I tried to make a similar argument on Reddit waaaay back when they were doing their efficiency tier list when they were saying she was worse than Bunet. It’s basically free to transfer a forged Fensalir over to her by turn 2, which solves both her damage and her speed issues (since they start her with such high Wt weapons). Bunet’s pros vs cons: Has extra Mov; ok bulk **vs** takes up a deployment slot; can barely ORKO unpromoted enemies WITH investment; gets doubled by all promoted enemies. Timerra’s cons vs pros: Is weighed down and is low damage, so struggles to kill and survive the multiple attacks from the fast fliers **vs** does not take a deployment slot; cons are fixed with just a forged Fensalir which is easily traded to her; comes with Ike equipped; decent bulk when not doubled. By their own admission, the Fensalir isn’t especially desired by any of their units. Chloe uses it early on/pre-promotion, and Amber (the only other Lance user they argue keeping past Ch11) is usually better off with his Killer or forged Steel/Greatlance. Once Chloe has promoted (assuming Griffin or Wyvern like they were), she can be switched to the Represailles which is also cheap to forge at the start with similar damage and no weight penalty. Next chapter, with just a Master Seal (so not even gained any levels on the previous chapter and MSs also aren’t in much demand now that the best arriving units are prepromotes), she is fast enough to double and ORKO all unpromoted enemies on the map with the Fensalir and just a +2 SPD bond ring and +2 speed meal (I made this argument because that is literally no investment. They say you should get that type of meal every map anyway, and a bond ring is practically free (one of the Heroes ones does it)). Bunet on the other hand, he still can’t ORKO any non-promos, and he gets doubled/ORKOd by quite a lot of the promoted enemies, so idk what they’re smoking over there
Timerra when I got her was disappointing until I realized just how much her weapons were weighing her down. Gave her lighter weapons and her and Alear pretty much carried the game. They were practically immortal while together.
I think arts would've been a better main weapon focus for her. Fits her build stat, more chances to proc sandstorm, and let's S rank lances be Alfreds thing
She would have been broken! That is why Alear has bad magic growth because their passive also benefits from hitting more and having that on an unbreakable brave weapon... they would have permanent engage.
Timerra absolutely one of the characters that benefits from a Build Inherit from Leif. After you pick that up, you can pretty much slap the Ike ring on her and watch her go full Darude like it's the early 2000s. Or Lyn for some funny procs on the Engage attack.
Ran Timerra Ike on my most recent run. Absolute beast tank with gentility+ and spd 5. Endgame she did baby damage without sandstorm but she didn’t need to lol, tanked everything and let my carry’s get kills. One of the MVP”s for sure
Ngl, I enjoyed using Timerra so much during my latest run; easily my star unit. Sandstorm feels like Luna on a bulky frontline unit and with Sigurd she can scream around the map and Sandstorm crit everything. The only downside is that her voice lines with Sigurd are lacking, because asking if this love is a crime mid-bloodbath makes me happy.
Some of the arguments I see against 'bad' units is people essentially claiming that giving weapons or rings to them is too much investment, or that giving them one of your 13 engraved weapons (+6 essentially at the start of the game with DLC) makes them bad. Or that 'requiring a master seal' is bad. You cant have a conversation with these people. Diamant is someone I see people hate on because he has 'accuracy issues'. Okay, when? "All the time". He has a +15 hit passive, and until he caps his skl, he has comparable hit to Alear, and any other early game unit. Give him a forge with +hit, there are 8+1 of them. I've been running him with Ike and an Eirika Hand Axe, an engraving basically only an Ike user would want, and he shreds everything. Timerra is even easier to use.
Reddit opinion is actually the purest result of the game designers’ work Etie one shots fliers with her iron bow on her joining chapter so people think Etie good, nevermind the fact that next chapter she needs iron bow to still one shot them and that there aren’t fliers until Alcryst arrives Then Timerra has a terrible set despite her stats and just needs the appropriate stuff and a promotion, so people think she’s high maintenance when you can just swap her stuff with Amber’s and she already performs Props on the game design team I guess for gaslighting the community
It is more about efficiency and optimized gameplay. Long term Timeria is s lot better then Etie because she has a role that isn't easily replaced mainly being high defense character with enough speed to avoid being doubled by many faster enemies making her a better tank then those who can only use Great knight while eventually not able to occasionally 1HK without a crazy set up. Meanwhile Etie has high strength but so do others and she has bow proficiency which is like cool but also whatever. However in an optimized run Timeria isn't being used past her join chapter and her efforts in that chapter are mostly using Ike to destroy obstacles. She joins where you have a lot of options and slots in a optimized run are tight. Also at this point a pure tank is unneeded do to Lucina bond shield set ups and eventually wrath/vantage and Corrin terrains Meanwhile Etie is a filler unit but important because she is useful for fliers and even when Alycryst joins having two in his and next few chapters is good. You use her for the first part of the game then drop her Reddit tend to be super optimized and efficient so they look at characters through that lens which warps things
Does a video about Timerra but only pops off after Clanne gets a crit. Clanne is S Tier as well? Really good Video, maybe I should play Engage again and look at the Timerra Sandstorm Stonks.
I find Timerra really good because she fixes my bad positioning. She is just reliable, even if you put her in a bad spot she will live and is very forgiving to use. Merrin, Ivy, Pandero, Panette and Kagesu all die if they are caught in a bad position. People just say uhh just play better but that is why I love Timerra she makes Maddening super easy since often times she holds half a map on her own while I recover from bad rng or just bad positioning.
I don't usually have Fensalir available because that's Lapis' prf. I get her lvl 3 Well lance with either sigurd engraving, Celica engraving or Lyn engraving. I think she performs better with the well lance since she that way gets absurd crit evasion and almost never gets crit even by crit weapons
@@IcedCoffeeGaming Would you consider doing tanking using her on leif with a weightless spear? I've been trying to find an actual niche for leif that isn't vantage sweeping
I know it comes far too late in the game, but I absolutely love giving Timerra a Lucina-engraved Brionac. It’s heavy, but I usually give Sigurd to Timerra anyways for more movement and build.
So on my first run of the game on the hardest difficulty I had no idea what I was doing and I had to reset at chapter 17 as I could not get past it. During my second playthrough I learnt a lot about the mechanics of the game, but I also invested a lot in Timeara who was my main tank and single-handedly one a few missions.
Timerra was one of my most wanted units on a personal level and as she wasn't showing results, I feared that she was another niche pick that required a lot of resources poured into her in order to make her effective. This video was pure catharsis for me. I just needed more effective use of resources like making lighter weapons to make her speed come into play a bit more and give more chances for Sandstorm to trigger. Thanks!
Idk giving her arguably one of if not the strongest combat emblems and having her steal a weapon one of your other units was using on her join map isn’t exactly easy. Especially since half the time by the time she’s caught up to your party the map is over because it’s generally easier to beat that map with all stuff acquired by hugging the left wall and going down after first dealing with the enemies hiding in the fog between her group and allear’s so they don’t die because they are horribly out of position. Grouping up where she is and clearing a path from there makes the map harder so she genuinely just doesn’t get the chance to trade a lot of the time because she just never manages to group up with the rest of your squad. You’d have to warp someone over to trade her the spear ( which it’s not like she’s the only good user of it) or intentionally leave someone behind which you’d basically be not having that unit contribute vs the the 2 bosses. And not 1 rounding is kinda bad for an ike unit immediately. How do you get to the point where great aether 1 shots non armor non boss enemy types ( wolf knights paladins ect) without rng which is where you want your Ike unit to be. A unit not taking much damage with Ike on isnt good literally everyone can do that. A good Ike unit you can just throw them at a large group of enemies and they are all gone next turn.
"Idk giving her arguably one of if not the strongest combat emblems and having her steal a weapon one of your other units was using on her join map isn’t exactly easy. " -Stealing a weapon? Are we missing how the game functions in that units are given forges we plan on using. Why is this stealing a weapon when other units get it for free. Is it stealing for me to forge Kagetsu a killer axe? No it is just forging a weapon and this is a silly argument. She starts with Ike on her join map, not that many units can main tank on Lyn para post 13 this easily. I'd love to see you post proof of this if you think it is truly that easy to pull off. "Especially since half the time by the time she’s caught up to your party the map is over because it’s generally easier to beat that map with all stuff acquired by hugging the left wall and going down after first dealing with the enemies hiding in the fog between her group and allear’s so they don’t die because they are horribly out of position." -This isn't the only/best way to beat this map, there are a lot of different tactics to use on this map. "Grouping up where she is and clearing a path from there makes the map harder so she genuinely just doesn’t get the chance to trade a lot of the time because she just never manages to group up with the rest of your squad. You’d have to warp someone over to trade her the spear ( which it’s not like she’s the only good user of it) or intentionally leave someone behind which you’d basically be not having that unit contribute vs the the 2 bosses." -With the right team/starting positions you can easily kill the initial group and push this position. I do this on most of my runs and it is not hard to do. I have never needed to warp someone, and you can control the map entirely by never breaking any junk so you own the map if you know what you are doing. You can even isolate the 2 ranges over rubble, kill them, then break the junk to initiate the boss fight whenever you want. "And not 1 rounding is kinda bad for an ike unit immediately." -Which units are 24+ Speed post CH13, lmk am interested in this. "How do you get to the point where great aether 1 shots non armor non boss enemy types ( wolf knights paladins ect) without rng which is where you want your Ike unit to be." -You can go for great aether 1 shots, or you can just enemy phase on axe/sword/lance power and 1 round off of speed and MT/crits/sandstorms. "A unit not taking much damage with Ike on isnt good literally everyone can do that. A good Ike unit you can just throw them at a large group of enemies and they are all gone next turn." -I'd love to see proof of this. Let's see Citrinne on Ike do well, or Etie on Ike solo as many enemies as Timerra. You are ignoring Timerra's high Def/high speed making her passively very tanky and able to absorb more combats than most if not all other units in the game. People praise Goldmary who by the time you get her, will have lower def/str than Timerra for her def (in reality they like somthing else about her : ) )
I mean giving her the weapon on join chapter isn’t needed at all, lvl ups on her don’t matter until she promotes, which she can’t do until after the join chapter. He was just showing stat wise she is useful on her join chapter as far as fighting goes, she just has worse equipment than the average unit that you’re actively using. Giving her an engraved/forged weapon makes up for the difference
@@IcedCoffeeGaming for one pretty much any unit can reach 24 speed when factoring in lyn skill inherents mercurius and Parthia michiah ect. I’ve literally got a 31 speed etie just after that on my current maddening no dlc file right now just from Parthia In bow knight with Lucina and speed taker which would be 25 with speed +5 instead of taker ( there’s enough fliers to one shot that speed taking is easier though so I prefer taker on bow units ) Etie’s normally a “slow unit” so if she can do it most units can. The about 5 extra levels Parthia contributed towards can make a massive difference. Timmera’s just around less to abuse such less. Also even without that both her retainers can reach similar thresholds. Merrin’s faster then a promoted timmera by base and pannette in a speed class with similar speed support will also reach similar benchmarks (she’ll need a slightly better bonuses from food/bond rings but she gets more consistent damage the ability to use forged axes for great aether her steel dagger will have as much crit when her skill is active as timera had with the lyn emblem there crit boosting is generally more consistent on her shooting for 100% crit isn’t really unrealistic. ) so for pretty much the same price you get more damage more move more crit which gives more Ike synergy by pairing well with wrath at the cost of what worse supports if you wanted to do dual avoid stuff on your Ike tank which can’t dodge stuff half the time anyway? Honestly if you wanted to use her Dual avoid build Is the way to go her support list is really good and Ike actively turns that off so it kinda screws her over just give her another emblem at that point . She can be a part of a invincible bubble and gamble for sandstorm procs If you really wanted to use her. And I suppose I’ll do maddening trying to make etie a tank up to that chapter and then do lyn paralogue but it’ll take a bit. I do have work the next two days. Or maybe I’ll go for cursed hurricane axe great aether tank citrinne. I’ll see what I feel like when I get around to it
idk that kinda sounds like a weird way to beat the map easily when you can just give Ivy a torch and a wind tome and have her destroy every single wyvern knight on ch 13
So you can explicitly feed an Etie with Parthia for several chapters then give her a ton of speedfixing so she can double things a base Timerra on Ike can similarly double, but then when we give any resources to Timerra, somehow she is underperforming and is bad and anyone can do anything she can do, even though she has some of the highest base def/def growth for her speed and can passively tank well on a lot of different emblem rings, without explicit parthia farms? I've run Merrin tanks on Ike and she can't take as much abuse and takes longer to get online due to lower def up front and eventually has a worse result long term that relies on 30-50% crits to kill on wolf knight. Panette is very slow and will struggle to double without serious help, she can go for crits but will either be switching weapons to 1-2 range or just get hit at 2 range without counter attack if main-lining crit killer axe. Chloe Thief had a pretty good result on Ike but had worse average damage/killing potential to Timerra for 1-2 ranging. Diamant on Ike had worse hitrates/on average was a bit worse as well. Most units cannot reliably 1-2 range on Ike. And if they can they tend to have worse durability. Timerra has very high Def:Speed which is why she is good. She also randomly deals more damage with sandstorm. Overleveling units with Parthia short term doesn't matter unless you LTC, there are so many paralogues you can easily level up all of your units up to points where in mainline chapters you get almost no XP/are overleveled. Yes speed fixing exists, but to make the argument that some explicitly farmed unit with excess resources can also hit doubling thresholds is redundant/doesn't matter. You are comparing that to something I am investing in less and making my case stronger rather than weaker.
Timerra always gave me issues for strength starting out. As stated still weighed down easily. Sandstorm comes rather later both for needing master seal lv5 and her dex still is not astronomically high proc until later levels. The early brave weapon for ideas for quading are heavy and require player phase. Poor enemy phase. At the end of the day, the rng arpect of sandstorm hurts to use. Ive come to appreciate the higher hitting and slower units because speed fixing is much cheaper to do than str fixing. I still like timerra. Use her every time
I got now timerra with Hector, inherited Resolve and pair up from Corrine, gave her a Brave Lance with hector engraving and she’s carrying absolutely everything (maddening)
This describes my first run of Engage so well. I lost a bunch of units to random crits, so I used Timerra as a replacement. She quickly ended up snowballing the game, and became a one woman army. A general who doubles, and potentially ORKO's if half the time? Yes please.
Yall think so? I think it just depends on the unit. There’s just more tools to fix damage than there is speed because of lance/sword/axe power and Eirika, but sometimes lyn makes it reallllll easy to fix speed too.
I still think Timerra is bad, tanking those bow knights is not especially difficult, almost any unit can do the same with Ike. I've done it with 13/1 General Alfred in my most recent playthrough But this is a great setup to level Timerra, getting the 4 levels she needs to get sandstorm is imo the biggest weakness of Timerra and doing this does make her much easier to use. Thanks for the strat, I'll definitely do it if I'm running Timerra again in the future
I kind of wonder if it’s your play speed that makes Timerra so good for you compared to others. Just standing there like you do in this video would drive me crazy. Having her on Picket gives her less move and prevents her from getting flight but going to another class drops her stats. You’ve inspired me though. I’ll give her one more try
I mean Brave weapon Sandstorm fishing is good enough with that def stat, given she won’t get doubled by most things. Or you can do this, you don’t need every unit to one round everything.
@@IcedCoffeeGaming isn't thief only run somewhat easier due to high speed dex (more avoid +crit) , terrain bonus and poison mechanic but axe seems to be high DMG but with bad hit + weight ( speed problems )
Sage Chloe is legit. Mage Knight Chloe is a thing too. People usually switch towards the end of mid game when her Magic catches up to her Str, assuming she was in griffin the whole time
The Ike tank role sadly can be replicated by many units I replicated this with just a 11/1 Great Knight Louis with str and def tonic (or just use a lvl 13/1 Louis or a meal) with Ike and a +3 Spear with Lucina engraving Turn 1 Great Aether to get rid of the Mage, Turn 2 and 3, tank all the Bow knights that only deal 3 x 2 before resolve and 1 x 2 dmg after Louis 2 shots all of them, and this Louis is 5 or 7 lvls lower than Timerra doing the same thing but 2 shot instead of 3 shot/rely on a crit. I just tried this with Base lvl Bunet, even he can do it with a str + def tonic (or use meal) instead of needing a Master seal and +3 Lucina Engraved Tomahawk lets him 2 shot and only take 2 x 4 before resolve and 2 x 2 after resolve We need to set the bar a bit higher than this, as this is not enough to be S tier material
As for those units doing this, great. This isn't the only criteria for evaluating Timerra. She can also double and 1 round far into the late game and her startup is not hard to achieve. The slow great knights are terrible against mages and tend to be bad at killing 1-2 ranges. Those two units are also not very high STR and the ultimate build in this playthrough will be doubling on a spear. Stress test those units against mixed attackers that include mages. They will get doubled and their poor res will actually let the mages kill them through Laguz friend.
@@IcedCoffeeGaming I could probably use Goldmary for it. The idea is earlygame Louis until C11, then bench for Bunet until I get Goldmary so I can have low effort tank unit. If i had to stick to 1 tank unit, there is also Diamant to consider, but I didn't really analysed him enough.
Goldmary has similar base SPD to base Timerra but worse SPD growth and wants more SPD long term. Her base STR is also 17, which is 2 higher than Base Timerra Picket, who by the time you get Goldmary will easily be at least LV5/better SPD/DEF/similar STR but also has sandstorm which procs like this: 25 Dex = 25% chance to see single sandstorm when attacking/43% to sandstorm at least once when doubling. 30 Dex = 30% sandstorm, or 51% when doubling (works on EP too) 35 Dex = 35/57.7% when doubling. So even when just doubling at 35 Dex you are above 50% chance of seeing a single sandstorm which outright kills most things because it is 1.5x your CURRENT def value, which is typically around 40, so you are hitting enemies with 60 STR, even on the weakest weapon unforged typically kills or almost kills. Allowing at least 50% of her 1-2 range enemy phases to convert to kills by existing. Diamant Ike Tank is decent on Successor but the speed is lower than Picket, it has hitrate issues as well. I haven't tried him on Warrior but the def is lower and likely the res is too.
Oddly specific case you need the right items, skills, and position on a key map to get her going. Most others you slap on whatever you have and run with it. Here you’re forging and engraving, master sealing her and putting her with the best ring
-All S tier units want second/master seal (Kagetsu, Merrin, Pandreo, Ivy, Hort) -All combat units on your team should be getting forges/engraves -She can main tank any of these chapters including endgame on Ike, Roy, Eirika, I tested builds that achieve this of varying SP cost -I am sitting on 3 energy drops in this clip I could have used on her and atm I am on CH18 on this save and no one has received them -She can 1 round on her join map (proven), she can 1 round/main tank CH14/15 and onward and get online over time, or immediately on Lyn Para. -Ike is not the best ring, and she joins with it -You cannot just run other characters casually and expect them to 1 round. Merrin/Kagetsu want forges, passives, second sealed onto stronger classes to 1 round and struggle to do so without these resources, you are just arguing in bad faith because in your mind Timerra is bad so objective proof that she can be good is ODDLY SPECIFIC.
I'm trying timerra in my current maddening run after seeing you rate her so highly but I dont have feh weapons and no gold for forging her weapons and shes doing single digit damage to everyone. I wish she was as good as you make her seem
The Représailles from the Ancient Well free update is probably the best alternative, it has high might and fairly light. It's A rank Lance, so only after promotion. The opinion on Timerra is a bit divided among the Fe community if Timerra is good or not, but you will be the judge if you are satisfied with Timerra's results using these suggestions or you feel other units do her role better.
Agreed, Timerra's concept is great she only needs a bit more stats. If she had any one of 2 more build, 5 more HP, 2 more strength or 2 more speed, she would already escape the trash tier and be on par with other decent units like Alfred
Fensilar +3 is 6 WT, which is her starting BLD on Picket 1, she gets 7/8/9 as she levels. Steel Lance +3 is 8 WT which slightly slows her down. Well Lance is 8 WT at +3, 7 at +4. Javelin is 9 WT, can be -1/2 WT with engravings as well. She also has quite high speed and can easily double with SPD+3-5 and 1 round most early C14/15 enemies on just Fensilar +3/Ike.
They should of given her a steel or killer lance, they do a poor job showcasing her with the gear she has in her opening chapter and it's a pain to reach her before she fights anything if you don't have a warp staff. This time it's not the unit IS messed up it's how they introduced them.
I dont get intelligent systems, they give all the other units weapons they want or need to showcase their abilities on their joined chapters.. and they give timmeras team(with the exception of merrin) crappy weapons that hinder their performance.
Engage is a pretty easy game to fix units in, but Timerra isn't all too interesting. Lance locked foot locked in her main classes. Sandstorm is a fairly underwhelming proc skill in the same vein as Luna to just prop up her poor offenses. Like yeah you can give her Fensalir + 5 and x y z and she'll be fine, but so would most units. It's not like Timerra is super unique in her ability to kill stuff when given resources. People tend to not give her resources because if you don't give her a bunch of stuff on her first map she is very underwhelming. Chapter 11 through most of Solm already give you a boatload of good units from Ivy, Kagetsu, Pandreo, Fogado, Panette, Merrin, Hortensia, Seadall. And combined with Solm dropping deployment slots a lot I find very little reason to actually use Timerra in runs. I've used her before and she was fine enough. As I said before, Engage is pretty easy to fix units (mostly stemming from Emblems being so game changing that just having one makes a unit so much better).
All units need fixing of some kind, so that’s not a knock on Timerra. Ivy is extremely resource intensive for what people consider an S tier. Kagetsu still relies on crits late game. The problem is that needing resources is considered a negative for some units and ignored for others.
On what planet does Kagetsu need to fish for crits to do things in late game. Ivy does want a lot of resources but she also Flies, has the best weapon type in Tomes, and has Staff access so giving her those resources pays you back pretty well.
Levin sword is better than Bolg. Swordpower hits 1 rounding breakpoints easier for fewer resources crafting-wise. Even at SP3 most fast magical units can 1 round consistently on Levin. Bolg typically gets forged to +3 which vs Levin 5 is +1 more damage and damage fixing it with passives is not as easy. You can also generally get at least 1 unit to sword power 2-3 from the early game, could be run on Anna/Clanne/Framme and just bond that unit and the game plays itself. Ivy takes way more to get online and TBH Bonded Anna MK or Clanne MK with SP2-3 is way stronger/braindead. Framme can be the bonder and also 1 round with flashing fist +3 sigurd engraving. She will 1 round most low-lower med def units and once she gets Lunar Brace 1 she can 1 round almost anything in the game to recharge bonded. She levels herself to 10 from staffbotting/chain guarding without any emblem and is one of the free-est utility units in the game. She A supports Anna/Clanne too. Ivy issues are she needs serious speed fixing or external speed help, she needs hitfixing, she has flyer weakness, her MAG is lower than Citrinne/Anna at the same level. If you switch Ivy to Mage Knight: IL 20 Anna vs Ivy: Ivy has the same SPD but +1 BLD, Anna has +1 mag At IL 30: Anna has +4 mag/2dex and +1 Speed Ivy has +2 Bld (So basically +1 speed overall) At IL40: Anna is +5 Mag/dex, +2 SPD, +12 Luck Ivy is +2 Bld (Same speed, but lower mag/dex) And that is on Mage Knight, if you keep her on Lind it looks like this: IL 20 Mage Knight Anna VS 20 Lindwurm Ivy -Anna +3 dex, +4 Spd, +7 Luck -Ivy +2 mag, +1 BLD, +7 def 30: -Anna is +1 mag, +5 dex, +5 SPD, +11 luck -Ivy is +2 HP, +8 def, +2 Bld (-3 spd) 40: -Anna is +2 Mag, +7 Dex/SPD, +14 Luck -Ivy is +2 BLD, +10 def, +2 HP. So if we keep Ivy on Lindwurm, pound for pound, Anna overtakes her magic stat slightly on mage Knight and is slightly better early on (easier chapters/early middle) but loses out to Anna's accuracy, speed, and magic growth. Anna's luck based proc passive also makes you money. TBH Outside of fast play, Anna is just better than Ivy for your team, she is also faster and does slightly more damage. If you run Ivy on MK, Anna has more Dex/Mag over time and the same speed at 40. The health difference on the same class is Ivy is +1 HP/4 def on MK so she isn't even a tanky MK, Lind is just tanky.
It's so easy to "fix" Timerra that her haters look really, REALLY stupid when they insta-bench her lmao. Imo Roy is her best emblem because with the Binding Blade and some tonics she quite literally out stats every enemy on nearly every map for the entire rest of the game. It's basically like playing Awakening with how braindead easy it is execute.
Probably nitpicking and double standards. Units they like get resources, this unit does not. Units they like get XP and in some cases Explicit XP farms, this unit not allowed to do those things etc
@@IcedCoffeeGaming It's too bad since Timerra's statline is so fun to think about. Wonder how stuff will stand in 5 years or so. Engage was a lot to digest at once and midgame is particularly frantic to pick apart.
timerra isnt bad BUT she joins in solm when u have short characters slots per chapters, amazing characters like pandreo, merrin, pannete, seadal, kagetsu to add in your team + your old team. Besides that, she can use tiki to gain more levels and better growth rates if u really want to use her (bc she need gain levels to try to keep up with your army), latter on, she can crit and one shoot any enemy besides armors and great knights but the others characters really doesnt need that babysit to shine later on, just a small push and they are 1000 times better than her.
Babysitting = clearing an entire half side of the map on their own also you don't have to use those units btw obviously they are better but not every single playthrough has to using those units every single time, he's making a case for her being easy to use, and she doesn't need to keep up with stats at all since a trained Timerra has good bst overall
@@migu6528 i think u dont understand what im saying, u can make all units viable in engage (even the bad with some effort) BUT some units NEED time to keep up with the spd/atk or def tresholds, sure, timera with ike can stand alone there in the bush but she cant even one round the bow knights and most of ur army can do it with 0 investiment, like i said, timerra needs time to contribute in your army (thats why u suggested tiki emblem to give her hp and stats, in dragon form she can proc sandstorm too, and most important gives her +15% growths she appreciate (bld str spd def) it to late game bc she works better in lategame, oneshoting enemys with sandstorms and crits. the whole point is she cant contribute that well when she joins and need exp and lvls to keep up with the enemys in my last run i change class to all my units to see some news strats and wyvern timerra was "ok" (for timerra)
Timerra and Fogado are A tier potential if you know how to use them and invest into them, never S tier because there are better units and using them won't make the game easier for you. Clanne and Chloe are similar too, A tier potential if you use them correctly. S tier should be reserved if the unit can and will make the game easier if you use them. ~Vander is S tier for the very start of the game since he functions like a tank that sets up kills for your early game units; falls off the face of a cliff after the Yunaka chapter, but S tier before that point. ~Alear is S tier because you have to use her. Also, she has the best passive in the game and needs no exp to be insanely useful, plus is a dragon for Byleth dance (playing normally). ~Framme is S tier because she starts out as your only healer / support and she has the growths to really pop off as a carry, with a very good passive for herself and Alear to go with their speed growth. ~Louis is S tier because he is an immortal wall that also hits like a truck, and even more tankiness with his passive. Plus you get him very early on, so you can get him 10 levels of better growths with level 10 master seal. He stays S tier the whole game as long as you know how to use a General. ~Seadall S tier because he dances. Plus his free healing passive and stat buffing passive just for doing dancer things. Requires 0 exp. ~Veyle is S tier because pretty good passive, she is a dragon, and really no one better to slot in at the final army expansion. ~Anna can make the argument for S tier because of her gold generation passive. Yes she has really good growths too, but so does Boucheron, and it is easier to get Boucheron to level 10 than Anna is (Boucheron be A tier). ~Hortensia can make the argument for S tier as a pure utility with 5 staves on her default class, zero investment, zero exp, super staves support unit. ~Lapis Wolf Knight avoid tank build, S tier, Micaiah engraved silver dagger and she has a ton of supports and a great passive for this with the highest speed growth in the game. Plus early availability and can use A rank swords as a Wolf Knight. She is better at this role than Merrin is, Merrin I put as A tier. [S tier should be reserved for how irreplaceable the unit is and/or only that unit can provide a role that no one else can. Timerra is a worse tank than a General, and can make kills like Louis with good RNG Sandstorm procs or does no damage otherwise.]
If i showed u a video of fe6 sophia clearing out a section of a map would u say shes a good unit proving the haters wrong? You say this is base timerra, but its timerra with a master seal, speed+3, bond rank 10 with Ike and 2 seperate costly forges. You place in her a highly selective scenario - one in which there are zero chain attackers, to prove that somehow shes a good unit whos misunderstood. You go into almost zero intrinsically positive qualities about her that other units dont have. Dont get me wrong, your videos do a good job showing off just how malleable fe is, and how sufficient game knowledge and planning can payoff in ways that are not normally intuitive. You truly do have alot of experience with these games, and that experience has lead you down how to figure out how to make even bad units work, but thats all this really is. I think that is ultimately the crux of your bias and flawed criteria on assesing units. sorry if im being combative btw. I like ur content overall, even if i disagree with u.
Timerra is GOOD IMMEDIATELY and can even main tank as soon as you get her. If you hand her Fensilar +3 she literally 1 rounds things on her join map before you master seal. On C14/15 at LV1 picket she can easily tank on Ike and 1 round a lot of enemies with SPD+3. I demoed her main tanking Lyn para archers Early (Something that is not easy to do) as an example of how out of the box she is. Somehow you conflate this performance with feeding. Tanking =/= feeding. Feeding is setting up kills for a weak unit who cannot stand on their own. Tanking is absorbing a high volume of enemies, damaging/killing them and surviving. Timerra is a main tank the instant you get her, and as she gets online she snowballs. She has 4 S tier strength builds and typically the people who claim she is bad will half-ass run her with no good forges/passives/emblems then write her off. Every unit needs forges, emblems, passives to function. All s tier units outside of Seadall want master/second seal. Kagetsu/Pandreo/Merrin need forges, emblems, passives, and second seal, Hort/Ivy need master seal. Ivy needs serious speed and hit fixing to function. If we blatantly ignore the startup costs of one unit but then emphasize them on another because it is convenient we are being hypocritical and applying a double standard mentality when evaluating units. You can assert I've arrived to unit power conclusions through bias, or look at how I play the game, which is evaluating everything, fact checking everything, and testing builds against eachother to see what is actually good vs what is not.
@@IcedCoffeeGaming To put this into persepective I just did your exact demonstration but with Bunet instead of Timerra. I gave him Ike level 10 and and Tomahawk with Lyn engrave instead of the spear. He performed exactly the same, clearing out the left side of the map with ease, picking up some good levels along the way. To be clear, if I made a video saying "Bunet silences all the doubters" it would be the same exact thing as this. The reason why I wouldn't do that, and still think Bunet sucks, is because he isn't worth deploying over anybody else in the game, because the positive intrinsic qualities are almost zero. Similarily to Timerra, the only noteworthy thing is a slightly higher def stat than some of the other joiners at the same time.
@@DoTtA1123 Oh hey, I actually also did the exact demonstration using a base lvl Bunet with that setup minus the Ike bond lvl 10 but with a Lucina Engraved Tomahawk +3 to 2HKo the bow knights. I was also able to do it with a lvl 11/1 Great Knight Louis. The only thing this proves is that the bar is too low if even Bunet and underlvled Louis can clear this bar as Great Knights, we need to raise the bar higher to seperate S tier units from the average/below average units
I tried to make a similar argument on Reddit waaaay back when they were doing their efficiency tier list when they were saying she was worse than Bunet. It’s basically free to transfer a forged Fensalir over to her by turn 2, which solves both her damage and her speed issues (since they start her with such high Wt weapons).
Bunet’s pros vs cons:
Has extra Mov; ok bulk **vs** takes up a deployment slot; can barely ORKO unpromoted enemies WITH investment; gets doubled by all promoted enemies.
Timerra’s cons vs pros:
Is weighed down and is low damage, so struggles to kill and survive the multiple attacks from the fast fliers **vs** does not take a deployment slot; cons are fixed with just a forged Fensalir which is easily traded to her; comes with Ike equipped; decent bulk when not doubled.
By their own admission, the Fensalir isn’t especially desired by any of their units. Chloe uses it early on/pre-promotion, and Amber (the only other Lance user they argue keeping past Ch11) is usually better off with his Killer or forged Steel/Greatlance. Once Chloe has promoted (assuming Griffin or Wyvern like they were), she can be switched to the Represailles which is also cheap to forge at the start with similar damage and no weight penalty.
Next chapter, with just a Master Seal (so not even gained any levels on the previous chapter and MSs also aren’t in much demand now that the best arriving units are prepromotes), she is fast enough to double and ORKO all unpromoted enemies on the map with the Fensalir and just a +2 SPD bond ring and +2 speed meal (I made this argument because that is literally no investment. They say you should get that type of meal every map anyway, and a bond ring is practically free (one of the Heroes ones does it)). Bunet on the other hand, he still can’t ORKO any non-promos, and he gets doubled/ORKOd by quite a lot of the promoted enemies, so idk what they’re smoking over there
Timerra when I got her was disappointing until I realized just how much her weapons were weighing her down. Gave her lighter weapons and her and Alear pretty much carried the game. They were practically immortal while together.
I read that title as "Timerra is BETTER than you"
Still fits
I think arts would've been a better main weapon focus for her. Fits her build stat, more chances to proc sandstorm, and let's S rank lances be Alfreds thing
She would have been broken! That is why Alear has bad magic growth because their passive also benefits from hitting more and having that on an unbreakable brave weapon... they would have permanent engage.
Timerra absolutely one of the characters that benefits from a Build Inherit from Leif.
After you pick that up, you can pretty much slap the Ike ring on her and watch her go full Darude like it's the early 2000s.
Or Lyn for some funny procs on the Engage attack.
Alright fine I'll play Engage AGAIN!
Bubbly chocolate princess arguably best tank. Plus nothing beats the feeling of when she gets a sandstorm and crit at the same time
Ah, good. I was concerned my Timerra might have been blessed since she had no issues while everyone said she was bad.
Ran Timerra Ike on my most recent run. Absolute beast tank with gentility+ and spd 5. Endgame she did baby damage without sandstorm but she didn’t need to lol, tanked everything and let my carry’s get kills. One of the MVP”s for sure
When Timerra first said "I fight for my friends", I lost my shit.
Ngl, I enjoyed using Timerra so much during my latest run; easily my star unit. Sandstorm feels like Luna on a bulky frontline unit and with Sigurd she can scream around the map and Sandstorm crit everything. The only downside is that her voice lines with Sigurd are lacking, because asking if this love is a crime mid-bloodbath makes me happy.
I wish Engage blew up in popularity so your knowledge and dedication to this game would net you more recognition.
@@PetraMacnearytop tier b8 m8
Let’s go a positive Timerra vid!
Some of the arguments I see against 'bad' units is people essentially claiming that giving weapons or rings to them is too much investment, or that giving them one of your 13 engraved weapons (+6 essentially at the start of the game with DLC) makes them bad. Or that 'requiring a master seal' is bad. You cant have a conversation with these people.
Diamant is someone I see people hate on because he has 'accuracy issues'. Okay, when? "All the time". He has a +15 hit passive, and until he caps his skl, he has comparable hit to Alear, and any other early game unit. Give him a forge with +hit, there are 8+1 of them. I've been running him with Ike and an Eirika Hand Axe, an engraving basically only an Ike user would want, and he shreds everything. Timerra is even easier to use.
Yeah Diamant isn't bad tbh. He can Ike main tank well on Successor, I do want to see how he does with a Byleth Backup who is DEX+10ing him.
Reddit opinion is actually the purest result of the game designers’ work
Etie one shots fliers with her iron bow on her joining chapter so people think Etie good, nevermind the fact that next chapter she needs iron bow to still one shot them and that there aren’t fliers until Alcryst arrives
Then Timerra has a terrible set despite her stats and just needs the appropriate stuff and a promotion, so people think she’s high maintenance when you can just swap her stuff with Amber’s and she already performs
Props on the game design team I guess for gaslighting the community
It is more about efficiency and optimized gameplay.
Long term Timeria is s lot better then Etie because she has a role that isn't easily replaced mainly being high defense character with enough speed to avoid being doubled by many faster enemies making her a better tank then those who can only use Great knight while eventually not able to occasionally 1HK without a crazy set up.
Meanwhile Etie has high strength but so do others and she has bow proficiency which is like cool but also whatever.
However in an optimized run Timeria isn't being used past her join chapter and her efforts in that chapter are mostly using Ike to destroy obstacles. She joins where you have a lot of options and slots in a optimized run are tight. Also at this point a pure tank is unneeded do to Lucina bond shield set ups and eventually wrath/vantage and Corrin terrains
Meanwhile Etie is a filler unit but important because she is useful for fliers and even when Alycryst joins having two in his and next few chapters is good.
You use her for the first part of the game then drop her
Reddit tend to be super optimized and efficient so they look at characters through that lens which warps things
never have I agreed more with a video title.
You know after seeing how easy it is to get her Fensalir on her join chapter and seeing the results I'm convinced she's broken
Timerra is amazing. I run her with Sigurd and gave her brave lance. Sandstorm procs all the time and she just annihilates.
30% of the time, it works every time
@@tricky2795lmao checks out
"Haters Gonna Hate"
Me who never knew she existed: -__-
Does a video about Timerra but only pops off after Clanne gets a crit. Clanne is S Tier as well?
Really good Video, maybe I should play Engage again and look at the Timerra Sandstorm Stonks.
I find Timerra really good because she fixes my bad positioning. She is just reliable, even if you put her in a bad spot she will live and is very forgiving to use. Merrin, Ivy, Pandero, Panette and Kagesu all die if they are caught in a bad position. People just say uhh just play better but that is why I love Timerra she makes Maddening super easy since often times she holds half a map on her own while I recover from bad rng or just bad positioning.
I don't usually have Fensalir available because that's Lapis' prf. I get her lvl 3 Well lance with either sigurd engraving, Celica engraving or Lyn engraving. I think she performs better with the well lance since she that way gets absurd crit evasion and almost never gets crit even by crit weapons
Well lance, steel lance, fensilar are all great weps for her at +3 forge
@@IcedCoffeeGaming Would you consider doing tanking using her on leif with a weightless spear? I've been trying to find an actual niche for leif that isn't vantage sweeping
I know it comes far too late in the game, but I absolutely love giving Timerra a Lucina-engraved Brionac. It’s heavy, but I usually give Sigurd to Timerra anyways for more movement and build.
So on my first run of the game on the hardest difficulty I had no idea what I was doing and I had to reset at chapter 17 as I could not get past it. During my second playthrough I learnt a lot about the mechanics of the game, but I also invested a lot in Timeara who was my main tank and single-handedly one a few missions.
Timerra was one of my most wanted units on a personal level and as she wasn't showing results, I feared that she was another niche pick that required a lot of resources poured into her in order to make her effective. This video was pure catharsis for me. I just needed more effective use of resources like making lighter weapons to make her speed come into play a bit more and give more chances for Sandstorm to trigger. Thanks!
Idk giving her arguably one of if not the strongest combat emblems and having her steal a weapon one of your other units was using on her join map isn’t exactly easy. Especially since half the time by the time she’s caught up to your party the map is over because it’s generally easier to beat that map with all stuff acquired by hugging the left wall and going down after first dealing with the enemies hiding in the fog between her group and allear’s so they don’t die because they are horribly out of position. Grouping up where she is and clearing a path from there makes the map harder so she genuinely just doesn’t get the chance to trade a lot of the time because she just never manages to group up with the rest of your squad. You’d have to warp someone over to trade her the spear ( which it’s not like she’s the only good user of it) or intentionally leave someone behind which you’d basically be not having that unit contribute vs the the 2 bosses. And not 1 rounding is kinda bad for an ike unit immediately. How do you get to the point where great aether 1 shots non armor non boss enemy types ( wolf knights paladins ect) without rng which is where you want your Ike unit to be. A unit not taking much damage with Ike on isnt good literally everyone can do that. A good Ike unit you can just throw them at a large group of enemies and they are all gone next turn.
"Idk giving her arguably one of if not the strongest combat emblems and having her steal a weapon one of your other units was using on her join map isn’t exactly easy. "
-Stealing a weapon? Are we missing how the game functions in that units are given forges we plan on using. Why is this stealing a weapon when other units get it for free. Is it stealing for me to forge Kagetsu a killer axe? No it is just forging a weapon and this is a silly argument. She starts with Ike on her join map, not that many units can main tank on Lyn para post 13 this easily. I'd love to see you post proof of this if you think it is truly that easy to pull off.
"Especially since half the time by the time she’s caught up to your party the map is over because it’s generally easier to beat that map with all stuff acquired by hugging the left wall and going down after first dealing with the enemies hiding in the fog between her group and allear’s so they don’t die because they are horribly out of position."
-This isn't the only/best way to beat this map, there are a lot of different tactics to use on this map.
"Grouping up where she is and clearing a path from there makes the map harder so she genuinely just doesn’t get the chance to trade a lot of the time because she just never manages to group up with the rest of your squad. You’d have to warp someone over to trade her the spear ( which it’s not like she’s the only good user of it) or intentionally leave someone behind which you’d basically be not having that unit contribute vs the the 2 bosses."
-With the right team/starting positions you can easily kill the initial group and push this position. I do this on most of my runs and it is not hard to do. I have never needed to warp someone, and you can control the map entirely by never breaking any junk so you own the map if you know what you are doing. You can even isolate the 2 ranges over rubble, kill them, then break the junk to initiate the boss fight whenever you want.
"And not 1 rounding is kinda bad for an ike unit immediately."
-Which units are 24+ Speed post CH13, lmk am interested in this.
"How do you get to the point where great aether 1 shots non armor non boss enemy types ( wolf knights paladins ect) without rng which is where you want your Ike unit to be."
-You can go for great aether 1 shots, or you can just enemy phase on axe/sword/lance power and 1 round off of speed and MT/crits/sandstorms.
"A unit not taking much damage with Ike on isnt good literally everyone can do that. A good Ike unit you can just throw them at a large group of enemies and they are all gone next turn."
-I'd love to see proof of this. Let's see Citrinne on Ike do well, or Etie on Ike solo as many enemies as Timerra. You are ignoring Timerra's high Def/high speed making her passively very tanky and able to absorb more combats than most if not all other units in the game. People praise Goldmary who by the time you get her, will have lower def/str than Timerra for her def (in reality they like somthing else about her : ) )
I mean giving her the weapon on join chapter isn’t needed at all, lvl ups on her don’t matter until she promotes, which she can’t do until after the join chapter. He was just showing stat wise she is useful on her join chapter as far as fighting goes, she just has worse equipment than the average unit that you’re actively using. Giving her an engraved/forged weapon makes up for the difference
@@IcedCoffeeGaming for one pretty much any unit can reach 24 speed when factoring in lyn skill inherents mercurius and Parthia michiah ect. I’ve literally got a 31 speed etie just after that on my current maddening no dlc file right now just from Parthia In bow knight with Lucina and speed taker which would be 25 with speed +5 instead of taker ( there’s enough fliers to one shot that speed taking is easier though so I prefer taker on bow units ) Etie’s normally a “slow unit” so if she can do it most units can. The about 5 extra levels Parthia contributed towards can make a massive difference. Timmera’s just around less to abuse such less. Also even without that both her retainers can reach similar thresholds. Merrin’s faster then a promoted timmera by base and pannette in a speed class with similar speed support will also reach similar benchmarks (she’ll need a slightly better bonuses from food/bond rings but she gets more consistent damage the ability to use forged axes for great aether her steel dagger will have as much crit when her skill is active as timera had with the lyn emblem there crit boosting is generally more consistent on her shooting for 100% crit isn’t really unrealistic. ) so for pretty much the same price you get more damage more move more crit which gives more Ike synergy by pairing well with wrath at the cost of what worse supports if you wanted to do dual avoid stuff on your Ike tank which can’t dodge stuff half the time anyway? Honestly if you wanted to use her Dual avoid build Is the way to go her support list is really good and Ike actively turns that off so it kinda screws her over just give her another emblem at that point . She can be a part of a invincible bubble and gamble for sandstorm procs If you really wanted to use her. And I suppose I’ll do maddening trying to make etie a tank up to that chapter and then do lyn paralogue but it’ll take a bit. I do have work the next two days. Or maybe I’ll go for cursed hurricane axe great aether tank citrinne. I’ll see what I feel like when I get around to it
idk that kinda sounds like a weird way to beat the map easily when you can just give Ivy a torch and a wind tome and have her destroy every single wyvern knight on ch 13
So you can explicitly feed an Etie with Parthia for several chapters then give her a ton of speedfixing so she can double things a base Timerra on Ike can similarly double, but then when we give any resources to Timerra, somehow she is underperforming and is bad and anyone can do anything she can do, even though she has some of the highest base def/def growth for her speed and can passively tank well on a lot of different emblem rings, without explicit parthia farms?
I've run Merrin tanks on Ike and she can't take as much abuse and takes longer to get online due to lower def up front and eventually has a worse result long term that relies on 30-50% crits to kill on wolf knight.
Panette is very slow and will struggle to double without serious help, she can go for crits but will either be switching weapons to 1-2 range or just get hit at 2 range without counter attack if main-lining crit killer axe.
Chloe Thief had a pretty good result on Ike but had worse average damage/killing potential to Timerra for 1-2 ranging. Diamant on Ike had worse hitrates/on average was a bit worse as well.
Most units cannot reliably 1-2 range on Ike. And if they can they tend to have worse durability. Timerra has very high Def:Speed which is why she is good. She also randomly deals more damage with sandstorm. Overleveling units with Parthia short term doesn't matter unless you LTC, there are so many paralogues you can easily level up all of your units up to points where in mainline chapters you get almost no XP/are overleveled.
Yes speed fixing exists, but to make the argument that some explicitly farmed unit with excess resources can also hit doubling thresholds is redundant/doesn't matter. You are comparing that to something I am investing in less and making my case stronger rather than weaker.
NO. TAKE THIS DOWN!!! THIS DOESNT ALIGN WITH MY BIASES!!! DOESNT ALIGN WITH MY EFFICIENCY GAMEPLAY!!!!!! GRAAAAAAAAAAAA
Timerra always gave me issues for strength starting out. As stated still weighed down easily. Sandstorm comes rather later both for needing master seal lv5 and her dex still is not astronomically high proc until later levels.
The early brave weapon for ideas for quading are heavy and require player phase. Poor enemy phase.
At the end of the day, the rng arpect of sandstorm hurts to use. Ive come to appreciate the higher hitting and slower units because speed fixing is much cheaper to do than str fixing.
I still like timerra. Use her every time
I got now timerra with Hector, inherited Resolve and pair up from Corrine, gave her a Brave Lance with hector engraving and she’s carrying absolutely everything (maddening)
This describes my first run of Engage so well. I lost a bunch of units to random crits, so I used Timerra as a replacement. She quickly ended up snowballing the game, and became a one woman army. A general who doubles, and potentially ORKO's if half the time? Yes please.
Timera is a god
Yall think so? I think it just depends on the unit. There’s just more tools to fix damage than there is speed because of lance/sword/axe power and Eirika, but sometimes lyn makes it reallllll easy to fix speed too.
Sandstorm seems to proc more than it should statistically and is VERY strong.
I still think Timerra is bad, tanking those bow knights is not especially difficult, almost any unit can do the same with Ike. I've done it with 13/1 General Alfred in my most recent playthrough
But this is a great setup to level Timerra, getting the 4 levels she needs to get sandstorm is imo the biggest weakness of Timerra and doing this does make her much easier to use. Thanks for the strat, I'll definitely do it if I'm running Timerra again in the future
well, I’m convinced
I kind of wonder if it’s your play speed that makes Timerra so good for you compared to others. Just standing there like you do in this video would drive me crazy. Having her on Picket gives her less move and prevents her from getting flight but going to another class drops her stats. You’ve inspired me though. I’ll give her one more try
I mean Brave weapon Sandstorm fishing is good enough with that def stat, given she won’t get doubled by most things. Or you can do this, you don’t need every unit to one round everything.
Okay, that I never thought about, but why would I? I'm on normal, and I'm trying to grind for SP!
really love your guides but i wanted to ask is axe only challenge possible in this game? (maddening)
It would be, I just did a thief only run on base game maddening
@@IcedCoffeeGaming isn't thief only run somewhat easier due to high speed dex (more avoid +crit) , terrain bonus and poison mechanic but axe seems to be high DMG but with bad hit + weight ( speed problems )
The real question is... what is that Chloe I am seeing on my screen. Please I must know, gift me the knowledge oh wise Frozen Caffeination man.
It may be something cooking up.
@@IcedCoffeeGaming Chloe is a whole 3 star Michelin wagyu meal, I shall watch your progress with great interest.
Sage Chloe is legit. Mage Knight Chloe is a thing too. People usually switch towards the end of mid game when her Magic catches up to her Str, assuming she was in griffin the whole time
The Ike tank role sadly can be replicated by many units
I replicated this with just a 11/1 Great Knight Louis with str and def tonic (or just use a lvl 13/1 Louis or a meal) with Ike and a +3 Spear with Lucina engraving
Turn 1 Great Aether to get rid of the Mage,
Turn 2 and 3, tank all the Bow knights that only deal 3 x 2 before resolve and 1 x 2 dmg after
Louis 2 shots all of them, and this Louis is 5 or 7 lvls lower than Timerra doing the same thing but 2 shot instead of 3 shot/rely on a crit.
I just tried this with Base lvl Bunet, even he can do it with a str + def tonic (or use meal) instead of needing a Master seal and +3 Lucina Engraved Tomahawk lets him 2 shot and only take 2 x 4 before resolve and 2 x 2 after resolve
We need to set the bar a bit higher than this, as this is not enough to be S tier material
Timerra Eirika Tank:
ruclips.net/video/V0DVbaTb-wI/видео.html
Timerra Roy Tank:
ruclips.net/video/Ptr3_w1nqrg/видео.html
Lets see Bunet/Louis do that.
As for those units doing this, great. This isn't the only criteria for evaluating Timerra. She can also double and 1 round far into the late game and her startup is not hard to achieve. The slow great knights are terrible against mages and tend to be bad at killing 1-2 ranges. Those two units are also not very high STR and the ultimate build in this playthrough will be doubling on a spear.
Stress test those units against mixed attackers that include mages. They will get doubled and their poor res will actually let the mages kill them through Laguz friend.
@@IcedCoffeeGaming I could probably use Goldmary for it. The idea is earlygame Louis until C11, then bench for Bunet until I get Goldmary so I can have low effort tank unit. If i had to stick to 1 tank unit, there is also Diamant to consider, but I didn't really analysed him enough.
Goldmary has similar base SPD to base Timerra but worse SPD growth and wants more SPD long term. Her base STR is also 17, which is 2 higher than Base Timerra Picket, who by the time you get Goldmary will easily be at least LV5/better SPD/DEF/similar STR but also has sandstorm which procs like this:
25 Dex = 25% chance to see single sandstorm when attacking/43% to sandstorm at least once when doubling.
30 Dex = 30% sandstorm, or 51% when doubling (works on EP too)
35 Dex = 35/57.7% when doubling. So even when just doubling at 35 Dex you are above 50% chance of seeing a single sandstorm which outright kills most things because it is 1.5x your CURRENT def value, which is typically around 40, so you are hitting enemies with 60 STR, even on the weakest weapon unforged typically kills or almost kills.
Allowing at least 50% of her 1-2 range enemy phases to convert to kills by existing.
Diamant Ike Tank is decent on Successor but the speed is lower than Picket, it has hitrate issues as well. I haven't tried him on Warrior but the def is lower and likely the res is too.
was thinking who to make my tank next run. timerra it is
Oddly specific case you need the right items, skills, and position on a key map to get her going. Most others you slap on whatever you have and run with it. Here you’re forging and engraving, master sealing her and putting her with the best ring
-All S tier units want second/master seal (Kagetsu, Merrin, Pandreo, Ivy, Hort)
-All combat units on your team should be getting forges/engraves
-She can main tank any of these chapters including endgame on Ike, Roy, Eirika, I tested builds that achieve this of varying SP cost
-I am sitting on 3 energy drops in this clip I could have used on her and atm I am on CH18 on this save and no one has received them
-She can 1 round on her join map (proven), she can 1 round/main tank CH14/15 and onward and get online over time, or immediately on Lyn Para.
-Ike is not the best ring, and she joins with it
-You cannot just run other characters casually and expect them to 1 round. Merrin/Kagetsu want forges, passives, second sealed onto stronger classes to 1 round and struggle to do so without these resources, you are just arguing in bad faith because in your mind Timerra is bad so objective proof that she can be good is ODDLY SPECIFIC.
I'm trying timerra in my current maddening run after seeing you rate her so highly but I dont have feh weapons and no gold for forging her weapons and shes doing single digit damage to everyone. I wish she was as good as you make her seem
You will need to give her a forge and level her
The Représailles from the Ancient Well free update is probably the best alternative, it has high might and fairly light. It's A rank Lance, so only after promotion.
The opinion on Timerra is a bit divided among the Fe community if Timerra is good or not, but you will be the judge if you are satisfied with Timerra's results using these suggestions or you feel other units do her role better.
Picket Sandstorm is so broken I love Timerra!
Is this maddening? How do you have so much silver to refine that much. My dogs didn’t even give that much to pit spear to level among other weapons
Timerra is 2 build points off from being a greart unit
Agreed, Timerra's concept is great she only needs a bit more stats. If she had any one of 2 more build, 5 more HP, 2 more strength or 2 more speed, she would already escape the trash tier and be on par with other decent units like Alfred
Fensilar +3 is 6 WT, which is her starting BLD on Picket 1, she gets 7/8/9 as she levels.
Steel Lance +3 is 8 WT which slightly slows her down.
Well Lance is 8 WT at +3, 7 at +4.
Javelin is 9 WT, can be -1/2 WT with engravings as well.
She also has quite high speed and can easily double with SPD+3-5 and 1 round most early C14/15 enemies on just Fensilar +3/Ike.
The only issue with Timmera is the same issue as Chloe but one is known as busted lol it's just the low build
Reason I don't use Timmera is s mainly cause her defense spirals out of control because I prefer random growths
They should of given her a steel or killer lance, they do a poor job showcasing her with the gear she has in her opening chapter and it's a pain to reach her before she fights anything if you don't have a warp staff. This time it's not the unit IS messed up it's how they introduced them.
finally, some justice for my girl
Timerra is one of the best units in the game
I dont get intelligent systems, they give all the other units weapons they want or need to showcase their abilities on their joined chapters.. and they give timmeras team(with the exception of merrin) crappy weapons that hinder their performance.
Engage is a pretty easy game to fix units in, but Timerra isn't all too interesting. Lance locked foot locked in her main classes.
Sandstorm is a fairly underwhelming proc skill in the same vein as Luna to just prop up her poor offenses. Like yeah you can give her Fensalir + 5 and x y z and she'll be fine, but so would most units. It's not like Timerra is super unique in her ability to kill stuff when given resources. People tend to not give her resources because if you don't give her a bunch of stuff on her first map she is very underwhelming. Chapter 11 through most of Solm already give you a boatload of good units from Ivy, Kagetsu, Pandreo, Fogado, Panette, Merrin, Hortensia, Seadall. And combined with Solm dropping deployment slots a lot I find very little reason to actually use Timerra in runs. I've used her before and she was fine enough. As I said before, Engage is pretty easy to fix units (mostly stemming from Emblems being so game changing that just having one makes a unit so much better).
All units need fixing of some kind, so that’s not a knock on Timerra. Ivy is extremely resource intensive for what people consider an S tier. Kagetsu still relies on crits late game.
The problem is that needing resources is considered a negative for some units and ignored for others.
On what planet does Kagetsu need to fish for crits to do things in late game.
Ivy does want a lot of resources but she also Flies, has the best weapon type in Tomes, and has Staff access so giving her those resources pays you back pretty well.
Levin sword is better than Bolg. Swordpower hits 1 rounding breakpoints easier for fewer resources crafting-wise. Even at SP3 most fast magical units can 1 round consistently on Levin. Bolg typically gets forged to +3 which vs Levin 5 is +1 more damage and damage fixing it with passives is not as easy. You can also generally get at least 1 unit to sword power 2-3 from the early game, could be run on Anna/Clanne/Framme and just bond that unit and the game plays itself.
Ivy takes way more to get online and TBH Bonded Anna MK or Clanne MK with SP2-3 is way stronger/braindead. Framme can be the bonder and also 1 round with flashing fist +3 sigurd engraving. She will 1 round most low-lower med def units and once she gets Lunar Brace 1 she can 1 round almost anything in the game to recharge bonded. She levels herself to 10 from staffbotting/chain guarding without any emblem and is one of the free-est utility units in the game. She A supports Anna/Clanne too.
Ivy issues are she needs serious speed fixing or external speed help, she needs hitfixing, she has flyer weakness, her MAG is lower than Citrinne/Anna at the same level.
If you switch Ivy to Mage Knight:
IL 20 Anna vs Ivy:
Ivy has the same SPD but +1 BLD, Anna has +1 mag
At IL 30:
Anna has +4 mag/2dex and +1 Speed
Ivy has +2 Bld (So basically +1 speed overall)
At IL40:
Anna is +5 Mag/dex, +2 SPD, +12 Luck
Ivy is +2 Bld (Same speed, but lower mag/dex)
And that is on Mage Knight, if you keep her on Lind it looks like this:
IL 20 Mage Knight Anna VS 20 Lindwurm Ivy
-Anna +3 dex, +4 Spd, +7 Luck
-Ivy +2 mag, +1 BLD, +7 def
30:
-Anna is +1 mag, +5 dex, +5 SPD, +11 luck
-Ivy is +2 HP, +8 def, +2 Bld (-3 spd)
40:
-Anna is +2 Mag, +7 Dex/SPD, +14 Luck
-Ivy is +2 BLD, +10 def, +2 HP.
So if we keep Ivy on Lindwurm, pound for pound, Anna overtakes her magic stat slightly on mage Knight and is slightly better early on (easier chapters/early middle) but loses out to Anna's accuracy, speed, and magic growth. Anna's luck based proc passive also makes you money. TBH Outside of fast play, Anna is just better than Ivy for your team, she is also faster and does slightly more damage. If you run Ivy on MK, Anna has more Dex/Mag over time and the same speed at 40. The health difference on the same class is Ivy is +1 HP/4 def on MK so she isn't even a tanky MK, Lind is just tanky.
Saying Ivy needs more to go online, while in the very same sentence saying MK Anna is braindead is actually the funniest thing I have ever read.
Fensalir is good best Sharena is best girl in heroes. (Sharena > Anna)
It's so easy to "fix" Timerra that her haters look really, REALLY stupid when they insta-bench her lmao.
Imo Roy is her best emblem because with the Binding Blade and some tonics she quite literally out stats every enemy on nearly every map for the entire rest of the game. It's basically like playing Awakening with how braindead easy it is execute.
Ridiculous, reddit told me she's bad.
So now I wonder how this vid would go down on reddit..
Probably nitpicking and double standards. Units they like get resources, this unit does not. Units they like get XP and in some cases Explicit XP farms, this unit not allowed to do those things etc
@@IcedCoffeeGaming It's too bad since Timerra's statline is so fun to think about. Wonder how stuff will stand in 5 years or so. Engage was a lot to digest at once and midgame is particularly frantic to pick apart.
timerra isnt bad BUT she joins in solm when u have short characters slots per chapters, amazing characters like pandreo, merrin, pannete, seadal, kagetsu to add in your team + your old team.
Besides that, she can use tiki to gain more levels and better growth rates if u really want to use her (bc she need gain levels to try to keep up with your army), latter on, she can crit and one shoot any enemy besides armors and great knights but the others characters really doesnt need that babysit to shine later on, just a small push and they are 1000 times better than her.
Babysitting = clearing an entire half side of the map on their own also you don't have to use those units btw obviously they are better but not every single playthrough has to using those units every single time, he's making a case for her being easy to use, and she doesn't need to keep up with stats at all since a trained Timerra has good bst overall
@@migu6528 i think u dont understand what im saying, u can make all units viable in engage (even the bad with some effort) BUT some units NEED time to keep up with the spd/atk or def tresholds, sure, timera with ike can stand alone there in the bush but she cant even one round the bow knights and most of ur army can do it with 0 investiment, like i said, timerra needs time to contribute in your army (thats why u suggested tiki emblem to give her hp and stats, in dragon form she can proc sandstorm too, and most important gives her +15% growths she appreciate (bld str spd def) it to late game bc she works better in lategame, oneshoting enemys with sandstorms and crits.
the whole point is she cant contribute that well when she joins and need exp and lvls to keep up with the enemys
in my last run i change class to all my units to see some news strats and wyvern timerra was "ok" (for timerra)
Try these:
Timerra Eirika Tank:
ruclips.net/video/V0DVbaTb-wI/видео.html
Timerra Roy Tank:
ruclips.net/video/Ptr3_w1nqrg/видео.html
@@matiastorres2553what other unit can stand alone in a bush and solo half the map with 0 investment? Because so far Timerra definitely can
@@shammy7653 zelkov kaguetsu pandreo merrin yunaka (if u train her ofc) any mague with dodge refine (lucina or micaiah)
timerra is cooler than i think
lmao this one is great
Next video: Etie is better than you think.
And probably going to roast her again.
Just change your youtube name to icedBBQ gaming you savage
So you like playing the slots and have a gambling addiction?
Timerra is the character for you!
Timerra and Fogado are A tier potential if you know how to use them and invest into them, never S tier because there are better units and using them won't make the game easier for you.
Clanne and Chloe are similar too, A tier potential if you use them correctly.
S tier should be reserved if the unit can and will make the game easier if you use them.
~Vander is S tier for the very start of the game since he functions like a tank that sets up kills for your early game units; falls off the face of a cliff after the Yunaka chapter, but S tier before that point.
~Alear is S tier because you have to use her. Also, she has the best passive in the game and needs no exp to be insanely useful, plus is a dragon for Byleth dance (playing normally).
~Framme is S tier because she starts out as your only healer / support and she has the growths to really pop off as a carry, with a very good passive for herself and Alear to go with their speed growth.
~Louis is S tier because he is an immortal wall that also hits like a truck, and even more tankiness with his passive. Plus you get him very early on, so you can get him 10 levels of better growths with level 10 master seal. He stays S tier the whole game as long as you know how to use a General.
~Seadall S tier because he dances. Plus his free healing passive and stat buffing passive just for doing dancer things. Requires 0 exp.
~Veyle is S tier because pretty good passive, she is a dragon, and really no one better to slot in at the final army expansion.
~Anna can make the argument for S tier because of her gold generation passive. Yes she has really good growths too, but so does Boucheron, and it is easier to get Boucheron to level 10 than Anna is (Boucheron be A tier).
~Hortensia can make the argument for S tier as a pure utility with 5 staves on her default class, zero investment, zero exp, super staves support unit.
~Lapis Wolf Knight avoid tank build, S tier, Micaiah engraved silver dagger and she has a ton of supports and a great passive for this with the highest speed growth in the game. Plus early availability and can use A rank swords as a Wolf Knight. She is better at this role than Merrin is, Merrin I put as A tier.
[S tier should be reserved for how irreplaceable the unit is and/or only that unit can provide a role that no one else can. Timerra is a worse tank than a General, and can make kills like Louis with good RNG Sandstorm procs or does no damage otherwise.]
agreed but Timerra is easily better at tanking then a general(most units are), and her doing no damage without sandstorm is a complete myth.
This is a good meme. Thank you for this.
Shes easily s rank i think
I come from today's stream. Sorry, but I am a certified Timerra hater
Why?
If i showed u a video of fe6 sophia clearing out a section of a map would u say shes a good unit proving the haters wrong? You say this is base timerra, but its timerra with a master seal, speed+3, bond rank 10 with Ike and 2 seperate costly forges. You place in her a highly selective scenario - one in which there are zero chain attackers, to prove that somehow shes a good unit whos misunderstood. You go into almost zero intrinsically positive qualities about her that other units dont have.
Dont get me wrong, your videos do a good job showing off just how malleable fe is, and how sufficient game knowledge and planning can payoff in ways that are not normally intuitive. You truly do have alot of experience with these games, and that experience has lead you down how to figure out how to make even bad units work, but thats all this really is. I think that is ultimately the crux of your bias and flawed criteria on assesing units. sorry if im being combative btw. I like ur content overall, even if i disagree with u.
High speed and defense, can easily main tank on Ike, Sigurd, Roy, Eirika. The only other high speed high defense unit is Kagetsu.
Timerra is GOOD IMMEDIATELY and can even main tank as soon as you get her. If you hand her Fensilar +3 she literally 1 rounds things on her join map before you master seal.
On C14/15 at LV1 picket she can easily tank on Ike and 1 round a lot of enemies with SPD+3.
I demoed her main tanking Lyn para archers Early (Something that is not easy to do) as an example of how out of the box she is. Somehow you conflate this performance with feeding.
Tanking =/= feeding. Feeding is setting up kills for a weak unit who cannot stand on their own. Tanking is absorbing a high volume of enemies, damaging/killing them and surviving.
Timerra is a main tank the instant you get her, and as she gets online she snowballs. She has 4 S tier strength builds and typically the people who claim she is bad will half-ass run her with no good forges/passives/emblems then write her off.
Every unit needs forges, emblems, passives to function. All s tier units outside of Seadall want master/second seal. Kagetsu/Pandreo/Merrin need forges, emblems, passives, and second seal, Hort/Ivy need master seal. Ivy needs serious speed and hit fixing to function. If we blatantly ignore the startup costs of one unit but then emphasize them on another because it is convenient we are being hypocritical and applying a double standard mentality when evaluating units.
You can assert I've arrived to unit power conclusions through bias, or look at how I play the game, which is evaluating everything, fact checking everything, and testing builds against eachother to see what is actually good vs what is not.
@@IcedCoffeeGaming To put this into persepective I just did your exact demonstration but with Bunet instead of Timerra. I gave him Ike level 10 and and Tomahawk with Lyn engrave instead of the spear. He performed exactly the same, clearing out the left side of the map with ease, picking up some good levels along the way. To be clear, if I made a video saying "Bunet silences all the doubters" it would be the same exact thing as this.
The reason why I wouldn't do that, and still think Bunet sucks, is because he isn't worth deploying over anybody else in the game, because the positive intrinsic qualities are almost zero. Similarily to Timerra, the only noteworthy thing is a slightly higher def stat than some of the other joiners at the same time.
@@DoTtA1123 Oh hey, I actually also did the exact demonstration using a base lvl Bunet with that setup minus the Ike bond lvl 10 but with a Lucina Engraved Tomahawk +3 to 2HKo the bow knights. I was also able to do it with a lvl 11/1 Great Knight Louis.
The only thing this proves is that the bar is too low if even Bunet and underlvled Louis can clear this bar as Great Knights, we need to raise the bar higher to seperate S tier units from the average/below average units
You dodged two attacks in the beginning definitely rigged
And she's still the 2nd worst ukit in the game. I kneel
According to who, reddit tier lists?