Let's see if we can get this NVIDIA 4090 Cable to MELT!
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- Опубликовано: 7 фев 2025
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I have a hard time believing AMD decided to not use it now a month from release(at most). It must have been a design choice early on.
It 100% was but people are just looking for excuses to call this a dunk on Nvidia when it really has nothing to do with them. People really think AMD is last minute making AIBs completely change their power delivery a month out
It may be both. Suspicions that turned out to be truth later. And preparation made behind scenes "just in case"
They could have seen the plug and had a feeling it was going to be a problem later on, hence the reason they didn't use it. Heck Intel doesn't even use it on their new GPU's either.
Absolutely. If launch is next month, cards are already assembled and ready to ship. They didn't just decide right now to go "lol whoops that connector sucks, recall all the finished product waiting to go out, and redesign and remanufacture all the PCBs to remove it!"
They never planned to use it in the first place. This is only coincidentally a dunk on Nvidia because the connector turned out to be rubbish. If the connector had been fine, AMD might have been dunking on themselves by using the old connectors that some would see as outdated.
But of course, the AMD fanboys are being exhausting, because as far as exhausting fanbases go, AMD's is definitely one of the worst.
Yea it'd take a while to replace if they were already in production. Alternative they could announce a delayed date during the "launch" without us knowing any better x3
dear cable mod: thank you! no seriously I've used your products in the past, I built my own sleeves in the past, you guys are the best. I am so glad that you took this issue very seriously, for consumers, and for you. it's crazy to think that people will go with aftermarket cables because they are safer now! it's crazy, but it's a branding coup, and you guys deserve credit for it.
whatever man put it simply i dont like their ways and thats it, everything taken into considerations mainly whether it affects my health or not bcs thats whats matter to me, apparently not for some people but thats okay
Best way to figure out your side panel compatibility with any cable is to find out what your maximum air cooler height is for your case. Find out your GPU height and minus the maximum cooler height and you'll see how much cable bend room you'll have or to see if the CableMod 90 degree connector fits.
The problem is there aren't many cases wide enough...
@@StoneAgedGaming True all the O11 cases even struggle with the side panel closing and other cases don't have the space for GPU length. Like for example I can only go with under 345mm max length for my card.
Ok, using this method, for the O11 AIR MINI, the max GPU width while using the CableMod 90 degree adapter is 146.8mm.
Hi Jay, you also should test it within the build. The adapter will touch the side panel in most cases and the side panel will apply quite some force on the terminal and contact points increasing contact resistance due to misalignment.
Put it in an SFF PC and watch it burn.
The 4090 is the size of a SFF
Exactly, while it's not needed in a build he should have tried to zip tie it down extremely bent to create constant pressure rather than just bending it for a second or 2
@@MrAllthatgoodstuff You can't put a graphics card in a PC that's smaller than the graphics card is.....
@@aaronthomas6155 they never said put it in a case where the gpu doesnt fit...
409p fe definitely fits in sff in some sff cases.
I think it might be a good idea to recreate this in a case. as a case would have a warmer internal temperature.
you also have more constant stress or just less space in the case
i agreed
It's not the card that's melting. It's the power draw, and surface area of the contacts that's causing the melting, not ambient temperature. You need thicker contacts for more amperage. If the cable or contact delivering current is too small, it gets hot. This is why it's so important to plug in connectors firmly and correclty. If it's not making proper contact, it will get hot.
Steve had an issue with Linus the last time they tried to use a thermal camera through tempered glass lol
@@itnearu You can't just ignore the fact that a higher ambient temperature is going to have a factor. And for these tests to be accurate you need to recreate as close to as possible the same conditions as a normal user would have.
We are Teclab and made the tests (yoi called us Galax).
We run more than than 25, considering more than 12 minutes overload (rising 300W per step), and reached 127 Celsius.
Neither connector or cable melted, and it's still working.
Then we installed bad mounting (bad assembly, both horizontal and vertical, then temperature increasing over the time, what can cause damage and melt.
About 150 min testing alive.
Thanks
using an open test bench for this may be difficult to reproduce results. need to find out which cases are being used along with the other variables like jay was saying.
The glass transition temp of the nylon used in the connector is probably 80C. Once it reaches that temp, the connector loses its strength and the pins have the potential to move out of place causing further temp increases until the point where it catches fire.
Also keep in mind that the connector will get much hotter in a warm case than an open testbench
The spec for the connector is supposedly rated for up to 105'C - its entirely possible that materials being used in some cables are not up to the standard.
It's also glass fibre nylon, PA12. Same stuff I use in my 3d printer, it's glass transition temp is more like 130. I think all this heat is just related to the card conducting heat into the wires. The 1st test the card was entirely cold
@@SquishyThing it's actually slightly better than the stuff used in 3d printers because the fibre grain is much longer but I doubt it would deform at all until it's about to catch fire
@@infernaldaedra It depends on the filament, each one you buy has listed the length of the fibres. Some of them are even longer. Rn I have a carbon fibre one with 1 continus strand of CF that runs through the whole roll. Markforged do one similar with glass fibre. Most consumer grade use a very low % of CF or glass fibre as the nozzles wear out fast, mine has a hardened steel one so I usually buy the industrial stuff that's nearly 30% glass fibre
this, and more, like, if ppl bend, it streses the pins, it moves them, makes the connection surface less,
is the design of that small plug
Few things to note:
-You're using an open bench, so there's less buildup of heat as would be found inside a case.
-You were only bending the wires at the end of the connector and NOT putting a side load on those connectors, which includes the pins. If you had a side panel pushing on the connector, that itself would apply some load to the connector, increasing the chances that it could start to run away.
The main issue you get melting in these connectors isn't due to the wire itself, but due to the resistance within the male and female pin not having enough surface contact to transfer that amount of current. Resistance is a function of the gauge of the wire and just as a thicker gauge wire can handle more load, less surface area connecting two pins together would mean it would reduce the load it can take before getting too hot due to resistance.
Once the resistance and heat builds up, it runs away as the heat increases the resistance therefore making it hotter, creating more resistance, etc. It effectively becomes a runaway fire hazard once it goes over a certain threshold.
The weakest part of all of these setups is usually the pins connectors. The wires generally have enough current capacity that this would almost never happen to the wire itself before it happened to the pins where it connects.
The pins are simply the weakest point in these situations due to their small size and also the ability for them to be bent/angled therefore reducing the surface contact between them.
A bit rambly, but just my thoughts on the situation.
Exactly, the problem is at the pins which can be deformed when mated and submitted to lateral stress, thus reducing contact and making the resistance higher, which causes heat 👍
Nailed it. Well put.
The issue with the connectors melting is most likely a pin fitment issue. A slightly too loose female pin connected to a male pin will have a slight air gap. At high current draw, this air gap will cause excess resistance which will generate excess heat and you will end up with melted connector. This failure is most likely attributed to cheap connectors.
I'd like to see this post pinned to the top of the comments!! Great explanation, and I'm glad you did it because I was looking to see so I don't have to. Great point!
Does anyone remember how badly Micro USB did this in the first gen?
Lucky they werent pushing power or everyone would've been screwed 😂
You should try to bend the cable after you plug it and not before, that way the pins inside the connector may stick out of socket a little on one side and recreate the issue.
This
I was going to say the same thing.
Don't you know it's all for show?
Pretty sure it is a way to go.
1. Install GPU
2. Plug power cable
3. Press it with side panel
Either side force deforming socket loosens connection between pins or they are pulled away by cables.
@@iBolitN But you forget its Jay the gorilla, might aswell get a monkey to test it!!!!!!!!
At this rate 5 years from now we will be plugging our GPUs into the 220 line that we use in our basements to run our clothes dryers. "Hey man! I can't game right now. It's laundry day." "I gotta wait until my clothes are dry."
dry ur clothes using the sun, quick and simple, well, not quick, just simple
@@energetic0oak329 Cloudy days be like:
@@StickyKeys187 xD
nah, the cables are gonna come with fans pre-installed
@@StickyKeys187 ever hear of gravity?
The heat problem is going to be tied to the surface area of the connection between the connector pins (and the conductor size themselves). As wire size goes down, resistance goes up and a video card trying to pull high amps through a connection that isn't making good contact will heat up fast.
It is bad connection at the connecting surface that causes overheating and fire hasard... In my van that also uses 12v and same 50A you normally use big lugs that is tighened down HARD with big solid bolts and nuts + thick vires. DC 12 and 24v is notorious for creating hot spots and fires if the contact is just a little bit bad. . .
@@a64738 ha! Good point, in my old caravan from 1983 it's exactly the same. If the voltage is down, amps go up for same to archive the same stuff. Cause power has to keep the same more or less.
At a first look i thought man, this is overkill in terms of wire thickness 1/4 and bolted down with screws to the fuseboxes and with very Bick conductors)
Learned alot about power and currents working with 12 V in the caravan and this stuff applies also to our beloved gaming PCs
that's an absurdly common criticism i've seen of the Ultra High Voltage Bullshit 69420 connector they're trying to push.
It's like everything you just said is grade school level electrical engineering.
Funny that.
Yup, one time we tried to jump start a car and the wire we were using was a bit thinner than it should've been, and god did that stuff get hot..lol, life of working at a salvage yard though, we were always doing random stuff.
How are those tiny pins ever gonna be sufficient, even with a good connection?
Video Request: Trying the cable in different popular pc cases to see how aggressive the bend has to be to fit the side panel of the case. Could definitely show the differences between how NVIDIAs adapter fits VS the cable that cablemod, Corsair, ect supply. I am debating on doing an upgrade to 40 series but this cable is definitely making me hold off until this is figured out.
Its very tight in a Corsair A4000D which is not a small case by any means.
That sounds like something GN should do, they do case reviews and have the collection of popular cases while Jay has a limited selection because he doesn't do allot of case reviews and half of his can be considered open test bench more than case or SFF.
I have a Phanteks p500a. Easy fit. 4090 is a Beast.
According to igorsLAB the problem is inside the 12vhpwr connector itself, especially the solderpoints and far too thin bridges. You would have seen it after cutting that side open! Other than that the standard itself isn't the problem so most native 12vhpwr cables from power supplies seem to be safe (haven't looked into cablemod). So it lies inside the adapter only
I haven't seen cable mod use bridges before, so it looks as though there is only one problem manufacturer for now; nVidia.
Even cheap ass adaptor cables (third party cables like cable mod, but at "unbelievably" low prices, and with dodgy descriptions) could be more robust and safer than nvidia's.
I bet AMD will have a field day with this.
According to recent reports, this appears to be a narrative for damage control
@@LiveBenchmarks It's looking a lot more like the socket on the cards. I'm just glad l can't justify that much cash on a graphics card, so I can just watch the story slowly unfold.
Like I mentioned in your last video, I don't think it's the bending of the cable but rather the rounding/ovaling/enlarging of the female side of the adapters and cables which can be done when plugging it in or bending the cables after it's been plugged in.
Yes, I agree. Especially if there is constant stress from being smashed by a side panel with heating and cooling cycles causing further deformation and travel of the contacts.
Jepp the wires are big enough in cross section to handle the current. The problem is the lead on female to male connection. There seems to be not enough material so the crossection becomes to bottleneck e.g. resistor which then heats up and or if the connection is only partial even sparks will happen. And the later seem to be corresponding with the photos of the plebbit post. A melting or partial melting would just reform the material.
cablemod genuinely sounds like its going to be a lifesaver
Other than people who don't know better will think the cablemod cable is designed wrong because it won't allow a bend close enough to the card to allow a side panel, if the person wants to put a side panel on...ie,like normal.
@Shionne I think the easiest will be for them to make a proper stronger cable and them them out for free
I think the corsair one is fine too
NVidia is not thorough enough to check this, other companies have to do it for them.
Nvidia said if you use a cable mod cable it voids your warranty
There is major flaw in this test i noticed. Its on open air test bench, while users have them in closed cases that can have bad airflow. Connector is then surronded by heat produced by CPU and GPU. That may cause it to fail.
I think the most common "bend config" will be putting it in a regular atx case and trying to force the side panel back on over the adapter cable. If they don't know that much they also might not know how many fans to use in the case if they did manage to close it.
Hi jay, I know others have said this but I think testing in a case would possibly make a difference. I studied in automotive electrical systems and occasionally build custom harnesses and one thing I am aware of is location of high draw connection in relation to their surroundings can make quite a difference. For example if this test was recreated within a case then what you may find is a much higher increase due to the lack of ventilation. In addition to this over a longer period heat reflecting off the case itself could also increase temps beyond a safe limit. Another scenario and a one I have run into in PC building is fans creating, basically dead zone where heat is trapped by the actual airflow creating a low pressure zone within a case.
TBF he did mention needing more info from the various people this has happened to in order to recreate the conditions the other 4090's were under.
The "DEAD ZONE" of AIR is VERY plausible and if you even look at NFPA 70 codes in relation to air space in conduits or the like, it specifically refers to this. It doesn't say Dead Zone,all meaning is about thermal rise in areas like this. And the warmer the AREA of Operation the WIRE is IN,the more DE-RATED the current capacity of ANY wire will have ! NO ONE has ever talked about that yet in Tech Channels,except 1rst time @cheyennedogsoldiers ! It may not be much of an issue for 99% of users cause we don't let our PC's get very warm,but it's there. What they test for.
@@wojtek-33 If you increase ambient temperature by 30* (from ~20*C ambient, to ~50*C inside the case) you will also increase the cable temperature by ~30*C
So if it reached 60*C in Jay's tests, then inside a case it would reach about 90*C
@@wojtek-33 It does, heat dissipation is relative, if the place where you are dissipating heat gets warmer then you will be dissipating less heat. The balance points will be at the same temperature differences between ambient and object.
That is why overclockers use liquid nitrogen, because lower temperature allows them to remove heat faster and move the balance points lower.
Probably the only way to make it melt is make the resistance at the connector high enough. Like not plugging it in all the way and the internal connectors barely touching the graphics card. Or maybe putting the plug in skewed so that only half of the pins are touching. If the reason for the melting was the smaller gauge cables it would melt at the cable as smaller surface area=more resistance. You should do collab with ElectroBoom with this. He will surely melt it. Anyway it might be defect in manufacturing also as jay said.
This is probably the most likly answer. when the pins are close enough but not touching then you get bridging which raises the heat. this is the biggest reason for electrical fires in the uk and why its required for a qualified electrician to fit the electrics (in most cases). I had a similar thing happen last summer where the wife was using an outside device and the socket was bridging internally. the socket itself melted where the connectors are. which could have caused a fire if it wasnt for the device to stop working.
Possibly they are using some cheap adapters they got to work on older psu's they have?, until can afford to also upgrade that part, or think they'd have to?
The first failure picture looked very much like the top row (bottom row) were all contacting poorly, from a hard bend. Sure which orientation it used, one row is GND, one row is 12v.
Or talk to buildzoid, he has some experience with more technical stuff.
It could even be out of spec plastic
this... also, gib more power, not pigtails!
Those CableMod cables look SOOOOOOOOO good. Thank you for all the work you do!
Do it in a pc case, route the cables like you would and see what are the results
Edit: from what I've seen it's not the cable itself but the pins and connections to the 12V power connector on the gpu that are causing this
PC case really plays a huge role in heating those cables, because hot air from the sides of the GPU goes along the side panel of the case, where the cables are.
he need to bend the cable side way ,and if the end pins loose a litle and dont make the connection properly this is what cause the burn, not the cable bending , in the case you have airflow so i dont know if there wil be much diference in the heat there
The pins are small and stamped from a sheet. They have a slit on top and if put under torque from wire that u shape will open and they lose contact on most of the surface area and just bite on corners.
That seems to be what the consensus over on a lot of reddit threads are. The pins being pulled and more exposed, touching and heating up the housing due to aggressive strain. No one following the recommended cable allowance has felt much more than just a slight warmth to the housing at all
@@TheRustyTigger the fact there is a recommended way of using the connector without it catching fire is the problem, that just shows how dumb the new standard is.
Ltt posted a video showing a 4090 pulling more wattage in cyberpunk 2077 than in stress tests most likely due to the added ray tracing. Could this make enough difference?
Was also seeing draws pretty much exceeding the ratings on some those psu's used, but are very top end, so I'm wondering if the ones that are failing are a combination of psu makes/watts, cable seating/bend, load type and, maybe even more importantly, just user error.
The Founders on an open bench is probably the least realistic test, but at least Jay tried, and asked for more info on what setups are having the issue.
The two original 4090's with melted 16 pin adapters have a BIOS power target of 450 W and a power limit of 600 W.
I believe the issue is when the adapter is used at its maximum design load of 600 W with uneven draw across the pins.
More testing is needed, and inside a case where the ambient temperature would be much higher than room temperature.
Thank you for showing us an attempt to recreate the failures that have been cropping up. Glad to hear AMD is not going this route with the connector, but I’m concerned since they probably already have the product standing by ready to ship. I think they have the product announcement for the RX7000 series set for next week?
They could have tested connector before this event and decided to go with previous one (because of some issue or another). So they are just promoting their use of previous connectors. (which they had planned all along)
Unlike what Jay said, they didn't decide last minute to switch connectors. Before the 4090 launch it was already known that the new cables/connectors were problematic and getting hot. Nvidia used it anyway. AMD decided not to go with it probably because it didn't satisfy their testing/standards.
There nowhere was information that AMD will use this pin. Jay says it because he assumed "new standard, so AMD for sure uses it"
For what I have seen, it is not the bent of the cable but the strain in the connector proper. Since the connector has sleeves of metal inside that have a seam, and open cut, if you put strain in the connector (not the cable) sideways (towards any of the shorter sides of the connector) the internal pins seem to open the sockets and then get hot. In sum: the problem here is not the cable but the connector, somewhat like the USB 3.0 internal header that tends to break, these tend to burn.
Try to make this test with the cable managed in a very tight way, so the cable is pulling from the connector sideways.
Open bench is a weird format to test for thermal failure in a typical desktop build.
Hi Jayz, there are one possible situation you might want to test. When build the system, it make sense for people not to pre-bend the adaptor cable, and let the side panel / cable management to form the bend, thinking it will give the biggest radius. However, doing that will put stress constantly at the connector, result as a potentially worse situation. In addition, when the bend is formed by pressing the side panel / stretching the cable behind the motherboard tray, the connector is not guarded by hand compare to the pre-bend method as you show in your video.
I wonder if this is why EVGA chose to put the connector on the BACK of the 3090 Ti. It seemed like an odd choice at the time but now it makes sense.
30 series it wasn't mandatory to use nvidia's power connector they created for the FE. this time around it is required to use the atx 3.0 standard 12 pin.
omg this guy still has no clue how any of this works, it's genuinely hilarious 😂😂😂😂
Hey Jay, have you thought about that there could have been constant pressure on the cable bend from the glass of the side panel? That could both keep the bend in a tighter position, and also forced the contact pins slightly out of alignment at the same time. Then run the card in an enclosed case with inadequate ventilation and you both a more serious problem and more realistic scenario. Not many people do this on test benches.
He said that
@@Gigalisk Yes, but he didn't try it. I think if he tried it in a case rather than on a test bench, he might be able to get a failure without too much trouble.
Jay this is an extremely common issue in the 3d printing community, its not that heat builds up over time, its that suddenly something isn't getting the power its supposed to the system so it sends more power and it starts to thermal run away. This can be caused by Air Gaps between the pins on the male and female side, or something with the card itself. Your test might not be able to cause the power pull that is causing this.
Also ambient temp plays a big role.
Agreed, this test doesn't account for poor quality control and tight tolerances.
Yeah so far the melting they show on picture is the connector to gpu itself that melts not the cable or connector on psu
So i think you are right about the male female thing and because the problem itself just affecting small number of people
It could be also ruled out as defect connector problem, i think they will just send replacement cable or something
Yeah he has no idea what he's doing
You have no idea what you're talking about. Thermal runaway is caused by a badly programmed controller when a thermistor disconnects or fails - when it doesn't see the temperature rising (due to the thermistor failure, even though temperature actually is rising), it just pumps more and more power into the heater until it catches on fire.
It's not something not getting power, then some magic happens and then everything's on fire for some reason.
The Problem is NOT the plug itself. IgorsLAB made a great Video about that.
The cable that's provided with the cards is just really bad.
These really thick cables a soldered to very very thin soldering pads inside.
The cables in the middle are each soldered to two pads, but the outer ones are only soldered to one pad each. The pads literally just snap off by bending the thick cables.
That's why a dedicated cable doesnt have the same fault.
AMD moving away from this is such a smart move. Can't wait to see what they release and am hopefully they deliver as I'm itching for almost any excuse to move away from nVidia and Intel at this point.
AMD marketing has had it's great moments in the past, only their silicone and drivers held them back most of the time.
Before someone says it: Nope, I'm not hating AMD, I'm currently running a R7 3800X and if the market weren't that F'd up and the cards here basically unobtainable I'd have a RX 6900 in my PC.
AMD is making money purely by being a little bit smarter and a little less shitty than their competition
AMD has previously released a 500w Tdp GPU with only 2 8 pins. So I guess they are quite confident in good old PCIe 8 pin..
FSR and ray tracing on AMD are the main things keeping me on Nvidia because they aren’t even close to matching dlss 2 or nvidia’s ray tracing so it doesn’t matter what they show
my last two systems are AMD, I use one as my work PC and one as my home PC/simracing PC, no issues. My GPUs in both are nvidia though, purely due to best performance available at the time. I previously used an rx480 though and worked even more flawlessly honestly, drivers were an issue with the first gen ryzen stuff but got sorted. Memory stability is still a bit worse on AMD I believe, takes a bit more intelligence/knowledge to get your rams rated speed, or just run it a couple hundred megahertz lower and you'll have 0 issues. It's been fun learning the new BIOS and setting wicked CPU testing scores.
The CableMod 12VHPWR cable (like Jay showed in this video) come in two types - terminating into 3 x PCIE or 4 x PCIE at the PSU end. I got the 4 x PCIE for my AX1200i.
RIP AX1200i - went through 4 of them
@@Don.Lamaack I had 3 of the AX1200’s pop in three months, eventually I asked Corsair to give me an upgrade to the AX1600 which they did, been solid ever since
Where'd you buy the cable from?
@@joophommie Cablemod. I ordered a 4 plug version yesterday for my 4090 and signed up for the 90° adapter that is coming out in 3 days time. A must have to eliminate any harsh bending of the cable and help reduce any potential damage. Cablemod cables aren't cheap. It cost me £65 to get the 4 plug 4090 custom coloured cable shipped to the UK. Worth every penny though if it saves your £2000+ GPU setting on fire.
Unless you don't plan to overclock I would get the four plug one for 600 watt I guess the only reason why you might not do that is if your PSU doesn't have enough plugs but then you really should probably invest in a new BSU
Seems the other comments are right, try it with the connector / cable under constant tension?
Like it was operating while pressed against the side of a case, or with cable management pulling on the cable?
"We gotta try it" - same thing Nvdia said as they released cards with dangerous connectors
“I wonder what can go wrong”
Also when they tried to sell the 4080 12GB.
@Muscleman8562 *looking for anyone who cares*
Noone found!
its not the connector thats dangerous, its the bending of the cable that is dangerous...
cables and connectors have been melting due to overly aggressive bending for over 20 years.
You call it dangerous but nobody proofed that those cables are actually dangerous, yet. Just because some people have a burning problem we shouldn't immediately assume that this is actually a hardware error. Most of the time it is actually a user error. I myself work in a service team in a tech company and there are way more people doing stupid shit with their hardware than the hardware actually failing themselves.
how much hotter would it get inside an actual case instead of an open air bench?
That was my first thoughts too!
I'm guessing about 20° hotter or more, I have a corsair commander pro with a probe in the exhaust air, in a LIAN Li 011 and all fans populated and my exhaust temp with a 220w gpu is around 40°c, about 20 above ambient, and that's probably a better case scenario
@@kalle5548 kick the tires and light the fires.
its also in open air, that helps cool the cable.
This is likely also more of a long term issue: if that connector stays at 60 degrees for hours, it's going to become a little more flexible and eventually bend more and more and contact in the connector will worsen up to a point it really heats up and melts.
Honestly they should switch to higher voltages like 24V maybe even 36-48V. The amps we push through that 12V rail is getting a bit crazy. 500W at 12V is a whopping 40A, that's a lot for any connector to handle especially ones that just clips on like that.
Either that, or return to the good ol' 8pins. 150W/plug, need 4 for 600, ok yes it's massive, but it has been already done, so no big deal.
I'm guessing the GPU would need a step-down transformer though. and the psu would need to step up. could work in the future though, neat idea.
@@Born_Stellar would require slight changes to the VRM but it shouldn't be too crazy. Step-up/down transformers are in the AC realm, but we're in DC land so the exact same tech that's already on the card but with a higher input voltage. It already steps down the 12V to ~1V for the GPU core and memory and doesn't really use 12V for much if anything. Phones and laptops already use higher voltages: USB-C PD supports up to 20V/5A and we still have super thin devices. Higher voltages are generally easier to handle than higher currents so it makes more sense to convert a high voltage to a lower one closer to where it's being used to minimize losses and high current cabling. Which is why houses use 100-240V outlets at 15A.
The main reason we ended up with this connector is attempting to remain compatible with existing PSUs, which I imagine the new ATX12VO standard weights in as well.
@@maxpoulin64 USB C goes even to 120W, so more then 20/5. More like 24/5.
Try it in a case, the pressure from the case would slightly unseat the connector (ever so slight in theory) and that bit of space could cause arcing which in turn could cause the failure to happen more consistently. Working on airplanes and how they're wired I've learned that if something isn't FULLY seated it could melt.
Exactly, when just bending the cable and then connect it, the inner connectors "go back into place", however with the side panel against the bend, the connectors inside can't go back into place
I love how everybody is trying to rationalize this as being okay at this point. Like I said in another comment, I've already blown my computer budget on other stuff for the fall. I don't even play games much these days, I'm busy, and I had other autumn/winter things I can spend it on than a 5700XT that doesn't need to be replaced or replacing my monitor. A part of me thinks I probably shouldhave looked at ultrawides and 7800XTs first but let's face it I'm not gonna wait and I don't know AMD isn't going to do stupid shit because simps let nVidia normalize it like the connectors, prices, and absurd TDPs.
It's 100 % because of sub optimal connection between the male/female square pins. Sub optimal contact creates resistance, resistance creates heat, excessive heat creates burn marks at the point of connection which creates further resistance and even more heat. End result is a melted plug or fire. I've seen this in the electrical industry so many times.
It is not so much the bending of the wires but the pressure on the plug itself. Attaching the plug over and over again and/or putting pressure on the connection itself will reduce the contact area between the male pins on the GPU and the female pins on the plug. Smaller contact area means more electricity going through a smaller area which increases heat and melts the connector around the metal if it gets hot enough.
Yes. it is a pressure by PC case.
It is bad connection at the connecting surface that causes overheating and fire hasard.... In my van that also uses 12v and same 50A you normally use big lugs that is tighened down HARD with big solid bolts and nuts + thick vires. DC 12 and 24v is notorious for creating hot spots and fires if the contact is just a little bit bad.
@@ingulari3977 Molex makes those plugs. They know their stuff TBH.
jay: wants to test under usual user conditions
also jay: tests on a 200$ test bench
Your right a user of a 1600$ card just hasn’t 200$ boards
@@domi06021988 More like no one uses test benches.
@@domi06021988 They put it in cases, not test benches, smartass
@@domi06021988 how many people do you know who use an open air setup?
@@Null_Experis if the comment make a point on open air I go with you but furgfury points the price out not the thermal difference to a case
Has to be a defect or partially connected pins that cause the issue. A very easy thing to have happen
I think one thing to you might be missing is time. It might only be a few degrees but extra heat over time, especially inside a case where the heat is likely to be higher could cause additional stress or additional movement as parts shrink and expand from heat changes at different rates.
I think so, too. Not necessarily thermal expansion, but rather plastic deformation. Many thermoplastics become softer when heated. Combined with constant force from the side panel pushing on it or the weight of the cables pulling on it, the connector could deform over time, which could lead to bad contact. Here, Jay was able to hit 60 degrees on the outside on an open air bench. A closed case will add another 10-15 and the temperature inside of the connector will also be a few degrees higher. We're talking about 80+ degrees here. Many thermoplastics start losing their mechanical properties around those temperatures.
This was fast
My opinion is that instead of aggressive bend but ultimately no tension on the connection from the wire, add some kind of tension from pulling the wire like some people might do when cable managing inside a case
60c is still 40c over ambient, in a closed case, with a bunch of cables crumped together and basically no airflow, it could get much hotter. It would be interesting from a purely theoretical point of view to know what temperature the plastic melts at, to know if it's even achievable with just heat or if it must involve arcing or fakes.
Testing the plastic melting temperature should be easy with a heat gun. But still, 60c is pretty far from any plastic melting temp.
@@InfoDav Exactly, you can put plastic in a pot of boiling water and it won't even melt.
If this is ABS plastic which it likely is, the melting point is around 104°C
@@thunderbolt10031 it's not 104c at all, it'll be closer to 200c for abs, it'll get weak at 104c but would never melt.
Well ambient for me is 32°C to 35°C, so the connector would run in excess of 70°C give or take and even hotter inside a case ☠️
14:50 _Do not do this._ Different PSUs often have different pinouts. It isn't even safe to assume that PSUs from the same manufacturer will have the same pinout. Plugging a set of cables with a different pinout to the PSU can fry whatever you plug it into.
I can vouch for this, I had a 850w evga power supply then upgraded to a used rmx1000 Corsair ps but had no cables, tried the cables from the evga and nothing happened, came across a video about mixing cables so I bought the original cables from Corsair and everything worked fine, I was lucky this time, can’t say the same for everyone
@@bluberrialpha You can vouch for this but you've never had it happen to you, gotcha
You are correct about not swapping between PSU's; Jay should have mentioned this. Jay likely knows Corsair has been using their Type 4 cables for a long time now. The RM1000X I got 6-7 years ago uses Type 4 cables that are the same as the cables I received with an RM 850X I just got a couple weeks ago.
thank you for this video. I ordered the cablemod cable that ends with 4x 8 pin, the safest option before buying the actual card: 600w/4
Might be variance in the adapter, e.g. uneven wire gauge or crimping issue. Also you should try to run it inside a not-completely-well ventilated (but reasonable) case. These things can add up.
ambient heat is not the cause of why the wire fries and melts. so that would not affect the experiment whatsoever. the experiment is about trying to make the pin get in contact with each others through bending and handling, lowering that pin resistance and let a surplus of ampere through it, causing the burn. it's not ambient heat making the cable and connection fry, it's the unusual amount of ampere that gets into the damaged connectors. It's ohm's first law. Study more, kiddos.
@@davidepannone6021 You must be a troll, because that made no sense.
@@karmakh you must be an idiot, because you don't know ohm's first law.
@@karmakh You need an education....
Ever thought about bad crimped contacts? Or a too lose connection between the metal parts, could be caused by bending, too? There are a lot of amps going through those thin cables and connectors, combined with small arcs or higher resistance, this is nuts!
@@tacticalcenter8658 wow, just wow! Check igor's Lab's latest video, they opened one of those connectors. They are soldered! Way too less metal as pins, just crazy
You should test in a case. The ambient temps in there will be way higher. No one daily drives a test bench.
I think 2 plugs is fine, like most PSUs have that connector where it terminates into 2 6+2 Pci-e connectors, each of which should handle 150W so that means the cable could, in theory, support 300W. So the Corsair cable which ends on 2 300W plugs for the PSU, should provide the 600W on the new plug needs to power the card.
Correct the pins on the PSU end are mini-fit jr and can support 9.2a, so that is in excess of 660W across two of them. The issue with using a pigtail/daisychained/dual output cable is the wire itself has to be able to support 300W at least along the portion between from the PSU to the first connector on the GPU. Even 18AWG wire will support that amount of power over the short 2' or so lengths used by PSUs. You just have to be careful with either custom cables or cheap power supplies that come with under gauge wires, I've never seen a reputable PSU come with cables that wouldn't support 300W over a pigtail 2 output cable.
@@jmarynicz Best to go ATX 3.0 PSU forget these cables the power delivery is probably the issue here u need smooth power one plug from ATX 3.0 PSU to the card don't trust these adapters or they would not be making ATX 3.0 PSU they know this was going to start melting not worth risking with new technology don't cut corners
@@fortnite360HZ the reason for the ATX 3.0 PSUs are for communication between the GPU and PSU and future products. A good quality Current gen PSU is fully capable of powering a 4090 no problem assuming it's connected with a good quality cable/adapter.
@@jmarynicz Its better To just go ATX 3.0 PSU Thats just me piece of mind Its one cable vs splitters or pig tails i dont trust adapters u really dont and i own 1600 watts corsair i wont do it
@@jmarynicz i think Nvidia Is gonna get rich if people start damaging 4090s This is not worth The headache
You should try it in a case with standard airflow, and with the glass side panel holding it bent.
Hey Jay, thanks for this, but: OPEN the 12PIN plug and see how the cables are soldered and how thin the metall of the plug is compered to the soldered cable, Igors Lab has made a video in german about it, search for it, please stay on that, thanks again :)
Would like to see cable mod add 2 more 90° designs.
Going out lengthwise to the 12 pin with both latch orientations.
Having all 4 would cover almost any build with any card, and if the 12 pin does eventually get full integration with all the card manufacturers, will be damned near required of the psu and cable manufacturers.
They're working on. They're very active in Reddit rn posting blueprints and progress
@@cadenzproductions nice.
Jay, in the first (control) test, you had the AIO positioned so that it gave the connector active air cooling. In the following tests the AIO were moved. Might explain the temp differences. Next time I suggest a bit more controlled environment :)
Preferably inside the 3 of the most purchased cases in the last 5 years.
@@1950sAmericanFather agreed
I looked at some pics on Google regarding these accidents. Just a thought. High temps could temper the metal to dilate and shrink in a way that can facilitate electric arcs, therefore melting.
Oh my god the 90 degree adapter. I've been asking for something like this forever.
We're gonna need water cooled power connectors soon.
I think vertical mounting gpus needs to be standard now. they're so big and heavy you have to put a stand on it to keep it from sagging.
Water Cooled power connectors with RGB lol
Tbh they should just use 3 normal PCIE connectors. If it would look the same as the motherboard connector, it would be just fine, maybe put it on the right side so it's out of sight
That's the whole thing, they're trying to solve a non-existing issue
yup, if it aint broke, why fix it (and potentially make it worse)
Exactly, making it smaller is fixing no issue.
I have the win 101 case and the glass was right up against the bent cable and it was fine for over a week using the adapter from the box, Corsair 1000w psu with no Corsair cable. After seeing the burnt cable, I took the glass off and straightened the cable to make sure it does not happen. I been using my pny 4090 since day one as well
Testing this outside a PC case is most likely what the PCISGI and Nvidia did on thier labs. A real pitty you didn't tried this inside a case. Perhaps the same result anyways, but it would be more real life scenario.
Being in a case would have a very negligible effect. It's all about the connection and Ohm's law causing the wire to draw too much current to maintain proper GPU voltage.
@@happygster922 temperature could have an effect
@@infernaldaedra Not really. The temperature you need to melt plastic is pretty high, way higher than boiling temperature of 100 degrees. The cause of the plugs that has failed is almost guaranteed to be a production error, meaning poor contact between the pins, which causes the power to jump and cause a power arc. And this creates temperatures way beyond any temperature you will have inside a case, so the temperature in the case doesn't really matter much.
@@happygster922 Thats what I wrote, what I wrote. Then again the wire alone does not draw any current. Is the GPU the one doing it. Regards.
@@happygster922 what is ohms law? I know what is and i can also google if I would have had to and i also know V, I, and R have nothing to do with T nore is T in ohms equation let alone delta T.
I wonder if putting consistent pressure on the "bend" of the cable (such as the panel of a case, maybe the user had to give it a little "umph" to close the door) would make any difference over days or a week?
The cable must have not been seated probably or received pressure from the door! Could be defect in that specific cable too. A few bad cables on hundreds of thousands of cards is actually really good.
As Leo D's top coment has said, the test needs to be done inside a case where there is more heat, not outside of the case
ce faci rapha =]]]
ambient heat is not the cause of why the wire fries and melts. so that would not affect the experiment whatsoever. the experiment is about trying to make the pin get in contact with each others through bending and handling, lowering that pin resistance and let a surplus of ampere through it, causing the burn. it's not ambient heat making the cable and connection fry, it's the unusual amount of ampere that gets into the damaged connectors. It's ohm's first law. Study more, kiddos.
cablurile nu se prajesc pt ca se genereaza caldura in jurul lor, ele se prajesc pentru ca se indoaie mult prea mult si se creeaza un fel de chokepoint pentru caldura
Try doing this in an INWIN 303 case. Lol
I'm sure the RMA process will be a headache. Nvidia is going to blame your PSU, case config, or user error. Too many outs for them
They can eat shitt
Hey Jay, Galax says if you pull the connector slightly out of the GPU to where it's still powering the GPU but the cable isn't fully in the socket - then the connector will go up to 100c
Exactly. All the pictures I have seen show a melted plug that was not properly inserted into the socket. Maybe the socket was too loose or too tight, or maybe the retaining clip didn't engage. It's even possible that installing the side panel knocked it loose. Regardless, a poor connection between the cable and the socket caused the connection to heat up and melt.
BTW, this really can't be blamed on the new connector type. I've seen it happen with the 12v CPU plug as well. Typically this is user error.
Yea, but I say making that condition is a condition nobody should make when building their computers and or adding a 4090 to the existing build.. since its already being talked about and everyone is hearing about it, they should make the bend in the cable before plugging it into the graphics card and ensuring the connections to the graphics card are very very secure and a solid seat into the socket of the gpu.. that was a very aggressive bend Jay just did here.. and it was fine.. I myself think that the 90* angle coming directly out of the card, should force NVIDIA to create a 90* angle cable for their card, eliminating all the stress one could possibly put on the cable, clearly the cable company has already been looking at it and making them.. maybe Nvidia should buy a bunch of them cables and ship them with their graphics cards..
the unplugged part could even be arcing, explaining the melting.
@@tommyrottn The smaller size of the socket doesn't help, though. It makes it more fragile and reduces the margin of error for that to occur in the first place.
Jay, One scenario that your probably familiar with (car guy). Heat cycling.... one of the reasons auto plugs, particularly those under the hood are made the way they are is to withstand the hot/cold cycles. Those pins, particularly the female, are thin. Just stamped metal and will warp/flex as they get hot. Repeat this cycle for a few day of gaming, idle, gaming, off...ect. I wonder if that alone isn't introducing more heat as the tolerances go out the window. IF this is the case, even those cable mod cables will fail over time, unless the have some special blend of spices the put into the make up of their pins (copper, gold, brass, steel.... all act differently).
I think a more accurate and probably higher failure rate would be to bend the cable WHILE it is plugged in, putting more pressure on the pins themselves which seems to be the point of failure. I understand you may not want to do that while plugged into a 4090 as you don’t want to damage the 4090’s connector but maybe plug it into something else. I think stress being put on the connector while plugged in is the main weakness of this connector here.
I love the frequent uploads so god damn much!!
@Muscleman8562 it's funny cause no one asked
major variable missing, closed case.
internal temperature equilibrium would be was hotter than ambient temperature
I'm liking the fix Cable Mods is working on. Looks good too.
I appreciate CableMod's effort, but the fact of the matter is you shouldn't need to buy 3rd party connectors to use a ~$1,800 video card in a standard PC case. NVIDIA really screwed up on the plug design for this thing.
@@LapsedMemory you don’t. The vast majority of people have had zero issues with their cables
@@LapsedMemory Keep in mind that your reply is based on, like, 3 confirmed melted cables in the world.
@@Wrigglevision 3 out of how many in total?
@@LapsedMemory Nvidia didn't design the plug. Somebody else did. Nvidia's screw up was using this instead of 3 or 4 of the old style 8 pin connectors.
It's ok Jay, it was fun watching you try. You have the same card as me, you have the potential to get top 10 in Port Royal! Just gotta try!
Thanks for trying this! Mine never came close to melting, despite extreme overclocking.
I wonder if they didn't clip it in all the way.
Yes there are "rail design" differences between PSUs but I would imagine every PSU's 8 pin socket (PSU side) would have at least 6 power connections, and two of these resulting in 6 connections perfectly sufficient for a... 12 pin plug....
I’d want to see this after 3 months being used in a case and see the state of it.
Ok let me get the time machine out
@@DR19X why is the need for that? One can create a video about it in three months time, rightv
Surely the easiest fix for NVidia (& also for AMD) would be to stick to the ATX 3.0 power cable, BUT move its location to the back of the GPU (facing the front of the PC case) rather than having it on the side, which it has to be bent to fit in without pushing against the case side panel? It would also LOOK better there, as the power cable would not have to travel as far into the visible area of the case, especially if the power cable terminated in a hard 90 degree turn plug, so no bending is necessary. The smart communication of ATX 3.0 should not be thrown away by AMD - it is a step forward that should be kept as a standard, despite dodgy cheap cables, and poorly thought-out socket placement.
That's a bit of a tall order.
On most of the cards, the PCB is only two thirds of the length of the heatsink. You're proposing putting the connector on the end of the heatsink.
The last time I recall anyone adding a connector termination to the heatsink rather than pcb, it was glued and soldered and widely panned for disassembly shenanigans.
Well I have a Silverstone Raven. So that means the "back" (opposite the video connectors) faces the case fans. Any card with a power connector on that end could have a bend problem if it was too long. The NVIDIA 4090 [13.22 inches x 5.5 inches x 2.4 inches] power connector would fit with space for a bend. Same with the current "poorly thought out socket placement" AMD Vega card in the system just smaller.
I think it would cause a failure/ more heat if you were to insert the connector straight and then bend the wiring after connected.
It appears as though the pin damage is occurring due to the female terminal getting distorted by the male terminal.
if the cabling is pre bent the pins/ terminals will still seat straight.
I think you missing a situation of not fully plugged connector, if there is tiny bit of space between connector and pin it will arc at this amonu of power. It might be bad fit that causes it to melt, since arc will produce incredibly high temperature.
he did this in the video
@@morganlimes but he didn't do it for 3 days like the reddit poster said.
your cablemod plug caused alot of people grief lol
@14:50 I feel like you should make it clear that swapping cables from on PSU to another is NOT reccomended in 99.9% of scenarios. In this case I assume that since both of your PSU's are from Corsair they are using the same pin-outs?
The power supply comes with PCI-e cables which terminate in *two* 8 pin connectors (as you've shown), each of which can handle up to 150W, so the PSU connector must be able to handle 300W. So terminating 600W cable in two of the PSU connectors should be fine.
This. There seems to be some failure to realize that the spec is wattage per connector, not per cable. each connector is rated for AT LEAST 150 watts, meaning the plug on the PSU for a pigtail cable is good for at least 300 watts. Likely far more, considering that the new plug has like half the contact surface and is rated for 100 watts per pin minimum.
no, it's not just the connector that has to handle the power... each strand too. each PCI-E cable is rated to handle 250W for standard gauge (that can handle between 6 to 9A). if you go over that, some strands will heat up so much that their sheath/insulation sleeves will melt.
if you apply too much pressure on the cable and pins, some could get disconnected, that putt more load on the other pins, creating spikes.
electricity is no joke. you have to have enough margin to take spikes into accounts too. it seems nvidia went too close to the specs this time.
@@HiPnautique is that a spec for pcie power cable that’s listed somewhere? The 16 AWG the connector is made for can handle an easy 10 amps over this sort of distance. Both the wire and the connectors of the old style can handle close to 400 watts from an 8 pin connector on the psu side.
@@johngaltline9933 the connector might accept 16 AWG, but all cables are not 16 AWG, unfortunately. At 16, they would be fine with 400W. But most are at 18. Which should carry 286 W exactly, but I always subtract 20% for safe margin (and something even 20% is not enough). Manufacturers trying to save a few cents/pennies on cables, and the consumers don't know about it until they find the burnt cables in their PC.
@@HiPnautique 18 AWG is rated for 16 amps max current, that’s 192 watts at 12 volts. On an 8 pin that’s 768 wats per cable, well more than double the 300 watts required by the spec to provide for two 150 watt 8 pin connectors.
Even using your numbers, the issue once again is not what the PSUs factory cables can take but rather if it is safe to use an aftermarket extension from two 8 pin connectors on the psu side. It is perfectly safe to do so, as long as the aftermarket cable is using at least 18 AWG as that configuration provides more than twice the current capacity that is needed.
that cable-mod 90 should have an RGB little 50mm fan on it 😁
give the plug 60 connection cycles and then test it again
I am curious that if this is a power connector issue, was this also a thing on the 3090ti cards that have the connector?
You should try a stabilty test for hours on a intensive amp draw like 600 wats for a few hours see if the connectors get hot or burn like others .
Definitely try recreating the melting in a case next time, i think inside a mid tower case where there's a lot of heat in case is when the cable will burn up, too much heat in and out of the cable
I think the into the case is totally negligible because you need hundreds of °C in order to have the connector to burn.
ambient heat is not the cause of why the wire fries and melts. so that would not affect the experiment whatsoever. the experiment is about trying to make the pin get in contact with each others through bending and handling, lowering that pin resistance and let a surplus of ampere through it, causing the burn. it's not ambient heat making the cable and connection fry, it's the unusual amount of ampere that gets into the damaged connectors. It's ohm's first law. Study more, kiddos.
@@davidepannone6021 current.... Not Ampere Ampere is the amount. Schoolboy
The ambient heat would not change much. While it could maybe increase the temperature by maybe 5-10C it could also have reduced temps because of faster airflow
In these “failed” scenarios is it possible that the “bent” power cable didnt clip in securely? Seeing that it runs warm its possible for that connector to “creep” and eventually cause a short. If it had to be bent in the first place its possible that theres constant tension on that connector and the temperature variation between powered off state and load could promote the creeping.
Jay, the type 4 plug on corsair power supplies is designed to handle 300 watts each.
Also, the corsair PCIE cables are running 16AWG wire, and are designed to deliver 150 watts per connector.
I normally like Jay's episodes. But these are definitely NOT public service announcements or journalism. They're deliberate attempts to drive views, with an inherent willingness to talk crap about the electronics side of things.
He claims to be trying to help drive up consumer information. But he's seemingly very willing to Not inform himself on how power cabling Actually works and is Actually specced.
As if his ignorance is worth other people's expertise.
"i don't understand why" is NOT a rational for something being done "poorly".
Ignore ALL of his electronic "engineering" knowledge. It's spurious confirmation bias to drive a preffered narrative.
Jay can you do a inside case test since it will run a lot hotter and a more real case problems ?
Jay I'm a miner i came across this a few times, with a poor connection/poor contact causing sparks that melts the plastic, you need to fine a defective plug to simulate the melt down and the power supply won't shutdown till a short happens. As always it comes down to quality.
Maybe them people who’s cables melted just got unlucky with there cables it’s a thing that only time can tell if there’s a problem
In addition to what other have been saying, i.e test in an actual case, you must also consider ambient temperature.
I don't have AC, and sometimes in the summer I've been playing with 30°C room temperature, and I can tell you, the temperature of the system is much different, so I'm sure it's the same for the cables.
also got to consider the fact that the burn cases could be a result of a hardcore gamer, which is average now. meaning 12-18 constant hours gaming non stop
I think you're going to have to try it in a case. I think that if the cable was to touch the side panel, then that would add pressure to the connection that could cause higher temps. I think you're onto the right track with this cable and the issues it has though.
as he stated. the event he was trying to recreate was with a vertically mounted GPU so there was no case pressure on the connector at all.
One of the dangling wires appears to be connected to pin S4, and if pin S4 shorts to ground, then the card will believe it is allowed to draw more power than it actually is. A wide variety of things in a computer case are grounded, and it would just need to touch one of those things.
Glad to see something I suggested in a previous video that cablemod were already beginning the manufacture!
17:10 why not use a continuity tester on the pins to find out if they are connected ?
i agree
The reported issues with the cable is the reason I'm holding off on buying a 4090.
I figured it would be a good time to upgrade my platform to the newest generation, but I'm absolutely waiting now until it's clear what's causing these failures.
Why do you need a 4090 ?
Just get ATX 3.0 PSU and u won't have problems there are updated PSU for the 4090
Msi came out with a 1300 watt ATX 3.0 and i think The fires are caused by power spikes and surges not The cable being bent thats BS
It's the small ass connector
@@NoSend901 hard To say if it is power surge related we need To speak To people That have The Latest psu atx 3.0 then u will know if They have no problems
Finally a channel that shuts the **** up and just does the testing holy hell the drama surrounding this, when it’s already been on cards for over a year
I'm wondering if it may also be a manufacturing defect too, with only some cables failing, like a bad batch or something
Other techtubers have investigated and apparently they're using very cheap contact pins, which are not robust/reliable at all