Hey everyone! This video was beyond lovely to make, hope you do all enjoy! DON’T YOU DARE GO HOLLOW! The discord for the channel: discord.gg/xv8t5bFSzd
This is an interesting idea. I do like the connection with the Twinbirds carvings in Farum Azula. I just see one BIG problem. There are tons and tons of beastmen bodies buried in the walls and floors. Deathrite Birds are all about Ghostflame burning of the dead but it seems Farum Azula practiced a very different burial rite. Something to consider.
@@theemeraldgecko310 The additional heads he used to have contradict the idea of him being the twinbird though. Why would he be given that name? It would be demeaning.
Maliketh is not just a squatter in Farum Azula. He's the last practitioner of the beastmen's religion. As such, Farum Azula is closer to an ancestral home for him. This explains how he knows about it.
As I was thinking about 'are there any four headed birds or pics of four birds anywhere in the game', possibly from an older time, it suddenly struck me that Placidusax has two heads and Bayle has three. There are the Two Fingers and the Three Fingers, and the three is banished to the bottom of the Subterranean Shunning-Grounds. Interesting.
9:17 Farum Azula doesn't exist beyond space and time, it exists in the present timeline. You can see it from the Lands Between. Only Placidusax exists beyond space and time. Farum Azula is just floating over the sea, likely because it's being carried by powerful winds.
Actually, about that, there is a ton of evidence that the shadow lands exist/existed in the "ocean" area of the center of the main game map, had seen a few videos that had a "combined" map and the two maps do fit together quite well given. Specifically they covered the fact that in the combined map, the shadowlands dragon area would have been close to calid, specifically the beastial sanctum which btw, has tons of fallen ruins bits from farum azula. Moreover there is a lot of evidence that farum azula would have originally been located in that area too. At least before it became air borne.
Another theme I see ignored in Placidusax lore is, yes he has 2 heads, but he used to have 5; Kinda like a hand made of a dragon if you imagine knuckles as his chest, fingernails as face. I feel like that's a huge blind spot in lore in a world full of finger creatures. Unless there's a vid I've yet to see
Analogues of Pre-Erdtree vs Erdtree eras: Twin Bird = Elden Beast (the Outer God's Envoy) Placidusax = Godfrey (Elden Lord / Consort) Fled god / missing Queen (perhaps Gloam Eyed Queen) = Marika This would explain the entire pre-Erdtree forces: Death Birds spawned from the Twin Bird (a la Metyr and the Fingers/Finger Creepers) and using Ghost Flame, Ancient Dragons & Drakes come from Placidusax's ilk and use Dragon Flame, and the Gloam Eyed Queen spawning the Godskins and using Black Flame. The Banished Knights represent humans serving the dragons and the royal court of the Gloam Eyed Queen + Placidusax. The Beastmen represent the earliest form of human and the clergy (mankind evolved from beasts), all while still serving the dragons (the Tarnished Archaeologist covers this). There are beastman clergy statues in a lot of places in Farum Azula that look just like Gurranq and that flank a dragon statue. Gurranq was originally a beastman clergy member until getting converted into Marika's shadow by Marika's Two Fingers, thus taking on the form of Maliketh. Also, the reliefs you mentioned depict the Wormfaces, not the Lampreys. The statue of the girl surrounded by 3 wolves is most likely the Queen of that era: the Gloam Eyed Queen, not Marika. Anyway, Bayle, for some unknown reason, decides that the opportunity is ripe to attack Placidusax, which results in Placi not being able to defend the Gloam Eyed Queen and thus presenting the opportunity for Marika to dispatch the Gloam Eyed Queen, seize power, and summon her own Outer God's Envoy (the Elden Beast) at the Divine Gate and usher in the age of the Erdtree. The only issue is the reconciliation of Melina vs the Gloam Eyed Queen, since Melina is the daughter of Marika but is believed to also be the Gloam Eyed Queen due to the Frenzied Flame ending. Perhaps Marika took the throne from her daughter in order to usher in the age of the Erdtree. This whole tale was written by George R. R. Martin, who loves to borrow heavily from the drama of European monarchies from the Middle Ages to the Early Modern period (500 AD - 1800 AD). Mothers of monarchs taking control of a kingdom from a child is something I could see him borrowing from and weaving into his stories.
Alright, this is mad, but if you’re into something, this would have interesting implications for the timeline. Additionally, with Placidussax’s heads all being of different genders and personalities, what if he was in a Marika-Radagon situation but all selves are present at once through all the heads?
The fact that Placidusax lost his other heads contradicts the idea that he is the twinbird. Why would he be named twinbird? The reference to his two remaining heads would be seen an offense to his legacy, so if anyone called him a twinbird it would have to be a foe, not a friend. It would be mockery.
@@theemeraldgecko310 Twindragon would be the name then, not twinbird. It's demeaning to call the first Elden Lord a bird, and to name him after his failure against Bayle.
@@ETBrooDagain imo you’re looking at it from how our history would look at it. Dragon culture could be completely different+ what I meant was it’s been so long since anyone has seem him, it would be understandable for people to not fully grasp what the Twinbird actually is
If anything, those white winged envoys could have been the bird warriors. Even if they're not, its more likely them than a giant dragon that is clearly a dragon and no one would confused a dragon with a bird.
I also feel like there’s a link between bale and placudisax and mhog and Margott. Respectively one has black curled horns, the other is hairy and stone like.
What I'm really confused over is the relationship between the beastman society and the ancient dragons, more specifically Placidusax. Was this society built on the ruins of dragon society? Was Placidusax aready entombed in the storm when beastmen took it upon themselves to be priests of their dragon lords? Are the active ancient dragons just witnesses to this hijack or the instigators of the cult?
Is it possible that placidusax, as the first lord of the land between, was tasked with maintaining DEATH as the single law of lands and when Marika removed the rune of death from the Elden ring, she disconnected placidusax from his outer god leaving him abandoned?
Fyi, the greater will gave life to everything when it shattered itself. The outer gods are the remnannce of the dying great one. Metyr and the elden beast were tasked to take the life of everything in the lands between and send that force back to the cosmos for the greater will to take back (it gains it's life back through the death of the life it created. This is why there are multiple trees in the elden beast fight, each tree is a planet that was consumed) I believe the dragons and death birds praise deaths essence once life is taken (the black flame it makes), considering that dragons are mostly stone and go against time/death. They're basically priests for death after the death rune was taken by marika
Idk man.... there's been a lot of crazy theories lately and everyone can think what they want but when you start turning everything into a metaphor you can trick yourself into believing something that isn't there. Honestly if you just think about the relationship between Marika and maliketh it makes sense that the statue is Marika or that it symbolizes their relationship. An emperyan being protected by her shadow bound wolf. Side question... where the hell are miquella and malenias shadows? Ranni has blaidd, Marika has maliketh but they don't ever mention the other two
If anything I believe Marika after supplanting the Hornsent as their God Saint took the The Lands Between by force. Before her The Beastmen and Drakes ruled from the east of Charrons rest to the north of Calid, then the rest of the land reigned by the Storm Lords in the south and above them the dominant Nox Empire basically controlling 90% of the lands between at one point with the Astrolgers, Giants and Zamor left to contend with the Drake culture for the scraps left in the North. The human peoples including the Hornsent likely all descend from the very ancient Rauh mother civilization and the giants and trolls the prehistoric Titan civilization we see evidence of in their giant impossibly big atchitecture as well as The Giants Forge and their actual corpes in Calid. These ancient empires were the originators of all arts and design in the lands between. Their great divergences likely a result of interbreeding with the Shamen culture. I believe the Hornsent were far from the only culture to plunder the Shamen people or ally with them.. so you are definitely close with the Beastmen connection you made with the statue. I believe Placideusax was possibly Marika's first lord. I believe the reason why there are Drakes and Elder Dragons is because of Marikas ability to perform rebirthing. Elden Dragons if you will.. This is why the Drakes and namely Bale rebel against the Elder Dragons and why the early Erdtree Empire helps. If you look closely you can see that the living dragons are basically gold plated on their underside, it could also explain why they can become human temporarily. I believe Godwyn's father may even be Placideusax which would explain his affinity for dragon arts and why there is literally no connection between him and Godfrey in the entire game. The God portion of the name means nothing Marika named him Godfrey his real name is not even close...lol I believe after the stalemate with Bale Marika dumped Placideusax for Godfrey and this is why the Elden Dragons then rebel themselves against Marika and it takes the Dragon Prince Godwyn to sue for peace after a relatively small incursion by Placideusax loyalists. The twin bird is likely even older than any Dragon by far and possibly more closely associated with whatever the crucible actually is. Unfortunately people are going to have to get rid of alot of pre DLC dogma. The Dragons are not analogous to Dinosaurs and the "Elder Dragons" are actually the younger more derived form. Its obviously when you think about it logically. The Beast and Drakes likely also interbred with the alien Shamen peoples aswell changing them and granting them intelligence but the Elder Dragons came much much later the two largest and likely oldest dragons are both Drakes and one is literally called the mother of all dragons(likely not literal but still) Dude slow down... dont be like all those other opportunists that post straight up garbage theories just because they sound interesting. It defeats the whole purpose of this community when people cant even gatekeep themselves from posting bad data..
He got too many heads to be a “twin” the rest are in Bayle . Plus it seems the bird golems in the dlc resemble the relief of the twin bird and they are modeled after the death/ twin birds of im not mistaken. So I am leaning towards the idea that the twin bird is something else. However I think it is possible that it is a relative or distant descendant of dragons. Respectfully.
I always wondered where did the shadow tree sit in the real world? It’s like theses two massive trees just sitting in the sky then all of a sudden one disappeared and nobody noticed or talked about it it’s so strange
Well we don't know how long the shadow lands have been vieled for really, could be there were those who questioned it at the time, but that was so far long ago that no one is still around who remembers the before the before?
@@svenstevenson2245yea that makes sense but it’s strange how none of the people that was there during the beginning have no mention of it either also I am surprised that no one ever mentions the parallels between the nameless king from dark souls and Godwyn do to their connection with dragons and all records of them in the family being erased from surface level it’s just weird that there is no castle or anything above ground that is dedicated to godwyn at all like which makes me think that if the shadow tree can be sent to one dimension could all of Godwyns stuff be sent to another? Like how nameless king has his own place away from everyone
Is it possible that its like a marika/godfry thing like placidusax was the godfrey of a god that became a god like marika and like how miquella tried to
I like the theory but I think the part where this kind of misses for me has to do with putrescence. Those stone "ships", the large coffins, contain the remains of the dead that were meant to burned withghost flame. But then ghost flame lost its power and all those bodies seeped out, over time, and became putrescence. St.Trinia's dream is probably the only peace they can kind find. So there was a period when hornsent culture was alive and well, where ghost flame was beined used. Then something happened during their civilization that robbed that power f ghost flame away, or even stopped the ghost flame rituals from taking place. But the power of that ghost flame would be rediscovered when the band of the hawk start to burn their own dead. If placidusax is the twin bird, then they are worshipping him for something he doesn't contribute to since nothing of burning the dead takes place in Farum Azula, probably because being rendered into ash removes you from the cycle of rebirth....which is why those peasant mobs in the lake stand where the dragon agheel strikes, to be burned into ash by him. Which...again...no ghost flame discovery despite the number of people who would have been burnt to ash by dragons, hence fulfilling the creation of ghostflame.
Thank you! That’s some great points, I missed the part where it said that about the coffins, that’s totally on me. You make some really interesting points dude! Awesome stuff!
@@theemeraldgecko310 But I do think the premise of your theory is a very solid one. It is just one of the parts of the lore where I feel they went "Wait. let's take this item description out so the player base never has a real answer" xD
So does that mean the Stone Coffin Fissure is just one big crematorium with Ghostflame at the bottom? That would explain the presence of some sort of liquid down there despite no possible sources of water aside from rainfall. The stone coffins reminds me of the granite sarcophagi in Egypt where they entombed Apis bulls, but instwad being in the shape of galleys instead of a box.
@@mmyr8ado.360 if you look at the arena for the knight down there, you can see putrescence oozing out of those stone coffins. The outcome of when Ghost flame lost its power, that is why they were not burned. There is an item that explains when and how Ghostflame lost its power. It is a pale blue right? The item Grave Violet says that IT is the color of ghost flame and it is VIOLET, a combination of red and light blue. So when Marika removed Destined Death OR when Maliketh sealed it….Ghostflame went from violet to light blue and the start of putrescence began
Don't you think it makes more sense for the twinbird of death to be Placidusax's fled god? Surely Farum Azula was built prior to Bayle and Placi's fight, so why would they depict their Dragon Lord with two heads?
I like your enthusiam, but it doesn't quite line up. Now.. Dragon daddy was an elden lord who's "god had fled", and we just don't know much of anything about this (lands between typ god, not an outer god). One of the lore sifters has suggested that the twin birds is the outergod, with a sort of yin/yang duality between the seperate aspects of the outer god. I dunno, like death birds for dealing with the dead and a storm lord to keep order.
Yeah.. it is there. It is kinda mentioned in one of the deathbird related items (the staff I think) that priests to the deathbirds got 'rewarded' by becoming part of the deathbirds. Their wings are not wings.. its more like a tear in reality.
Basilisks and Torrent all have 4 legs a head, 2 eyes, and a tail, therefore Torrent is related to the basilisks! I've seen some stretches... This is olympic level stretching. I am not even sure where to begin with why this actually makes zero sense.
TL;DR: Fun theory, but this is too much of a reach and some arguments are flimsy, at best. The dragons are explicitly described to be "gravel" or "stone" not just white like the death birds. The death birds are connected to a previous civilization that burned bodies in ghostflame on their stone ships. Not to mention deathbirds are fatally weak to holy, which Placidusax resists by 40% - because he was elden lord, and only the greater will has those, outer gods stay outer for a reason - they have limited influence in this plane. Lastly, we do get a description of the twin bird outer envoy, because it was outright described as a bird with black plumage, and a red and blue head respectively. You didn't mention that at all, because it doesn't fit with your theory.
It says they are white winged, which they are, not what those wings are made out of :) Aye I didn’t mention it but saying I didn’t talk about it due to the theory is just as much reaching dude. IMO it actually adds to it, red in media is often used to symbolise female and blue male. Thanks for the feedback!
@@theemeraldgecko310 I think you would be hard pressed to find an in-game item that states that. However, I don't have that issue. The twinbird shield explicitly says it had black plumage, a red head and a blue one. Which is further supported by the red and blue spear talismans. Just to be clear, I think you are onto something. Farum Azula and the dethbirds are connected at the hip, I just think you found a red herring in Placidusax and was misled early in your investigation.
Man I'm so damn tired of theory crating for Elden Ring. The absolute bonkers conclusions people come up with to try and fill gaps of information kills my soul a little.
@@theemeraldgecko310 Brother your whole theory is that Placcy is the Twin Death bird envoy to an Outer God. If we use the GW as a parallel that would mean the following. GW = Outer God Elden Beast = Twin Death Bird (both are envoys to their respective outer god) The issue with this just on the surface is that Placcy is considered the true first Elden Lord. Now, if I were to grant your premise in some respects I would say that Placidusax could have been Elden Lord to a vessel that housed the Elden Ring, similar to Godfrey/Marika I would be more on your side here. I do not think Placidusax 'birthed' the damn death birds. Trying to fill the gap in information here with the idea that in the files Placidusax has gendered heads is literally attempting to put a shoe on a foot that doesn't fit and ignores the other examples of how an Elden Lord/Consort and God dynamic works within the established universe. It is likely, in this framework, that Placidusax was Elden Lord/Consort to the Twin Bird which was the vessel/envoy and 'God' of the Lands Between+ during the Prehistoric era of these lands prior to the Erdtree.
at this point, when it comes to Elden Ring, I think any of these theories are probably right. We definitely didn't get much about the Gravebirds/Deathbird connections. Im still just pissed that GRR Martin had direct hands in the ending of Elden Ring. If there is any author that can ruin a story its GRR Martin.
have you noticed the death bird magic using dragon is turning into a death bird ? idk if its that or a death bird becoming a dragon but its clearly some half creature
I like your content a lot, but this one seems way off. None of the conclusions make sense. First off, he didn't have two heads, he had four or potentially more. Two, the death birds probably came before him, before the first elden ring. More of a "natural order" type thing. A god birthed from the process of death. Next, maleketh is likely from farum azula originally. It was originally a beast man City. It is full of beastman graves, and was likely their capital. So malaketh is hiding there because it is familiar. If anything, the dragons were likely the squatters, as they don't tend to build anything, just occupy. When the dragons became to chosen of the first elden ring, the other races allied with them as lower races. The dragons would have no interest in pretending to be birds.
I mean IMO they do. Yes but that happened so long ago and him being in a stagnant state, no one has seen him for eons, stories are bound to be mixed up? I concur he probably is from farum azula dude. On the other point I truly think they might have, we know they can transform into human esc creatures, plus considering how intelligent they seem to be, I think it would be unlikely they didn’t help build farum azula!!
@@theemeraldgecko310 I personally don't like to go with "stories getting mixed up" as it's a video game and the lore objects are the main story telling device. If we introduce "stories changing over the years", then most of the lore objects are meaningless. The dragons don't seem to care about building anyone anywhere else. Just about every other dragon is just sitting around in nature. I think we have to get too loose with the lore for your theory to be plausible, but I respect the time you put into it. Looking forward to your next video!
About the idea of an "original" Elden Ring predating the "current" one from the Greater Will: the Elden Ring came to be with the arrival of a golden star and a beast, both being sent by the Greater Will. This text makes very clear that the Elden Ring is uniquely tied to the actions of the Greater Will. There was no prior Elden Ring.
@@theemeraldgecko310 In this case i have prof that chickens are t-rexes due to their biological nature that evolved from tyranosaurus rex. But exacly archeology shows that birds are very close to lizards in geneaology. So chicken is a lizard and it has wings. so chickens are dragons? some myths shows that chickens breathe fire specially from eastern culture where dragons are very popular but doesn't share "lizard"family. They have it's own specimen table that belongs only to chickens and dragons are evoled from fishes, First dragon ascended from golden carp that swim up to a waterfall and god ascended it to first dragon. it's prof for a chicken to be a carp or a dragon? t-rex is a fish then. that's the theory that goes so crazy and far afar from reality.
@@Gore-okamiyou missed the point of that point entirely.. cultures tend to take different aspects from different animals and through time it seems the result of that is sometimes dragons
can someone please go look at the skeletons in farum azula , ive been commenting for so long on so many videos about how the skeletons in the walls are beast men but the ones on display are BOVINE in nature. they have flat teeth and cow like skulls. that HAS to mean something , and theres so many random skulls in game that lok EXACTLY LIKE TORRENT. theres even a hornsent specimen that i swear to fucking god is just a giant torrent, whatever he is. theres something about them i just know it , they are burried with gold. sacrifices ? honorable pets animals of worship ? why the hell are they so ritually burried , and why are the beast men used in the walls ? it doesnt even look like a burial its like the poor creatures are howling to escape their stoney prisons, while something akin to the species of a prey animal is gently set to rest with the lord of dragons. what the fuck ??? it all makes no sense and i love it
Hey everyone! This video was beyond lovely to make, hope you do all enjoy!
DON’T YOU DARE GO HOLLOW!
The discord for the channel: discord.gg/xv8t5bFSzd
if placidusax was anything like Radagon when his god was around, he's just one plottwist away from suddenly having birdheads rather than dragon heads.
Honestly great point lmao
This is an interesting idea. I do like the connection with the Twinbirds carvings in Farum Azula. I just see one BIG problem. There are tons and tons of beastmen bodies buried in the walls and floors. Deathrite Birds are all about Ghostflame burning of the dead but it seems Farum Azula practiced a very different burial rite. Something to consider.
Placidusax doesnt have just two heads though, he had 5
edited: he actually had 5 heads, not just 4
I talked about it in the video, he lost them to Bayle in his fight
@@theemeraldgecko310 The additional heads he used to have contradict the idea of him being the twinbird though. Why would he be given that name? It would be demeaning.
He had 5
He had 5 and on the talisman he is depicted with 4
@@ETBrooD I mentioned it in the video, it must have come about after his 3 other heads were removed :)
Maliketh is not just a squatter in Farum Azula. He's the last practitioner of the beastmen's religion. As such, Farum Azula is closer to an ancestral home for him. This explains how he knows about it.
As I was thinking about 'are there any four headed birds or pics of four birds anywhere in the game', possibly from an older time, it suddenly struck me that Placidusax has two heads and Bayle has three.
There are the Two Fingers and the Three Fingers, and the three is banished to the bottom of the Subterranean Shunning-Grounds.
Interesting.
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9:17 Farum Azula doesn't exist beyond space and time, it exists in the present timeline. You can see it from the Lands Between.
Only Placidusax exists beyond space and time. Farum Azula is just floating over the sea, likely because it's being carried by powerful winds.
Agreed! Considering it is stated to be though, maybe the one we go to is different?
Actually, about that, there is a ton of evidence that the shadow lands exist/existed in the "ocean" area of the center of the main game map, had seen a few videos that had a "combined" map and the two maps do fit together quite well given.
Specifically they covered the fact that in the combined map, the shadowlands dragon area would have been close to calid, specifically the beastial sanctum which btw, has tons of fallen ruins bits from farum azula.
Moreover there is a lot of evidence that farum azula would have originally been located in that area too. At least before it became air borne.
Jagged peak was in dragon barrow hence the large concentration of lesser drakes and Bayles arena is the basement of Placidusax arena
Another theme I see ignored in Placidusax lore is, yes he has 2 heads, but he used to have 5; Kinda like a hand made of a dragon if you imagine knuckles as his chest, fingernails as face. I feel like that's a huge blind spot in lore in a world full of finger creatures. Unless there's a vid I've yet to see
I haven’t seen anything on this either! Awesome stuff!
That’s a very interesting detail to bring up, nice
Analogues of Pre-Erdtree vs Erdtree eras:
Twin Bird = Elden Beast (the Outer God's Envoy)
Placidusax = Godfrey (Elden Lord / Consort)
Fled god / missing Queen (perhaps Gloam Eyed Queen) = Marika
This would explain the entire pre-Erdtree forces: Death Birds spawned from the Twin Bird (a la Metyr and the Fingers/Finger Creepers) and using Ghost Flame, Ancient Dragons & Drakes come from Placidusax's ilk and use Dragon Flame, and the Gloam Eyed Queen spawning the Godskins and using Black Flame. The Banished Knights represent humans serving the dragons and the royal court of the Gloam Eyed Queen + Placidusax. The Beastmen represent the earliest form of human and the clergy (mankind evolved from beasts), all while still serving the dragons (the Tarnished Archaeologist covers this). There are beastman clergy statues in a lot of places in Farum Azula that look just like Gurranq and that flank a dragon statue. Gurranq was originally a beastman clergy member until getting converted into Marika's shadow by Marika's Two Fingers, thus taking on the form of Maliketh. Also, the reliefs you mentioned depict the Wormfaces, not the Lampreys. The statue of the girl surrounded by 3 wolves is most likely the Queen of that era: the Gloam Eyed Queen, not Marika.
Anyway, Bayle, for some unknown reason, decides that the opportunity is ripe to attack Placidusax, which results in Placi not being able to defend the Gloam Eyed Queen and thus presenting the opportunity for Marika to dispatch the Gloam Eyed Queen, seize power, and summon her own Outer God's Envoy (the Elden Beast) at the Divine Gate and usher in the age of the Erdtree.
The only issue is the reconciliation of Melina vs the Gloam Eyed Queen, since Melina is the daughter of Marika but is believed to also be the Gloam Eyed Queen due to the Frenzied Flame ending. Perhaps Marika took the throne from her daughter in order to usher in the age of the Erdtree. This whole tale was written by George R. R. Martin, who loves to borrow heavily from the drama of European monarchies from the Middle Ages to the Early Modern period (500 AD - 1800 AD). Mothers of monarchs taking control of a kingdom from a child is something I could see him borrowing from and weaving into his stories.
Alright, this is mad, but if you’re into something, this would have interesting implications for the timeline.
Additionally, with Placidussax’s heads all being of different genders and personalities, what if he was in a Marika-Radagon situation but all selves are present at once through all the heads?
I hadn’t thought of it like that, but I think you’re mega onto something!
The Emerald Gecko, nice content I loved it
Eyyyyy thanks so much bro ❤️
The fact that Placidusax lost his other heads contradicts the idea that he is the twinbird. Why would he be named twinbird? The reference to his two remaining heads would be seen an offense to his legacy, so if anyone called him a twinbird it would have to be a foe, not a friend. It would be mockery.
I talked about this in the video, we really can’t know him enough to have that impression, he could have taken it as scars of war?
@@theemeraldgecko310 Twindragon would be the name then, not twinbird. It's demeaning to call the first Elden Lord a bird, and to name him after his failure against Bayle.
@@ETBrooDagain imo you’re looking at it from how our history would look at it. Dragon culture could be completely different+ what I meant was it’s been so long since anyone has seem him, it would be understandable for people to not fully grasp what the Twinbird actually is
If anything, those white winged envoys could have been the bird warriors. Even if they're not, its more likely them than a giant dragon that is clearly a dragon and no one would confused a dragon with a bird.
I always wondered why his body resembled their disfigured form or vise versa and his secondary small pair of wings remind me of theirs
I also feel like there’s a link between bale and placudisax and mhog and Margott.
Respectively one has black curled horns, the other is hairy and stone like.
Good spot! You might be onto something!
Maybe they are really twins like Morgott and Mogh, and the "fled god" is their parent/parents?
What I'm really confused over is the relationship between the beastman society and the ancient dragons, more specifically Placidusax. Was this society built on the ruins of dragon society? Was Placidusax aready entombed in the storm when beastmen took it upon themselves to be priests of their dragon lords? Are the active ancient dragons just witnesses to this hijack or the instigators of the cult?
I’m confused as well! I like to think they were apart of his age, saying that it’s hard to say for definite
Is it possible that placidusax, as the first lord of the land between, was tasked with maintaining DEATH as the single law of lands and when Marika removed the rune of death from the Elden ring, she disconnected placidusax from his outer god leaving him abandoned?
I haven’t heard this one before, but I certainly like it! Awesome idea!
Fyi, the greater will gave life to everything when it shattered itself. The outer gods are the remnannce of the dying great one. Metyr and the elden beast were tasked to take the life of everything in the lands between and send that force back to the cosmos for the greater will to take back (it gains it's life back through the death of the life it created. This is why there are multiple trees in the elden beast fight, each tree is a planet that was consumed)
I believe the dragons and death birds praise deaths essence once life is taken (the black flame it makes), considering that dragons are mostly stone and go against time/death. They're basically priests for death after the death rune was taken by marika
Idk man.... there's been a lot of crazy theories lately and everyone can think what they want but when you start turning everything into a metaphor you can trick yourself into believing something that isn't there. Honestly if you just think about the relationship between Marika and maliketh it makes sense that the statue is Marika or that it symbolizes their relationship. An emperyan being protected by her shadow bound wolf. Side question... where the hell are miquella and malenias shadows? Ranni has blaidd, Marika has maliketh but they don't ever mention the other two
If anything I believe Marika after supplanting the Hornsent as their God Saint took the The Lands Between by force.
Before her The Beastmen and Drakes ruled from the east of Charrons rest to the north of Calid, then the rest of the land reigned by the Storm Lords in the south and above them the dominant Nox Empire basically controlling 90% of the lands between at one point with the Astrolgers, Giants and Zamor left to contend with the Drake culture for the scraps left in the North. The human peoples including the Hornsent likely all descend from the very ancient Rauh mother civilization and the giants and trolls the prehistoric Titan civilization we see evidence of in their giant impossibly big atchitecture as well as The Giants Forge and their actual corpes in Calid. These ancient empires were the originators of all arts and design in the lands between. Their great divergences likely a result of interbreeding with the Shamen culture. I believe the Hornsent were far from the only culture to plunder the Shamen people or ally with them.. so you are definitely close with the Beastmen connection you made with the statue.
I believe Placideusax was possibly Marika's first lord.
I believe the reason why there are Drakes and Elder Dragons is because of Marikas ability to perform rebirthing. Elden Dragons if you will..
This is why the Drakes and namely Bale rebel against the Elder Dragons and why the early Erdtree Empire helps. If you look closely you can see that the living dragons are basically gold plated on their underside, it could also explain why they can become human temporarily. I believe Godwyn's father may even be Placideusax which would explain his affinity for dragon arts and why there is literally no connection between him and Godfrey in the entire game. The God portion of the name means nothing Marika named him Godfrey his real name is not even close...lol
I believe after the stalemate with Bale Marika dumped Placideusax for Godfrey and this is why the Elden Dragons then rebel themselves against Marika and it takes the Dragon Prince Godwyn to sue for peace after a relatively small incursion by Placideusax loyalists.
The twin bird is likely even older than any Dragon by far and possibly more closely associated with whatever the crucible actually is.
Unfortunately people are going to have to get rid of alot of pre DLC dogma.
The Dragons are not analogous to Dinosaurs and the "Elder Dragons" are actually the younger more derived form. Its obviously when you think about it logically.
The Beast and Drakes likely also interbred with the alien Shamen peoples aswell changing them and granting them intelligence but the Elder Dragons came much much later the two largest and likely oldest dragons are both Drakes and one is literally called the mother of all dragons(likely not literal but still)
Dude slow down... dont be like all those other opportunists that post straight up garbage theories just because they sound interesting.
It defeats the whole purpose of this community when people cant even gatekeep themselves from posting bad data..
He got too many heads to be a “twin” the rest are in Bayle . Plus it seems the bird golems in the dlc resemble the relief of the twin bird and they are modeled after the death/ twin birds of im not mistaken. So I am leaning towards the idea that the twin bird is something else. However I think it is possible that it is a relative or distant descendant of dragons. Respectfully.
I respect where you’re coming from dude and you could be right dude
I always wondered where did the shadow tree sit in the real world? It’s like theses two massive trees just sitting in the sky then all of a sudden one disappeared and nobody noticed or talked about it it’s so strange
You make a really good point, I’m not sure dude!
Marika did place a veil so not many may have seen the second tree.
Well we don't know how long the shadow lands have been vieled for really, could be there were those who questioned it at the time, but that was so far long ago that no one is still around who remembers the before the before?
@@svenstevenson2245yea that makes sense but it’s strange how none of the people that was there during the beginning have no mention of it either also I am surprised that no one ever mentions the parallels between the nameless king from dark souls and Godwyn do to their connection with dragons and all records of them in the family being erased from surface level it’s just weird that there is no castle or anything above ground that is dedicated to godwyn at all like which makes me think that if the shadow tree can be sent to one dimension could all of Godwyns stuff be sent to another? Like how nameless king has his own place away from everyone
The next dlc should add water! We already got weakass bubbles
Is it possible that its like a marika/godfry thing like placidusax was the godfrey of a god that became a god like marika and like how miquella tried to
or the twinbird was the outergod that left the lands between. aka god of placi
Could be but imo it seems more likely that placi boy is
I think the Twinbird is a good candidate for Placidusax's God
"Squatters' rights" haha
I like the theory but I think the part where this kind of misses for me has to do with putrescence. Those stone "ships", the large coffins, contain the remains of the dead that were meant to burned withghost flame. But then ghost flame lost its power and all those bodies seeped out, over time, and became putrescence. St.Trinia's dream is probably the only peace they can kind find. So there was a period when hornsent culture was alive and well, where ghost flame was beined used. Then something happened during their civilization that robbed that power f ghost flame away, or even stopped the ghost flame rituals from taking place. But the power of that ghost flame would be rediscovered when the band of the hawk start to burn their own dead.
If placidusax is the twin bird, then they are worshipping him for something he doesn't contribute to since nothing of burning the dead takes place in Farum Azula, probably because being rendered into ash removes you from the cycle of rebirth....which is why those peasant mobs in the lake stand where the dragon agheel strikes, to be burned into ash by him. Which...again...no ghost flame discovery despite the number of people who would have been burnt to ash by dragons, hence fulfilling the creation of ghostflame.
Thank you! That’s some great points, I missed the part where it said that about the coffins, that’s totally on me. You make some really interesting points dude! Awesome stuff!
@@theemeraldgecko310 But I do think the premise of your theory is a very solid one. It is just one of the parts of the lore where I feel they went "Wait. let's take this item description out so the player base never has a real answer" xD
@epiccthulu thanks! I don’t know if they did it intentionally but I get you!
So does that mean the Stone Coffin Fissure is just one big crematorium with Ghostflame at the bottom? That would explain the presence of some sort of liquid down there despite no possible sources of water aside from rainfall.
The stone coffins reminds me of the granite sarcophagi in Egypt where they entombed Apis bulls, but instwad being in the shape of galleys instead of a box.
@@mmyr8ado.360 if you look at the arena for the knight down there, you can see putrescence oozing out of those stone coffins. The outcome of when Ghost flame lost its power, that is why they were not burned.
There is an item that explains when and how Ghostflame lost its power. It is a pale blue right? The item Grave Violet says that IT is the color of ghost flame and it is VIOLET, a combination of red and light blue. So when Marika removed Destined Death OR when Maliketh sealed it….Ghostflame went from violet to light blue and the start of putrescence began
Don't you think it makes more sense for the twinbird of death to be Placidusax's fled god? Surely Farum Azula was built prior to Bayle and Placi's fight, so why would they depict their Dragon Lord with two heads?
The only part that makes me not think this, is the fact nothing suggests the god had twin heads! Maybe it’s additions added!
Godfrey was elden lord marika was the god. Placidusax as he is elden lord should be the same with the twin bird.
Tho can't we say that the twin bird was Placidussax god and have pretty much the same result?
To be fair you could!
But imo the other side of it seems more likely
I like your enthusiam, but it doesn't quite line up. Now.. Dragon daddy was an elden lord who's "god had fled", and we just don't know much of anything about this (lands between typ god, not an outer god). One of the lore sifters has suggested that the twin birds is the outergod, with a sort of yin/yang duality between the seperate aspects of the outer god. I dunno, like death birds for dealing with the dead and a storm lord to keep order.
Am I crazy or am I seeing a soul army of creatures looking like the Inquisitors on the wings of the Death bird?
You’re not!!! I thought I was as well! It’s there!
Yeah.. it is there. It is kinda mentioned in one of the deathbird related items (the staff I think) that priests to the deathbirds got 'rewarded' by becoming part of the deathbirds. Their wings are not wings.. its more like a tear in reality.
5:31 apart from that one edge lord in the basement
AYO WHAT IS GOING ON HERE
Basilisks and Torrent all have 4 legs a head, 2 eyes, and a tail, therefore Torrent is related to the basilisks!
I've seen some stretches... This is olympic level stretching. I am not even sure where to begin with why this actually makes zero sense.
Doesnt the Twinbird Kiteshield say that the Twinbird is an Outer God and the Death Bird's mother?
No it just says their it’s envoys :)
Vyke getting the lotion ready
Ayo
What's the Gecko doing now? 👀More Gecko things.
Yes sirrr😋
Don’t let bro cook ever again
THE KITCHEN WILL NEVER LEAVE MINE HANDS
Mental gimnastics awards
TL;DR: Fun theory, but this is too much of a reach and some arguments are flimsy, at best.
The dragons are explicitly described to be "gravel" or "stone" not just white like the death birds. The death birds are connected to a previous civilization that burned bodies in ghostflame on their stone ships.
Not to mention deathbirds are fatally weak to holy, which Placidusax resists by 40% - because he was elden lord, and only the greater will has those, outer gods stay outer for a reason - they have limited influence in this plane. Lastly, we do get a description of the twin bird outer envoy, because it was outright described as a bird with black plumage, and a red and blue head respectively. You didn't mention that at all, because it doesn't fit with your theory.
It says they are white winged, which they are, not what those wings are made out of :)
Aye I didn’t mention it but saying I didn’t talk about it due to the theory is just as much reaching dude. IMO it actually adds to it, red in media is often used to symbolise female and blue male. Thanks for the feedback!
@@theemeraldgecko310 I think you would be hard pressed to find an in-game item that states that. However, I don't have that issue. The twinbird shield explicitly says it had black plumage, a red head and a blue one. Which is further supported by the red and blue spear talismans.
Just to be clear, I think you are onto something. Farum Azula and the dethbirds are connected at the hip, I just think you found a red herring in Placidusax and was misled early in your investigation.
Man I'm so damn tired of theory crating for Elden Ring. The absolute bonkers conclusions people come up with to try and fill gaps of information kills my soul a little.
I’d agree if there wasn’t quite a lot of evidence:)
@@theemeraldgecko310 Brother your whole theory is that Placcy is the Twin Death bird envoy to an Outer God. If we use the GW as a parallel that would mean the following.
GW = Outer God
Elden Beast = Twin Death Bird (both are envoys to their respective outer god)
The issue with this just on the surface is that Placcy is considered the true first Elden Lord. Now, if I were to grant your premise in some respects I would say that Placidusax could have been Elden Lord to a vessel that housed the Elden Ring, similar to Godfrey/Marika I would be more on your side here.
I do not think Placidusax 'birthed' the damn death birds. Trying to fill the gap in information here with the idea that in the files Placidusax has gendered heads is literally attempting to put a shoe on a foot that doesn't fit and ignores the other examples of how an Elden Lord/Consort and God dynamic works within the established universe.
It is likely, in this framework, that Placidusax was Elden Lord/Consort to the Twin Bird which was the vessel/envoy and 'God' of the Lands Between+ during the Prehistoric era of these lands prior to the Erdtree.
Now this might be liquor talking Randy Bo-Bandy but what if Placidusax and Metyr Mother mated? Hiccup
AHHHH THAT IS NOT A PICTURE I WANTED TO IMAGINE MY EYESSS
@@theemeraldgecko310 lol
This is the biggest reach in the history of life itself.
I mean NOT really
Placidusnacks, lord of Snickers!
FARTHER TO TWIX
Ballsax the ally of two moons.
@rafsandomierz5313 ayo whose twin moons is he doing?
at this point, when it comes to Elden Ring, I think any of these theories are probably right. We definitely didn't get much about the Gravebirds/Deathbird connections. Im still just pissed that GRR Martin had direct hands in the ending of Elden Ring. If there is any author that can ruin a story its GRR Martin.
I do get what you mean on the first part, but GRRm is a legend dude. Unless I missed something?
am i getting click baited again? answer : si
Nope.
have you noticed the death bird magic using dragon is turning into a death bird ? idk if its that or a death bird becoming a dragon but its clearly some half creature
I like your content a lot, but this one seems way off. None of the conclusions make sense. First off, he didn't have two heads, he had four or potentially more. Two, the death birds probably came before him, before the first elden ring. More of a "natural order" type thing. A god birthed from the process of death. Next, maleketh is likely from farum azula originally. It was originally a beast man City. It is full of beastman graves, and was likely their capital. So malaketh is hiding there because it is familiar. If anything, the dragons were likely the squatters, as they don't tend to build anything, just occupy. When the dragons became to chosen of the first elden ring, the other races allied with them as lower races. The dragons would have no interest in pretending to be birds.
I mean IMO they do. Yes but that happened so long ago and him being in a stagnant state, no one has seen him for eons, stories are bound to be mixed up? I concur he probably is from farum azula dude. On the other point I truly think they might have, we know they can transform into human esc creatures, plus considering how intelligent they seem to be, I think it would be unlikely they didn’t help build farum azula!!
I appreciate the feedback dude thank you for the kind words🙏
@@theemeraldgecko310 I personally don't like to go with "stories getting mixed up" as it's a video game and the lore objects are the main story telling device. If we introduce "stories changing over the years", then most of the lore objects are meaningless.
The dragons don't seem to care about building anyone anywhere else. Just about every other dragon is just sitting around in nature. I think we have to get too loose with the lore for your theory to be plausible, but I respect the time you put into it. Looking forward to your next video!
About the idea of an "original" Elden Ring predating the "current" one from the Greater Will: the Elden Ring came to be with the arrival of a golden star and a beast, both being sent by the Greater Will. This text makes very clear that the Elden Ring is uniquely tied to the actions of the Greater Will. There was no prior Elden Ring.
After the dlc a lot of item descriptions have to be looked at again due to Metry! Plus fromsoft loves riddles I feel there’s a lot more to this!
Biggest reach of the year.
No.
Yes.
@@theemeraldgecko310 fair enough lmao
Edit: but no
But placidusax has 4 heads doesnt he?
He used to :) now they’ve been ripped off
Hahahahaha what!?
What an incredibly bad theory
to absurd.
Did you watch the video?
@@theemeraldgecko310 In this case i have prof that chickens are t-rexes due to their biological nature that evolved from tyranosaurus rex. But exacly archeology shows that birds are very close to lizards in geneaology. So chicken is a lizard and it has wings.
so chickens are dragons?
some myths shows that chickens breathe fire specially from eastern culture where dragons are very popular but doesn't share "lizard"family.
They have it's own specimen table that belongs only to chickens and dragons are evoled from fishes, First dragon ascended from golden carp that swim up to a waterfall and god ascended it to first dragon.
it's prof for a chicken to be a carp or a dragon? t-rex is a fish then.
that's the theory that goes so crazy and far afar from reality.
@@Gore-okamiyou missed the point of that point entirely.. cultures tend to take different aspects from different animals and through time it seems the result of that is sometimes dragons
Game lore so bad that fans lose their sanity.
Did you watch the video?
can someone please go look at the skeletons in farum azula , ive been commenting for so long on so many videos about how the skeletons in the walls are beast men but the ones on display are BOVINE in nature. they have flat teeth and cow like skulls. that HAS to mean something , and theres so many random skulls in game that lok EXACTLY LIKE TORRENT. theres even a hornsent specimen that i swear to fucking god is just a giant torrent, whatever he is. theres something about them i just know it , they are burried with gold. sacrifices ? honorable pets animals of worship ? why the hell are they so ritually burried , and why are the beast men used in the walls ? it doesnt even look like a burial its like the poor creatures are howling to escape their stoney prisons, while something akin to the species of a prey animal is gently set to rest with the lord of dragons. what the fuck ??? it all makes no sense and i love it