@@chikirin9349 Bro he looks like the creepy uncle that shows up at family reunions to tell dirty jokes and annoy everyone, he doesn't look cool and it doesn't fit Arthur at all.
I think losing honor here is based less on the actual decision but instead on letting Sadie go alone, since you know there's no way to stop her going so you might as well help her out and put her in less danger
It's still fundamentally flawed for 3 reasons imo: 1. Trying to dissuade a friend from a self destructive path IS also helping even if she isn't convinced and goes anyway. 2. She survives without a scratch anyway even when she goes alone and that undermines your point a little imo. If they had her die, I'd get losing honor more as we'd feel guilty and it'd hammer home the *"revenge is a fool's game"* idea. 3. The game is telling you helping Sadie to get her revenge is more honorable than sticking to your morals when it should've been a truly neutral choice where it's up to the player to decide what they think is the right choice imo.
@@alexdeghost2729 They're not edgy by any means because they disagreed with a story decision. I also disagree that it's justified; it goes against Arthur's morals, which while I get why he'd help her in case you do, not helping her to stick to your beliefs should be just as validly honorable imo. This leads into this scene's other issue, it takes away the player's choice of what they think is the right thing by going *"um, no that's the right choice"* you're wrong for not helping your friend on her self-destructive quest.
" Now this one here, right? It's one o' dem antique ruby and diamond cluster rings, circa 1797! A real thing uh beauty, feller, I'll tell you what. -Something y'er lady would surely love, wouldn't yew say?" "You make a good point, sir! How much?" " I can only take gold f'er that, I'm afraid.... Do you have some?"
This is Arthur if he had survived the gang, escaped the law, beat TB, and went on to pursue a life of illustration and photography under a new identity.
Yeah, losing honor here always felt inauthentic and the reverse of what should've happened. They lose you honor because *"you declined helping a friend"* not considering that the player is sticking to Arthur's beliefs towards revenge and tries to convince Sadie to let go of it by doing so. We should be gaining honor or staying the same for either options imo.
In the life of an outlaw, there is going to be a different perspective of being "honorable." To Arthur, "honor" doesn't mean doing what's always morally correct, he left that choice behind long ago. To him, being honorable is being loyal. He couldn't stop Sadie from getting her revenge, but loyalty matters more to him then his opinion on revenge
She has a good reason to want revenge. Bad behavior should be punished. Killing the O’Driscolls would mean potentially saving others from suffering the same fate as Sadie did. Those men killed her husband and did unspeakable things to her. There’s nothing as dishonorable as the idea of Arthur refusing to help and then going so far as to tell her that she’s incorrect for thinking that she needs to hunt them down and kill them for what they did. She’s correct. She needs to.
imo the honor system is halfassed in rdr2. if they insisted on forcing arthur to have a character arc about regretting his actions and becoming a better person then why even bother having the honor system at all. it does nothing except make a handful of variations in dialogue and changes which of the 4 halfassed endings you get to watch. they should’ve just taken the honor system out entirely if they were so desperate to have people sympathize with arthur. i play low honor and feel absolutely no connection to arthur and couldn’t care less about his story because he acts nothing like how i play the game if the honor system didn’t exist and that was just how the story was i could accept that ludonarrative dissonance of my own making (even though i still wouldn’t like arthur as a character) but the fact that the game tries to give you some illusion of choice when your actions have 0 consequences on anything and the writers beg & plead for you to feel sorry for arthur when he’s just a worse version of john who i’ve been making kill dogs & cats and rob blind elderly people on the reg. yeah i can’t say i enjoy that “arthur is a hero” shit like idk. they really thought arthur sitting in camp and talking to tilly about how “he keeps killing folk” every now n then was valid characterization & explanation for low honor play. it’s just lazy and i don’t like it
“I wish I could. But I cannot do it. Charles Chatenay needs my help in Saint Denis. And there’s the widow north of Annesburg. And a couple legendary animals…”
While I agree that the honorable thing to do would be to dissuade sadie from taking revenge, by this point, we know how high strung she is; she was going no matter what. So it becomes a choice of letting her go alone or going with her to help and make sure she doesn't get herself killed. It's a more complicated decision then just honorable or not. In the end, it's up to the player to decide what feels right to them.
That's missing the point. Regardless if she's swayed off revenge or not, it's still honorable on Arthur's part to help a friend off a path of self-destruction than enabling them on it, which while isn't wrong neither in this case, shouldn't be the more honorable option imo. And what makes it frustrating is it's NOT exactly up to us to decide what feels right. Because the devs tell you what they think is right, whichever decision you take by gaining or losing you honor.
@@themadtitan7603 this is the second comment of yours I’m replying to , I think you care to much about what the devs think and trying to play the “cannon” way , what makes this game so great is it’s LITERALLY up to you how you choose to play the game that’s why they give you the options to choose your own path , if they wanted you to do everything their way they wouldn’t of gave you different options and outcomes depending on how you decide to play
i like how she says in one of the dialogues that O'Driscolls turned her into a monster, even though she acts the exact same way as she did in Red Dead Online.
I think because her husband Jake was alive and since it was just them two out there and that they had been robbed multiple times, she had that “I’ll kill you” guard if she thought the player were to rob them too. But when the Odriscolls showed up in the story, they killed Jake and that’s what made her go insane.
@@youngtally2677 “my husband and i, we shared the work. All of it” Also sadie: “I Ain’t chopping vegetables for a Living!” Also also sadie: *becomes a professional gunslinger the first actual mission she is part of* Also also also sadie: *belittles everyone afterwards in Camp and missions, driven by revenge to kill Colom O’driscoll, but doesnt want to when it comes to it? Then Proceeds yet again to get angry and kill the O’driscoll’s either Way? Also all her missions are goofy asf, Got some poor guy killed Got some information for a public hanging… You know… Public? She Got a dude killed for public information is stupid. Is constantly a one army woman, with Arthur. They feature the cringiest scene ever thanking her for “saving” the gang members back after the bank Robbery, Because they needed to thank her for something in the game, to include her in more rushed stuff, John only Got captured so sadie could get another mission that Arthur and her end up saving John. To then Arthur getting scolded by Dutch and not sadie too? Yeah… is stupid and she is a literal Mary sue.
She seems to take it ok. She even appreciates our honesty and goes on with it, going ahead and surviving a solo assault on a big O'Driscoll hideout anyway.
Man whenever Arthur says that revenge piece it always makes me thinking, the entire plot of red dead would’ve been different if Sadie,John and Jack would heed his words.
@andrewbondurant8513 the pinkertons would have found John even if he didn't go after micha. I mean he bought a huge peice of farm property next to Blackwater, all they would have had to do was look at the files and see that it was John who owned that farm.
@andrewbondurant8513 the pinkertons would have found John even if he didn't go after micha. I mean he bought a huge peice of farm property next to Blackwater, all they would have had to do was look at the files and see that it was John who owned that farm.
@Korean_jesus69 he did but they immediately knew he was lying John was terrible at keeping his fake name and slipped many times so it was worthless lying
And I guess that's why they chose for you what's the right or wrong choice whenever you're with her. Like this and also the mission where you spare Cleet and she just shoots him anyway because that's what Sadie wants.
@@themadtitan7603 That moment with Cleet genuinely pissed me off. I chose to spare him, he ditched the life because he realised that what him and Micah were doing was wrong. Sadie (Who somehow had even less development than a random side character) took that choice away from me because Rockstar decided that she is always in the right no matter what she does.
@@youngtally2677 Yeah, it really bothered me that Cleet's death is glossed over so readily. The only one of Micah's men that had the gumption to leave after realizing that he was a child murdering lunatic, and we're just supposed to accept that Sadie killing him in cold blood is cool because blind revenge is alright when she does it.
@@YorkJonhson I really think Sadie shouldve died in the epilogue. Her story shouldve concluded with her getting completely blinded by vengeance and it catching up to her in some way. Heck maybe she could've gone so far as to think that John went soft, then maybe she attempts to kill him in her irrational rage.
@YoungTally That would have been so much more impactful if she had gotten taken out like Sean did but in the epilogue or even last mission, no speeches, no warning, just dead. And you could go even further and do a GTA IV style thing where if you choose revenge then after or during the mission she is killed, so the games message of revenge being a fools game could have come full circle. Or the inverse where you choose to leave Micah behind and then Charles dies, and in that moment Sadie swears off revenge after seeing one of her only friends get killed like that, and after the last mission plays out like normal she would be a remorseful shell of herself who still plans on going to South America or wherever, but it would be heavily implied she didn't want to come back save for on a wooden box. The game could have done all that and more but there were devs that decided that Sadie-Sue needed her time in the spotlight and needed to be #girlboss instead of anything close to realistic.
Honestly, the way I see it is that Arthur helping Sadie get her revenge is to ensure she's protected and safe. It makes more sense for him to convince her to stop, but if she's not going to, he'd gladly go.
@@TheAwesomeDarkNinja"How come everytime I get into trouble, I'm called a fool and an idiot? But when you get in trouble, oh it's just one of them things?"
I agree, on my first playthrough I decided to refuse to help Sadie, and I remember being confused on why I lost honor, I was like: "wait, revenge is a luxury we can't afford, but now all of a sudden it's okay??" Then on my later playthroughs I helped her, but still I found it kinda weird first time I played
Well the honour system in Red Dead 2 has no consistency. I can light up Valentine like the 4th of July, but magically saying “hello Mr” to anyone gains me honour??? It reminds me of the wanted system and how broken it is where an NPC will spot you kill a guy even if no one was around 4s ago. In theory both systems are fine in concept, but in the way they implement it, it’s inconsistent and downright makes no logical sense
There's nothing weird about this,she needs your help,because she only trust in you,you shouldn't think about the whole context of revenge because it's her decision to make,she's desperate and it's personal for her and she's asking for help from a friend,at this point you don't think about the gang,revenge or anything,you think about what she's feeling,so the right choice it's simple,help her,it's a moral choice that require some level of maturity I guess.
@@squidlytv ,That's your opinion not Arthur's,and this have nothing to do with the gang or the meaning of revenge,it's about loyalty to a friend that trust you the most in the gang asking a simple personal request,and Arthur is loyal,so the right choice still remains the same,help her,either you like it or not.
@@shadowagent6051 while I can see where you're coming from this is a complex issue Sadie shouldn't be going out killing out of revenge and arthur standing by her enables that behavior Though it is still morally good to make sure she's okay in her time of need and there's little wrong with fighting Odriscols it's irresponsible and greedy of her to put herself and Arthur's life on the line to fight an already dying gang when they need to be there for everyone else
It's very weird how Sadie is never reprimanded for how bloodthirsty she gets, she suffered from the o'drisscols but so has Arthur and Dutch, Dutch is criticised when he loses his cool and Arthur doesn't let it get to him, but Sadie just gets to be a psycho? It's odd
I agree, when Sadie loses her cool and murders a bunch of people it's supposed to be an empowering moment for her, taking revenge on the gang that wronged her. Yet one of the game's central themes is that revenge is a fool's game, and you should let things go. Sadie constantly takes revenge, including during Colm's hanging where she gets exactly what she wants and still loses it and starts a gunfight in a crowded area, undoubtedly getting some innocents killed, and we're supposed to just not question it and it's literally never brought up again.
like the feud between dutch and odrisscols is constantly being told to be stopped by arthur and even micah because revenge is not their way and dutch lost the women he loved to odrisscol so yeah the fact when its sadie its okay but everyone else its bad is just one of the many reasons i dont like her she just breaks the narrative and immersion so much
@julian marx One of the only comments in a very long time to offer an even more unique “non-normie” take. Although, because of the lack of scolding from other characters and how some of the gameplay mechanics react with Sadie-related missions (like getting honor for supporting a psycho) I think R* definitely was working to fill the “blue check mark” criteria- It is very interesting how the Revenge Theme still comes full circle, either by accident and irony, or very well “cloaked” writing. Great comment, man!
It's not alright. People aren't annoyed that they lost a tiny bit of good karma. They're annoyed because at this point in the game the game has already encouraged you to redeem yourself and not to behave like a psycho. For the whole game you're told revenge is bad. Then you're punished for taking the hint. They should have had this quest waaay sooner when it would have made more sense. I'm getting mixed signals. Is revenge bad or is it not?
Ngl it would actually be great if you gained honor for not helping and lost honor for helping. It would create a bigger moral dilemma in the player, having to decide whether to help a friend knowing it's wrong or deciding not to for a good reason.
A big thing people don’t usually consider is that the honor is also in perspective of Arthur’s feelings on the situation, he doesn’t know that Sadie will come back, he doesn’t want his friend riding off on her own to what could be death, and he feels like a coward for not going with her.
Rockstar's honor system is really weird. In RDR there is a guy who is beating a woman and killing said guy will give you low Honor, but giving him $200 is high Honor? What's worse is that giving him 200 results in the woman to get killed later. So the whole decision feels and sounds like a Low Honor decision on paper but is framed as a high Honor decision.......
The high honor system is very pick and choose. In this scene they went with the mentality of "oh, but you're not helping a friend" despite the fact that in any other situation, foregoring the violent or revenge option would be the honorable thing to do than help a deranged, liability of a person on a self-destructive path she's already set on.
And that time where in a random event if you tell the guy who's looking for another guy hiding you lose honor, but if you don't tell him you gain honor but the guy dies anyways inside of the toilet. But maybe it's because if you tell the angry guy where he was you lose it because you're the reason he ends up being killed but if you don't say anything he dies out of his own mistakes of literally entering INSIDE of the toilet just to hide. Still wish we could have saved him tho and then upon the angry guy's reaction of seeing us helping him, he cursed at us while unsuccessfully chasing after the other guy who escaped lol. Holy shit this comment is long 😭😭😂😂.
I was so sick of killing people at that point, and Arthur saying that revenge is a fools game, I immediately declined her offer. I felt like Arthur at this point, sick and tired of everything.
Sadie-“help” Arthur-“no” Sadie-“okay” Arthur-“ so I know I just told you no to helping you with something important to you, but could you help me with something important to me”
i think here there should be an extra option, because like this feel just an incomplete dialogue. Let me explain: Arthur know that sadie is stubborn, and know like he said that ''they are more ghost than people'', so he know that getting revenge is the only thing that matter to her, she doesn't care to survive, she want to kill the people that have destroyed her life. Deciding to not help her means that you let her alone, to fight alone and probably dying alone. By doing that you literally let down a friend. But...here's the point about the ''incomplete dialogue'': i think that trying to persuade Sadie is the right decision, Arthur always said ''revenge is a fool's game'', and trying to convince her to not go for that path is the most in line with arthur moral code thing to do, but, at the same time, the high honor arthur wouldn't let sadie go alone. There should have been an extra option if you choose to persuade her to not go, and that is to follow her and help her anyway. Not for giving her the revenge, but for saving a friend. So, i understand why they give you low honor for not helping sadie, but at the same time, this game dialogue feels incomplete, leaved like this.
I kinda wish rockstar would have not shown the honour system to the player but still had it affect the ending. I know they had it in the first game also but they changed things in that one too like the fame bar. Playing the game without feeling obligated to think about gaining or losing honour on every action would have improved the gameplay imo
A side point but it’s not as if you’d even be blind until the ending as it shows you through the spirit animals and through Arthur’s motives whether he has high or low honour
Sometimes I jus make decisions based on gameplay, let's say that's a mission I want to play, I will make my decision regardless of honor. I did accept in my playthrough, simply because I didn't want to miss out on the mission.
Honestly picking up Sadie was the worst mistake they made she got the gang needing more money casing arthur to have to talk to downes they shoulda let member go instead of letting loyal friends risk there lives everyday
I think it’s because Rockstar spent hours and money animating the shootout sequence that they want players to pick that option more otherwise it would have been for nothing. Ofc many players would still choose to take revenge with Sadie but the majority would not.
That’s a pretty petty reason on Rockstar’s part to lower a player’s honor. Oh well, game developers have done worst when it comes to trolling the players.
Maybe they’re saying that it would be better to stay with her as a friend and not leave her to do this alone. Typically, when people fall into this sort of thinking, it is the people around them that support them and help them change for the better. Not going with Sadie is telling her that she has no one left in a way.
Everytime i see a red dead video people still amaze me with the outfits on Arthur. I would've never thought that those round glasses can look good on him
My arthur is a stoic. "Revenge is a fool's game" my consensus for letting her go alone was that "SHE" wanted to kill them to the last man(changed or not, probably has men like kieran in the gang) which was needless and I wasn't ready to go through with more bloodshed as arthur... the game had a toll on me on that part. And I figured it was more empowering this way.
Agreed. People act like it's a travesty that some will decline her and lose honor but so? You only some honor not all of it and will still get the ideal ending.
Arthur killed dozens, maybe even hundreds of O'Driscolls. And now refusing killing a bunch of them is something hypocritical to me. Considering that it was important to her, it is also selfish. Words about revenge being a fool's game are absurd. Revenge was all she got left, because she lost everything. Revenge is usually normal. And she would avenge her husband by any means necessary. There is no way stopping her. You lose honor for letting her alone
Fr cuz i chose not to because arthur is clearly tired of all the killing, he just wants to be kind and do good for the rest of the time that he's alive. Not only that, but he's already killed hundreds of O' driscolls throughout the game. I chose not to in my first playthrough but immediately felt like i missed out
İ don't know, why people think like that. Arthur killed dozens, maybe even hundreds of O'Driscolls. And now refusing killing a bunch of them is something hypocritical to me. Considering that it was important to her, it is also selfish. Words about revenge being a fool's game are absurd. Revenge was all she got left, because she lost everything. Revenge is usually normal. And she would avenge her husband by any means necessary. There is no way stopping her. You lose honor for letting her alone. Good Arthur WOULD help her, not for revenge, but to look after her and don't let her go on a dangerous mission by herself.
I’ve actually been under the assumption that the bad ending to Arthur’s story is the true ending because John never mentions him in the first game… if u think about it if Arthur was this man who tried his best and John respected him so much in the good honor ending, wouldn’t he call back to him from time to time? In the bad ending Arthur pretty much sais fk John and everyone I’m going for the money, and John rides off to be with his family, dialogue shows that he looked back at Arthur in a darker way and doesn’t mention him… fast foward to rdr1 and he’s never mentioned. I think Arthur was a bad dude in the end.. sure the happy ending is what we want but Maby not the true ending
@@Austin.Kilgore u gotta think of all that woulda led up to that moment, Maby he was just selfish, maby in the end he was just grasping at straws and said fk it il just go for the money I’m a piece of sht anyway, remember the bad ending Arthur is almost a completely different character with different morals and values, it’s not as simple as oh I’m going to be logical and not take money because I’m dying that just doesn’t make sense…
@@lightbluej9411 or Maby that’s just having a lack of an imagination and can’t think beyond a story just being a story and just bringing real life facts into it to just conclude an end point… he is part of the story now and trying to find a reason why is not only fun but makes the story more interesting… I get ur point dnt get me wrong but at the same time, the 2 story’s exist now
Choosing this option was one of the hardest decisions I had Arthur make, but I don’t regret it. It felt true to his arc. It made sense that Sadie would be disappointed, but she remained Arthur’s friend, and John’s.
Authur's loyalty to the gang and the ones related to it is author's honor, not only that, but he denied to help Sadie only to then ask for her help, I feel like they made the right the call
I disagree. Arthur's loyalty to the gang in this case would be to stick with them when they're at their most vulnerable and to try to sway one of them (Sadie) off a self-destructive path regardless if she's convinced or not. Additionally, Arthur isn't asking her to help him but John, Jack and Abigail who the latter she already knows and likes so it's a less harder favor on her part than what she's asking him. Someone who's already sick and doesn't believe in revenge.
This Arthur looks as if he was a retired man in his early sixties who wants nothing than peace, but his past keeps chasing him... and I really like that
I think you lose honor as you dishonor a friendship between you and sadie and knowing you are not there leads sadie kiing them all by herself and breaking down crying afterwards by herself all the more tragic, making arthur be there lessens the blow and allow her to open up to him, I try to think of the honor system as something of what arthur would consider honor not good and bad but, because he was pretty much dead anyway. He tries and bring love to all those who will help fufill his purpose to get john and family to safety
Correct, this was far deeper than his "code". People forget he agrees to do a bank robbery later on in the Chapter. He's gone good, but he didn't become an angel.
The reason why Arthur would go with her is because he’s helping a loyal and close friend. Sadie had helped Arthur a lot during their time with each other. If Arthur doesn’t help a friend who has demons to deal with and is asking him for help because she trusts him, he’s not only proving himself as a bad man, but a horrible friend too who she can’t rely on when she needs help. Besides, it’s not like Arthur had regret killing the O’driscolls or lost honor by doing so. He just didn’t care about killing them cuz they didn’t pose any threat to him anymore and they were hardly a gang either. Meaning he didn’t care whether they were alive or not because at that point they were irrelevant after Colm was killed. And besides, Sadie trusted Arthur and asked for her help. What those O’driscolls did to her and her husband, it made an honest sense to this showing that she had lost everything she ever knew and cared for. And she trusted Arthur to help her. That’s the whole reason you got honor. You’re helping a friend who’s in desperate need to take care of their demons. Low Honor Arthur wouldn’t care about Sadie’s help in need. High Honor Arthur cares about Sadie and intends to help as much as possible with those that need help. That was his entire goal with High Honor and in Chapter 6. He wanted to help folk while he still had time left.
By killing the gang members it's exactly what it sounds like. Just because your doing it to save someone, killing all of the O'Driscoll's is killing the O'Driscoll's it's as simple as it sounds.
There is more to “honor” that right or wrong, zen or revenge. Like Sadie said, the O’Driscol gang took everything from them and are generally the most dispacable group of outlaws in the game. And Author knows he hasn’t got much time left anyway so there’s nothing realistically keeping him from helping Sadie. Honestly, after what they have been through together it would just wouldn’t be right not to help, even if revenge is a fool’s errand. Sometimes you just have to be supportive.
It's because Rockstar looked at it from a simplistic "you declined to help a friend" perspective instead of seeing you also stuck to Arthur's beliefs. It's not that it doesn't matter to Arthur to help Sadie, a friend. It's revenge that doesn't matter to him and in fact he thinks it's a lost cause. Him sticking to his "morals" while also convincing Sadie should've been the high honor option or preferably, make them both neutral.
@@themadtitan7603 He doesn't dislike revenge for moral reasons though, he simply doesn't think it's worth the risk, especially given their situation through most of the game. In fact, Arthur very obviously does not have a strict moral code to stand in, it's one of the main themes in the game. The thing is, it's pretty obvious that by that point of the game there's not much left for him to protect from the risks of revenge, so telling Sadie "no" here would have just been abandoning her during her emotional climax and betraying his choice of just helping everyone he can before he dies, which just doesn't sound like Arthur to me.
@@panic.betrayer Morals wasn't the right term. I meant beliefs, Arthur is far from an upstanding, moral guy, but he has a code that he lives by that was formed from his experiences and lessons learned from Dutch. He reiterates multiple times that revenge is a fool's errand and a lost cause that they don't even have the luxury to afford as he always favored to focus on their survival. That's what he's doing here, being strong for the gang when at their most vulnerable and when they can't use more unnecessary bloodshed and attention since that's what got them here in the first place. They also already killed many O'Driscolls and saw their leader, Colm, swing. So it just seems like this is more of the same. Now I think helping Sadie here makes sense and I don't think should've been the low honor choice neither, but I also disagree with the game's decision to have lose honor for declining her when Arthur had reasons not to and didn't just do it out of apathy for her circumstances.
Losing honor here makes perfect sense. This reminds me of the Indian elder who tried to dissuade his son in front of the entire Indian marching force. That speech only accelerated the violence because the elder supplied all the reasons to fight. If he wouldn’t have gotten involved, Dutch might have declined to fight alongside the Indians. And realizing that they couldn’t fight alone, the Indians might have reconsidered their plan to storm the oil rigs. Dutch knows that he needs to lay low. He knows he must conserve his men for the great escape he was planning. It’s likely that he would have refused to help the Indians. But after the elder indicates that Arthur is already invested in the tribe’s welfare, Dutch decides to ride with them at Arthur’s behest. He didn’t like that Arthur went behind his back because it complicated matters. What could’ve been an opportunity to defuse a risky situation with the Indians became an honorable march on the oil rig. We know Dutch is dishonorable. He wanted to regard or disregard the Indians according to his own judgements. Not helping Sadie is what Dutch would have done. But Arthur is different. He wants to see the people around him achieve their goals. Accompanying Sadie on a final march against the O’Driscolls would be very meaningful for the both of them. It would prove to Sadie that he means business about getting John, Abigail, and Jack out of the gang. And it would be an honor for Arthur to ride, with guns blazing, for a good cause. After all, someone has to stop the O’Driscolls from causing any more harm to innocent people.
I fundamentally disagree. Dutch would've helped the Wapiti tribe and even maybe Sadie, not because he genuinely cares or out of decency, but because their goals are common. He was already helping the Wapiti up to the point Eagle Files came to the camp with his calvary so I don't know why you think he wouldn't. And him and Sadie teamed up to ensure Colm was hanged, so given his end goal wasn't even to go to some haven and retire but to cause as much chaos and to fight for the free outlaw life, I can see him accepting to help her as an excuse to have one last shot at the O'Driscolls after their leader died. Also Arthur isn't killing the O'Driscolls to make sure they don't hurt anymore innocents, he and the gang were already doing that. He might be redeeming himself, but he's not some hero in Chapter 6 neither. He went with Sadie purely to help her and to fulfill their "deal" of her helping the Marstons in exchange. Which isn't even necessary considering if you decline to help her, she accepts anyway.
Dutch was not going to follow Sadie into battle. He didn’t care about wiping out the O’Driscolls, and he didn’t care about helping Eagle Flies. Dutch wanted to manipulate the Indians into causing enough of a distraction for his gang to slip away from the Pinkertons. He was purely pragmatic in his dealings with the natives, so it seems possible that he might’ve preferred to have them attack the Army and the oil rigs on their own. But Arthur’s motivation to help Sadie is a different story. He wasn’t being entirely pragmatic about going with Sadie. She’d help him with the Marstons anyway. We know that from this video. He goes for a different reason. He goes to do good.
That is easily the most peculiar Arthur I’ve ever seen
It kind of works though
@@chikirin9349 I mean it looks cool, but lorewise that was never happening in a million years xD
@@chikirin9349not at all.
@@chikirin9349 Bro he looks like the creepy uncle that shows up at family reunions to tell dirty jokes and annoy everyone, he doesn't look cool and it doesn't fit Arthur at all.
@@vengeance1450 Especially the glasses imo. The only part of the WhyEM mod that I don't think fits the game at all.
Arthur got that John Lennon Drip.
thought i was the only one who was thinking that
Yea he be singing about imagining peapole and thinking of world peace
“Some sport thing I dunno”
Only thing missing is a 38 snub-nose special
@@bluesolace9459 I see what you did there 😏
"But Sadie I've already killed everyone there like 10 times already"
I think I killed more O'driscolls than the total population of some of these cities lol I love this game
@@fubbywubyinmytuby4204 I killed like 5x the population of people the towns in this game can actually handle.
Arthur really be 50 steps ahead if he didn't catch tuberculosis and didn't get bored easily he can easily just stay on the run forever around the map
To be for real after the crazy missions with dutch Arthur needs time alone and just hangs out and stuff like he isn't most wanted all over the US.
But he didn't kill her husband's killer. Which was in that cabin, somehow.
I think losing honor here is based less on the actual decision but instead on letting Sadie go alone, since you know there's no way to stop her going so you might as well help her out and put her in less danger
Exactly!
Exactly. Edgy RDR2 youtubers like this dude try to criticize things that are justified, lol.
EXACTLY
It's still fundamentally flawed for 3 reasons imo:
1. Trying to dissuade a friend from a self destructive path IS also helping even if she isn't convinced and goes anyway.
2. She survives without a scratch anyway even when she goes alone and that undermines your point a little imo. If they had her die, I'd get losing honor more as we'd feel guilty and it'd hammer home the *"revenge is a fool's game"* idea.
3. The game is telling you helping Sadie to get her revenge is more honorable than sticking to your morals when it should've been a truly neutral choice where it's up to the player to decide what they think is the right choice imo.
@@alexdeghost2729 They're not edgy by any means because they disagreed with a story decision. I also disagree that it's justified; it goes against Arthur's morals, which while I get why he'd help her in case you do, not helping her to stick to your beliefs should be just as validly honorable imo. This leads into this scene's other issue, it takes away the player's choice of what they think is the right thing by going *"um, no that's the right choice"* you're wrong for not helping your friend on her self-destructive quest.
Why does this Arthur look like he runs an antique store 😂
I can imagine Arthur living with John at Beecher’s hope in the 1900s running an antique store
" Now this one here, right? It's one o' dem antique ruby and diamond cluster rings, circa 1797! A real thing uh beauty, feller, I'll tell you what. -Something y'er lady would surely love, wouldn't yew say?"
"You make a good point, sir! How much?"
" I can only take gold f'er that, I'm afraid.... Do you have some?"
@@OhHeyItsJackson the crossover we didn’t know we needed.
he looks a lot like sam hyde
Sadie: we need to kill the o'driscoll
Arthur: no, all we need is love
Underrated
*_Loses honor_*
rarely i give like to a comment but here i did.
Hahahahahaha
Didn't know tuberculosis's other name was Mark David Chapman
Holy shit this is perhaps the friendliest looking Arthur I have ever seen
This is Arthur if he had survived the gang, escaped the law, beat TB, and went on to pursue a life of illustration and photography under a new identity.
@@georgetazberik6834 Art Professor Arthur.
@@zachcarder8681 Art-thur, if you will. /lh
@@awkwardva4959 nice
I don't know... I find Big ass beard Arthur very friendly looking
A parallell universe where Arthur is the one writing a book on Jim Boy Calloway
🤣
That's a good one 😂😂
No in parallell universe Arthur is gangbanging Sadie.
Yeah, losing honor here always felt inauthentic and the reverse of what should've happened. They lose you honor because *"you declined helping a friend"* not considering that the player is sticking to Arthur's beliefs towards revenge and tries to convince Sadie to let go of it by doing so. We should be gaining honor or staying the same for either options imo.
In the life of an outlaw, there is going to be a different perspective of being "honorable." To Arthur, "honor" doesn't mean doing what's always morally correct, he left that choice behind long ago. To him, being honorable is being loyal. He couldn't stop Sadie from getting her revenge, but loyalty matters more to him then his opinion on revenge
She has a good reason to want revenge. Bad behavior should be punished. Killing the O’Driscolls would mean potentially saving others from suffering the same fate as Sadie did. Those men killed her husband and did unspeakable things to her. There’s nothing as dishonorable as the idea of Arthur refusing to help and then going so far as to tell her that she’s incorrect for thinking that she needs to hunt them down and kill them for what they did. She’s correct. She needs to.
imo the honor system is halfassed in rdr2. if they insisted on forcing arthur to have a character arc about regretting his actions and becoming a better person then why even bother having the honor system at all. it does nothing except make a handful of variations in dialogue and changes which of the 4 halfassed endings you get to watch. they should’ve just taken the honor system out entirely if they were so desperate to have people sympathize with arthur. i play low honor and feel absolutely no connection to arthur and couldn’t care less about his story because he acts nothing like how i play the game
if the honor system didn’t exist and that was just how the story was i could accept that ludonarrative dissonance of my own making (even though i still wouldn’t like arthur as a character) but the fact that the game tries to give you some illusion of choice when your actions have 0 consequences on anything and the writers beg & plead for you to feel sorry for arthur when he’s just a worse version of john who i’ve been making kill dogs & cats and rob blind elderly people on the reg. yeah i can’t say i enjoy that “arthur is a hero” shit
like idk. they really thought arthur sitting in camp and talking to tilly about how “he keeps killing folk” every now n then was valid characterization & explanation for low honor play. it’s just lazy and i don’t like it
@@yourehereforthatarentyou I don't think you understood the story very well or the parallels between high and low honor
@@Yougotcaged102 there it is. someone always has to come in with “you just didn’t understand it” bc somebody criticized their game
“I wish I could. But I cannot do it. Charles Chatenay needs my help in Saint Denis. And there’s the widow north of Annesburg. And a couple legendary animals…”
Underrated af 😂 “sorry Sadie I got flowers to pick and gay artists to make out with”
Sorry, i need to get the m1899 pistol.
“Dorky hipster Arthur don’t exist”
My man:
how do you get glasses for arthur?
@@alexmolyneux130 why'em dlc mods
@@ShiraiRyu0 which one? Rampage? Way to be vague
@@jinsakai409 mod is literally called WhyEms Dlc
@@Channel9iNE lol I thought he was just talking funny
I can’t take this video seriously with Arthur looking like that💀💀
U would say that micah 😒
@@MRSARATAKI I wrote that comment as myself not Micah😂
@@MicahBellThe3rd Sure sure, you rat...
What shop can you buy those specs at…..I hope it’s not an online exclusive only ad-on
You rat! :D
The dorky drip is cute on Arthur
He got that "🤓" style
Looks like the "Candy Man" (Sam Hyde)
Nah he looks liwkey badass just in a different way from the rest of the outfits
Bro peddles coke into Miami
@@lufsolitaire5351 fr
While I agree that the honorable thing to do would be to dissuade sadie from taking revenge, by this point, we know how high strung she is; she was going no matter what. So it becomes a choice of letting her go alone or going with her to help and make sure she doesn't get herself killed. It's a more complicated decision then just honorable or not. In the end, it's up to the player to decide what feels right to them.
That's missing the point. Regardless if she's swayed off revenge or not, it's still honorable on Arthur's part to help a friend off a path of self-destruction than enabling them on it, which while isn't wrong neither in this case, shouldn't be the more honorable option imo. And what makes it frustrating is it's NOT exactly up to us to decide what feels right. Because the devs tell you what they think is right, whichever decision you take by gaining or losing you honor.
@@themadtitan7603Exactly right.
Exactly why they should have left the honor stuff out of it imo
@@themadtitan7603 this is the second comment of yours I’m replying to , I think you care to much about what the devs think and trying to play the “cannon” way , what makes this game so great is it’s LITERALLY up to you how you choose to play the game that’s why they give you the options to choose your own path , if they wanted you to do everything their way they wouldn’t of gave you different options and outcomes depending on how you decide to play
And when the player decides, they get punched in the dick for not choosing the option rockstar wanted them too.
Chess master, 1970s philosophy teacher Arthur is definitely a mood 🧐
i like how she says in one of the dialogues that O'Driscolls turned her into a monster, even though she acts the exact same way as she did in Red Dead Online.
I think because her husband Jake was alive and since it was just them two out there and that they had been robbed multiple times, she had that “I’ll kill you” guard if she thought the player were to rob them too. But when the Odriscolls showed up in the story, they killed Jake and that’s what made her go insane.
@@Xaptlas i get your point, but it's not going to change my mind about RDO being nonsense.
She truly is an awfully written character.
@@youngtally2677 “my husband and i, we shared the work. All of it”
Also sadie: “I Ain’t chopping vegetables for a Living!”
Also also sadie: *becomes a professional gunslinger the first actual mission she is part of*
Also also also sadie: *belittles everyone afterwards in Camp and missions, driven by revenge to kill Colom O’driscoll, but doesnt want to when it comes to it? Then Proceeds yet again to get angry and kill the O’driscoll’s either Way? Also all her missions are goofy asf, Got some poor guy killed Got some information for a public hanging… You know… Public? She Got a dude killed for public information is stupid. Is constantly a one army woman, with Arthur. They feature the cringiest scene ever thanking her for “saving” the gang members back after the bank Robbery, Because they needed to thank her for something in the game, to include her in more rushed stuff, John only Got captured so sadie could get another mission that Arthur and her end up saving John. To then Arthur getting scolded by Dutch and not sadie too? Yeah… is stupid and she is a literal Mary sue.
rockstar retcon. she was useless at the start of the main story for like 3 chapters
Arthur lookin like Teddy Roosevelt in the trenches.
Why does Arthur look like that guy from Jurassic Park
The most enjoyable part of watching RDR2 videos is seeing all the different Arthurs out there. This one is definitely interesting!
I have NEVER seen this scene. It would kill me to see her reaction.
She seems to take it ok. She even appreciates our honesty and goes on with it, going ahead and surviving a solo assault on a big O'Driscoll hideout anyway.
@@themadtitan7603you kidding? She was heartbroken that her friend abandoned her. She was damn near tearing up dawg
Man whenever Arthur says that revenge piece it always makes me thinking, the entire plot of red dead would’ve been different if Sadie,John and Jack would heed his words.
John wouldn’t have been found
@andrewbondurant8513 the pinkertons would have found John even if he didn't go after micha.
I mean he bought a huge peice of farm property next to Blackwater, all they would have had to do was look at the files and see that it was John who owned that farm.
@andrewbondurant8513 the pinkertons would have found John even if he didn't go after micha.
I mean he bought a huge peice of farm property next to Blackwater, all they would have had to do was look at the files and see that it was John who owned that farm.
@@jackbluehq6653 been awhile since I played the game so correct me if I'm wrong. Didn't John give a fake name to the bank for the property ownership?
@Korean_jesus69 he did but they immediately knew he was lying
John was terrible at keeping his fake name and slipped many times so it was worthless lying
Damn, even the devs were simping for Sadie.
And I guess that's why they chose for you what's the right or wrong choice whenever you're with her. Like this and also the mission where you spare Cleet and she just shoots him anyway because that's what Sadie wants.
@@themadtitan7603 That moment with Cleet genuinely pissed me off. I chose to spare him, he ditched the life because he realised that what him and Micah were doing was wrong. Sadie (Who somehow had even less development than a random side character) took that choice away from me because Rockstar decided that she is always in the right no matter what she does.
@@youngtally2677 Yeah, it really bothered me that Cleet's death is glossed over so readily. The only one of Micah's men that had the gumption to leave after realizing that he was a child murdering lunatic, and we're just supposed to accept that Sadie killing him in cold blood is cool because blind revenge is alright when she does it.
@@YorkJonhson I really think Sadie shouldve died in the epilogue. Her story shouldve concluded with her getting completely blinded by vengeance and it catching up to her in some way.
Heck maybe she could've gone so far as to think that John went soft, then maybe she attempts to kill him in her irrational rage.
@YoungTally That would have been so much more impactful if she had gotten taken out like Sean did but in the epilogue or even last mission, no speeches, no warning, just dead. And you could go even further and do a GTA IV style thing where if you choose revenge then after or during the mission she is killed, so the games message of revenge being a fools game could have come full circle. Or the inverse where you choose to leave Micah behind and then Charles dies, and in that moment Sadie swears off revenge after seeing one of her only friends get killed like that, and after the last mission plays out like normal she would be a remorseful shell of herself who still plans on going to South America or wherever, but it would be heavily implied she didn't want to come back save for on a wooden box.
The game could have done all that and more but there were devs that decided that Sadie-Sue needed her time in the spotlight and needed to be #girlboss instead of anything close to realistic.
Honestly, the way I see it is that Arthur helping Sadie get her revenge is to ensure she's protected and safe. It makes more sense for him to convince her to stop, but if she's not going to, he'd gladly go.
any excuse to simp for arthur *insert skull emoji*
@@GLKHD For any other character, it would be simping. For Arthur, it's just one of those things.
@@TheAwesomeDarkNinja"How come everytime I get into trouble, I'm called a fool and an idiot? But when you get in trouble, oh it's just one of them things?"
Not gladly.
@@GLKHDJust use the skull emoji bro you‘re not different just cringe
I agree, on my first playthrough I decided to refuse to help Sadie, and I remember being confused on why I lost honor, I was like: "wait, revenge is a luxury we can't afford, but now all of a sudden it's okay??" Then on my later playthroughs I helped her, but still I found it kinda weird first time I played
Well the honour system in Red Dead 2 has no consistency. I can light up Valentine like the 4th of July, but magically saying “hello Mr” to anyone gains me honour???
It reminds me of the wanted system and how broken it is where an NPC will spot you kill a guy even if no one was around 4s ago.
In theory both systems are fine in concept, but in the way they implement it, it’s inconsistent and downright makes no logical sense
There's nothing weird about this,she needs your help,because she only trust in you,you shouldn't think about the whole context of revenge because it's her decision to make,she's desperate and it's personal for her and she's asking for help from a friend,at this point you don't think about the gang,revenge or anything,you think about what she's feeling,so the right choice it's simple,help her,it's a moral choice that require some level of maturity I guess.
@@shadowagent6051 Uh. No. She doesn't get to get atomized treatment. Revenge is a luxury they can't afford. Fuck sadie
@@squidlytv ,That's your opinion not Arthur's,and this have nothing to do with the gang or the meaning of revenge,it's about loyalty to a friend that trust you the most in the gang asking a simple personal request,and Arthur is loyal,so the right choice still remains the same,help her,either you like it or not.
@@shadowagent6051 while I can see where you're coming from this is a complex issue
Sadie shouldn't be going out killing out of revenge and arthur standing by her enables that behavior
Though it is still morally good to make sure she's okay in her time of need and there's little wrong with fighting Odriscols it's irresponsible and greedy of her to put herself and Arthur's life on the line to fight an already dying gang when they need to be there for everyone else
It's very weird how Sadie is never reprimanded for how bloodthirsty she gets, she suffered from the o'drisscols but so has Arthur and Dutch, Dutch is criticised when he loses his cool and Arthur doesn't let it get to him, but Sadie just gets to be a psycho? It's odd
I will never forgive her for killing my Balloon Buddy. She couldn't stay in control for even an hour. She's insane.
I agree, when Sadie loses her cool and murders a bunch of people it's supposed to be an empowering moment for her, taking revenge on the gang that wronged her.
Yet one of the game's central themes is that revenge is a fool's game, and you should let things go. Sadie constantly takes revenge, including during Colm's hanging where she gets exactly what she wants and still loses it and starts a gunfight in a crowded area, undoubtedly getting some innocents killed, and we're supposed to just not question it and it's literally never brought up again.
like the feud between dutch and odrisscols is constantly being told to be stopped by arthur and even micah because revenge is not their way and dutch lost the women he loved to odrisscol so yeah the fact when its sadie its okay but everyone else its bad is just one of the many reasons i dont like her she just breaks the narrative and immersion so much
@julian marx been waiting for someone to say this😩
@julian marx One of the only comments in a very long time to offer an even more unique “non-normie” take. Although, because of the lack of scolding from other characters and how some of the gameplay mechanics react with Sadie-related missions (like getting honor for supporting a psycho) I think R* definitely was working to fill the “blue check mark” criteria- It is very interesting how the Revenge Theme still comes full circle, either by accident and irony, or very well “cloaked” writing.
Great comment, man!
I think its alright losing honor in this mission. Just talk to 3-4 folks and its restored.
"Hey there mister!"
- R e d e m p t i o n-
Pay 20 bucks to the camp and it's also restored
It's not alright. People aren't annoyed that they lost a tiny bit of good karma. They're annoyed because at this point in the game the game has already encouraged you to redeem yourself and not to behave like a psycho. For the whole game you're told revenge is bad. Then you're punished for taking the hint. They should have had this quest waaay sooner when it would have made more sense. I'm getting mixed signals. Is revenge bad or is it not?
Arthur got that Cheech and Chong vibe.
We smoking dog shit man!? 🚬 💩
Zaza 🌿🌿🌿
that arthur design is definitely something, it isn’t bad i just never thought i would see arthur in that
He looks like that one uncle from other town that your parents want you to go ride with them
You have got to be the only person in this game who has made the glasses look good, it’s a very unique Arthur but I actually really like it.
Ngl it would actually be great if you gained honor for not helping and lost honor for helping. It would create a bigger moral dilemma in the player, having to decide whether to help a friend knowing it's wrong or deciding not to for a good reason.
There are two types of men:
"Vengeance is a fool's game"
"Vengeance is hereby mine"
A big thing people don’t usually consider is that the honor is also in perspective of Arthur’s feelings on the situation, he doesn’t know that Sadie will come back, he doesn’t want his friend riding off on her own to what could be death, and he feels like a coward for not going with her.
Why does Arthur looks like he is not coming with Sady because he has a shift at Starbucks?
Rockstar's honor system is really weird. In RDR there is a guy who is beating a woman and killing said guy will give you low Honor, but giving him $200 is high Honor? What's worse is that giving him 200 results in the woman to get killed later. So the whole decision feels and sounds like a Low Honor decision on paper but is framed as a high Honor decision.......
The high honor system is very pick and choose. In this scene they went with the mentality of "oh, but you're not helping a friend" despite the fact that in any other situation, foregoring the violent or revenge option would be the honorable thing to do than help a deranged, liability of a person on a self-destructive path she's already set on.
@@themadtitan7603 ur literally everywhere
@@ab_077 Of course he's everywhere, he's Thanos.
And that time where in a random event if you tell the guy who's looking for another guy hiding you lose honor, but if you don't tell him you gain honor but the guy dies anyways inside of the toilet. But maybe it's because if you tell the angry guy where he was you lose it because you're the reason he ends up being killed but if you don't say anything he dies out of his own mistakes of literally entering INSIDE of the toilet just to hide. Still wish we could have saved him tho and then upon the angry guy's reaction of seeing us helping him, he cursed at us while unsuccessfully chasing after the other guy who escaped lol. Holy shit this comment is long 😭😭😂😂.
What interaction is this ?
I was so sick of killing people at that point, and Arthur saying that revenge is a fools game, I immediately declined her offer. I felt like Arthur at this point, sick and tired of everything.
what do you mean you were sick of killing people? it's a video game about a criminal gang. you know what you signed up to 😂
@@EOh-ew2qf The game literally guides you away from being an A hole stupid.
Sadie-“help”
Arthur-“no”
Sadie-“okay”
Arthur-“ so I know I just told you no to helping you with something important to you, but could you help me with something important to me”
Spitting straight facts only for Rockstar to give you the angry bell
Literally though
Arthur looks like an iq 200+ James Bond villian 😂
That’s the kind of Arthur that would travel the country looking for the best craft breweries
God Red Dead 2 truly has some of the greatest most gripping most in-depth deep character story telling I’ve ever seen in any medium.
i think here there should be an extra option, because like this feel just an incomplete dialogue. Let me explain: Arthur know that sadie is stubborn, and know like he said that ''they are more ghost than people'', so he know that getting revenge is the only thing that matter to her, she doesn't care to survive, she want to kill the people that have destroyed her life. Deciding to not help her means that you let her alone, to fight alone and probably dying alone. By doing that you literally let down a friend. But...here's the point about the ''incomplete dialogue'': i think that trying to persuade Sadie is the right decision, Arthur always said ''revenge is a fool's game'', and trying to convince her to not go for that path is the most in line with arthur moral code thing to do, but, at the same time, the high honor arthur wouldn't let sadie go alone. There should have been an extra option if you choose to persuade her to not go, and that is to follow her and help her anyway. Not for giving her the revenge, but for saving a friend. So, i understand why they give you low honor for not helping sadie, but at the same time, this game dialogue feels incomplete, leaved like this.
I legit died when the camera turned on Arthur
"Revenge is a fool's game" ~ Arthur Morgan and that is literally cannon
Funny thing is Dutch said it first, not Arthur.
And Sadie did the Black Bell thing at the end👍🏻
"I don't have it in me no more" - Arthur, Librarian
Arthur looks like if he survived rdr2 and got a new life and became like a writer or something
I unironically love this look for Arthur, even if it ultimately doesn't match his personality.
Sadie is the best friendly villain we've ever met.
I think that's what a Anti-Hero is.
My heart dropped when I saw that honor decrease you see I was trying to be a good man in my first paly through.
he looks like a retired songwriter or British rockstar that has gone through some lifechanges
I kinda wish rockstar would have not shown the honour system to the player but still had it affect the ending. I know they had it in the first game also but they changed things in that one too like the fame bar. Playing the game without feeling obligated to think about gaining or losing honour on every action would have improved the gameplay imo
A side point but it’s not as if you’d even be blind until the ending as it shows you through the spirit animals and through Arthur’s motives whether he has high or low honour
Game: Revenge is bad
Also Game: Help this lady to get her revenge or you are bad.
Sometimes I jus make decisions based on gameplay, let's say that's a mission I want to play, I will make my decision regardless of honor.
I did accept in my playthrough, simply because I didn't want to miss out on the mission.
Arthur dripped down to the socks like its raining, gyatt dam!!!
Honestly picking up Sadie was the worst mistake they made she got the gang needing more money casing arthur to have to talk to downes they shoulda let member go instead of letting loyal friends risk there lives everyday
I think it’s because Rockstar spent hours and money animating the shootout sequence that they want players to pick that option more otherwise it would have been for nothing. Ofc many players would still choose to take revenge with Sadie but the majority would not.
That’s a pretty petty reason on Rockstar’s part to lower a player’s honor. Oh well, game developers have done worst when it comes to trolling the players.
Maybe they’re saying that it would be better to stay with her as a friend and not leave her to do this alone. Typically, when people fall into this sort of thinking, it is the people around them that support them and help them change for the better. Not going with Sadie is telling her that she has no one left in a way.
Everytime i see a red dead video people still amaze me with the outfits on Arthur. I would've never thought that those round glasses can look good on him
My arthur is a stoic. "Revenge is a fool's game" my consensus for letting her go alone was that "SHE" wanted to kill them to the last man(changed or not, probably has men like kieran in the gang) which was needless and I wasn't ready to go through with more bloodshed as arthur... the game had a toll on me on that part. And I figured it was more empowering this way.
Arthur look different everytime I see him 😂😂😂
Arthur got the Jeffery Dahmer drip💀
Out of all the different Arthurs I’ve seen, this one is my favorite
this is the arthur that uses happiness as a warm gun
cursed Artur fit
Better to lose honor than to lose yourself.
Agreed. People act like it's a travesty that some will decline her and lose honor but so? You only some honor not all of it and will still get the ideal ending.
Arthur killed dozens, maybe even hundreds of O'Driscolls. And now refusing killing a bunch of them is something hypocritical to me. Considering that it was important to her, it is also selfish. Words about revenge being a fool's game are absurd. Revenge was all she got left, because she lost everything. Revenge is usually normal. And she would avenge her husband by any means necessary. There is no way stopping her. You lose honor for letting her alone
Arthur be looking like a mysterious 1850s archaeologist who found some cursed artifact and than died for mysterious reasons
I can't understand people who are so cold-hearted as to turn Sadie down at this point of the game....I just can't.
Why did Arthur remind me of Zeke
I guess it’s mainly based off you not helping a friend, as opposed to, not acting out a revenge mission. But still, I kind of agree
No one talking how arthur looks like a librarian who would smoke a bibe near a fire
Fr cuz i chose not to because arthur is clearly tired of all the killing, he just wants to be kind and do good for the rest of the time that he's alive. Not only that, but he's already killed hundreds of O' driscolls throughout the game. I chose not to in my first playthrough but immediately felt like i missed out
The most dorkiest looking Arthur yet.
legit LOL
Wish they added those shades in the online because I've been asking for cool sunglasses for awhile now
Arthur looking like his going to Sing "Imagine"
İ don't know, why people think like that. Arthur killed dozens, maybe even hundreds of O'Driscolls. And now refusing killing a bunch of them is something hypocritical to me. Considering that it was important to her, it is also selfish. Words about revenge being a fool's game are absurd. Revenge was all she got left, because she lost everything. Revenge is usually normal. And she would avenge her husband by any means necessary. There is no way stopping her. You lose honor for letting her alone. Good Arthur WOULD help her, not for revenge, but to look after her and don't let her go on a dangerous mission by herself.
I’ve actually been under the assumption that the bad ending to Arthur’s story is the true ending because John never mentions him in the first game… if u think about it if Arthur was this man who tried his best and John respected him so much in the good honor ending, wouldn’t he call back to him from time to time? In the bad ending Arthur pretty much sais fk John and everyone I’m going for the money, and John rides off to be with his family, dialogue shows that he looked back at Arthur in a darker way and doesn’t mention him… fast foward to rdr1 and he’s never mentioned. I think Arthur was a bad dude in the end.. sure the happy ending is what we want but Maby not the true ending
The bad ending makes absolutely no sense though… Arthurs all but dead anyway and he knows it. He has no need for all that money
or maybe because Arthur didn’t exist in 2010
@@Austin.Kilgore u gotta think of all that woulda led up to that moment, Maby he was just selfish, maby in the end he was just grasping at straws and said fk it il just go for the money I’m a piece of sht anyway, remember the bad ending Arthur is almost a completely different character with different morals and values, it’s not as simple as oh I’m going to be logical and not take money because I’m dying that just doesn’t make sense…
@@lightbluej9411 or Maby that’s just having a lack of an imagination and can’t think beyond a story just being a story and just bringing real life facts into it to just conclude an end point… he is part of the story now and trying to find a reason why is not only fun but makes the story more interesting… I get ur point dnt get me wrong but at the same time, the 2 story’s exist now
@@VvVN91 Arthur never being mentioned is addressed in the prologue.
What I love about RDR2 is that everyone’s Arthur is different
This mission and Arthur kicking Strauss was the biggest contradiction to the final build up of Redemption for Arthur
Choosing this option was one of the hardest decisions I had Arthur make, but I don’t regret it. It felt true to his arc. It made sense that Sadie would be disappointed, but she remained Arthur’s friend, and John’s.
Authur's loyalty to the gang and the ones related to it is author's honor, not only that, but he denied to help Sadie only to then ask for her help, I feel like they made the right the call
I disagree. Arthur's loyalty to the gang in this case would be to stick with them when they're at their most vulnerable and to try to sway one of them (Sadie) off a self-destructive path regardless if she's convinced or not. Additionally, Arthur isn't asking her to help him but John, Jack and Abigail who the latter she already knows and likes so it's a less harder favor on her part than what she's asking him. Someone who's already sick and doesn't believe in revenge.
@@themadtitan7603 but she's asking him to help her kill the rest of the O'Driscolls letting her do that by herself is insane
@@themadtitan7603 especially when they were the ones who brought Sadie into the gang
It’s really cool how much you can alter the way Arthur looks. He looks like an accountant here lol
This Arthur looks as if he was a retired man in his early sixties who wants nothing than peace, but his past keeps chasing him... and I really like that
I think you lose honor as you dishonor a friendship between you and sadie and knowing you are not there leads sadie kiing them all by herself and breaking down crying afterwards by herself all the more tragic, making arthur be there lessens the blow and allow her to open up to him, I try to think of the honor system as something of what arthur would consider honor not good and bad but, because he was pretty much dead anyway. He tries and bring love to all those who will help fufill his purpose to get john and family to safety
Correct, this was far deeper than his "code". People forget he agrees to do a bank robbery later on in the Chapter. He's gone good, but he didn't become an angel.
Sam Hyde drip
Arthur looking like my barista
Are the glasses and the hat modded or where do you find them in the game?
Arthur looking like he’s about to rob the bank of Spain
The reason why Arthur would go with her is because he’s helping a loyal and close friend. Sadie had helped Arthur a lot during their time with each other.
If Arthur doesn’t help a friend who has demons to deal with and is asking him for help because she trusts him, he’s not only proving himself as a bad man, but a horrible friend too who she can’t rely on when she needs help.
Besides, it’s not like Arthur had regret killing the O’driscolls or lost honor by doing so. He just didn’t care about killing them cuz they didn’t pose any threat to him anymore and they were hardly a gang either. Meaning he didn’t care whether they were alive or not because at that point they were irrelevant after Colm was killed.
And besides, Sadie trusted Arthur and asked for her help. What those O’driscolls did to her and her husband, it made an honest sense to this showing that she had lost everything she ever knew and cared for. And she trusted Arthur to help her. That’s the whole reason you got honor. You’re helping a friend who’s in desperate need to take care of their demons.
Low Honor Arthur wouldn’t care about Sadie’s help in need. High Honor Arthur cares about Sadie and intends to help as much as possible with those that need help. That was his entire goal with High Honor and in Chapter 6. He wanted to help folk while he still had time left.
This ^
It's not about killing or not killing the gang members, rather than ensuring Saddie stays alive or leaving her to fight alone.
By killing the gang members it's exactly what it sounds like. Just because your doing it to save someone, killing all of the O'Driscoll's is killing the O'Driscoll's it's as simple as it sounds.
At first, I loved Sadie. But the St. Dennis hanging totally changed that, and from that point forward her character just got worse.
There is more to “honor” that right or wrong, zen or revenge. Like Sadie said, the O’Driscol gang took everything from them and are generally the most dispacable group of outlaws in the game. And Author knows he hasn’t got much time left anyway so there’s nothing realistically keeping him from helping Sadie. Honestly, after what they have been through together it would just wouldn’t be right not to help, even if revenge is a fool’s errand. Sometimes you just have to be supportive.
I take it that you lose honor because you are asking for a favor without helping her with hers. Just a guess
It's about loyalty, loyalty to who is loyal to him.
Arthur looks like he's going to invent a better printing press after this.
no its the fact that your helping sadie that matters that matters to rockstar and to arthur
It's because Rockstar looked at it from a simplistic "you declined to help a friend" perspective instead of seeing you also stuck to Arthur's beliefs. It's not that it doesn't matter to Arthur to help Sadie, a friend. It's revenge that doesn't matter to him and in fact he thinks it's a lost cause. Him sticking to his "morals" while also convincing Sadie should've been the high honor option or preferably, make them both neutral.
@@themadtitan7603 He doesn't dislike revenge for moral reasons though, he simply doesn't think it's worth the risk, especially given their situation through most of the game. In fact, Arthur very obviously does not have a strict moral code to stand in, it's one of the main themes in the game. The thing is, it's pretty obvious that by that point of the game there's not much left for him to protect from the risks of revenge, so telling Sadie "no" here would have just been abandoning her during her emotional climax and betraying his choice of just helping everyone he can before he dies, which just doesn't sound like Arthur to me.
@@panic.betrayer Morals wasn't the right term. I meant beliefs, Arthur is far from an upstanding, moral guy, but he has a code that he lives by that was formed from his experiences and lessons learned from Dutch. He reiterates multiple times that revenge is a fool's errand and a lost cause that they don't even have the luxury to afford as he always favored to focus on their survival.
That's what he's doing here, being strong for the gang when at their most vulnerable and when they can't use more unnecessary bloodshed and attention since that's what got them here in the first place. They also already killed many O'Driscolls and saw their leader, Colm, swing. So it just seems like this is more of the same.
Now I think helping Sadie here makes sense and I don't think should've been the low honor choice neither, but I also disagree with the game's decision to have lose honor for declining her when Arthur had reasons not to and didn't just do it out of apathy for her circumstances.
Losing honor here makes perfect sense. This reminds me of the Indian elder who tried to dissuade his son in front of the entire Indian marching force. That speech only accelerated the violence because the elder supplied all the reasons to fight. If he wouldn’t have gotten involved, Dutch might have declined to fight alongside the Indians. And realizing that they couldn’t fight alone, the Indians might have reconsidered their plan to storm the oil rigs. Dutch knows that he needs to lay low. He knows he must conserve his men for the great escape he was planning. It’s likely that he would have refused to help the Indians. But after the elder indicates that Arthur is already invested in the tribe’s welfare, Dutch decides to ride with them at Arthur’s behest. He didn’t like that Arthur went behind his back because it complicated matters. What could’ve been an opportunity to defuse a risky situation with the Indians became an honorable march on the oil rig. We know Dutch is dishonorable. He wanted to regard or disregard the Indians according to his own judgements.
Not helping Sadie is what Dutch would have done. But Arthur is different. He wants to see the people around him achieve their goals. Accompanying Sadie on a final march against the O’Driscolls would be very meaningful for the both of them. It would prove to Sadie that he means business about getting John, Abigail, and Jack out of the gang. And it would be an honor for Arthur to ride, with guns blazing, for a good cause. After all, someone has to stop the O’Driscolls from causing any more harm to innocent people.
Careful not to hurt yourself with those mental gymnastics, my dude.
I fundamentally disagree. Dutch would've helped the Wapiti tribe and even maybe Sadie, not because he genuinely cares or out of decency, but because their goals are common. He was already helping the Wapiti up to the point Eagle Files came to the camp with his calvary so I don't know why you think he wouldn't. And him and Sadie teamed up to ensure Colm was hanged, so given his end goal wasn't even to go to some haven and retire but to cause as much chaos and to fight for the free outlaw life, I can see him accepting to help her as an excuse to have one last shot at the O'Driscolls after their leader died.
Also Arthur isn't killing the O'Driscolls to make sure they don't hurt anymore innocents, he and the gang were already doing that. He might be redeeming himself, but he's not some hero in Chapter 6 neither. He went with Sadie purely to help her and to fulfill their "deal" of her helping the Marstons in exchange. Which isn't even necessary considering if you decline to help her, she accepts anyway.
Dutch was not going to follow Sadie into battle. He didn’t care about wiping out the O’Driscolls, and he didn’t care about helping Eagle Flies. Dutch wanted to manipulate the Indians into causing enough of a distraction for his gang to slip away from the Pinkertons. He was purely pragmatic in his dealings with the natives, so it seems possible that he might’ve preferred to have them attack the Army and the oil rigs on their own. But Arthur’s motivation to help Sadie is a different story. He wasn’t being entirely pragmatic about going with Sadie. She’d help him with the Marstons anyway. We know that from this video. He goes for a different reason. He goes to do good.
Where'd you get thay jacket
Thats not Arthur. Thats Marty Meierotto
This is the mission that really made me fall in love with Sadie. I couldn’t imagine skipping it. “He was a good man, my Jakey” 😫
Ugh
@@longebane what?
@@nonbasicz Sadie is a woman doing shit and that upsets them greatly
@@ArousedRat1 starting to realize Sadie has alot of haters. I thought she was one of the most popular characters lmfao
@@nonbasicz same lmao