Towing 3500kg with your 4WD ute: Worst idea, ever | Auto Expert John Cadogan
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- Опубликовано: 2 авг 2024
- Ute manufacturers tell you that towing 3500kg is possible - desirable, even. But in reality, towing 3500kg with your ute is a dangerous joke, and many people who attempt this are driving illegally.
It's also fundamentally stupid from a safety perspective - so there's that.
In this report, I lay out the beer garden physics of heavy towing stupidity - in response to a question from you.
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The only way to stop all these dangerous over weight killing convoys is to use the truck weighing stations to weight these gigantic over weights and book em.....there's no excuse any more as there is enough information out there now.
Doesn't Shitsville use the truck weigh stations for caravans and the like? That's strange. We do here in the Southern end of Africa.
Actually, I read in a motoring journal last year that putting caravans and motorhomes over the truck weighbridges in Australia is being planned. The article said that the first year will be an educational operation showing caravanners how to balance their towball loads properly and fines will not be issued. After that if you're overweight you get fined and technically you can't continue without shedding weight. I think Covid has put the whole thing back a year or so.
I use the weigh bridges all the time , takes a couple of minutes .
@@labourlawact7826 We used to but it didn't bring in enough revenue because you can check which day's the weigh bridges are open so they didn't make much money.
You can in theory be directed to a weigh bridge but nowadays (at least in NSW) they usually setup random Roadside Caravan checks with portable scales and on double demerit weekends. Brings in a lot more money that way.
@@louiscypher4186 Yep.. random portable scales definitely the go for enforcement.
“Physics don’t give a shit...” 100% accurate comment. In fact Physics has no emotion what-so-ever. 🤣
"Ye canna change de laws of Physics, Jim!"
Fizix says "fuck your feelings".
Shows what you know: it has a warped sense of humour ask Captain Edward A. Murphy Jnr.
@@markh.6687 Kiwi ;- Ivan Mauger
World Champion: 1968, 1969, 1970, 1972, 1977, 1979 - R/Up 1971, 1973, 1974
New Zealand Sportsperson of the Year (Halberg Award) 1977 and 1979.& still No knighthood.
Long Track World Champion 1971, 1972, 1976 R/Up 1974, 1975
World Pairs Champion 1969, 1970 R/Up 1971, 1972, 1978, 1981
Speedway World Team Cup Champion 1968, 1971, 1972, 1979
European Champion 1966, 1970, 1971, 1975
British Champion 1968, 1970, 1971, 1972
Intercontinental Champion 1975
New Zealand Champion 1974, 1981
New Zealand Long Track Champion 1983, 1984, 1985, 1986
New Zealand South Island Champion 1977, 1981, 1983
Australasian Champion 1977, 1981
Australasian Grand Prix winner 1970, 1971, 1972
Sunday Times King of Claremont winner 1973, 1980, 1981, 1983
British-Nordic Champion 1968, 1971
British League Riders Champion 1971, 1973
Embassy Internationale Winner 1970, 1971, 1972
Northern Riders Champion 1964, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1972, 1980
Provincial League Riders Champion 1963, 1964
Lubos Tomicek Memorial Trophy Winner 1971, 1972, 1973, 1979
Silver Sash Match Race Champion 1968, 1969
Golden Helmet Match Race Champion 1970
Scottish Open Champion 1970, 1971, 1972, 1973
Scotianapolis Winner 1969, 1970
Welsh Open Champion 1964, 1973
Westernapolis Winner 1968, 1968, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1975
Leningrad Cup (USSR) Winner 1969
Lokeren Memorial Trophy Winner 1970
Golden Key of Bremen 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1974, 1975
Australian Long Track Champion 1962
Victorian State Champion (Australia) 1962, 1963
Queensland State Champion (Australia) 1962
Western Australian State Champion 1973
Yorkshire Television Trophy 1975, 1978, 1979, 1980
Lada Indoor International 1979
British Long Track Champion 1980
World Champion of Champions Match Race Series 1989
SA- 150 Jubilee Trophy 1986
Ivan, - Voted world speedway rider of the Century. also.,!!!
@@mtl-ss1538 So you're saying he changed the laws of physics, or just won a lot of competitions? :)
Hi John, whilst I’m a caravan owner I genuinely appreciate your towing videos and sharing your extensive knowledge. It’s greatly appreciated. I have a much greater understanding of the dangers of towing heavy loads and practical limits thanks to these videos. Thanks!
No worries Matthew - you're very welcome. Thank you for watching.
I agree, we where forced to face the facts and purchase a different car for towing.
Thanks for the videos.
Hear, hear!
I’ve been saying for years that towing weight should be limited to the weight of the tow vehicle. People just look at me like I’m the idiot. More people need to see this video
I've gone one BIG step further. I wouldn't dream of towing my 3,500kg Bushtracker "shit-whar" (I hope I spelt that correctly...spell-checker seemed a bit confused)with anything less than my current vehicle of choice....a 2012 Chev Silverado 3500HD (single rear wheel). It has a GVM of 5,171kg and a GCM of 11,113kg.
Oodles of torque (over 1,200NM and power to burn) and fuel economy that would make a 200 Series Blandcruiser owner weep!
So, my own personal line-in-the-sand is a trailer with a ATM of approx 75% of the GVM (actual) of the tow vehicle.
But there's even more to it than that.
Tow vehicle's wheelbase and distance from rear axle to trailer pivot being but two. The other is weight distribution of the van itself. Whoever decided that hanging two bloody great heavy offroad spare tyres off the back of ANY van (I'm referring to pig-type vans here) needs to be certified!
@@billroach2393 Just guessing, but I think the spelling is "shitoir". Could be wrong, I did make a mistake once.
@@jeffreythompson9549 I'm flat-out managing the English language, so I got fuckin' Buckley's of mastering Greek...hahaha
Of course people will look at you like you're mad. You're telling me you think a Kensworth T410 should only be allowed to tow 7 tonne?
Shit like your suggestion is why we end up with such shit ADR's for vehicles in Australia. You've thought about it for all 30 seconds come to the conclusion that's a brilliant idea and should absolutely be implemented and then gone on extolling the virtues of this amazing insightful idea for years and despite people looking at you like you maybe touched in the head time and time again, you've failed to consider the full ramification of such a stupid idea. You are the exact sort of person that end's up in government, making utterly insane short sighted decisions for the future of this country, so kudos on the successful career ahead.
@@clintonepps3666 there are plenty of tow hitch options available that raise or lower the tow ball so you can properly level a trailer with your vehicle. Trailers are not made to be towed behind a particular vehicle. That would be stupid because even sedans come in different ride heights. People need to educate themselves if they plan to tow any weight trailer. They need to equip the tow vehicle correctly and take the time each trip to ensure they have a properly balanced load regardless of the tow vehicle or trailer they are towing. A poorly loaded and hitched 1000kg trailer behind a 1600kg vehicle can make for a dangerous trip. You might be lucky 9 out of 10 trips but it only takes 1 not so lucky trip for the lucky ones to mean nothing.
Excellent! Looks like John does have a heart and cares for his fellow man, no matter how stupid or uninformed he or she is. Took the time to explain, using facts, about why one should not tow the amount of mass proposed by his fan’s/subscriber’s written question. Thank you John. I suspect your video will save more than one life from a lethal vehicular accident.
This felt like a battle : John (with his facts) vs The Marketing department.
“Hours from the nearest trauma centre because someone has suffered a brain injury”. I’ve always assumed that happened before the purchase of a caravan. In all seriousness copping a fine is one issue, not being payed out by insurance and getting charged with manslaughter is worse IMO.
Tosser what do u do for kicks ,play with yourself
@@aulord80 Some people act hard on RUclips to get over the trauma as a child for kicks. You can sue the church with a good lawyer you know.
As an ex truck owner and a boat owner you are 100% correct.
Good job, missed nothing.
Educated and entertained.
I'm not sure if anyone has pointed this out, you are a really good teacher. I'm a degree qualifed engineer and don't recall ever having a lecture or concept explained as well as that. Awesome work, really!
It's scary that people are still asking you these questions when you've been quite vocal on 3.5T towing. Some of the dodgy towing I've seen on the M1. Front of the tow vehicle up in the air. Disaster waiting to happen!
You ought to see the things I see every day wobbling along the Capricorn Highway up here in central Queensland. Holy crap…
@@TheWombat2012 oh yeah... Having no annual inspections is a great idea... Lol
@@LZYEYEST0081 We have serial killers as well as no roadworthy in South Australia gives you more space.
The moral of the story: tow the minimum, not the maximum.
@@pearlfarm1 If you were towing 0 you wouldn't be towing would you?.
@@graemesydney38 So 0.001kg's?
Tow aluminium, not the maximum.
As someone who tows a seventeen hundred kilo camper around I realised a few years ago how fucked we were when camping areas put in drive thru sites as more and more Mobil shithouses could not be reversed into a site by daylight the next day.keep up what your doing love your stuff
An old wise man told me when I first got my licence never tow anything heavier than the tow vehicle. And it’s served me well
"Physics doesn't give a shit if you live or die". Couldn't agree more. Very informative and factual video. Thanks John.
Nailed it John. It isn't just Isuzu making these claims, the rest of the manufacturers are doing likewise. I have been mentioning this very subject to a few people I know and still they go wallet first into stupidity... another Tuber (Robert Pepper - L2SFBC) has been covering this topic
Speaking of licencing, I fail to understand how basic car licence holders are at all qualified to even be in control of a mobile articulated shitter weighing 6 tonnes and 12mtrs in length, especially when to drive a light truck more than 4 or 4.5t you need to have at least a LR licence. No, according to the governments of straya, you can work behind a desk all of your life and have limited driving experience, retire, drop 200k on your 4WD and mobile wife swapping party pad and hit the highway. WTF.
I hear what you're saying but you are mixing GVMs and GCMs. A car licence class C is legal up to a GVM of 4.5T or a GCM of 6T. A light truck LT class is good for (scratching head) about a GVM of 7T and a GCM of 9T?? or around there.
Totally agree with you towing anything other than a garden size box trailer or say 750kG should need a separate endorsement on the licence and regular medicals.
At least we’re better than the US. Most states allow a car licence to drive any vehicle up to 12ton.
@@gregf4170 I've seen that, totally nuts, 18 year old kids driving full sized buses converted into campers.
@@raygale4198 Yes I was generalising about the weights when it comes to GVM and GCM. I maybe should have explained it better, my statement was more about weights versus velocity and the way heavier vehicles react. 👍
@@raygale4198 That and they can legally drive stuff like Challenger Hellcats (if their parents can afford them one) at 16 or 17 years old.
You should see some the monstrosities some of the traveller communities bring over from Ireland to the UK. And they're being towed by VW Transporters and Land Rover DIscoveries. Like a full mobile home on a couple of axles.
Does anyone in the world review like JC?
Absolutely 💯 GOLD
I imagine the reason pig trailers are so common is because reversing a dog trailer takes real skill the average person doesn't have or doesn't get enough practice at.
Reversing a pig trailer is no easy job either. The average drivers cannot drive with trailer (me included), that's just fact.
Thar’s why we have dolly locks
@@GuitarsRockForever secret to reversing a trailer is to know how many pivot points there are...two points of pivot (Dog) the arse end of the towing vehicle needs to point in the direction you want the rear of the trailer etc...Then the worst part of backing a (Pig) trailer is the distance between the coupling and the center of the axles...(pivot point)... as the shorter that distance the more temperamental the steering needs to be... (spent years backing dollies and 1st trailers into 2nd trailer roadtrains... Some skilled drivers can reverse 4 pivot point combinations ie... 1st n 2nd trailers plus the dolly onto the 3rd trailer...
And turning corners in forward motion…..average joe struggles without a trailer
@@brentonasmith
The average drivers cannot change lane, merge lane, give way or stop properly too.
People talk of 3.5 ton trailers like it’s f all.., 3.5 k kg is a not “F all”…
People are fn nuts…
"Pedestrian shredding crash safety compromiser" has a nice ring to it.
I’m a professional trucker John 35yrs. One point you didn’t touch on some of these people never towed anything before. Then start towing with no experience at all with there family’s on board it’s like Russian roulette. It’s just freaking crazy mate
I used to think the traffic code in South Africa that we borrowed from the UK was stupid in that you need a seperate class/category of license to tow a trailer over 750 Kg GVM. But looking at this, I can understand the wisdom. I'm also a trucker and I have seen too many horrors even with horse trailers, with horses having to be put down because the trailer went too wobbly
I just noticed that the genuine counterfeit Three Pointed Suppository has been inverted in such a way that it resembles a Ming Moll's g-banger. Coincidence?
It's how they roll in Hell. (With the star inverted.) Merc is, of course, the official vehicle supplier to Satan and his senior executives. Several MMs were auditioned to get the orientation bang-on.
@@AutoExpertJC Or banging during the orientation; something like that. :)
@William Mulvaney another name for a g string.
I remember when I first learnt to drive my father told me never tow any load heavier than the towing vehicle. I of course ignored this the first time I towed something and soon found out why it was a bad idea! Dad was right and so is John on this subject!
Hi from Thailand, John. Love your mixture of over-the-top rants and common sense. You can be comforted by my observation there are no caravans here.
Partner and I purchased a caravan, no shitter for a get away block.
When I asked how long the master cylinder had been siezed they told me they used it at Easter up the east coast of Tassie.
Anyway 4 hrs later and new master and wheel cylinder and a flexible hose to the axle we have breaks.
They had towed it for 2 years with no brakes and had no idea. 😳
Good observation mate... Worst part about being aware of mechanical issues is all the stress involved when one knows they're pushing the limits... in this situation "ignorance is bliss"
Just "Pure Farktards".... It's just a pity that these people are, obliviously, allowed to do such stupid shizten things.
+ they injure other innocent motorists at times.....
& their excuse " I didn't know" ( the master was fark'ed....)
As usual, an informative and straight talking video. # Respect John and Good Wishes from London.
John, love your vids especially the towing education, a subject I am earnestly devout in but unfortunately will fall an a lot of deaf ears. I have to share my caravan experience. My child bride and myself took of for the wide open plains in 1978 with a G60 Nissan Patrol and a 24ft Viscount Supreme, it was our home for 4 years and was a formidable, reliable outfit. the rules and regulations were not as strict then but i soon learnt if you wanted to enjoy the drive you had to be set up correctly and follow some basic rules of the road like courtesy. The Nissan would poke along at 90 k all day long and while only good for 13mpg on a good day fuel was only 18cpl. Moving ahead 40 years and kids gone we got the bug back and bought a 2002 Rodeo 2wd dual cab 3.2 V6 auto. Why? because I had a few of them and found them to be Rhino tough and because it was to be my tug I did not want to spend $45,000 on something that would sit in the shed most of it's life. Auto so the wife could drive. We found a good basic (no onboard ablution facility) 17ft van that suits our purpose well. We get away about 4 times a year for 1,2 or 4 week jaunts and because we are on holidays we don't have to take the treadmill and most other household items. Enough of that. I am pedantic on car / van setup. GCM is 3740kg and with wife full load, 2 small dogs and loaded van comes in at 3700 kg on the weighbridge. ATM 1740kg with 174kg tow ball weight. It is a good rig and does a sterling job. Now to the Crux of this. As I said setup and overload is a massive issue overlooked by people with the 4WD/ large caravan combination that can do 100+ KPH. This all leads into driving education. Speed- You are on holidays, If DPC is 1000klm away why do you have to get there in one day? settle down take 2-3 days and enjoy the trip. If you only have a week off take a plane. Overtaking- This is the area most accidents occur, give yourself plenty of time. RE your Vid of the 4WD & boat going rsup is a classic of positive and negative air pressures. Country roads have plenty of overtaking lanes. On the other side you are entitled to drive at 90 kph and Semi trailers have a right to be on the road so allow some courtesy. If truck comes up behind you and you have a VHF give the truck a call and arrange for safe overtaking, he will appreciate it and you might not get a broken windscreen. Anyway I waffled on long enough but along with your excellent vid this is all about safety on the road and enjoying what caravans are all about.
90% of set ups out there are dangerously overloaded. The other 10% are on the ragged edge.
It is becoming an epidemic.
@@AutoExpertJC at least years ago you crawled along and took it easy. These days you can cruise along at full speed towing an over weight load.
Some of us are well within legal limits because we did our homework first. Admittedly nothing should actually tow what is rated to tow but this is the government’s fault on more than one level, firstly their ratings are stupid and second of all their laws that make purchasing a proper tow vehicle both prohibitive and difficult due to their taxes and laws on what constitutes a truck and the laws that govern them. Due to this tomfoolery, they allow a D-max tow too much and then stop a Ram 2500 or some such equivalent from towing or carrying what it is well able to.
@@TheTripleDubya "Some of us are well within legal limits because we did our homework first" And this comment right here shows that you still dont get it!
94.2% of statistics are made up
You nailed yet again John. I remember a accident back in 1980 on Logan Rd, Brisbane heading towards the Glen Hotel. This strip of road had two lanes on each side in a 80kph zone.
I was following a Holden Statesman towing a car trailer with a car loaded on it. I went to overtake in the outside lane when the trailer started wagging it’s tail, it started to get really bad to the point the car was being pulled backwards across the highway until it was all completely off the road.
I dropped back off this as it started to wag as I felt it was very unsafe to pass, and to add to this it was on a downhill part of thePacific highway (Logan Rd).
Luckily no one was hurt as it could have ended in people getting hurt or worse because that car on the trailer was loaded incorrectly.
It is something I will never forget.
thankyou John for the video. i think one of the problems is that people are being told they are riving a 'truck' when they are not. As a professional truck driver I see it all the time from vans pulling up to the high flow bowsers to front tyres barely on the ground. Although i am generally against over regulation I think we are getting close to the time for licencing drivers to tow vans especially the large ones although plenty of people get into plenty of trouble with the smaller ones as well. Thanks for your channel. Cheers Ned
Yep, I have driven semis, and would agree that towing any trailer with brakes (750kg and up) should require a different licence, not just a regular car licence.
Great video John, well explained for those technically minded. It’s very concerning that so many vehicle / caravan combinations travelling this great land are dangerously overloaded. They wonder why things go pear sharped very quickly, but the sales person said it would be OK.. Keep up the great videos, I am sure they are saving some from disaster.
It's quite amazing the number of Ute's with these huge vans that I have seen in recent years laying on their sides at or near the bottom of the Mooney Mooney bridge. The weight going down hill makes them pick up speed, then the wobble sets in and the inexperienced driver just becomes a passenger.
John another great video with so much content backed up by your entertaining and informative explanations of the various relationships involved. All explained in a no nonsense common sense approach ( are we still allowed to use common sense?). Thanks for helping us all survive covid lockdown. A great way to start the day.
That was a really informative video John. Thank you.
Great break down, I’m sure I’m not the only person who liked your older clips/info with out the OTT bs, please keep up this approach cos there are plenty of punters that will benefit from your wisdom 👍
Yes, I long ago ditched his videos because of the interminable, tawdry 'comedy' act. I just watched this video out of interest in the subject matter. It was such a surprise to see that at least the butchers' paper segment was very well done and largely free of the boring bs. He is well qualified to discuss the topic. I would watch more of his videos if they were done like this.
Thanks 🙏 for the great video you do it so well, I would never have thought 💭 of all that important stuff.
No worries Roman - thanks for watching.
Well said, someone that talks sence. With utes the distance between the rear axle and the tow ball is too big allowing greater leverage from the swing to effect the steering. A big SUV where the axel to tow ball distance is short has far better handling.
Very well explained John as I personally wouldn’t tow anything heavier than the tow vehicle . 👍🍻
deja-vu, you did a magnificent description of the car/van and towing weights and requirements.
My Wife and I sat down and digested all your information and sold our nearly 3T Van.
We are now looking to go back to a camper, not the 950kG Kimberley Kamper, but a 1,200kG hybrid, the 2021 Navara will be a lot happier with this.
You've probably saved a few lives cobber. Good on ya mate, from sheep shagistan,. Love you long time 🤣
zealman, you'd hope that some people would listen. But sadly, too many think that they know better. I post these links to various caravan forums only to get the "what would he know?" type of response in return.
Nothing will change until legislation to regulate the towing industry is made more stringent. Start with the trailer having to weigh less than the car. But that would eliminate most vans off of our roads, which many people think is A Good Idea.
Thanks John, I have wondered the same each time I see such a setup on the highway.
Why do you need such a big van? John I am glad Mr Singh asked for your advice and I hope he takes it, the issue with weights seems to confuse a lot of people. It seems to me that many forget they need food water, sleeping apparel, rods , bait , ice , beer, etc. I watched a suspension upgrade vid and they were weighing vehicles and then discussing the problems. One stuck in my mind was a guy built up a 200 series landcruiser to take his son on an extended adventure, all new. It was under GVM as long as the 2 of them and their food only weighed 9kg. Because it was under warranty a GVM upgrade would void said warranty, a subject you have covered. So began the task of shedding weight. $150k heartbreaker.
Sean Workman, i have definitely took John’s advice and will not be buying the vehicle. Also the fact that I will not be towing 3.5 tonnes, all I am doing is the research before getting stuck.
@@harveysingh6139 pleased to hear, towing trailers can be quite a challenge and it is so easy to overload your vehicle.
Best of luck with the research and planning. A tip for practicing to tow a trailer (I am not sure how much you have done) is to use a toy. As a boy I was curious and built a tow vehicle and trailer out of lego. I found that that is how they train the drivers of those huge trucks. Anyone can make a trailer go forward but if you can't make it go backwards forget it.
Good video. I shake my head when I see some of the rigs out there. You can get a decent sized 20ft on road van with ATM ~2.5T which I suggest is okay for a ute. The problem is with the beefed up off road vans ATM 3.5T+ for that you need a heavily modified cruiser or an American pickup truck.
Another great video John, a couple of things come to mind after watching this yesterday, first off I really wonder if Old Mate has ever towed a large caravan before, we used to have a van tandem axle, 21ft and weighed in at 1700kg and our tow vehicle was a 2009 Kia Sorrento with a, I think 2100kg tow limit. That all sounds fairly safe but on the wrong road, in a dodgie spot of bitumen, side wind you certainly knew it was hooked on behind.
So to even contemplate dragging 3500kg's of what ever around with a Spunked up Ute, no way known. The DMaX and similar size
2-2.5tonne max despite what the manufacturer says. 2500kg's and over you need a light truck and not a big ute. Without crunching any numbers, I would be looking at an F250 at least with a Goose Neck or 5th Wheeler type hitch.
The DipShits that recommend these types of weights obviously have never hitched this amount of weight onto a ute and driven a couple of hundred K's covering many types of road conditions.
It seems to me a lot of people try to get their Hilux to do what a Land Cruiser should be or the Land Cruiser what an F150 ditto F250 and so on, sending a boy on a man's mission.
Anyway I hope Old Mate takes some notice of the info on here and would be great if he gets back to you with his decision. Going on a trip is great and it's always nice if you come home in relatively the same condition. cheers.
Thanks John, I do like these topics of towing things that way 3.5tons behind a vehicle that’s a tad over 2tons . I’ve towed for years, and still think there should be some kind of licensing competency tests for understanding towing loads.
Love your work John!
Great report, as always John. Cheers from portugal.
Thanks Mario - all the best and thanks for watching!
"Even lets say your skinny.... you're vegans or something" hahaha love the random humour.
That wasn't 'random'.
THAT WAS TARGETED!
Not too many obese vegans I note. I could go 'vegan' - except for the whole 'no meat' thing...
@@AutoExpertJC Bro just be a second hand vegan.... Because all the animals I eat are!
@@mcduck5 Or become a member of PETA - People Eating Tasty Animals...
@@mjpt57 already a member, pays to cover ones bases...
Everyone who wants to tow above a certain mass (say 1000kg as an arbitrary example) should be forced to watch your videos on towing and pass both a written and practical test.
Actually John, there was a “good” bridge failure. The Tacoma Narrows bridge failure, spectacular as it was and filmed, revolutionised the design of bridges by including the study of aerodynamics and resonance effects in structures. All civil engineering students were aware of this when I went through in the 70’s.
It is my understanding that professional civil engineers already knew not to design and build a suspension bridge in that manner because it would fail. John Roebling, designer of the Brooklyn Bridge, published his knowledge and experience in a book, decades earlier; that laid out the correct design approach and the logic behind that approach for such a bridge. Civil engineering wind load knowledge was reportedly advanced after the bridge collapse BUT the official enquiry appears to have been a deliberate ‘white wash’ in regard to negligence and incompetence on the part of the bridge designers.
You deserve a bigger platform. Thankyou..!!!
My flogging spanner agrees, wholeheartedly. It's poised to build one, any time.
That will be on he'll of a soap box
I’ve been telling people this for years, the brakes on these utes are pitiful
The brakes on the utes are fine. The brakes on trailers are crap. If the trailer brakes handles the trailer load then the ute brakes like normal.
True , but you have trailer brakes , the trailer effectively stops itself if adjusted correctly .
@@alexfrankl7861 not without the aid of the tow vechile especially under emergency braking. Simply compare the tiny trailer brakes and tires to the utes brakes and tires.
@@tweake7175 300mm drums on the ute , 300mm drums on both axles on a 3.5t tandem ( to reg ) 254mm drums on the van , brakes are not an issue , tyres are comparable , these trailers are completely capable of stopping themselves as well as the tow vehicle , tried and tested .
@@alexfrankl7861 no ute has had drums as their main brakes for over 60 years. drum rears don't do a whole lot compared to the front disks.
trailers disks brakes work a lot better, but they are typically smaller, non-ventilated and do not have abs (which is now available for trailers).
plus its rare to have ute sized tires on trailers, they are generally smaller and narrower.
you have a trailer with 1960's braking vers modern utes with big brakes and electronic wizbangs, guess which one handles the hills better and stops quicker. its not the trailer.
Always enjoy these videos.
I don't think Isuzu will say that in their COVID-safe Monday Zoom conference. I estimate that swear words will be associated with my name...
You are freaking brilliant! I feel like I just took a towing masterclass -- thank you!
Having built a tri axle dog trailer for my ute, it's exactly what you say John in terms of load.
My dog rated at 3500 kg sits behind the ute nicely at 100 kph and it will whip to side and side if you swerve suddenly at 100 kph but it's completely controllable.
I love my dog trailer and enjoy it entirely.
The one side effect is backing them up, it takes talent to reverse but can be learned.
Bloody tops !! Thoroughly enjoyed this !!
Great video John. If only what passes for driver education in Australia could include this information we'd have safer highways. Let's hope this message gets out there.
Dear John.. 😂
Well done mate. The best practical explanation of applied towing physics I've encountered.
In my opinion, despite encouraging more administrative taxes, every driver wishing to tow, at the very least, more than the unbraked capacity of the vehicle must competently complete a towing specific driving course and a towing class certification displayed on their license.
We already do this for five different variations of trucks, two variations of private marine licenses and two variations of motorcycles.
How is towing a potentially deadly mass behind a readily available consumer product any different?
Keep up the great work.
Finally! An understandable succinct explanation of the mysterious world of towing physics, numbers and dynamics. I now know that my combination of a 2011 Disco 4 and a 2.5 ton caravan is both legal and as safe-ish as a combination of tow vehicle and caravan will allow.
Me and my Sheila got 4” lift, 35’s and bull bars…we tow 3500kg all over Australia 💪🚀
Good explanation John. I wholeheartedly agree the manufacturer’s should be required to state a real world number: maybe GCM - GVM gives a pretty good, workable number to work with.
Excellent John I live in western Qld and to sit by the highway going through town and watch some of the rigs it is downright scared. I have 35 + years towing experience and a truck licence and I have given up trying to hammer home the point
So you mean to say I shouldn't be towing two tonne of firewood 50 k's down Waterfall Way with a '98 Magna wagon?
Energy is Mass X Velocity, if you go rooollly rooollly slowly it's still bad.
check out the spot welds.. overloading a monocoque stretches them out nicely.
@@petesmitt Sure does, I towed a trailer with motorbike, all up just over 500kG for a few thousand K's behind my diesel Hyundai i30, no problem at all with the power but I had to tighten the tow bar mounts almost daily and now the rear doors don't quite fit the opening like they used to. Monocoque bodies should not tow, specially front wheel drive
Of course it’s ok! It’s only caravans that are the problem!
Seems to be a correlation between lack of logic and people beliving advertised numbers.
Car makers are complicit in the remake of the old 'Murican! "Highways of Agony" safety films by even posting these numbers. Anyone involved in a crash involving this type of vehicle configuration needs to name them as defendants in lawsuits and/or criminal charges for recklessness (being aware of the physics but telling people it's okay to keep towing way over the actual safe weight).
Thanks John. Informative and entertaining as usual. Nat (Scotland)
Great explanation. Thank you. I work at an outback Roadhouse and see many overweight combinations on a daily basis 🤦
I love telling my mates about your educational videos and they're like meh it will be alright. I'm always that guy who sees a 4X4 and think wonder how close he is to GVM or over😂
Thanks john, I don't agree with some of your opinions but you totally nail this!
DP creek, love your humor mate, and you make good commoners sense - I'm subscribed
Love everything you say on every video...just a man in Northumberland, England who discovered you somehow, a year or so ago !
Very good video. I have owned 3.5T towing cars for years. I've never looked this far into the maths but I have always limited my max towing to about 2.7T because I just think towing weights greatly inexcess of the tow vehicles weight is crazy. Not to mention the additional wear on the car being pushed to its limit. Plus I've had brakes and actuators fail in places its hard to get repairs but still have been able to safely get to repair points, etc, which at max load may otherwise be dangerous.
At max load mechanical failures happen much more often, on top of the consequences being worse.
The lack of a seperate endorsement/ training/testing for heavy towing is a great indicator of the TRUE level of concern for road safety!
As long as ppl keep paying the speeding tax..who cares about death and carnage!
One thing that needs to be asked: What is the suspension on the trailer? Fixed at the front / slipper rear suspension allows the axle to move at an angle. Ideal is to keep the trailer axle at 90 degrees to the chassis and the direction of travel. Where the problem is, the distance from the fixed point to the axle changes, thereby changing the angle of the axle over the road. I had two pup / pig trailers, both single axle, one two wheel, GVM on the road just on 4 tonne, fixed spring at the front, slipper arrangement at the back. That trailer would dance up to a foot either side of the towing unit. Had to be very careful with it in traffic. This trailer was rated for 4.495 tonne. The other trailer was a single axle, 4 wheel. Torsion bar suspension, slippers both ends. Had 7.2 tonne GVM on this trailer many times. Always behaved itself, never deviated from the line of the truck.
In the early days of air bag suspensions on the 2 axle dog trailers, they were known for the front axle / dolly, dancing all over the road. This can be attributed to the above problem. Changing the distance from the axle to the front hinge point. This causes the axle to leave the 90 degree line and steer the axle down the road.
As for the "Mermaids" and their Portable Wheel Scales... would it surprise you to find out that they are using a tolerance for the testing of their scales which has not been approved by any Parliament within Australia, and, is up to 4 times what is legally allowed under law? Yes, the evidence against the Mermaids is out there, and that also applies to the courts! If a dumb truck driver can get out of offences on the portables, a lawyer who knows their stuff should have a field day with the prosecution and the court! This has been documented back to 1995, and to my knowledge, no one has picked up on this fact!
here in north america(i'm in canada), we have a vast choice of family vehicles perfectly setup for towing 3.5 tons and much more depending in the model. this is the modern 4wd 4 door pickup truck, generally available in 1/2, 3/4 and 1 ton models. they are ideal for towing such loads over long distances. our combo is typical, ram 1500 4door with 7000 lb(gross) trailer(caravan). we have choices from toyota(tundra), nissan, and of course the "big three"; ford, gm, and chrysler(ram)
one thing i should add to your information is trailer weight as per the manufacturer. the advertised weight is "dry weight" ie empty, usually no water, no propane cylinders, no battery, spare wheel etc etc and it is very easy to add a another 1000 lbs or more when prepping a trailer for a trip. our trailer is 4900 lbs empty according to the manufacturer and has a gross rating of 7000 lb. i weighed it loaded for a trip a few years ago and it was 6800lbs!!
In the us the big 4x4s are so much heavier than the kit thy see in stralia and we see in the uk / I run a small workshop and recovery business I will not send any old truck to go get a horse box it has to be a 12 tonner 21000lbs, as the authorities here frown on overloading
@@simonjones7785 they sure are, our ram 1500 weighs around 5500 lbs and is body on frame construction, well suited for load equalizing hitches or 5th wheel hitches
What's a llb.? We speak French here in Straya
So the Porsche SUV I saw pulling a 28 Foot Airstream the other day fits this category of person that has to much money and not enough brains to buy a Ford F250 truck?
Sounds like jealousy to me
Or small mind syndrome just because someone’s got a Porsche and you don’t.
I don’t know where the F250 would be any better anyway
@@lastknownlocation8760 are you thick? Did you not watch the video?
Unless you live next door to dingo piss creek, an F250 is an equally stupid buying decision. Very very few actually need a “truck” in Australia. Its just a dick swinging contest.
@@youreaknob I think he drives a porksh
Gvm of the porka/audi/vw is one of the best
Thank Q. For the Beer Garden lesson.Now, did l hear the bell.
For home time.
As an aspiring tow-your-effluent-around-Australia wannabe I'm looking at all the RUclipsrs telling you how to do it and what an amazing experience it is.
All (or mostly) sponsored up the wazoo by multiple companies trying to get their products on air.
Before I started watching John's videos (esp the ones about towing, GVM's etc) I was completely unaware of the potential dangers.
I assumed you'd just hook up your van and it's off to DPC.
Now I look at a lot of those channels and see dad with his ute, fully tricked out tray and canopy, couple of spares hanging off the back, bullbar, towbar, sidebars, roof rack, solar panels, boat, wife and kids plus massive van and think he is either a miracle worker to get that lot under GCM or is just unaware of it.
Even though I'll be sorely tempted when I walk into the likes of ARB etc, I'm going to take the approach that less is more.
Wow someone that explains it all properly thanks john
Thanks for the video. I guess you don't go camping...... totally agree with our mortality but there people on a budget out there. Many are elderly. It's great that you educate people and I am thankful. I realise my rig is severely unbalanced and overweight. I will take what I have learnt today and use it.. thank you
Great advice. Thank you. Illusions of Grandeur strikes yet again. I'm guessing this is why there's a bunch of fandangled caravan electronic break additions for Caravans now as the commonly used tow vehicles (Dax etc) simply aren't capable. You may have just saved my life from a very bad decision. I believe I now need to consider a much heavier vehicle and or stick to a truck scenario (MH).
John, I absolutely love watching your videos from time to time. You have just the right phrases... _a Shitoir_ en route to _Dingo Piss Creek_ Absolute quality. Gave me such a laugh
Good advice on what “not to buy” to tow. Would like some on what “to” buy
Well done mate, good job.
this is a great eye opener for a lot of people towing trailers , but should also point out the trade's with their tool boxes and canopies mounted on the back, loaded with all their tools and parts for jobs. and their lifted suspension and over sized mud wheels
Yes but their trailers probably have a max ATM of 2,000kg. Plus they drive it everyday. So although it's a lot of stuff and some drive far too agressively, it's not the same risk as towing a 3,500kg caravan.
Lots of towing ive seen has the rear of the vehicle full of gear + the trailer, on standard rear suspension. Like the factory springs are soft unloaded and also adequate for the full load ratings the vehicles are given.
Nice work John. Nice work.
Very well explained. Clearly, bigger is not always better.
Most important thing when interstate towing especially now days is to consider the Covid viral load as well .. just not sure how that effects the entire towing equation.😜😀😷
Bought my mux from Major motors in WA three years ago. Before I was allowed to drive away the sales rep sat me down and pulled out a file of paperwork and went through all of the things you've explained with me and I then had to sign off on them. I was then given a copy to keep.
John. Having weighed my 4x4 with all of the accessories I feel that the majority of modified 4x4's are over their gvm unless they have paid for an upgrade even before adding a 3500kg tin can on the back...
Definitely - many 4X4s are overloaded with all that useless shit they buy from ARB, etc.
@@AutoExpertJC you hav'nt covered mud terrains yet , you've covered everything else i run 😁
Saw a 4×4 channel on RUclips do an episode on this and they were in a workshop weighing peoples 4×4s and at least half were over gvm without anybody in the car , some were so close to gvm that the driver would have put the car over weight. People think they can load these things up with accessories, stick all their shit and 5 people in and go road tripping.
Very informative John. Any one who drives one of these mobile chicanes need their head read. Cheers-John.
Best video you’ve done mate 👌
Excellent advice and another use for a flogging spanner I had not thought of.
Just a different kind of flogging...
Great video mate well done thank you
Once the work trailer got to 2.5 tonne the Hilux and trailer were sold and bought a Hino truck. Best move I made by a mile
I had a Hino truck that's done 1,5million km's☺
My dear late father, who used to tow heavy loads on the regular, always told me never to tow more than the vehicle weight , alas I’m sure it was against the law to do so , in the not so distant past. I think “real pulling power” must mean something else entirely
Interesting concept. My jeep is rated to tow half of it’s weight and my f250 is rated to tow double it’s weight.
Don’t forget the wind drag with the big square box behind , the little Ute will be drinking fuel like no tomorrow.
I also often wonder how long one of these vehicles would last if it continually towed 3 to 3.5 tonne.
Not sure on that, but I think if you keep on your maintenance they should be alright . I know your running cost are going to go through the roof .
I own a BT50 3.2Ltr Ute. Highway cycle with no van I get 11.6ltr per 100km. With my 2.5t van the average highway cycle comes in at 16.5ltr per 100km. So fuel consumption is what, near enough to 40% up when towing.
Hi John, as a person who works at a big hardware store that happens to be green in colour, I see overloading and incorrect loading happen all the time, almost always by complete accident. What I find it's tradies who overload trailers, and it's DIYers who overload roof racks. The car might take it, but physics won't.
Saw that this week at an off ramp on the M1. The jack-knifed trailer, with way too many sheets of 2.4 x 1.2mtr on it, was still sitting upright. The tow vehicle was on it's side.