Hello there! This is a long one so I've got some timecodes for you in case you need to watch bit by bit :) Timecodes: Part I: Advertising and Expectations (01:10) Part II: The Companion Conundrum (04:51) Part III: The Episodes - Can You Hear Me? (08:57) - Nikola Tesla's Night of Terror (11:41) - Spyfall (12:51) - Fugitive of the Judoon (15:02) - Praxeus (16:49) - Orphan 55 (18:08) - The Haunting of Villa Diodati (19:19) - Ascension of the Cybermen (21:41) - The Timeless Children (24:03) Part IV: Final Thoughts and the Future of Who (26:40)
I agree I wish they didn't jump so much and drop so much exposition personally I think master shouldn't have been in the finale the lone cyberman was cool and the cyber war should have actually been shown
I think the finale would've been better with JUST the Master, as the Cybermen served almost no purpose. And I'm lowkey glad the Cyber War wasn't shown because if it's the same Cyber War as the one in Nightmare in Silver it'd block plans I have if I ever got to write for Doctor Who 😂
@@HarboWholmes ooooh yeah ugh the cybermen have just been Ruined by moffats nightmare in silver if they brought back classic cybermen like the mondasians then it could be better as they feel more human I just hope they don't try making the timeless child impact more as it was dumb how the time lords don't feel magestic or powerful anymore they just feel like fancy scientists I think chibnill needs to stick to broad church
Nah, I love Nightmare in Silver, if only for all the worldbuilding it has, there's so much potential in that. World Enough and Time/Doctor Falls did a great job restoring the body horror, human aspect of the Cybermen, it's just a shame that Chibnall has undone that
Most of this falls on Chibnall. He forgets his characters. The Doctor loses her companions and doesn't notice. Graham and Ryan make A HUGE deal about being family then when they get separated in Ascension of the Cybermen Graham has no anxiety about losing his grandson and is flirting with some rando.
Not just Chibnall, Whittaker is his little pet. She only has the role as he demanded it as a clause in his contract for Show Runner. She had seen all of two Tennant episodes before learning of the fact she was cast and when she was cast, she only watched another couple of episodes before deciding she hated it and wasn't going to be the Doctor. I'm not positive, but I am pretty certain the extra episodes she watched weren't even classic... they were from NuWho. Both her and Chibnall were boasting back in 2018, when Capaldi was still the Doctor, that they were going to destroy the shows canon so they didn't have to be tied to the old stuff and they could do what they wanted, because if they didn't they simply weren't capable of doing the show. ALL of this falls on Chibnall, Whittaker and the writing crew. Along with every person who defended this lot and who shouted fans protesting them down as every kind of bigot under the sun, instead of listening to the actual critiques being put forward and why these things were issues. It fails directly on the shoulders of moderators and admins on Facebook groups who agreed with all the protests and complaints, but in the interests of 'keeping the peace' and trying to not come across as elitists who dictate who is and is not a fan, censored and muted the people pointing out many of the varied points. As much as he is the ring leader... it's not just him to blame.
@Adam Campbell : 2 + another couple, out of 851 (or 294 if you count each x-parter as one) = a few altogether. @@PikaCinema : In Ascension, Graham wanted to go back for their friends, when the Doctor wasn't even around. That's not one of the instances Makros was refering to. The "Fam" keeps splitting up, the Doctor goes on her own thing and hardly even worries. The point about Fugitive being, the Doctor going on a run with Ruth and while there's a whole platoon of Judoon chasing them around (her as well as her fam), for a rather long time she doesn't even try to check in with them, they all each get taken by Jack and she's none the wiser - despite them all having these fun neck-comms. She even goes as far as blaming Ryan for having "lost" Graham (and then does as much as not following up on that). Not a companion, but in Praxeus Aramu straight out died and nobody ever mentioned him again. So, would you mind pointing out again where Makros or the OP lied or didn't pay attention?
I went from getting so excited and watching Peter's episodes the second they came out to just... not really caring about these ones. Watching them a few days later or something. Watching it just because "it's my favourite show?"
Basically all the Positive Stuff said by Harbo can be Debunked or Dismissed. Basically all the good stuff to be said is not really good for Real. What a sad thing in itself, isnt it?
The Cybemen *were* incapable of assimilating Time Lords. That was before the Master fixed that little problem for them. @@journey8533 There are a lot of legitimate complaints that can be made about Chibnell. That he doesn't know his canon isn't one of them. He's a fanboy from waaaaaay back, and in this season alone he's referenced everything from the Eternals to the Master's old Tissue Compression Eliminator to the Brain of Morbius.
The biggest problem with Jodie's "Fam" is their reason for being there. They were teleported away by accident and then just stay, and I get he feeling that Jodie's doctor doesn't care one way or another if they stay or not.
The scary thing is I can’t see who will replace Chibnall when he wants to move on. I feel like they just want to run Doctor Who into the ground and watch it die
Craig Matthews the sad thing is he is (or at least was) a Doctor Who fan. I genuinely think he believes he’s doing a good job but his run is diabolically bad. His line of work relies on good critical reception and good ratings so what is there to gain in destroying the Doctor Who series. The only thing to do as fans is stop watching a d let the BBC know you’re not watching because of what he’s doing to the show not that you’re tired if watching it. Keeping watching just keeps the ratings up so why would they change anything, they think the fans are happy.
The weird thing is that Season 12 is a significantly stronger season than Season 11. Stories like 'Spyfall', 'Fugitive of the Judoon', 'The Haunting of Villa Diodati' and 'Can you hear me?' were genuinely entertaining, twisty Who stories - and yet the BBC did almost zero promotion for them. Chibnall has some serious flaws as a writer, but he seems to have taken on board a lot of the criticisms of Season 11. He brought back classic villains, he got rid of that stupid 'no two-parters' rule ('It takes you away' would've been amazing as a two-parter), the stories are more tightly-plotted, etc. He still has a massive problem with telling rather than showing. If he can work on that next season it would fix around 80% of the outstanding issues IMO.
irrevenant3 the series may have been stronger but the ratings were down. I stopped watching in series 11 (having watched the show consistently since Pertwee’s debut) . 2 of my workmates families dropped it after seeing Spyfall part 1. The (alleged) improvements aren’t working. The same criticisms of season 11 are being made for series 12. And this man is no newcomer to writing TV series, he’s hardly refining his style, this is as good as he gets.
@@CraigTulloch I strongly suspect the ratings are so far down because so many people were burned by series 11 and haven't come back. (Also, I understand the BBC didn't do much to promote the show this time around?). Based on the ratings, twice as many people liked 'Arachnids in the UK' as liked 'Fugitive of the Judoon' or 'The Haunting of Villa Diodati'. I find that very hard to believe Prior to Season 12 I would have agreed with you about Chibnall - the mistakes he was making seemed to be the same ones as marred his older stuff like 'The Power of Three' and I had little hope of him suddenly getting better. But then he did! I don't know what happened to turn him around but the Season 12 episodes were much more polished and more tightly written than Season 11. And the season felt better overall. Even the worst episode of the season, 'Orphan 55' was better written than 2 or 3 episodes from Season 11, including the season finale.
irrevenant3 You’ve inadvertently answered your own question. Many people were burned by season 11 so much so that there is no reason for them to return when the show still has the same problems ie Chibnall as showrunner and writer, a charisma free performance from Whittaker in the titular role and 3 poorly written companions. Season 11 was so poor I actually started to hate the show. I won’t watch it until Chibnall and Whitaker are gone. I haven’t seen series 12 but Ive seen several reviews (I’m still a fan after all) and they’ve all said something similar that it improved slightly but kept making the same mistakes as in season 11. I’m amazed people are still watching the show. To me Chibnall has destroyed the show.
To write the now chosen one Doctor Who you need a chosen one writer: Neil Gaiman, who knows very well this franchise, has a lot of experience in sci-fi and fantasy, and likes a lot to write female characters.
Unfortunately, I think Gaiman has been burned by his experience with Nightmare in Silver. I also think I saw something where he said he doesn't want to be a showrunner for any show
Romel Muñoz Nial Gamein could not write his way out of a paper bag in terms of TV , he should stick to books , his mind is too vast for silly Sci fi that he can’t write BUT as a show runner and an ideas man he may have been good
The part about the political messages on DW could be resumed like this : No companion ever ( at least I think so) has seen a dalek and went " oh looks, they look like nazis", but now the messages are just like oh look he's gay, oh look racism is bad
“...they’re still just blank slates; devoid of character...” In the case of two of them, I’d agree. But, Graham did see quite a lot of character development in season 11 and that’s been carried forward into season 12. As painful as it was to watch season 11, because of his bereavement, Walsh’s character did have more depth and I could identify with him more; of course, being bereaved 8 months prior (my wife) had something to do with it, as I saw a lot of what I was going through in Graham’s actions.
Great video, this season really sucked. Really bad acting, really bad stories, really bad dialogue...it was just........really bad. Add to this the pointless retcon and the toxic fans.....so I’m out. I’ve been a fan since I first saw remembrance of the daleks in 1988. But thanks to chibnall and whittaker I’m done with this show.
Spot on, for much of this! The Doctor sounded like she was brushing off Graham, I think that was a problem. She didn't give trite, surface reassurances, but she also acted like she couldn't give a toss.The only reason is that she still seems like she's still in shock after losing Bill & Clara. Jodie has moments as the Doctor, & other moments as the actor simply following her cues & making her marks to play the Doctor.
I think it comes down to Jodi as an actress. She is a good actress, but I don't believe has the true range to make the Doctor work in all situations. I could easily imagine Capaldi making that scene work, and in their own unique way, Eccleston, Tennant and Smith. I hate to even think this, but is it our reaction to the Doctor being female and how that reads in certain scenes? Is the character of the Doctor so fundamentally male in the public consciousness that the gender swap doesn't work on a basic level? I don't know, but I've not enjoyed any of S11 or 12
The lone cyberman had the possible to be one of the best Villains. If he was Brendan, it would have worked out much better and it would have linked toward the final episode much better.
The absolutely only thing that will save the show from The Timeless Child is to have it completely erased, possibly as some kind of overall plot by the Master.... That the Hartnell doctor isn't the first is complete balls....
For me, the best thing that sums up the lack of care given to companion development is the fact that Ryan lives with Dyspraxia. They made a big deal about it for the first five minutes and then was promptly forgotten. As for the end of series 12; I'm vainly hoping that it turns out The Master got his info wrong and *he* is the timeless child, after all. It would give The Doctor her mystery back. It would be poetic irony that after The Master yearning for his own empire all this time it turns out he actually did have the most powerful one in the universe all along but, in ignorance and anger, destroyed it - that'd mess with his mojo!
The answer to the question of what went wrong doesn't need a 33 min video. It can be broken down to the following statement.... Chris Chibnall and the BBC refused to listen to the fans.
You know the fanbase is a big and diverse place, with all sorts of different opinions and ideas of what they want from the show. But yes, by all means, generalise them all
Has no one noticed that the marketing images / photos all tend to make The Doctor look like a damn wizard with a magic wand? Its the first thing I thought when I saw the series 11 cover image before I ever saw an episode. It made me concerned, like the new team really didn't understand what Doctor Who was. Sadly that turned out to be true.
The Timeless cild arc and the destruction of Gallifrey...why? First off, I hated what they did to Gallifrey. We caught glimpses in Series 4 but did not get a full picture until The Day of the Doctor. Then we don’t catch another glimpse until Hell Bent. As a fan of old and new Who I was finally happy to see that revisited but then they’re gone again. Not just that but, unless it’s retconned, Gallifrey is no more. Hell, they even made it impossible to bring The Time Lords back as they were cyber-converted (and then got blown up for good measure so you know that they’re truly gone). I don’t know who thought that was a good idea. Perhaps they wanted to revert back to before the 50th anniversary but as a result it robs that special because it was saved to be destroyed. Why not leave Gallifrey out of the stories then? The Timeless Child concept, again, why? I have so many problems with it messing up the canon universe but why add that lore on to The Doctor. You took the idea of “A Man Who Stole a Box and Ran Away” to The Doctor is not Gallifreyan and is the unspoken Genesis of all Time Lords. Effectively The Doctor is the God of Gallifrey. THIS WAS NOT NECESSARY. If I were to guess why Chibnall went this route I would gather that he wanted to do something grandeur like his predecessors, give the Master a new reason to hate The Doctor, and be one to give further backstory to The Doctor. Unfortunately this failed monumentally in every aspect, pissed off it’s fanbase, and as of writing this we’re two companions down and there are rumors that Jodie is bowing out after this next series. If she did to spend more time with her family I have a gut feeling that it’s because she realizes that her iteration is not the Doctor. Not that a female can’t play the character(I actually like Jodie for the spunk she brings) but because the writers do not know HOW to write or work with this Doctor.
As a massive RTD-era fanboy, and as the most stubborn and angry Moffat hater since 2011, every ounce of me wanted to like the Whittaker era, and wanted to be able to use it as evidence that the Moffat era was uniquely bad in some way. I was holding judgement on this entire series until the finale, to see what the big character and story moments would end up being. Sadly, I can now safely say, Chibnall has proven that he's so much worse than Moffat that it's not even close. He makes Moffat's stories look sensible and self-contained, and Moffat's characters look well written and developed, by comparison. That was possibly the biggest mess of a story arc I've ever seen.
I'm also a huge RTD-era fanboy, but I loved the Moffat era too, tbh. It's annoying because Chibnall claimed that Series 12 would be more like the RTD-era, but it was all just recycled from it. Chibnall has done absolutely nothing worthwhile with the golden goose he was given, instead, he just used the opportunity to forcefully canonise his childhood fanfiction about the Cartmel Masterplan and Brain of Morbius.
@@HarboWholmes the RTD era was about characters first and foremost. The Chibnall era has no characters. I thought the same about the Moffat era, but even fuckin Clara was more of a character than the current companions.
Oi, watch it, Clara is my favourite NuWho companion 😉 But I wholeheartedly agree that the Chibnall era hs no characters, everyone is just a blank, lifeless mannequin, basically
Sorry, I just love the Twelve/Clara partnership! 😂 Martha is second and then Donna, then Rose (I don't really count Wilf and Jack as 'main' companions, they were occasional companions a la Mickey and River Song)
I know series 11 has its haters but I'd rather have another series 11 than 12. 12 has significant tone problems and feels like a weird torchwood series. I didn't mind the soundtrack or VFX. That was all I liked
Keep chris chibnall away from doctor who is all i am saying .The timeless child arc is basically his fan fiction that he has shoehorned into the show. I also Like Whittiker its just a shame she has been give such a flat character with no quirks
End of series 11 character development: Yaz: policewoman. Just cause Ryan: has dyspraxia Graham: lost his wife End of series 12 character development: Yaz: a policewoman because she was inspired by another policewoman Ryan: has dyspraxia and a friend who has problems Graham: lost his wife and is scared of cancer K then
ApexArmy youre just going around and nitpicking comments because you actually liked this series, aren’t you bud? i am legitimately curious as to why you liked it.
Now, correct me if I’m wrong, but the timeless children shouldn’t even exist. We have seen, several times, that the doctor was a child, and had a home on gallifrey. In Listen, we see Clara grab the Doctor’s ankle in the middle of the night, causing the whole episode to begin with. In Hell Bent, the Doctor escapes the confessional and awakens on gallifrey, next to the same home. The Doctor is not a being from another dimension, no. The Doctor was born on Gallifrey, like the rest of the time lords, and left out of boredom. The Doctor did not “escape” being tortured, as the Doctor remembers Gallifrey quite fondly. The Doctor remembers being a child. The Doctor went to school. Chibnall’s excuse for a finale should not be considered canon. It should not even exist. We know how Gallifrey ended, with the Last Great Time War. It was not “burned down” by the master, creating nonexistent conflict. Gallifrey is within the 3D painting, sealed away. This is why, to my knowledge, that the Timeless Children is a bunch of malarkey, and shouldn’t even exist to begin with.
Yeah, that whole thing with "Listen" was the immovable object with the story. You really can't place the idea of the Doctor being an immortal being when we saw their childhood.
Well... not that i'm excusing this or trying to defend it but, what I **think** they're going to try to do is say that the Doctor has had their memory erased. You see this with the Ruth Doctor somehow being part of the past but the Doctor not remembering her and then there were those strange asides to the small Irish(?) town where there was a man who had strange regenerative abilities (like the Doctor has now been revealed to have, more than normal) then at the end of his life, they do --something-- to him and thank him for his service and wasn't there something with a timepiece? There was also a scene with like a secret Time Lord secret agency or something. I don't remember clearly, it all sucks and is dumb. Anyway, to bring this all back together, there is a Time Lord Agency which the Doctor was recruited into to do various deeds which are probably very bad and wrong and after leaving said agency for whatever reason, their memory was wiped and that's why we don't know about the Ruth Doctor and also why there are now 15 Doctors and counting because we all needed to have that explained to us. So, after that, the Doctor had their memory wiped and was forcefully regenerated? into a child? and just tossed into some neighborhood to live as normal? I don't know. I sort of like the idea that it's just a lie told by the Master and they can just trash it because it's really dumb. Chibnall is like a really bad Hollywood producer who just sees something he thinks is cool and wants to jam it into their own thing. Like, "having the secret War Doctor was such a cool idea, remember when that happened? wasn't that so cool? Yeah, let's do it again! Secret Doctor!"
@Kaagh178 like I said, I wasn't defending it. And, what is the shadow proclamation? Is that like, a real thing with backstory or something they threw in and kept referencing? At least they could have used that somehow maybe but it seems like Chibnall has no sense of the history of the show. Disappointing is really the best description of it.
What I find utterly incredible and obhorrent, is that Chibnall had the cheek to steal most of the Series 12 storylines from previous Doctor Who episodes and then turned the stories into garbage?!
The big on being that this is the third time that the Master has used the Cybermen in a finale to his own devices and the second time they've raised the dead with them.
I feel like he just doesn't get doctor who. This is the first review i've seen actually making good points. I think someone can write a good story but if the characters suck and you don't actually care about them you won't care about the plot either and it just doens't work
@@peacemaster8117 Pretty sure some people are upset because she's a girl. A lot of the criticisms are some variant of "Thirteen hasn't had any Doctor moments" (ie. powerful dramatic speeches). Which pretty much boil down to "The Doctor isn't as masculine as she used to be". Few people would overtly say they have a problem with the Doctor being a woman (though a few have). Quite a few people seem to object to the Doctor being less forceful and brash (ie. more feminine) than she used to be.
@@peacemaster8117 How are the criticisms that I cited valid? Why does the Doctor have to be forceful and confronting rather than emotionally sensitive and collaborative in order to feel like a legitimate Doctor? How is her performance not appropriate for the first female incarnation of a character who goes through regular massive personality changes? If the criticisms are valid then sure, maybe I'm just projecting. *Are* they? Why?
@@charlesman8722 Spyfall was great, but I failed to appreciate the rest (still ok) . Also the timeless children is the worst thing that happened to doctor who ever.
Good question. The Doctor didn’t hang off a cliff with an umbrella for no reason , the Moon wasn’t declared an egg, the Mary Shelley episode was watchable, and not all of the episodes were set on Earth. Otherwise... I don’t understand the love for Spyfall.
I just hope they don't give up on a female Doctor now and blame the failure on sexism. I'd love a female Doctor with great character development, with an actress who's a fan of the show and cares about the character and a director who knows what the show is about. I could just not watch, but I've come to care so much about the show and about the character that it hurts to see it become this shadow of what it used to be. I want to look forward to episodes again, to feel exited when watching them.
I always loved how easy to compare the Sci-Fi-Worlds in Science Fiction are. The Cyber-Collectives are a great example/measurement-tool for that! Stargate has one, Star Trek has one, Doctor Who has one. You can easily see how inferior Doctor Who to Star Trek and Star Trek to Stargate is. Alone from the Effiency of those beings that basically are walking Effiency - or at least they should be. Cyberman and Dalek are actually on RUclips on Lists like "Top 10 Alien Races that are too Dumb to Exist!" And yeah, that summs it up very well. Stargates Cosmos is just more realistic and the most realistic. Star Trek is second-place. And Doctor Who? It's just so filled with Plot Holes and Dumb Alienc Races and Nonsense that it could never ever exist. Makes it all the more laughable in what state those 3 Franchises are. Stargate is just sleeping while the other 2 (3 if you count Star Wars) Self-Destruct in an amazing FIREWORK!
@@slevinchannel7589 Sir I don't think you understand why people watch Doctor Who. It may be filled with plot holes and stupidity but it's fun. Why do you think it lasted so long if it was so bad?
@@user-jn1wm3tb8v I understood that exactly, buddy. Plot Holes but still fun. The problem is, the fans are widely wrong here. Just like people enjoey Moffats other show, Sherlock, which was objectively trash. I dont say that goes for all of Doctor Who, i get it, it's not to think too much about but to have fun - that's more or less fine. But in the bigger picture, it's actually not fine.
Imo,we should have had another season with Bill.Even though her character arc was wrapped up perfectly,i think that Bill and 13th would have had better chemistry together
Personally I didn't really care much for Bill, but I definitely prefer her to the current companions. It would definitely be interesting to see how the chemistry between her and The Doctor would have changed with the regeneration
Capaldi Clara was definately better than smith Clara, though I still think Moffat missed an opportunity with Victorian Clara being the Clara we got, that would have been much cooler
I wasn't a big fan of Bill at the time but going back and watching series 10 now, I think she's great. She showed great emotional range and had great chemistry with Capaldi. I think that her storyline wrapped up perfectly and imo I don't know if the dynamic would work between 13 and Bill. I think it would've been great to see them together and see how Bill reacts to regeneration, but I think that the doctor would have tried to distance themself from Bill after regeneration. Idk though. I just think that there is such a stark contrast between 12 and 13 that I'm honestly not sure how Bill and 13's dynamic would be like. I'd also be a little odd about how Chibnall would write Bill. Still think it would be interesting to see though x
I see too much Broadchurch influence in the Chibnall era so far with it's dark, brooding drama and slow burn mysteries. Doctor Who needs to be fun with interesting stories and adventures which is completely missing because I feel like it's being directed as more of a drama than anything else hence the drawn out character development or lack there of for mysterious reasons. Besides Broadchurch I am also feeling LOST vibes where the mystery is great but the answers are bad, bad, bad. This video is the best one I have seen for criticism of Season 12. I can tell you are a fan who is disappointed like me and not jumping to hatred or despise. I also completely agree with you about the true message of Doctor Who and how The Timeless Children dropped the ball on that. Here is to Doctor Who recovering in the near future.... I hope. Thanks for the video.
Thank you, I'm glad you enjoyed the video. Yeah, I found myself each week WANTING to enjoy each episode, but almost all of the time I found myself bored and/or disappointed, it just made me quite sad that I couldn't enjoy Doctor Who. I think I'm pretty much done with the Chibnall era but I know Doctor Who can get better and I'll definitely give the next showrunner a chance! And I agree about the drama thing. The show never seems to portray travelling with the Thirteenth Doctor as fun, if anything, it makes it look awful. Before, travelling with The Doctor seemed dangerous, but FUN. It was an exciting adventure, but now...why would you want to go with her? If that was the point, some intentional choice for narrative purposes, it would be a good direction, but it's clearly not.
Chibnall seems to be a one trick pony. Broadchurch was okay, but it was just filler TV really. You watch it and its okay, but then you never really think about it or want to watch it again. Doctor Who requires much more talent.
@Kaulinis That's the truth. The only way this gets fixed is to get rid of Chibnall and bring in someone with real talent and skill for writing and running a sci-fi series. Then some of Chibnall's antics will need to be retconned, and the longer he sticks around the more will need to get reconned. If he sticks around much longer it may prove incredibly difficult if not impossible. Chibnall is so much of a self-righteous, pompass ass that I could see him writing stores in the next series to dig in and entrench the ridiculous Timeless Children narrative. Depending on how much damage he does he may just permanently kill Doctor Who as a franchise. Which I really hope does not happen.
Harbo Wholmes do you plan to keep watching the show? I’ve stopped since the end of Season 11. It’s really sad as I’ve been a fan since Pertwee’s debut and only stopped once before (After McCoy’s first season). This feels like the same slow demise that came about at that time. Now with the Covid shutdown there’ll be an even longer wait for Chibnall to produce more steaming mediocrity. What a sad state for a once great show to end up in.
I agree with this all so much. The only thing I will say counter to this is that I would like to see Jodi in a a season without Chibnall. There are time that I see a Doctor in her. So the potential is there. That said, I've hated most of the Doctors when they are new because I loved the previous one so much and was sad to see them go, however, by they time they, themselves are leaving I love them and hate their replacement. But with Jodi, I do not hate her, but I wouldn't morn her like I did Tennent, Smith, or Capaldi. Same with the companions. If any of the companions died I would be a bit sad. But would I cry over them like Clara, or Rose? Would I feel the sorrow I felt for Donna or Bill? No, I wouldn't. I like them all, but two episodes after their death I wouldn't think of them again. I have loved Doctor Who because it's a show that can make you laugh, feel absolute terror, and make you tear up all in the span of an hour. But other than the occasional chuckle I feel none of the same emotions this show has brought for numerous series. So with all that in mind I think that Chibnall and "His" Doctor Who are the problem. Maybe the cast is absolutely amazing and it could have been so much worse. Give them all a Chibnall free series to see what they can do. They at least deserve the shot to make me love them.
Yeah, I agree that there is potential with Jodie, even though I only see The Doctor in her very rarely. I think Chibnall would struggle with any Doctor of his own creation. Tennant and Smith were already established as The Doctor and also incredible actors in the role, so they were able to carry Chibnall stories, but now that Chibnall has complete control, the cast suffers. I really do want a chance to care about Jodie and her companions, but I think it's too late, given the news that Ryan and Graham are leaving in the special.
I can understand that for sure. I loved several of the Chibnall written episodes prior to him being the show runner. I do agree that possible that Smith and Tennant just carried an average story to great lengths. I was very saddened to hear about Graham and ryan’s departure from the show after the special. Yaz is easily the least developed and my least favorite of the current companions.
I think 42 and Power of Three were the only good Chibnall episodes before he took over, but 42 suffers from being too visually similar to Impossible Planet/Satan Pit and Power of Three has that trademark Chibnall rushed ending. I'm also sad Graham and Ryan are leaving, but mainly because of Graham, he's easily the best of the three companions and I'd rather have him stay on and the other two leave, since he has interesting chemistry with The Doctor that could be explored further. Like I say in the video, having staggered introductions to the companions would have solved a lot of the problems and given us more time to form relationships with each. It's a shame they rushed into such a crowded cast. Hopefully Yaz can benefit from being the sole companion but I can't imagine she'd be the only one, I can see them having another companion as well
@@HarboWholmes Honestly I think Chibnall needs to spend some time sitting down and seriously asking himself two questions: 1. What exactly is this new Doctor like as a person? 2. How do I convey that on screen (preferably without overreliance on exposition)? Season 12 improved a little in this regard. It's now clearer that Thirteen is a DIY Doctor more inclined to *build* solutions and who geeks out over people like Tesla. But we need more. We had a better feel for who Nine is as a character by the end of his far-too-short run than we do for Thirteen after two seasons. :(
I only just learned upon reading this comment thatGraham and Ryan are leaving. Someone already said it but Graham was just the best companion for the doctor. I think if he had been the only companion then it would have been pretty great. The doctor arrives in the world after regenerating, meets Graham and his wife, then they get involved in trying to save a man’s life resulting in Grace(?)’s death. With no more attachments, Graham asks to go with the doctor to see the universe in an effort to avoid the loss of his wife. Thereby have the end of the series involve him having to deal with that loss rather than the one episode that has him in the fantasy world with her. This could have been a great character moving point but it was squandered by spending time on a “diverse” cast. Rather than making it an interesting cast.
Another reason why the companions in series 12 feel underdeveloped is because the Doctor keeps getting separated from them, and there are too many characters of the day.
Yeah, I kept wanting to talk about that more but I thought the video would be too long for me to have ready for this week aha. In almost every episode there are AT LEAST two side characters that get a lot of screentime and basically become companions for the week, despite there already being three. Just look at Tesla's Night of Terror, Can You Hear Me? and Praxeus. There are just too many people all at once
@@HarboWholmes Like, earlier seasons of New Who usually only focused on the Doctor, the companion(s), and the villain(s). "Partners in Crime" had three main players: the Doctor, Donna, and Mrs. Foster. "The Shakespeare Code" had the Doctor, Martha, Shakespeare, and the carrionites. "Boom Town" had the Doctor, Rose, Mickey, Jack, and Blon. Imagine how terrible series 4 would be if every episode was like "Midnight".
Yeah. Boom Town is a great three-companion episodes because there are only two other characters that have a lot of screen time (Doctor and Margaret.) The more characters you add, the less time each gets to do anything, and that's why these companions in the Chibnall era have nothing to do. I mean, Praxeus literally has The Doctor, three companions, three not-companions, a villain and a side character on top of that! That's far too many. The only time Doctor Who has worked as an ensemble with a big cast is Stolen Earth/Journey's End, because those were all returning characters from the Doctor Who universe we had had hours to get to know
@@HarboWholmes I think "Can You Here Me?" was the worst offender. The Syrian woman is in about three scenes, and they don't use her background to the story's advantage, because she has the same experience with nightmares as the companions' friends.
They paid lip-service to mental health whilst simultaneously gaslighting highly depressed and anxious fans as well as mocking Graham’s cancer. I’m sorry, but this was handled appallingly.
@Problembeing Since you said it was "handled appallingly," I'm guessing the problem was execution not the fact that the Doctor reacted the way she did. The way I've heard that scene described by Bolwstrek, and I think Nerdrotic it seems like the Doctor was more apathetic to Graham's anxiety, rather than wanting to help but didn't know what to say that moment to comfort him. Another problem is this was later in the series where the Doctor should've been established as her age sagely wisdom surfaces every now and then, and this would've been a good moment to showcase that, but they opted not to.
DemonicRemption it was handled appallingly at every level. First, the actor should know the character, she had plenty of opportunity to study The Doctor, she opted not to. The fact no one told her that given that this is the number one job on TV and the fans are sticklers for detail, they let her get away with ‘blank slating’ The Doctor, which leads me to Chibnall, the one who first told her to just ‘read the script’. He has allowed this actor to play this role for 2 seasons with seemingly nothing in the way of notes to make her tone things down and has written her as fairly two-dimensional, either flapping her mouth off in exposition at rapid speed, or in lecture mode of a scornful primary schoolteacher. There’s no depth and apparently only two settings. Chibnall has failed to bring out what every other show runner and their new Doctor has managed to do within their first one or two episodes. Apart from those two things, of course the director must have played their part in allowing this Sven to be played out with the cold stage direction, but as the star of the show, why didn’t Whittaker protest? Tom Baker certainly would have! because she’s there to read the script, she hasn’t studied the character. The writers played this scene for a giggle, and it was played that way. No two ways about it. The fact this was allowed to happen after all the lip-service to mental health, mot one person from actor, producer to director to editor said ‘this is a bad idea?’ - and, finally, for the BBC to absolutely double-down on this with their usual dismissive and patronising response to the criticism was nothing but sheer hubris and gaslighting.
I suffer from depression and anxiety and found that episode to be ignorant and insulting. "Vincent and the Doctor" addressed depression in the right way while Chibnall made it sound like depression is nothing more than a temporary case of the blues. It's not. And as someone who tends to be socially awkward, I can tell you that if a friend of mine came to me and said they were concerned about their cancer (or anything, for that matter), I would show a lot more compassion that the fake Doctor did. I really think this episode did more harm than good. And if was boring.
John D I sympathise with you completely. I suffer the black dog too, and have seen two friends die from cancer, and for that line to be delivered for laughs was a tasteless error of judgment that should have seen the lot of them sacked the very next day alone. Not satisfied with doing that, they doubled-down; tripled-down; quadrupled-down and went on to obliterate canon for nothing more than more lip-service and racialist tokenism. They should be ashamed! They have caused no end of damage to this show, fragmented the fandom, and to top it off made people who rely on this show to see them through the dark days feel utterly shattered and broken. It’s unforgivable!
@@Problembeing They've trivialized depression and anxiety, shown a cold disregard for people with cancer and destroyed a show I've been a fan of for over 40 years...a show that I have relied on as an escape when things got really dark for me. And yes, they've totally divided the fanbase of a show that people have loved for decades just so Chibnall and Whittaker can promote their own views. Rather than totally destroy canon, why can't Chibnall move the show forward? I mean, I know he has no original ideas and clearly doesn't understand the show, but to undo everything we've known about the show just because he wanted to double-down on diversity is maddening. Rather than change Doctor Who, just create your own show with it's own canon.
If I was gonna do a female Doctor, I would’ve gone with someone like Helena Bomham Carter, Michelle Gomez, or the woman that played Idris. They remind me of like Troughton, or McCoy, or even Matt Smith, acting silly, but then they become scary when provoked.
tgiacin435 other woman who would also be good is Ruth Wilson , Eve Myles and Nicola (last tango) and your right Helen binam crater and idris (Surrane Jones btw) would also be good female Doctor , Jodie comes around like a dumb blonde stereotype
I was hoping it would be Suranne Jones, she would have made an incredible Doctor and had the presence to be overwhelming to her enemies. I loved her in the Matt Smith episode, The Doctors Wife.
Theresa Swan yeah, she reminds me so much of Helena Carter, definitely the type that can play the Doctor, and treat the sex change as another part of the regeneration he/she will just have to deal with, but also have fun with it. Hell I’d love to see the interaction between her River and/or the Master
Season 11 was chibnall doing his own version of doctor who and it failed, so for season 12 he basically just filled the series with stuff we've seen before, a secret doctor, a master reveal, Cybermen, destroyed galifrey, a secret to be revealed etc, and it still didn't work in my opinion. Chibnall didn't impress me with his stories before he became show runner and he's proven not to be impressive now
Yeah, I've never really liked Chibnall's contributions to Doctor Who even before he became showrunner, so I was dreading his era from the start. If Series 11 wasn't so bad, maybe Series 12 would have been better, but Chibnall is definitely the wrong choice to be showrunner
@@HarboWholmes agreed, Jaime mathison who wrote mummy on the Orient express and flatine should have been the next show runner those two episodes alone are better than all of chibbnals stories put together
Jamie Mathieson's episodes were great, but I'm not sure about showrunner, I don't really know enough about his other writing credits to know if he has experience in a showrunning role. I'd definitely love him to write more episodes, though. I think one of the biggest issues with the Chibnall era is that apart from Chibbers himself, we haven't had any previous writers return
@@HarboWholmes very true, I think big finish should be given the chance to do their own live series of doctor who, they've certainty proven themselves to have amazing writers and original ideas the current product desperately needs
@@xenon8117 Season 12 didn't, though. Of the 10 episodes in Season 12, only three of them were set primarily in present day ('Spyfall Part 1', 'Fugitive of the Judoon', and 'Praxeus'). Two ('Spyfall Part 2' and 'Can you hear me?') spent around half the episode in present day but also spent a fair amount of time bouncing around through time and/or visiting alien worlds/dimensions. Five of them ('Orphan 55', 'Nikola Tesla's Night of Terror', 'The Haunting of Villa Diodati', 'Ascension of the Cybermen' and 'The Timeless Children') spent the entire episode in other time periods. That would be a legitimate complaint about seasons 9 or 10, but 11 and 12 have been a lot more varied.
You can’t just make a whole episode about some disability and then give the episode a weak story, the story needs to be impactful and doesn’t need to shove the message right into your face
The thing is though, *most* of the execution is hamfisted, not just the political messaging ("Oh by the way Yaz, you're the greatest person ever. Just thought I'd mention that, k thx bai"). The more I think about it, the more I think Chibnall's tendency to tell rather than show is *the* major problem. He got a little bit better about it this season and if he can get *much* better at it next season I think that'll resolve about 80% of the show's issues.
I always loved how easy to compare the Sci-Fi-Worlds in Science Fiction are. The Cyber-Collectives are a great example/measurement-tool for that! Stargate has one, Star Trek has one, Doctor Who has one. You can easily see how inferior Doctor Who to Star Trek and Star Trek to Stargate is. Alone from the Effiency of those beings that basically are walking Effiency - or at least they should be. Cyberman and Dalek are actually on RUclips on Lists like "Top 10 Alien Races that are too Dumb to Exist!" And yeah, that summs it up very well. Stargates Cosmos is just more realistic and the most realistic. Star Trek is second-place. And Doctor Who? It's just so filled with Plot Holes and Dumb Alienc Races and Nonsense that it could never ever exist. Makes it all the more laughable in what state those 3 Franchises are. Stargate is just sleeping while the other 2 (3 if you count Star Wars) Self-Destruct in an amazing FIREWORK!
@@slevinchannel7589 "Inferior" depends what you're looking for. Stargate SG-1 was arguably more realistic (although the Goa'uld suffer from most of the same "too stupid to live" complaints that can be made about the Cybermen and the Tau'ri repeatedly punch at ludicrously levels above their weight). That said, youvre making a lot of assumptions about how a cyber-collective should work. Any network is going to be constrained by its core functions. The replicators were created to replicate and seem to have complete neural freedom to explore and innovate beyond that core function. Cybermen are fundamentally human beings with their emotions removed and humans are not fundamentally designed to function as a hive race. In many ways cyber-conversion is a downgrade since emotions are at the root of a lot of human motivation and ingenuity. They were originally created as a desperation move to let people survive the collapse of their world. They were never made to be a super-effective networked race and they aren't. That doesn't mean SG-1 is better - it just means its cyber-creatures were made under different circumstances with different goals. Personally I like all three series in different ways. Doctor Who can indeed be very camp and imaginative and silly in its SF. Sometimes it owes more to Hitch-hiker's Guide to the Galaxy than serious SF. If you don't enjoy that aspect of the show, that's fine. That's not a matter of "better", it's a matter of different tastes.
This could have been a great story arc for the introduction of the next doctor for example. Reveal that the timeless child under pressure from torture and experimentation snapped and lost control of her power( do not make her the doctor) creating the time vortex and giving the time lords the power of regeneration. Hint at the doctor having some understanding of where the power of regeneration actually comes from as one of the underlying reasons why the Doctor ran away you could even hint at the doctor unknowingly being responsible for the atrocities against the timeless child if you want. Put a heavy emphasis on the big reveal that the power comes from grave atrocities and every regeneration is done via power stolen from an innocent being this could be used to set up a conflict later on where Jodi is dying but now that she is fully aware of where her power comes from she's resisting the urge to regenerate but the timeless child although angry at the time lords for what they've done to her and extremely conflicted sees all the good the Doctor has done and struggles internally but for the greater good goes to make peace with the doctor giving both the chance to vent their emotions and allowing Jodi to realize that regardless of how she got the power of regeneration the fact that she has constantly tried help others in need and the timeless child seeing the good in a dark situation gives both characters closure so Jodi can regenerate
The timeless child should have been the master or a character we font know much about like the other. If it was the master, it would explain a lot of stuff.
Just want to point out that the “best” episode, “Nikola Tesla’s Night of Terror” the best part of it was Tesla, not the doctor or her companions, but Tesla
I know this is late but it really annoyed me that the Eddison actor was too old. He was just 9 years older than Tesla in real life and it didn't look like that at all on screen
@@michelleschaefer683 Basically all the Positive Stuff said by Harbo can be Debunked or Dismissed. Basically all the good stuff to be said is not really good for Real. What a sad thing in itself, isnt it?
Thankful you brought up the music, haven't seen anyone else bring this up yet and it's a really important part of the show and to me, not that that would matter. But since Gold left, the music has been lacking in emotion, adrenaline and interest, the music hasn't got the substance that it used to, which is a shame, i have trouble remembering almost any of the episodes not just because the stories were... eh.... but the music makes such a difference, it's made to make you feel and think and engage with things, but in the last 2 series', it just hasn't been there, and that's a real shame.
@@jcfawerd Nothing is less Empowering than all of this Modern Wokeness. I implore everyone who's still sane to share some Knowledge with others, even if you may come across as a bit spammy: I hope you share Links to good Analysis like this one and i hope you correct Fans who say Doctor Who is now better than everrr.
Something that bugs me with people who tried to defend 11, and still bring it up with 12, is the First episode's numbers. The viewing numbers of the first episode of a season has Very little to do with the quality of the show itself. It says "Advertising was good." It says "The prior seasons were good." It's like saying fish love dying on a boat because so many bite the hook.
Yup. I'm fairly confident the viewer ratings for Season 12 mostly reflect how they feel about Season 11. Noone is ever going to convince me that 'Arachnids in the UK' deserves twice the ratings of 'Fugitive of the Judoon' or 'The Haunting of Villa Diodati'...
Unfortunately, I have to agree with you on most of your points. The main things I disagree with are the episode "Can You Hear Me" (I very much appreciated the effort, as I too struggle with mental health, but I didn't think the episode was very well executed) and your statement that Jodie still doesn't feel like the Doctor. (I actually see her in the role now, but I don't connect with her and also think she was probably miscast.) I wish I could say I won't be back for series 13 but I can't really resist Doctor Who.
That's fair enough! I can see where you're coming from. The mental health message was kind of just tacked on and didn't really fit the rest of the episode. I agree about Series 13. Right now I really don't want to come back for it, but I'll probably end up watching it anyway. Although that being said, I stopped watching Series 11 after Rosa and didn't get tempted back (although I did watch Kerblam! and Battle of Root Canal)
Yeah, it's why I said that literally any episode could have come after Ghost Monument. I know a lot of people liked that the stories were completely standalone, but the problem is that the stories weren't even all that good anyway
@@HarboWholmes How do you figure the mental health message was tacked on to 'Can You Hear Me?'? The villain was an eternal enemy who turns your own thoughts into monsters to use against you, who can never be fully defeated, only temporarily locked away by facing and owning your monsters. It's a blatant metaphor for depression. Tahira and Tibo went through the same basic journey over the course of the episode in different ways, Tahira's monsters were just more physical than Tibo's.
The biggest problem I have with the new doctor and the little I saw was that it didn't feel like dr who. Dr who is essentially the fantastical adventure of a very old and very wise melancholic time traveller who's a tad mad and ruthless at times due to his years of experience and what he's done. This makes the series very political at times, very melancholic at others, and quite hilarious even. It was a rather enjoyable experience because the show covered so much shit at once, and most of it was a good view. Now here comes the new female doctor, I for one was actually interested in seeing how a female doctor would react to being a woman, and how it would affect his/her behaviour. What I did not expect was the story taking a complete backseat to politics, it completely forgetting how to balance humor, melancholy and seriousness. It completely revamped the doctor's personality. The new doctor has nothing in common with any previous doctors in recent history... It just feels like a different production crew who came in and went "yea, fuck reading up on the lore, fuck hiring writers - just put some snappy jokes in there and riddle it with current politics - it'll be greaaaat!".
I just get so bored watching this I can’t watch any of it. It’s just so boring and predictable. It is like a 8 year old wrote this and they got the actors from the street. If she doesn’t regenerate soon then the show will be so plain and boring
@@James_Ravenscroft Everyone sees things differently but that wasn't my experience. The ending of Spyfall Part 1 surprised me. I didn't see the main twist in Orphan 55 coming, nor the one with Bella. I didn't know what the purpose of the sphere in the Tesla episode was or what the aliens were after at first. Fugitive of the Judoon surprised me about three different times. I *was* suspicious of the well-equipped shack in the middle of nowhere in Praxeus, but I didn't anticipate the nature of the threat (which was a clever concept, IMO) and I didn't guess what the aliens' goal was. I didn't anticipate the twist with the captured young woman in "Can you hear me?". I didn't anticipate the nature of the haunting in "The Haunting of Villa Diodati". I didn't anticipate the ending of "Ascension of the Cybermen". In short, almost every episode had at least one thing that came as a surprise, sometimes more. If you picked most of those then you're probably just better at anticipating twists than me. Personally I didn't find the stories this season predictable.
Wow! This is the most neutral review of the show. I liked the season, well, most of it, but the lore just got destroyed. When I tell my friends that I watch DW I want them to see the magnificence of the show that has been carefully handcrafted by the producers. I don't want them to look at it and be like, "What bullshit is this?"
Basically all the Positive Stuff said by Harbo can be Debunked or Dismissed. Basically all the good stuff to be said is not really good for Real. What a sad thing in itself, isnt it?
The entirety of the Chibnall era has been dreadful. I have stopped watching, as have many long time fans. It no longer feels like Doctor Who. Even at its worst, the Capaldi era still felt like (poor) Doctor Who. This just feels like something completely different and the heart has been ripped out.
Damn, I was just working on a video called The Companion Conundrum! I feel exactly the same about Chibnall's era, it's made it difficult for me to enjoy.
I am very much looking forward to your Companion Conundrum! The neglect of the companions' characterisations has much hampered my enjoyment of the show.
Series 12 is the worst series of the modern show. Even as someone who genuinely enjoyed series 11 this killed my investment in the show. The biggest moments feel they don't have the weight they should or just forced and are often retreads of stuff done before. Gallifrey's gone again, the Master is just John Simm light except on crack(and they forgot Missy's development), Jack back cause RTD stans are the vocal minority, the Turned Jodie into 10lite with incredibly forced sounding dark moments. Jodie definitely has the range to do it but it just feels unearned.
Eh, I found it more enjoyable than Series 11, but I do agree that there is no weight to any of the big moments and a lot of it is recycled from RTD and Moffat. I did enjoy The Master in this and I'm holding out hope that it's pre-Missy to explain why they binned off her development. In terms of Jodie I've always thought her take on The Doctor is just a bad Tennant impression mixed with a CBBC presenter
Eh I liked season 12 far more than season 11... Thou tbh they are still both in my lower half in the ranking of new who. As for the master, I think Sasha's take was far better then Simms with him just seeming more meaning and physical.
Chibnall: ‘I don’t want the Doctor to be a super important god-like hero like they have been’ Also Chibnall: So the Doctor is basically the entire reason the Time Lords can regenerate now
I strongly suspect that the Timeless Child reveal was in order to set up stories for Season 13 and beyond. I'm guessing that Season 13 will feature the Doctor searching for her true origins and dealing with the fallout from her time with The Division. I don't think either of those storylines would work if the Timeless Child was someone else. Imagine the Doctor finally finds the Timeless Children and discovers they're a menace to be feared - and now the Doctor has drawn their attentions to our universe. Is that a more interesting story if the Doctor is a Timeless Child who fled the evil empire to escape and now has to face up to them to defend all she cares about? Or if the Doctor is a Gallifreyan and the Timeless Child is someone else? Overall I don't think we can really say if it would work better for the Timeless Child to be someone other than the Doctor until we see what they're actually planning to do with that idea.
You're right about screen presence. Jo Martin as the Doctor was immediately more convincing, even though I didn't agree with her character's part in the plot.
The 12th doctor is going to wake up soon and say to Bill and Nardol, "I just had the worst dream ever, you got turned into a cyberman and I turned into a woman!".
Ah! The Patrick Duffy twist! For those too young to remember, being validated in entire season of Dallas, we're Patrick Duffy's character Bobby was killed. They ended seasoned with him in the shower. I think Capaldi has just enough Moxie to pull that off
I think it's worth mentioning that so many episodes had Chibnall write or co-write, including Praxeus. Not saying for certain, but I think Chibs' contribution may have been what made the episode so lacklustre. Why can't he just let them write anyway
I definitely don't like how involved Chibnall has been with the stories. Obviously, showrunners are involved with every script, but usually, it's minimal enough to not need a co-writing credit. Chibnall has a writing credit for 14/21 of the stories in his era. He just infects them with Chibnall-ness
5:28 this is why I loved the Netflix show Dirk Gently’s holistic detective agency so much, because it was mainly Dirk himself who cracked silly jokes every now and again, but I wouldn’t have been as hooked if everyone was doing the same every 2 minutes. Shows need comic relief when it comes to a show like Doctor who, but when every character is just a comic relief machine then it makes everything less serious and enjoyable.
Dirk Gently's Hollistic Detective Agency is actually a BBC show, but I completely agree with you. Comic relief is important, but must be dine with consideration to the tone, plot and characters. Also, nice to hear people talking about that show.
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I've been watching Dr who since 1975 - as soon as they gave the Doctor a sex change I stopped watching. If they wanted a female role model .. why didn't they just bring back Romana III?
I have also avoided series 12, but I have been reading reviews and such. Clearly I made the correct choice. @ Nautilus1972 There is no problem, at all, with The Doctor regenerating into a woman. Its been known for a long time that Time Lords can change gender when regenerating. Missy was awesome, that worked out very well. Chibnall & Whittaker just failed at it.
I agree with pretty much all of this, especially what you had to say at the end about not wanting the show to get cancelled. A lot of former fans are hoping for the show to get cancelled, but I hate that sentiment. I don't want the show to get cancelled; I want it to get better. Personally, I really disagree with a lot of what you said about "Can You Hear Me?". I absolutely hated this episode by the end of it; in fact, it's the episode that made me give up on the show until we hopefully get a new showrunner/Doctor. First off, that scene at the end with the Doctor and Graham. You say you like it because the Doctor not knowing what to say is relatable to you. Fair enough. I think it's awful because of the way it characterizes the Doctor, or maybe fails to characterize her. My problem isn't so much that she didn't know what to say but that she showed absolutely no compassion for Graham in a very vulnerable moment for him. I feel any other "socially awkward" incarnation of the Doctor would have found something to say in that moment because, in my view, that's the kind of person the Doctor is. For example, I think of the girl dying at the end of "A Good Man Goes to War." The Doctor has no idea who she is, but even so, he finds the words to comfort her in her final moments. That's the Doctor, not whatever the hell 13 did in that scene. Secondly, the writing in that episode was piss-poor. It started out alright, but it ended up being yet another case of Chibnall having no clue how to wrap up an episode. The conflict was solved in a few minutes with little to no effort on the Doctor's part. I mean, for god's sake, the way they built up how dangerous and powerful those two Eternals were, you'd think the Doctor would have to try a bit harder to defeat them, but no, the episode's almost over and we still have to shoehorn in 5-10 minutes on the companions' mental health! Just an absolute mess. Finally, I want to talk about the timeless child. Like I said, I didn't finish the series, but I've seen plenty of coverage of it at this point to have a pretty good understanding of how the timeless child arc went down. I want to say that I actually love certain aspects of this idea. The Timelords kidnapping a child and torturing it for ages to steal the power of regeneration is such an interesting idea. What ruins it is that they made the Doctor the timeless child. Imagine if it wasn't the Doctor; it was just some kid. The Doctor learning the origins of the power of regeneration would create a huge moral dilemma for her. When it comes time for her to regenerate, she has to come to terms with whether or not it's okay for her to do. On the one hand, she feels guilty about using the stolen power after learning its dark origins, but on the other, she's used it for good all these years and could continue to do good for many more if she were to keep using it. That's the dilemma she faces, and it would provide such a desperately needed character arc for this incarnation of the Doctor. As a side note, if they wanted to make the timeless child a familiar character, why not make it the Master? Then it becomes even more personal for the Doctor, but there's still that important separation. It would also make the Master destroying Gallifrey make a lot more sense and could be used to explain the several times we thought the Master was dead for good only to return later. Whatever. That's it. I know it's a lot. None of my friends watch the show, so I guess I needed to finally vent somewhere.
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I like the Doctor not being a Timelord because Timelords have been shown to pretty much exclusively be terrible people so to me it makes more sense that way The interesting thing isn't just that it rewrites the Doctor's history; that means Rassilon lied to everyone about everything for practically an eternity; an entire civilization was built on lies and stolen power while the source of that power was ostracized and eventually sentenced to death for refusing to go along with their evil. It's a good narrative, and even touches on one of the older quasi-canon origins for the Doctor as a progenitor that threw themselves into the Loom and were reincarnated as the Doctor. To me what makes it more interesting than the original backstory is that it really unseats the Doctor from the regular flow of time and mortality; the Doctor has done so many things in New Who (rebooted the universe???) that if all Timelords were actually capable of such feats, if they were truly that powerful and smart, how did the Daleks ever become a real threat? No, their power has always been an illusion, their feats lies and deception meant to hide the truth; their power and dominance came from something they stole from an orphaned child.
So I just watched The Timeless Children a second time and I think The Master is lying by having hacked The Matrix and is giving The Doctor a false existential crisis because The Master never wins and is running out of ideas. I also believe The Master is such a narcissist that if the information he is projecting into The Doctor's mind is absolutely true he couldn't and wouldn't give this information to The Doctor because The Master will never accept that The Doctor is better than he is. The Master suffers from cognitive dissonance and is completely delusional because no matter what he tries whether cheating or in this case lying he never will win and that he is the epitome of persevering insanity. Thoughts?
Hacking the matrix is the easy out for this whole mess, but it is a bit of a copout (still, I'd rather take an eye-rolling copout than what we currently have to deal with!) Your idea makes sense because this is something The Master would do as a last-ditch effort. Rather than trying to kill The Doctor directly he wants to break her and make her snap and seek vengeance, thus bringing her down to his level. You're absolutely right that The Master wouldn't want to tell The Doctor that she's more important than him. Personally, I like to think that if we do need one of the two to be the Timeless Child, it fits The Master better, especially because he's been manipulated and used by the Time Lords his whole life. It also makes more sense as to why he would be angry enough to destroy Gallifrey itself upon finding it out.
@@HarboWholmes Yes! If it's revealed that The Master is the timeless child than it would definitely make more sense and would be the reason he even has that specific name. I also agree that it would be a cop out to an extent but this explanation would bother me the least amount. I also forgot to mention all of the redacted info that he somehow couldn't read/hack or wouldn't show if he already knows that info. The episode did linger on that for a while.
@Scooby McDooby I also have a theory that Ruth might be The Master which is why neither her or The Doctor remember each other and why she appeared in the Matrix but who knows? I won't say it will never happen because we don't know what's going to happen next. I see that you would bet on it not happening but I think a retcon wouldn't happen because of egos and lying in the bed that's made, moreso than a black child.
The issue with most of season 12 is that it breaks literally all the previous lore. For example, in the first series, the doctor shows rose how Humans spread out into space and expand from Earth. But the new series states that Earth dies from global warming. I get the meaning, but it fails. And don't get me started with the Doctor being the original time lord.
I feel like your political take was a bit off. For me personally, yes, Dr Who has always been political. BUT it has always been surface level topics subtly hinted at. Stuff like, "These people have too much power" "Harmony and togetherness" "Save the Earth" blah blah blah. But recently its turned from "We need to fix our home." to "These old white politicians are at fault for our destruction, blame them."
Harbo Wholmes I agree with absolutely everything only except for when graham went to the doctor to explain about his fear of cancer, this is the 13th doctors quote when people come to for help I never refuse...welllll that quote is kinda bullshit since her friend her companion of well over a year comes to her for reassurance of fear of cancer, and the doctor just says I’m socially awkward...I’m about as socially awkward as the next person it’s something I struggle with but if my friend came to me scared of getting cancer again I’d do everything to eliminate that fear and that’s just what I would do...I can only imagine what 10th 11th or 12th would have said or done surely something so much more reassuring and less cold than sorry I’m socially awkward, ugh in my opinion such a down grade in terms of the doctor being someone who apparently never refuses help whatever way that may be !! Btw I would love to see a video of the top scariest dr who episodes like god complex midnight or even the parting of ways that episode was terrifying all those people just waiting for the daleks to kill them cos they didn’t listen to cap jack ugh scary etc and which one is the absolute scariest!!!! Old who new who which ever!!👍☺️
Yeah, I definitely see the other side of the argument when it comes to that scene, I think a lot of it comes from how people read into it. I do disagree with the people who say she should take him to get permanently cured because that would give The Doctor far too much power. The Thirteenth Doctor has no clear character or morals either, which doesn't help that scene. As you said, the previous three Doctors all have clear personalities that would lead to different responses in that scenario, but the Thirteenth Doctor has been so inconsistent with her morals that it's difficult to understand why she reacts in that way. If she had been shown to be far more socially awkward before (such as the Twelfth Doctor with his cue cards) I don't think there'd have been as much backlash
My problem is that I couldn't give a shit about the companions even if I tried. I remember when companions used to be the most interesting characters of their seasons. Yaz, Ryan and Graham are just plain. There's too many of them to focus on. The Doctor Who dynamic should only ever work with two main characters (maybe three if the chemistry is right), but four? That's too many characters to have in such little time, especially if you have other side characters that the episode is based around. Jodie Whitaker could've been an amazing Doctor, unfortunately she was paired with Chibnall's writing. Had Jodie been paired with Moffat or even Davies, she would've excelled in this role. I feel like we need a do-over, either with a new showrunner, new companions, a new Doctor or even all of the above.
10:39 I heard this line spoken by so many people to excuse poor story telling so many times. I know that's not what your saying but I sick on tired of hearing that be said over and over again. A poorly written story is a poorly written story and their No amount of pretty visuals that can make up for it.
I’m fed up with Chibnall’s constant use of threads that go nowhere and redundant characters. After you’ve seen it so many times you have little investment in the series because you can recognise the route the story is taking and the elements that are worth ignoring. In its current incarnation, the only sense of ‘wonder’ I get from Doctor Who is “I wonder why I bothered watching”.
'Can You Hear Me?' has some good themes and good character development. The animation sequence is an interesting way to deliver Chibnall's exposition. It still has the same issues as most of Chibnall's era. The Syria plot point could have been removed to delve deeper into our companions. The female eternal could have been fleshed out better. The resolution was poorly handled and the villains were defeated by the sonic. Spyfall borrows a lot of elements from Army of Ghosts, The Sound of Drums and The Bells of Saint John and those episodes do it a lot better. Fugitive of the Judoon borrows elements from Smith and Jones, Utopia and Name of the Doctor. Orphan 55 borrows elements from The Mysterious Planet. You got it spot on for the Haunting of Villa Diodati. The Lone Cyberman appears halfway through the episode and I'm underwhelmed by it. The doctor decides that it's the lone cyberman 2 seconds after finding out. Jodie's performance at the end is a highlight for her character. It's a bit messy especially after mr lonelyman appears. The finale is poor even if you forget about the reveal. Jodie doesn't have any gravitas which is why she doesn't feel like the doctor. Even the Ruth Doctor has more screen presence.
After the mega-success of Dr Who when it was brought back with Christophers Ecclestone followed by David Tennant, the show has simply started running out of steam. The Tennant years were sensational. Matt Smith was ok - not as good as the previous two imo, but he benefited from the excellent writing and production values that still existed. Peter Capaldi was excellent as the Doctor, but the production/writing were starting to lose their spark. By the time they got to the new Doctor, they have changed so much that a lot of people simply can't relate to it anymore. I was fine with a female doctor and Jodie is a fine actor, but the way the plots have been so painfully patronising has spoiled what should have been a celebration of having her in the role. Add to that the blatantly politically correct group of companions and you have a concoction that for me has made it unwatchable. And don't start me on Bradley Walsh....I love him to bits, but his appearances on Dr Who make him look like a fish out of water. The Peter Davison/Sylvester McCoy/Colin Baker years were when the programme went gradually downhill - it's getting that way again.
He's by no means a bad writer. The man practically saved Torchwood and made it into something worth watching. He also wrote the short story with Rory's dad. Which was amazing. The dude just can't handle full Doctor Who episodes for whatever reason.
Jodie was miscast. That’s it. It doesn’t mean she’s a bad actress, it means that she’s not the right actress for the part. She’s so miscast that an actress (whom I’ve seen be a very good actress) comes across as wooden and bland.
In what way 'miscast'? If you've seen her be a very good actress, then what makes her a poor fit for this particular role? Personally I think the #1 problem is that the show has never clearly defined *who this character is.* Each incarnation of the Doctor has their own individual character and quirks and I'm not convinced the show has ever worked out who Thirteen is. I've noticed that Jodie's acting has been a lot stronger in Season 12 where they've given her some actual *character* to sink her teeth into. My personal Thirteen highlight for Season 12 is probably her "Sometimes this team structure isn't flat at all" speech from "The Haunting of Villa Diodati". And I think a lot of that is because Jodie had a clear picture of what she had to convey. I think she *absolutely* can be a great Doctor. The writing just needs to give her something solid to sink her teeth into.
irrevenant3 I think she’s completely mis cast - just because she’s a good actress it doesn’t mean she’s a good doctor - sure, the character isn’t that well defined but twelves was all over the place but Capaldi could pull it off because he was cast right. Simarly to Peter Davison (IMO) she doesn’t have any gravitas, she doesn’t have anything alien about her and her performance has no essence what’s so ever.
The only smart choice would be to literally make the 11th season onward non canon and start again with a new doctor perhaps one that actually respects the show she is on and it's history
Quick question, at that one point of Skyfall Part Two, why did the Doctor lock the Master put if the elevator? First, it goes against her character, as the Doctor always wanted to redeem the Master. Second, the Master is a murderous SOCIOPATH. He will murder all of the people sent to arrest him, but it seems that the Doctor forgot she wants to save people's lives. It also seems like the writers forgot the Master enjoys killing and hurting people, too. This is really bothering me, so if anyone has an explanation, please tell me.
It's just occurred to me, or do a lot of Chibnall's finale type episodes seem to have the same battlefield setting? Ascension of the Cybermen basically seems the same as The Battle of Ranskoor Av Kolos (not that I remember what that was about anyway) and Resolution a bit and that has made me zone out. This engine is becoming increasingly more difficult to restart after so many stalls.
Well over half the Doctor Who finale episodes have a battlefield setting. That's not particularly a Chibnall thing. Though personally it bugged me that, despite the name, 'The Battle of Ranskoor Av Kolos' *had no battle in it!*
My peev with 13 is that when someone dies, she's just: "oh rip :(" *aight, back to normal haha* The other Doctors usually cared about that stuff, even if it was something completely out of his control, you'd see some regret or anger, sadness maybe? But nothing sticks with 13 and she just carries right on 95% of the time. That would be ok if the other characters actually acknowledged it and had some feelings towards the Doctor's lack of. It could lead to some conflict and more depth in their dynamic, depth on the new doctor, but no we can't have that.
It would've been so much better if the Master was the Timeless Child - it might explain why he escapes all of the time when in impossible scenarios plus it gives a reason for his insanity
Still think it's way too preachy. Old episodes had morals but Chibnall episodes bash you over the head with his personal politics and virtue signaling. Just awful.
@@The_D0C70R i feal the exact same, i hope it turns out she is the 14th doctor, because if she is pre hartnell then there lots of reasons why it wouldnt make sence
I don’t think Jodie can play the doctor at all, but I do think that women can play the doctor, female incarnations like the Ruth doctor proved that, and one other kind of woman I think would work well would be a sweet, more elderly woman (like a female version of capaldi physically) that acts nice and sweet while well knowing she has the ability to destroy anything and everyone when she’s in control, and then having villains that take that control away to challenge her, but overall any actress that knows doctor who and loves it would work better than Jodie, especially since chibnall chose her because she hadn’t seen doctor who and TOLD HER not to watch any to “make her own character” as though she is the first ever doctor of the show, something with 50 years of brilliant baggage and lore should never be treated like this by its CAST, CREW AND SHOWRUNNER!!!!
Can’t agree more with this. Jodie is absolutely not a bad actress. She’s done some great performances. But she’s not the doctor. A lot of people rebuttal this argument by saying “you don’t like strong women”. A statement to which I laugh at, not just because it’s a weak argument but because my favourite companion is Ace mostly because she is the most badass companion in the show. A female doctor is not a bad idea, but the actress must be able to fully show she can BE the Doctor. I.e Olivia Colman, Eva Green, Emily Blunt, Gillian Anderson, hell even Tilda Swinton. But Jodie just doesn’t hit the mark. She is miscast and I think that doctor who needs a strong named Thespian to take over the role. To breath new life into the show once more.
Chinibal is so low level, that instead of having the balls of proper cast a black Doctor for being the actual 13th, he made an dumb choice, mess up the canon, just to say "Hey hey hey, it had being females and black doctors before ok ??" So shallow, so sad.. Just accept that we had 13 (with war) white male's incarnations, and it's fine. Then take your chance to change that and made it right. Chinibal wants so bad to take this "space for all" but honestly he is the worst showrunner in this case, he's vision of diversity is black characters being side characters, empty, overall just awful. Jo Martin was great in the role, and he screw this up putting her in an impossible incarnation of the character just to say that he made a black Doctor, but dude you even made a proper Doctor to claim that. God i hate this man..
Yaz is by far the most dull empty character ever seen on doctor who with absolutely NO character development whatsoever… even Bradley Walsh couldn’t save it and I feel like Josie Whittaker wasn’t confident enough to make the doctor her own
The one moment in the finale that sums it up to me, the one moment that show's Chibnall's complete misunderstanding of the Doctor is when Ko offers to sacrifice himself instead of the Doctor, and she barely bats an eyelid and runs away. When has the Doctor EVER so willingly let someone else sacrifice themselves in his/her place? Because now, since she is so special, the most divine being in the universe, she just has to let someone else die in her place.
It's a bad series, but at least it's better than series nine. I think. That last episode has made me reconsider, although I loved Haunting of Villa Diodati, and would rather the writer of that one be the Showrunner, partly as that was he first episode! Chibnall's first was 42! One of the worst Tennant episodes!
Hello there! This is a long one so I've got some timecodes for you in case you need to watch bit by bit :)
Timecodes:
Part I: Advertising and Expectations (01:10)
Part II: The Companion Conundrum (04:51)
Part III: The Episodes
- Can You Hear Me? (08:57)
- Nikola Tesla's Night of Terror (11:41)
- Spyfall (12:51)
- Fugitive of the Judoon (15:02)
- Praxeus (16:49)
- Orphan 55 (18:08)
- The Haunting of Villa Diodati (19:19)
- Ascension of the Cybermen (21:41)
- The Timeless Children (24:03)
Part IV: Final Thoughts and the Future of Who (26:40)
I agree I wish they didn't jump so much and drop so much exposition personally I think master shouldn't have been in the finale the lone cyberman was cool and the cyber war should have actually been shown
I think the finale would've been better with JUST the Master, as the Cybermen served almost no purpose. And I'm lowkey glad the Cyber War wasn't shown because if it's the same Cyber War as the one in Nightmare in Silver it'd block plans I have if I ever got to write for Doctor Who 😂
@@HarboWholmes ooooh yeah ugh the cybermen have just been Ruined by moffats nightmare in silver if they brought back classic cybermen like the mondasians then it could be better as they feel more human I just hope they don't try making the timeless child impact more as it was dumb how the time lords don't feel magestic or powerful anymore they just feel like fancy scientists I think chibnill needs to stick to broad church
Nah, I love Nightmare in Silver, if only for all the worldbuilding it has, there's so much potential in that. World Enough and Time/Doctor Falls did a great job restoring the body horror, human aspect of the Cybermen, it's just a shame that Chibnall has undone that
@@HarboWholmes the story and episode was good but the cybermen were too powerful like the speed running and head removal but it wasn't a bad episode
Most of this falls on Chibnall. He forgets his characters. The Doctor loses her companions and doesn't notice. Graham and Ryan make A HUGE deal about being family then when they get separated in Ascension of the Cybermen Graham has no anxiety about losing his grandson and is flirting with some rando.
Yeah, there's no consistency in their writing, meaning it creates a huge disconnect because we don't feel attached to any of them at all
Not just Chibnall, Whittaker is his little pet. She only has the role as he demanded it as a clause in his contract for Show Runner. She had seen all of two Tennant episodes before learning of the fact she was cast and when she was cast, she only watched another couple of episodes before deciding she hated it and wasn't going to be the Doctor.
I'm not positive, but I am pretty certain the extra episodes she watched weren't even classic... they were from NuWho.
Both her and Chibnall were boasting back in 2018, when Capaldi was still the Doctor, that they were going to destroy the shows canon so they didn't have to be tied to the old stuff and they could do what they wanted, because if they didn't they simply weren't capable of doing the show.
ALL of this falls on Chibnall, Whittaker and the writing crew. Along with every person who defended this lot and who shouted fans protesting them down as every kind of bigot under the sun, instead of listening to the actual critiques being put forward and why these things were issues.
It fails directly on the shoulders of moderators and admins on Facebook groups who agreed with all the protests and complaints, but in the interests of 'keeping the peace' and trying to not come across as elitists who dictate who is and is not a fan, censored and muted the people pointing out many of the varied points.
As much as he is the ring leader... it's not just him to blame.
@@makrostheblack4791 no, she only watched a few episodes altogether!!! she said so herself
@Adam Campbell : 2 + another couple, out of 851 (or 294 if you count each x-parter as one) = a few altogether.
@@PikaCinema : In Ascension, Graham wanted to go back for their friends, when the Doctor wasn't even around. That's not one of the instances Makros was refering to.
The "Fam" keeps splitting up, the Doctor goes on her own thing and hardly even worries.
The point about Fugitive being, the Doctor going on a run with Ruth and while there's a whole platoon of Judoon chasing them around (her as well as her fam), for a rather long time she doesn't even try to check in with them, they all each get taken by Jack and she's none the wiser - despite them all having these fun neck-comms. She even goes as far as blaming Ryan for having "lost" Graham (and then does as much as not following up on that).
Not a companion, but in Praxeus Aramu straight out died and nobody ever mentioned him again.
So, would you mind pointing out again where Makros or the OP lied or didn't pay attention?
@@HarboWholmes Jazz is just a name in a script who does nothing.
I honestly had to keep reminding myself that I'm watching Doctor Who...
I had to keep reminding myself to watch Doctor Who.
I went from getting so excited and watching Peter's episodes the second they came out to just... not really caring about these ones. Watching them a few days later or something. Watching it just because "it's my favourite show?"
Basically all the Positive Stuff said by Harbo can be
Debunked or Dismissed.
Basically all the good stuff to be said is not really good for Real.
What a sad thing in itself, isnt it?
Wasn't it established that Gallifreyans were incompatible to be "assimilated" by the Cybermen?
ondsinet _ it’s been brought up at least two times in previous seasons, most recently the season 6 episode “Closing Time”.
@@alexshar64 he was making a joke that the writers only read wikipedia
They can ever since Nightmare in Silver... 11 got partially cyber converted. Well, mentally.
@@epsilomtrent932 there are like a million different versions of the Cybermen in various different time periods tho
The Cybemen *were* incapable of assimilating Time Lords. That was before the Master fixed that little problem for them.
@@journey8533 There are a lot of legitimate complaints that can be made about Chibnell. That he doesn't know his canon isn't one of them. He's a fanboy from waaaaaay back, and in this season alone he's referenced everything from the Eternals to the Master's old Tissue Compression Eliminator to the Brain of Morbius.
The biggest problem with Jodie's "Fam" is their reason for being there. They were teleported away by accident and then just stay, and I get he feeling that Jodie's doctor doesn't care one way or another if they stay or not.
The BBC rejected careful thought out pitches from life long fan and multi award winning writer, Joe hill, in favor of Chibnel drivel.
Nothing is less Empowering than all
of this Modern Wokeness.
what the hell
The scary thing is I can’t see who will replace Chibnall when he wants to move on. I feel like they just want to run Doctor Who into the ground and watch it die
Craig Matthews the sad thing is he is (or at least was) a Doctor Who fan. I genuinely think he believes he’s doing a good job but his run is diabolically bad. His line of work relies on good critical reception and good ratings so what is there to gain in destroying the Doctor Who series. The only thing to do as fans is stop watching a d let the BBC know you’re not watching because of what he’s doing to the show not that you’re tired if watching it. Keeping watching just keeps the ratings up so why would they change anything, they think the fans are happy.
The weird thing is that Season 12 is a significantly stronger season than Season 11. Stories like 'Spyfall', 'Fugitive of the Judoon', 'The Haunting of Villa Diodati' and 'Can you hear me?' were genuinely entertaining, twisty Who stories - and yet the BBC did almost zero promotion for them.
Chibnall has some serious flaws as a writer, but he seems to have taken on board a lot of the criticisms of Season 11. He brought back classic villains, he got rid of that stupid 'no two-parters' rule ('It takes you away' would've been amazing as a two-parter), the stories are more tightly-plotted, etc. He still has a massive problem with telling rather than showing. If he can work on that next season it would fix around 80% of the outstanding issues IMO.
irrevenant3 the series may have been stronger but the ratings were down. I stopped watching in series 11 (having watched the show consistently since Pertwee’s debut) . 2 of my workmates families dropped it after seeing Spyfall part 1. The (alleged) improvements aren’t working. The same criticisms of season 11 are being made for series 12.
And this man is no newcomer to writing TV series, he’s hardly refining his style, this is as good as he gets.
@@CraigTulloch I strongly suspect the ratings are so far down because so many people were burned by series 11 and haven't come back. (Also, I understand the BBC didn't do much to promote the show this time around?). Based on the ratings, twice as many people liked 'Arachnids in the UK' as liked 'Fugitive of the Judoon' or 'The Haunting of Villa Diodati'. I find that very hard to believe
Prior to Season 12 I would have agreed with you about Chibnall - the mistakes he was making seemed to be the same ones as marred his older stuff like 'The Power of Three' and I had little hope of him suddenly getting better. But then he did! I don't know what happened to turn him around but the Season 12 episodes were much more polished and more tightly written than Season 11. And the season felt better overall. Even the worst episode of the season, 'Orphan 55' was better written than 2 or 3 episodes from Season 11, including the season finale.
irrevenant3 You’ve inadvertently answered your own question. Many people were burned by season 11 so much so that there is no reason for them to return when the show still has the same problems ie Chibnall as showrunner and writer, a charisma free performance from Whittaker in the titular role and 3 poorly written companions. Season 11 was so poor I actually started to hate the show. I won’t watch it until Chibnall and Whitaker are gone. I haven’t seen series 12 but Ive seen several reviews (I’m still a fan after all) and they’ve all said something similar that it improved slightly but kept making the same mistakes as in season 11. I’m amazed people are still watching the show. To me Chibnall has destroyed the show.
To write the now chosen one Doctor Who you need a chosen one writer: Neil Gaiman, who knows very well this franchise, has a lot of experience in sci-fi and fantasy, and likes a lot to write female characters.
Unfortunately, I think Gaiman has been burned by his experience with Nightmare in Silver. I also think I saw something where he said he doesn't want to be a showrunner for any show
@@HarboWholmes : I knew but at least I tried to have the rest of the year living a happy lie...
@@HarboWholmes ok, someone needs to resurrect Terry Pratchett then.
Romel Muñoz Nial Gamein could not write his way out of a paper bag in terms of TV , he should stick to books , his mind is too vast for silly Sci fi that he can’t write BUT as a show runner and an ideas man he may have been good
I feel that Gaiman wrote himself into a corner with the Cybermen. How can a monster be overcome when it's constantly upgrading ?
The part about the political messages on DW could be resumed like this :
No companion ever ( at least I think so) has seen a dalek and went " oh looks, they look like nazis", but now the messages are just like oh look he's gay, oh look racism is bad
“...they’re still just blank slates; devoid of character...”
In the case of two of them, I’d agree. But, Graham did see quite a lot of character development in season 11 and that’s been carried forward into season 12. As painful as it was to watch season 11, because of his bereavement, Walsh’s character did have more depth and I could identify with him more; of course, being bereaved 8 months prior (my wife) had something to do with it, as I saw a lot of what I was going through in Graham’s actions.
Great video, this season really sucked. Really bad acting, really bad stories, really bad dialogue...it was just........really bad.
Add to this the pointless retcon and the toxic fans.....so I’m out. I’ve been a fan since I first saw remembrance of the daleks in 1988. But thanks to chibnall and whittaker I’m done with this show.
Just out of curiosity, what's your opinion on the Cartmel Masterplan?
Spot on, for much of this! The Doctor sounded like she was brushing off Graham, I think that was a problem. She didn't give trite, surface reassurances, but she also acted like she couldn't give a toss.The only reason is that she still seems like she's still in shock after losing Bill & Clara. Jodie has moments as the Doctor, & other moments as the actor simply following her cues & making her marks to play the Doctor.
I think it comes down to Jodi as an actress. She is a good actress, but I don't believe has the true range to make the Doctor work in all situations. I could easily imagine Capaldi making that scene work, and in their own unique way, Eccleston, Tennant and Smith. I hate to even think this, but is it our reaction to the Doctor being female and how that reads in certain scenes? Is the character of the Doctor so fundamentally male in the public consciousness that the gender swap doesn't work on a basic level? I don't know, but I've not enjoyed any of S11 or 12
The lone cyberman had the possible to be one of the best Villains. If he was Brendan, it would have worked out much better and it would have linked toward the final episode much better.
The absolutely only thing that will save the show from The Timeless Child is to have it completely erased, possibly as some kind of overall plot by the Master....
That the Hartnell doctor isn't the first is complete balls....
For me, the best thing that sums up the lack of care given to companion development is the fact that Ryan lives with Dyspraxia. They made a big deal about it for the first five minutes and then was promptly forgotten.
As for the end of series 12; I'm vainly hoping that it turns out The Master got his info wrong and *he* is the timeless child, after all. It would give The Doctor her mystery back. It would be poetic irony that after The Master yearning for his own empire all this time it turns out he actually did have the most powerful one in the universe all along but, in ignorance and anger, destroyed it - that'd mess with his mojo!
It would also explain how the heck he continuously comes back from the point of no return
The answer to the question of what went wrong doesn't need a 33 min video. It can be broken down to the following statement....
Chris Chibnall and the BBC refused to listen to the fans.
You know the fanbase is a big and diverse place, with all sorts of different opinions and ideas of what they want from the show. But yes, by all means, generalise them all
I would have preferred it if Thomas Ederson and Nikola Tesla were companions. Honestly, it would have worked better.
Well, they were both played by excellent actors, so that helps :)
As soon as I saw the high budget look of series 11 in the trailers I had a sinking feeling that they'd use that to disguise dogshit writing.
Has no one noticed that the marketing images / photos all tend to make The Doctor look like a damn wizard with a magic wand? Its the first thing I thought when I saw the series 11 cover image before I ever saw an episode. It made me concerned, like the new team really didn't understand what Doctor Who was. Sadly that turned out to be true.
Marketed at the Harry Potter fanbase?
Everything said was 100% true, but I don’t think enough time was spent on the music aspect
I think Segun's stuff is brilliant. Prefer his Dalek and Master theme to Murray's.
The Timeless cild arc and the destruction of Gallifrey...why?
First off, I hated what they did to Gallifrey. We caught glimpses in Series 4 but did not get a full picture until The Day of the Doctor. Then we don’t catch another glimpse until Hell Bent. As a fan of old and new Who I was finally happy to see that revisited but then they’re gone again. Not just that but, unless it’s retconned, Gallifrey is no more. Hell, they even made it impossible to bring The Time Lords back as they were cyber-converted (and then got blown up for good measure so you know that they’re truly gone). I don’t know who thought that was a good idea. Perhaps they wanted to revert back to before the 50th anniversary but as a result it robs that special because it was saved to be destroyed. Why not leave Gallifrey out of the stories then?
The Timeless Child concept, again, why? I have so many problems with it messing up the canon universe but why add that lore on to The Doctor. You took the idea of “A Man Who Stole a Box and Ran Away” to The Doctor is not Gallifreyan and is the unspoken Genesis of all Time Lords. Effectively The Doctor is the God of Gallifrey. THIS WAS NOT NECESSARY. If I were to guess why Chibnall went this route I would gather that he wanted to do something grandeur like his predecessors, give the Master a new reason to hate The Doctor, and be one to give further backstory to The Doctor. Unfortunately this failed monumentally in every aspect, pissed off it’s fanbase, and as of writing this we’re two companions down and there are rumors that Jodie is bowing out after this next series. If she did to spend more time with her family I have a gut feeling that it’s because she realizes that her iteration is not the Doctor. Not that a female can’t play the character(I actually like Jodie for the spunk she brings) but because the writers do not know HOW to write or work with this Doctor.
As a massive RTD-era fanboy, and as the most stubborn and angry Moffat hater since 2011, every ounce of me wanted to like the Whittaker era, and wanted to be able to use it as evidence that the Moffat era was uniquely bad in some way.
I was holding judgement on this entire series until the finale, to see what the big character and story moments would end up being. Sadly, I can now safely say, Chibnall has proven that he's so much worse than Moffat that it's not even close. He makes Moffat's stories look sensible and self-contained, and Moffat's characters look well written and developed, by comparison.
That was possibly the biggest mess of a story arc I've ever seen.
I'm also a huge RTD-era fanboy, but I loved the Moffat era too, tbh. It's annoying because Chibnall claimed that Series 12 would be more like the RTD-era, but it was all just recycled from it. Chibnall has done absolutely nothing worthwhile with the golden goose he was given, instead, he just used the opportunity to forcefully canonise his childhood fanfiction about the Cartmel Masterplan and Brain of Morbius.
@@HarboWholmes the RTD era was about characters first and foremost. The Chibnall era has no characters. I thought the same about the Moffat era, but even fuckin Clara was more of a character than the current companions.
Oi, watch it, Clara is my favourite NuWho companion 😉 But I wholeheartedly agree that the Chibnall era hs no characters, everyone is just a blank, lifeless mannequin, basically
@@HarboWholmes Clara?? REALLY?? I'm disappointed in you mate!!! 😂
Martha and Donna all the way! (Closely followed by Rose, Wilfred and Jack)
Sorry, I just love the Twelve/Clara partnership! 😂 Martha is second and then Donna, then Rose (I don't really count Wilf and Jack as 'main' companions, they were occasional companions a la Mickey and River Song)
Can we all just appreciate how good the show looks tho like damn
I know series 11 has its haters but I'd rather have another series 11 than 12. 12 has significant tone problems and feels like a weird torchwood series. I didn't mind the soundtrack or VFX. That was all I liked
I think the idea of the timeless child as a character is interesting, but making The Doctor that child was preposterously ill considered.
Keep chris chibnall away from doctor who is all i am saying .The timeless child arc is basically his fan fiction that he has shoehorned into the show. I also Like Whittiker its just a shame she has been give such a flat character with no quirks
End of series 11 character development:
Yaz: policewoman. Just cause
Ryan: has dyspraxia
Graham: lost his wife
End of series 12 character development:
Yaz: a policewoman because she was inspired by another policewoman
Ryan: has dyspraxia and a friend who has problems
Graham: lost his wife and is scared of cancer
K then
😂 that is so on point
Alm Tre i don’t even remember their names
James Poole their names are in his comment so how can’t you remember them?
ApexArmy youre just going around and nitpicking comments because you actually liked this series, aren’t you bud? i am legitimately curious as to why you liked it.
I wouldn’t call it nitpicking to point out that someone’s comment was complete bullshit
Now, correct me if I’m wrong, but the timeless children shouldn’t even exist. We have seen, several times, that the doctor was a child, and had a home on gallifrey. In Listen, we see Clara grab the Doctor’s ankle in the middle of the night, causing the whole episode to begin with. In Hell Bent, the Doctor escapes the confessional and awakens on gallifrey, next to the same home. The Doctor is not a being from another dimension, no. The Doctor was born on Gallifrey, like the rest of the time lords, and left out of boredom. The Doctor did not “escape” being tortured, as the Doctor remembers Gallifrey quite fondly. The Doctor remembers being a child. The Doctor went to school. Chibnall’s excuse for a finale should not be considered canon. It should not even exist. We know how Gallifrey ended, with the Last Great Time War. It was not “burned down” by the master, creating nonexistent conflict. Gallifrey is within the 3D painting, sealed away. This is why, to my knowledge, that the Timeless Children is a bunch of malarkey, and shouldn’t even exist to begin with.
Yeah, that whole thing with "Listen" was the immovable object with the story. You really can't place the idea of the Doctor being an immortal being when we saw their childhood.
Well... not that i'm excusing this or trying to defend it but, what I **think** they're going to try to do is say that the Doctor has had their memory erased. You see this with the Ruth Doctor somehow being part of the past but the Doctor not remembering her and then there were those strange asides to the small Irish(?) town where there was a man who had strange regenerative abilities (like the Doctor has now been revealed to have, more than normal) then at the end of his life, they do --something-- to him and thank him for his service and wasn't there something with a timepiece? There was also a scene with like a secret Time Lord secret agency or something. I don't remember clearly, it all sucks and is dumb. Anyway, to bring this all back together, there is a Time Lord Agency which the Doctor was recruited into to do various deeds which are probably very bad and wrong and after leaving said agency for whatever reason, their memory was wiped and that's why we don't know about the Ruth Doctor and also why there are now 15 Doctors and counting because we all needed to have that explained to us. So, after that, the Doctor had their memory wiped and was forcefully regenerated? into a child? and just tossed into some neighborhood to live as normal? I don't know. I sort of like the idea that it's just a lie told by the Master and they can just trash it because it's really dumb. Chibnall is like a really bad Hollywood producer who just sees something he thinks is cool and wants to jam it into their own thing. Like, "having the secret War Doctor was such a cool idea, remember when that happened? wasn't that so cool? Yeah, let's do it again! Secret Doctor!"
@Kaagh178 like I said, I wasn't defending it. And, what is the shadow proclamation? Is that like, a real thing with backstory or something they threw in and kept referencing? At least they could have used that somehow maybe but it seems like Chibnall has no sense of the history of the show. Disappointing is really the best description of it.
+1
Just retcon the whole Timeless Child nonsense. It's really terrible.
What I find utterly incredible and obhorrent, is that Chibnall had the cheek to steal most of the Series 12 storylines from previous Doctor Who episodes and then turned the stories into garbage?!
The big on being that this is the third time that the Master has used the Cybermen in a finale to his own devices and the second time they've raised the dead with them.
I always think of Can you hear me? being the same as the Nightmare Man but without much of a personal stake.
Xenon don't forget the shiity racnos rip off
I agree, to me season 12 felt like a rip off of series 3!
@@Jackgames-vg7cw Played by Rani.
I feel like he just doesn't get doctor who. This is the first review i've seen actually making good points. I think someone can write a good story but if the characters suck and you don't actually care about them you won't care about the plot either and it just doens't work
Yeah most of the criticisms are “hurr durr I don’t like Woman”
@@saintsea-hat7891 That sounds like projection to me. People criticise the show for lots of reasons, nobody's upset just because she's a girl.
@@peacemaster8117 Pretty sure some people are upset because she's a girl. A lot of the criticisms are some variant of "Thirteen hasn't had any Doctor moments" (ie. powerful dramatic speeches). Which pretty much boil down to "The Doctor isn't as masculine as she used to be". Few people would overtly say they have a problem with the Doctor being a woman (though a few have). Quite a few people seem to object to the Doctor being less forceful and brash (ie. more feminine) than she used to be.
@@irrevenant3 You're just taking valid criticisms and then projecting sexism onto them. That's about you, not the critics.
@@peacemaster8117 How are the criticisms that I cited valid? Why does the Doctor have to be forceful and confronting rather than emotionally sensitive and collaborative in order to feel like a legitimate Doctor? How is her performance not appropriate for the first female incarnation of a character who goes through regular massive personality changes?
If the criticisms are valid then sure, maybe I'm just projecting. *Are* they? Why?
Would be easier to ask ‘what went right?’ That would be less time consuming.
Problembeing nothing.
True lol
@@charlesman8722 Spyfall was great, but I failed to appreciate the rest (still ok) . Also the timeless children is the worst thing that happened to doctor who ever.
I've given it 3 months, haven't come up with anything yet.
Good question.
The Doctor didn’t hang off a cliff with an umbrella for no reason , the Moon wasn’t declared an egg, the Mary Shelley episode was watchable, and not all of the episodes were set on Earth.
Otherwise...
I don’t understand the love for Spyfall.
I just hope they don't give up on a female Doctor now and blame the failure on sexism. I'd love a female Doctor with great character development, with an actress who's a fan of the show and cares about the character and a director who knows what the show is about. I could just not watch, but I've come to care so much about the show and about the character that it hurts to see it become this shadow of what it used to be. I want to look forward to episodes again, to feel exited when watching them.
I always loved how easy to compare the Sci-Fi-Worlds in Science Fiction are.
The Cyber-Collectives are a great example/measurement-tool for that!
Stargate has one, Star Trek has one, Doctor Who has one.
You can easily see how inferior Doctor Who to Star Trek and Star Trek to Stargate is. Alone from the Effiency of those beings that basically are
walking Effiency - or at least they should be.
Cyberman and Dalek are actually on RUclips on Lists like "Top 10 Alien Races that are too Dumb to Exist!"
And yeah, that summs it up very well.
Stargates Cosmos is just more realistic and the most realistic. Star Trek is second-place.
And Doctor Who? It's just so filled with Plot Holes and Dumb Alienc Races and Nonsense that it could never ever exist.
Makes it all the more laughable in what state those 3 Franchises are. Stargate is just sleeping while the other 2 (3 if you count Star Wars)
Self-Destruct in an amazing FIREWORK!
Blamed the failure on sexism.... ur a fucking idiot
@@slevinchannel7589 Sir I don't think you understand why people watch Doctor Who. It may be filled with plot holes and stupidity but it's fun. Why do you think it lasted so long if it was so bad?
@@user-jn1wm3tb8v I understood that exactly, buddy. Plot Holes but still fun. The problem is, the fans are widely wrong here.
Just like people enjoey Moffats other show, Sherlock, which was objectively trash.
I dont say that goes for all of Doctor Who, i get it, it's not to think too much about but to have fun - that's more or less fine. But in the bigger picture, it's actually not fine.
@@slevinchannel7589 I still think Amanda Tapping would make a great Doctor.
Imo,we should have had another season with Bill.Even though her character arc was wrapped up perfectly,i think that Bill and 13th would have had better chemistry together
Personally I didn't really care much for Bill, but I definitely prefer her to the current companions. It would definitely be interesting to see how the chemistry between her and The Doctor would have changed with the regeneration
Bill was the worst companion, except for maybe Clara, but even Clara had some good bits before being the impossible girl.
Capaldi Clara was definately better than smith Clara, though I still think Moffat missed an opportunity with Victorian Clara being the Clara we got, that would have been much cooler
@@tomgamble3875 Nope
I wasn't a big fan of Bill at the time but going back and watching series 10 now, I think she's great. She showed great emotional range and had great chemistry with Capaldi. I think that her storyline wrapped up perfectly and imo I don't know if the dynamic would work between 13 and Bill. I think it would've been great to see them together and see how Bill reacts to regeneration, but I think that the doctor would have tried to distance themself from Bill after regeneration. Idk though. I just think that there is such a stark contrast between 12 and 13 that I'm honestly not sure how Bill and 13's dynamic would be like. I'd also be a little odd about how Chibnall would write Bill. Still think it would be interesting to see though x
I see too much Broadchurch influence in the Chibnall era so far with it's dark, brooding drama and slow burn mysteries. Doctor Who needs to be fun with interesting stories and adventures which is completely missing because I feel like it's being directed as more of a drama than anything else hence the drawn out character development or lack there of for mysterious reasons. Besides Broadchurch I am also feeling LOST vibes where the mystery is great but the answers are bad, bad, bad.
This video is the best one I have seen for criticism of Season 12. I can tell you are a fan who is disappointed like me and not jumping to hatred or despise. I also completely agree with you about the true message of Doctor Who and how The Timeless Children dropped the ball on that. Here is to Doctor Who recovering in the near future.... I hope. Thanks for the video.
Thank you, I'm glad you enjoyed the video. Yeah, I found myself each week WANTING to enjoy each episode, but almost all of the time I found myself bored and/or disappointed, it just made me quite sad that I couldn't enjoy Doctor Who. I think I'm pretty much done with the Chibnall era but I know Doctor Who can get better and I'll definitely give the next showrunner a chance! And I agree about the drama thing. The show never seems to portray travelling with the Thirteenth Doctor as fun, if anything, it makes it look awful. Before, travelling with The Doctor seemed dangerous, but FUN. It was an exciting adventure, but now...why would you want to go with her? If that was the point, some intentional choice for narrative purposes, it would be a good direction, but it's clearly not.
I think it says a lot about Chibnall that Broadchurch was about a guy who fantasized about bumming boys and then murdering him. The BBC is satanic.
Chibnall seems to be a one trick pony. Broadchurch was okay, but it was just filler TV really. You watch it and its okay, but then you never really think about it or want to watch it again. Doctor Who requires much more talent.
@Kaulinis That's the truth. The only way this gets fixed is to get rid of Chibnall and bring in someone with real talent and skill for writing and running a sci-fi series. Then some of Chibnall's antics will need to be retconned, and the longer he sticks around the more will need to get reconned. If he sticks around much longer it may prove incredibly difficult if not impossible. Chibnall is so much of a self-righteous, pompass ass that I could see him writing stores in the next series to dig in and entrench the ridiculous Timeless Children narrative. Depending on how much damage he does he may just permanently kill Doctor Who as a franchise. Which I really hope does not happen.
Harbo Wholmes do you plan to keep watching the show? I’ve stopped since the end of Season 11. It’s really sad as I’ve been a fan since Pertwee’s debut and only stopped once before (After McCoy’s first season). This feels like the same slow demise that came about at that time. Now with the Covid shutdown there’ll be an even longer wait for Chibnall to produce more steaming mediocrity. What a sad state for a once great show to end up in.
I agree with this all so much. The only thing I will say counter to this is that I would like to see Jodi in a a season without Chibnall. There are time that I see a Doctor in her. So the potential is there. That said, I've hated most of the Doctors when they are new because I loved the previous one so much and was sad to see them go, however, by they time they, themselves are leaving I love them and hate their replacement. But with Jodi, I do not hate her, but I wouldn't morn her like I did Tennent, Smith, or Capaldi. Same with the companions. If any of the companions died I would be a bit sad. But would I cry over them like Clara, or Rose? Would I feel the sorrow I felt for Donna or Bill? No, I wouldn't. I like them all, but two episodes after their death I wouldn't think of them again. I have loved Doctor Who because it's a show that can make you laugh, feel absolute terror, and make you tear up all in the span of an hour. But other than the occasional chuckle I feel none of the same emotions this show has brought for numerous series. So with all that in mind I think that Chibnall and "His" Doctor Who are the problem. Maybe the cast is absolutely amazing and it could have been so much worse. Give them all a Chibnall free series to see what they can do. They at least deserve the shot to make me love them.
Yeah, I agree that there is potential with Jodie, even though I only see The Doctor in her very rarely. I think Chibnall would struggle with any Doctor of his own creation. Tennant and Smith were already established as The Doctor and also incredible actors in the role, so they were able to carry Chibnall stories, but now that Chibnall has complete control, the cast suffers. I really do want a chance to care about Jodie and her companions, but I think it's too late, given the news that Ryan and Graham are leaving in the special.
I can understand that for sure. I loved several of the Chibnall written episodes prior to him being the show runner. I do agree that possible that Smith and Tennant just carried an average story to great lengths. I was very saddened to hear about Graham and ryan’s departure from the show after the special. Yaz is easily the least developed and my least favorite of the current companions.
I think 42 and Power of Three were the only good Chibnall episodes before he took over, but 42 suffers from being too visually similar to Impossible Planet/Satan Pit and Power of Three has that trademark Chibnall rushed ending.
I'm also sad Graham and Ryan are leaving, but mainly because of Graham, he's easily the best of the three companions and I'd rather have him stay on and the other two leave, since he has interesting chemistry with The Doctor that could be explored further. Like I say in the video, having staggered introductions to the companions would have solved a lot of the problems and given us more time to form relationships with each. It's a shame they rushed into such a crowded cast. Hopefully Yaz can benefit from being the sole companion but I can't imagine she'd be the only one, I can see them having another companion as well
@@HarboWholmes Honestly I think Chibnall needs to spend some time sitting down and seriously asking himself two questions:
1. What exactly is this new Doctor like as a person?
2. How do I convey that on screen (preferably without overreliance on exposition)?
Season 12 improved a little in this regard. It's now clearer that Thirteen is a DIY Doctor more inclined to *build* solutions and who geeks out over people like Tesla. But we need more. We had a better feel for who Nine is as a character by the end of his far-too-short run than we do for Thirteen after two seasons. :(
I only just learned upon reading this comment thatGraham and Ryan are leaving. Someone already said it but Graham was just the best companion for the doctor. I think if he had been the only companion then it would have been pretty great. The doctor arrives in the world after regenerating, meets Graham and his wife, then they get involved in trying to save a man’s life resulting in Grace(?)’s death. With no more attachments, Graham asks to go with the doctor to see the universe in an effort to avoid the loss of his wife. Thereby have the end of the series involve him having to deal with that loss rather than the one episode that has him in the fantasy world with her. This could have been a great character moving point but it was squandered by spending time on a “diverse” cast. Rather than making it an interesting cast.
Another reason why the companions in series 12 feel underdeveloped is because the Doctor keeps getting separated from them, and there are too many characters of the day.
Yeah, I kept wanting to talk about that more but I thought the video would be too long for me to have ready for this week aha. In almost every episode there are AT LEAST two side characters that get a lot of screentime and basically become companions for the week, despite there already being three. Just look at Tesla's Night of Terror, Can You Hear Me? and Praxeus. There are just too many people all at once
@@HarboWholmes Don't forget the historical women in Spyfall.
@@HarboWholmes Like, earlier seasons of New Who usually only focused on the Doctor, the companion(s), and the villain(s). "Partners in Crime" had three main players: the Doctor, Donna, and Mrs. Foster. "The Shakespeare Code" had the Doctor, Martha, Shakespeare, and the carrionites. "Boom Town" had the Doctor, Rose, Mickey, Jack, and Blon. Imagine how terrible series 4 would be if every episode was like "Midnight".
Yeah. Boom Town is a great three-companion episodes because there are only two other characters that have a lot of screen time (Doctor and Margaret.) The more characters you add, the less time each gets to do anything, and that's why these companions in the Chibnall era have nothing to do. I mean, Praxeus literally has The Doctor, three companions, three not-companions, a villain and a side character on top of that! That's far too many. The only time Doctor Who has worked as an ensemble with a big cast is Stolen Earth/Journey's End, because those were all returning characters from the Doctor Who universe we had had hours to get to know
@@HarboWholmes I think "Can You Here Me?" was the worst offender. The Syrian woman is in about three scenes, and they don't use her background to the story's advantage, because she has the same experience with nightmares as the companions' friends.
They paid lip-service to mental health whilst simultaneously gaslighting highly depressed and anxious fans as well as mocking Graham’s cancer. I’m sorry, but this was handled appallingly.
@Problembeing
Since you said it was "handled appallingly," I'm guessing the problem was execution not the fact that the Doctor reacted the way she did.
The way I've heard that scene described by Bolwstrek, and I think Nerdrotic it seems like the Doctor was more apathetic to Graham's anxiety, rather than wanting to help but didn't know what to say that moment to comfort him. Another problem is this was later in the series where the Doctor should've been established as her age sagely wisdom surfaces every now and then, and this would've been a good moment to showcase that, but they opted not to.
DemonicRemption it was handled appallingly at every level. First, the actor should know the character, she had plenty of opportunity to study The Doctor, she opted not to. The fact no one told her that given that this is the number one job on TV and the fans are sticklers for detail, they let her get away with ‘blank slating’ The Doctor, which leads me to Chibnall, the one who first told her to just ‘read the script’. He has allowed this actor to play this role for 2 seasons with seemingly nothing in the way of notes to make her tone things down and has written her as fairly two-dimensional, either flapping her mouth off in exposition at rapid speed, or in lecture mode of a scornful primary schoolteacher. There’s no depth and apparently only two settings. Chibnall has failed to bring out what every other show runner and their new Doctor has managed to do within their first one or two episodes.
Apart from those two things, of course the director must have played their part in allowing this Sven to be played out with the cold stage direction, but as the star of the show, why didn’t Whittaker protest? Tom Baker certainly would have! because she’s there to read the script, she hasn’t studied the character. The writers played this scene for a giggle, and it was played that way. No two ways about it. The fact this was allowed to happen after all the lip-service to mental health, mot one person from actor, producer to director to editor said ‘this is a bad idea?’ - and, finally, for the BBC to absolutely double-down on this with their usual dismissive and patronising response to the criticism was nothing but sheer hubris and gaslighting.
I suffer from depression and anxiety and found that episode to be ignorant and insulting. "Vincent and the Doctor" addressed depression in the right way while Chibnall made it sound like depression is nothing more than a temporary case of the blues. It's not. And as someone who tends to be socially awkward, I can tell you that if a friend of mine came to me and said they were concerned about their cancer (or anything, for that matter), I would show a lot more compassion that the fake Doctor did. I really think this episode did more harm than good. And if was boring.
John D I sympathise with you completely. I suffer the black dog too, and have seen two friends die from cancer, and for that line to be delivered for laughs was a tasteless error of judgment that should have seen the lot of them sacked the very next day alone. Not satisfied with doing that, they doubled-down; tripled-down; quadrupled-down and went on to obliterate canon for nothing more than more lip-service and racialist tokenism. They should be ashamed! They have caused no end of damage to this show, fragmented the fandom, and to top it off made people who rely on this show to see them through the dark days feel utterly shattered and broken. It’s unforgivable!
@@Problembeing They've trivialized depression and anxiety, shown a cold disregard for people with cancer and destroyed a show I've been a fan of for over 40 years...a show that I have relied on as an escape when things got really dark for me. And yes, they've totally divided the fanbase of a show that people have loved for decades just so Chibnall and Whittaker can promote their own views. Rather than totally destroy canon, why can't Chibnall move the show forward? I mean, I know he has no original ideas and clearly doesn't understand the show, but to undo everything we've known about the show just because he wanted to double-down on diversity is maddening. Rather than change Doctor Who, just create your own show with it's own canon.
If I was gonna do a female Doctor, I would’ve gone with someone like Helena Bomham Carter, Michelle Gomez, or the woman that played Idris. They remind me of like Troughton, or McCoy, or even Matt Smith, acting silly, but then they become scary when provoked.
tgiacin435 other woman who would also be good is Ruth Wilson , Eve Myles and Nicola (last tango) and your right Helen binam crater and idris (Surrane Jones btw) would also be good female Doctor , Jodie comes around like a dumb blonde stereotype
i feel like jodie flips brilliantly between acting silly and serious. she also feels like a more chaotic emily blent lmao
I was hoping it would be Suranne Jones, she would have made an incredible Doctor and had the presence to be overwhelming to her enemies. I loved her in the Matt Smith episode, The Doctors Wife.
Theresa Swan Idris right?
Theresa Swan yeah, she reminds me so much of Helena Carter, definitely the type that can play the Doctor, and treat the sex change as another part of the regeneration he/she will just have to deal with, but also have fun with it. Hell I’d love to see the interaction between her River and/or the Master
Season 11 was chibnall doing his own version of doctor who and it failed, so for season 12 he basically just filled the series with stuff we've seen before, a secret doctor, a master reveal, Cybermen, destroyed galifrey, a secret to be revealed etc, and it still didn't work in my opinion. Chibnall didn't impress me with his stories before he became show runner and he's proven not to be impressive now
Yeah, I've never really liked Chibnall's contributions to Doctor Who even before he became showrunner, so I was dreading his era from the start. If Series 11 wasn't so bad, maybe Series 12 would have been better, but Chibnall is definitely the wrong choice to be showrunner
@@HarboWholmes agreed, Jaime mathison who wrote mummy on the Orient express and flatine should have been the next show runner those two episodes alone are better than all of chibbnals stories put together
Jamie Mathieson's episodes were great, but I'm not sure about showrunner, I don't really know enough about his other writing credits to know if he has experience in a showrunning role. I'd definitely love him to write more episodes, though. I think one of the biggest issues with the Chibnall era is that apart from Chibbers himself, we haven't had any previous writers return
@@HarboWholmes very true, I think big finish should be given the chance to do their own live series of doctor who, they've certainty proven themselves to have amazing writers and original ideas the current product desperately needs
Four words. Paul McGann mini-series. That's all
Whats the point in having a time machine if they are just going to travel to a time where people explain events that happen in the past
Or spend most of the time in present day.
@@xenon8117 Season 12 didn't, though. Of the 10 episodes in Season 12, only three of them were set primarily in present day ('Spyfall Part 1', 'Fugitive of the Judoon', and 'Praxeus'). Two ('Spyfall Part 2' and 'Can you hear me?') spent around half the episode in present day but also spent a fair amount of time bouncing around through time and/or visiting alien worlds/dimensions. Five of them ('Orphan 55', 'Nikola Tesla's Night of Terror', 'The Haunting of Villa Diodati', 'Ascension of the Cybermen' and 'The Timeless Children') spent the entire episode in other time periods.
That would be a legitimate complaint about seasons 9 or 10, but 11 and 12 have been a lot more varied.
I loved that you talked about the delivery of the political messages. They were really hamfisted.
yeah, they feel hamfisted even if you agree with them.
You can’t just make a whole episode about some disability and then give the episode a weak story, the story needs to be impactful and doesn’t need to shove the message right into your face
The thing is though, *most* of the execution is hamfisted, not just the political messaging ("Oh by the way Yaz, you're the greatest person ever. Just thought I'd mention that, k thx bai").
The more I think about it, the more I think Chibnall's tendency to tell rather than show is *the* major problem. He got a little bit better about it this season and if he can get *much* better at it next season I think that'll resolve about 80% of the show's issues.
I always loved how easy to compare the Sci-Fi-Worlds in Science Fiction are.
The Cyber-Collectives are a great example/measurement-tool for that!
Stargate has one, Star Trek has one, Doctor Who has one.
You can easily see how inferior Doctor Who to Star Trek and Star Trek to Stargate is. Alone from the Effiency of those beings that basically are
walking Effiency - or at least they should be.
Cyberman and Dalek are actually on RUclips on Lists like "Top 10 Alien Races that are too Dumb to Exist!"
And yeah, that summs it up very well.
Stargates Cosmos is just more realistic and the most realistic. Star Trek is second-place.
And Doctor Who? It's just so filled with Plot Holes and Dumb Alienc Races and Nonsense that it could never ever exist.
Makes it all the more laughable in what state those 3 Franchises are. Stargate is just sleeping while the other 2 (3 if you count Star Wars)
Self-Destruct in an amazing FIREWORK!
@@slevinchannel7589 "Inferior" depends what you're looking for. Stargate SG-1 was arguably more realistic (although the Goa'uld suffer from most of the same "too stupid to live" complaints that can be made about the Cybermen and the Tau'ri repeatedly punch at ludicrously levels above their weight).
That said, youvre making a lot of assumptions about how a cyber-collective should work. Any network is going to be constrained by its core functions. The replicators were created to replicate and seem to have complete neural freedom to explore and innovate beyond that core function. Cybermen are fundamentally human beings with their emotions removed and humans are not fundamentally designed to function as a hive race. In many ways cyber-conversion is a downgrade since emotions are at the root of a lot of human motivation and ingenuity. They were originally created as a desperation move to let people survive the collapse of their world. They were never made to be a super-effective networked race and they aren't. That doesn't mean SG-1 is better - it just means its cyber-creatures were made under different circumstances with different goals.
Personally I like all three series in different ways.
Doctor Who can indeed be very camp and imaginative and silly in its SF. Sometimes it owes more to Hitch-hiker's Guide to the Galaxy than serious SF. If you don't enjoy that aspect of the show, that's fine. That's not a matter of "better", it's a matter of different tastes.
This could have been a great story arc for the introduction of the next doctor for example. Reveal that the timeless child under pressure from torture and experimentation snapped and lost control of her power( do not make her the doctor) creating the time vortex and giving the time lords the power of regeneration. Hint at the doctor having some understanding of where the power of regeneration actually comes from as one of the underlying reasons why the Doctor ran away you could even hint at the doctor unknowingly being responsible for the atrocities against the timeless child if you want. Put a heavy emphasis on the big reveal that the power comes from grave atrocities and every regeneration is done via power stolen from an innocent being this could be used to set up a conflict later on where Jodi is dying but now that she is fully aware of where her power comes from she's resisting the urge to regenerate but the timeless child although angry at the time lords for what they've done to her and extremely conflicted sees all the good the Doctor has done and struggles internally but for the greater good goes to make peace with the doctor giving both the chance to vent their emotions and allowing Jodi to realize that regardless of how she got the power of regeneration the fact that she has constantly tried help others in need and the timeless child seeing the good in a dark situation gives both characters closure so Jodi can regenerate
The timeless child should have been the master or a character we font know much about like the other. If it was the master, it would explain a lot of stuff.
Yeah, if it had to be someone we knew, I'd prefer it to be The Master over The Doctor. It would make more sense
@@HarboWholmes Why? They did the same with the sound in his head.
Should have been The Rani
Susan his "Granddaughter".
@@countofdownable ?
Just want to point out that the “best” episode, “Nikola Tesla’s Night of Terror” the best part of it was Tesla, not the doctor or her companions, but Tesla
Yes, Tesla was brilliant. I can't remember the plot at all but the actor did an amazing job and really outshone the main cast.
And Edison. The two played off each other so well, with so many depths there, it should have just been them.
I know this is late but it really annoyed me that the Eddison actor was too old. He was just 9 years older than Tesla in real life and it didn't look like that at all on screen
It's a BIG red flag when The Doctor and companions are continually outshone by background characters.
@@michelleschaefer683 Basically all the Positive Stuff said by Harbo can be
Debunked or Dismissed.
Basically all the good stuff to be said is not really good for Real.
What a sad thing in itself, isnt it?
Thankful you brought up the music, haven't seen anyone else bring this up yet and it's a really important part of the show and to me, not that that would matter. But since Gold left, the music has been lacking in emotion, adrenaline and interest, the music hasn't got the substance that it used to, which is a shame, i have trouble remembering almost any of the episodes not just because the stories were... eh.... but the music makes such a difference, it's made to make you feel and think and engage with things, but in the last 2 series', it just hasn't been there, and that's a real shame.
Ædam no. Up the shard and the long song were my favourites
@@jcfawerd
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Something that bugs me with people who tried to defend 11, and still bring it up with 12, is the First episode's numbers.
The viewing numbers of the first episode of a season has Very little to do with the quality of the show itself. It says "Advertising was good." It says "The prior seasons were good."
It's like saying fish love dying on a boat because so many bite the hook.
Yup. I'm fairly confident the viewer ratings for Season 12 mostly reflect how they feel about Season 11. Noone is ever going to convince me that 'Arachnids in the UK' deserves twice the ratings of 'Fugitive of the Judoon' or 'The Haunting of Villa Diodati'...
Damn that’s a good analogy
"I felt nothing for any of them." 17:19
So relatable throughout the whole Chibs era 🤣
Unfortunately, I have to agree with you on most of your points. The main things I disagree with are the episode "Can You Hear Me" (I very much appreciated the effort, as I too struggle with mental health, but I didn't think the episode was very well executed) and your statement that Jodie still doesn't feel like the Doctor. (I actually see her in the role now, but I don't connect with her and also think she was probably miscast.) I wish I could say I won't be back for series 13 but I can't really resist Doctor Who.
That's fair enough! I can see where you're coming from. The mental health message was kind of just tacked on and didn't really fit the rest of the episode. I agree about Series 13. Right now I really don't want to come back for it, but I'll probably end up watching it anyway. Although that being said, I stopped watching Series 11 after Rosa and didn't get tempted back (although I did watch Kerblam! and Battle of Root Canal)
@@HarboWholmes The sad thing is, you didn't miss ANYTHING. Series 11 wasn't good or important in any way.
Yeah, it's why I said that literally any episode could have come after Ghost Monument. I know a lot of people liked that the stories were completely standalone, but the problem is that the stories weren't even all that good anyway
@@HarboWholmes How do you figure the mental health message was tacked on to 'Can You Hear Me?'? The villain was an eternal enemy who turns your own thoughts into monsters to use against you, who can never be fully defeated, only temporarily locked away by facing and owning your monsters. It's a blatant metaphor for depression. Tahira and Tibo went through the same basic journey over the course of the episode in different ways, Tahira's monsters were just more physical than Tibo's.
The biggest problem I have with the new doctor and the little I saw was that it didn't feel like dr who. Dr who is essentially the fantastical adventure of a very old and very wise melancholic time traveller who's a tad mad and ruthless at times due to his years of experience and what he's done. This makes the series very political at times, very melancholic at others, and quite hilarious even. It was a rather enjoyable experience because the show covered so much shit at once, and most of it was a good view.
Now here comes the new female doctor, I for one was actually interested in seeing how a female doctor would react to being a woman, and how it would affect his/her behaviour. What I did not expect was the story taking a complete backseat to politics, it completely forgetting how to balance humor, melancholy and seriousness. It completely revamped the doctor's personality. The new doctor has nothing in common with any previous doctors in recent history... It just feels like a different production crew who came in and went "yea, fuck reading up on the lore, fuck hiring writers - just put some snappy jokes in there and riddle it with current politics - it'll be greaaaat!".
I just get so bored watching this I can’t watch any of it. It’s just so boring and predictable. It is like a 8 year old wrote this and they got the actors from the street. If she doesn’t regenerate soon then the show will be so plain and boring
Are you telling me that you predicted what would happen in Fugitive of the Judoon? Or even the twist in Orphan 55?
irrevenant3 Obviously I don’t mean EVERY single moment, but a lot of the time you could predict what would happen.
@@James_Ravenscroft Everyone sees things differently but that wasn't my experience. The ending of Spyfall Part 1 surprised me. I didn't see the main twist in Orphan 55 coming, nor the one with Bella. I didn't know what the purpose of the sphere in the Tesla episode was or what the aliens were after at first. Fugitive of the Judoon surprised me about three different times. I *was* suspicious of the well-equipped shack in the middle of nowhere in Praxeus, but I didn't anticipate the nature of the threat (which was a clever concept, IMO) and I didn't guess what the aliens' goal was. I didn't anticipate the twist with the captured young woman in "Can you hear me?". I didn't anticipate the nature of the haunting in "The Haunting of Villa Diodati". I didn't anticipate the ending of "Ascension of the Cybermen".
In short, almost every episode had at least one thing that came as a surprise, sometimes more. If you picked most of those then you're probably just better at anticipating twists than me. Personally I didn't find the stories this season predictable.
Irrevenant Fair enough, but for me I could nearly predict most of them.
@@James_Ravenscroft Fair enough. So yeah, just genuinely a case of us experiencing it differently...
Wow! This is the most neutral review of the show.
I liked the season, well, most of it, but the lore just got destroyed. When I tell my friends that I watch DW I want them to see the magnificence of the show that has been carefully handcrafted by the producers. I don't want them to look at it and be like, "What bullshit is this?"
Neutral? I don't think this can be described as neutral.
The lore hasn't been destroyed, it's been extended.
irrevenant3 - No...it’s been destroyed, from the top down.
Basically all the Positive Stuff said by Harbo can be
Debunked or Dismissed.
Basically all the good stuff to be said is not really good for Real.
What a sad thing in itself, isnt it?
The entirety of the Chibnall era has been dreadful. I have stopped watching, as have many long time fans. It no longer feels like Doctor Who. Even at its worst, the Capaldi era still felt like (poor) Doctor Who. This just feels like something completely different and the heart has been ripped out.
Damn, I was just working on a video called The Companion Conundrum! I feel exactly the same about Chibnall's era, it's made it difficult for me to enjoy.
Haha! Great minds think alike
Not who I was expecting to find here, a surprise to be sure but a pleasant one
I am very much looking forward to your Companion Conundrum! The neglect of the companions' characterisations has much hampered my enjoyment of the show.
Series 12 is the worst series of the modern show. Even as someone who genuinely enjoyed series 11 this killed my investment in the show. The biggest moments feel they don't have the weight they should or just forced and are often retreads of stuff done before. Gallifrey's gone again, the Master is just John Simm light except on crack(and they forgot Missy's development), Jack back cause RTD stans are the vocal minority, the Turned Jodie into 10lite with incredibly forced sounding dark moments. Jodie definitely has the range to do it but it just feels unearned.
Eh, I found it more enjoyable than Series 11, but I do agree that there is no weight to any of the big moments and a lot of it is recycled from RTD and Moffat. I did enjoy The Master in this and I'm holding out hope that it's pre-Missy to explain why they binned off her development. In terms of Jodie I've always thought her take on The Doctor is just a bad Tennant impression mixed with a CBBC presenter
Eh I liked season 12 far more than season 11... Thou tbh they are still both in my lower half in the ranking of new who. As for the master, I think Sasha's take was far better then Simms with him just seeming more meaning and physical.
Chibnall: ‘I don’t want the Doctor to be a super important god-like hero like they have been’
Also Chibnall: So the Doctor is basically the entire reason the Time Lords can regenerate now
I think the timeless child would have worked if it just wasn’t the doctor
I think it would be better if it was the master.
I strongly suspect that the Timeless Child reveal was in order to set up stories for Season 13 and beyond. I'm guessing that Season 13 will feature the Doctor searching for her true origins and dealing with the fallout from her time with The Division. I don't think either of those storylines would work if the Timeless Child was someone else.
Imagine the Doctor finally finds the Timeless Children and discovers they're a menace to be feared - and now the Doctor has drawn their attentions to our universe. Is that a more interesting story if the Doctor is a Timeless Child who fled the evil empire to escape and now has to face up to them to defend all she cares about? Or if the Doctor is a Gallifreyan and the Timeless Child is someone else?
Overall I don't think we can really say if it would work better for the Timeless Child to be someone other than the Doctor until we see what they're actually planning to do with that idea.
@@ionia2376 me too
You're right about screen presence. Jo Martin as the Doctor was immediately more convincing, even though I didn't agree with her character's part in the plot.
The 12th doctor is going to wake up soon and say to Bill and Nardol, "I just had the worst dream ever, you got turned into a cyberman and I turned into a woman!".
Then Future Master will try to destroy the 12th doctor and Missy will come out regenerate into Jody Witter and it will be reveled to be Romana.
Ah! The Patrick Duffy twist! For those too young to remember, being validated in entire season of Dallas, we're Patrick Duffy's character Bobby was killed. They ended seasoned with him in the shower. I think Capaldi has just enough Moxie to pull that off
Nardol says
I will get us some tea and biscuits.
Oh How I Wished That was So True!😟
@@danielross5292
Nardol is making tea.
They dumped on William Hartnell. I find that unforgivable.
I think it's worth mentioning that so many episodes had Chibnall write or co-write, including Praxeus. Not saying for certain, but I think Chibs' contribution may have been what made the episode so lacklustre. Why can't he just let them write anyway
I definitely don't like how involved Chibnall has been with the stories. Obviously, showrunners are involved with every script, but usually, it's minimal enough to not need a co-writing credit. Chibnall has a writing credit for 14/21 of the stories in his era. He just infects them with Chibnall-ness
5:28 this is why I loved the Netflix show Dirk Gently’s holistic detective agency so much, because it was mainly Dirk himself who cracked silly jokes every now and again, but I wouldn’t have been as hooked if everyone was doing the same every 2 minutes. Shows need comic relief when it comes to a show like Doctor who, but when every character is just a comic relief machine then it makes everything less serious and enjoyable.
Dirk Gently's Hollistic Detective Agency is actually a BBC show, but I completely agree with you. Comic relief is important, but must be dine with consideration to the tone, plot and characters. Also, nice to hear people talking about that show.
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I implore everyone who's still sane to share
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I honestly haven’t watched series 12 I stopped watching halfway through series 11.
I've been watching Dr who since 1975 - as soon as they gave the Doctor a sex change I stopped watching. If they wanted a female role model .. why didn't they just bring back Romana III?
I have also avoided series 12, but I have been reading reviews and such. Clearly I made the correct choice.
@
Nautilus1972 There is no problem, at all, with The Doctor regenerating into a woman. Its been known for a long time that Time Lords can change gender when regenerating. Missy was awesome, that worked out very well. Chibnall & Whittaker just failed at it.
Its allot better than series 11. But it's still upsettingly shite
same lol
There's a couple that are worth seeing.
No, literally just two. Making EIGHT in the series not being worth the bother.
I agree with pretty much all of this, especially what you had to say at the end about not wanting the show to get cancelled. A lot of former fans are hoping for the show to get cancelled, but I hate that sentiment. I don't want the show to get cancelled; I want it to get better.
Personally, I really disagree with a lot of what you said about "Can You Hear Me?". I absolutely hated this episode by the end of it; in fact, it's the episode that made me give up on the show until we hopefully get a new showrunner/Doctor. First off, that scene at the end with the Doctor and Graham. You say you like it because the Doctor not knowing what to say is relatable to you. Fair enough. I think it's awful because of the way it characterizes the Doctor, or maybe fails to characterize her. My problem isn't so much that she didn't know what to say but that she showed absolutely no compassion for Graham in a very vulnerable moment for him. I feel any other "socially awkward" incarnation of the Doctor would have found something to say in that moment because, in my view, that's the kind of person the Doctor is. For example, I think of the girl dying at the end of "A Good Man Goes to War." The Doctor has no idea who she is, but even so, he finds the words to comfort her in her final moments. That's the Doctor, not whatever the hell 13 did in that scene.
Secondly, the writing in that episode was piss-poor. It started out alright, but it ended up being yet another case of Chibnall having no clue how to wrap up an episode. The conflict was solved in a few minutes with little to no effort on the Doctor's part. I mean, for god's sake, the way they built up how dangerous and powerful those two Eternals were, you'd think the Doctor would have to try a bit harder to defeat them, but no, the episode's almost over and we still have to shoehorn in 5-10 minutes on the companions' mental health! Just an absolute mess.
Finally, I want to talk about the timeless child. Like I said, I didn't finish the series, but I've seen plenty of coverage of it at this point to have a pretty good understanding of how the timeless child arc went down. I want to say that I actually love certain aspects of this idea. The Timelords kidnapping a child and torturing it for ages to steal the power of regeneration is such an interesting idea. What ruins it is that they made the Doctor the timeless child. Imagine if it wasn't the Doctor; it was just some kid. The Doctor learning the origins of the power of regeneration would create a huge moral dilemma for her. When it comes time for her to regenerate, she has to come to terms with whether or not it's okay for her to do. On the one hand, she feels guilty about using the stolen power after learning its dark origins, but on the other, she's used it for good all these years and could continue to do good for many more if she were to keep using it. That's the dilemma she faces, and it would provide such a desperately needed character arc for this incarnation of the Doctor. As a side note, if they wanted to make the timeless child a familiar character, why not make it the Master? Then it becomes even more personal for the Doctor, but there's still that important separation. It would also make the Master destroying Gallifrey make a lot more sense and could be used to explain the several times we thought the Master was dead for good only to return later.
Whatever. That's it. I know it's a lot. None of my friends watch the show, so I guess I needed to finally vent somewhere.
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I like the Doctor not being a Timelord because Timelords have been shown to pretty much exclusively be terrible people so to me it makes more sense that way
The interesting thing isn't just that it rewrites the Doctor's history; that means Rassilon lied to everyone about everything for practically an eternity; an entire civilization was built on lies and stolen power while the source of that power was ostracized and eventually sentenced to death for refusing to go along with their evil.
It's a good narrative, and even touches on one of the older quasi-canon origins for the Doctor as a progenitor that threw themselves into the Loom and were reincarnated as the Doctor.
To me what makes it more interesting than the original backstory is that it really unseats the Doctor from the regular flow of time and mortality; the Doctor has done so many things in New Who (rebooted the universe???) that if all Timelords were actually capable of such feats, if they were truly that powerful and smart, how did the Daleks ever become a real threat?
No, their power has always been an illusion, their feats lies and deception meant to hide the truth; their power and dominance came from something they stole from an orphaned child.
I was confused about how the Dr and the Master could suddenly both get to and from Galifrey with no trouble... I thought Galifrey was lost ?
Did you not watch hell bent?
So I just watched The Timeless Children a second time and I think The Master is lying by having hacked The Matrix and is giving The Doctor a false existential crisis because The Master never wins and is running out of ideas. I also believe The Master is such a narcissist that if the information he is projecting into The Doctor's mind is absolutely true he couldn't and wouldn't give this information to The Doctor because The Master will never accept that The Doctor is better than he is. The Master suffers from cognitive dissonance and is completely delusional because no matter what he tries whether cheating or in this case lying he never will win and that he is the epitome of persevering insanity. Thoughts?
Hacking the matrix is the easy out for this whole mess, but it is a bit of a copout (still, I'd rather take an eye-rolling copout than what we currently have to deal with!) Your idea makes sense because this is something The Master would do as a last-ditch effort. Rather than trying to kill The Doctor directly he wants to break her and make her snap and seek vengeance, thus bringing her down to his level. You're absolutely right that The Master wouldn't want to tell The Doctor that she's more important than him.
Personally, I like to think that if we do need one of the two to be the Timeless Child, it fits The Master better, especially because he's been manipulated and used by the Time Lords his whole life. It also makes more sense as to why he would be angry enough to destroy Gallifrey itself upon finding it out.
@@HarboWholmes Yes! If it's revealed that The Master is the timeless child than it would definitely make more sense and would be the reason he even has that specific name. I also agree that it would be a cop out to an extent but this explanation would bother me the least amount. I also forgot to mention all of the redacted info that he somehow couldn't read/hack or wouldn't show if he already knows that info. The episode did linger on that for a while.
@Scooby McDooby I also have a theory that Ruth might be The Master which is why neither her or The Doctor remember each other and why she appeared in the Matrix but who knows? I won't say it will never happen because we don't know what's going to happen next. I see that you would bet on it not happening but I think a retcon wouldn't happen because of egos and lying in the bed that's made, moreso than a black child.
I still feel the Timeless Children was one of the Masters lies to have one more attempt at breaking the doctor, and not exactly truth
Beant maybe in 5 years we all survive the Coronavirus , chibnal will be booted and they reboot the whole thing or at least retconn it all
The issue with most of season 12 is that it breaks literally all the previous lore. For example, in the first series, the doctor shows rose how Humans spread out into space and expand from Earth. But the new series states that Earth dies from global warming. I get the meaning, but it fails. And don't get me started with the Doctor being the original time lord.
This was a masterfully well done video essay.
Thank you! :)
I feel like your political take was a bit off. For me personally, yes, Dr Who has always been political. BUT it has always been surface level topics subtly hinted at. Stuff like, "These people have too much power" "Harmony and togetherness" "Save the Earth" blah blah blah. But recently its turned from "We need to fix our home." to "These old white politicians are at fault for our destruction, blame them."
I been waiting all season for your overall opinion 👍🤪
Well, you need not wait any longer!
Harbo Wholmes I agree with absolutely everything only except for when graham went to the doctor to explain about his fear of cancer, this is the 13th doctors quote when people come to for help I never refuse...welllll that quote is kinda bullshit since her friend her companion of well over a year comes to her for reassurance of fear of cancer, and the doctor just says I’m socially awkward...I’m about as socially awkward as the next person it’s something I struggle with but if my friend came to me scared of getting cancer again I’d do everything to eliminate that fear and that’s just what I would do...I can only imagine what 10th 11th or 12th would have said or done surely something so much more reassuring and less cold than sorry I’m socially awkward, ugh in my opinion such a down grade in terms of the doctor being someone who apparently never refuses help whatever way that may be !!
Btw I would love to see a video of the top scariest dr who episodes like god complex midnight or even the parting of ways that episode was terrifying all those people just waiting for the daleks to kill them cos they didn’t listen to cap jack ugh scary etc and which one is the absolute scariest!!!! Old who new who which ever!!👍☺️
Yeah, I definitely see the other side of the argument when it comes to that scene, I think a lot of it comes from how people read into it. I do disagree with the people who say she should take him to get permanently cured because that would give The Doctor far too much power. The Thirteenth Doctor has no clear character or morals either, which doesn't help that scene. As you said, the previous three Doctors all have clear personalities that would lead to different responses in that scenario, but the Thirteenth Doctor has been so inconsistent with her morals that it's difficult to understand why she reacts in that way. If she had been shown to be far more socially awkward before (such as the Twelfth Doctor with his cue cards) I don't think there'd have been as much backlash
My problem is that I couldn't give a shit about the companions even if I tried. I remember when companions used to be the most interesting characters of their seasons. Yaz, Ryan and Graham are just plain. There's too many of them to focus on. The Doctor Who dynamic should only ever work with two main characters (maybe three if the chemistry is right), but four? That's too many characters to have in such little time, especially if you have other side characters that the episode is based around.
Jodie Whitaker could've been an amazing Doctor, unfortunately she was paired with Chibnall's writing. Had Jodie been paired with Moffat or even Davies, she would've excelled in this role.
I feel like we need a do-over, either with a new showrunner, new companions, a new Doctor or even all of the above.
Well said.
The thing is, the Mythbusters actually proved you CAN polish a turd. It’s disgusting, look it up.
I...don't think I will 😂 But man I miss Mythbusters
FINALLY SOMEBODY MENTIONS THE SCORE! THE MUSIC IS SO DULL!!!
The praise of Fugitive of the Judoon is absolutely insane completely wasted Captain Jack and ruined Doctor Who until the finale killed it completely
10:39 I heard this line spoken by so many people to excuse poor story telling so many times. I know that's not what your saying but I sick on tired of hearing that be said over and over again.
A poorly written story is a poorly written story and their No amount of pretty visuals that can make up for it.
I mean, they can, that's why people don't read as many books.
I’m fed up with Chibnall’s constant use of threads that go nowhere and redundant characters. After you’ve seen it so many times you have little investment in the series because you can recognise the route the story is taking and the elements that are worth ignoring. In its current incarnation, the only sense of ‘wonder’ I get from Doctor Who is “I wonder why I bothered watching”.
Do you have some examples of 'threads that go nowhere'?
I feel like they took like 5 people from the street and were like "your the docyor, you three are companions and you are the master :)"
Ah I feel that's harsh to Sasha. He portrayed the master really well imo
Throwing shade at Legends? Not cool dude
I'd sum up the Whitaker era as 'preachy.'
Yeah, Legends is satire so it can get away with doing stupid shit. Chibnall who on the other hand
'Can You Hear Me?' has some good themes and good character development. The animation sequence is an interesting way to deliver Chibnall's exposition. It still has the same issues as most of Chibnall's era. The Syria plot point could have been removed to delve deeper into our companions. The female eternal could have been fleshed out better. The resolution was poorly handled and the villains were defeated by the sonic.
Spyfall borrows a lot of elements from Army of Ghosts, The Sound of Drums and The Bells of Saint John and those episodes do it a lot better. Fugitive of the Judoon borrows elements from Smith and Jones, Utopia and Name of the Doctor. Orphan 55 borrows elements from The Mysterious Planet.
You got it spot on for the Haunting of Villa Diodati. The Lone Cyberman appears halfway through the episode and I'm underwhelmed by it. The doctor decides that it's the lone cyberman 2 seconds after finding out. Jodie's performance at the end is a highlight for her character. It's a bit messy especially after mr lonelyman appears. The finale is poor even if you forget about the reveal.
Jodie doesn't have any gravitas which is why she doesn't feel like the doctor. Even the Ruth Doctor has more screen presence.
After the mega-success of Dr Who when it was brought back with Christophers Ecclestone followed by David Tennant, the show has simply started running out of steam. The Tennant years were sensational. Matt Smith was ok - not as good as the previous two imo, but he benefited from the excellent writing and production values that still existed. Peter Capaldi was excellent as the Doctor, but the production/writing were starting to lose their spark. By the time they got to the new Doctor, they have changed so much that a lot of people simply can't relate to it anymore. I was fine with a female doctor and Jodie is a fine actor, but the way the plots have been so painfully patronising has spoiled what should have been a celebration of having her in the role. Add to that the blatantly politically correct group of companions and you have a concoction that for me has made it unwatchable. And don't start me on Bradley Walsh....I love him to bits, but his appearances on Dr Who make him look like a fish out of water. The Peter Davison/Sylvester McCoy/Colin Baker years were when the programme went gradually downhill - it's getting that way again.
The Matt Smith era is when CW soap opera New Who became real Doctor Who with syfy madness.
What went wrong?
In short: Chibnall happened.
It took me years to realise: All the Episodes i skip in a D.W. rewatch are ALL Chibnall Episodes.
He's by no means a bad writer. The man practically saved Torchwood and made it into something worth watching. He also wrote the short story with Rory's dad. Which was amazing. The dude just can't handle full Doctor Who episodes for whatever reason.
Jodie was miscast. That’s it. It doesn’t mean she’s a bad actress, it means that she’s not the right actress for the part. She’s so miscast that an actress (whom I’ve seen be a very good actress) comes across as wooden and bland.
In what way 'miscast'? If you've seen her be a very good actress, then what makes her a poor fit for this particular role?
Personally I think the #1 problem is that the show has never clearly defined *who this character is.* Each incarnation of the Doctor has their own individual character and quirks and I'm not convinced the show has ever worked out who Thirteen is.
I've noticed that Jodie's acting has been a lot stronger in Season 12 where they've given her some actual *character* to sink her teeth into. My personal Thirteen highlight for Season 12 is probably her "Sometimes this team structure isn't flat at all" speech from "The Haunting of Villa Diodati". And I think a lot of that is because Jodie had a clear picture of what she had to convey. I think she *absolutely* can be a great Doctor. The writing just needs to give her something solid to sink her teeth into.
irrevenant3 I think she’s completely mis cast - just because she’s a good actress it doesn’t mean she’s a good doctor - sure, the character isn’t that well defined but twelves was all over the place but Capaldi could pull it off because he was cast right. Simarly to Peter Davison (IMO) she doesn’t have any gravitas, she doesn’t have anything alien about her and her performance has no essence what’s so ever.
The scripts would make made every actor look bad as the doctor.
The only smart choice would be to literally make the 11th season onward non canon and start again with a new doctor perhaps one that actually respects the show she is on and it's history
Quick question, at that one point of Skyfall Part Two, why did the Doctor lock the Master put if the elevator? First, it goes against her character, as the Doctor always wanted to redeem the Master. Second, the Master is a murderous SOCIOPATH. He will murder all of the people sent to arrest him, but it seems that the Doctor forgot she wants to save people's lives. It also seems like the writers forgot the Master enjoys killing and hurting people, too.
This is really bothering me, so if anyone has an explanation, please tell me.
Nothing is less Empowering than all
of this Modern Wokeness.
It's just occurred to me, or do a lot of Chibnall's finale type episodes seem to have the same battlefield setting? Ascension of the Cybermen basically seems the same as The Battle of Ranskoor Av Kolos (not that I remember what that was about anyway) and Resolution a bit and that has made me zone out. This engine is becoming increasingly more difficult to restart after so many stalls.
Well over half the Doctor Who finale episodes have a battlefield setting. That's not particularly a Chibnall thing. Though personally it bugged me that, despite the name, 'The Battle of Ranskoor Av Kolos' *had no battle in it!*
@@irrevenant3 I guess so. Chibnall just seems to have a thing for long, complicated titles even if they have no relevance to the plot.
@@DoctorVision Yup. xD Although to be fair, I think that's the only one that's actually inaccurate.
My peev with 13 is that when someone dies, she's just:
"oh rip :(" *aight, back to normal haha*
The other Doctors usually cared about that stuff, even if it was something completely out of his control, you'd see some regret or anger, sadness maybe? But nothing sticks with 13 and she just carries right on 95% of the time.
That would be ok if the other characters actually acknowledged it and had some feelings towards the Doctor's lack of. It could lead to some conflict and more depth in their dynamic, depth on the new doctor, but no we can't have that.
"Ehoop Tim Shaw owzat!"
Any of the others would've been righly miffed.
Only reason Tennet's Doc outs Harriet is he had a big DaddyStreak.
It would've been so much better if the Master was the Timeless Child - it might explain why he escapes all of the time when in impossible scenarios plus it gives a reason for his insanity
Nothing is less Empowering than all
of this Modern Wokeness.
-"easier for a newer audience to hop on"-
ads towards older fans.....
a paradox indeed
SOOO happy that someone else recognized that Praxeus was essentially Doctor Who's Birdemic!!
As soon as I saw the trashed river and the swarming birds I thought, "Did they rip off Birdemic?"
Still think it's way too preachy. Old episodes had morals but Chibnall episodes bash you over the head with his personal politics and virtue signaling. Just awful.
This Doctor doesn't seem to GENUINELY CARE ABOUT any of her companions.......
This is what happens when you try to introduce/develop 4 characters at once.
You know you have a problem when the actor playing the Master would make a better Doctor than the current Doctor.
You know you have a problem when in introduce a new doctor for 1 episode and they put the main doctor to shame
@@Yelamar1 FACT! If only Ruth was a future Doctor. I loved her Doctor but I can’t get behind it after the whole timeless child crap.
@@The_D0C70R i feal the exact same, i hope it turns out she is the 14th doctor, because if she is pre hartnell then there lots of reasons why it wouldnt make sence
I don’t think Jodie can play the doctor at all, but I do think that women can play the doctor, female incarnations like the Ruth doctor proved that, and one other kind of woman I think would work well would be a sweet, more elderly woman (like a female version of capaldi physically) that acts nice and sweet while well knowing she has the ability to destroy anything and everyone when she’s in control, and then having villains that take that control away to challenge her, but overall any actress that knows doctor who and loves it would work better than Jodie, especially since chibnall chose her because she hadn’t seen doctor who and TOLD HER not to watch any to “make her own character” as though she is the first ever doctor of the show, something with 50 years of brilliant baggage and lore should never be treated like this by its CAST, CREW AND SHOWRUNNER!!!!
Can’t agree more with this. Jodie is absolutely not a bad actress. She’s done some great performances. But she’s not the doctor. A lot of people rebuttal this argument by saying “you don’t like strong women”. A statement to which I laugh at, not just because it’s a weak argument but because my favourite companion is Ace mostly because she is the most badass companion in the show.
A female doctor is not a bad idea, but the actress must be able to fully show she can BE the Doctor. I.e Olivia Colman, Eva Green, Emily Blunt, Gillian Anderson, hell even Tilda Swinton. But Jodie just doesn’t hit the mark. She is miscast and I think that doctor who needs a strong named Thespian to take over the role. To breath new life into the show once more.
Chinibal is so low level, that instead of having the balls of proper cast a black Doctor for being the actual 13th, he made an dumb choice, mess up the canon, just to say "Hey hey hey, it had being females and black doctors before ok ??" So shallow, so sad.. Just accept that we had 13 (with war) white male's incarnations, and it's fine. Then take your chance to change that and made it right. Chinibal wants so bad to take this "space for all" but honestly he is the worst showrunner in this case, he's vision of diversity is black characters being side characters, empty, overall just awful.
Jo Martin was great in the role, and he screw this up putting her in an impossible incarnation of the character just to say that he made a black Doctor, but dude you even made a proper Doctor to claim that.
God i hate this man..
I wish someone would redo series 11 and on using the same cast, just better everything.
I wish someone would kill the entire cast and retcon everything since Tennant left
Yaz is by far the most dull empty character ever seen on doctor who with absolutely NO character development whatsoever… even Bradley Walsh couldn’t save it and I feel like Josie Whittaker wasn’t confident enough to make the doctor her own
The one moment in the finale that sums it up to me, the one moment that show's Chibnall's complete misunderstanding of the Doctor is when Ko offers to sacrifice himself instead of the Doctor, and she barely bats an eyelid and runs away. When has the Doctor EVER so willingly let someone else sacrifice themselves in his/her place? Because now, since she is so special, the most divine being in the universe, she just has to let someone else die in her place.
It's a bad series, but at least it's better than series nine. I think. That last episode has made me reconsider, although I loved Haunting of Villa Diodati, and would rather the writer of that one be the Showrunner, partly as that was he first episode! Chibnall's first was 42! One of the worst Tennant episodes!