My parents are currently touring Australia. Purchased a luxury off road van weighing 3 ton but also a FG Fuso 4x4 wide body crew cab truck to tow it. With a GVM of 6500kg and GCM of 10000kg, its a easy tow. Dad specced the truck for remote travel. Canopy on rear with extensive secure shelving, draws,etc , extra tyres on rims, tools, spares, upgraded air ride ISSI seating, front and read winches,etc. Designed for both convenience and independence. Dad has dedicated his career, 50 years, to delivering fuel to the most remote communities and stations in Australia, so knows exactly what is required of a vehicle. Haven't seen them for six months but inundated daily with updates.👍👍🇭🇲
@@dilligaf2818 cannot tell some people. So what if zero BAC, 100k limit for towing anyway, which I bet he does not realise, except in QLD, many states have annual roadworthies on cars, in most cases LR are not subjected to weighins, and who cares, if you are legal, and most towing with other tugs are not, QLD police have proven that recently, 90% over weight, the reason most don't is because they belong to either the Toyota or Nissan beard stroking crowd. LOL
Sounds like a tow job for a 4wd 4.5t truck with a soft hitch. Edited to add that we were thinking the same thing. The soft hitch is so the truck doesn't shake the caravan to pieces.
@@lastknownlocation8760 According to the Iveco Australia website, the 50C18 Single Cab Euro VI has a GVM of 4495kg and a GCM of 7995kg. 7995kg-4495kg = 3500kg. So 3500kg is the maximum it could tow but you could definitely still put people and stuff into the truck. The caravan being asked about is 2700kg. Definitely well within towing capacity. Plus the lovely option of being able to have people and a bunch of stuff on the truck. If someone had their heart set on a 3500kg caravan, they could get a 5th wheeler and tow that with a 4495kg truck. Am a horse person and very keen on GVMs and GCMs.
John, you ask how difficult it was to arrive at a bearable combination. I ended up purchasing a Mitsubishi Triton GSR and a 2.5 tonne (GTM) caravan. I'm not a motor vehicle technical type person but my entire working career of 46+ years has been as an analyst so working out all the masses, limits and safety parameters is something that I ought to have been able to tackle; it required a lot of research and fact-checking, and it was a nightmare, a long nightmare at that. There is a plethora of misinformation out there on the interwebs, and a lot of information that simply does not apply in Australia. It was difficult to sort through what was correct and what was not and then to cross reference it against legislation and various road rule summaries to ensure both safety and legality. It took revision after revision to get the calculations right, and in the end I solved the entire problem by creating a spreadsheet with provision for six different weight distribution scenarios based on the actual weight of absolutely everything being carried, and ensuring that the Triton, when loaded, was at least 200kg heavier than the fully laden caravan would ever be. I came away thinking that this is definitely not something the average Joe Public would even contemplate, let alone actually do and succeed at. I expect that there are a lot of dangerously overloaded rigs out there. Regards, a bearded, cellulite hot-pants dream-living beard-stroker now touring Shitsville and Dingo Piss Creek in an acoustically transparent aluminium shitoire. PS: As an analyst, recently retired, I was paid well north of six figures a year just for stroking my beard and occasionally muttering "Hmmm! Hmm! Ahhh!" so beard-stroking can't be all that bad.
I would not want to be towing 2.5 ton with a triton ute, nor any of the crop of desperately over rated utes. I wouldnt even do it with my landcruiser. It just doesnt work, emergency braking on a bend. I know this because ive done it. Towing 1.8 tons at night avoiding wildlife at night. Good luck and drive accordingly.
@@philipmann9548 It's legal and within specs, 2.5t is modest in comparison to what so many other people tow, so many people towing well over 3.2t with a fully loaded ute. Anything you do comes with risk, towing an empty trailer? Well thats riskier than not towing a trailer.
Perfect advice to work out the vehicle/caravan package together. I met a couple who got sucked into buying a fifth wheeler palace of a caravan that had the extending sides, marble bench tops etc at a caravan show. It’s bigger than an apartment and probably just as heavy. They then realised they needed a suitable tow vehicle and ended up springing for a massive yank dual axle “truck” as well. Ended up over $500k all in just to visit the creek in comfort. Their biggest problem was not being able to fit the gigantic setup in a regular camp site footprint.
I hope the people who wrote in, take your advice. As someone who spent nearly 2 decades in the Army bashing around some of the shittiest country, Australia has to offer the thought of what they are proposing to do scares me a little. The main reason for that is that I always plan for the worst. What happens if things go pear shape? How do you get yourself out of the shit? It will cost you a lot of money or worst. As for the canter solution, I can tell you from personal experience that it is well and truly up to the task. It will cope with most things that get thrown at it. We used them on a couple of deployments in the middle of the Northern Territory and went well. Not up to a Unimog standard, but what is? The only advice I would add is to ditch the caravan and get an off-road camping trailer. Firstly, it is easier to use and recover when things get wrong. It is also my experience the more space you have the more crap you take. I know it will be a little less comfortable but doing it rough is all part of the adventure.
@@robpinter5431 sure, on a hard surface. Dual rears are useless in proper offroad, such as in sand the rears cannot follow the same track of compressed sand the front wheels create. Same situation in mud. Also prone to getting logs/rocks jammed between the duals.
My friends are purchasing a 3.5 tonne caravan. They currently own an almost new VX 200 series LandCruiser. They are going to sell the LandCruiser, probably for as much as they paid for it or more. And buy either an Isuzu or Hino truck. The truck will be a dual cab and carry a miniature version of his metal fabrication workshop in the back. He is quite confident of being able to get work wherever he goes.
Back in the day, say mid to late nineties, my Great Auntie and her husband toured the entire Nation in a Subaru Forester towing an A-van. That was a terrific combo. A good driver could take that combo nearly anywhere.
The question is often asked, “How heavy a van could I tow with that?” Maybe the question should be, “How heavy a van could I stop and take evasive action with that?”
Good choice on the Canter, my neighbors have one and its a really impressive vehicle. Apart from the immense reliability, the parts are really available mostly anywhere- but be warned. They are pretty damn huge and when people say 'truck' they really mean it.
I’ve been towing for about 4 years with an Isuzu NPS crewcab. The old van was 3T fully loaded. The new van is probably 3.2T at normal tow weigh but has lots of water tanks so could be up to 3.5T at times. Some points about towing with a truck. On the plus side you will be legal - unlike more than 50% of other people towing big vans. The mass, and long wheelbase is stable. Exhaust brake is great, the truck is reliable and will outlast me. Fuel usage is probably the same as a 200 series Landcruiser. There is plenty of scope for storage in the truck and you can carry extra fuel and water if you need to. Trucks are great value for money. If its a Japanese truck parts are cheap and easily available, every country town has an Isuzu or Canter delivering furniture or landscape supplies. On the minus side its slow with only 155hp (I tell people it is half the horsepower of the Ranger it replaced but twice as heavy). The cab over design is less comfortable and you have to climb into the cab which could be an issues for the less mobile. You need some sort of suspension hitch because the hard rear suspension on the truck is hard on caravans. The interior is pretty basic and no frills if thats important to you. Something else to keep in mind is that some caravan manufacturers have a clause in their warrentee which either does not cover being towed by a truck or insists that you use a suspension hitch.
Thank Christ for good practical advice. We’ve been towing our 3T caravan with a 2013 Isuzu NPR200 since 2016 Picked the truck up for $30K with 70k on the clock. Set it up to carry a Jimny on the back, registered as 5.5T / 9.0T all up fully loaded the whole outfit weighs 8.3T Fuel usage about the same as a 200 series 22~25 L/100 Keep up the good work of telling the truth.
@@mohvanwah If 100 km/he isn’t fast enough I don’t know what speed is fast enough towing a van. Nothing wrong with a zero limit, the sooner it applies to all drivers the better.
How good is a 4x4 truck on highways? I’m thinking it would be far better than attempting to tow a big van and causing traffic chaos for the unfortunates stuck behind your Taj Mahal.
@@diracflux It wouldn't corner as well as a car - a bit tall. In my experience so long as you follow speed limits (and advisories) and you don't have 5 tons of sand behind you, you won't notice a thing. People will overtake you but you will overtake caravans (at least those being driven sensibly).
I've driven all the light trucks (Hino, Mitsubishi, Isuzu). I've found the Isuzu to be the most refined. All are fairly good but ideally have a sprung seat and the longer the wheelbase (up to a point) the better. All ride the best when loaded to about 75% their GVM.
For drivers/operators who wanted better ride quality, we used to fit parabolic springs and bypass shocks to the Isuzus I used to work on at the Isuzu dealership.
The Cantor could probably just be fitted with a nice tray accomodation solution and dispense with the whole caravan thing. Bit easier to reverse out of the narrow track you got yourself stuck in.
I'm currently doing a lap of Aus with my 2.6 t van and Pajero. Yes I have 180kg on the ball and and I'm close to the limits with GCM . I have upgraded suspension and brakes. I'm in a constant battle with my wife and kids with all the shit that gets added to the van adding to the weight while we travel. At one point our bikes got stolen and my first reaction was oh.... that's about 75kg saved!
Having been involved in the transport industry for the last 35 years and prior to that the military I have professionally driven everything from motorcycles to road trains, the thing that scares me most is the lack of skills evident in 50% of the caravan towing dingo piss creekions, I find it endlessly entertaining watching the comedy show of Mr being directed by Mrs into a tight space on a caravan park or even better the new 200 LC with the off road Taj Mahal behind trying to reverse on a sandy track. After a bit of study we chose a 70 Series Troopy to tow our off road shittoir, pretty much a ton of payload 180 lit of fuel as standard split between two tanks etc etc. Daughter and son in law with the 4 grand kids and a monster off road van tow with the Isuzu 4x4 155 truck, fabulous thing and will go anywhere. Keep up the good work
Hello John. Took your advice not to buy a Dunny on wheels to go walkabout..Bought a MU-X 2 years ago to travell all over the countryside .The suspension is made for outback roads and only 8 litres per 100 ks . My wife even brought the kitchen sink with her .We stayed in motels and cabins on caravan parks. In some places the Caravans are packed in like Sardines .The free overnight parks jampacked .Nearly every vehicle had a caravan behind it on the road..The money saved on diesel if I had been towing payed for half the accommodation cost and I'm still 80 ,000 dollars better off thanks to you..I am truly grateful for your kind wisdom .Yourself and Scotty Kilmer are Global Gurus. We are very fortunate to have you both to tell us about the good , the bad and the ugly..Thanks John..
I’ve seen a couple of options on the roads. Either mount a small caravan onto the truck bed and tow a car or tow a larger caravan and carry a small car on the truck bed.
John, thank you for another informative video that gets the point across. Will you ever be addressing fifth wheelers with respect to towing, dynamic stability, safety etc. With our ute based obsession in Australia, there seems to be some inherent safety advantages, and I would certainly appreciate your candid and honest appraisal. Cheers Ian
The problem is 5th wheelers are generally too large to be towed by dual cab utes. And they have this image of being a Seppo thing. I like the idea, but it does two things, one is to exclude the use of the tub for off the track camping, and two they are generally bigger than many van parks here in Aus can accommodate.
As a recently retired career truck driver (B-double fuel tankers for the last 15 years), I am very aware of axle limits, tare weights and gross weights having occasionally stretched the friendship at heavy vehicle weighbridges over the years. You made DPC sound so inviting John that I have gone out and bought a 79 series single cab ute (GVM 3.4 t) and a 2.6 t GVM off road caravan more for (hopefully) durability than any serious off road work. I have had it weighed by Queensland Transport when both are fully loaded for an extended trip and I am 160 kg under in the ute (individual axle weights all good) and 200 kg under in the van. The ute does have a steel bull bar and winch (which help to keep weight over the steer when towing) but my wife and I only weigh 140 kg together, the ute has a canvas canopy with no drawer system, fridge, second battery, second spare tyre etc. and just has a lockable aluminium gullwing toolbox for spares, compressor, puncture repair and tools with a small table, 2 chairs, a bag of firewood and not much else in the actual tray. It would be basically impossible to have a solid canopy with all the fancypants stuff that most people seem to need and then tow a 3.5 t van without a GVM upgrade and the 79 series has pretty much the highest GCM (6.9 t) apart from light trucks/American utes. I really believe that it is only a matter of time before someone high up realises that an easy way to obtain some quick revenue in order to help refill the depleted treasury coffers is to simply change the signs at heavy vehicle weighbridges to read "All Caravans Must Enter". Love your channel John even if you do give caravaners a hard time (as an ex truckie I am sure you can guess my feelings towards many of them). And as I have owned Subarus for the last 15 years, my son and daughter both own Subarus (manuals) and my daily driver is a 2018 Forester I am looking forward to a response from Subaru about your earlier discussion regarding their CVT's. Keep up the good work.
Having spent a bit of time driving off road in a Fuso truck, in my capacity as a rural firefighter, I can tell you it's a pretty capable off road machine; I'd rate it as good as a Nissan Patrol. A bit of a slug when it's loaded up with water and I'm in a hurry, but it's a f*cking truck! Also consider various Isuzu models which are decent, too. BTW, the single cab Fuso is shorter in wheelbase than the Patrol ute, by a size 10 boot or so.
I can but agree. I too am a rural firefighter and have driven light and heavy units in the worst terrain imaginable. And they aren't too bad to drive! Sure they don't have leather seats and a 12 speaker sound system and adaptive cruise control but as a tow vehicle they would be far better (and safer) than the LC etc. Oh, and John? Your advice is absolutely spot on, mate!
Iveco Daily 4x4 too. Earlier models were more truck like with a solid front axle, while the current model is IFS I believe. And that might place it as the ideal middle option between LC and Canter etc.
It’s great you all drove trucks with loads on rear but I don’t think someone towing a caravan will have much weight on back. The rear of truck will move around a lot without any weight. Also less weight great fuel economy but in this config could lead less weight = more danger
@@bushmagpie3312 The towball weight does count as weight over the rear axle, as I understand it. Hence the photos of utes bent in half because their gumby owners thought they could carry 1t in the tray and tow a 3.5t caravan at the same time...
Re your Mazda 929 anecdote, I remember back in roughly ‘82 or ‘83, Wheels magazine (back when it was good) drove a Camira and a Sigma to the Gulf and through the NT, about 3000km all up. Absolutely flogged these cars and drove them places that people wouldn’t take their Landcruisers today. And both cars did it just fine (even the Camira, surprisingly!). I often think of this when I look at some of the pricey stuff people are sold today because they buy with their emotions not their heads. There’s a video somewhere here on RUclips featuring it, a good nostalgic trip down Australian motoring journalism memory lane.
I always wonder how stressful for those 4x4 to tow such a big load, you gave a very good option using the truck and money left for a daily driver. Thumbs up.
Very good to hear this sort of uncommon sense being spoken. I tow a small caravan with a venerable 120 series Prado, and when I say "small", I mean it - the caravan weighs about 1200kg fully loaded! I think the towball weight is about 75kg. It's all we need, and we enjoy getting out and about with it. While it's called an "off-road" variant, I wouldn't consider it a serious off-roader. But we don't do hairy-chested off-roading anyway (too old for that), just quite a few dirt roads and it's fine for that. We are always astounded at the average size of caravans we see on our travels - it's quite rare to see one as small as ours. And of course a small caravan means better fuel consumption - unless we have a big headwind, the Prado can usually return litres/100km figures in the 12s or 13s. Not sure if we could get to DP Creek with our setup, but we'll live with that! :-)
Thanks for the detailed and concise description of the constraints of towing a heavy caravan. We currently tow a caravan which is very close to 2700 kg when it is fully laden with all the essentials like 200 litres of water and a 100 litres of booze, plus food of course with a 2019 200 series LC and I would absolutely agree that this is marginal at best. For our next combination I think a fifth wheel with a light 4x4 truck will certainly be a better option, I already have a heavy vehicle licence so it will just be a matter of getting the better half’s licence upgraded which as you note is not that difficult.
Nice stuff John :) My $0.02 worth, growing up we spent 10 years living in a caravan's moving round etc, the first van was a 12' camper trailer able to be towed by a HQ Holden, the next was a 23' Millard weighing who knows how much that we had to have towed to each new place by others because the HQ wasn't up to it, Interesting times. Anyway if you want to have the Taj Mahal at Dingo Piss Creek stay in the hotel up the road. If you want to take a van buy a little off-road tear drop that weighs
I agree wholeheartedly with your assessment. Unfortunately Iveco, one of the main contenders for an alternative, still hasn't released it's latest Daily. Nobody knows when they will make an appearance (John, maybe you have a contact that knows?) Second hand Dailys are rare. It really is an arms race with these ridiculous "off road" vans. Try navigating around tight bends or coming face to face with another massive rig on a sandy track. I've seen it, sat back up the track a little way, got out a cold one and watched the circus.
The new Ford Ranger wildtrak has nearly 600kg payload when it is towing a 3500kg and the tow bar is already included so the V6TD is a far better option so there is that, not to mention it comes with a air filter which actually prevents dust from entering the intake.
Great advice as always, Mr. Cadogan, and your riveting disposition makes the vehicle particulars entertaining. Thank You and my compliments to Dunning and Kruger.
Most people aren't all for adventure trying to drag trailers and vans into the most stupidest places so if people are taking vans off road, not dirt roads, full off roads, they are stupid. These a thing that's called a tow ball just take it off if you're going to do anything serious. Love the work John
Twenty or so years ago, I suggested to my late Father that he purchased a Toyota Dyna to tow his caravan around Australia with. He scoffed at the time. He first purchased a Falcon and then "upgraded" to a gas gulping Navara. It took him some time but he eventually conceded that he should have followed my advice. It's worth noting that he was only towing an eighteen foot van.
This is all fantastic but there are some serious shortcomings for the Fuso without even mentioning reliability and warranty problems. Suspension: hit a pothole or a speed bump and the factory suspension seat could almost launch you into space. For the passenger, at least they won’t need a chiropractor because they will no longer have a spine after it becomes fused to the engine cover. Tyres: factory they come with road tyres but if you’re planing on doing any dirt they MUST be charged. We did one trip with them and let’s just say we felt a lot better emptying our wallets to fit super singles and 37’s two days later after we got out of the mud. Engine: the 3L 4 cylinder 4p10 makes about the same power as my motorbike and they say it can move 10 tons!!! Now I don’t mind going slow but this thing gets overtaken by road trains on flat ground! Up hills… don’t worry about a bull bar! I’m more scared of getting hit by kangaroos rather than me hitting them. Cabin noise: I won’t even mention the factory two speaker stereo system because you simply can’t hear it over the road and engine noise, add 37” mud terrain tyres and you might as well be in a separate vehicle than the passenger So once you add to the purchase price a custom tray, parabolic suspension kit, full ecu remapping, dyno tune, sound deadening for the cabin, upgraded seats, upgraded stereo, full set of rims and tyres and let’s not forget it’s all got to be engineered. Let’s just say that if you purchased a Landcruiser Sahara instead you would still have enough change to get a full GVM upgrade done as well. But despite all its downfalls it is still an absolute weapon, It gets a crowd around it just filling up fuel and I wouldn’t change it for anything. Except for maybe a Isuzu…
I lived full time in my Bushtracker caravan for 11 years. Towing at the upper limit of my vehicle's rating was not much fun. Just sold my caravan and bought a house, glad to be out of that fat towing trap. Every time I got back on the road it was paranoia. I concur with what John says here, Landcruisers and utes are just not big enough to have margins of safety. A truck for heavy towing is the most sensible option. (BTW I have been all over the country, and never once even got tempted to go to Dingo Piss Creek, saw the turn off and just kept on going by!). The outback sux, never again.
A few years I was asked for my thoughts on what vehicle we needed at work for moving some equipment around and I said a 4wd Fuso Canter or similar because drill rods are long and heavy, but they went with ute and trailer option. I laughed when you revealed one you prepared earlier, I wonder if this was out a few years ago they would have listened to another engineer over a scientist.
You make a good point John, on specs. The downside is, if you buy a truck, you get a truck. Slow, loud, rough ride and generally uncomfortable. Chalk and cheese in ride comfort and nvh, imo.
Fun fact: if you get yourself a propper truck - like I dif - then you do not need to tow a trailer anymore (except if you have fun by towing and you now do tow for the fun of it). It all fits into the truck whatever you had in mind to put into or onto the trailer. You do not even need a roof rack. Just go for it.
Best Dingo Piss Creek rig I have seen is an Isuzu N Series RV (house on back of truck and not towing it) towing a tandem trailer with a Suzuki Jimny on it. Seems way smarter than buying a mega priced Landcruiser or Ranger and a huge caravan.
If your a Toyota fan the 70 series Troop carrier GLX has a Curb of 2325kg and a GVM of 3330 giving a load of 975kg. The GCM is 6800kg. So at GVM it can legally tow 3470KG. At 10% ball load it can still carry 600kg+. The Duel cab has similar specs. Short of a 4X4 truck and most of them are limited if a derated 4500kg GVM (car licence) because of a high curb weight or a 150k+ US 2500 size ute the 70 series is the most capable.
I have a new Hilux with some essential extra outback gear (bar, suspension that lasts, decent 17inch AT tyres, water, food, recovery gear, first aid, toolbox, few spares, winch) and after a weigh in I have 550kg to fit the ‘cook’ and towball mass of 270kg. I tow an Australian Off Road Van 2.4t well past DPCreek many times, so reasonable safe outback towing can be done easily by just keeping under the mass limits.
Oh John. So so spot on with this video. Just had the pleasure of visiting 2 caravan parks on the NSW north coast. Stayed in a cabin and watched the parade of LC200s towing taj mahals and couldnt help but wonder why there's a tendency to such excess. OTH saw an elderly couple with a light, modern, fully equipped van with plenty of ground clearance being towed by a Falcon sedan that would be clearly satisfactory for most people's needs. And let's face it, most people who buy these huge "rigs" are cashed up retired baby boomers......not that there's anything wrong with being a "CURBB".
I am towing with a Falcon XR6 and it's too low. it's a great car on good roads, but it is disappointing for towing. RWD is not good reversing on wet grass up hill. (My front yard). I have ordered a Pajero Sport and will stick with the Avan camper.
Respectfully, I'd counsel against upgrading a road caravan towards "4wd spec". I'm no expert in caravan construction so I don't have a list of differences, but if I were a betting man the structure above the top step might be better made in an offroad type than a standard caravan. A sensible person will realise that trips along the Gibb River Road or the Peninsula Development Road (to Cape York) are not to be taken frivolously. But the are lots of places people might find themselves going to where the road is vastly worse than could be reasonably expected, for example the Windorah to Birdsville road. Buying an "off road" spec up front gets you (hopefully) superior R&D and it certainly gets you a functional warranty, as you are operating within its design envelope. 150km in to the harshest road most people could imagine is no place to be wondering if one had upgraded his road spec acoustically transparent shiteau enough to actually make it.. I did that road in 2019 on the way to the Big Red Bash. One casualty was a caravan that had sheared its U bolts and rotated 45degrees on the axle. No doubt an exciting time followed by an expensive tilt tray ride into Birdsville!
The Fuso / Isuzu / Hino aren’t de-rated to register at 4500KG GVM John. They just fit a supplementary plate showing 4500 KG GVM. Nothing mechanical is done. Just registration. And if you do that and fit a body you can be at negative payload. Worse than a 200 or 300 wagon for payload.
A big factor with a light truck is 0% BAC. Some jurisdictions take this as also not having the keys in your possession. A bit hard when you want to have a relaxing vino or ale at the end of the day. No nipping down to the local for a social couple of mid strength drinks. A truck is zero alcohol.
Wow it's expensive to own a caravan + tow vehicle. I used to throw a tent and some camping gear in the back of a Suzuki Sierra and go walkabout (drive about?) for weeks. Tiffany loved the great outdoors a the time and it was as cheap as chips. Sometimes I'd even stay at a motel if it had a pool, how's that for luxury! Ah, we try to get away from it all and end up taking it all with us.
like the answer here my personal preference is the Isuzu NPS as unlike the Fuso it has low range and having driven it in some very inshospiable places just put a motorhome on that and if you want tow a small vehicle with a boat on top for all other little excursions. Fuel consuption on this configuration is about 14l/00 anyway
in the 70'sand 80's i towed a double horse float with two large horses most weekends. at that time the best vehicle i could get in nz was a ford falcon 500. it did the job and as horses need to be towed with consideration, i never felt out of control. but using your logic i must have been grossly over loaded. a friend had an old chrysler ambulance which seemed the perfect tow vehicle. plus he could sleep in it. much more comfortable than sweeping out the turds and sleeping in the float lol.
The other thing you will find with the 4wd trucks IS, many of them come with things likeSerious ground clearance, Realy big wheels, diff locks and air suspended seats and other stuff, that you will pay a lot of extra money to have on any of the light vehicle 4wds.
We tow a 2.6t ATM van with a discovery. For the reasons mentioned, we chose the extra payload capacity of the discovery over the LC, Also it was a better drive for our needs, much more fuel efficient and we choose to not go offroading. Also the LC was, and still is more expensive. Even though the rig works well, and has agood margin of conservatism , I would not want to tow much more. Note reliability has been good too so far.
Think the D4 and D5 are a superior tow vehicle than the LC200s. Unfortunately however they do suffer from the dual problem of greater chance of reliability issues plus a poor dealer network in remote areas.
It's crazy that 3.5t or even 4.5t is considered towing heavy in AUS. One of the reasons that I sold my Ram was that it was right at the top of the tow rating with a 14,000 lb/6.35t trailer.
I realised after a few 4WD trips with the 900kg Kimberly camper, and then the 2,885kg Mission Xtrail van, that we needed to go back to a 1,600kg 1/2 way point so that we could still be able to pull the van through Mud and Sand as well as sleep in comfort. I notice that no-one mentions a Jeep ? We have a Vista RV, also a Trak Tvan etc. You have to live outdoors and not in your van, but is that not the point.
Hey John great clip,yeah we went to Birdsville in our 17 foot on road van which handles off road fine which we drive to conditions, ppl have stupid ideas on vans and think I need a huge off road van for Australia.thx John keep it up.
Scotty Kilmer is saying in his latest video not to leave OBCD readers plugged in all the time. Down dingo piss creek nearly everyone has a Scanguage to read Auto temps and they leave it in all the time. Your opinion. Those Canters ( and same size Isuzus) are used as mid sized RFS fire trucks, and they drive not unlike a car and can go pretty much anywhere. Even when fully loaded and on their weight limits. As they are all the time with near two tons of water as well as all the other gear.
For a light truck, I'd suggest looking at a HINO. 4 wheel disk brakes; 6 speed transmission; lots of electronic safety stuff/stability control. Seats are pretty average, and you'll need to convert the dual rear wheels to singles, but they are a pretty good unit. HINO is owned by Toyota BTW. If you are thinking of a IVECO Daily 4x4, do yourself a favour and erase that thought. Great off road while they are working. But I know 2 friends who bought them and they are not all that enamoured with them. Brakes are not quite up to it; transmission issues; electrical issues. Do a Google and you'll have hours of entertaining reading, especially if you come across the website from 'Going Bush'...
2.7T is not to take off road … imagine the patrol towing that on the canning stock. You’d use 25L for 100kms. For light dirt roads you should consider the RAM 2500 given that you already purchased the elephant van
I'd avoid ram. They're the anti-christ to deal with from a consumer complaint department. (This is my north American experience talking, your experience may vary). I personally would go with GM (Holden's parent). On the sealed road my GM 1500 will tow 2.7 tons with ease. On dirt trails, I wouldn't take that much weight behind anything that you couldn't travel in a AWD sedan/soccer Mom SUV. Sure you can physically do it... But it wouldn't be enjoyable.
@@No0ne31 Actually, here in Oz we have the Ram, (most popular in that category), and the GM Silverado, and from mid next year, the F-150 as well. So there are options in that category. They all claim to have 4.5 tonne towing capacity. Whether they are as reliable as an Isuzu or Hino truck is debatable. But they would probably be more comfortable, less bouncing when sitting on top of the front axle.
I work for transport for nsw and all our trucks be it 4wd or not have a park on the back that say max tow rating with a 50mm ball is 2229 you need to go to 70mm ball to be able to tow 3.5 ton. And that is for hino, fuso, iveco and isuzu. Any of them fitted with a conventional tow bar and 50mm ball.
Yep go the truck with a flat tray and a slide on camper body with its own supports built on so. Less rego, no towing, if the fabricator is any good will look tough as nails, will be better on fuel and its a multi use vehicle. Also those canters have pretty aweome clearance underneath too so save on the lift kit and crap as well.
Why wouldn't you put the van without the wheels and suspension straight onto the chassis of the truck. Or get a van bult on to the truck with a walk through from the cab.
Isuzu, Hino, Iveco etc. also provide proper 4WD truck options. In terms of considering the package prior to purchase, why not do a single package and throw the caravan on the back as a camper / motorhome. That way, you have all the creature comforts and nothing to tow. So apart from additional height limitations, you can seriously go bush.
Back in the day, I used my Mitsubishi Magna AWD to tow a light trailer with windup canvas sides. A shovel and portable toilet seat, battery-powered shower. 20 litre bucket. I thought it was pointless to be buying something that I would only use on a 2-3 week holiday every year, cluttering up my property, so I hired the trailer instead.
Another great art piece. So with your opening speech your transitioning to bat for other side? John check the LC300 roof loading it’s 75kg and rack weighs 30kg doesn’t leave much left. Compare the Patrol to land cruiser GCM/GVM, Add bullbar and tow bar plus normal family of 4. Just buy a patrol and spend money on fuel. The payload is a lot better. I don’t agree with truck idea as they are uncomfortable and agricultural. You may end up with back pain as they aren’t built for comfort just for commercial use. Look at the design all the weight is over front wheels so any bouncing with trailer and rear end becomes unstable. A lot of trucks don’t have sway control,traction aids, trailer sway mitigation and the advanced driver aids for inexperienced towing people. Only long distance is truck is semi. Just lift the right foot and take your time, rest every 2hrs and stay alert. Be mindful of your surroundings. Drive alert. Pick vehicle which stable and has a greater mass than caravan but is well balanced, large SUV. We bought our off-road van (not full off-road) for corrugated roads as insurance wouldn’t cover an on road van on dirt roads. Cruisemaster do offer an upgrade fully engineered upgrade but insurance needs to looked into for coverage. We also live in the land on other side of the brick wall (WA).
Just looking at my local DPC option about 90mins drive away. I can “glamp” with their onsite set-ups, bed made, water on, bbq ready, self-contained for $152.50 a night (2 night minimum). My back of the envelope calculations show I can afford more than 650 x 2 night trips (over 1300 nights away) and still be ahead on dollars. I’ve not had to tow a thing so I’ve saved a fortune on fuel and taken nothing more than the usual road risk when driving. Don’t have to make a fool of myself trying to park the Taj Mahal and argue with the missus over whether I’m lined up right or not. And don’t have to cart my own effluent home with me afterwards. If that’s a pretty standard price for most “glamps” at most DPC sites, why bother with the hassle? Surely you could cover most of Oz with nothing more than a Toyota Corolla or Hyundai i30.
At the end of your 1300 nights you would still have a 2nd hand Taj Mahal worth probably 1/2 what you paid for it, so it's not a total loss. We do see your point though.
Very limited number of chalet style accommodation around compared to campsites. I’ve discovered Camplify- still need the car to tow it but same sort of maths versus actually buying a van.
I went half way, skipped the Landcruiser/Patrol options, just not up to the task. Our plans involve more than just a 1 year big lap, we intend to hit the road and live in the Aluminium Shitbox, as some would like to call it, though ours is going to be a fibreglass model, .... we intend to be on the road permanently for as long as 10 years after I retire. We currently have a 3.2t ATM van, that is 11 years old. We will be building a new van to run at approx 4t ATM, rated to 4.5t, we have bought a second hand Chev 2500HD, capable in NB2 rego if towing 6.8t on pintle hook or 70mm ball with air brakes, or 4.5t on a DO45 hitch electric brakes. Our safety margin at 4t is like a landcruiser towing 2t. NB1 or NB2, no real issue, but depends on the payload we want in the truck, will be going back to NB2, as we want to kit the truck for occasional nights away from the van, ie Fraser Is, Kakadu, Madigan Track, etc. Even these, or the Mitsy Canters, Izuzu NPR300s, as car rego can all have the same payload issues, if regod as a LR NB2 truck, the issues are not so great. Chev has a GCM of something like 11t, I know of few with 1million kms having spent their lives towing 5th wheel horse floats at these GCMs. We do not even know the 3.2t van is on behind the pickup, in fact the mirrors are only there to know when to pull back in front of the LCs and Patrols towing their 3t wobble boxes and to check that the van is still attached. My 2012 2500HD was 10k cheaper than any chopped LC200 of similar age and kms. And it came with a 2.4m long Metalink canopy as a bonus. Unfortunately, the 4x4 Canters and Izuzus are very uncomfortable as standard, and much too tall to access for those with any disability, the main reason I had to exclude them from my assessment, as my wife has very bad knees and lower back issues, and is years from the docs doing knee replacements. I appreciate that they are great trucks, but to fix the suspension, go to Single Rear Wheels, sound deaden them, put decent seats in them, costs much of that 40k saving John mentions over a LC. Not bagging them one bit, but being extremely realistic. They are still a truck. The Yank tanks, and I do not care what brand of 2500/250 or 3500/350 you buy, are built as trucks, but drive much more like a car, with power and economy to boot. If you did not need 4x4, a 2WD truck could be a good option, as they are lower and ride somewhat better without the modifications. I accept that a new Yank tank is not cheap, but then neither is a Sahara with a dual cab chop, with engine & tranny mods to make it half suitable for towing 3.5t. In fact I know a bloke who recently spent 220k on a Late model LC200, chop, engine & tranny mods. A client of mine just bought a new F250 upper spec for 205k, hmmmmmmmmmm If only most would buy a van suitable to the tug they own, rather than towing too big a shit box with their under rated tow tug.
Here in ‘Murica, this issue is a nonissue. One-ton trucks with GVWRs of around 14,000 pounds are as common as quarter-ton trucks seem to be in Shitsville.
With the right truck and bed, Marion and Ian could tow their new off road van to Dingo Piss Creek as well as load up a Kia Picanto or similar on the back of the truck and have economical transport when they arrive at DPC for those cosy evening dinners.
We had a GXL Prado with the usual bullshit bull bar. Our van is 2500kg ATM, which matched the capacity of the Prado. All the other numbers were in spec and backed up by weigh bridge checks. But we were right on the knocker. So we considered ripping of the bullbar and removing those stupid back child seats (70kg thank you). Anyway we didn't go that way. Instead we bought a latter model GX. No back seats, no bullbar, 3000kg capacity. More cargo capacity than a 200 series from memory and 150 litres of fuel. Well within limits now. We despeced to get a better spec. And saved money.
Hoo Ray! Some Bloody common sense at last in this department. I have absolutely no plans to tow a home behind me, but I do carry some crap (plus the odd bit of towing a trailer) so I went to an American based 4wd just for the extra room, the weight capabilities (STOCK!) & of course comfort. I have never understood the reasons of all the hugely expensive 4wds then having to do GVM upgrades still to end up with no room & being worried about putting in an extra box of beer ! I hope many take note of your advice !! Cheers!
What about a Ineos Grenadier with expected 900 to 1000 payload? GCM 7000kg. Expected delivery is 2023 so close for the May 2023 delivery of caravan? Cost $85500 plus LCT, gov costs.....etc Good idea about the truck but l suspect an older couple would struggle manuvouring a truck with caravan off-road. The caravan is brought/ordered so this is probably the best option l believe for their situation as the vehicle is under 5 metres in length
Most vans are quite easy to upgrade, especially if it's just going to handle some dirt roads. Change the axle, drums and suspension, the rest of the frame should be fine for most vans as long as you have a bit of mechanical sympathy when towing off road. There are a few off the shelf suspension upgrades for vans as well so they can be converted to Indepenant coil with shock etc, Cruisemaster is one brand that offers kits.
In a previous life. We went with an LX 470 with sway bars towing a 19ft 2 axle 2.5t van. Both vehicle and van had adjustable suspension, very handy. The LX was an amazing vehicle. But all was well for 2.5 years when on one trip driving into a camp site (that we had been going to for over 10 years), over confidence, and a badly adjusted electric brake setting saw the fully laden van push the LX down the small incline and jackknifed. Major damage to both at walking pace...Van sold LX repaired and sold, and back to a Prado and tent😁. Much easier cheaper and less stress. People please realise that manouvering a rig like that around our roads is extremely stressful, and potentially very risky. Not to mention the costs involved! Outrageous to own a rig like that. Insurances, maintenance fuel...Yep big is not always better.
Hi John, loves your straight no BS approach to this massive problem you with your experience, engineering expertise is highlighting but fallen on death ears.. My journey started with tent first time with my young boys under 7 before covid started in jan 2020, bought a 6 by 4 trailer so can bring more staff etc. On the 2nd tenting exp, wife said no more half day preparing and loading of car and trailer , then unpack again with me pegging for hours to secure the tent only to be blown down by 50km gale force wind.. looked at all sorts of camper to 15ft caravan in sydney, settled on a 2nd hand jayco Eagle touring model with ATM 1.35t. Like what you pt out in the video, i just didnt feel right to tow 2T van when my 2015 2.2l diesel is rated at 2T, 200 on the down load. Many laughed at my query on certain van site that i should get a 4x4 instead.. idiot they are as i have Gvm of 2.9T, kerb weight of 2.2t, which give me 700kg payload when none of d max , hilux etc can go any where near that.. had storage isnt a problem, probably would have gone for 15ft full van with 2T ATM, but i told my wife its silly to force buy and not able to use it right away if we need to pay for a storage spot else where.. i have got TBW scale , caravan scale to ensure i have done my best not to overload both the car and the camper, so far my most recent year end 12 night trip fully loaded , the car still have 200kg to spare on cars GVM. towed beautifully from sydney to lake conjola stress free. It is so frightening to see 4wd towing 20ft more bigger full caravans going 100km or more on the highway care free, many even ignored the van was swaying none stop mildly and kept on speeding. I liked your truck idea and the cool factor 😎 plus its true towing capacity is something worth to think about especially if a normal car license can be used..
Hi Dave..wholeheartedly agree with your 5 especially no 3 as the same driver winning gets boring ,Why don't they bring in either weight or horse power penalties foe winners like a few other classes of racing does.Might help even the field out.
Sell it. Unlike cars, trucks (particularly 4x4 small ones) tend to have excellent resale value because they’ll last forever. 200,000 km in a truck means it’s only just worn in.
It seems to me that everyone comes at this from the wrong direction - they want to take their block of flats with them wherever they go. My wife and I (both in our late 60s at the time) decided we wanted to do the big lap - many dingo piss creeks visited - back in 2016. I didn’t want to tow. We had spent decades in various camping set ups so knew what we wanted. We also didn’t want to spend a fortune on a depreciating asset. The prime consideration was to keep our set up as light as possible. Our first trial was a trip through the Pilbara with a tent and while we enjoyed it, we concluded that the ground was too hard to drive in the 27 tent pegs needed for a safe, weather proof campsite. So we considered a roof top tent but it took just one climb up the ladder at a distributors shop to convince my wife that it wasn’t an option. So we made the decision to tow. So Mr Google was fired up and we found a trailer tent (no trailer) from a distributor on the Gold Coast and had a local trailer builder build a trailer to our specs and bolt the tent on. The all up weight of the trailer, tent, water in jerry cans and all the tools and stuff needed to set up camp came to 400 Kgm. It was minimalist but very comfortable. We have added stuff as we have travelled but have managed to keep the trailer weight comfortably below 500 kgm. We have now covered 80,000 kms with no dramas. That includes a trip down the Tanami Road to Wolf Creek Meteorite Crater and parts of the Gibb River Road and a number of other less than perfect unsealed roads. I guess what I am saying is why this talk about heavy caravans and trucks to tow them. Totally unnecessary. The first year’s depreciation on either the vehicle or the caravan is way more than the cost of my little camper. Your comment about upwelling of caravans and camper trailers is right on point.
I watched some towing videos on stability and came to the conclusion that if the heavy caravans were dog trailers instead of pig trailer many of the stability problems wouldn't be an issue. Why are we not using more dog trailers? I know it would cost more but surely it would mean you could have a much reduced tow ball down force and you could have a trailer heavier than the tow vehicle and still be safe.
I've been looking at caravans and am limited by my tow vehicle's weight restrictions 2000kg and 100kg ball weight. That means looking at smaller lighter vans and when they are asking $54,000 for a 14 foot van with nothing special added I just shelved the entire idea.
My parents are currently touring Australia. Purchased a luxury off road van weighing 3 ton but also a FG Fuso 4x4 wide body crew cab truck to tow it. With a GVM of 6500kg and GCM of 10000kg, its a easy tow. Dad specced the truck for remote travel. Canopy on rear with extensive secure shelving, draws,etc , extra tyres on rims, tools, spares, upgraded air ride ISSI seating, front and read winches,etc. Designed for both convenience and independence. Dad has dedicated his career, 50 years, to delivering fuel to the most remote communities and stations in Australia, so knows exactly what is required of a vehicle. Haven't seen them for six months but inundated daily with updates.👍👍🇭🇲
At least you’ll know he’s travelling VERY VERY slowly
Your dad could go into business setting up the perfect rig for everyone and get it right first time..
very nice !
@@dilligaf2818 cannot tell some people. So what if zero BAC, 100k limit for towing anyway, which I bet he does not realise, except in QLD, many states have annual roadworthies on cars, in most cases LR are not subjected to weighins, and who cares, if you are legal, and most towing with other tugs are not, QLD police have proven that recently, 90% over weight, the reason most don't is because they belong to either the Toyota or Nissan beard stroking crowd. LOL
@@lastknownlocation8760 so?
Sounds like a tow job for a 4wd 4.5t truck with a soft hitch. Edited to add that we were thinking the same thing. The soft hitch is so the truck doesn't shake the caravan to pieces.
You’ll need it to be more than 4500 kg if you want to carry anyone or anything
@@lastknownlocation8760 According to the Iveco Australia website, the 50C18 Single Cab Euro VI has a GVM of 4495kg and a GCM of 7995kg. 7995kg-4495kg = 3500kg. So 3500kg is the maximum it could tow but you could definitely still put people and stuff into the truck. The caravan being asked about is 2700kg. Definitely well within towing capacity. Plus the lovely option of being able to have people and a bunch of stuff on the truck. If someone had their heart set on a 3500kg caravan, they could get a 5th wheeler and tow that with a 4495kg truck. Am a horse person and very keen on GVMs and GCMs.
John, you ask how difficult it was to arrive at a bearable combination. I ended up purchasing a Mitsubishi Triton GSR and a 2.5 tonne (GTM) caravan. I'm not a motor vehicle technical type person but my entire working career of 46+ years has been as an analyst so working out all the masses, limits and safety parameters is something that I ought to have been able to tackle; it required a lot of research and fact-checking, and it was a nightmare, a long nightmare at that. There is a plethora of misinformation out there on the interwebs, and a lot of information that simply does not apply in Australia.
It was difficult to sort through what was correct and what was not and then to cross reference it against legislation and various road rule summaries to ensure both safety and legality. It took revision after revision to get the calculations right, and in the end I solved the entire problem by creating a spreadsheet with provision for six different weight distribution scenarios based on the actual weight of absolutely everything being carried, and ensuring that the Triton, when loaded, was at least 200kg heavier than the fully laden caravan would ever be. I came away thinking that this is definitely not something the average Joe Public would even contemplate, let alone actually do and succeed at. I expect that there are a lot of dangerously overloaded rigs out there.
Regards, a bearded, cellulite hot-pants dream-living beard-stroker now touring Shitsville and Dingo Piss Creek in an acoustically transparent aluminium shitoire.
PS: As an analyst, recently retired, I was paid well north of six figures a year just for stroking my beard and occasionally muttering "Hmmm! Hmm! Ahhh!" so beard-stroking can't be all that bad.
So very very many are overloaded and many dangerously so.
I would not want to be towing 2.5 ton with a triton ute, nor any of the crop of desperately over rated utes. I wouldnt even do it with my landcruiser. It just doesnt work, emergency braking on a bend. I know this because ive done it. Towing 1.8 tons at night avoiding wildlife at night. Good luck and drive accordingly.
@@philipmann9548 works fine for me and about a million others. Probably need to harden up a bit!
@@uareslick thanks for your input. No its not about hardening up a bit. Its about being sensible. It works fine until something goes awry.
@@philipmann9548 It's legal and within specs, 2.5t is modest in comparison to what so many other people tow, so many people towing well over 3.2t with a fully loaded ute. Anything you do comes with risk, towing an empty trailer? Well thats riskier than not towing a trailer.
Perfect advice to work out the vehicle/caravan package together. I met a couple who got sucked into buying a fifth wheeler palace of a caravan that had the extending sides, marble bench tops etc at a caravan show. It’s bigger than an apartment and probably just as heavy. They then realised they needed a suitable tow vehicle and ended up springing for a massive yank dual axle “truck” as well. Ended up over $500k all in just to visit the creek in comfort. Their biggest problem was not being able to fit the gigantic setup in a regular camp site footprint.
This shit happens when people have more money than brains.
How does the cost improve the view, the nature or the safety ?
@@adelarsen9776 Exactly. They just end up in a trailer park every evening, crammed together with a bunch of drunk bogans.
I hope the people who wrote in, take your advice. As someone who spent nearly 2 decades in the Army bashing around some of the shittiest country, Australia has to offer the thought of what they are proposing to do scares me a little. The main reason for that is that I always plan for the worst. What happens if things go pear shape? How do you get yourself out of the shit? It will cost you a lot of money or worst.
As for the canter solution, I can tell you from personal experience that it is well and truly up to the task. It will cope with most things that get thrown at it. We used them on a couple of deployments in the middle of the Northern Territory and went well. Not up to a Unimog standard, but what is?
The only advice I would add is to ditch the caravan and get an off-road camping trailer. Firstly, it is easier to use and recover when things get wrong. It is also my experience the more space you have the more crap you take. I know it will be a little less comfortable but doing it rough is all part of the adventure.
Agreed with the Canter option, and it has dual rear wheels for more traction than a 4x4.
@@robpinter5431 sure, on a hard surface. Dual rears are useless in proper offroad, such as in sand the rears cannot follow the same track of compressed sand the front wheels create. Same situation in mud. Also prone to getting logs/rocks jammed between the duals.
My friends are purchasing a 3.5 tonne caravan.
They currently own an almost new VX 200 series LandCruiser.
They are going to sell the LandCruiser, probably for as much as they paid for it or more. And buy either an Isuzu or Hino truck.
The truck will be a dual cab and carry a miniature version of his metal fabrication workshop in the back.
He is quite confident of being able to get work wherever he goes.
Back in the day, say mid to late nineties, my Great
Auntie and her husband toured the entire Nation in a Subaru Forester towing an A-van. That was a terrific combo. A good driver could take that combo nearly anywhere.
The question is often asked, “How heavy a van could I tow with that?” Maybe the question should be, “How heavy a van could I stop and take evasive action with that?”
Good choice on the Canter, my neighbors have one and its a really impressive vehicle. Apart from the immense reliability, the parts are really available mostly anywhere- but be warned. They are pretty damn huge and when people say 'truck' they really mean it.
I’ve been towing for about 4 years with an Isuzu NPS crewcab. The old van was 3T fully loaded. The new van is probably 3.2T at normal tow weigh but has lots of water tanks so could be up to 3.5T at times.
Some points about towing with a truck. On the plus side you will be legal - unlike more than 50% of other people towing big vans. The mass, and long wheelbase is stable. Exhaust brake is great, the truck is reliable and will outlast me. Fuel usage is probably the same as a 200 series Landcruiser. There is plenty of scope for storage in the truck and you can carry extra fuel and water if you need to. Trucks are great value for money. If its a Japanese truck parts are cheap and easily available, every country town has an Isuzu or Canter delivering furniture or landscape supplies.
On the minus side its slow with only 155hp (I tell people it is half the horsepower of the Ranger it replaced but twice as heavy). The cab over design is less comfortable and you have to climb into the cab which could be an issues for the less mobile. You need some sort of suspension hitch because the hard rear suspension on the truck is hard on caravans. The interior is pretty basic and no frills if thats important to you.
Something else to keep in mind is that some caravan manufacturers have a clause in their warrentee which either does not cover being towed by a truck or insists that you use a suspension hitch.
Thank Christ for good practical advice.
We’ve been towing our 3T caravan with a 2013 Isuzu NPR200 since 2016
Picked the truck up for $30K with 70k on the clock.
Set it up to carry a Jimny on the back, registered as 5.5T / 9.0T all up fully loaded the whole outfit weighs 8.3T
Fuel usage about the same as a 200 series 22~25 L/100
Keep up the good work of telling the truth.
@@mohvanwah
If 100 km/he isn’t fast enough I don’t know what speed is fast enough towing a van.
Nothing wrong with a zero limit, the sooner it applies to all drivers the better.
@@mohvanwah Maybe in NSW
Better idea: Put a camper body on the 4x4 truck. Easier to reverse! Trucks can also take a lot of shit cars cannot.
You say that like it's a good thing. Less is more.
Exactly 👍a Unimog does the trick
How good is a 4x4 truck on highways? I’m thinking it would be far better than attempting to tow a big van and causing traffic chaos for the unfortunates stuck behind your Taj Mahal.
@@diracflux It wouldn't corner as well as a car - a bit tall. In my experience so long as you follow speed limits (and advisories) and you don't have 5 tons of sand behind you, you won't notice a thing. People will overtake you but you will overtake caravans (at least those being driven sensibly).
I've driven all the light trucks (Hino, Mitsubishi, Isuzu). I've found the Isuzu to be the most refined. All are fairly good but ideally have a sprung seat and the longer the wheelbase (up to a point) the better. All ride the best when loaded to about 75% their GVM.
If you don't want a manual, get the Hino. They have a decent Auto whereas the Canter/Isuzu would need a bit of getting used to (patience).
For drivers/operators who wanted better ride quality, we used to fit parabolic springs and bypass shocks to the Isuzus I used to work on at the Isuzu dealership.
The Cantor could probably just be fitted with a nice tray accomodation solution and dispense with the whole caravan thing. Bit easier to reverse out of the narrow track you got yourself stuck in.
And only one rego to pay
I'm currently doing a lap of Aus with my 2.6 t van and Pajero. Yes I have 180kg on the ball and and I'm close to the limits with GCM . I have upgraded suspension and brakes. I'm in a constant battle with my wife and kids with all the shit that gets added to the van adding to the weight while we travel. At one point our bikes got stolen and my first reaction was oh.... that's about 75kg saved!
Having been involved in the transport industry for the last 35 years and prior to that the military I have professionally driven everything from motorcycles to road trains, the thing that scares me most is the lack of skills evident in 50% of the caravan towing dingo piss creekions, I find it endlessly entertaining watching the comedy show of Mr being directed by Mrs into a tight space on a caravan park or even better the new 200 LC with the off road Taj Mahal behind trying to reverse on a sandy track.
After a bit of study we chose a 70 Series Troopy to tow our off road shittoir, pretty much a ton of payload 180 lit of fuel as standard split between two tanks etc etc. Daughter and son in law with the 4 grand kids and a monster off road van tow with the Isuzu 4x4 155 truck, fabulous thing and will go anywhere.
Keep up the good work
Hello John. Took your advice not to buy a Dunny on wheels to go walkabout..Bought a MU-X 2 years ago to travell all over the countryside .The suspension is made for outback roads and only 8 litres per 100 ks . My wife even brought the kitchen sink with her .We stayed in motels and cabins on caravan parks. In some places the Caravans are packed in like Sardines .The free overnight parks jampacked .Nearly every vehicle had a caravan behind it on the road..The money saved on diesel if I had been towing payed for half the accommodation cost and I'm still 80 ,000 dollars better off thanks to you..I am truly grateful for your kind wisdom .Yourself and Scotty Kilmer are Global Gurus. We are very fortunate to have you both to tell us about the good , the bad and the ugly..Thanks John..
I’ve seen a couple of options on the roads. Either mount a small caravan onto the truck bed and tow a car or tow a larger caravan and carry a small car on the truck bed.
John, thank you for another informative video that gets the point across. Will you ever be addressing fifth wheelers with respect to towing, dynamic stability, safety etc. With our ute based obsession in Australia, there seems to be some inherent safety advantages, and I would certainly appreciate your candid and honest appraisal. Cheers Ian
The problem is 5th wheelers are generally too large to be towed by dual cab utes. And they have this image of being a Seppo thing. I like the idea, but it does two things, one is to exclude the use of the tub for off the track camping, and two they are generally bigger than many van parks here in Aus can accommodate.
As a recently retired career truck driver (B-double fuel tankers for the last 15 years), I am very aware of axle limits, tare weights and gross weights having occasionally stretched the friendship at heavy vehicle weighbridges over the years. You made DPC sound so inviting John that I have gone out and bought a 79 series single cab ute (GVM 3.4 t) and a 2.6 t GVM off road caravan more for (hopefully) durability than any serious off road work. I have had it weighed by Queensland Transport when both are fully loaded for an extended trip and I am 160 kg under in the ute (individual axle weights all good) and 200 kg under in the van. The ute does have a steel bull bar and winch (which help to keep weight over the steer when towing) but my wife and I only weigh 140 kg together, the ute has a canvas canopy with no drawer system, fridge, second battery, second spare tyre etc. and just has a lockable aluminium gullwing toolbox for spares, compressor, puncture repair and tools with a small table, 2 chairs, a bag of firewood and not much else in the actual tray. It would be basically impossible to have a solid canopy with all the fancypants stuff that most people seem to need and then tow a 3.5 t van without a GVM upgrade and the 79 series has pretty much the highest GCM (6.9 t) apart from light trucks/American utes. I really believe that it is only a matter of time before someone high up realises that an easy way to obtain some quick revenue in order to help refill the depleted treasury coffers is to simply change the signs at heavy vehicle weighbridges to read "All Caravans Must Enter".
Love your channel John even if you do give caravaners a hard time (as an ex truckie I am sure you can guess my feelings towards many of them). And as I have owned Subarus for the last 15 years, my son and daughter both own Subarus (manuals) and my daily driver is a 2018 Forester I am looking forward to a response from Subaru about your earlier discussion regarding their CVT's. Keep up the good work.
Having spent a bit of time driving off road in a Fuso truck, in my capacity as a rural firefighter, I can tell you it's a pretty capable off road machine; I'd rate it as good as a Nissan Patrol. A bit of a slug when it's loaded up with water and I'm in a hurry, but it's a f*cking truck! Also consider various Isuzu models which are decent, too. BTW, the single cab Fuso is shorter in wheelbase than the Patrol ute, by a size 10 boot or so.
I can but agree. I too am a rural firefighter and have driven light and heavy units in the worst terrain imaginable. And they aren't too bad to drive! Sure they don't have leather seats and a 12 speaker sound system and adaptive cruise control but as a tow vehicle they would be far better (and safer) than the LC etc. Oh, and John? Your advice is absolutely spot on, mate!
Iveco Daily 4x4 too. Earlier models were more truck like with a solid front axle, while the current model is IFS I believe. And that might place it as the ideal middle option between LC and Canter etc.
@@andrewdyer2209 Yeah.. heck, even as light truck set up to tou,r minus trailer/van..
It’s great you all drove trucks with loads on rear but I don’t think someone towing a caravan will have much weight on back. The rear of truck will move around a lot without any weight. Also less weight great fuel economy but in this config could lead less weight = more danger
@@bushmagpie3312 The towball weight does count as weight over the rear axle, as I understand it. Hence the photos of utes bent in half because their gumby owners thought they could carry 1t in the tray and tow a 3.5t caravan at the same time...
Re your Mazda 929 anecdote, I remember back in roughly ‘82 or ‘83, Wheels magazine (back when it was good) drove a Camira and a Sigma to the Gulf and through the NT, about 3000km all up. Absolutely flogged these cars and drove them places that people wouldn’t take their Landcruisers today. And both cars did it just fine (even the Camira, surprisingly!). I often think of this when I look at some of the pricey stuff people are sold today because they buy with their emotions not their heads.
There’s a video somewhere here on RUclips featuring it, a good nostalgic trip down Australian motoring journalism memory lane.
I loved the look of those big 929s when I was a kid.
John, a very timely review of this subject. I agree with your comments. Small trucks just make a lot more sense in this towing space.
I always wonder how stressful for those 4x4 to tow such a big load, you gave a very good option using the truck and money left for a daily driver. Thumbs up.
Very good to hear this sort of uncommon sense being spoken. I tow a small caravan with a venerable 120 series Prado, and when I say "small", I mean it - the caravan weighs about 1200kg fully loaded! I think the towball weight is about 75kg. It's all we need, and we enjoy getting out and about with it. While it's called an "off-road" variant, I wouldn't consider it a serious off-roader. But we don't do hairy-chested off-roading anyway (too old for that), just quite a few dirt roads and it's fine for that. We are always astounded at the average size of caravans we see on our travels - it's quite rare to see one as small as ours. And of course a small caravan means better fuel consumption - unless we have a big headwind, the Prado can usually return litres/100km figures in the 12s or 13s. Not sure if we could get to DP Creek with our setup, but we'll live with that! :-)
While I never plan to tow anything, ever, I think the Fuso option mentioned here is excellent advice. Like a poor man's Unimog.
Thanks for the detailed and concise description of the constraints of towing a heavy caravan. We currently tow a caravan which is very close to 2700 kg when it is fully laden with all the essentials like 200 litres of water and a 100 litres of booze, plus food of course with a 2019 200 series LC and I would absolutely agree that this is marginal at best. For our next combination I think a fifth wheel with a light 4x4 truck will certainly be a better option, I already have a heavy vehicle licence so it will just be a matter of getting the better half’s licence upgraded which as you note is not that difficult.
Upvote for the "100 litres of booze".
Best common sense advice I have heard 👍 Isuzu nps is my choice as it has a parallel chassis and the transfer case is higher for more ground clearance.
@@terranowe Chassis is not stepped up at rear of cabin. No bends to create weak points when twisted under load.
Canter 4x4 + camper on the back- that would give new meaning to king of the road
Nice stuff John :) My $0.02 worth, growing up we spent 10 years living in a caravan's moving round etc, the first van was a 12' camper trailer able to be towed by a HQ Holden, the next was a 23' Millard weighing who knows how much that we had to have towed to each new place by others because the HQ wasn't up to it, Interesting times. Anyway if you want to have the Taj Mahal at Dingo Piss Creek stay in the hotel up the road. If you want to take a van buy a little off-road tear drop that weighs
I agree wholeheartedly with your assessment. Unfortunately Iveco, one of the main contenders for an alternative, still hasn't released it's latest Daily. Nobody knows when they will make an appearance (John, maybe you have a contact that knows?) Second hand Dailys are rare. It really is an arms race with these ridiculous "off road" vans. Try navigating around tight bends or coming face to face with another massive rig on a sandy track. I've seen it, sat back up the track a little way, got out a cold one and watched the circus.
Exactly what I am dreaming of is the truck options, these truck's drive so well indeed, 😊.
The new Ford Ranger wildtrak has nearly 600kg payload when it is towing a 3500kg and the tow bar is already included so the V6TD is a far better option so there is that, not to mention it comes with a air filter which actually prevents dust from entering the intake.
Great advice as always, Mr. Cadogan, and your riveting disposition makes the vehicle particulars entertaining. Thank You and my compliments to Dunning and Kruger.
Most people aren't all for adventure trying to drag trailers and vans into the most stupidest places so if people are taking vans off road, not dirt roads, full off roads, they are stupid. These a thing that's called a tow ball just take it off if you're going to do anything serious. Love the work John
Twenty or so years ago, I suggested to my late Father that he purchased a Toyota Dyna to tow his caravan around Australia with. He scoffed at the time. He first purchased a Falcon and then "upgraded" to a gas gulping Navara.
It took him some time but he eventually conceded that he should have followed my advice. It's worth noting that he was only towing an eighteen foot van.
This is all fantastic but there are some serious shortcomings for the Fuso without even mentioning reliability and warranty problems.
Suspension: hit a pothole or a speed bump and the factory suspension seat could almost launch you into space. For the passenger, at least they won’t need a chiropractor because they will no longer have a spine after it becomes fused to the engine cover.
Tyres: factory they come with road tyres but if you’re planing on doing any dirt they MUST be charged. We did one trip with them and let’s just say we felt a lot better emptying our wallets to fit super singles and 37’s two days later after we got out of the mud.
Engine: the 3L 4 cylinder 4p10 makes about the same power as my motorbike and they say it can move 10 tons!!! Now I don’t mind going slow but this thing gets overtaken by road trains on flat ground! Up hills… don’t worry about a bull bar! I’m more scared of getting hit by kangaroos rather than me hitting them.
Cabin noise: I won’t even mention the factory two speaker stereo system because you simply can’t hear it over the road and engine noise, add 37” mud terrain tyres and you might as well be in a separate vehicle than the passenger
So once you add to the purchase price a custom tray, parabolic suspension kit, full ecu remapping, dyno tune, sound deadening for the cabin, upgraded seats, upgraded stereo, full set of rims and tyres and let’s not forget it’s all got to be engineered. Let’s just say that if you purchased a Landcruiser Sahara instead you would still have enough change to get a full GVM upgrade done as well.
But despite all its downfalls it is still an absolute weapon, It gets a crowd around it just filling up fuel and I wouldn’t change it for anything. Except for maybe a Isuzu…
F-TRUCK for the win ! F250, F350 no hassles towing 🥇😆🤙🏼
I lived full time in my Bushtracker caravan for 11 years. Towing at the upper limit of my vehicle's rating was not much fun. Just sold my caravan and bought a house, glad to be out of that fat towing trap. Every time I got back on the road it was paranoia. I concur with what John says here, Landcruisers and utes are just not big enough to have margins of safety. A truck for heavy towing is the most sensible option. (BTW I have been all over the country, and never once even got tempted to go to Dingo Piss Creek, saw the turn off and just kept on going by!). The outback sux, never again.
A few years I was asked for my thoughts on what vehicle we needed at work for moving some equipment around and I said a 4wd Fuso Canter or similar because drill rods are long and heavy, but they went with ute and trailer option. I laughed when you revealed one you prepared earlier, I wonder if this was out a few years ago they would have listened to another engineer over a scientist.
I enjoyed this video. Some very good points raised: I'm looking to tow a trailer for work and it's helped me in my decision of a tow vehicle.
You make a good point John, on specs. The downside is, if you buy a truck, you get a truck. Slow, loud, rough ride and generally uncomfortable. Chalk and cheese in ride comfort and nvh, imo.
That rational is lacking with a lot of people. Great advice once again JC
Fun fact: if you get yourself a propper truck - like I dif - then you do not need to tow a trailer anymore (except if you have fun by towing and you now do tow for the fun of it). It all fits into the truck whatever you had in mind to put into or onto the trailer. You do not even need a roof rack. Just go for it.
Best Dingo Piss Creek rig I have seen is an Isuzu N Series RV (house on back of truck and not towing it) towing a tandem trailer with a Suzuki Jimny on it. Seems way smarter than buying a mega priced Landcruiser or Ranger and a huge caravan.
If your a Toyota fan the 70 series Troop carrier GLX has a Curb of 2325kg and a GVM of 3330 giving a load of 975kg. The GCM is 6800kg. So at GVM it can legally tow 3470KG. At 10% ball load it can still carry 600kg+. The Duel cab has similar specs. Short of a 4X4 truck and most of them are limited if a derated 4500kg GVM (car licence) because of a high curb weight or a 150k+ US 2500 size ute the 70 series is the most capable.
I have a new Hilux with some essential extra outback gear (bar, suspension that lasts, decent 17inch AT tyres, water, food, recovery gear, first aid, toolbox, few spares, winch) and after a weigh in I have 550kg to fit the ‘cook’ and towball mass of 270kg. I tow an Australian Off Road Van 2.4t well past DPCreek many times, so reasonable safe outback towing can be done easily by just keeping under the mass limits.
Oh John. So so spot on with this video. Just had the pleasure of visiting 2 caravan parks on the NSW north coast. Stayed in a cabin and watched the parade of LC200s towing taj mahals and couldnt help but wonder why there's a tendency to such excess. OTH saw an elderly couple with a light, modern, fully equipped van with plenty of ground clearance being towed by a Falcon sedan that would be clearly satisfactory for most people's needs. And let's face it, most people who buy these huge "rigs" are cashed up retired baby boomers......not that there's anything wrong with being a "CURBB".
I am towing with a Falcon XR6 and it's too low. it's a great car on good roads, but it is disappointing for towing. RWD is not good reversing on wet grass up hill. (My front yard). I have ordered a Pajero Sport and will stick with the Avan camper.
Respectfully, I'd counsel against upgrading a road caravan towards "4wd spec". I'm no expert in caravan construction so I don't have a list of differences, but if I were a betting man the structure above the top step might be better made in an offroad type than a standard caravan.
A sensible person will realise that trips along the Gibb River Road or the Peninsula Development Road (to Cape York) are not to be taken frivolously. But the are lots of places people might find themselves going to where the road is vastly worse than could be reasonably expected, for example the Windorah to Birdsville road. Buying an "off road" spec up front gets you (hopefully) superior R&D and it certainly gets you a functional warranty, as you are operating within its design envelope. 150km in to the harshest road most people could imagine is no place to be wondering if one had upgraded his road spec acoustically transparent shiteau enough to actually make it.. I did that road in 2019 on the way to the Big Red Bash. One casualty was a caravan that had sheared its U bolts and rotated 45degrees on the axle. No doubt an exciting time followed by an expensive tilt tray ride into Birdsville!
Ford 150 250 350 i would go for for heavy towing or even a small truck thanks for showing a small truck
The Fuso / Isuzu / Hino aren’t de-rated to register at 4500KG GVM John. They just fit a supplementary plate showing 4500 KG GVM.
Nothing mechanical is done. Just registration.
And if you do that and fit a body you can be at negative payload. Worse than a 200 or 300 wagon for payload.
A big factor with a light truck is 0% BAC. Some jurisdictions take this as also not having the keys in your possession. A bit hard when you want to have a relaxing vino or ale at the end of the day. No nipping down to the local for a social couple of mid strength drinks. A truck is zero alcohol.
Wow it's expensive to own a caravan + tow vehicle. I used to throw a tent and some camping gear in the back of a Suzuki Sierra and go walkabout (drive about?) for weeks. Tiffany loved the great outdoors a the time and it was as cheap as chips. Sometimes I'd even stay at a motel if it had a pool, how's that for luxury! Ah, we try to get away from it all and end up taking it all with us.
like the answer here my personal preference is the Isuzu NPS as unlike the Fuso it has low range and having driven it in some very inshospiable places just put a motorhome on that and if you want tow a small vehicle with a boat on top for all other little excursions. Fuel consuption on this configuration is about 14l/00 anyway
We have a Canter, with a living area on the back - and no van. It's more than enough living space for two people.
My stage1 v8 landy is rated to 8500 lb and the tow hitch is rated to 7500 kg. There was quite a bit of soldier factor applied to the safety factor
in the 70'sand 80's i towed a double horse float with two large horses most weekends. at that time the best vehicle i could get in nz was a ford falcon 500. it did the job and as horses need to be towed with consideration, i never felt out of control. but using your logic i must have been grossly over loaded. a friend had an old chrysler ambulance which seemed the perfect tow vehicle. plus he could sleep in it. much more comfortable than sweeping out the turds and sleeping in the float lol.
The other thing you will find with the 4wd trucks IS, many of them come with things likeSerious ground clearance, Realy big wheels, diff locks and air suspended seats and other stuff, that you will pay a lot of extra money to have on any of the light vehicle 4wds.
We tow a 2.6t ATM van with a discovery. For the reasons mentioned, we chose the extra payload capacity of the discovery over the LC, Also it was a better drive for our needs, much more fuel efficient and we choose to not go offroading. Also the LC was, and still is more expensive. Even though the rig works well, and has agood margin of conservatism , I would not want to tow much more. Note reliability has been good too so far.
Think the D4 and D5 are a superior tow vehicle than the LC200s. Unfortunately however they do suffer from the dual problem of greater chance of reliability issues plus a poor dealer network in remote areas.
I saw a massive Ford F350 towing a horse trailer. Had a baseball size tow ball mounted on the tray.
It's crazy that 3.5t or even 4.5t is considered towing heavy in AUS. One of the reasons that I sold my Ram was that it was right at the top of the tow rating with a 14,000 lb/6.35t trailer.
Brilliant advice John.
I realised after a few 4WD trips with the 900kg Kimberly camper, and then the 2,885kg Mission Xtrail van, that we needed to go back to a 1,600kg 1/2 way point so that we could still be able to pull the van through Mud and Sand as well as sleep in comfort.
I notice that no-one mentions a Jeep ?
We have a Vista RV, also a Trak Tvan etc. You have to live outdoors and not in your van, but is that not the point.
Hey John great clip,yeah we went to Birdsville in our 17 foot on road van which handles off road fine which we drive to conditions, ppl have stupid ideas on vans and think I need a huge off road van for Australia.thx John keep it up.
Scotty Kilmer is saying in his latest video not to leave OBCD readers plugged in all the time. Down dingo piss creek nearly everyone has a Scanguage to read Auto temps and they leave it in all the time. Your opinion.
Those Canters ( and same size Isuzus) are used as mid sized RFS fire trucks, and they drive not unlike a car and can go pretty much anywhere. Even when fully loaded and on their weight limits. As they are all the time with near two tons of water as well as all the other gear.
For a light truck, I'd suggest looking at a HINO. 4 wheel disk brakes; 6 speed transmission; lots of electronic safety stuff/stability control. Seats are pretty average, and you'll need to convert the dual rear wheels to singles, but they are a pretty good unit. HINO is owned by Toyota BTW.
If you are thinking of a IVECO Daily 4x4, do yourself a favour and erase that thought. Great off road while they are working. But I know 2 friends who bought them and they are not all that enamoured with them. Brakes are not quite up to it; transmission issues; electrical issues. Do a Google and you'll have hours of entertaining reading, especially if you come across the website from 'Going Bush'...
2.7T is not to take off road … imagine the patrol towing that on the canning stock. You’d use 25L for 100kms. For light dirt roads you should consider the RAM 2500 given that you already purchased the elephant van
I'd avoid ram. They're the anti-christ to deal with from a consumer complaint department. (This is my north American experience talking, your experience may vary). I personally would go with GM (Holden's parent). On the sealed road my GM 1500 will tow 2.7 tons with ease. On dirt trails, I wouldn't take that much weight behind anything that you couldn't travel in a AWD sedan/soccer Mom SUV. Sure you can physically do it... But it wouldn't be enjoyable.
@@craigquann we only have RAM in Australia. We drive on the other side of the road, so our choice of American made vehicles is limited
@@No0ne31 Actually, here in Oz we have the Ram, (most popular in that category), and the GM Silverado, and from mid next year, the F-150 as well.
So there are options in that category.
They all claim to have 4.5 tonne towing capacity.
Whether they are as reliable as an Isuzu or Hino truck is debatable.
But they would probably be more comfortable, less bouncing when sitting on top of the front axle.
I work for transport for nsw and all our trucks be it 4wd or not have a park on the back that say max tow rating with a 50mm ball is 2229 you need to go to 70mm ball to be able to tow 3.5 ton. And that is for hino, fuso, iveco and isuzu. Any of them fitted with a conventional tow bar and 50mm ball.
Yep go the truck with a flat tray and a slide on camper body with its own supports built on so. Less rego, no towing, if the fabricator is any good will look tough as nails, will be better on fuel and its a multi use vehicle. Also those canters have pretty aweome clearance underneath too so save on the lift kit and crap as well.
Why wouldn't you put the van without the wheels and suspension straight onto the chassis of the truck. Or get a van bult on to the truck with a walk through from the cab.
Isuzu, Hino, Iveco etc. also provide proper 4WD truck options. In terms of considering the package prior to purchase, why not do a single package and throw the caravan on the back as a camper / motorhome. That way, you have all the creature comforts and nothing to tow. So apart from additional height limitations, you can seriously go bush.
Back in the day, I used my Mitsubishi Magna AWD to tow a light trailer with windup canvas sides. A shovel and portable toilet seat, battery-powered shower. 20 litre bucket.
I thought it was pointless to be buying something that I would only use on a 2-3 week holiday every year, cluttering up my property, so I hired the trailer instead.
Another great art piece. So with your opening speech your transitioning to bat for other side?
John check the LC300 roof loading it’s 75kg and rack weighs 30kg doesn’t leave much left.
Compare the Patrol to land cruiser GCM/GVM, Add bullbar and tow bar plus normal family of 4.
Just buy a patrol and spend money on fuel. The payload is a lot better. I don’t agree with truck idea as they are uncomfortable and agricultural. You may end up with back pain as they aren’t built for comfort just for commercial use. Look at the design all the weight is over front wheels so any bouncing with trailer and rear end becomes unstable. A lot of trucks don’t have sway control,traction aids, trailer sway mitigation and the advanced driver aids for inexperienced towing people. Only long distance is truck is semi. Just lift the right foot and take your time, rest every 2hrs and stay alert. Be mindful of your surroundings. Drive alert. Pick vehicle which stable and has a greater mass than caravan but is well balanced, large SUV.
We bought our off-road van (not full off-road) for corrugated roads as insurance wouldn’t cover an on road van on dirt roads. Cruisemaster do offer an upgrade fully engineered upgrade but insurance needs to looked into for coverage.
We also live in the land on other side of the brick wall (WA).
Just looking at my local DPC option about 90mins drive away. I can “glamp” with their onsite set-ups, bed made, water on, bbq ready, self-contained for $152.50 a night (2 night minimum). My back of the envelope calculations show I can afford more than 650 x 2 night trips (over 1300 nights away) and still be ahead on dollars. I’ve not had to tow a thing so I’ve saved a fortune on fuel and taken nothing more than the usual road risk when driving. Don’t have to make a fool of myself trying to park the Taj Mahal and argue with the missus over whether I’m lined up right or not. And don’t have to cart my own effluent home with me afterwards.
If that’s a pretty standard price for most “glamps” at most DPC sites, why bother with the hassle? Surely you could cover most of Oz with nothing more than a Toyota Corolla or Hyundai i30.
At the end of your 1300 nights you would still have a 2nd hand Taj Mahal worth probably 1/2 what you paid for it, so it's not a total loss. We do see your point though.
Very limited number of chalet style accommodation around compared to campsites. I’ve discovered Camplify- still need the car to tow it but same sort of maths versus actually buying a van.
I went half way, skipped the Landcruiser/Patrol options, just not up to the task. Our plans involve more than just a 1 year big lap, we intend to hit the road and live in the Aluminium Shitbox, as some would like to call it, though ours is going to be a fibreglass model, .... we intend to be on the road permanently for as long as 10 years after I retire.
We currently have a 3.2t ATM van, that is 11 years old. We will be building a new van to run at approx 4t ATM, rated to 4.5t, we have bought a second hand Chev 2500HD, capable in NB2 rego if towing 6.8t on pintle hook or 70mm ball with air brakes, or 4.5t on a DO45 hitch electric brakes. Our safety margin at 4t is like a landcruiser towing 2t. NB1 or NB2, no real issue, but depends on the payload we want in the truck, will be going back to NB2, as we want to kit the truck for occasional nights away from the van, ie Fraser Is, Kakadu, Madigan Track, etc. Even these, or the Mitsy Canters, Izuzu NPR300s, as car rego can all have the same payload issues, if regod as a LR NB2 truck, the issues are not so great. Chev has a GCM of something like 11t, I know of few with 1million kms having spent their lives towing 5th wheel horse floats at these GCMs. We do not even know the 3.2t van is on behind the pickup, in fact the mirrors are only there to know when to pull back in front of the LCs and Patrols towing their 3t wobble boxes and to check that the van is still attached. My 2012 2500HD was 10k cheaper than any chopped LC200 of similar age and kms. And it came with a 2.4m long Metalink canopy as a bonus.
Unfortunately, the 4x4 Canters and Izuzus are very uncomfortable as standard, and much too tall to access for those with any disability, the main reason I had to exclude them from my assessment, as my wife has very bad knees and lower back issues, and is years from the docs doing knee replacements. I appreciate that they are great trucks, but to fix the suspension, go to Single Rear Wheels, sound deaden them, put decent seats in them, costs much of that 40k saving John mentions over a LC. Not bagging them one bit, but being extremely realistic. They are still a truck. The Yank tanks, and I do not care what brand of 2500/250 or 3500/350 you buy, are built as trucks, but drive much more like a car, with power and economy to boot. If you did not need 4x4, a 2WD truck could be a good option, as they are lower and ride somewhat better without the modifications.
I accept that a new Yank tank is not cheap, but then neither is a Sahara with a dual cab chop, with engine & tranny mods to make it half suitable for towing 3.5t. In fact I know a bloke who recently spent 220k on a Late model LC200, chop, engine & tranny mods. A client of mine just bought a new F250 upper spec for 205k, hmmmmmmmmmm
If only most would buy a van suitable to the tug they own, rather than towing too big a shit box with their under rated tow tug.
This video blog is pure genius. Big thumbs up M8.
I have a 7 tonne Isuzu box truck. It is nice to drive. The plan is to make it into a house truck
No towing required.
Here in ‘Murica, this issue is a nonissue. One-ton trucks with GVWRs of around 14,000 pounds are as common as quarter-ton trucks seem to be in Shitsville.
With the right truck and bed, Marion and Ian could tow their new off road van to Dingo Piss Creek as well as load up a Kia Picanto or similar on the back of the truck and have economical transport when they arrive at DPC for those cosy evening dinners.
We had a GXL Prado with the usual bullshit bull bar. Our van is 2500kg ATM, which matched the capacity of the Prado. All the other numbers were in spec and backed up by weigh bridge checks. But we were right on the knocker. So we considered ripping of the bullbar and removing those stupid back child seats (70kg thank you). Anyway we didn't go that way. Instead we bought a latter model GX. No back seats, no bullbar, 3000kg capacity. More cargo capacity than a 200 series from memory and 150 litres of fuel. Well within limits now. We despeced to get a better spec. And saved money.
Hoo Ray! Some Bloody common sense at last in this department. I have absolutely no plans to tow a home behind me, but I do carry some crap (plus the odd bit of towing a trailer) so I went to an American based 4wd just for the extra room, the weight capabilities (STOCK!) & of course comfort. I have never understood the reasons of all the hugely expensive 4wds then having to do GVM upgrades still to end up with no room & being worried about putting in an extra box of beer ! I hope many take note of your advice !! Cheers!
Very well said John 😉.
We think the same way on that subject.
What about a Ineos Grenadier with expected 900 to 1000 payload? GCM 7000kg. Expected delivery is 2023 so close for the May 2023 delivery of caravan? Cost $85500 plus LCT, gov costs.....etc Good idea about the truck but l suspect an older couple would struggle manuvouring a truck with caravan off-road. The caravan is brought/ordered so this is probably the best option l believe for their situation as the vehicle is under 5 metres in length
The Ineos Grenadier has a 3500kg towing capacity.
Thanks John. About time someone has put these trucks out there
Most vans are quite easy to upgrade, especially if it's just going to handle some dirt roads. Change the axle, drums and suspension, the rest of the frame should be fine for most vans as long as you have a bit of mechanical sympathy when towing off road.
There are a few off the shelf suspension upgrades for vans as well so they can be converted to Indepenant coil with shock etc, Cruisemaster is one brand that offers kits.
In a previous life. We went with an LX 470 with sway bars towing a 19ft 2 axle 2.5t van. Both vehicle and van had adjustable suspension, very handy. The LX was an amazing vehicle. But all was well for 2.5 years when on one trip driving into a camp site (that we had been going to for over 10 years), over confidence, and a badly adjusted electric brake setting saw the fully laden van push the LX down the small incline and jackknifed. Major damage to both at walking pace...Van sold LX repaired and sold, and back to a Prado and tent😁. Much easier cheaper and less stress. People please realise that manouvering a rig like that around our roads is extremely stressful, and potentially very risky. Not to mention the costs involved! Outrageous to own a rig like that. Insurances, maintenance fuel...Yep big is not always better.
Hi John, loves your straight no BS approach to this massive problem you with your experience, engineering expertise is highlighting but fallen on death ears.. My journey started with tent first time with my young boys under 7 before covid started in jan 2020, bought a 6 by 4 trailer so can bring more staff etc. On the 2nd tenting exp, wife said no more half day preparing and loading of car and trailer , then unpack again with me pegging for hours to secure the tent only to be blown down by 50km gale force wind.. looked at all sorts of camper to 15ft caravan in sydney, settled on a 2nd hand jayco Eagle touring model with ATM 1.35t. Like what you pt out in the video, i just didnt feel right to tow 2T van when my 2015 2.2l diesel is rated at 2T, 200 on the down load. Many laughed at my query on certain van site that i should get a 4x4 instead.. idiot they are as i have Gvm of 2.9T, kerb weight of 2.2t, which give me 700kg payload when none of d max , hilux etc can go any where near that.. had storage isnt a problem, probably would have gone for 15ft full van with 2T ATM, but i told my wife its silly to force buy and not able to use it right away if we need to pay for a storage spot else where.. i have got TBW scale , caravan scale to ensure i have done my best not to overload both the car and the camper, so far my most recent year end 12 night trip fully loaded , the car still have 200kg to spare on cars GVM. towed beautifully from sydney to lake conjola stress free. It is so frightening to see 4wd towing 20ft more bigger full caravans going 100km or more on the highway care free, many even ignored the van was swaying none stop mildly and kept on speeding. I liked your truck idea and the cool factor 😎 plus its true towing capacity is something worth to think about especially if a normal car license can be used..
Terry Sander has a great channel on awesome Aussie caravan towing .
Good to know.
"That's just fucking crazy" - gotta love JC and the brutal honesty.
Hi Dave..wholeheartedly agree with your 5 especially no 3 as the same driver winning gets boring ,Why don't they bring in either weight or horse power penalties foe winners like a few other classes of racing does.Might help even the field out.
At least you can keep using the Landcruser after the big lap. What are you supposed to do with a Canter ?
Sell it. Unlike cars, trucks (particularly 4x4 small ones) tend to have excellent resale value because they’ll last forever. 200,000 km in a truck means it’s only just worn in.
Looking forward to availability of lots of used caravans!
Maybe a Unimog RV is the way to go? There is something called an Earth cruiser which is built in Australia.
Large off-road vans are appearing on verges all around our area..... Though not many are often mobile.
You nailed it well stated get a 4x4 light truck is best option
It seems to me that everyone comes at this from the wrong direction - they want to take their block of flats with them wherever they go. My wife and I (both in our late 60s at the time) decided we wanted to do the big lap - many dingo piss creeks visited - back in 2016. I didn’t want to tow. We had spent decades in various camping set ups so knew what we wanted. We also didn’t want to spend a fortune on a depreciating asset. The prime consideration was to keep our set up as light as possible. Our first trial was a trip through the Pilbara with a tent and while we enjoyed it, we concluded that the ground was too hard to drive in the 27 tent pegs needed for a safe, weather proof campsite. So we considered a roof top tent but it took just one climb up the ladder at a distributors shop to convince my wife that it wasn’t an option. So we made the decision to tow. So Mr Google was fired up and we found a trailer tent (no trailer) from a distributor on the Gold Coast and had a local trailer builder build a trailer to our specs and bolt the tent on. The all up weight of the trailer, tent, water in jerry cans and all the tools and stuff needed to set up camp came to 400 Kgm. It was minimalist but very comfortable. We have added stuff as we have travelled but have managed to keep the trailer weight comfortably below 500 kgm. We have now covered 80,000 kms with no dramas. That includes a trip down the Tanami Road to Wolf Creek Meteorite Crater and parts of the Gibb River Road and a number of other less than perfect unsealed roads. I guess what I am saying is why this talk about heavy caravans and trucks to tow them. Totally unnecessary. The first year’s depreciation on either the vehicle or the caravan is way more than the cost of my little camper. Your comment about upwelling of caravans and camper trailers is right on point.
I watched some towing videos on stability and came to the conclusion that if the heavy caravans were dog trailers instead of pig trailer many of the stability problems wouldn't be an issue.
Why are we not using more dog trailers?
I know it would cost more but surely it would mean you could have a much reduced tow ball down force and you could have a trailer heavier than the tow vehicle and still be safe.
I've often wondered this. John perhaps you could do a video on 5th wheelers and dog trailers versus single (or dual) axle trailers ?
I've been looking at caravans and am limited by my tow vehicle's weight restrictions 2000kg and 100kg ball weight. That means looking at smaller lighter vans and when they are asking $54,000 for a 14 foot van with nothing special added I just shelved the entire idea.
Once the international borders open back up ,there will be a flood of vans on the market. prices have gone mad lately , it is a sellers market
What's wrong with a tent, anyway?
Feels like I've had a few drinks before watching this... auto focus going crazy
Land Rover Defender and Discovery are also options for that kind of towing.