The Episode That Warned Us About Chibnall's Doctor Who
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- Опубликовано: 1 окт 2024
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No, Chibnall, I'm not mad, I'm just disappointed. Well, I am mad too.
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#DoctorWho #Series3 #Review
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Comments on this one will be...interesting.
By the way, thanks for 20k subs!
Your brave creating this sort of video!! You'll have the looney left after your blood!!
saw this coming a mile off
I didn't mind this story as rtd probably tweaked the story so it fits better with his vision as showrunner
the problem is you have to remember the core of the story is still written by chubby, the follow-up stories he wrote have the same problems and thats why when the doctor regenerated into shitekicka I turned off, only Canon moment with her is the moment the tardis ditches her
Lol.
Oh Chibnall. His stories start off good, then they just.........end. look at the Power of Three. Maybe he is suffering from adult ADD.
Here's an example:
Once upon a time deep in the forest there was a house. And in that house lived an being. This being looked older than time itself.
This being grew tired of being in the house. Alone. So it decided that it will conquer first the near by village, the world and then the galaxy.
Then one day the Doctor and his perky young companion appeared and killed the being.
The end.
@@josephabrams4059 ...they start off good...???!
A ship in space with an imposter killing off people... while the rest of the crew has to complete tasks and games to succeed? And the reactor/engine is having a meltdown? Reminds me of a game....
Oh my god, it is.
XD
Hmm, you stole what I was thinking about...
Wait, what game?
@@SHADOW1414 Among Us.
I love the way Chibby complained about Doctor Who becoming too "routine Doctor Who" and yet makes the most "routine Doctor Who" episodes. Ironic.
That’s why his interview from the 80’s gets memed
Rules for thee but not for me.
He's a fucking HACK
Just shows that it’s easier to criticise bad writing than to write well yourself.
Chibby 😅
He is just not a Doctor who writer, he doesn’t really grasp the meaning of Doctor who in my opinion.
Im sure he’s a great writer, but just not a Doctor who writer
yeah, I loved Broadchurch so I had high hopes for Chibs but I was sorely disappointed
@@frances7575, that is fantastic, im glad you can see that I wasn’t trying to be single minded like screaming ‘i hate Chibnall!’
I agree, I just don't think that does any good! if we want to fix the issues we need better reasoning than "because I hate him, that's why"
He is a great writer. For crime. Broadchurch was absolutely fantastic, but his Doctor Who not so much.
Im sure he aint
Chibnall's writing is just dull. That's my issue with him. Like say what you want to about RTD or Moffat, but they were not boring. Chibnall's DW just feels stagnant and bland, like the ideas are there but they don't want to explore them. Same with this episode, the concept and idea isn't that bad, but Chibnall does nothing with it. He adds nothing to elevate it, so it ends like a drama rather than sci-fi show.
Like there are very interesting possibilities and ideas you can do with a female Doctor, but Chibnall does nothing to explore them. He's trying way to hard to make 13th like the others which in turn makes her worse. You have a female doctor, why are you trying so hard to make her like her male predecessors. Have her embrace being a female and do something unique
Davies and especially Moffat had loads of idea (Moffat had so many sometimes I wanted to smack his face and tell him "We know you're clever! Now just give us a story!"). Chibnall had a couple of things in his mind, most of them dull, and so he had to reach back all the way to the Hartnell Era and destroy everything I loved about Doctor Who.
@@jvblhc true. Rtd and Moffat actually had their ideas and visions, Chibnall's era just feels more corporate. Like you can tell, its the executives and producers who are now driving the storg rather than the writer.
So when is Chibnall getting fired?
@@iusedtowrite6667 he just seems to use her gender to attack men. Every comment is a negative when gender is mentioned... she could have been so much better, look to ripley in the alien films to see how to do it. He and the bbc are to busy box ticking to actually be concerned with what these characters that they have box ticked actually do.. dreadful..
Chibnal when he became show runner: "BURN WITH ME!"
Hey dawn
@@jedwisner6038 Hello there
showrunner used to mean something
now it means how to kill a show
wonder if the next showrunner will be worse
@@snakedaemongaming6590 hope not lmao
i hope the next showrunner RETCONS EVERYTHING CHIBNALL LMAO
@@TheZProject115 you and me both
im still holding on to the thought that the door is still knocking
everything since is in the doctors head
I like how medic woman is just casually Rosa Parks
"Ma'am, you have to get off the bus"
"BURN WITH ME!"
Nobody:
Medic woman:
*is Rosa Parks*
Sally Donovan from a Sherlock
Omg I didn't notice that till now (possibly because I skipped the Rosa Parks episode after like the first quarter)
@@stevenhale2935 “If you don’t get off this bus, I’ll have you arrested”
Rosa Parks: *Lowers glasses* “Burn with ME!”
I think the saddest part about this episode, is that it is still probably one of Chibnall's better episodes. I mean I would watch 42 over 'The Battle of Ranskoor Av Kolos' (yes I went to Wikipedia to see how you f***ing spell it) or 'Ascension of the Cybermen' any day.
Agreed! It's a little adventure episode with The Doctor and Martha. I never skip it, but I would never say that it was a great episode or a "must watch". And, to pick up on a point of yours, it is so much easier to say "42" than saying "The Battle of Krankor Columbo" or whatever the hell the title of that one was.
Chibnall episode titles be like: fjrufhddiiddjcjfje
@@jvblhc Some of the titles in the Chibnall era sound like someone smashed his head on a typewriter.
Tbh I find Ascension of the Cybermen to be one of the less unbearable Chibnall stories. It got ruined by The Timeless Children, of course, as everything else did, but before that, it actually had me gripped
@@fromthethirdplanet And some of the names of characters too. Tecteun? Sounds like a cream you rub your back.
the problem with Chibnall is the fact that he doesn't let us care about anyone. Every single one of the doctor's companions has been iconic from Rose all the way to Clara and even Bill Potts but I have no connection to any of the new companions it just seems like they're there for vibes
i don't know graham was actually a pretty good companion if you ask me but maybe i just really liked the idea of a slightly jaded old guy being along as a companion. then again he quickly became much less intresting as he soon became just another person along for the ride trusting the doctor mindlessly.
@@theguyyouhateit was a silly decision to start a new Doctor with three companions. Feel out the first few episodes and then stick with one? Sure that would have been fine and probably worked out ok, but three companions for two seasons? And none of them were handled well on top of that.
I disagree to an extent. Graham was always fun to watch, and his dynamic with Ryan gave us the only arc from Series 11. I feel that Yaz (excepting "Demons of the Punjab") only got more interesting around "Revolution of the Daleks" and the "Thasmin" teases. Dan's introduction was great and instantly endearing.
However, I do feel like the crowded TARDIS hurt things in the long term, and that Yaz's family wasted the domestic angle I was hoping for (especially after Chibnall gave us Brian Williams, the only good domestic stuff in the Moffat era).
You could call them tokens in a way.
@@wiseguymotionpictures1416 There had to be 3, so it is all inclusive. An old person, a black person, and a gay person, paving the way for all the mindless woke bullshit.
This Doctor Who episode is literally just a public lobby of Among Us
Omg yes
True
orange kinda sus
it really is lmaoo
Not wrong 😂😂
Just saying- I like how the Doctor, wearing a suit, the most sweltering outfit anyone on that ship is wearing, isn't sweating as much as the rest of the crew. I like to think it's due to the Doctor's low body temperature.
The Fourth Doctor didn’t so much as put his hands in his pockets when he went to Antarctica and he was completely fine. I guess Time Lords are just very temperature-resistant.
Id assume 2 hearts means a higher body temperature, meaning its easier to survive some hotter areas. If that makes sense? Less work for the body to regulate inside and outside temperature when theyre closer to begin with
@@zeallust8542 It's actually established that Gallifreyans have significantly lower body temperature than humans so... so... so that means absolutely nothing, because apparently the doctor isn't Gallifreyan. Sigh, I almost forgot for a happy second there.
@@Notanothercrayon The Time Lords spliced the genetic code of the Timeless Child into themselves. So they're effectively the same race as Timeless Children now anyway.
@@irrevenant8724 Tecteun didn't dump the doctor's entire genome into her own race, that would just be straight up erasing the Gallifreyan race and making a bunch of clones of the single individual doctor in their place. She spent years and years looking for what specifically coded for regenerative abilities. While it's possible she nabbed other traits along the way, it's not in any way implied that she did. It's also not in any way implied that Chibnall gives a shit about continuity or making sense, and I highly doubt he put that depth of thought into this idea of his.
Apart from Tennant, Freema and Murray Gold, I think Graeme Harper's direction helps to lift this story as well.
Those four elements you mention are why I like the episode even as I know it's no great shakes of a story.
Chris chibnall is a perfect example of how opening your Mouth about someone else’s work contradicts your own work. He needs to leave the show. Period
Its gonna be interesting when we eventually get a showrunner whos been active during the age of social media... you know eventually some Whotuber is gonna end up writing for, heck maybe even running the show... thats gonna be fun...
@@cybrus1645
Oh like Steven Moffat but for our generation?
I don’t see it going against set precedent.
@@Eckskalibur I mean like a millenial who has grown up in the age of twitter and youtube... active since before being a professional and having to apply that filter
I can't help thinking this channel creator will find his own words coming back to judge HIM one day lol
@@Eckskalibur Steven Moffat's a lifelong fan so he had a personal investment in making Doctor Who good. A genuine fan will always put more effort into their work than somebody who's just doing it for a pay check.
At the end of the first phone call, Martha could have said something like: "I'll call you later, if I can.", which would then explain why Saxon's...henchmen (and henchwoman) were there for the second call. It's not difficult.
Also what do they even expect to accomplish with tracking the phone when the Master can't even use the TARDIS he stole to find the Doctor?
@@Jedi_Spartan
To be fair, they didn't know that Martha wasn't on Earth, because why would they? They should just have been confused, as no result comes back. There was definitely reason for them to turn up and to try though. I imagine the trap has already been laid at her house, by now, because The Master knows The Doctor will come back to around this time at *some* point, if he survived and escaped the end of the universe.
@@Jedi_Spartan They know he isn't. Martha's mother doesn't... but "Saxon" and his henchmen know. The point is to check that Martha and the Doctor are still "travelling" & not in the nearby area whilst "Saxon" continues on his election campaign. Remember that they've got bombs already set in Martha's flat sometime after Lazarus too, and that they're gearing up to take her family into custody as soon as they hear any indication that Martha is returning to Earth. They're not listening in specifically for tracking.
@@JayDragonarcProductions Ok, that makes more sense.
I think a big part of why this episode was interesting is that it was the introduction of that formula. At the time it didn’t feel like a formula because it was the only episode, so despite being formulaic, it did actually stand out from the rest of the episodes and that season, and feel like a unique way of matching the quality. 42 is genuinely a good episode, I just wish we didn’t get three seasons of damn near the exact same thing
The sad thing is that none of his subsequent stories were as good as this.
All I remember from my first viewing of this episode was that there was some sort of mistake made the previous week so the preview after the Lazarus Experiment was actually the preview for The Family of Blood. I spent the entire time I watched 42 wondering when and how the scarecrows would come in.
I remember that 😂
I do remember that though second hand as I didn't catch doctor who live until matt smith started
I like this episode fine, it was never my favorite, but it's not horrible either. Up until he became showrunner, I never found any Chibnall episodes to be horrible, just alright at best (usually the meh writing was just overshadowed by some great acting from the cast) and kind of boring at worst (like The Power of Three). Then he became showrunner and things really fell apart.
I think for an episode in s11 or s12 being "meh" would be a crowning glory...
I think the problem was that he was “meh”. He could write an okay to watch surface level story, but they never said or did anything. And this was WITH established characters (for the Doctor and companions), over arching storylines, and already expressed themes by the current showrunners (RTD or Moffat), so what happens when Chibnall is in charge of all of this? Using 42 and dinosaurs on the spaceship as an example, they were okay to watch and that’s about it; not good or bad. They were sometimes a fun mindless watch BECAUSE they did nothing. The Doctor’s character wasn’t challenged; no substantial themes were expressed; no messages were made. The episodes just felt “just-kinda-there”. And they had interesting ideas. Dinosaurs on a space ship sounds cool and a living sun (personally I could argue that everything in the universe is alive so that was especially interesting to me), but none of those ideas ever went anywhere or were properly used. If you say something interesting and then trail off and don’t expand on it, I’m not going to care. Also I noticed Chibnall’s episodes both had a countdown timer (a simple trick to make the story seem more exciting and increase tension) and a lot of acting out by the characters. He very obviously didn’t know how to expand on his ideas or write something interesting back then and knew an hoped to distract from it
Probably just not a scifi writer.
@@vullord666 yes. I think the fact that the other episodes in the series were either good or very good there was a tendency for us all to overlook the bland (ie "Chibnall") episodes.
Power of Three got off to a great start - the slow invasion, the bored Doctor etc. Unfortunately the actor playing the Shakti was a complete jerk and most of his scenes were unusable so they had to hack together a new ending out of what they could salvage. :(
I remember people in the fandom complaining about Chibnall's writing as far back as 2010, not just in relation to Torchwood and Who but also Life on Mars and Ashes to Ashes. It frustrates me endlessly that he basically got the show runner job due to the success of Broadchurch rather than anything he did on Who, but I think consideration has to be given to the question of whether RTD or Moffat really did enough to encourage and nurture other talent, because there wasn't any obvious alternative when Moff left.
Mark Gatiss and Toby Whithouse both turned it down due to the crushing responsibility and Chibnall only agreed after the second pitch. He wasn’t the first choice and he didn’t even want it. The BBC put pressure on the production team when they should’ve spent a year looking for an ambitious and enthusiastic show runner. It’s no small secret that Doctor Who is an extremely unforgiving show to work on. The gruelling production blocks, fan anticipation and public expectations are too frightening for a lot of writers.
@@lewiskazinsky7334 to be fair, I don't think anyone would have been turning cartwheels at the idea of Gatiss or Whithouse as showrunner either. It's not good when you can't think of anyone in a group of writers who would make an interesting showrunner.
@@oldusernamewasbadlol Whitehouse would've been great because of his show Being Human. He gets how to have a show that's fantastical, which grounded characters, and knows how to balance drama, comedy, and plot.
"Who do we call to write a scifi time travel adventure series? I know, put the guy who wrote the worst modern Who episodes because he has one good soap opera."
Is there a reason Jamie Mathieson wasn't offered showrunner? He basically hit three home runs during the Capaldi years.
I love how chris chibnall critisised doctor who for silly monsters when in one of his first episdoes as show runner the monsters were basically blankets
The answer to life, the universe, and everything.
WOOOOOO
And a Queensize 🤔💪 remember river song
That is the greatest tragedy, he wasted a golden opportunity. Not one Douglas Adams reference.
I see you're using your Deep Thought for that answer
The answer to life, the universe, and everything. . . Don't watch Chibnall's Who!!!
The reason Chibnall's episodes before Jodie Whittaker seem generally better is because he wasn't the one who established any of the characters' personalities - the other writers already did that for him. So he can play around with the Doctor and their companions' relationship but he can't establish new ones. That's why "the fam" feels so disconnected
I don't really have anything against Chibnall but my god, it would be hilarious to see the 80s version of him watching "The Tsuranga Conundrum" for its running up and down corridors and silly monster!
But that's the thing though... when people bring up that interview - why hold a writer and producer who's been through many years of productions to the word of what they said as a teenage fan with no experience over 30 years ago?
I totally agree. We all say things we don't mean when we're younger. It's just an unfortunate case of people really disliking Chibnall and having this interview on TV that makes them feel like they're better than him.
@@joeduffy4547 Exactly, the real unoriginal cliche here is now people reusing that clip for a cheap joke. Pretty sure he even said in an interview before Series 11 broadcast that it was just some dumb shit he said as a teenager
Thats not even the worst part of the episode imo. I just watched it for the first time b4 reading any reviews and what gets me is that LITERALLY EVERYONE did more to save the situation then the doctor did. Because the doctor essentially made an indestructable monster a different ships problem. Any other doctor wouldve done more
@@212mochamanI have watched The Tsuranga Conundrum recently and she does mention the bomb it eats will satisfy its hunger for a long time so I guess she made sure to feed it something that would make it the least harmful after it was released. Hopefully, off screen she properly dealt with it before it got to another energy source.
I don't think the similarities between 42 and The Impossible Planet just on aesthetics, it's practically a list:
- stranded on space base/space ship with disheveled crews.
- Doctor and co. locked up from TARDIS because of the emergency on the space base/ship
- the space base/ship is *impossibly* heading on sun/black hole and it's unstoppable
- there some kind of power that attacks them by possessing them
- the crews died one by one, the chief is starting to feel helpless
- The Doctor and her companion got separated in the end and it seems like it's the end/death of The Doctor.
A lot of these points are just what happens in a typical base under siege story. Similar stories include Oxygen, Under the Lake, The Rebel Flesh, Cold War, The Doctor's Daughter, Waters of Mars, and I personally enjoy most of these episodes as they establish a good setting, interesting side characters, and a clear threat. However, I do think that 42 is the worst of these kinds of stories
@@EmTom44 The Doctor's Daughter was done really well tho, even when that fish person died you actually cared about him. And the episode shows Martha's compassion and medical skills.
@@larsswig912 Yeah I didn't say I didn't like them lol
@@EmTom44 But imo, the setting, the stakes and the psychic-based attack just too stands out to be similar. Not to mention how both of the story also have similar pacing and plot development. The aspect that differs the most is probably that The Impossible Planet - thanks to its two parter format - gives the space for the story to breathe and the characters are less forgettable.
@@Alia-bc3rc yeah I do agree that it isn’t really original enough considering impossible planet came just a year earlier
Always though this episode was an inoffensive bit of fun. Won't skip it when I get round to it on a re watch but don't exactly look forward to it. Probably a 6/10 not bad.
It’s an “ok” episode, not something I’d want to watch in my spare time tho
@@1Gidget Pretty much lol
Chibnall seems to berate characters sometimes for no reason? Sorry we didn't scan the sun for life? Sorry I didn't know that people were disposing of spiders in the thousands of trash bags my business takes in every day? How are these people in any way responsible.
TBF it was an illegal extraction. Leave the fact they basically committed a crime for the sake of mining energy, but if they're from the far future they should know that some planets still have life it, either with population or the planet itself. It's that recklessness from the Captain that caused most of her crewmates to be in danger.
42 in a nutshell
Random exec : "what if we take the impossible planet/Satan pit two parter and force it into a single episode"
Chibnall : "give this man a raise"
I'd honestly would have preferred a PG version of Torchwood's early days over this episode or series 11.
Also remove the devil, slavery discussion, interesting characters.
Actually it's more planet of evil the classic 4th Doctor episode about a living planet in which they take precious minerals and the planet gets angry and starts dragging the ship back towards the planet in a time limit, they have to eject the minerals to stop it
@@RassilonProductions lol its exactly same then 😂
Whut? Like the video specifically pointed out this episode has basically nothing in common with the Impossible Planet two-parter other than the costuming - which was included for continuity with the setting.
now that you mention it I had no idea this episode did the "set in real time" thing at all. usually in those situations you can /feel/ the clock counting the seconds, but here I don't think the tension was enough for me to notice - it felt like it was paced the same as usual
episodes written by chibnall which have a countdown
42
the hungry earth/cold blood
dinosaurs on a spaceship
the power of three
spyfall
Only decent one there is the cold blood two parter. Fight me
Compare with "countdown episodes" by Moffat and Jamie Mathieson (Face The Raven, Mummy On The Orient Express), which are far better written. I really don't dislike 42, but it's pretty average in the scheme of things.
@@peterjennings6072 i dislike spyfall the rest are very average
Power of Three always makes me sad because the first 2 thirds were so interesting to me, it was something new and interesting and I loved seeing the Doctor have to stick around... and then Chibs went and ruined it with that ending. I wish he had someone equal to him to bounce ideas off, I think he could develop his stories better then.
@@frances7575 to be fair the ending was because the director and actor who played the villain had an argument which meant that they had to change the ending.
Chibnall is a writer, that’s better off in dramas and grounded mundane stories, which is the complete opposite of Doctor Who
His mind just can’t adapt in sci-fi, or in bizarre fantasy, fantasy sci-fi, etc...
the fact that this is the weakest episode of series 3 just proves its the best season of new who
Well put, although I have it in second place after the Donna season. But not by much.
Shakespeare Code is the weakest for me. I know people like it but it leaves me cold. Series 3 is great.
@@glenaitken3471 the shakespeare code was one of the better ones for me - daleks in manhattan/evolution, the lazarus experiment, and gridlock were all misses for me, just not a fan of much of season 3
@@LukasOfTheLight Based season 9 fan
@@LukasOfTheLight s9 is a bastion of consistency? Heaven sent/ hell bent screams consistency to you, huh?
I'm not sure if a lot of people noticed, but the medic woman who is disintegrated first is actually Vinette Robinson, who plays Rosa Parks in series 11.
i was just about to mention that. i recognized the actress from sherlock haha.
It’s so hard having to crawl through seasons 11 and 12 just to see how Chibnall is gonna ruin the show.
I dont think ill ever bring myself to watch them. I just live in my own world pretending theyre not cannon
@@brittanystanton3705 Same.
I pretend Moffat and Chibnall are not cannon.
@@warringcommentsections6631 Moffat is amazing chibnall however is Okay not good not that bad just plain average
@@thedoctor1263nah Moffat turned the Doctor into a fucking assaulter in series 7
What are you on about 😂 @@gay4sswhovian
i always saw this as a background episode. like say you were flicking round the TV and this episode was on one of the channels and was the only decent thing on you would leave it on in the background whilst you are doing something else like cooking or ironing or stuff like that. you'll glance back now and then to see if it is still on but it doesn't catch your attention. it's just their on in the back ground for some background noise to stop you going mad in the silence. does this analogy make any sense or is it just word vomit?
10000% makes sense. I do the same thing.
@@saviourfade6849 Glad that someone else gets it.
Nah its definitely not a chibnall episode, it actually perfectly describes a situation lol
The thing that bugs me the most about Chibnall is the potential. Everything he writes in Doctor who has SUCH potential to be amazing for doctor who, but he just...mishandles it. Awfully. Everything he does feels like he writes ideas and then just never does anything with them. It's a shame really. His creative mind isn't too bad, it's just that when it comes to developing them he's abysmal.
Yeah, I know what you mean, I really does just seem like he has now intrest in Doctor Who and just does the bare minimum
I'm with this
Isn't that medic woman the actress who plays Rosa Parks in Rosa?
Yes, Vinette Robinson.
I never hated this episode, but I never loved it either. It was a nice time filler and it had David Tennant and Freema Agyeman, which is always a good thing. Interesting that while Chibnall couldn't come up with memorable background characters, he still had Martha shining throughout most of the story. Now think forward to some of the stories he did in the Whittaker Era, where he couldn't come up with memorable background characters, which should have led to at least one of the three Whittaker companions to step out and shine... and yet... nothing. They're still just there to cheerlead The Doctor and stand around looking like they don't know what to do. His writing, mediocre to begin with, has gotten worse. Within the first four episodes of Series 11, I knew the series was just not going to be that good and they should have gotten a different show runner (but I still like Kerblam, so sue me.) By the time they got to The Timeless Children, I knew I was done watching Doctor Who on any consistent basis.
Kerblam is actually quite fun and enjoyable during the plot and is one of my favourite Chibnall episodes but even so, man... That ending is so terribly conceived, rushed and poorly though out/ discussed it's actually horrendous.
@@ashholiday123 I hear you! But it was good until then, and for the Chibnall era, I'll take it.
"Mum, can we get The Impossible Planet?"
"We have The Impossible Planet at home"
The Impossible Planet at home:
Sorry, couldn't resist.
I thought as a one off story this one was entertaining but not memorable. This is mostly cause every episode after this is pretty much solid series material.
I should make clear though I dropped out of Doctor Who half way through series 11 so my experience with this story is limited compared to those who’ve seen more of his era.
to be a TINY bit fair..in the impossible planet, there was a very good chance the tardis was straight up lost, and with 42 it was just in a tardis sauna vibing the whole episode. so it makes sense the doctor wouldn't have been as worried in 42.
I actually find the fighting over the control keys buttons to be really cool because it establishes how the world works a little and it shows they are not just helpless at first.
Also, the reason the doctor has to climb outside to retract it is because the controls inside were busted, I thot that was obvious. This is actually something that Chibnall does wrong in 13th doctor episodes. Rather than just relying on the viewer to be clever enough to follow the plot he spoon feeds exposition.
I can never bring myself to blame a writer too much for the spoonfeeding. The longer you work on something like this, the more you come to understand that at least 60% of people watching are not that clever. Most viewers are indeed stupid enough to need the spoonfeeding. They also don't watch analysis videos, that hurts their heads.
@PosthumanHeresy
While it is true people are stupid, doctor whos success comes from nerds who think they are smart following david tennant and matt smiths rants and subtley getting the message. Every rant from jodie was a brick to the face. Usually the there are secondary drafts where other writers review and tone down exposition, but it feels like every episode of jodies was a first draft mess
@@sanddagger36 The success used to, sure, but that's pre-Superwholock.
Also the joke about the Beatles being classical music was already done in the Chase tbh
Beat me to it!
...That's the point. It's a callback to the same joke. Revelation of the Daleks also vaguely does the same with the DJ.
Why was Moffat showrunner- because he had a big plan for Doctor Who and wrote Blink, The empty child/the doctor dances etc.
Why was Chibnall showrunner- because the BBC wanted him to ruin the show or was only hired because of Torchwood and Broadchurch. If the BBC had the brain they would have either fired him sooner or just have ignored him.
Two people who deserve to run the show: Paul Cornell, Toby Whithouse. Perhaps there should be two people running the show e.g Whithouse and Cornell, Chibnall and Cornell, Gatiss and Whithouse or Cornell and Gatiss. Edit: I struggle to watch this episode.
I've always wondered whether Chibnall was actually the first choice. It might be the case that they did offer the job to some of the guys you mentioned and they declined.
I'd still rather see them in charge. Whithouse is great.
Doctor Who is such a challenging show, maybe it's a big ask to expect one person to run it alone. RTD and Moffat, being highly talented writers and true visionaries, were perhaps the exceptions that prove the rule. Given the complexities, perhaps it would be safest to have two people helming the show. That arrangement worked well in the Classic era, at least when they coupled an experienced producer with an experienced script-editor, not that they always got that right; just ask Colin!
I heard some big conspiracy on one of those borderline sexist/ racist DW criticism channels that nobody wanted to take the position because the BBC wanted to make the show very SJW, and Chibs was the only person who would take the role with that in consideration- also they said this to explain Capaldi leaving. It sounds pretty silly, but like I said the channel I saw this on was a little sketchy (the thing about the timeless children that pissed them off the most was the fact that now the first ever doctor is a female)
I think TV has changed since the classic era, so dual showrunnership isn't really a thing anymore.
Moffat writing tons of episodes under davids time helped
I wouldn't want Gatiss as showrunner actually. Most of his episodes are pretty bland too.
I cant lie i kinda like this episode its actually a time where we seen the doctor truly vulnerable and was totally dependent on the companion (which funnily enough is a very common occurance with martha more so than any other doctor who companion) and we seen in this episode how the doctor actually does value Martha highly in this episode along with gridlock and marthas future appearances after she left the doctor, which is contrary to the popular belief that the doctor didnt respect martha to which i have always strongly disagreed and this episode is a strong argument to my case.
He did like and respect her as a person, but after losing rose he wouldn't let himself get close.
Also the only time Ten wasn't a bitch to Martha 💀
I love how Chidnal apparently criticized the show as being heavily cliched. Meanwhile his first episode is almost nothing but poorly done cliches. Nice to know we’re dealing with an absolute hypocrite.
PS: I’ve literally never heard of this guy until now. But if 42 really was a good summarization of his work in the show. Then that’s definitely a problem for him.
Chibnall is an interesting case. I only saw 42 and the silurian two-parter out of his writing cause I only just ended season 9, but I can see that his way of writing is quite bad. He has ideas, he knows what to do, but he never goes above and beyond. He comes the first and second step, but not the third, final one and rather doing step 2 again.
Step 1: Ideas and story.
Step 2: querks and bits, reveals, reverse situations, atmosphere, the whole thing.
Step 3 (not used here): good execution, interesting characters...
then you should have seen
- Dinosaurs on a Spaceship (Series 7)
- The Power of Three (Series 7)
@@thatbloodypanda6989 Yea. I don't keep track of the different writers. If these were writen by Chris, than yes I saw them too
Chibnall's note to self: "Remember to have a countdown in every story."
Valid points, but I will always love this episode for its score, aesthetic, and for how it put the Doctor in a truly vulnerable position.
I actually always liked this episode -- the stakes were high, they were under a lot of pressure, there were two sun-possessed spacemen trying to kill them, and there seemed to be no way out. It got better when the Doctor was affected/possessed, and it really shows the strong connection that the Doctor and Martha has formed when she saved him. The episode also has a good foreshadowing element, and I honestly liked The Hungry Earth/Cold Blood from Series 5, too. I mean, they're not my favorites or anything, but they are not bad.
HOWEVER, I do hate what he has done to the show of Doctor Who. As an occasional writer, he wasn't too bad, but as a show-runner, he has completely smeared the show, and has no idea how to bring major elements together or give the actors anything to work with. What's worse is that he is completely went against what has been established as canon in the show for more than 50 years, and might as well as just killed it. I wish someone would come in and retcon all of the stuff that he has made "canon" in the last few seasons. Maybe the REAL Thirteenth Doctor hit her head while regenerating, and everything with Jodie, and everything that Chibnail wrote, has just been a dream.
Next is master piece two part story human nature and the family of blood.
am i the only one who didnt like that story? lol i just remember being put off by little jojen reeds speech about how great and awesome and larger than life the dr is? idk i prefer to think of the dr as a person who can do fantastical things, not IS a fantastical thing
I thought they were OK as a character piece, but wasn't a standout for me in Season 3. I tend to prefer episodes set in the future, rather than the past.
I loved that story
Ah, the Chibnall Who writing style-great ideas with terrible execution. The bad execution doesn’t change the fact that there are great ideas, but it does limit any appreciation we can form for them.
No lie, I thought the thumbnail said "Chinball".
80s Chibnall is the most realistic character he’s ever invented, heh.
You're so right! The problem with the Chibnall era is setting up interesting stakes & abandoning them. Like the Partition episode. I watch gymnastics, so I like to say, "Chibnall can't stick the landing" on any story!
Getting all the big boi sponsors
The Doctor not reacting as much as he did in The Impossible Planet to being cut off from the Tardis really makes...perfect sense? He full on lost the Tardis in TIP, it disappeared into the abyss of a deep dark cavern. He even assumes he's lost it for good, as he and Rose start to talk about going to live on Earth. It's a big deal. Here, it's just a classic case of being separated temporarily, it happens all the time, I don't see why he'd have a huge reaction when all they need to do is save the ship and then the room will cool down?
Also when Martha first calls her mum, we can clearly see she is at home alone. Martha has to hang up, saying she'll call back, and then about 10m later or whatever the government people are around. They were presumably listening in, or were contacted, and weren't just there waiting.
I think the best way to fix Chibnall’s mistakes in series 11 and 12 would be to retcon them by saying they take place in an alternate dimension. This would make Ruth the Doctor of this world and the timeless child. It also explains why the TARDIS explodes in episode 1 of series 11
Eh, when it comes to bad seasons of TV, I think it's best to simply ignore them rather than go out of your way to retcon them.
I was thinking, have the Timeless Child be the result of 11 rebooting reality, and have it be that 11 totally failed at making a perfect reboot and in fact changed a ton of things, including their own past. Timeless Child is canon to the new universe, not the old universe pre-reboot, but The Doctor is of both universes and lived both timelines' lives and everything is canon.
One funny thing though, the joke that 42 is "the meaning of life" is the title of the episode considering the star is living
Good old Chib. All his Who and Torchwood episodes were so consistently dull he kinda became a meme among me and my friends long before he became a showrunner. Like I don't hate the guy or anything, but god, is he bad. And it's not just the Whoniverse eithwer, I was checking out the Life on Mars writting staff because I really liked that show and finding out that he wrote my two less favourite episodes was comedy gold.
I couldn't agree more with that, dude.
@@nubekinton Thank you man have a reply too
You want a real laugh? Watch Broadchurch without the benefit of public hype. It’s literally Twin Peaks without the supernatural elements, which is Chibnall in a nutshell, taking something interesting and sucking out its soul until it’s safely marketable. That show really isn’t as good as everyone remembers, but Chibnall wrote it at just the right time - with nothing else on TV, it looked much grander than it was.
Let me ask you a question: What is key for you to watch Doctor Who? - I ask because you mentioned that you have had enjoyed this episode beforehand ... I have the same issues with Chibnall: I liked his episodes, well at least enough, until he took over.
I see very clearly now, how flawed his writing really is ... but nevertheless I definitely enjoyed, and was entertained, by 42. And isn't that the most important aspect of it all?!
Good points. I've been entertained by quite a few stories in S11/12, even if the writing hasn't been stellar - I don't mind as long as I've enjoyed myself. I'd like to have great writing _and_ entertainment, of course, but I've learned to adjust my expectations. I've often said we were spoilt by having such amazingly gifted writers and producers in RTD and Steven Moffat, and they were always going to be near-impossible acts to follow.
@@ftumschk good point. We should lower expectations til we get Gaiman to take over?! Just a thought.
He just explained that this episode shows other flaws of Chibnell's writing. It's not that it's bad. It's average, and a writer like Chibnell could lern from his minor mistakes from this one. Instead he amplified them in other episodes. This means that having the bigger picture (his original series) makes watching this episode worse then it really is.
It was a kinda decent episode in my opinion, when I first watched it I didn't necessarily hate it; if I were to watch it again after watching seasons 11/12 though, I would definitely like it a loss less because Chibnall has a format and never deviates from it. I like previous season of Dr. Who because even though they are very similar, it's not a copy pasted format with a few tweaks and changes here and there. Honestly, some of Chibnall's episodes could be good if they were mixed in with episodes that didn't follow that basic format.
So fun to see Chibnal criticism about "running around corridors with silly monster's" then every episode that he made years later, is all about that :)
Yeah S11 E5 is just running around corridors with a silly monster
As I've been saying for years, Chibnall's mediocrity is something we should have seen coming from miles away. His episodes of the show have always been boring at best.
Nobody I know had high hopes for his writing, but he was supposed to be a safe pair of hands who'd keep things running, bring on better writers and get out of their way. Instead...
i still don't understand how the one person known for making the mediocre episodes of doctor who ended up being showrunner for three seasons
Also this episode feels like a repurposed Planet of Evil
But I’d rather watch Planet of Evil
Unless I'm mistaken, I can't see too many links apart from the "possessed person with glowing eyes", and we've seen those fairly standard tropes in a number of stories, including Journey's End and The Impossible Planet/Satan Pit.
Yes! Just without Lis Sladen and therefore automatically not as good.
@@ftumschk I mean that, and the ship getting drawn back to the planet/sun and needing to drop fuel to get away
@@blobfish5730 Also both were about people stealing resources, only for the resources (or rather something abstract from the same place) to start fighting back. I consider them very similar episodes because this strange sentence accurately describes both stories on a conceptual level, at least in terms of setup. I recall a couple of sites making this observation when the episode released in their reviews as well.
It annoys me more, because Chibnal wrote the Cyberwoman episode for Torchwood, which we can all agree is probably the most iconic episode from that series, so he obviously has some idea on how to construct a good story. But idk wtf happened with his Doctor Who.
thing is
Torchwood was new and different and doesn't have alot to draw from
aimed at adults specifically
doctor who is not and imagine what he would of done to Sarah Jane
I feel like Cyberwoman is the most 'spin-off'-y episode of Torchwood though, like its really a Doctor Who episode in disguise. The stuff with Suzie, Owen and the Reserrection Gauntlets feels much more Torchwood for me because it's completely unconnected.
Cyberwoman is widely considered the worst episode of Torchwood though... it’s the one people shit on the most and I just checked, it has the lowest IMDb rating of any episode of Torchwood.
Chibnall was the showrunner on Torchwood, and he actually did write some of the best episodes of the show so your point isn’t exactly wrong it’s just... you used the worst possible example to show it lol
Sorry, did you really use Cyberwoman as an example of a good Chibnall episode. Thats just more evidence that Chibnall needs to stay as far away from the cybermen as possible. May I direct you to Fragments.
@@cameroncaws8506 the only real benefit from cyberwoman is the fact that it links Torchwood more to doctor who and gives us a little bit of aftermath from the battle between daleks and Cybermen
the problems steam from bad costume design making it draw more to sex appeal and making it feel less like matal and more like rubber, the typical chibnall halfas writing and the punching of a pterodon is just rediculous, there are other problems obviously, I haven't watched it in years
it's like class, if moffat had left blink as a stand alone episode imagine people's reaction to the finale of class
I always thought it was reassuring to know that in the future all grimy gritty industrial space worksites will all be run by really fit good looking people.
It's a okay episode nothing special but just a fun one off adventure which is fair as we get major plot point stories in the next few episode.
I actually quite like this episode. the way the possessed-star-people get disintegrated is reminiscent of what happened in japan when the nuclear bombs were dropped which to me is absolutely Terrifying. I will agree that the crew don't have the greatest dynamic but I actually think it works? that might be because I don't understand how people interact at all lmao. and to be honest I don't feel like the 'classical music' question is repeating the joke from the end of the world because that joke in itself is a repeat of the joke from episode one of the chase '[the beatles] are marvellous, but I didn't know they played classical music?', which fits more to the question in this episode because they both feature the beatles. and lastly I think that the living star idea is REALLY cool
Chris Chibnall: Master of the premature climax.
"Another rushed ending" - Mrs. Chibnall
I don't really see 42 as 'formulaic'. It's an exciting, fun and creepy episode with a unique premise in the real time notion. I don't remember seeing many other episodes that actually take place in 42 minutes...
A problem with story arcs in what is essentially an episodic show is that references have to be crowbarred into stories that are nothing to do with the arc. It leads to clumsy and confusing plots. Casual viewers, who are essential to ratings success, then get out off watching. Ratings fall, and everyone runs around trying to make the show more "relevant" and "appealing to a broader demographic", rather than just *better*.
Oh this is gonna be an interesting one...
My favourite part of the episode was the Doctor's Here Comes The Sun "Joke".
17:15 love the visual, but Russell never editied for Chris. Ever. One of the...five writers who he had faith in.
Foolish, foolish man. A good bit of RTD is all you need to remedy this episode.
Chibnall will go down in history as the man who killed Doctor Who.
Don't worry they must find a way to retcon their entire era
@@SomeUsernameSomeoneElseTookIt I mean, if Chibnall can retcon the entire damn show, someone can retcon Chibnall.
Let me ask; did we hate this episode at the time, or do we hate it NOW because it's THAT guy?
i think it's the latter
I found it really boring the first time watching it, fell asleep half way through
10:26 She called her mom aout the questions from the Pop quiz, so then the mother contacted saxon and they came
I admit, I can't think of many one-off side characters in Dr. Who that I actually cared about, that were not historical figures. The only ones that come to mind are the folks from Blink, and the folks from The Empty Child two-parter.
I swear you could show this to someone who's never watched Doctor Who, tell them it's an Among Us short film and they'd probably believe it
Personally, 42 isn't even in my ten least favourite RTD-era stories, which are, in episode order:
The Long Game, The Christmas Invasion, New Earth, Tooth & Claw, The Idiot's Lantern, Fear Her, The Lazarus Experiment, The Doctor's Daughter, The Next Doctor, Planet of the Dead.
Whilst it isn't a classic, and I'm by no means a Chibnall fan, I get more out of 42 than those. Off the top of my head, I can think of ten Moffat-era stories I enjoyed less than 42, and five Chibnall-era ones - but, since 42 belongs to the RTD era, I'll stick to that.
Billy from 5 Who Fans: The one pro of this episode is that it checks your watch for you.
Also I'm legitimatly questioning if there was actually a member of the film crew labelled as the "Grease guy."
Honestly, I like this episode, but for me it's the only good episode he has to his name.
Thank god for that. I thought I was the only one :)
@@intergalactic92 It ain't perfect but i still like it.
I quite like the Silurian two-parter as well, albeit it's largely a rehash of "The Silurians".
@@ftumschk I forgot he wrote that 😂 you’re right though, it is a rehash of the Pertwee story.
Also the BBC has changed a lot since this episode and today.
DW has never been shy to deal with challenging subject matter in the past but it used to do this in a more humanist way but today it's about being woke which loses the real message a good story has over being preachy.
It's perfectly possible to address "social" issues in a subtle manner if you have good writers. The issues with the current era is due to weak scripting and clumsy plotting, not "wokeness" per se.
What if a big ball of burning gas was alive: the episode...............wait......did Chibnall base a story around a summary of his own life?
Chibnall is so unoriginal that I imagine he was inspired (as was stated) by the real time series 24 and just switched the numbers for the title. It was only happenstance that someone noticed the title matched the episode running time and mistakenly assumed that was the title's inspiration.
Chibnall just doesnt seem to be able to write people. Your characters should drive the plot and should be the most interesting part of a story (or at least AN interesting part of the story) - Chibnall has'nt shown any ability to write any character arcs, relationships, growth, anything at all.
I would suggest you perhaps watch Broadchurch
@@presentfuture7563 He had the same problem with Broadchurch. All the characters were just props that came in and out of frame as required. Broadchurch really isn’t as good as we remember.
@@lewiskazinsky7334 Really not my experience at all, especially compared to American crime dramas (other than HBO). You did accurately describe Deadwater Fell, however
The fact that Chibnal is a long-time fan of Doctor Who speaks volumes that fans of Doctor Who shouldn't really criticise the direction of what the Doctor Who series going in since it was one of them that is leading the Doctor Who series to that direction. That's why I despise folks that hate TLoU 2, because they believe that storyline wasn't their cup of tea. But let those same folks write story for the third one since they think they know so much, and that third game of series would be end up like *The Timeless Children*
You despise people who hate Last of us 2? Like every single one? Wow
The only thing chinballs will be remembered for when it comes to doctor who is how much damage he done to the show and its fan base
Tbh rushed endings was a running theme in Moffat’s era...
This is one of my favourite episodes. I dunno why everyone hates it?!
Bruh Among Us is literally based on this episode
I don’t care, I love this episode. The side characters are all really thin, but the character work done with the Doctor and Martha is GREAT, and I love the sense of nonstop tension.
Someone else gave him that template. As of right now the doctor and all her companions are exactly that. Side characters. Look at tsuranga, literally everyone did 10% of the job
Guarantee RTD wrote the character and story arc elements of the episode.
Harbo always has the smoothest transitions into the video sponsers 🤣🤣
I think had this episode aired during the Whittaker era I think I would have dismissed it for the most part, apart from the villain which I found menacing in certain ways. I don't think Jodie would have managed to pull off the desperation of the Doctor being possessed by the sun creature and the fact that he admitted he was scared and helpless (something which rarely happens) and eventually had to give in to its power - something which has always stayed with me about this episode. Also, Murray Gold's captivating score and the fast-paced editing which became quite synonymous with the RTD era really save this episode and still make it watchable for me. In part, it really gives it that epic, thrilling edge which had Segun Akinola done the score instead, I don't think it would have achieved anywhere near as well.
8:00 end of the Skillshare ad
Poor build up, over-reliance on tried and tested formulae, sudden and disappointing climax... Pity his wife.
man i love this episodeeeee.
Love the idea of a sun rioting against people who used it as fuel
Love the enemy
Love the idea of sections u have to get through
Thought something would happen to Martha
and love the ambience
I always liked 42, but I’m pretty sure it was just because it terrified me as a kid
42 was just a rip off of Planet of Evil from Tom Baker's era.
To make the trace more realistic, Martha should’ve called her once for a quiz question, then the lady have her mom call her back during the goodbye instead of the other way around. That would’ve fixed the oversight.
Why wouldn’t they do a stakeout waiting for Martha to call? If they have her mom call and ask a bunch of questions it might tip their hand. Remember who’s in charge. Also, have we ever seen someone receive a call from their family while time-traveling in Doctor Who? Think about when Rose was missing for a year, she had to have tried calling. It would make sense then that it only works one-way.
42 was a good episode. I had high hopes about his run because of 42. Those high hopes were dashed.