Dear Jeff, I just joined NICA and I won my first race last weekend. I just wanted to say thank you because if I had dent seen your add on RUclips I wouldn’t have been interested in mtbing so thank you.
freeholeless50 tv yeah combined you do definitely notice that there is a bit less room between the seat and cockpit, and a overall more upright seating position. I’ve compensated a bit by sliding my sadle a bit more to the back!
I have done exactly the same & popping the front wheel up is so much easier. Much less effort when obstacles are close together & as you say the stability is well improved.
I was running 20mm bars , then i went to a 35mm bars PLUS raising my stem 20mm. I realised i could climb standing up without my rear wheel spinning out . Also i could feel the bike under me so much more , as in i could feel my bike rotating around the BB and the rear suspension feels so much better 👍🏻
Ditto! 55 y.o. and 30mm rise. The increase in comfort means longer rides, plus I think the higher bar shifts the weight bias rearward and seems to help me to pivot the bike around tight, low speed turns better.
@@jimanastasio192 Yes! Thank you! Exactly. When I get a riser-stem for one of my hardtails (for many of the SAME reasons you stated) they look at me like I'm putting something where it doesn't belong. I was a terror when I was very young, but I STILL want to enjoy beating the crap out of my bike in the dirt and the woods, it's just that my body tells me it's no longer a tough as the bike frame. I have a prolonged endurance when dirt riding since I've added the riser stem and/or bars to my bikes. A LOT more. And no more back, shoulder, hand, neck fatigue. Can you believe it? All that practically cured with a minor adjustment/addition. Hey I've noticed too, that tight control as you stated feels better to me as well. WHY do these "trends" always come from what's scientifically "proven" on the professional race circuits? Recreational & novice riders make up the overwhelming bulk of the industry sales. I have NO NEED to punish my body in order to shave 2/10ths of a second off my time, so THAT part of the science is useless to recreational riders like myself. I still can't understand why these bikes distributed for sales to a wide variety of physical body types don't have the steering tubes cut just a bit longer from the factory. You can ALWAYS have a few mil's or so cut OFF, but you can't ADD any material. If that were the case I'd put all the spacers under the factory stem and be good-to-go without having to customize the bars and stem JUST TO ENJOY a new bike. I'm glad you you said what you did. LOL! You got me on a rant--it's only because I've wondered about this for many years. Wanting to get this $5G bike for the spring and struggling with what the solution will be for the rise issue. Maybe go w/Deity riser bars anyway, but they SHOULD cut the steering tubes longer from the factory for consumer distribution models. ~JSV
Old skool cat here. That's the best explanation of bar types and what they do that I've seen to date. The only aspect that I'd differ on is riser bars being a recent trend. Folks were talking about it in the late '90s too.
Same here. I learned some things from this video. I went and tried a bike at a local shop and while the frame was definitely the right size for me in terms of saddle position and my ride style, the reach was a tad much. I ended up building out a custom version of that bike through a shop called Fanatik and specced more spacers, shorter stem, and higher rise bar. We’ll see if that works for me. I’ve struggled with low back pain for years so I’m hoping I nail it. Bike arrives soon.
I got a bike fit this year, where they put me on a slammed stem. I also got some pointers from a coach, who preaches dropping your chin and chest closer to the bars when descending for better control. Both completely contradicted what I though I knew about bikes. Basically I've been told, if you are flexible enough to drop your front end, its a benefit for both climbing and descending. I don't pretend to be in tune with my bike enough to know what works best, nor do I suggest I know what I'm talking about. But I just wanted to throw a wrench into the conversation and say there are different schools of thought on this! I always appreciate the videos Jeff! If I didn't get stung with duty buying products from the States, I'd be on your site all the time.
That guy must be an XC racer or road racer. When descending, you need to get back behind your seat. It's way easier to get back when you don't start off leaning forward, not to mention how much easier it is to hop big stuff.
@@mikeschneider4274 I know where you're coming from. That was my exact mentality too. New age coaching preach get low, instead of get back on the steeps. You might throw your hips back for a half second through a hole or off a drop, but keeping your elbows bent & hips over the saddle is a more active position. It's taken me a summer to start to get comfortable with it. I don't have any great videos/examples to recommend, but check out some DH and enduro racing. They'll be going faster through the steeps than I ever will, and you won't see straight arms or the ass off the back wheel.
Good Vid. I'm 197cm/6'5" tall and run 50mm riser bars in the quest for better stack height. I'm still below where I need to be by at least 30mm just to get my hands level with my seat. I'm running factory cut steerer (too short) with all spacers under the stem as well as a longer stem with 8 degree rise in an effort for more stack height. The issue is that bike manufacturers do not make the frame size geometry changes proportionate to the change in rider height as you go up the frame sizes. A sample of manufacturer frame geometry shows that small frames are for 155cm riders and XL frames for up to 197cm riders ideally. This is a 27% change in rider height, compared to an average change in stack height on most manufacturer's frames of less than 2%. It's therefore pretty obvious that a taller rider will need to go looking for more stack height by use of spacers, bar rise, steerer length and stems with a rise. To put it in perspective, the stack height on XL frames need to be at least 150mm higher than current geometries to be at the same proportional change to a small frame as that to the persons height. (This is obviously an oversimplification but you get the point.) Don't believe me?. Take a look at different bike seat heights compared to handlebar height on different size frames and you will note that on trail bikes, almost without exception the XL frames seat height will be significantly above the bars and for smaller frames the seat height will be level with or below the bars. In my experience the difference in handling and comfort as you increase stack height towards the more ideal level is significant, and in my case helps me to improve my speed a lot.
But for road bikes the bike fitters recommend a higher difference between Bar and seat than for smaller people. I think the rule that on mtb seat and bar should be Level no matter S or XXL is just wrong.
agree !! with my 190cm 92 inseem it still feels small on a xl my seat is higher then my bars and indeed this makes a traibike feels like a xc bike.. i have gone from 30mm rise to 75 mm and now i feel more confident on little jumps.. thats what you want from a trailbike.
I had this problem before. Got new bike Nicolai Eboxx its super big. fox38 stearer tube is uncut and no place for spacers, also running 60mm rise. Top of the bige is huge and fits me, im 203cm
Another thing that you can do, which is what I just did, is moving the position of my bars in regards to rotation. I got a Giant Trance 29 and it has Contact bars with 20mm rise which is pretty normal. The handlebars felt a little weird compared to my hardtail setup. I noticed that the bars were slanted back and down, and I was going to get riser bars, then I decided just to rotate them "forward" in the stem. I don't know how it was supposed to be stock, but everything now lines up better, even the little stickers that tell you the specs about the bars. My bars now flare up and don't feel as cramped in the cockpit. I don't know if this is "kosher" or there will be any negative effects, but it feels a lot better. This video sure does a better job than the others on RUclips as to the reasons why you would want to change your setup, kudos Jeff.
Love my 40mm bars on my Commencal. I'm doing hardly any climbing since it's my bike park / around town rig so I love the 40mm for control on the descents / jumps and for a more comfortable posture in general.
Crazy huge help!! I'm 44 and have been out of the sport for awhile. Buying/building my first trail full sus and I have a bad lower back, this helped me decide exactly how to set it up! Thanks Jeff!
Super useful video. I have a spinal cord injury which has effected my core strength. Getting a levo and swapping bars and spacers has made it possible for me to ride again :)
I ride with 50mm riser bars, one of the benefits not mentioned is comfort in the air on big hits. Much easier to throw whips too. Feels more like a bmx than a xc or road bike.
That Renthal is so flippin stiff- easily the most painful bar i've owned (and a few of my friends feel the same). I ended up swapping mine out, was just too sore after any aggressive trail.
@@raheemgahelable nope. I get along with their aluminium bars. Its the carbon ones that broke me :) Btw, check out oneup's stiffness/compliance test chart. Renthal was indeed the least compliant, which reassured what i was feeling.
@@finkelmann huh! Interesting though. I've the opposite experience with my carbon 35 Renthal. My friend got the same version aluminum, and it felt " harsh" a little on my elbow and shoulders. OneUp makes good one and it has good reviews.., also, the durability of the Renthal carbon is pretty amazing though.
It would have been good to also include changes in stem length in this overall discussion as it's an integral part that affects body position just like high rise bars and stem spacers...
That Yeti at 2:05 is amazing! I would take that bike over any " new age " one in a heart beat!!! Somethings are never meant to change. The geometry and feel of that style of frame is second to none!! I have ridden new and older and I always go back to this design!
I'm running a Spank Spike 800 Vibrocore, 30mm Rise, 780mm Width with a 40mm stem. Sweet spot for me. Been running risers on my bikes since the 90's when they first began to hit the market - I'd get people come up to me and ask 'What's up with that handlebar?" Being from an MX background, risers were inevitable for mountain bikes.....
This video has helped me out massively. When I bought my Sight A1 I was right in between size Medium and Large. My instinct said get the Medium but only the Large was in stock. I do trail riding, jumps, climbs and down hill but always get a sore back on steep climbs, struggle to lift the front and always feel I made a mistake on choosing a size Large. This video has really solved my problems and helped me out heaps. Thanks from 🇦🇺 ✌️
I love how WC puts out so much content and also really good content even though their following is relatively small. Much respect, love your guys videos
Love WWC videos like this so much, just got another riser bar. I also think the trend of risers is due to dropper posts being prolific, and encouraging people to actually climb at the highest optimal point, hence makes sense to bring bars up too... But yeah as you said Jeff there's a lot of factors, also you said intergalactic cycling association, total paradigm shift, then a hair cut mid video, next level
9:00 'Spacers vs high-rise' just answered all my questions and changed my life. I am 177cm, i.e. right between medium and large but larges are too big and spacers on my medium feel cramped. High rise will change everything.
Hi dude. I'm running a 680mm TOSEEK carbon Rise Bar (18mm horizontally raised, 5 degrees backward) with TOSEEK 80mm (raised 6 degrees) carbon Stem on my 26inch MTB. It's really nice and I really enjoyed it. 😉
1.Props to your editor. The comedy clips were gold. 2. Love this channel. I always learn something new. Thanks to everyone for your quality work here. Cheers
I run a slammed 35mm stem, 80mm rise Deity bars, and a 150mm Yari on my San Quentin and it’s perfect for me. I’m 5’9.5” with a long torso and short legs. I ride trails in Texas so mostly flat/ flowy stuff with jumps and features. I love it.
@@thearoom I'm not fast but don't notice a difference between a riser ad a flat bar except the riser is more comfortable so I ride with that little more confidence
I am 5'7" with a 26" inseam. My arms are short too so I wanted a high rise bar with the desire to roll the bar back some combined with a 35mm stem. I also replaced the standard aluminum fork on my bike with the carbon fiber fork of the more expensive model. The bike is a little older so the fork was available at a discount. I cut it for a few more spacers, but was warned not to go to crazy with spacers. It turned out that my bike had come with a 40mm rise bar so the new bar only made a difference in that it was wider. I ended up going back to the original bar because I was worried about putting a bar end though one of my knees in a crash.
Coming from bmx riding, I changed the original bar and stem of my trek remedy. Shorter stem 60mm rise Bar. Best decision. Easyier bunny hops and manuals. Confident on steep trails. No back pain. Some kind of bmx feeling on trails ❤
Love this channel. I get more thoughtful and experienced advice than most anywhere else. Appreciate you doing it. I’ve ordered several things from the website and your prices are on point. Great customer service too.
Easy way to look at it. Downhill on Gnarly terrain, I want the best chance of not going face first into some rocks. Uphill, I could care f'n less, the speed is so slow the worst case scenario is I have to walk. Downhill, the worst case scenario is I eat rocks with my face. I will take the higher rise bars any day.
Nice videos! You might also want to mention "sweep" in this video (seeing how much some of these rise bar sweep back at the grips at the 10:00 min mark). I alleviated a lot of hand numbness by rotating my rise bar in the clamp and moving that sweep position to a more natural hand position for me.
Go for it! I recently changed from a nearly flat Thompson Ti bar to a high rise sq labs bar. Also I got the shortest Renthal stem available for better maneuverability. The riding position got so much more comfortable and I’m way more confident on the bike! Even while ascending, but I guess that comes from the massive 16 deg backsweep of the SQ Labs bar. It gives me so much more power over the front of my bike, since my arm and shoulder position is now perfectly aligned. It almost feels like cheating! The only thing I regret, is that I haven’t discovered this earlier. From now on all my bikes will get the SQ Labs bars with the most backsweep and rise. I can’t believe I’ll say this, but the upgrades bars made more difference then getting a new fork. The level of control I gained is just insane. Someone who never tried such a „extreme“(considered by many in the bike industry) backsweep and a little higher rise won’t believe it. Now just a few more degrees of upsweep would be the next good step in the right direction.
I understand your explanation about how adding spacers would reduce the reach. But can I further reduce my reach by simply rotating one of these high rise bars back slightly?
Rotating bars back makes a more aggresive angle on the bars. Many riders put riser bars on to rotate forward and reduce pressure/ improve angle on the wrists/hands
I didn't notice the hair, but I did catch the NICA mix up. I'm a MTB coach through NICA in Oregon and it's amazing what all they do for getting kids on bikes, setting up races, and encouraging them to push themselves.
If only things were as simple as you put them here... From my experience with a 29” bike with a 170mm fork, and coming from a long period with 26” bikes, I felt great with a zero rise bar and zero spacers on top of a flat headset. And this had nothing to do with how steep the terrain was. The factor that matters in that regard is stem length, and with a 31mm stem the fear of going over the bars was non-existent. I have been trying other setups more recently, including having the bar 40mm higher, and confirming that. I get no more confidence from a higher bar. Besides, the ability to pedal with a higher bar is not reduced, but increased. This is because even though the reach is reduced with more spacers, the rider area distance, that is, the distance from the bottom bracket to the grips, is increased. This is actually the true “reach”, more than the horizontal reach that only takes one dimension into consideration. Your rider area becomes more spacious whether you use a handlebar with more rise or raise the stem. Now, the thing about bar height for me is how much weight do you want your arms to support. I feel good bearing more weight on the arms and feel that I can control the front better. You’re riding more like a four legged animal, and with a higher bar you’re more “bipedal”. The “attack” ability is not influenced by this, though. So what is influenced? That is the question that I’ve been trying to answer. A more upright ride is less active, so one might become less tired, but I also miss that “action”. The mechanics are different, the way of working with the bike is different. Riding more upright is a bit “plainer” but I’ll try it a bit more to see if I get used to it because I like the increased rider area distance.
I want to raise the bars on my Tero to ease the pressure on my wrists and lower back (I’m 62). Having watched this I’m deffo going for replacement bars. Great video by the way 👍
As I get older, I have raised the handlebars to save my back. Now I am 66 years old and I no longer cycle the most challenging forest trails, but there are many nice forest roads here in Norway with lots of nature right outside my door.
Depends on your Stack height, also, you forgot to mention that when you have more rise in your handlebar, it affect your effective stem length, in fact it’s the equivalent to add spacer and put un longer stem to keep the same reach... so basically, start with your geo, and than adjust according to that
wow thanks for the clip Jeff, seriously that was really informative, i dont like the look of high rise bars, the next handle bars i want to get are Enve and they come in a 10, 25 and 35, so I'm going to get the 25mm rise one, my current ones are 20mm so knowing that a higher rise bar will help with the DH stuff makes me more happy to go with the 25mm
I noticed “intergalactic” and I’m disappointed that’s not the actual name. Going to pick up those PNW bars in the next couple weeks. I have never heard a bad thing said about them. I love the dropper i have from them.
Love the riser bars! Never understood why they put 50mm worth of spacers under the stem and use a flat bar. I run a 5mm spacer and 50 mm Deity riser bar
I’m running the PNW range bars now on my trek x-caliber and I love them. Makes my shoulders feel more comfortable because there is more space to spread my arms out.
I'm 49 years old, I've been on a high protein low calorie diet for 5 months and I've lost 60 pounds. Im going to get more serious about riding bikes as im feeling better. I dont have back problems but im not as agile as a 20 year old and I feel more stable with my upper body more upright. Obviously im not the rider your going to meet on the trail. So considerations of uphill, downhill aren't really an issue for me. Thank you for a great video, gives me ideas of what I'll change on my bike.
I didn't know it ever left. I've always run a higher rise bar and never noticed a reduction of fellow "high bar" riders at the trails. That's at least 23 years of "trend" as far as I know.
I got a BMX 8.5" high rise for my fatbike, that's exactly what I needed. I'm a big fat guy trying to get into cycling and don't need to be hunched over while I ride.
Awesome, very informative. Another important point is bar width. If your bike came with 780mm bars and you put 800mm bars on, this will decrease your reach. It's only 10mm each side but makes all the difference.
Reaaally helpful video. I've had bad lower backpack for years on my bike, and I've always found it hard to do the steep stuff. Considering my bars are flat it's probably time for a raised bar!
I am considering high rise bars not for climbing or descending, but to better fit my overall body position. I am 6'6", and while saddle height is usually no issue, bar height is not adjustable and usually laid out for someone in the middle of the frame size's target audience (where I am on the extreme end). Meaning that I am - at least in theory - leaning forward more than would be recommended for a recreational rider like myself. Did a bikefit with my new fullsus recently with a physical therapist, and we found my handlebars were about 30-40mm lower than they should be. But as with most things, instead of focusing on a single metric the overall system must be considered, and despite the somewhat low handlebar we did conclude that my CoG was nicely above the bottom bracket, so the first order of business is to get some long-ish rides in. If I get a sore back, we need to add a riser bar.
Awesome video and at great explanation. Im not looking at changing my factory handlebar bars for but im definitely educated about them now if I ever want to change them.
how about adding a stem with a higher rise? I like the look of my bars' rise and sweep. I'd like to take a little pressure off my hands, though, with higher grips
![Seungmin "그렇게, 천천히, 우리(As we are)" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/kAzmhLHePqU/mqdefault.jpg)
What rise handlebars do you prefer?
15mm
35mm
I put bmx Bars on my bike and use spacers to fit them in the stem. It's really compfortable. Everybody should do that
40
-35mm
I appreciate a corporate company that isn't afraid to have fun with it's video edits, awesome
Hilarious clips. "Doc said i need a backinotomy" lol
Well thanks! But we're not really a "corporate company" but rather a couple dozen goofballs selling bike parts 😅
Compliments to your editor. “Ok. This slip-up needs what? Yeah, goat lips!” Brilliant.
@@WorldwideCyclery Keep doing what you do.
You're informative and fun.
Stay away of that Woke garbage.
They are #1 at fun vids 🤙
I really liked the freeze frame comparison shots to demonstrate the affect different rise bars have on a riders body position. Great video!
Dear Jeff,
I just joined NICA and I won my first race last weekend. I just wanted to say thank you because if I had dent seen your add on RUclips I wouldn’t have been interested in mtbing so thank you.
Can I just say that from a purely OCD perspective, I was immediately VERY pleased that you were perfectly centered between the shelves
NICA: national inter-scholastic cycling association
NICA to Jeff: National intergalactic cycling association 8:37
Haha check 10:58 got ya 😉
Yup. Noticed immediately, but assumed intentional. Sarcasm confirmed!
@@bikeste In SoCal, they've embraced intergalactic at times.
Worldwide Cyclery haha you got me can’t assume anything with your scripts
I read this before I got to that part of the video, but still couldn't stop chuckling when he just kept going like he didn't realize what was said xD
Recently went to 35 mil rise from 10 in combination with a 35 mil stem instead of 50, jumping and rough downhill became much more stable!
What about your reach, my stumpjumper already has a short reach did you notice a difference?
oooooo good to know. Been thinking about a handlebar upgrade from my 10mm rise al bar and i mostly ride downhill
freeholeless50 tv yeah combined you do definitely notice that there is a bit less room between the seat and cockpit, and a overall more upright seating position. I’ve compensated a bit by sliding my sadle a bit more to the back!
I think you could have saved a lot of money trying some spacers first - at least if your steerer tube isn't cut down too much.
I have done exactly the same & popping the front wheel up is so much easier. Much less effort when obstacles are close together & as you say the stability is well improved.
Shredding the 80mm rise Deity Bars on my 2020 Nukeproof scout 290 expert. Brings my bike to life.
Just ordered these, can't wait
I was running 20mm bars , then i went to a 35mm bars PLUS raising my stem 20mm.
I realised i could climb standing up without my rear wheel spinning out .
Also i could feel the bike under me so much more , as in i could feel my bike rotating around the BB and the rear suspension feels so much better 👍🏻
As an old dude, I can say I definitely prefer a more upright riding position! OWWW MY NECK AND MY BACK!!!
age 55 myself and 30 mm rise
Ditto! 55 y.o. and 30mm rise. The increase in comfort means longer rides, plus I think the higher bar shifts the weight bias rearward and seems to help me to pivot the bike around tight, low speed turns better.
Age 13 already my back and neck hurts
@@jimanastasio192 Yes! Thank you! Exactly. When I get a riser-stem for one of my hardtails (for many of the SAME reasons you stated) they look at me like I'm putting something where it doesn't belong. I was a terror when I was very young, but I STILL want to enjoy beating the crap out of my bike in the dirt and the woods, it's just that my body tells me it's no longer a tough as the bike frame. I have a prolonged endurance when dirt riding since I've added the riser stem and/or bars to my bikes. A LOT more. And no more back, shoulder, hand, neck fatigue. Can you believe it? All that practically cured with a minor adjustment/addition. Hey I've noticed too, that tight control as you stated feels better to me as well.
WHY do these "trends" always come from what's scientifically "proven" on the professional race circuits? Recreational & novice riders make up the overwhelming bulk of the industry sales. I have NO NEED to punish my body in order to shave 2/10ths of a second off my time, so THAT part of the science is useless to recreational riders like myself. I still can't understand why these bikes distributed for sales to a wide variety of physical body types don't have the steering tubes cut just a bit longer from the factory. You can ALWAYS have a few mil's or so cut OFF, but you can't ADD any material. If that were the case I'd put all the spacers under the factory stem and be good-to-go without having to customize the bars and stem JUST TO ENJOY a new bike.
I'm glad you you said what you did. LOL! You got me on a rant--it's only because I've wondered about this for many years. Wanting to get this $5G bike for the spring and struggling with what the solution will be for the rise issue. Maybe go w/Deity riser bars anyway, but they SHOULD cut the steering tubes longer from the factory for consumer distribution models.
~JSV
51 and I use a 35mm rise bar
Old skool cat here. That's the best explanation of bar types and what they do that I've seen to date. The only aspect that I'd differ on is riser bars being a recent trend. Folks were talking about it in the late '90s too.
This couldn't come at a better time. I'm setting up my cockpit better and I was just doing research on this topic. Good stuff, man.
Same here. I learned some things from this video. I went and tried a bike at a local shop and while the frame was definitely the right size for me in terms of saddle position and my ride style, the reach was a tad much. I ended up building out a custom version of that bike through a shop called Fanatik and specced more spacers, shorter stem, and higher rise bar. We’ll see if that works for me. I’ve struggled with low back pain for years so I’m hoping I nail it. Bike arrives soon.
I got a bike fit this year, where they put me on a slammed stem. I also got some pointers from a coach, who preaches dropping your chin and chest closer to the bars when descending for better control. Both completely contradicted what I though I knew about bikes. Basically I've been told, if you are flexible enough to drop your front end, its a benefit for both climbing and descending.
I don't pretend to be in tune with my bike enough to know what works best, nor do I suggest I know what I'm talking about. But I just wanted to throw a wrench into the conversation and say there are different schools of thought on this! I always appreciate the videos Jeff! If I didn't get stung with duty buying products from the States, I'd be on your site all the time.
You should experiment with spacers on bottom of the stem. You’d be surprised how much easier it is to pull up on the bars when descending.
That guy must be an XC racer or road racer. When descending, you need to get back behind your seat. It's way easier to get back when you don't start off leaning forward, not to mention how much easier it is to hop big stuff.
@@mikeschneider4274 I know where you're coming from. That was my exact mentality too. New age coaching preach get low, instead of get back on the steeps. You might throw your hips back for a half second through a hole or off a drop, but keeping your elbows bent & hips over the saddle is a more active position. It's taken me a summer to start to get comfortable with it. I don't have any great videos/examples to recommend, but check out some DH and enduro racing. They'll be going faster through the steeps than I ever will, and you won't see straight arms or the ass off the back wheel.
I never considered stem spacers affecting reach. Thanks for the insight.
I'm Commander Shepard and this is my favorite MTB channel on the Citadel.
Good Vid. I'm 197cm/6'5" tall and run 50mm riser bars in the quest for better stack height. I'm still below where I need to be by at least 30mm just to get my hands level with my seat. I'm running factory cut steerer (too short) with all spacers under the stem as well as a longer stem with 8 degree rise in an effort for more stack height. The issue is that bike manufacturers do not make the frame size geometry changes proportionate to the change in rider height as you go up the frame sizes. A sample of manufacturer frame geometry shows that small frames are for 155cm riders and XL frames for up to 197cm riders ideally. This is a 27% change in rider height, compared to an average change in stack height on most manufacturer's frames of less than 2%. It's therefore pretty obvious that a taller rider will need to go looking for more stack height by use of spacers, bar rise, steerer length and stems with a rise. To put it in perspective, the stack height on XL frames need to be at least 150mm higher than current geometries to be at the same proportional change to a small frame as that to the persons height. (This is obviously an oversimplification but you get the point.) Don't believe me?. Take a look at different bike seat heights compared to handlebar height on different size frames and you will note that on trail bikes, almost without exception the XL frames seat height will be significantly above the bars and for smaller frames the seat height will be level with or below the bars. In my experience the difference in handling and comfort as you increase stack height towards the more ideal level is significant, and in my case helps me to improve my speed a lot.
Yes! This is my problem too and I am just 184cm tall vith very long legs. So I am sitting on my trail bike like XC profi racer :)
Bombtrack Beyond adv + ....660mm Stack XL
But for road bikes the bike fitters recommend a higher difference between Bar and seat than for smaller people. I think the rule that on mtb seat and bar should be Level no matter S or XXL is just wrong.
agree !! with my 190cm 92 inseem it still feels small on a xl my seat is higher then my bars and indeed this makes a traibike feels like a xc bike.. i have gone from 30mm rise to 75 mm and now i feel more confident on little jumps.. thats what you want from a trailbike.
I had this problem before. Got new bike Nicolai Eboxx its super big. fox38 stearer tube is uncut and no place for spacers, also running 60mm rise. Top of the bige is huge and fits me, im 203cm
Another thing that you can do, which is what I just did, is moving the position of my bars in regards to rotation. I got a Giant Trance 29 and it has Contact bars with 20mm rise which is pretty normal.
The handlebars felt a little weird compared to my hardtail setup. I noticed that the bars were slanted back and down, and I was going to get riser bars, then I decided just to rotate them "forward" in the stem. I don't know how it was supposed to be stock, but everything now lines up better, even the little stickers that tell you the specs about the bars.
My bars now flare up and don't feel as cramped in the cockpit. I don't know if this is "kosher" or there will be any negative effects, but it feels a lot better. This video sure does a better job than the others on RUclips as to the reasons why you would want to change your setup, kudos Jeff.
Love my 40mm bars on my Commencal. I'm doing hardly any climbing since it's my bike park / around town rig so I love the 40mm for control on the descents / jumps and for a more comfortable posture in general.
Crazy huge help!! I'm 44 and have been out of the sport for awhile. Buying/building my first trail full sus and I have a bad lower back, this helped me decide exactly how to set it up! Thanks Jeff!
What rise did you go with?
@@ibby81ae I went with a 40mm huge help!!
Yeah I'm 40 now and back always kills after a days ride. Any brand recommendations?
@@ibby81ae I went with renthal but there are a ton of good ones
Super useful video. I have a spinal cord injury which has effected my core strength. Getting a levo and swapping bars and spacers has made it possible for me to ride again :)
I ride with 50mm riser bars, one of the benefits not mentioned is comfort in the air on big hits. Much easier to throw whips too. Feels more like a bmx than a xc or road bike.
40mm Renthal FatBar carbon 35 with 3 spacers under my stem, and I'll never look back 🤘🤘
That Renthal is so flippin stiff- easily the most painful bar i've owned (and a few of my friends feel the same). I ended up swapping mine out, was just too sore after any aggressive trail.
@@finkelmann are you talking about the aluminum version?
@@raheemgahelable nope. I get along with their aluminium bars. Its the carbon ones that broke me :)
Btw, check out oneup's stiffness/compliance test chart. Renthal was indeed the least compliant, which reassured what i was feeling.
@@finkelmann huh! Interesting though. I've the opposite experience with my carbon 35 Renthal. My friend got the same version aluminum, and it felt " harsh" a little on my elbow and shoulders. OneUp makes good one and it has good reviews.., also, the durability of the Renthal carbon is pretty amazing though.
@@finkelmann I feel the same way, my fatbar 35 carbon bars feel extremely stiff, im definitely switching back to alloy on my next bike.
It would have been good to also include changes in stem length in this overall discussion as it's an integral part that affects body position just like high rise bars and stem spacers...
8:37 "National Intergalactic cycling organization"? riding on the moon!
Check 10:58 got ya 😁
Jumps are much easier at 1/6 gravity.
That Yeti at 2:05 is amazing! I would take that bike over any " new age " one in a heart beat!!! Somethings are never meant to change. The geometry and feel of that style of frame is second to none!! I have ridden new and older and I always go back to this design!
I have that model or close to it. 92 Yeti Arc. I might sell it soon if you're interested.
@@firstgatetuber what is the frame material?
@@battistaverardi1240 Aluminum.
@@firstgatetuber but which type of aluminum? 7005 or 6061?
@@battistaverardi1240 not sure but it's the Easton aluminum. Shoot me a DM and I can send you photos.
I'm running a Spank Spike 800 Vibrocore, 30mm Rise, 780mm Width with a 40mm stem. Sweet spot for me. Been running risers on my bikes since the 90's when they first began to hit the market - I'd get people come up to me and ask 'What's up with that handlebar?" Being from an MX background, risers were inevitable for mountain bikes.....
This video has helped me out massively.
When I bought my Sight A1 I was right in between size Medium and Large.
My instinct said get the Medium but only the Large was in stock.
I do trail riding, jumps, climbs and down hill but always get a sore back on steep climbs, struggle to lift the front and always feel I made a mistake on choosing a size Large.
This video has really solved my problems and helped me out heaps.
Thanks from 🇦🇺 ✌️
I’m the same on my Roscoe 7 what all did you do exactly
Just ordered 35mm rise oneup bars! Can't wait!
The oneup bars are rad!
Where did you order them from?? I can’t find them anywhere 😓
@@Dangeruss718 thelostco.com, looks like they have the 20mm rise right now
Best bars everrrrrrrr!
I like the bit with the goat. Brightened up my day.
I love how WC puts out so much content and also really good content even though their following is relatively small. Much respect, love your guys videos
No other RUclips channel I sub to. Makes me laugh more consistently than yours
Love the humor
Oh yeah and that sweet sweet free info
Love WWC videos like this so much, just got another riser bar. I also think the trend of risers is due to dropper posts being prolific, and encouraging people to actually climb at the highest optimal point, hence makes sense to bring bars up too... But yeah as you said Jeff there's a lot of factors, also you said intergalactic cycling association, total paradigm shift, then a hair cut mid video, next level
Thank you for all the advice I just installed a Deity 50mm raiser bar on my Foes Fxr and rides like a dream
My homie has a 500mm rise on his Lowrider.
thats a lotta bar
Ahahaha
i use about 200mm rise on my hill climb klunker
Lol they use steering wheels
YES
9:00 'Spacers vs high-rise' just answered all my questions and changed my life. I am 177cm, i.e. right between medium and large but larges are too big and spacers on my medium feel cramped. High rise will change everything.
I’ve been waiting for this video from any channel for so long thanks guys
Hi dude. I'm running a 680mm TOSEEK carbon Rise Bar (18mm horizontally raised, 5 degrees backward) with TOSEEK 80mm (raised 6 degrees) carbon Stem on my 26inch MTB. It's really nice and I really enjoyed it. 😉
1.Props to your editor. The comedy clips were gold. 2. Love this channel. I always learn something new. Thanks to everyone for your quality work here. Cheers
🤣
I run a slammed 35mm stem, 80mm rise Deity bars, and a 150mm Yari on my San Quentin and it’s perfect for me. I’m 5’9.5” with a long torso and short legs. I ride trails in Texas so mostly flat/ flowy stuff with jumps and features. I love it.
My wife and I are running 50mm rise Spank Spike bars and love them.
Got those too and they've been nice and comfy. Plus I'm childish and it's funny to me when paired with my Funn headset it reads as spank funn
I got those ready to go on... How are they around flat fast turns though? Do you guys ride fast or casual?
@@thearoom I'm not fast but don't notice a difference between a riser ad a flat bar except the riser is more comfortable so I ride with that little more confidence
The movie references were on point on this one ☝️. Well played edit guy, well played. “Oh my back, my neck and my back”.
I am 5'7" with a 26" inseam. My arms are short too so I wanted a high rise bar with the desire to roll the bar back some combined with a 35mm stem. I also replaced the standard aluminum fork on my bike with the carbon fiber fork of the more expensive model. The bike is a little older so the fork was available at a discount. I cut it for a few more spacers, but was warned not to go to crazy with spacers. It turned out that my bike had come with a 40mm rise bar so the new bar only made a difference in that it was wider. I ended up going back to the original bar because I was worried about putting a bar end though one of my knees in a crash.
Great explanation of how spacers vs rise affects reach,thanks
LOVE my Deity Highside 50mm rise bars!!!
Coming from bmx riding, I changed the original bar and stem of my trek remedy. Shorter stem 60mm rise Bar. Best decision. Easyier bunny hops and manuals. Confident on steep trails. No back pain. Some kind of bmx feeling on trails ❤
40mm Spank bars better for my 60 year old back 👍🏿
I need to do this , running 10mm risers and its killing my 61 year old wrists
@@patthewoodboy Burgtec bars are pretty affordable compared to other bars
@@dumbr2098 putting on 30 mm risers from Renthal :-)
I just ordered Spank Spoon 35@40mm rise 🎉 can't wait to get em!
Love this channel. I get more thoughtful and experienced advice than most anywhere else. Appreciate you doing it. I’ve ordered several things from the website and your prices are on point. Great customer service too.
Just switched to a Raceface Respond with 1/2” rise, significant feel over flat bar.
Very informative. Not only covered the hows but also the whys and the cause and effects.
Easy way to look at it. Downhill on Gnarly terrain, I want the best chance of not going face first into some rocks. Uphill, I could care f'n less, the speed is so slow the worst case scenario is I have to walk. Downhill, the worst case scenario is I eat rocks with my face. I will take the higher rise bars any day.
Very good ! Watching from Brazil here.
Excellent video as usual from you guys 👊👊
Nice videos! You might also want to mention "sweep" in this video (seeing how much some of these rise bar sweep back at the grips at the 10:00 min mark). I alleviated a lot of hand numbness by rotating my rise bar in the clamp and moving that sweep position to a more natural hand position for me.
I usually run a 20mm rise bar, but I do like the riding position of the higher rise bar... maybe I will try a 35mm rise next time!
Go for it!
I recently changed from a nearly flat Thompson Ti bar to a high rise sq labs bar.
Also I got the shortest Renthal stem available for better maneuverability.
The riding position got so much more comfortable and I’m way more confident on the bike!
Even while ascending, but I guess that comes from the massive 16 deg backsweep of the SQ Labs bar.
It gives me so much more power over the front of my bike, since my arm and shoulder position is now perfectly aligned.
It almost feels like cheating!
The only thing I regret, is that I haven’t discovered this earlier.
From now on all my bikes will get the SQ Labs bars with the most backsweep and rise.
I can’t believe I’ll say this, but the upgrades bars made more difference then getting a new fork.
The level of control I gained is just insane.
Someone who never tried such a „extreme“(considered by many in the bike industry) backsweep and a little higher rise won’t believe it.
Now just a few more degrees of upsweep would be the next good step in the right direction.
Thanks for finally addressing us with bad backs!
I understand your explanation about how adding spacers would reduce the reach. But can I further reduce my reach by simply rotating one of these high rise bars back slightly?
Yeah that would work but I think youre better off with a shorter stem cause you dont wanna steer from behind the steerer tube
Rotating bars back makes a more aggresive angle on the bars. Many riders put riser bars on to rotate forward and reduce pressure/ improve angle on the wrists/hands
i dont know why i havent seen this video before; this is like all i needed to know thank you.
That was helpful, great job man. Very uplifting.
I didn't notice the hair, but I did catch the NICA mix up. I'm a MTB coach through NICA in Oregon and it's amazing what all they do for getting kids on bikes, setting up races, and encouraging them to push themselves.
I feel beginners, like me, who uses their bike for commuting are more used to an upright position. Great video explaining the pros/cons!
If only things were as simple as you put them here... From my experience with a 29” bike with a 170mm fork, and coming from a long period with 26” bikes, I felt great with a zero rise bar and zero spacers on top of a flat headset. And this had nothing to do with how steep the terrain was. The factor that matters in that regard is stem length, and with a 31mm stem the fear of going over the bars was non-existent. I have been trying other setups more recently, including having the bar 40mm higher, and confirming that. I get no more confidence from a higher bar. Besides, the ability to pedal with a higher bar is not reduced, but increased. This is because even though the reach is reduced with more spacers, the rider area distance, that is, the distance from the bottom bracket to the grips, is increased. This is actually the true “reach”, more than the horizontal reach that only takes one dimension into consideration. Your rider area becomes more spacious whether you use a handlebar with more rise or raise the stem. Now, the thing about bar height for me is how much weight do you want your arms to support. I feel good bearing more weight on the arms and feel that I can control the front better. You’re riding more like a four legged animal, and with a higher bar you’re more “bipedal”. The “attack” ability is not influenced by this, though. So what is influenced? That is the question that I’ve been trying to answer. A more upright ride is less active, so one might become less tired, but I also miss that “action”. The mechanics are different, the way of working with the bike is different. Riding more upright is a bit “plainer” but I’ll try it a bit more to see if I get used to it because I like the increased rider area distance.
My back used to hurt too. I added 10mm on the fork and got a 25mm rise handle bar and it made a world of a difference
I went from a 15 to a 30.
Front end wonders like crazy on the climbs now.
15mm makes a big difference...
In my opinion 15mm is only in your head...but just my 2c...
I want to raise the bars on my Tero to ease the pressure on my wrists and lower back (I’m 62). Having watched this I’m deffo going for replacement bars. Great video by the way 👍
60mm spank for the BMX feel
As I get older, I have raised the handlebars to save my back. Now I am 66 years old and I no longer cycle the most challenging forest trails, but there are many nice forest roads here in Norway with lots of nature right outside my door.
Intergalactic is so much cooler though. Sorry about the fingy Jeff.
It is! Check 10:58 😉
That’s the reason I lifted the front end because lower back pain,170 fork and a 40 renthal bar.my rides are usually 8-10 miles and that helped lots.
You said intergalactic with such confidence I was gonna let it slide.
Check 10:58 got ya 😁
@@WorldwideCyclery intergalactic is all encompassing though. "Don't matter what planet you come from you go through US! We're intergalactic baby! "
I love my 30mm rise bars they help with back fatigue as you mentioned but also they help me with less wrist fatigue, great video..
Depends on your Stack height, also, you forgot to mention that when you have more rise in your handlebar, it affect your effective stem length, in fact it’s the equivalent to add spacer and put un longer stem to keep the same reach...
so basically, start with your geo, and than adjust according to that
I find a good no compromise is to have high rise 40mm bars but with an adjustable seat post for any really tough climbs. Best of both!
Why didn’t you talk about like 50, 60, and 70mm??
Please make a video explaining the different kinds of stems. There are just so many things to consider. Angle length etc.
wow thanks for the clip Jeff, seriously that was really informative, i dont like the look of high rise bars, the next handle bars i want to get are Enve and they come in a 10, 25 and 35, so I'm going to get the 25mm rise one, my current ones are 20mm so knowing that a higher rise bar will help with the DH stuff makes me more happy to go with the 25mm
i see all your videos. Through your channel i made a clear decision to buy crank brothers stamp 1 pedal for my canyon stitched 360
LOVE FROM INDIA
I noticed “intergalactic” and I’m disappointed that’s not the actual name.
Going to pick up those PNW bars in the next couple weeks. I have never heard a bad thing said about them. I love the dropper i have from them.
Check the video at 10:58 😁
Love the riser bars! Never understood why they put 50mm worth of spacers under the stem and use a flat bar. I run a 5mm spacer and 50 mm Deity riser bar
2019 Giant Trance E.
30mm of spacers and
Spank 50mm rise bars
I’m running the PNW range bars now on my trek x-caliber and I love them. Makes my shoulders feel more comfortable because there is more space to spread my arms out.
What size stem are you using
@@Striveon247 PNW 50mm stem. This one to be exact...
www.pnwcomponents.com/products/range-stem-v3
The Intergalactic part was way funnier having already read the comments calling it out
I picked up the PNW Range bars and Loam grips in the Fruit Snacks flavor. They feel great! Thanks for the cockpit breakdown!
I think 25mm rise is the best rise for pretty much every bike in most conditions
I'm 49 years old, I've been on a high protein low calorie diet for 5 months and I've lost 60 pounds. Im going to get more serious about riding bikes as im feeling better. I dont have back problems but im not as agile as a 20 year old and I feel more stable with my upper body more upright. Obviously im not the rider your going to meet on the trail. So considerations of uphill, downhill aren't really an issue for me. Thank you for a great video, gives me ideas of what I'll change on my bike.
This is an "old" trend coming around again.
About time someone said that!!🙋🙋😎
its not trend, bikes just look better with rise bar
@@sdqsdq6274 ..hence a trend ...
but then why the low rise became a thing meanwhile?
I didn't know it ever left. I've always run a higher rise bar and never noticed a reduction of fellow "high bar" riders at the trails. That's at least 23 years of "trend" as far as I know.
I got a BMX 8.5" high rise for my fatbike, that's exactly what I needed. I'm a big fat guy trying to get into cycling and don't need to be hunched over while I ride.
@Worldwide Cyclery please do video about handlebar angles :)
Awesome, very informative. Another important point is bar width. If your bike came with 780mm bars and you put 800mm bars on, this will decrease your reach. It's only 10mm each side but makes all the difference.
... national intergalactic cycling association ?? lol who they racing against, aliens?
Aliens and spaceships! Check 10:58 got ya 😁
We are all aliens somewhere.
Reaaally helpful video.
I've had bad lower backpack for years on my bike, and I've always found it hard to do the steep stuff. Considering my bars are flat it's probably time for a raised bar!
Man, it needed a video like this for you to realize you probably need a bar with bigger rise? After years of pain? Dang...
I am considering high rise bars not for climbing or descending, but to better fit my overall body position. I am 6'6", and while saddle height is usually no issue, bar height is not adjustable and usually laid out for someone in the middle of the frame size's target audience (where I am on the extreme end). Meaning that I am - at least in theory - leaning forward more than would be recommended for a recreational rider like myself. Did a bikefit with my new fullsus recently with a physical therapist, and we found my handlebars were about 30-40mm lower than they should be.
But as with most things, instead of focusing on a single metric the overall system must be considered, and despite the somewhat low handlebar we did conclude that my CoG was nicely above the bottom bracket, so the first order of business is to get some long-ish rides in. If I get a sore back, we need to add a riser bar.
Love my 35mm rise PNW Range handlebar. Plus the colors are sick
8:36 The national intergalactic cycling association.
Check 10:58 got ya 😁
Nice haircut 👌🏼
Awesome video and at great explanation. Im not looking at changing my factory handlebar bars for but im definitely educated about them now if I ever want to change them.
If it feels comfy, run it
I’ve been waiting for a video like this for SO FREAKING LONG. Thank you!
Interscholastic, planetary. planetary, interscholastic!
Haha you caught that 😁
10:58
how about adding a stem with a higher rise? I like the look of my bars' rise and sweep. I'd like to take a little pressure off my hands, though, with higher grips
In the comments before Taylor R. has thrown herself at Jeff.. I shall consider this a productive AF Friday. #tayloryouslippin
Dang it! I was trying to move on from asking him out, but my heart can’t stay away from Jeff’s beautiful blue eyes.
@Taylor R 😂🤣🤣