, Full Terror Assault (RIP, based af American Metaldays/Tolminator) or Fire in the Mountains. The Xoomers will always take top bill because of their historical importance to the genre.

    • @ChunkSchuldinga
      @ChunkSchuldinga Месяц назад +2

      ​​@@TheMetalTempestYT
      Only commented silly baseless shit so I can get notifications to watch it later. Didn't watch the video yet. Was heading to bed at the time of commenting.
      But let's be real, as much as I enjoy Departure Chandelier or Pathway (even though these guys could fit in as a bridge between early Ulver and Deafheaven), they'll never be at a massive mainstream megafest a la Louder Than Life or Aftershock. Midway or on the lower end of a metal-focused fest, Milwaukee Metal Fest, Full Terror Assault (RIP, me and the bros will miss this camp), Fire in the Mountains? Yeah probably. It's probably for the best.
      Also, just to trigger purists
      Only first wave is real > Trve kvlt

  • @GVLSCH
    @GVLSCH Месяц назад +26

    this may be due to me being as invested as i am in the extreme metal scene but ive always felt BM was one of the more popular subgenres in the area of extreme music genres in the metal and punk areas. Like obviously its not gaining popularity outside the metal spaces but it feels very omnipresent in a way ive not really seen any other genre in the space be. Unlike most other extreme music genres, Black metals influence can be felt in almost every crevice of modern extreme metal.

    • @childlessdoggentleman746
      @childlessdoggentleman746 Месяц назад +7

      While I can agree with you overall, those dipping their toes into the Black Metal scene tend to veer away from the sparser versions. Burzum and Mayhem owes much of their popular fandom to the crimes they committed as opposed to their amazing sound. Don't get me wrong both groups deserve their accolades. Other Black metal groups of a lo-fi nature are not as likely to get the attention that the more exciting Black subgenres do. How many of the other extreme genres metal bands who try to borrow Black elements, go out to their woodshed with a tape deck to record their album.

    • @TheMetalTempestYT
      @TheMetalTempestYT  Месяц назад +3

      @@childlessdoggentleman746 Absolutely! That's what I tried to get at in this video. Black metal 'mainstream' bands vs. what most black metal fans see as "true black metal" are going to be two very, very different things regardless of how you cut it. And the vast majority of folks who want to see a bit of the genre just simply aren't going to dabble in the much heavier forms of it and more underground, raw stuff!

  • @Solifuga
    @Solifuga Месяц назад +15

    Black metal's origins and ideologies being-to start with-heavily anti-religious immediately stomp out any possibility of it becoming "mainstream", which I will take as a good thing. I do not mean to gatekeep black metal, nor do I ascertain black metal to be objectively better than mainstream music, but the magic of this genre is untouchable to those looking in from the outside and trying to mass-appeal it or clean it up. It will, thankfully, remain that way; its greatest strength in the larger metal scene is to fester beneath the surface and inspire anyone who is open or curious enough to understand or appreciate its messages and vibes. Though sometimes I just wish some black metal fans would get a life.

    • @childlessdoggentleman746
      @childlessdoggentleman746 Месяц назад +4

      This is even more true with Norwegian Black. The use of Norse Gods in their music is a literal finger to what the Norwegian youth considered a Norwegian Christian theocracy. Their music as much political as anti-Christian. They are angry at the Chistian take over of their original Pagan beliefs hence the church burnings. And when I need to get some life, I listen to my other favorite subgenre Funeral Doom.

    • @TheMetalTempestYT
      @TheMetalTempestYT  Месяц назад +1

      Which is interesting, since a ton of metal genres that're objectively more popular in the grand scheme of things are veryyy anti-religious as well depending on what genre you're looking at. But three cheers for that ending, LOL. agreed

    • @TheMetalTempestYT
      @TheMetalTempestYT  Месяц назад +1

      @@childlessdoggentleman746 I absolutely adore funeral doom! shout out to the record Subaqueous by Drown if you've never heard it before!

    • @childlessdoggentleman746
      @childlessdoggentleman746 Месяц назад

      @@TheMetalTempestYT We discussed John Lennon's "Imagine" in another video.

    • @childlessdoggentleman746
      @childlessdoggentleman746 Месяц назад

      @@TheMetalTempestYT My favorite in the genre and one of my favorite albums/songs cross-genre is Bell Witch's epic "Mirror Reaper." People don't understand how when I'm feeling depressed listening to that type of music can be so relieving to me. In a way it exorcises the grief out of me. It is one of my strongest coping skills along with my Corgi, Cunneda, and Dachshund, Fenrir.

  • @sixfitdip
    @sixfitdip Месяц назад +3

    I hope this video will reach more people

  • @IvanoForgione
    @IvanoForgione Месяц назад +6

    could we say that BM was the closest to going mainstream when Mother North by Satyricon had some nice airing time (maybe a Beavis episode?) on television and an appearance in an american movie (Spun)? Not really, but close.

  • @childlessdoggentleman746
    @childlessdoggentleman746 Месяц назад +9

    Black Metal is my favorite sub-genre. While I can enjoy what I refer to aa Bubblegum Black (It's always fun to laugh at Cradle of Filth), I prefer the purer forms of the genre. Also, there is a clear distinction between classic American Black Metal and Norwegian/Pagan Black. The Norwegian gives you both the epic and the lo-fi. I adore Emperor's epic mythology-based black, but I get a stronger emotional response to the sparseness of a Burzum. Atmospheric is my favorite sub-genre and honestly it has elements from many levels of Blackness. To fully understand why proper Black Metal will never be in danger of mainstreaming, watch the exceedingly rare times normal music reactors encounter pure Norwegian Black. While in most of their reactions they seem consistently upbeat about what they are encountering, but a typical Black review will leave them questioning the sanity of someone actually enjoying this barren bleak musical landscape. One of the reasons for extreme lo-fi is to purposefully put off non-Black Metal fans.

    • @TheMetalTempestYT
      @TheMetalTempestYT  Месяц назад

      I definitely agree with that ending of purposefully pushing people away. black metal has ALWAYS been excellent at shoving away anyone who isn't true kvlt enough to enjoy the music. Black metal is so damn diverse and versatile, even in the more lo-fi and underground stuff, that boxing it into one corner is going to be next to impossible and that's going to be something a lot of 'normies' in massive air quotes are never going to particular understand in the same way they could understand a more surface level genre like death metal with fewer off-shoots that're at least more digestible and understandable. cheers and thank you so much for the comments and engagement!!!!!!!

    • @childlessdoggentleman746
      @childlessdoggentleman746 Месяц назад +1

      @@TheMetalTempestYT Some of my information came from a History of Black Metal book which was composed of interviews with Black Metal artists who explain much of the rationale behind why they do what they do. I apologize but I can't remember the name of the book and it's hidden under piles of books, my other great love.

    • @salted_twinkle_toes6720
      @salted_twinkle_toes6720 Месяц назад

      ​@@childlessdoggentleman746that's a shame you can't remember the book as it sounds awfully interesting, definitely a book I'd like to read. Most I've read so far covering the history do a terrible watered down job but that book actually sounds pretty promising. 🙏

    • @childlessdoggentleman746
      @childlessdoggentleman746 Месяц назад +1

      ​@@salted_twinkle_toes6720 I can't find my own copy, but I looked on Amazon and by the cover, I know I've read it but not sure it is right book. The book might be Dayal Patterson's "Black Metal: Evolution of the Cult." Hopefully, it's the right book. As an aged headbanger, my memory has been impaired by too much banging.

    • @childlessdoggentleman746
      @childlessdoggentleman746 Месяц назад +1

      @@salted_twinkle_toes6720 Another book that you might appreciate is Garry Sharpe-Young's "A-Z of Black Metal" (2001) which is a dense guide to Black Metal artists. It is older but I found artist here that I haven't found elsewhere. I believe it is out of print, so it might take some searching to find a copy.

  • @thisisnotmyrealname6990
    @thisisnotmyrealname6990 Месяц назад +4

    I remember a couple years ago the black metal Spotify playlist had more monthly listeners than the death metal playlist which I found very funny.

  • @Zecuu
    @Zecuu Месяц назад +1

    I think the closest black metal has come to "mainstream" is probably the soundtrack to Cyberpunk 2077. That game has a radio station called Ritual FM with a lot of raw black metal songs in there. Honestly, I think it's pretty cool.

  • @salted_twinkle_toes6720
    @salted_twinkle_toes6720 Месяц назад +2

    Ik ur channel is more "commentary" but would you ever consider going into the histories of the genre and branching subgenres. A lot of other people already have but they tend to water it down or romantise the events as you're saying with the lords of chaos. Idk, its a very broad topic but an interesting one none the less.

    • @TheMetalTempestYT
      @TheMetalTempestYT  Месяц назад +1

      funnily enough, I did a rough guide to different genres that I want to get more into and I'd love to make a version of it that's nothing but the history/timeline of different genres. :D i would love to!!!!!!!

  • @TheNJ93487
    @TheNJ93487 Месяц назад +3

    I supposed it's the Lords of Chaos movie about black metal.

  • @ChrysTheMusicianReacts
    @ChrysTheMusicianReacts Месяц назад +7

    Appreciate your words on this subject!
    Unrelated, you get a haircut or something? Cause your hair looking NICE!

    • @TheMetalTempestYT
      @TheMetalTempestYT  Месяц назад +1

      Haha, appreciate it! I've been thinking about it but no, I haven't gotten a haircut recently.

    • @ChrysTheMusicianReacts
      @ChrysTheMusicianReacts Месяц назад +2

      @@TheMetalTempestYT Sure! :D

  • @pl9nningforburial
    @pl9nningforburial Месяц назад +1

    people can wear mayhem shirts all they want but the music perfectly filters people out

  • @gothicshark
    @gothicshark Месяц назад +3

    hmm, for a sec I was going to say something contrary ... but in checking Merciful Fate and Morbid Angel do not count as Black Metal, just influential to the genre. So yeah, cool. Didn't notice this I wouldn't count myself as a Black Metal person, but I do follow some metal that edges into the genre a bit, but then I'm also an older generation.

    • @childlessdoggentleman746
      @childlessdoggentleman746 Месяц назад +2

      For the uninitiated, who want to try lo-fi Black Norwegian listen to Burzum's "Filosofem" (1996). It is considered one of the milestones for the genre.

    • @TheMetalTempestYT
      @TheMetalTempestYT  Месяц назад +1

      @@childlessdoggentleman746 Great Burzum album!

    • @TheMetalTempestYT
      @TheMetalTempestYT  Месяц назад +2

      Haha, that's fair. A lot of people see Merciful as a precursor, same with Celtic Frost.

  • @nateB-l7k
    @nateB-l7k Месяц назад

    This is why I listen to deathcore😎
    If it’s heavy, it’s good

  • @Owlr4ider
    @Owlr4ider Месяц назад +1

    What does Opeth have to do with a black metal discussion...? Opeth is a progressive death metal band that for 4 albums forgot that 'death' was part of their sub-genre. They never were anywhere near black metal... Cradle of Filth I can understand as they're kind of black metal lite, or as some would say black metal adjacent, but again not fully black metal. I guess if you consider the likes of Venom and Bathory black metal than yeah Cradle of Filth is too, but even though these bands technically started black metal, the black metal we know today is a direct evolution of the Norwegian sound. As in the second wave of black metal, bands like Mayhem, Emperor, Immortal, etc, yeah those guys... Modern black metal took that sound and went crazy with it in all directions but this sound is still at the core of most if not all modern black metal of its many, many, many sub and sub-sub-genres.
    Not being a purist or anything, just being accurate. Likewise when it comes to black metal and mainstream, Cradle of Filth is a solid gateway band into black metal, even if they themselves are black metal lite/adjacent. However the real 'issue' if you will, when it comes to purists that is, is real black metal bands that combine black metal with other genres, perhaps the most notable examples here being Dimmu Borgir and their symphonic black metal music. Dimmu Borgir started as a 'pure' black metal band, than experimented with the sound and added foreign elements to it which ended up in what we now call symphonic black metal. Black metal purists have long since disavowed from Dimmu Borgir but the 'damage' to them has already been done, as a 'true' black metal band falling away from the sub-genre and by adding these symphonic elements making their music much more accessible to non black metal fans and a truer gateway band to the genre than Cradle of Filth ever was. Than you have the other side of non black metal bands that incorporate black metal elements in what is now colloquially called 'blackened'. Blackened can be anything these days, as in any other metal sub-genre, but the most popular of course being death metal with bands like Behemoth leading the charge in the realm of blackened death metal. This created another gateway into black metal for non black metal, but fellow extreme metal, fans into black metal.

  • @simonrodriguez930
    @simonrodriguez930 Месяц назад

    I would argue that most of the bands that you mentioned as "mainstream" aren't even that mainstream, they're well known for people that are into metal or different types of music, but aren't really that popular in general, or not to the point I would call them "mainstream". Also, Black Metal becoming "normie" is like when people argue that Warhammer 40K will become mainstream, dude lets be real nobody that isn't deep into the sinkhole (either be Metal music or fantasy/roleplay) will like neither of those things

  • @ophilianecr
    @ophilianecr Месяц назад

    I always enjoy your take on BM because it makes me think about the scene as it's become broader. Things are definitely shifting, but if the exposure of BM is ever going to rival mainstream bands out there, it's going to an uphill battle to get there. BM has BEEN an acquired taste for decades!
    Even among metalheads, most won't frequent the genre aside from a few songs. The Elements of BM are making their way to so many genres now, but it still can't be the trvr kvlt stuff. The BM that has less varied, dynamic sound compared to bands like Dimmu, CoF, Behemoth is generally the stuff where it's a wall of repetitive sound. That can be very dissonant to people who connect with embellishments and variety in their metal. I don't see that changing in mass because Dani filth collabed with Ed Sheeran and Lords of Chaos edgelords. 😂
    "Real black metal" lol, has to test the boundaries in more than just upsetting Christians, and that puts it in a place similar to genres like goregrind and Doom: the masses can't get over a lot of the other elements like very dark themes and visuals along with the sound itself. The more palatable stuff is still a stretch for people outside of metal, for sure!!
    ETA: that eyeshadow looks cool, but i encourage that it be more BLACK 🖤

  • @Jezza-m5k
    @Jezza-m5k Месяц назад +1

    Pleb-ians, not "plee-bians"... Dear Lords of Chaos! Heaviosity is a relative concept... and "mainstream" is too. Kurt Cobain considered Nirvana "underground" when in sctual fact Nirvana created Pop music. Sorry Kurt! Trve Kvlt... these are the bands that create their music for the "outsiders" not the posers that infest tthe scene these days. Late Nineties, there were no posers in Black Metal...

    • @TheMetalTempestYT
      @TheMetalTempestYT  Месяц назад

      Oh absolutely.
      And for the record, the plee-bian pronounciation is for the meme of it, because there's this over the top trend of the m'lady type purists/elitists that I hate the most LOL and they pronounce it exactly like that. :p

    • @Jezza-m5k
      @Jezza-m5k Месяц назад

      ​​@@TheMetalTempestYTIndeed, the "m'lady type purist/elitists" they have all of the Metal t-shirts and own no physical media. And few attend actual "real life" concerts. As for the "meme", thanks for heads up...

  • @gx1tar1er
    @gx1tar1er Месяц назад

    I wouldn't say it's mainstream but i'd say the fandom is larger and more cult following now. It's also still one of the most relevent genre in the metal scene (I'd argue it's far bigger and more worldwide than some obscure sub-genres of electronic music scene) and remains an influential genre.

  • @UTFx13007
    @UTFx13007 Месяц назад

    I'm no music buff, but I can't stop mentally comparing BM to Jazz. Both have a "core" that is considered the genre's "true" representation (according to it's fans). And that core is very hard to enjoy listening for the average music enjoyer, unless they have been slowly primed by it's periphery. And I don't expect it to change. Maybe we will see some more borrowed influences from BM like Jazz experienced, but the core will remain unpleasant to the odd listener.

  • @mindful2864
    @mindful2864 Месяц назад

    Black metal is meant to be an extreme and abrasive subgenre of metal. Everything from the unconventional song structure to low-fi production and anti-religious lyrics and imagery are meant to be as anti-mainstream as possible. There are bands like Dimmu Borgir, Cradle of Filth, Carach Angren, and Deafheaven who are more accessible and well known but even then they won’t be played on the radio in the same way Korn and Linkin Park would. Corpsepaint which has been adopted in the mainstream, wasn’t meant to look pretty and appealing. It was meant to look like a literal corpse and was adopted by Dead from Mayhem. It’s great that there are gateway black metal bands like the bands mentioned earlier but it’s always meant to be underground and should be kept that way.

  • @Sulomor_BM
    @Sulomor_BM Месяц назад

    black metal fans always act like it's super underground and unknown and then they listen to mayhem and grausamkeit

  • @Bobby14
    @Bobby14 Месяц назад

    I feel like everyone one has a Black Metal phase, not an emo phase... 😂
    Idk, I love lots of it but it's not my overall favourite metal genre, but I am a bit baffled on how it's suddently every teen's favourite genre, at least in Romania's underground is pretty huge

  • @JohnSmither-tf8lx
    @JohnSmither-tf8lx Месяц назад

    I couldn't care less if it goes mainstream or not, im not going to to waste my energy on that. Im just going to enjoy the music and so long as none of it is censored and more music is made. Idc if people want you use the style or font either. Why would i? What kind of loser gets mad at someone for using a font

  • @raiwet
    @raiwet 28 дней назад

    Black metal fans are like Linux users: gatekeepers

  • @kittygirl91_2
    @kittygirl91_2 24 дня назад

    👍

  • @oleksandrbyelyenko435
    @oleksandrbyelyenko435 Месяц назад +1

    However Black Metal is popular nowadays it is still non mainstrean

  • @Mayonnaisesucks730
    @Mayonnaisesucks730 Месяц назад

    Newer black metal fans complain nonstop about "gatekeeping", while simultaneously attempting to change the basic elements of the genre lol. They whine nonstop about "TRVE KVLT NERDS" as if people don't just simply enjoy more raw forms of the genre. Me not wanting to listen to a thousand shitty "Vampyric" demos on band camp doesn't make me an "Elitist", I'm just not interested wasting my time with endless dogshit.

  • @TheNJ93487
    @TheNJ93487 Месяц назад

    Wait. It's just never mainstream?

  • @zachnorman1893
    @zachnorman1893 Месяц назад

    I'm not gonna watch this video but dude has never seen agaloch (or whatever)

  • @elCamaradaR
    @elCamaradaR Месяц назад

    Ancient in the mtv channel refuted you