The prequels didn’t need saving. The overall plot of the 3 movies was actually good. There was a coherent narrative, unlike the sequels. The execution, dialogue and acting was questionable but overall was still enjoyable.
Let's compare this: Anakin a character who develops and changes regularly Has a personality and motivations The problem was that he did it with a bit cringe and sometimes way too quickly The Clone Wars explained the reasons for these changes and made them seem almost natural Meanwhile Rey In The Force Awakens she wanted to belong and then her arc was literally forgotten She has no motivation, no development and no personality A series about her would be ignoring the sequels and pretending that this character has any motivations. It wouldn't work. Rey is the definition of a narrative trap
Let me preface by saying that I would prefer they reboot the sequel trilogy; accept it just didn’t work and redo it. That said, I don’t think it’s accurate that a new series of movies, if better written, couldn’t redeem the Rey character. If someone actually wrote a really compelling story around that character and the movies were genuinely good, we would just ignore the sequels and pay attention to the good movies now available to us.
@@Buckeyesteve10The problem isn't so much the Rey character as it is the depiction of every character. Fin is a stormtrooper who defected, and this is ignored. Poes character is torn down in the last jedi. Luke tries to murder his nephew in his sleep and goes away to die. Han is a deadbeat dad whose entire character arc throughout the original trilogy from selfish smuggler to Aliance General is undone. Simply creating a better Rey movie will not undo the damage done to these characters and the franchise.
Exactly, I still HATE Last Jedi for disgracing Luke, and no amount of new Rey related content is going to fix what we got in the sequel trilogy, since it will be all the stuff we should have seen Luke do. I have no Idea where Thor got this idea from.
I used to hate EU. Then I read EU and grew to like it expansion upon the lore, not destory it. Love the Legacy era, the real sequel. I still hate Disney canon. Can't really enjoy the good star wars made by EA, (Ironiclly) because it all lead to the Sequel.
I think somebody is overestimating how much the prequels were “hated”. They received their share of people that could not stand them. But that number of people multiplied by A LOT for the prequels. There is an easily noticeable difference between the love the prequels got and continues to get and the amount of that for the sequels.
When i was a kid, The Clone Wars was everywhere. Nearly everyone watched and loved it and even the kids who didn't watch the show, collected the trading cards. Of course we kids all loved the prequels. I didn't see the flaws of the movies back then. It was a really cool time, trading cards, discussing Clone Wars and playing on the playground as our favorite Jedi
The Clone wars was really Mixed the Show was meh and the outside stuff was Hit and Miss Trading cards were OK but TCW Had so much attrocious garbage beginning with the movie ,the terrible Games and Lackluster Comics.
@@laisphinto6372 That comes with the territory when making an anthology series. TCW had very the lowest valleys and the highest peaks, in the same season at times.
Those movies are not going to save the Sequels, nor do Rey justice either. One reason I dislike those movies, besides how much an utter mess the story was, and how badly written the characters were...it feels like Rey honestly didn't earn her victory and status as the new builder of the Jedi Order. She doesn't struggle throughout the films or suffers a major defeat that makes he grow as a person or character. She's basically the same character at the end as she was in the beginning. Everything just felt like it was all given to her.
I don't think many SW fans had their opinions on the PT changed from bad to good by TCW. Sure, a few did change their minds and many felt at least a little better about the PT once TCW came along but by and large those who disliked the PT still did during after TCW. And the dislike of those for the PT was a small thing compared to the anger generated by the ST. It's like building something on a bad foundation. No matter what you try to build on top of it, the foundation is still bad.
Like them or hate them, the prequels didn't need saving. The trilogy stood on its own and spawned a generation of fans and spin off products, the clone wars being one of them. Each prequel movie seemed to generate mor hype, not less. The sequels as far as I can tell don't have the same wealth of a younger fanbase. It seemed to lose appeal the longer it went on. I don't see anyone asking for more sequels.
This is just not true all people i know personally love the sequels and most young people love them its just sad to see what happend with the prequels getting repeated with the sequels and its all just so hypocritical all “arguments” that the sequels are “bad” can just easily be debunked by anyone who has common sense if you dont like them fine but dont try to speak for other people because thats just not the true what your saying, do better!
Truth be told, I get a bit annoyed when some people say that the clone wars “saved” the prequel’s. The prequel‘s had some flaws with the romance writing but overall, it’s a very well done story. In other words, it’s fine without a TV series. However, A TV series can’t save the sequels, because the trilogy itself is so unorganized and it doesn’t respect the classic characters & lore.
For me, the prequels were as bad in comparison to the OT as the sequels are in comparison to the PT. In my opinion, they definitely needed saving. They had some cool ideas, striking visuals, and good world building. But the story and script needed MASSIVE rewrites, and as those are the two most important elements of a movie, I don't think they can be called "good" as a whole. Especially AOTC. I rewatched that one the other day, and it took all my willpower not to fast forward through a 3rd of the film.
@arthurfisher1857 While I agree AotC isn't a great film, I do think the underlying story works as a larger story. Lucas essentially sets up a Greek tragedy where trying to avoid a prophecy (Padme's death) brings about the prophecy. The sequels probably did more to make them look good by comparison. But I think they're also easier for OT fans to ignore. They don't really undermine the OT the way the sequels do.
I have real problems with the perception that Filoni's Clone Wars "saved" the Prequels. There was already plenty of expanded material including books, games, comic books, and a prior Clone Wars TV series by Genndy Tartakovsky. The Prequels didn't need "saving," especially not by a frankly unoriginal, cherry-picking, fanfiction-esque creator whose claim to fame was directing a few episodes of Avatar TLA.
It “saved The Prequels” in the sense that mass audiences were able to think positively of this time period. Most people just prefer to watch video content over reading books. So having the show air on CN and Netflix, exposed more people to the lore and context of the prequels, than the books did.
@@aaroneclipse514But it didn't do that. The prequel hate continued until TLJ came along. The sequels are what indirectly saved the prequels. Not TCW. TCW was also pretty divisive and not popular among EU fans.
@ Not necessarily. TCW reduced a significant amount of hate that OT-fans and non-SW fans had for the prequels. When TLJ came out, practically any remaining hate for the prequels was erased. TCW is only controversial among EU fans, but overall most people think positively of the prequels since TCW exposed more people to context and better stories.
@@aaroneclipse514 A Jedi with the name "I'm Gonna Die" is better stories, really? Plus there's a reason EU fans hate TCW, is that the representation of EU elements on screen are overtly simplified and dumbed down. There are people out there who'd have loved them as proper adaptations, like anime, but Filoni was never going to do that, sadly.
@@saberiandream316 You misunderstood my point: when I said "better stories", I meant better than the movies can show. Because Ep. 1-2 are considered bad movies by most of the general audience and OT SW fans. I do consider the UE as the superior canon, even though I still believe TCW is quality, but the prequel films are inferior to both.
As a lifelong Mandalorian fan, boy I hate what TCW did to the lore. Initially, with the historical context from the EU intact, there was promise there but DAMN, once the house of mouse blew the expanded universe up it went right into the pit
What Filoni did to the witches of Dathomir is even worse. I wish TCW could be removed from the EU as Legends, it hurts the timeline the longer it's part of the continuity.
I swear every inconsistency from the EU Prequel time Period IS Just TCW existence before TCW IT was the best and Most consistent Timeline of the entire EU with the Clone wars Multimedia Project having all Kinds of Media working together consistently. The gaslighting IS real from EU haters saying the EU IS inconsistent and they Bring Up TCW AS a scource.
TCW didn't saved the prequels. The thing is, the prequels tell a story that works by it's own, and beyond that: it expanded the star wars lore immensely and opened space for more stories, thus The Clone Wars. Now... I'm afraid I can't say the same about Rey. Or the sequels.
Honestly, the prequels were fine as it is. It didn't need saving. If anything, TCW kinda expanded the prequels ( most of them ). Even the original 2003 CW did the prequels justice at that time.
Something I have noticed about the prequel trilogy amongst my generation (gen x ) is that those of us who skew younger and saw the OT as children are a lot more forgiving of the PT than the older gen X-ers. A lot of people my age were initially not too fond of the PT , but we were willing to give TCW and attempts to make the story better a chance . As a result , a lot of us have grown to appreciate the PT a little bit more in the past decade . We don’t love it , but it’s not as bad as we originally perceived. However, many of those from Gen X who were tweenagers or just starting adolescence at the time of OT are adamant in their dislike of the PT and don’t seem to want to give it a chance to improve . They also hate the ST , but to their credit, they don’t seem to hate it any more than the PT . They just hate everything that’s not OT . In fact , they seem to hate everything about life in general.
The Prequels did not need saving. And even between Attack of the Clones and Revenge of the Sith we got the Tartakovsky Clone Wars, which are awesome!! The later cartoon just added to them. I would argue that Lego games had as much to do with that era of SW fans. There was a big crossover between the kids who grew up with the Lego Star Wars games, who also watched the cartoon.
Fans will not come to accept the sequels or leave the fandom. Thats not what we are seeing. Those fans reject the Disney cannon and instead follow the EU cannon. Much like fans reject the Kelvin timeline in Star Trek and instead follow and are fans of the prime timeline. Basically what Disney has done is to split the fanbase. With seprate camps of what is the true events and history of the Star Wars Galaxy.
I saw the Clone Wars movie in theatres, but I didn't plan to. At the end when they showed everyone together with the music I fell in love with the idea. It gave me that OT rush I had missed.
I'd love to see future Rey get heavily nerfed and, trying to find why, get to talk with Anakin ghost, and he tells her that all the awesome things she did, it was him all along, since the moment she touched his lightsaber. Then Rey has to work very hard to gain power again.
I had a similar idea. A lot of people forget that the force, as mysterious as it is, is somewhat sentient and has its own will and agenda. With so many force users having gone extinct, and the main users (other than Luke and Ahsoka) being the darksiders Snoke, Palpatine, and Kylo Ren, the Force would have needed to choose someone to surge through in a powerful way in order to bring back the balance. As Snoke said in TLJ "Darkness rises, and light to meet it." So I think her being so powerful was the Force itself trying to radically undo the imbalance. That said, I think a good way to move forward would be for her to rapidly start to lose her power after TROS, similar to Spider-Man lost his power in the second movie. She would wonder why and be shown by ghost Anakin and Luke that now her role has been fulfilled, she has to train and study harder to actually earn the title of a Jedi rather than having it handed to her, like all the Jedi before her. Since her being the sole remaining powerful force user would imbalance the force. It would be a story opportunity to explore the nature of the force and of its balance. I also have a head canon that Anakin has taken on the role of the Mortis father as a divine like being. And his position in the World Between Worlds allows him to reach through time and space to enforce the will of the force. So all of the "plot armor" moments is explained as him acting out unseen for the overall greater plan of the Force.
I think an issue the sequels have is there's very little about the setting that allows for stories that can't also work if set in the OT aside from legacy characters like Rey; if your working with a mostly original cast, truly any sequel story could be pallet swapped to the ot with minimal rewriting You can't do that with the clone wars era because there's enough unique elements to the setting, you can't really tell story featuring the Droid army in the sequels or a Senate corruption plot in the OT
Yeah I fully agree. That’s the main thing that bummed me out about the Disney sequels. They killed off the Skywalker/Solo family. Pretty much the heart of the franchise. Bring back that family tree man.
The prequels had lot of good stuff and potential in them to expand and shine light on as well as solid overarching story under the hiccups. It was being already built on concurrently in the CW multimedia projects well integrated with the novelisation and could support later the likes of Plagueis that with the earlier Cloak of Deception can make even episode I seem like a masterplay on Palpatine's part... Those are imho miles better than TCW (said as someone who's seen and loved TCW first), which had the benefit of being on screen. I haven't heard of much connected good stuff growing around the sequels save some standalones here and there (which often may have been undermined by the chaotic unplanned proceeding of the "trilogy") but that may be I didn't look properly, as I grow irritated every time a project starts bending to connect and build up to the sequels. I just can't imagine it could be redeemed enough, support something really worthwhile... it being the destination is really an udermining factor for me when brought up. I feel like any great project would be only undermined by it if properly integrated, whereas PT has great projects by leaning into its inherent elements. But I massively biased.
The sad truth is that even tho I love the clonewars, the actual size of the fanbase is smaller than many of those direhard fans are willing to admit. sure there are plenty of mega fans for it, but the vast majority of regular starwars fans could care less about it or dont even know of its existence.
The TCW fanboys know that Like they Tell people Not bothering to watch the movie or the First seasons of it, Showcasing why many people dont Like IT Not Just EU Fans going along with absolutely garbage TCW Material Like the Games , Comics and books that were terrible No wonder IT wasnt that popular especially during its running time only the ones who endured became the TCW fanbase
The only way to save the sequels is to give more context to Luke and Ben's relationship. Inspite of Luke's teachings Ben constantly leans on his darker impulses instead of embracing balance. But if you insist on using Rey, you will have to deconstruct the character to rebuild her. She can't girlboss her way through things.
I'm sick of this "TCW saved the prequels " narrative. The prequels were beloved by fans at the time of their movie runs. It was a few critics and RedLetterMedia that started the prequel hate train that dominated the internet before the Disney buyout.
This is just not true, dude. Many of us who grew up on the OT were very disappointed by the prequels. Certainly it’s fair to say they weren’t as controversial as the sequel trilogy, but it’s simply inaccurate to say that they were universally beloved.
I have to concur. As much as I grew up as a kid with the OT in the cinema and loved the PT, they were not well received by fans or critics. The animated CW were necessary to help add gravitas to the lore. Time heals all wounds…
@@Buckeyesteve10 amazing at how much history is trying to be rewritten. It's one thing to say "I liked them when I was younger" cool but this takes the cake.
I think I agree with you for the vast majority of people but I do personally know 3 separate people that did indeed not like the prequels and ended up coming around to liking them because of the clone wars so while I think that is rare I know from personal experience that it did actually happen in some cases. I also agree that in general people like me that despise the sequels will likely just not ever go see anything more to do with rey personally I feel like I have an obligation to watch everything disney puts out labeled star wars I am also in the camp of I always loved the prequels so the clone wars didn't have that kind of affect on me if / when these rey movies come out I will end up watching them with an open mind (I really just want to love and enjoy new things star wars I don't want to be constantly disappointed) but I really don't think there is anything they could do to make the sequels tolerable The sequels are so far gone past George's vision that even if they convinced George himself to come back to make these rey movies with the only single stipulation being that he can't overwrite the sequels I honestly believe that even George himself couldn't write something that could redeem those movies
Hey Thor, I was one of those people who didn’t really like the prequels and yet absolutely loved the clone wars animated series. Maybe I’m a fluke but to me the series filler in many issues and gave a ton of life to the whole story while adding so much more interesting content and characters in the process. Frankly, it made the prequels for me much more tolerable
The Prequels always have good things about them. They had a strong unified story to tell and that story is fun. I never saw the Clone Wars because I can’t understand how Anakin got an apprentice. The Sequels are absolutely trash, totally destroyed the lore established by the previous six movies . No good characters and a story that bounced around with no goal . The EU is vastly superior.
It’s really hard to tell sometimes times. Depending on who you listen to it can go either way. But if you have the prefect writer and director you can definitely do it. They just seem to be sorely lacking in those things.
Personally, I like the idea that there are different versions of a vast, ever-evolving story. Like directors cuts or special editions of films, differing versions can exist at the same time; we can choose which we prefer. To me, that’s preferable to having one single version that I don’t particularly like. Another example is the original human actor of Jabba; I really like that scene (in it’s unedited state) and find the idea of an alternate universe human Jabba really intriguing. But I love the Jabba we got and I can like both ideas at the same time.
I think the best argument in favor of this working was the Lego Holiday Special with Rey as the main character being well received. But I get that it's a big stretch that that would happen. That special had much more humor and familiar side characters than this project could have, and when The Mandalorian and The Bad Batch tried to build towards the sequel narrative that was controversial in itself.
@ I’ve watched every episode, most multiple times actually. Are you trying to tell me that I haven’t seen any inconsistencies between TCW and the movies?
@ I haven’t because they don’t exist those claim they do clearly didn’t see it or miss vital details. Give me one example of where there is a contradiction with the films.
I was 12 when TCW came out. Pretty much wrote it off immediately as “not real star wars” since it was animated and I didn’t like the style at the time (or animation in general really at that point). I was THE target audience and didn’t care at the time. Today I absolutely love it though and regret not giving it more of a try back then
With the volume of Star Wars media you have to put together your own head cannon to enjoy it the stuff you don't like just forget about it .Yoda once said you must" Un learn what you have learned." like you said there are some episode that are not that good and some that are very good.
The Clone Wars and the Old Republic MMO was what really got me into Star Wars I had seen the original trilogy and the prequels and I had some interest in the franchise
For me personally, I didn’t watch much of the Clone Wars series when it came out. When it came to Netflix my younger brother binge watched them and told me how good it was. I don’t think I’ve watched them all consecutively, but I’ve seen most of them now. Honestly though, I think video essays on RUclips were what made me appreciate the plot and story of the Prequels. I was young when they came out, liked them at first, but disliked Jar Jar, the Anakin-Padme awkward romance, and how quickly it felt that Anakin turned to the Dark Side. I enjoyed the video games, like the og battlefront games, and the toys. But it was really the video essays on RUclips that helped me realize how interesting the plot and story was (despite its flaws). I don’t mind Jar Jar or Anakin’s fall to the Dark Side in Episode III anymore (I still cringe at the romance scenes in Episode II). But I am able to enjoy the Prequels a lot better now. Also, the problems of the Sequel Trilogy made me appreciate the Prequels more. To add to your point, I don’t think the Sequels have enough depth to make them more enjoyable. The most in depth analysis only shows how poorly it was written. There’s not a new perspective that makes it more meaningful. At least for me.
My dad grew up with the OT, and hates the prequels. I’ve put in a good word for the clone wars so many times and he still refuses to give it a chance. So Thor is so right here. If someone hates something, they’re probably not going to give its complimentary material a chance.
I think the Sequels are much worse than the Prequels ever were, even at their worst, and if Lucasfilm is banking on some sort of "Clone Wars Effect" to save them, they are simply throwing good money after bad with new Sequel era content.
I didn't watch the clone wars when it first came on cartoon network. At the time i was more into teen titans and ben 10. Although slowly but surely the clone wars grew on me and it's the reason i became a fan of star wars in the first place and it's the best animated show in the franchise.
Hey Thor, As you noted, one of the reasons that many people feel like TCW saved the PT is around how it added into the time gap between AOTC and ROTS. But, it couldn't have done that without something to work with there. What is there for Disney to work with to grow Rey?
The clone wars series just helped enhancing the underlying story of the prequels, which was actually pretty good. The prequels had much lesser flaws than people claimed, it was more the slight deviation from "established" canon (which was perceived larger than it actually was, most was from the extended universe and not actually confirmed by Lucas), wooden dialog and underwhelming characters, and that got addressed with the series. The problems of the "sequels" are not only this, although they got that in spades, too. They have horrible characters (no character really stands out, even Rey is pushed into our faces, but forgettable) , weird, non-connected stories, no memorable dialog and the openly and proudly move from any canon at all, mixing up everything from jedi powers to technology as the authors decided on a whim. But the biggest point is: the sequels were designed to trash the original series, trash their memorable characters, trash their victories, trash practically everything that came before them. Any extra series cannot build upon this, except if the series, too, want to be trashing on the originals, too, which of course would have no "saving" effect at all.
worked for me. my friends pushed me to watch the clone wars, and i always defelected, thinking of it as kids stuff. but thankfully i gave in. watched the clone wars, had a lot of rough moments with it, but in the end, it may have been the most emotionally engaging content since episode 6. to me, the clone wars elevated the prequels from a meh 6/10 to a very respectable 8.5/10.
Hey Thor, I've noticed that fans of Rey are or were intrigued by her connections to other people, but not so much drawn to her as a character in her own right. Who is she related to? How is she going to train and interact with Luke? What about her dynamic with Kylo/Ben? Could she pair off with him or someone like Finn, or Poe?
Simple : The Clone Wars fits in the Ep. II and III gap (around 3 years and bring more context to the Prequel Trilogy's end) while the rumored Rey movie/trilogy would be set after the Sequel Trilogy so even if the new content is good, it will not "save" what appened before.
Nah, the sequels are cooked. Always have been. The closes thing that gave Episode 7 more depth was the Battlefront II (2017) Campaign story that focused on Iden’s daughter and the people she used to know that joined the First Order. Other than that, it’s too late to fix any of it. They could’ve put out more games and material in between the sequels but they just rushed through all that. There isn’t even a time skip in between 7 and 8. No air to breath whatsoever to expand on them in any way. I could care less what happened during that era anymore.
To be fair, about season 3 or 4 CartoonNetwork switched The Clone Wars from Friday nights to Saturday morning. And I've heard the idea of Saturday Cartoons often in my teens-adult life but can't relate to it. Any fellow 2000s kids feel free to say contrary, but how many of us spent Saturday mornings lazing in bed, happy to have two or, if you had to go to church on Sundays, one day in the week you didn't have to get up early. Which is why my Clone Wars experience was had a many years gap between the first half and second, with me rarely being up early enough to catch an episode back then.
And honestly the TCW First seasons we're straight Up garbage Like AS a Kid i got bored quickly with them and watched the Prequels instead or Heard the Labyrinth of Evil Audiobook. I think people retro actively overrestimate how popular TCW was Back then. The Video Games flopped for a reason
I feel like Rey could be saved by "The Clone Wars effect" if the project was given to a good writer. To me, if they tried to fix Rey's character, I'd like a series called Star Wars Resistance Reborn, which would be a two-season series that follows in-between the events of The Last Jedi and The Rise of Skywalker. Make Rey Flawed, make her go on a character arc that changes her as a character for the better (Instead of sticking to who her Family are/Lineage as her arc.) But again, it needs to be given to the right people. An idea that I like is: What if Rey Lost Her Connection with The Force? That she relied too much on her connection with it in the last two films, leading then to The Force in itself removing her ability to use it. It then takes Leia and Force Ghost Luke to then properly train her in the ways of a True Jedi, and then by the end of series, she'd get her connection with the Force back. (Kinda like Spider-Man 2, in a way...)
The Clone Wars didn't "save" the prequels. They were always a good story that suffered from moments of poor execution. The novelizations helped, as did watching the cut scenes. Never watched The Clone Wars cause I dislike the narrator and the art style... forced myself through a few episode, but didn't impress me much. I'm not knocking anyone who did enjoy them. My nephew loved them... just not for me. Rey might benefit from stories that give her an actual character arc, but that won't fix what the sequels did to the OT characters.
Hey Thor, I was wondering if you had a chance to see the two small fan made Star Trek movies about Spock and Kirk from Otto studios? Apparently Paramount has even licensed these movies following the Picard finale which ties in both the Kelvin and Prime timelines and sets up the new movie currently in preproduction! Wouldn’t be great if Lucasfilm treated their fans with the same level of respect in regard to the lore? Love the channel and as always MTFBWY…
I was a teen when the prequels came out. I, like everyone else, thought they sucked. I actively avoided the clone wars in all its forms. It wasn't until my 30's that I checked out the clone wars and enjoyed some of it, but it was the release of The Last Jedi that finally made me appreciate the prequels.
To be blunt. Episode 1 had flaws. Episode 2 had its charm and flaws. Episode 3 ended it. Episode 7 had its charm and flaws. Episode 8 had lots of flaws and broke the fan base. Episode 9 had no freaking idea what to do and also pissed off the people who liked episode 8 and the fan shipping. To be blunt... Prequels had its fans. The sequals has probelms. The prequels had clone wars. The original trilogy had Rebels. The Sequel mess had Resistance... How many people remember that show? The sequels are a black hole that sucks everything in, kills everything, and leaves nothing left to be made from the mess.
100% anecdotal. I watched the first season of the Clone Wars and did NOT like it. Then some random guy on RUclips who called himself a Skywalker recommended me to give it another shot and... Now I LOVE The Clone Wars and Rebels. So, thank you Thor :). Btw, what is your opinion on sand? (I ALWAYS ask Skywalkers that question)
Fuck the 2008 Filoni Wars show and all the bullshit retcons it made to THE EU Still to this day the only thing in the 2008 Filoni Wars that i will say is a genuinely great thing is the mortis stuff but outside of that when Anakin and obiwan were there nothing in that shitshow is any good (Notice how o didnt brong up ahsoka yeah anakin necer had a Padawan especially not that mary sue worthless character)
Ahsoka struggled a lot, and developed a lot. She was arrogant and bratty early on, but that was the point. She was a fucking teenager! What 15 or 16 year old isn't at least a little bratty and snotty? She learned how to be a leader, she learned how to fight and to save people, and to think for herself, and she admitted as much. Like her or not, she does NOT fit the definition of a Mary Sue by any means. Also, proofreading and checking grammar is our friend ;)
The clone wars built upon the prequels. It was so successful due to great writing and the era bring so interesting. The prequels acted as a solid framework because despite what you say about execution, the overall story was consistent and solid.
I don’t think that TCW saved the prequels for me but that’s probably because I loved the prequels until much later in the social media age when I saw the hate. It didn’t change my opinion of the movies much but I do agree with some of the arguments made. I haven’t fully watched TCW but what I have I feel only added to it. If Lucas film does the same to Rey I’m more then open but given there track record as of late I really think the problem isn’t Rey the problem is the people writing her. She has a deep compelling story to tell but I don’t think the people writing for her have the mental depth to walk the story needed to tell that story.
It was actually the other Clone Wars series that made me enjoy the first two prequels more. I really didn't think they were that good at the time and I also did not like the Clone Wars movie at all but the first Clone Wars series was very good in my opinion and changed my view of Episode One and Two greatly.
7:45 “new lore”= continuing to fuck up previous established lore and continuing to make the Force sentient and messed up compared to the original films. 😅
My opinion when TCW was going on , George Lucas honestly didnt Care anymore that much especially how often filoni contradicted and went behind Lucas Back to Change stuff, Something that wouldnt Happen previously. Also Something i absolutely despise about TCW fanboys IS whenever TCW IS praised its all Filoni ,but whenever you critize TCW oh its suddenly that was all George Lucas or now with Disney its all Kennedy fault. I hate Kennedy Disney wars AS well but at some Point WE have to critize the scared overrated cow filoni for all the BS He IS making Up .
I think the big difference is the environment the Sequels have been released into - the modern viewer is way more picky, as the endless hours we spend discussing entertainment online nurture one's critical eye. Basically, we have less casual viewers these days and more critics. I can imagine myself liking the Sequels, if not for the hours spent analyzing (and hear others analyze) what the Original Trilogy characters are "supposed to be about".
They could. If they would have even remotly try to make and atempt to move on from the clonewars. Season 7 was the end but bad batch was literally a clone show. And tales of the jedi was set during that time one of thouse stories was even about ashoka that is basically the clone wars. When the sequels where over they just left them there. and the fans dont give a crap after ep 8 and 9. Heck literally some *LEGO* specials Are the only thing that i have seen adressing the sequels after they ended...
I don't think the sequels can be saved by any sort of Clone Wars like show, but I do think the characters from those movies can be saved if you give them a good story and some actual character development.
I was a casual Star Wars viewer and frankly, I don't recall most people actually thinking the prequels were bad. They were considered inferior to the originals for sure, but never that bad. The prequels looked good, had enjoyable actions of light saber battles, spaceship combat, people shooting each other with the pew pew laser guns and there's the ridiculous space monsters and a lot more fun stuff. The problem was just that most of us casuals could not take the story serious and the harder it took itself serious, the more it became a joke. Despite that, Star Wars was enjoyed the most when shit went down. In the end, we thought the show fun to watch, but the story ridiculous.
Even if someone that didn't like the prequels watched the clone wars, I have a really hard time believing they would have liked the show, let alone enough so to make them come around to the movies
I’m not a fan of the animation of the human faces but even those are preferable to Hayden’s expression in AOTC. The acting in general is far less wooden, too. There are a few episodes that I really like.
The clone wars didn’t save the prequels, if anything it added context. The other thing is that the vast majority of the fandom agrees that certain parts of the prequels were good. Duel of the fates, the clone parts of attack of the clones, and Revenge of the Sith is widely popular. The sequels? They don’t even have that.
Hey, Thor , i was curious, recently ive been hearing some different news out of Lucas Film, and i got to be honest, im really not excited for any project thats slated to come out besides Andor season 2. Im a lifelong SW fan, and its one of, if not my all time favorite franchises and stories and universe ever! the prequels practically shaped my childhood imagination and ive loved it since i was young. However i really havent enjoyed much of anything from Disney Lucas Film since their purchase of the company. That's mainly to preface my question to communicate how sad it is that i havent been interested in a SW project in a very long time. its lost the "magic". so Im curious if theres a Star Wars project that you're most looking forward to, and why? Have a good day!
I am never giving Kennedyfilms another chance for theatrical releases unless it's a Tony Gilroy ONLY project. Rise of Palpiwalker broke me for anything involving "the main story." And Mando lost me when it became the platform for ten shows (most of which never happened) and was clearly being steered into justifying the ST. I gave TCW a chance even though I recognized the prequels weren't very good because I still that much of an SW fan then. I'd rather watch the prequels - at least the tonal confusion was mostly limited to ROTS.
Cool for those whom this might work for. But I'm over the sequels for good. I'm enjoying my hobby selectively now. I'm down to see any new stuff that might be interesting, but I can easily disregard everything else that isn't.
I can only speak for myself but Anakin only became a good character in the show. In the movies he is a child oblivious to the over arching plot, an angsty teenager destined to fall and then a rush to the dark side by the end. It felt like a documentary of a historical figure rather than his story. The show had so many stories about Anakin just being Anakin, the jedi knight. His flaws weren't so petty and obvious. He was a leader, a warrior, a mentor and a good friend. He was a wartime jedi while most of his peers served during peacetime.
The Thing is they didnt Develop Anakin in TCW they Just Made Up an entirely different Character and took beginning of Episode 3 Anakin for the entire Show remember this was suppose to BE Episode 2 Anakin Just a few weeks but somehow He IS now a knight freaking Yoda Trusts him with a padawan. The 2003 Clone wars much better Handling Anakin actually using Episode 2 Anakin and developing him into Episode 3 Anakin. TCW gets praised for developing Anakin when they Just pretended Episode 2 Anakin didnt exist at all
Now i'm just waiting for the Star Wars what if series With the yuuzhan vong Starting their invasion a few months before the Revenge of the Sith And at being animated and rated, MA
Clone Wars definitely did that for the Prequels (i was 10 when TPM came out and wasn't a fan, really didn't like AotC but did like RotS) but nothing will make Rey a good character or redeem the sequel trilogy.
Pretty simple Thor, Netflix is definitely watched by more people than CN because adults and older kids likely would not/never watch it and you can watch it anytime
It was more than Rey that was the issue with the sequels. It was also the character assassinations of legacy characters. The lack of care with Fin and Poe. Any good Rey movie, I would say, would just showcase just how bad the sequels were.
Hey Thor, how about a video comparing the Legends and canonical versions of Mandalorians, then saying which you prefer and why? Thanks as always for the work you and Naboo do.
To me I prefer the canon version. I like them more as flawed fractured society to show how the mighty have fallen over the millennia and it makes them more interesting that Karen’s Mary Sue culture.
The thing is the prequels even if you hate them had a clear through story. Most importantly it didn't shit on what came before. The most someone could agrue that it does is the midclorians but that's microscopic compared to the shit the sequels did to what came before. It even screws up its own new characters.
On average, gen-x hated the PT and didn't watch TCW; Millennials loved the PT (+ the multimedia project) and many of the latter ones watched TWC; Gen-z really enjoyed the TWC and thus enjoyed the PT. The PT wasn't saved by TWC changed people's mind, it was just Millennials and gen-z dominating the internet. Meanwhile, its been 9 years since episode 7, the kids who saw in theater now dominate the culture on tiktok and they aren't fighting for the ST the way Millennials and gen-z on reddit/etc did in the late 2000s and 2010s
I did not like the prequel movies. I have not watched the clone wars or rebels. I don’t trust Dave Faloni like some fans seem to implicitly do. I will not watch a Rey show or a resistance show. I don’t care what is made, I am a consumer who doesn’t take everything in. I watch what looks good or has something more than just Star Wars.
@ oh, yeah, no. I have no doubt that he isn’t a fan of the EU. Star Wars in general, sure many movie and tv show people are. But I don’t believe he cared about the EU and may even hate parts of it.
The CW series did make the prequels better even if you loved them from the beginning. But I don't see any chance that anything can make me in anyway like or even accept the sequels.
I keep saying this but the problem with the prequels was the execution whereas the problem with the sequels was the concept. If the problem is the concept the problem is unfixable: no matter how hard you “flesh it all out” the outcome is still the same and it ruins the original characters
Did the first 2 seasons have the force gods? Did they have the space whales? Did they have the whils? Did they have the world between worlds? Did they have inhibitor chips? Then they werent the worst seasons. By far.
@@bluehero-96You don’t know much about television. A show can get significantly better after a couple of seasons and there plenty of examples. Here are just three from the main rival to Star Wars Star Trek. Star Trek The Next Generation is a show that struggled to find its footing in the first two seasons with the general problem being that it was trying to be TOS 20 years too late. Fans agree outside of a handful of episodes such as The Measure of a Man or Q Who (the former of which is considered by the entire cast and crew to be their first good episode) it wasn’t until Season 3 where the show got good. The term Growing the Beard is even used to refer to a struggling early show getting really good as progresses a reference to Jonathan Frakes who grew a beard between Seasons One and Two. Exhibit B: Star Trek Enterprise was another struggling show with the first two seasons again being a TOS/TNG/Voyager show that didn’t really work because the characters were generally unlikeable and the return to a TOS-style main trio and a few side characters when the TNG-onwards series had ensemble casts. The Third Season became a significant improvement with a darker serialized storyline and the wise decision to abandon the existing plot line the writers were making up as they went along. Season 4 got even better with the show focusing on fixing the unpopular elements and plot arcs leading it to act as a proper prequel to TOS leading up to the founding of the Federation. Star Trek Picard is yet another example. In Season 3 it went from another attempt at a Darker Trek series and stopped making the title character pathetic. Now the series became proper finale for TNG bringing all the original actors to reprise their roles and even reviving the Enterprise-D which was destroyed back in Star Trek Generations.
@emberfist8347 You don't know what you're talking about. If TNG was bad for the first few seasons, it would have been canceled. It doesn't have the same financial cushion Star Wars does.
What were the problems with the prequels? Not the best acting, weird dialogue, and to an extent character choices and plot developments that didn't make sense on first watch. I would argue that you can get the necessary character and plot elements, because I have seen first time viewers pick up on it, they're just not the majority. Hence the elements are there, just not executed in the most effective ways. But you can at least make the argument that it's a single story that does progress naturally on it's own, so the foundation is there The Clone Wars took that single person's vision of that singular story and reframed it or made certain aspects of it clearer. What were the problems with the sequels? No one knew what the hell the plan was. How would I describe the sequel trilogy? It's a road trip where they switch out drivers without telling them where they're going and each driver decides the route and the destination, then they try to get back on course when they realize that it went the wrong way and then blamed the kids in the back as opposed to the adults who should have planned the trip. Real genius move on the part of this company's 4 billion dollar gamble Someone with a lot of talent and passion might, key word MIGHT, be able to do for the sequels what Clone Wars did for the prequels. I thought Mandalorian might have served that role in clarifying what the Empire actually brought to the table for people who liked the rule under it. But all that show has done is make it look like the bad guys came back because the good guys were a bunch of bureacratic idiots. But I personally think you need to have genius level writing skills in order to sort out this mess of what we got in those movies. It's the Gordian Knot of Star Wars writing
Hey Thor, I’m a little bit younger than you, from the OT VHS generation. I never liked the prequels, and only watched Clone Wars (not all of it, mind you, perhaps about half) after Rebels started to air. TCW was a fine show, but they don’t “improve the prequels” for me. With what little I interact with the prequels, I still see all the flaws in them-the stilted characterization of Anakin, the obliviousness and bureaucracy of the Jedi order, the pointlessness of TPM, a terrible and inauthentic love story, etc.-and wish George had cared more to follow the story and universe he set up in the OT. So, I suspect something similar would happen if they made a sequel trilogy galactic conflict explainer show: it would probably be decent and enjoyable for what it is (and that’s if they get the OT heroes right) but do nothing to polish the giant turd that was TLJ, for example. And yes, the prequels were divisive! It wasn’t just a media vs. George Lucas situation at all, although he didn’t really help himself in interviews (he sorta had a Rian Johnson-esque tenor when defending Jar Jar and mischaracterizing other fan critiques). Star Wars fans of the OT generations wanted the movies to be great, and they just weren’t, for most of us anyway.
The prequels didn’t need saving. The overall plot of the 3 movies was actually good. There was a coherent narrative, unlike the sequels. The execution, dialogue and acting was questionable but overall was still enjoyable.
No it really did need saving
Let's compare this:
Anakin a character who develops and changes regularly
Has a personality and motivations
The problem was that he did it with a bit cringe and sometimes way too quickly
The Clone Wars explained the reasons for these changes and made them seem almost natural
Meanwhile Rey
In The Force Awakens she wanted to belong and then her arc was literally forgotten
She has no motivation, no development and no personality
A series about her would be ignoring the sequels and pretending that this character has any motivations. It wouldn't work. Rey is the definition of a narrative trap
💯
Let me preface by saying that I would prefer they reboot the sequel trilogy; accept it just didn’t work and redo it. That said, I don’t think it’s accurate that a new series of movies, if better written, couldn’t redeem the Rey character. If someone actually wrote a really compelling story around that character and the movies were genuinely good, we would just ignore the sequels and pay attention to the good movies now available to us.
Anakin in the Clone Wars show was NOT the same person who became the character in the Revenge of the Sith. 🤣
@@Buckeyesteve10The problem isn't so much the Rey character as it is the depiction of every character. Fin is a stormtrooper who defected, and this is ignored. Poes character is torn down in the last jedi. Luke tries to murder his nephew in his sleep and goes away to die. Han is a deadbeat dad whose entire character arc throughout the original trilogy from selfish smuggler to Aliance General is undone. Simply creating a better Rey movie will not undo the damage done to these characters and the franchise.
Thor : “We are already seeing far less hate towards the sequels these days “
Star Wars fans : “ Oh I don’t think so “
Exactly, I still HATE Last Jedi for disgracing Luke, and no amount of new Rey related content is going to fix what we got in the sequel trilogy, since it will be all the stuff we should have seen Luke do. I have no Idea where Thor got this idea from.
@@FreemanCanadaSame, I remember watching it when I was 10 and thinking "why is Luke like this?"
I used to hate EU.
Then I read EU and grew to like it expansion upon the lore, not destory it. Love the Legacy era, the real sequel.
I still hate Disney canon. Can't really enjoy the good star wars made by EA, (Ironiclly) because it all lead to the Sequel.
I think somebody is overestimating how much the prequels were “hated”. They received their share of people that could not stand them. But that number of people multiplied by A LOT for the prequels. There is an easily noticeable difference between the love the prequels got and continues to get and the amount of that for the sequels.
When i was a kid, The Clone Wars was everywhere. Nearly everyone watched and loved it and even the kids who didn't watch the show, collected the trading cards. Of course we kids all loved the prequels. I didn't see the flaws of the movies back then. It was a really cool time, trading cards, discussing Clone Wars and playing on the playground as our favorite Jedi
When I was a kid Lego star wars was as prominent as star wars itself
@@jeremyscungio16 yeah you're right. Everyone played with lego Star Wars or played the games. It was so cool
The Clone wars was really Mixed the Show was meh and the outside stuff was Hit and Miss Trading cards were OK but TCW Had so much attrocious garbage beginning with the movie ,the terrible Games and Lackluster Comics.
@@laisphinto6372 That comes with the territory when making an anthology series. TCW had very the lowest valleys and the highest peaks, in the same season at times.
@@laisphinto6372 No the games are fantastic as was the movie.
Those movies are not going to save the Sequels, nor do Rey justice either. One reason I dislike those movies, besides how much an utter mess the story was, and how badly written the characters were...it feels like Rey honestly didn't earn her victory and status as the new builder of the Jedi Order. She doesn't struggle throughout the films or suffers a major defeat that makes he grow as a person or character. She's basically the same character at the end as she was in the beginning. Everything just felt like it was all given to her.
You want Anakin's lightsaber? Here you go!
You want Poe's droid? Have it!
You want the Millennium Falcon? I'm sure Chewie won't mind!
Are you saying you hate women??
I don't think many SW fans had their opinions on the PT changed from bad to good by TCW. Sure, a few did change their minds and many felt at least a little better about the PT once TCW came along but by and large those who disliked the PT still did during after TCW. And the dislike of those for the PT was a small thing compared to the anger generated by the ST. It's like building something on a bad foundation. No matter what you try to build on top of it, the foundation is still bad.
Like them or hate them, the prequels didn't need saving. The trilogy stood on its own and spawned a generation of fans and spin off products, the clone wars being one of them. Each prequel movie seemed to generate mor hype, not less. The sequels as far as I can tell don't have the same wealth of a younger fanbase. It seemed to lose appeal the longer it went on. I don't see anyone asking for more sequels.
This is just not true all people i know personally love the sequels and most young people love them its just sad to see what happend with the prequels getting repeated with the sequels and its all just so hypocritical all “arguments” that the sequels are “bad” can just easily be debunked by anyone who has common sense if you dont like them fine but dont try to speak for other people because thats just not the true what your saying, do better!
Truth be told, I get a bit annoyed when some people say that the clone wars “saved” the prequel’s. The prequel‘s had some flaws with the romance writing but overall, it’s a very well done story. In other words, it’s fine without a TV series. However, A TV series can’t save the sequels, because the trilogy itself is so unorganized and it doesn’t respect the classic characters & lore.
For me, the prequels were as bad in comparison to the OT as the sequels are in comparison to the PT.
In my opinion, they definitely needed saving. They had some cool ideas, striking visuals, and good world building. But the story and script needed MASSIVE rewrites, and as those are the two most important elements of a movie, I don't think they can be called "good" as a whole. Especially AOTC. I rewatched that one the other day, and it took all my willpower not to fast forward through a 3rd of the film.
IMO Episode 2 is almost unwatchable.
@arthurfisher1857
You do realize that you've just admitted that TCW is just revisionist fanfiction, right?
@@bluehero-96 Is it a bad thing?
@arthurfisher1857 While I agree AotC isn't a great film, I do think the underlying story works as a larger story. Lucas essentially sets up a Greek tragedy where trying to avoid a prophecy (Padme's death) brings about the prophecy.
The sequels probably did more to make them look good by comparison.
But I think they're also easier for OT fans to ignore. They don't really undermine the OT the way the sequels do.
I have real problems with the perception that Filoni's Clone Wars "saved" the Prequels. There was already plenty of expanded material including books, games, comic books, and a prior Clone Wars TV series by Genndy Tartakovsky. The Prequels didn't need "saving," especially not by a frankly unoriginal, cherry-picking, fanfiction-esque creator whose claim to fame was directing a few episodes of Avatar TLA.
It “saved The Prequels” in the sense that mass audiences were able to think positively of this time period. Most people just prefer to watch video content over reading books. So having the show air on CN and Netflix, exposed more people to the lore and context of the prequels, than the books did.
@@aaroneclipse514But it didn't do that. The prequel hate continued until TLJ came along. The sequels are what indirectly saved the prequels. Not TCW. TCW was also pretty divisive and not popular among EU fans.
@ Not necessarily. TCW reduced a significant amount of hate that OT-fans and non-SW fans had for the prequels. When TLJ came out, practically any remaining hate for the prequels was erased. TCW is only controversial among EU fans, but overall most people think positively of the prequels since TCW exposed more people to context and better stories.
@@aaroneclipse514 A Jedi with the name "I'm Gonna Die" is better stories, really? Plus there's a reason EU fans hate TCW, is that the representation of EU elements on screen are overtly simplified and dumbed down. There are people out there who'd have loved them as proper adaptations, like anime, but Filoni was never going to do that, sadly.
@@saberiandream316 You misunderstood my point: when I said "better stories", I meant better than the movies can show. Because Ep. 1-2 are considered bad movies by most of the general audience and OT SW fans. I do consider the UE as the superior canon, even though I still believe TCW is quality, but the prequel films are inferior to both.
As a lifelong Mandalorian fan, boy I hate what TCW did to the lore. Initially, with the historical context from the EU intact, there was promise there but DAMN, once the house of mouse blew the expanded universe up it went right into the pit
What Filoni did to the witches of Dathomir is even worse. I wish TCW could be removed from the EU as Legends, it hurts the timeline the longer it's part of the continuity.
@saberiandream316 oh god it's true. Look at how they massacred our babies
I swear every inconsistency from the EU Prequel time Period IS Just TCW existence before TCW IT was the best and Most consistent Timeline of the entire EU with the Clone wars Multimedia Project having all Kinds of Media working together consistently. The gaslighting IS real from EU haters saying the EU IS inconsistent and they Bring Up TCW AS a scource.
So you hate the complex nature of the culture. You really prefer Karen’s Mary Sues?
@@saberiandream316Except it doesn’t.
The Clone Wars didn't save anything
I wish it should!
@zshah3107 What does that mean
@@lukescrew1981 Stop Condradicting & focus on some consistencies!
@@zshah3107 Yeah
TCW broke the universe it was supposed to be part of.
short answer: No
long answer: NO
TCW didn't saved the prequels. The thing is, the prequels tell a story that works by it's own, and beyond that: it expanded the star wars lore immensely and opened space for more stories, thus The Clone Wars. Now... I'm afraid I can't say the same about Rey. Or the sequels.
It did save the prequels in the sense that more people was exposed to the context and lore of the time period that the films didn’t have time for.
@@aaroneclipse514 I get your point.
@@Sam-VhosKheella-cj3yu TCW only contradicts stuff
@@lukescrew1981 Yeah, maybe some things here and there, especially from the EU. But overall i personally think it's a great show.
@@Sam-VhosKheella-cj3yu It's really not
Honestly, the prequels were fine as it is. It didn't need saving. If anything, TCW kinda expanded the prequels ( most of them ).
Even the original 2003 CW did the prequels justice at that time.
But it should never Condradict something anyway!
TCW didn't expand upon established canon. It tore it down.
@@SkywalkerFoeno it didn’t
@@lakernation26 Yes it did. It contradicted the movies and EU alike.
@@lakernation26 Yes it did
Something I have noticed about the prequel trilogy amongst my generation (gen x ) is that those of us who skew younger and saw the OT as children are a lot more forgiving of the PT than the older gen X-ers. A lot of people my age were initially not too fond of the PT , but we were willing to give TCW and attempts to make the story better a chance . As a result , a lot of us have grown to appreciate the PT a little bit more in the past decade . We don’t love it , but it’s not as bad as we originally perceived. However, many of those from Gen X who were tweenagers or just starting adolescence at the time of OT are adamant in their dislike of the PT and don’t seem to want to give it a chance to improve . They also hate the ST , but to their credit, they don’t seem to hate it any more than the PT . They just hate everything that’s not OT . In fact , they seem to hate everything about life in general.
The Prequels did not need saving. And even between Attack of the Clones and Revenge of the Sith we got the Tartakovsky Clone Wars, which are awesome!!
The later cartoon just added to them. I would argue that Lego games had as much to do with that era of SW fans. There was a big crossover between the kids who grew up with the Lego Star Wars games, who also watched the cartoon.
My first introduction to the clone wars was my mom finding a lego game on the Cartoon Network website
Fans will not come to accept the sequels or leave the fandom. Thats not what we are seeing. Those fans reject the Disney cannon and instead follow the EU cannon. Much like fans reject the Kelvin timeline in Star Trek and instead follow and are fans of the prime timeline. Basically what Disney has done is to split the fanbase. With seprate camps of what is the true events and history of the Star Wars Galaxy.
I saw the Clone Wars movie in theatres, but I didn't plan to. At the end when they showed everyone together with the music I fell in love with the idea. It gave me that OT rush I had missed.
I'd love to see future Rey get heavily nerfed and, trying to find why, get to talk with Anakin ghost, and he tells her that all the awesome things she did, it was him all along, since the moment she touched his lightsaber. Then Rey has to work very hard to gain power again.
I had a similar idea. A lot of people forget that the force, as mysterious as it is, is somewhat sentient and has its own will and agenda. With so many force users having gone extinct, and the main users (other than Luke and Ahsoka) being the darksiders Snoke, Palpatine, and Kylo Ren, the Force would have needed to choose someone to surge through in a powerful way in order to bring back the balance. As Snoke said in TLJ "Darkness rises, and light to meet it." So I think her being so powerful was the Force itself trying to radically undo the imbalance. That said, I think a good way to move forward would be for her to rapidly start to lose her power after TROS, similar to Spider-Man lost his power in the second movie. She would wonder why and be shown by ghost Anakin and Luke that now her role has been fulfilled, she has to train and study harder to actually earn the title of a Jedi rather than having it handed to her, like all the Jedi before her. Since her being the sole remaining powerful force user would imbalance the force. It would be a story opportunity to explore the nature of the force and of its balance.
I also have a head canon that Anakin has taken on the role of the Mortis father as a divine like being. And his position in the World Between Worlds allows him to reach through time and space to enforce the will of the force. So all of the "plot armor" moments is explained as him acting out unseen for the overall greater plan of the Force.
That would be interesting.
I think an issue the sequels have is there's very little about the setting that allows for stories that can't also work if set in the OT aside from legacy characters like Rey; if your working with a mostly original cast, truly any sequel story could be pallet swapped to the ot with minimal rewriting
You can't do that with the clone wars era because there's enough unique elements to the setting, you can't really tell story featuring the Droid army in the sequels or a Senate corruption plot in the OT
Honestly, Forget Rey, how about bringing back The Skywalker & Solo children in Sequel trilogy era indeed, yes!
Yeah I fully agree. That’s the main thing that bummed me out about the Disney sequels. They killed off the Skywalker/Solo family. Pretty much the heart of the franchise. Bring back that family tree man.
The prequels had lot of good stuff and potential in them to expand and shine light on as well as solid overarching story under the hiccups. It was being already built on concurrently in the CW multimedia projects well integrated with the novelisation and could support later the likes of Plagueis that with the earlier Cloak of Deception can make even episode I seem like a masterplay on Palpatine's part... Those are imho miles better than TCW (said as someone who's seen and loved TCW first), which had the benefit of being on screen.
I haven't heard of much connected good stuff growing around the sequels save some standalones here and there (which often may have been undermined by the chaotic unplanned proceeding of the "trilogy") but that may be I didn't look properly, as I grow irritated every time a project starts bending to connect and build up to the sequels. I just can't imagine it could be redeemed enough, support something really worthwhile... it being the destination is really an udermining factor for me when brought up. I feel like any great project would be only undermined by it if properly integrated, whereas PT has great projects by leaning into its inherent elements. But I massively biased.
The sad truth is that even tho I love the clonewars, the actual size of the fanbase is smaller than many of those direhard fans are willing to admit. sure there are plenty of mega fans for it, but the vast majority of regular starwars fans could care less about it or dont even know of its existence.
The TCW fanboys know that Like they Tell people Not bothering to watch the movie or the First seasons of it, Showcasing why many people dont Like IT Not Just EU Fans going along with absolutely garbage TCW Material Like the Games , Comics and books that were terrible No wonder IT wasnt that popular especially during its running time only the ones who endured became the TCW fanbase
@@laisphinto6372You are really ignorant to the series actually quality.
The only way to save the sequels is to give more context to Luke and Ben's relationship. Inspite of Luke's teachings Ben constantly leans on his darker impulses instead of embracing balance.
But if you insist on using Rey, you will have to deconstruct the character to rebuild her. She can't girlboss her way through things.
I will never watch anything with Rey short of a retcon of the entire sequel trilogy
I'm sick of this "TCW saved the prequels " narrative. The prequels were beloved by fans at the time of their movie runs. It was a few critics and RedLetterMedia that started the prequel hate train that dominated the internet before the Disney buyout.
And OT FAN boys 🤣who claimed George ruined their childhood
I love red letter media, but their plinketts review of the prequels is just terrible
This is just not true, dude. Many of us who grew up on the OT were very disappointed by the prequels. Certainly it’s fair to say they weren’t as controversial as the sequel trilogy, but it’s simply inaccurate to say that they were universally beloved.
I have to concur. As much as I grew up as a kid with the OT in the cinema and loved the PT, they were not well received by fans or critics. The animated CW were necessary to help add gravitas to the lore. Time heals all wounds…
@@Buckeyesteve10 amazing at how much history is trying to be rewritten. It's one thing to say "I liked them when I was younger" cool but this takes the cake.
Nope, I think the sequels will always suck.
I think I agree with you for the vast majority of people
but I do personally know 3 separate people that did indeed not like the prequels and ended up coming around to liking them because of the clone wars
so while I think that is rare I know from personal experience that it did actually happen in some cases.
I also agree that in general people like me that despise the sequels will likely just not ever go see anything more to do with rey
personally I feel like I have an obligation to watch everything disney puts out labeled star wars
I am also in the camp of I always loved the prequels so the clone wars didn't have that kind of affect on me
if / when these rey movies come out I will end up watching them with an open mind (I really just want to love and enjoy new things star wars I don't want to be constantly disappointed)
but I really don't think there is anything they could do to make the sequels tolerable
The sequels are so far gone past George's vision that even if they convinced George himself to come back to make these rey movies with the only single stipulation being that he can't overwrite the sequels
I honestly believe that even George himself couldn't write something that could redeem those movies
Hey Thor, I was one of those people who didn’t really like the prequels and yet absolutely loved the clone wars animated series. Maybe I’m a fluke but to me the series filler in many issues and gave a ton of life to the whole story while adding so much more interesting content and characters in the process. Frankly, it made the prequels for me much more tolerable
The Prequels always have good things about them. They had a strong unified story to tell and that story is fun. I never saw the Clone Wars because I can’t understand how Anakin got an apprentice.
The Sequels are absolutely trash, totally destroyed the lore established by the previous six movies . No good characters and a story that bounced around with no goal . The EU is vastly superior.
It’s really hard to tell sometimes times. Depending on who you listen to it can go either way. But if you have the prefect writer and director you can definitely do it. They just seem to be sorely lacking in those things.
Personally, I like the idea that there are different versions of a vast, ever-evolving story. Like directors cuts or special editions of films, differing versions can exist at the same time; we can choose which we prefer. To me, that’s preferable to having one single version that I don’t particularly like. Another example is the original human actor of Jabba; I really like that scene (in it’s unedited state) and find the idea of an alternate universe human Jabba really intriguing. But I love the Jabba we got and I can like both ideas at the same time.
I think the best argument in favor of this working was the Lego Holiday Special with Rey as the main character being well received. But I get that it's a big stretch that that would happen. That special had much more humor and familiar side characters than this project could have, and when The Mandalorian and The Bad Batch tried to build towards the sequel narrative that was controversial in itself.
TCW didn’t save the prequels, TCW doesn’t even make sense with the context of the films.
Exactly.
Except they do you clearly haven’t watched them.
@ I’ve watched every episode, most multiple times actually. Are you trying to tell me that I haven’t seen any inconsistencies between TCW and the movies?
@ I haven’t because they don’t exist those claim they do clearly didn’t see it or miss vital details. Give me one example of where there is a contradiction with the films.
@@emberfist8347 Dooku constantly fights Obi-Wan and Anakin when their words make it clear they haven't met since Geonosis.
I was 12 when TCW came out. Pretty much wrote it off immediately as “not real star wars” since it was animated and I didn’t like the style at the time (or animation in general really at that point). I was THE target audience and didn’t care at the time. Today I absolutely love it though and regret not giving it more of a try back then
With the volume of Star Wars media you have to put together your own head cannon to enjoy it the stuff you don't like just forget about it .Yoda once said you must" Un learn what you have learned." like you said there are some episode that are not that good and some that are very good.
The Clone Wars and the Old Republic MMO was what really got me into Star Wars I had seen the original trilogy and the prequels and I had some interest in the franchise
For me personally, I didn’t watch much of the Clone Wars series when it came out. When it came to Netflix my younger brother binge watched them and told me how good it was. I don’t think I’ve watched them all consecutively, but I’ve seen most of them now.
Honestly though, I think video essays on RUclips were what made me appreciate the plot and story of the Prequels. I was young when they came out, liked them at first, but disliked Jar Jar, the Anakin-Padme awkward romance, and how quickly it felt that Anakin turned to the Dark Side. I enjoyed the video games, like the og battlefront games, and the toys. But it was really the video essays on RUclips that helped me realize how interesting the plot and story was (despite its flaws). I don’t mind Jar Jar or Anakin’s fall to the Dark Side in Episode III anymore (I still cringe at the romance scenes in Episode II). But I am able to enjoy the Prequels a lot better now. Also, the problems of the Sequel Trilogy made me appreciate the Prequels more.
To add to your point, I don’t think the Sequels have enough depth to make them more enjoyable. The most in depth analysis only shows how poorly it was written. There’s not a new perspective that makes it more meaningful. At least for me.
My dad grew up with the OT, and hates the prequels. I’ve put in a good word for the clone wars so many times and he still refuses to give it a chance.
So Thor is so right here. If someone hates something, they’re probably not going to give its complimentary material a chance.
I think the Sequels are much worse than the Prequels ever were, even at their worst, and if Lucasfilm is banking on some sort of "Clone Wars Effect" to save them, they are simply throwing good money after bad with new Sequel era content.
I didn't watch the clone wars when it first came on cartoon network. At the time i was more into teen titans and ben 10.
Although slowly but surely the clone wars grew on me and it's the reason i became a fan of star wars in the first place and it's the best animated show in the franchise.
Hey Thor, As you noted, one of the reasons that many people feel like TCW saved the PT is around how it added into the time gap between AOTC and ROTS. But, it couldn't have done that without something to work with there. What is there for Disney to work with to grow Rey?
The clone wars series just helped enhancing the underlying story of the prequels, which was actually pretty good. The prequels had much lesser flaws than people claimed, it was more the slight deviation from "established" canon (which was perceived larger than it actually was, most was from the extended universe and not actually confirmed by Lucas), wooden dialog and underwhelming characters, and that got addressed with the series.
The problems of the "sequels" are not only this, although they got that in spades, too. They have horrible characters (no character really stands out, even Rey is pushed into our faces, but forgettable) , weird, non-connected stories, no memorable dialog and the openly and proudly move from any canon at all, mixing up everything from jedi powers to technology as the authors decided on a whim.
But the biggest point is: the sequels were designed to trash the original series, trash their memorable characters, trash their victories, trash practically everything that came before them. Any extra series cannot build upon this, except if the series, too, want to be trashing on the originals, too, which of course would have no "saving" effect at all.
2008 clone wars is not has popular has fans thinks it is.
worked for me. my friends pushed me to watch the clone wars, and i always defelected, thinking of it as kids stuff. but thankfully i gave in. watched the clone wars, had a lot of rough moments with it, but in the end, it may have been the most emotionally engaging content since episode 6. to me, the clone wars elevated the prequels from a meh 6/10 to a very respectable 8.5/10.
Hey Thor, I've noticed that fans of Rey are or were intrigued by her connections to other people, but not so much drawn to her as a character in her own right. Who is she related to? How is she going to train and interact with Luke? What about her dynamic with Kylo/Ben? Could she pair off with him or someone like Finn, or Poe?
Simple : The Clone Wars fits in the Ep. II and III gap (around 3 years and bring more context to the Prequel Trilogy's end) while the rumored Rey movie/trilogy would be set after the Sequel Trilogy so even if the new content is good, it will not "save" what appened before.
Nah, the sequels are cooked. Always have been. The closes thing that gave Episode 7 more depth was the Battlefront II (2017) Campaign story that focused on Iden’s daughter and the people she used to know that joined the First Order. Other than that, it’s too late to fix any of it. They could’ve put out more games and material in between the sequels but they just rushed through all that. There isn’t even a time skip in between 7 and 8. No air to breath whatsoever to expand on them in any way. I could care less what happened during that era anymore.
No, disrespecting the OG characters can't be fixed for many. Dear lord, close the book on the sequels already. I wish Lucasfilm would move on.
To be fair, about season 3 or 4 CartoonNetwork switched The Clone Wars from Friday nights to Saturday morning. And I've heard the idea of Saturday Cartoons often in my teens-adult life but can't relate to it. Any fellow 2000s kids feel free to say contrary, but how many of us spent Saturday mornings lazing in bed, happy to have two or, if you had to go to church on Sundays, one day in the week you didn't have to get up early.
Which is why my Clone Wars experience was had a many years gap between the first half and second, with me rarely being up early enough to catch an episode back then.
And honestly the TCW First seasons we're straight Up garbage Like AS a Kid i got bored quickly with them and watched the Prequels instead or Heard the Labyrinth of Evil Audiobook. I think people retro actively overrestimate how popular TCW was Back then. The Video Games flopped for a reason
I feel like Rey could be saved by "The Clone Wars effect" if the project was given to a good writer. To me, if they tried to fix Rey's character, I'd like a series called Star Wars Resistance Reborn, which would be a two-season series that follows in-between the events of The Last Jedi and The Rise of Skywalker. Make Rey Flawed, make her go on a character arc that changes her as a character for the better (Instead of sticking to who her Family are/Lineage as her arc.) But again, it needs to be given to the right people. An idea that I like is: What if Rey Lost Her Connection with The Force? That she relied too much on her connection with it in the last two films, leading then to The Force in itself removing her ability to use it. It then takes Leia and Force Ghost Luke to then properly train her in the ways of a True Jedi, and then by the end of series, she'd get her connection with the Force back. (Kinda like Spider-Man 2, in a way...)
The Clone Wars didn't "save" the prequels. They were always a good story that suffered from moments of poor execution. The novelizations helped, as did watching the cut scenes. Never watched The Clone Wars cause I dislike the narrator and the art style... forced myself through a few episode, but didn't impress me much. I'm not knocking anyone who did enjoy them. My nephew loved them... just not for me.
Rey might benefit from stories that give her an actual character arc, but that won't fix what the sequels did to the OT characters.
I would love to see a sequel Clone Wars style animation
Hey Thor, I was wondering if you had a chance to see the two small fan made Star Trek movies about Spock and Kirk from Otto studios? Apparently Paramount has even licensed these movies following the Picard finale which ties in both the Kelvin and Prime timelines and sets up the new movie currently in preproduction! Wouldn’t be great if Lucasfilm treated their fans with the same level of respect in regard to the lore? Love the channel and as always MTFBWY…
If you allow me a metaphor: the clone wars added color to an already awesome drawing!
Hey Thor, have you watched any of JJ Plagarism’s videos?
I was a teen when the prequels came out. I, like everyone else, thought they sucked. I actively avoided the clone wars in all its forms. It wasn't until my 30's that I checked out the clone wars and enjoyed some of it, but it was the release of The Last Jedi that finally made me appreciate the prequels.
To be blunt.
Episode 1 had flaws.
Episode 2 had its charm and flaws.
Episode 3 ended it.
Episode 7 had its charm and flaws.
Episode 8 had lots of flaws and broke the fan base.
Episode 9 had no freaking idea what to do and also pissed off the people who liked episode 8 and the fan shipping.
To be blunt... Prequels had its fans.
The sequals has probelms.
The prequels had clone wars.
The original trilogy had Rebels.
The Sequel mess had Resistance... How many people remember that show?
The sequels are a black hole that sucks everything in, kills everything, and leaves nothing left to be made from the mess.
100% anecdotal.
I watched the first season of the Clone Wars and did NOT like it.
Then some random guy on RUclips who called himself a Skywalker recommended me to give it another shot and...
Now I LOVE The Clone Wars and Rebels.
So, thank you Thor :).
Btw, what is your opinion on sand? (I ALWAYS ask Skywalkers that question)
Fuck the 2008 Filoni Wars show and all the bullshit retcons it made to THE EU
Still to this day the only thing in the 2008 Filoni Wars that i will say is a genuinely great thing is the mortis stuff but outside of that when Anakin and obiwan were there nothing in that shitshow is any good (Notice how o didnt brong up ahsoka yeah anakin necer had a Padawan especially not that mary sue worthless character)
You don’t know what Mary Sue is. And the show hardly retconned the EU unless it was something George already had in mind.
Ahsoka struggled a lot, and developed a lot. She was arrogant and bratty early on, but that was the point. She was a fucking teenager! What 15 or 16 year old isn't at least a little bratty and snotty? She learned how to be a leader, she learned how to fight and to save people, and to think for herself, and she admitted as much. Like her or not, she does NOT fit the definition of a Mary Sue by any means. Also, proofreading and checking grammar is our friend ;)
The clone wars built upon the prequels. It was so successful due to great writing and the era bring so interesting. The prequels acted as a solid framework because despite what you say about execution, the overall story was consistent and solid.
I don’t think that TCW saved the prequels for me but that’s probably because I loved the prequels until much later in the social media age when I saw the hate. It didn’t change my opinion of the movies much but I do agree with some of the arguments made. I haven’t fully watched TCW but what I have I feel only added to it. If Lucas film does the same to Rey I’m more then open but given there track record as of late I really think the problem isn’t Rey the problem is the people writing her. She has a deep compelling story to tell but I don’t think the people writing for her have the mental depth to walk the story needed to tell that story.
A good building needs a good foundation.
It was actually the other Clone Wars series that made me enjoy the first two prequels more. I really didn't think they were that good at the time and I also did not like the Clone Wars movie at all but the first Clone Wars series was very good in my opinion and changed my view of Episode One and Two greatly.
Good points. On the money as usual.
7:45 “new lore”= continuing to fuck up previous established lore and continuing to make the Force sentient and messed up compared to the original films. 😅
I really wish Thor would stop filtering TCW through the lens of his George Lucas admiration. TCW was pure Filoni.
My opinion when TCW was going on , George Lucas honestly didnt Care anymore that much especially how often filoni contradicted and went behind Lucas Back to Change stuff, Something that wouldnt Happen previously. Also Something i absolutely despise about TCW fanboys IS whenever TCW IS praised its all Filoni ,but whenever you critize TCW oh its suddenly that was all George Lucas or now with Disney its all Kennedy fault. I hate Kennedy Disney wars AS well but at some Point WE have to critize the scared overrated cow filoni for all the BS He IS making Up .
The Force had been semi-sentient for a while, but otherwise I agree.
@@saberiandream316You are proving you know less than Thor.
I think the big difference is the environment the Sequels have been released into - the modern viewer is way more picky, as the endless hours we spend discussing entertainment online nurture one's critical eye.
Basically, we have less casual viewers these days and more critics. I can imagine myself liking the Sequels, if not for the hours spent analyzing (and hear others analyze) what the Original Trilogy characters are "supposed to be about".
though some would have passed on the Clone Wars because of it being animated and deeming it to be a "kids show"
They could. If they would have even remotly try to make and atempt to move on from the clonewars. Season 7 was the end but bad batch was literally a clone show. And tales of the jedi was set during that time one of thouse stories was even about ashoka that is basically the clone wars. When the sequels where over they just left them there. and the fans dont give a crap after ep 8 and 9. Heck literally some *LEGO* specials Are the only thing that i have seen adressing the sequels after they ended...
It won’t save anything because that flashy thingy from Men in Black isn’t real. Unfortunately we DO remember what we saw.
I don't think the sequels can be saved by any sort of Clone Wars like show, but I do think the characters from those movies can be saved if you give them a good story and some actual character development.
I was a casual Star Wars viewer and frankly, I don't recall most people actually thinking the prequels were bad. They were considered inferior to the originals for sure, but never that bad. The prequels looked good, had enjoyable actions of light saber battles, spaceship combat, people shooting each other with the pew pew laser guns and there's the ridiculous space monsters and a lot more fun stuff. The problem was just that most of us casuals could not take the story serious and the harder it took itself serious, the more it became a joke. Despite that, Star Wars was enjoyed the most when shit went down. In the end, we thought the show fun to watch, but the story ridiculous.
Even if someone that didn't like the prequels watched the clone wars, I have a really hard time believing they would have liked the show, let alone enough so to make them come around to the movies
The problem is Resistance was Disney’s chance to do this. But they screwed it up.
I’m not a fan of the animation of the human faces but even those are preferable to Hayden’s expression in AOTC. The acting in general is far less wooden, too. There are a few episodes that I really like.
Yah I think it will unite fans… as the few that remain make a mass exit.
The clone wars didn’t save the prequels, if anything it added context. The other thing is that the vast majority of the fandom agrees that certain parts of the prequels were good. Duel of the fates, the clone parts of attack of the clones, and Revenge of the Sith is widely popular. The sequels? They don’t even have that.
Hey, Thor , i was curious, recently ive been hearing some different news out of Lucas Film, and i got to be honest, im really not excited for any project thats slated to come out besides Andor season 2. Im a lifelong SW fan, and its one of, if not my all time favorite franchises and stories and universe ever! the prequels practically shaped my childhood imagination and ive loved it since i was young. However i really havent enjoyed much of anything from Disney Lucas Film since their purchase of the company. That's mainly to preface my question to communicate how sad it is that i havent been interested in a SW project in a very long time. its lost the "magic". so Im curious if theres a Star Wars project that you're most looking forward to, and why?
Have a good day!
I've never met someone who likes the clone wars in real life. It's very much a "beloved by the active online fandom" thing.
I am never giving Kennedyfilms another chance for theatrical releases unless it's a Tony Gilroy ONLY project. Rise of Palpiwalker broke me for anything involving "the main story." And Mando lost me when it became the platform for ten shows (most of which never happened) and was clearly being steered into justifying the ST.
I gave TCW a chance even though I recognized the prequels weren't very good because I still that much of an SW fan then. I'd rather watch the prequels - at least the tonal confusion was mostly limited to ROTS.
Cool for those whom this might work for. But I'm over the sequels for good. I'm enjoying my hobby selectively now. I'm down to see any new stuff that might be interesting, but I can easily disregard everything else that isn't.
I can only speak for myself but Anakin only became a good character in the show. In the movies he is a child oblivious to the over arching plot, an angsty teenager destined to fall and then a rush to the dark side by the end. It felt like a documentary of a historical figure rather than his story. The show had so many stories about Anakin just being Anakin, the jedi knight. His flaws weren't so petty and obvious. He was a leader, a warrior, a mentor and a good friend. He was a wartime jedi while most of his peers served during peacetime.
The Thing is they didnt Develop Anakin in TCW they Just Made Up an entirely different Character and took beginning of Episode 3 Anakin for the entire Show remember this was suppose to BE Episode 2 Anakin Just a few weeks but somehow He IS now a knight freaking Yoda Trusts him with a padawan. The 2003 Clone wars much better Handling Anakin actually using Episode 2 Anakin and developing him into Episode 3 Anakin. TCW gets praised for developing Anakin when they Just pretended Episode 2 Anakin didnt exist at all
Now i'm just waiting for the Star Wars what if series
With the yuuzhan vong Starting their invasion a few months before the Revenge of the Sith
And at being animated and rated, MA
Its because of the clone ears series we lost out on chop sockie chooks. Ill never forgive that.
2 & 1/2 minutes in ....Yes!!! Exactly 💯!!!!
Clone Wars definitely did that for the Prequels (i was 10 when TPM came out and wasn't a fan, really didn't like AotC but did like RotS) but nothing will make Rey a good character or redeem the sequel trilogy.
Pretty simple Thor, Netflix is definitely watched by more people than CN because adults and older kids likely would not/never watch it and you can watch it anytime
It was more than Rey that was the issue with the sequels. It was also the character assassinations of legacy characters. The lack of care with Fin and Poe. Any good Rey movie, I would say, would just showcase just how bad the sequels were.
Hey Thor, how about a video comparing the Legends and canonical versions of Mandalorians, then saying which you prefer and why? Thanks as always for the work you and Naboo do.
To me I prefer the canon version. I like them more as flawed fractured society to show how the mighty have fallen over the millennia and it makes them more interesting that Karen’s Mary Sue culture.
The thing is the prequels even if you hate them had a clear through story. Most importantly it didn't shit on what came before. The most someone could agrue that it does is the midclorians but that's microscopic compared to the shit the sequels did to what came before. It even screws up its own new characters.
On average, gen-x hated the PT and didn't watch TCW; Millennials loved the PT (+ the multimedia project) and many of the latter ones watched TWC; Gen-z really enjoyed the TWC and thus enjoyed the PT. The PT wasn't saved by TWC changed people's mind, it was just Millennials and gen-z dominating the internet.
Meanwhile, its been 9 years since episode 7, the kids who saw in theater now dominate the culture on tiktok and they aren't fighting for the ST the way Millennials and gen-z on reddit/etc did in the late 2000s and 2010s
👋
I did not like the prequel movies. I have not watched the clone wars or rebels. I don’t trust Dave Faloni like some fans seem to implicitly do.
I will not watch a Rey show or a resistance show.
I don’t care what is made, I am a consumer who doesn’t take everything in. I watch what looks good or has something more than just Star Wars.
Filoni is a hack and a fake fan and no lore master.
@ I’m sure he is a fan, I just think he isn’t that great of a writer or directors
@@DAMitAlI He's no friend to the EU community.
@ oh, yeah, no. I have no doubt that he isn’t a fan of the EU. Star Wars in general, sure many movie and tv show people are. But I don’t believe he cared about the EU and may even hate parts of it.
@@DAMitAlIHe does actually care. It is thanks to him Grievous has his old backstory. Among many other things.
The CW series did make the prequels better even if you loved them from the beginning.
But I don't see any chance that anything can make me in anyway like or even accept the sequels.
I keep saying this but the problem with the prequels was the execution whereas the problem with the sequels was the concept.
If the problem is the concept the problem is unfixable: no matter how hard you “flesh it all out” the outcome is still the same and it ruins the original characters
Did the first 2 seasons have the force gods? Did they have the space whales? Did they have the whils? Did they have the world between worlds? Did they have inhibitor chips?
Then they werent the worst seasons. By far.
It amazes me how TCW fans bend over backwards to justify it's existence. No, a show doesn't "git gud" after three seasons. Especially not TCW.
@@bluehero-96You don’t know much about television. A show can get significantly better after a couple of seasons and there plenty of examples. Here are just three from the main rival to Star Wars Star Trek. Star Trek The Next Generation is a show that struggled to find its footing in the first two seasons with the general problem being that it was trying to be TOS 20 years too late. Fans agree outside of a handful of episodes such as The Measure of a Man or Q Who (the former of which is considered by the entire cast and crew to be their first good episode) it wasn’t until Season 3 where the show got good. The term Growing the Beard is even used to refer to a struggling early show getting really good as progresses a reference to Jonathan Frakes who grew a beard between Seasons One and Two.
Exhibit B: Star Trek Enterprise was another struggling show with the first two seasons again being a TOS/TNG/Voyager show that didn’t really work because the characters were generally unlikeable and the return to a TOS-style main trio and a few side characters when the TNG-onwards series had ensemble casts. The Third Season became a significant improvement with a darker serialized storyline and the wise decision to abandon the existing plot line the writers were making up as they went along. Season 4 got even better with the show focusing on fixing the unpopular elements and plot arcs leading it to act as a proper prequel to TOS leading up to the founding of the Federation.
Star Trek Picard is yet another example. In Season 3 it went from another attempt at a Darker Trek series and stopped making the title character pathetic. Now the series became proper finale for TNG bringing all the original actors to reprise their roles and even reviving the Enterprise-D which was destroyed back in Star Trek Generations.
@emberfist8347
Exhibit A of a TCW fan trying to defend their favorite fanfiction without knowing what their talking about.
@@bluehero-96 I know what I am talking about. Don’t believe look at the Rotten Tomato ratings of each season of the Star Trek shows I mentioned.
@emberfist8347
You don't know what you're talking about. If TNG was bad for the first few seasons, it would have been canceled. It doesn't have the same financial cushion Star Wars does.
5:44 Because it was a trash show that was poorly written and shit all over Star Wars writers’ creations. 😒
Only the worst writer Star Wars had at the time. And one of the worst writers period.
What were the problems with the prequels? Not the best acting, weird dialogue, and to an extent character choices and plot developments that didn't make sense on first watch. I would argue that you can get the necessary character and plot elements, because I have seen first time viewers pick up on it, they're just not the majority. Hence the elements are there, just not executed in the most effective ways. But you can at least make the argument that it's a single story that does progress naturally on it's own, so the foundation is there
The Clone Wars took that single person's vision of that singular story and reframed it or made certain aspects of it clearer.
What were the problems with the sequels? No one knew what the hell the plan was. How would I describe the sequel trilogy? It's a road trip where they switch out drivers without telling them where they're going and each driver decides the route and the destination, then they try to get back on course when they realize that it went the wrong way and then blamed the kids in the back as opposed to the adults who should have planned the trip. Real genius move on the part of this company's 4 billion dollar gamble
Someone with a lot of talent and passion might, key word MIGHT, be able to do for the sequels what Clone Wars did for the prequels. I thought Mandalorian might have served that role in clarifying what the Empire actually brought to the table for people who liked the rule under it. But all that show has done is make it look like the bad guys came back because the good guys were a bunch of bureacratic idiots. But I personally think you need to have genius level writing skills in order to sort out this mess of what we got in those movies. It's the Gordian Knot of Star Wars writing
Hey Thor, I’m a little bit younger than you, from the OT VHS generation. I never liked the prequels, and only watched Clone Wars (not all of it, mind you, perhaps about half) after Rebels started to air. TCW was a fine show, but they don’t “improve the prequels” for me. With what little I interact with the prequels, I still see all the flaws in them-the stilted characterization of Anakin, the obliviousness and bureaucracy of the Jedi order, the pointlessness of TPM, a terrible and inauthentic love story, etc.-and wish George had cared more to follow the story and universe he set up in the OT. So, I suspect something similar would happen if they made a sequel trilogy galactic conflict explainer show: it would probably be decent and enjoyable for what it is (and that’s if they get the OT heroes right) but do nothing to polish the giant turd that was TLJ, for example.
And yes, the prequels were divisive! It wasn’t just a media vs. George Lucas situation at all, although he didn’t really help himself in interviews (he sorta had a Rian Johnson-esque tenor when defending Jar Jar and mischaracterizing other fan critiques). Star Wars fans of the OT generations wanted the movies to be great, and they just weren’t, for most of us anyway.