CLASS TIER LIST 5? MADDENING
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- Опубликовано: 10 янв 2024
- #fireemblem #fireemblemengage #feengage
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After 1800 hours in Maddening here is my engraving class tier list for Fire Emblem Engage.
If you think something is too high/low make a strong argument and you can change my mind :). 
Игры
Double commenting to defend Vidame a bit. Celine is the freest Thoron poker in the game. Her bases + Celica access let her carry early game and contribute into the midgame when stronger magic carries come online. She gets early Canter access, and by the time Corrin rolls around, she can easily swap over to a utility role. Her support list is great (Chloe, Kagetsu, and Fogado being the notable ones), and her personal lets her contribute healing even if she spends her turn Thoron poking. Because she has 50 speed growth in Vidame, you can swap her Thoron over to something like Elfire to prevent her from being doubled, and she's not paper thin like Citrinne (her main competitor for this role) so she can eat a strong hit. Vidame also has B rank staves, so she can still use Warp and Rescue, and her high Luck means you can slap on Divine Pulse for extremely reliable Freezes and Silences. All this means that you get the benefits of a support and Thoron poker without committing a stronger magic unit like Ivy and Pandreo to that role. Easy B tier, if not A.
One thing about Alear that I always forget is that they are not Byleth and by the time I realize that they are already dead.
Yeah, Alear is like glass, which is the same for like 70% of the lords in Fire Emblem
Right 🤣🤣🤣… or Ike he was one beefy boy.
Thank you for labelling the icons/classes. On so many tier lists (like spells or weapons or so on), there's the pixelated icon, but no name. Captioning the icon makes the video easy to follow. Great video!
Thanks for doing this - your insights are valuable.
Honestly i do think you are underrating Veyle’s personal class a bit . She comes with enough starting sp that you can inherit speed taker out of the gate, and and shes a magic user that can reap the dragon bonuses for corrin and byleth
For byleth, she gets extra mag and spd, she can give out those sweet +3 instructs and goddess dances, and with her high mag and decent strength she can do good damage with vajar-mushti and creator sword
For corrin, she gets extra mag, access to thoron draconic hex/dreadful aura, +1 range on tortential roar, and access to all dragon veins.
Theyre both niche uses cases but i think its something imo
"Is Hort even in S tier?" Can't wait to see the Reddit thread on this one.
I love the consistency of the release schedule. I really appreciate the info. If you want additional video ideas, lemme know.
Avenir being the worst class in the game is pretty ridiculous. The thing about Alfred on Avenir is that he always has "just enough" spd; as long as the weapon he's holding isn't weighing him down, enemies that can double him won't hit him hard enough to care, and enemies that can hit him hard enough to care won't double him (and this tidbit will be important to remember throughout the comparisons later in this post). This makes him one of the tankiest units in the game, because he has some of the best dmg mitigation outside of Louis and Jade.
To put it into perspective: as much as Ivy gets praise because "oh she's so tanky", Avenir Alfred has roughly the same spd/bld as Lindwurm Ivy while being far more physically bulky than she is (actually he even has more def than she has res). So if Ivy is a case of "you just have to spd fix her", Alfred would be in that same boat (except technically speaking spd fixing Alfred isn't actually necessary either).
Alfred suffers from the same issue as Timerra does in that people want to use the strongest weapon on them as early as possible, ignoring the fact that it's weighing them down, and then being like "see they're getting doubled by everything on the map, they suck". It's like "no, you're just using them wrong".
Alfred vs Diamant vs Timerra - a stat comparison:
ALFRED lv10/1
HP 32 | STR 13 | MAG 4 | DEX 13 | SPD 9 | DEF 13 | RES 8 | LCK 13 | BLD 7
DIAMANT lv11/1
HP 34 | STR 15 | MAG 4 | DEX 14 | SPD 14 | DEF 11 | RES 6 | LCK 11 | BLD 10
So right off the bat we see that Alfred has more def, res, and lck between the two, meaning he's already more of a safer option between them when it comes to being pushed by enemies.
ALFRED lv13/7
HP 39 | STR 18 | MAG 4 | DEX 16 | SPD 14 | DEF 19 | RES 10 | LCK 18 | BLD 8
DIAMANT lv13/7
HP 41 | STR 19 | MAG 5 | DEX 16 | SPD 18 | DEF 15 | RES 8 | LCK 13 | BLD 11
TIMERRA lv18/3
HP 37 | STR 16 | MAG 7 | DEX 19 | SPD 21 | DEF 19 | RES 11 | LCK 12 | BLD 6
The seemingly random comparison here was made to see how they compared to Goldmary when she joins. We can see here that Alfred has already pushed ahead of Diamant in dex, and compared to Timerra his def/res are almost identical (and on top of their def stat being the same here, Alfred already has access to Golden Lotus, meaning he's already tankier than she is).
Also of note: Diamant's spd/bld combo is already higher than Timerra's, and at the same IL this will always be true through to endgame.
ALFRED lv13/20/4 (aka IL 35)
HP 52 | STR 26 | MAG 5 | DEX 23 | SPD 22 | DEF 29 | RES 14 | LCK 28 | BLD 11
DIAMANT lv13/20/4
HP 56 | STR 27 | MAG 7 | DEX 21 | SPD 27 | DEF 24 | RES 12 | LCK 18 | BLD 14
TIMERRA lv 18/18
HP 47 | STR 22 | MAG 11 | DEX 27 | SPD 29 | DEF 26 | RES 16 | LCK 17 | BLD 8
We can now see that Alfred's base def has surpassed Timerra's, and his bld is letting him use heavier weapons with less penalty. This is why the claims that Golden Lotus is "rng tanking" are blatantly false; Alfred is naturally tanky by default, he's just using Pavise for some extra mitigation. This can even mean that a unit that can hit him for 1 will still attack him, even if that 1 gets turned into a 0.
We also see that Diamant's spd keeps up right behind Timerra's, but the bld gap widens. So essentially, before taking any investment into consideration, Diamant is naturally faster than Timerra.
And, going into the final chapter:
ALFRED lv13/20/9
HP 56 | STR 29 | MAG 5 | DEX 25 | SPD 24 | DEF 32 | RES 15 | LCK 31 | BLD 11
DIAMANT lv13/20/10
HP 61 | STR 30 | MAG 8 | DEX 22 | SPD 30 | DEF 27 | RES 13 | LCK 20 | BLD 16
TIMERRA lv18/20/2
HP 49 | STR 23 | MAG 12 | DEX 29 | SPD 31 | DEF 28 | RES 17 | LCK 18 | BLD 9
To the end we see that Alfred's str even stays on par with Diamant's. And on top of Alfred's and Diamant's hp stats, Lotus and Sol respectively make them decently tankier than Timerra. Lotus will even proc about as often as Sandstorm (especially if you invest in his dex at all), and his lck makes him way less likely to deal with crits.
So while Timerra on Picket benefits from Sandstorm being a broken offensive skill, as far as survivability is concerned, Alfred on Avenir and Diamant on Successeur both surpass her in that regard. Avenir also has the benefit over Great Knight of not having Armor weakness, while also not needing to rely on positioning for bonus mitigation (though tbf Great Knight's +3 can apply to res as well).
Alfred and Diamant also have much of the same flexibility with emblems as Timerra. Lyn works for both (as she does for most [if not all] tanks) as they benefit from the dex/spd/res bonuses. They can also use Sigurd and Ike decently well (Lotus even stacks with Laguz Friend). Alfred, like Timerra, even benefits a lot from Leif since he gives hp, def, and bld; plus he has the benefit of not being lance locked when not engaged to make use of Arms Shield. Alfred also benefits from Eirika since she gives dex and lck as well as Gentility. Alfred also works with Roy since he gives hp, str, and res, nevermind Hold Out; and his growths combine nicely with Rise Above as well.
Alfred on Avenir is definitely one of the most slept on units in the game.
I can see the use case, he does require more XP to get online vs the other units because he has to level up more so he competes with other early game units and his start is kind of rough overall. He is a growth unit that can be like B/A tier performance in a sea of A/S tier tanks.
The class itself vs paladin:
Lv. 5 - Lv. 10 Noble => Lv. 1 - Lv. 30 Avenir
⚙ Fixed Mode
HP 55 | Str 29 | Mag 5 | Dex 24 | Spd 24 | Lck 30 | Def 32 | Res 15 | Bld 11 | Mov 6
Lv. 5 - Lv. 10 Noble => Lv. 1 - Lv. 30 Paladin
⚙ Fixed Mode
HP 55 | Str 29 | Mag 3 | Dex 29 | Spd 27 | Lck 24 | Def 27 | Res 15 | Bld 10 | Mov 6
He gets +3 SPD/5 dex on Paladin with slightly worse tank stats which helps address his SPD/hit issues which are present on most of his builds. Diamant just needs hitfixed, Alfred wants both and even with speed fixing, outside of Lyn he is not doubling very well on Avenir compared to Diamant/Timerra.
I remember why I put it low:
ruclips.net/video/fQYQQiPYjAk/видео.html
I tested it and invested in him fully at IL 40 his stats are quite poor and even on Lyn with SPD+4 as a passive he struggled to double, the tanking was not competitive with better options. I could bump it to B tier as a main tank I guess, I think in the current build of the game C/B is actually fair.
I feel like the super high density of physically defensive units combined with the utility of having 3 range on anyone makes magical classes really strong in this game. Same goes for classes with physical defense. Louis, for example, is good because until the damn near end game there's usually 2-3 enemy magic units per map.
Something a lot of tier lists tend to miss with this game is the enemies you fight. Like, what is hard and what do you have to prepare for? Like, in maddening mode, you need to prepare for lots of high defense units with decent attack and usually a handful of super dangerous flyers. How do we handle this? Physical walls backed up by a few really strong player phase units.
The hardest maps in the game tend to subvert that with enemies that either spam freeze (ch 11, the lava map) to screw with unit placement or field large numbers of dangerous magic units (temple map where you fight Mommy stands out).
For everything you said around 39:00 about Anna, she is by far my best unit on my Maddening run, up through Ch 25 currently. I’ve used her on runs before, but she is absolutely broken right now with levin sword, mage knight, byleth. I put pandreo on sage with Corrin which is useful for the fire tiles, but kinda wish he was also a mage knight lol
Anna’s growths are so potent. Makes her a must pick
@@TheBoodercg additionally, I don’t find her early investment to be that bad because the other units in the early game are worse. Alear and Chloe carry, Yunaka can def help early, and Framme heals. So it’s totally fine giving Anna more attention early and then she ends up being god like
For divine dragon combat builds, it gets pretty good bonuses when engaging with Roy. +1 bonus level offsets any stat disadvantage the class has, and getting 2 ranks of blazing lion damage can be a nice bonus in some maps. Since Alear already has good speed and defense on divine dragon, this build can also tank a bunch of enemies with Binding Blade.
Glad to see the two classes I never make use of in the S tier: Mage Knight and Wolf Knight. Definitely stuck in my own box of how to play.
I almost never use Second Seals, and typically always use units in their default Master Seal class. Clanne on Mage Knight puts in a lot of work.
Despite the fact that Wyvern Knight is under Griffin, I absolutely would rather face an enemy Griffin Knight. Enemy Wyvern Knights are infuriating.
From my experience I had worse time facing griffin knights due to their huge speed and good bulk in both defenses. Enemy wyverns can't withstand my magic units
@@miguelgarciabegines4134 My problem was that Wyverns tended to have heavier damage weapons, and I tend to have abysmal luck, literally got hit by a 7% and 2% back to back today. So if I miss a Wyvern that tends to be my ass. If I miss a Griffin, as long as they aren’t hitting someone like Etie I’m probably fine
@@goroadachi9489Yeah, for enemies, I 100% agree. On player, you can fix whatever issues you need for power, but enemy offenses will really quickly start to overwhelm defenses. And unlike us, they don’t have to be careful. If they roll that 7% enough, that Silver Axe is going to kill someone eventually.
At least Longbow Warrior Etie on my files often get that 1 shot in Griffs with some hitfixing. Wyverns skirt the line a bit since sometimes I cant get to them and can’t afford to let them get 1 turn in.
With how enemy classes work, there are some bad or weaker classes for the player that the ai can just ignore their weaknesses since they are suicidal asf.
@@DemonVermin All I know is, I thought I was gonna just plop Louis somewhere around a bunch of Wyverns and skip turn expecting him to just kill them all with a forged Silver Great Lance. Not only did they survive, they beat the ever living hell out of him. I decided a new strategy, in moving him back and having a dodge tank go in, 8% hit rates, got absolutely one shotted. Rrolled RNG, got one shotted again. My favorite part was the skirmish I went through where I was surrounded by Wyverns and Fog of War
Remember: optimal classes for you and optimal classes for the enemy tend to vary sometimes. The enemy’s units are disposable, so high damage units with suboptimal but powerful weapons are valuable on them; not so much for you. After, all that matters for them is that YOUR units eventually die.
Just found this channel cause I just picked up fe engage (late I know) and was curious if you would make a big video about some good builds for each character. I will soon be doing a maddening run and want to be equipped the best I can, since my three houses maddening run, while I did complete it, was not pretty at all. I’m hoping to do challenges for this game at some point since I really enjoy its gameplay and would like to make some of my favorite units like Louis without dlc work well, since Louis tiki I’ve found to be very disgusting and also very funny to see his voice lines come out when he’s a dragon
Alright, now we wait for all the haters to shit on Picket being S tier
@PetraMacneary
So Picket S tier but Timerra, the only unit that can use it, bottom tier? How does that make any sense?
@PetraMacneary
Maybe the reason why ICG thinks Timerra's good is because of her class. Just a thought. Also, she doesn't join late at all. She joins around the mid game. Also, you could get her online immediately without promoting her to Picket. Just give her a refined weapon and she can cook as early as her join chapter.
@@PetraMacnearyShe doesn't require sandstorm. Timerra can do reliable damage if you give her a refined weapon. Don't believe me, watch ICG's pervious video though I doubt you will because it'll end up proving you wrong. So stay coping bro.
@@PetraMacneary He also admitted that the rest of his entire team was over leveled so I don’t see how it’s just a problem for her.
@@PetraMacneary Also once again, if the game gives you resources, you are more than welcome to use them. If you don’t want to use the resources, then fine. Play with your self imposed ruleset.
3:14 icl, Bow Knight is one of the few classes that Etie is usable in. The glass cannon that she is, she really appreciates the high mov, and dex and spd are both issues for her which are patched somewhat by Bow Knight.
Especially if you give her Canter before you begin chapter 10. Lance/Sword proficiency is generally recommended if you can forge/engrave it to a point where the weight matches her build.
Bow Knight with Sigurd and an Ike engraved Brave Bow are the way to go with Etie.
I’m currently doing Thief Etie with a Micaiah Dagger and she’s already doing better here than in archer. Covert makes her a dodge tank which is her only way to survive attacks, daggers are good for poison stacking and her insanely high strength growths gives you enough flexibility when you start using terrains.
And if you really want the extra move, Wolf Knight is also a great class for her. Etie is deceptively good with daggers, try her out!
“But math disagrees” 🔥
I think sniper is def where it belongs, but the skill goes unmentioned and I find that maybe the best thing about the class. I used Yunaka on sniper once (skills: brute force & bow focus, skills you usually never use) and she popped the fuck off. Claude bond ring for range +1, killer bow +5 corrin engraving, she killed everything except armours. Insane build but sadly only playerphase
I am pretty sure Fogado's best class is Mage knight and not not his personal. I'm curious if you ever tried it
This may be true but you can't get him on the class until you get Micaiah back after beating CH19. So he has CH20 onward mage knight availability.
He can levin/radiant bow on his starting class and do pretty well for low investment overall too though so that is something.
I just like this list cuz it has my favorite unit Timerra on S tier lol
Anna as a Griffon knight with a Levin sword is OP with a high avoid engrave with sword power, not even sure you need anyone else if you can get Anna strong enough to 1 round KO on counter, generally avoid tanks are best and Griffon knight does that best plus they have the best speed and dex and can heal each other with staffs. As a solo class or even just a bunch of them together should be over mage knight who need more support like chain bond only reason they survive is because enemy AI choose to attack the mage instead of the one chain bonding since they have weaker stats, kind of funny since on Maddening enemies know not to attack people with 0 hit chance.
Timera on theif was the best
I think the one class I disagree on is Swordmaster.
Running Swordmaster as "Intended" I think low B is totally fair, but I'd make the argument that Swordmaster is the 2nd best non magical class at leveraging Levin Sword (after Wolf Knight) and the ONLY effective Backup unit that can do it (Hero can do it, but its really bad).
Lategame, the 25 magic cap hurts, but midgame its not a bad choice to speedfix Citrene (Griffin is obviously better at that) and if you toss it some damage fixing and/or Dual Assist it can put in work at all stages. 38 Matk at 1-2 range before engraves or passives on one of the fastest classes in the game, with chain attacks is absolutely better than a halberdier, and I'd make the argument that its around the level of Diamant in A tier, if only because while its generally outclassed by other Levin users, it DOES have the advantage of being the only chain attacker that can hit on res for meaningful damage, and that's at least a niche.
Griffin knight's stat might look beautiful, but throughout the gameplay I don't found any suitable place for it. You can't even expect Griffin knight to deal with Sage due to it's low Str growth.
Every single time I've used Griffin Knight *cough Chloe* she basically obliterates a quarter of the map by just doubling with Rider's Bane/Killer Lance.
I don't see how Royal Knight is A, tbh. Who's using this class? Paladin is better for mounted physical combat, Mage Knight is better for mounted magic combat. If you're running it for staff access, it only has C staves, so it can't use Warp or Rescue. Pandreo is maybe the only unit who could run it well because he has the build and magic for Flame Lance, and staff proficiency for B rank staves. But Pandreo would rather be in Mage Knight or Griffin for combat, or Sage for combat/utility. I guess Reforge might be useful for saving a break on enemy phase, but Chain Guard and Bonded Shield can do that, too. I dunno, I just don't see a use case for it over any other class for any unit. Its strengths are spread too thin across damage, utility, and tankiness. Might need to just run it on a couple units to see. I'd put it down with High Priest.
I'm gonna be completely honest on the units with tome proficiency high priest isn't a horrible class (could be better yea) but being able to increase a units lck growth by 30% and still have 25% magic on the class is really cool
Royal Knight is exactly the same as Griffin but on the ground. It can't levin sword though
Anytime i plan to use Vander past the early game i reclass him to Royal Knight.
cannoneer? enchanter?
In defense of Avenir (which is exceptionally rare): It gives Alfred a really good luck growth, so if you're intent on using him in an ironman context, he becomes the one unit who never faces random crit chances, which is far from irrelevant.
But yeah it's overall worse performances.
Literally any unit with a Celica engraved weapon can do the same, but admittedly that’s mainly used for the lower weight on low build units than for avoiding crits.
hottake, Paladin is better than wyvern knight. there is some odd shenanigans going on where they survive for me way more often and are similar in speed. No I am not talking about flier weakness even when i keep wyverns away from archers they tend to die alot more often on me, I am not even sure why this is the case.
Could it be because you’re using Pivot effectively whereas you’re having a hard time justifying the use of Air Raid?
I’m not going to hate on Picket because the fact that it can fix Timerra’s bases is good in itself. However, the math you were doing of Kag Warrior v Timerra Picket was not even close to right. At IL 24 (reasonable for 17) their Res is identical and it will take Timerra until Kag caps to pass him on Res. Even if both are Res capped Kag will stay ahead on HP by at least ten points. Picket’s Res cap is 26, 10 points higher than Warrior. Unless you are facing a Mage squad the 5 point of damage difference is not going to matter. It takes Timerra until IL 53 to cap Res even with 3 Talismans. At that point Kag has 18 more HP than her. Against that 56 Mt Thoron Kag dies in 4 attacks. Timerra also dies in 4 attacks. Kag takes more damage, but onto a bigger health pool. I’m not saying Kag Warrior or Timerra Picket are better with Ike (both are pretty bad compared to Bonded Shield or Lucina/Micaiah Engrave double tanking) but I felt the need to correct the math.
Yeah it looks like the math averages out due to high HP difference. She can absorb slightly more magical damage and in some use cases (emblem dependent) survive an additional magical attack or take less damage than him.
How is using Ike bad compared to Bonded Shield/AVO tanking? Bonded is one of the best tanking things in the game and I made early vids explaining why tanks are useless but they still help you clear maps faster/easier as you have additional units who can stop the flow if incoming enemies. AVO tanking can be great but you can die if they can hit you as the AVO tanks tend to have poor durability, all die to chain attack spam. I view AVO vs Mit tanking as trade offs. On one hand enemies will always attack mitigation tanks, and if AVO gets too high they will ignore the avo tanks. On the other, if carefully managed, AVO tanking reduces average damage, but is susceptible to random stray low% hits getting through and killing. It also struggles with the variety of enemy hit rates ranging from 100-170 accuracy, so you need to manage each AVO stack in order to get enemies to attack you, while mitigation tanks always get attacked.
Hopefully people will be able to see that Successeur is one of the more salvageable classes in engage since you can easily slap on a Lucina engraved Tomahawk as early as chapter 12 assuming you master seal him by then.
I find also that giving him speed +5 also allows him throughout the mid game to remain viable with Ike as you mentioned. He also really likes Gentility.
Lyn engraved Tomahawk is also an option because that gives more crits and more crits means better Sols.
@@shannonjones8877 That is true. Axes typically have might to spare. Though I usually give the Lyn engraving to a Killer Axe since it already has built in crit to begin with.
Try mage knight pandreo with elfire (if u want to invest a bit u can forge a bolganone early bc pandreo is top 3 characters in the game) with lucina engrave and u have the most broken unit avaible
I put Diamant in A tier as a tank, I believe he has some other builds that may be S but I haven't tested them yet. I am thinking him on Roy using Binding Blade could be really good. Roy also boosts his dex slightly when engaged.
@@IcedCoffeeGaming Hopefully whatever it is you have in mind works out. From what I remember people used to be pretty hyped for Diamant thinking he’s going to be amazing but then proceeds to look at his capped stats and see that his dex is really low.
Shortly after they felt he is overhyped and easily replaceable because Kagetsu exists. Don’t get me wrong Kagetsu is an amazing physical unit when invested, but there is always something about Diamant I think anyone could still make work even on maddening.
Break Defenses for example combos pretty well with Fair Fight provided that you are going to break an enemy with WTA. This would need at minimum a novice book and an expert book assuming that you leveled him up once normally accumulating 100 SP.
From my experience, put marth on successeur Diamant late game once you get Georgios. He can nuke an enemy’s health bar with Lodestar Rush. Very handy for endgame, especially if you refine and/or give a might engraving to it.
If you put Alear's class in S for the dragon instruct on Byleth, shouldn't you do the same for Veyle since she arguably does that role even better since she is a more magical based unit anyways??
Poor availability I assume since the class is tied to veyle so you only have it for like what? 3 chapters? (ignoring DLC fell children anyway) instead of having alear in divine dragon in early mid game and can start dragon instructing as soon as you get byleth
Veyle joins so late there's only really one thing to do with her if you want to use and it's the broken vantage hold out build with the DLC emblem.
I never understand why people trash defense scaling DPS heroes. It’s literally a fast damage unit that takes low damage, with minimal investment
Isn't Vidame just strictly a better class in almost all scenerios than Sage? It has better stats, the same staff rank, only misses out on Nova for tomes, and has swords for some funny things like Mystical Lodestar Rush and Override. Celine isn't the best unit but Celine in Vidame will always be a better unit than Celine in Sage.
Vidame has very bad magic compared to sage, her speed will always be a problem because of very low build, both of them will struggle to double and the easier options is just for them to be a thoron bot, in which case the higher magic Sage provides makes them better
I see Celine's Vidame as like a Red Mage of Final Fantasy they are a cobination of Physical Damage, Magic Damaging and Healing Magic. That is what a Red Mage is. So she is better in some regards
There is a RUclipsr by the name of Final Fantasy Union that does class history if you want to watch that
@@DARKMalice9000 problem with mixed units is that they trade excelling in one area for flexibility, but you don't really need single flexible units, you have more than enough slots to bring units that can specialize in every needed niche.
@@ProtoTypeFM That is true but if you have just about every bases covered. What if you would need one more unit that could be flexible.
Kagetsu Paladin w/ Tomahawk (awakening) is a godtier tank. No weaknesses.
It has horse weakness to be fair, but enemies don't usually have horse slayer in Engage for some reason
Solid list only real issue is bow knight and Cupido being tiers away. They should be right next to each other. They don’t vary enough for them to be that far apart.
Well cupido has better growths in everything except luck and a marginally less strength growth. Also bow knight has a significantly lower magic cap making radiant bow way weaker (you trade like 5 magic cap for higher 3 strength cap on bow knight which ain't worth it).
@@aidanderson53X radiant bow is solid but I’m not using it for every enemy type. Very nice for wyvern’s but for literally any other enemy type I rather use another bow for better damage. Like a brave bow with lunar brace. That will clear out a general better than a radiant bow will. And just most enemies in general. I think radiant bow is aight and has its nice moments but definitely don’t think it’s all of that. I rather have higher strength for any other bows. I’m not near anything right now but I know the growths between these classes are not crazy different and neither are the base stats. I think it’s crazy to have big of different for such slight differences
@@princeofpeace6432 that's fair, tbh it's probably mostly weighted highly because fogado is just really good for 0 investment whereas you actually have to make a bow knight work and honestly you could argue warrior is better for a strength based bow unit since it can enemy phase way better and ike tank on top of being flier killer/chip damage. Like bow knight competes with crit goddess panette and speedy kagetsu who have one less move compared to bow knights. Honestly the upside of mounted movement isn't that big in this game.
@@aidanderson53X hey I agree with you I just think the spacing between Cupido and bow knight is ludicrous. The classes have very similar growths and bases. They should just be next to each other. Let’s also not act like requirements to get someone into bow knight are crazy high unlike other classes.
At this point i think he is trolling us, mages martial monks royal knight general diamant and fogado class better than bow knight ans alcryst and veyle class??? this is a war crime
Veyle is much stronger on other things. She could be used as a utility on her default class for dragon boosting. Her join chapter she is ringless so you get her for 4 mainline chapters and 2-3 paralogues
@@IcedCoffeeGaming she is the best soren user, join with enough sp to learn hold out and hit+10 or vantage, with corrin or camilla engrave on her personal tome she get 100 crit. Ok she is bad in her joining map but she can solo the rest of the game.
If u dont use dlc, she is the best user of corring emblem ans provide alot of utility.
So with soren s tier
With corrin at least a or b
thanks for going back to bad don't like the viable slot tbh because yea technically everything can be viable but still
This man's ivy bias is showing.
no mage cannoneer?
yeah where are the dlc classes
Berserker is better than warrior simply for the fact that the warrior outfit is ugly. Berserker should be SSS tier. Bows ruin the vantage + wrath enemy phase domination and the stat differences make no effective difference when you're guaranteed to one-shot everything as a Berserker.
i really do enjoy ur content but theres no way ur subs let you get away with making the same video 5 times
Tier lists are fun to watch and his opinions change overtime
I made these videos at 200/500/1000/1300/1800 hours playtime testing different builds.
@@IcedCoffeeGamingI like it I don’t think enough people who make tier list revisit them. IIRC you slept on framme and qi adepts in general in the early tier list so it’s nice to know your opinions actually change
Celine's class growths are not very good that is why you think she is slow. Celine as a character is fast though and she can use physical swords, plus ignis when it procs adds a good amount of damage (and each proc of leif's ultimate can proc ignis).
She is the fastest Bolganone class in the game. Very high avoid because of her speed and luck, but you probably will feed her a 1 or 2 speedwings to bring up her speed to off set the class growths.
I think your logic on dancers is oversimplified. Yes it’s true they use their turn to give someone else a turn, so it seems they are necessarily the worst. But that logic seen through, would put them bottom of the tier list entirely, not bottom of S Tier. Your other argument “dancers are useless alone” could be also made for healers, generals, and a lot of classes. Most units can’t solo so would be unviable.
In argument for the dancer: If i have a near full team. A few tanks, healers, magic users, a few bows, fliers etc. adding another 1 more of any of those, offers very little value. But adding a dancer effectively offers me 1 more of all of them as and when needed. The versatility and adaptability of the dancer, turn by turn, makes it S tier, and arguably better than most classes.
Dancers are only as good as the things they dance, so they rise to the bottom of the highest tier of units or possibly alongside them. In Engage, anyone can byleth dance and there are a ton of broken EP builds that kill more than dancing a unit can so only in niche use cases like challenge runs are dancers objectively better than other options.
All of Ivy's stats are worse than Celine but 5% build.
Now that i learned that luck gives hit and avoid in engage, celine's really high luck growth does mean something with her speed allowing her to be an avoid tank while having a better character and class passive, and actually can use her str growth on her default. Celine can also use Leif well which is a ring no one else wants and build fixes her, her hybrid growths lets her use any weapon well and ignis procs modify that further. The heaviest weapon she would use is thoron which speed doesn't affect anyways.
Also Defense and Resistance and Magic and HP
@@goroadachi9489 celine has hit, avoid, and speed and makes full use of a leif's ring which barely anyone else can use, which also gives hp and def with celine's high res.
So she doesn't need to consume engraves, does not need Lyn (which is way better on a high strength user so that the ultimate can one shot an annoying mage, plus it makes a high strength like amber able to double/quad on warrior).
She is a fast speedster that is also not consuming valuable resources from others other than a couple of speedwings (which are not highly contested). Ivy is S tier as long as you give her Lyn, speed+5, Bolganone+5, give her all of the best engraves on every tome or she cant hit anything while babying her with qi adept bonded shield and then she becomes a real unit :^) real S tier quality right there!
Celine's class growths are not good, her character growths are very good however. She has great might for a fast unit, the only units that are better are clanne and alear which are slightly faster, same str, but way less magic growth.
Plus her own character passive is pretty good, significantly better than Ivy's. Ignis is also significantly better both because it gives way more might when it procs and since the dex cap is a lot higher than ivy's class it will also proc more often as well.
By the mid game, Celine got like 30-40% enemy hit rate range on elsurge against most units without any engrave, 1 speedwing, only a bond ring equipped (Leif wasn't unlocked). Celine got decent supports as well.
@@MasterStacona 30%-40% hit rates are not good at all. Second, Ivy is good on other emblems, Lyn is just her best. Third, obviously she will need an engrave just like any other hard carry.
@@goroadachi9489 Those are what the enemies have on her, and elsurge is infinite hit rate. Her hit rate on the enemies are pretty good, bolganone is 100% usually and thoron is high 70%+ without standing by an unit with a support (most of celine's supports give hit rate; thoron has lower hit rate at base - much better than ivy's 20-50% hit rate range with thoron)
You stick something like lucina engrave with her, she would be 0-10% instead of 30-40%, and this is mid game without the growths really kicking in. She just becomes a full on avoid tank at this point, but if you plan to use leif and engage on him, then you can use these engraves for someone else unless you want to veronika engrave the elsurge since no one else will use it.
@@MasterStacona 30%-40% is not good dodge tanking. Certainly not something to waste Lucina on. Just give it to a faster unit who can reach single digits or 0% on a bonded shield. Also unless you are trying to hit something in cover, Ivy’s Thoron is not 20-50%. And literally any high damage carry needs hit fixing in some form.
Royal Knight Tier A tier hahahahahah, I'm fucking dead. It's the worst class in the game and it's not even close. At least Swordmaster and Sniper are usefull for LTC.
It is literally griffin knight but on the ground
@@IcedCoffeeGaming It is literally griffin Knight but not flying, with a bad class skill, with way less speed and locked in the worst magic weapon in the game. So yeah again why using this class?
SSS (Transcends time and space to rule the galaxy once more):
~Sommie [The good boy needs no explanation.]
SS (Insanity [Only One Class]):
~Dancer [Super Carry x2 Actions.]
S (Fantastic!):
~Rafal's Class [Dragon perks and recharges engage metres for your allies is insanely good! Rafal has the best dragon class.]
~Alear's Class [Dragon perks are nice to have (the good passive is character not class).]
~Veyle's Class [Dragon perks are nice to have (the good passive is character not class).]
~Nel's Class [Dragon perks are nice to have.]
~Axe/Lance General [I can make Etie and Panette tank hits, Swap can also come in handy at times too. Reality, high strength, defense, and HP wall that can also nuke their target is really strong if you know what to do and who to make as a general. Engage's overall movement being lower really benefits Generals.]
~Wolf Knight [Makes for fantastic avoid tanks because of their high speed with pretty good utility with the -2 movement debuff and adds extra might for your army with poison stacking.]
~Celine's Class [Stat growths are not great for the class, Celine's character growths are pretty good. Advantage to her class is that she is the fastest class that can run Bolganone and Thoron and Ignis procs does technically make her have the highest might tome speedster, plus she can equally use physical swords to take out high res targets with her perfectly hybrid growths, and can avoid tank well because of the high speed and luck.]
~Sage [Thoron, Bolganone, and staves. Great for your magical damage and providing support utility with the staves.]
~All Griffin Knights [Very fast, can fly, somewhat decent passive at times (which is worded terribly), while still providing staves utility.]
A (Great!):
~Enchanter [I love this class, fantastic support with poison stacks from daggers and can break bows/daggers/tomes with fists, very unique support class as well; plus daggers provides a ranged physical option for the fists. Framme can really pop off on this as a super carry with the very high speed cap and able to use Flashing Fists. Very low base stats and stat caps outside of speed cap being high.]
~Martial Master [Good support and can pop off as a carry with Eirika ring.]
~Timerra's Class [Decent at tanking that can sometimes kill units.]
~Fogado's Class [Only above bow knight because the speed and magic caps are way higher.]
~Hortensia's Class [Fantastic support-only class to rock a 5 staves build, no exp required and can sometimes save on stave usage. Might be able to make an Elsurge avoid tank build work for this with all of the speed and luck she gets, especially with an avoid engrave (Elsurge strongest tome you can wield for this).]
~Warrior [Axes for might and bows for fliers, plus a backup unit, good growths and decent caps, high base strength.]
~Sniper [Highest dex, very high dex growth, with a crit passive all results in very accurate to hit the griffin knights with and other high avoid unit and fantastic to go with crit builds on. Fire Emblem law is usually, if you crit, you kill.]
~All Wyvern Knights [Stat growths and caps are really good, has a good passive, but does not have a place in the game at all and instead of giving it a proper role in the game they left it to be bland and made its stats too good instead. Hopefully they address Wyvern Knights in the future, even if they end up being flying Generals, that is at least something to place in a spot of their own.]
B (Average):
~All Bow Knights [Pretty good class, passive is useful sometimes. This is a good class with good base stats, great growths, and pretty good stat caps.]
~All Great Knights [It is a worse general in both base stats and growths, and can be broken, only advantage is that you can tank magic damage very slightly better with the passive and +2 move on generals. Overall fine, but great knights kind of just exist.]
~Hero [Decent for extra damage from chain attacks, better if the character has expertise in either axe or lance so they can use a tomahawk or spear.]
~Swordmaster [Very fast and they can avoid tank. Why do they have this passive? They can chain attack at least.]
~Mage Cannoneer [Needs work and more cannon variety, and the coin flip aspect needs to go for the support cannons and just be if the attack lands, then it will apply the effect. Pretty good support class overall though.]
~Ivy's Class [Flying sage only reason to ever run Ivy.]
~Thief [It is fine, wolf knight is way better.]
C (Why Does This Exist, but Fine Otherwise):
~Diamat's Class [Fine I guess. Would be better if Sol was way more reliable even if they had to nerf the healing it gives per proc, but you could make this work. There are way better tank classes though.]
~Mage Knight [You can run this and do fine with it. The problem with it is that you lose stave access to either be a slow griffin knight with no flight or a lower magic sage that cannot use Nova.]
~Sword General [Needs a ranged physical sword, technically post game Alear could make this work.]
~Alcryst's Class [Worse Sniper. Relies on RNG just to deal damage with Luna procs. Snipers rely on RNG too, but their RNG just kills their target outright and do it on a better character than Alcryst.]
~Halberdier [Why does this exist? In order to use their passive you have to play in a really weird way when another class can either one round or one shot the enemy unit without doing a weird song and dance for it. It is fine outside of that.]
~Paladin [It was fine.]
D (Bad):
~Berserker [If this passive was something like "Smash weapons can strike first, but no longer knockback." (still cannot follow-up) and the +1 knockback on smash weapons was moved to a high defense supportive class, then Berserker would be A tier with everything else being the same since then it would have a role of being all about highest strength class with the highest might weapon just one shotting your target.]
~Alfred's Class [Very bad base stats and can only tank with RNG. Alfred has good growths however with a decent passive, so if you make him a warrior or general he will be much better with even better growths, general if you want to be a reliable tank.]
~High Priest [Bad sage. Bad passive. If the S rank stave was good then maybe this be higher, but at the same time S rank weapons are so late into the game and most of them are so bland that I don't know they exist.]
F (Actively Hurts You If You Run This Class):
~Royal Knight [Growths are good, basically a more defensive Lance Griffin Knight, but the passive is not just useless, but actively makes the game harder for you because you take damage with no benefit.]
Anna is a bad mage knight because the luck cap is low.
Also Mage Knight is not good.