I LOVE shooting the SCAR. The only problem is that using the .308 version at the range makes EVERYONE hate you. It shakes the ground and everyone stops shooting to see what the hell is causing the earthquake lol I think using the SCAR-H .308 is a better option because it's an amazing battle rifle for getting that extra firepower while the 5.56 version could easily be replaced by any M-4 which everyone already has. I've tried shooting the .308 as fast as possible and by the end of two magazines just dicking around like that my head hurt, my teeth were rattling, and I can imagine a couple more magazines would have me bleeding from the eyes, ears, and nose.
@@calholli can't handle 80k PSI that's the reasoning for most sig Sauer fanboys. but hey if you can achieve the same ballistics with less powder like you can with polymer I don't see why this was never adopted it should have been adopted in my opinion
i think it takes a lot of time to develop, in theory it sounds great, but in reality probably the polymer casings have many unforseen flaws that have to be encountered first in order to fix, through testing
@@ommsterlitz1805 because it is essentially an optimized 7.62x51 - much better ballistic performance and can easily hit accurately out to 1200 meters- which is why the SOCOM s now getting their Mk 20 mod 0 Sniper Support Rifle in 6.5 Creedmoor 'FN Mk. 20 SSR in 6.5mm Creedmoor, and determined that the 6.5mm Creedmoor chambering performed the best, doubling hit probability at 1,000 meters, increasing effective range by at least 40 percent, reducing wind drift by 30 to 40 percent, and retaining 30 percent more energy, all with significantly less recoil than standard, 7.62mm rounds' - so why that round? Because it's superior to 7.62x51 - and SOCOM knows it.
@@rhubarbpie2027 I haven't put the kinds of round counts Tim does, and I'm still on a learning curve with shooting at distance - so I'm slower & more deliberate about it and haven't had any issues to speak of - but I'm sure it can happen - although to be fair to the SCAR, I've had small issues with most of my guns at times. I built mine up from a basic SCAR H ), Super SCAR trigger, a German steel fluted heavy barrel etc - it's not a 20S - don't know if that makes any difference or not.
@@TheGmanway it isn't. Like the original comment says the bolt is very long and it seems like long stroke piston but there is a smaller piston at the front which strikes the bolt to open it.
@@corvoattano4777 It would probably have to extend even further to be a long stroke. Since it's a short stroke that means theirs a gap between the BCG and the piston actually. So the BCG would be even longer then.
A nice thing that may help the SCAR series would be doing the 6.8 conversion, letting it stay in service as it is the same ammunition as the M5 and M250.
@@steakwilliams4448 without knowing the details of the M5, I'll say the the SCAR is only surpassed by one other tested firearm in sheer numbers without stoppages. So without knowing, I'd venture a guess and say pretty damn well.
I can only speak for my own experience, but I love mine. Lightweight, easy to do follow up shots and target transition easily for a 762, outside the weight of mags, its heft to me is closer to an AK than a battle rifle. An aftermarket trigger has made it easier to be accurate with it, haven't done any other major changes. Mine is the reciprocating gen but ive had zero issues with it. Cleaning is a breeze and I have gradually got rid most of my DI rifles over short stroke pistons. I think if the new, non reciprocating gens came with angled and extended handles, that'd be nice.
The reciprocating charging handle really only bugged me when I shot it from a barricade. It got caught on my sleeve and it slowed it down enough to fail to go into battery (wasn't mine so I didn't expect that). I'm considering getting one with the non-reciprocating when my wallet feels comfortable with it. It's just such a great looking rifle, and even if SOCOM doesn't like it, you can't deny it's an iconic weapon of the GWOT time period.
@@laraycrenshaw5908 The ak isn’t considered a battle rifle because it shoots an intermediate cartridge, 7.62x39. Battle rifles shoot full power cartridges like 7.62x51, which is a little bigger and more powerful than the 7.62x39
One of the issues with the SCAR's wasn't that the SCAR's optic mounting solution, the issue was that the barrels screws work their way lose over time which would make your fire inaccurate. Check out 9-Hole Review on the SCAR H and L.
plastic ammo, in combination with plastic links like we're seeing in Ukraine, would be an awesome addition for SAW roles. they could shed a lot of weight or carry considerably more ammo, along with way less muzzle flash giving away their position.
Great video! I have a SCAR 16s &17s. I love them both equally. I’m always glad to see the SCAR get love. Minor nit-pick: it’s not a long stroke piston like an AK or PWS. It’s a short stroke. The piston travels a very short distance and hits the bold carrier. The bolt carrier makes the full cycle.
Few things in life are more fun than rapid fire 308's and the SCAR-17 is my favorite. HK-93 was great, really great, but the SCAR is even better. Load up some quality rounds with a suppressor on the SCAR and blast that 20 round mag as fast as you can. Then you can go back to target shooting 1 gal. jugs of water or whatever, just remember to always shoot this after your .22's, 9mm, and 5.56 first because once you go 7.62, you don't want to go back down the ladder of banging and blasting those little peashooters.
Same. I love my 7.62x39 5.56, 5.45, ext but something for me that I adore is 7.62x54R weather in the Mosin or the SVD. Honestly the mosin is what does it. To feel the power and hear the sound is just beautiful. Just fun rifles to plink with.
The reason why M4 barrels were melting and blowing up at the time was because of a QC issue at Colt. By the time FN had finished the SCAR-L model, not only had the QC issue at Cold had been rectified, but all M4s moving forward would have a heavy profile barrel to prevent those issues from happening again. Also SOCOM had gotten the Block II M4s in stock from Daniel Defense and they were more accurate than the SCAR-L and just as reliable. So there was no need for it anymore. As for why the SCAR-H became popular, well it was so much better than the M14 variants (Mk 14 EBR and M39 EMR) but also because the M110 SASS rifle was having issues in the field and the higher ups wouldn't let Knights Armament fix them or upgrade them. So they adopted the SCAR-H for a DMR role, even when the M110 was more accurate, didn't destroy optics, and could be made cheaper than the SCAR through their existing contract with Knights.
What’s the word on the M-4’s breaking so many locking lugs with the higher pressure 855A1 ammo. Is there a fix or upgrade? All I got was babble from the contractors at the Ft Jackson weapons pool.
@@blackhawk7r221 Not quite sure if I heard anything about M855A1 rounds affecting locking lugs, but I do know it had feeding issues and those were were fixed by adopting a new aluminum magazine as well as Gen 3 PMAGs. Other than that, any parts wear that happens people have to suck up.
@@chaoschaoforever Yea, the tan mags with baby blue followers that went out about 2012 have the improved lip angle to keep the sharp tungsten tips from stabbing the back of the chamber. We’ve been cracking off lugs for years with this 64,000 psi 855A1 ammo. We keep hearing rumors of a fix, but nothing yet. Just thought you may have heard something.
@@blackhawk7r221 Nah man sorry, I haven't heard anything. I think the only thing they could do is beef up those lugs as well as the bolts to be able to withstand those pressures but seeing as the XM5 is right around the corner I highly doubt they will do anything. Personally I think the 5.56 round is at its limit and we should be moving to a round like 6ARC which can fit in a normal PMAG just fine. I don't think the XM5 firing 6.8x51 is the right way to go, but I do think we've finally seen the limits of the 5.56 round.
That video you made months ago I loved that video on the new polymer ammunition and I was facinated with all the scientific complexity attributes that was thru out that gun as well as the ammo.
@@ctakitimu yea and he was exceptionally skilled. He was on a HALO sniper team out of 7th group. He was training me on all the high speed weapons they had that regular army didn't have much of at the time..good times. Prolly around 2008 actually, little bit ago...
Scar is an excellent weapon. I’ve used it to engage enemies countless times in battlefield 4. It’s never let me down and I appreciate the extra power and accuracy for longer engagements.
Perfect timing for this video, I was in Vegas and had the chance to visit Battlefield Vegas where I shot the SCAR-L I very much enjoyed this rifle and had a great time with it.
Yep, a massive and long bolt carrier. A very smart key design aspect I must say. Even better with the new NRCH version, the 'charging handle slider' keeps the system closed during firing and when the bolt is holding open. At the same time preserve the service life of charging handles.
Here's an unpopular opinion: True Velocity and their plastic ammo are the next dragon skin armor. Using very clever marketing to rile civilians up, while the military bypassed it for very good reasons that nobody wants to accept. This ammo is way too expensive currently and will never be adopted by the military until the civilian market uses it over brass. edit: also the gas/suppressor issue is no longer a thing with modern 3d printed suppressors
@manny022 It's polymer cases, not polymer bullets. Unless you're talking about cases ricocheting, which isn't a problem I've ever heard of anyone having.
True Velocity ammo is expensive bc they don't have economy of scale. You are a small company competing against traditional brass case manufacturers who had paid off their machinery cost 100 years ago and perfected logistics. The point that True Velocity was trying to make is that their ammo has the potential to be cheaper since the material used is much cheaper than brass.
I’ve shot polymer ammo and it’s safe to say there is no difference in Ballistics and carrying a few magazines extra full of Polymer ammo makes no difference in weight as well. I mean unless you’re carrying a whole full backpack of parlor ammo then that’s a different story
Cappy you are doing so well on your channel that you can afford some heavy backup. A full time engineer for sure and possibly a white lab coat, clip board user scientist. You speak good English too. Yo.
July 13, 2022 - I'm happy to see that the military has been fair in evaluating various assault rifles. I think that fact that polymer cased ammunition is being taken seriously is another positive. I remember having to deal with brass after shooting at the range. Reduced weight means more ammo carried by soldiers, and less weight for foot and aircraft resupply. One other thought... How did my wife get in this video.. she said she was going to her mother's house.😁
I would truly like to try that plastic ammo, though it may be expensive and difficult to find. I really love the SCAR rifle and both the 16 and 17 are the best I have ever laid hands on. Now as for the optics, the action of the harmonics of the bolt cycling open and closed is what destroys optics. The only optic I know that can take abuse in normal operational use is the ACOG. There may be others, but the ACOG will take the punishment. There may be others, that I don’t know about, but the ACOG is what makes am used to using with these two rifles. I’d say that anything from Trijicon would do just fine. As far as the charging handle goes, that’s what the Army wanted and FN delivered. We had to train keeping the dynamics of the charging handle in mind and trained around it. I likened it to learning to drive stick shift. As my instructor used to say, “Train hard, fight easy.” I really love the SCAR!
I've been watching this Navy Seal by the name of Coch, he was apart of the Scar program so it's been interesting to hear his experience's. I believe the channel is called Tactical Hyve, I'd recommend you watch a few of Coch's videos, top notch bloke.
SCAR 20S in 6.5CM blows out primers. As in, you better be in a super safe area if it’s your fighting rifle because every mag or so you’ll need complete disassembly.
The SCAR is sexy therefore it is a great firearm. All reported problems are to be ignored...unless you life depends on it. Then you have a waiver to use what works for you. I may be irrational, on certain topics, but I do support your continued breathing. This is the reality of my reasoning on all sexy things I don't have and the ones do. Disclaimer: I don't own a SCAR, have never held one and have no intentions of purchasing one. But that doesn't void anything I have said about the SCAR. Thank You and carry on, carrying on.
imagine switching to polymer cased ammo along with polymer disintegrating links for light machine guns, I don't know the weight difference, but it has to be significant past around 50 rounds
Definately ONE of my favs for sure. I can GUARANTEE YOU.. the hate comes from the elevated price. That’s why homeboys cry MORE than any other..💯. Great breakdown Cappy..
The SIG ammo operates at an entirely new plane of pressure ceiling, it's far more of a "quantum leap" in actual ballistic performance; the True Velocity polymer would simply self-destruct at such a pressure regime. That being said, the military has expressed interest in a reduced power full auto/CQB load for the 6.8x51mm, that kicks more like the training ammo, so there might be a real opportunity for True Velocity to pitch their case design again in the near future.
If they ship it out with squads doing arctic/jungle/desert training and the polymer ammunition holds up. It’s a no brainer. I personally predict 6.8x51 hybrid ammo will be a flop and they’ll just re barrel for 7.62 Nato, polymer ammunition lets you carry more bridges the gap slightly between a 5.56 loadout and a 7.62 load out
@@ChucksSEADnDEAD I hear you buy a 12.4” G3K still puts 147gr FMJ out at 2450fps which is good enough for minute of man to 500yrds. Military ball is susceptible to wind after 600yrds from a full size 308 anyway. On a scale of compromises if they committed to the platform and a 13” barrel then .308 isn’t that bad, its still more than adversary’s AK’s. Plus any necked down .308’s burn out barrels. A newly designated military 125/130gr OTM round with polymer cartridges and a faster powder would be would be my pick even with a much lower BC. Dallas reloads get over 2500fps with 125gr SST from an 11” .308, bump that to 13” and its even better. .277 FURY is ok but the high pressure rounds are too much for the shooters and the weapons.
@@buttyug That's only slightly better than 7.62x39 ballistics. That's a ton of flash and weight to carry for intermediate rifle performance. Better than AK is not a tough hurdle to clear. You want to be better not just in ballistics but also recoil, low flash, weight, etc. 6.8X51 at least justifies its weight and recoil by blowing 7.62x39 NATO out of the water. Even a 2600 fps 7.62 NATO is a compromise. I'd rather have 5.56, almost no recoil and nearly double the ammo. Either give me power and performance, or give me ease of shooting and ammo for days. Trying to sit on the fence just gets you the worst of both worlds and none of the advantages.
I mean the M14 isn’t specifically made for that goal. It’s literally a 1950’s design that’s been retrofitted on an expensive chassis (in its current form)
Yeah, or what if the polymer ammo has so much more energy due to less heat, maybe there is a way to have an even faster fps 5.56 just by switching to that casing? AP?
I once said "nice bit of kit" to a guy carrying a SCAR... his dejected reply was "Heavy bit of kit"..... That is literally all I know, but it seems relevant.
Someplace there's an alternative universe where the advantages of the ACR platform was realized and the 308 version was developed further and eventually swapped to polymer ammo.
Big flash and big bang. That was my memories of shooting 7.62n when I was a boy in cadets. Back when the SA-80 (L85) came out they did a cadet version where you chambered each round. Something to do with the laws back then so it was effectively bolt action assault rifle. (I know dumb right? lol) anyway to my young ears and eyes 5.56 was much nicer to shoot. There is hardly ANY flash with those new rounds. Thanks Chris.
It doesn't store quite as well for decades as the stainless-brass and dealing with a dozen million spent polymer casings per year that cannot be recycled is just not an option. Also, having the chamber not heat up with the barrel causes a massive amount of parts stress.
The manufacturers say the plastic is recyclable and the steel base makes it easy to pick up with a magnet. No more picking up brass bent over with your hands
Simple. Run a large magnet across the ground to pick up the casings to sell the steel as scrap and send the plastic wherever it needs to be. It's plastic so if a spent casing is left outside exposed to the elements it's gonna rot and crumble into dust.
Shot in the dark here: Why not use the projectile profile of "metal storm", and turn the entire case into the projectile, a bit like the gyro-jet, with the firing initiated by a contact pin discharging an electric arc into the base of the round. That would eliminate the "tare" weight of the case, and use the entire mass of the round as the impactor. Together with higher chamber pressure and smaller volume of the more powerful propellant charge, it would have a greater impact compared with traditional rounds. I think....
Hasn't the SCAR 20S in 6.5 Creedmore been out for a while now? I remember looking at it about a year ago. Also heard they delivered a bunch using the 7.62mm firing pin so they punch through the primers frequently.
Chris said "in 2020 will have" when talking about the 20S. I think that might have been old footage because he didn't talk much about the Polymer ammunition, just the scar variants
Cooper is nearly an strategic metal plus expensive nowadays so if you can save Cooper you are saving not only weight but a lot of money. Greetings from Spain
I’ve gotten 50 cal barrels hot enough to instantly melt that high temp polymer as soon as it chambered. Plastic bad for sustained fire machine guns. Fine for shoulder fired weapons.
At the end of the days folks, remember that 20 year old AKs in the ME kill more people every year than anything else. The difference between small arms don’t really matter all that much and the SCAR is a great rifle regardless of the issues described. It just wasn’t worth the cost (few weapons are). It’s really just flatrangers that parse the minute details of these guns. Just use what you like to use!
@@Seth9809 lol of course not. You misunderstood how those two phrases relate. What I’m saying is that the differences don’t really matter. If a piece of shit that lags on all performance indicators and is out of date kills the most people then that supports the idea that the differences don’t really matter.
@@prettyokandy230 of course they should. But between the enfield and the kar98 etc it’s been shown that it probably didn’t matter which you had. WHICH small arm you have doesn’t really matter just as long as you have one.
Riddiculous argument. The fact that people can shoot at each other with weapons left behind by the Soviet Union doesn't mean we shouldn't strive for performance.
Another point is that they had Eotechs on the early blocks of the SCAR. It wouldn't be until nearly a decade later that Eotech/L3 admitted that their sights were drifting and failing on all rifles. Because they thought Eotechs were gtg, the rifles and the SCAR took the blame for "killing" them or being inaccurate.
I'm not totally oblivious to gun knowledge, but for the life of me I cannot figure out what the item swinging freely on the barrel is in your top to bottom comparison? What's it's purpose?
I have thought about polimer cases. Some time ago I was watching a lot of interviews with special forces operators and I remember one of them said, that there are things you wouldn't expected for example after intense shootout in narrow corridor, you need to watch your steps, because you can slip on cases laying everywhere around. If polimer cases will brake or flat down when stepping on, you can make this your selling point ;)
they wanted a ridiculously high chamber pressure and even went with Steel at the base of the case. Polymer isnt going to hold up if brass is already too weak for how much pressure they are asking for.
@@DefZen343 I think you are mixing up Sig ammo (chamber pressure of 80,000 psi according to Sig and the army) for True Velocity polymer ammo (65,000 psi max....which is similar to most modern ammo out there right now). Sig ammo was the one that everyone has concern about regarding rediculous chamber pressure. They are trying to achieve the required velocity with only 13 inches of barrel.
@@Mryodamiles ohh, i was assuming that was what the military asked for 👀 a very high pressure round that defeats body armor while using short barrels, the pressures makes polymer cases inappropriate. was the pressures not specified when they submitted the polymer ammo? 👀
what I got from this video Lightweight polymer bullets are going to be the future of warfare not just because of the low muzzle flash but just because you're going to be able to have soldiers carry so much more ammunition and it will probably reduce military spending as plastic so much cheaper to manufacture than metal I just hope there's a method of recycling the cases
@@briancooper2112 not at all... look at ukraine. Russian tanks are being decimated. it's about being light and fast. what they need to focus on is protecting the soldiers better and having armor of some sort for the limbs
The SCAR actually uses a short stroke gas piston system. Not a long stroke. It just looks like it would be a long stroke because instead of having an op rod, the bolt is extended forward (which acts like the op rod) to make contact with the piston on the gas block which makes it looks like there is a piston attached to it like an AK. But make no mistake, the piston in the gas block just pushes the bolt back a few millimeters like an HK416, G36, ACR, etc instead of the piston being attached directly into the bolt like a true long stroke gas system like an AK.
True Velocity is already selling polymer .308, it's expensive but some guntubers have already tested it. Looks solid, I'm going to test their 6.5 Creedmoor on my MDRx when it is available.
Plastic casings, like fusion power are just 5 years away. TrueVelocity is just the latest company, previously there was Gorilla, and PCA, and Textron. I have a few boxes of PCA ammo from back when they sold that to the public like 2 decades ago. I think it's probably just never going to make the mainstream. There are still other composite case technologies like the steel/steel composite case made by ShellShock, I've fired quite a bit of it, and it's awesome, I think it might be closer to 50% weight reduction. As far as the SCAR goes, it's a neat rifle, I've fired many variations of both the H and L, the full auto in the short barrel configs is so much fun. That said, the scar H just doesn't make sense outside the Mk20SSR, you lose too much velocity with a short barrel, and your noise signature goes through the roof. In the mean time, the Mk20 versions in 6.5 are having teething issues with firing pin protrusion, and botched fixes and slow customer service. I could probably deal with these issues on a personal firearm, just not at the price point being asked.
None at all really. The efficiency due to insolation wasn't just marketing they use less powder to achieve the same speeds as standard factory loads so if this ever picks up people are naturally going to fill it back up to make their rifles perform like it's chambered in a magnum cartridge.
I had about 1,000 rounds of the 5.56 NATEC polymer-cased ammo in the mid-2000s. It was pretty good ammo when plinking and super light. Well, I decided to use it during a July 4th rifle competition, where it was 114ºF during the heat of the day. During the last stage, I suffered a case neck separation, which prevented me from chambering another round (after three malfunction drills, I just called it and walked off the range. I later popped out the case neck after the chamber had cooled). I wound up giving the rest of that ammo away (I got it for free, so wasn't going to take anyone's money for it...). Hopefully, this new stuff has worked out those kinks.
it's unbelievable the ability of material engineers to manufacture something lightweight, strong and cheap out of seemingly the same ingredients of mud. Specifically within the past decade when computing power has really reached a stride and more specifically AI styled machine processing is able to run and test different styles of materials with purpose, rather than the old style of trial and error that was required. I have no doubt they've solved those issues but also that there must be a bunch of other issues hidden by the fact that millions of rounds aren't being produced and used in harsher environments. For me that kind of teething period must be *well* worth the payoff for an actual innovation into the casing of a round.
@@facepalm7345 Don't get me wrong...it was a huge advancement in ammo tech for the time. And for light plinking, it was perfectly adequate. But once things got toasty, that's when it all started to fall apart, literally. Since I was doing a lot of competitions at the time, I decided I'd just get rid of it rather than be tempted to use it again. LOL
We, the British, had a lot of issues with the first version of our assault rifle back in the 80's and early 90's. The SA-80A1 was, to be honest, absolutely shocking...... it really was. I was used to the pure thoroughbred that was the 7.62 SLR, she was absolutely beautiful and had pure first round stopping power that would put you down instantly. The SA-80 didn't do itself any favours with the troops, it was that bad that they had to hand it to H&K to sort it out. When the SA-80A2 came out, the problems had been pretty much ironed out and this made a MAHOOSIVE difference. I hear, from lads who have used the current A3 version that she's a fine weapon and is highly accurate and highly reliable.... which is exactly what you want. So.......... teething problems with a bit of military kit is very common, just give it time.
Cost is too high and I’m not sure it was the best rifle of the program. The Colt 901 is a superior rifle in my opinion and should have been adopted. The 901 still lives on in Canada as the C20 and a few other places.
I thought the 901 was a great idea and was hot to get one. And it never came. I still have not seen one for real. I also haven't gotten the 1911 Colt centennial I ordered in 2011. That's what happens when you put a retired general in charge and he hires all his retired general buddies to oversee parts of a company and products they have ZERO knowledge or even common sense about.
I get why they're wanted, but I don't want ours or any other military leaving 100s of billions of plastic shells on a battlefield. Also I'd be concerned about degradation after sitting in a cache under the sun in 120* temps for 5 months at a time. Plastics break down. A broken down casing is a disaster waiting to happen
Eat the bugs, sleep in the pod, your guns and ammo will be plastic, and you will be happy. Haha, just kidding. We won’t have access/ownership of guns in the future…
Ngl the idea of having one big caliber and one small caliber for Soldiers to choose from was not a bad idea in my opinion. Honestly it sounded pretty dope
There's a lot of people commenting about "plastic" ammo with limited knowledge. They're apparently not aware of the polymer covers for suppressors or the thin polymer sheets for a bbq grill to prevent burnt spots on the meat and/or keep flareups down. They must think "polymer" is like milk jug stuff.
Still think True Velocity's new ammunition was a missed opportunity for the NGSW program. The rifle they came up with looked awkward, but their ammunition was on point.
The reduced heat transfer to the chamber with the polymer cased ammo has huge implications beyond rifles. A cooler chamber could improve the reliability of machine guns under sustained fire situations. Additionally, and take this with a grain of salt cause I'm not an engineer, you could get hotter rounds with the same powder load and chamber pressure. Which would in theory increase muzzle velocity increasing the effective range.
It would cut down on the chance of a round cooking off in the chamber, but for sustained fire the barrel is where the problems arise. Can not fix a drooping barrel with a cool chamber. Also chamber pressure is how you increase muzzle velocity if you do not change to a lighter projectile. If the projectile stays the same and the chamber pressure stays the same there will be no increase in muzzle velocity. Also please think of the talk about energy lost to heating the brass casing making a difference to ballistics compared to polymer as marketing. The percentage of energy left in the casing and chamber when firing is not enough to make any difference that is significant to the projectile going down the barrel. Just the friction energy left in the barrel by a round squeezing thru is probably 100x what is left in the brass casing and chamber. The advantage is primarily lighter ammunition and safer closed bolt machineguns when it comes to cooking off rounds after sustained fire, the rest is marketing.
I do love an attached/reciprocating charging handle better than I do love the Forward Assist (AR-15A1 thru the "M-4") because I just slap it with the palm of my right hand! However, I can understand when shooting from unusual positions that can be an issue. As for the pistol, perhaps something like what the Mini-14 uses (at least the early to mid production ones I've owned. I don't know about the ones that are over $1,000!) It is an "External" Piston system where the piston fits around the "Chamber" which in this rifle has a bit of a taper and self cleaning flutes on it. With every shot, any residue gets tossed to the bottom of the stock's inside!
Polymer casings are 100% the future of ammunition. But as for a .308 rifle to build upon for infantry, the Ruger SFAR is absolutely perfect! Weighs the same as an m4, fires .308 and could be adapted to the new polymer 277 tvcm cartridge and as a result would actually weigh less than some M4s currently in US service. But itd have more power than the .308 and thats relly huge, most especially with the reduced overall weight of the full setup. Just something to think about the next time youre looking for a phenomenal .308 for not even half the price of a scar that weighs even less.
If ammo is 30% lighter, it makes sense that it is more accurate, as the bullet isen't bumping as hard around as it doens with the original whight (heat is also a kinetic energy source added to the sum of energy circle through the weapon). And as those forces are heading in diffrent directions at the same time and in a split second, this expalin why this is tricky to meassure with something but the human expirience. You can say the gun with more forces heading in different directions - even if they would totally cancel each other out - is more easy to move, even it technically has the same resting mass as with normal ammo to withstand moving. It's ... vibrating.
The use of reciprocating charging handle in scar maybe based on the FN experienced with their FN FNC rifle utilizing RCH and long stroke piston type. and the FNC is inspired by AK series. The US operators usually used non RCH rifle while the other armies in world is used to with the RCH type rifle. Just like Belgian and Indonesia used FNC before and the spec ops used Scar but not so much problem with the charging handle
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I accidentally cut off the last word of the video! My hooah photos: instagram.com/cappyarmy/
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I LOVE shooting the SCAR. The only problem is that using the .308 version at the range makes EVERYONE hate you. It shakes the ground and everyone stops shooting to see what the hell is causing the earthquake lol
I think using the SCAR-H .308 is a better option because it's an amazing battle rifle for getting that extra firepower while the 5.56 version could easily be replaced by any M-4 which everyone already has. I've tried shooting the .308 as fast as possible and by the end of two magazines just dicking around like that my head hurt, my teeth were rattling, and I can imagine a couple more magazines would have me bleeding from the eyes, ears, and nose.
The sig spear is going to replace the scar heavy
Can people 3d print their own bullets?
8:00 ... For whoever draws the circles on this channel, that's not the charging handle. lol
@@serwinzzalot9989 Sure can... I can 3D print my own knives too.
The idea of severely reducing heat buildup by switching to polymer cased ammunition is a huge deal that I don't think gets enough attention.
Weight in general is seen as a silver or bronze medal priority, never a gold, until logistics and the front line suffers.
I don't see why it's not already a thing. Less heat-- less weight-- less cost.. ??/ whats the down side?
@@calholli can't handle 80k PSI that's the reasoning for most sig Sauer fanboys. but hey if you can achieve the same ballistics with less powder like you can with polymer I don't see why this was never adopted it should have been adopted in my opinion
i think it takes a lot of time to develop, in theory it sounds great, but in reality probably the polymer casings have many unforseen flaws that have to be encountered first in order to fix, through testing
always when developing something new there is many fatal flaws that you have to simply encounter by accident..
I've got a SCAR H with a 20" heavy barrel in 6.5 Creedmoor and it is way more accurate than my abilities to shoot it are. Love that rifle.
ewww why such a caliber choice....
@@ommsterlitz1805 because it is essentially an optimized 7.62x51 - much better ballistic performance and can easily hit accurately out to 1200 meters- which is why the SOCOM s now getting their Mk 20 mod 0 Sniper Support Rifle in 6.5 Creedmoor
'FN Mk. 20 SSR in 6.5mm Creedmoor, and determined that the 6.5mm Creedmoor chambering performed the best, doubling hit probability at 1,000 meters, increasing effective range by at least 40 percent, reducing wind drift by 30 to 40 percent, and retaining 30 percent more energy, all with significantly less recoil than standard, 7.62mm rounds' - so why that round? Because it's superior to 7.62x51 - and SOCOM knows it.
@@macfilms9904 yes and how much you can shoot them without being out of stock compared to any other caliber
Have you had any issues with reliability? Tim with MilitaryArmsChannel seems to always find lemons, but his 20S in 6.5 was hot garbage.
@@rhubarbpie2027 I haven't put the kinds of round counts Tim does, and I'm still on a learning curve with shooting at distance - so I'm slower & more deliberate about it and haven't had any issues to speak of - but I'm sure it can happen - although to be fair to the SCAR, I've had small issues with most of my guns at times. I built mine up from a basic SCAR H ), Super SCAR trigger, a German steel fluted heavy barrel etc - it's not a 20S - don't know if that makes any difference or not.
the scar is actually a short stoke piston weapon. it just has a ridiculously big bolt carrier
It's funny because his video at the 9:45ish mark even says Short Stroke piston lol.
why didnt they just make it long stroke gas piston since that bolt already extends all the way to the front ???
@@corvoattano4777 it is a long stroke gas piston. He says that just shy of 4 min mark
@@TheGmanway it isn't. Like the original comment says the bolt is very long and it seems like long stroke piston but there is a smaller piston at the front which strikes the bolt to open it.
@@corvoattano4777 It would probably have to extend even further to be a long stroke. Since it's a short stroke that means theirs a gap between the BCG and the piston actually. So the BCG would be even longer then.
A nice thing that may help the SCAR series would be doing the 6.8 conversion, letting it stay in service as it is the same ammunition as the M5 and M250.
Im curious how a 6.8 SCAR and the M5 would stack up
It would be fairly interesting, still a surplus of parts existing. Potential stopgap maybe.
@@steakwilliams4448 fn mrgg-a with 6.8 vs m5
@@steakwilliams4448 without knowing the details of the M5, I'll say the the SCAR is only surpassed by one other tested firearm in sheer numbers without stoppages. So without knowing, I'd venture a guess and say pretty damn well.
This would be pretty easy to accomplish as it would use the same magazine and only require a barrel change.
Great comparison of the muzzle flash of the brass vs. the plastic. Very interesting. Great job.
I can only speak for my own experience, but I love mine. Lightweight, easy to do follow up shots and target transition easily for a 762, outside the weight of mags, its heft to me is closer to an AK than a battle rifle. An aftermarket trigger has made it easier to be accurate with it, haven't done any other major changes.
Mine is the reciprocating gen but ive had zero issues with it. Cleaning is a breeze and I have gradually got rid most of my DI rifles over short stroke pistons. I think if the new, non reciprocating gens came with angled and extended handles, that'd be nice.
..same EXCEPT for mil spec FN trigger…
The reciprocating charging handle really only bugged me when I shot it from a barricade. It got caught on my sleeve and it slowed it down enough to fail to go into battery (wasn't mine so I didn't expect that). I'm considering getting one with the non-reciprocating when my wallet feels comfortable with it. It's just such a great looking rifle, and even if SOCOM doesn't like it, you can't deny it's an iconic weapon of the GWOT time period.
isn't an AK a battle rifle? I thought that just meant chambered in 7.62 or bigger.
@@laraycrenshaw5908 The ak isn’t considered a battle rifle because it shoots an intermediate cartridge, 7.62x39. Battle rifles shoot full power cartridges like 7.62x51, which is a little bigger and more powerful than the 7.62x39
@@holyguacamole__6922 huh cool learn something new everyday
One of the issues with the SCAR's wasn't that the SCAR's optic mounting solution, the issue was that the barrels screws work their way lose over time which would make your fire inaccurate. Check out 9-Hole Review on the SCAR H and L.
..”loose”, just sayin’
I would suggest Loctite but then you won’t be able to get the screws off 😂
@@vicdiaz5180 you will if you heat it up
@@chemistryofquestionablequa6252 so.... fire a couple rounds and the loctite melts
@@raymondwong7895 certainly could be a problem
I hope plastic cased ammo becomes more common, it's such a cool concept
plastic ammo, in combination with plastic links like we're seeing in Ukraine, would be an awesome addition for SAW roles. they could shed a lot of weight or carry considerably more ammo, along with way less muzzle flash giving away their position.
Great video! I have a SCAR 16s &17s. I love them both equally. I’m always glad to see the SCAR get love. Minor nit-pick: it’s not a long stroke piston like an AK or PWS. It’s a short stroke. The piston travels a very short distance and hits the bold carrier. The bolt carrier makes the full cycle.
my FN has a timid carrier where can i buy the bold ones??
@@byloyuripka9624 thank you for noticing. 🤪 Typo corrected. I’m going to blame auto-correct… ha!
Few things in life are more fun than rapid fire 308's and the SCAR-17 is my favorite.
HK-93 was great, really great, but the SCAR is even better. Load up some quality rounds with a suppressor on the SCAR and blast that 20 round mag as fast as you can. Then you can go back to target shooting 1 gal. jugs of water or whatever, just remember to always shoot this after your .22's, 9mm, and 5.56 first because once you go 7.62, you don't want to go back down the ladder of banging and blasting those little peashooters.
👍
meh, i disagree. i enjoy "large" calibers but also enjoy plinking with a .22
Same. I love my 7.62x39 5.56, 5.45, ext but something for me that I adore is 7.62x54R weather in the Mosin or the SVD. Honestly the mosin is what does it. To feel the power and hear the sound is just beautiful. Just fun rifles to plink with.
The reason why M4 barrels were melting and blowing up at the time was because of a QC issue at Colt. By the time FN had finished the SCAR-L model, not only had the QC issue at Cold had been rectified, but all M4s moving forward would have a heavy profile barrel to prevent those issues from happening again. Also SOCOM had gotten the Block II M4s in stock from Daniel Defense and they were more accurate than the SCAR-L and just as reliable. So there was no need for it anymore.
As for why the SCAR-H became popular, well it was so much better than the M14 variants (Mk 14 EBR and M39 EMR) but also because the M110 SASS rifle was having issues in the field and the higher ups wouldn't let Knights Armament fix them or upgrade them. So they adopted the SCAR-H for a DMR role, even when the M110 was more accurate, didn't destroy optics, and could be made cheaper than the SCAR through their existing contract with Knights.
What’s the word on the M-4’s breaking so many locking lugs with the higher pressure 855A1 ammo. Is there a fix or upgrade? All I got was babble from the contractors at the Ft Jackson weapons pool.
@@blackhawk7r221 Not quite sure if I heard anything about M855A1 rounds affecting locking lugs, but I do know it had feeding issues and those were were fixed by adopting a new aluminum magazine as well as Gen 3 PMAGs. Other than that, any parts wear that happens people have to suck up.
@@chaoschaoforever Yea, the tan mags with baby blue followers that went out about 2012 have the improved lip angle to keep the sharp tungsten tips from stabbing the back of the chamber. We’ve been cracking off lugs for years with this 64,000 psi 855A1 ammo. We keep hearing rumors of a fix, but nothing yet. Just thought you may have heard something.
@@blackhawk7r221 Nah man sorry, I haven't heard anything. I think the only thing they could do is beef up those lugs as well as the bolts to be able to withstand those pressures but seeing as the XM5 is right around the corner I highly doubt they will do anything. Personally I think the 5.56 round is at its limit and we should be moving to a round like 6ARC which can fit in a normal PMAG just fine. I don't think the XM5 firing 6.8x51 is the right way to go, but I do think we've finally seen the limits of the 5.56 round.
@@chaoschaoforever So true. When everybody in my platoon was fighting over who got to carry the 14’s, you know it hits home.
That video you made months ago I loved that video on the new polymer ammunition and I was facinated with all the scientific complexity attributes that was thru out that gun as well as the ammo.
as a Belgian, I approve of the Belgian Army footage !
I made a perfect heart shot at around 780meters w the scar H. I was shocked at how accurate it was at higher ranges.
Weird number, 780m. What optics were you using?
@@ctakitimu I don't recall..was several years ago.
I had a spotter as well so that makes it easier.
@@lifeisa.smalllesson333 Oh yeah, fair enough if you had a spotter
@@ctakitimu yea and he was exceptionally skilled.
He was on a HALO sniper team out of 7th group.
He was training me on all the high speed weapons they had that regular army didn't have much of at the time..good times.
Prolly around 2008 actually, little bit ago...
Really like your videos. Greetings from Switzerland!
Finally some love for the weapon made by my country, nice!
Indeed nice video, thank you for your work!
Scar is an excellent weapon. I’ve used it to engage enemies countless times in battlefield 4. It’s never let me down and I appreciate the extra power and accuracy for longer engagements.
shit dogg after all the game induced ptsd and watching too many die we appreciate your contribution and opinion on this real life object
I am glad to see the true velocity ammo getting some love. It’s really a potential game changer.
9:59 "One minute of angle at 300 yards" Spoken like a true gun expert.
Yea Bro, that equates to like 3 liters of 1.21 Gigawatts after conversion.
Perfect timing for this video, I was in Vegas and had the chance to visit Battlefield Vegas where I shot the SCAR-L I very much enjoyed this rifle and had a great time with it.
7:16 the SCAR has a short-stroke gas piston; the bolt carrier group setup just makes it look like a long-stroke.
Yep, a massive and long bolt carrier. A very smart key design aspect I must say.
Even better with the new NRCH version, the 'charging handle slider' keeps the system closed during firing and when the bolt is holding open. At the same time preserve the service life of charging handles.
In our old classics like M-1’s and M-14’s, that long thin operating rod was always the weak link. FN did it right.
the SCAR-L and SCAR-H are now standard infantry weapons in my country of Portugal, and I couldn't be prouder of the choice made. :D
Here's an unpopular opinion: True Velocity and their plastic ammo are the next dragon skin armor. Using very clever marketing to rile civilians up, while the military bypassed it for very good reasons that nobody wants to accept. This ammo is way too expensive currently and will never be adopted by the military until the civilian market uses it over brass.
edit: also the gas/suppressor issue is no longer a thing with modern 3d printed suppressors
@manny022 It's polymer cases, not polymer bullets. Unless you're talking about cases ricocheting, which isn't a problem I've ever heard of anyone having.
…UNTIL it actually reaches the ‘civilian’ market..it’s a NO-go then. I think you’re pretty much spot on otherwise..
@manny022 ..NOT ricochet? ANY round will ricochet DUE to velocity..
True Velocity ammo is expensive bc they don't have economy of scale. You are a small company competing against traditional brass case manufacturers who had paid off their machinery cost 100 years ago and perfected logistics. The point that True Velocity was trying to make is that their ammo has the potential to be cheaper since the material used is much cheaper than brass.
I’ve shot polymer ammo and it’s safe to say there is no difference in Ballistics and carrying a few magazines extra full of Polymer ammo makes no difference in weight as well. I mean unless you’re carrying a whole full backpack of parlor ammo then that’s a different story
Best summary of the SCAR I have seen. Thanx.
Love the video. Thanks for taking the time to make them.
Cappy you are doing so well on your channel that you can afford some heavy backup. A full time engineer for sure and possibly a white lab coat, clip board user scientist. You speak good English too. Yo.
He had therapy to subdue the NY/Long Island speech defect.
If you get a headshot with the SCAR can you call that person Scarface?
No. You call it a corpse
Nah, that's what you call the guy who gets buttstroked.
3:06 I can only imagine how incredibly warm the dude just hanging out in his drysuit and rebreather on dry land is
July 13, 2022 - I'm happy to see that the military has been fair in evaluating various assault rifles. I think that fact that polymer cased ammunition is being taken seriously is another positive.
I remember having to deal with brass after shooting at the range. Reduced weight means more ammo carried by soldiers, and less weight for foot and aircraft resupply. One other thought... How did my wife get in this video.. she said she was going to her mother's house.😁
I would truly like to try that plastic ammo, though it may be expensive and difficult to find.
I really love the SCAR rifle and both the 16 and 17 are the best I have ever laid hands on.
Now as for the optics, the action of the harmonics of the bolt cycling open and closed is what destroys optics.
The only optic I know that can take abuse in normal operational use is the ACOG. There may be others, but the ACOG will take the punishment.
There may be others, that I don’t know about, but the ACOG is what makes am used to using with these two rifles. I’d say that anything from Trijicon would do just fine.
As far as the charging handle goes, that’s what the Army wanted and FN delivered.
We had to train keeping the dynamics of the charging handle in mind and trained around it. I likened it to learning to drive stick shift.
As my instructor used to say, “Train hard, fight easy.”
I really love the SCAR!
Cappy, please make a vid on the various firing positions you mentioned, between specops and regulars. Sounds rly interesting!
I've been watching this Navy Seal by the name of Coch, he was apart of the Scar program so it's been interesting to hear his experience's. I believe the channel is called Tactical Hyve, I'd recommend you watch a few of Coch's videos, top notch bloke.
SCAR 20S in 6.5CM blows out primers. As in, you better be in a super safe area if it’s your fighting rifle because every mag or so you’ll need complete disassembly.
Get a replacement pin.
Apparently that is caused by the firing pin. Contact FN USA.
I never used the SCAR in the army. But I have a good number of buddies from the 75th who did. Every single one hated it.
We hated the overall bulkiness of that stupid stock design, but loved the light recoil.
As an added bonus, polymer casings can last thousands of years in the environment.
Future 'Battlefield Detectives' rejoice
The SCAR is sexy therefore it is a great firearm. All reported problems are to be ignored...unless you life depends on it. Then you have a waiver to use what works for you.
I may be irrational, on certain topics, but I do support your continued breathing.
This is the reality of my reasoning on all sexy things I don't have and the ones do.
Disclaimer: I don't own a SCAR, have never held one and have no intentions of purchasing one. But that doesn't void anything I have said about the SCAR.
Thank You and carry on, carrying on.
imagine switching to polymer cased ammo along with polymer disintegrating links for light machine guns, I don't know the weight difference, but it has to be significant past around 50 rounds
Definately ONE of my favs for sure. I can GUARANTEE YOU.. the hate comes from the elevated price. That’s why homeboys cry MORE than any other..💯. Great breakdown Cappy..
I still hope True Velocity gets a big military contract. It seems like a quantum leap in ammo, more so than SIGs hybrid ammo…
The SIG ammo operates at an entirely new plane of pressure ceiling, it's far more of a "quantum leap" in actual ballistic performance; the True Velocity polymer would simply self-destruct at such a pressure regime. That being said, the military has expressed interest in a reduced power full auto/CQB load for the 6.8x51mm, that kicks more like the training ammo, so there might be a real opportunity for True Velocity to pitch their case design again in the near future.
If they ship it out with squads doing arctic/jungle/desert training and the polymer ammunition holds up. It’s a no brainer.
I personally predict 6.8x51 hybrid ammo will be a flop and they’ll just re barrel for 7.62 Nato, polymer ammunition lets you carry more bridges the gap slightly between a 5.56 loadout and a 7.62 load out
@@buttyug 7.62 NATO would be a huge loss in performance, might as well stick to 5.56 and enjoy the ammo carrying capacity.
@@ChucksSEADnDEAD I hear you buy a 12.4” G3K still puts 147gr FMJ out at 2450fps which is good enough for minute of man to 500yrds.
Military ball is susceptible to wind after 600yrds from a full size 308 anyway.
On a scale of compromises if they committed to the platform and a 13” barrel then .308 isn’t that bad, its still more than adversary’s AK’s.
Plus any necked down .308’s burn out barrels.
A newly designated military 125/130gr OTM round with polymer cartridges and a faster powder would be would be my pick even with a much lower BC.
Dallas reloads get over 2500fps with 125gr SST from an 11” .308, bump that to 13” and its even better.
.277 FURY is ok but the high pressure rounds are too much for the shooters and the weapons.
@@buttyug That's only slightly better than 7.62x39 ballistics. That's a ton of flash and weight to carry for intermediate rifle performance.
Better than AK is not a tough hurdle to clear. You want to be better not just in ballistics but also recoil, low flash, weight, etc.
6.8X51 at least justifies its weight and recoil by blowing 7.62x39 NATO out of the water.
Even a 2600 fps 7.62 NATO is a compromise. I'd rather have 5.56, almost no recoil and nearly double the ammo. Either give me power and performance, or give me ease of shooting and ammo for days. Trying to sit on the fence just gets you the worst of both worlds and none of the advantages.
I mean the M14 isn’t specifically made for that goal. It’s literally a 1950’s design that’s been retrofitted on an expensive chassis (in its current form)
Thats what I was thinking lol. Well at least it is much better at that than full auto fire! Haha,.,.,but a semi-auto sniper system is still cool.
I’d be curious to see how plastic ammo performs in accuracy tests vs brass. Also, I wonder if the plastic cases could be reloaded?
If you are in a war and trying to make refill ammunition then have lost.
@@julianshepherd2038 I’m only curious for personal use. Not military
No, it can't be reloaded.
Yeah, or what if the polymer ammo has so much more energy due to less heat, maybe there is a way to have an even faster fps 5.56 just by switching to that casing? AP?
@@blackhatch46 Heat buildup in the M16/M4 is a problem. Polymer ammo might be a solution.
I once said "nice bit of kit" to a guy carrying a SCAR... his dejected reply was "Heavy bit of kit"..... That is literally all I know, but it seems relevant.
Someplace there's an alternative universe where the advantages of the ACR platform was realized and the 308 version was developed further and eventually swapped to polymer ammo.
Remington ruined the ACR :(
@@rhubarbpie2027 the ACR ruined the ACR.
@@Element_punk quantify.
Big flash and big bang. That was my memories of shooting 7.62n when I was a boy in cadets. Back when the SA-80 (L85) came out they did a cadet version where you chambered each round. Something to do with the laws back then so it was effectively bolt action assault rifle. (I know dumb right? lol) anyway to my young ears and eyes 5.56 was much nicer to shoot. There is hardly ANY flash with those new rounds. Thanks Chris.
It doesn't store quite as well for decades as the stainless-brass and dealing with a dozen million spent polymer casings per year that cannot be recycled is just not an option. Also, having the chamber not heat up with the barrel causes a massive amount of parts stress.
Yeah, that sounds like a mess waiting to happen.
Everything about this project is suspect as hell
But the soldier is less likely to get shot which is useful on a battlefield.
The manufacturers say the plastic is recyclable and the steel base makes it easy to pick up with a magnet. No more picking up brass bent over with your hands
Simple. Run a large magnet across the ground to pick up the casings to sell the steel as scrap and send the plastic wherever it needs to be. It's plastic so if a spent casing is left outside exposed to the elements it's gonna rot and crumble into dust.
Shot in the dark here: Why not use the projectile profile of "metal storm", and turn the entire case into the projectile, a bit like the gyro-jet, with the firing initiated by a contact pin discharging an electric arc into the base of the round. That would eliminate the "tare" weight of the case, and use the entire mass of the round as the impactor. Together with higher chamber pressure and smaller volume of the more powerful propellant charge, it would have a greater impact compared with traditional rounds. I think....
soooo a rail gun essentially? without the rails to guide the projectile but still I think that's pretty much the idea of gauss and rail guns.
Hasn't the SCAR 20S in 6.5 Creedmore been out for a while now? I remember looking at it about a year ago. Also heard they delivered a bunch using the 7.62mm firing pin so they punch through the primers frequently.
I feel like in the gun world if it was made in the last 10 years it's new. Considering people still buy guns that are over 100 years old (1911)
Chris said "in 2020 will have" when talking about the 20S. I think that might have been old footage because he didn't talk much about the Polymer ammunition, just the scar variants
1. This looks like a bunch of misc stuff edited together.
2. 6.5 Creedmore one is already out. MAC has one.
3. MACs 6.5 does not function well.
Cooper is nearly an strategic metal plus expensive nowadays so if you can save Cooper you are saving not only weight but a lot of money. Greetings from Spain
XM-5 has entered the game. SCAR-H is destined to become a footnote as an episode of Forgotten Weapons.
Yo Cappy! you gotta replace the m-4 silhouette from the intro with the sig spear silhouette!
Imagine plastic cases in a M2HB if the plastic cases reduce heat.
I’ve gotten 50 cal barrels hot enough to instantly melt that high temp polymer as soon as it chambered. Plastic bad for sustained fire machine guns. Fine for shoulder fired weapons.
Wow this thermal efficiency thing with polymer rounds is crazy. Woah
At the end of the days folks, remember that 20 year old AKs in the ME kill more people every year than anything else. The difference between small arms don’t really matter all that much and the SCAR is a great rifle regardless of the issues described. It just wasn’t worth the cost (few weapons are).
It’s really just flatrangers that parse the minute details of these guns. Just use what you like to use!
You said 20 year old AKs do all the killing, than said Small Arms don't matter.
Are you trying to argue against yourself?
@@Seth9809 lol of course not. You misunderstood how those two phrases relate. What I’m saying is that the differences don’t really matter. If a piece of shit that lags on all performance indicators and is out of date kills the most people then that supports the idea that the differences don’t really matter.
@@Legalizeasbestos ngl i don't get your logic, before semi-auto's bolt actions did all the killing so they shouldn't have moved away from that?
@@prettyokandy230 of course they should. But between the enfield and the kar98 etc it’s been shown that it probably didn’t matter which you had. WHICH small arm you have doesn’t really matter just as long as you have one.
Riddiculous argument. The fact that people can shoot at each other with weapons left behind by the Soviet Union doesn't mean we shouldn't strive for performance.
Another point is that they had Eotechs on the early blocks of the SCAR. It wouldn't be until nearly a decade later that Eotech/L3 admitted that their sights were drifting and failing on all rifles.
Because they thought Eotechs were gtg, the rifles and the SCAR took the blame for "killing" them or being inaccurate.
I'm not totally oblivious to gun knowledge, but for the life of me I cannot figure out what the item swinging freely on the barrel is in your top to bottom comparison? What's it's purpose?
I have thought about polimer cases.
Some time ago I was watching a lot of interviews with special forces operators and I remember one of them said, that there are things you wouldn't expected for example after intense shootout in narrow corridor, you need to watch your steps, because you can slip on cases laying everywhere around. If polimer cases will brake or flat down when stepping on, you can make this your selling point ;)
I was really disappointed the plastic ammo casing wasn't chosen for the NGSW.
Yeah, I feel like this plastic ammo was the most innovative thing that was coming out of the NGSW program.
they wanted a ridiculously high chamber pressure and even went with Steel at the base of the case. Polymer isnt going to hold up if brass is already too weak for how much pressure they are asking for.
@@DefZen343 I think you are mixing up Sig ammo (chamber pressure of 80,000 psi according to Sig and the army) for True Velocity polymer ammo (65,000 psi max....which is similar to most modern ammo out there right now). Sig ammo was the one that everyone has concern about regarding rediculous chamber pressure. They are trying to achieve the required velocity with only 13 inches of barrel.
@@Mryodamiles plastic is bad for men
@@Mryodamiles ohh, i was assuming that was what the military asked for 👀 a very high pressure round that defeats body armor while using short barrels, the pressures makes polymer cases inappropriate. was the pressures not specified when they submitted the polymer ammo? 👀
The SCAR is a short stroke piston. The AK, M240, M249, and FNC are long stroke. The piston is part of the bolt carrier in long stroke gas piston guns.
30% lighter ammo is a huge difference.
Hey Cappy, minor slip - 3:46 the SCAR is actually a *short* stroke gas piston system
Facts 👍
Polymer ammo in my hands will definitely result in mushy deformed plastic cartridges clogging up weird places.....
the toxic fume from the melted plastic gonna give the operator big health issue later on too
RUclips isn't your personal erotica site
what I got from this video Lightweight polymer bullets are going to be the future of warfare not just because of the low muzzle flash but just because you're going to be able to have soldiers carry so much more ammunition and it will probably reduce military spending as plastic so much cheaper to manufacture than metal I just hope there's a method of recycling the cases
I prefer new 6.8 rifle for us army. I hope USMC adopts 6.8 rifle as well.
not gonna happen, marines looooove their m27. and the sig rifle will most likely be a dmr purpose rifle.
@@picolascage5270 you never know! I still can't USMC wont use tanks anymore. Stupid move.
Yeah in 2089!
@@briancooper2112 not at all... look at ukraine. Russian tanks are being decimated. it's about being light and fast. what they need to focus on is protecting the soldiers better and having armor of some sort for the limbs
@@picolascage5270 The new rifle/ammo/MG will be infantry only. The M4/M16 will be around a long time for all the non-combatants.
The SCAR actually uses a short stroke gas piston system. Not a long stroke. It just looks like it would be a long stroke because instead of having an op rod, the bolt is extended forward (which acts like the op rod) to make contact with the piston on the gas block which makes it looks like there is a piston attached to it like an AK. But make no mistake, the piston in the gas block just pushes the bolt back a few millimeters like an HK416, G36, ACR, etc instead of the piston being attached directly into the bolt like a true long stroke gas system like an AK.
Do HIMARS
My new H has a cute little charging handle on the side opposite you have the main! 2022 production, and it is SWEET…
So does a platform have to be polymer specific or will we see polymer rounds in 5.56, 7.62, 9mm, etc. for the masses platforms?
First the latter, then the former.
True Velocity is already selling polymer .308, it's expensive but some guntubers have already tested it. Looks solid, I'm going to test their 6.5 Creedmoor on my MDRx when it is available.
As far as I am aware, 762 polymer ammo is a thing and it requires no retrofit.
Plastic casings, like fusion power are just 5 years away. TrueVelocity is just the latest company, previously there was Gorilla, and PCA, and Textron. I have a few boxes of PCA ammo from back when they sold that to the public like 2 decades ago. I think it's probably just never going to make the mainstream. There are still other composite case technologies like the steel/steel composite case made by ShellShock, I've fired quite a bit of it, and it's awesome, I think it might be closer to 50% weight reduction.
As far as the SCAR goes, it's a neat rifle, I've fired many variations of both the H and L, the full auto in the short barrel configs is so much fun. That said, the scar H just doesn't make sense outside the Mk20SSR, you lose too much velocity with a short barrel, and your noise signature goes through the roof. In the mean time, the Mk20 versions in 6.5 are having teething issues with firing pin protrusion, and botched fixes and slow customer service.
I could probably deal with these issues on a personal firearm, just not at the price point being asked.
I would really like to see this chronographed to see the velocity differences
I feel like there is a difference, and theyre just not saying it
probably the same why would they need to change it
Same velocity and ballistics from what they say
Whoteewho did a test on his channel a long time ago. Cant remember the results
None at all really. The efficiency due to insolation wasn't just marketing they use less powder to achieve the same speeds as standard factory loads so if this ever picks up people are naturally going to fill it back up to make their rifles perform like it's chambered in a magnum cartridge.
@@Taskandpurpose "from what they say" that's exactly why I want to see it lmfao
I had about 1,000 rounds of the 5.56 NATEC polymer-cased ammo in the mid-2000s. It was pretty good ammo when plinking and super light. Well, I decided to use it during a July 4th rifle competition, where it was 114ºF during the heat of the day.
During the last stage, I suffered a case neck separation, which prevented me from chambering another round (after three malfunction drills, I just called it and walked off the range. I later popped out the case neck after the chamber had cooled).
I wound up giving the rest of that ammo away (I got it for free, so wasn't going to take anyone's money for it...). Hopefully, this new stuff has worked out those kinks.
it's unbelievable the ability of material engineers to manufacture something lightweight, strong and cheap out of seemingly the same ingredients of mud. Specifically within the past decade when computing power has really reached a stride and more specifically AI styled machine processing is able to run and test different styles of materials with purpose, rather than the old style of trial and error that was required. I have no doubt they've solved those issues but also that there must be a bunch of other issues hidden by the fact that millions of rounds aren't being produced and used in harsher environments. For me that kind of teething period must be *well* worth the payoff for an actual innovation into the casing of a round.
@@facepalm7345 Don't get me wrong...it was a huge advancement in ammo tech for the time. And for light plinking, it was perfectly adequate. But once things got toasty, that's when it all started to fall apart, literally. Since I was doing a lot of competitions at the time, I decided I'd just get rid of it rather than be tempted to use it again. LOL
I think the flash reduction has more to do with them probably using a flash suppressant powder.
That's likely a factor, but they're not wrong that metallic cases steal energy from the powder ignition either.
I think what they where trying to say is they can use less powder to get the same effect which happens to lead to less flash
Dude pretty darn cool with the poly ammo case. Still like the scar in real life. Wish they cost less.
Scar is a very accurate weapon system and very difficult to maintenance
How is it hard to maintance?
How is it hard to maintain 😂
We, the British, had a lot of issues with the first version of our assault rifle back in the 80's and early 90's. The SA-80A1 was, to be honest, absolutely shocking...... it really was. I was used to the pure thoroughbred that was the 7.62 SLR, she was absolutely beautiful and had pure first round stopping power that would put you down instantly. The SA-80 didn't do itself any favours with the troops, it was that bad that they had to hand it to H&K to sort it out. When the SA-80A2 came out, the problems had been pretty much ironed out and this made a MAHOOSIVE difference. I hear, from lads who have used the current A3 version that she's a fine weapon and is highly accurate and highly reliable.... which is exactly what you want.
So.......... teething problems with a bit of military kit is very common, just give it time.
Cost is too high and I’m not sure it was the best rifle of the program. The Colt 901 is a superior rifle in my opinion and should have been adopted. The 901 still lives on in Canada as the C20 and a few other places.
I thought the 901 was a great idea and was hot to get one. And it never came. I still have not seen one for real. I also haven't gotten the 1911 Colt centennial I ordered in 2011. That's what happens when you put a retired general in charge and he hires all his retired general buddies to oversee parts of a company and products they have ZERO knowledge or even common sense about.
Best Tshirt ever
I get why they're wanted, but I don't want ours or any other military leaving 100s of billions of plastic shells on a battlefield. Also I'd be concerned about degradation after sitting in a cache under the sun in 120* temps for 5 months at a time. Plastics break down. A broken down casing is a disaster waiting to happen
"100s of billions" lololol, the military environmentalist, perhaps join the space force
@@byloyuripka9624 Even animals know not to shit where they eat. You haven't reached that level of intelligence and self-preservation.
Eat the bugs, sleep in the pod, your guns and ammo will be plastic, and you will be happy.
Haha, just kidding.
We won’t have access/ownership of guns in the future…
nice
Thanks for the breakdown, Chris.
FN: you know how ammo casing is relatively cheap?
Us: well not recently but yeah
FN, with 5.7x28mm and now this: what if it wasn’t?
Ngl the idea of having one big caliber and one small caliber for Soldiers to choose from was not a bad idea in my opinion. Honestly it sounded pretty dope
Im blown away by the polymer casing keeping the chamber cool to the touch after a full mag dump.
There's a lot of people commenting about "plastic" ammo with limited knowledge. They're apparently not aware of the polymer covers for suppressors or the thin polymer sheets for a bbq grill to prevent burnt spots on the meat and/or keep flareups down. They must think "polymer" is like milk jug stuff.
Still think True Velocity's new ammunition was a missed opportunity for the NGSW program. The rifle they came up with looked awkward, but their ammunition was on point.
cut off at the end killed me
I always thought the true velocity ammo was the real star of the ngsw trials. Hopefully it comes to market
The reduced heat transfer to the chamber with the polymer cased ammo has huge implications beyond rifles. A cooler chamber could improve the reliability of machine guns under sustained fire situations. Additionally, and take this with a grain of salt cause I'm not an engineer, you could get hotter rounds with the same powder load and chamber pressure. Which would in theory increase muzzle velocity increasing the effective range.
It would cut down on the chance of a round cooking off in the chamber, but for sustained fire the barrel is where the problems arise. Can not fix a drooping barrel with a cool chamber. Also chamber pressure is how you increase muzzle velocity if you do not change to a lighter projectile. If the projectile stays the same and the chamber pressure stays the same there will be no increase in muzzle velocity. Also please think of the talk about energy lost to heating the brass casing making a difference to ballistics compared to polymer as marketing. The percentage of energy left in the casing and chamber when firing is not enough to make any difference that is significant to the projectile going down the barrel. Just the friction energy left in the barrel by a round squeezing thru is probably 100x what is left in the brass casing and chamber. The advantage is primarily lighter ammunition and safer closed bolt machineguns when it comes to cooking off rounds after sustained fire, the rest is marketing.
I do love an attached/reciprocating charging handle better than I do love the Forward Assist (AR-15A1 thru the "M-4") because I just slap it with the palm of my right hand! However, I can understand when shooting from unusual positions that can be an issue.
As for the pistol, perhaps something like what the Mini-14 uses (at least the early to mid production ones I've owned. I don't know about the ones that are over $1,000!) It is an "External" Piston system where the piston fits around the "Chamber" which in this rifle has a bit of a taper and self cleaning flutes on it. With every shot, any residue gets tossed to the bottom of the stock's inside!
Mass is important Cap. Can't beat mother nature, she always wins. SCIENCE!!
Polymer casings are 100% the future of ammunition. But as for a .308 rifle to build upon for infantry, the Ruger SFAR is absolutely perfect! Weighs the same as an m4, fires .308 and could be adapted to the new polymer 277 tvcm cartridge and as a result would actually weigh less than some M4s currently in US service. But itd have more power than the .308 and thats relly huge, most especially with the reduced overall weight of the full setup. Just something to think about the next time youre looking for a phenomenal .308 for not even half the price of a scar that weighs even less.
If ammo is 30% lighter, it makes sense that it is more accurate, as the bullet isen't bumping as hard around as it doens with the original whight (heat is also a kinetic energy source added to the sum of energy circle through the weapon).
And as those forces are heading in diffrent directions at the same time and in a split second, this expalin why this is tricky to meassure with something but the human expirience.
You can say the gun with more forces heading in different directions - even if they would totally cancel each other out - is more easy to move, even it technically has the same resting mass as with normal ammo to withstand moving. It's ... vibrating.
If you can afford this rifle, you can afford this ammo. 💸
The use of reciprocating charging handle in scar maybe based on the FN experienced with their FN FNC rifle utilizing RCH and long stroke piston type. and the FNC is inspired by AK series. The US operators usually used non RCH rifle while the other armies in world is used to with the RCH type rifle. Just like Belgian and Indonesia used FNC before and the spec ops used Scar but not so much problem with the charging handle
Polymer cased ammo is as much of a revolution as smokeless powder was
I laughed out loud with that little dude going full auto 🤣
3:28 that's actually a newer CZ Bren in the footage, a large amount were donated to Ukraine. It's silhouette very much resembles a SCAR MK16
That true velocity stuff needs to become the standard ammo the absolute second all the bugs are worked out
Love that cut at the end.