I'm in this video - cleaning the bottom of the wing. My good friend is the co-pilot for this leg of the tour and invited me to work on her. Glad I did. The pilot Mac and Mitch the crew chief are working on replacing the oil cooler on engine #2. It was not broken but was getting older and they had the new spare so felt it was time to swap it out. The thermal valve inside them gets clogged and will make the engine run hot. They maintained this bird impeccably. This engine was not the problem engine in the crash - that was on the other wing. RIP Passengers, 909, Mac and Mike. God speed the recovery for Mitch. Super nice guy.
I heard the Pilot and Co Pilot were killed in the accident. Did the Flight Engineer survive and what kid of condition is he in? Was he able to describe the details that led to the crash?
one of my coworkers remembered when it crashed in Beaver Co PA in 1987 it was repaired and was flying successfully just have to think about the families impacted by the accident. as i see the collings Foundation has another B-17 they got back in 2015. but 909 was one of few with a functioning Sperry Ball Turret possibly the Norden Bombsight mainly used for BomberCamp
@@sanfranciscobay Hi, I don't know yet. I will ask my co-pilot friend who is in touch with the foundation crew. He roomed with Mitch for a week and got to know him well. I met him for a few hours. Will update. Thanks. Sam
I’m a retired corporate pilot with nearly 50 years of flying under my belt as well as being a Airframe and Power-plant mechanic for over 40 years so I have somewhat of an idea what’s happening here. Nothing but normal maintenance !!!!! This is an old plane with good ole round engines, and they Both need work from time to time, normal. Heck, I flew a brand new Grumman Gulfstream and that too needed work from time to time. So what you see here is nothing out of the ordinary. REST IN PEACE the people who perished in this unfortunate crash. It is a good video just the same.
As a mechanic myself i find it funny how people freak out when they see an engine being worked on, but then after the crash question if the airplane was maintained! Thats what they're doing in this video... maintaining it!!!! Most of these warbirds are in better condition than the airlines you fly on. Age of an airframe does not dictate whether or not it's air worthy. Its just plain ignorance.
these aircraft are non-pressurized so maintained properly these aircraft have virtually unlimited airframe life...... a pressurized jet airliner on the other hand, does have a limited airframe life.
I heard it was to #4 engine too. I flew on this B-17 6 years ago. There were 3 rules during flight: 1. Don't lean on the side door during flight (it's 70 years old) 2. Don't grab the overhead cables (during flight) 3. Don't talk to the pilot during Flight! RIP "Mac" McCaulley (pilot). I know you tried to make it back to the runway.
@@baddogma Yup. #3 was experiencing extreme detonation during takeoff and was tearing itself apart during the entire flight. A pre-take off run up would have discovered this. Mac assumed it was #4 and feathered #4 without checking with anyone else. There was a possibility of making the runway, but when Mac lowered the landing gear early on downwind, their fate was sealed. The B-17 needed 190 mph to maintain control and hold altitude with #3 & #4 out, but when Mac lowered the gear the drag increased dramatically and the airspeed dropped to 98 mph. When the aircraft touched down short of the runway, Mac pushed the throttles of #1 & #2 engines to full power causing the aircraft to veer hard right. Mac lost control but kept the throttles at full power until the B-17 collided with the tanks.
@@historybuff9276 The engines are numbered 1,2,3,4 from left to right while sitting in the cockpit. Some people here are posting nautical terms to describe which engine they are talking about. The B-17 was an Army Air Corp aircraft and they always said "left" and "right", not port & starboard.
I am very surprised that there was very little security for people looking around in the plane. A careless hand or foot placement could damage a wire or change a setting. Thank you for this GREAT high quality video showing this wonderful bird, that survived the war. So sorry for the unfortunate accident that took her, the crew and so many passengers!!!
This was a great video. It's eerie to have such a good recording of what would be pretty much gone in only a month. Condolences to the family and friends of the deceased.
I flew in the FuddyDuddy a few years back. It was the thrill of a lifetime. Many of the passengers were actual crew of B17s during the war. I had goose bumps the entire flight. Hopefully there will be some insights gained and lessons learned from this terrible crash.
Such a tragic loss of life and a beautiful aircraft............she finally died. Very poor maintenance of the magnetos in both 3 and 4 from what I remember of the report. Used to visit the the mechanics hanger at Duxford UK. absolutely fastidious levels of care goes into maintenance of these old war birds sadly not the case here, I wonder how this was overlooked. RIP to those that passed
I had the honor to see , up close a sister B 17 last summer. If you have never seen a vintage WWII airplane ,do it if you can . My deep appreciation for the men who were responsible for keeping these planes in the air ,and the flight crews is tremendous. Ounce you see the planes up close ,and see how many of the crew had to endure long flights in small tight spaces ,and being in below zero temps,all while being shot at ,is just unbelievable. The word HERO is today used too often however ,no word I can think of ,captures the greatness of the men of WWII.
for God's sake! Can we please stop flying these planes are the few that are left!? I know this will piss a lot of people off but we continue to lose the handful of these flying history monuments and they can't be replaced much less the souls that are sent to their judgment in these old crates. I've been hounding the FAA for years to put a stop to allowing these planes to even fly. We need them for future generations to be able to see.
The fact that they are working on this has nothing to do with the age of the plane, or the possibility that they are trying to hide something. Anyone who has even the slightest knowledge of older aircraft realize that radial engines have a lot of power and create a lot of torque. add to this the constant vibration and turbulence they encounter, you will encounter some leaks and such. radial engines require a lot of maintenance from the day they are put into action. they always have and always will.
The NTSB report has been published on the crash landing and subsequent collision with the fixed object off the runway and resultant fire. Such an accident does not bode well for the 'living history/memorial' flight program unless new stringent rules on maintenance of these aircraft and safety features and procedures are in place for the paying public taking these flights.
I flew on 909 with Mac many times thru the years. God bless Mac, Mike and the souls that perished. Praying for Mitch and all those injured and everyone at Collings.
Agreed not the time to speculate. Footnote: The pilot reported before the accident was having trouble with his #4 engine. The engine being worked on in this video would be the #2.
Why shouldn't he observe what's going on and guess about it? That's half the fun of going to look at these things you try to figure out what's going on. He never claimed to know and in fact he said that he didn't know. He never speculated that anything in this video had anything to do with the plane crashing. He also never indicated that they were working on that engine that reportedly had trouble so why do you and others keep pointing out that it's number two engine in this video and not number four?
Cylinder replacement on a radial engine aircraft of that vintage is pretty routine, plus they're working on No 2 and the pilot reported having problems with No 4
My dad flew B-17's,the F and G. They could take so much abuse. Between the flak, fighters, and long missions, this aircraft was reliable, no worries from the crew, in the air or ground.It always made it home,with 2 engines out, half of the tail shot off, huge holes in the fuselage etc. So something major was happening for it to go down. God speed to the families.
I was involved with the operation of an Antonov AN-2 that has the Russian version of that engine. One thing that people don't understand is that these radial engines don't have an oil sump and that causes the oil to run into the bottom one or two cylinders. That means that these engines always leak oil out and also blow oil out the exhausts. You are always busy wiping the oil off the aeroplane. From time to time you have small issues like HT Leads (Sparkplug) Leads or sparkplugs failing. That is no problem because each of the 9 cylinders has 2 sparkplugs being run off two separate magnetos. The changes in complete engine failure are low. Also when you start the engine the engine will blow lots of smoke and the will backfire and sound rough until the oil in the cylinders is burned out. This is 100% normal. This is just the nature of the beast.
Those AN 2’s were scary looking airplanes. Most of the early Russian stuff was especially the helicopters. I saw many the numerous times I flew all over Russia.
@@stevez6499 The AN-2 was designed in 1946 but this one was only built in 1982 100% the same as the original once. But you would be surprised to see how clever the design was and although it looks rugged it is really a fantastic aircraft. They thought of everything when they designed it.
This plane could fly on three engines, no problem. I think them not being able to gain altitude, after take off, may indicate some problem with other engines too. There seems to be more involved here than one faulty engine or a one engine out situation.
3 engines? It can fly on 2 engines, half of the horizontal stab missing, half of the vertical stab missing and shot full of holes. These planes were over engineered to be able to fly with half the plane blown off. 1 engine out is no issue for a B-17
But, if you loose 2 engines on the same side, or have lost one, and the second starts to go while low and slow, there are not many, if any, that could handle that airplane on 2 engines especially if the 2 good engines are on the same side. We are starting to learn more and more! RIP!!!!
@@scotabot7826 I don't know the scenario that they were in. That's why I'm not commenting on the videol, I'm just pointing out how forgiving those planes are. Under normal circumstances, it shouldn't have crashed with 1 engine out. Idk the conditions at the airport that day, head winds or not, how heavy he was, engine trouble on take off? His,airspeed when the issue occured? Idk.
@@521CID The engines don't produce as much power as they did in wartime. The high octane fuels are not available today. 3 engines OK but 2 engines? There is a video of an Avro Shackleton flying on one engine at an airshow. No doubt the Rolls Royce Griffon was on full power, but not for long I am sure.
Aircraft are very complex. A very experienced pilot and co-pilot were flying the aircraft the day it crashed. I'm from CT and familiar with the area, also a former aircraft mechanic in the Air Force. It was a very unfortunate incident. Many amazing people stepped up to help out and rescue those on board and on the ground. The authorities will at some point issue a full report of their findings.
Excellent video John. My son and I saw 909 in Omaha, NE about 2 & 1/2 months before it crashed. It's sadly ironic that the original 909 had the record for 140 missions in 1945 without the loss of any crew; only to have 7 people die in the final flight of it's name sake. And what's even more ironic is that the reason that The Colling's Foundation didn't have an overseer from the FAA on hand to inspect their planes waa because the agent that use to be there had died in a crash of a 2 seater plane that had recently had a fracture in it's wooden propeller "repaired"; only to have the prop break off in flight. IF the FAA agent hadn't died, he would have been there to make sure the 909 was airworthy and those people might not have died. Of course, the FAA crash report said that it was because the pilot (1) was doing all of the maintenance himself and he had used a garden hose to "fix" a problem with one of the engines (which I believe was the engine he was working on in the video). About 2 minutes after they had taken off from the Conneticut airport; the pilot was requesting clearance to return. The tower asked him if he wanted to declare an emergency landing but the pilot said "no"... He could have landed right away but I guarantee that he didn't want there to be an investigation into the landing. My condolences to the family and friends of the people who died and healing and peace to the survivors.
5 things comes to mind from this very tragic event. 1). Some of the most senior B17 Aircrew & mechanics worked on & flew this amazing survivor aircraft, the best of the best! 2). No matter how proficient the humans, there is no getting around 80+ year old engine technology, subject to a myriad of its inherent shortcomings & failures, it is not state of art, it was back then, but is long since obsolete. 3). The destruction of vintage aircraft particularly when humans are killed shines a VERY negative light on the vintage aircraft community. 4). As Humans & irreplaceable aircraft continue to be lost forever, when are we going to decide enough is enough. 5). I LOVE vintage aircraft & I want my children & grandchildren to see & enjoy them as well, there must be a better way to preserve them for future generations to enjoy......
My brother-in-law Robert Riddell . Was killed in the crash. The flight was delayed by 45 minutes because of a moisture issue on the number 4 engine. My sister recorded the crew chief Was blowing out the magnetos due to moisture.. I feel it was a combination of issues both mechanical and pilot related that resulted in the crash. What many of my friends in the aviation community want to know is why on earth after #4 failed did the pilot maken2 right hand turns to get back to runway 6. This action put the wing with less power pointing to the ground resulting in the loss of altitude, on final approach he was maybe 20 feet above the trees before crossing over route 20. Also the fact remains that these seasoned pilots, (god rest their souls) are not held to the same rigorous training standards as military and commercial pilots are. They spend hundreds of hours in flight simulators practicing for emergency situations. Vintage aviator pilots do not. So regardless of how many years experience they may have, it still doesn't prepare them for real world emergency situations. So in fact they are handing an emergency for the very first time with zero hours of sim training. there is more but that will have to wait until the investigation is completed ..
I'm very sorry for your loss - it must be unimaginable. You raise excellent points about the preparedness of pilots for emergencies and the importance of regular, rigorous training for them. 10,000 hours on type means little if it's all been incident free. What's emerging now about poor airmanship and cockpit resource management, the appalling condition of critical ignition components and all around ineffective oversight within and of Collings operations is incredibly shocking and most unexpected considering their passion for preserving these aircraft.
Normal maintenance on #2 engine, but #4 failed on take off the day of the incident. Shows that even though the aircraft was well maintained, things happen....
@@VOOODOOO37 Speculation is they feathered the wrong engine witness reports on the ground before take off say #3 engine was the problem so 2 engines out turning into the dead side predictable result short landing and loss of control skid marks across the tarmac to impact they knew they were gonna hit...
@@danielleclare2938 that wouldn't surprise me those senior citizen Pilots unfortunately probably couldn't react fast enough after they made the mistake. You imagine feathering a running engine? After watching videos of this airplane I would definitely not fly in it. It looked like something that should have been a static display years ago. It's my favorite airplane but at some point it's going to become time to park these. This is not like the B-52 that the Air Force can afford to maintain in top condition.
@@VOOODOOO37 Yes... the age of the pilot (75 years old) is rather disconcerting. I'm not saying that anything was his fault, but I do believe they should consider imposing an age limit...when there are paying passengers onboard. May they all RIP. Oh yes, I also believe that they should have STATIC displays/tours of these planes...before they are all gone.
They working on #2 engine. We always work on the engines, all the time... Sick of the speculations of those who dont have a clue who never worked on them... Especially those who dont who what engines are what!!!
I nothing but the ultimate respect for the crew of this plane. They were pilots and crewbut were also teachers of history. God bless evertone that was in that mis fortunate crash.
Would it be reasonable to expect that a B-17 aircraft on takeoff with full power on only engine #1 and engine #2 and negligible power on engine #3 and engine # 4? Not a chance The aircraft achieved an altitude a bit Below that needed for survival., and at a miserable airspeed barely adequate. Pilot Mr. "Mac" packed it in for all. !!!!!.
This video demonstrates precisely what was wrong with the foundational structure where the pilot was also the mechanic, his single mindedness ended up killing himself and nine others and destroyed a beautiful airplane
I took a flight on the 909 back in the mid 1990s. here in Salem Oregon . got some great inflight photos. I also flew on the B25 here in Salem on June 15, 2019. got some great inflight videos. the 909 was parked next to the B25. less than four months before the crash.
John B - thanks for posting this video. It is a great record for those of us that never saw the inside of her. I have a photo of her over Lake Lewisville (Texas) from about 10 years ago. I am sad now that I have not taken the time to visit the Collings Foundation stops at Love Field in Dallas. As a retired mech, there is no concern with ramp maintenance, even a complete engine change. I am eagerly (and patiently?) awaiting the NTSB reports so see what really happened (assuming it can be determined). I have my guesses as to what happened, but no one now has the info needed to form an accurate hypotheses. In the meantime, may the souls of the departed rest in peace and the wounds of the survivors heal with expediency. I'd fly any of 909's sister aircraft today without concern. Blue Skies and Tailwinds. From Texas.
Although interesting. They are work on engine number 2. They radioed that they had a problem with engine 4. That's the one on the fare left. The engines on a B-17 are numbered from sitting in the pilots seat from left to right engine's 1,2,3,4.
@@leoferreyra8606 looking at the B-17 facing it you would be seeing left to right -> engine's 4,3,2,1. From sitting in the pilot in command left seat looking out the nose. From your left to right -> the engine's are 1,2,3,4. This should help you understand the B-17G systems and engine layout better. www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=jasonblair.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/Pilots-Manual-for-Boeing-B-17-Flying-Fortress.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjXhI_B-5_lAhUIeawKHSFVAdgQFjAAegQIARAB&usg=AOvVaw0SjcssYrqIBPvf93TTg5BS
Liam Foster Speculation as to the actual cause. Fact finding will end speculation. In aviation there are many variables and sometimes the slightest miscalculation can bite you. I know, I’ve been there. Stay safe.
At the end of the day, is it reasonable to grant exemptions to organizations to carry revenue passagers on antiquated machines? I am quite certain many if not most of these passengers have faith in the organization and the old pilots and have no idea that the risk level is significantly higher for reasons obvious to a professional with a more neutral perspective. If customers are made aware of the situation beforehand, it's another debate. If they are not in any way conscious of the fact that flying an antiquated piston aircraft in the hands of an semi-amateur organization has safety implications, then it's an issue. The NTSB report clearly shows that this was an organisational accident, meaning that it was not an isolated, catastrophic and unpreventable mechanical failure that caused the accident, nor was it solely caused by one individual.
You said it yourself. “Organisational accident”. That means this B-17 would still be flying today if it wasn’t for failures in the company. Can’t blame the machine on that. I’m British and I’m a big fan of old warbirds so I’ll admit I’d be sad to not see them flying. A B-17 to an American is what an Avro Lancaster or Spitfire is to a Brit. If they get proper maintenance with no expense spared then they can fly for many more years. They were built to survive years of hardship. I do know that our warbirds receive more love and attention than passenger jets over here. The RAF still own, fly and maintain a Lancaster I believe. They use it for special occasions, flyovers etc. Maybe more transparency is needed from companies that sell seats for them. Besides, any aircraft can be brought down with questionable maintenance and/or company errors, and they have. Old or new.
It is important to note that this is standard MAINTENANCE of a complex aircraft. It is specifically undertaken to prevent inflight emergencies where repairs or adjustments are impossible. It should be further noted that this is the #2 engine (numbered from left to right [starboard to port] from the pilots seat). The inflight problem that developed on October 2, 2019 was the #4 engine, which was shut down and feathered after take-off. Also the #3 engine began to indicate problems while the aircraft was returning to make its landing. The engine pictured in this video was not a factor in the crash of the aircraft.
It is amazing that they let you get so close to the aircraft. That bird was old, but sure looks to be in fine condition. It was never flown in combat, but it sure had a dramatic ending.
I saw the crew do a cylinder replacement on the same engine when Nine-O-Nine visited San Luis Obispo in May 2015. It was an upper cylinder, and Collings canceled all remaining public flights during that visit in SLO.
Hey John, I was at the Worcester airshow and also saw the mechanic working on engine no 3 while at the airshow with my son. They had an oil leak that was dripping onto the airport surface abs when I asked about it, the mechanic said it been happening a lot lately. I knew it when it crashed and I reported it to the NTSB about it. But after watching your video, it proves that they indeed had a problem with No 3. Also I noticed engine 4 had also a small leak, but no 3 was leaking a lot in the engine cover
it was #4 said it sputtered but i think before the flight they had trouble getting it started before the flight as not sure if they did or not did an engine runup prior to the flight. as one article said i red they were trying to raise $75,000 for a new overhauled R-1820-97 engine. According to Wikipedia the Collings Foundation has another B-17 they purchased from Evergreen in 2015.
Watch Plane Savers episodes about Buffalo Airways. These old radial engines constantly need service. The safety factor that normally keeps these old birds flying is multiple engines mean the ones still running get the plane back to the airport. What happened to 909? we should know soon. Still is it so tragic that people lost their lives for a ride in a historic warbird.
Tragic this event. Nobody wins here:-( Flying an old A/C like this is a high risk adventure due it's age & the fact that the design at the time was adequate as a bomber in the 2nd WW with a very low expected lifespan. RIP to those that where in the wrong place at the wrong time:-(
That number four engine that you were looking at is the one that caused this thing to crash. He radioed in that they needed to come back and blow out number four before they resumed the ride. Apparently the plane touchdown 1000 feet before the runway and struck some kind of antenna which caused it to veer sharply to the right and directly into the deicing farm. The pilot was 75 years old, he was the gentleman with the silver hair . he was known to be the most knowledgeable and experienced pilot of this aircraft in the world.
I flew on this plane many years ago and never questioned it being maintained properly. The Collings Foundation is a family of people who would not risk anyone's safety by cutting corners. These engines require CONSTANT maintenance due to their very nature. Pretty much every time they visited Mtn. View, something was being worked on. That shows they are on top of things.
The NTSB report makes it quite clear that this was not the case at all. Collings Foundation's maintainers were not maintaining this aircraft consistently and correctly by the book. Otherwise the faults that led to its crash would not have existed.
it was in Butler PA for the Wings of Freedom tour so far no issues with 909 prior to the accident it said one aritcle the Collings Foundation is trying to raise $75,000 for a new overhauled Wright R-1820-97 As i red they have another B-17 but who knows if that will fly if pending for the 2020 wings of freedom tour and Bomber Camp as 909 was one of several b-17s with a functioning Sperry ball turret.
I flew on Nine-O-Nine four times. After my first ride, I learned to board the plane first and sit in the two areas by the top turret, behind the pilot and co-pilot. That way you can hurry over to the front and have the navigator and bombardier area all to yourself for ten minutes before other folks head to the front. I took so many photos and, had the area all to myself! Sadly, the folks who sat in the area I sat in during my other flights did not survive the crash.
Thanks for sharing. What a tragic loss of life and a fine aircraft. Aviation is and has been, like all things in life, a dangerous business at times. However aviation is now still safer than driving your car to the store. Best Wishes & Blessings to all effected by this tragedy. Keith Noneya
It’s ops normal for the engines to be routinely and randomly worked on on these old birds especially the radials - this is very close to being the kind of uninformed media tripe that is so prevalent following a tragic crash like that of 909
the right 2 engines, 3 and 4(right wing) are in question according to NTSB prelim...not 1 and 2(left wing) where these guys are working. Prelim hints at magnetos may have been damp/wet in 4. It will be a while yet before anything is for sure. Prayers for the families affected by this accident
The recent reports are that the “maintenance” they were doing before the crash was spraying nitrogen around the magnetos to try and dry out some condensation.
Go to any airport please, and look under the engines of every warbird you see. If it doesn't have oil under it, please tell the pilots their plane is out of oil.
Alot of what you see at air shows is preventive maintenance, which is a military term for fixing a problem before it becomes an issue. This requires constant inspection and maintenance to keep these aircraft flying and in good condition, you can't just pull into auto Zone and get parts you have to plan ahead every repair and overhaul,
The engines which failed were numbers 3 and 4 on the starboard side. Number 2 engine which they are working on did not fail. Collins had their license suspended in May. Some of the people in this footage are not with us today, I suspect. Sad. RIP.
Less they one month before the fatal crash,they were at the NAS Wildwood fly in... I watched them land and park, they seemed to have an interest in the same engine. I sat in my car and watched and listened to that engine. Several times they climbed up on the wing opened a door on the engine and did something to the motor. They would climb down and start the engine and it didn’t start right up,but when it did is sputtered and blew out really blame smoke. This happened a few times,it just never sounded smooth. But they flew it on several trips with people to n it. I was going to take a trip, but after that I decided maybe next year. This is such a shame,and really a weird feeling I could have been in that aircraft.
Engine #4 failed. It had 850 hours on it. The other 3 engines were all 0 time engines (meaning that they had 0 hours of flight time since major overhaul on them) at the time of the crash. The engines you see under maintenance here were either overhauled or not the engines on the aircraft at the time of the accident (likely the latter). This video is pointless, but I certainly do appreciate a beautiful plane one last time. Thank you for posting :)
this aircraft was in suburb condition exceptionally maintained. this was a freak accident. i hope they can find the cause to prevent it in the future, but this airplane was no flying scrap heap. by any means.
This old girl was in fantastic shape for her age but it was maintained meticulously by the crew. Money was never a determining factor here. Radials leak and are constantly maintained from day one. All these engines had was 368 hours since overhaul. Ntsb will have answers. It will take time. I see nothing in this video of any value to inspectors. Especially the ill informed commentary . sorry. Rip 909
@@ad356 how do you know its condition prior to the accident? Did you read the most recent NTSB Report? Extremely sad situation all around but not quite sure what your getting at.
Mags were well understood back in the day, before even my time. It looks like they were the same essentially as automobile point, condenser systems which very maintenance dependent. Hardly surprising they got neglected with eight systems aloft makeshift height access ladders. That's 72 cam positions to maintain in the field, what are the chances? Are retrofit CDI systems approved and readily available for aero systems? The post accident comments re. damp HT are ironically naive. Thankfully the NTSB are there to cut through naive optimism. Sad for those that put their faith in tried and tested puff of nitrogen, how many before them?
Aircraft engines require inspection and maintenance often as the stakes are pretty high, I really don't see anything sinister about them scrutinizing an engine, this like other rare vintage aircraft 909 is checked often, minor oil leaks are attended to and issues that may be ok to wait until the next maintenance cycle are taken care of. One theory is that the magnetos may have had moisture affecting the performance until the moisture is removed or evaporates with engine heat. The curious thing about 909 (very preliminary report) is that the condition of the engines suggest that № 3 prop may have been feathered, too early to tell what happened but she was too low, clipped some approach lights and turned right, so sad to lose one of just a few.
The pilot on the day of the crash was the gray haired man on the ladder at the start of your vid. How do I know? My name was right under the co-pilot window for some 20 years. I’m flown with the nine O nine so many times.
The engine they were working on was fine. It was engine 3 & 4 that were chonked. 3 had 1 mag grounded & the other mag with only a few points firing. #4 had advanced timing & issues with pre detonation damage & corrosion.
Replacing the oil cooler on the number 2 engine and the jug is not the piston but the cylinder itself. The problem engine was the #4 engine the day of the accident.
Scotabot; It seems the pilots were already struggling to maintain airspeed, if the flap position for landing(FAA report) was set at zero degrees. Power loss was the problem here, why is still unknown. It appears both #3&4 engines failed and at the worst possible time, when the aircraft was low and slow. At this point even if the proper corrective measures had been attempted, it may have been to late.
On those types of radial engines they have two magnetos per engine and if the moisture is high or if they get wet they won’t fire. And with will run very rough if they have a high moisture content, they were seen morning of the accident trying to blow the magnetos off to get the moisture out of them, so everyone that does not do their research on the aircraft the engines and anything like that before they start making stupid assumptions really needs to before they speak, thanks you just keep going you keyboard warriors lol
Just curious have you provide a copy of this video to the FAA Investors handling the case? Maybe they would see something in the video to help the investigation even though it was taken a month earlier. Anything can help. God bless the loss of life so sad.
I saw the Memphis Belle on Mud Island in Memphis in the 1990s. She was in terrible shape at that time. Local hoodlums had stolen parts and written graffiti on her. I am so glad she is restored today. What she looked like then was a total disgrace!
I'm in this video - cleaning the bottom of the wing. My good friend is the co-pilot for this leg of the tour and invited me to work on her. Glad I did. The pilot Mac and Mitch the crew chief are working on replacing the oil cooler on engine #2. It was not broken but was getting older and they had the new spare so felt it was time to swap it out. The thermal valve inside them gets clogged and will make the engine run hot. They maintained this bird impeccably. This engine was not the problem engine in the crash - that was on the other wing. RIP Passengers, 909, Mac and Mike. God speed the recovery for Mitch. Super nice guy.
Thank you , my condolences to the families and to those of the Collings Foundation .
I heard the Pilot and Co Pilot were killed in the accident. Did the Flight Engineer survive and what kid of condition is he in? Was he able to describe the details that led to the crash?
one of my coworkers remembered when it crashed in Beaver Co PA in 1987 it was repaired and was flying successfully just have to think about the families impacted by the accident. as i see the collings Foundation has another B-17 they got back in 2015. but 909 was one of few with a functioning Sperry Ball Turret possibly the Norden Bombsight mainly used for BomberCamp
SanFranciscoBay Mitch has been released from the hospital, multiple broken ribs and burns - there’s a fundraiser on FB for him.
@@sanfranciscobay Hi, I don't know yet. I will ask my co-pilot friend who is in touch with the foundation crew. He roomed with Mitch for a week and got to know him well. I met him for a few hours. Will update. Thanks. Sam
I’m a retired corporate pilot with nearly 50 years of flying under my belt as well as being a Airframe and Power-plant mechanic for over 40 years so I have somewhat of an idea what’s happening here. Nothing but normal maintenance !!!!!
This is an old plane with good ole round engines, and they Both need work from time to time, normal. Heck, I flew a brand new Grumman Gulfstream and that too needed work from time to time.
So what you see here is nothing out of the ordinary.
REST IN PEACE the people who perished in this unfortunate crash.
It is a good video just the same.
As a mechanic myself i find it funny how people freak out when they see an engine being worked on, but then after the crash question if the airplane was maintained! Thats what they're doing in this video... maintaining it!!!! Most of these warbirds are in better condition than the airlines you fly on. Age of an airframe does not dictate whether or not it's air worthy. Its just plain ignorance.
these aircraft are non-pressurized so maintained properly these aircraft have virtually unlimited airframe life...... a pressurized jet airliner on the other hand, does have a limited airframe life.
One word........Tools.....
That's the truth. Shit happens. Brand new aircraft have crashed it's just the way it is.
chevelle5051 That’s No2 engine, the crash involved no 4 and possibly 3 engine.
Exactly!
This #2 engine , the port inboard engine . 9 0 9 was reported having an issue with the #4 engine ,starboard outer engine .
I heard it was to #4 engine too. I flew on this B-17 6 years ago. There were 3 rules during flight: 1. Don't lean on the side door during flight (it's 70 years old) 2. Don't grab the overhead cables (during flight) 3. Don't talk to the pilot during Flight! RIP "Mac" McCaulley (pilot). I know you tried to make it back to the runway.
They had problems with #4 and when they lost power they assumed it was #4 and feathered it, when it was actually #3.
@@baddogma Yup. #3 was experiencing extreme detonation during takeoff and was tearing itself apart during the entire flight. A pre-take off run up would have discovered this. Mac assumed it was #4 and feathered #4 without checking with anyone else. There was a possibility of making the runway, but when Mac lowered the landing gear early on downwind, their fate was sealed. The B-17 needed 190 mph to maintain control and hold altitude with #3 & #4 out, but when Mac lowered the gear the drag increased dramatically and the airspeed dropped to 98 mph. When the aircraft touched down short of the runway, Mac pushed the throttles of #1 & #2 engines to full power causing the aircraft to veer hard right. Mac lost control but kept the throttles at full power until the B-17 collided with the tanks.
@@historybuff9276 The engines are numbered 1,2,3,4 from left to right while sitting in the cockpit. Some people here are posting nautical terms to describe which engine they are talking about. The B-17 was an Army Air Corp aircraft and they always said "left" and "right", not port & starboard.
I am very surprised that there was very little security for people looking around in the plane. A careless hand or foot placement could damage a wire or change a setting. Thank you for this GREAT high quality video showing this wonderful bird, that survived the war. So sorry for the unfortunate accident that took her, the crew and so many passengers!!!
This was a great video. It's eerie to have such a good recording of what would be pretty much gone in only a month. Condolences to the family and friends of the deceased.
Thanks...share with everyone!
I flew in the FuddyDuddy a few years back. It was the thrill of a lifetime. Many of the passengers were actual crew of B17s during the war. I had goose bumps the entire flight. Hopefully there will be some insights gained and lessons learned from this terrible crash.
Such a tragic loss of life and a beautiful aircraft............she finally died. Very poor maintenance of the magnetos in both 3 and 4 from what I remember of the report. Used to visit the the mechanics hanger at Duxford UK. absolutely fastidious levels of care goes into maintenance of these old war birds sadly not the case here, I wonder how this was overlooked. RIP to those that passed
I had the honor to see , up close a sister B 17 last summer. If you have never seen a vintage WWII airplane ,do it if you can . My deep appreciation for the men who were responsible for keeping these planes in the air ,and the flight crews is tremendous. Ounce you see the planes up close ,and see how many of the crew had to endure long flights in small tight spaces ,and being in below zero temps,all while being shot at ,is just unbelievable. The word HERO is today used too often however ,no word I can think of ,captures the greatness of the men of WWII.
for God's sake! Can we please stop flying these planes are the few that are left!? I know this will piss a lot of people off but we continue to lose the handful of these flying history monuments and they can't be replaced much less the souls that are sent to their judgment in these old crates. I've been hounding the FAA for years to put a stop to allowing these planes to even fly. We need them for future generations to be able to see.
The fact that they are working on this has nothing to do with the age of the plane, or the possibility that they are trying to hide something. Anyone who has even the slightest knowledge of older aircraft realize that radial engines have a lot of power and create a lot of torque. add to this the constant vibration and turbulence they encounter, you will encounter some leaks and such. radial engines require a lot of maintenance from the day they are put into action. they always have and always will.
The NTSB report has been published on the crash landing and subsequent collision with the fixed object off the runway and resultant fire. Such an accident does not bode well for the 'living history/memorial' flight program unless new stringent rules on maintenance of these aircraft and safety features and procedures are in place for the paying public taking these flights.
That old mechanic can't even remember where he put his bed slippers! Come on ..
I flew on 909 with Mac many times thru the years. God bless Mac, Mike and the souls that perished. Praying for Mitch and all those injured and everyone at Collings.
You have no idea what they were doing. Quit guessing.
Agreed not the time to speculate. Footnote: The pilot reported before the accident was having trouble with his #4 engine. The engine being worked on in this video would be the #2.
Why shouldn't he observe what's going on and guess about it? That's half the fun of going to look at these things you try to figure out what's going on. He never claimed to know and in fact he said that he didn't know.
He never speculated that anything in this video had anything to do with the plane crashing.
He also never indicated that they were working on that engine that reportedly had trouble so why do you and others keep pointing out that it's number two engine in this video and not number four?
souocara38able I’m glad this tragedy is providing you a good time.
The only time to worry about an oil leak on a radial is when it isn't!
Cylinder replacement on a radial engine aircraft of that vintage is pretty routine, plus they're working on No 2 and the pilot reported having problems with No 4
let the investigation run its course.Prayers for the fallen and their families.
My dad flew B-17's,the F and G. They could take so much abuse. Between the flak, fighters, and long missions, this aircraft was reliable, no worries from the crew, in the air or ground.It always made it home,with 2 engines out, half of the tail shot off, huge holes in the fuselage etc. So something major was happening for it to go down. God speed to the families.
I was involved with the operation of an Antonov AN-2 that has the Russian version of that engine. One thing that people don't understand is that these radial engines don't have an oil sump and that causes the oil to run into the bottom one or two cylinders. That means that these engines always leak oil out and also blow oil out the exhausts. You are always busy wiping the oil off the aeroplane. From time to time you have small issues like HT Leads (Sparkplug) Leads or sparkplugs failing. That is no problem because each of the 9 cylinders has 2 sparkplugs being run off two separate magnetos. The changes in complete engine failure are low. Also when you start the engine the engine will blow lots of smoke and the will backfire and sound rough until the oil in the cylinders is burned out. This is 100% normal. This is just the nature of the beast.
Thanks for this information!
Those AN 2’s were scary looking airplanes. Most of the early Russian stuff was especially the helicopters. I saw many the numerous times I flew all over Russia.
@@stevez6499 The AN-2 was designed in 1946 but this one was only built in 1982 100% the same as the original once. But you would be surprised to see how clever the design was and although it looks rugged it is really a fantastic aircraft. They thought of everything when they designed it.
This plane could fly on three engines, no problem. I think them not being able to gain altitude, after take off, may indicate some problem with other engines too. There seems to be more involved here than one faulty engine or a one engine out situation.
3 engines? It can fly on 2 engines, half of the horizontal stab missing, half of the vertical stab missing and shot full of holes. These planes were over engineered to be able to fly with half the plane blown off. 1 engine out is no issue for a B-17
But, if you loose 2 engines on the same side, or have lost one, and the second starts to go while low and slow, there are not many, if any, that could handle that airplane on 2 engines especially if the 2 good engines are on the same side. We are starting to learn more and more! RIP!!!!
@@scotabot7826 I don't know the scenario that they were in. That's why I'm not commenting on the videol, I'm just pointing out how forgiving those planes are. Under normal circumstances, it shouldn't have crashed with 1 engine out. Idk the conditions at the airport that day, head winds or not, how heavy he was, engine trouble on take off? His,airspeed when the issue occured? Idk.
@@521CID The engines don't produce as much power as they did in wartime. The high octane fuels are not available today. 3 engines OK but 2 engines? There is a video of an Avro Shackleton flying on one engine at an airshow. No doubt the Rolls Royce Griffon was on full power, but not for long I am sure.
Aircraft are very complex. A very experienced pilot and co-pilot were flying the aircraft the day it crashed. I'm from CT and familiar with the area, also a former aircraft mechanic in the Air Force. It was a very unfortunate incident. Many amazing people stepped up to help out and rescue those on board and on the ground. The authorities will at some point issue a full report of their findings.
Excellent video John. My son and I saw 909 in Omaha, NE about 2 & 1/2 months before it crashed. It's sadly ironic that the original 909 had the record for 140 missions in 1945 without the loss of any crew; only to have 7 people die in the final flight of it's name sake.
And what's even more ironic is that the reason that The Colling's Foundation didn't have an overseer from the FAA on hand to inspect their planes waa because the agent that use to be there had died in a crash of a 2 seater plane that had recently had a fracture in it's wooden propeller "repaired"; only to have the prop break off in flight.
IF the FAA agent hadn't died, he would have been there to make sure the 909 was airworthy and those people might not have died.
Of course, the FAA crash report said that it was because the pilot (1) was doing all of the maintenance himself and he had used a garden hose to "fix" a problem with one of the engines (which I believe was the engine he was working on in the video).
About 2 minutes after they had taken off from the Conneticut airport; the pilot was requesting clearance to return. The tower asked him if he wanted to declare an emergency landing but the pilot said "no"... He could have landed right away but I guarantee that he didn't want there to be an investigation into the landing.
My condolences to the family and friends of the people who died and healing and peace to the survivors.
When I hear “spare parts” I cringe. Yeah not putting my life in the hands of an 80 year old dude.
5 things comes to mind from this very tragic event. 1). Some of the most senior B17 Aircrew & mechanics worked on & flew this amazing survivor aircraft, the best of the best! 2). No matter how proficient the humans, there is no getting around 80+ year old engine technology, subject to a myriad of its inherent shortcomings & failures, it is not state of art, it was back then, but is long since obsolete. 3). The destruction of vintage aircraft particularly when humans are killed shines a VERY negative light on the vintage aircraft community. 4). As Humans & irreplaceable aircraft continue to be lost forever, when are we going to decide enough is enough. 5). I LOVE vintage aircraft & I want my children & grandchildren to see & enjoy them as well, there must be a better way to preserve them for future generations to enjoy......
My brother-in-law Robert Riddell . Was killed in the crash. The flight was delayed by 45 minutes because of a moisture issue on the number 4 engine. My sister recorded the crew chief Was blowing out the magnetos due to moisture.. I feel it was a combination of issues both mechanical and pilot related that resulted in the crash. What many of my friends in the aviation community want to know is why on earth after #4 failed did the pilot maken2 right hand turns to get back to runway 6. This action put the wing with less power pointing to the ground resulting in the loss of altitude, on final approach he was maybe 20 feet above the trees before crossing over route 20. Also the fact remains that these seasoned pilots, (god rest their souls) are not held to the same rigorous training standards as military and commercial pilots are. They spend hundreds of hours in flight simulators practicing for emergency situations. Vintage aviator pilots do not. So regardless of how many years experience they may have, it still doesn't prepare them for real world emergency situations. So in fact they are handing an emergency for the very first time with zero hours of sim training. there is more but that will have to wait until the investigation is completed ..
God bless ur family.....thank you for sharing that.
I'm very sorry for your loss - it must be unimaginable. You raise excellent points about the preparedness of pilots for emergencies and the importance of regular, rigorous training for them. 10,000 hours on type means little if it's all been incident free. What's emerging now about poor airmanship and cockpit resource management, the appalling condition of critical ignition components and all around ineffective oversight within and of Collings operations is incredibly shocking and most unexpected considering their passion for preserving these aircraft.
Normal maintenance on #2 engine, but #4 failed on take off the day of the incident. Shows that even though the aircraft was well maintained, things happen....
Why would one engine out cause a crash? These can keep flying usually
@@VOOODOOO37 Speculation is they feathered the wrong engine witness reports on the ground before take off say #3 engine was the problem so 2 engines out turning into the dead side predictable result short landing and loss of control skid marks across the tarmac to impact they knew they were gonna hit...
@@danielleclare2938 that wouldn't surprise me those senior citizen Pilots unfortunately probably couldn't react fast enough after they made the mistake. You imagine feathering a running engine? After watching videos of this airplane I would definitely not fly in it. It looked like something that should have been a static display years ago. It's my favorite airplane but at some point it's going to become time to park these. This is not like the B-52 that the Air Force can afford to maintain in top condition.
@@VOOODOOO37 Yes... the age of the pilot (75 years old) is rather disconcerting. I'm not saying that anything was his fault, but I do believe they should consider imposing an age limit...when there are paying passengers onboard. May they all RIP. Oh yes, I also believe that they should have STATIC displays/tours of these planes...before they are all gone.
They working on #2 engine. We always work on the engines, all the time... Sick of the speculations of those who dont have a clue who never worked on them... Especially those who dont who what engines are what!!!
I nothing but the ultimate respect for the crew of this plane. They were pilots and crewbut were also teachers of history. God bless evertone that was in that mis fortunate crash.
Would it be reasonable to expect that a B-17 aircraft on takeoff with full power on only engine #1 and engine #2 and negligible power on engine #3 and engine # 4? Not a chance The aircraft achieved an altitude a bit Below that needed for survival., and at a miserable airspeed barely adequate. Pilot Mr. "Mac" packed it in for all. !!!!!.
Could that be the issue; are these maintenance men bona-fide? It looks rather chaotic..!
This video demonstrates precisely what was wrong with the foundational structure where the pilot was also the mechanic, his single mindedness ended up killing himself and nine others and destroyed a beautiful airplane
They are just doing NORMAL maintenance that ANY radial requires! Nothing special!
I took a flight on the 909 back in the mid 1990s. here in Salem Oregon . got some great inflight photos. I also flew on the B25 here in Salem on June 15, 2019. got some great inflight videos. the 909 was parked next to the B25. less than four months before the crash.
It's a real drag that this beautiful bomber crashed...rip to the crew and passengers who lost their lives that day
Worn out points in the mags on 3 and 4, crashed this plane.
Thanks for the tour. Now I feel as if I have been inside a B17. Really awful about the crash and loss of life.
John B - thanks for posting this video. It is a great record for those of us that never saw the inside of her. I have a photo of her over Lake Lewisville (Texas) from about 10 years ago. I am sad now that I have not taken the time to visit the Collings Foundation stops at Love Field in Dallas. As a retired mech, there is no concern with ramp maintenance, even a complete engine change. I am eagerly (and patiently?) awaiting the NTSB reports so see what really happened (assuming it can be determined). I have my guesses as to what happened, but no one now has the info needed to form an accurate hypotheses. In the meantime, may the souls of the departed rest in peace and the wounds of the survivors heal with expediency. I'd fly any of 909's sister aircraft today without concern. Blue Skies and Tailwinds. From Texas.
Although interesting. They are work on engine number 2. They radioed that they had a problem with engine 4. That's the one on the fare left. The engines on a B-17 are numbered from sitting in the pilots seat from left to right engine's 1,2,3,4.
@@leoferreyra8606 looking at the B-17 facing it you would be seeing left to right -> engine's 4,3,2,1. From sitting in the pilot in command left seat looking out the nose. From your left to right -> the engine's are 1,2,3,4. This should help you understand the B-17G systems and engine layout better. www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=jasonblair.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/Pilots-Manual-for-Boeing-B-17-Flying-Fortress.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjXhI_B-5_lAhUIeawKHSFVAdgQFjAAegQIARAB&usg=AOvVaw0SjcssYrqIBPvf93TTg5BS
I was in Groton, CT 9/09 to see the B24 Witchcraft, but also viewed and photographed "Nine o Nine" too, Rest in Peace to all....
The facts will reveal why this airplane got away from these seasoned pilots.
Speculation is pointless.
Rest In Peace men, your passengers and 909.
machia0705 yet you speculated the airplane got away from these seasoned pilots.
Liam Foster
Speculation as to the actual cause. Fact finding will end speculation.
In aviation there are many variables and sometimes the slightest miscalculation can bite you. I know, I’ve been there.
Stay safe.
At the end of the day, is it reasonable to grant exemptions to organizations to carry revenue passagers on antiquated machines? I am quite certain many if not most of these passengers have faith in the organization and the old pilots and have no idea that the risk level is significantly higher for reasons obvious to a professional with a more neutral perspective. If customers are made aware of the situation beforehand, it's another debate. If they are not in any way conscious of the fact that flying an antiquated piston aircraft in the hands of an semi-amateur organization has safety implications, then it's an issue.
The NTSB report clearly shows that this was an organisational accident, meaning that it was not an isolated, catastrophic and unpreventable mechanical failure that caused the accident, nor was it solely caused by one individual.
You said it yourself. “Organisational accident”. That means this B-17 would still be flying today if it wasn’t for failures in the company. Can’t blame the machine on that.
I’m British and I’m a big fan of old warbirds so I’ll admit I’d be sad to not see them flying. A B-17 to an American is what an Avro Lancaster or Spitfire is to a Brit. If they get proper maintenance with no expense spared then they can fly for many more years. They were built to survive years of hardship.
I do know that our warbirds receive more love and attention than passenger jets over here. The RAF still own, fly and maintain a Lancaster I believe. They use it for special occasions, flyovers etc. Maybe more transparency is needed from companies that sell seats for them.
Besides, any aircraft can be brought down with questionable maintenance and/or company errors, and they have. Old or new.
It's beginning to look as if the magnetos on #3 and #4 engines were wet and malfunctioning when they decided to return...
the magnetos had more problems than being wet, there is a good video on Utube by Blanciliro about the NTSB findings. actually part 1 and 2...
@@Laura-wc5xt If you know anyone I can ask a few questions about magnetos to, for these kind of planes, I thank you in advance.
@@deweywatts8456 sorry, I cannot recommend anyone
It is important to note that this is standard MAINTENANCE of a complex aircraft. It is specifically undertaken to prevent inflight emergencies where repairs or adjustments are impossible. It should be further noted that this is the #2 engine (numbered from left to right [starboard to port] from the pilots seat). The inflight problem that developed on October 2, 2019 was the #4 engine, which was shut down and feathered after take-off. Also the #3 engine began to indicate problems while the aircraft was returning to make its landing. The engine pictured in this video was not a factor in the crash of the aircraft.
It is amazing that they let you get so close to the aircraft. That bird was old, but sure looks to be in fine condition. It was never flown in combat, but it sure had a dramatic ending.
I saw the crew do a cylinder replacement on the same engine when Nine-O-Nine visited San Luis Obispo in May 2015. It was an upper cylinder, and Collings canceled all remaining public flights during that visit in SLO.
I flew in "909" twice before it crashed. she will be missed.
Hey John, I was at the Worcester airshow and also saw the mechanic working on engine no 3 while at the airshow with my son. They had an oil leak that was dripping onto the airport surface abs when I asked about it, the mechanic said it been happening a lot lately. I knew it when it crashed and I reported it to the NTSB about it. But after watching your video, it proves that they indeed had a problem with No 3. Also I noticed engine 4 had also a small leak, but no 3 was leaking a lot in the engine cover
I think small oil leaks are common....
Ara, can you please give me a call at 860-867-6722 / Jim
They are working on #2 engine. The engine that failed was #4.
it was #4 said it sputtered but i think before the flight they had trouble getting it started before the flight as not sure if they did or not did an engine runup prior to the flight. as one article said i red they were trying to raise $75,000 for a new overhauled R-1820-97 engine. According to Wikipedia the Collings Foundation has another B-17 they purchased from Evergreen in 2015.
Watch Plane Savers episodes about Buffalo Airways. These old radial engines constantly need service. The safety factor that normally keeps these old birds flying is multiple engines mean the ones still running get the plane back to the airport. What happened to 909? we should know soon. Still is it so tragic that people lost their lives for a ride in a historic warbird.
I flew on this plane a few years ago when it made a stop in Waterloo, Iowa.
Tragic this event. Nobody wins here:-( Flying an old A/C like this is a high risk adventure due it's age & the fact that the design at the time was adequate as a bomber in the 2nd WW with a very low expected lifespan. RIP to those that where in the wrong place at the wrong time:-(
That number four engine that you were looking at is the one that caused this thing to crash. He radioed in that they needed to come back and blow out number four before they resumed the ride. Apparently the plane touchdown 1000 feet before the runway and struck some kind of antenna which caused it to veer sharply to the right and directly into the deicing farm. The pilot was 75 years old, he was the gentleman with the silver hair . he was known to be the most knowledgeable and experienced pilot of this aircraft in the world.
I flew on this plane many years ago and never questioned it being maintained properly. The Collings Foundation is a family of people who would not risk anyone's safety by cutting corners. These engines require CONSTANT maintenance due to their very nature. Pretty much every time they visited Mtn. View, something was being worked on. That shows they are on top of things.
The NTSB report makes it quite clear that this was not the case at all. Collings Foundation's maintainers were not maintaining this aircraft consistently and correctly by the book. Otherwise the faults that led to its crash would not have existed.
it was in Butler PA for the Wings of Freedom tour so far no issues with 909 prior to the accident it said one aritcle the Collings Foundation is trying to raise $75,000 for a new overhauled Wright R-1820-97 As i red they have another B-17 but who knows if that will fly if pending for the 2020 wings of freedom tour and Bomber Camp as 909 was one of several b-17s with a functioning Sperry ball turret.
Yeah it was negligence by the owners plane was not maintained properly
I flew on Nine-O-Nine four times. After my first ride, I learned to board the plane first and sit in the two areas by the top turret, behind the pilot and co-pilot. That way you can hurry over to the front and have the navigator and bombardier area all to yourself for ten minutes before other folks head to the front. I took so many photos and, had the area all to myself! Sadly, the folks who sat in the area I sat in during my other flights did not survive the crash.
Thanks for sharing. What a tragic loss of life and a fine aircraft. Aviation is and has been, like all things in life, a dangerous business at times. However aviation is now still safer than driving your car to the store. Best Wishes & Blessings to all effected by this tragedy. Keith Noneya
What a beast ! What a sad sad loss so beat.the deatail of your vid is like being their makes it hard to watch and emphasizes the loss.but. thank you
I would’ve jumped on board had I the $450 to spend on the flight. Would’ve in a second. Even after watching them work on her. That’s the best time.
"There nothing to see, move on!" commenters forget that crash was caused of engine problem and pilot recovery errors. Report of accident was released.
there really isnt anything to see here other than the footage of the meticulous work that these volunteers put into these birds, including myself
It’s ops normal for the engines to be routinely and randomly worked on on these old birds especially the radials - this is very close to being the kind of uninformed media tripe that is so prevalent following a tragic crash like that of 909
Very sad. Especially since all those on board are dedicated aviation enthusiasts. And for the folks who maintain and fly these birds - a true passion.
I got to go onboard and check it out when it was down here at Marathon airport. Was so sad to hear of it's fate. May those who pershied RIP
RIP 909 and all. What has happened to the remains of the airplane please? Thanks, Thailand Paul
What a beautiful plane it makes me all sad it’s not around anymore i love old aluminum airplanes really reliable.
Engines 1, 2 and 3 were all 0-time engines at the time of the crash. This is #2, so would have been replaced after this video was taken.
I took a tour through this B-17 back at Tico Air show in the '90s
Awesome video thank you
the guy on the ladder at the beginning of the video was the captain the day of the crash RIP
the right 2 engines, 3 and 4(right wing) are in question according to NTSB prelim...not 1 and 2(left wing) where these guys are working. Prelim hints at magnetos may have been damp/wet in 4. It will be a while yet before anything is for sure. Prayers for the families affected by this accident
The recent reports are that the “maintenance” they were doing before the crash was spraying nitrogen around the magnetos to try and dry out some condensation.
I’ve got video of this engine leaking oil that I took on June 16 of 2019. Didn’t photograph the others but noticed this one.
Go to any airport please, and look under the engines of every warbird you see. If it doesn't have oil under it, please tell the pilots their plane is out of oil.
Radials are actually well known for leaking oil.
Alot of what you see at air shows is preventive maintenance, which is a military term for fixing a problem before it becomes an issue. This requires constant inspection and maintenance to keep these aircraft flying and in good condition, you can't just pull into auto Zone and get parts you have to plan ahead every repair and overhaul,
The engines which failed were numbers 3 and 4 on the starboard side. Number 2 engine which they are working on did not fail. Collins had their license suspended in May. Some of the people in this footage are not with us today, I suspect. Sad. RIP.
Sad ending for so many nice folks. May God grant peace to the surviving families.
Less they one month before the fatal crash,they were at the NAS Wildwood fly in... I watched them land and park, they seemed to have an interest in the same engine. I sat in my car and watched and listened to that engine. Several times they climbed up on the wing opened a door on the engine and did something to the motor. They would climb down and start the engine and it didn’t start right up,but when it did is sputtered and blew out really blame smoke. This happened a few times,it just never sounded smooth. But they flew it on several trips with people to n it. I was going to take a trip, but after that I decided maybe next year. This is such a shame,and really a weird feeling I could have been in that aircraft.
Engine #4 failed. It had 850 hours on it. The other 3 engines were all 0 time engines (meaning that they had 0 hours of flight time since major overhaul on them) at the time of the crash. The engines you see under maintenance here were either overhauled or not the engines on the aircraft at the time of the accident (likely the latter). This video is pointless, but I certainly do appreciate a beautiful plane one last time. Thank you for posting :)
I work on my airplane every day..I put 4 new cylinders on..this is routine...
Those planes were also at our airport in Oregon. Have video of them leaving for the day to their next location. Never thought it would crash.
I would think this kind of footage I invaluable to investigators. Gives them an idea what kind of shape this bird was in prior to the accident.
this aircraft was in suburb condition exceptionally maintained. this was a freak accident. i hope they can find the cause to prevent it in the future, but this airplane was no flying scrap heap. by any means.
This old girl was in fantastic shape for her age but it was maintained meticulously by the crew. Money was never a determining factor here. Radials leak and are constantly maintained from day one. All these engines had was 368 hours since overhaul. Ntsb will have answers. It will take time. I see nothing in this video of any value to inspectors. Especially the ill informed commentary . sorry.
Rip 909
@@ad356 how do you know its condition prior to the accident? Did you read the most recent NTSB Report? Extremely sad situation all around but not quite sure what your getting at.
That’s the #2 engine not #4. Come on man.
Agreed.. Made the same comment before seeing yours.
I wish they would replace the mag, points / condenser with solid state ign.
Mags were well understood back in the day, before even my time. It looks like they were the same essentially as automobile point, condenser systems which very maintenance dependent. Hardly surprising they got neglected with eight systems aloft makeshift height access ladders. That's 72 cam positions to maintain in the field, what are the chances?
Are retrofit CDI systems approved and readily available for aero systems?
The post accident comments re. damp HT are ironically naive. Thankfully the NTSB are there to cut through naive optimism.
Sad for those that put their faith in tried and tested puff of nitrogen, how many before them?
@@jimwoods9551 There are no ignition or fuel retrofits for the R-1820 engines that I know of.
"Relief" tube......my nephew got to ride, so jealous!!!
Aircraft engines
require inspection and maintenance often as the stakes are pretty high, I
really don't see anything sinister about them scrutinizing an engine, this like
other rare vintage aircraft 909 is checked often, minor oil leaks are attended
to and issues that may be ok to wait until the next maintenance cycle are taken
care of. One theory is that the magnetos
may have had moisture affecting the performance until the moisture is removed
or evaporates with engine heat. The
curious thing about 909 (very preliminary report) is that the condition of the
engines suggest that № 3 prop may have been
feathered, too early to tell what happened but she was too low, clipped some
approach lights and turned right, so sad to lose one of just a few.
The pilot on the day of the crash was the gray haired man on the ladder at the start of your vid. How do I know?
My name was right under the co-pilot window for some 20 years. I’m flown with the nine O nine so many times.
God Bless to all involved.
The engine they were working on was fine. It was engine 3 & 4 that were chonked. 3 had 1 mag grounded & the other mag with only a few points firing. #4 had advanced timing & issues with pre detonation damage & corrosion.
For owner it is how much will it cost me, for hired pilot it is I am gonna die.
The engine they’re working on is not the number 4 engine that they had to shut down.
They do say that the safest place on the plane is in the tail section
That is the number 2 engine, the problem they had that caused the crash was with number 3 and 4 on the other side.
Replacing the oil cooler on the number 2 engine and the jug is not the piston but the cylinder itself. The problem engine was the #4 engine the day of the accident.
Scotabot; It seems the pilots were already struggling to maintain airspeed, if the flap position for landing(FAA report) was set at zero degrees. Power loss was the problem here, why is still unknown. It appears both #3&4 engines failed and at the worst possible time, when the aircraft was low and slow. At this point even if the proper corrective measures had been attempted, it may have been to late.
On those types of radial engines they have two magnetos per engine and if the moisture is high or if they get wet they won’t fire. And with will run very rough if they have a high moisture content, they were seen morning of the accident trying to blow the magnetos off to get the moisture out of them, so everyone that does not do their research on the aircraft the engines and anything like that before they start making stupid assumptions really needs to before they speak, thanks you just keep going you keyboard warriors lol
Thats the nber 2 engine...not the mber 4 which is in question .
Looks like they were doing some maintenance on an engine that didn't give any problems on the day of the crash.
They were working on #2 engine in this video. It was the #4 engine that failed.
Wow. Restoration was magnificent. .
Just curious have you provide a copy of this video to the FAA Investors handling the case? Maybe they would see something in the video to help the investigation even though it was taken a month earlier. Anything can help. God bless the loss of life so sad.
I have not... They are on top of things ...
So sad bc he managed to land the plane but it all went badly once on the ground.
"we carry all sorts of parts." But do you carry proper aircraft mechanic? From what I'm seeing in the reports, the answer was "no"?
I saw the Memphis Belle on Mud Island in Memphis in the 1990s. She was in terrible shape at that time. Local hoodlums had stolen parts and written graffiti on her. I am so glad she is restored today. What she looked like then was a total disgrace!
Memphis...hoodlums....figures.