5 Things You Never Knew About the B-17 Flying Fortress
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- Опубликовано: 8 май 2024
- Here are 5 things you never knew about the B-17 Flying Fortress. This was made using the World War II flight simulator War Thunder. Hope you enjoy! Please like, comment, and subscribe. #WW2 #WWIIHistory #WarThunder
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My mother worked on B-17s at the Seattle Boeing plant. She said the ladies autographed the inside of the wings, so every time in my Air Force career, when I saw one on static display,I wondered if the plane on display was one of “her’s”. And she had a picture of the B-17 on the wall in her house for the rest of her life.
The roof of the plant was decorated to look like residential city streets, so it would not be recognized by enemy bombers flying over.
You mother and millions others were the secret weapons of WW2. The war was won by the time the atomic bomb was created. Rosie the riveter won WWII. Just imaging Albert Speer used slave labor to build his war machine. Slave labor can do nasty things to V2 components. Perhaps your mother helped build my Uncles plane that came from Seattle. You can view his story on RUclips. Just search “3 Days In May 1943”. Look for image of a B17 with American flag background. Thanks for you story about you mother. God bless her.
@@richardbaranzini8805 that's pretty damn cool.
My uncle was too young to serve in the Armed Forces, so he dropped out of high school and worked at the same Boeing plant making Fortresses. I can't look at one without wondering if he helped build it.
The can do ladies were the savior of our airplane production that played a very important of winning the war.
My 9th grade Geography teacher was a tail gunner in a B17 in 1944. All we had to do to get out of taking a lecture, quiz, or test, was ask a question about the B17 and then sit back and take a nap while he went off for the rest of the class. Being immature young teens, we never realized how hard it was for him to talk about it and he often got emotional. Being a Veteran myself now, I regret how we treated him.🤔😕🇺🇸
My junior year high school English teacher was an American WWII POW. Apparently, he had a rough time being a guest of Adolph Hitler. We as immature idiots, often times would get him to speak about his prison camp days just to avoid class work. He was an amazing dude, like many of his generation. Wish I would have paid attention to his stories. Rest in Peace, Mr. B.
I had a High School science teacher who was a Seabee in the Pacific. He was old-school, so we still had to do the work, but he'd tell some wild stories. Great guy. Glenn Arter, USN.
All part of growing up, unfortunately. "We get too soon old. And too late smart"
At least you matured. Many people stop maturing at that age and remain liberal democrats.
One of my high school teacher's was a tunnel rat in Vietnam and he never talked about it but to say that it was his job. Lots of respect for him and anyone who served in anyway and anytime!
My dad was a tail gunner and his plane was shot down on Black Thursday when they bombed the Schweinfurt ball bearings factory. He was taken prisoner and served two years in the infamous Stalag 17 prison of war camp. He didn't talk about it often but when he did the stories were fascinating as well as scary. I still have a book he gave me that he smuggled into the camp and managed to hold on to the entire time until he was liberated. It has drawings, quotes, and other notes and musings from many prisoners in the camp. I treasure this book dearly and will pass it on to my son.
Very cool story. Tail gunners were amazing people to perform that job.
Did you consider having it printed/published ? I would like a copy .
My dad was also in the Schwienfurt raid. The 351st Bomb Group.
The ol' triangle J.
@@shakundala there is a book Kriege Memories , one of the prisoners created while in 17b . He negotiated for a camera & film with/the German guards to keep a ledger and drawings, etc. My cousin had a copy and loaned it to someone. I am gonna get on Amazon and get one .
He told one story about the mean guards that would sic the dogs on men in their barracks and get a big laugh at the men scrambling to get away . These barracks were segregated by nationality. The guards did this to the Russians. A couple of minutes later, the only thing that came out of the barracks were the dog collars.
"Focke-Wulf", like "Foock-Wolf", not "Fokker-Wulf", "Focke" has nothing to do with "Fokker".
My father was the left waist gunner in a B17 G in the 99th Bob Group stationed in Foggia, Italy. On his last mission - bombing munitions factories in Germany - the 17 was shot up quite badly, and they lost an engine. During the return flight, they lost two more engines, during which time the pilot realized they wouldn't make it back to Foggia. He then headed towards the part of Yugoslavia that is now Croatia, hoping for a safe landing, and the opportunity to fall in with Marshal Tito's partisans there. They actually made a wheels-up landing in a field between two steep hills with that single engine still running, and no crew injuries.
After destroying the super-secret Norden bomb sight, he crew broke up into three groups, but only one group made it out to Sweden and then, England.
My dad and the others were eventually captured and force-marched to Luft Stalag 17ß, all the way back in Krems, Austria, where they spent the duration of the war.
The 17 was stripped of its aluminum skin by locals for patching their roofs. A nice you man from one of the local villages, tracked down my dad a couple of decades ago, and in his letter included a couple of photos of the 17 and about 20 villagers. The B17 G had flown for in excess of 200 nautical miles, full of holes, on a single engine, and landed 10 men safely in some god-forsake field!
Kudos, Boeing. Kudos!
Old Rogue, your Dad was one of the American badasses in the European theater. Thank God for men like him. People in France, Belgium, Italy, Romania, Hungary -- and yes, even Germany -- should write thank you notes to you and your family every year to thank you for your Dad's service.
Nice story
We'll be able to thank people like your father personally when we're able to thank our Savior personally. As best I can I thank Him now and thank you for telling this incredible story.
My dad was in the 15th stationed in Foggia too. He was ground crew fireman for crash rescue. Too often there was nobody left to save. That haunted him. I am glad your dad made it.
Do you mean Switzerland instead of Sweden?
My late father, Gene Roberts, was a B-17 pilot. He often told me of the day a German Me-109 did exactly what you describe in your video about attacking head on. With guns blazing, the German pilot got so close my dad swore he would recognize him to this day. But fortunately for my dad, the German hit nothing but the plane. And my dad was able to continue the mission. But he was so mad at his crew for missing as they fired back at the fast approaching fighter, that after he landed his B-17 back in England, my dad marched his whole crew out to the gunnery range for some extra practice. Swearing he'd never go thru that hair raising experience again.
🐮
Those gunners could only hit their targets about 30% of time, so this was NOT unusual.
@fredrichenning1367 if you ever hunted Dove or Quail with a shotgun you can appreciate how difficult it would be to hit an airplane traveling around 200 mph with a single bullet.
My father was switched from pilot training to guns because he got the best score on the gunnery tests. He hunted jack rabbits with a .22 and I never saw him miss a running jack.
The prototype B-17 didn't crash because of mechanical issues, it crashed because the crew failed to remove the control surface locks before takeoff, rendering the plane uncontrollable.
Operation Aphrodite also included the use of B-24s. One of these 24s was piloted by John Kennedy's brother Joe who was killed when his plane exploded in the air before he could bail out.
Joe Kennedy was in the U.S. Navy. The Navy had a parallel program to the U.S. Army Air Force's Project Aphrodite. It was codename Anvil and that program was what Joe Kennedy was involved with. He was flying a U.S. Navy Consolidated PB4Y-1 Liberator bomber packed full of explosives when the plane exploded prematurely killing Kennedy and his co-pilot.
The main reason Project Aphrodite was cancelled in January 1945 was because of a scary incident where a crew bailed out of their B-17 they were flying, but the remote control onboard had failed and was non responsive. The unmanned B-17 packed full of high explosives began circling around several villages and other military installations in England causing a major scare. Several of these villages and military installations were evacuated. After several hours of circling the English countryside, the B-17 finally ran out of fuel and fortunately crashed into a farmers field, leaving behind a deep crater. This incident ended Project Aphrodite.
Interesting, wasn't aware of the locked control surfaces - and if that wasn't bad enough, flash forward to 1943 and the horrific crash of the second prototype B-29 that caught fire just minutes after taking off. The burning plane flew over downtown Seattle before crashing and exploding into a meat packing plant - killing all 11 on the plane, 20 workers from the plant, and a firefighter engaged in fighting the inferno. The whole affair was covered up by the press until after the war for national security reasons. So, you know, if Boeing should ever offer you a seat on a test flight, might want to think long and hard before accepting.
That's right. It was another important incident in aviation history. Because of that simple mistake causing the crash... the Pre Flight check list and... check lists in general became standard practice! Something every pilot does to this day!
I lived a short distance from where Kennedy's aircraft blew up. It's still possible to find small pieces of the aircraft. The village that I live in had a B-24 crash on it and a new road and building development is named after the aircraft, Belle of the East. There is also a memorial above the graves of two young U.S Naval Aviators near where I live: they were working with the RAF to learn night-fighter airborne interception techniques. They were unfortunately killed in a blue on blue when their IFF equipment in their Mosquito failed and they were shot down by anti-aircraft fire. Their graves are beautifully looked after by the local villagers and I always put flowers on their graves on the Fourth of July and on our Armistice Day which is the 11th of November. I hope that this is of some interest.
@@grendelgrendelsson5493 I'm guessing from your account that IFF is probably a method for recognizing friend from foe? If so, to my mind that is so much more tragic. I definitely find it humbling, interesting, and remarkable that you and your neighborhood continue to honor these young airmen all these years later. I grew up very near a large cemetery that had various sections set aside for war casualties, going back at least to the US Civil War. My parents would take us out once a year to clean up and lay fresh flowers on the graves. Nice to know that others do the same.
My dad was a radio operator and 50 cal machine gunner on the B17 35 missions over Germany he was a member of the Lucky Bastards Club i tried to take him up for a ride when the Wings Of Freedom were here he wouldn't go i have his complete diary of all his missions they were the Great Generation RIP Dad Thank You For your service
Hey Gary - great stuff and yes to your father and all service men and women … Thank you for your service 🇺🇸🇺🇸.. my father was also in the US Army Air Corp as a B17 Navigator… unfortunately he died at 57 yrs old when I was a young 18 knowitall kid- and I miss him everyday of my life. I really didn’t get to know him and of his war experiences. But I have all his flight records/ missions and info from my oldest brother.who is a V Nam vet and talked a lot with my dad. What we would give for 1 more day with our dads -right ? Takecare 👍🇺🇸
Be thankful for what they gave for all of us.
My father in law was a tail gunner who flew more than 56 mission until being shot down over France. He said he could not go home until all his buddies were safe and accounted. True hero for a Country Boy Who Made Good.
@@Br5494ever Yes we all miss our dads so much, all the more when you get older and wiser. My dad ( I am English ) was in the desert war with the British 8th army and told us all many war stories. Like yourself, I really miss my mum and dad and wish I could talk to them again now that I am older and realise far more about life than I did when they were alive.
@Repent and believe in Jesus Christ "Praise the Lord...and, pass the Ammunition
Interesting coincidence. My father was radio operator/waist gunner on a B17 called Jezebel. While flying over New York City during the World series he was playing the World series over the radio for the crew. His pilot, a LT Wheeler, pulled out of formation and buzzed Yankee Stadium stopping the game. Mayor Laguardia (sp) was livid and wanted their butts however as it turned out to be a top notch publicity stunt highly increasing the sale of war bonds they were let off with just a reprimand as dad told it and the old news clippings he had confirmed.They went on to England and flew 26 missions over Germany.
My uncle was a B-17 ball turret (AKA: belly) gunner during WWII. He was selected for this role because he was a small guy and could fit into the ball turret. He was a great man and lived to be 95.
My great uncle was a ball turret gunner and lived to be 93 after they were shot down over France and he over a year escaped the Germans. Clayborn Wilson
Man you guys who had family who were ball turret gunners, it took a special man to man that station, it was a suicide pact if the plane had to land and the landing gear wouldn't deploy (I think there was a movie made about such an incident). My dad was a tail gunner on a B-17, which had the same small stature requirement as the ball turret position. Kudos and salutes to all those brave men who served in WWII.
@@timothybruneau4173 Some serious cajones were required to do that role. I wouldn't fancy it.
My father was a tail gunner on a B-17. He was good at it and was lucky enough to come home alive from it after flying more missions than they were suppose to. He earned a bronze v star for all his efforts.
What a brave man thank you for sharing!
My dad was a tail gunner on a B-17 as well. When I was young, I asked him once "dad, did you kill anybody in the war?" to which he answered "I hope not". Although he never told us if he had any kills, I have his journals from the war, but I've read them and all I remember is in one of them, he wrote "we took a lot of flak today" and also of losing one of his buddies. My dad was also lucky to come home alive.
My dad was also a tail gunner on a B-17, 13th US Army Air Force in 1945 just as WWII was ending. He was also small enough to be a backup ball turret gunner - a much hated gunner position.
Much respect
@@joeyager8479 Respect to your dad, my dad was also a tail gunner (above entry). Yep the ball turret was not an enviable spot, those men were beyond brave.
My late stepfather was a waist gunner on B-17s (from their first runs). At first, the waist guns did NOT have any kind of arrestor, to avoid the gunners from shooting their own planes. After his second or third sortie, the service crew for his plane realized that the back end of the B-17 was LOADED with unusual bullet holes, something like 100. My stepfather complained the "the damn Germans were just unbelievable" that day. According to my stepfather, his service crew man replied "ya silly bastard, that was YOU that shot up this plane". According to my stepfather, they showed him that all of the holes mushroomed OUT in the aluminum. Supposedly, arrestor suddenly arrived at bases, to be installed on the waist gunners, within a week. Apparently, my stepfather was NOT the only one to do this.
My stepdad has been gone for 8 years now, and I never thought to verify this story with professionals, but I can say this. That story was repeated repeatedly (decades ago), with his remaining flying crew by many of the members of his flight crew, at the get-togethers of his WWII reunions.
My stepdad did 39 missions. Never a scratch. Not many crewmembers could say that...
Just like "Indiana Jones" father shot off the rudder on the plane, and he said to Indy: "They got us son!" 🤪
My Dad was a radio operator and waist gunner on a B17 in the 91st bomb group based in England.
He flew 28 missions, got Air medal with Oak Leaf Clusters and I have his paperwork for his Distinguished Flying Cross.
His bomb group had a rough road to hoe, lost 85%
Lost 85% of their original al crews and 100% of the replacements. He refused to ever speak about it. I rec'd his paperwork with some photos whe. He passed. God Bless him forever.
@@lynnephelps7984 I'm sure it was an awful part of his life & a part he did not want to relive.
This was my Dad He was a decorated World War II Army Air Corps Veteran, serving in the 97th Bombardment Group as a Staff Sergeant. He received the Distinguished Flying Cross and the Air Medal with six Oak Leaf Clusters for flying 51 missions as a tailgunner on B-17s over Europe.
My grandmother's neighbor John Mass, was an aircraft mechanic on B-17s, he was offered many aircraft jobs after the war. He chose to work on boats. He saw too many aircraft full of blood and body parts, haunting him till the day he died!
I can see how that would be very disturbing!!
Think about the guys who repaired Shermans, they saw the same thing.
I remember as a child reading the poem, Death of the Ball Turret Gunner, it actually gave me nightmares.
In 2000, I flew in a B17. It was the nine-o-nine. We went up to 5k feet for 20 minutes. Amazing. The noise from 4 big engines was deafening. The skin of the plane was as thick as a cereal box. A bullet would have no problem going right through. Those men were incredibly brave. Thank you for your dedication.
I did too with shorts on and in a B-29.Boy was it TINY and a 29 large as in No Thanks you'll never get out in a Heated suit w Flak jacket.Brave Men at 19..
RIP Nine-O-Nine
In 2008 I was lucky to video and tour 9-0-9, in Manchester, NH. I also videoed it warming up engines (quite the wind blast) then taking off. Returning from work the evening before I saw its unmistakable B17 shape flying toward me low over the trees along the road I lived on. (On one of its passenger flights). Then 909 turned to fly over the cornfield by my house.
yeah, noticed that too when I got a chance to walk around inside the Memphis Belle...[the movie Belle]...when it was being worked-on at the local airport...since they had gained a bit of a rep repairing and restoring one that had crashed there at an air show a bit earlier and had often done it with improvised parts...you could actually push the skin in and out with your fingers...not much protection against a 20mm....
My old boss and mentor from Jr. & High School was Major Carl Clark, who flew the 909 after first being restored. He was a B-17 pilot flying out of Bassingborne, England during WWII. He flew in a couple of Bomb Groups and was a Pathfinder in his last group. Check out Carl Clark and The Amazing Landing.
I worked for him for years and never knew he was a Pilot as he never talked about it. Once he began flying the 909 he was open to discussing his missions. RIP Carl Clark, you were an institution to youth of Idabel, Oklahoma at the Rocket Roller Rink.
The head on attack of the German fighters, according to my father, a B17 waist gunner, was often done with a barrel roll through the B17 formation. My father thought they were showing off until he spoke with a German pilot after the war. It turned out that the fighters had little to no armor on the sides, but did have some protection underneath, so they rolled with the belly of their plane toward the B17 as they passed by them.
Fascinating!!
Yep its completely true the Fw190s had a 8-10mm armored plate on the belly to protect the fuel tank and pilot as well as the engine and its cowling. almost all planes had a bullet proof glass plate in the front of the cockpit and an armored seat/headrest and later models of the BF190 had armor around the fuel tank but not from the bottom
Adolf Galand once remarked that making a frontal attack on a B17 was like "making love to a burning porcupine."
I love hearing stories of American and German pilots getting together after the war and exchanging stories.
@@mikew.8894 Wasnt he in charge of the ME 262's? If I remember right, he wanted to use the ME 262 to shoot down the B17, but his nuttty boss wanted to use them as offense bombers.
My father was a B-17 pilot. After each mission, he would dig a piece of flak out of the plane and keep it in a utility belt. I still have that utility belt with all the pieces of flak today. It’s a prized possession.
That's lit bro
Very cool. Grandfather flew two tours as an upper ball turret gunner. Got shot down once over the Mediterranean.
My father was also a B-17 pilot. For most of his early missions, he feared a piece of flak would come up thru his legs and kill him. Which almost happened halfway thru his tour when a piece of flak did just what he feared, flying up between his legs and ricocheting around the cabin. When it fell back down between his feet and stopped, he felt it was a "sign" not to be afraid anymore. After all, what were the odds this would ever happen again? He'd "dodged a bullet" and flew unafraid the rest of his missions. Keeping this piece of flak as a good luck charm the rest of his life. Now mine as well!
He talked about one mission where having been getting shot at by flak and he noticed he was feeling kinda cold. He looked down and a piece of flak had come through the plane and stuck in his leg. He was cold because is severed the cord on his suit. So nerved up he hadn't even noticed he was hit. He then picked his frozen blood up and threw it out, so he wouldn't have to mop the plane upon return lol. He had some stories.
Donate it to a veterans museum someday.
Gus, my father in law, flew 35 missions as a ball turret gunner on "Patent Pending", 5 more missions than the required 30 to end your tour and get shipped back to the US.
One of his last missions was on February 15th 1945 over Dresden Germany a mission that arguably broke the back of the German invasion.
He kept a private log/scrapbook of all his missions that my wife and I had bound and keep as a treasured memory .
I have a defective altimeter that was replaced in my uncles B17 in England. Nice souvenir of these young men bravery
I wish you guys would make copies and sell the copies I would buy one immediately
Think about getting that log /scrap book scanned and the information donated to a history museum as a primary source for future generations.
I myself doubt that Dresden air attack. In reality German war machine had been effortless, because U.S. 8th Air Force had bombed German fuel refineries to bits.
All those new Tiger tanks, Me 262 jet fighters, lorries, other aircraft were wholly useless without necessary fuel.
It had been extraordinary success with all the B-17 units and men, and women who build these bombers. Thank for them and hats off, dudes!
What memories are in that logbook. What a documentary that would be.
My father was a B-17 pilot in WW II. During a mission over France, his plane was hit and both engines on the right wing were lost. My father was the only member of the flight crew that was not injured. He single handedly brought the plane and crew back to England safely. He was awarded the Distinguished Flying Cross. My father was a true hero. You mentioned that once a B-17 was able to return with just 2 engines. I wonder if you were referring to my father's plane.
He was a amazing pilot
my Dad .....He was a decorated World War II Army Air Corps Veteran, serving in the 97th Bombardment Group as a Staff Sergeant. He received the Distinguished Flying Cross and the Air Medal with six Oak Leaf Clusters for flying 51 missions as a tailgunner on B-17s over Europe.
A lot of B-17s made it back on 2 engines...
...but rarely when those engines are on the same side. So yeah, that was quite a feat of flying your father pulled off.
Brad he was a amazing man and pilot thank you for his service
God bless him!!! Something similar happened to "Rosie's Riveters"...both port side engines out. They somehow made it to The Channel, when they spotted a fighter ahead. Fearing the worst, the crew braced for an attack...the fighter came in gradually, very carefully....it was a P-47 Thunderbolt sent to shepherd the cripples home! Now accompanied by this little friend, the crew was able to throw out their .50s, and lighten up....Robert Rosenthal brought them home!!!
As to the crash of the first test aircraft in the Army competition; the crew took off with the central control lock engaged. Unable to maneuver the aircraft it flew into a hill that was almost straight ahead. Up to that point in aviation, a "checklist" was rather rare as most of the procedures were left up to the pilot in the left seat and his memory. Co-pilot's were just there to follow his orders. Several newspapers in that day trumpeted with the usual early aviation hysteria that the '17 was so complicated that one man couldn't remember everything. Not true, simply follow the list-"ask and answer".
it wasnt a central lock, it was a control surface lock for the rudder and elevators. consequently the aircraft climbed too steeply, stalled and crashed on the airfield.
Major Poyer P. Hill was the pilot that made that huge mistake. The air force named Hill Airforce base in Ogden Utah in his honor.
@@thurin84 central lock, control lock, pad lock, I think we got the idea and he was pretty much accurate in passing on the gist of what happened. But thanks for really nailing it down.
@@larrycooper9487 it makes a difference. having the control surfaces locked caused a specific type of crash. ie stall. its didnt fly into a mountain. it didnt have mechanical issues. but hey, who needs facts. amiright?
This is why those red strips saying remove before flight were implemented.
My Dad was a Bombardier on his plane Ms. MaNookie. On 11/5/43, Dad took shrapnel in his right thigh, and return to active flights on 11/14/43. On 2/21/44, his plane was hit hard (exact words were "Blew the plane up" and he helped the engineer to bale out and he followed. He hit the ground with his head which knocked him out. When he awoke, a farmer was holding a pitchfork on is chest and was given over to the Germans. Dad spent 13 months in prison camp (We think it was Stalag 2 along the Baltic Sea) and when the war ended, he came home to New Orleans. He married my mother in 1946 and three babies later (1948, 1949, and me in 1950). He passed in 2003. Dates came from his original flight log and I also have dad's Purple Heart and POW medal plus his leather flight jacket which kept him warm during the winter months. At an San Jose CA air show in the early 1990's, I bordered a surviving B-17 and can attest to the thin walls and cramped space.
My Dad’s group of 3 was also captured by a farmer with a pitchfork! They were all carrying Colt .45s, but they didn’t want to kill a civilian, so the surrendered to him.
Several years ago, I read the war memoirs of Saburo Sakai, Japanese WW2 Zero pilot ace. Like the German pilots in your video, Sakai was amazed at how much damage the B-17 could take before it was shot-down and that they often had to break contact because their Zeros ran out of ammunition. He was amazed at the discipline of the B-17 pilots to maintain a tight formation when under attack. He wrote that the earlier versions of the B-17 didn’t have a rear tail gunner so that was a vulnerable spot that he successfully exploited when attacking. When the rear tail gunner was installed, the B-17 became a plane that he dreaded attacking. There was no weak spot.
B17's flew in combat box formation. Any German Luftwaffe fighter plane flew on that space was going to be hit by 50 caliber bullets one way or another!
The Germans still were able to shoot down about 4,700 B-17s throughout the war.
I was lucky enough to get in on one of the last backstage tours of the US Airforce Museum at Wright-Patterson AFB. The craftsman were rebuilding a B-17. They were working on the belly gun pod. How anyone could do that job and not go insane was beyond me.
They'd have to raise the turret, orient it correctly, open the hatch, climb out and only then could get to their parachute.
My father was a B-17 pilot assigned to the 8th Air Force in England. At 21 years of age, he was commanding a crew of 10 men and taking on the Luftwaffe of Germany, along with the ground-based cannons that fired at them. They weren't allowed to break formation or "evade" enemy fire as they flew in formation to their bombing missions. He always had nerves of steel; no doubt his nerves were tempered in the fire of of those missions. He was a hero, but he was far from alone. We turned out hundreds of thousands just like him in every branch and every mode of warfare.
my father was a radio op,,,2nd bomb group,,,also knew german ,,he would monitor the luftwaffe fighter and flak gun nets incoming,,,,a good many of the controllers were women who would give the radar guided flak guns the FIRE command,,several seconds to 30K altitude,,
The B-17 that landed with only one main landing gear was piloted by my Uncle Ed Boyles with Desert Aviation in Mesa Arizona (Falcon Field). The company had five B-17s used in fighting forest fires. I believe all five were eventually lost to accidents. I thought he did an excellent job. The film company didn't pay anything extra for the footage as it was classified as a news event.
The first B-17 I ever say was on a south to north approach to the old Denver airport in the 1980's.
We heard her LONG before we saw her, doing a few fly-over circles of the old Lowery AFB, then she made the final turn at the beacon and flew right over our house at about 300 feet.
I worked on C-130A's when I served in the Navy, but this old bird still fills me with pride and awe.
I'm told my uncle was a radioman on one the last 6 months of the war but he never discussed his experiences with any non-veterans.
Thanks for making this video! My dad was a B-17 belly gunner. If you saw him you would know why, he was about 5’5”. Little guy gets screwed. He passed away before I was 10 yrs. old, so I only heard a few of his stories. I remember my mom, brother and I took a plane to a small vacation spot up north in California when I was around 7. My dad drove up and met us there the next day. So I asked him why he didn’t fly with us when we came north. That’s when he told me what he experienced in WW II as a belly gunner. Two stories were about being stuck in the ball turret due to damage. The ball turret has to be orientated properly to enter and exist the turret. Damage caused to the turret ring prevented him from moving the turret, the crew couldn’t use the hand crank to move the turret, only after frantic attempts with hammers and crow bars could they get him out. A similar situation happened on another mission, this time the hydraulics were out and the landing gear was damaged. They were going to have to belly land the plane with him still stuck in the ball turret. With less than five minutes before they had to land they were able to get him out of the turret. He said those planes were held together with bailing wire and duct tape. If the plane could get off the ground it was considered operational. He retired from the Air Force in 1967 and since WW II he never flew again. Again, thanks for this video.
Re: "the hydraulics were out and the landing gear was damaged"
I read an account by a WWII AAF mechanic that everything on the B17 was electric and on the B24 it was hydraulic.
@@johnclawed If your asking me what a 7 yr. old remembers now at the age of 62, you are not going to get exact quotes. Nor have I ever been in a B-17, read it’s schematics, nor have any specialized knowledge of its construction, modifications or operational details.
@@notebene9791 I'm sorry it sounded like that. I didn't mean to shoot you down, as it were. 30 years ago I used a bulletin board where some great first hand accounts were posted. There was a merchant mariner who posted a 10-page memoir of the Murmansk run, and there was the mechanic I quoted. I wish I'd saved those posts and others, so I just wanted to preserve that bit of trivia here, since this is all about the B17, and I thought you might find it interesting too.
Was his name Sean Astin by any chance?
@@goblue0020 I wish I remembered their names. I've never seen a forum that good ever since.
My father (John) enlisted in the Army Air Corps (1942), age 17, and served as a gunner and radio operator on B-17s. He was assigned to the 8th Air Force in England and flew 35 combat missions over Europe. Including one shown as "SECRET" on his papers. The records were lost during a fire at Fort Benjamin Harrison.
His brother (George) was a Navy aviator flying in the Pacific area: his plane was shot down . The bad news was wired to the family, who were surprised three months later when he walked in the front door in his Navy uniform. He went on to be a civilian businessman.
My father had left the service at the end of the war and worked as a TV/Radio engineer. He was called back to duty for the Korean conflict but didn’t have to deploy; and stayed with the new US Air Force. He retired after 26 years of active duty including support in the Vietnam War.
My mother and her sisters worked at a ball-bearing factory during WWII.
My father, uncle and mother are all buried at Arlington National Cematary.
Thank you for the reminder.
Regards
Here's another one you probably didn't know. They stopped painting B17's to save weight and time in production. Even though it weighs more a painted B17 will fly faster (~10 kts) and farther (~90 miles) than an unpainted B17 with the same fuel load.
I didn't know that! It makes some sense though, as the paint would at least partially fill the dimples caused by riveting, thus reducing the drag. Do you have a citation, by any chance?
We had with Spitfires they was designed built using flush rivets but apart from cost took longer to build than using normal rivets so after trials as fully non flush caused all sorts of issues with not only speed but manoeuvrability also due to drag . But in the end worked out a compromise! Low pressure areas used normal and high pressure Flush rivets without a too big an effect on performance was also done with other planes also.
@@oldrogue4247 very recently there was a video made about The matter that cited actual USAAF test results, iirc. I believe you can find The video on RUclips And see The citations The video uploader used
@@anttitheinternetguy3213 Thanx man. I saw it, or one very much like it in the past few days!
Perhaps the paint allowed the boundary layer of air to not "stick" to the plane like the smooth aluminum did.
the one thing I know about the B-17 is, it was crewed with the bravest human beings who ever lived, one, in particular, I am named after, Captain Colin Kelly died December 10, 1941
I rode in the B-17G "Yankee Lady" @ the WWII WEEKEND AIRSHOW IN READING PA, I'll NEVER forget it!
On my bucket list for sure
WWII weekend is by far the best airshow in the country. I go whenever I can!
Got my bucket list ride three weeks ago in a P51. Worth every dollar!!!!
I left a reply to plee587 about the 909 and my experience at the Eighth Air force Re-union in Pittsburgh during the mid 90's . It's a hellava good story , even if I do say so myself .
My Uncle Irving flew in a B-17 over the Pacific in WW 11 , was shot down and was rescued 3 X and returned home and
lived to 92 in the Bronx NYC.
The 'head on' method of attacking an enemy bomber was devised in the early years of WW2 by the legendary Eric 'Winkle' Brown of the Fleet Air Arm, when he flew carrier missions protecting Atlantic convoys. He discovered that the best way to attack the heavily armed Condor long range bombers was from directly in front to target the pilots.
I had the honor of flying in the Collin’s Foundation B-17 909 about fifteen years ago out of Baton Rouge. About a thirty minute flight over False River. I had a smile on my face for several days after that. Unfortunately, the 909 was lost in a crash a few years ago. 😢
My father flew one of these in the 8th Air Force, 452 Bombardment Group. He flew on back with only two engines and said it was nothing but a big glider at that point. What he did to survive was to turn the turbo boost up to the level used during takeoff. You are only supposed to do so for about 10 minutes maximum, but dad did it for hours during the return flight. They landed on the south coast of Britain with the waves slapping their tires. When the plane was returned to the base his crew chief came to my father and asked what the hell he had done to the engines. My father told him about the boost. The crew chief complained that he would have to replace the engines as they could no longer be repaired. Dad said he went out to the plane and spun the two engines by hand, and they turned quite easily as they were burned completely out. Once the cylinders cooled there was no compression remaining. My dad did not care and told me, "none of us wanted to visit Germany at that time."
One other thing, they were told that in formation the interlocking fire from all the B-17's would make them invincible. He told me that was bull manure, German fighters shot B-17's down all the time. It was just a lie they told them to give them confidence. My father said that once the US fighters could go to the target and back they were all milk runs.
Vlad that is like a scene right out of war movie! Your Dad is one of the heroes of the 8th Air Force in which everyone was a hero. The Mighty Eighth was like no other unit in WWII.
Hmmm... my dad also was a B-17 command pilot. He flew 25 missions in the 94th Bomb Group during the summer and early fall of 1943. The theory that the fields of "interlocking" fire would get the bombers to their target intact was not a lie. It was doctrine developed by the AAF in the 1930s when massed heavy bombers were first envisioned as strategy. Of course, there was no way to test it until 1942 when, with the advent of modern fighters like the Me-109, it was shown not to work, but it was not a lie. It was accepted doctrine that AAF planners truly believe to be true. I'm a graduate of the USAF's Air War College where this history was taught in detail. And after the Luftwaffe was rendered an ineffective fighting force in February, 1944, the ensuing missions of the 8th AF were not exactly "milk runs." For the remaining 14 months of the Combined Bomber Offensive, the Germans had 2 million soldiers manning their Flakkorps firing the dreaded 88mm guns. The nemesis of the bombers at that point became not German fighters but flak "so thick you could walk home on it." Survival of American airmen became a little more likely, but only enough that the tour of duty was increased from 25 missions to 35. Even during 1944-5, combat losses of the 8th remained high enough that these limited tours were still necessary in order to give the air crews enough hope of surviving the war that morale could be maintained.
@@Buddy308 All my father knew was that someone told him false information. I would still consider telling someone something is a fact, when you do not know it to be so, is still shady. Whether they knew it was false or not did not signify to the crews. As to flak, it simply never scared the aircrews anywhere near as much as the fighters. As to the Air Force War College, what you say could be correct, or absolute tripe since most of the military brass on both sides of the war falsified many of the records. All I know is what my father told me, and that was once they had 'little friends' to the target things significantly improved from their perspective. However, they would not have been informed of actual losses. "Milk run", in the end, is not a defined term so what is slightly better to one person might be significantly better to another.
It's better by far, to replace engines than humans!
Vlad: My father, a bombardier, was also in the 452nd, based at Deaphon Green near Norwich, until he lost an eye over Germany on 9/25/45. I visited the base in the late 1970's. The runways and some of their huts were still there. It was eerie.
Ever since my boyhood, I deeply revered the Boeing B-17 "Flying Fortress" USAAF Heavy Bomber and its valorous grew.
There was an impossible majesty about the design of the B-17. It was one of the best-looking planes ever flown, with an awesome character that was spine-tingling to behold. The U.S. involvement in WWII took place when I was 5-9 years old, and it was one of the great disappointments of my life that I was too young be a member of the crew of a B-17. I finally went aboard a B-17 during an air show when I was in my 70s, and I shall never forget the thrill I felt when I beheld its technical metal internal gadgetry. What a plane!
I had an uncle who was in the Army Air Corps. he was a SSgt and line chief stationed at a B-17 base in England. The stories he told me about how shot up the B-17's were but yet got their crews back home is something I'll never forget.
You shouldn't ever forget!
Do you remember what Air Base your uncle was stationed at in England?
@@johnebell535 I'm sure he told me at one point but it's been so long as he passed away almost 27 years ago.
You won’t find stories like that about the B-24. They couldn’t take a whole lot of damage like that and stay in the air. It didn’t take much to knock one out of the air.
During WWII my grandmother was part of the crew that installed the instrument panels for the piolets. my Grand father was in Europe fighting. I did not know my Grandma helped build them until after her death. Lose Lips Sink Ships! I wish I had known, I would have loved to talk to her about it.
My grandfather was a B-17 pilot, and as he was about to be out into active service WW2 ended. I've always been fascinated.
25 years ago I had the privilege of climbing aboard a B-17. I was at the local airport just before takeoff. I JUST missed a B-24. I had my 8 year old daughter onboard. I told her imagine that it's 40 below zero and there are people shooting at you. The price of liberty.
i had a photo of my daughter on board,,in my fathers radio op seat,,
A Luftwaffe ace once told me attacking a B-17 combat box was like standing in a bathtub & looking up at the shower-head, while trying to avoid getting wet.
The advent of the B-17G model with the twin .50's in the Bendix remotely operated chin turret made the head on attack much more dangerous. With that edition, no less than 6 machine guns could be brought to bear when the cheek guns were reintroduced. With a straight on high approach, many surprised German fighter pilots found themselves flying into a plane shredding buzzsaw of .50 cal. bullets. The head on pass quickly became the least popular attack vector, and justly so.
Even before the advent of the chin turret head on attacks on B17's weren't as effective as people think, there were Luftwaffe units that were trying it as a new procedure but the problem was the closing speed between the two aircraft was so great that they only had several very short seconds to line up a shot, only the best pilots at gunnery could score hits with them usually being ineffective anyway, the effectiveness of the head on attacks have been greatly exaggerated over the years.
Last month I read one of the best accounts of what it was like attacking a B17 formation, he said "In the early days of the war when I flew in the east and would get into dogfights with the Russian's it was kind of fun, sometimes you'd shoot them down and sometimes they'd shoot you down, but after I was transferred to the west and the first time I turned into a B17 box every sin I ever committed in my life flashed right before my eyes".
Adolph Galland once compared attacking a bomber box to trying to bite a porcupine in the butt. He was never one to mince words.😄
@@dukecraig2402 Excessive closing speeds was also the "Achilles heel" of both the Me-163 Komet AND the Me-262 Schwalbe jet fighter. Neither could get off more than a few rounds against the B-17 formations per pass.
@@Kpar512
Yea I've heard that was an issue with them to forcing some of the pilots to try things like porpoiseing when approaching a bomber to get more firing time on them.
Just last week I read about the head on attacks against the bombers and how it was actually controversial in the Luftwaffe with some air commander's not adopting the technique for their units because of the fear of collisions vs the limited effects it had.
Think about it, straight on you don't have much of a target, just the diameter of the fuselage along with the thickness of the wings and the frontal area of the engine's, considering the unlikely chances of hitting something because of the brief moments you have due to the closing speed against the chances of a collision I understood after reading the article it's point that the effectiveness of it's been a bit exaggerated over the years.
@@dukecraig2402 Well said, Duke. It is clear that you have given this some thought. I might also note the old naval strategy (battleship era) of "Crossing the T" in which the battlewagons tried to cross in front of a line of opposing ships so that your guys would be able to bring ALL their guns to bear, while the enemy could only use their forward guns (but had a MUCH BIGGER target to aim at). Opposite strategies in different circumstances, of course, but it kind of illustrates your point even more.
My father was one of the ground crew that operated the radio for the radio controlled experiments. I've got photos of him with an early transponder, eyes to the sky, and guiding an airplane. He didn't tell us the details, but I know he was fairly high up in the engineering department. Thanks for this vid, I'm always interested in warbirds!
In 1986 I met a pilot who was co pilot, in a B17. He said on his tenth Mission they were attacked over Germany, and shot up so bad they had to crash land on an Island that was half in the hands of the Germans and half in a nation that was not in the war. after the crash they split up into two groups, and half went one way, the the other wound up in German hands, and went to a German prison. The man I was talking to went with the group that got caught, and spent 18 months in Stalag 17. The crew who went the other way, were later all killed in another mission.
When in aviation structural mechanics school back in the 90's, my class rebuilt the bomb bay doors on a B-17. It was being restored at the Pima Air Museum in Tucson. We built the jigs and then used them for the doors. It was a great project.
Idabel, Oklahoma remembers one of its greatest heros, Captain Carl Clark, B-17 Pathfinder Pilot. Later in his life he was reunited with the B-17 and flew the 909 for the Collins Foundation. Carl owned a Skating Rink in Idabel and was a friend to every child he ever met. I was fortunate to have worked for him for several years and to remain friends until his passing. Check out: Carl Clark and the Amazing Landing.
Hi, I had an uncle who was a tail gunner in the B-17 during WWII. He came home with any injuries. He was very fortunate.
I had a great uncle who was also a tail-gunner. He refused to talk about any of his experiences.
I had an uncle who served on Tinian Island and my father was in the battle of Okinawa.
I remember seeing these while we lived on military air base, as a young man!
For those that have never seen a B-17 in person or been inside of one, they are surprisingly small. The only plane that surprised me for being even smaller than I thought was the PBY Catalina.
We have one here in AZ at the Commemorative Air Force Museum. You can’t always go in it but I have and agree, very small inside. The B-17 has been my favorite aircraft of all time since I first saw one in a picture when I was about 7 years old.
@@aaronpearson2389 They are beautiful. I am not a great piston engine aircraft fan, but the B-17 is one of my favorites of the type. I had the pleasure of touring the one that was involved in the mid air collision last month. I saw it in May. It made me very sad for the loss of both the aircraft and the crew.
i had the opportunity to go up in the Collins Foundation's B17, the 909 (R.I.P.) It was the smallest aircraft i'd ever flown in and the smoothest flight i ever experienced.
@@mikew.8894 Yeah we think of bombers as being big, spacious fuselage and some are but this was much smaller than I could have imagined. On the other side of that, I remember seeing the B-36 at the Air Force Museum and remember being totally shocked at how large it was. If it were not for the bulkheads, you could get the whole B17 fuselage inside with room to spare.
@@aaronpearson2389 During the week of Thanksgiving last fall, 2023, I was visiting family in Phoenix and we went to the Commemorative Air Force Museum and we had a great time. I walked through the B-17 and it is very small inside. I plan on visiting again this coming Thanksgiving when I go back to Phoenix.
In 1941, the Brits ordered some B-17's - they were the "D" model. Some of the guns were downgraded to .303. There were also no guns in the tail, and no powered turrets. One .303 in the nose, one .303 in the radio room blister, one .303 in a bathtub, and a .50 in each waist blister. One of the complaints that the Brits had about these aircraft, is that for some unknown reason the bomb bay doors would regularly fail to open at high altitude causing a mission abort. But as the crew came back to england and reduce to a lower altitude, the bomb bay doors would work, so the bombs could be jettisoned to allow for a safe landing w/o armed high explosives on board. Boeing engineers figured out why the bay doors were not functioning correctly. At some point, after the aircraft reached cruising altitude, the crew would relieve themselves before entering the combat area.. they would do that into the bomb bay.. since the b-17 bay doors overlapped slightly, the urine could not drain out before freezing the doors shut..when returning to england, as they reduced altitude, the urine would thaw.. thus the doors worked again to jettison the bomb load..
...and the brit crew members knew that
@@ssnerd583 Bloody stupid comment
I call BS. Would take GALLONS and a bit of buildup to cause this, im certain the hydraulics werent that weak to not overcome a few pints of frozen pee
@@ssnerd583.The successes of Bomber Command were purchased at terrible cost. Of every 100 airmen who joined Bomber Command, 45 were killed, 6 were seriously wounded, 8 became Prisoners of War, and only 41 escaped unscathed (at least physically). Of the 120,000 who served, 55,573 were killed including over 10,000 Canadians. Of those who were flying at the beginning of the war, only ten percent survived. So, what are you trying to say?
Interesting detail. Heard about guns freezing, but not about the bomb bay doors. I think first batch to RAF were Cs (a pic I have does not seem to have the cowl flaps introduced by the D).
Another Great video TJ. I actually learned something I did not know about the Beautiful B-17. Most of The pilots who flew them in combat said that they would never fly anything else because the B-17 could bring you home when all others couldn't. They had to be very brave men to climb into a plane and fight miles above the earth. Knowing that group of thin cables that ran just above their head along both sides of the ceiling of the fuselage worked the aircraft's control surfaces like the Ailerons, Rudder, Elevators and all the other goodies you needed to fly. On the B-17 "All AMERICAN" those cables were pretty much the only thing holding her together to bring her home. The B-17 is simply an Amazingly tough Aluminum Aircraft flown by men of Steel. Keep Em coming TJ. TJ3 videos are my favorite part of Fridays.
B-24 crews would brag that they got home faster. The B-17 crews would reply that it was true, but that they got home more often.
@@andrulV2 🤜🏼💥🤛🏼
I have a bit of an Aphrodite B-17. I grew up in Orford and had often heard about a plane that crashed nearby during the war. One day, when I was about 10, I went for an adventure. In the woods towards Sudbourne I found a large crater full of water. I waded in and my foot hit something solid. It was a large bit of riveted aluminum/aluminium, a bit of a plane, yay ! Years later I looked it up on the internet and found out exactly which plane it was. Amazing to own a bit of history.
I noticed the video did not mention that one of the pilots killed in the Aphrodite campaign was Joseph Kennedy Jr. He was the one that Joe Sr. was grooming to be president, and after his death Joe Sr. was forced to switch over to #2 son, JFK.
@@RubyBandUSA Joe Jr was murdered too
Strange question was the headmaster of Orford school at the time Mr Aldous?
@@jonaldous6720 Hello Mate, I waited to speak to my Dad. Mr Aldous was headmaster when my younger sister was there...1985/89....ish ? (we could not remember how old my sister is !). My dad said that Mr Aldous was "...yeah..a very nice chap and did a good job as I remember". Cheers mate.
Is the Jolly Sailor still in Orford? I remember the chap behind the bar had this magnificent white beard and looked for all the world like Father Christmas. I served at RAF Bentwaters/Woodbridge from '82 to '85. I returned to England to live and was just up the beach from you in Aldeburgh. One of the jobs I had was as night watchman at the BBC station on Orfordness. I was on Orfordness the night the hurricane hit. Remember, the one that weatherman Michael Fish said would never happen? Wonder if he still had a job after that. I drove down to the Quay on the ness side of the river, and there wasn't a boat left, just masts sticking up out of the water. Dickey Banftoft, I might be getting that surname wrong, ran the landing craft that brought the BBC crew over from Orford. The morning after the hurricane, I had to take them all to the station via Landrover, down the beach from Aldeburgh. I'm back in the states now, but cherish my years in Suffolk. All the best.
Out of 12,731 B-17 aircraft built, approximately 4,735 were lost during the War. The average of a pilot was 25
The B-17 is also the reason why pre flight checks by civil aviation is used today.
The B-29 helped to refign that when the DC-6 was to become an air transport
I am a pilot and I will support this statement.
I read the same in “The Checklist Manifesto”. A good management book, by the way,
I helped model a B-24 for the IL2 46 game. During my research of its development, I found it hilarious that 'tedious' controls kept gravitating to the co-pilot side. Very early on, the B-17 'optimized' that concept: a few flight instruments on the pilot side, and everything else on the co-pilot side (except for the quadrant of course, which had to be handy for both pilots). The throttle levers were a clever design.
The quality and reliability of this plane is one of reasons I exsist today. Gramps was MSgt, Flight Engineer 8th/12th/15th AAF, 301stBG, 419thSq. 1942-1945
Funny! Never thought of it that way.
TJ3 History, I hope you save each and every one of these stories. They are precious and starting to fade from memory. They need to be preserved for future generations.
We will never forget the B-17 "Texas Raider" that was rammed by a P-63 Airacobra at a Dallas Airshow her tail was clipped completely from her main fuselage I will never forget the video footage of that event rest in peace to the 5 crewman of the B-17 and the pilot of the P-63 and to end on a happier note, happy Thanksgiving y'all
I flew on the Texas Raider at an air show in New Orleans in 2018. It was only a 20 minute hop but it was a fantastic experience. I was very saddened at her loss.
For a tale of tough B-17s read up on "Old 666" in the Pacific. A worn-out B-17E was converted to a self-defending long range recon plane and crew by a crew of misfits. Fifteen Zeroes couldn't shoot it down, although the aircrew was pretty well shot up.
Here is a RUclips video on old 666 ….
ruclips.net/video/6Im086TCu3I/видео.html
Read the book. Those guys were true grit American Patriots! "Mike" Kelly
Yes, great story. History channel covered that in their "long odds" series.
My great uncle was a Luftwaffe pilot who became famous for shooting down these bombers. He flew FW 109 with JG-1 and had 32 bomber kills. It's sad as each one had so many brave crewmen.
I feel privileged to have been able to enter and walk around inside a B-17 a few years ago. I was astounded by how large the aircraft looked parked out on the tarmac, but how claustrophobic it was inside!
In 2012, I did a walk around a B-17 at a local airshow. It was the first time I had seen one in person. A beautiful bird.
I have been inside a Lancaster and can imagine how claustrophobic in can be in a B-17.
My uncle was a tail gunner in a Lancaster. He told me how difficult it was for tail gunners to get the rest of the crew. Crawling over the bomb bay housing was difficult with the plane on the ground. I can only imagine how difficult it would have been with the plane flying.
that space going up to the cockpit can't be much more than a foot wide...too tight for a fatty like me....
i always hated that the confederate air force knuckled under to the p.c. ers and changed their name. like anyone would actually think that the confederate states of america had an air force (besides the observation balloons) the omly part of a b-17 i thought was claustrophobic was the cockpit
@@frankpienkosky5688 Same here, Frank. These guys were a skinny bunch, weren't they? 🙂
Should go have a look inside a Lancaster! out of our three main bombers.Halifax.Stirling.Lancasters was worst one to have to bailout of with many crews perishing as not able to get out of door near rear.
FWIW, I have read a number of reports from Japanese Naval and Army pilots from WWII. Their most feared aircraft was NOT the P-51, the P-40, the P-38, or even the "Whistling Death, the F4-U Corsair, it was the B-17. Used mostly for long range reconnaissance missions, the Japanese pilots grew to fear the airplane that was almost impossible to bring down. When they got their hands on a captured B-17, they were amazed and impressed by the precision of the build, and the overall capabilities, which their own designers could not match.
Especially one in particular, Old 666. Probably the greatest story of survival. It can be found on youtube also.
The F6F Hellcat shot down more Japanese aircraft than any other plane. Just an FYI.
Don't you mean FWIIW?
@@harrylessenger4872 Harry, I do not dispute what you say, I was relating what I had read in TWO separate autobiographies of WWII Japanese pilots, one in the IJN, the other in the Japanese Army. I recall one of the books was called "The Emperor's Eagle", but I confess I do not remember the name of the other book- it has been a long time. The Japanese pilots had GREAT respect for the B-17!
@@Kpar512 I believe you Kirk, the point I was making is that you neglected to mention the most successful U.S. Navy fighter of WWll in the Pacific Theater, after naming the planes that you did. The Mariana Turkey Shoot is a prime example. p.s. My Father was a B-17 pilot flying out of Braintree, England and was wounded during a bombing run over Hamburg.
Being a B-17 fanatic, I already knew all about this. Great video though.
I had the honor of meeting a German fighter pilot once at a convention, and he told the story of how the German pilots HATED going up against B-17s because no matter which way you approached it from, “there was always some DAMNED GUN shooting at you!” Jame staley history buff
My father was lead bombardier for 54 missions on Old Lucky and Raiden Maiden based out of Foggia, part of the Swoose Group under colonel Frank Kurtz. He had great respect for the B17 and its bomb sight.
After the war, Frank Kurtz had a daughter, named her Swoosie.
My mom wasn’t “Rosie the Riveter”, she was “Ruth, the Welder”. She worked on Mare Island, near Oakland, Ca. She was only 17 years old and an orphan. She lived with her brother and his family. She counted herself lucky getting employment and arc welding training.
The B-17's vulnerability to head-on attacks was why the "chin turret" visible in some of your shots was added starting with the B-17G variant.
Actually the chin turret was added to the last few B17Fs, often mistaken with B17Gs ...
I've been a fan of the B-17 for as long as I can remember. I've gone through a couple on static display at airshows. Last year, my family bought me a ride on one for a Father's Day/70th birthday gift. One of the best gifts ever! After she was in the air, we could move about, stopping in the various gun sites...not the belly or tail gunner position. The best was in the nose of it. What an amazing view. Such a great memory.
Do you remember which plane she was? I flew in the Aluminum Overcast years ago.
@@proudamerican183 Me too!
@@oldrogue4247 Mine was in Vacaville California. At the old Nut Tree airport. U?
@@proudamerican183 Wittman Regional Airport (OSH), Oshkosh, Wisconsin. I had bought a ticket for my Dad some years before, but at the last minute, he decided against it.
I asked the EAA - owners and operators of Aluminum Overcast - if there was any chance of a refund, since it was pretty expensive; at least $300+. The said no, but that I could use the ticket at any time in the future. All I had to do was to make a reservation in advance, so a few years later, that is what I did.
@@oldrogue4247 Nice.
My uncle Elvin was a tail Gunner on B-17s, he had terrible PTSD He had a buddy Smith, real screw up, who received the Congressional medal of Honor, with 5,000 men lined up, they couldn't find him, he'd got into trouble, he was on punishment detail peeling potatoes. (Maynard Harrison "Snuffy" Smith was a United States Army Air Forces staff sergeant and aerial gunner aboard a B-17 Flying Fortress bomber in World War II) he too had terrible PTSD!
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maynard_Harrison_Smith I had to look him up !!! What an effort he did in the B17 to keep it flying !!!
I really enjoy your historical videos! Perhaps you can cover the Bell P-39 & P-63 variants. Very unique Planes at the time with nose gear and other interesting configurations. Thanks for the great content!
There was a comment about the amazing landing of a B-17 using just two engines. My father was a WWII B-17 pilot in late '43 to early '44. He told me that on one of his missions he landed his B-17 using a single (inboard) engine at a Spitfire base. The B-17 was in such poor condition that it couldn't take off again. It was partially disassembled and trucked back to their home base. That plane never flew again, its parts used to repair other B-17s.
My Father was a B-17 pilot also, he took 5 pieces of shrapnel in his left knee during a bombing run over Hamburg and spent the rest of the war in an English hospital.
Hangar Queen
Amazing planes. My father has been in charge of restoring one for the past 4-5 years(and helped with multiple others). These aircraft had advanced features for their time.
Uncle “Ski” was the lead navigator in the formation of B-17s arriving at Pearl Harbor December 7th 1941.
He said at first when he didn’t know what was going on he was fine but once the formation started talking fire, he was scared shitless.
He did survive that attack and went on the fly a great many missions and never took a scratch nor did any of his aircraft he was a crewman of.
It was a model-299 that crashed in the early days of this type of aircraft. The model-299 had no tail gun and a different rudder and tail formation that was not as aerodynamic as the latter version of the B-17. As one website put it: "It was the locked condition of the rudder and elevator surface controls
(primarily the latter), which made it impossible for the pilot to
control the airplane." Other than that early incident, the B-17 was a fine and Beautiful aircraft!
got to be pretty agile to swing yourself up into that plane from under its belly...looked pretty cool though...
The B-17 is one of if not the most beautiful planes ever built.
Thanks for the vid and for the time you spent putting it together. It is very much appreciated. Thank you!
Great simulations, perfect narration equals great content. Thank you!
My favorite plane! Would love to see more bomber episodes with specific stories in mind!
Yepp, like the raid on schweinfurt or the raid on leuna
My dad's first cousin flew with the 100th Bomb Group in WWII. He was the co-pilot. His first flight into combat was late January 1945. He did 27 missions before the end of the war.
Boeings B17 has been my favourite WW2 bomber since when as a kid I became aware of allied powers heavy bombers. That was along side the British RAF Lancaster Bomber. I built scale models from plastic kits of both aircraft types. They hung from my bedroom ceiling for years and long past the time I left home to strike out on my own.
I've never built either model again, promising to remedy that drought, yet never have. Videos like this one here along with many others continue to sustain my interest so the thrill has never deserted me.
The addition of the dual turret at the front was a perfect add on but came late when the Luftwaffe was on its last legs I believe. At one point the B-17s were almost unopposed. Can’t fight a war on two fronts. One will suffer. The addition of decent range fighters escorts helped immensely in taking out the Luftwaffe as well. Good video. Thx.
Did you know that a B-17 can be backed up? Not reversible props but by using differential braking and the outboard engines one can walk it backwards.
I never realized that, but you're right!
That's a really cool tidbit. Took me a second to visualize how that would work but it makes sense!
One of the other commentators explained that in detail.
Fortunate and lucky to have been in positions in aviation to assist helping the various groups keeping the warbirds flying. 3 B-17 flights, 2 local and one X country one way. Had to find my way back 300 miles but worth it. I recall at cruise opening the bays and with only a thin cable strung around it, being able to peer down to the ground far below. Loud, shaky, cold, the smell of oil and avgas = heaven.
My father was a B17 bombardier stationed on Sicily.
The pilots had to ditch the aircraft in the Mediterranean. They were told to get out of the plane within 30 seconds of hitting the water before it would start to sink.
Six months later, their command received a letter from the Royal Navy requesting the plane's removal since it was a hazard to navigation .
Love your videos... mix in a few period photos or video and we're talking perfection!!
👌🏽
Great information. I happen to live close to the Commemorative Air Force Museum at Falcon Field in Mesa, Arizona. The B17 Sentimental Journey is based there. When they fly it they go right over my house, looks like I could just reach up and grab it. With the sounds those 4 engines make I can hear it coming from a distance, gives me time to go outside to watch it fly over...Magical...Magnificent...Mesmerizing...could only imagine what it would have been like to see hundreds in the air. Thank You to all of those brave young men of the Greatest Generation who ever lived for their service in WWII.
Those engines are the sound of freedom.
I was fortunate enough to fly as a passenger in the nose of "Sentimental Journey" this past August. It was an amazing experience.
In 1989I was at an air show in Corvallis OR being put on by the CAF. (today it's known as the Commemorative Air Force. Back then it was the Confederate Air Force). Among the war birds flying in the show that day were several of the AT6 Texans (modified to look like Japanese aircraft) that were used in the used in the movies Tora! Tora! Tora! and the Final Countdown. There was also a B17, which turned out to be the very same B17 used in the one wheel landing you showed in the film clip. One of the pilots explained they had a switch installed in the cockpit that when switched could disable the right landing gear. Later in the show, the B17 took to the air did some flybys and then demonstrated the one wheel landing scene for the crowd.
If you watch the landing sequence in the movie carefully, you can easily see the switch from the clear Hollywood camera work of the B17 touching one wheel, and rest of the sequence where the grainy 8mm footage of a battle damaged B17 makes a landing with only one wheel down and then spins out as the wing tip hit. That footage was shot in England during WWII and has been used in many documentaries and shows.
I remember once reading a story somewhere of a B-17 flying itself and landing at it's home base after the entire crew bailed out thinking she was going down. The entire crew was surprised to see her sitting there waiting for them when they finally got back to base 3 days later
Jimmy Steward said the B-24 was just as good as the B-17 but the B-17 had a better press agent.
Unfortunately I have never had the pleasure of experiencing a real B-17, but it was the 1st 4 engined bomber I ever made, back in the day when I was a model aircraft nut, I think it is still floating around somewhere at my parents home.
Another fact about the B17: For much of WW2 they were prone to spontaneously explode in flight. The cause was eventually traced to the upper turret ring rubbing against a crew oxygen pipe, causing leaks of the highly inflammable gas.
Aside from the genuine
fact that oxygen is not an "inflammable (sic) gas" this isn't a fact.
Diana Powe: You failed chemistry then! I'm embarrassed for you. Apparently your grasp of English is somewhat dubious as well.
Oxygen is NOT flammable. It supports combustion. Throw a lit cigarette into a can full of 100% oxygen and the cigarette will practically explode like a fire ball. With the Apollo 1 space craft they used 100% oxygen at 4 psi. When a spark ignited something flammable, the oxygen supported the combustion so much that the entire interior went up in a flash fire. HYDROGEN is highly flammable which is why the Hindenberg burned so well. The oxygen in the air around it supported the combustion.
@@daveintheblackhills282 Indeed. My mistake. However leaking oxygen from the crew oxygen pipe running beneath the upper gun turret supported catastrophic explosions in B17 aircraft during flight. There is a detailed video on RUclips explaining the fault. Hydrogen does require oxygen in order to burn. During WW1 British aircraft could riddle a Zeppelin with bullets with no significant effect to the buoyancy of the airship, holes being patched.. Hence the incendiary bullet was developed. However, guns loaded only with such rounds were still not causing the airships to burn. It was then realized that insufficient oxygen was reaching hydrogen in the gas bags through the holes made by the incendiary rounds. Eventually a successful tactic of riddling the Zeppelin gas bags with standard bullets and then attacking with incendiary rounds was developed. The leaking hydrogen having sufficiently mixed with oxygen to allow combustion by the time of a second strafing with incendiary rounds.
Inflammable mean not part of the 3 pillars of fire. Also means not flamable....Not flaminable....
My grandfather, Lt. James Lewis Tyree, Flu is a vomitere in 50 missions in a B 17 GO over north Africa and Germany and Italy and then flew as a bombardier for another 50 missions in a B 29 in Korea
The first accident was not a mechanical failure, it was the failure to remove control locks from the aircraft before flying. We had to do the same thing when I was flying an old airplane in the 70s.
A Captain Kurtz flew an early B-17 in the Pacific Theater transporting the brass from Australia to Hawaii and back. The crew named it Swoose since it flew gracefully like a swan while looking like a goose. Kurtz had the mechanics to "hot rod" the engines so the aircraft could fly faster so managed to set a non-stop speed record flying from Australia to Hawaii which didn't amuse the brass on board. After the war Kurtz had a family where they named a daughter Swoozie in honor of his B-17. She became an actress in several comedy films. She was the tour guide at the Alamo that told Pee Wee Herman that the Alamo didn't have a basement.
Swoozie Kurtz yes an actress. Thanks for the back story.
Whenever you have an iconic plane like the B-17, there are always a few planes that it beat out for the job. I would like to see some info on the runners up, and why they fell short of the b17.
This is a very well researched insight on the b 17 I've heared. Amazing time of warfare and technology.
This is all so interesting! I would like to see articles about b-24 liberators and p-38 lightening as well.
I went through a B17 a few years ago with a ball turret gunner...not only was it much smaller than I thought, each 50 cal had only 900 rounds of ammo. 50 cal ammo is heavy...the weight was needed for the bombs. As a former Navy P3 Aircrewman (Vietnam) , I was amazed at: not pressurized, not big, well below zero at 30K feet; electrified suits to keep warm, etc., etc. Those guys had cojones the size of melons~!
These are interesting, but not exactly things I never knew. I knew them all, and was surprised that you didn't mention re: Aphrodite, that President John F. Kennedy's older brother was killed on an Aphrodite mission. That's fairly obscure, but Aphrodite isn't at all. That, and the use of video game B-17s instead of actual footage (and B-17s often marked or equipped wrongly for where they were used) further made me feel this was a lot like clickbait, rather than really obscure mystery facts I might have wanted to learn about.
That's true about Joseph Kennedy Jr but he wasn't in a B17 Aphrodite nor was he actually a part of Aphrodite, instead he was in the Navy's version of the program called Anvil and the aircraft they used were the Navy version of the B24 called the PB4Y-1.
I agree. I also don't think that enemy tactics in dealing with a plane counts as a little known fact about the plane itself. Also watching all four engines start up at once was kind of funny,
@@charlesharris9692
When I saw all 4 engine's starting at once the first thing I thought is that the bomb bay must be full of batteries.
Most of these "five things you didn't know" videos are click bait. Joe Kennedy's demise demonstrates that often we know more than the video producer...
@@dukecraig2402 ...they used inertial starters.......
great vid; thanks!
my favorite aircraft of all time.