The Greatest Doctor Who Ghost Story
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- Опубликовано: 16 авг 2023
- Doctor Who loves ghosts and Series 9's Under the Lake/Before the Flood is a perfect example of this, with a chilling and thrilling underwater ghost story. But what makes this two-parter so good?
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you know who else loves Ghost Stories? Carrie Underwood! and there's a song about it! LISTEN TO IT!
Best Capaldi quote, the one i use constantly :
"this Regeneration, it'S a bit of a Clerical error anyways!"
I think the biggest issue with a lot of moffat-era stories was how rushed they were. This episode just goes to show how much can be accomplished with two-parters. RTD seasons were chalk full of them!
I think it’s what I love about Series 9, each story gets time to breath
Chock
Yeah, unfortunately, the Moffat era is full of stories with great ideas and concepts that were ultimately executed badly and ended up a little underwhelming. Though I think there are too many two-parters in this season. The Zygon invasion, for example, is very boring to me (meaning specifically the first episode of that story, all the good bits happen in the second one) and I feel like one more concise episode would have been better.
Every season from 1-6 had the same amount of 2 parters in them.
@@_MyNameIsAJ_ a good man goes to war and lets kill hitler counts officially
The Capaldi era is FULL of underrated gems. Mummy and Flatline, while well loved, almost never come up in casual "best episode" conversations. Time Heist is SO underrated no one ever talks about it. This is another brilliant example, along with Series 10s Oxygen and Extremis. There's so much to love in this era and it unfairly catches a lot of flack for poor writing. I won't deny there IS poor writing, but people blow it up to ridiculous proportion.
I’ll never stop praising Capaldi but his performance is yet again top notch in this two parter
This is one of my favourite two parters of all time
Under the Lake, Impossible Planet, Silence in the Library, and Empty Child are all amazing two-parters and some of the best examples of Doctor Who writing ever. There is little, if anything, from the classic seasons that matches up to these treasures.
The guitar addition to the theme in the opening titles has been my mobile phone wake up alarm since this episode aired.
I always believed the Twelfth Doctor was like a University lecturer from the Listen and Before the Flood opening monologues, and we all know what happened in Series 10 by how he met Bill Potts. Not to mention, I have always thought of the Twelfth Doctor's outfits varying between University lecturer and student.
The thing about the bootstrap paradox is, in the closed loop model of time travel, there is no “original” version of events because there’s only one timeline. That’s why it’s so confusing!
That's kinda the point of a paradox. It's confusing because it is a paradox. It's to show something is wrong in math, theories, and such.
It's really just to show we don't know everything yet and that we are missing more knowledge than we realize.
Every time I get a hankering to watch DH. it's always this two parter I go to. it's one of my favorite New who stories
I feel the Bootstrap paradox explanation cold open gives hints at the kindnof next step for this Doctor when he becuase essentially a professor at a University. The way Capaldi delivers that scene is like he is chaotically delivering a lecture to a bunch of students. Because on that series we have a few scenes set at the University where the Doctor is delivering his lectures to the students and we see the style he delivers them and it is very similar to this cold open scene so I like that this is seeded here because then it doesn't feel weird that the Doctor suddenly became a University lecturer in the next series. Like yeah he kind of was one already.
I absolutely adore episodes where the show really toys with time travel concepts, like this one, Father's Day, and Turn Left. It's surprisingly rare for a show that features time travel so heavily! I love this two parter so much. It's just plain good! It really utilizes the two-parter format in a great way. Great companion episode set to the Impossible Planet, I'm glad you drew all those parallels. Ugh this season is just so good (it's controversial??? How?????)
Same! I really hope we get more of that. Time travel is a fascinating subject / idea to play with.
I really like times it's used not so much for plot but in some sense "casually". The example that comes to mind is in Hell Bent where the Doctor is stealing a different Tardis, and he materialises around Clara and she remarks "that was quick" and the Doctor just says "I backed up a bit".
Arguably also the way it was used as a really minor plot point like in Bella of Saint John where they fast forward to the next morning for a tactical advantage.
Best Capaldi quote, the one i use constantly :
"this Regeneration, it'S a bit of a Clerical error anyways!"
Cass feeling the floor is cool but if she suspected there was someone behind her enough to touch the floor, she could've just turned around and LOOKED in a fraction of the time lol
I think the point is she felt the floor vibrating with her feet but didn’t know the cause or where it was coming from so she felt with her hands to get more information before she knew to look back lol
If she'd looked, the ghost-robot might've taken the opportunity to wind up a horizontal swing. Not alerting her pursuer was smart.
I honestly love Capaldi as the doctor, no one can change my mind
I can tell by your profile picture
This two parter confirmed, yet again, that Clara and the Doctor both know their feelings for each other, but they don't want to talk about them directly. Clara tells that Doctor that if he loves her, he will come back for her, and he makes a promise that he will. Unlike with Danny, there's no need to keep saying "I love you" or any outward displays of affection. They live abnormal lives and understand each other on such a deep level that they don't need to talk about it.
23:53 Quite prophetic considering that Twelve actually dies while Bill is the companion.
I rewatched this recently and its crazy how well it holds up imo
Its only 8 years old xD but yes it does still work well on a re-watch :)
I still find it baffling that they didn't keep Peter Capaldi's guitar version of theme after this two parter. It's such a vast improvement on the actual Series 8-10 theme that if I had been Moffat, I would have insisted that Capaldi's take became the new official one beyond this two parter.
I've recently started thinking that maybe Season 9 of NuWho Doctor Who is my favourite series so far.
I 100% agree. This is the season that put Capaldi as my favorite Doctor. So many incredible episodes in one season. It does have a pretty big dud episode imo but so does every season
@@laineydavis00which episode is the dud episode (I’ll probably realise after checking the season nine list but still curious)
@@hamoiq908people don’t seem to like hell bent
@@hamoiq908 Sleep No More.
It’s sooooo good!!!!!
Ah...Beauty, thy name is Doctor Who Series 9 starring Peter Capaldi and Jenna Coleman (being reviewed by Harbo Wholmes)...!
It is still astonishing to me how they didn’t choose Toby Whithouse for his ok to solid banger episodes like this and they chose Chris Chibnall for his ok to really bad episodes like Dinosaurs on a Spaceship.
This is one of my all time favourite Doctor who stories
I wouldn't call Under the Lake/Before the Flood a classic, but I think it's a really solid 8.5/10 story, and it's a great "anytime" episode that you can throw on whenever and just have an enjoyable 90 min. It's also a great introductory episode for DW newbies, a good episode to sell the show to someone unfamiliar with it.
this two-parter is one of my favourite sets of new who episodes of all time...and one of my favourite parts in particular is the clara and doctor character development in the story, showing their growing codependency and how the doctor will break all of his own rules for clara (scolding bennett for wanting to save o'donell even though he just admitted that he is 'changing history to save clara'), and also developing clara's selfish streak more. like "not with me! die with whoever comes after me, you do not leave ME!" is one of my FAVOURITE clara moments because it's such a uniquely twisted thing to say in her desperation. she's one of the few companions to acknowledge that there will be others after her, and it's not something that bothers her, even though it's bothered pretty much every other companion. she knows their time together is short, but she demands all the time she can get. what she's telling him here isn't that he isn't allowed to die, but that he isn't allowed to hurt HER by dying before her. "you do not leave me" is just....it's such a great moment for clarifying her characterization and the bizarre, toxic elements of their mutually obsessive relationship
My fav 2-parter just after Family of Blood. EVERYONE was fantastic but like in FOB where Baines and Matron Joan are the stand out performances Cass and O'Donnell are just as good. Loved when she feigned a stone in her boot just so she could hang back and hop round like a little kid saying "IT'S BIGGER ON THE INSIDE!!". Great stuff.
I remember how I was once explaining this paradox same way on school trip! I use 12 Doctor explanation and everyone were interested.
These episodes did a really good job of establishing the crew, all of them are solidly realised characters
This episode manages to show so many different sides of 12 so naturally, Whithouse really gets Capaldi's character.
This and Happy Endings are probably my favorite bootstrap paradox stories for Doctor WHO. Excellent Cliffhanger!!
For any who don't know, in the book Happy Endings the 7th Doctor takes the Isley Brothers to their own future to play at Bernice's wedding and they happen to find a recording of Summer Breeze, which they had not written yet, but now they know exactly how it is supposed to go so when they get back to their own time they immediately record it. But then who actually wrote it? The 7th Doctor says TIME wrote it, and he's purposefully personifying Time as an entity that you should avoid at all costs because a debt is due that must at some point be paid.
I love that, despite his social awkwardness, 12 _tries_ to help his companions rather than putting them down or backing away from them like 13.
I rewatched these episodes just a few weeks ago, and it's a relief that you couldn't find faults in them either. Some of my favourites usually have a section of where it all falls apart a bit, and it can be difficult to admit those faults for me. But this really is a great two parter, and I'll never not enjoy Capaldi with a guitar even if it's just a setup for a good payoff later on.
The greatest tragedy of series 9 is that we didn't get the rock opening as a permanent addition.
All the base under siege stories owes their success to the second doctor. This story in particular reminds me alot of that era.
As a Whovian and a metalhead, those Corey Taylor fun facts are much appreciated
I’ve been waiting for this one! Series 9 is my favorite, but I couldn’t tell you how many times I’ve rewatched this two-parter in particular
This is tied with Thin Ice as my #1 Twelfth Doctor story. It’s hard to decide between them because they have the polar opposite in turns of pro and con: Thin Ice has a rather weak villain, but a great scene between Bill and the Doctor where she asks if he’s ever killed. UTL/BTF however has phenomenal villains in the ghosts and the Fisher King, but an absolute cringe in Clara's "if you love me speech" takes me right out of the episode.
This story definitely lost me somewhere, but I’m glad it’s got a fandom because I could feel it’s more a me thing than the episodes themselves
The side characters this episode reminded me of The Impossible Planet/Satan Pit
Edit: I commented this before any of your parallels to those episodes
I love the “Minister of War” line so much, because I really get the feeling that some show-runner many years from now will be like “Oh, hey, what was that? Let’s put it in!”
It would be nice if the Minister of War was “The Boss” the one that The Meep talked about. Since The Meep was a war race it would be relevant.
I must say it's begging for some future showrunner to look into.
Hands down my favourite of Series 9. Call me uncultured for not enjoying Heaven Sent as much as everyone else, but this speaks to my soul and is the only time I allow Clara to be cocky because she's quite relatable in this one.
Agreed.
This episode is in my top 5 episodes of all time. The capaldi era has such underrated stories. Like oxygen this two parter and many more
y'know I hated this story when it first aired, because I thought it was a little too slow and boring. but when I came back to rewatch s9 in its entirety a couple of years ago, I really enjoyed it, and that's one thing I found with all of s9. it's suited to being binge watched. now I don't think television should be produced for binge watching unless you want a ten hour film with designated intermissions, but watching the two-parters right next to each other instead of having to wait a week was much more fun. anyway I couldn't keep hating this story when before the flood has the best cold open and opening credits of the entire revived run
Loved this story. The Fisher King reminded me of something Geiger would cook up.
Such an underrated Capaldi two parter
Wait a minute, doesn’t the bootstrap paradox just confirm the “Self-Sufficient” version of time travel? The one where the events were always there and you only experience them when you get to that point in time? Like for example the ghost of the doctor appeared because the doctor goes back and creates it, and since time was always that way, the ghost appeared even though it was the first time the doctor was experiencing that part. Right?
There is now way the Fisher King was not inspired by the Skeksis
Harbo’s are my favourite videos to listen to while going about my day. I love your channel! ❤️
I would like to throw into the room, that Clara's obsession with adventure maybe wasn't put into overdrive because she has nothing left after Danny, but because she had out it before Danny because it was an obsession already then, and it cost her his life and their future together; now the adventure and risk has to mean so much more, to validate the loss, to validate itself and her previous decisions and herself.
It's like she reaffirming to herself, that this is it, this is everything, all that matters. It's (clearly depicted as) an addiction, so it has its own rational, but a sort of a sunk cost fallacy, like the person who lost their house bit keeps going back to gambling, just instead of hoping for a million dollars, in Clara's case, it's to make her own life mean something (possibly a bit of survivor's guilt in there as well after Danny's death), something more (to justify her loss of him) - so she needs to take risks, pretend to be a hero (as she perceives the Doctor to be) and keep going and going and risk more... And whenever she comes out alive, it both serves as a feeling of immortality as well as a new starting point, she needs to risk more to validate the previous risks taken... and her own life.
Everything Danny was against? She's now seeking it out like a bloodhound. No more balance, no more safety net. He died for it. She needs to prove to herself that the crazy and life threatening adventures mean something - no, mean *everything* . It's not rational, but she was addicted long before! If anything, the mortal connection (the balance, the love in the "real" world) was what got her hurt. But in this state of mind, it is all about justifying the addiction, putting it on the highest pedestal (become what she perceives the Doctor to be). Danny was the price she paid, so she now has to even more make the most of it, right? ...right?! (Again, addiction is very subjective and warped in its rationality.)
Tl;dr: I think Danny's death did not leave her with nothing else, but made her need to prove the adventure is all the more important (in her already addicted mind).
This entire bit - "...in Clara's case, it's to make her own life mean something (possibly a bit of survivor's guilt in there as well after Danny's death), something more (to justify her loss of him) - so she needs to take risks, pretend to be a hero (as she perceives the Doctor to be)..." I just had to copy/paste, because I think you're right on a lot of things here, but wrong on one very important one that just occurred to me while reading this.
You say she needs to pretend to be a hero *as she perceives the Doctor to be,* but I don't think that's entirely right. Your mention of survivor's guilt reminded me of Danny Pink's chance to come back. Yet instead of returning to life, he sent that kid who was accidentally killed because of him when he was a soldier. Danny Pink had his last moments with Clara. Those were enough for him, and he thought they were enough for her. So instead of coming back to life and living with his own sense of survivor's guilt, he did the heroic and selfless thing and let that kid go in his place. I think Clara is pretending to be the hero *she perceives Danny Pink to be.*
Though granted, I could be completely wrong, because frankly, I've grown to hate her as a companion and therefore haven't watched Capaldi's seasons pretty much since they first aired.
@@kateworkman921 interesting thought, but I am not sure Clara ever really acted as selfless, or even remotely so, after Danny's death. She takes risks, and protects those who can't protect themselves, in the end that is what costs her her life. But even the Doctor realized that Clara did her last sacrifice not as some selfless act; she did it because she did not really think there would be long term (deadly) consequences for herself. The doctor always saves others, puts himself at risk, and comes out on top in the end. But the fallacy being that unlike Clara the Doctor either always has a plan or is clever/wise enough to make one on the go - and even then has an ace hidden up his sleeve. Clara just runs in head first and... Well. It did not turn out well because she didn't have all the information...
So, yeah, that gung-ho attitude is what the Doctor seems to be like, can be perceived as, but really... He is a clever trickster in his own right (which Clara is not, despite being fairly clever - for a young human - herself).
I try but fail to come up with examples that show Clara acting with Danny as a clear cut role model (feel free to educate me, it's been a while since I did a rewatch of the show).
Maybe the problem lies within the similarities Danny and the Doctor share on some levels? Yet, Danny was more down to Earth... He was a lot of things, in his own right, and where they overlapped but also differed was where he and the Doctor clashed, but Danny could hardly ever be described as reckless (except that one time he didn't look left and right before crossing the street... [too soon?]).
I think it’s an interesting east egg where you can see the head of the Fisher King on the sea serpent mural in the base’s cafeteria.
this was one of the only episode that really creeped me out when i was a kid, that ghost cliff hanger made me not sleep that night 😂
i cant wait for you to finally reach series 10, my favourite.
These 2 episodes scared me to shit when I first watched it, but I loved it! Glad to see I’m not alone with loving this two-parter.
It has the sea bass feel like facing the Silurians and sea devils
14:47 Please tell us that pun was fully intended, Mr Wholmes!
Always
@@HarboWholmes Thank you. Pun pride is a real vibe. We should always intend our puns.
Loved this two parter, my only negative for it is O'Donnell's death, such a great character to die by stepping out with her back to where the creature was, wish they could just let her get caught while hiding instead of that strange choice
Somehow, his uploads are exactly in sync with me watching the episodes for the first time
As much as you gush about this story, tbh I don't remember anything about it. As for the ghost stories, the other 2 mentioned I adore, Hide being spectacular giving me almost Classic Who vibes with the setting and date.
The hardest Who stories to write are the villainous plots that the Doctor would be genuinely impressed by. Toby Whithouse conjured up a timey wimey masterpiece here.
I just assumed it would have died from the sheer volume of water ramming into him.
today I learnt the villain was called the Fisher King, I thought it was Fissure King 😅
On second thought, it's honestly kind of hilarious that they used a random part of Britan to accurately portray the apocalyptic Soviet Union.
This story is my second favorite out of Series 9, and this is a good story for Halloween. I will say I do find the ghosts creepy with their black eyes. I love the setting of an underwater base and there is something scary about being underwater.
what's your favourite s9 story? :)
@@MireiaOnTheMoon Heaven Sent
@@dougsfilmtv9810 ahh of course, unmatched episode! forgot that was in s9 haven't rewatched for so long but now i'm feeling the urge haha
The writing in the eye also reminded me of the curse of Clyde Langer
Truly epic series and episodes. Love them .
Had no idea you were a Charlton Althetic fan. My condolences. 🙏
Don’t know why people think ‘Fisher King’ denotes an aquatic species. When I think of a fisherman I don’t picture someone who can breathe underwater.
Series 9 is my favorite NuWho Series, and it's because of this kind of storytelling. Chef's kiss.
16:49 It's like with Toph from Avatar. She is blind but still can see through her feed.
I love the idea of her being a completely normal person for most of the episode and then metalbending part of the base at one of the ghosts with zero explanation.
I love Stargate Atlantis!@!!
Nearly the best two-parter, second only to Human Nature!
Loved the episode loved the video :) series 9 is probably my favourite. Up the addicts
One of the few Capaldi stories I like.
The fisher king reminds me of water hazard from Ben 10
Oh it's Fisher King? I always thought it was *Fissure* King.
ill say one reason its soo good is the doctor who rock intro
Great vid
This one absolutely terrified me
I honestly didn't remember that this one exist.
Clara potentially sends people to their deaths to test a hypothesis. Which I thought was wrong. Is that sort of behavior wrong?
I mean it was a pretty fair assumption to assume that one guy was immune to the ghosts given that her survived before. Also, the alternative was to pretty much sit around in the Cage the whole time which wasn't gonna be very productive.
I love this two parter so much also Star Trek Easter egg
I disagree in terms of the cue cards. The doctor knows how to interact with people, he simply doesn’t care if they think he’s weird. Showing him have a lack of understanding after centuries of experience and socially fine regenerations is indeed a misinterpretation of the character. It’s in Jay Excis video, not entirely an original take
This story should have given the showrunner spot to Toby Whithouse. Not to Chris Chibnall.
i'm so here for your osgood take.
This 2-part episode is my favorite! Why? The person in charge is Deaf and the other characters do not condescend to her. DW writers need to learn a lesson from this and hire more Deaf actors.
In addition, “Before the Flood” is the episode where the Doctor introduces the bootstrap paradox and Peter Capaldi accompanies the opening orchestral DW theme with his electric guitar. In my opinion, this version of the DW theme should have been used for the remainder of Capaldi’s time as the Doctor.
God I'm looking forward to Heaven Sent review so much. Such a shame how bad Hell bent turned out to be
The first half was good, but I hated the second half. The first half reminded me of the game with the vashta nerada in the sea base.
I recently watched this two-parter for the first time yesterday and I am confused.
How did O'Donnel know about Harold Saxon?
Wasn't the year that never was erased from everyone's memories?
To be fair, he was prime minister for a short time before the memory wipe (I believe for like a couple of days)
Nice shirt, did you know ace is a Charlton fan
this story is sooo good
Didn't excpect to see a fellow Charlton fan when watching this video but I'm pleased anyway
whithouse's previous story wasn't the god complex it was a town called mercy
This two parter was good, if remember correctly it came after Master and Daleks episode. I saying ep 3/4.
This episode holds the distinction of being the last released episode in the Doctor Who that I consider genuinely great. Very few good episodes after this either, but yeah, this is where I'd recommend anyone stopped watching the show.
Best 2 parter in a series of 2 parters, but not the best in the Moffat era.
It’s a good two parter, but nothing tops Aliens Of London/World War 3
Not to mention caring for the characters. I was gutted for o'donnal
I think this story is alright (probably a little above average) but I feel like it gets strangely over-praised by certain fans (particularly by people who don't like the Clara era) and it ending up in the Top 10 Capaldi stories in the recent Doctor Who magazine poll was surprising. Definitely pretty cool visually and generally decent but there's definitely a bunch of little things that bring it down for me and I definitely preferred the S9 opener to this one.
I love the doctors version of Beethoven's fifth
I unironically wish that the Doctor's version of Beethoven's fifth was in the soundtrack.
stargate mentioned!!!!!!!!
Get in new Harbo video
Well done! Those were great episodes. I want to re-watch them now.