Just because Owen is an awful human being, doesn’t mean he isn’t a fascinating character to have around. I agree with your confusion that Jack would just forgive him after the events of End of Days, but honestly, I’m glad he was part of the team to provide some great moments of character drama.
Agree completely. Even though he could be completely awful at times, Owen had some of the best development of the series and added a lot to the show. Also, just, man Burn Gorman can act, he made the character really interesting to watch.
I actually sort of (respectfully) disagree on the just forgiving Owen. Not because of who Jack is, but because of who Jack was. He’s been alive so long that he’s been Owen, and has made these similar bad decisions. He can accept the darkness or stupidity of humanity in a way the Doctor never really could.
I think this guy confuses bad people with bad characters. You’re not supposed to see Owen as a good person. He’s still one of the most compelling characters to watch, and the performance is pretty charismatic.
It's kind of interesting to see how Torchwood is even less limited thematically when taken off TV. When the audio company Big Finish picked up Doctor Who, they were able to explore brutal imagery and decidedly adult themes. When the same company picked up Torchwood around 2015, it became straight-up experimental horror that can keep adults up at night, with episodes focusing on emotional oppression and the selling of sexual brutality.
binge watching torchwood bc ur a a tween dr who fan who wants to convince urself that ur favourite show is cool and grown up actually was such a formative experience for some people i think
Yeah, I mean all Jack needed was hi phone. "Martha Jones (etc) listen you couldn't just phone the Doctor for us real quick? This Children thing is a massive and growing Problem" Martha phones the Doctor, problem solved...
Yeah, I agree with your assessment of Miracle Day. The concept of what if no one could die is honestly interesting, but would have worked better for an independent mini series.
My main issue with it is that it was just too long. Once I actually got around to watching through it all I can say it was an amazing story and season overall, but it just feels like it was dragged out way longer than it should've been. By cutting out unnecessary scenes, they probably could have made it 8 episodes instead of 10 and made it way better.
Children of earth did a really good job, explaining why the doctor didn’t show up. I had a really hard time suspending my disbelief enough to buy him not showing up for miracle day.
Miracle day still holds a special place in my heart. While it felt a little different from the first 3 seasons it still is super entertaining in my opinion.
I think it’s a little ridiculous to call Gwen’s S1 arc “Daenerys levels of shark-jumping.” It makes perfect sense to me that Gwen would become more and more unstable as her entire understanding of her world is ripped further and further apart. It makes sense to me that she would cheat on her boyfriend simply to feel intimacy with one of the only people in the world with whom she can share all the horrible things she’s been through, and that she would become selfish and arrogant, attempting to control Rhys’ knowledge of the affair and his forgiveness, since she has entered a job that gives her an uncanny level of power over ‘lesser’ humans who are unaware of the full complexity of the universe - this theme is planted as early as episode 1. It even makes sense to me that she would still, despite all this, love Rhys deeply and want to do anything to bring him back, because this entire show is about morally grey people who can feel and do contradictory things - as people in life do. I think it’s kind of childish to expect that media reflect people being purely good and rational and consistent. Just because a character is a bad person doesn’t mean they’ve been written badly or that their characterisation is illogical or inconsistent.
I’d be really interested in a video about the Serah Jane adventures. Wile it is more of a kids show, I have found memories of the show and would be interested on your thoughts on it
For me the Series 2 finale was mixed bag and Gray was the weakest part. Gray comes out of nowhere with a shaky motivation I was not 100 percent sold. For me Exit Wounds could have been improved by Adam coming back; surviving the team wiping their memories of him and he comes back for revenge screwing with Gray and Captain John Hart's memories to destroy Torchwood. That I can get behind more than a flimsy dead brother coming back to get revenge story.
Btw for all of you who were eager for a continuation of Torchwood's narrative, Big Finish canonically continued it complete with John Barrowman, Eve Myles and Kai Owen returning in their roles. Aliens Among Us is season 5, and Gods Among Us is season 6. Just note that they are audio dramas though.
Owen and Tosh got better development in season 2, ended up being great or interesting characters. Ianto was barely there in season 1, so his betrayal wasn’t that important to me. Gwen didn’t deserve Rhys after cheating on him, and Jack was sort of emo in season 1, so it was good to see him lighten up
The team kill Jack (not realising he'll come back), he deals with the threat, leaves, and then they get mad at him for just leaving. Like I know he forgave them and he left because of the Doctor, but why are they so offended when they literally just tried to kill him? No wonder he'd leave
Gwen sleeping with Owen is a way for her to connect with someone that actually understands the trauma of watching an entire village of people eating random people of the rode, that’s the point of her character, yes she loves Reese but she has to hide from him that’s what destroys there relationship, how can’t you see that
33:40 Well, looking solely at the ratings... Season 4 at it's lowest, Episode 7 with 4.48 million, was still rated higher than Season 1 and 2 at their highest, Season 2 Episode 7, with 4.32 million...
Plus I’m pretty sure it isn’t even cannon anymore as it would make more sense when Jack returns it Doctor who season 12 and the new year special if season 3 was the end at Jack just left into space (it would explain why Gwen is the only person referenced and why he’s in space in the first place). I haven’t listen to season 5 however so maybe that explains it I don’t know.
@@crooked_mermaid The Big Finish seasons are fantastic. Aliens Among Us and God Among Us mix the strongest aspects of the episodic and serialized formats to a perfectly balanced middle ground. If Torchwood ever returns to television they should put the Big Finish Torchwood writing team in charge.
The reason why miracle day did not crash with season 6 of doctor who is because it happens at the same time on deamons run. It is also the reason that Jack was not their to fight along side the Doctor, Rory and the others.
i mean you're not wrong about the characters being unlikable, especially owen, but i also think that's kind of the point. the doctor is a generally optimistic character who even in a lot of their darker moments is still trying to do the right thing and surrounds themself with a bunch of optimistic characters who try to keep them in check. jack was already morally questionable at his introduction in empty child/doctor dances and has become far more jaded and hardened through his 150 ish years of trying to protect the earth from alien threats with rudimentary technology and after the rest of his team died in his backstory he basically turned torchwood into this home for fucked up people who had some kind of skill to contribute to the team. they do only really get all the horrible monsters and stuff unlike in doctor who where at least off screen those characters do get to relax and see nice things (it's all backstory for the stories we see filmed because an episode where they just go sightseeing would be pretty short and kind of boring). it's a bunch of already mentally fucked up people who get more disconnected from the world because of the nature of their jobs. gwen isn't driven to cheat on rhys and drug him because it's an alien thing, she's driven to it because she's kind of fucked in the head like everyone else on the team and is dealing with feeling disconnected from her boyfriend because she knows about all this alien shit and she can't share it with anyone else. it's about how isolating this job is for these people. and honestly i don't really understand your problem with clara either. 7b clara didn't get nearly enough characterization but in season 8 and 9 she gets proper development and an arc. yeah, she's a horrible control freak bitch but sometimes characters are going to be unlikable. what matters is whether they are well developed or not. torchwood's main cast generally is reasonably well developed. it's a very different problem to thirteen and her companions who have no discernable character traits.
I personally can't watch it because every single time something happens I go: "Call the Doctor" plus whole shtick of TARDIS bringing Doctor where he needs to be turns into BS cause alien invasions happen and Doctor is nowhere in sight.
I do not think you understand this show at all. I don’t think you understand the difference between a bad character and a bad person. I don’t think you understand any of the characters or what they have been through. For example, Ianto tried to commit su1c1de.
I remember seeing Miracle day when I was a kid. I'm pretty sure seeing a woman getting burned alive in a crematory oven resulted in me gaining some minor childhood trauma.
14:14 ‘gwen cheats on her loving boyfriend rhys’ - LOUD INCORRECT BUZZER Rhys is actually such a controlling arsehole of a partner - the framing of their relationship as a happy one was something I hated throughout the show because he's SUCH a knob!!!!
I remember the first time I heard of this show. I'm an American and I was drawn in the constant advertisements. Even people who never heard of Dr. Who or Torchewood were intrested in it.
40:27 the cracks in time say they stole memories away from earth that’s why Amy doesn’t know the darleks and why no one in London remembers the cyber king
14:49 Living in a world where you come face to face with how meanjngless everything is kinda makes a lerson a little bit impulsive.. lil bit compulsive....whole lotta crazy...
I like Miracle Day. The problem for me is that it felt like a completely different show. It felt like a Torchwood spin off set in America starring Mekai Phifer with John Barrowman and Eve Myles as guest stars. The original premise of the show was abandoned and it felt like Jack wasn't the main character at times.
Haven't seen it on HBOmax. But I never knew it was a Doctor Who spin-off. I haven't seen Doctor Who since 2015 and it's just more absurd than I remember. It has the most craziest explanation for stuff. Like a living plastic creature, Lady Cassandra, killer mannequins, and more.
I only ever rewatch Children of Earth. and that's still got the why doesn't Jack, Sarah Jane, Mickey, Martha or most especially the Brigadier, simply contact the Doctor. The Brig may not have the mobile number, but he probably still has that space time text machine mentioned in Terror of the Zygons. I'm just no fan of Davies. He's the UK's answer to JJ Abrams. it can be fun if you just DON'T think about any of it.
Torchwood Miracle Day, is my favourite series to ever hit television, i know people hate it. But i love the whole feeling, cinematography and soundtrack of the whole season. I love it, i have watched it so many times in my life time. But i would admit that its kinda wierd that the doctor didnt show up, and the worst thing about the season is oswald danes, not a bad character but i still cant see why he is so popular after he raped and killed a 4 year girl. But apart from that i love miracle day, a show that is gory, in the doctor who universe but is made by micheal bay while all working together! Fantastic!
Apparently it's been explained that the whole miracle day thing happened at the same time as demons run in season 6 so that explains why the doctor couldn't help. Of course, with the tardis he still could but the "laws" of time travel in the who universe are about as consistent as the doctors faces. Also, I feel like Danes actor really didn't help the way they were trying to portray him. He just seemed like he didn't play it right. I can't pinpoint one exact thing I don't like about his performance, it just didn't work for me. To counter your point about not understanding how he could get so popular, literally just look at the world today. That shit happens all the time. Celebrities do the craziest, most throwed off shit and yet stay rich and popular. Also, I think his popularity was exaggerated a little on purpose to demonstrate how the world was kinda fucked at the time. So beyond repair that the public was worshipping a paedophile/rapist/murderer.
@@awhryan Makes sense, but what if the whole thing with the Doctor in demons run was just an after thought when people started asking the question. Also i still disagree with the whole Oswold Danes thing, yeah cardi B owns 10 cars but cant drive but she didnt rape and kill a minor??
I liked Miracle Day. I didn't love it like Children of Earth, everyone I know agrees that is up there with one of the best written bits of TV out of the BBC, but I did like it. But you were right about the limitations thing. A very underrated episode of the main show is midnight. They had a tight, tight, tight budget and so had to film the majority on one set, and Catherine Tate was not to feature fully. And yet the character side of the story and idea that the human race becomes insanely selfish when their life is on the line is thrilling. The episode was so good, and as you say, it was because of the limitations for it. As for Torchwood, sure I'm watching this many years later when RTD returned to the series, but Davies has said IF Torchwood can be brought back naturally (i.e. he addresses some of the cringey and bad parts of the original run of it and wants to avoid it again), then he will do. But I reckon at most, we may get a better written Captain Jack back by the new 3rd season at best. Jack returning during Jodie's run was written terribly, and that's because Chibnall was find desperate attempts to tug at the nostalgia in us fans towards the end of his run - see Power of the Doctor when he got basically every single Doctor back in the show
For me I only got into touchwood very recently, and ended up watching seasons 1-3 twice in two weeks the first times I watched it (whoops) and those seasons have ended up being one of my all time favourite shows I’ve ever seen, however I could not finish miracle day. I watched mabye three episodes of it and just never went back to. It loses every thing about touchwood that made me love it so much before and quite frankly the fact they killed of literally half of the characters made so uninvested in the story line like I want to watch torchwood not a show about a bunch of characters I’ve never met before. However I disagree with this video on some of the things said about the characters. Whilst I feel similarly to what was said about season one, I actually struggled to like Gwen and Jack as much as the others throughout the show, idk why but somehow I found myself more connected to the others even Owen over them but as many faults as the show has ultimately I don’t think I’ll ever stop loving it lmao
Okay I take your Torchwood and Sarah Jane Adventures and raise you...K9 and Company, the Airzone Solution and Big Finish 😉 I was also a big Doctor Who stan up until the first season with 12 ended. Nothing against him, I just couldn’t stand Moffat anymore
For me, Torchwood shrinks the universe, instead of expanding it. Who's idealism is it's heart and centre. I don't know what the UK equaviliant of this would be, (maybe Igglepiggle before driftng off in that boat finds a screaming decapitated head or something and rocks himself in that boat), but not everything needs to be interrogated. Just because you can do something, doesn't mean you should For me, it's just projecting your adult angst where it doesn't belong. It's something you play around with your own stuff informed by Who.
People were so quick to call for new Torchwood TV after the last Who special but I just don't get it. Where do they go from here. In one season they kill children and the next they literally kill death itself (not even the first time in the show's history!). And because of the narrative choices taken the show cannot go back to what it once was, at least chronologically. So do they do another run of monster-of-the-week stories from the time between the starts of S1 and S3, with the original cast some *15 years* removed from the original broadcast? Because that would be weaksauce after S3+4. Do they "soft reboot" it with a new cast, new set, same format, different time and place maybe? Again, weaksauce. Maybe people just want more Jack on their telly, can't exactly blame them. But definitely don't want to see him back in Who, he has absolutely outgrown the show and frankly the Jack we see in New Years Who is a pastiche, especially after becoming this heart breaking, child killing demigod. --- Sort of unrelated, but what stings is that if Miracle Day didn't have *that* towering cliff hanging ending it could have wrapped up quite cleanly, if anything. Now it's just another unfinished scifi show.
Big Finish has shown where a Torchwood revival can go with Aliens Among Us and God Among Us. Give the writers of the audio Series' 5 and 6 the reigns of Torchwood if it comes back to TV.
@@DalekCaanOfSkaro looking back at that comment that was an overstatement but personally I still think s4 is an improvement. I actually really liked s4 but I was just disappointed by the conclusion and pointless side characters. Whereas with s1 it has basically all of my least favourite episodes, an abysmal finale, Gwen cheating which I personally hated and... Abaddon. I did really like the team dynamic and when they fell apart however as previously stated I did not enjoy the episode after this so imo it didnt really hold up.
Personally, I think series 2 has a better overall story but I really enjoyed watching series 1, the individual episodes seem more solid, ignoring the series finale of course. Series 2 just seemed more boring to be, I can’t really place why.
Haha drone shots. You know they were filmed with helicopters back then right? Creating airborne establishing shots was expensive and took professionalism and expensive equipment
I haven't ever heard of people walking away from DW after Mat Smith and Moffatt. In fact thats when most ppl around became familiar with it. Then i wasnt a nerd anymore. Cuz DW became something for the normies....ooohhhhhh😮 is that why?
0:27 I dont know the writing of the episodes seemed to be aiming for that age demographic, like any one older than 17 probably couldn't take the show seriously, it was way to childish 5:01 I dont know Dr who handled most of its stuff better. A theme doesnt save it for me if its executed awfully or in too childish a manner, which it nearly always did. 17:29 Honestly, throughout every season of Torchwood Rhys is the best character consistently. Just bar none guy is a unit, he's honest brave and true. He's too bloody good for the show.
We need end but sadly doctor who never show all story jack immortal where doctor in time torchwood bbc need torchwood story with doctor. Then left cliff hanger black guy who same as jack shame we never see it but where doctor ?? In that time ? Owen is well sad in end How he die and then never heals But look is oki binge watch but u hate cliffhanger :c. Why dose peter Capaldi play so much roles as Greek, the Doctor Who and the torchwood guy evil
I found the adult themes contrived like it was trying to be as nihilistic violent dark sexually explicit as possible like they where thinking how dark can we nake this and they always go as far as they can esp with the outlook and ideas well have cannibals "it makes us happy" heaven doesnt exist ect ect it made me roll my eyes at a lot of it edgelord style but some of the dark themes where done The sexual stuff feels so adolescent and ott campy and silly
When the UK and Canada were making Torchwood, it was awesome. As a Canadian, just be happy you Brits don’t have to live next to them. It’s like living in a condo complex with a crack addict living in the apartment below and he’s always trying to burn the whole place down. And that’s how I feel about Miracle Day. Like a crack addict got ahold of my favourite show and ruined it like they do everything. Even their most notable sitcom, All in the Family, is a rip off of a much better show called Till Death Do Us Part. Now we’ll never get another Torchwood series, largely because the Americans came along and screwed it up. Typical.
Don't agree with you about Suzie, thought she came across as a poorly written spoiled brat. But agree with most of the rest of it. Thought it was overrated and trying too hard to be dark Dr Who.
I always found torchwood series 1 and 2 to be massively overrated, it’s so cheap and knock off, nobody can really act apart from Eve Myles of course, it’s over the top, over dramatic, very cringe at times, Burn Gorman is also overrated as an actor, the guy is just flat out cringe at most points whenever he’s meant to be doing anything dramatic. The only saving graces are Tosh and Gwen and Ianto. There’s no real good episodes at all because it’s all chibnall. There’s about 3 I’d ever rewatch again. It only became sensational in series 3 and 4. It was a proper, gritty, scarily real, political, dark show for series 3 and 4, it was just a shame you needed 1 and 2 for all the context.
@@Ianto_Jones meh not for series 1 and 2. Jacks really over dramatic and theatrical, Owens really amateur, even Ianto sometimes isn’t the best. Must be the scripts In series 3 and 4 when it stopped being ridiculous the acting got phenomenal
@@obiwankenobi687 I completely disagree with you. Jack is meant to be a bit over the top. That’s his character. Idk what you are talking about with owen
Good old scooby doo clone with sex and violence. They even had a mystery machine. Unfortunately it was rather poorly written, with some terrible eps. Very much a 12 year olds idea of maturity.
"The Curse of Peladon" in my opinion it is the most beautiful piece of television. Every "Torchwood" episode in my opinion it is the most ugliest piece of television.
![BLACK BAG - Official Trailer [HD] - Only in Theaters March 14](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Du0Xp8WX_7I/mqdefault.jpg)
Just because Owen is an awful human being, doesn’t mean he isn’t a fascinating character to have around. I agree with your confusion that Jack would just forgive him after the events of End of Days, but honestly, I’m glad he was part of the team to provide some great moments of character drama.
Agree completely. Even though he could be completely awful at times, Owen had some of the best development of the series and added a lot to the show. Also, just, man Burn Gorman can act, he made the character really interesting to watch.
I actually sort of (respectfully) disagree on the just forgiving Owen. Not because of who Jack is, but because of who Jack was. He’s been alive so long that he’s been Owen, and has made these similar bad decisions. He can accept the darkness or stupidity of humanity in a way the Doctor never really could.
I think this guy confuses bad people with bad characters. You’re not supposed to see Owen as a good person. He’s still one of the most compelling characters to watch, and the performance is pretty charismatic.
@@entertain7us148exactly
I always thought Torchwood was underrated. Sure it was immature and a little flat at times, but I think there was some genuinely great stuff in it.
Agreed
Agreed. Even with its flaws, it’s still up there with Firefly as one of my favorite shows.
Came for the connected universe. Stayed for a portion of the Agents interpersonal relationships. I also maintain that Yanto was always a gay.
The fact that you think it was immature is the problem, as it was supposed to be doctor who's mature big brother
It's kind of interesting to see how Torchwood is even less limited thematically when taken off TV. When the audio company Big Finish picked up Doctor Who, they were able to explore brutal imagery and decidedly adult themes. When the same company picked up Torchwood around 2015, it became straight-up experimental horror that can keep adults up at night, with episodes focusing on emotional oppression and the selling of sexual brutality.
Oh-hoooo yes. I honestly think some of the audio dramas make the TV canon look tame.
binge watching torchwood bc ur a a tween dr who fan who wants to convince urself that ur favourite show is cool and grown up actually was such a formative experience for some people i think
LOL if Torchwood has taught us anything it’s that any chance for Captain Jack to sacrifice a child… any chance, he’ll go for it 😂🤣😅
Torchwood is such a guilty pleasure, it has a unique "spice" to it, I can't explain it.
jack killing his grandson still makes me so conflicted and upset :"/
Yeah, I mean all Jack needed was hi phone. "Martha Jones (etc) listen you couldn't just phone the Doctor for us real quick? This Children thing is a massive and growing Problem" Martha phones the Doctor, problem solved...
Yeah, I agree with your assessment of Miracle Day. The concept of what if no one could die is honestly interesting, but would have worked better for an independent mini series.
My main issue with it is that it was just too long. Once I actually got around to watching through it all I can say it was an amazing story and season overall, but it just feels like it was dragged out way longer than it should've been. By cutting out unnecessary scenes, they probably could have made it 8 episodes instead of 10 and made it way better.
Children of earth did a really good job, explaining why the doctor didn’t show up. I had a really hard time suspending my disbelief enough to buy him not showing up for miracle day.
Hell, he got shot at lake Silencio DURING miracle day. Kind of strange that no one bothered to mention the whole "everyone is immortal now" thing...
@@sheridan5175 omg I can’t believe I didn’t know that. What a massive pothole. Has it ever been addressed in interviews?
@sheridan5175 maybe because hes a time lord it didnt affect him? or because time travel stuff?
@@tammywillmott7592 It probably affected amy and rory, and they were living on earth at the time.
Miracle day still holds a special place in my heart. While it felt a little different from the first 3 seasons it still is super entertaining in my opinion.
I think it’s a little ridiculous to call Gwen’s S1 arc “Daenerys levels of shark-jumping.” It makes perfect sense to me that Gwen would become more and more unstable as her entire understanding of her world is ripped further and further apart. It makes sense to me that she would cheat on her boyfriend simply to feel intimacy with one of the only people in the world with whom she can share all the horrible things she’s been through, and that she would become selfish and arrogant, attempting to control Rhys’ knowledge of the affair and his forgiveness, since she has entered a job that gives her an uncanny level of power over ‘lesser’ humans who are unaware of the full complexity of the universe - this theme is planted as early as episode 1. It even makes sense to me that she would still, despite all this, love Rhys deeply and want to do anything to bring him back, because this entire show is about morally grey people who can feel and do contradictory things - as people in life do.
I think it’s kind of childish to expect that media reflect people being purely good and rational and consistent. Just because a character is a bad person doesn’t mean they’ve been written badly or that their characterisation is illogical or inconsistent.
Perfectly explained
ianto saying "youre a monster" was really 'right answer wrong formula' of him huh
I'm one of the very few that like season 1, great review my guy
I’d be really interested in a video about the Serah Jane adventures. Wile it is more of a kids show, I have found memories of the show and would be interested on your thoughts on it
I havent seen it since childhood but I remember some really good stories like all the trickster stuff
Good to see people still talking about torchwood
For me the Series 2 finale was mixed bag and Gray was the weakest part. Gray comes out of nowhere with a shaky motivation I was not 100 percent sold. For me Exit Wounds could have been improved by Adam coming back; surviving the team wiping their memories of him and he comes back for revenge screwing with Gray and Captain John Hart's memories to destroy Torchwood. That I can get behind more than a flimsy dead brother coming back to get revenge story.
you explain the show perfectly, flaws and all. as much as this show is certainly a product of its time and far from perfect, ill always love it
Btw for all of you who were eager for a continuation of Torchwood's narrative, Big Finish canonically continued it complete with John Barrowman, Eve Myles and Kai Owen returning in their roles. Aliens Among Us is season 5, and Gods Among Us is season 6. Just note that they are audio dramas though.
Who's kai Owen?
@@funfairs__ukthe guy that plays Rhys
Really enjoyed the review!
The first episode of Miracle Day was enough for me to see what US TV had done to Torchwood. 😪
Owen and Tosh got better development in season 2, ended up being great or interesting characters. Ianto was barely there in season 1, so his betrayal wasn’t that important to me. Gwen didn’t deserve Rhys after cheating on him, and Jack was sort of emo in season 1, so it was good to see him lighten up
I was with you UNTIL the Tosh and Owen slander started....
And the Clara slander...
Fr
The team kill Jack (not realising he'll come back), he deals with the threat, leaves, and then they get mad at him for just leaving. Like I know he forgave them and he left because of the Doctor, but why are they so offended when they literally just tried to kill him? No wonder he'd leave
this is such a good review man, I watched the entire thing,, its a CRIME how few views is has
Omg moe u like torchwood???
Gwen sleeping with Owen is a way for her to connect with someone that actually understands the trauma of watching an entire village of people eating random people of the rode, that’s the point of her character, yes she loves Reese but she has to hide from him that’s what destroys there relationship, how can’t you see that
33:40 Well, looking solely at the ratings... Season 4 at it's lowest, Episode 7 with 4.48 million, was still rated higher than Season 1 and 2 at their highest, Season 2 Episode 7, with 4.32 million...
Just because people watched it doesn’t mean it was good.
Plus I’m pretty sure it isn’t even cannon anymore as it would make more sense when Jack returns it Doctor who season 12 and the new year special if season 3 was the end at Jack just left into space (it would explain why Gwen is the only person referenced and why he’s in space in the first place). I haven’t listen to season 5 however so maybe that explains it I don’t know.
@@crooked_mermaid The Big Finish seasons are fantastic. Aliens Among Us and God Among Us mix the strongest aspects of the episodic and serialized formats to a perfectly balanced middle ground. If Torchwood ever returns to television they should put the Big Finish Torchwood writing team in charge.
@@crooked_mermaidit’s definitely canon
@@crooked_mermaidmiracle day was very good
The reason why miracle day did not crash with season 6 of doctor who is because it happens at the same time on deamons run. It is also the reason that Jack was not their to fight along side the Doctor, Rory and the others.
I still get goosebumps at that line though. Demons run...
i mean you're not wrong about the characters being unlikable, especially owen, but i also think that's kind of the point. the doctor is a generally optimistic character who even in a lot of their darker moments is still trying to do the right thing and surrounds themself with a bunch of optimistic characters who try to keep them in check. jack was already morally questionable at his introduction in empty child/doctor dances and has become far more jaded and hardened through his 150 ish years of trying to protect the earth from alien threats with rudimentary technology and after the rest of his team died in his backstory he basically turned torchwood into this home for fucked up people who had some kind of skill to contribute to the team. they do only really get all the horrible monsters and stuff unlike in doctor who where at least off screen those characters do get to relax and see nice things (it's all backstory for the stories we see filmed because an episode where they just go sightseeing would be pretty short and kind of boring). it's a bunch of already mentally fucked up people who get more disconnected from the world because of the nature of their jobs. gwen isn't driven to cheat on rhys and drug him because it's an alien thing, she's driven to it because she's kind of fucked in the head like everyone else on the team and is dealing with feeling disconnected from her boyfriend because she knows about all this alien shit and she can't share it with anyone else. it's about how isolating this job is for these people.
and honestly i don't really understand your problem with clara either. 7b clara didn't get nearly enough characterization but in season 8 and 9 she gets proper development and an arc. yeah, she's a horrible control freak bitch but sometimes characters are going to be unlikable. what matters is whether they are well developed or not. torchwood's main cast generally is reasonably well developed. it's a very different problem to thirteen and her companions who have no discernable character traits.
I personally can't watch it because every single time something happens I go: "Call the Doctor" plus whole shtick of TARDIS bringing Doctor where he needs to be turns into BS cause alien invasions happen and Doctor is nowhere in sight.
The only question worth asking is did the creators get to make the show they wanted?
I do not think you understand this show at all. I don’t think you understand the difference between a bad character and a bad person. I don’t think you understand any of the characters or what they have been through. For example, Ianto tried to commit su1c1de.
I remember seeing Miracle day when I was a kid. I'm pretty sure seeing a woman getting burned alive in a crematory oven resulted in me gaining some minor childhood trauma.
Great review loved the show for a time !
14:14 ‘gwen cheats on her loving boyfriend rhys’ - LOUD INCORRECT BUZZER
Rhys is actually such a controlling arsehole of a partner - the framing of their relationship as a happy one was something I hated throughout the show because he's SUCH a knob!!!!
This really is a fantastic and fair review. Thank you
i loved all of this show in entirety and i understand the criticisms but this show was perfect to me and i’m so sad it was cancelled
I remember the first time I heard of this show. I'm an American and I was drawn in the constant advertisements. Even people who never heard of Dr. Who or Torchewood were intrested in it.
That Dalek flash game was my childhood, it was actually pretty good for a flash game at the time. I still think it holds up quite well.
Interesting stuff.
40:27 the cracks in time say they stole memories away from earth that’s why Amy doesn’t know the darleks and why no one in London remembers the cyber king
Toshiba is my favourite, it's a shame she never got a brake
Break
Toshiko, Toshiba is a tech company
0:14 yeah I’m 13 and probably shouldn’t have binged it either but hey it was a good show and I had already finished Doctor who
14:49
Living in a world where you come face to face with how meanjngless everything is kinda makes a lerson a little bit impulsive.. lil bit compulsive....whole lotta crazy...
Wow would love if you did a video like this for Sarah Jane Adventures!!
I never had the urge to rewatch Miracle Day. The americanisation is the one thing I can't accept. I'm saying this fully aware of the sex gas episode.
I feel I’m in a rather large minority of people who genuinely like miracle day….
I like Miracle Day. The problem for me is that it felt like a completely different show. It felt like a Torchwood spin off set in America starring Mekai Phifer with John Barrowman and Eve Myles as guest stars. The original premise of the show was abandoned and it felt like Jack wasn't the main character at times.
Killing off the original team killed the show
Haven't seen it on HBOmax. But I never knew it was a Doctor Who spin-off. I haven't seen Doctor Who since 2015 and it's just more absurd than I remember. It has the most craziest explanation for stuff. Like a living plastic creature, Lady Cassandra, killer mannequins, and more.
The show is just as underrated as this channel
clearly you do not understand anything about cyberwoman or iantos overall character
Frrr
I only ever rewatch Children of Earth. and that's still got the why doesn't Jack, Sarah Jane, Mickey, Martha or most especially the Brigadier, simply contact the Doctor. The Brig may not have the mobile number, but he probably still has that space time text machine mentioned in Terror of the Zygons.
I'm just no fan of Davies. He's the UK's answer to JJ Abrams. it can be fun if you just DON'T think about any of it.
This is l love this series p. It is like a cross between MIB and X-files in the Doctor WHO universe.
What is wrong with the moffat area?
Torchwood Miracle Day, is my favourite series to ever hit television, i know people hate it. But i love the whole feeling, cinematography and soundtrack of the whole season. I love it, i have watched it so many times in my life time. But i would admit that its kinda wierd that the doctor didnt show up, and the worst thing about the season is oswald danes, not a bad character but i still cant see why he is so popular after he raped and killed a 4 year girl. But apart from that i love miracle day, a show that is gory, in the doctor who universe but is made by micheal bay while all working together! Fantastic!
Apparently it's been explained that the whole miracle day thing happened at the same time as demons run in season 6 so that explains why the doctor couldn't help. Of course, with the tardis he still could but the "laws" of time travel in the who universe are about as consistent as the doctors faces. Also, I feel like Danes actor really didn't help the way they were trying to portray him. He just seemed like he didn't play it right. I can't pinpoint one exact thing I don't like about his performance, it just didn't work for me. To counter your point about not understanding how he could get so popular, literally just look at the world today. That shit happens all the time. Celebrities do the craziest, most throwed off shit and yet stay rich and popular. Also, I think his popularity was exaggerated a little on purpose to demonstrate how the world was kinda fucked at the time. So beyond repair that the public was worshipping a paedophile/rapist/murderer.
@@awhryan Makes sense, but what if the whole thing with the Doctor in demons run was just an after thought when people started asking the question. Also i still disagree with the whole Oswold Danes thing, yeah cardi B owns 10 cars but cant drive but she didnt rape and kill a minor??
@@lachlan.mooney could be, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was thought of all along because Davies is like that sometimes
@@awhryan True that.
In my experience, a good show always has flaws, but a show with flaws isn't automatically good
I liked Miracle Day. I didn't love it like Children of Earth, everyone I know agrees that is up there with one of the best written bits of TV out of the BBC, but I did like it.
But you were right about the limitations thing. A very underrated episode of the main show is midnight. They had a tight, tight, tight budget and so had to film the majority on one set, and Catherine Tate was not to feature fully. And yet the character side of the story and idea that the human race becomes insanely selfish when their life is on the line is thrilling. The episode was so good, and as you say, it was because of the limitations for it.
As for Torchwood, sure I'm watching this many years later when RTD returned to the series, but Davies has said IF Torchwood can be brought back naturally (i.e. he addresses some of the cringey and bad parts of the original run of it and wants to avoid it again), then he will do. But I reckon at most, we may get a better written Captain Jack back by the new 3rd season at best. Jack returning during Jodie's run was written terribly, and that's because Chibnall was find desperate attempts to tug at the nostalgia in us fans towards the end of his run - see Power of the Doctor when he got basically every single Doctor back in the show
Hey ! Clara was nice !
If Miracle Day was several episodes it would've been perfect.
For me I only got into touchwood very recently, and ended up watching seasons 1-3 twice in two weeks the first times I watched it (whoops) and those seasons have ended up being one of my all time favourite shows I’ve ever seen, however I could not finish miracle day. I watched mabye three episodes of it and just never went back to. It loses every thing about touchwood that made me love it so much before and quite frankly the fact they killed of literally half of the characters made so uninvested in the story line like I want to watch torchwood not a show about a bunch of characters I’ve never met before. However I disagree with this video on some of the things said about the characters. Whilst I feel similarly to what was said about season one, I actually struggled to like Gwen and Jack as much as the others throughout the show, idk why but somehow I found myself more connected to the others even Owen over them but as many faults as the show has ultimately I don’t think I’ll ever stop loving it lmao
I totally agree. I loved the concept of Miracle day, but, did it really need to become Americanized? I say this as an American.
Touchwood was more like “Angel”. ‘Class”, which people have completely forgotten, was Buffy.
I’m one of the 10 people in the world that love miracle day
Okay I take your Torchwood and Sarah Jane Adventures and raise you...K9 and Company, the Airzone Solution and Big Finish 😉 I was also a big Doctor Who stan up until the first season with 12 ended. Nothing against him, I just couldn’t stand Moffat anymore
For me, Torchwood shrinks the universe, instead of expanding it. Who's idealism is it's heart and centre.
I don't know what the UK equaviliant of this would be, (maybe Igglepiggle before driftng off in that boat finds a screaming decapitated head or something and rocks himself in that boat), but not everything needs to be interrogated. Just because you can do something, doesn't mean you should For me, it's just projecting your adult angst where it doesn't belong.
It's something you play around with your own stuff informed by Who.
People were so quick to call for new Torchwood TV after the last Who special but I just don't get it. Where do they go from here. In one season they kill children and the next they literally kill death itself (not even the first time in the show's history!). And because of the narrative choices taken the show cannot go back to what it once was, at least chronologically. So do they do another run of monster-of-the-week stories from the time between the starts of S1 and S3, with the original cast some *15 years* removed from the original broadcast? Because that would be weaksauce after S3+4. Do they "soft reboot" it with a new cast, new set, same format, different time and place maybe? Again, weaksauce.
Maybe people just want more Jack on their telly, can't exactly blame them. But definitely don't want to see him back in Who, he has absolutely outgrown the show and frankly the Jack we see in New Years Who is a pastiche, especially after becoming this heart breaking, child killing demigod.
---
Sort of unrelated, but what stings is that if Miracle Day didn't have *that* towering cliff hanging ending it could have wrapped up quite cleanly, if anything. Now it's just another unfinished scifi show.
Big Finish has shown where a Torchwood revival can go with Aliens Among Us and God Among Us. Give the writers of the audio Series' 5 and 6 the reigns of Torchwood if it comes back to TV.
Clicked on this thinking “Deadwood” and was very confused why you were talking about Dr Who and not sweary cowboys
XD
Hmm... "Cowboys"...
I'd like to see a video about differences between American and British tv!
Season 4 was miles better than season 1
Nah
@@DalekCaanOfSkaro looking back at that comment that was an overstatement but personally I still think s4 is an improvement. I actually really liked s4 but I was just disappointed by the conclusion and pointless side characters. Whereas with s1 it has basically all of my least favourite episodes, an abysmal finale, Gwen cheating which I personally hated and... Abaddon. I did really like the team dynamic and when they fell apart however as previously stated I did not enjoy the episode after this so imo it didnt really hold up.
Doctor Who canon doesn't really have a coherent continuity, cracks in time, time war, wibbly wobbly timey wimey.
I was 12 when I watched Torchwood and I'm normal ish plus I liked all the murder
Personally, I think series 2 has a better overall story but I really enjoyed watching series 1, the individual episodes seem more solid, ignoring the series finale of course. Series 2 just seemed more boring to be, I can’t really place why.
Miracle day was just a another attempt to Americanize a BBC show like the 1996 Doctor Who movie.
You said torch wood I thought you meant plants vs zombies torch wood
Or gigs torch wood from battle for neighborville
“Until Matt Smith and Moffatt took over.” Yeah, man, I’m not listening to you anymore. Those series are utterly brilliant aaand….none of us miss you….
And you compared it to a Buffy. 😀😂😂😂
Fr
Haha drone shots. You know they were filmed with helicopters back then right? Creating airborne establishing shots was expensive and took professionalism and expensive equipment
I haven't ever heard of people walking away from DW after Mat Smith and Moffatt. In fact thats when most ppl around became familiar with it. Then i wasnt a nerd anymore. Cuz DW became something for the normies....ooohhhhhh😮 is that why?
0:27 I dont know the writing of the episodes seemed to be aiming for that age demographic, like any one older than 17 probably couldn't take the show seriously, it was way to childish
5:01 I dont know Dr who handled most of its stuff better. A theme doesnt save it for me if its executed awfully or in too childish a manner, which it nearly always did.
17:29 Honestly, throughout every season of Torchwood Rhys is the best character consistently. Just bar none guy is a unit, he's honest brave and true. He's too bloody good for the show.
We need end but sadly doctor who never show all story jack immortal where doctor in time torchwood bbc need torchwood story with doctor. Then left cliff hanger black guy who same as jack shame we never see it but where doctor ?? In that time ? Owen is well sad in end How he die and then never heals
But look is oki binge watch but u hate cliffhanger :c. Why dose peter Capaldi play so much roles as Greek, the Doctor Who and the torchwood guy evil
3>2>4=1
my good gentlemen you are a fine man
Russell T. Davies ended the show because he run out of ideas. Cancelled shame for real and l just want see jack
Yeah, Owen sucked HARD. But I did enjoy Torchwood.
Flayed for using o word
Torchwood failed. Sarah Jane Adventures didn't. This wasnt remotely Who.
Because it wasn’t meant to be. It was showing the reality of the human race.
You hated Moffat's era!? Well Chibnall's era makes Moffat look like a god and so does RTD2
I found the adult themes contrived like it was trying to be as nihilistic violent dark sexually explicit as possible like they where thinking how dark can we nake this and they always go as far as they can esp with the outlook and ideas well have cannibals "it makes us happy" heaven doesnt exist ect ect it made me roll my eyes at a lot of it edgelord style but some of the dark themes where done
The sexual stuff feels so adolescent and ott campy and silly
Sure Owen is a bit annoying, but he's not as bad as a certain non-canon female version of the Doctor
When the UK and Canada were making Torchwood, it was awesome. As a Canadian, just be happy you Brits don’t have to live next to them. It’s like living in a condo complex with a crack addict living in the apartment below and he’s always trying to burn the whole place down. And that’s how I feel about Miracle Day. Like a crack addict got ahold of my favourite show and ruined it like they do everything. Even their most notable sitcom, All in the Family, is a rip off of a much better show called Till Death Do Us Part. Now we’ll never get another Torchwood series, largely because the Americans came along and screwed it up. Typical.
Owen is the 2nd best character in the whoniverse.
Owen is still better then thirteen doctor and her companions because at least he has a personality.
Don't agree with you about Suzie, thought she came across as a poorly written spoiled brat. But agree with most of the rest of it. Thought it was overrated and trying too hard to be dark Dr Who.
I always found torchwood series 1 and 2 to be massively overrated, it’s so cheap and knock off, nobody can really act apart from Eve Myles of course, it’s over the top, over dramatic, very cringe at times, Burn Gorman is also overrated as an actor, the guy is just flat out cringe at most points whenever he’s meant to be doing anything dramatic. The only saving graces are Tosh and Gwen and Ianto. There’s no real good episodes at all because it’s all chibnall. There’s about 3 I’d ever rewatch again.
It only became sensational in series 3 and 4. It was a proper, gritty, scarily real, political, dark show for series 3 and 4, it was just a shame you needed 1 and 2 for all the context.
Wdym ‘nobody can really act’ the acting is actually amazing. Maybe the weird kids occasionally but the main 5??? They are great
@@Ianto_Jones meh not for series 1 and 2. Jacks really over dramatic and theatrical, Owens really amateur, even Ianto sometimes isn’t the best. Must be the scripts
In series 3 and 4 when it stopped being ridiculous the acting got phenomenal
@@obiwankenobi687 I completely disagree with you. Jack is meant to be a bit over the top. That’s his character. Idk what you are talking about with owen
@@Ianto_Jones bad acting
@@obiwankenobi687 his acting is great idk what you mean
Good old scooby doo clone with sex and violence. They even had a mystery machine.
Unfortunately it was rather poorly written, with some terrible eps. Very much a 12 year olds idea of maturity.
"The Curse of Peladon" in my opinion it is the most beautiful piece of television.
Every "Torchwood" episode in my opinion it is the most ugliest piece of television.