I personally think that asking for permission is less about "copyright law" and more about respect between artists, as someone who is both a 2d and 3d artist I would be really uncomfortable if someone just directly used my work as a base for theirs without asking, I know how much work and creative vision it takes to translate a 2d idea into a 3d idea, but ultimately the end product aesthetically is based so heavily on the original work not checking in with the artist to make sure they're okay with what is kind've a 1 to 1 copy of their work being produced, much less _posted online_ for an audience. Imagine if someone took someones illustration, and turned it into a painting, but they used all the same lines, rendered over the original shadows, copied the colors and composition exactly, and then posted it on their social media all without asking the original artist if they were okay with that. the painter would still be adding their own technical and creative skill, but ultimately the foundation for the drawing wasn't theirs. I would be _stoked_ if someone made a model of my art, especially since I don't always have time between commissions to model for myself much, but I would still feel pretty insulted if they did it without bothering to put any thought into if i would be okay with it or not. anyway sorry not intended to come off as confrontational at all I just have big thoughts on the subject lmao, this model looks great btw!!
no worries, you didn't come off confrontational at all. i appreciate you took the time to listen and reply to what i said. i will clarify though that i was mostly trying to make moral argument not a legal one. i was just acknowledging the bias of my opinion and i was mostly arguing why i thought my use was fair not necessarily fair-use(though yeah i do think it's both too).
Agreed. And I don't think people who aren't character designers understand how much a character can mean to the artist, especially one that is also a writer. At least for some, it's their baby, a fictional person they have nurtured and given life. It may sound a bit silly to an outsider to the craft. To them it's like using a picture of someone's toddler without their permission. Inspiration or looking similar is one thing. Direct copying is another. I don't think it's illegal, per se. But it's kinda...not cool, you know? So I'm glad you ultimately decided to talk to the original creator. This is a great instructional video btw. I enjoyed watching your process.
Agreed here too. I think if it's a full on copy of my work, even as a different medium, I'd at the very least like to be told. I mean, I think copying for practice sake is fine, but if it were me I wouldn't want someone to post something and have someone mistake my work for someone else's. Us smaller creators don't have that wide spread renown, so each piece is a larger part of our identity. It may come off as disingenuous when people find out you didn't actually do the majority of the design, just the translation of it, especially if it's something being used to build a brand (either yours or theirs).
Still, when I browse Artstation, i often see 3d artists recreating 2d illustrations - but they of course credit the authors of original and link to them. Which gives me feel that its pretty common and eh accepted?
Its important to ask the original artist for many reasons. The original artist spent their own time on the original concept, character design and implementation. Its a lack of respect for this is you use their work with out asking for your own content. If you are using it for private education that's fine, (that is fair use) but riding off the coat tails of others without even mentioning or linking it to them especially with out asking it horrible to do to someone. It also shows that you do not care about the original artist and respect their work and can show that you are just in it for yourself and pins you as selfish as well. People not citing the original artist and not asking them is also inked to art theft and posing that the other artists work is your own, its sleaze and not a good tactic. Asking and providing sources is a must, and helps you be a part of a community.
Just as a note, there are multiple court cases that have clarified that copying a piece of artwork into another medium is explicitly not fair use (see: Rogers v. Koons, or just recently the successful appeal of Jingna Zhang).
Good to mention and also should be noted that any exemption like "Fair Use/Fair Dealing" is an affirmative defense - meaning it must be defended in court, one can't simply assume permission or that your evaluation is correct. The "Four Factors" judges use to evaluate are: 1) the purpose and character of your use 2) the nature of the copyrighted work 3) the amount and substantiality of the portion taken, and 4) the effect of the use upon the potential market In this case, if this video is not monetized (1,4) and the model is not distributed (4) and was used only for personal education (1), it's likely that the fair use case is strong. Though that wouldn't prevent the original author from being within their rights to request a takedown, because the entire concept is used (3), and it is just a translation (i.e. not transformative) of medium (2). It's also why for example (lobbying budget effects aside) the case for generative AI being fair use is weak, because it fails multiple of the four factors evaluations at each step of the process (dataset collection, data processing, training, and then generation) and it would need to succeed at each and every step of the process to be a valid exemption.
Personally, if you call it fanart and a gift and sugar it up with some enthusiastic compliments (stuff like “i saw this adorable concept and absolutely had to make it because omg just look at her!!”), and tag the artist properly (no pinterest shit.) i dont think its a big problem to get the original artist’s permission. Its about framing too.
It's interesting, when I went to school for 3D art we were told that when working on a project from reference that we didn't have to contact the artist, especially because you could get a no. But as an artist I wasn't sure if I liked that way of going about it. I'm still on the fence.
Did they say it to do it outside of practice? I used to just model whatever I liked without knowing the artist when I was still learning. I wasn't going to upload them anywhere. But when I started to model something to put into my portfolio, I always seeked permission to do so.
@@DearShion It is pretty stupid, yes. But basically they thought a definitive no is worse then asking. I think part of it was assuming the thing you made would be used for something perhaps. But it's something I don't know how i feel about, I like getting permission for things from an artist.
Hey for the line art issue with the hair, consider Tradigital's Line Art asset -- you can have one instance only do outlines/silhouette and then duplicate the thing and make the other one focus on creases (and apply different colors to each, and specify which collection has the same lines) I think it'd work well for your hair
from a moral standpoint, credit is not only paying respect to the creator of the original work, but also recognition. Since you mentioned you are more into RUclips, you know how it is when a reaction channel with millions of subs and viewers reacts to a video that's got a fraction of the views. People are mostly not going to go watch the original; the reactor has gotten all the exposure, audience reach, and potentially also monetization, things which the original won't see at all. It's the same with art, if an artist copies the pose, colours, concept etc. of an image found on Pinterest, and their audience is much larger, they have sponsors, they have a ton of subs, all the rewards reaped from the original piece which laid the foundations for the new art are going to the "thief", with no recognition or respect to the original.
Yeah, recognition is important. That's why I acknowledged that I made a mistake by not linking back to the original source. But the amount of views something gets has nothing to do with recognition. The examples your giving are people uploading content on the same platform, in the same medium, to the same audience, with minimal to no input. In these situations I personally don't think that's fair. And no amount of recognition would change that.
Turned out great! Really liked the showcase at the end. Have you tried using lattices to help pose stuff like the skirt? It gives you more control than just shape keys and sculpting. You can use them both in tandem
Onward and upwards from here own. I say, you'll learn a lot about the community as you pick and choose models to make. Though coming up with ideas from bits and pieces is much better, something you can call your own and you'll own the rights to the model, yes it'll require thinking up a character but to be honest it's really much more rewarding.
Around 6:00 when you talk about the line art for the hair, there is one tip that might help for line art that the game company Arc system team has done for their characters try looking them up, they talk about inner lines and the technique will be pretty much helpful in this case
I wish I took my time to start learning stuff before I got into the first year of university, lol. I finally started drawing this year, since I guess I finally developed a sense for analysing my mistakes and improving on them, and it motivated me to also try out 3D in the near future. It's really hard when you finally realise that your dreams of becoming an artist are real but instead of committing to it you have to focus on learning a bunch of confusing programming material and somehow writing code that your own teachers don't explain to you, while your own country doesn't want you to live unless you never drop out and finish your full IT education I wish I could instead play minecraft up until 6AM and not worry about all that, like I did twelve years ago :(
As a person who gives everything for free use without watermarks in his entire artistic life (whether to mark me as an author or not is up to the person who is going to use the picture, etc.), I do not see this as a problem. Of course, not everyone is like that, and some really need to ask permission, which you usually get refused, since there are people who hate fanarts, gifts, and so on, and they don't care about the existence of a pinterest, in which you really dont understand how you will find the author Т_Т"
It's probably not the best way to do this, but basically, it's a circle with 3 loops. One loop has the first image, and then the next loop is the colour, and then the final loop is the 2nd image. The first two loops start off really small, so you only see the first image. Then then using shape keys, the two smaller loops grow until you only see the 2nd image. Then, as a final step, hide the circle and repeat.
I find it easier to use a base since it saves time. But it can cause copyright issues, and it can be hard to find the body type you need. There's also the educational factor of building a body from scratch.
I feel like if you clarify the model is for practice or a fanwork, and then directly link back to the artist it should be fine. As for asking for permission each time, I’m not too sure. On one hand, I do feel like asking permission would be the respectful thing to do. On the other hand, I feel like getting a 3D model of your artwork would be a nice enough gesture to be considered respectful? As long as you don’t make any money from the model, classify it as a fanwork(or practice), properly credit the original artist, and don’t put it on your portfolio, then it should be good. Idk enough bout copyright laws tho, so take my opinion with a grain of salt I guess lol
ig the permission thing is more about like "hey, heads up" typa thing, but at the same time making a blender/3d fanart of a 2d art piece that's extremely loyal to the source material is very cool. i, too, think this is definetly fair use, but i do hope you consider what that person said tho. mb someone might b salty and sue you or ask for "their cut of the money" for your ad revenue or something. just a thought.
Nah... This is the first video I saw from you and let me tell you, I don't intend to watch any others or subscribe at all. It already rubbed me the wrong way when you couldn't even have the courtesy to mention the original artist's NAME or handle "this person and stuff..". Not even write it down on the description box. Yeah. No. You could argue all you wanted about "fair use" and shit, but at the end of the day, the artistic community expects courtesy. The original artist was sweet to let you use the work, but thats kudos to them and thats it. I would have NEVEEEEER clicked on you video if it wasn't for the cute character on the thumbnail. A character you didn't create. You are getting views, likes, comments and all BECAUSE of the original artist, . I am at least glad you intend to link to the actual source from now on.... How you feel about this in a year or so, I couldn't care less.
Кино![How I Made My VTuber Move! 🌸💚 [Part 2: Rigging the Eyes, Mouth, and Head]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/AM-DYj0d5vo/mqdefault.jpg)
![How I Made My VTuber Move! 🌸💚 [Part 2: Rigging the Eyes, Mouth, and Head]](/img/tr.png)
Asking to use people’s concepts is more respect based, less copyright based
"I don't really talk to other artists" yea bud it shows
He is just pathetic I hope he never succes with that mentality
I personally think that asking for permission is less about "copyright law" and more about respect between artists, as someone who is both a 2d and 3d artist I would be really uncomfortable if someone just directly used my work as a base for theirs without asking, I know how much work and creative vision it takes to translate a 2d idea into a 3d idea, but ultimately the end product aesthetically is based so heavily on the original work not checking in with the artist to make sure they're okay with what is kind've a 1 to 1 copy of their work being produced, much less _posted online_ for an audience. Imagine if someone took someones illustration, and turned it into a painting, but they used all the same lines, rendered over the original shadows, copied the colors and composition exactly, and then posted it on their social media all without asking the original artist if they were okay with that. the painter would still be adding their own technical and creative skill, but ultimately the foundation for the drawing wasn't theirs.
I would be _stoked_ if someone made a model of my art, especially since I don't always have time between commissions to model for myself much, but I would still feel pretty insulted if they did it without bothering to put any thought into if i would be okay with it or not.
anyway sorry not intended to come off as confrontational at all I just have big thoughts on the subject lmao, this model looks great btw!!
no worries, you didn't come off confrontational at all. i appreciate you took the time to listen and reply to what i said. i will clarify though that i was mostly trying to make moral argument not a legal one. i was just acknowledging the bias of my opinion and i was mostly arguing why i thought my use was fair not necessarily fair-use(though yeah i do think it's both too).
Agreed. And I don't think people who aren't character designers understand how much a character can mean to the artist, especially one that is also a writer. At least for some, it's their baby, a fictional person they have nurtured and given life. It may sound a bit silly to an outsider to the craft. To them it's like using a picture of someone's toddler without their permission. Inspiration or looking similar is one thing. Direct copying is another. I don't think it's illegal, per se. But it's kinda...not cool, you know? So I'm glad you ultimately decided to talk to the original creator. This is a great instructional video btw. I enjoyed watching your process.
Agreed here too. I think if it's a full on copy of my work, even as a different medium, I'd at the very least like to be told. I mean, I think copying for practice sake is fine, but if it were me I wouldn't want someone to post something and have someone mistake my work for someone else's. Us smaller creators don't have that wide spread renown, so each piece is a larger part of our identity. It may come off as disingenuous when people find out you didn't actually do the majority of the design, just the translation of it, especially if it's something being used to build a brand (either yours or theirs).
Still, when I browse Artstation, i often see 3d artists recreating 2d illustrations - but they of course credit the authors of original and link to them. Which gives me feel that its pretty common and eh accepted?
@@close2animationi think if you call it fanart it might be a nice suprise.
Its important to ask the original artist for many reasons. The original artist spent their own time on the original concept, character design and implementation. Its a lack of respect for this is you use their work with out asking for your own content.
If you are using it for private education that's fine, (that is fair use) but riding off the coat tails of others without even mentioning or linking it to them especially with out asking it horrible to do to someone.
It also shows that you do not care about the original artist and respect their work and can show that you are just in it for yourself and pins you as selfish as well. People not citing the original artist and not asking them is also inked to art theft and posing that the other artists work is your own, its sleaze and not a good tactic. Asking and providing sources is a must, and helps you be a part of a community.
Just as a note, there are multiple court cases that have clarified that copying a piece of artwork into another medium is explicitly not fair use (see: Rogers v. Koons, or just recently the successful appeal of Jingna Zhang).
Good to mention and also should be noted that any exemption like "Fair Use/Fair Dealing" is an affirmative defense - meaning it must be defended in court, one can't simply assume permission or that your evaluation is correct.
The "Four Factors" judges use to evaluate are:
1) the purpose and character of your use
2) the nature of the copyrighted work
3) the amount and substantiality of the portion taken, and
4) the effect of the use upon the potential market
In this case, if this video is not monetized (1,4) and the model is not distributed (4) and was used only for personal education (1), it's likely that the fair use case is strong. Though that wouldn't prevent the original author from being within their rights to request a takedown, because the entire concept is used (3), and it is just a translation (i.e. not transformative) of medium (2).
It's also why for example (lobbying budget effects aside) the case for generative AI being fair use is weak, because it fails multiple of the four factors evaluations at each step of the process (dataset collection, data processing, training, and then generation) and it would need to succeed at each and every step of the process to be a valid exemption.
Personally, if you call it fanart and a gift and sugar it up with some enthusiastic compliments (stuff like “i saw this adorable concept and absolutely had to make it because omg just look at her!!”), and tag the artist properly (no pinterest shit.) i dont think its a big problem to get the original artist’s permission. Its about framing too.
It's interesting, when I went to school for 3D art we were told that when working on a project from reference that we didn't have to contact the artist, especially because you could get a no. But as an artist I wasn't sure if I liked that way of going about it. I'm still on the fence.
Did they say it to do it outside of practice? I used to just model whatever I liked without knowing the artist when I was still learning. I wasn't going to upload them anywhere. But when I started to model something to put into my portfolio, I always seeked permission to do so.
What kinda stupid way of thinking is that? "Don't ask cause you might get a no"?? Lmao
@@DearShion It is pretty stupid, yes. But basically they thought a definitive no is worse then asking. I think part of it was assuming the thing you made would be used for something perhaps. But it's something I don't know how i feel about, I like getting permission for things from an artist.
Hey for the line art issue with the hair, consider Tradigital's Line Art asset -- you can have one instance only do outlines/silhouette and then duplicate the thing and make the other one focus on creases (and apply different colors to each, and specify which collection has the same lines) I think it'd work well for your hair
I just checked out the video for that. It definitely would have been a good use case for it. Thanks for letting me know about it.
@@close2animation Can you make a new video using this?
maybe.
from a moral standpoint, credit is not only paying respect to the creator of the original work, but also recognition. Since you mentioned you are more into RUclips, you know how it is when a reaction channel with millions of subs and viewers reacts to a video that's got a fraction of the views. People are mostly not going to go watch the original; the reactor has gotten all the exposure, audience reach, and potentially also monetization, things which the original won't see at all. It's the same with art, if an artist copies the pose, colours, concept etc. of an image found on Pinterest, and their audience is much larger, they have sponsors, they have a ton of subs, all the rewards reaped from the original piece which laid the foundations for the new art are going to the "thief", with no recognition or respect to the original.
Yeah, recognition is important. That's why I acknowledged that I made a mistake by not linking back to the original source.
But the amount of views something gets has nothing to do with recognition. The examples your giving are people uploading content on the same platform, in the same medium, to the same audience, with minimal to no input.
In these situations I personally don't think that's fair. And no amount of recognition would change that.
THIS IS SO COOL!! glad I got to see ur process for it
It looks amazing bro, i love how it turned out
Pd: i also hate retopology
Quad Remesher is the best retopo tool that I've used. (And I've used them all!) Anyway, it isn't free, but there is a 30-day trial for it.
@@IllyasArti dont like subscribtion based programs, is there a lifetime purchase option?
@@tikimillie They offer a three month sub, but also a lifetime license, which is only $110.
Turned out great! Really liked the showcase at the end. Have you tried using lattices to help pose stuff like the skirt? It gives you more control than just shape keys and sculpting. You can use them both in tandem
Yeah, that sounds like a good idea. I think I've used lattices before for hair, but it's been a while.
very nice 👍 outlines look clean
You are so awesomeee I love this!!!
4:21 oh so that's how they achieved that weird clothes texture thing in chowder, adorable character model btw
Onward and upwards from here own.
I say, you'll learn a lot about the community as you pick and choose models to make.
Though coming up with ideas from bits and pieces is much better, something you can call your own and you'll own the rights to the model, yes it'll require thinking up a character but to be honest it's really much more rewarding.
love it ❤
Around 6:00 when you talk about the line art for the hair, there is one tip that might help for line art that the game company Arc system team has done for their characters try looking them up, they talk about inner lines and the technique will be pretty much helpful in this case
Thanks, yeah, I'm familiar with that technique. The issue here was more so the inverse hull technique giving me lines i didn't want.
@@close2animationHow about texturing in those lines?
I wish I took my time to start learning stuff before I got into the first year of university, lol. I finally started drawing this year, since I guess I finally developed a sense for analysing my mistakes and improving on them, and it motivated me to also try out 3D in the near future. It's really hard when you finally realise that your dreams of becoming an artist are real but instead of committing to it you have to focus on learning a bunch of confusing programming material and somehow writing code that your own teachers don't explain to you, while your own country doesn't want you to live unless you never drop out and finish your full IT education
I wish I could instead play minecraft up until 6AM and not worry about all that, like I did twelve years ago :(
what did you use to retopologize? also your method of texturing the hat and skirt is genius
Thanks. I used wrap3d I think. From faceform.
Nice work,king. Please continue. +1 subscriber
Oh! Cute!
As a person who gives everything for free use without watermarks in his entire artistic life (whether to mark me as an author or not is up to the person who is going to use the picture, etc.), I do not see this as a problem. Of course, not everyone is like that, and some really need to ask permission, which you usually get refused, since there are people who hate fanarts, gifts, and so on, and they don't care about the existence of a pinterest, in which you really dont understand how you will find the author Т_Т"
nice nice ✨👍
I'm not sure how to do the transition around the 13 minute mark, can you explain in detail?
trimming the mesh?
It's probably not the best way to do this, but basically, it's a circle with 3 loops. One loop has the first image, and then the next loop is the colour, and then the final loop is the 2nd image. The first two loops start off really small, so you only see the first image. Then then using shape keys, the two smaller loops grow until you only see the 2nd image. Then, as a final step, hide the circle and repeat.
@@close2animation Thanks, I understand.
cool
Im new to blender, what's the point of doing a body from zero vs always having a base model and modify it, great video more please.
I find it easier to use a base since it saves time. But it can cause copyright issues, and it can be hard to find the body type you need.
There's also the educational factor of building a body from scratch.
Ebaaah achei UwU
I completely agree with you with fair use and transformative content. Though I think asking is just the culture in the art community for curtesy.
"Would it really be a proper project if I didn't unnecessarily stress over it?" No, no it would not :D
Hello! One year ago you uploaded Kurumi model, can you say is that model rigged?
No, it's not.
kind of fucked up that you wouldnt ask permission to use this artist's design. it's not about legality, it's about respect and morality
please can you do a anime forest path
Maybe at some point, but not anytime soon.
4:17
I feel like if you clarify the model is for practice or a fanwork, and then directly link back to the artist it should be fine. As for asking for permission each time, I’m not too sure. On one hand, I do feel like asking permission would be the respectful thing to do. On the other hand, I feel like getting a 3D model of your artwork would be a nice enough gesture to be considered respectful? As long as you don’t make any money from the model, classify it as a fanwork(or practice), properly credit the original artist, and don’t put it on your portfolio, then it should be good. Idk enough bout copyright laws tho, so take my opinion with a grain of salt I guess lol
ig the permission thing is more about like "hey, heads up" typa thing, but at the same time making a blender/3d fanart of a 2d art piece that's extremely loyal to the source material is very cool. i, too, think this is definetly fair use, but i do hope you consider what that person said tho. mb someone might b salty and sue you or ask for "their cut of the money" for your ad revenue or something. just a thought.
don't worry, their words didn't fall on deaf ears.
"simple"... until you get to the texturing.
Can you 3D Print me- I mean uhh my friend that model out of silicone, definitely asking for a friend totally... yeah
Nah... This is the first video I saw from you and let me tell you, I don't intend to watch any others or subscribe at all. It already rubbed me the wrong way when you couldn't even have the courtesy to mention the original artist's NAME or handle "this person and stuff..". Not even write it down on the description box. Yeah. No. You could argue all you wanted about "fair use" and shit, but at the end of the day, the artistic community expects courtesy. The original artist was sweet to let you use the work, but thats kudos to them and thats it. I would have NEVEEEEER clicked on you video if it wasn't for the cute character on the thumbnail. A character you didn't create. You are getting views, likes, comments and all BECAUSE of the original artist, . I am at least glad you intend to link to the actual source from now on.... How you feel about this in a year or so, I couldn't care less.
Download?
Sorry, I'm not putting this character up for download.
@@close2animation Sharing is caring.