Great overview and I like your style! Personally I really enjoy Root, I love the asymmetric nature and the fact that factions don't play the same. I came to this having played a number of the COIN (counterinsurgency) games by GMT like Pendragon and Falling Sky, which are a considerable step up from Root. I think a lot of players get pulled in by the woodland theme and then get surprised by a wargame! Subbed following this review 👍
@@BoardGameBollocks I have not. The theme doesn't appeal to me as I prefer ancient historical conflicts. Saying that I've got my eye on A Distant Plain and would love to try that.
Are COIN mechanisms generic across titles or does each game have its own distinct set of rules? Are they like 18xx in this regard? Not played any you see...
@@BoardGameBollocks the basic principles of 4 asymmetric factions with overlapping interests and the game powered by a deck of cards is the same across all COIN systems, but each implement it differently. If you've played one you definitely have an advantage in picking up the rule set for a new one.
I think they made the eight sided dice instead of 4 because it rolls better. And I think dominance cards are ment as a sort of last resort for someone falling behind with points - when you know you'll never catch up you can try to win by dominance card.
Got root because of the hype, and like you, I enjoyed it but couldn’t get it to the table... until I found the clockwork expansion that creates automa for all the factions (not just the marquis). It allows for a solo experience and learning the intricacies of the different factions (including those in the expansions)
With all the recent buzz on this game your review was a great way to cut through the mountain of mechanics info, and deal with the “should I buy it?” Question. Spot on, great review!
Thanks again for the review. Teaching others to play is a big factor for me. I am still trying to get my group into board games. Simple to play and enjoyable is the biggest factor for getting a game to the table for us. I love TI4 but can’t get the crew to commit to it because it is too heavy for them. Looks like I give Root a miss as it will probably sit on the shelf with Dune.
We’re probably gonna get rid. Not cos it’s bad but because we have too many dust magnets this will just be another one. It occupies a unique space that simply isn’t compatible with our setup.
Gotta say that your rules summary was actually done pretty well despite the disclaimer at the start. Might be worth pointing out that Ambush cards allow you to deal two casualties to your opponent before a battle so won't always prevent it entirely. I can totally see your point about the game - it's certainly not the easiest one to learn and teach, especially for players who haven't had much experience with area control/war games. However there are some great tools that help you get to grips with it. The prescribed 2 turn guide is an excellent way to go if you have the full 4 players. Simply deal everyone a faction and start with the first player. The active player reads out loud what they are doing and why before passing it to the next player. By the end of the 2nd round of turns everyone should have a rough idea of what their faction is all about. As you said the player boards are excellent references. You can't really go too wrong as they all clearly list what you can do in each phase. This isn't to say that you won't need to look up the odd interaction, or that you won't be caught out by a few gotcha rules, but following the guide we were able to get a game with new players finished in about 2 hours, which really isn't that bad for this sort of game. I had a MUCH harder time learning Vast (previous offering from Leder) as the characters in that don't really have ANY common mechanics (e.g. moving, battling and crafting). Overall Root is an acquired taste and definitely better for dedicated groups who are prepared to get invested in multiple plays, but it really is a fantastic asymmetric war game if that's what you are looking for. As you said it's just not for your group and that's totally understandable, at least you can say you gave it a go. 👍
We experimented with the hand holding but like many games that have the baked in tutorial it didn’t feel like you’re actually playing the game. Some good examples are Legends of Andor, Fog of Love and This War of Mine. All have you trawling through a heap of half rules before you actually get to play the full game. At least Root gives the option of jumping in feet first. Haven’t decided if it’s staying or going yet. Will prob dump it...
@@BoardGameBollocks I can totally see that. However for us it felt like the first 2 turns were taken by fairly competent players so we just viewed it as everyone starting on a even keel, but still with the danger of completely messing it up after taking the reigns. I really enjoy Root but I am also lucky enough to have a group who are used to playing lots of area control games with asymmetric abilities (Chaos in the Old World, Kemet, Forbidden Stars etc.) so it's definitely in our wheelhouse. I'd say you really want a group of 4 that are all equally keen to get your money's worth, otherwise it's probably not worth hanging on to. Maybe wait until it's hard to get again before selling it though!
@@BoardGameBollocks Bonfire you say? Sounds like there's quite a few that have met that fate then! Alternatively you could always gift it to someone who is a glutton for punishment. ;)
@@BoardGameBollocks That is very understandable. Nevertheless, Grab a copy of Tsukuyumi :) 1st edition was a standees version, with beautiful paintings, and all the stats on each standee (cardboard unit). 2nd edition was a miniatures version, and all the stats was on the faction board. Some say that at least in that issue - The 1st was much more convenient to flow with... If you like area control with deterministic combats - You might enjoy this creation a lot. The imagination, the passion of the creator bring to the world something new, refresh, and unique, with perhaps - much less buzz and impact as it should have, for such an original ambitious vision.
I have to agree with you. No matter how good a game is that enjoyment is tempered by the degree of difficulty I face in learning and/or teaching it to others. This is especially the case as i am the one of my friends who collects games and, by default, is the teacher for everything we play.
@@BoardGameBollocks I empathise. I watch a tutorial on this title and thought "hell, no". Thanks for another great video review and honest refection on a hot title.
I just played my first game of Root ( and won as Eyrie Dynasties)- but I couldn't put my finger on why I didn't enjoy myself playing this game. I think the random nature of the cards and the complex rule set was reason, at least with the Eyrie's mechanics. Reliance on a set pattern of cards you can't mitigate or curve to your need meant either being unable continue the creed of stifling your progress as you focus on lesser key areas just to keep the pattern going, which broke momentum where it was needed. Over all maybe I wasn't a fan just of that faction rather then the game as a whole
I got a copy of Root and the riverfolk expansion for real cheap and was really excited. I finally had a chance to play it but felt kind of disappointed with the experience . It does feel like work to play it. I’ve been hanging on to it because I worry I’ll miss out on something or maybe I just haven’t found the right group yet . Idk... maybe about over hyped of a game? The good news is it has very good resale value.
I ended up getting rid of it. I did wonder if it was worth keeping when river folk got reprinted but the prospect of re teaching the thing with even more rules was too much.
From the end sum up, does this game suit people who play fairly often but don’t have 100’s of games or the need to churn through to review? I think the cute nature belies the complexity and may catch some folks out because a light breezy game it is not!
I kicked the tires on this game so I'm glad for your review. I have Vast Crystal Caverns by Leder Games, which I've yet to play, and I'm hoping it's better than Root.
@@BoardGameBollocks I love both Root and Vast. Vast is way more asymmetrical though and experimental. I enjoyed it for how much thought Leder games put into it. But I must admin, the learning curve is tougher than in Root. At least in Root, even though the characters are different, they follow the same 3 phases.
As I said in the review, we enjoyed it but couldn’t invest enough time to really see everything. I’m a bit gutted as I’d really like to see the expansions. Sadly not to be...
Like you say it's more like a wargame than a boardgame, so I think you'd need to treat like a wargame and have your opponents actually buy the box and each learn a different faction on their own, but that's not really practical for most people. They released a follow up to it a while ago, looks even more complicated. o_0
We tried the more in your face war versions of the COIN system, and even the ightest of them just wasn't worth it in our opinion. I'm sure they are great war games, and yes, they are euro war games, but we couldn't get past the learning curve and found it a bit boring. We thought maybe the cute animal version would work for us, but I just don't think it's for us.
Игры
Great overview and I like your style! Personally I really enjoy Root, I love the asymmetric nature and the fact that factions don't play the same. I came to this having played a number of the COIN (counterinsurgency) games by GMT like Pendragon and Falling Sky, which are a considerable step up from Root. I think a lot of players get pulled in by the woodland theme and then get surprised by a wargame!
Subbed following this review 👍
Always fancied picking up Andean Abyss and Liberty or Death. Have you played either of those?
@@BoardGameBollocks I have not. The theme doesn't appeal to me as I prefer ancient historical conflicts. Saying that I've got my eye on A Distant Plain and would love to try that.
Are COIN mechanisms generic across titles or does each game have its own distinct set of rules? Are they like 18xx in this regard? Not played any you see...
@@BoardGameBollocks the basic principles of 4 asymmetric factions with overlapping interests and the game powered by a deck of cards is the same across all COIN systems, but each implement it differently. If you've played one you definitely have an advantage in picking up the rule set for a new one.
I think they made the eight sided dice instead of 4 because it rolls better.
And I think dominance cards are ment as a sort of last resort for someone falling behind with points - when you know you'll never catch up you can try to win by dominance card.
Good point. 👍🏻
The 0 is key as it means no losses.
Got root because of the hype, and like you, I enjoyed it but couldn’t get it to the table... until I found the clockwork expansion that creates automa for all the factions (not just the marquis). It allows for a solo experience and learning the intricacies of the different factions (including those in the expansions)
I looked at the solo thing but I rarely play solo games other than Mage Knight. Mage Knight is so good nothing else can dislodge it.
Love watching your reviews! Best board game reviews out there!
I know! He is the coolest bg reviewer ever. People need to discover this channel asap! Share often!
Thanks for the kind words Michelle 👍🏻
@@BoardGameBollocks you're very welcome!
With all the recent buzz on this game your review was a great way to cut through the mountain of mechanics info, and deal with the “should I buy it?” Question.
Spot on, great review!
Cheers Steve 👍🏻 Did you pull the trigger?
BoardGames4K I may at some point, but I’m in no rush
Nice video, thank you for the work done.
13:30 Pieces are: warriors, pawns, buildings and tokens and items
Rulebook doesn’t make that clear mate...
Thanks again for the review. Teaching others to play is a big factor for me. I am still trying to get my group into board games. Simple to play and enjoyable is the biggest factor for getting a game to the table for us. I love TI4 but can’t get the crew to commit to it because it is too heavy for them. Looks like I give Root a miss as it will probably sit on the shelf with Dune.
We’re probably gonna get rid. Not cos it’s bad but because we have too many dust magnets this will just be another one.
It occupies a unique space that simply isn’t compatible with our setup.
Gotta say that your rules summary was actually done pretty well despite the disclaimer at the start. Might be worth pointing out that Ambush cards allow you to deal two casualties to your opponent before a battle so won't always prevent it entirely. I can totally see your point about the game - it's certainly not the easiest one to learn and teach, especially for players who haven't had much experience with area control/war games. However there are some great tools that help you get to grips with it. The prescribed 2 turn guide is an excellent way to go if you have the full 4 players. Simply deal everyone a faction and start with the first player. The active player reads out loud what they are doing and why before passing it to the next player. By the end of the 2nd round of turns everyone should have a rough idea of what their faction is all about. As you said the player boards are excellent references. You can't really go too wrong as they all clearly list what you can do in each phase. This isn't to say that you won't need to look up the odd interaction, or that you won't be caught out by a few gotcha rules, but following the guide we were able to get a game with new players finished in about 2 hours, which really isn't that bad for this sort of game. I had a MUCH harder time learning Vast (previous offering from Leder) as the characters in that don't really have ANY common mechanics (e.g. moving, battling and crafting).
Overall Root is an acquired taste and definitely better for dedicated groups who are prepared to get invested in multiple plays, but it really is a fantastic asymmetric war game if that's what you are looking for. As you said it's just not for your group and that's totally understandable, at least you can say you gave it a go. 👍
We experimented with the hand holding but like many games that have the baked in tutorial it didn’t feel like you’re actually playing the game.
Some good examples are Legends of Andor, Fog of Love and This War of Mine. All have you trawling through a heap of half rules before you actually get to play the full game. At least Root gives the option of jumping in feet first. Haven’t decided if it’s staying or going yet. Will prob dump it...
@@BoardGameBollocks I can totally see that. However for us it felt like the first 2 turns were taken by fairly competent players so we just viewed it as everyone starting on a even keel, but still with the danger of completely messing it up after taking the reigns. I really enjoy Root but I am also lucky enough to have a group who are used to playing lots of area control games with asymmetric abilities (Chaos in the Old World, Kemet, Forbidden Stars etc.) so it's definitely in our wheelhouse. I'd say you really want a group of 4 that are all equally keen to get your money's worth, otherwise it's probably not worth hanging on to. Maybe wait until it's hard to get again before selling it though!
I don’t do price gouging. I tend to put crap games on the bonfire 😉
@@BoardGameBollocks Bonfire you say? Sounds like there's quite a few that have met that fate then! Alternatively you could always gift it to someone who is a glutton for punishment. ;)
Thank you for the review.
Speaking of Asymmetrical games...
I wish you will review:
1. Tsukuyumi: Full Moon Down
And Leder Games -
2. Vast
3. Oath
We don’t have any of those. I don’t think Vast and Oath are games the others will won’t to play 😢
@@BoardGameBollocks That is very understandable.
Nevertheless,
Grab a copy of Tsukuyumi :)
1st edition was a standees version, with beautiful paintings, and all the stats on each standee (cardboard unit).
2nd edition was a miniatures version, and all the stats was on the faction board.
Some say that at least in that issue -
The 1st was much more convenient to flow with...
If you like area control with deterministic combats -
You might enjoy this creation a lot.
The imagination, the passion of the creator bring to the world something new, refresh, and unique, with perhaps - much less buzz and impact as it should have, for such an original ambitious vision.
I have to agree with you. No matter how good a game is that enjoyment is tempered by the degree of difficulty I face in learning and/or teaching it to others. This is especially the case as i am the one of my friends who collects games and, by default, is the teacher for everything we play.
This one done my head in...so much so we’re dumping it
@@BoardGameBollocks I empathise. I watch a tutorial on this title and thought "hell, no". Thanks for another great video review and honest refection on a hot title.
12 sided dice so that you have 0-3 equaly distributed on the dice
May as well have 3 D4 then...makes no sense.
I just played my first game of Root ( and won as Eyrie Dynasties)- but I couldn't put my finger on why I didn't enjoy myself playing this game. I think the random nature of the cards and the complex rule set was reason, at least with the Eyrie's mechanics. Reliance on a set pattern of cards you can't mitigate or curve to your need meant either being unable continue the creed of stifling your progress as you focus on lesser key areas just to keep the pattern going, which broke momentum where it was needed. Over all maybe I wasn't a fan just of that faction rather then the game as a whole
I got a copy of Root and the riverfolk expansion for real cheap and was really excited. I finally had a chance to play it but felt kind of disappointed with the experience . It does feel like work to play it. I’ve been hanging on to it because I worry I’ll miss out on something or maybe I just haven’t found the right group yet . Idk... maybe about over hyped of a game? The good news is it has very good resale value.
I ended up getting rid of it. I did wonder if it was worth keeping when river folk got reprinted but the prospect of re teaching the thing with even more rules was too much.
From the end sum up, does this game suit people who play fairly often but don’t have 100’s of games or the need to churn through to review? I think the cute nature belies the complexity and may catch some folks out because a light breezy game it is not!
I kicked the tires on this game so I'm glad for your review. I have Vast Crystal Caverns by Leder Games, which I've yet to play, and I'm hoping it's better than Root.
We’ve not played Crystal Caverns but it looks like a novel idea.
@@BoardGameBollocks I love both Root and Vast. Vast is way more asymmetrical though and experimental. I enjoyed it for how much thought Leder games put into it. But I must admin, the learning curve is tougher than in Root. At least in Root, even though the characters are different, they follow the same 3 phases.
As I said in the review, we enjoyed it but couldn’t invest enough time to really see everything. I’m a bit gutted as I’d really like to see the expansions.
Sadly not to be...
@@BoardGameBollocks oh for sure! I don't think this game is for everyone. Thanks for your thoughts!
Like you say it's more like a wargame than a boardgame, so I think you'd need to treat like a wargame and have your opponents actually buy the box and each learn a different faction on their own, but that's not really practical for most people. They released a follow up to it a while ago, looks even more complicated. o_0
Is that Fort? They just announced that they’re not using KS for that reprint...hurrah to that.
We tried the more in your face war versions of the COIN system, and even the ightest of them just wasn't worth it in our opinion. I'm sure they are great war games, and yes, they are euro war games, but we couldn't get past the learning curve and found it a bit boring. We thought maybe the cute animal version would work for us, but I just don't think it's for us.
Seems like a great game if you had a reliable group that likes to play the same game over and over. Alas I do not so I shall pass, shame innit.
Prob getting rid of it...too much like hard work for us.