I was married to a narcissist for 20yrs... Autism and that are not the same. My boyfriend is autistic & he's definitely not a Narc. He's the sweetest most loving dude I've ever met❤
Speaking as an aspie, I can sort of see why people might see me as a narcissist, and I have been accused of it. I do have to watch out for appearing self-involved, and for appearing not to think of others. I also can simply be blind to people's feelings, and miss social cues. Sometimes I can be blunt, and overly direct, and even come across as full of myself I guess. However, I don't do it to manipulate people - far from it. I catch myself doing it, or reflect afterward, and beat myself up in those endless replays I play out in my head (in between the endless rehearsals for next time). I also don't need or thrive on admiration. In fact I go through life never really knowing how people actually feel about me, and I'm a little surprised and sometimes embarrassed when people do compliment or flatter me. I find it profoundly embarrassing to be called out publicly for praise. Thinking about it further, I also mask myself, and I put a lot of effort into it. Little things like adopting the right facial expression and working on eye contact and thinking about the rules of conversation and all the work that goes into looking, sounding and acting convincingly human. I guess on one view that might also be seen as manipulative. I don't do it for that reason though, but instead in order to fit in, to avoid attracting adverse attention, and to avoid making people uncomfortable. In large part it is self-protection, something I had to learn, quite consciously and by the application of a lot of effort, from when I was a kid. It was that or be bullied, ostracised, and alone. Manipulating people to get ahead, and have power over them, is just completely foreign though. I don't have any interest in it and I don't think I actually could do it if I wanted to. It seems to call for a whole skill set that I just completely lack. I'm just happy enough to be allowed to live safely among the humans and to have people see me as a nice person, and more or less one of them.
Thanks for yout answer. About taking the blame for things you said ot did, as he mentioned, how do you feel about that? Or are you deflecting and projecting the blame on others usually, to not feel the pain.?
You are most certainly all humans to me. There’s a thousand different ways to mix the ingredients to make a human. Some are different colours, shapes and sizes. Some see things a very different way or can’t see at all. Some are born with 2 of something they should only have one of, or one of something they should have 2 of. Some with none of something they should have at least 2 of! But they are humans and so am I and so are you.
One thing I've noticed, narcissists tend to do well with first impressions, they have plenty of false charm to go about but ultimately they cannot keep it up and save for a few 'flying monkeys' in their life, they lose most connections and relationships. People with Autism on the other hand may be awkward and not make a good impression to begin with but in time can make lasting relationships. Not always the case of course.
Unfortunately I had a employer like that. In the first talk he seemed nice and open and helpful. When I started work he was manipulative, ignorant and overdemanding. He did not unterstand that I was not alle to run the Wohle thing after one and a half week. I tried to talk to him. Again he seemed open to critic, nice, willing to change some things. Nothing happened but ihm talking to my collegue who told me he thought me lazy, stubborn and arrogant. And that I would lose the job if I would not change. For me as a (not diagnosed yet ) self-identified autist this was… a catastrophe. I quit after two month without new job. Best decision ever.
the biggest difference I've found is that a narcissist will willingly inflict pain and harm on another person out of a sense of vengeance or punishment or self preservation... I personally cannot comprehend this
Thank you for acknowledging the fact that Aspergers is AUTISM. I'd like to add that those on the spectrum can be too self-aware (or at least think we are) & think about our feelings all the time - even if confusing . ● One thing about narcissists you left out is the ability or capability of abuse. The narcissist may practice gaslighting . This is one of the worst forms of emotional abuse as they will have their victim (usually those closest) believing that they are crazy. A narcissist can tear your world apart from every angle and enjoy doing so all the while convincing you that you must be crazy to believe the things you are saying or feeling. Its a complex web ,but the only spinner is the narcissist- (Outrageously different from someone on the spectrum)
@@Elena-true yeah but in general narcissism is a spectrum, just like autism. Everyone shares narcissistic traits to certain degrees but only those who meet the requirements for a diagnosis of a narcissistic personality can really be considered a narc.
Narcissist don't want to be socially awkward. Definition of a narcissist is "selfishness, involving a sense of entitlement, a lack of empathy, and a need for admiration"..... nowhere in there is someone who will want to seem awkward in any way.
@@lizzy2.020 there is. In order to repel someone who has no narcissistic supply to offer the narc, the narc may result to being withdrawn in order to do so.
@@solidsnake9898 Withdrawn and awkward are so different tho... I've dealt with narcissists and people on spectrum and I was a bit surprised at this comparison. A narcissist will simply leave one who no longer serves their needs/wants or in a toxic relationship, this is where the love bombing ends & gaslighting and other emotional abuse begins. Just my personal experience ✌
As an autistic person, I personally wouldn't describe us as, "one-dimensional," because no one is just one thing. Rather, I'd say we're consistent. We're always the same person, though masking for social situations may make it appear that we, "change personality," to fit those settings. Also, we feel very deeply and are connected to our feelings as well, we just have a hard time interpreting and expressing them.
When masking, do you mask the same around everyone or do you act differently with different people E.g. parents, different friendship groups, colleagues etc
@@LG-Musique I don't mask at home. With my mask I think there's kind of levels? Like, as to how much of my autistic traits I suppress. Like, in a classroom I'll purposely reduce stimming (or find less noticeable ways to stim) and I generally don't interact with classmates much, but when I'm at work masking has more to do with voice control and scripting. I guess, I analyze the situation to figure out what type or level of masking is most necessary and go with that.
@@Lillyluvsanime thanks. The scripting is really interesting to me. I do this a lot in work type settings etc. I didn’t know this was another trait. I’m not diagnosed with autism, but can see some similarities in myself with some things
As someone with NPD, the emotions part is kinda misleading. We have REALLY strong emotions (emotional cluster yo) . But similarly to you guys, we have alexithymia so we struggle to identify and connect to a large number of emotions. Usually it comes out as anger due to that. When I was younger I had three emotions, good, bad and angry. All of which were SUPER intense
I think what can confuse people is that many autistic people have ptsd/cpstd or a pd as a result of abuse. Npd is also caused by abuse. So our trauma symptoms can be similar to other people with different conditions, people who have also been abused. I was raised by an npd mom and enabling dad.
@@martynborthwick1845 my partner is bpd, example that can help distinguish between both if you don’t have experience is their Splitting. Let’s say he does something impulsive, I get mad cuz he’s not following what we planned, we argue. Pt1
@@iwishmynamewasclementine I believe we end up with borderlines at times because we subconsciously know we suffer from a few similar traits, we feel like we understand each other. But BPD the most manipulative PD by far imo never ends well lol
A main difference is empathy. I would consider myself a highly sensitive person and very in tune with my emotions, my abusive ex who was a covert narcissist has no empathy and plays people to get what he wants. Faking a relationship for nearly 5 years to lilly pad from one relationship to another to kill time and boredom whilst he waited 5 years for his intended victim to cave in and then discard me like I was nothing. Lied about being single when he wasn't and used me as a means to an end. I could never dream doing that to another human being because I am a good person
A lot of misinformation in this video, namely because you forgot the edge case where someone has both. "A person with aspergers will never _____ but a narcissist will" makes no sense once you realize that the person with aspergers can also be the narcissist.
I am by no means an expert on neurological disorders or mental health but just going on my personal experience. I've struggled throughout my life with social situations and have tested as Aspergers but have not been confirmed by a professional. My sister in law is a narcissist and our relationship has always been extremely negative. Even when I first met her as a child. Aspergers and narcissists clash because Aspergers don't have the social grace to ignore manipulation or coercion and that drives narcissists insane because an Aspergers is usually the only one to call them out on the bullshit.
I called out the neighborhood bully on his bullying and manipulations in front of all the neighborhood kids and he left in shame. Two weeks later he turned the whole neighborhood against me. From 5th grade till my senior year he and his band of followers relentlessly heckled me. From 6th grade till my 16th birthday when I got my driver's license I had to ride the bus to school with him and his band of hecklers calling me all sorts of horrible things at the top of thier lungs. The Bus drivers either ignored it or they also got heckled by these hoodlums if they tried to intervene.
I agree . I have learning disabilities as well on top of mental health. I have been with a couple of narcissists. They tried to manipulate the situation and protray me as a crazy person and tell me it was my fault they behaved the way did .
Sucks ass cause to other people, we do seem weird. Thats why narcs love to go after people with pre-existing conditions, it's easier to victimize themselves to others, especially if their audience doesn't understand mental health (or know about certain disorders). Only reason i was able to defend myself even a bit is because i was very open about my diagnosis from the get go.
I am autistic and I can definitely project onto people. We are not totally innocent. I'd say the key difference is that when I project I feel it and know what I'm doing and it's not that subtle and I will go and reflect on it for days and feel really guilty and ashamed and probably try to apologize even for a small thing that the other party might already have let go. I've gone back years later with guilt from lying to someone too. So yeah we can lie and project. But, I think, it affects our conscious more deeply and doesn't last as long. Because we're quite black and white in our thinking and when we know we've done something wrong (even if it was more socially acceptable to do the "wrong" thing), we reveal the truth eventually. Which can be quite disruptive to the social constructs and games we must play. And can therefore get us into trouble. Hence we can get into a lot of drama. Much like someone with a personality disorder. Which autistic people can develop as many experience neglect and trauma experienced from being misunderstood, undiagnosed, unsupported + add whatever socioeconomic & personal factors that people can experience filtered through neurodiverse processing = 🤯🤪 crazy making mess, a truly horrible and lonely experience for someone to have both autism and a personality disorder 💔
My husband is autistic and a narcissist. It is incredibly frustrating. We've been together for 23 years this year so I've been around him since he was 19.... He's never had a diagnosis but he's positive he's autistic and obviously we don't talk about the narcissism but everyone brings it up
Good of you to acknowledge that an autistic person can be narcissistic. Saw another video from an autistic creator recently that was just "autistic people can't be toxically rude or self centred, it's impossible"-- and the creator really did sound/act, well, quite narcissistic.
My boyfriend has Asperger's (he was diagnosed at 10), and my father is a narcissist. Certain qualities my father and boyfriend have tend to overlap, but the motives are vastly different and my boyfriend has told and proven to me over time that he's the same loving guy that I met when we first started dating.
I always become close to people with Aspergers... I could be on the spectrum myself. That being said, it is important for people with autism to realize that their behavior can have the same effect as that of a narcissist, and they can emotionally abuse people, even if they aren't intentionally wanting to hurt people. It takes effort to not abuse people, in every case, no matter who you are. No offense, but I am never going to put myself through the kind of pain that I have endured, but if I had to choose between my narcissist/borderline sociopath ex and my ex with aspergers, I'd rather be with the former, he was actually less manipulative and more feeling.
As someone on the spectrum I realise I come across to others as a bit of a self involved douche which is one similarity, but I am consciously working on being better
Thanks for all your helpful insight! My two teenage sons are both on the spectrum with major differences. It is so helpful all of the info from an adult who has gone through all of this and is doing so good. Do you think you might do a video on the worries the teens with Aspergers have about their future and the constant anxiety they feel? How can parents be helpful and calm the teens worries? This would be so helpful.
Good idea. My 15 year old daughter has major anxiety issues and is trying to think of things she could do for work. Even online jobs from home would be difficult as she has some learning issues that make her self-confidence low, as well as ADHD. It’s hard to advise her as I am currently unable to work at all. I really don’t want her ending up having the same issues I do!
It's a dangerous thing for other people to judge what YOUR syndrome is. I've been accused of being narcissistic because neurotypical friends have little actual understanding of my triggers and syndrome. People really have the tendency to label when it suits their current opinion of you.
Speaking as someone with Asperger’s, I believe feelings are important, also I’m a big believer in empathy. I really show what I’m feeling. It’s not easy for me to mask what I feel whether it’s frustrating, anger, disappointment, depression, anxiety, etc. I do want to be honest about what I’m feeling, but never to the point to where it’s "all about me". Also, I do believe everyone ought to be responsible and accountable for their actions and their behaviors.
You show your feelings like anger and frustration to yoir partner, does that mean you get upset and angry at them? Or can you also explain what is going on with your emotions, So the other person can understand? How good can you speak about your emotions in general?
Knowledge is power, understanding is wisdom, and Radical Acceptance is Key. Education is your only way to serenity. Serenity does not mean freedom from the storm, but peace amid the storm.
Just a quick comment on point number 4. Not so much now, but when I was younger I would definately adjust myself to fit in in different situations. Particularly with clothes, almost creating a character to hide behind.
I'm 53 and I still mask, tho less so each year. Masking is a survival strategy and can be much like wearing costumes out in the world. It is not from a malicious intent to fool people. Costumes can help to facilitate social interactions for those of us who are doomed to social awkwardness. Might as well steer into the skid! Who we are is still the same, we are just wearing a different mask (wig, costume or other comfort clothes).
A clinical narcissist may not be able to identify their problem behavior. Or to care about others My aspie girl is very empathetic when she understands she has been inappropriate or rude. And she cares very deeply about others
Before I had my diagnosis I did a psych test at my therapist and I scored way high on the narcissistic traits. Like loving to talk about your own interests and stuff. It felt really wrong because of the reasons you mentions. Sometimes the result can be the same in a situation for the outsider but the motive and motivation of narcissism and autism are sooooo different.
Hi and thanks for your heartfelt and educational videos. As the mother of a possible aspie and the daughter of a narcissistic father I can confirm just about everything you said here, however, narcissism isn't primarily a disorder but rather a personality trait. While there is a disorder called narcissistic personality disorder (NPD) this is very rare as it 1) has to affect the narcissist themselves in a negative way 2) they need to recognise and admit that it does so and 3) narcissists rarely do that. Narcissism as a personality trait on the other hand is quite common indeed. Narcissism as a diagnosis is highly debated as narcissists are made and not born, another significant difference between ASD and narcissism or NPD.
My son has Asperger's and he doesn't necessarily point blame to others but it's more along the lines of "I'm not doing anything wrong". When I call him out on something, he just says "what do you mean?" It's so frustrating.
Is it possible he actually is not doing anything wrong? Whatever he's doing might be bothering you. But is it actually wrong? Or is it simply a difference of opinion and perspective on his behaviour. Perhaps he truly does not understand what you mean. It may seem obvious to you, but not understanding what is obvious to others is a classic part of Autism. We simply don't share yer perspective and we likely never will. (google the double empathy gap in Autism) Can you step away from from wrong/right and find ways to communicate your preferences to your son? Can you make it a request, rather than a call out?
I like your work. It's completely relatable. I googled the topic because for years I thought my spouse was a narcissist but have been exploring autism as being more the case, coupled with dysfunctional upbringing by narcissist parents, learned dysfunctional adaptive behaviors, learned narcissist behaviors and learned narcissist avoiding behaviors it can get quite convoluted.
I believe my ex has both. I have adhd and probably autism. I blame him now but for over a decade I just took all the blame, gaslighting, and manipulation, then he cheated on me repeatedly. I excused the behavior because of his autism for 17 years and finally ended it. Def have been looking for content JUST like this. As a neurodivergent person myself, I have rules and I don’t break them if I can help it.
Just broke up with my bf who was on the spectrum too and I miss him so much, we might be able to work things out but if not I wanna find another autistic guy to date, I just don’t know where to look :/
I was diagnosed with Asperger's and ADHD in the mid 1980s as a child. And it is quite interesting how far we've come to understand it. I do have to say one thing about your last point. My ex-wife is a covert narcissist, and would get very frustrated when I would explain my actions instead of just apologizing to her. She would then go into a rage and the next thing I know I was being "punished" IE silent treatment, physical aggression, verbal abuse ect. As I became more aware of what was happening, she would blame me for something the shoe herself was doing. And after a certain point I noticed it right away, and at that point shift the blame back onto her. So we can learn not to take all responsibility for the situation that we are in. Now she is the only person that I've ever done that with. I just thought that that information would be useful. I loved the video, keep up the great work
That might be a small part of it, but most of it has to do with massively different "cultures" of social interaction between allistics and autistics. The autistic style of communication is highly offensive and rude in allistic culture. Likewise allistic way of communicating is highly confusing to autistic people as much of the communication is nonverbal, subtle social cues that autistic people often don't notice
I definitely agree with all if this, tho I did want onto add for the fourth point. Narsasitic people will have a variety of personalities to get want they want and to manipulate someone's view of them as a person for whatever reason they have decided on. Where a autistic person can also have a variety of personalities in a way but it's out of survival instead. I'm always a open book and I just am who I am. But in the same hand, being a autistic raised as a girl (im nb), I have had to mask my entire life, in the home and outside of it. I'm still who I am but I have had to hide and suppress maaaany aspects of myself as well as adopt others from the people surrounding me. I know from your vids your obviously fully aware of masking haha, but just wanted to add on that we can also have a chameleon affect tho it is out of survival and having been shown again and again the parts of ourselves which are very unwanted by the world and people surrounding us and learn to hide them out of survival vs to manipulate and take control of a situation xP
Well and succinctly said! Masking is a survival strategy and can be much like wearing costumes out in the world. It is not from a malicious intent to fool people. Costumes can help to facilitate social interactions for those of us who are doomed to social awkwardness. Might as well steer into the skid! Who we are is still the same, just a different mask (wig, costume).
Also narcs have an almost complete lack of insight as well as a scattered sense of self in which they deny their inner insecurities to themselves. Deep down in their core content, they have an extreme sense of shame. On surface content it doesn’t manifest even to themselves
My sister recently died, and her partner with Asperger’s really doesn’t seem to care. He is acting more like a 13 year old boy released from school after a hard day than a 70 year old man. They were a couple for 20 years. He keeps wanting to do things “not involved with Louisa’s memory“ and talking about seeking a new partner. He repeats this to me, her sister, and to her daughter, and she has been dead only three months. She was the dominant one in the relationship but otherwise he never got anything done. What do you think?
I work in disability and have learned a lot and still have a lot to learn about the nature autism. I know there are common issues around perception, self perception, world perception and the perception of others that some can perceive as selfishness so while I have never thought autism or asbergers and narcissisim were the same thing, I know a guy, not a client but a coworker who has asbergers and I can testify that they can most certainly coexist in the same person but why not? By GOD I can attest to that. Hoo-EEE boy-howdy! This guy. WOW. So I haven’t met a lot of Aspie folks but I’m learning that there is a perception out there that they are self absorbed or selfish. (and this particular guy isn’t helping😂)
Its very interesting that you say that about Narcissistic personality disorder. I'm pretty sure borderlines create personalities aswell not because they are trying to control people but because they genuily have had some injury to the self so they have lost themselves due to the trauma.
As a former borderline myself, that sounds right. I have been accused of manipulating alot of times, but the thing is; my feelings are so strong in those situations that i am not able to manipulate. To manipulate someone you have to have some self control and be able to think clearly. I know i would come across better and would have kept my relationships longer if i was able to manipulate. When im calm, i know what would work, but im not able to. I also cannot tell how to "just be myself" in alot of situations, i do not know what that is. I try to behave in a way that will not make people angry with me, and thats that. (Some of this do not apply anymore tho, as i am no longer diagnosed with borderline as i have gotten much better - but i can still identify with alot of it and remember how it used to be)
I'm subscribed to the MedCircle channel where I found Dr Ramani, then I was watching the video on her chanbekabout narcicissm and autism and yours was recommended. So now I'm subscribed to your channel too!
So, how does this relate to atypical autism presentation (called girl autism sometimes)? Because I have no desire to manipulate anyone or blame anyone. But when I get really frustrated with my communication issues I do get frustrated and sometimes angry. Like, “I’ve explained this 5 different ways, why are you still doing this thing I can’t stand.” Kinda thing. Yes, I mostly internalize the blame, but when calm or when frustrated enough I DO know it’s not all my fault either, it is partly their fault. Or it’s no ones fault. I also feel like I have more awareness than some autistics about my emotions, I don’t think that makes me narcissistic though. And then, what is the comparison with Oppositional Defiance Disorder and autism vs narcissism? My oldest seemed to have ODD and ASD when he hit puberty, before that he was very sweet. And I know it had to do with his stress and sense of justice getting mixed up with his all or nothing and black and white thinking. And a lot of why all that went down that way is because I was constantly ignored when I asked for an autism assessment for him, so we didn’t know what was going on at all at the time. So, I still don’t consider it narcissism with him, even though he got quite angry when things didn’t go well and he began to turn his anger out instead of inward, blaming others instead of himself for things that, often, were no one’s actual fault. I still find the differences hazy on all this and think it’s all too easy to get an incorrect and possibly very demeaning feeling diagnosis. Makes me sad.
A narcissist favorite target 😥 to say ur speaking of the vary ones they vary much enjoy picking on the most narcissist favorite one's to gaslight 😥 they think they can get away with it but some how it dose. All come back to the narcissist.
someone on the spectrum has gaslighted me...just saying. Let's not paint aspies like they are all good people or people that don't have abusive tactics.
It's really not that simple. If you're not happy about having narcissism, then most likely you have "learned traits" and the good news is that you can discover why you do what you do and then learn alternate ways to get what you want in life but being more mindful of how you can affect others. Your immediate feelings are indicators of what is true. A narcissist literally doesn't care about how they affect others which can also be a mindless thought for autistic people but not in a malicious way because the degree a narcissist will go to get what they want is to the point an autistic person won't go.
I would just like to say thanks for uploading this informative video. I'm on the autistic spectrum. I have been accused of being a narcissists. I don't tell people I'm on the spectrum. They ask way to many questions and look at you differently too. I have had the pleasure of meeting other autistic people. Some people think we all the same. When in fact we are all just like everyone else. Different likes and dislikes and so on. Anyways just wanted to say again thanks so much for the video!! And have an awesome day 😀 😎!!
Hi, it could be helpful for you and other people if you talk about being autistic because they will understand you better and stop taking things personally and will forgive you if they felt hurt by you.
Can you do a video about managing the desire to obsessively talk about the same subject? I am driving people crazy. Also having a hard time developing any new interests so there's a limited scope of what to talk about, and I only have 2 people I can usually talk to so they are tired of hearing it.
My 12yr old has Aspergers, ADHD, and Dyslexia. He never takes responsibility for anything. I don’t think he is trying to manipulate the situation like a narcissist would to lay blame. I think he really doesn’t think anything is his fault. I kinda wonder if it’s ODD (however never been diagnosed). Thoughts?
Humble opinion: ASD people have extreme difficulty understandig social rules and social behaviors. Trying to explain "blame" in terms of social rules is a terribly bad idea. Instead try to explain "responsability" in specific, rigid rules, for example, pretend that you are "the bank" and explain "responsability" of requesting, receiving, paying and failure to pay a loan (obviously, simplify the terms for his age).
I want to thank you so much from the depths of my heart, for all you do. You've given me answers to questions I've had for a really long time. I have combined ADHD. NPD runs in my family, and my ex husband shows so many of the signs of NPD, but is not diagnosed. Because of this, I've been so very worried about the mental health of my children. My eldest child is not his biologically, but has suffered so much trauma because of him... both directly, and indirectly. We (my daughter and I) are setting an appointment tomorrow to get an assessment to clarify/verify where she is on the spectrum! ... I'm so grateful for all you do. I was undiagnosed combined ADHD for 39 years. I can only imagine what you've been through...a better image than most people, as ADHD is kinda like watered down diet Autism, ... but even still... You are a warrior I'd wanna fight next to on the battlefield of life, I'll tell you that for free! You are amazing and inspiring and have given hope and peace to a mother's troubled heart. That make you a hero. One of MY heroes! Thank you so much!
From what I hear they're a all mental health issues. Just different degrees, severities "spectrums." Just like we can't separate out body, mind and Spirit. Many are connected of sorts, and likely "a mix" of both etc. The brain is a very complex and complicated thing and trauma plays a MAJOR roll as well. CPTSD is part of the umbrella of neurological issues. Good to know we're much more than this human brain🧠🌅🙏🕊️
Hey, I dont usually have anything to say but you definition of narcissism is way off. I'm a psychologist, have worked with many. The main characteristic is a lack of empathy. People are tools, you grease the tool it works better ( to get your supply). The need to control others, develops in childhood, is based on fear of abandonment or not being seen = nor being taken care of. They are incurable ln e at this pt in time.
I got misdiagnosed and ended after corona up with Anxiety and Depression according to my doctor but I never say that I have Depression I call it Burn Out and I didn’t had it until 2019 after I didn’t had enough time to relax because my workplace where I was before did not gived me enough vacation and my mom died in 2015 she was depressed and my father has ADHD and acts narcissistic and like a psychopath
I know plenty of people on the spectrum who feel shame from not being completely at ease or in sync with the world and get turned off massively by shutting down and then deflecting or projecting their triggers from all the stress in overthinking to another person. Aspergers/Autism doesn't mean personality/character is all perfectly kind and good/confused/naiive... there are people on the spectrum who love pushing all the buttons on people for fun to see reactions and bluntly degrade, speak down to someone in disdain because they themselves feel different. or when things dont go exactly their way in the specific way, throw massive temper tantrums not knowing how to regulate. some can even get violent verbally or physically. the black and white thinking and jumping conclusions and being totally stubbron is another trait. i know another scenario when someone had been shamed for doing something competely wrong again and again when they're young bc of their aspergers.... then go mimic by speaking exactly like how they were spoken to in a situation that doesn't match the occasion. while we can understand why someone does xyz, give empathy towards their inability to have EQ, people KNOW when theyre doing something wrong to a certain extent and should take full responsibility and accountability.
Being Autistic is not an Amazing experience. Especially when you don't get a diagnosis, help, and literally caused generations of trauma. WTF is wrong with people?
Reading about autism, I have no doubt my friend falls in that category. But some of the things he does would fall in to being a narcissist. Does things that are hurtful to women that he is supposed to be in relationship with, not sure if he doesn’t realize how hurtful it is, or he’s being a narcissist. He’ll be in a relationship with one woman and have no problem with dating another but not letting her know about the person he’s been with for three or four years. He honestly doesn’t think there’s anything wrong with this. And gets his feelings hurt if you question him about it, trying to explain how bad this is hurting the other person. And of course, he’s very Chris Matic, will help anyone that needs it, give a person the last shirt off his back. They are both very good friends of mine and I don’t know how to help.
My ex boyfriend was like this, when I called him out for being "toxic" and manipulative (which I did calmly and tactfully) he refused to take any accountability and blamed it on aspergers. So I simply cut ties with him, as cold as that sounds, but I needed to take care of my emotional well-being. I don't know your situation and who this person is to you, but my advice would be to be cordial and kind but try to limit interaction or emotional attachment if you can. There's no cure to narcissism, unfortunately.
my voilent ex partner is Narcissistic Convert with Learning Disorder with other mental issues with myself and my children on spectrum it was scary and terrifing 16 years it took to get heard and get protection because of peoples misunderstandings and with him and his illness things got complex but now slowing sorting out it self out 16 year battle but praying there is light. Legal systems and spectrum disorders there is issues in this field as people in legal systems misunderstand differences between nerological and mental health. you have to go through tests through there system to see if you are capable to deal with a case and take instructions from whether you could answer questions to go forward maybe could be a next video to help others that maybe in this field
The intention. Most narcists want to manipulate what you see in them. They want attention, being liked and dominate the relationships. Autists just try to blend in or communicate in a was neurotypical persons Unverstand.
Masking is like mimicking a physical trait of someone else to create similarities in social behavior. Personality change is the switching of a personality into someone completely different.
Autism is mainly caused by inflammation in the brain and gut. It is epigenetic so has both genetic and environmental causes. The primary environmental cause is childhood vaccines, which contain aluminium and traces of mercury and can cause serious brain and gut inflammation in some babies and children who are unable to cope with these and other toxins. Often due to the MTHFR genetic mutation which means they are more easily depleted of glutathione and unable to detox. So Its not usually caused by incorrect ‘wiring’ of the brain - its brain inflammation and the particular area of damage will affect what autistic characteristics the child will develop. Eg if the damage is primarily in the left hemisphere they will likely become right hemisphere dominant and vice versa. A study by Chris Exley looking at the brains of deceased autistic people found the highest concentrations of aluminium ever seen in the human brain. Aluminium, particularly the type found in vaccines is not the benign substance we have been told it is.
@@rabeechowdhury rejection anxiety,depression, and additive personality people with autism are very highly susceptible to addiction of drugs and alcohol because of these trates.
@@maximilianrpm2927 already replied. Aspie world needs to make a video and addressing these issue not just do tips and signs of to know if u have autism.
@@anthonywyattStylist there are plenty of people who are autistic who also have ADHD and a much larger margine of those who are autistic that are susceptible to addiction have ADHD than not. To me an addiction of anything but weed is counterintuitive to someone who is autistic but doesn't have ADHD cause they're already overstimulated.
I have two questions - Elon Musk is a self proclaimed aspy . Do you believe it ? I recently saw a documentary video by his first wife - who describes in great detail how Elon had no capacity for human compassion ; that he was self absorbed in his businesses. She claimed he had nothing to do w. her or their 5 children. That he was ice cold & calculating. > Is that the way most aspy persons operate ? Very exciting to be around but unable to connect on an emotional level. > If aspy’s are uncomfortable w. their own feelings, how can they possibly cope w. the feelings of others ??
I am ADHD and we have some behaviors in common with narcissists such as monologuing... Narcissists love to monologue because they feel in control, they feel like they dominated and that everyone is under their feet... ADHD monologues because we are really bad at paying attention and we don't have proper socialization or proper social skills or perception.
Would a personality disorder make sure of being ASD out of fear of hurting others? I was just told by a doctor who I never met that I am not ASD, I have a personality disorder.
Hi, (update: sorry if I come across as arrogant - which I am Lol - I was tired when I posted this lengthy stuff and after rereading I see that it needs some editing. So, yes my comment is somewhat offensive because I am tired of NPD handled as a moral disorder and about the web using it in antagonistic ways to promote one's self-image as 'good' by opposition to the evil NPD. Also, I would personally not take the liberty to talk about ASD because clearly I don't know enough. We need to be careful not to be judgmental of one another. We are Mankind. Narcissists are a nightmare for partners. It's not the point. The point is that we have a personality disorder and the abuse derives from it. I don't mean this as an excuse). I agree about the difference between ASD and NPD in terms of the first one being a neurodevelopmental disorder and the second a mental disorder. For the rest, your view of NPD is biased or even erroneous which is the norm. even among psychiatrists. Unless one has specifically studied personality disorders, one has no choice, but to be biased. So about everybody's view of NPD is biased and worse NPD is now the label used to qualify every type of abuse in a relationship. Now, the word 'narcissist' had a negative connotation to start with (being sefl-preoccupied, self-centered is not indeed very apreciated) but we now face a real vilifying propaganda of this label where NPD the root cause of evil on earth. I can expand on this craze which is much more dangerous and evil than narcissism as a personality disorder. To make it short, fraudulous experts ae exploiting the pain, rage and anger and resentment experienced by people who dated an NPD. Indeed, we can't make it as partners, we don't know it, the abuse is real and can only escalate but all of this mainly happens between the narcissist and their partner and neither the partner nor the narcissist know it can't work. Now, the problem is that we have a personality disorder and are not aware of it. Grandiose have no clue that they aren't the mature and wise guy they think the are and vulnerables, like me, know something is off, are depressed, manipulative towards the partner but not scheeming or cunning. We attack the couple very hard and don't know where this comes from. And actually we hate ourselves for having nasty thought, devaluing and so on and not being able to accept the love. All this is unconscious. So self-proclaimed experts lie about NPD and sell 'victims' hatred and the reassurance that they are not the 'evil' ones. Victims who see themselves as such have their own issues they are scared to face so need the narcissist to be the evil one. And this is how you have a total craze. I am a vulnerable narcissist. Actually it's the most common form, but due to a long-lasting confusion between ASPDs and NPDs in terms of similar behavioral patterns (acting entitled, seeking admiration...) the grandiose type is really the one described in the DSM to the detriment of the vulnerable type. And on top of that the DSM arrogant NPD guy is a mix of a grandiose NPD and a grandiose ASPD (a relic from the past). I hope the DSM kicks him out on its next edition. Grandiose are really controlling towards the partner and are scared of being manipulated by them. They have a script and expert the partner to executute it. When the partner deviates (and you only deviate), they are mad and discard you. They rarely go out of their zone of comfort and when they do risk themselves into their partner's world, they become awfully nasty, attacking ... depreciate the partner or their friends.... When asked to explain, they gaslight. They cannot admit their emotions and flaws and mostly their emotional needs which are those of a child needing a mother to stand by and applaud. They have zero consciousness about that. Now my type is not better. But all this is to say that grandiose narcissists, the ones you were referring to, have a pathological need for admiration. PATHOLOGICAL. I personally don't really understand what it is all about. I figured out a whole lot by dating one but cannot totally grab this need to be at the center of attention. It is disagreable for others but it is a matter of survival to them. This I know for sure. SO I WAS TRIGGERED by your description of narcissists as MANIPULATING people for their GAIN. No, narcissist do not manipulate for their GAIN. Somehow, whether we are talking about coverts or overts, the manipulation is barely conscious and is implicitly a matter of survival. Your description is the layman view of NPD. We suffer a great deal. I rarely say it. We made a choice as babies because we thought life was against us. Trump is not an NPD, nor is Megan Markle. Famous NPDs were vulnerables and died before 30 in general. Amy Winehous. Kurt Cobain. I couldm't identify a famous overt (grandiose). They seek admiration within their circle mainly. Ted Bundy was a malignant NPD. Maybe just a regular NPD who turned bad. I don't know. So we have a hell of a life. We are not immoral at all. On the contrary. You can't talk about NPD in terms of behaviors or presume things based on RUclips narratives. These guys are all frauds and make money on our back. Your guy would be a grandiose sociopath. But I hate to throw ASPDs under the bus either because most often have stronger values than the norm. RUclips coaches have done such a great job, that now everyone thinks they know who is a narcissist and who isn't. Check DSMV-TR (pdf online), old version section II and MOSTLY dimensional version section III. Unfortunately the vulnerable type is barely mentioned. Now, People are not labels. We are not in a competition. This is narcissistic in itself.
Is it narcissism if you create personas for the soul reason of fitting in? I don't want to manipulate anyone I just don't understand most social norms and want to portray self confidence around other people so around my coworkers I try to talk more often and act more together so I don't come off as the weird quiet guy, which I guess I am.
Nope, that’s just masking. Or at least an element of it. I always felt that way. I thought of myself as a chameleon before I even knew that term was used commonly to refer to masking.
I enjoy watching your videos. I have been on the waiting list to be assessed for Autism next week and really nervous. What advice would you give far an adult like me who is to be assessed ans the actual assessment day?
But the Lord said to Samuel, “Do not look at his appearance or at his physical stature, because I have refused him. For the Lord does not see as man sees; for man looks at the outward appearance, but the Lord looks at the heart.” 1 Samuel 16:7 - NKJV
I’m curious about the personality thing. Because Masking seems a lot like having different personas for different situations. Since female aspies tend to be better at masking, is there a high occurrence of misdiagnosis between women with autism and women with NPD?
There is between ASD and BPD because of the emotional dysregulation (don't know how high though). I have also heard of it being misdiagnosed with bi polar too.
The only thing is, ASP people do often use manipulative without really understanding that it's wrong or maybe not even knowing they're doing it and furthermore ASP usually do display narcissistic behaviors. It's just caused by neurological make up. Still makes relationships really unhealthy. Not really sure how anyone navigates that. My marriage is ending 😔
Women aspies can appear different when they mask... Giving the slight appearance of being different around different settings... Internally they are the same but outwardly they appear to be socially adapting.
Honestly this video seems too generalized. For instance you say aspies have trouble recognizing their emotions, but I read that only 50% of autists have alexithymia (the condition you are describing). You don't have to be a narcissist to blame others for things. It's a common behavior when you are immature and angry at the world. But if it's insanely excessive (unable to ever admit you are wrong) then yea it's a more serious mental problem. I think it's not rare for aspies to be angry at society or feel like they are not at fault, that they are just different, and it is society that is the problem. And to be honest aspies sometimes have good reason to blame others. They are often unfairly treated due to not fitting into NT norms.
So, I've had a couple of people close to me, who were/are in a relationship with someone claiming they act the way the do because they are Autistic. (One of them self diagnosed) However, in my opinion, the traits of these two guys matched narcissism more than autism, (except for being charming I guess.) For example: they are controlling(-always high-jacking their partners phone,) argumentative, (calling people evil for disagreeing with them,) self projecting, (if you tried to call them out on their shit they would accuse you of prideful and self righteous.) They were very smart/talented in certain areas, so I can see the autistic thing, but that can't be all that explains their boundary pushing behavior right? (Texting/calling until they get an answer regardless of the time of day.) I guess I'm asking if a narcissist would be manipulative enough to use Autism as an excuse? Has this happened to anyone else? I've seen it twice now. I should say I've also known people on the spectrum that don't come off as narcissistic, just blunt and a little socially unaware sometimes.
Iv put blame on other but thats because they actually did what ever it is they did but it always gets swhich back to me that im selfish am the one to blam im crazy totally manipulated and gaslighted
I’ve wondered this about someone in my life and I’m trying to figure out if it’s one or the other. What does comorbidity of the two look like? I’m not sure how to handle interactions and the takeaway, I always leave feeling confused.
The last couple years in my relationship with a narc has been confusing. Even when i don’t say anything at all, he comes bashing me with things from 10yrs ago. For that reason my communication turned down to almost zero with this man. My life, job and experiences, i can not share with this person anymore. Our Son is the only thing keeping us together. I have no love for this person anymore, i can’t leave because i know he will make my life feel like Hell.
Thank you 😔 this helps. I wonder, do you think narcissists are drawn to people with autism? Also I can't get a diagnosis and I'll be 40 this year. There's so many road blocks here and me not being able to take care of myself is perpetuating my further demise. I'm am so torn and can't get any professional help. Any suggestions? Sorry for info dumping. Feel free to not know how to answer me.
I was married to a narcissist for 20yrs... Autism and that are not the same. My boyfriend is autistic & he's definitely not a Narc. He's the sweetest most loving dude I've ever met❤
Nice
I'm glad you found a wonderful guy on the spectrum.
I’m on the spectrum and just broke up with my bf who was too, I miss him so much 💔😭
For now...
How do you tell the difference between very high functioning aspies and a narcissist?
Speaking as an aspie, I can sort of see why people might see me as a narcissist, and I have been accused of it. I do have to watch out for appearing self-involved, and for appearing not to think of others. I also can simply be blind to people's feelings, and miss social cues. Sometimes I can be blunt, and overly direct, and even come across as full of myself I guess.
However, I don't do it to manipulate people - far from it. I catch myself doing it, or reflect afterward, and beat myself up in those endless replays I play out in my head (in between the endless rehearsals for next time).
I also don't need or thrive on admiration. In fact I go through life never really knowing how people actually feel about me, and I'm a little surprised and sometimes embarrassed when people do compliment or flatter me. I find it profoundly embarrassing to be called out publicly for praise.
Thinking about it further, I also mask myself, and I put a lot of effort into it. Little things like adopting the right facial expression and working on eye contact and thinking about the rules of conversation and all the work that goes into looking, sounding and acting convincingly human. I guess on one view that might also be seen as manipulative. I don't do it for that reason though, but instead in order to fit in, to avoid attracting adverse attention, and to avoid making people uncomfortable. In large part it is self-protection, something I had to learn, quite consciously and by the application of a lot of effort, from when I was a kid. It was that or be bullied, ostracised, and alone.
Manipulating people to get ahead, and have power over them, is just completely foreign though. I don't have any interest in it and I don't think I actually could do it if I wanted to. It seems to call for a whole skill set that I just completely lack. I'm just happy enough to be allowed to live safely among the humans and to have people see me as a nice person, and more or less one of them.
I relate to this a lot
Thanks for yout answer. About taking the blame for things you said ot did, as he mentioned, how do you feel about that? Or are you deflecting and projecting the blame on others usually, to not feel the pain.?
@@SonyaKhanOfficial metoo
Daniel, very well said!
You are most certainly all humans to me. There’s a thousand different ways to mix the ingredients to make a human.
Some are different colours, shapes and sizes.
Some see things a very different way or can’t see at all.
Some are born with 2 of something they should only have one of,
or one of something they should have 2 of.
Some with none of something they should have at least 2 of!
But they are humans and so am I and so are you.
One thing I've noticed, narcissists tend to do well with first impressions, they have plenty of false charm to go about but ultimately they cannot keep it up and save for a few 'flying monkeys' in their life, they lose most connections and relationships. People with Autism on the other hand may be awkward and not make a good impression to begin with but in time can make lasting relationships. Not always the case of course.
Unfortunately I had a employer like that. In the first talk he seemed nice and open and helpful. When I started work he was manipulative, ignorant and overdemanding. He did not unterstand that I was not alle to run the Wohle thing after one and a half week. I tried to talk to him. Again he seemed open to critic, nice, willing to change some things. Nothing happened but ihm talking to my collegue who told me he thought me lazy, stubborn and arrogant. And that I would lose the job if I would not change. For me as a (not diagnosed yet ) self-identified autist this was… a catastrophe. I quit after two month without new job. Best decision ever.
So true.
So this is a competition!
Masking and camouflage in asperger's can make people very charming.
Remember that narcissism is the norm and encouraged by society, autistics and empaths are the minority and made to feel like they are inferior
the biggest difference I've found is that a narcissist will willingly inflict pain and harm on another person out of a sense of vengeance or punishment or self preservation... I personally cannot comprehend this
I've had to comprehend this...its a terrible thing to fall for
Thank you for acknowledging the fact that Aspergers is AUTISM.
I'd like to add that those on the spectrum can be too self-aware (or at least think we are) & think about our feelings all the time - even if confusing .
● One thing about narcissists you left out is the ability or capability of abuse. The narcissist may practice gaslighting . This is one of the worst forms of emotional abuse as they will have their victim (usually those closest) believing that they are crazy. A narcissist can tear your world apart from every angle and enjoy doing so all the while convincing
you that you must be crazy to believe the things you are saying or feeling. Its a complex web ,but the only spinner is the narcissist-
(Outrageously different from someone on the spectrum)
Autism and narcissistic personality disorder can commonly be comorbid. But narcs lack emotional empathy which isn’t an autism thing
Hi.
I'm intrigued. I've never heard that before, I am almost ignorant in both.
Could you give any source? How much does "commonly comorbid" is?
Yes. Autism and narcissism can be comorbid and this is like a kaleidoscope in one person
@@Elena-true How much? Source?
@@Elena-true yeah but in general narcissism is a spectrum, just like autism. Everyone shares narcissistic traits to certain degrees but only those who meet the requirements for a diagnosis of a narcissistic personality can really be considered a narc.
@@maximilianrpm2927 My father...of course that's an example, not a statistic.
For a Narcissist social awkwardness is a choice. For an Aspie it is an inevitability.
Narcissist thrive on doing as much harm as possible and still not satisfied they dead in side it's better to know u have a ❤ ur alive ur ❤ is 💘 ing
It’s not true why would anyone want to be socially awkward
Narcissist don't want to be socially awkward. Definition of a narcissist is "selfishness, involving a sense of entitlement, a lack of empathy, and a need for admiration"..... nowhere in there is someone who will want to seem awkward in any way.
@@lizzy2.020 there is. In order to repel someone who has no narcissistic supply to offer the narc, the narc may result to being withdrawn in order to do so.
@@solidsnake9898 Withdrawn and awkward are so different tho... I've dealt with narcissists and people on spectrum and I was a bit surprised at this comparison. A narcissist will simply leave one who no longer serves their needs/wants or in a toxic relationship, this is where the love bombing ends & gaslighting and other emotional abuse begins. Just my personal experience ✌
As an autistic person, I personally wouldn't describe us as, "one-dimensional," because no one is just one thing.
Rather, I'd say we're consistent. We're always the same person, though masking for social situations may make it appear that we, "change personality," to fit those settings.
Also, we feel very deeply and are connected to our feelings as well, we just have a hard time interpreting and expressing them.
When masking, do you mask the same around everyone or do you act differently with different people E.g. parents, different friendship groups, colleagues etc
@@LG-Musique I don't mask at home. With my mask I think there's kind of levels? Like, as to how much of my autistic traits I suppress. Like, in a classroom I'll purposely reduce stimming (or find less noticeable ways to stim) and I generally don't interact with classmates much, but when I'm at work masking has more to do with voice control and scripting.
I guess, I analyze the situation to figure out what type or level of masking is most necessary and go with that.
@@Lillyluvsanime thanks. The scripting is really interesting to me. I do this a lot in work type settings etc. I didn’t know this was another trait. I’m not diagnosed with autism, but can see some similarities in myself with some things
As someone with NPD, the emotions part is kinda misleading. We have REALLY strong emotions (emotional cluster yo) . But similarly to you guys, we have alexithymia so we struggle to identify and connect to a large number of emotions. Usually it comes out as anger due to that. When I was younger I had three emotions, good, bad and angry. All of which were SUPER intense
Oh sh*t. 😮I have alexithymia and am going through th ASD assessment. But I’m not ruling out NPD.
Oh hey, it's Jacob!
The nameless guy is named Jacob? @@AlastorTheNPDemon
@@skachor Oui
I think what can confuse people is that many autistic people have ptsd/cpstd or a pd as a result of abuse. Npd is also caused by abuse. So our trauma symptoms can be similar to other people with different conditions, people who have also been abused. I was raised by an npd mom and enabling dad.
Or get projected on by Borderlines and get accused of being one
@@martynborthwick1845 oh thats so true, that happened to me too
PS. They don’t even need to project. Both ASD and BPD struggle with emotional disregulation, many people don’t know how tell the difference
@@martynborthwick1845 my partner is bpd, example that can help distinguish between both if you don’t have experience is their Splitting. Let’s say he does something impulsive, I get mad cuz he’s not following what we planned, we argue. Pt1
@@iwishmynamewasclementine I believe we end up with borderlines at times because we subconsciously know we suffer from a few similar traits, we feel like we understand each other.
But BPD the most manipulative PD by far imo never ends well lol
A main difference is empathy. I would consider myself a highly sensitive person and very in tune with my emotions, my abusive ex who was a covert narcissist has no empathy and plays people to get what he wants. Faking a relationship for nearly 5 years to lilly pad from one relationship to another to kill time and boredom whilst he waited 5 years for his intended victim to cave in and then discard me like I was nothing. Lied about being single when he wasn't and used me as a means to an end. I could never dream doing that to another human being because I am a good person
A lot of misinformation in this video, namely because you forgot the edge case where someone has both. "A person with aspergers will never _____ but a narcissist will" makes no sense once you realize that the person with aspergers can also be the narcissist.
I am by no means an expert on neurological disorders or mental health but just going on my personal experience. I've struggled throughout my life with social situations and have tested as Aspergers but have not been confirmed by a professional.
My sister in law is a narcissist and our relationship has always been extremely negative. Even when I first met her as a child. Aspergers and narcissists clash because Aspergers don't have the social grace to ignore manipulation or coercion and that drives narcissists insane because an Aspergers is usually the only one to call them out on the bullshit.
Interesting point! Autists are the only one caööing them out, But why is that so you think?
I called out the neighborhood bully on his bullying and manipulations in front of all the neighborhood kids and he left in shame. Two weeks later he turned the whole neighborhood against me. From 5th grade till my senior year he and his band of followers relentlessly heckled me. From 6th grade till my 16th birthday when I got my driver's license I had to ride the bus to school with him and his band of hecklers calling me all sorts of horrible things at the top of thier lungs. The Bus drivers either ignored it or they also got heckled by these hoodlums if they tried to intervene.
I agree . I have learning disabilities as well on top of mental health. I have been with a couple of narcissists. They tried to manipulate the situation and protray me as a crazy person and tell me it was my fault they behaved the way did .
I'm glad you managed to get away.
Same here! And I have to deal with that shit for years & left situations like that 💯
Sucks ass cause to other people, we do seem weird. Thats why narcs love to go after people with pre-existing conditions, it's easier to victimize themselves to others, especially if their audience doesn't understand mental health (or know about certain disorders). Only reason i was able to defend myself even a bit is because i was very open about my diagnosis from the get go.
I am autistic and I can definitely project onto people. We are not totally innocent. I'd say the key difference is that when I project I feel it and know what I'm doing and it's not that subtle and I will go and reflect on it for days and feel really guilty and ashamed and probably try to apologize even for a small thing that the other party might already have let go. I've gone back years later with guilt from lying to someone too. So yeah we can lie and project. But, I think, it affects our conscious more deeply and doesn't last as long. Because we're quite black and white in our thinking and when we know we've done something wrong (even if it was more socially acceptable to do the "wrong" thing), we reveal the truth eventually. Which can be quite disruptive to the social constructs and games we must play. And can therefore get us into trouble. Hence we can get into a lot of drama. Much like someone with a personality disorder. Which autistic people can develop as many experience neglect and trauma experienced from being misunderstood, undiagnosed, unsupported + add whatever socioeconomic & personal factors that people can experience filtered through neurodiverse processing = 🤯🤪 crazy making mess, a truly horrible and lonely experience for someone to have both autism and a personality disorder 💔
Would you say you are also manipulative? Do you triangulate people? Why would you ignore a friend's email and not respond?
My husband is autistic and a narcissist. It is incredibly frustrating. We've been together for 23 years this year so I've been around him since he was 19.... He's never had a diagnosis but he's positive he's autistic and obviously we don't talk about the narcissism but everyone brings it up
Good of you to acknowledge that an autistic person can be narcissistic. Saw another video from an autistic creator recently that was just "autistic people can't be toxically rude or self centred, it's impossible"-- and the creator really did sound/act, well, quite narcissistic.
Thought I was autistic for a while but with therapy it turns out I’m a narc
I’ve always thought I was Narcissistic, the more I researched into the spectrum I feel like I have more Autistic traits.
My boyfriend has Asperger's (he was diagnosed at 10), and my father is a narcissist. Certain qualities my father and boyfriend have tend to overlap, but the motives are vastly different and my boyfriend has told and proven to me over time that he's the same loving guy that I met when we first started dating.
I always become close to people with Aspergers... I could be on the spectrum myself. That being said, it is important for people with autism to realize that their behavior can have the same effect as that of a narcissist, and they can emotionally abuse people, even if they aren't intentionally wanting to hurt people. It takes effort to not abuse people, in every case, no matter who you are. No offense, but I am never going to put myself through the kind of pain that I have endured, but if I had to choose between my narcissist/borderline sociopath ex and my ex with aspergers, I'd rather be with the former, he was actually less manipulative and more feeling.
Alexithymia is the reason for the abuse. Emotional blindness = doomed. If you can’t access your emotions you’re going to abuse the F out of people.
As someone on the spectrum I realise I come across to others as a bit of a self involved douche which is one similarity, but I am consciously working on being better
Thanks for all your helpful insight! My two teenage sons are both on the spectrum with major differences. It is so helpful all of the info from an adult who has gone through all of this and is doing so good. Do you think you might do a video on the worries the teens with Aspergers have about their future and the constant anxiety they feel? How can parents be helpful and calm the teens worries? This would be so helpful.
Good idea. My 15 year old daughter has major anxiety issues and is trying to think of things she could do for work. Even online jobs from home would be difficult as she has some learning issues that make her self-confidence low, as well as ADHD. It’s hard to advise her as I am currently unable to work at all. I really don’t want her ending up having the same issues I do!
It's a dangerous thing for other people to judge what YOUR syndrome is. I've been accused of being narcissistic because neurotypical friends have little actual understanding of my triggers and syndrome. People really have the tendency to label when it suits their current opinion of you.
Speaking as someone with Asperger’s, I believe feelings are important, also I’m a big believer in empathy. I really show what I’m feeling. It’s not easy for me to mask what I feel whether it’s frustrating, anger, disappointment, depression, anxiety, etc. I do want to be honest about what I’m feeling, but never to the point to where it’s "all about me". Also, I do believe everyone ought to be responsible and accountable for their actions and their behaviors.
Me too !
You show your feelings like anger and frustration to yoir partner, does that mean you get upset and angry at them? Or can you also explain what is going on with your emotions, So the other person can understand? How good can you speak about your emotions in general?
I was diagnosed with Asperger's syndrome, i am very introvert
Knowledge is power, understanding is wisdom, and Radical Acceptance is Key. Education is your only way to serenity. Serenity does not mean freedom from the storm, but peace amid the storm.
Just a quick comment on point number 4. Not so much now, but when I was younger I would definately adjust myself to fit in in different situations. Particularly with clothes, almost creating a character to hide behind.
I'm 53 and I still mask, tho less so each year.
Masking is a survival strategy and can be much like wearing costumes out in the world. It is not from a malicious intent to fool people. Costumes can help to facilitate social interactions for those of us who are doomed to social awkwardness. Might as well steer into the skid! Who we are is still the same, we are just wearing a different mask (wig, costume or other comfort clothes).
A clinical narcissist may not be able to identify their problem behavior. Or to care about others My aspie girl is very empathetic when she understands she has been inappropriate or rude. And she cares very deeply about others
Before I had my diagnosis I did a psych test at my therapist and I scored way high on the narcissistic traits. Like loving to talk about your own interests and stuff. It felt really wrong because of the reasons you mentions. Sometimes the result can be the same in a situation for the outsider but the motive and motivation of narcissism and autism are sooooo different.
Hi and thanks for your heartfelt and educational videos. As the mother of a possible aspie and the daughter of a narcissistic father I can confirm just about everything you said here, however, narcissism isn't primarily a disorder but rather a personality trait. While there is a disorder called narcissistic personality disorder (NPD) this is very rare as it 1) has to affect the narcissist themselves in a negative way 2) they need to recognise and admit that it does so and 3) narcissists rarely do that. Narcissism as a personality trait on the other hand is quite common indeed. Narcissism as a diagnosis is highly debated as narcissists are made and not born, another significant difference between ASD and narcissism or NPD.
My son has Asperger's and he doesn't necessarily point blame to others but it's more along the lines of "I'm not doing anything wrong". When I call him out on something, he just says "what do you mean?" It's so frustrating.
Is it possible he actually is not doing anything wrong? Whatever he's doing might be bothering you. But is it actually wrong? Or is it simply a difference of opinion and perspective on his behaviour.
Perhaps he truly does not understand what you mean. It may seem obvious to you, but not understanding what is obvious to others is a classic part of Autism. We simply don't share yer perspective and we likely never will. (google the double empathy gap in Autism)
Can you step away from from wrong/right and find ways to communicate your preferences to your son? Can you make it a request, rather than a call out?
Autistic people don't manipulate narcissists, but narcissists love to manipulate Autistic people. I was the victim of that for years.
I totally agree and same with me
I like your work. It's completely relatable. I googled the topic because for years I thought my spouse was a narcissist but have been exploring autism as being more the case, coupled with dysfunctional upbringing by narcissist parents, learned dysfunctional adaptive behaviors, learned narcissist behaviors and learned narcissist avoiding behaviors it can get quite convoluted.
I believe my ex has both. I have adhd and probably autism. I blame him now but for over a decade I just took all the blame, gaslighting, and manipulation, then he cheated on me repeatedly. I excused the behavior because of his autism for 17 years and finally ended it. Def have been looking for content JUST like this. As a neurodivergent person myself, I have rules and I don’t break them if I can help it.
Just broke up with my bf who was on the spectrum too and I miss him so much, we might be able to work things out but if not I wanna find another autistic guy to date, I just don’t know where to look :/
I was diagnosed with Asperger's and ADHD in the mid 1980s as a child. And it is quite interesting how far we've come to understand it. I do have to say one thing about your last point. My ex-wife is a covert narcissist, and would get very frustrated when I would explain my actions instead of just apologizing to her. She would then go into a rage and the next thing I know I was being "punished" IE silent treatment, physical aggression, verbal abuse ect. As I became more aware of what was happening, she would blame me for something the shoe herself was doing. And after a certain point I noticed it right away, and at that point shift the blame back onto her. So we can learn not to take all responsibility for the situation that we are in. Now she is the only person that I've ever done that with. I just thought that that information would be useful. I loved the video, keep up the great work
Narcisism is a personality disorder.
Is people mistaking autistics for narcissists a reason why autistics don't have as many friends do you think???
that, plus reclusive behaviour plus 'dey weirdos' lol
That might be a small part of it, but most of it has to do with massively different "cultures" of social interaction between allistics and autistics. The autistic style of communication is highly offensive and rude in allistic culture. Likewise allistic way of communicating is highly confusing to autistic people as much of the communication is nonverbal, subtle social cues that autistic people often don't notice
I definitely agree with all if this, tho I did want onto add for the fourth point. Narsasitic people will have a variety of personalities to get want they want and to manipulate someone's view of them as a person for whatever reason they have decided on. Where a autistic person can also have a variety of personalities in a way but it's out of survival instead. I'm always a open book and I just am who I am. But in the same hand, being a autistic raised as a girl (im nb), I have had to mask my entire life, in the home and outside of it. I'm still who I am but I have had to hide and suppress maaaany aspects of myself as well as adopt others from the people surrounding me. I know from your vids your obviously fully aware of masking haha, but just wanted to add on that we can also have a chameleon affect tho it is out of survival and having been shown again and again the parts of ourselves which are very unwanted by the world and people surrounding us and learn to hide them out of survival vs to manipulate and take control of a situation xP
Well and succinctly said!
Masking is a survival strategy and can be much like wearing costumes out in the world. It is not from a malicious intent to fool people. Costumes can help to facilitate social interactions for those of us who are doomed to social awkwardness. Might as well steer into the skid! Who we are is still the same, just a different mask (wig, costume).
Also narcs have an almost complete lack of insight as well as a scattered sense of self in which they deny their inner insecurities to themselves. Deep down in their core content, they have an extreme sense of shame. On surface content it doesn’t manifest even to themselves
My sister recently died, and her partner with Asperger’s really doesn’t seem to care. He is acting more like a 13 year old boy released from school after a hard day than a 70 year old man. They were a couple for 20 years. He keeps wanting to do things “not involved with Louisa’s memory“ and talking about seeking a new partner. He repeats this to me, her sister, and to her daughter, and she has been dead only three months. She was the dominant one in the relationship but otherwise he never got anything done. What do you think?
I work in disability and have learned a lot and still have a lot to learn about the nature autism.
I know there are common issues around perception, self perception, world perception and the perception of others that some can perceive as selfishness so while I have never thought autism or asbergers and narcissisim were the same thing, I know a guy, not a client but a coworker who has asbergers and I can testify that they can most certainly coexist in the same person but why not?
By GOD I can attest to that. Hoo-EEE boy-howdy! This guy. WOW.
So I haven’t met a lot of Aspie folks but I’m learning that there is a perception out there that they are self absorbed or selfish.
(and this particular guy isn’t helping😂)
Its very interesting that you say that about Narcissistic personality disorder. I'm pretty sure borderlines create personalities aswell not because they are trying to control people but because they genuily have had some injury to the self so they have lost themselves due to the trauma.
As a former borderline myself, that sounds right. I have been accused of manipulating alot of times, but the thing is; my feelings are so strong in those situations that i am not able to manipulate. To manipulate someone you have to have some self control and be able to think clearly. I know i would come across better and would have kept my relationships longer if i was able to manipulate. When im calm, i know what would work, but im not able to. I also cannot tell how to "just be myself" in alot of situations, i do not know what that is. I try to behave in a way that will not make people angry with me, and thats that.
(Some of this do not apply anymore tho, as i am no longer diagnosed with borderline as i have gotten much better - but i can still identify with alot of it and remember how it used to be)
So one could have BOTH AND narcissism, especially the lesser known type "neglectful narcissism"?
I'm subscribed to the MedCircle channel where I found Dr Ramani, then I was watching the video on her chanbekabout narcicissm and autism and yours was recommended. So now I'm subscribed to your channel too!
I suffer with really bad anxiety and depression with my Autism
So, how does this relate to atypical autism presentation (called girl autism sometimes)? Because I have no desire to manipulate anyone or blame anyone. But when I get really frustrated with my communication issues I do get frustrated and sometimes angry. Like, “I’ve explained this 5 different ways, why are you still doing this thing I can’t stand.” Kinda thing. Yes, I mostly internalize the blame, but when calm or when frustrated enough I DO know it’s not all my fault either, it is partly their fault. Or it’s no ones fault.
I also feel like I have more awareness than some autistics about my emotions, I don’t think that makes me narcissistic though. And then, what is the comparison with Oppositional Defiance Disorder and autism vs narcissism? My oldest seemed to have ODD and ASD when he hit puberty, before that he was very sweet. And I know it had to do with his stress and sense of justice getting mixed up with his all or nothing and black and white thinking. And a lot of why all that went down that way is because I was constantly ignored when I asked for an autism assessment for him, so we didn’t know what was going on at all at the time. So, I still don’t consider it narcissism with him, even though he got quite angry when things didn’t go well and he began to turn his anger out instead of inward, blaming others instead of himself for things that, often, were no one’s actual fault. I still find the differences hazy on all this and think it’s all too easy to get an incorrect and possibly very demeaning feeling diagnosis. Makes me sad.
A narcissist favorite target 😥 to say ur speaking of the vary ones they vary much enjoy picking on the most narcissist favorite one's to gaslight 😥 they think they can get away with it but some how it dose. All come back to the narcissist.
Look up the PDA part of the spectrum, its still not diagnosed or recognised but explains so much for our family xx
someone on the spectrum has gaslighted me...just saying. Let's not paint aspies like they are all good people or people that don't have abusive tactics.
What I learned from this video is that I may in fact have both... I'm so lucky 😢
It's really not that simple. If you're not happy about having narcissism, then most likely you have "learned traits" and the good news is that you can discover why you do what you do and then learn alternate ways to get what you want in life but being more mindful of how you can affect others. Your immediate feelings are indicators of what is true. A narcissist literally doesn't care about how they affect others which can also be a mindless thought for autistic people but not in a malicious way because the degree a narcissist will go to get what they want is to the point an autistic person won't go.
I would just like to say thanks for uploading this informative video. I'm on the autistic spectrum. I have been accused of being a narcissists. I don't tell people I'm on the spectrum. They ask way to many questions and look at you differently too. I have had the pleasure of meeting other autistic people. Some people think we all the same. When in fact we are all just like everyone else. Different likes and dislikes and so on. Anyways just wanted to say again thanks so much for the video!! And have an awesome day 😀 😎!!
Hi, it could be helpful for you and other people if you talk about being autistic because they will understand you better and stop taking things personally and will forgive you if they felt hurt by you.
Can you do a video about managing the desire to obsessively talk about the same subject? I am driving people crazy. Also having a hard time developing any new interests so there's a limited scope of what to talk about, and I only have 2 people I can usually talk to so they are tired of hearing it.
Whaaaat!? There is similarity in them?! That's why I sometimes think I am narcissist
My son has Asperger and never takes responsibility
for his actions. He blames other people and finds them/life unfair. Why?
Alexithymia
Okay you knocked this one out of the park! Well done!!
My 12yr old has Aspergers, ADHD, and Dyslexia. He never takes responsibility for anything. I don’t think he is trying to manipulate the situation like a narcissist would to lay blame. I think he really doesn’t think anything is his fault. I kinda wonder if it’s ODD (however never been diagnosed). Thoughts?
Humble opinion: ASD people have extreme difficulty understandig social rules and social behaviors. Trying to explain "blame" in terms of social rules is a terribly bad idea. Instead try to explain "responsability" in specific, rigid rules, for example, pretend that you are "the bank" and explain "responsability" of requesting, receiving, paying and failure to pay a loan (obviously, simplify the terms for his age).
@@maximilianrpm2927 agreed
could be a behavior he is masking with that was picked up from someone else.
@@saturationstation1446 Yes. My ex was very sturn in his discipline when my son was younger.
I want to thank you so much from the depths of my heart, for all you do.
You've given me answers to questions I've had for a really long time. I have combined ADHD.
NPD runs in my family, and my ex husband shows so many of the signs of NPD, but is not diagnosed.
Because of this, I've been so very worried about the mental health of my children.
My eldest child is not his biologically, but has suffered so much trauma because of him... both directly, and indirectly.
We (my daughter and I) are setting an appointment tomorrow to get an assessment to clarify/verify where she is on the spectrum!
... I'm so grateful for all you do.
I was undiagnosed combined ADHD for 39 years.
I can only imagine what you've been through...a better image than most people, as ADHD is kinda like watered down diet Autism, ... but even still...
You are a warrior I'd wanna fight next to on the battlefield of life, I'll tell you that for free!
You are amazing and inspiring and have given hope and peace to a mother's troubled heart.
That make you a hero.
One of MY heroes!
Thank you so much!
From what I hear they're a all mental health issues. Just different degrees, severities "spectrums." Just like we can't separate out body, mind and Spirit. Many are connected of sorts, and likely "a mix" of both etc. The brain is a very complex and complicated thing and trauma plays a MAJOR roll as well. CPTSD is part of the umbrella of neurological issues. Good to know we're much more than this human brain🧠🌅🙏🕊️
Hey, I dont usually have anything to say but you definition of narcissism is way off. I'm a psychologist, have worked with many. The main characteristic is a lack of empathy. People are tools, you grease the tool it works better ( to get your supply). The need to control others, develops in childhood, is based on fear of abandonment or not being seen = nor being taken care of. They are incurable ln e at this pt in time.
Thank you for adding this info!!
I need to see your degree and real dace or your full of crap with a phd from youtube university.
I was diagnosed with autism at age 14, I am now 23 and I am convinced I was misdiagnosed, I think im just a massive narc lol
I got misdiagnosed and ended after corona up with Anxiety and Depression according to my doctor but I never say that I have Depression I call it Burn Out and I didn’t had it until 2019 after I didn’t had enough time to relax because my workplace where I was before did not gived me enough vacation and my mom died in 2015 she was depressed and my father has ADHD and acts narcissistic and like a psychopath
I feel like aspies are the opposite of narcissists... Narcissism is pure selfishness, aspies tend to care about other people
How do you show your care? I try to understand the distinction better.
Autistics can definitely be selfish .
I know plenty of people on the spectrum who feel shame from not being completely at ease or in sync with the world and get turned off massively by shutting down and then deflecting or projecting their triggers from all the stress in overthinking to another person. Aspergers/Autism doesn't mean personality/character is all perfectly kind and good/confused/naiive... there are people on the spectrum who love pushing all the buttons on people for fun to see reactions and bluntly degrade, speak down to someone in disdain because they themselves feel different. or when things dont go exactly their way in the specific way, throw massive temper tantrums not knowing how to regulate. some can even get violent verbally or physically. the black and white thinking and jumping conclusions and being totally stubbron is another trait. i know another scenario when someone had been shamed for doing something competely wrong again and again when they're young bc of their aspergers.... then go mimic by speaking exactly like how they were spoken to in a situation that doesn't match the occasion. while we can understand why someone does xyz, give empathy towards their inability to have EQ, people KNOW when theyre doing something wrong to a certain extent and should take full responsibility and accountability.
Your #4, single personality in Asperger's is in conflict with masking in Asperger's, especially in girls and in very high functioning males.
Being Autistic is not an Amazing experience. Especially when you don't get a diagnosis, help, and literally caused generations of trauma. WTF is wrong with people?
Reading about autism, I have no doubt my friend falls in that category. But some of the things he does would fall in to being a narcissist. Does things that are hurtful to women that he is supposed to be in relationship with, not sure if he doesn’t realize how hurtful it is, or he’s being a narcissist. He’ll be in a relationship with one woman and have no problem with dating another but not letting her know about the person he’s been with for three or four years. He honestly doesn’t think there’s anything wrong with this. And gets his feelings hurt if you question him about it, trying to explain how bad this is hurting the other person. And of course, he’s very Chris Matic, will help anyone that needs it, give a person the last shirt off his back. They are both very good friends of mine and I don’t know how to help.
Just forget the lebel.this is definitely toxic. Getting upset when point their bullshit.
I don’t really feel very confident in myself. I feel as if I’m to blame for a lot of issues. And I can be quite hard on myself.
Is there any advice or support for people dealing with someone who potentially has Aspergers but is expressing narcisstic traits?
My ex boyfriend was like this, when I called him out for being "toxic" and manipulative (which I did calmly and tactfully) he refused to take any accountability and blamed it on aspergers. So I simply cut ties with him, as cold as that sounds, but I needed to take care of my emotional well-being. I don't know your situation and who this person is to you, but my advice would be to be cordial and kind but try to limit interaction or emotional attachment if you can. There's no cure to narcissism, unfortunately.
my voilent ex partner is Narcissistic Convert with Learning Disorder with other mental issues with myself and my children on spectrum it was scary and terrifing 16 years it took to get heard and get protection because of peoples misunderstandings and with him and his illness things got complex but now slowing sorting out it self out 16 year battle but praying there is light. Legal systems and spectrum disorders there is issues in this field as people in legal systems misunderstand differences between nerological and mental health. you have to go through tests through there system to see if you are capable to deal with a case and take instructions from whether you could answer questions to go forward maybe could be a next video to help others that maybe in this field
This video was really informative. I know a couple of people with Asperger’s who can communicate their feelings really well (they are female).
What’s the difference between masking and switching personalities?
The intention. Most narcists want to manipulate what you see in them. They want attention, being liked and dominate the relationships. Autists just try to blend in or communicate in a was neurotypical persons Unverstand.
Masking is like mimicking a physical trait of someone else to create similarities in social behavior. Personality change is the switching of a personality into someone completely different.
@@marciebeal2 my voice usually just tries to mimic theirs, I can’t control it haha
Thanks for this useful video
Autism is mainly caused by inflammation in the brain and gut. It is epigenetic so has both genetic and environmental causes. The primary environmental cause is childhood vaccines, which contain aluminium and traces of mercury and can cause serious brain and gut inflammation in some babies and children who are unable to cope with these and other toxins. Often due to the MTHFR genetic mutation which means they are more easily depleted of glutathione and unable to detox. So Its not usually caused by incorrect ‘wiring’ of the brain - its brain inflammation and the particular area of damage will affect what autistic characteristics the child will develop. Eg if the damage is primarily in the left hemisphere they will likely become right hemisphere dominant and vice versa. A study by Chris Exley looking at the brains of deceased autistic people found the highest concentrations of aluminium ever seen in the human brain. Aluminium, particularly the type found in vaccines is not the benign substance we have been told it is.
But yet you wont talk about the link to people with autism and drug and alcohol addiction
missing link
what is the link though outside of obsessive interests?
@@rabeechowdhury rejection anxiety,depression, and additive personality people with autism are very highly susceptible to addiction of drugs and alcohol because of these trates.
@@maximilianrpm2927 already replied. Aspie world needs to make a video and addressing these issue not just do tips and signs of to know if u have autism.
@@anthonywyattStylist there are plenty of people who are autistic who also have ADHD and a much larger margine of those who are autistic that are susceptible to addiction have ADHD than not. To me an addiction of anything but weed is counterintuitive to someone who is autistic but doesn't have ADHD cause they're already overstimulated.
People with ASD blame NTs all the time.
ikr, spending 5 seconds on twitter immediately debunks this entire video
I have two questions - Elon Musk is a self proclaimed aspy . Do you believe it ?
I recently saw a documentary video by his first wife - who describes in great detail how Elon had no capacity for human compassion ; that he was self absorbed in his businesses.
She claimed he had nothing to do w. her or their 5 children.
That he was ice cold & calculating.
> Is that the way most aspy persons operate ? Very exciting to be around but unable to connect on an emotional level.
> If aspy’s are uncomfortable w. their own feelings, how can they possibly cope w. the feelings of others ??
Sounds more like a narc to me!
Some are like that. Others are not. Everyone's different.
I am ADHD and we have some behaviors in common with narcissists such as monologuing... Narcissists love to monologue because they feel in control, they feel like they dominated and that everyone is under their feet... ADHD monologues because we are really bad at paying attention and we don't have proper socialization or proper social skills or perception.
Would a personality disorder make sure of being ASD out of fear of hurting others? I was just told by a doctor who I never met that I am not ASD, I have a personality disorder.
Am still confused about narcissism and aspergers. Know someone who constantly blames others for ptsd yet I'd say it's aspergers
Hi,
(update: sorry if I come across as arrogant - which I am Lol - I was tired when I posted this lengthy stuff and after rereading I see that it needs some editing. So, yes my comment is somewhat offensive because I am tired of NPD handled as a moral disorder and about the web using it in antagonistic ways to promote one's self-image as 'good' by opposition to the evil NPD. Also, I would personally not take the liberty to talk about ASD because clearly I don't know enough. We need to be careful not to be judgmental of one another. We are Mankind. Narcissists are a nightmare for partners. It's not the point. The point is that we have a personality disorder and the abuse derives from it. I don't mean this as an excuse).
I agree about the difference between ASD and NPD in terms of the first one being a neurodevelopmental disorder and the second a mental disorder. For the rest, your view of NPD is biased or even erroneous which is the norm. even among psychiatrists. Unless one has specifically studied personality disorders, one has no choice, but to be biased.
So about everybody's view of NPD is biased and worse NPD is now the label used to qualify every type of abuse in a relationship.
Now, the word 'narcissist' had a negative connotation to start with (being sefl-preoccupied, self-centered is not indeed very apreciated) but we now face a real vilifying propaganda of this label where NPD the root cause of evil on earth.
I can expand on this craze which is much more dangerous and evil than narcissism as a personality disorder. To make it short, fraudulous experts ae exploiting the pain, rage and anger and resentment experienced by people who dated an NPD. Indeed, we can't make it as partners, we don't know it, the abuse is real and can only escalate but all of this mainly happens between the narcissist and their partner and neither the partner nor the narcissist know it can't work.
Now, the problem is that we have a personality disorder and are not aware of it. Grandiose have no clue that they aren't the mature and wise guy they think the are and vulnerables, like me, know something is off, are depressed, manipulative towards the partner but not scheeming or cunning. We attack the couple very hard and don't know where this comes from. And actually we hate ourselves for having nasty thought, devaluing and so on and not being able to accept the love. All this is unconscious.
So self-proclaimed experts lie about NPD and sell 'victims' hatred and the reassurance that they are not the 'evil' ones.
Victims who see themselves as such have their own issues they are scared to face so need the narcissist to be the evil one. And this is how you have a total craze.
I am a vulnerable narcissist.
Actually it's the most common form, but due to a long-lasting confusion between ASPDs and NPDs in terms of similar behavioral patterns (acting entitled, seeking admiration...) the grandiose type is really the one described in the DSM to the detriment of the vulnerable type.
And on top of that the DSM arrogant NPD guy is a mix of a grandiose NPD and a grandiose ASPD (a relic from the past). I hope the DSM kicks him out on its next edition.
Grandiose are really controlling towards the partner and are scared of being manipulated by them. They have a script and expert the partner to executute it. When the partner deviates (and you only deviate), they are mad and discard you. They rarely go out of their zone of comfort and when they do risk themselves into their partner's world, they become awfully nasty, attacking ... depreciate the partner or their friends.... When asked to explain, they gaslight. They cannot admit their emotions and flaws and mostly their emotional needs which are those of a child needing a mother to stand by and applaud. They have zero consciousness about that.
Now my type is not better.
But all this is to say that grandiose narcissists, the ones you were referring to, have a pathological need for admiration. PATHOLOGICAL. I personally don't really understand what it is all about. I figured out a whole lot by dating one but cannot totally grab this need to be at the center of attention. It is disagreable for others but it is a matter of survival to them. This I know for sure.
SO I WAS TRIGGERED by your description of narcissists as MANIPULATING people for their GAIN. No, narcissist do not manipulate for their GAIN. Somehow, whether we are talking about coverts or overts, the manipulation is barely conscious and is implicitly a matter of survival.
Your description is the layman view of NPD. We suffer a great deal. I rarely say it. We made a choice as babies because we thought life was against us.
Trump is not an NPD, nor is Megan Markle.
Famous NPDs were vulnerables and died before 30 in general. Amy Winehous. Kurt Cobain.
I couldm't identify a famous overt (grandiose). They seek admiration within their circle mainly.
Ted Bundy was a malignant NPD. Maybe just a regular NPD who turned bad. I don't know.
So we have a hell of a life. We are not immoral at all. On the contrary.
You can't talk about NPD in terms of behaviors or presume things based on RUclips narratives. These guys are all frauds and make money on our back. Your guy would be a grandiose sociopath. But I hate to throw ASPDs under the bus either because most often have stronger values than the norm.
RUclips coaches have done such a great job, that now everyone thinks they know who is a narcissist and who isn't. Check DSMV-TR (pdf online), old version section II and MOSTLY dimensional version section III. Unfortunately the vulnerable type is barely mentioned.
Now, People are not labels. We are not in a competition. This is narcissistic in itself.
Is it narcissism if you create personas for the soul reason of fitting in? I don't want to manipulate anyone I just don't understand most social norms and want to portray self confidence around other people so around my coworkers I try to talk more often and act more together so I don't come off as the weird quiet guy, which I guess I am.
Nope, that’s just masking. Or at least an element of it. I always felt that way. I thought of myself as a chameleon before I even knew that term was used commonly to refer to masking.
I had the same question omg, I felt all of this
Well done Dan, keep going ❤❤ love your videos
Yes really struggling with my feelings
Omg i just found your channel you're so cuuuute 🥺
Nicest eyes
One thing I noticed is I attract narcissts like a magnet and metal. Do other Autistics have this problem?
Manipulative PDs feed off emotions. We're a good source lol
I enjoy watching your videos. I have been on the waiting list to be assessed for Autism next week and really nervous. What advice would you give far an adult like me who is to be assessed ans the actual assessment day?
But the Lord said to Samuel, “Do not look at his appearance or at his physical stature, because I have refused him. For the Lord does not see as man sees; for man looks at the outward appearance, but the Lord looks at the heart.”
1 Samuel 16:7 - NKJV
Tall people, am I rite???
I’m curious about the personality thing. Because Masking seems a lot like having different personas for different situations. Since female aspies tend to be better at masking, is there a high occurrence of misdiagnosis between women with autism and women with NPD?
There is between ASD and BPD because of the emotional dysregulation (don't know how high though). I have also heard of it being misdiagnosed with bi polar too.
The only thing is, ASP people do often use manipulative without really understanding that it's wrong or maybe not even knowing they're doing it and furthermore ASP usually do display narcissistic behaviors. It's just caused by neurological make up. Still makes relationships really unhealthy. Not really sure how anyone navigates that. My marriage is ending 😔
Women aspies can appear different when they mask... Giving the slight appearance of being different around different settings... Internally they are the same but outwardly they appear to be socially adapting.
Honestly this video seems too generalized. For instance you say aspies have trouble recognizing their emotions, but I read that only 50% of autists have alexithymia (the condition you are describing). You don't have to be a narcissist to blame others for things. It's a common behavior when you are immature and angry at the world. But if it's insanely excessive (unable to ever admit you are wrong) then yea it's a more serious mental problem. I think it's not rare for aspies to be angry at society or feel like they are not at fault, that they are just different, and it is society that is the problem. And to be honest aspies sometimes have good reason to blame others. They are often unfairly treated due to not fitting into NT norms.
Well damn, I feel emotions super intensely sometimes but have trouble explaining and identifying them. Maybe I'm aspie and narc. Idek anymore
Alexithymia
Thanks so much. I really needed some info on this.
Great subject, need more on this.
So, I've had a couple of people close to me, who were/are in a relationship with someone claiming they act the way the do because they are Autistic. (One of them self diagnosed) However, in my opinion, the traits of these two guys matched narcissism more than autism, (except for being charming I guess.) For example: they are controlling(-always high-jacking their partners phone,) argumentative, (calling people evil for disagreeing with them,) self projecting, (if you tried to call them out on their shit they would accuse you of prideful and self righteous.) They were very smart/talented in certain areas, so I can see the autistic thing, but that can't be all that explains their boundary pushing behavior right? (Texting/calling until they get an answer regardless of the time of day.) I guess I'm asking if a narcissist would be manipulative enough to use Autism as an excuse? Has this happened to anyone else? I've seen it twice now. I should say I've also known people on the spectrum that don't come off as narcissistic, just blunt and a little socially unaware sometimes.
Iv put blame on other but thats because they actually did what ever it is they did but it always gets swhich back to me that im selfish am the one to blam im crazy totally manipulated and gaslighted
You forgot about masking in ASD. You may or may not know that person. It's difficult to really be yourself with ASD especially for women.
My father is a narcissistic but maybe a psychopath too . I myself have Anxiety and Burn Out since Corona
We were all manipulated by the world leaders
I’ve wondered this about someone in my life and I’m trying to figure out if it’s one or the other. What does comorbidity of the two look like? I’m not sure how to handle interactions and the takeaway, I always leave feeling confused.
My Go-To-Guide for narcissistic behaviour is Dr Ramani here on RUclips so that's one place you can start. Good luck and take care!
The last couple years in my relationship with a narc has been confusing. Even when i don’t say anything at all, he comes bashing me with things from 10yrs ago. For that reason my communication turned down to almost zero with this man. My life, job and experiences, i can not share with this person anymore. Our Son is the only thing keeping us together. I have no love for this person anymore, i can’t leave because i know he will make my life feel like Hell.
Thank you 😔 this helps.
I wonder, do you think narcissists are drawn to people with autism?
Also I can't get a diagnosis and I'll be 40 this year. There's so many road blocks here and me not being able to take care of myself is perpetuating my further demise. I'm am so torn and can't get any professional help. Any suggestions? Sorry for info dumping. Feel free to not know how to answer me.
I have d.i.d and autism so idk but i dont think im a narcissist but i keep getting called one