@@theseventhnightso it suffers from the venture brothers curse where it’s well written but the show creator can only work so fast but quality over quantity
Full backstory on what's happening; moclins are an "all male" race of people, except every so often a female is in fact born. They are seen as impure. Topa is their child and was born female, after some convincing(by watching rodalph the red nosed rain deer) bortis accepts their daughter. However, his mate klydin does not, they go to court and the moclin court rules for the sex change. So tops is raised male and begins treating female kids horribly as moclis(the planet) teaches its citizens that females are inferior regardless of race. Through some careful pointing by different parties, Topa finds a file that details what happened to him. How he was once female, in order to access the file(which was when found sent an alert to bortis), bortis gives Topa thé access codes. Topa finds this information both unsettling and at the same time accepts the reality as Topa had always felt in the wrong body. Now knowing that He is a She, Topa asks to have a reversal surgery. The robot, Isaac preforms the surgery as he is the only one on board both capable and not truly part of the federation. Klydin freaks out because his whole life he has been taught how women are something to be scorned. Best part of this is that Klydin himself is biologically female. And knows. It is about a rejection of one's self to an extreme of holding back others from them being their own self. I would stand to say it is intended to speak on the Trans debate.
@@wcthesecret I'm confused? Who lied? Everyone wanted Topa to choose for herself. She chooses to be female and everyone accepts her except Klydin, her father who is also biological female.(Klydin identifies as male but it almost feels more like only because to accept his female nature would be banishment and everything he stands against, as he's very misogynistic.) Topa choosing to be the way she was born is very good story telling, and the lengths the crew go to are to keep her safe for the moclin empire(as seen in later episodes when the hunt down females).
@@RikkiTikkiTavi290exactly, she was disfigured when klyden and the Moclan culture forced her transition to male as a baby to fit their cultural norm. Very sad.
@@RikkiTikkiTavi290 We can see that you dont even know what you are talking about. Topa was Originally a female before being changed to a male. now shes is being reverted back to her original sex. Tell me you didnt watch the show without telling me you didnt watch the show.
Hi I’m paragraph guy please please hold your applause when I’m finish. Now I’m gonna ramble of the Orville is great show that touches more sensitive topics. Toppa being turned back to a girl is a very important part of the series which later leads to the moclans separating from the union. Bortus being such a supportive dad is awesome truly one of my favorite parts of the show
Yes and it also Shows how selfish and inconsiderate that specific community is. She risked an uncountable amount of lives by pissing of a massive part of the Union military strength. The Krill moclan alliance is the perfect example for this. She basically lets for factions go to War over her selfish desires. The Union protects individuality, the moclans are traditional, the kaylons were forced into Submissions and become the New military strength of the Union and the Krill are like Religious fanatics if i recall. All 4 of them are massive populations ready to go to War for their beliefs and she just risks it for her own satisfaction
Moclans are an all male race. Periodically there will be a female who is born. Moclan government knows of this and they sexually transition the children to male. The child in the scene is his daugther. She was born female and him and his mate went to court to decide whether or not to transition her to male. The court won. Child found out she was born female wants to go back to being female. Klyden, 1 of her fathers, disagrees and tries to stop it. Klyden the father was born female, his parents transitioned him when he was born. He didn't know until he was well into adult years and with his current mate. You will get different opinions on this. Majority will say that Klyden is self hating or jealous because of choice or whatever. Its none of those things. The way the character was written and the development, Klyden was trying to protect his child because on Moclus females are treated less than and inferior. She would be treated creuly on her planet. So he tries to protect her the only way he knows how. Very very very very very dump downed version.
I keep being told how this is all about being transgender yet, she was actually born a female. Not male and thought she was female. She was female and had it taken from her. It is not the same. With that being said. No child should be treated that way by a parent. I'm a Christian, when one of my children came out as PAN as a teen. I never treated her with anything but the same love as before. Did it hurt yes, did I worry about my child yes. There is a difference between making sure your child talks things out and gets really help to make sure what they are feeling is true, and being outright abusive.
That's why social transition is important. It lets children explore gender identity and realize what is or isn't true for them. As for the trans allegory, I agree its clunky, but they went on the record saying that's what's meant to be represented. But they told that allegory with a culture that forces transition. Not the best idea.
So, I'm all for the trans alegory and resistance to an opressive culture, but this *is* technically a biological essentialism argument the show is making. Not how they ment it, I know, but fundamentally what it is. Edit for clarity: the show is not intending to make a biological essentialism argument, but by casting their villains as a culture that forces transition (which is what many transphobes think is happening irl) it gives them solace and perceived (incorrectly) support.
It's technically all of those things. It's not trying to be a 1-1 allegory and that's a good thing. It's forcing both sides of the real world issue to introspect on some very uncomfortable realities of their own ideologies.
@@andrewextravaganza8796 Not sure how you leaped to the conclusion that the show is "making" a biological essentialism argument. Pretty sure it was just that forcing/coercing/tricking people into transitioning children for reasons of cultural ideology was wrong.
Since I can't reply to @tehpurplepills directly, I'll just say this here, maybe they'll respond! IVF by its nature results in human embryo destruction. If abortion is immoral and should be illegal, why should IVF not? If embryos accidentally being destroyed is also immoral and should be illegal, why is it not immoral or illegal when it happens through the function of IVF?
I think that's part of what makes the Topa arc so respectful of the sensitive topics it's covering. Just because Klyden's in the wrong doesn't mean that his feelings aren't real, and his anger and grief are treated as worthy of consideration even if they come from a position the writers disagree with.
@@mrmac2340 true someone's emotions of something is very real but I think Seth macfarlane is trying to convey that wrong is wrong everywhere and anywhere disregarding a being you created cause of cultural bias is inherently wrong you brought them into the world its your duty to guide them EVEN if you don't like them
Issac explained it well; cultural indoctrination. It’s how he was raised and he stubbornly sticks to the cultural norms literally forced on him from infancy. It’s a parallel to the gender issues we have today. With parents indoctrinating the gender assigned to their child at birth for the sake of normality and acceptance, even at the cost of their child’s physical and physiological health.
Internalised bigotry affects Klyden as strongly as it affects many people in the real world. Klyden may have been born female, but he was put through the forcible conversion and has had the message hammered into him througout his whole life that it was necessary, regardless of if he wanted it or not. Seeing someone else being given a choice you never were, one you were taught was never even a choice to begin with - that really hurts, and people like Klyden often lash out from the distress it causes them. "I wasn't given this choice, so why did you get it? Did I do something wrong to not deserve it?" With the Moclans' story being used to parallel human treatment of transgender and intersex people, it reflects a behaviour I've seen more than a few times - sometimes, you'll get people who are vigorously, enthusiastically against transgender rights, but also express that they had similar trans feelings when they were younger but "overcame" or "grew out of" it. It's as if they're saying that because they weren't given the option, no one else should, because that would mean they weren't treated fairly back then and the pain of knowing that would be too hard to process.
Dear god, he doesn't hate his daugther. He actually loves her very much. Yes he was born female, which is why he is pushing so hard for her to be male. He drank from the koolaid growing up. Bought into the culture and everything. Had a normal moclan life. Had friends, mates. Then while as an adult he found out he was female. The very thing his culture despises and looks down on. Now he has this secret he needs to keep because he knows first hand how moclans are with females. Then he has a daugther, the secret is now staring him in the face. He has 2 choices. 1 leave the child as female and she will be astrocized and treated cruely by his own people OR transition her and she will hopefully live a normal life like he did. Have a chance at having friends and a mate and children of her own. He gets angry because everyone keeps going against him when he believes he knows best and by all accounts he does because he has lived it and knows about it first hand. When he ends up saying I wish you were never born, that is done to separate himself from the child emotionally. He believes she will live a harsh and hurtful life and he doesn't want to go through the pain of being right so he tries to seperate himself from her. He is trying to protect himself from that future pain he believes will happen. Now I am not saying what he is doing is right. However, parents in attempts to protect their children will do stupid things out of fear and love. There is a lot of love and a lot of fear in Klyden for his daugther. Hope this puts it in a better perspective.
Because that would mean accepting that he himself was a victim of his own society. He may choose to live as male anyway, but he would have to accept that he was altered for no good reason without his consent.
As a straight adult I feel sorry for you, your parents should support you to be who you want to be, not force you into their view of the world. They aren't gonna live your life for you anyway, they shouldn't try to control it.
"I wish you were never born." "...Captain, please lock phasers on the next shuttle to exit the ship, I have reason to believe the Borg has assimulated the crew." "Wait, the Borg aren't in this universe--" "Captain. Lock. Phasers."
@@bd95382 so the parents allowed an unnecessary procedure to be done on their child because of those around them and what people would think of them, isn't topical for California today
I agree 👏 Which is why I'm so happy Topa turned BACK into a female, as that is what she was born as, rather than living a lie Klyden and the Moclans forced on her after birth :)
I love the fact the comment has 0 likes. I mean clearly bro didn't watch the show. Shit, I haven't even watched the show, I've seen like 5 shorts and I know what's going on lmao
Due to moclus culture, females are considered abnormal thus they change the females to males at birth Klyden is blinded by his culture that he refused to allow topa to revert back to female (even though topa wishes to) (klyden does care about topa hence why he doesn't want topa to revert to a female) once the surgery is finished, klyden leaves but after what happens later on, klyden returns to them and apologises to topa and states that he must change
The aliens, Moclans, are a mostly male race and any females are surgically converted to male. The one parent wants to follow tradition but the other wants their daughter to follow their own choice. Because they are on a human spaceship the robot and doctors refuse to do the surgery basically causing an international incident.
The child was born female in a primarily male race that views females as lesser beings. they forced her to be changed to male. years later the child figures out what happened and asked to be made female again one of her fathers disapproved of it because he still believed female are lesser beings you have seen the outcome.
Bortus is an amazing father. The delivery of the "Listen to me closely. You are perfect" is exquisite.
From when I thought the boy wanted to become a girl, but I realize they were actually originally female
It’s a bummer. This was the best Seth MacFarlane show and it only got a few seasons
He's still working on a 4th but it's a long process because according to Palicki, Seth refuses to accept any help with the writing
@@theseventhnightso it suffers from the venture brothers curse where it’s well written but the show creator can only work so fast but quality over quantity
@@theseventhnight old dude from toy story 2: _YOU CANT RUSH ART_
@@abrahamnarvaez1730 Would you rather have a Game of Thrones lol?
❤❤❤❤❤❤
Full backstory on what's happening; moclins are an "all male" race of people, except every so often a female is in fact born. They are seen as impure. Topa is their child and was born female, after some convincing(by watching rodalph the red nosed rain deer) bortis accepts their daughter. However, his mate klydin does not, they go to court and the moclin court rules for the sex change. So tops is raised male and begins treating female kids horribly as moclis(the planet) teaches its citizens that females are inferior regardless of race.
Through some careful pointing by different parties, Topa finds a file that details what happened to him. How he was once female, in order to access the file(which was when found sent an alert to bortis), bortis gives Topa thé access codes. Topa finds this information both unsettling and at the same time accepts the reality as Topa had always felt in the wrong body. Now knowing that He is a She, Topa asks to have a reversal surgery.
The robot, Isaac preforms the surgery as he is the only one on board both capable and not truly part of the federation. Klydin freaks out because his whole life he has been taught how women are something to be scorned.
Best part of this is that Klydin himself is biologically female. And knows. It is about a rejection of one's self to an extreme of holding back others from them being their own self. I would stand to say it is intended to speak on the Trans debate.
Except they are actually liars while topa just wants to go back to the way she originally was.
Sounds like it's a good thing there really are no Moclans. They're messed up from the jump. No wonder they have problems.
@@wcthesecret I'm confused? Who lied? Everyone wanted Topa to choose for herself. She chooses to be female and everyone accepts her except Klydin, her father who is also biological female.(Klydin identifies as male but it almost feels more like only because to accept his female nature would be banishment and everything he stands against, as he's very misogynistic.) Topa choosing to be the way she was born is very good story telling, and the lengths the crew go to are to keep her safe for the moclin empire(as seen in later episodes when the hunt down females).
@@OneWeekRainisu **a**ies in general are liars to theirselves. In this case, she was forced to be a **a**y. But she fixed herself so she’s good now.
@@OneWeekRainisuI believe they meant the moclans lied about her true nature.
Bortus is the ideological parent we all needed
You mean a parent that consents to child disfigurement because of the illogical whims of a child? No, we're lucky we didn't have that.
@@RikkiTikkiTavi290 Topa was not “disfigured”; her natal sex was surgically restored.
@@RikkiTikkiTavi290exactly, she was disfigured when klyden and the Moclan culture forced her transition to male as a baby to fit their cultural norm. Very sad.
@@RikkiTikkiTavi290 We can see that you dont even know what you are talking about. Topa was Originally a female before being changed to a male. now shes is being reverted back to her original sex. Tell me you didnt watch the show without telling me you didnt watch the show.
didnt he take his kid down to a hate camp that hates her kind, and tests on them, and she gets kidnapped that day?
Hi I’m paragraph guy please please hold your applause when I’m finish. Now I’m gonna ramble of the Orville is great show that touches more sensitive topics. Toppa being turned back to a girl is a very important part of the series which later leads to the moclans separating from the union. Bortus being such a supportive dad is awesome truly one of my favorite parts of the show
What season is this?
Yes and it also Shows how selfish and inconsiderate that specific community is. She risked an uncountable amount of lives by pissing of a massive part of the Union military strength. The Krill moclan alliance is the perfect example for this. She basically lets for factions go to War over her selfish desires. The Union protects individuality, the moclans are traditional, the kaylons were forced into Submissions and become the New military strength of the Union and the Krill are like Religious fanatics if i recall. All 4 of them are massive populations ready to go to War for their beliefs and she just risks it for her own satisfaction
@@1simp4RiasGremory someone missed the point...
@@andrewextravaganza8796 although not inaccurate.
@@spinylightgaming calling putting persons' rights as a priority selfish is inaccurate
When I heard him say that, "I wish you was never born", I cried
Just waiting for the paragraph guy 😅
The "paragraph guy"?
Moclans are an all male race. Periodically there will be a female who is born. Moclan government knows of this and they sexually transition the children to male. The child in the scene is his daugther. She was born female and him and his mate went to court to decide whether or not to transition her to male. The court won.
Child found out she was born female wants to go back to being female. Klyden, 1 of her fathers, disagrees and tries to stop it.
Klyden the father was born female, his parents transitioned him when he was born. He didn't know until he was well into adult years and with his current mate.
You will get different opinions on this. Majority will say that Klyden is self hating or jealous because of choice or whatever. Its none of those things. The way the character was written and the development, Klyden was trying to protect his child because on Moclus females are treated less than and inferior. She would be treated creuly on her planet. So he tries to protect her the only way he knows how.
Very very very very very dump downed version.
@@stantonvalberg9814 oh, you know, the person who actually knows what's going on in the episode/series the clip is from.
Klyden is Bortus' Karen.
I keep being told how this is all about being transgender yet, she was actually born a female. Not male and thought she was female. She was female and had it taken from her. It is not the same. With that being said. No child should be treated that way by a parent. I'm a Christian, when one of my children came out as PAN as a teen. I never treated her with anything but the same love as before. Did it hurt yes, did I worry about my child yes. There is a difference between making sure your child talks things out and gets really help to make sure what they are feeling is true, and being outright abusive.
That's why social transition is important. It lets children explore gender identity and realize what is or isn't true for them.
As for the trans allegory, I agree its clunky, but they went on the record saying that's what's meant to be represented. But they told that allegory with a culture that forces transition. Not the best idea.
So, I'm all for the trans alegory and resistance to an opressive culture, but this *is* technically a biological essentialism argument the show is making. Not how they ment it, I know, but fundamentally what it is.
Edit for clarity: the show is not intending to make a biological essentialism argument, but by casting their villains as a culture that forces transition (which is what many transphobes think is happening irl) it gives them solace and perceived (incorrectly) support.
It's technically all of those things. It's not trying to be a 1-1 allegory and that's a good thing. It's forcing both sides of the real world issue to introspect on some very uncomfortable realities of their own ideologies.
@@darwinxavier3516 biological essentialism is provably wrong in humans...
@@darwinxavier3516 second attempt (youtube deleted my first reply), biological essentialism is provably false
Tried replying directly a few times, kept getting deleted. Biological essentialism is provably wrong.
@@andrewextravaganza8796 Not sure how you leaped to the conclusion that the show is "making" a biological essentialism argument. Pretty sure it was just that forcing/coercing/tricking people into transitioning children for reasons of cultural ideology was wrong.
Since I can't reply to @tehpurplepills directly, I'll just say this here, maybe they'll respond! IVF by its nature results in human embryo destruction. If abortion is immoral and should be illegal, why should IVF not? If embryos accidentally being destroyed is also immoral and should be illegal, why is it not immoral or illegal when it happens through the function of IVF?
I love the way Isaac side steps Klyden like “the hell you will!!”
Scaringly actual to be honest.
I understand all the feelings of everyone in this clip
Yeah I see what you mean, but this is topas original gender so cultural bias or not you never tell your child you wish they were never born
I think that's part of what makes the Topa arc so respectful of the sensitive topics it's covering. Just because Klyden's in the wrong doesn't mean that his feelings aren't real, and his anger and grief are treated as worthy of consideration even if they come from a position the writers disagree with.
@@mrmac2340 true someone's emotions of something is very real but I think Seth macfarlane is trying to convey that wrong is wrong everywhere and anywhere disregarding a being you created cause of cultural bias is inherently wrong you brought them into the world its your duty to guide them EVEN if you don't like them
Collided needs to go hope I spelled that right lol
It was like this 😠😠😠😠😠👈🏽👈🏽👈🏽😂
But wasn’t klyden also born as a female? So why does he hate her so much?
Issac explained it well; cultural indoctrination. It’s how he was raised and he stubbornly sticks to the cultural norms literally forced on him from infancy.
It’s a parallel to the gender issues we have today. With parents indoctrinating the gender assigned to their child at birth for the sake of normality and acceptance, even at the cost of their child’s physical and physiological health.
Internalised bigotry affects Klyden as strongly as it affects many people in the real world. Klyden may have been born female, but he was put through the forcible conversion and has had the message hammered into him througout his whole life that it was necessary, regardless of if he wanted it or not. Seeing someone else being given a choice you never were, one you were taught was never even a choice to begin with - that really hurts, and people like Klyden often lash out from the distress it causes them.
"I wasn't given this choice, so why did you get it? Did I do something wrong to not deserve it?"
With the Moclans' story being used to parallel human treatment of transgender and intersex people, it reflects a behaviour I've seen more than a few times - sometimes, you'll get people who are vigorously, enthusiastically against transgender rights, but also express that they had similar trans feelings when they were younger but "overcame" or "grew out of" it. It's as if they're saying that because they weren't given the option, no one else should, because that would mean they weren't treated fairly back then and the pain of knowing that would be too hard to process.
Dear god, he doesn't hate his daugther. He actually loves her very much. Yes he was born female, which is why he is pushing so hard for her to be male.
He drank from the koolaid growing up. Bought into the culture and everything. Had a normal moclan life. Had friends, mates. Then while as an adult he found out he was female. The very thing his culture despises and looks down on.
Now he has this secret he needs to keep because he knows first hand how moclans are with females. Then he has a daugther, the secret is now staring him in the face.
He has 2 choices. 1 leave the child as female and she will be astrocized and treated cruely by his own people OR transition her and she will hopefully live a normal life like he did. Have a chance at having friends and a mate and children of her own.
He gets angry because everyone keeps going against him when he believes he knows best and by all accounts he does because he has lived it and knows about it first hand.
When he ends up saying I wish you were never born, that is done to separate himself from the child emotionally. He believes she will live a harsh and hurtful life and he doesn't want to go through the pain of being right so he tries to seperate himself from her. He is trying to protect himself from that future pain he believes will happen.
Now I am not saying what he is doing is right. However, parents in attempts to protect their children will do stupid things out of fear and love. There is a lot of love and a lot of fear in Klyden for his daugther.
Hope this puts it in a better perspective.
Because that would mean accepting that he himself was a victim of his own society. He may choose to live as male anyway, but he would have to accept that he was altered for no good reason without his consent.
Black space aliens 😆😆🤡
She had lashes after the procedure. Definitely a female now !😂
We can see who is wiser father
As a non binary teenager, Bortus is the dad I want but Klyden is the dad I have
So you want your original sex back. Good.
As a straight adult I feel sorry for you, your parents should support you to be who you want to be, not force you into their view of the world. They aren't gonna live your life for you anyway, they shouldn't try to control it.
@@MateoLemes thank you that means a lot 🙏
Go with your pelvic bone.
You'll thank me later.
As a non-binary adult who had a neo-nazi father growing up, it gets better. Found family helps.
Who knew McFarlane had an episode on de-transitioning. Lol!
You clearly have no clue what transitioning and detransitioning are. Pretty sure any trans people you know stay far away from you
Goddam
That you are perfect gave me a fluttet
Movie name
I dont see how anyone could say that their own child.
You would be surprised how often it happens in real life.
@pinkdiamond1847 You should never ever say that to your child, especially if you feel it's true. It's not the kids' fault for being made.
@@JamesBoyd-gt8bp Nonetheless, there are many parents in both fiction and reality who treat their kids in truly unacceptable ways.
"I wish you were never born."
"...Captain, please lock phasers on the next shuttle to exit the ship, I have reason to believe the Borg has assimulated the crew."
"Wait, the Borg aren't in this universe--"
"Captain. Lock. Phasers."
Is that a suitcase used in space lol
Humanity destroying other lifestyles.
Theres an entire colony of female moclans hiding to survive. They are saving lifestyles
Individual's choice is more important than culture.
@@Conteventthis is the correct answer to this comment
Nah@@Contevent
Bait.
Couldnt live the trans lie
Couldn't live a life based on forced cultural expectations about gender
@@bd95382 so the parents allowed an unnecessary procedure to be done on their child because of those around them and what people would think of them, isn't topical for California today
@@aownbey609 no
@@andrewextravaganza8796 her parents lied to her and she couldn't live with it
@@aownbey609 no was a response to the last line, specifically
SHE.... I love how this goes against the Trains Culture
It's totally a sin against YHWH's law known as His TORAH that HIS PEOPLE are to live by.
Follow God's law and not the law of men.
That old scam!
You know what YHWH has in common with the other 3,000+ gods? He was also made up by people
Nah Klyden is right. Unnatural is unnatural.
I agree 👏 Which is why I'm so happy Topa turned BACK into a female, as that is what she was born as, rather than living a lie Klyden and the Moclans forced on her after birth :)
As others have pointed out, clearly you haven't watched the show.
The kid was originally a girl.... she was force to become a boy when topaz was born
I love the fact the comment has 0 likes. I mean clearly bro didn't watch the show. Shit, I haven't even watched the show, I've seen like 5 shorts and I know what's going on lmao
@@sparkyspinz9897 its almost like it was a bait...
What happened tho?
Due to moclus culture, females are considered abnormal thus they change the females to males at birth
Klyden is blinded by his culture that he refused to allow topa to revert back to female (even though topa wishes to) (klyden does care about topa hence why he doesn't want topa to revert to a female) once the surgery is finished, klyden leaves but after what happens later on, klyden returns to them and apologises to topa and states that he must change
Also females are born every 75 years hence why they believe females are abnormal
The aliens, Moclans, are a mostly male race and any females are surgically converted to male. The one parent wants to follow tradition but the other wants their daughter to follow their own choice. Because they are on a human spaceship the robot and doctors refuse to do the surgery basically causing an international incident.
The child was born female in a primarily male race that views females as lesser beings. they forced her to be changed to male. years later the child figures out what happened and asked to be made female again one of her fathers disapproved of it because he still believed female are lesser beings you have seen the outcome.
Also klyden was a female