I have lived under the the northeast approach to Bradley for 35 years. They come over me at about 1800 feet. I am heart broken for the crew and passengers. There is a huge difference when it happens across the country. When it happens so close, it is heartbreaking. My heart goes out to the crew and families. May God Bless them all.
Watching this just made made more tears come to my eyes. I feel so bad for the loss of the plane and for those lives that were ended by this tragic accident.
Rest peacefully those who have perished and Nine-O-Nine (Oct. 2, 2019) . This war plane was gorgeous and gave me goosebumps watching and listening to it. What a tragic loss, both life and beautiful plane
I flew on the plane in Laconia N.H. 7 days before it went down. So sorry to see this happen. RIP to those who perished. Speady recovery to the survivors.
It flew right over our heads at about 400 feet as 909 departed Fitchburg at about 5:00 PM on Sunday! I am so sad for her loss, and the crew and passengers families.
I saw her at Laconia airport a couple weeks ago. Had to leave the show just before she was scheduled to leave for a short flight. I stopped at the supermarket just off the end of the runway and the sound she made going overhead was so awesome. May her lost passengers and crew rest in peace and may the survivors recover quickly.
Similarities with EL AL 1862, everything fine until the aircraft is slowed and undercarriage deployed, the aerodynamics suddenly change, the plane veers or rolls but has already descended for landing, pilot suddenly and without warning has very few options or none at all.
Remaining calm is essential to finding your way out of the problem. But sometimes too many things just go wrong and you don't have altitude = time to recover.
Did you read the NTSB report? Pilot error, poor airmanship and the engines were a wreck, piss poor maintenance by the pilot who was also in charge of maintenance - it should never have left the ground.
Losing one engine on a four engine aircraft is not an emergency just because it happened. Of course the pilot will come back, but unless there is collateral damage, loss of power to one engine is generally not a fatal event. Very sad to lose Nine-O-Nine in this way, just saw her in Nashua last Sunday :(
@@jeepnutnh Disagree. You should immediately declare a Mayday. You can always downgrade it to a Pan call once you have things under control and have reviewed the situation. As it was the ATC didn't spark and they are the people who should have been put on full alert, stopped all inbound traffic and given them their full attention after hearing a proper distress call .....and additionally getting the Emergency firetruck and Ambulance crews on the ball. ......Slack procedures.
Aviate , Navigate, Communicate. He was a little busy. There must have been some reason why a lightly loaded aircraft could not hold altitude. Hopefully a tear down of the engines and propellers will be done,
Something more than one engine failed, here. I don't want it to be the pilot, but that may be where the facts end up taking us. Still, it could have been loss of power, loss of control, it's still early.
I wonder if he was too high to land on the northwest runway and if that was an option? But this pilot was one of the best out there so we have to abide by his judgment. I know a WWII B-17 pilot from Wurtsboro airport near Orange Co. N.Y. who's in his 90's. These men are great pilots. I've said prayers for everybody on board and for their families. God bless them all.
At Seattle every year we would usually have 17s come near the end of April, then one around Memorial Day, then one about a month later. Sadly. 2 of the 3 have crashed
One of the "909" website videos stated Mac McCauley had the most hours in a B-17 than any other person IN HISTORY. This means he had more experience in total hours in a B-17 than any other person in the history of the B-17 including pilots during WWII. I've wondered why he didn't land to the Northwest. Maybe he was too high from his present position. That runway was shorter than the one he took off from. We just have to wait for the NTSB report. Man, this really depresses me. I pray for the families and friends and the souls of the departed. God bless them.
@@daffidavit could be wrong but I heard some chatter that one of the engines failed. Were it an outboard and you were turning towards that engine on your final and lost another engine on the same side that could have caused the plane to make an extreme deviation, and would explain it going off the runway.
@@3RTracing Unfortunately we'll just have to wait for the preliminary NTSB report. There will be lots of conflicting, but good-intentioned people trying to help to explain things. But I personally believe it's best to just wait for a preliminary report. There will be lots of speculation and rumors. Some might have some honest truth to them. I did notice on Google Earth that on the far west side, there is a military section where there seems to be some transport turbojet craft. Maybe military transport cargo airplanes. I'll bet there is some security film footage by the Airforce that will become available. Just a hunch on that note. Let's wait and see. Also, some sort of a small shack seems to be left of the landing approach lights on the grass short of rwy 6 on Google Earth. It's a pretty far distance to the storage tanks. That's why I believe we need to just wait and see. This event is way too complicated to speculate about IMHO. Thank you for your input, however. Be well.
@@daffidavit you are right, speculation, but in the NTSB press conference this AM failed power did come up. As well as the potential of the wing (port??) hooking a light standard, which, like a failed power plant would divert the line of travel. But I've been to this rodeo before. I agree let the feet on the ground, and the forensic professionals vet this one out.
I am 67 years old and an Ex RAF aircraft engineer, I have worked with Crash investigators from AIB at Farnborough UK for some time and have been involved with the investigation to many accidents over many years. to blame the age of the aircraft is irrelevant, as there are many older airframes out there still flying and far more modern ones crashing, shit happens, its tragic, and I feel for all the families involved as I have for many years before, but please do not ground these airplanes because of their years or age. Would you ban a Model T ford because it has no airbags?
"Do you need to be on the ground right now?" Maybe it's just me but the answer to this and the previous transmission seemed a bit garbled. Sounds like things were happening fast. Very sorry. Condolences- RIP.
Wow, I saw the N-number in the title and remembered that I’ve seen this aircraft flying over before, both when at home and at work. Sad. Makes me wonder what else happened after they lost number four.
I’m guessing it was a uncontained failure that effected the flaps. Would make sense as to why they had a hard time maintaining altitude on final. I guess we’ll all have to wait and see what the NTSB report says.
Every pilot on every landing is flirting with a stall. It's bad enough with an engine out. If there was a second problem on top of that which put the plane into stall, with no time for recovery, it wouldn't have mattered if Batman was flying the plane.
B17s took all sorts of heavy damage during WW2 and very often made it safely 'home'. Just seems strange and a terrible tragedy. Deepest Sympathy from the UK.
In WW2 all 10 people onboard were drilled as a team and trained for emergencies. In this crash, there were 10 passengers and only 3 crew on board, the B-17 was not designed for that.
The landing and take off are the most dangerous part if any flight in any plane. The b17 could take a lot in terms of flak but couldnt take crashing into something. Rest to those who died in this crash
@@LardGreystoke I'm sure that you are right friend. They would have been very professional aviators. In addition,the crews that brought B17s back to their bases in England during WW2, would have been, in most cases, badly wounded with dead comrades on board too. This of course, does not make this accident any less tragic.
What a Tragedy, I can't hardly believe it . Back during the War many B17s returned to Base after being shot Up very badly, with less than 4 engine's. I almost rode in the nine O Nine twice on the West Coast. Our Condolences!
Yeah, the pilot didn't sound panicked or anything. I did notice though that he reported trouble with engine #4. Eye witnesses on the ground said that the #3 engine failed on take-off as well. If that's true, that'd mean he lost both engines on the right, which would cause the aircraft to yaw hard to that side and stall. That was almost always a fatal stall with B-17's during World War II.
A b17 is a 70+ year old plane and and could barely run on 3 engines. Today we have smaller fighter jets with one engine stronger then all 4 of these engines by a ton. And from other reports now it seems both engines 3 and 4 were failing which would have made the aircraft lose control. Rest in peace though
From what i have read, the turbochargers on these aircraft are disabled for safety reasons. They tended to explode when they failed and send shrapnel through the fuselage.The wastegates are removed to disable them. That means if you lose one engine you need the others to run at full power to stay in the air. If they lost 2 engines it was fatal.
@@americanpatriot3638 Turbos usually only kick in at about 15,000 ft !!!! The engines have their own built in mechanical supercharger that is fed by the turbocharger over 15,000 ft !!! Most of those old warbirds do not fly that high as they are unpressurized and stay below 10,000. B17's and B24's both had this type 2 stage supercharging systems !!!! At that low altitude the engine made full power with just the mechanical supercharger !!!
Tell ya what - If I were in one of those war birds - I'd feel totally comfortable with the level of training and skill this crew had!! There is lots of debate here on whether or not to declare emergency. With training, losing an engine is usually not critical; but it is demanding. With a declaration, he could have requested leaving the pattern and circled RIGHT; favoring the natural yaw from the power differential and providing more options. The Collins Foundation family should be in thoughts also! They are seriously grieving.
Information out now is the wrong fuel was put in the plane giving number 4 engine problems first and then two more shutting down on final causing the crash. If that's what happened then that's a real shame. My son who's a commercial pilot did his normal preflight check on his plane and spotted an abnormal fuel spill under his wing and saw it was jetfuel that had mistakenly been put in his 206. The fuel barrels were mislabeled. A potential tragedy averted by a young diligent pilot.
How can the fueling personnel at the airport make a mistake like that? That is as blatant as a pilot making CFIT. Very basic that recips use gasoline and not jet fuel / kerosene.
Crash was they think in part to the plane touching down short of runway threshold hitting some antennas and then vering off to the right hitting the de-icing facility
Any way to confirm this? Who told you that? Seems plausible the pilot was distracted with the engine 4 issue and made a simple mistake by clipping the ILS system.
It's been reported in several places that the plane clipped at least one NAVAID before landing. She came in right wing low, clipped the equipment, then veered to the right before hitting the deicing station. I've read that deicing solution can be flammable, which would explain the near complete destruction of the aircraft. I took my son on Nine-O-Nine a few years ago. As WWII buffs, it was one of the most amazing experiences of our lives. The pilot, "Mac" McCauley, was a friendly person that loved to talk about his aircraft. He was also a consummate professional, as came through in the radio transmissions. My guess is he never doubted for a second his ability to bring her home. May he, and all the victims of this tragic event, RIP. I suspect they were fulfilling a life long dream when their lives were horribly cut short.
It only took a matter of seconds for ATC to determine whether the B-17 needed to land immediately, and then send the jet traffic back to a holding altitude.
Did the pilot have any Flight Simulator Training on 3 engine landings ? Something seems amiss. No disrespect, but unless more problems occurred on approach, they should have been able to land safely.
@@MarkSmith-js2pu I have been a manual and CNC machinist more than 40 years, worked in 17 different shops, setup and programmed 50 different cnc mills. And there is still so much to learn, nobody knows it all.. All I was asking is, did this pilot have any simulator training flying on 3 engines.
@@forrestgumpv9049 A lightly loaded Fortress would manage it easily on 3 engines. Only issue would be a turn on single engined side.Lots of B-24s went down like that due to power asymetry. As some one said above if true it hit ground equipment (|LS) causing the accident. FAA will sort no point speculating. A very sad loss. Looks total so on less but all those lives lost cannot be brought back. There are still other B-17's. Unfortunately the conveyor belt of time will slowly ground these icons. That and the shortage of parts.
![UCF Professor Richard Quinn accuses class of cheating [Original]](/img/1.gif)
I have lived under the the northeast approach to Bradley for 35 years. They come over me at about 1800 feet. I am heart broken for the crew and passengers. There is a huge difference when it happens across the country. When it happens so close, it is heartbreaking. My heart goes out to the crew and families. May God Bless them all.
Im also from WL and work at the airport. Very sad
Watching this just made made more tears come to my eyes. I feel so bad for the loss of the plane and for those lives that were ended by this tragic accident.
Sam Pelczarski I couldn’t agree more
Rest peacefully those who have perished and Nine-O-Nine (Oct. 2, 2019) . This war plane was gorgeous and gave me goosebumps watching and listening to it. What a tragic loss, both life and beautiful plane
my uncle was on it
Such a tragedy. RIP those lost and thoughts for the injured.
Prayers for a speedy recovery.
I flew on the plane in Laconia N.H. 7 days before it went down. So sorry to see this happen. RIP to those who perished. Speady recovery to the survivors.
Saw this same plane on Sunday at the Nashua Airport. The sights and sounds of a piece of history are now lost. Rest in peace 909 crew and passengers.
It flew right over our heads at about 400 feet as 909 departed Fitchburg at about 5:00 PM on Sunday! I am so sad for her loss, and the crew and passengers families.
I saw her at Laconia airport a couple weeks ago. Had to leave the show just before she was scheduled to leave for a short flight. I stopped at the supermarket just off the end of the runway and the sound she made going overhead was so awesome. May her lost passengers and crew rest in peace and may the survivors recover quickly.
Thoughts and prayers for crew and passengers and their families. I'm very sorry for The Collings Foundations loss, Prayers to them as well.
Pilot seems to have everything under control and calm, such a shame.
Similarities with EL AL 1862, everything fine until the aircraft is slowed and undercarriage deployed, the aerodynamics suddenly change, the plane veers or rolls but has already descended for landing, pilot suddenly and without warning has very few options or none at all.
Remaining calm is essential to finding your way out of the problem. But sometimes too many things just go wrong and you don't have altitude = time to recover.
Did you read the NTSB report?
Pilot error, poor airmanship and the engines were a wreck, piss poor maintenance by the pilot who was also in charge of maintenance - it should never have left the ground.
This plane was held together with bailing wire and was a mechanical nightmare. Unbelievable.
I do not understand why the pilots initial call was not declaring an emergency.
Losing one engine on a four engine aircraft is not an emergency just because it happened.
Of course the pilot will come back, but unless there is collateral damage, loss of power to one engine is generally not a fatal event.
Very sad to lose Nine-O-Nine in this way, just saw her in Nashua last Sunday :(
@@jeepnutnh Disagree. You should immediately declare a Mayday. You can always downgrade it to a Pan call once you have things under control and have reviewed the situation. As it was the ATC didn't spark and they are the people who should have been put on full alert, stopped all inbound traffic and given them their full attention after hearing a proper distress call .....and additionally getting the Emergency firetruck and Ambulance crews on the ball. ......Slack procedures.
OK
Aviate , Navigate, Communicate. He was a little busy. There must have been some reason why a lightly loaded aircraft could not hold altitude. Hopefully a tear down of the engines and propellers will be done,
Something more than one engine failed, here. I don't want it to be the pilot, but that may be where the facts end up taking us. Still, it could have been loss of power, loss of control, it's still early.
I wonder if he was too high to land on the northwest runway and if that was an option? But this pilot was one of the best out there so we have to abide by his judgment. I know a WWII B-17 pilot from Wurtsboro airport near Orange Co. N.Y. who's in his 90's. These men are great pilots. I've said prayers for everybody on board and for their families. God bless them all.
May God bless you all an keep you safe in heaven
Let's hope so. He was apparently unable to keep them safe in this life.
Over the years she and her crew were frequent and much loved visitors to San Luis Obispo. Seeing her flying over Edna Valley was always a treat!
At Seattle every year we would usually have 17s come near the end of April, then one around Memorial Day, then one about a month later. Sadly. 2 of the 3 have crashed
That is so sad
Thanks for the ride and memories 9-0-9 and crew RIP.
was Mac McCaully the pilot? IF so he is the most houred and experienced B17 pilot in aviation. Sad if he is gone.
One of the "909" website videos stated Mac McCauley had the most hours in a B-17 than any other person IN HISTORY. This means he had more experience in total hours in a B-17 than any other person in the history of the B-17 including pilots during WWII.
I've wondered why he didn't land to the Northwest. Maybe he was too high from his present position. That runway was shorter than the one he took off from. We just have to wait for the NTSB report. Man, this really depresses me. I pray for the families and friends and the souls of the departed. God bless them.
@@daffidavit could be wrong but I heard some chatter that one of the engines failed. Were it an outboard and you were turning towards that engine on your final and lost another engine on the same side that could have caused the plane to make an extreme deviation, and would explain it going off the runway.
@@3RTracing Unfortunately we'll just have to wait for the preliminary NTSB report. There will be lots of conflicting, but good-intentioned people trying to help to explain things. But I personally believe it's best to just wait for a preliminary report. There will be lots of speculation and rumors. Some might have some honest truth to them. I did notice on Google Earth that on the far west side, there is a military section where there seems to be some transport turbojet craft. Maybe military transport cargo airplanes. I'll bet there is some security film footage by the Airforce that will become available. Just a hunch on that note. Let's wait and see. Also, some sort of a small shack seems to be left of the landing approach lights on the grass short of rwy 6 on Google Earth. It's a pretty far distance to the storage tanks. That's why I believe we need to just wait and see. This event is way too complicated to speculate about IMHO. Thank you for your input, however. Be well.
@@daffidavit you are right, speculation, but in the NTSB press conference this AM failed power did come up. As well as the potential of the wing (port??) hooking a light standard, which, like a failed power plant would divert the line of travel. But I've been to this rodeo before. I agree let the feet on the ground, and the forensic professionals vet this one out.
I am 67 years old and an Ex RAF aircraft engineer, I have worked with Crash investigators from AIB at Farnborough UK for some time and have been involved with the investigation to many accidents over many years. to blame the age of the aircraft is irrelevant, as there are many older airframes out there still flying and far more modern ones crashing, shit happens, its tragic, and I feel for all the families involved as I have for many years before, but please do not ground these airplanes because of their years or age. Would you ban a Model T ford because it has no airbags?
"Do you need to be on the ground right now?" Maybe it's just me but the answer to this and the previous transmission seemed a bit garbled. Sounds like things were happening fast. Very sorry. Condolences- RIP.
Yes. Seemed to be some confusion about this being an emergency or not.
Wow, I saw the N-number in the title and remembered that I’ve seen this aircraft flying over before, both when at home and at work. Sad.
Makes me wonder what else happened after they lost number four.
Usually pilots can recover from a single problem. When two or more problems pile up things start getting hairy.
I’m guessing it was a uncontained failure that effected the flaps. Would make sense as to why they had a hard time maintaining altitude on final. I guess we’ll all have to wait and see what the NTSB report says.
Every pilot on every landing is flirting with a stall. It's bad enough with an engine out. If there was a second problem on top of that which put the plane into stall, with no time for recovery, it wouldn't have mattered if Batman was flying the plane.
LardGreystoke exactly where I’m at with it.
Rest in Eternal Slumber.....9er'
I saw this plane a week before it crashed when it was in Illinois, so sad.
B17s took all sorts of heavy damage during WW2 and very often made it safely 'home'.
Just seems strange and a terrible tragedy.
Deepest Sympathy from the UK.
In WW2 all 10 people onboard were drilled as a team and trained for emergencies. In this crash, there were 10 passengers and only 3 crew on board, the B-17 was not designed for that.
The landing and take off are the most dangerous part if any flight in any plane. The b17 could take a lot in terms of flak but couldnt take crashing into something. Rest to those who died in this crash
From the standpoint of getting the plane on the ground this plane had the same effective crew as the ones in the war.
@@LardGreystoke
I'm sure that you are right friend.
They would have been very professional aviators.
In addition,the crews that brought B17s back to their bases in England during WW2, would have been, in most cases, badly wounded with dead comrades on board too.
This of course, does not make this accident any less tragic.
What a Tragedy, I can't hardly believe it . Back during the War many B17s returned to Base after being shot Up very badly, with less than 4 engine's. I almost rode in the nine O Nine twice on the West Coast. Our Condolences!
They arrived from higher altitudes. This plane was moving slow and flying at low altitude. Less time and space to figure things out.
How sad.
wow, sounds like they should of made it????
Yeah, the pilot didn't sound panicked or anything.
I did notice though that he reported trouble with engine #4. Eye witnesses on the ground said that the #3 engine failed on take-off as well. If that's true, that'd mean he lost both engines on the right, which would cause the aircraft to yaw hard to that side and stall. That was almost always a fatal stall with B-17's during World War II.
I was at Groton, CT 9/09 to photograph "Nine o Nine" and Witchcraft, Rest in Peace to all....
Supposedly the plane had a problem with one engine,, how that caused a 4 engine aircraft to crash, is yet to be determined. Rest in peace men.
A b17 is a 70+ year old plane and and could barely run on 3 engines. Today we have smaller fighter jets with one engine stronger then all 4 of these engines by a ton. And from other reports now it seems both engines 3 and 4 were failing which would have made the aircraft lose control. Rest in peace though
dean woolston that’s the mystery
From what i have read, the turbochargers on these aircraft are disabled for safety reasons. They tended to explode when they failed and send shrapnel through the fuselage.The wastegates are removed to disable them. That means if you lose one engine you need the others to run at full power to stay in the air. If they lost 2 engines it was fatal.
@@americanpatriot3638 Turbos usually only kick in at about 15,000 ft !!!! The engines have their own built in mechanical supercharger that is fed by the turbocharger over 15,000 ft !!! Most of those old warbirds do not fly that high as they are unpressurized and stay below 10,000. B17's and B24's both had this type 2 stage supercharging systems !!!! At that low altitude the engine made full power with just the mechanical supercharger !!!
Tell ya what - If I were in one of those war birds - I'd feel totally comfortable with the level of training and skill this crew had!! There is lots of debate here on whether or not to declare emergency. With training, losing an engine is usually not critical; but it is demanding. With a declaration, he could have requested leaving the pattern and circled RIGHT; favoring the natural yaw from the power differential and providing more options. The Collins Foundation family should be in thoughts also! They are seriously grieving.
What is it with American pilots not declaring Maydays?
Very sad!!
Information out now is the wrong fuel was put in the plane giving number 4 engine problems first and then two more shutting down on final causing the crash. If that's what happened then that's a real shame. My son who's a commercial pilot did his normal preflight check on his plane and spotted an abnormal fuel spill under his wing and saw it was jetfuel that had mistakenly been put in his 206. The fuel barrels were mislabeled. A potential tragedy averted by a young diligent pilot.
How can the fueling personnel at the airport make a mistake like that? That is as blatant as a pilot making CFIT.
Very basic that recips use gasoline and not jet fuel / kerosene.
NTSB said that they recovered some fuel from the tanks and that it was the right grade of fuel.
Crash was they think in part to the plane touching down short of runway threshold hitting some antennas and then vering off to the right hitting the de-icing facility
I thought the b17 could fly on three engines. I wonder why they touched down a 1000 feet short?
Unfortunately, the landing gear clipped the ILS, instrument landing system, upon landing . That caused the crash.
That really is so, so tragic. So nearly safe and that happens. Life can be so unfair.
Any way to confirm this? Who told you that? Seems plausible the pilot was distracted with the engine 4 issue and made a simple mistake by clipping the ILS system.
It's been reported in several places that the plane clipped at least one NAVAID before landing. She came in right wing low, clipped the equipment, then veered to the right before hitting the deicing station. I've read that deicing solution can be flammable, which would explain the near complete destruction of the aircraft.
I took my son on Nine-O-Nine a few years ago. As WWII buffs, it was one of the most amazing experiences of our lives. The pilot, "Mac" McCauley, was a friendly person that loved to talk about his aircraft. He was also a consummate professional, as came through in the radio transmissions. My guess is he never doubted for a second his ability to bring her home. May he, and all the victims of this tragic event, RIP. I suspect they were fulfilling a life long dream when their lives were horribly cut short.
The plane was reported to land well short of the runway, if that helps.
So what was wrong with the plane? What caused the malfunction?
RIP
What a way to die.
ATC could of been a bit more understanding, not so worried about JET traffic, I understand that it is a busy hub, let the guys fly the plane,
cavsh00ter ATC was unclear of how back the situation was because 3012 did not declare an emergency
Not a pro, but I totally agree, you clearly hear the word "engine".
cavsh00ter like I said earlier Crew reluctant to declare an emergency. Leaves ATC uncertain.
cavsh00ter pilot hubris, confidence and constant ATC pressure
It only took a matter of seconds for ATC to determine whether the B-17 needed to land immediately, and then send the jet traffic back to a holding altitude.
Did we have two B17s go down this week?
Did the pilot have any Flight Simulator Training on 3 engine landings ? Something seems amiss. No disrespect, but unless more problems occurred on approach, they should have been able to land safely.
forrest gump V , Pilot was the highest time B 17 pilot in the country. He was 75 yrs old, sounded a lot younger, maybe his copilot was on the radio
@@MarkSmith-js2pu I have been a manual and CNC machinist more than 40 years, worked in 17 different shops, setup and programmed 50 different cnc mills. And there is still so much to learn, nobody knows it all..
All I was asking is, did this pilot have any simulator training flying on 3 engines.
@@forrestgumpv9049 A lightly loaded Fortress would manage it easily on 3 engines. Only issue would be a turn on single engined side.Lots of B-24s went down like that due to power asymetry. As some one said above if true it hit ground equipment (|LS) causing the accident. FAA will sort no point speculating. A very sad loss. Looks total so on less but all those lives lost cannot be brought back. There are still other B-17's.
Unfortunately the conveyor belt of time will slowly ground these icons. That and the shortage of parts.
@@forrestgumpv9049 yes
@@1racemate Thanks, I didn't know if a Simulator was set up for the B17.
Restore all WW2 planes now