Loving this little series. Advanced construction tips are greatly appreciated even for those of us with some hours of KSP under our belt. For example, I made a Munar Lander out of a structural tube with tanks + engines on the outside and the ascent stage inside the tube with a decoupler and some sepratrons for the first disconnect on launch I am really proud of. Nobody has shown this technique but it is super fun to build and fly.
when i put decouplers in structural tubes it never ends well. if it got it good only the structural tube and maybe the decoupler explodes. if im unlucky then my command module will end up flying and i will get myself a permanent settlement.
I use small fins on the boosters, about midline, one on each side. If the connection is higher up, it pushes the nose away from the rocket and the booster flies away gently from the craft. For more effect, tilt them outward a few degrees.
Great video, veteran here and I learned about your booster separation and nose come trick!! I would however add a tip of my own for unstable rockets: use fuel priority to drain fuel tanks bottom up
@@robdekiefte31 think of of rocket like an arrow. For maximum stability you want your weight up top (arrow head) and your lift at the bottom (feathers)
@@hatoffnickel what do you mean by "fuel priority"? Is it achieved with fuel duct or there is a way to set them up without the duct? Thanks in advance.
@@NicolaiNita hey dude, iirc you can enable both fuel priority and autostrut by checking the advanced tweakables option in game settings. Then in the vab, you right click on a fuel tank and you can set the priority order of that tank
Wee-hee! I'm only 4 minutes late today! 0:16 lol "...during your building... uh..." NIGHTMARES! Just say it, Vaos. Building nightmares. Building hair loss. Building keyboard smashes. Building monitor punches. It's fine. You can say it. 1:36 Really? You start gravity turns based on mps? I never knew that. I just do it based on altitude. The heavier the rocket, the farther up I wait before initiating the turn. ...Although, given the physics of what's happening during a gravity turn, I suppose mps makes more sense. 2:37 I do a similar comparison of navball degrees versus altitude but I have multiple checks on the way up: 60º by 10km, 40 by 20, 30 by 30, 20 by 40, 10 by 50. These are just personal guidelines based on experience which I use to gauge the performance of a new rocket. Once I have that gauge registered, I then mentally develop a custom flight plan for that rocket that deviates by some margin from the guideline. Like you said: every rocket has its own sweet spot. 3:41 Yes. 4:53 Ow! That book hurt! Next time throw a paperback cover at me. :p 5:28 But WHY? WHY is it called "asparagus"!? WHYYYYYY?!?!?!??!?!?! HRRRRRRRRGFHHH!1 FFFWFIITTWTHURGFFF!!!! I hate those vegetable terms. They make no fricking sense to me. I don't know what whack job introduced those vegetable terms into this community but I wish I could punch them. I always say "string" instead of asparagus and "shell" instead of onion. It keeps my blood pressure down, for obvious reasons. 7:53 I get what you're saying but, even in your example where you have rockets with expendable grounded fuel tanks, there still comes a critical point where the launch clamps must be released. The assumption with the "ignite first, release later" method is the player can manually find the spot on the throttle bar where the rocket's thrust is equivalent to its weight so it has a smooth non-janky release. But, theoretically, once you know where this point on the throttle bar is, you ought to be able to just set the throttle to that point and release the rocket at the same time that you ignite the engines and get away with a non-janky instantaneous lift off. In theory. 10:57 Whaaaaaaaaaaaa?! You did the multiple nose cone thing intentionally?! I thought it was just aesthetics! I didn't know it had an actual purpose for flight. Golly gee.
Same here about the nose cones. Asparagus staging was proposed before KSP, in a book back in the 90s I think. Of course Scott Manley mentioned it in one of his vids. "Just" find the right one! The only reason we don't use it in real life is it's too difficult to make the connections reliably. Next best thing is to use thrust limiter on the sustainer so that the boosters run out first, like Delta 4 iirc.
Never needed to do that mechanical separaton method you are using. I just connect the decoupler almost to the top of the booster with the force at full, and then strut it at the bottom to keep it stable. When you stage the decoupler, it will push the top away. I will still often use one separaton clipped into the nose of the booster with no more 1 second worth of fuel on very large boosters, just to make the separation cleaner.
If you still end up rolling you can always cut engines when down click prograde and then when you hit it coming out of the roll full throttle and counter steer. Works for me
In a rocket you need to keep the aerodynamic center or center of drag always behind (say lower) than the center of mass. During ascent the center of mass can shift dramatically (because of fuel burned away or staging...) so that at some point those rockets will start to flip as the CoM shifts below the center of drag. You can also stop that from happening through the flow priority option. Make sure the uppermost fuel tank gets drained last (has the lowest number) so the center of gravity stays high. Also during ascent drag is reduced so the force it can have on your rocket gets lower and lower. I guess that the nose cones reduce drag on the front. Through adding them the center of lift doesn't seem to do anything in the VAB, but it might actually shift the center of lift more to the back during flight... why adding more nose cones even though there are no noses to cover further adds to the effect ... seems to be Kerbal science. Now with the CoM more to the front of the rocket you might need to start the gravity turn later so the nose isn't dragged down too hard... or you need to add more wings on the back end ;)
I usually consider my gravity turn good when I reach 45º at the 20km mark, that way the rocket will not turn in to a flamy popsicle, Its good to look at the TWR, my rockets are always at 1.20~ and I try not to go above 2.0 TWR on atmosphere (usually at like 50km that doesn't matter).
Same here, and I had no idea or never even thought of putting a fuel tank on the struts to fuel my gigantic space station lifters that took about 10-15 seconds to stabilize before lift off.
The Fuel tanks on the Launch Stabilizer is freakin GENIUS!! I will be using that a bit. VAOS is Scott Manley 2.0 Matt Lowne is a bit too chatty for me and his rockets are WEIRD!!! He knows his craft extremely well. But he's like a Mad Rocket Scientist In my book. To each his own. But I Certainly Respect the skills. VAOS is right up my alley. Great lookin ships. Super useful tips. Matt, Scott, and Vaos should all three get together and make one crazy wild ship one day just for fun. Like each of them make about 1/3 of the ship .... then send the file to each other and see what they end up with.
I've honestly never known how to gravity turn. I'll have to try it later. 🤔 the strut or structure part as a separation device I've heard you talk about it but it is. Nice to know how. One trick I use for my staging is to have the booster engines lower then the primary engine. I also have never liked the hydronic release, I've always used the radial decouplers. The flatter ones for 1.8 size or smaller and the tall ones for 2.5 and larger. I sometimes use a single physical strut near the bottom of the rocket, don't know if it helps or not but with the engine weight below the primary engine the tails get pulled towards center and the tips spread out. And BTW, the scale measures atmospheric density. And the very top of kerbin atmosphere is 70km. I shoot for 80 personally in career mode because nothing is worse then being just shy of orbit and falling back to kerbin with weak rockets or not enough fuel. Lol Keep up the great work. 👍 the tips videos will surely be popular. Keep at them. Tips about landing various craft on the different bodies such as target par on approach. Making the landing more efficient. That kind of thing. I'm normally not very efficient and fairly "ham fisted" when it comes to my landings lol
It's not only about the rocket's weight, but more about its thrust-to-weight-ratio (TWR). The higher your TWR, the faster your rocket will accelerate, and the sooner you would want to initiate your gravity turn.
![Kodak Black - Versatile 4 [Official Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/VcP_1Ua__vY/mqdefault.jpg)
Just the tips huh? That's what she said.
I love videos like this. I actually learned something here. Thank you Vaos.
Loving this little series. Advanced construction tips are greatly appreciated even for those of us with some hours of KSP under our belt. For example, I made a Munar Lander out of a structural tube with tanks + engines on the outside and the ascent stage inside the tube with a decoupler and some sepratrons for the first disconnect on launch I am really proud of. Nobody has shown this technique but it is super fun to build and fly.
I like the sound of that lander.
when i put decouplers in structural tubes it never ends well. if it got it good only the structural tube and maybe the decoupler explodes. if im unlucky then my command module will end up flying and i will get myself a permanent settlement.
Make a vid, would love to see that lander
This is the first video I've seen that adequately explained what a gravity turn is, thank you!!
if you spin the rocket a little bit while decoupling your boosters the centrifugal force will separate them from the main rocket
I use small fins on the boosters, about midline, one on each side. If the connection is higher up, it pushes the nose away from the rocket and the booster flies away gently from the craft. For more effect, tilt them outward a few degrees.
I but mine pretty much at the bottom of the booster.
That gravity turn help is just amazing, thanks!
Great video, veteran here and I learned about your booster separation and nose come trick!! I would however add a tip of my own for unstable rockets: use fuel priority to drain fuel tanks bottom up
why would you want the bottom tanks to drain first?
@@robdekiefte31 think of of rocket like an arrow. For maximum stability you want your weight up top (arrow head) and your lift at the bottom (feathers)
@@hatoffnickel what do you mean by "fuel priority"? Is it achieved with fuel duct or there is a way to set them up without the duct? Thanks in advance.
@@NicolaiNita hey dude, iirc you can enable both fuel priority and autostrut by checking the advanced tweakables option in game settings. Then in the vab, you right click on a fuel tank and you can set the priority order of that tank
I playing this game since 2014. And here is very usefull tips even for me. Thanks
Yo, using tanks to keep the thing fueled on the pad even with thrusters burning is an awesome move. Thanks!
Wee-hee! I'm only 4 minutes late today!
0:16 lol "...during your building... uh..." NIGHTMARES! Just say it, Vaos. Building nightmares. Building hair loss. Building keyboard smashes. Building monitor punches. It's fine. You can say it.
1:36 Really? You start gravity turns based on mps? I never knew that. I just do it based on altitude. The heavier the rocket, the farther up I wait before initiating the turn. ...Although, given the physics of what's happening during a gravity turn, I suppose mps makes more sense.
2:37 I do a similar comparison of navball degrees versus altitude but I have multiple checks on the way up: 60º by 10km, 40 by 20, 30 by 30, 20 by 40, 10 by 50. These are just personal guidelines based on experience which I use to gauge the performance of a new rocket. Once I have that gauge registered, I then mentally develop a custom flight plan for that rocket that deviates by some margin from the guideline. Like you said: every rocket has its own sweet spot.
3:41 Yes.
4:53 Ow! That book hurt! Next time throw a paperback cover at me. :p
5:28 But WHY? WHY is it called "asparagus"!? WHYYYYYY?!?!?!??!?!?! HRRRRRRRRGFHHH!1 FFFWFIITTWTHURGFFF!!!! I hate those vegetable terms. They make no fricking sense to me. I don't know what whack job introduced those vegetable terms into this community but I wish I could punch them. I always say "string" instead of asparagus and "shell" instead of onion. It keeps my blood pressure down, for obvious reasons.
7:53 I get what you're saying but, even in your example where you have rockets with expendable grounded fuel tanks, there still comes a critical point where the launch clamps must be released. The assumption with the "ignite first, release later" method is the player can manually find the spot on the throttle bar where the rocket's thrust is equivalent to its weight so it has a smooth non-janky release. But, theoretically, once you know where this point on the throttle bar is, you ought to be able to just set the throttle to that point and release the rocket at the same time that you ignite the engines and get away with a non-janky instantaneous lift off. In theory.
10:57 Whaaaaaaaaaaaa?! You did the multiple nose cone thing intentionally?! I thought it was just aesthetics! I didn't know it had an actual purpose for flight. Golly gee.
Ya I thought the same thing about the extra nose cones. Looks great and has a purpose.
Vaos is playing on that other level all these years
It might actually have been Whackjob. Probably not, but it's possible, given how early on he was active in the community.
Same here about the nose cones.
Asparagus staging was proposed before KSP, in a book back in the 90s I think. Of course Scott Manley mentioned it in one of his vids. "Just" find the right one! The only reason we don't use it in real life is it's too difficult to make the connections reliably. Next best thing is to use thrust limiter on the sustainer so that the boosters run out first, like Delta 4 iirc.
Never needed to do that mechanical separaton method you are using. I just connect the decoupler almost to the top of the booster with the force at full, and then strut it at the bottom to keep it stable. When you stage the decoupler, it will push the top away. I will still often use one separaton clipped into the nose of the booster with no more 1 second worth of fuel on very large boosters, just to make the separation cleaner.
If you still end up rolling you can always cut engines when down click prograde and then when you hit it coming out of the roll full throttle and counter steer. Works for me
the seperations are so clean, thanks for all the tips
The tanks on the stabilisators is really awesome!
The asparagus staging is something I haven't tried before and just.. Thank you
@VOAS - thank you. This is exactly what I was looking for. well presented and explained.
I honestly didn’t know these
OMG, I don't think I knew ANY of these tricks. Thank you
This is the real shit...i have been searching for this kinda KSP information...
Thanks VAOS...
In a rocket you need to keep the aerodynamic center or center of drag always behind (say lower) than the center of mass. During ascent the center of mass can shift dramatically (because of fuel burned away or staging...) so that at some point those rockets will start to flip as the CoM shifts below the center of drag. You can also stop that from happening through the flow priority option. Make sure the uppermost fuel tank gets drained last (has the lowest number) so the center of gravity stays high. Also during ascent drag is reduced so the force it can have on your rocket gets lower and lower.
I guess that the nose cones reduce drag on the front. Through adding them the center of lift doesn't seem to do anything in the VAB, but it might actually shift the center of lift more to the back during flight... why adding more nose cones even though there are no noses to cover further adds to the effect ... seems to be Kerbal science.
Now with the CoM more to the front of the rocket you might need to start the gravity turn later so the nose isn't dragged down too hard... or you need to add more wings on the back end ;)
The trick with the fuel line can also be done by enabling cross-eyed and setting tank flow priority.
That's actually pretty useful.
Very cool thank you
That was very helpful thanks
very good. entertaining. subbed
I usually consider my gravity turn good when I reach 45º at the 20km mark, that way the rocket will not turn in to a flamy popsicle, Its good to look at the TWR, my rockets are always at 1.20~ and I try not to go above 2.0 TWR on atmosphere (usually at like 50km that doesn't matter).
I think this is the first video I've seen of your's in Rocket Form.
You, Matt Lowne, and Mike Aben are my KSP go-to's. Piolet1549 sometimes. He talks WAY TOO FAsT...
BTW, the atmospheric gauge you were trying to remember the name of would most likely be a barometer
Thanks for the video.
I love how you prove you can keep it simple,I mean,its not rocket science. 😏
Ive found the smallest fins help stabilize and pull offnthe bosters or fuel tanks
Kinda ashamed to say that after 500 hours + played on this game now, I didn't understand what a gravity turn really is 😂.
Same here, and I had no idea or never even thought of putting a fuel tank on the struts to fuel my gigantic space station lifters that took about 10-15 seconds to stabilize before lift off.
Fins also stabilize by generating lift
REAL helpful 👍
5:18 doesn't work with tweak scale to copy you need to turn on symmetry on and then remove for symmetry
why rely on active stabilization when you can have passive automatic stabilization, ie, fins, even dropped finns
The Fuel tanks on the Launch Stabilizer is freakin GENIUS!! I will be using that a bit.
VAOS is Scott Manley 2.0
Matt Lowne is a bit too chatty for me and his rockets are WEIRD!!! He knows his craft extremely well. But he's like a Mad Rocket Scientist In my book. To each his own.
But I Certainly Respect the skills.
VAOS is right up my alley. Great lookin ships. Super useful tips. Matt, Scott, and Vaos should all three get together and make one crazy wild ship one day just for fun.
Like each of them make about 1/3 of the ship .... then send the file to each other and see what they end up with.
I've honestly never known how to gravity turn. I'll have to try it later. 🤔 the strut or structure part as a separation device I've heard you talk about it but it is. Nice to know how.
One trick I use for my staging is to have the booster engines lower then the primary engine. I also have never liked the hydronic release, I've always used the radial decouplers. The flatter ones for 1.8 size or smaller and the tall ones for 2.5 and larger. I sometimes use a single physical strut near the bottom of the rocket, don't know if it helps or not but with the engine weight below the primary engine the tails get pulled towards center and the tips spread out.
And BTW, the scale measures atmospheric density. And the very top of kerbin atmosphere is 70km. I shoot for 80 personally in career mode because nothing is worse then being just shy of orbit and falling back to kerbin with weak rockets or not enough fuel. Lol
Keep up the great work. 👍 the tips videos will surely be popular. Keep at them. Tips about landing various craft on the different bodies such as target par on approach. Making the landing more efficient. That kind of thing. I'm normally not very efficient and fairly "ham fisted" when it comes to my landings lol
What about bigger rockets ~200 tons? What is the best speed to initiate changing the angle?
It's not only about the rocket's weight, but more about its thrust-to-weight-ratio (TWR). The higher your TWR, the faster your rocket will accelerate, and the sooner you would want to initiate your gravity turn.
the first tip sounds odd... lol
um actually, you can use fins instead of panel, wayy better🤓
Barometer lol
4th
no, dlc is not stock/vanilla. thats absolutly not what it is!!!