I've deep-dived into a ton of noise music genres and I've always been fascinated by how it is endlessly anti-music in how it's created. How do you define 'talent' for a genre that is intentionally going out of its way to challenge the conventional norms about how we SEE music?! Let's talk about just that! But what're your opinions of this topic?! Be sure to let me know down below! But for now, cheers, rock on, stay heavy and have yourselves a fantastic rest of your day or night, depending on when you see this!!!!!!! 🤘🤘🤘🤘🤘🤘🤘
You mentioned knowing the difference between good and crappy noise. What are some examples you'd define as either? For me, Yakushimaru Etsuko's 'Flying Tentacles' album is the best noise I've heard for the variety between tracks. Pedestrian Deposit are considered masters of the genre, but I was bored by them. Not because they're bad, but just that I didn't resonate with it, which happens and is always fine. But yeah, would love to know your examples.
I mean, when people dismiss noise music I just challenge them to make a good noise album. It takes at the very least a rudimentary understanding of audio and some degree of efficiency in creating compelling textures. Yeah, some albums have gotten famous and a good rep without these things, but those are the ones with the most clones (i.e. most of the harsh noise wall scene) and for the most part nobody pays attention to their imitators. A great noise musician stands out (i.e. Tourette, Merzbow, Kazumoto Endo, or countless power electronics acts) in the degree to which they are efficient in creating compelling textures. And this is a skill, much like working a DAW for making EDM
Yes. Absolutely it does. Talent isn’t solely technical proficiency, it can be on an idealistic or improvisational or conceptual or whatever. Are there throwaway noise artists and releases? Absolutely, but thats apparent in every genre. I am also extremely biased in favor of my genre but I don’t think you could pick up some rando off the streets or program some AI that can do what I can do exactly how I can do it. Especially in a live setting.
hell yeah, Ramleh's Hole in the Heart is the only real noise thing Ive heard but the moving arrangements and texturing on there certaintly takes craft and skull
I stumbled across The Caretaker’s Everywhere at the End of Time album awhile back, and your description of not really enjoying a lot of noise music but finding it fascinating immediately reminded me of a comment under where that was posted: “This is the best album that I will never listen to again.”
Noise Music and Heavy metal owe a big debt to 2 artists, Arnold Schoenberg (1874-1951) and Igor Stravinsky (1882-1971). Schoenberg wanted to shatter the rules of composing music. One of the rules of music is that certain notes together produce a pleasant sound while others don't. Schoenberg decided to eliminate the notion of music being written in a certain key. He improved upon Josef Matthias Hauer's twelve-tone technique. The twelve-tone technique "is a means of ensuring that all 12 notes of the chromatic scale are sounded equally often in a piece of music." (Wikipedia). By having the different notes appear equally often results in the music not being in key. This results in a sound that is not necessarily pleasant to the ear. Igor Stravinsky is the better known of the two and he utilized this and other techniques to create atonality and dissonance in his compositions. "The Rite of Spring" is probably his best-known work. Composer Giacomo Puccini described the choreography as ridiculous and the music cacophonous-"the work of a madman." (Wikipedia). Basically, as with Noise, audiences either loved it or were completely baffled by its appeal. Noise Music and Heavy Metal as a whole use the foundation built by these two pioneers. The sound of metal that non-fans don't like often originates from the rule breaking of these composers.
I'd love to see you cover more noise influenced music and bands. "Noise" is such a wide genre (anti-genre?) where there is something there for almost everyone.
I certainly think that some noise musicians have a lot more talent and thought put into their works than others, but I can definitely see where you're coming from.
I've listened to some noise stuff and while it didn't immediately made me turn it off it was difficult to keep my attention span for repeated listens. I think it's because of *how* a lot of noise artists get brought in by extreme music fans which is mostly grindcore fans that start to navigate right into trying Merzbow for example. Nowadays I think that liking fairly 'noisy' music doesn't prepares you for the very different song structures you find on noise. I've come to appreciate a lot more Electronic music now through getting into aggrotech stuff and that kind of got the different way EDM works into my ears and I think if people navigated through this path or at least got familiar with other forms of electronic music first before jumping down the noise rabbit hole they'd get a lot more out of their experience.
absolutely! i think it takes a pretty creative mind to produce a noise project that's able to maintain a genuine and stable level of interest. i mean, otherwise, noise music fans would be in love with everything they hear in the genre but if you've interacted with noise aficionados at all before that's obviously not the case! we care a lot about the texture and feel of the sound...in a way that's not too far off from how ambient music gets interpreted. maybe that overlap occurs in my mind only because i love both of these fields. anyways, as you mentioned with Merzbow, noise can (and generally should!) carry a lot of dynamics and compositional variance over the course of its duration and all respected composers of noise are able to take advantage of this in their own idiosyncratic way. i think of noise as being one of those things that's easy to understand but hard to master. awful noise is just as ear-grating to me as it is to people who just hear, well, "noise" lmao. and yeah on the note about the subgenres, noise is surprisingly versatile! and i mean it, it's very variously vile (poor shot at alliteration but it's the effort that counts!). if we take power electronics as an example, even artists within that space can sound worlds apart from each other. the sheer dread of Genocide Organ and the tender palpitations of Ramleh's "Hole in the Heart" album evoke entirely different imagery and emotions in my mind. i suppose ive rambled enough for now, mb about the formatting lmao. great vid as always!
If you look for the most hard metal inspired noise record, i've never heard something as loud and crushing as Summit Lesion by Summit Lesion In a more chaotic electroacoustic abrasive collage, check out John Wiese record named "Soft Punk". Lots of horrible noises and weird texture, very hard to listen but so intense and interesting
In post modern art(traditional art that is) there are art pieces that literally take 0 skill like presenting a white sheet of paper as 'post modern art'. However there is also most modern art that is extremely whacky and whatever but does actually have substance to it beyond raising questions and challenging conventions but ultimately presenting nothing. The same is true for noise music or any other art form that is challenging the current norm. Some of it is haphazardly put together and it's only the philosophical aspect of it that has any value, however some of it does have actually merit(that in turn does take skill) to the work itself beyond the philosophical aspect.
I will split this discussion between 2 comments. Yes, I like Noise Music while it's far from my favorite I definitely enjoy listenong to it. My ability to enjoy Noise falls outside the genre. Until I listened to Ministry's "ΚΕΦΑΛΗΞΘ" aka Psalm 69 (Industrial), I was not capable of appreciating the types of sounds that Noise produces. When I first purchased "Psalm 69," I honestly hated it. I don't abandoned albulms that I bring into my collection that easily. It went into the rotation and after many plays my ear was suddenly attuned to what I previously thought was unlistenable. Since then, I've been able to do the same with other genres with that atonal dissonance sound. I prefer the Noise adjacent Drone Metal which I absolutely love it's both perfect white noise for when my thoughts are racing and perfect background noise for when I'm reading which is a lot of my time. Sunn O))) and Earth are my favorite drone groups.
ok... now we are talking.. a Genre I use to follow in the late 90s. Yeah I know Noise... Helped run an Industrial Noise Club, had Noisex, Babyland, and others do live shows at our events. I listen to lots of it, but I prefer the Industrial Noise best, as disjointed walls of sounds need that angry bass to stomp your boots and punch the air too.
Goddamn Noisex was awesome. All of that electronic powernoise movement from the late 90s through the early 2000s was so amazing. I picked up almost everything coming out on Hymen/AntZen and other similar labels at the time. SO many of the boxsets and special releases at the time were so well thought out and matched the beauty and brutality of the music. It really helped influence a great deal of the music and packaging art I was making at the time.
as a noise musician id say it depends, skill or talent is not required to make good noise but its not like its impossible noise skillfully if that makes sense?
I think most noise artists themselves would actually be against calling it talent or skill. The very point is that its... noise. As you said, it's anti-music. It's anti-art. A lot of noise isn't even bearable to listen to. There's a couple noise artists I like. But I usually like it being incorporated into black metal, grind, etc.
Well, Its kinda split. Noise Subgenres are very different. But to pure Noise, no. It's turning some knobs and pushing some buttons and putting a distortion on it. But it is intense, and I do feel that you have to have a bit of talent in audio software or something like that.
For me noise music is an art statement like Malevich's black square. In the grand scheme of things it only matters who made the statement first. And imo, If you keep producing black squares it eventually dillutes the power of the statement. I mean that all the reproductions have no value over the original.
Maybe technical skill on using their equipment and dexterity but nothing like music theory knowledge and writing an actual song with scales, chords, and structure
Listening to this after the AI video and laughing because I feel like you can all of the noise ideas as far as being anti music, rejecting the norms and basically doing whatever the fuck you want. It’s either good or it sucks. Can’t wait for AInoisegrind to take off.
I've deep-dived into a ton of noise music genres and I've always been fascinated by how it is endlessly anti-music in how it's created. How do you define 'talent' for a genre that is intentionally going out of its way to challenge the conventional norms about how we SEE music?! Let's talk about just that! But what're your opinions of this topic?! Be sure to let me know down below! But for now, cheers, rock on, stay heavy and have yourselves a fantastic rest of your day or night, depending on when you see this!!!!!!! 🤘🤘🤘🤘🤘🤘🤘
You mentioned knowing the difference between good and crappy noise. What are some examples you'd define as either? For me, Yakushimaru Etsuko's 'Flying Tentacles' album is the best noise I've heard for the variety between tracks. Pedestrian Deposit are considered masters of the genre, but I was bored by them. Not because they're bad, but just that I didn't resonate with it, which happens and is always fine. But yeah, would love to know your examples.
I mean, when people dismiss noise music I just challenge them to make a good noise album. It takes at the very least a rudimentary understanding of audio and some degree of efficiency in creating compelling textures.
Yeah, some albums have gotten famous and a good rep without these things, but those are the ones with the most clones (i.e. most of the harsh noise wall scene) and for the most part nobody pays attention to their imitators.
A great noise musician stands out (i.e. Tourette, Merzbow, Kazumoto Endo, or countless power electronics acts) in the degree to which they are efficient in creating compelling textures. And this is a skill, much like working a DAW for making EDM
Yes. Absolutely it does. Talent isn’t solely technical proficiency, it can be on an idealistic or improvisational or conceptual or whatever. Are there throwaway noise artists and releases? Absolutely, but thats apparent in every genre. I am also extremely biased in favor of my genre but I don’t think you could pick up some rando off the streets or program some AI that can do what I can do exactly how I can do it. Especially in a live setting.
hell yeah, Ramleh's Hole in the Heart is the only real noise thing Ive heard but the moving arrangements and texturing on there certaintly takes craft and skull
I stumbled across The Caretaker’s Everywhere at the End of Time album awhile back, and your description of not really enjoying a lot of noise music but finding it fascinating immediately reminded me of a comment under where that was posted: “This is the best album that I will never listen to again.”
Noise Music and Heavy metal owe a big debt to 2 artists, Arnold Schoenberg (1874-1951) and Igor Stravinsky (1882-1971). Schoenberg wanted to shatter the rules of composing music. One of the rules of music is that certain notes together produce a pleasant sound while others don't. Schoenberg decided to eliminate the notion of music being written in a certain key. He improved upon Josef Matthias Hauer's twelve-tone technique. The twelve-tone technique "is a means of ensuring that all 12 notes of the chromatic scale are sounded equally often in a piece of music." (Wikipedia). By having the different notes appear equally often results in the music not being in key. This results in a sound that is not necessarily pleasant to the ear. Igor Stravinsky is the better known of the two and he utilized this and other techniques to create atonality and dissonance in his compositions. "The Rite of Spring" is probably his best-known work. Composer Giacomo Puccini described the choreography as ridiculous and the music cacophonous-"the work of a madman." (Wikipedia). Basically, as with Noise, audiences either loved it or were completely baffled by its appeal. Noise Music and Heavy Metal as a whole use the foundation built by these two pioneers. The sound of metal that non-fans don't like often originates from the rule breaking of these composers.
I'd love to see you cover more noise influenced music and bands. "Noise" is such a wide genre (anti-genre?) where there is something there for almost everyone.
anyone has the potential to make noise, but it takes an immense amount of passion, dedication and, indeed, talent to make compelling art out of it.
No, and i don't think anybody cares that it doesn't
I certainly think that some noise musicians have a lot more talent and thought put into their works than others, but I can definitely see where you're coming from.
I've listened to some noise stuff and while it didn't immediately made me turn it off it was difficult to keep my attention span for repeated listens. I think it's because of *how* a lot of noise artists get brought in by extreme music fans which is mostly grindcore fans that start to navigate right into trying Merzbow for example.
Nowadays I think that liking fairly 'noisy' music doesn't prepares you for the very different song structures you find on noise. I've come to appreciate a lot more Electronic music now through getting into aggrotech stuff and that kind of got the different way EDM works into my ears and I think if people navigated through this path or at least got familiar with other forms of electronic music first before jumping down the noise rabbit hole they'd get a lot more out of their experience.
absolutely! i think it takes a pretty creative mind to produce a noise project that's able to maintain a genuine and stable level of interest. i mean, otherwise, noise music fans would be in love with everything they hear in the genre but if you've interacted with noise aficionados at all before that's obviously not the case! we care a lot about the texture and feel of the sound...in a way that's not too far off from how ambient music gets interpreted. maybe that overlap occurs in my mind only because i love both of these fields. anyways, as you mentioned with Merzbow, noise can (and generally should!) carry a lot of dynamics and compositional variance over the course of its duration and all respected composers of noise are able to take advantage of this in their own idiosyncratic way. i think of noise as being one of those things that's easy to understand but hard to master. awful noise is just as ear-grating to me as it is to people who just hear, well, "noise" lmao. and yeah on the note about the subgenres, noise is surprisingly versatile! and i mean it, it's very variously vile (poor shot at alliteration but it's the effort that counts!). if we take power electronics as an example, even artists within that space can sound worlds apart from each other. the sheer dread of Genocide Organ and the tender palpitations of Ramleh's "Hole in the Heart" album evoke entirely different imagery and emotions in my mind. i suppose ive rambled enough for now, mb about the formatting lmao. great vid as always!
If you look for the most hard metal inspired noise record, i've never heard something as loud and crushing as Summit Lesion by Summit Lesion
In a more chaotic electroacoustic abrasive collage, check out John Wiese record named "Soft Punk". Lots of horrible noises and weird texture, very hard to listen but so intense and interesting
It doesnt take talent to make noise music but it takes talent to make interesting noise music
In post modern art(traditional art that is) there are art pieces that literally take 0 skill like presenting a white sheet of paper as 'post modern art'. However there is also most modern art that is extremely whacky and whatever but does actually have substance to it beyond raising questions and challenging conventions but ultimately presenting nothing. The same is true for noise music or any other art form that is challenging the current norm. Some of it is haphazardly put together and it's only the philosophical aspect of it that has any value, however some of it does have actually merit(that in turn does take skill) to the work itself beyond the philosophical aspect.
I will split this discussion between 2 comments. Yes, I like Noise Music while it's far from my favorite I definitely enjoy listenong to it. My ability to enjoy Noise falls outside the genre. Until I listened to Ministry's "ΚΕΦΑΛΗΞΘ" aka Psalm 69 (Industrial), I was not capable of appreciating the types of sounds that Noise produces. When I first purchased "Psalm 69," I honestly hated it. I don't abandoned albulms that I bring into my collection that easily. It went into the rotation and after many plays my ear was suddenly attuned to what I previously thought was unlistenable. Since then, I've been able to do the same with other genres with that atonal dissonance sound. I prefer the Noise adjacent Drone Metal which I absolutely love it's both perfect white noise for when my thoughts are racing and perfect background noise for when I'm reading which is a lot of my time. Sunn O))) and Earth are my favorite drone groups.
Man, Genocide Organ live is wild
ok... now we are talking.. a Genre I use to follow in the late 90s. Yeah I know Noise... Helped run an Industrial Noise Club, had Noisex, Babyland, and others do live shows at our events.
I listen to lots of it, but I prefer the Industrial Noise best, as disjointed walls of sounds need that angry bass to stomp your boots and punch the air too.
Goddamn Noisex was awesome. All of that electronic powernoise movement from the late 90s through the early 2000s was so amazing. I picked up almost everything coming out on Hymen/AntZen and other similar labels at the time. SO many of the boxsets and special releases at the time were so well thought out and matched the beauty and brutality of the music. It really helped influence a great deal of the music and packaging art I was making at the time.
Love me some bizarre uproar
Ronnie radke
ronnie radke? ;oo he is my favorite noise musician indeed
@ just had to say what needed to be said
@@K1D_P3GGY Please don't hurt Ronnie's feelings. You're gonna make him cry.
@@PoetryAndTofu oh no😭 I would hate to hurt his oh so precious feelings
@@K1D_P3GGY yeeeeeeeah! And if he goes and makes fun of teenagers on the internet, that's on YOU!
as a noise musician id say it depends, skill or talent is not required to make good noise but its not like its impossible noise skillfully if that makes sense?
Anyone can make noise but it takes talent to make it interesting
I mean Metalheads and punks couldn’t replicate Merzbow’s pulse demon, nor perform it on stage like Masami Akita could 🤷♂️
I think most noise artists themselves would actually be against calling it talent or skill. The very point is that its... noise. As you said, it's anti-music. It's anti-art. A lot of noise isn't even bearable to listen to. There's a couple noise artists I like. But I usually like it being incorporated into black metal, grind, etc.
boris! merzbow! based
Well, Its kinda split. Noise Subgenres are very different. But to pure Noise, no. It's turning some knobs and pushing some buttons and putting a distortion on it. But it is intense, and I do feel that you have to have a bit of talent in audio software or something like that.
Yes. I have listened to great noise albums and to shit ones. Definitely you need talent
I broke the like counter again, lol.
You're so quick!
@@TheMetalTempestYT >:)
For me noise music is an art statement like Malevich's black square. In the grand scheme of things it only matters who made the statement first. And imo, If you keep producing black squares it eventually dillutes the power of the statement. I mean that all the reproductions have no value over the original.
No
first
Maybe technical skill on using their equipment and dexterity but nothing like music theory knowledge and writing an actual song with scales, chords, and structure
Listening to this after the AI video and laughing because I feel like you can all of the noise ideas as far as being anti music, rejecting the norms and basically doing whatever the fuck you want. It’s either good or it sucks. Can’t wait for AInoisegrind to take off.