For all the people who don’t understand why he put the fights he did, He did it on purpose to show that literally any fight (not the original trilogy) can and is better than the fights in the sequels.
The sequel trilogy fights fit perfectly in unison with the prequel fights. Director wanted the fight to be more realistic as real sword fights don't last as long as ep. III was. Also Rey wasn't a dueling God like obi-wan or ani who spent their entire lives training instead of Reys short training Montage. Just wouldn't make any sense for Rey to be a better fighter untrained than any of the prequel jedi
@@almightykingpin6322 that's what I'm saying. The fights were made intentionally "worse" because of above stated reasons. You'll also note that kylo was an awesome fighter against the red guard as well as the knights of Ren. They couldn't showcase that level of ability against Rey or she woulda lost immediately and that would be movie over.
@@jamesfaust7434 I can totally agree with what ur saying but I just think if they woulda introduced rey in the first movie of hers as a girl who had it hard in life and carried like a bat or baton or something that can resemble a lightsaber she could have shown more instinctive fight moves against kylo and the overall fight scenes coulda more aligned with Kylo being trained and being better but Rey holding her own as fighting for the entirety of the rebellion. Not disagreeing with u just kinda not too impressed with the directors ability to expand the box in which they thought from, hv a good one
It’s awesome how Kylo Ren, who has been training since he was a teenager, is at the same skill level as a girl who picked a lightsaber two weeks ago and her only form is Baseball Bat form.
@@theexplodingDarkrai I think he was a little older when he turned but I could be wrong. Still he’s been training for years and Rey hadn’t even heard of a lightsaber like a month ago.
@@abyssano78 We can't really confirm that. He kinda just has hearsay and rumors for his power and might. He could have been only Darth Maul level for all we know. And we never will because Legends is dead as a doornail unfortunately.
@@austinkersey2445 personnaly i think that a guy that's called the lord of hate and put an enormous monster guy in stasis is pretty powerful, plus, he is class, and have an armor, so he is obviously powerful
Let's remember that Christopher Lee was a masterful swordsman both on and off screen. He still holds the record for most number of swordfights in film and personally designed the curved lightsaber hilt. If anything, he was woefully underutilized.
Sorry to burst your bubble but Christopher Lee was replaced with a double for all his lightsaber duels with an early deep fake face replacement check thd bonus features if you don't beleave me
@@Ep4368 ohh a spelling mistake don't piss your pants! And I told you my source the dvd blu ray extras. Lol you pick up on a tiny spelling mistake but miss the answer to your question. There's no disputing his sword fighting prowess but by the time atoc came along age had the better of him. He did close ups but the more intricate moves was a double. This isn't new information most star wars fans know this.
“If you were to face an ancient Sith Lord in combat, you would learn that we are as children playing with toys compared to the prowess of the old masters.” - Traya
If Rey joined Kylo, this is how their awesome training would have gone: Kylo: ~ throws lightsaber-resistant baseball ~ Rey: swings for home-run. Kylo: yes, that is the way.
@@daggercatz7297 she's the character that essentially functions as your character's master at start of Knights of the Old Republic 2, she's called Kreia at the beginning of the game though.
The original trilogy was more just Vader having his own fighting style and Luke not really having proper form yet even at the final fight but he used the dark side to give himself more strength. The prequels were the most civilized time of lightsaber combat and it makes sense that it’s easy for them to wield it and spin it around. Then the sequels have someone who has barely trained a year who is already more powerful then rotj Luke and she can stand up to the literal grandson of anakin Skywalker who has been trained by snoke and Luke for years.
u actually have no idea how powerfull of a sith he was..it was presented this way simply becouse of his sheer superiority in speed and skill that he owned those 2 jedi...this scene should have been done in slowmo for the jedi tbh...mace windoo could hold against him OLNY becouse of his unique fighting style..i highly recommend goin deeper into lightsaber fighting styles, its insane
TOR's dueling scenes always hit unbelievably different, even the small things like how the guy threw the saber to save his partner, so much technique conveyed in the scenes
@@sparklymop swtor is the game but kotor is the first game of the franchise so some just call any game or books from the old republic after kotor. it is what it is.
@@FatalCorleone07 wish it was for xbox sense the original was only for xbox so it makes sense but it’s whatever i’ll hopefully have a ps5 by then anyway
@@dorksaber4451 I did find it weird that the franchise switched console brands but hey..even with the Xbox Series X SUPPOSEDLY the most powerful system out, on paper, games still run much better on the PS5, so
There's a RUclips video where someone edited the Obi wan Vader fight in A New Hope with new fx and it's sick Here it is ruclips.net/video/to2SMng4u1k/видео.html
The book says he does some sort of Sith power scream when he does that move. It made the weird-ass twirl he did even funnier since it reminds me of the Power Shriek off of Adventure Time.
@Ahmad Cole he is freakishly scary in the Darth Plagius book. If you haven't read it check it out. I am not into reading Star Wars novels, but that one was entertaining.
Hot damn that throw to deflect Malgus was smooth AF. I miss these cinematics. I wish We could get an animated series in the style of the old republic trailers
Freezes the saber then proceeds to hit the saber even though she had a wide opportunity to strike him down Edit: Resolved, don't add another argument, chances are its already in here.
The Jedi had to not only be focusing on his fight with a Sith Lord and not die but also focused on the fight his apprentice was also involved in. And did so to such a degree that he was able to throw his lightsaber in a split second just before his apprentice could be killed, while not leaving himself compromised and vulnerable to his opponent for too long. That is insane when you really think about it.
It feels like the latter fight was choreographed for longswords or other heavy weapons, disregarding that lightsabers weigh next to nothing in the Star Wars franchise
@@brianp6859 Well no, of course not, you only fight like that if you find yourself drunk in the jungle and you're trying to hit a monkey with a large branch
@@shiloallard186 Absolutely, it's a stout chunk of metal in your hand with barely any leverage, which I feel is consistent with the prequels, especially the duel on Mustafar, where they had a bunch of incredibily quick moves by simply twisting their wrists, whereas actual swings like when Anakin fought Count Dooku were a bit slower. Always keeping in mind, however, that the actors in those scenes actually had physical blade-like protrusions of some sort of polymer from their hilts, while the fully animated fights in the games had "proper" lightsabers with the blade weighing nothing. And despite being a huge fan of Star Wars, the physics nerd in me always thinks of the blade as being made of plasma rather than light, even though you can't "focus" plasma using any crystal, Kyber or otherwise.
To be fair, it does track with the timeline By the sequels all Jedi masters were dead aside from Luke Skywalker, who himself was only a master of form 5 and wasn't formally trained in lightsaber combat by another Jedi So it makes sense that certain proficiency in lightsaber combat and force prowess were lost to time
@@Ebamber3 de esa manera entonces Ben debería de usar la quinta forma de combate o como mucho la séptima al ser un sith, pero Rey... No tiene entrenamiento ni para el Jujo aunque la tía esa sea una Mery Sue :v
That's not a prequel thing, it's a made up thing from comic books after the prequels, Ewan McGregor himself said that the choreography of the fights didn't follow '7 forms' and that it was all just made up, so assigning certain forms to certain characters from the films isn't real
The first duel was the best. Kylo wanted revenge for the Resistance blowing up Star Killer Base, he absolutely wrecked Finn in like 48 seconds (Would have been faster had he not been hit with that bow caster bolt), and you could tell that he was a better fighter than Rey until she let the Force guide her.
This just shows that the academy was needed because one master teaching every Force sensitive kid can have a diminishing and limiting effect on their learning. Many masters open the imagination, trains the varied talents, and helps the learners Much More than a single master -- even of Luke Skywalker's stature. Good thing for The Sequel Force users that none of The OG and Prequel Force wielders were around to show what they would've done to them. haha
Those old men ... that fight looked tacky, but at least you knew why they were fighting and the result of their fight changed the course of the next two films. Obi-Wan was the last surviving Jedi we knew about, the last chance for Luke to learn the ways of the force. At the time, it's pretty damn suspenceful storytelling. Fast forward to the Disney sabers, half the extras are fighting the air, zero training Ray is on par with a trained and experienced combatant. Old heroes and new villains are killed for no reason, old villains are resurrected for no reason. Lightsabers are given crossguards for no reason, i mean what the hell. The old men fighting still worked because it was built up by the story. Would have been cool with more choreography, but I don't think I'm crazy defending it over the sequels ... but that's just me so whatever
@@MinecraftMartin Most importantly, they were dealing with technical limitation at the time. They were pioneering the tech themselves and weren’t able to go full force. You can see how much more intense the fights are in 5 and 6 due to advancements in their saber tech
The only reason you view that fight as "abnormal" in the setting is because *later* installments tried to make Jedi and Sith more bombastic, even ESB and ROTJ, not needing to go to the Prequels to look for an example. I cannot consider the ANH fight to be flawed simply because it is slower paced than what the franchise *later* became. As far as objectivity is concerned, there is nothing wrong with the fight in ANH being as slow as it is, and the flaw lies in *subsequent* media for trying to ramp up the action in a setting where the action always already established to have a slower pace. If writers want the fights to be faster *after* that first fight, then it was on *them* to come up with a consistent lore-friendly, in-universe justification for either why the ANH fight was so slow, or why *every OTHER fight* was *faster.* Logic will not allow for A New Hope to take the fall for the failures of it's successors.
Whoever choreographed the fight sequences in The Old Republic Online really needs to be put in charge of ALL ligthsaber fights. They felt literally flawless. Some of the best saber fights in the franchise, bar none.
@@housetraitor4806 yeah, and they were still enhanced with CGI. Have you seen the remake of the duel in A New hope? That's 90% CGI and look at how better it looks.
@@Jackp499 melee weapon, lightsaber, dude that’s a wide difference. She was good with a metal object, rather than a lightsaber. A lightsaber takes training and effort to master in the movies. You can’t just pick it up and automatically know how to use it because you used a damn metal pipe. Like tf
I've always liked the technical fact that as we go farther back, the Jedi and Sith fighting is better and better. There was more of each, and training information was more readily available.
This is the way I always saw it. Despite the order in which the movies were released, you have to see it as a timeline. Lucas even described it this way as in the prequels, the Jedi were in their prime. By the time the original trilogy comes around, Obi-Wan is an old man (and has neglected his training as now seen in the Obi-Wan series), Vader is mostly machine and wouldn't have the movement he used to, and Luke is training without the facilities the Jedi used to have access to, so his form wouldn't be as refined. My only beef is with the new trilogy. Rey basically learns way too much by herself, although I knew from the Force Awakens that she would be related to Palpatine. Watch her fight with Kylo Ren in relation to Palpatines fight with Windu. She uses the same lunge multiple times. Their styles are very similar.
@@ericolsen5592 Exactly. While information IS on the decline in the Star Wars universe, this is just the typical case of Disney not trying hard enough to make good product. Skilled or not, the recent fights were boring.
So I have a theory that revolves around this. In the prequels (and all predating SW stories), the Jedi/Sith were trained in many different styles of lightsaber combat (Makashi, Soresu, etc.). After order 66, the few surviving Jedi, went into hiding, and stayed hidden. Anakin, now Darth Vader, was limited to his Form V (Djem So) and couldn’t do what he used to do as Anakin because of his injuries & his suit limited his movement. Obi Wan and Yoda aged and weren’t able to keep up with it. So during the originals era, Luke had no true teacher of lightsaber training (Obi Wan died shortly after meeting Luke, and Yoda never trained him, so far as we know, in lightsabers. Only the Force) or the forms of combat, thus he basically taught himself, and then taught Kylo & Rey. They fight the way they do because they don’t know any different. Hence why the acrobatic, amazing lightsaber battles died off. There was no knowledge of the forms to be passed down.
@@NTTofMistery ummm how bout the fact that Ahsoka was actually in the Jedi Order? She trained in the temple, was Anakins apprentice, fought with Obi Wan, and countless other Jedi. She’s nowhere close to being in the same boat as Kylo or Rey. Honest question: did you see the Clone Wars series?
yeah dude is a legend and it's really cool when even the great Christopher Lee is learning from the best and gaining a skillset like that from a scifi movie.@@mr.voidout4739
@@MisterSchitt lol it’s so much of a downgrade I just hope they make a newer version of if with better models and combat and explore more legends since that’s what it is now 😒
What makes the sequel trilogy worse is that the cinematics in swotor, at least in this scene, aren't even outside the realm of possibility. Actors in the movies are completely capable of fighting like this and yet whoever is doing the choreography is giving us children swinging a stick
@@xTHExLONExWOLFx oh and what I liked about swotor is that they have a very iconic character voice actor Marcuas from gears of wars the cowboy looking guy they had captured man I’m a huge gears of war fan but when I heard the mc of gears in a Star Wars swotor cinematic film I was deff hype ass soon as he said get to the choppers know Omg Im sounding like a whole fan boy cause it fits his characters voice always fighting against the Lucuts(in war)went of topic their
I honestly think it woulda been better if Rey was the dark sider & Kylo the Jedi. Cuz that double bladed red saber that flipped open was dope asf, huge missed opportunity.
The fight scenes were like medieval claymore fights. I imagine lightsaber power comes from the wrists, forearms and legs but theyre swinging w their shoulders and it looks awful. Choreography sucks in the new trilogy
@@dylanbright6184 a lightsaber's power comes from the fact its 90000 degrees. All of these wild flashy swings are just silly. Watch the corridor digital short. Imo episode 4 has the most logical lightsaber fights, not the most exciting to watch, but the most realistic.
No different than when they do some unnecessary dumbass spin that would realistically get them stabbed or sliced from behind but doesn't because plot armor in the prequels lmao
Or in this exact scene they chose to use where they didn't stab Palpatine when they had the chance. If we're gonna bitch about Star Wars let's not cherry pick
Star Wars lightsaber fights: Star Wars: slow and daft Empire Strikes Back: slow but good storytelling Return of the Jedi: better and advances the story Prequel Trilogy: ridiculous, superficial fancy sword-dancing rather than fighting and Lucas forgot how lightsabers work, thus making the original trilogy look stupid Sequel Trilogy: ridiculous and superficial that made no sense in terms of story The amount of knickertwisting to make sense of the inconsistency is remarkable. Lucas explained the cumbersome New Hope duel as being between a man who was too much of a machine and a man who was too old, only for Rogue One to contradict that. Apparently, books or comics claim that the Prequel Trilogy fights involved a lot of waving around in the air because these were Jedi at their peak and they were using the force or something to predict each others move - or something like that - which is more ridiculous than the fights themselves. Sequel trilogy fights were out-of-context that didn't fit into the plot, which is quite an achievement considering the lack of plot.
I don’t get all the hate for Rey to begin with. She was unnecessary sure, but she isn’t really a bad character, just not the one anyone wanted. Kylo is the worst character in all of Star Wars. His emo conniption fits, his worship of his redeemed grandfather’s genocidal warlord period, his retarded saber crossguard that wouldn’t work as a crossguard cause it would just cut the damn emitters off. His entire story is just stupid from start to finish. I also bet anything if they had chosen to make Rey Obi’s kid (one of the original contenders since they didn’t decide until the last movie) instead no one would have cared.
@@trnovsky33 you mean just like how Anakin shouldn't have been able to pilot a fighter plane in The phantom menace? Or how Anakin was able to take on Dooku- The Guy who trained Qui Gon who trained Obi Wan who Trained Anakin? That's at least 2 layers of Imperfect training and Anakin was still able to hold his own against him when he realistically shouldn't have even lasted 10 seconds 🤦♂️
@@ImPyroChad or Luke went from dude getting his hand cut off to slaughtering Jaba’s crew like ants with seemingly no training resources at all. Or did Obi-Wan leave 12 training holograms for Luke like anakin did for Ahsoka and it’s just never been shown? Yeah, he trained with Yoda to learn basic force application, but I don’t recall any lightsaber training at all. Or really anything other than jumping and lifting stuff. But yes anakin was the best example. Somehow an uneducated slave learned enough electrical and mechanical engineering to build a functional c3-po, his own custom pod racer which he somehow built to race standards in a junkyard and could magically pilot better than the pros from the very first time he started the engine. It was like some 8 year old building his own F1 call and then first time driving and he’s lapping Lewis Hamilton. At least with the fighter he had r2-d2 with him who probably could do a good bit of helping. Then Obi-Wan somehow solo kills the dude who out-dueled his master in a seemingly fair 1:1 fight cause he got angry. Or how somehow the Jedi can sense force aware children with weak power to raise as padawan, but they can be around their favorite senator for decades and never once sense a thing. Heck, they couldn’t even sense dooku turned. Meanwhile Obi-wan and Vader could sense each other by simply stepping on the same planet (Death Star). Star Wars has ALWAYS leaned Fantasy Sci-Fi. Not to mention Kylo shouldn’t have had anyone to practice lightsaber dueling with for like a decade. Star Wars training has never made sense and generally all the characters just get better at everything they try/wanna do over time. People need to deal with it. I was also not talking about either of their fighting skills but their characters. Their motivation, their thinking, their goals, etc. With Vader who committed all sorts of mass genocide and other atrocities for decades, and Luke is like “I can feel the good in you, let go of your hate” meanwhile Kylo who seemingly grew up in a peaceful life with loving parents (compared to anakin a slave who’s mom was murdered by tusken raiders because he didn’t go pick her up a few years sooner, lost his wife, was told to betray the one guy he kinda trusted by the people who preach honesty and made him a child soldier… at least he had some reason) but he apparently already was leaning to the dark side just the same to the point Luke feared it and somehow Luke is now like “I can feel the anger in you… die”. And suddenly Kylo slaughters everyone, runs, tracks down some random new Sith master seemingly out of no where, all because his uncle was scared of him. He worshipped his grandpa but seems to have totally missed the whole reason anakin turned to palpatine was for the power to save his loved ones, meanwhile Kylo killed his dad in cold blood. Then betrayed his Sith master to take his spot. Then suddenly “oh I’m good again”. I totally get people thinking Kylo is cool with the helmet and neat sounding saber with the stupid cross guard, but well written he is not. And it’s much much worse than Rey. At least Rey had already been rocking a quarter staff and fending for herself for her whole life. You act like she would have never experienced a fight in her life before. Thus, Kylo Ren is a crappy character, Rey is just not a character anyone wanted. After the TFA there was lots of excitement and debate on who she was and if she was like another force baby like anakin or Obi-Wan or Qui-Gons family cause of the accent or secretly Luke’s kid, and they were excited to find out, it wasn’t until TLJ when Rian came and just started character assassinations where the hate really started. People got mad about what they did to Luke and blamed it on Rey for seemingly no reason at all other than them sharing the screen and him dying to help her (conveniently forgetting he WAS trying to help Kylo and Leia too). The difference is huge.
Sequels to me are a what if situation. Like what if Luke just said fuck the galaxy ima stay on an island after trying to kill my sister’s son. Thanks Disney 👍 to me the Star Wars legends books are the true sequels.
The OT was limited by the props strength and cgi capabilities. They literally couldn’t do much more than that which is why Lucas made the fights more energetic in the prequels cause that’s what he really wanted
@ispilloil he's Darth Vader. Darth is monotone and a dry vocal sound. That's the point. He became like a wooden soldier over time scorned by the life he loved.
Apparently Sidious’ actor, Ian McDiarmid, got no prep time, and unfortunately it shows. I’m guessing Windu brought the best duelists he could find at short notice to back him up, but instead they went down with almost no resistance. I think only one of then, besides Windu, did more than parry Sidious’ attack for like a second.
The original plan was to have a much longer fight between Sidious and the Jedi, you can find videos of the stunt actors practicing it. The Jedi put up a lot more of a fight, but go down one after the other. However, the film was already rather long and included a bunch of fights (Dooku, Grievous, Sidious twice, and of course Anakin vs Obi-Wan), so they decided to cut it.
I'm pretty sure in cannon that was supposed to happen really fast, as in they could only really see his saber, but I don't think the actor was up for it (along with the run time issues)
Yeah, in my head I'll try to pretend that Sidous was exerting his force powers or something on the other Jedi, but it doesn't translate well onscreen in my opinion. @@doortofreedom5832
@@ItsFuseFX no Disney hasn’t hired nick back since he did the prequels with Lucas, which is why channels like Star Wars theory are trying to start a petition, (with gillards permission) to bring him back to the shows and movies. Tho Hayden was using some techniques in that fight he learned from nick
I hate it too but you have to realize this… in their era, lightsaber fights are extremely rare, all the forms they can practice are pretty much gone because palpatine wiped out all knowledge on the arts and practices of anything having to do with the Jedi and old sith. So the reason they fight like kids in a backyard is because they are just acting on instinct rather than actual skill.
@@Phillisophical what does Disney not having the license in the '70s and '80s have to do with their horrible lore that they've concocted now that they've taken over the franchise?
Luke had 30 years to train in between the OT and ST. Not to mention there were at least a handful of Jedis who survived the Empire's reign, Jedis like Ahsoka. You'd think they would have reached out to him after he started rebuilding the Order and teach him everything they know including how lightsabers are traditonally weilded.
@@da-vidcargill4975 That's all fine and dandy, but at least make it look good. No amount of canonical reasoning is gonna make the fights good. Kylo Ren was trained by Snoke, who somehow just happened to be controlled by sidious. So, if sidious controlled Snoke, and Snoke trained Kylo, then wouldn't it make sense for Snoke to teach Kylo how to traditionally wield a lightsaber?
@@TheOneWhoSouls1405 Exactly, Sidious was a master of all seven forms and was a match for both Windu and Yoda. Anyone trained by him should likewise be extremely skilled in lightsaber combat. Good thing I don't consider the sequels canon.
Yes because his fights were over choreographed. The fight in the Phantom Menace wasn't bad but after that it they all went horribly down hill. Sequels weren't that good either but at least didn't look like a dance routine. Empire and Return were by far the best.
It went from something deadly and elegant to “let’s swing these big glowy sticks around”. Seriously even Din has a better grasp of saber combat then Ray and Kylo and he’s likely to burn patches of skin off on accident
@@hibarikyoya854 your not wrong but if anything that actually pisses me off more. The original trilogy was the blueprint and was basic for a reason and the prequels and games stepped up with said blueprint to the combat we know now. The new trilogy on the other hand feels like it actively took a step back so while its better then the original trilogy combat wise it just feels like a downgrade in quality
Personally as I got older, the more I like the original trilogy fights, especially the RoTJ one, where you can clearly feel the emotion of the fight. Also feels like if they did a wrong move, someone would get cut in half.
it also doesn't help that the bit he chose from attack of the clones was the only good choreography in that entire scene, and that one of his other examples had two guys standing completely still waiting as they got stabbed
I actually really love the first ever lightsaber fight of the franchise, Vader vs Ben. I know they had to be careful because of the carbon fiber props they used, but it really feels like they're both trying to size up the other and are staying on their toes. Like, fucking DARTH VADER of all people was being cautious fighting old ass Ben... that's pretty badass on Ben's part
Ewan McGregor, and Hayden Christiansen truly devoted themselves to their training. Their fight in Episode 3 was so fast, and well choreographed the duel didn't have to be sped up in post production. Edit: had to correct statement that it wasn't slowed down, but rather they didn't have to speed the fight up.
@@Eddie616 you're right. I didn't remember it correctly. What actually happened was their fight was shown non-altered. They were so fast, that they didn't have to. I suppose some fights were digitally sped up, but their fight wasn't. I was partially correct in the sense that they trained so hard, that their fight was superb.
Ive recently found an explanation to this in one of George Lucas old interviews from before the sequels. He stated that in episode 4 the saber fighting looks the way it does cuz he was inspired by samurai movies and he believed the saber energy was so heavy to control it required 2 hands. Later in 5 and 6 it incorporated some single hand techniques as the assumption was Luke had improved as a duelist. By the time filming for 1,2&3 began he wanted something different as this would be at the HEIGHT OF THE JEDI ORDER. These were Jedi traditionally trained in the Jedi ways at the temple where they wouldve had multiple masters and lessons a day. Yoda trained Luke in a swamp. Ntm after order 66 many of the lightsaber forms died with many of those Jedi (Lucas didnt say this part this is my take) so all the peak Duelists and their techniques were gone, essentially eventually leaving behind the likes of Rey and Kylo, the latter having never completed his Jedi training as he never achieved the rank of Master. This makes a world of sense to me thou i still prefer the fast paced saber fights
Not to mention Yoda had much more important things to impart to Luke than lightsaber combat. Given he wanted to set Luke onto a path more akin to the Jedi of old it would actually make sense if he never taught Luke any saber combat. Therefore any saber combat skills Jedi Luke trained would of been instructed in would of merely been what he himself learned through winging it. Nevermind with saber wielders becoming a rarity it wouldn't surprise me if a lot of combat techniques for countering lightsaber users, which would of necessitated higher saber fighting skills, also died with the majority of the knowledge of the seven forms.
@@Cursed110011 Correct. People are acting like Kylo's saber skills would be all that great to begin with. The Prequels are Force Users who have been training for decades with techniques that were refined over millennia. The Sequel Trilogy was a bunch of novices who's training barely was better than "here, take this incredibly dangerous laser sword and try not to cut off your own arms with it. Now... fight!"
Lucas literally made crap up on the fly all the time and had nothing planned. That's why Luke makes out with his sister in episode 5 and then finds out in 6. Lucas didn't know he was making Leia Luke's sister when he wrote 5. He was just making a yarn up to make it look like he's some grand genius who had everything planned from day 1.
@@ninja3687 Plus it's not Lucas who came up with most of the crap in the OT in the first place. Most of what Lucas did try to put it was thrown out and replaced by much more competent people. George Lucas is nothing more than a credit stealing hack who barely actually had anything to do with actually creating Star Wars.
I blame the fans for the awful fights in the sequels. Why? Because for years they shit on the wonderful spectacle that was the choreography of the prequels because, "It's not how real sword fights should look!" You Star Wars nerds brought this abomination upon us. Now lay in the bed YOU made!!!! Disney actually thought they were giving you what you wanted because that is exactly what y'all asked for. 🤦🏽♂️🤦🏽♂️
@@SSJ2Phenom lightsaber fights shouldn't look like real sword fight in the first place. It's a blade of plasma that weighs basically nothing so it's gonna be super easy to swing around
@@biggus_dickkus Hey, I agree. I'm simply pointing out an example of the fans of the original trilogy griping and complaining about something from the prequels and when they got what they said they wanted from the prequals in the sequels; surprise surprise, now they're griping about what they claimed to have wanted. Basically I'm saying that they're hypocrites and it wouldn't matter if a SW film or show was the absolute best thing going. They'd still bitch.
like i said earleir..sidious was much more powerfull in both skill and force than those jedi..watch some lore on lightsaber fighting, its really insane how powerfull some sith were
They had much more complex choreography for Sidius killing the Jedi, but then at the last minute George decided that he wanted Ian to actually do the moves himself instead of using a stunt double. Yet he still threw in a couple of CGI Sidius flips and jumps when he was fighting Mace Windu, so I really wish he had used the stunt double for at least a few shots of him killing the first few Jedi.
The jedi swinging lightsabers like jim and tommy with them brooms and dustpans (not the other way around). If I were a Jedi I’d probably knock out big Palpy or Yoda in seconds in a duel because they can’t defend themselves from punches or kicks with the weird lightsaber combat methods, only dodge them. A well place hook kick during one of those periods of the blades clashing is probably going to make a big difference. Besides a lightsaber is ineffective against a good’ol ‘35 slug. They should have made it more realistic and similar to real life fencing (like in the OT), or made it more than fencing by combining it with martial arts rather than just full on anime style. But choreography in Kylo vs Rey and other duels in ST is bad too so I’m not defending it.
Golf commentators when they see Rey swing her lightsaber: “Wow, a beautiful swing. It seems she will be on the green and set up for a potential birdy.”
I need to be reborn in these games an unbeatable virus that wins every duel by waving the Sabre around like one of those laser pointers you distract a cat with.
@@tassadar9623 he is you can't deny it just because you don't like the sequels he was fairly young when he defeated the leader of the knights of ren one of the most powerful sith of all time
@@Skibidiohiorizzsigma the leader of the Knights Ren isn't a sith, just a dark side warriors. Luke even called them out using the dark side like a hammer because they are clumsy and untrained.
She’s says it to signify her relationship with Ben, like they’re married. She didn’t mean Skywalker by blood or talent. That’s what I tell myself so I can sleep at night 😞
More effort went into making sure the new trilogy was woke, pc, and inclusive rather than having a decent story, decent cinematography, or decent anything. Its straight up a "We are woke" monument with a starwars hat.
To be fair, Dooku had his lightsaber style based on the actual sabre style of fencing that Christopher Lee was familiar with. He asked for his lightsaber hilt to be shaped the way it is to better reflect that.
Luke got his hand chopped off Meanwhile Vader and Maul had so much hate and anger that the Dark side of the force helped keeping them alive just so that they can get their revenge and surprisingly they hate the same guy 🤣. Either you die a hero or live long enough to become a villain
If you are on the level of a sith lord anything is possible. Or jedi that can beat sith lords. But ordinary force users, one stab and you are done like dinner. At least by original star wars logic. Although, even Revan needed a suit for space walk, so i guess even the best had to follow some rules then.
@@darththor3982only the dark side can allow you to survive through sheer hate alone the light side can't help you getting a lightsaber to the gut or decapitation
In technical terms, the duel in RotJ is better and the most realistic in the entire series. Deep stances and you can tell each swing is an attempt to break the others guard. Vader is also taking the fight seriously. Empire it’s clear that Vader is toying with a novice the whole time, and he ends it within seconds of Luke getting a lucky hit in. The prequels have too much flair/unecessary movement and you can tell they’re aiming at each other’s sabers instead of the person, so they come off as a choreographed dance target than a fight.
" if you were to face an ancient sith lord in combat you would learn that we are as children playing with toys compared to the prowess of the old masters..." Kreia/Darth Traya
@@wolfgod6443 Correction, she hates the force because it meddles with people's will and destroys the concept of agency. She believes people need to grow strong on their own without crutches or they'll be destroyed. Almost a darwinian approach to situations.
@@michaelterry6576 Yeah but the Force is in all things. I don't think she believes in a way out. She did, upon discovering the wounds in the Force, but she was wrong about them.
yeah i have no idea what these goerge lucas meat riders are talking about, that is one of the most ass scenes in all of star wars, almost every fight scene in the latest trilogy is better
In the actual novelization, Palpatine is described as moving so fast that only Windu could track his movements. The other two that died were killed because they lacked the same quality. It was hard to depict Force Speed in movies back then.
I know it's not depicted in the movie to well, but the novelization explains it. His scream in the scene was a force ability that paralyzed the jedi for a little bit, giving him enough time to strike. Now I do agree the depiction could have been better.
Big P killing three jedi in the space of a few seconds after which WIndu manages to initially defeat him. The use of the force was not visualized very well, in fact very badly.
Maybe its a bias cause i used to own an Ultrasabers Renegade LE Saber, but i think people under sell the fighting. The Kyber Crystal in Ren's saber is not only a failed bleed, but its also cracked. Even with the vents it does something other sabers don't, due to raw power output the blade itself pulls almost as if it carries weight. It forces Ren to throw his whole body into almost as if it were a Light Club from the old game where you play Kyle Katarn (Dark Forces 2 i think?) Cool side note the Renegade with heavy grade blades is HEAVY. You very much have to brute force wield it. Its neat. We also get some honestly cool shots in the Opening of Rise. Dude is using the guards to impale his enemies. Plus, although Ren had trained a bit under Luke, he is still young and inexperienced in Saber to Saber combat. Sure, if you put his fighting on a comparison level of other Proper Sith he is reckless and slippy, because his training has been different. You can run all the drills and form study that ypur heart desires, but none of it will help you if you've not had experience fighting other Lightsabers. Edit. Typo
People don’t understand why the fights are “over choreographed” they fail to understand how the force works and how force users are essentially seeing the future and are seeing each others next 30 moves and countering appropriately.
Not even just that on Mustafar Anakin and Obi-Wan ahve speent years sparring notice how the only time anyone gets the upperhand in that duel it's Vader and that when he fights more like Vader and less like Anakin.
@@erikvazquez6393 random shit…… force users being able to essentially see the future in battle is heavily ingrained in the films. Wtf are you talking about. It’s literally one of the main reasons the force is so powerful
Literally not how that works sure they sense what they are going to do but it's not always accurate it's basically like sword fighting irl you gotta predict what your enemy will do and counter and find the right moment to strike
@@jackmills4495 No I'm not even talking about practicality lmao 😂 I'm just saying that seeing reverse grip in animation and specifically live action, is just ugly. The fights don't look good when it's in reverse grip, that's why I never liked Ahsoka or starkiller's fights, and I always loved the normal grip fights in star wars.
@@MattEldridgeFilm Not really in my opinion. The Praetorian guards were pretty cool, but that is about it. The choreography was horrendous. When it was being filmed, Rian Johnson shot it once and went with it and attempted to choreograph it himself when each and every Praetorian guard was played by an experienced stunt man. Rian is definitely not a martial artist. I can tell by watching as a martial artist myself. Multiple times the heroes could have easily died. The guards seem to be flailing about randomly to make it seem as if they are doing something other than waiting for Rey or Kylo to finish the guys in front. (This happens a lot in many fight scenes even good ones, but it shouldn't be obvious) I'll give it this: It is the best Sequel fight, but I wouldn't say it is incredible. When I think incredible, I think Darth Maul vs Obi Wan, Anakin vs Obi Wan, Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon, etc.
I think she was having trouble holding his swing with the force and as soon s she let go she would need to deflect his swing with the saber. Would be my thought if I was in her place 🤷🏻♂️
The sith and jedi of old was on their peak of power. I mean jedi and sith had an Orthodox force ability that the new republic jedi and sith lack. Some sith and jedi back then can achieve godlike feats like what darth nihilius did to a populated planet.
@@PirateOfGermany and who the hell are knights of ren?! We only see them standing in some place for no reason and then we see them geting killed by kylo - the weakest villain in this universe lel
@@sketchstevens5859 I agree, maul should have just stop showing up in Star Wars media for a while after his death in rebels. The cameo he made in Solo was kinda disrespectful to his character.
I mean, canonically, all the practitioners of the 7 lightsaber forms were dead. There was no way for Rey or Ben to truly study and train in the saber art forms.
Luke had an archive of jedi knowledge. And had been trained by 2 of the greatest practitioners of lightsaber combat among the jedi. There were very few jedi better than yoda at dueling I believe Windu was a better duelist in the canon. Either way kylo had definitely recieved some lightsaber training from luke as padawans start training at a young age.
These people will do anything to hate. Dooku was a master duelist, Anakin the chosen one, Sideous and 4 Jedi grand masters (who’s fight was horribly choreographed), and an animation of the Jedi battlemaster who’s literally the best saber user in the Jedi order at that time. These people are so stupid they can’t see that kylo and Rey shouldn’t be as good as any of these other people, and if they were they would just cry the same shit they already did about Rey learning things for no reason, when Luke did the same shit in episode 4. They’re all just idiots.
@@renren225 this is true. however, the only lightsaber training obi-wan gives him is the little bit we see with the remote on the falcon. And considering that Yoda tells him that weapons aren't that important, I doubt he taught him anything
For all the people who don’t understand why he put the fights he did, He did it on purpose to show that literally any fight (not the original trilogy) can and is better than the fights in the sequels.
The sequel trilogy fights fit perfectly in unison with the prequel fights. Director wanted the fight to be more realistic as real sword fights don't last as long as ep. III was.
Also Rey wasn't a dueling God like obi-wan or ani who spent their entire lives training instead of Reys short training Montage.
Just wouldn't make any sense for Rey to be a better fighter untrained than any of the prequel jedi
@@jamesfaust7434 no one’s saying she should’ve been better but the duels were terrible kylo ren was trained in duelling and he was just as bad
@@almightykingpin6322 that's what I'm saying. The fights were made intentionally "worse" because of above stated reasons. You'll also note that kylo was an awesome fighter against the red guard as well as the knights of Ren.
They couldn't showcase that level of ability against Rey or she woulda lost immediately and that would be movie over.
Have you seen Luke vs vader in Ep5?
It isn't meant to be a fair fight.
It is one man toying with the other.
@@jamesfaust7434 I can totally agree with what ur saying but I just think if they woulda introduced rey in the first movie of hers as a girl who had it hard in life and carried like a bat or baton or something that can resemble a lightsaber she could have shown more instinctive fight moves against kylo and the overall fight scenes coulda more aligned with Kylo being trained and being better but Rey holding her own as fighting for the entirety of the rebellion. Not disagreeing with u just kinda not too impressed with the directors ability to expand the box in which they thought from, hv a good one
It’s awesome how Kylo Ren, who has been training since he was a teenager, is at the same skill level as a girl who picked a lightsaber two weeks ago and her only form is Baseball Bat form.
Didn’t kylo ren train since he was a small child?
@@theexplodingDarkrai his Jedi training maybe but his Sith training only started after he left Luke’s Jedi order
@@rishimallepally4971 ye, that’s what I meant lol
@@theexplodingDarkrai I think he was a little older when he turned but I could be wrong. Still he’s been training for years and Rey hadn’t even heard of a lightsaber like a month ago.
@@rishimallepally4971 exactly
"Compared to the Sith and Jedi of old, we are but children playing with Lightsabers" - Kreia
She said this in front of the tomb of Tulak Hord, the lord of hate, the greatest sith of all time
So true
@@abyssano78 We can't really confirm that. He kinda just has hearsay and rumors for his power and might. He could have been only Darth Maul level for all we know. And we never will because Legends is dead as a doornail unfortunately.
@@austinkersey2445 personnaly i think that a guy that's called the lord of hate and put an enormous monster guy in stasis is pretty powerful, plus, he is class, and have an armor, so he is obviously powerful
Meh, Vitiate and Revan are objectively stronger Sith.
Back in my day, when you were stabbed by a lightsaber, it meant you were dead.
True but it actually had to hit you in a vital area, not just cut
Stabbed to death by a lightsaber?
That can only happen if you are male! ;-)
Stabbed to death by a lightsaber?
That can only happen if you are male! ;-)
the only person who actually dies from a lightsaber is qui gon literally every other force user stabbed by a saber survives 💀
@@gbear0385uhhmmm wtf happened to two of the master's along windu when they tried to capture the chancellor????
“I’m all the Jedi.”
You wield the youngling slayer 9000 yet you fight like a youngling.
Hold on how the hell does this not have more traction
Exactly. "This dagger has done some terrible things." Yeah just like the saber you wield.
Well, the youngling fighting a bunch of clones was clearly better than rey.
Youngling slayer 9000! 😆
Bro, stop the insulting. This is undeserved. The younglings did nothing wrong to be compared to this bitch
Let's remember that Christopher Lee was a masterful swordsman both on and off screen. He still holds the record for most number of swordfights in film and personally designed the curved lightsaber hilt. If anything, he was woefully underutilized.
He was legendary. May he Rest In Peace.
Sorry to burst your bubble but Christopher Lee was replaced with a double for all his lightsaber duels with an early deep fake face replacement check thd bonus features if you don't beleave me
Sure, you can’t even spell “believe” correctly. And where is the source for your statement?
@@Ep4368 ohh a spelling mistake don't piss your pants! And I told you my source the dvd blu ray extras. Lol you pick up on a tiny spelling mistake but miss the answer to your question. There's no disputing his sword fighting prowess but by the time atoc came along age had the better of him. He did close ups but the more intricate moves was a double. This isn't new information most star wars fans know this.
@@Ep4368 ruclips.net/video/EkMRhRTsVQQ/видео.html your welcome !
Rey: lemme freeze his lightsaber in place, then swing at his frozen lightsaber🤡
That was some shit to think about
She did try to hit him he just blocked it in time
@@tru3_xev154 with what? His other hand?
🤣🤣🤣
You just ensured that i will never watch any of new star wars,as a OG fan i cannot witness such blasphemy
Thank you for adding the story scene from the video game The Old Republic. I've always felt that was the greatest lightsaber battle choreography ever.
Facts 💯
“If you were to face an ancient Sith Lord in combat, you would learn that we are as children playing with toys compared to the prowess of the old masters.” - Traya
If Rey joined Kylo, this is how their awesome training would have gone:
Kylo: ~ throws lightsaber-resistant baseball ~
Rey: swings for home-run.
Kylo: yes, that is the way.
Great character, great game.
This
Who was traya
@@daggercatz7297 she's the character that essentially functions as your character's master at start of Knights of the Old Republic 2, she's called Kreia at the beginning of the game though.
The Old Republic fights are probably the best looking Light Saber fights ever created
Honestly.
100%
also the most misleading game trailers of all time lmfao
They should give the trailer designers a budget for a full movie
Agreed. But you can do so much more with animation and push the boundaries.
Finn wielded the saber better than Rey tbh
Ikr, the form
I'm very disappointed he didn't become a jedi instead of Rey
finn was the only good character in the sequels
change my mind
@@lightsabercollector3096 he was force sensitive but didn't tell anyone
I am literally about to cry 192 likes
@@lightsabercollector3096 poe was great
Prequels had the best fights by a fucking mile
my favourite is Hayden Christensen's duels...He's a natural, and really satisfying to watch.
Agreed
it hits even harder when u get into the actual lore about lightsaber fights, and how strong each character in prequels was..its insane
@Chloe-fy6to oh dude, yes but obi wan vs maul right at the end when his anger starts to take over! *chefs kiss
@@livinginallworldz he’s not a natural, he trained his ass off. He spent countless hours practicing and that is why he is the goat
You didn’t include the Mustafar duel
(Which is in my opinion the best duel of all time)
Edit: dear god 9.4K likes? Thanks guys!
He did it on purpose. He showed that even not the best duel can beat the latest duel
You don't have to say in your opinion when you speak the truth
@@CaptainDeliciousPants47 what
I agree
@@Blrrb he is saying even the average bland fight or better then any newer duel.
Those SWTOR trailers really were some of the best star wars that has ever been released ever. They’re perfect.
Chills every time I watch them
I still go back to them from time to time. Heck. Imagine if they included the saber leap in this clip!
I literally just damn near wrote the same comment. Gives me chills watching it too. Amazing
Bro the way the master Jedi saves her by launching his lightsaber at the sith was crazy fire 🔥
were? shit they're still making them. a new one just came out
Original trilogy: broadsword/samurai style
Prequels: crazy ass kendo
Sequels: drunk homeless man with a machete
You, my good sir, deserve more likes
"crazy ass kendo" i'm weak lol
Nah bro, a drunk homeless guy with a machete has better form than the fights in the sequels
And the shows? Ashoka has dope duels
The original trilogy was more just Vader having his own fighting style and Luke not really having proper form yet even at the final fight but he used the dark side to give himself more strength. The prequels were the most civilized time of lightsaber combat and it makes sense that it’s easy for them to wield it and spin it around. Then the sequels have someone who has barely trained a year who is already more powerful then rotj Luke and she can stand up to the literal grandson of anakin Skywalker who has been trained by snoke and Luke for years.
Bro 💀 darth sidous turned airplane mode on
And the first two Jedi masters were towering people
u actually have no idea how powerfull of a sith he was..it was presented this way simply becouse of his sheer superiority in speed and skill that he owned those 2 jedi...this scene should have been done in slowmo for the jedi tbh...mace windoo could hold against him OLNY becouse of his unique fighting style..i highly recommend goin deeper into lightsaber fighting styles, its insane
TOR's dueling scenes always hit unbelievably different, even the small things like how the guy threw the saber to save his partner, so much technique conveyed in the scenes
That's not KotOR. Thats the Old Republic MMO.
One of my favorite games atm.
@@sparklymop swtor is the game but kotor is the first game of the franchise so some just call any game or books from the old republic after kotor. it is what it is.
@@umbradens6129 I've never played Kotor, tbh. I'm sure I'd like it, just have never gotten around to it.
I've literally never heard anyone call tor "kotor" unless they were tongue in cheek calling it kotor 3, and I've been playing it since the beta...
Oopsies
The old republic fighting was so smooth and sync
Can't wait for the Remake on PS5
@FatalCorleone07 there's gonna be a remake?
@@suicidalbunny1608 yes sir. KOTOR, and remarkably, I think PlayStation is spearheading it. Very, very early stages rn tho
@@FatalCorleone07 wish it was for xbox sense the original was only for xbox so it makes sense but it’s whatever i’ll hopefully have a ps5 by then anyway
@@dorksaber4451 I did find it weird that the franchise switched console brands but hey..even with the Xbox Series X SUPPOSEDLY the most powerful system out, on paper, games still run much better on the PS5, so
"They don't raise Jedi like they used to" the nineth sister
Heh
Thank you for all the likes
Fucked up star wars
I don’t even like the new characters like the inquisitors but damn that quote is right
Old republic era was on a whole other level. Much tougher back then.
There were thousands of sith back then
Imagine if the old movies had the technology of the newest movies it would be crazy
There's a RUclips video where someone edited the Obi wan Vader fight in A New Hope with new fx and it's sick
Here it is ruclips.net/video/to2SMng4u1k/видео.html
No it wouldn't... Lucas already did it and ruined those movies and people crucified him for it.
@@WhyAyala wait fr?
@@spynx3167 send link homie?
@@BackBeater its scene 38 remastered
That spin jump Palpatine does makes me laugh every time its so extra😂
The book says he does some sort of Sith power scream when he does that move. It made the weird-ass twirl he did even funnier since it reminds me of the Power Shriek off of Adventure Time.
@Ahmad Cole he is freakishly scary in the Darth Plagius book. If you haven't read it check it out. I am not into reading Star Wars novels, but that one was entertaining.
Naw it’s the Jedi masters getting killed in second with basic moves 🤦🏾♂️
That man is always extra.
REEEEEEE 😂
Kylo not easily winning be like:
“Years of academy training WASTED.” 🤡
Years of academy training? I don’t think so, he doesn’t even understand basic Shii-Cho let alone any other forms…
Is that a toy story reference?
I AM MRS NEZBIT!
@@sindrimyr2423 I think it’s a toy story reference bud
@@sindrimyr2423 it’s a Toy Story reference you foolish child
Hot damn that throw to deflect Malgus was smooth AF. I miss these cinematics. I wish We could get an animated series in the style of the old republic trailers
Freezes the saber then proceeds to hit the saber even though she had a wide opportunity to strike him down
Edit: Resolved, don't add another argument, chances are its already in here.
Fr tho
@@Crownzz.v.r if the guy who belived palpatine says that we all know rey is stupid af (even if you wouldn't hace said it we all would know it)
You say that like palpatines fight made sense 💀
Strike me down then your training shall be complete
@@baconbandit4694 nothing made sense
The thrown lightsaber save is so damn sick
Kinda cringe to me.
@@cerebrophage7709 what an amazing argument🤡
The Jedi had to not only be focusing on his fight with a Sith Lord and not die but also focused on the fight his apprentice was also involved in. And did so to such a degree that he was able to throw his lightsaber in a split second just before his apprentice could be killed, while not leaving himself compromised and vulnerable to his opponent for too long.
That is insane when you really think about it.
@@jasonalcatraz5817 is it possible to learn this power?
@@hobomike6935 Only through devoted training.
It feels like the latter fight was choreographed for longswords or other heavy weapons, disregarding that lightsabers weigh next to nothing in the Star Wars franchise
You still don't fight like that even with heavy weapons lol
@@brianp6859 Well no, of course not, you only fight like that if you find yourself drunk in the jungle and you're trying to hit a monkey with a large branch
They only weigh next to nothing if you are a force wielder or have a connection to the blade
Their suppose to be light but the hilt has weight.
@@shiloallard186 Absolutely, it's a stout chunk of metal in your hand with barely any leverage, which I feel is consistent with the prequels, especially the duel on Mustafar, where they had a bunch of incredibily quick moves by simply twisting their wrists, whereas actual swings like when Anakin fought Count Dooku were a bit slower. Always keeping in mind, however, that the actors in those scenes actually had physical blade-like protrusions of some sort of polymer from their hilts, while the fully animated fights in the games had "proper" lightsabers with the blade weighing nothing. And despite being a huge fan of Star Wars, the physics nerd in me always thinks of the blade as being made of plasma rather than light, even though you can't "focus" plasma using any crystal, Kyber or otherwise.
It was a more civilized age. Obi-Wan said so himself.
Prequels: "There are 7 unique forms of lightsaber combat."
Sequels: "JuSt HiT iT 'tiLL iT DiEs!"
🤣
Top 5 razones to prove why Kylo hadnt finished his training:
Number1 :
To be fair, it does track with the timeline
By the sequels all Jedi masters were dead aside from Luke Skywalker, who himself was only a master of form 5 and wasn't formally trained in lightsaber combat by another Jedi
So it makes sense that certain proficiency in lightsaber combat and force prowess were lost to time
@@Ebamber3 de esa manera entonces Ben debería de usar la quinta forma de combate o como mucho la séptima al ser un sith, pero Rey... No tiene entrenamiento ni para el Jujo aunque la tía esa sea una Mery Sue :v
That's not a prequel thing, it's a made up thing from comic books after the prequels, Ewan McGregor himself said that the choreography of the fights didn't follow '7 forms' and that it was all just made up, so assigning certain forms to certain characters from the films isn't real
I can’t even really remember why Rey and Kylo were even fighting anymore, that’s how forgettable the plots were.
The first duel was the best. Kylo wanted revenge for the Resistance blowing up Star Killer Base, he absolutely wrecked Finn in like 48 seconds (Would have been faster had he not been hit with that bow caster bolt), and you could tell that he was a better fighter than Rey until she let the Force guide her.
Foreplay for them
Was there a plot in first place?
@@elgusaniiiodeljuego6823 No and that’s exactly what you get when identity politics is prioritized over storytelling.
Reason was she goodue and he baddie
Dooku needs to force ghost his way into the sequels and show these brats how a real duelist wields a lightsaber!
Dooku was a beast always one of my favorite lightsaber duelists
@@SRTyler392 Dooku is so underrated. One of my favorite Sith Lords.
@@jeskerjames3260 He is definitely not underrated, you just don't know how much we all love the Count.
Did you watch obi wan?? Vader would destroy him...oh wait
This just shows that the academy was needed because one master teaching every Force sensitive kid can have a diminishing and limiting effect on their learning. Many masters open the imagination, trains the varied talents, and helps the learners Much More than a single master -- even of Luke Skywalker's stature.
Good thing for The Sequel Force users that none of The OG and Prequel Force wielders were around to show what they would've done to them. haha
I was hoping the "to this" would be two old men slowly clashing lightsabers in the Death Star.
Geriatric Wars ✨ xD
Those old men ... that fight looked tacky, but at least you knew why they were fighting and the result of their fight changed the course of the next two films.
Obi-Wan was the last surviving Jedi we knew about, the last chance for Luke to learn the ways of the force. At the time, it's pretty damn suspenceful storytelling.
Fast forward to the Disney sabers, half the extras are fighting the air, zero training Ray is on par with a trained and experienced combatant.
Old heroes and new villains are killed for no reason, old villains are resurrected for no reason.
Lightsabers are given crossguards for no reason, i mean what the hell.
The old men fighting still worked because it was built up by the story. Would have been cool with more choreography, but I don't think I'm crazy defending it over the sequels ... but that's just me so whatever
@@MinecraftMartin Most importantly, they were dealing with technical limitation at the time. They were pioneering the tech themselves and weren’t able to go full force. You can see how much more intense the fights are in 5 and 6 due to advancements in their saber tech
The only reason you view that fight as "abnormal" in the setting is because *later* installments tried to make Jedi and Sith more bombastic, even ESB and ROTJ, not needing to go to the Prequels to look for an example.
I cannot consider the ANH fight to be flawed simply because it is slower paced than what the franchise *later* became.
As far as objectivity is concerned, there is nothing wrong with the fight in ANH being as slow as it is, and the flaw lies in *subsequent* media for trying to ramp up the action in a setting where the action always already established to have a slower pace.
If writers want the fights to be faster *after* that first fight, then it was on *them* to come up with a consistent lore-friendly, in-universe justification for either why the ANH fight was so slow, or why *every OTHER fight* was *faster.*
Logic will not allow for A New Hope to take the fall for the failures of it's successors.
Whoever choreographed the fight sequences in The Old Republic Online really needs to be put in charge of ALL ligthsaber fights. They felt literally flawless. Some of the best saber fights in the franchise, bar none.
Yes, because they're CGI
@@yasininn76but they were still choreographed
@@housetraitor4806 yeah, and they were still enhanced with CGI. Have you seen the remake of the duel in A New hope? That's 90% CGI and look at how better it looks.
@@yasininn76 Like we didn't see 10 years of marvel CGI making people look super acrobatic, come on bro we both know they can make it work seamlessly
@@yasininn76that's not how cgi works little bro
When you thought arresting the senate would be easy, *_but he does a 920 backflip corkscrew spin from the prone position_*
Then proceeds to merc two powerful Jedi with a Force Scream and a couple swings. Mace must've been at least a little...
Shocked 😏
The second he did the 360 dive is when I knew they we’re screwed
I like how you called him "the senate"
@@tedbed1389well he IS the *senate*
@@tedbed1389wow that joke didn't just register with me until just now 😂
“I have all the Jedi with me”
Yeah all the younglings too 😂
Bruh (´⊙ω⊙`)
Bruh😂💀
Brutal
the damn younglings 😆
I was gonna like this but you're at 666 hahaha
Same can be said for MCU fights they went from being actually serious and tense to slapstick and goofy.
I like how a random girl who had never used a light saber in her life was able to beat someone who had been training sense childhood.
GOOD JOB DISNEY
Bruh Kylo Ren was extremely injured and Rey was shown to be decent with a Mele weapon so it does make sense
@@Jackp499 It doesn’t
@@Jackp499 Yes, but that was in Force Awekeens.
@@Jackp499 melee weapon, lightsaber, dude that’s a wide difference. She was good with a metal object, rather than a lightsaber. A lightsaber takes training and effort to master in the movies. You can’t just pick it up and automatically know how to use it because you used a damn metal pipe. Like tf
@@rylennoah7744 I can see where you come from there but it does give her a bit of training and Kylo is extremely injured during that fight
Still remember that scene of a guard dropping his second weapon he could have killed Rey with during a blade lock for no real reason
Yesss in the throne room fight 😂 oh god I snicker every time I remember that
The Rey side of the Force is a plotway to many abilities most consider to be an asspull.
yea that should def be in here
@@SomeRandomYTer Is it possible to learn this power?
You dont remember shit, u watched a video that pointed it out
I've always liked the technical fact that as we go farther back, the Jedi and Sith fighting is better and better. There was more of each, and training information was more readily available.
Interesting! Never thought of it like this before. Good call.
That's an excellent point. Gives meaning to the relatively tame fighting styles of the later movies.
This is the way I always saw it. Despite the order in which the movies were released, you have to see it as a timeline. Lucas even described it this way as in the prequels, the Jedi were in their prime. By the time the original trilogy comes around, Obi-Wan is an old man (and has neglected his training as now seen in the Obi-Wan series), Vader is mostly machine and wouldn't have the movement he used to, and Luke is training without the facilities the Jedi used to have access to, so his form wouldn't be as refined. My only beef is with the new trilogy. Rey basically learns way too much by herself, although I knew from the Force Awakens that she would be related to Palpatine. Watch her fight with Kylo Ren in relation to Palpatines fight with Windu. She uses the same lunge multiple times. Their styles are very similar.
It's a dying art
@@ericolsen5592 Exactly. While information IS on the decline in the Star Wars universe, this is just the typical case of Disney not trying hard enough to make good product. Skilled or not, the recent fights were boring.
So I have a theory that revolves around this.
In the prequels (and all predating SW stories), the Jedi/Sith were trained in many different styles of lightsaber combat (Makashi, Soresu, etc.). After order 66, the few surviving Jedi, went into hiding, and stayed hidden. Anakin, now Darth Vader, was limited to his Form V (Djem So) and couldn’t do what he used to do as Anakin because of his injuries & his suit limited his movement. Obi Wan and Yoda aged and weren’t able to keep up with it. So during the originals era, Luke had no true teacher of lightsaber training (Obi Wan died shortly after meeting Luke, and Yoda never trained him, so far as we know, in lightsabers. Only the Force) or the forms of combat, thus he basically taught himself, and then taught Kylo & Rey. They fight the way they do because they don’t know any different. Hence why the acrobatic, amazing lightsaber battles died off. There was no knowledge of the forms to be passed down.
Explain ashoka being in the same boat as rey and kylo.
@@NTTofMistery ummm how bout the fact that Ahsoka was actually in the Jedi Order? She trained in the temple, was Anakins apprentice, fought with Obi Wan, and countless other Jedi. She’s nowhere close to being in the same boat as Kylo or Rey.
Honest question: did you see the Clone Wars series?
@@TheBriguy90 I think he means Ashoka show Ashoka
@@TheBriguy90 i meant specifically live action 😅. My bad for not clarifying.
However..... No one taught Rey that a Jedi can do mind control, but did.
Maul fights were the best because the actor was an actual trained swordsman and even had Christopher Lee in awe of his talents.
Yup, Ray Park. Not just a swordsman, a world-class martial-artist that's pretty much an expert in any fist or weapon.
yeah dude is a legend and it's really cool when even the great Christopher Lee is learning from the best and gaining a skillset like that from a scifi movie.@@mr.voidout4739
Christopher Lee was also a trained swordsman
I think Hayden was the most skilled, even then Ray. I would love to see them duel in a movie!!
@@rathenslog8490 The guy who taught Lee said he wasn't very good though.
The swotor cinematics are so damn good it ‘almost’ makes me want to play the game
Then you remember that the combat in the game is NOTHING like the trailers.
I still love the game, though. F2P garbage aside.
@@MisterSchitt lol it’s so much of a downgrade I just hope they make a newer version of if with better models and combat and explore more legends since that’s what it is now 😒
What makes the sequel trilogy worse is that the cinematics in swotor, at least in this scene, aren't even outside the realm of possibility. Actors in the movies are completely capable of fighting like this and yet whoever is doing the choreography is giving us children swinging a stick
If you like story games it's one of the best imo. Top 5 favorite story games ever
@@xTHExLONExWOLFx oh and what I liked about swotor is that they have a very iconic character voice actor Marcuas from gears of wars the cowboy looking guy they had captured man I’m a huge gears of war fan but when I heard the mc of gears in a Star Wars swotor cinematic film I was deff hype ass soon as he said get to the choppers know Omg Im sounding like a whole fan boy cause it fits his characters voice always fighting against the Lucuts(in war)went of topic their
Isn’t it weird how Kylo fights with such grace & composure as a “dark side adept”, while Rey fights veryyyyy aggressively & angry as a “Jedi”
I think it has to do with Rey being a Palpatine defendant and Kylo being a Skywalker
@@cloudthefourth Makes no sense if you remember that Anakin SLAUGHTERED children but you do you
@@DarthSpock9940 plus Anakin is reckless but yeah they do them
I honestly think it woulda been better if Rey was the dark sider & Kylo the Jedi. Cuz that double bladed red saber that flipped open was dope asf, huge missed opportunity.
Count dooku - an surprise to be sure but an welcome one
Even darth Vader who literally could not lift his arms above his head had more technique and style then Kylo and Rey combined
Lightsabers before: lazerblades that can cut through almost everything
Lightsabers now: bat
🦇
Man
Inflatable bat🤡
😭😭😭😭😭
Wiffle bat in the first Force Unleashed.
So I’m not crazy. I keep thinking “this feels so lame” with all the Disney lightsaber content. Just the action in general has been so hollow.
Did you watch obi wan??? Has some amazing scenes
The thing is Kylo's form had lots of potential to be entertaining, it wasn't because he kept getting shafted to make Rey look good.
The fight scenes were like medieval claymore fights. I imagine lightsaber power comes from the wrists, forearms and legs but theyre swinging w their shoulders and it looks awful. Choreography sucks in the new trilogy
@@dylanbright6184 a lightsaber's power comes from the fact its 90000 degrees. All of these wild flashy swings are just silly. Watch the corridor digital short. Imo episode 4 has the most logical lightsaber fights, not the most exciting to watch, but the most realistic.
@@tristendunn1808 agreed Kylo shoulda been the star
Don't you just love how she freezes his arm in place then proceeds to hit his lightsaber rather than hitting him lmao
And yet the Prequels get shit.....fucking hate it here
No different than when they do some unnecessary dumbass spin that would realistically get them stabbed or sliced from behind but doesn't because plot armor in the prequels lmao
Or in this exact scene they chose to use where they didn't stab Palpatine when they had the chance. If we're gonna bitch about Star Wars let's not cherry pick
@@invaderhemp you dont know shit about SW so your opinions means fuck all
@@invaderhemp they were freezed bcs of his force scream 🦧
Star Wars lightsaber fights:
Star Wars: slow and daft
Empire Strikes Back: slow but good storytelling
Return of the Jedi: better and advances the story
Prequel Trilogy: ridiculous, superficial fancy sword-dancing rather than fighting and Lucas forgot how lightsabers work, thus making the original trilogy look stupid
Sequel Trilogy: ridiculous and superficial that made no sense in terms of story
The amount of knickertwisting to make sense of the inconsistency is remarkable. Lucas explained the cumbersome New Hope duel as being between a man who was too much of a machine and a man who was too old, only for Rogue One to contradict that. Apparently, books or comics claim that the Prequel Trilogy fights involved a lot of waving around in the air because these were Jedi at their peak and they were using the force or something to predict each others move - or something like that - which is more ridiculous than the fights themselves. Sequel trilogy fights were out-of-context that didn't fit into the plot, which is quite an achievement considering the lack of plot.
I can see why Rey wouldn't have the same skill set, but Kylo has no excuse.
I don’t get all the hate for Rey to begin with. She was unnecessary sure, but she isn’t really a bad character, just not the one anyone wanted. Kylo is the worst character in all of Star Wars. His emo conniption fits, his worship of his redeemed grandfather’s genocidal warlord period, his retarded saber crossguard that wouldn’t work as a crossguard cause it would just cut the damn emitters off. His entire story is just stupid from start to finish. I also bet anything if they had chosen to make Rey Obi’s kid (one of the original contenders since they didn’t decide until the last movie) instead no one would have cared.
@@amnesia5490 In normalfight she would died by Kylo hand in few moment of fight but they made this BS
@@trnovsky33 you mean just like how Anakin shouldn't have been able to pilot a fighter plane in The phantom menace? Or how Anakin was able to take on Dooku- The Guy who trained Qui Gon who trained Obi Wan who Trained Anakin? That's at least 2 layers of Imperfect training and Anakin was still able to hold his own against him when he realistically shouldn't have even lasted 10 seconds 🤦♂️
@@ImPyroChad with first statement i disegree but with second i agree
@@ImPyroChad or Luke went from dude getting his hand cut off to slaughtering Jaba’s crew like ants with seemingly no training resources at all. Or did Obi-Wan leave 12 training holograms for Luke like anakin did for Ahsoka and it’s just never been shown? Yeah, he trained with Yoda to learn basic force application, but I don’t recall any lightsaber training at all. Or really anything other than jumping and lifting stuff.
But yes anakin was the best example. Somehow an uneducated slave learned enough electrical and mechanical engineering to build a functional c3-po, his own custom pod racer which he somehow built to race standards in a junkyard and could magically pilot better than the pros from the very first time he started the engine. It was like some 8 year old building his own F1 call and then first time driving and he’s lapping Lewis Hamilton. At least with the fighter he had r2-d2 with him who probably could do a good bit of helping.
Then Obi-Wan somehow solo kills the dude who out-dueled his master in a seemingly fair 1:1 fight cause he got angry.
Or how somehow the Jedi can sense force aware children with weak power to raise as padawan, but they can be around their favorite senator for decades and never once sense a thing. Heck, they couldn’t even sense dooku turned. Meanwhile Obi-wan and Vader could sense each other by simply stepping on the same planet (Death Star).
Star Wars has ALWAYS leaned Fantasy Sci-Fi.
Not to mention Kylo shouldn’t have had anyone to practice lightsaber dueling with for like a decade. Star Wars training has never made sense and generally all the characters just get better at everything they try/wanna do over time. People need to deal with it.
I was also not talking about either of their fighting skills but their characters. Their motivation, their thinking, their goals, etc. With Vader who committed all sorts of mass genocide and other atrocities for decades, and Luke is like “I can feel the good in you, let go of your hate” meanwhile Kylo who seemingly grew up in a peaceful life with loving parents (compared to anakin a slave who’s mom was murdered by tusken raiders because he didn’t go pick her up a few years sooner, lost his wife, was told to betray the one guy he kinda trusted by the people who preach honesty and made him a child soldier… at least he had some reason) but he apparently already was leaning to the dark side just the same to the point Luke feared it and somehow Luke is now like “I can feel the anger in you… die”. And suddenly Kylo slaughters everyone, runs, tracks down some random new Sith master seemingly out of no where, all because his uncle was scared of him. He worshipped his grandpa but seems to have totally missed the whole reason anakin turned to palpatine was for the power to save his loved ones, meanwhile Kylo killed his dad in cold blood. Then betrayed his Sith master to take his spot. Then suddenly “oh I’m good again”.
I totally get people thinking Kylo is cool with the helmet and neat sounding saber with the stupid cross guard, but well written he is not. And it’s much much worse than Rey. At least Rey had already been rocking a quarter staff and fending for herself for her whole life. You act like she would have never experienced a fight in her life before.
Thus, Kylo Ren is a crappy character, Rey is just not a character anyone wanted. After the TFA there was lots of excitement and debate on who she was and if she was like another force baby like anakin or Obi-Wan or Qui-Gons family cause of the accent or secretly Luke’s kid, and they were excited to find out, it wasn’t until TLJ when Rian came and just started character assassinations where the hate really started. People got mad about what they did to Luke and blamed it on Rey for seemingly no reason at all other than them sharing the screen and him dying to help her (conveniently forgetting he WAS trying to help Kylo and Leia too).
The difference is huge.
( jedi hand gesture )
" There are no sequels. "
These are not the sequels we are looking for.
:look there over there(points towards Dave foloni(I can't spell his name right no need to tell))
Ok both of these comments are so underrated
What sequels?
Yeah both of these comments are amazing ❤️
Sequels to me are a what if situation. Like what if Luke just said fuck the galaxy ima stay on an island after trying to kill my sister’s son. Thanks Disney 👍 to me the Star Wars legends books are the true sequels.
The saber throw save was hands down one of the coolest moves I've seen in starwars right up there with starkiller bringing down a star destroyer
those swotor vids just hit different they are all fantastic from these first run to the practically short film quality dlc ones
Bringing down the star destroyer is an excellent spectacle to watch, less so to play..
Just imagine Rey going up against an Old Republic Sith.
What show/ movie is that third clip in? Please I need to watch it
@@tylerphillipss6436 it's from one of the cgi cinematics for the mmorpg 'Star Wars: The Old Republic'. You can find all of them on RUclips.
"Evil cannot create anything new, they can only corrupt and ruin what good forces have invented or made.”
J.R.R Tolkein
Prequels: anime like sword fight style
OT: smooth slow fight style like simple real life samurai
Sequels: swing until it hits something alive.
What about game trailers?
@@cckiller0053 prequels Category
Sequels: hit till it dies
@@cckiller0053 the game trailers and animated series like the clone wars had some really good saber fights. They really butchered the sequels
The OT was limited by the props strength and cgi capabilities. They literally couldn’t do much more than that which is why Lucas made the fights more energetic in the prequels cause that’s what he really wanted
Hayden is one of the best to ever use a lightsaber. Could watch him fight all day!
His form is really good. I just wish the acting wasn't so monotone and dull in the prequels
I don’t know I think Ray Park could give him a run for his money
Objectively, Liam Neeson actually was. He had prior training in swordplay and became a legitimate danger to everyone else on set
@ispilloil he's Darth Vader. Darth is monotone and a dry vocal sound. That's the point. He became like a wooden soldier over time scorned by the life he loved.
@@cheesedoodle7ge gas a Fandom because he passed sadly. There's absolutely NOTHING amazing about Baylan.
OK, but let's not pretend the Sidious jumping thing wasn't goofy as fuck.
It's not very different than Yoda doing those goofy hops, while fighting Tyrannus.
Apparently Sidious’ actor, Ian McDiarmid, got no prep time, and unfortunately it shows. I’m guessing Windu brought the best duelists he could find at short notice to back him up, but instead they went down with almost no resistance. I think only one of then, besides Windu, did more than parry Sidious’ attack for like a second.
The original plan was to have a much longer fight between Sidious and the Jedi, you can find videos of the stunt actors practicing it. The Jedi put up a lot more of a fight, but go down one after the other.
However, the film was already rather long and included a bunch of fights (Dooku, Grievous, Sidious twice, and of course Anakin vs Obi-Wan), so they decided to cut it.
I'm pretty sure in cannon that was supposed to happen really fast, as in they could only really see his saber, but I don't think the actor was up for it (along with the run time issues)
Yeah, in my head I'll try to pretend that Sidous was exerting his force powers or something on the other Jedi, but it doesn't translate well onscreen in my opinion. @@doortofreedom5832
The differences between when real Jedi masters and Sith lords fight versus when children swinging sticks fight… Disney ruining everything
Always a pleasure to see palpatine doing a 920
Screw attack!
ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
- Darth Sidious
"I'm all the jedi."
*holding the exact same weapon that was used for terrible things and uses a sword like a bat*
*Terrible. But great.*
@@Tempusverum Terrible but sh!t.
@@srptmal3028 I take it you’re not a fan of killing younglings
You act like as if she was trained properly
A lightsaber isnt a sword
Its more of a bat
The video game cutscenes are literally some of the best Star Wars movies
why not hire the same people that choreograph those amazing scenes 🤦♂️
@@ejandrews3065I wish nick gillard would come back
@@ejandrews3065listen...everyone that ever watched those trailers asks themselves the same question every time they watch them...
@@coleparkinson9904 Nick did the saber fights for Ahsoka Ep 5, hopefully he did the rest of them going forward.
@@ItsFuseFX no Disney hasn’t hired nick back since he did the prequels with Lucas, which is why channels like Star Wars theory are trying to start a petition, (with gillards permission) to bring him back to the shows and movies. Tho Hayden was using some techniques in that fight he learned from nick
I hate it too but you have to realize this… in their era, lightsaber fights are extremely rare, all the forms they can practice are pretty much gone because palpatine wiped out all knowledge on the arts and practices of anything having to do with the Jedi and old sith. So the reason they fight like kids in a backyard is because they are just acting on instinct rather than actual skill.
That's just the built-in excuse created in the Disney fan-fic lore to excuse bad choreography in the films. Sorry, doesn't fly with me.
@@Dagger_323 that’s also true 😂
@@Dagger_323 But think about this, Disney didn’t have the license in the 70s and 80s.
@@Phillisophical what does Disney not having the license in the '70s and '80s have to do with their horrible lore that they've concocted now that they've taken over the franchise?
Nah bruh. Rey's and Kylo's lightsaber fights just straight up suck. Nothing compared to the previous ones.
Nick Gillard was the choreographer for the prequel trilogy. They apparently didn't hire him back for the sequel trilogy. It shows.
it had to make sense, the jedi arts were lost to time and the sequels showed it, luke was not the greatest duelest among the jedi order
Luke had 30 years to train in between the OT and ST. Not to mention there were at least a handful of Jedis who survived the Empire's reign, Jedis like Ahsoka. You'd think they would have reached out to him after he started rebuilding the Order and teach him everything they know including how lightsabers are traditonally weilded.
@@da-vidcargill4975 That's all fine and dandy, but at least make it look good. No amount of canonical reasoning is gonna make the fights good. Kylo Ren was trained by Snoke, who somehow just happened to be controlled by sidious. So, if sidious controlled Snoke, and Snoke trained Kylo, then wouldn't it make sense for Snoke to teach Kylo how to traditionally wield a lightsaber?
@@TheOneWhoSouls1405 Exactly, Sidious was a master of all seven forms and was a match for both Windu and Yoda. Anyone trained by him should likewise be extremely skilled in lightsaber combat. Good thing I don't consider the sequels canon.
Yes because his fights were over choreographed. The fight in the Phantom Menace wasn't bad but after that it they all went horribly down hill. Sequels weren't that good either but at least didn't look like a dance routine. Empire and Return were by far the best.
It went from something deadly and elegant to “let’s swing these big glowy sticks around”. Seriously even Din has a better grasp of saber combat then Ray and Kylo and he’s likely to burn patches of skin off on accident
Yeah plus din has the problem of struggling with the dark saber but still kicks ass
Fr
Have youve seen the originals? And I remember when everyone was clowning on the saber fights in the prequels
@@hibarikyoya854 your not wrong but if anything that actually pisses me off more. The original trilogy was the blueprint and was basic for a reason and the prequels and games stepped up with said blueprint to the combat we know now. The new trilogy on the other hand feels like it actively took a step back so while its better then the original trilogy combat wise it just feels like a downgrade in quality
The original wasn’t every elegant
Personally as I got older, the more I like the original trilogy fights, especially the RoTJ one, where you can clearly feel the emotion of the fight. Also feels like if they did a wrong move, someone would get cut in half.
Yeah they’re the best ones. The prequels and sequels are alright but I prefer the Originals.
Ah fellow people of culture
They feel the closest to actual sword fights
it also doesn't help that the bit he chose from attack of the clones was the only good choreography in that entire scene, and that one of his other examples had two guys standing completely still waiting as they got stabbed
I actually really love the first ever lightsaber fight of the franchise, Vader vs Ben. I know they had to be careful because of the carbon fiber props they used, but it really feels like they're both trying to size up the other and are staying on their toes. Like, fucking DARTH VADER of all people was being cautious fighting old ass Ben... that's pretty badass on Ben's part
Ogs and Prequels:
Actual lightsaber fight with unique techniques.
Disney Sequels:
Freakin shiny sword fights.
@@PixelBlitzBOI nah, cause in the ogs and prequels they use real sword fighting techniques. In the sequels they just swing their lightsabers around
Ewan McGregor, and Hayden Christiansen truly devoted themselves to their training. Their fight in Episode 3 was so fast, and well choreographed the duel didn't have to be sped up in post production.
Edit: had to correct statement that it wasn't slowed down, but rather they didn't have to speed the fight up.
Really?! 😮 They should have kept it!
That’s actually not true lol. Dope ass fight though. 🔥🔥🔥
@@Eddie616 you're right. I didn't remember it correctly. What actually happened was their fight was shown non-altered. They were so fast, that they didn't have to. I suppose some fights were digitally sped up, but their fight wasn't. I was partially correct in the sense that they trained so hard, that their fight was superb.
@@nasis18 oh they trained like crazy to the point where breaking props. They went hard
I mean especially compared to the garbage fights of the new trilogy.
Ive recently found an explanation to this in one of George Lucas old interviews from before the sequels. He stated that in episode 4 the saber fighting looks the way it does cuz he was inspired by samurai movies and he believed the saber energy was so heavy to control it required 2 hands. Later in 5 and 6 it incorporated some single hand techniques as the assumption was Luke had improved as a duelist. By the time filming for 1,2&3 began he wanted something different as this would be at the HEIGHT OF THE JEDI ORDER. These were Jedi traditionally trained in the Jedi ways at the temple where they wouldve had multiple masters and lessons a day. Yoda trained Luke in a swamp. Ntm after order 66 many of the lightsaber forms died with many of those Jedi (Lucas didnt say this part this is my take) so all the peak Duelists and their techniques were gone, essentially eventually leaving behind the likes of Rey and Kylo, the latter having never completed his Jedi training as he never achieved the rank of Master. This makes a world of sense to me thou i still prefer the fast paced saber fights
Also the real-world reason is that for 4, the sabers were so delicate they still broke a ton of them
Not to mention Yoda had much more important things to impart to Luke than lightsaber combat. Given he wanted to set Luke onto a path more akin to the Jedi of old it would actually make sense if he never taught Luke any saber combat. Therefore any saber combat skills Jedi Luke trained would of been instructed in would of merely been what he himself learned through winging it. Nevermind with saber wielders becoming a rarity it wouldn't surprise me if a lot of combat techniques for countering lightsaber users, which would of necessitated higher saber fighting skills, also died with the majority of the knowledge of the seven forms.
@@Cursed110011 Correct. People are acting like Kylo's saber skills would be all that great to begin with. The Prequels are Force Users who have been training for decades with techniques that were refined over millennia. The Sequel Trilogy was a bunch of novices who's training barely was better than "here, take this incredibly dangerous laser sword and try not to cut off your own arms with it. Now... fight!"
Lucas literally made crap up on the fly all the time and had nothing planned. That's why Luke makes out with his sister in episode 5 and then finds out in 6. Lucas didn't know he was making Leia Luke's sister when he wrote 5. He was just making a yarn up to make it look like he's some grand genius who had everything planned from day 1.
@@ninja3687 Plus it's not Lucas who came up with most of the crap in the OT in the first place. Most of what Lucas did try to put it was thrown out and replaced by much more competent people. George Lucas is nothing more than a credit stealing hack who barely actually had anything to do with actually creating Star Wars.
Shouodve shown obiwan vs maul. Choreography and speed on that was amazing in my opinion
I personally would've loved to have seen Palpatine beating the shit out of maul and savage oppress from TCW's
That one was is underrated, the speed was amazing after Maul killed Qui-Gon. And the also the sound of the light saber was pretty bada**
I blame the fans for the awful fights in the sequels. Why? Because for years they shit on the wonderful spectacle that was the choreography of the prequels because, "It's not how real sword fights should look!"
You Star Wars nerds brought this abomination upon us. Now lay in the bed YOU made!!!! Disney actually thought they were giving you what you wanted because that is exactly what y'all asked for. 🤦🏽♂️🤦🏽♂️
@@SSJ2Phenom lightsaber fights shouldn't look like real sword fight in the first place. It's a blade of plasma that weighs basically nothing so it's gonna be super easy to swing around
@@biggus_dickkus Hey, I agree. I'm simply pointing out an example of the fans of the original trilogy griping and complaining about something from the prequels and when they got what they said they wanted from the prequals in the sequels; surprise surprise, now they're griping about what they claimed to have wanted.
Basically I'm saying that they're hypocrites and it wouldn't matter if a SW film or show was the absolute best thing going. They'd still bitch.
Ah yes, the Palpatine vs Jedi fight where the Jedi had multiple kill shots on Palpatine but didn’t take them bc the choreography wasn’t planned well?
And yet it was still a much better fight than Rey's and Kylo's. 😮
they were weakened by palpatine's force scream
like i said earleir..sidious was much more powerfull in both skill and force than those jedi..watch some lore on lightsaber fighting, its really insane how powerfull some sith were
They had much more complex choreography for Sidius killing the Jedi, but then at the last minute George decided that he wanted Ian to actually do the moves himself instead of using a stunt double. Yet he still threw in a couple of CGI Sidius flips and jumps when he was fighting Mace Windu, so I really wish he had used the stunt double for at least a few shots of him killing the first few Jedi.
@@HarmonicWave yeah seriously why not use the stunt double for the crazy moves, ian wasn’t even facing the camera most of the time anyway😂😂
Kylo be swinging that lightsaber like a 9 yr old with a baseball bat 💀
Hey, I actually like Kylo's combat style
The jedi swinging lightsabers like jim and tommy with them brooms and dustpans (not the other way around).
If I were a Jedi I’d probably knock out big Palpy or Yoda in seconds in a duel because they can’t defend themselves from punches or kicks with the weird lightsaber combat methods, only dodge them. A well place hook kick during one of those periods of the blades clashing is probably going to make a big difference. Besides a lightsaber is ineffective against a good’ol ‘35 slug. They should have made it more realistic and similar to real life fencing (like in the OT), or made it more than fencing by combining it with martial arts rather than just full on anime style. But choreography in Kylo vs Rey and other duels in ST is bad too so I’m not defending it.
@@fork9001 dude it... Doesn't work that way. You can't use it without the force
@@xLanzer Yes I know Sabine can’t lift saver without force but why would they ban turning it off to break a lock
Nah, hear me out, Just look at Rey for like 2 seconds
Golf commentators when they see Rey swing her lightsaber: “Wow, a beautiful swing. It seems she will be on the green and set up for a potential birdy.”
Sith when talking about Kylo: "We have purposely trained him wrong, as a joke!"
@@SigFigNewton Darth Vader fights like a medieval crusader wielding a broadsword.
I am bleeding, making me the victor! 😂
Is that from kung pow?
@@SigFigNewton I wasn't dissing crusaders.
@@noeditbookreviews yes 😂
I need to be reborn in these games an unbeatable virus that wins every duel by waving the Sabre around like one of those laser pointers you distract a cat with.
On top of that, Rey without any training manages to keep up with Kylo, who was one of the most powerful Sith.
The power of Mary Sue.
@@tassadar9623 he is you can't deny it just because you don't like the sequels he was fairly young when he defeated the leader of the knights of ren one of the most powerful sith of all time
@@Skibidiohiorizzsigma ok
@@Skibidiohiorizzsigma the leader of the Knights Ren isn't a sith, just a dark side warriors. Luke even called them out using the dark side like a hammer because they are clumsy and untrained.
@@eternal-kun6861 Their leader was still powerful and kylo defeated him while he was unexperienced
@@Skibidiohiorizzsigma and rey still defeated kylo ren unexperienced
When rey said Skywalker I just wanted to die
Yep. Personally I thought "well its nice to see that name doesn't mean anything anymore." 😤
I remember being in the theater saying “don’t say it don’t you dare”
“Skywalker”
“ *throws up hands* jesus of course im so done”
Maybe you should've
No you didn’t, you was hyped like everyone else in the theater and you’re just being a “trendy” hipster by hating on it 🤡🤡🤡
She’s says it to signify her relationship with Ben, like they’re married. She didn’t mean Skywalker by blood or talent.
That’s what I tell myself so I can sleep at night 😞
Disney completely ignored the lightsaber forms and just said to the actors ”just swing and dance”
It’s crazy how little effort the put into the choreography of the new trilogy
Ridley was told she didn't need to train before filming
Us fans would say otherwise
@@crankfastle8138 Meanwhile the actors for the Prequels trained alot.
More effort went into making sure the new trilogy was woke, pc, and inclusive rather than having a decent story, decent cinematography, or decent anything. Its straight up a "We are woke" monument with a starwars hat.
It's pretty wack in kenobi too
Count Dooku would’ve watched this and call it the sloppiest performance RIP
To be fair, Dooku had his lightsaber style based on the actual sabre style of fencing that Christopher Lee was familiar with. He asked for his lightsaber hilt to be shaped the way it is to better reflect that.
@@Deconstruction_Administrator dooku is the most elegant fighter
Disney does not know how lightssabers work. That is why so many people are surviving lightsabers injuries.
do you mean Luke, Vader, and Maul?
Luke got his hand chopped off
Meanwhile Vader and Maul had so much hate and anger that the Dark side of the force helped keeping them alive just so that they can get their revenge and surprisingly they hate the same guy 🤣.
Either you die a hero or live long enough to become a villain
*looks at a list of characters from the Legends era that survived lightsaber wounds* Yes because only Disney can make that mistake
If you are on the level of a sith lord anything is possible. Or jedi that can beat sith lords. But ordinary force users, one stab and you are done like dinner. At least by original star wars logic.
Although, even Revan needed a suit for space walk, so i guess even the best had to follow some rules then.
@@darththor3982only the dark side can allow you to survive through sheer hate alone the light side can't help you getting a lightsaber to the gut or decapitation
There were so many good prequel fights that there wasn't enough room for the battle between Anakin and Obi-Wan 💀
I still feel the first duel between Luke and Vader in Empire is the best. There's so much tension to the fight, and the cinematography is so good.
100%. I love the prequel fights but a lot of it is just for flashiness which is fine. But in the OT it was much more of a true duel
In technical terms, the duel in RotJ is better and the most realistic in the entire series. Deep stances and you can tell each swing is an attempt to break the others guard. Vader is also taking the fight seriously.
Empire it’s clear that Vader is toying with a novice the whole time, and he ends it within seconds of Luke getting a lucky hit in.
The prequels have too much flair/unecessary movement and you can tell they’re aiming at each other’s sabers instead of the person, so they come off as a choreographed dance target than a fight.
100% true
" if you were to face an ancient sith lord in combat you would learn that we are as children playing with toys compared to the prowess of the old masters..."
Kreia/Darth Traya
Tbf Kreia's whole character was about hating Star Wars, so of course she would say anything that is not the current hell she's living in is better.
@@wolfgod6443
Correction, she hates the force because it meddles with people's will and destroys the concept of agency.
She believes people need to grow strong on their own without crutches or they'll be destroyed.
Almost a darwinian approach to situations.
@@michaelterry6576 Yeah but the Force is in all things. I don't think she believes in a way out. She did, upon discovering the wounds in the Force, but she was wrong about them.
@@wolfgod6443
The force isn't required to live, as demonstrated in the EU.
@@wolfgod6443
From her point of view the force could be seen as a symbiotic relationship at best, or a parasitic one at worst.
Palpatine doing a barrel roll and then stabbing 4 guys as they stand still and let it happen is easily the most disappointing fight in the franchise.
yeah i have no idea what these goerge lucas meat riders are talking about, that is one of the most ass scenes in all of star wars, almost every fight scene in the latest trilogy is better
In the actual novelization, Palpatine is described as moving so fast that only Windu could track his movements. The other two that died were killed because they lacked the same quality. It was hard to depict Force Speed in movies back then.
I know it's not depicted in the movie to well, but the novelization explains it. His scream in the scene was a force ability that paralyzed the jedi for a little bit, giving him enough time to strike.
Now I do agree the depiction could have been better.
@@jinta87didnt he also use like force yell that struck true fear into them?
Big P killing three jedi in the space of a few seconds after which WIndu manages to initially defeat him. The use of the force was not visualized very well, in fact very badly.
The dialogue is also child's play "I am ALL the Sith" like kids playing in a sandbox with toy lightsabers or even just sticks
Werene't we complaining about the dialogue in Episode 2?
@@holy8782 I never did. I always loved that film
it’s sad that one of the coolest lightsabers we seen on the big screen was wasted
Yup, Kylo's lightsaber had a CROSSGUARD. But he uses it in a backhand grip... And as a baseball bat.
Kyle should have fought using rhe same technique as arnold in conan the barbarian or Henry Cavil as the witcher.
@@Appalachianasshole41 really anything would have been better the "toddler with a pool noodle" we got.
That hilt was made as to help the Saber as it was a failed bleed of a crystal. kind of interesting to think he kept it.
Maybe its a bias cause i used to own an Ultrasabers Renegade LE Saber, but i think people under sell the fighting.
The Kyber Crystal in Ren's saber is not only a failed bleed, but its also cracked. Even with the vents it does something other sabers don't, due to raw power output the blade itself pulls almost as if it carries weight. It forces Ren to throw his whole body into almost as if it were a Light Club from the old game where you play Kyle Katarn (Dark Forces 2 i think?)
Cool side note the Renegade with heavy grade blades is HEAVY. You very much have to brute force wield it. Its neat.
We also get some honestly cool shots in the Opening of Rise. Dude is using the guards to impale his enemies.
Plus, although Ren had trained a bit under Luke, he is still young and inexperienced in Saber to Saber combat.
Sure, if you put his fighting on a comparison level of other Proper Sith he is reckless and slippy, because his training has been different.
You can run all the drills and form study that ypur heart desires, but none of it will help you if you've not had experience fighting other Lightsabers.
Edit. Typo
People don’t understand why the fights are “over choreographed” they fail to understand how the force works and how force users are essentially seeing the future and are seeing each others next 30 moves and countering appropriately.
Not even just that on Mustafar Anakin and Obi-Wan ahve speent years sparring notice how the only time anyone gets the upperhand in that duel it's Vader and that when he fights more like Vader and less like Anakin.
In other words, “they did random shit and here’s some explanation for it that’s not in the movie”
@@erikvazquez6393 random shit…… force users being able to essentially see the future in battle is heavily ingrained in the films. Wtf are you talking about. It’s literally one of the main reasons the force is so powerful
This is the stupidest thing I’ve ever read
Literally not how that works sure they sense what they are going to do but it's not always accurate it's basically like sword fighting irl you gotta predict what your enemy will do and counter and find the right moment to strike
"...so uncivilized..."
Best. Use. Of . That. Line. ever.
did i just read that in Obi Wan's voice?
I did lol.
Read it in his voice.
Hello there
@@kazakhstanisepic General kenobi hahaha. You are a bold one
I think we should all just agree that nothing Disney Star Wars is canon, and the only canon is the extended universe.
Fights with reverse grip despite having a cross guard
reverse grip is so funny because it just doesn’t work for swords
@@pedrobazan85 I’ll only accept Ahsoka and Starkiller using this grip
@@jackmills4495 I think that's why I never liked Ahsoka or starkiller fights... reverse grip is a very ugly fighting style.
@@MMAisTHEbestSPORT08 and that’s fair. It’s not practical. I know some people that are trained to use swords and they hate seeing the reverse grip
@@jackmills4495 No I'm not even talking about practicality lmao 😂 I'm just saying that seeing reverse grip in animation and specifically live action, is just ugly. The fights don't look good when it's in reverse grip, that's why I never liked Ahsoka or starkiller's fights, and I always loved the normal grip fights in star wars.
And that’s literally the “best” fight in the sequels. That’s sad, who coordinated those fights?
Not Ray Park (Darth Maul) that's for sure
Idk who did but imagine at one point they had Iko Uwais in their cast and didnt even think of asking him to do the choreography
@@user-qv4fp9vm8u what?! They had HIM?! He alone could have turned those fights into great ones...
The Last Jedi one where Snoke dies was pretty incredible
@@MattEldridgeFilm Not really in my opinion.
The Praetorian guards were pretty cool, but that is about it. The choreography was horrendous. When it was being filmed, Rian Johnson shot it once and went with it and attempted to choreograph it himself when each and every Praetorian guard was played by an experienced stunt man.
Rian is definitely not a martial artist. I can tell by watching as a martial artist myself. Multiple times the heroes could have easily died. The guards seem to be flailing about randomly to make it seem as if they are doing something other than waiting for Rey or Kylo to finish the guys in front. (This happens a lot in many fight scenes even good ones, but it shouldn't be obvious)
I'll give it this: It is the best Sequel fight, but I wouldn't say it is incredible. When I think incredible, I think Darth Maul vs Obi Wan, Anakin vs Obi Wan, Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon, etc.
I like how she used the force to hold his lightsaber, then instead of hitting him, just hit his lightsaber cause f it☠️
Her goal wasn't to kill him.
@@narsheguard6417 she coulda disarmed him what's your point lmao
@@narsheguard6417 and then she kills him anyways. and then brings him back.
@@narsheguard6417 really she literally stabs him few minutes later and he wasn't holding his lightsaber.
I think she was having trouble holding his swing with the force and as soon s she let go she would need to deflect his swing with the saber. Would be my thought if I was in her place 🤷🏻♂️
Rey vs Kylo is on the same level as two drunk uncles trying to settle their score using shovels.
Old republic duels are just next LEVEL
You'd be at the edge of your seat when they drew the lightsabers, cause you knew it was gonna be good!
The sith and jedi of old was on their peak of power.
I mean jedi and sith had an Orthodox force ability that the new republic jedi and sith lack.
Some sith and jedi back then can achieve godlike feats like what darth nihilius did to a populated planet.
They really did shame pretty much every live action saber duel put to screen yet
yeah, well thats probably because its animated lol@@razorfett147
I would love to see an old republic styled animated movie set in that timeline
”I have all the sith within me!”
“And I have all the Jedi within me!”
Proceeds to fight like a silverback who found a stick in the jungle.
No, she deflected all of that force lightning back at him so he exploded, killing Rey, if it weren’t for Ben Solo, she would have stayed dead.
"I'm gonna block your lightsaber with mine one time and then we can talk for 5 minutes before we do it again!"
"Let's do it!"
What is the movie right before kilo and rey
The writers were more concerned about DEI than a PROPER lightsaber fight 😂
"Learning choreography and skills? Eh that takes money, besides we usually have cgi for that. It's better if our actors just act"
Neither Rey or Kylo were trained how to fight, it makes sense that they're bad at it.
@@thomasbaker9830 Kylo has been trained since he was a child, it's the whole reason he's a fucking knight of ren
@@thomasbaker9830 lol they don't seem to be trained on how to act either
@@PirateOfGermany and who the hell are knights of ren?! We only see them standing in some place for no reason and then we see them geting killed by kylo - the weakest villain in this universe lel
Remember that fight scene with the praetorian guards? Yeah the choreography for the fights in this trilogy is garbage.
And then you have Ahsoka vs Maul- so they didn't "forget" how to have awesome lightsaber duels- they just didn't do them in the Sequel Trilogy.
I've seen enough of Ashoka and Maul in the clone wars.
Your right they didn't, I mean Maul vs Obi-Wan in Rebels has got to be one of the best fights
@@sketchstevens5859 the point was that her fight was good so Disney knows how to make a good fight, it was never actually about Ashoka.
@@a-10warthog78 And my point still stands. Maul has been exhausted as a character
@@sketchstevens5859 I agree, maul should have just stop showing up in Star Wars media for a while after his death in rebels. The cameo he made in Solo was kinda disrespectful to his character.
I mean, canonically, all the practitioners of the 7 lightsaber forms were dead. There was no way for Rey or Ben to truly study and train in the saber art forms.
Luke had an archive of jedi knowledge. And had been trained by 2 of the greatest practitioners of lightsaber combat among the jedi. There were very few jedi better than yoda at dueling I believe Windu was a better duelist in the canon. Either way kylo had definitely recieved some lightsaber training from luke as padawans start training at a young age.
I know this is legends now but Luke re-learns all old forms of LS styles through old Jedi holocrons & through meditation with the Force itself.
These people will do anything to hate.
Dooku was a master duelist, Anakin the chosen one, Sideous and 4 Jedi grand masters (who’s fight was horribly choreographed), and an animation of the Jedi battlemaster who’s literally the best saber user in the Jedi order at that time.
These people are so stupid they can’t see that kylo and Rey shouldn’t be as good as any of these other people, and if they were they would just cry the same shit they already did about Rey learning things for no reason, when Luke did the same shit in episode 4.
They’re all just idiots.
@@es_three232 yeah but disney had to retcon that annoyingly
@@renren225 this is true. however, the only lightsaber training obi-wan gives him is the little bit we see with the remote on the falcon. And considering that Yoda tells him that weapons aren't that important, I doubt he taught him anything
The lightsaber fighting was legitimately the only good thing about those movies. This is just someone having fun poking those movies.
They’re connection is so strong that even their sabers attract each other.
That was also the case in Phantom Manace