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Some interesting points, but you didn't mention the sculptor part correctly. Well, he didn't run away, quite the contrary, he was so fascinated that he built a statue that had both personas. And in the Boss fight we don't face Radagon. Radagon possessed glinstone spells, and arcs of light.... Instead we face Radagon's dead body being manipulated by the Elden Beast Edit: I have a good answer for almost everything. For example: I know who killed Marika. (Marika was imprisoned by the Elden Beast, but was killed with a Spear of Destined Death. I know who did it, and when, and it bothers me that no one else noticed)
@@theemeraldgecko310 As no one has ever talked about it (or at least I have never seen anyone talk about it) you can already imagine it as just a theory: There are only a few creatures capable of using Destined Death, and the Elden Beast is not one of them (other than that it seemed very clear to me that the Beast wanted to imprison Marika alive). It always bothered me, since the first time I played, why does Melina ask the Tarnished to take her to the tree? And when she finally gets there, she changes her tune, Her initial goal had nothing to do with the thorns, and her sentence implies that we cannot cross, but she can, and then decides to help us burn the Tree. I always considered it a game tool. To ease our path. But I think she went through the thorns with her incorporeal form, talked to Marika, and then killed her. If we consider that Melina is Gloomed Eye, we can assume that she perhaps kept a small amount of Destined Dearh even in her incorporeal form. Maybe to use it one last time. And that's why she wants to get to the tree so much. To put a peaceful end to hermother... or maybe get revenge.
Everytime I think of this guy, I think "ugh, what a homewrecker. Now I'm angry. Only some Christmas prawns will soothe me now." Seriously. Every single time.
2:13 Marika doesn't fight because she wanted this to happen. She cursed Hewg with immortality to smith the god slaying weapon just as she did curse us with immortality to kill everyone. Radagon is the half that wants the Golden Order to persist, Marika wants it to end. Radagon and the Elden Beast within are the embodiment of the concept of order. Radagon IS Marika's prison. I assume that Marika too has been betrayed by the fingers and has been promised powers when she ascended, not knowing that she was meant to become the beast's vessel. And I also believe that her shaman traits are what caused all problems --> instead of fully turning into Radagon, they instead blended together. Marika was suposed to cease to exist after ascension. Just like Miquella ceased to exist when he abandoned his flesh in order to become a singular god.
But Miquella did not ceased to exists. He just shredded his empyrian flesh, same as Ranni, just through different and much harder process. His flesh was his birth right, legacy and his link to Fingers, Elden Beast and Greater Will. He could not become god free of these powers and maintain his corporeal prison.
Miquella did not ceased to exist, he stripped of his flesh to do so, even abandon his other half, St. Trina. Probably Marika did the same with Radagon, that is why they generate their children and he became second Elden Lord
I think Miquella and St Trinas situation mirrors and also parallels Marika and Radagon in stark contrast. St Trina begs us to kill Miquella as shes dying before us, not out of anger, but because she knows divinity will be a prison for him. Marika wanted freedom from the Greater Will and EB and shattered the ER, then Rads comes along and A) tries mending the Ring and B) crucifies the Marika self. They're polar opposites. It also begs to question "what" aspect of Marika became Radagon. Like we know Miquella abandoned his "love" which was St Trina. I think, Radagon is Marikas' "sin" red has been pseunomenous with sinning, just an idea.
Or the Order/loyalty, since Radagon's title is "of the Golden Order" and Marika's minor erdtree was of "Gold without order". Also "love" is a emotion/quality and "sin" isn't.
That would also explain why Miquella choose to split himself from Trina. He saw how a disagreement with ones other half can lead to trouble and tried to get ahead of it
According to the Minor Erdtree Incantation: "Secret incantation of Queen Marika. Only the kindness of gold, without Order." So hers is the kindness, and his is the order.
@WheatDos Could be, when Miquella separated his body and spirit on the crosses, he put things like fears and concerns away too, so sin wouldn't be too far out there. I could see Order being it too. And considering Marika DIDNT separate from Radagon by the time she was at the gates of divinity. Perhaps that messed up the process and the Elden Beast was able to use Radagon as well, even if he was Elden Lord, since him and Marika share the same body the Greater Will could manipulate him if Marika was showing signs of treachery. And perhaps Miqulla saw this and figured "OK, I gotta separate my alter ego before becoming a god." Which he still messes up, since making an age if kindness and compassion, you'd think you'd need love in there lol. It just reminds of "the sins of thy father/mother" repeating in a cycle I also know Radagon got the red hair wayyy after in the battle with the giants, and that was during Godfreys time, so Marika must have split her body then and there either before or after slaying the Fell God
THANK YOU. There’s always seemed like two different types of Marika, after this video though I’m quite convinced it’s not actually her during this change in personality but Radagon!
this! also the basic ending is the good ending and ill die on this hill! changing the elden ring to "fix" it all has negative effects on either the lands between or its people. frenzied flame ending i dont think is the evil ending many think it is, still objectively bad though. then there is Rani ending which IS the evil ending (i know rani simps can start). Marika made the best of a shitty situation, she had to claw her way to godhood, then was in the process of removing the greater will from the picture. every other person makes this harder especially rani and radagon
Well no…. Cause marika did what she did cause that’s what she wanted. She only wanted to jump ship after godwyn died and everything turned to a shit show in the world. You don’t get points for resigning after you failed and crippled the company. She gets an appropriate amount of blame I think
@@davidmorcombe6779 Agree. Rani and Radagaon just did what they had to do to claim power. We don’t know how long Radagon was in control of Marika, which I think really sprang up after he left Rennala, but maybe he orchestrated that whole thing from the beginning. Seems like he had power over both Rennala and Marika. I think Marika’s will was long gone and usurped by literally the “Greater Will” which possibly forced her to partner with Radagon (which is how I see it).
@TheBlondeBroadGamer I actually don't think radagon was in control for all that long (relatively speaking) maybe since the shattering at most. And not in full control as I believe marika is guiding us with grace throughout the game
Yes, yes, yes. She WANTS to be free, and the only way for that to happen is for someone to come along and kill Radagon. That’s why the tarnished were brought back, that’s why Melina helps you, that’s why she abandons/ hides Messmer. She’s done and just wants to be put out of her misery. It also makes for an interesting juxtaposition with her son Miquella and his other half. While Marika had another half that became even more corrupted and power-hungry than she was, St. Trina understood the trap that godhood represented, and wanted none of it for Miquella.
You're making me think that Radagon is merely a puppet being controlled 100% by the outer will after Marika started to stray from their ideal order. The shadowy parts of his missing body very much remind me of the shadowy giants we see in the nightreign trailer too
Now this is something I can get behind!!! I hadn’t really come up with a reason WHY radagon does what he does, but after reading this it suddenly makes a lot more sense!
Technically yeah, during the fight he's little more than a puppet. Think, everything we know about him is about he learned both incantations and sorceries and he learned things like Light-Rings. Yet, in the fight he use nothing of that, just throw piece of runes. Also, his japanese name is not Of the Golden Order, but Radagon, Golden Order. And the Elden Beast is the incarnation of the Order, so in that moment we're fighting Radagon, incarnation of the Golden Order. Yet, this happens only now. Elden Beast became the Elden Ring long time ago and until now it was just a tool of dragons, then hornsents and maybe other cultures before Marika, and people changed, modified it and decided the Order of the world multiple times, but only this time Marika did something no one expected: Shatter it. Elden Beast is hurt, we can see her belly cracked, and what an injured creature do? Defend itself. Even because the Greater Will, that is not an Outer God, usually let Gods do the sh*t they wants with the Elden Ring. Literally Marika changed the order of life and death and GW was "Ok", if it even noticed that.
@@theemeraldgecko310 Though the Greater Will hasn't been around in a very very long time, so it won't be the Greater Will that's controlling him. It could be Metyr pulling the strings with all her fingers, based on what she thinks the Greater Will would have wanted. What I think is strange is the duality of gold and shadow (shadow of the erdtree). Radagon's body is literally made of shadow, while Marika would be the golden god. The parts of him that isn't "flesh" is there in shadow form. Is he responsible for the entire shadowcurse that locked away parts of the lands between, or was his merging with Marika a byproduct of creating the shadow curse?
Another good theory! The duality of godhood in Elden Ring, god/lord, mirrors the duality of ideology/praxis in philosophy. The God is the philosophical ideas, the Lord is the way by which they are made to happen in reality. In Miquella/Radahn's case, the Order proposed is something like, "Universal compassion as enforced by overwhelming violence." Marika/Radagon's Order is something like, "Peace and safety for all, except those who wronged me, enforced by strength and genius." Both Orders are examples of the praxis being mismatched with the ideology. Radagon doesn't need to be in control of Marika to manifest her edicts incorrectly, if even they ARE being carried out incorrectly. It's arguable, even, that in order to manifest her edicts, Radagon's actions were necessary (not justified, just essential to achieving those ends.) Just as Radahn is Miquella's necessary avatar to force everyone in the world to be good, Radagon is Marika's intentions carried to their logical conclusion, which is why she tries to break the Elden Ring in the first place after seeing the fallout from her own ideology made manifest by Radagon's machinations. The whole story is about Marika having a crisis of belief in her own ideas.
I really like this take! I also believe that when Marika begins to "search the depths of the Golden Order" is when the true divide between Marika and Radagon happens. Marika found hypocrisy and lies at the end of her search(perhaps finally realizing that she has been following orders from puppeteer fingers who really have no connection to the Greater Will) while Radagon's search for understanding lead to the creation of Golden Order Fundamentalism. Marika, through her research, became a non-believer in her own faith while Radagon became a STAUNCH believer and used his newfound "knowledge" to justify the existence of the Golden Order through immutable Laws of the Unviverse/Existence(Causality and Regression). Laws which actually very clearly contradict the stagnant and unchanging nature of the Golden Order. This game is about so, so, SO much. Evolution, abandonment, childhood trauma, generational trauma, culture, societal upheaval and change, social injustice, duality of mind, the fleeting nature of the body, the malleability of the soul, and last but not least, the justifications we give ourselves and others to believe or not to believe in a higher power.
"So, she was obsessed with the moon. Her house was sinking into this swamp, and I mean there's an entire lake of rot down there. I got dudes running around all over the place looking like the Burger King mascot in bathrobes, everyone's hooked on 'Glintstone' which is basically magic space crank, and then there's the crawling hand things all over the yard. When I found out Marika was single again, it was basically just an excuse to get the hell out of there. I'm gonna fix that Elden Ring thing and see if I can remove the rune of 'crazy' from it- because that Carian chick has a head full of it." -Radagon, probably
this is exactly y I said Radagon came with the elden beast to tame the new god that has been created which is marika. Radagon is not mentioned ever until the golden order came into place and the one thing he is said to be is the loyal hound of the golden order which implies to me that he is conceived at the beginning of the golden order the same time when the elden beast pulls up
which is also y he came back when Godfrey left because of Marika's plan to destroy the elden ring radagon being apart of the monster that is inside of marika the elden beast basically panicked and had him pull up to make sure she stays in check and marika knew this which is why she told Godfrey to die and come back butttt the player gets in the way of Godfrey's mission and kills him right before he can do his job right out the door
I must have commented I don't know how many times on this channel that the only thing Miquella and Marika have in common that no one else shares is that they grew a tree... Marika with the remains of the crucible, and it made Radagon grow inside her and that's why he has red hair, while Miquella grew his tree thanks to her sister's rot and her spirit, which gave Saint-Trina (who rests in a lake of putrescence, the rot of sleeping flesh...) I think that over time, Marika and Radagon hated each other because they were so opposed... Marika killed the giants that Radagon thought he was, he flirted with Renalla rather than conquering Liurna, and I even think that it was Radagon who had Godwyn killed, thinking he was a traitor in the service of the dragons.
I have considered for a while the possibility that some stuff said or done by Marika was Radagon. The first thing that really made me kind of question it was The spoken echo of Marika near where we find the golden order seal. That particular one and possibly the one about "the erdtree governs all" feel like they could have actually been quotes of radagon Also minor erdtree seems to be the only incantation that mentions Marika by name (correct me if I'm wrong) and it talks about the "kindness of gold without order." Radagon consistently seems to be about order and the majority of things relating to the Golden order are things that are definitely after he began his tenure as Elden Lord Great video
Taking Japanese, all churches uses the same tone sand the same way of talking she uses, a lot of times very superb and ... except one. The one that talks about "Look inside the Order without blind faith." And Radagon si very coerent with these words.
@@thecommentguy9380 More probably it was Radagon. Even just the fact the dialogue says Comrades it sounds more close to someone who fought between the people than the Goddess who rule all of them. Also, all the Look better at Golden Order sounds of Fundamentalist, something more connected to Radagon than Marika.
I'm still thinking along the theory that the emperyikns are the one who can split their soul/self down into different personalities of their self. The recall from the maiden, (can't remember her name) she also says "oh leal hound of the golden order" suggesting that he split from her so that he could spread the golden orders power over the landscape between.
I definitely think you’re on the right track, also fits with the idea he’s always been apart of her? That is a great point, I completely missed that part! That suggests Radagon (maybe) became the dominant personality AFTER some of the wars? Merry Christmas!
@theemeraldgecko310 I took it, that after ragadon split from marika, because he was the hound of the golden order, marika fell away or like how a religious person can fall away from their religion, and it's there, but not important.
@@theemeraldgecko310 @lashed1980 About that dialogue, the last part says "Let's break it", that in japanese could be read even as "Let's break us". Kinda sure this means that dialogue happened few moments before the Shattering of the Elden Ring. Also, there is a very important thing to consider about that dialogue. In Japanese, there is no Leal, and she calls him Dog, not Hound, using a very derogatory tone and talking using a generic You, the one you use for a servant. She totally disrespects him and treats him like an inferior.
Another missed detail is that Marikas statue appears as if she's a flower. Radogan is seen with Thorns which are directly related to the Cardinal Sin. The earliest possible showing of Radogan was at the Giants Mountain in a nearby Church. The Giants Whip suggests and hints Radogan maybe related to the giants because of his red hair. Marikas actions could be blamed of Radogan which means Radogan was the one to wipe out all the giants. The nearby Flame Monks are always adorned in red and casting thorn sorceries. So again Thorns + Red Hair + Giants and they all tie back into Radogan.
“O Radagon, leal hound of the Golden Order. Thou'rt yet to become me. Thou'rt yet to become a god. Let us be shattered, both. Mine other self.” I was talking about this one. Is this not a single conversation?
notice at 6:45 that Radagon actually ermeges from a tree in the statue while Marika does not. Maybe he got created when the erdtree got created and maybe its a persona the greater will forced on marika at the same time
could also explain xhy godrey got banished, because when tree got created there was radagon and marika didnt know what to do so she banned him/radagon banned m. Im sure yo ucan make some lore around that
It’s clear to me that Marika is essentially in suspended animation as a form of punishment by the Elden Beast/Greater Will because of the shattering. For her transgressions against the greater will and its systematic need for order, she has been placed in excruciating purgatory and her entire world in stagnation; beyond her influence. And Radagon being the only animated half of the rebus left would only ever become active when challenged for divinity because if never challenged then nothing will ever rise and institute a better order. Radagon’s perspective is also clearly that they despite all thats been done must still fulfill their duties as Lord. This is probably what their children most admire in them, that unwavering devotion to secure life for one’s group.
He didn't leave her alone though he also protected her by learning her people his rune pattern which successfully sealed away the academy and left her a dog trained in combat. So it's not like he left her there unprotected, recklessly to die. He planned all the way to protect her though his means weren't as effective as Ranni's. And as to why he left Renalla is still a mystery his motivation might never be known nor rational either.
@@rafsandomierz5313 Because in the meta-narrative the Carians/Rennala are allegories for institutions of science/empiricism, which is an essential part of the Golden Order. The Golden Order is not merely religion, it is Western Philosophy in its entirety, which uses science and empiricism as the basis of its praxis. Radagon, of course, would want to protect the logical justification for the Golden Order's existence, even as the Golden Order abandons it for GO fundamentalism. Basically, western philosophy abandoned science because science has no moral framework, and western philosophy can't be held up by science alone.
How do you know Radagon wasn't controlled by Marika? Radagon had Rahdan, Ranni and Rykard with Renalla before Marika's betrayal. Meaning the timeline of Radagon goes way back. I think Marika used on Radagon the same spell Miquella used on Rahdan to controll him. Marika forced Radagon to have Mesmer in order to steal his heritage and become a god. Radagon has always been the one chosen by the Greater Will. I think Marika had Godwyn with the Gloamed Eyed Queen as Radagon. Radagon is the one that makes Empyreans Demigods. Miquella wanted Godwyn as King Consort but his soul was killed by Ranni, leaving Rahdan as the true heir of the lands between other than Mesmer. Mesmer and Rahdan trained together, implying that Rahdan is older than we think. What do you think?
Honestly I don’t, there just seemed like two different options. 50/50!! I love this idea and honestly it makes a lot of sense. I have been stumped regarding the age of Radahn and it’s implications, I think you’ve cracked it!
@theemeraldgecko310 Rahdan is the only Empyrean that came back from the dead. Almost as if Radagon's gift (Great Rune of Rebirth) was Rahdan. The whole tournament was to kill Rahdan so he can be reborn. Miquella knew this (and much more) therefore sent Malenia to kill him. Miquella followed Marika's footsteps, implying Marika did the same to Radagon who was once reborn as well.
Here's a strange idea that this gave me: what if one has 'two fingers' for the combined soul? But more importantly, what if the Greater Will is what separates/adds to someone to have that additional person in an attempt for control? And maybe this is why the Elden Beast looks like a big ol' thumb: cause Marika is gone.
With the DLC I still think Radagon was separate at some point but was fused with Marika. Maybe it was Marika's final original order to bring the tarnished back hoping they could separate her from Radagon.
Miquella's, Shamans' and the living jars' lore made clear that, in fact, Marika and Radagon were separeted beings during the golden order era, after Godfrey. As Miquella did to St. Trina, Marika herself did to strip away Radagon from her body, that is why they have Miquella and Malenia and Radagon was able to join the Carians even when Marika still exists. The throne in Leydell was not empty during this time, Marika was there with Godfrey. In the end, Radagon returned to Marika but as her husband.
This is really neat, as it makes the Shattering an event where Marika used all her strength to try and separate herself form Radagon and the Elden Beast. It turns Marika's "thou'rt yet to become me" into a sort of "fuck you, you haven't taken me over yet you bastard" type of memory. However I wouldn't say their objectives ever truly diverged until Marika banished Godfrey, as the game would be a little less interesting if it was Radagon all along who ordered the genocide of the Fire Giants, the subjugation of Caria, etc. Marika, high on having attained strength and avenging her people against the hornsent, wanted to be sure nobody would fuck with her again, hence her conquerings.
This also fits because in the dlc we learned the elden beast is acting on its own accord and that the greater will isn't actually communicating to it. when you go to the third church of marika its insinuated that Marika had already begun to question the "Greater will" and she states that she was going to learn all there is about the golden order instead of following it blindly. I believe she made a ton of terrible decisions but it was 100% Radagon/Elden Beast that influenced said decisions by claiming it was to the behest of the greater will. Once she started resisting and eventually shattered it? Radagon taking over her body completely checks out. That makes her literally caged in her divinity like what St.Trina warned Miquella about. nice video.
maybe when we see them at the boss fight marika is already dead but radagon still lives? that could explain why they only move when ginger mode turns on
This also gives credence to Miquellas decision to abandon Trina. Having seen his parents toxic partnership and how Radagon took over, he could have been wary of the same thing happening to himself
Personally I agree with a lot of what you have been saying. The difference is that I think Radagon has always wanted to become marika and became her after separating from renalla. Maybe he was the reason why marika and Godfrey parted ways. There has to be a reason why both their bodies are half made when we fight radagon. I just think he has marika trapped so he can become her and mend the ring that she broke. Having her new husband’s children kill marika’s most prominent child could be a political power move
He's something that I've been thinking about when it comes to Radagon and the Elden beast. When we defeat Radagon, the Elden Ring in his body disappears and emerges as the elden beast. Now we all know that Marika is the vessel for the elden ring, but what if Radagon was the Elden beast all along. Manipulating Marika, establishing the golden order, and so on. Would also explain why she was trying to destroy the elden ring. She was trying to destroy Radagon all along.
@@theemeraldgecko310I believe both Ranni and Marika represent body autonomy in a way. They both choose death before giving up their agency for another god to take control of them.
I think that each candidate, either Empyrean or Elden Lord, is actually granted a Great Rune when they are granted demigod status. Marika would have the Great Rune of Life, and her Order is one of eternal life, making her Marika the Eternal. Radagon is the Lord of Stagnation/Stasis, as his Great Rune is the Cross-hatching behind the Elden Ring keeping it together, and he seeks to keep the current Order the way it is, despite decay having seeped in. Also, Radagon sucks, became Elden Lord after Godfrey had already taken care of all opposition to the Erdtree and torments everyone else because he wants to keep living.
I think they needed each other to become one god. The fingers didn’t like what she was doing and Radagon agreed. The fingers and radagon turned against her and to get back at them she broke the Elden ring and calls for all her kids and all the tarnished to come “Fix” the golden order I.e. replace radagon with a new half she can to their god hood . If it wasn’t us it would’ve been godfrey
Good theory but let's remember that characters know Marika is "now nowhere to be found". If Radagon was the main personality all this time along why bothering with the imprisonment of Marika. (It could still be that he was very angry for the shattering and, with the help of the Elden Beast, it self-crucified after blocking with barbs the entrance to the Erdtree). I agree that Radagon came to be some time before Marika became a God. Maybe the treason itself was the existance of Radagon, hidden away, to replace the previous God/Elden Lord (or hornsent's candidate to be God) in the SoTE story trailer. "An affair from which gold arose"
I think all of this because Messmer was reffered as "an older brother to the Lion". If he was older than Radahn, then, it came to be before Radagon/Rennala children but we don't really know. Another fact is that the blessings that Marika bestowed to Messmer were made for him only, as for him being the first child of Marika. Also, Marika probably veiled the Lands Of Shadow as soon as she became God but still, we don't really know when the epuration by Messmer began, because crusades are not something you can set up without a strong belief in your religion and I'm sure that takes time even when you're sure God exists and is visible to your followers
Hi! I believe than Radagon has a past that's different than Marika and there is a lot of evidence pointing towards him being related with the Misbegoten and their recentment, a lot of the misbegoten weapon talk about this. Also, I think there is a lot of content related to Radagon in the Weeping Peninsula, particularly around Morne Castle. To me its evident that Radagon at some point was a very famous blackmisth, he might had been Hewg's cousin, another character tied directly to Marika. Goldmask also talk about this issue, arguing than the soul of Marika has 2 rithms, one being a wild one, which is another clear refference to the misbegoten nature of Radagon.
Some interesting points, but you didn't mention the sculptor part correctly. Well, he didn't run away, quite the contrary, he was so fascinated that he built a statue that had both personas. And in the Boss fight we don't face Radagon. Radagon possessed glinstone spells, and arcs of light. Instead we face Radagon's dead body being manipulated by the Elden Beast
The Great Radagon... Full of Ambition... Marika's other half... When he came about, Marika has already so much established herself, this made him insecure and wanted more. I agreed...
I wonder how you account for the division between the Two Fingers and the Golden Order? When you give Corhyn the Two Fingers pray book he calls it " heresy." I don't think it is a stretch to see Radagon as a type of "Red Dragon" who deceived Marika. I always wonder if the art of spirit transfer was used to combine Radagon and Marika. Either Radagon is a spirit from a past age, maybe the Elden John statues, there is a "husk" of Radagon's old body, or he is a manifestation of Marika's soul. Nice video. I've come to really enjoy your channel!
2:04 i mean, radagon is her consort,which is why he's fighting for her, like like how we dont fight miquella directly, we fight radahn. I dont think Marika is a good person at all, she's the pull trying to pull a lot of the strings in the background by manipulating and using different characters
I agree about the majority of the video, and have felt this was the case for a long time now, but I have always felt line "Thou’rt yet to become me. Thou’rt yet to become a god" was more of a bitter rebuke than you portray here. It always came off as an either a cold warning against attempted treachery or a heated response to an actual betrayal. This would only make sense to me if it came after his return from Caria and the establishment of GO Fundamentalism. My guess is that there was a silent schism within Leyndell’s religious and political leadership, with Fundamentalist choosing Radagon’s regression + causality over Marika’s abundance + blessing, and that very heterodoxy created a gap that widened until he finally usurped and imprisoned her - triggering The Shattering.
Marika and radagan have always been one person I’m pretty sure that was explained all true emperions have to sides like mikali they just never seperated completely which made one of them (radagan) able to be controlled by the greater will even though the other (marika) was still a God able to destroy and create! Which is why mikali got rid of his weaker side that wouldn’t become a God and would hold him back enabled to be controlled
Marika is being presented in a crucified manner in comparison to land of shadow she’s presented as a caring giving god Leda mentions how we are there on common reasons but for different purposes This is a theme through out the game Common interests Different outcomes
I think its possible---and I'm not entirely convinced myself--that Radagon was justifiably imprisoning Marika as punishment for her many genocidal, world conquering crimes. Melina's line about the world being beautiful the way it is resonates with me; life continues, and since none of the endings seem to honor that, it almost seems like the status quo is the best option for the Lands Between. The God that exemplifies Order is kept from instilling any more harm upon the world, Those Who Live in Death suffer persecution only by a small minority while simultaneously having developed a culture of their own, all of the divine elements that Marika suppressed are finding their way back into the world, and all the Demigods are past the point of usefulness without the help of our Tarnished. Anything we do to become Elden Lord upsets that balance and begins the cycle over again. Maybe its naive, but the world as we find it seems to be a better place than any of the worlds offered by any of the endings. Once we've gotten rid of every Demigod we can, the best option seems to be to leave the world as it is, with Marika and the Elden Beast imprisoned.
I don't like this theory because it takes agency from Marika 🤔But it's true that Shattering was just a big scale divorce and their kids act accordingly.
radagons origin is marika. yes hes loyal to the golden order but they are two completely separate personalities. marika was punished by the greater will NOT radagon. thats why her hair quicklt shifts and becomes radagon to defend the golden order.
We have to think of this as a form of body horror/spit personality in a way. You have Marika, a god, which has lived possibly decamillennials, decides to "grow" a male side and experiece life differently. Marika was always in control. This game is a great exedcise in metaphysics and the most important TIME as the engine of creation. Eventually a plant on earth eill grow legs and walk. How long? millions of years for us, a split second for a god. Maybe, why would Marika decide to experiment with another form of self. I think here is a human condition question only, maybe to disappear in obscurity for the sins of her past in a better body and ideals as a man? Who tf knows. Primarily Elden Ring is a story about TIME
Radagon IS Marika though 🤨 thats like saying Stalin isnt responsible for the atrocities of the USSR that's actually Joeseph. Also if anything id think Radagon was the one trying to hide and repair Marikas reputation from her own horrible actions. That said the reason I think there are split item descriptions when it comes to Marika is because half of it is the official narrative and the other half is the truth of her actions.
We all say that marika is the mastermind anf that she is the original. But what if Radagon is the first one, and then he was able to transform into a female. What if Radagon is the mastermind all along.
Tbh radagon jacked the greater will order if you pay attention all of our obstacles were set in place by radagon but I don't think radagon was evil maybe power hungry
Marika was possessed the entire time I keep saying this and were are starting to come around to it as a community but listen Radagon of the GOLDEN ORDER It’s not that he’s a piece of shit it’s that Marika was never supposed to be in this position SHE WAS USED AS A PUNISHMENT ON THE HORNSENT Which is probably one half of the the Draconian race Who are descendent a of dragons
Technically, she is. Precisely, the Elden Ring became part of the Vessel that keeps it, as we see their back cracking while they shatter/repair it. This is also why Radagon probably wanted to repair it... you know, no one wants to die because your crazy half decided to k*ll herself, you and put the world into a shattered chaos.
Or maybe thi suggests that rykard inherited an aspect of his father, feeding himself to the snake, maybe he fed himself to the gloam eyed queen and became part of her
radagon was planted in marika to control her by the greater will when she stole the ascension from the hornsent. the old farum azula elden ring was then replaced by the elden beast. either that or radagon and marika was the result of an alchemical ribus after a successfull pot shaman saint was made by the bonny village potentates
It's... complicated. They're the same person but they're not. They represent opposing forces that inhabit one body. One breaking the Ring, other repairing it. One calling you to the Erdtree, other barring entry to the Erdtree. One being crucified and very much out of combat, other.
Yep, if the theory is true it changes the common preconception regarding the whole game, because without Marika (or radagon) elden ring as we know it doesn’t happen :)
Stop cutting/changing dialogues for your own personal theories...marika says "my other self" not "half" and later she says...."lets both be shattered" so, this is clearly pre destruction of the ring...if you did it on purpose to make your theory fit, its wrong...if you dont do it on purpose, now you know...
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Some interesting points, but you didn't mention the sculptor part correctly. Well, he didn't run away, quite the contrary, he was so fascinated that he built a statue that had both personas. And in the Boss fight we don't face Radagon. Radagon possessed glinstone spells, and arcs of light....
Instead we face Radagon's dead body being manipulated by the Elden Beast
Edit: I have a good answer for almost everything. For example: I know who killed Marika. (Marika was imprisoned by the Elden Beast, but was killed with a Spear of Destined Death. I know who did it, and when, and it bothers me that no one else noticed)
@ right, I must have misremembered which is totally on me, I’m very sorry dude. Oooooo please do tell!!
@@theemeraldgecko310 As no one has ever talked about it (or at least I have never seen anyone talk about it) you can already imagine it as just a theory:
There are only a few creatures capable of using Destined Death, and the Elden Beast is not one of them (other than that it seemed very clear to me that the Beast wanted to imprison Marika alive).
It always bothered me, since the first time I played, why does Melina ask the Tarnished to take her to the tree? And when she finally gets there, she changes her tune, Her initial goal had nothing to do with the thorns, and her sentence implies that we cannot cross, but she can, and then decides to help us burn the Tree.
I always considered it a game tool. To ease our path.
But I think she went through the thorns with her incorporeal form, talked to Marika, and then killed her.
If we consider that Melina is Gloomed Eye, we can assume that she perhaps kept a small amount of Destined Dearh even in her incorporeal form. Maybe to use it one last time. And that's why she wants to get to the tree so much. To put a peaceful end to hermother... or maybe get revenge.
Everytime I think of this guy, I think "ugh, what a homewrecker. Now I'm angry. Only some Christmas prawns will soothe me now." Seriously. Every single time.
LMAOOOOOOOOOO
2:13 Marika doesn't fight because she wanted this to happen. She cursed Hewg with immortality to smith the god slaying weapon just as she did curse us with immortality to kill everyone.
Radagon is the half that wants the Golden Order to persist, Marika wants it to end. Radagon and the Elden Beast within are the embodiment of the concept of order. Radagon IS Marika's prison. I assume that Marika too has been betrayed by the fingers and has been promised powers when she ascended, not knowing that she was meant to become the beast's vessel. And I also believe that her shaman traits are what caused all problems --> instead of fully turning into Radagon, they instead blended together. Marika was suposed to cease to exist after ascension. Just like Miquella ceased to exist when he abandoned his flesh in order to become a singular god.
But Miquella did not ceased to exists. He just shredded his empyrian flesh, same as Ranni, just through different and much harder process. His flesh was his birth right, legacy and his link to Fingers, Elden Beast and Greater Will. He could not become god free of these powers and maintain his corporeal prison.
Miquella did not ceased to exist, he stripped of his flesh to do so, even abandon his other half, St. Trina. Probably Marika did the same with Radagon, that is why they generate their children and he became second Elden Lord
@@lincolnprestes7617 well, Marika did not do it, as they still occupy same body in endgame.
I thought we fought Radagon because he is the current Elden Lord and we are attempting to become the new Elden Lord.
Yeah they just state that he was a “great champion” he became 2nd Elden Lord
Also, Marika is probably very dead
@@cjr1382 Very, very dead.
I think Miquella and St Trinas situation mirrors and also parallels Marika and Radagon in stark contrast.
St Trina begs us to kill Miquella as shes dying before us, not out of anger, but because she knows divinity will be a prison for him. Marika wanted freedom from the Greater Will and EB and shattered the ER, then Rads comes along and A) tries mending the Ring and B) crucifies the Marika self. They're polar opposites.
It also begs to question "what" aspect of Marika became Radagon. Like we know Miquella abandoned his "love" which was St Trina. I think, Radagon is Marikas' "sin" red has been pseunomenous with sinning, just an idea.
Or the Order/loyalty, since Radagon's title is "of the Golden Order" and Marika's minor erdtree was of "Gold without order".
Also "love" is a emotion/quality and "sin" isn't.
That would also explain why Miquella choose to split himself from Trina. He saw how a disagreement with ones other half can lead to trouble and tried to get ahead of it
According to the Minor Erdtree Incantation:
"Secret incantation of Queen Marika. Only the kindness of gold, without Order." So hers is the kindness, and his is the order.
@WheatDos Could be, when Miquella separated his body and spirit on the crosses, he put things like fears and concerns away too, so sin wouldn't be too far out there. I could see Order being it too. And considering Marika DIDNT separate from Radagon by the time she was at the gates of divinity. Perhaps that messed up the process and the Elden Beast was able to use Radagon as well, even if he was Elden Lord, since him and Marika share the same body the Greater Will could manipulate him if Marika was showing signs of treachery. And perhaps Miqulla saw this and figured "OK, I gotta separate my alter ego before becoming a god." Which he still messes up, since making an age if kindness and compassion, you'd think you'd need love in there lol. It just reminds of "the sins of thy father/mother" repeating in a cycle
I also know Radagon got the red hair wayyy after in the battle with the giants, and that was during Godfreys time, so Marika must have split her body then and there either before or after slaying the Fell God
I think we blame Marika way too much and she is trying to break away from the golden order and Radagon. Spot on video
THANK YOU. There’s always seemed like two different types of Marika, after this video though I’m quite convinced it’s not actually her during this change in personality but Radagon!
this! also the basic ending is the good ending and ill die on this hill! changing the elden ring to "fix" it all has negative effects on either the lands between or its people. frenzied flame ending i dont think is the evil ending many think it is, still objectively bad though. then there is Rani ending which IS the evil ending (i know rani simps can start). Marika made the best of a shitty situation, she had to claw her way to godhood, then was in the process of removing the greater will from the picture. every other person makes this harder especially rani and radagon
Well no…. Cause marika did what she did cause that’s what she wanted. She only wanted to jump ship after godwyn died and everything turned to a shit show in the world. You don’t get points for resigning after you failed and crippled the company. She gets an appropriate amount of blame I think
@@davidmorcombe6779 Agree. Rani and Radagaon just did what they had to do to claim power. We don’t know how long Radagon was in control of Marika, which I think really sprang up after he left Rennala, but maybe he orchestrated that whole thing from the beginning. Seems like he had power over both Rennala and Marika. I think Marika’s will was long gone and usurped by literally the “Greater Will” which possibly forced her to partner with Radagon (which is how I see it).
@TheBlondeBroadGamer I actually don't think radagon was in control for all that long (relatively speaking) maybe since the shattering at most. And not in full control as I believe marika is guiding us with grace throughout the game
The way it's phrased is also telling. It's Radagon is Marika. Not Marika is Radagon.
Exactly!!
Ive always said that marika is imprisioned by radagon. Why would hewg be at the round table AT MARIKAS BEHEST TO CRAFT A GOD SLAYING WEAPON.
Yes, yes, yes. She WANTS to be free, and the only way for that to happen is for someone to come along and kill Radagon.
That’s why the tarnished were brought back, that’s why Melina helps you, that’s why she abandons/ hides Messmer. She’s done and just wants to be put out of her misery.
It also makes for an interesting juxtaposition with her son Miquella and his other half. While Marika had another half that became even more corrupted and power-hungry than she was, St. Trina understood the trap that godhood represented, and wanted none of it for Miquella.
You're making me think that Radagon is merely a puppet being controlled 100% by the outer will after Marika started to stray from their ideal order. The shadowy parts of his missing body very much remind me of the shadowy giants we see in the nightreign trailer too
Now this is something I can get behind!!! I hadn’t really come up with a reason WHY radagon does what he does, but after reading this it suddenly makes a lot more sense!
Technically yeah, during the fight he's little more than a puppet. Think, everything we know about him is about he learned both incantations and sorceries and he learned things like Light-Rings. Yet, in the fight he use nothing of that, just throw piece of runes. Also, his japanese name is not Of the Golden Order, but Radagon, Golden Order. And the Elden Beast is the incarnation of the Order, so in that moment we're fighting Radagon, incarnation of the Golden Order.
Yet, this happens only now. Elden Beast became the Elden Ring long time ago and until now it was just a tool of dragons, then hornsents and maybe other cultures before Marika, and people changed, modified it and decided the Order of the world multiple times, but only this time Marika did something no one expected: Shatter it. Elden Beast is hurt, we can see her belly cracked, and what an injured creature do? Defend itself. Even because the Greater Will, that is not an Outer God, usually let Gods do the sh*t they wants with the Elden Ring. Literally Marika changed the order of life and death and GW was "Ok", if it even noticed that.
@@theemeraldgecko310 Though the Greater Will hasn't been around in a very very long time, so it won't be the Greater Will that's controlling him. It could be Metyr pulling the strings with all her fingers, based on what she thinks the Greater Will would have wanted.
What I think is strange is the duality of gold and shadow (shadow of the erdtree). Radagon's body is literally made of shadow, while Marika would be the golden god. The parts of him that isn't "flesh" is there in shadow form. Is he responsible for the entire shadowcurse that locked away parts of the lands between, or was his merging with Marika a byproduct of creating the shadow curse?
Another good theory! The duality of godhood in Elden Ring, god/lord, mirrors the duality of ideology/praxis in philosophy. The God is the philosophical ideas, the Lord is the way by which they are made to happen in reality. In Miquella/Radahn's case, the Order proposed is something like, "Universal compassion as enforced by overwhelming violence." Marika/Radagon's Order is something like, "Peace and safety for all, except those who wronged me, enforced by strength and genius." Both Orders are examples of the praxis being mismatched with the ideology. Radagon doesn't need to be in control of Marika to manifest her edicts incorrectly, if even they ARE being carried out incorrectly. It's arguable, even, that in order to manifest her edicts, Radagon's actions were necessary (not justified, just essential to achieving those ends.)
Just as Radahn is Miquella's necessary avatar to force everyone in the world to be good, Radagon is Marika's intentions carried to their logical conclusion, which is why she tries to break the Elden Ring in the first place after seeing the fallout from her own ideology made manifest by Radagon's machinations.
The whole story is about Marika having a crisis of belief in her own ideas.
Thank you! Great theory, I’m honestly blown away and I think Marika having an existential crisis is my new head cannon lmao
I really like this take! I also believe that when Marika begins to "search the depths of the Golden Order" is when the true divide between Marika and Radagon happens.
Marika found hypocrisy and lies at the end of her search(perhaps finally realizing that she has been following orders from puppeteer fingers who really have no connection to the Greater Will) while Radagon's search for understanding lead to the creation of Golden Order Fundamentalism.
Marika, through her research, became a non-believer in her own faith while Radagon became a STAUNCH believer and used his newfound "knowledge" to justify the existence of the Golden Order through immutable Laws of the Unviverse/Existence(Causality and Regression). Laws which actually very clearly contradict the stagnant and unchanging nature of the Golden Order.
This game is about so, so, SO much. Evolution, abandonment, childhood trauma, generational trauma, culture, societal upheaval and change, social injustice, duality of mind, the fleeting nature of the body, the malleability of the soul, and last but not least, the justifications we give ourselves and others to believe or not to believe in a higher power.
"So, she was obsessed with the moon. Her house was sinking into this swamp, and I mean there's an entire lake of rot down there. I got dudes running around all over the place looking like the Burger King mascot in bathrobes, everyone's hooked on 'Glintstone' which is basically magic space crank, and then there's the crawling hand things all over the yard. When I found out Marika was single again, it was basically just an excuse to get the hell out of there. I'm gonna fix that Elden Ring thing and see if I can remove the rune of 'crazy' from it- because that Carian chick has a head full of it." -Radagon, probably
This is my new head cannon, I can’t man😂
this is exactly y I said Radagon came with the elden beast to tame the new god that has been created which is marika. Radagon is not mentioned ever until the golden order came into place and the one thing he is said to be is the loyal hound of the golden order which implies to me that he is conceived at the beginning of the golden order the same time when the elden beast pulls up
which is also y he came back when Godfrey left because of Marika's plan to destroy the elden ring radagon being apart of the monster that is inside of marika the elden beast basically panicked and had him pull up to make sure she stays in check and marika knew this which is why she told Godfrey to die and come back butttt the player gets in the way of Godfrey's mission and kills him right before he can do his job right out the door
Until today I hadn’t heard the theory that Radagon was an agent of the greater will but it makes so much sense…
I love this lmaoo
Radagon and marika are two of the same, same as miquella and st trina. Radagon is the greater wills loyal dog for sure,, but his origin is of marika.
I must have commented I don't know how many times on this channel that the only thing Miquella and Marika have in common that no one else shares is that they grew a tree... Marika with the remains of the crucible, and it made Radagon grow inside her and that's why he has red hair, while Miquella grew his tree thanks to her sister's rot and her spirit, which gave Saint-Trina (who rests in a lake of putrescence, the rot of sleeping flesh...)
I think that over time, Marika and Radagon hated each other because they were so opposed... Marika killed the giants that Radagon thought he was, he flirted with Renalla rather than conquering Liurna, and I even think that it was Radagon who had Godwyn killed, thinking he was a traitor in the service of the dragons.
I have considered for a while the possibility that some stuff said or done by Marika was Radagon. The first thing that really made me kind of question it was The spoken echo of Marika near where we find the golden order seal. That particular one and possibly the one about "the erdtree governs all" feel like they could have actually been quotes of radagon
Also minor erdtree seems to be the only incantation that mentions Marika by name (correct me if I'm wrong) and it talks about the "kindness of gold without order." Radagon consistently seems to be about order and the majority of things relating to the Golden order are things that are definitely after he began his tenure as Elden Lord
Great video
tbf when you link what was spoken by Marika at the minor erdtree church and Gideon's outfit description, you can see a motive
Taking Japanese, all churches uses the same tone sand the same way of talking she uses, a lot of times very superb and ... except one. The one that talks about "Look inside the Order without blind faith." And Radagon si very coerent with these words.
@@themaniae4803 yeah that was the minor erdtree church. She wanted to know more about the Order, and Gideon apparently found the truth she sought
@@thecommentguy9380 More probably it was Radagon. Even just the fact the dialogue says Comrades it sounds more close to someone who fought between the people than the Goddess who rule all of them. Also, all the Look better at Golden Order sounds of Fundamentalist, something more connected to Radagon than Marika.
I'm still thinking along the theory that the emperyikns are the one who can split their soul/self down into different personalities of their self.
The recall from the maiden, (can't remember her name) she also says "oh leal hound of the golden order" suggesting that he split from her so that he could spread the golden orders power over the landscape between.
I definitely think you’re on the right track, also fits with the idea he’s always been apart of her?
That is a great point, I completely missed that part! That suggests Radagon (maybe) became the dominant personality AFTER some of the wars?
Merry Christmas!
@theemeraldgecko310 I took it, that after ragadon split from marika, because he was the hound of the golden order, marika fell away or like how a religious person can fall away from their religion, and it's there, but not important.
@@theemeraldgecko310 @lashed1980 About that dialogue, the last part says "Let's break it", that in japanese could be read even as "Let's break us". Kinda sure this means that dialogue happened few moments before the Shattering of the Elden Ring.
Also, there is a very important thing to consider about that dialogue. In Japanese, there is no Leal, and she calls him Dog, not Hound, using a very derogatory tone and talking using a generic You, the one you use for a servant. She totally disrespects him and treats him like an inferior.
Another missed detail is that Marikas statue appears as if she's a flower. Radogan is seen with Thorns which are directly related to the Cardinal Sin. The earliest possible showing of Radogan was at the Giants Mountain in a nearby Church. The Giants Whip suggests and hints Radogan maybe related to the giants because of his red hair. Marikas actions could be blamed of Radogan which means Radogan was the one to wipe out all the giants. The nearby Flame Monks are always adorned in red and casting thorn sorceries. So again Thorns + Red Hair + Giants and they all tie back into Radogan.
Now I feel real stupid, but at the same kind amazed at this, awesome catch!
I think that conversation takes place right before the shattering since she says “let us both be shattered, mine other half”.
If they were all one conversation then yeah! But I’m pretty sure they’ll all different conversations?
“O Radagon, leal hound of the Golden Order.
Thou'rt yet to become me. Thou'rt yet to become a god.
Let us be shattered, both. Mine other self.” I was talking about this one. Is this not a single conversation?
notice at 6:45 that Radagon actually ermeges from a tree in the statue while Marika does not. Maybe he got created when the erdtree got created and maybe its a persona the greater will forced on marika at the same time
could also explain xhy godrey got banished, because when tree got created there was radagon and marika didnt know what to do so she banned him/radagon banned m. Im sure yo ucan make some lore around that
bvut then again ytou have messmer and melina aswell so idk how it would fit in the timeline actually
The seduction……The betrayal……🤯
From which..gold.. arose 🤯
It’s clear to me that Marika is essentially in suspended animation as a form of punishment by the Elden Beast/Greater Will because of the shattering. For her transgressions against the greater will and its systematic need for order, she has been placed in excruciating purgatory and her entire world in stagnation; beyond her influence. And Radagon being the only animated half of the rebus left would only ever become active when challenged for divinity because if never challenged then nothing will ever rise and institute a better order. Radagon’s perspective is also clearly that they despite all thats been done must still fulfill their duties as Lord. This is probably what their children most admire in them, that unwavering devotion to secure life for one’s group.
8:50 it's nice to hear somebody finally quoting Tanith with word for word accuracy
Thank you thank you😂
0:23 Ok, but they’re ✨magic✨prawns
Gotta love a good bit of ✨magic✨
@@theemeraldgecko310 now I want some ✨magic✨ Scampi
@@wigglerwarrior3167don’t get me started 😫
He didn't leave her alone though he also protected her by learning her people his rune pattern which successfully sealed away the academy and left her a dog trained in combat.
So it's not like he left her there unprotected, recklessly to die.
He planned all the way to protect her though his means weren't as effective as Ranni's.
And as to why he left Renalla is still a mystery his motivation might never be known nor rational either.
Good point on the rune! But maybe the dog being left was the divorce settlement lmaooo
@@rafsandomierz5313 Because in the meta-narrative the Carians/Rennala are allegories for institutions of science/empiricism, which is an essential part of the Golden Order. The Golden Order is not merely religion, it is Western Philosophy in its entirety, which uses science and empiricism as the basis of its praxis. Radagon, of course, would want to protect the logical justification for the Golden Order's existence, even as the Golden Order abandons it for GO fundamentalism.
Basically, western philosophy abandoned science because science has no moral framework, and western philosophy can't be held up by science alone.
How do you know Radagon wasn't controlled by Marika? Radagon had Rahdan, Ranni and Rykard with Renalla before Marika's betrayal. Meaning the timeline of Radagon goes way back. I think Marika used on Radagon the same spell Miquella used on Rahdan to controll him. Marika forced Radagon to have Mesmer in order to steal his heritage and become a god. Radagon has always been the one chosen by the Greater Will. I think Marika had Godwyn with the Gloamed Eyed Queen as Radagon. Radagon is the one that makes Empyreans Demigods. Miquella wanted Godwyn as King Consort but his soul was killed by Ranni, leaving Rahdan as the true heir of the lands between other than Mesmer. Mesmer and Rahdan trained together, implying that Rahdan is older than we think. What do you think?
Honestly I don’t, there just seemed like two different options. 50/50!! I love this idea and honestly it makes a lot of sense. I have been stumped regarding the age of Radahn and it’s implications, I think you’ve cracked it!
@theemeraldgecko310 Rahdan is the only Empyrean that came back from the dead. Almost as if Radagon's gift (Great Rune of Rebirth) was Rahdan. The whole tournament was to kill Rahdan so he can be reborn. Miquella knew this (and much more) therefore sent Malenia to kill him. Miquella followed Marika's footsteps, implying Marika did the same to Radagon who was once reborn as well.
Radagon is Gunna confirmed.
So radagon was the bay harbor butcher all along?
He knows…
"Who's been messing up everything? It's been Radagon all along!
Who's been pulling every golden string? It's been Radagon all along!"
I’m in love with this shiza
This would explain why radagon had access to the unborn rune when he gave it to rennala🤔
EXACTLY!!!
This is pretty interesting.
Not to mention makes things between the two much more interesting, especially if Messmer is indeed Radagon's son.
Thanks! That’s a thought I hadn’t considered but you’re right!!
Here's a strange idea that this gave me: what if one has 'two fingers' for the combined soul? But more importantly, what if the Greater Will is what separates/adds to someone to have that additional person in an attempt for control? And maybe this is why the Elden Beast looks like a big ol' thumb: cause Marika is gone.
These right out of cosmic horror, love it lmao! Maybe the three fingers are two being gone freaky?
@@theemeraldgecko310 Or growth outside of the Greater Will's order. Two MAKING a third. etc.
OOOO YES THIS IS IT IMO. Love this
Very compelling and entertaining theory. Great video, thanks for sharing!
I’m glad you liked it! Thank you very much!
With the DLC I still think Radagon was separate at some point but was fused with Marika. Maybe it was Marika's final original order to bring the tarnished back hoping they could separate her from Radagon.
ooooooo I like this!! I think you’re probably spot on!
Miquella's, Shamans' and the living jars' lore made clear that, in fact, Marika and Radagon were separeted beings during the golden order era, after Godfrey. As Miquella did to St. Trina, Marika herself did to strip away Radagon from her body, that is why they have Miquella and Malenia and Radagon was able to join the Carians even when Marika still exists. The throne in Leydell was not empty during this time, Marika was there with Godfrey. In the end, Radagon returned to Marika but as her husband.
This is really neat, as it makes the Shattering an event where Marika used all her strength to try and separate herself form Radagon and the Elden Beast. It turns Marika's "thou'rt yet to become me" into a sort of "fuck you, you haven't taken me over yet you bastard" type of memory. However I wouldn't say their objectives ever truly diverged until Marika banished Godfrey, as the game would be a little less interesting if it was Radagon all along who ordered the genocide of the Fire Giants, the subjugation of Caria, etc. Marika, high on having attained strength and avenging her people against the hornsent, wanted to be sure nobody would fuck with her again, hence her conquerings.
This also fits because in the dlc we learned the elden beast is acting on its own accord and that the greater will isn't actually communicating to it. when you go to the third church of marika its insinuated that Marika had already begun to question the "Greater will" and she states that she was going to learn all there is about the golden order instead of following it blindly. I believe she made a ton of terrible decisions but it was 100% Radagon/Elden Beast that influenced said decisions by claiming it was to the behest of the greater will. Once she started resisting and eventually shattered it? Radagon taking over her body completely checks out. That makes her literally caged in her divinity like what St.Trina warned Miquella about. nice video.
maybe when we see them at the boss fight marika is already dead but radagon still lives? that could explain why they only move when ginger mode turns on
Good point!
'Actually been doing the bum-bums.' That cracked me up 😂
Lmaooo glad it could crack you up
Too bad we didn't get any new info on Radagon in the DLC and we probably never will.
It really is a shame!
@@theemeraldgecko310it makes me think everything we need to know is here and we just haven’t put it together yet
This also gives credence to Miquellas decision to abandon Trina.
Having seen his parents toxic partnership and how Radagon took over, he could have been wary of the same thing happening to himself
I just like the idea that Radagon was once his own, separate being. I don't have much proof for that, though.
Merry Christmas, everyone.
I do as well I’m so 50/50 on which I like more!
Merry Christmas!
Personally I agree with a lot of what you have been saying. The difference is that I think Radagon has always wanted to become marika and became her after separating from renalla. Maybe he was the reason why marika and Godfrey parted ways. There has to be a reason why both their bodies are half made when we fight radagon. I just think he has marika trapped so he can become her and mend the ring that she broke. Having her new husband’s children kill marika’s most prominent child could be a political power move
Totally agree. I wonder if he had some kind of hold on Marika
He's something that I've been thinking about when it comes to Radagon and the Elden beast. When we defeat Radagon, the Elden Ring in his body disappears and emerges as the elden beast. Now we all know that Marika is the vessel for the elden ring, but what if Radagon was the Elden beast all along. Manipulating Marika, establishing the golden order, and so on. Would also explain why she was trying to destroy the elden ring. She was trying to destroy Radagon all along.
You know we don’t fight Marika cause Marika is the one guiding us…. Grace is Marika
Aye, my point is though, what’s she guiding us to is so much different to what we’re told she wants!
@@theemeraldgecko310I believe both Ranni and Marika represent body autonomy in a way. They both choose death before giving up their agency for another god to take control of them.
I think that each candidate, either Empyrean or Elden Lord, is actually granted a Great Rune when they are granted demigod status. Marika would have the Great Rune of Life, and her Order is one of eternal life, making her Marika the Eternal. Radagon is the Lord of Stagnation/Stasis, as his Great Rune is the Cross-hatching behind the Elden Ring keeping it together, and he seeks to keep the current Order the way it is, despite decay having seeped in. Also, Radagon sucks, became Elden Lord after Godfrey had already taken care of all opposition to the Erdtree and torments everyone else because he wants to keep living.
I think they needed each other to become one god.
The fingers didn’t like what she was doing and Radagon agreed.
The fingers and radagon turned against her and to get back at them she broke the Elden ring and calls for all her kids and all the tarnished to come “Fix” the golden order I.e. replace radagon with a new half she can to their god hood . If it wasn’t us it would’ve been godfrey
Good theory but let's remember that characters know Marika is "now nowhere to be found". If Radagon was the main personality all this time along why bothering with the imprisonment of Marika. (It could still be that he was very angry for the shattering and, with the help of the Elden Beast, it self-crucified after blocking with barbs the entrance to the Erdtree).
I agree that Radagon came to be some time before Marika became a God. Maybe the treason itself was the existance of Radagon, hidden away, to replace the previous God/Elden Lord (or hornsent's candidate to be God) in the SoTE story trailer. "An affair from which gold arose"
I think all of this because Messmer was reffered as "an older brother to the Lion". If he was older than Radahn, then, it came to be before Radagon/Rennala children but we don't really know. Another fact is that the blessings that Marika bestowed to Messmer were made for him only, as for him being the first child of Marika.
Also, Marika probably veiled the Lands Of Shadow as soon as she became God but still, we don't really know when the epuration by Messmer began, because crusades are not something you can set up without a strong belief in your religion and I'm sure that takes time even when you're sure God exists and is visible to your followers
Hi! I believe than Radagon has a past that's different than Marika and there is a lot of evidence pointing towards him being related with the Misbegoten and their recentment, a lot of the misbegoten weapon talk about this. Also, I think there is a lot of content related to Radagon in the Weeping Peninsula, particularly around Morne Castle. To me its evident that Radagon at some point was a very famous blackmisth, he might had been Hewg's cousin, another character tied directly to Marika. Goldmask also talk about this issue, arguing than the soul of Marika has 2 rithms, one being a wild one, which is another clear refference to the misbegoten nature of Radagon.
Some interesting points, but you didn't mention the sculptor part correctly. Well, he didn't run away, quite the contrary, he was so fascinated that he built a statue that had both personas.
And in the Boss fight we don't face Radagon. Radagon possessed glinstone spells, and arcs of light.
Instead we face Radagon's dead body being manipulated by the Elden Beast
The Great Radagon... Full of Ambition...
Marika's other half...
When he came about, Marika has already so much established herself, this made him insecure and wanted more. I agreed...
I wonder how you account for the division between the Two Fingers and the Golden Order? When you give Corhyn the Two Fingers pray book he calls it " heresy."
I don't think it is a stretch to see Radagon as a type of "Red Dragon" who deceived Marika. I always wonder if the art of spirit transfer was used to combine Radagon and Marika. Either Radagon is a spirit from a past age, maybe the Elden John statues, there is a "husk" of Radagon's old body, or he is a manifestation of Marika's soul.
Nice video. I've come to really enjoy your channel!
Merry Christmas to all. Lol i feel a bit like Santa all of a sudden 🎅
Merry Christmas to you too man! Well hello then Santa 🎅
maybe Radahn forgot he hates Radagon, because of his brainrot
Good point! I think you’re probably right!
2:04 i mean, radagon is her consort,which is why he's fighting for her, like like how we dont fight miquella directly, we fight radahn.
I dont think Marika is a good person at all, she's the pull trying to pull a lot of the strings in the background by manipulating and using different characters
I agree about the majority of the video, and have felt this was the case for a long time now, but I have always felt line "Thou’rt yet to become me. Thou’rt yet to become a god" was more of a bitter rebuke than you portray here. It always came off as an either a cold warning against attempted treachery or a heated response to an actual betrayal. This would only make sense to me if it came after his return from Caria and the establishment of GO Fundamentalism. My guess is that there was a silent schism within Leyndell’s religious and political leadership, with Fundamentalist choosing Radagon’s regression + causality over Marika’s abundance + blessing, and that very heterodoxy created a gap that widened until he finally usurped and imprisoned her - triggering The Shattering.
Why does she tell him 'he is not yet her, not yet a god.' if he's the divine prison/entity wouldn't that be a nonsensical statement.
Sorry if it got misconstrued, I didn’t mean that he’s ALWAYS been in control
Marika and radagan have always been one person I’m pretty sure that was explained all true emperions have to sides like mikali they just never seperated completely which made one of them (radagan) able to be controlled by the greater will even though the other (marika) was still a God able to destroy and create! Which is why mikali got rid of his weaker side that wouldn’t become a God and would hold him back enabled to be controlled
Marika is being presented in a crucified manner in comparison to land of shadow she’s presented as a caring giving god
Leda mentions how we are there on common reasons but for different purposes
This is a theme through out the game
Common interests
Different outcomes
I think its possible---and I'm not entirely convinced myself--that Radagon was justifiably imprisoning Marika as punishment for her many genocidal, world conquering crimes. Melina's line about the world being beautiful the way it is resonates with me; life continues, and since none of the endings seem to honor that, it almost seems like the status quo is the best option for the Lands Between. The God that exemplifies Order is kept from instilling any more harm upon the world, Those Who Live in Death suffer persecution only by a small minority while simultaneously having developed a culture of their own, all of the divine elements that Marika suppressed are finding their way back into the world, and all the Demigods are past the point of usefulness without the help of our Tarnished. Anything we do to become Elden Lord upsets that balance and begins the cycle over again. Maybe its naive, but the world as we find it seems to be a better place than any of the worlds offered by any of the endings. Once we've gotten rid of every Demigod we can, the best option seems to be to leave the world as it is, with Marika and the Elden Beast imprisoned.
I really do like this theory, not only does it makes a lot of sense but it adds a huge new tragic layer to the endings!!!
I like the themes that Elden Ring and Lies of P tried to cover
Also we know miquella is St. Trina and left her abandoned to die, why wouldn't Radagon do the same to his *abandoned* half
To your point, the Lands of Shadow are under a big mimic veil... I mean... look up
This makes so much more sense.
Glad you think so!
Kinda makes sense too from the intro it says Marika is gone no one has seen her
I kinda assumed that was post shattering, but thinking about it you might be onto something
Radagon is Agatha
And he’s been her all along…
This is good.
I don't like this theory because it takes agency from Marika 🤔But it's true that Shattering was just a big scale divorce and their kids act accordingly.
I appreciate you’re thoughts!
radagons origin is marika. yes hes loyal to the golden order but they are two completely separate personalities. marika was punished by the greater will NOT radagon. thats why her hair quicklt shifts and becomes radagon to defend the golden order.
We have to think of this as a form of body horror/spit personality in a way. You have Marika, a god, which has lived possibly decamillennials, decides to "grow" a male side and experiece life differently. Marika was always in control. This game is a great exedcise in metaphysics and the most important TIME as the engine of creation. Eventually a plant on earth eill grow legs and walk. How long? millions of years for us, a split second for a god. Maybe, why would Marika decide to experiment with another form of self. I think here is a human condition question only, maybe to disappear in obscurity for the sins of her past in a better body and ideals as a man? Who tf knows. Primarily Elden Ring is a story about TIME
Radagon IS Marika though 🤨 thats like saying Stalin isnt responsible for the atrocities of the USSR that's actually Joeseph. Also if anything id think Radagon was the one trying to hide and repair Marikas reputation from her own horrible actions. That said the reason I think there are split item descriptions when it comes to Marika is because half of it is the official narrative and the other half is the truth of her actions.
We all say that marika is the mastermind anf that she is the original. But what if Radagon is the first one, and then he was able to transform into a female. What if Radagon is the mastermind all along.
This takes it to another level and I absolutely love it, only thing is you’d have to make their splitting and fusion way WAY earlier!
Tbh radagon jacked the greater will order if you pay attention all of our obstacles were set in place by radagon but I don't think radagon was evil maybe power hungry
Marika was possessed the entire time I keep saying this and were are starting to come around to it as a community but listen
Radagon of the GOLDEN ORDER
It’s not that he’s a piece of shit it’s that Marika was never supposed to be in this position
SHE WAS USED AS A PUNISHMENT ON THE HORNSENT
Which is probably one half of the the Draconian race
Who are descendent a of dragons
What if Marika IS the Elden Ring?
BUM BUM BUMM
Technically, she is. Precisely, the Elden Ring became part of the Vessel that keeps it, as we see their back cracking while they shatter/repair it. This is also why Radagon probably wanted to repair it... you know, no one wants to die because your crazy half decided to k*ll herself, you and put the world into a shattered chaos.
Am I supposed to hate someone who hasn’t done anything to me?
Not at all! Can’t really hate someone who hasn’t done anything specifically to you, most of the time
Does that mean radagon is the gloam eyed queen?
Or maybe thi suggests that rykard inherited an aspect of his father, feeding himself to the snake, maybe he fed himself to the gloam eyed queen and became part of her
I’ve never seen this theory, but to be honest I’m in love with this lol
radagon was planted in marika to control her by the greater will when she stole the ascension from the hornsent. the old farum azula elden ring was then replaced by the elden beast. either that or radagon and marika was the result of an alchemical ribus after a successfull pot shaman saint was made by the bonny village potentates
But Marika is radagon…. I blame them both
Fair enough to be fair!
Ohhh shit. Commenting before watching, but just wanted to say if this is going to talk about what ive always sed, lets goooo
Second? Who’d have thought
🎉🎉🎉 YOU ARE SECOND
I feel like this community is slowly losing touch….with everything. I don’t agree with you anymore…
She got the prawns in the divorce 😢
NOT THE PRAWNSSSSS
So the masculine aspect of Marika usurped her body and powers ?
Merika shattered the ring, not Radagon!
Never go hollow
I’ll certainly try 🙏 you too!
Mm interesting vid, but I dont really agree.
I was very shocked to see Rad at the end tho, Really expected to face Marika ngl
...Aren't they the same person anyway?
Yes! But because it says they’re two souls, it kinda suggests they have their own minds!
How that works exactly I really don’t know
It's... complicated. They're the same person but they're not. They represent opposing forces that inhabit one body. One breaking the Ring, other repairing it. One calling you to the Erdtree, other barring entry to the Erdtree. One being crucified and very much out of combat, other.
The same as miquella and st trina are the same but different.
Oh no! Not Radagons hidden secret.
It’s was radagon all uhh longgg
ALL ALONG
very cool video remind me a lot of the usurping theory by JarHed
But does it change everything?! 😮😑
Yep, if the theory is true it changes the common preconception regarding the whole game, because without Marika (or radagon) elden ring as we know it doesn’t happen :)
Stop cutting/changing dialogues for your own personal theories...marika says "my other self" not "half" and later she says...."lets both be shattered" so, this is clearly pre destruction of the ring...if you did it on purpose to make your theory fit, its wrong...if you dont do it on purpose, now you know...
First? Holy crap
Jeepers creepers don’t scare me like that bro😢🎉
Is this the feminist take, where we all look for the nearest male to blame to excuse the female’s actions?
Did we watch the same video lol?
@@theemeraldgecko310 No.
Bro is just yapping nonsense
Like most souls theories
I bet Miyazaki is just as confused
@bennyblunto973 yeah I was watching mid way when he started to come up lore from his azz I'm like is bro okay 😭😭 this world is weird man.
I mean it does say speculation in the title? Plus I didn’t speculate on anything that isn’t stated in game?
Merry Christmas!
Fourth
That you are!