Appreciate your insight...you are correct in that. We didn't really cover all of the different hookups you could run into but that could be a video on it's own! The NEMA 14-50R is by bar the most common we see.
In Europe the most common connector for events requiring more amperage than a normal Schuko socket provides is called a CEE connector. We use the red ones for 3 phase + neutral + ground. Across the phases you have 415V and phase to neutral gives you 230V. We start with a 3 phase 16 amp connectors which can be distributed straight into 16A Schuko's without the need for further use of breakers etcetera. After that you get the most common one which is 32A and after that 63A and 125A. After that we get into twist locks which go up to 400A. And yes, they do get used a lot! The event industry favors rubber and metal distributors, depending on need and location. It's a bit different than you guys but a lot easier because we do not have the ridiculous amount of different connectors that you guys use.
Thanks Richard...there is so much to learn! It's actually pretty amazing that so many electronics are designed to adapt to the different power systems across the world.
I came here to say the same thing as you. In the UK, we of course have the regular 13A outlet in smaller venues rather than the Schuko. Much of what I do is in the smaller venue where regular UK 13A outlets are all we can expect, so I have a lot of the 13A UK to 16A CEE adaptors. All my my racks are assembled with a 16A CEE inlet (my amplifier rack has two) so I can balance the load across outlets or circuits. When it comes to Distro's, I carry a couple 32A CEE to 16A CEE, which for the most part covers all I need. If I need anything more than that, I hire it in. As Bart has mentioned; this stuff is expensive, and personally I can't justify the cost of bigger distro's if they're only going to get used a couple of times per year.
“It’s power, man! Ya cain’t do nothin’ without power!” So said the hillbilly, when the county sheriff caught him climbing a utility pole in order to make an illegal power tap. Bart shows us his very-well-thought-through gig power distro and shares tips he’s learned on how to provide reliable a.c. power at various gigs. The stability and safety of The Sound Couple’s power distro outweighs the cost. That it all fits into two compact lugable cases is a real plus. Thanks, Bart, for sharing this insight into yet another piece of equipment that supports your quest for “professionalism with excellence.”
Thanks Dean! We appreciate your support and hope you enjoyed this latest gear video. We switched things up a bit and after a bit of a technology struggle, is back on track and the next gig video looking good so far! Stay tuned!
Thanks for all this, fascinating stuff! In the UK we're used to 240V 13A power sockets (so a little over 3kW) and for a lot of the shows and bands I work with, that's enough. Particularly if you can get two 13A feeds from a circuit rated at 30A. Putting up, say, a 1-2kW of PA, powering some LED lighting, and supplying power to monitors and the various instruments (effects boards, keyboards etc.) can usually fit easily within the 6kW power budget. And using RCDs/ELCBs on the feed from the wall to handle any problems with wet sockets, pinched cables etc. And in the UK each extension lead or power cable is individually fused at the plug to cut out everything downstream of it if the power drain goes over the 1A/3A/5A/10A/13A level of the individual fuse. I tend to use surge protected extension/distribution leads for most things as nearly everythinig has electronics in it nowadays (I haven't bought myself a Furman yet, but that's coming soon!) And if we're doing a bigger show, we'll hire in someone like you to provide the front of house and any larger lighting requirements and just handle our own mixing, monitors and stage electrics. (unless the venue is providing that sort of thing, then we leave it to them)
It's also convenient those 13 amp plugs generally come with 13 fuses that are never removed (properly downsized) from my understanding. It's great to see a UK comment in here. It's weird enough that I have RUclips trained in the skill of Electrical in the UK, how many hours to classify an expert?
Hi Bart and Stacy, Like the video’s to me it is recognizable the video’s that you make. So I can’t stop watching. keep making them. In Europe there is the C norm it is a big red round connector. If I remember correct it starts at 3x16 amp and the largest I have use was 3x 64 amp. which I always do, I include in the contract that the connection may never be further away than 5 meters. if it is further then the choice is whether the organization arranges the power distribution or I will take it with me but charge extra costs. Those cables are heavy and expensive. I therefore prefer not to carry these cables with me. Greetings Patrick, From the Netherlands
@@thesoundcouple By the wat the voltage is 230 v between fase and neutral. Well the big tip is : tell the organization what you need and have it arranged.
Well, It's called a CEE connector. We use the red ones that are 3 phase + neutral + ground. Across the phases you have 400V and each phase to neutral gives you 230V. We start with a 3 phase 16 amp which can be straight into 16A Schuko's without the need for further use of breakers etcetera. After that you get the most common one which is 32A and after that 63A and 125A. After that we get into twist locks which go up to 400A. And yes, they do get used a lot!
CEE connectors are interesting ones, as there are all sorts of colours and configurations. Not sure about the rest of Europe, but you will see yellow CEE connectors, which are used on building sites mostly... 110V, and I believe are single phase. Green ones I have seen too which I believe are used for Aerospace applications operating at 400Hz. Blue are of course single phase and red are three phase; all of which I have seen as 16A, 32A and 63A and three phase at 125A. I don't encounter powerlocks very often, but I have seen 800A powerlocks.
Really cool setup, I do suggest to place your GFIC units at your distribution center. The reason it to protect the complete cable drop. So if you develop an issue in the cable run the complete circuit is protected from electrocution. You should see all the new electric codes on outdoor boxes it crazy.
In our experience dealing with GFI's at the source, they are not reliable. In two occasions electricians needed to swap them out because they kept tripping.
@@robertnorris4642 We really don't know. Once with our system only and another time we were on the same 50amp breaker as the caterers and they tripped it first. GFI's can be very sensitive.
I still need to build one of these racks. But so far, my system can run from a 20 amp circuit! But, I am adding stage lighting and more speakers, so I know this won't last!
Thankfully modern LED lighting does not have near the power requirements of the old par cans. From our experience, lighting was our biggest consumption of power!
I almost watch all of your videos and thanks for sharing your experience and hard work. Btw I do have a question for you, if I’m in the USA and want to do a small business like you do, Do I need a license or permit?
I’m starting to do the math on a similar sized system… Mind if I ask what is the total wattage power draw your audio system consumes? Thanks for the video!
@@thesoundcoupleThat still helps. If you are never blowing any fuses using 3x amp circuits then you are consuming under 7,200 watts. (Less the 5,400 watts with 3x 15 amp circuits) Anyway, thanks for the great videos. It’s been great to learn with along the journey. Wishing the best of luck!
Great channel - thanks. I would really appreciate some behind the scenes knowledge on how you structure pricing and contracting. Respect that you may not want to share actual prices but your approach would be helpful to me - i.e. your time, gear packages, mileage, wedding vs corporate stuff like that. Do you carry insurance?
We are typically hired by the band to support them. With that, we have a general range that they know they need to be in....and that simply a price that we are comfortable with for the type of events we do that we try to adjust up every year. We also support production for an organization that treats us like a musician and sends us gig offers we can accept or reject. They also know what our range is. And last, we do bid for a few shows a year....We tend to charge premium because they are going to be more work from planning to the day of.
@@thesoundcouple thank you for this info - seems like a healthy live music scene in your area and connections with bands is the core of your gigs. I enjoy your channel and have learned a lot - please keep the great videos coming !
Hi Bart, I enjoy watching your videos. I learn a lot. One question that you probably answered already, but which ipad model do you use? And what memory do think is a good choice for it? Is the model you use sufficient for what you do? Do you think that the brightest new ipad pro 12.9 would be a good choice for pa work, or is an older one just as good in your opinion? Thanks for the info.
A very timely question as we just replaced our iPad Pro gen 2. The iPad worked well and ran the software well...however, it had a major problem for us....we concluded that it would not keep solid wi-fi connections at gigs. It took a lot of time of troubleshooting to finally conclude it was the device, not our router, etc. In some research, I saw some others report similar issues with the gen 2. So, with that, we recently purchased the latest iPad Pro gen 6. From our experience, there isn't a screaming difference in performance between the two in running UC Surface, so you should be fine with any generation. However for us, the big difference now is the gen 6 wi-fi has worked great! As far as memory (I assume you are talking storage), you just need enough to get the job done and you could get the minimum if it's going to be dedicated device.
One question for my Own knowledge. If the feeder circuit is rated for 240/50 (which equates to 120/100) how are you able to get 6x 20 amp circuits and 1x 15amp circuits from it - which if you add it up equals 135 amps… It’s something that has always confused me. Thanks! Great video
That's a great question! Can't provide "pro" answer, but our distro is engineered to be able to take more than it would ever receive....which is good for safety reasons alone. On the flip side, the system never draws at peak voltage/amps. So technically, if we were to max every circuit, our power source would not be able to deliver what the distro box could demand...so technically, you are correct👍
@@thesoundcoupleawesome thanks! Ya I mean most amps at 1/8th power are in clipping so you are right in saying you’ll never hit that limit. Also nice to know that 250/50 is a standard. Useful info. Thanks!
What is the most common type of plug you have to adapt your Nema 14-50 to? I seen some of your adapters were three prong, in the situation are you running the neutral down the ground wire?
Great question! We really don't run into the 3-prongs any longer....which is good. If we do, we will try to find our own ground, such as to the electrical box (via the cover) or somewhere in the panel if possible. Unless you are in an older building that has not had any renovations, we hope to never come across these as they don't adhere to current code....Technically, we have...but they wired one of the hot as ground, so we were only seeing 110v. Not sure if this is technically code, but it's safer and provided us the additional power needed!
@@thesoundcouple thank you for the information. I'm putting together my own power distro and just making sure I have the correct adapters before my first show.
@@Hey_you_guys It probably doesn't hurt to carry a 3 prong 30 or 50 amp plug. But this is where advancing the show comes in handy as we have accumulated our collection in part, out of necessity through planning. However, you never know what sometimes you will come up against. When it comes to generators, Hubble or hard wired connections are more popular. You can check out these two videos for more information on a couple scenarios we have come across. With the generator, we have since purchased the adapter we showed in the other video that would have made the hookup to the generator more efficient. What's even more funny, we did the show again and now they ran power with the 50 amp outlet (they actually hired an electrician to run the wire and do it right). So we were better prepared and didn't need it! We would always choose that over a generator anyway! ruclips.net/video/OuhkRUKI_FE/видео.html. ruclips.net/video/WoQl2PIHUbs/видео.html
The plug is a 50a plug, but the unit is rated for 30a according to the manufacturer. Does it have its own internal protection before it breaks out to the 7 other circuits? I didn't see much info on their webpage about it. Power and a pile of RCF speakers are on my list of expansion projects this year.
Interesting...I have not read the literature. For the unit to support 6, 20 amp and 1, 15 amp circuit, I am not concerned that we are over capacity on the unit with a 50 amp feeder.
Bart. After a year, and buying my own Motion Lab Racpac, I figured the confusion I had out. The model number you posted isn't the one you own, it's the one that was for sale on that other sound co. webpage! The number you posted is a 3 phase 208v unit! You do clearly have a 50a one.
hey bart. fan of your videos. when would you do a video of how, where, and what is connected to your Mixer, router(s), Mics? I would love to see a schematic diagram of it. You promised that you would do a video of it in Winter. It's too cold already!
We go over many aspects of in-ears through out our videos. Not sure if you are asking about a certain aspect or in general. In general, we have the ability to supply wired in-ear mixes if determined during planing. We also work with bands that provide their own system. In recent times, we worked with the band through their transition but using ours and then designing, building and implementing their own system.
For example, let's say you have 10 people playing in a band, all 10 of them actually have ear monitors, can you tell me how you provide that to them? It will be very beneficial for me if you explain it in a video😊
@@sithuminisounds3764 Here are some of videos to check out: ruclips.net/video/wEqm71bnQLA/видео.html ruclips.net/video/LfMVfa1VDtI/видео.html ruclips.net/video/Ofti5pFd_IY/видео.html
Thanks for sharing ...looks pretty well built...can you recommend where I can purchase one of those power distribution unit does Amazon sell the rack mount ones...please advise or share a link...Thanks
We usally use the 3phase + Neutral + GND C-plugs The red once. The one i have is A 32 Amp, and its a 15M 5x 2,5mm2 exstetion going to my home buildt PDU board with 6 4-way outlets each with their own 16 amp breaker and there is 2 16 amp breakers per 32 amp leg for a total of 6, 16 Amp ciricuts. which is plenty for what im currently doing. And thouse breakers and most breakers here in Norway has built in GFI's so no need for external GFI's
Yeah... You do at least need 5G4mm2 cable as 5G2,5mm2 is only allowed to and rated for 16A. Even 5G4mm2 is a bit of a stretch as it is rated for 28A. So if you use you pd at full load... 5G6mm2 would be the best choice.
@@Richard1977 it depends on the type of instslstion and type it seams. cuz the actual exstetion cable is 2.5mm, and that one i bought and that was certified. the actual 3p plug i installed, i used 6mm2 on, since Technicaly the max rating of 2.5 in a thermaly insulated wall, so A1-1, is 20.67 amps,, , 3p beeing 19.07, but cuz of headroom udd need a fuse a bit bellow that, and 4mm only goes to 25 amp so yeah for a max load on that 32 amp i would need 6mm in the instalation which it is and there is also 6mm2 used on the actual PDU board to distribute from the main fuse to the 16 Amp breakers on that board. so atleast as far as the exstetion cable goes thats not on me. cuz i was wondering as well. But my friend which worsk with automation and electrical said it was fine so yeah
@NekoLive Gaming Certifications and regulations are nice but I have seen to many electrical problems like fires, melting connectors and so on to make any compromise on safety. So for me the following applies: -2,5mm2 is maximum rated for 20A so it can never be used for 32A -4mm2 is mostly used on 32A circuits downgraded to 25A. It is however used in mobile settings for 32A circuits that don't see full load. The same applies to 10mm2 vs. 16mm2 in 63A circuits. -6mm2 is the only option for 32A that see full load or are likely to see full load. You also have 1,5mm2 which is technically usable for 16A but not for long term full load and/or long runs. So only up to about 13A maximum continuous use, depending on length. Like I said: Experience. Because when things go wrong, it is a real world of pain and hurt.
@@Richard1977 yeah. everything in this apartement was 1.5mm, but those where hooked to 10 Amp fuses and thouse had to be upgraded, and i allready knew that i would pull up against max load from time to time, so everything got upgraded to 2.5mm2, the stove is on 4mm2 on a 20 amp, and interesting enough the initial electritian has bridged the dishwasher off of the stove fuse, and just installed an separate 16 amp breaker inbetween so that was kinda interesting. And well i do have an 25 amp which is currently running on 2.5mm wire, but the only reason is cuz when stuff gets insitialy powered on it has a spike that goes above 16 amps. but under normal use it lays around 14 amps, but it is gonna be upgraded to 4mm as soon as i get around to buying more wire since i will be putting more servers on that line. And aslo FYI the plug used is a 1phase C-plug for the network rack, so im not gonna pul over 16 amps thru a normal outlet. so yeah
That four pin Range Plug is not the standard . The Standard is the California Twist Plug(Hubbel 6000 series ) on the Motion Lab unit . We do run into the Ranfe Plug still but all of the Fairgrounds are switching over to the Twist Lock Plug to meet City and State Codes . Out here on the west coast we are seeing fewer and fewer of the Range Plugs being used . As far as the Cable you use going to your Distro in up in the air . Some say 6/4 , some say 8/4 and then you have the 6/3 + 8/1 for the ground . With my system I have a 100 amp breaker panel with 12 circuts (Not Code) and run 6/4 to it using 400 amp Cam Locks at the distro end and the California Twist at the power end (It is what I had in stock at the time) .. My System is 16 RCF , HDL20's(8 a side) 8 RCF 8006 Subs , 10 RCF NX15 Monitors , 1 RCF 8004 Sub for Drum mix and whatever the band brings . The Most i have ever draw is 23 Amps per leg . And that was running balls to the Wall . I am building a New Distro as well speak .
Greetings, My first choice was the motion labs distro. Unfortunately the pandemic cause scarcity. I got Furman ASD-120 2.0 6 Circuit Sequencing Power Distribution instead. I haven’t finished building my system yet but power distribution always puzzles me because I’m new to this amount of amperage. Plus I’m unfamiliar with the normal outlets venues may carry. Scenario: my Furman works with the Nema 60amp plug, what do I do at a venue that only has a 30amp? Let’s just say I have all the necessary accessories to plug into the 30 amp. The furman manual is saying it prob won’t turn on if it doesn’t see a certain amount of amperage. Also I know it’s prob 50/50 the venue allow tapping direct into the breaker. Much appreciated, and thanks in advance to anyone who would like to shed some light on my question. Respect
That's a good question. I have contacted Furman for technical questions and they were very knowledgable and helpful. They were able to escalate seamlessly with their engineering for further investigation...not something every company will do for you.
Hello I know my question not related in this topic I use midas m32 with tplink wireless router when people comes the signal between console is losing I need your recomendations.What should I do to control with Ipad?
From your explanation, we have experienced similar if using 2.4 GHz spectrum. We stick to the 5 GHz spectrum and even with that, there still can be problems. We kept on it trying different channels and we finally found the one that consistently worked well. It took us awhile to figure all of this out and it was challenging at times, which we talk about in several of our videos.
Do you have diagrams on how to build these specific plugs? Specifically the Hubbell 50 Amp (14-50) to the plug 14-50. Or refer me to a site that shows that info.
Sometimes I watched videos, where the sound system made weird noises. The reason is an power distributor, that doesn't deliver a sine wave. This electricity is ok for a cement mixer or drill or other tools, but not really for sound equipment. The use of battery powered stuff makes life difficult. The only mixing consoles are a Behringer Flow or a Zoom Livetrak L8, what hasn't a good Equalizer section. And about speakers, there isn't much more than the Bose S01 and the MAUI go. In Europe it's not easy to get a power distributor with chargeable batteries, but a unit, that needs gas and is pretty loud.
@@thesoundcouple Just the Pricing in General like with diffrent packages...So I can have an Idea on How much I should be charging with a rig like this.
In our opinion...pricing can really vary be region and your client. Our rates can vary depending on the types of gigs we are doing and being we are in a larger metro area, we are able to charge more than others just outside of our perimeter, but not as much as a "pro audio company". The gear is really secondary as clients generally don't care how you get the job done unless there is a specific rider you are fulfilling. Rider fulfillment events are not what we do. The gear is a factor, but typically we are being hired for us and our availability. That said, we are down the list of a few clients because they know they will need to pay more than they want to...and that's ok! Please send us an e-mail if you are wanting more info on general pricing as we don't share that on public forums. Thanks!@@Astroboytoy
Oh boy....that's a big question as everyone has different circumstances. For us, we work full time jobs that can help finance some bigger purchases to the business. Starting out, there was some debt acquired for sure.
my brother in sound, for stranded cables like your tail look into "ferrules" and the correct crimp tools. You get significally improved termination over a screw just clamping down on a stranded wire and if you need to swap ends everything stays way nicer. ruclips.net/video/u9jJqSGMB5g/видео.html&pp=ygUPZmVycnVsZXMgYW5pbWFs
I'm always shocked at what chaos the American electrical system is. Not your solution, but the whole system in general. Like why are there 10 different voltage standards? Here in Germany we have a single system of 3~ 230/400 V which is branched of to 3x 1~ 230V most of the time. This is not unique to the event industry, this is in general, except you have large motors or resistive loads (or really big power supplys) The standard single phase connector is the "Schuko", on stage or on trussing you will increasingly find PowerCon or PowerCon True1, especially as an appliance input connector where it replaces the IEC C13 "Kaltgerätestecker". These circuits are 16A and thus 3.65 kW For three-phase power, we use the IEC 60309, know here just as "CEE", brits may know it as "CEE-Form" or Comando socket" (The blue 1~ variant isn't used much here) In some rare instances, a 4-pole (3L+PE), is used, when no neutral is needed (chain hoists in the event industry) Otherwise, the 5-pole 3L+N+PE variant is used, red and with the PE at the 6h position. 16A is aviable in small venues (sometimes even in restaurants) or for sub distribution. This is split up to 3x single phase, 230V This is what we would run onto a truss or into a larger amp rack and if split up into single phase, its 11 kW. 32A is typically aviable in medium sized venues, at around 150 PAX. The most common distro for this is with one 3~16A and 6 1~16A outputs in a 2HE enclosure. The 6 1~ outputs may be paired per circuit breaker or individually. Some really big Amp racks might have such a distro integrated, or smaller dimmer racks, the "typical" 2HE, 6 channel dimmer can actually be equiped with a 32A. This can deliver 22 kW. 63A can be found in venues >400 PAX (16A and 32A are aviable as well in most cases, if theres a 63A) and can deliver 43.5 kW. For medium sized companies, this is just distributed to 2x 32A and run into smaller distros. 125A can be found in large venues (at least 1000PAX+), but is not used that much as its quite bulky. Depending on the lenght of your run, youre looking at 2~2.5 kG/m of cable (15 pound/foot) + connectors. Thats 86 kW. Instead of 125A, we use 200A or 400A of powerlock, a safe version of the american Cam-Lock. with individual, single core, cables. Here youre looking at 138/276 kW respectively. If you need even more power, youll have to get an electrician to hook up the cable directly (or even multible cores per pole in parallel as a single core would be to massive.) Another major difference is RCD protection, it's required on circuits up to 32A, until a few years ago it was for
Thanks for all of the details....it is very interesting how standards can vary across the world. That said...the general consensus of many is between litigation and regulations alone, it is very difficult to conduct business here in the U.S. along with labor and insurance that just keep going up. The building codes (in our area at least) are heavily regulated...rent, utilities, electric, fuel surcharge, delivery charges...the list goes on...permits, taxes, and fees are common on most services and/or purchases, at the local, state and federal levels. Perhaps the issue is lack of enforcement. My guess is that for some reason, portable electrical is somewhat overlooked, or maybe better to say, where electrical codes are not enforced....perhaps the risk/reward of paying the fines, with limited enforcement typically pays off. You get into bigger shows, and I can almost guarantee that all of these types of events are inspected or work is performed by a licensed electrician. Please send us some pics if you like! soundcouple@comcast.net
We seem to have good luck with our external GFI's and that's why we stick to them. We have worked with some built into the distro boxes and they can be a headache. I may be wrong, but I do think that GFIs can become problematic over time or heavy use.
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You have a very well thought out power distribution solution. Obviously a lot of past experience went into the design of it. Thank you for sharing!
Appreciate your insight...you are correct in that. We didn't really cover all of the different hookups you could run into but that could be a video on it's own! The NEMA 14-50R is by bar the most common we see.
Wow. 🤩. Great video , plz only do what u feel comfortable with. Keep growing Sound couple
Thank you for your comment!
Than you so much for the information is pretty basic for me to understand cause I’m starting my new entraining business ❤
You got it! Hope it helps!
In Europe the most common connector for events requiring more amperage than a normal Schuko socket provides is called a CEE connector.
We use the red ones for 3 phase + neutral + ground. Across the phases you have 415V and phase to neutral gives you 230V.
We start with a 3 phase 16 amp connectors which can be distributed straight into 16A Schuko's without the need for further use of breakers etcetera.
After that you get the most common one which is 32A and after that 63A and 125A. After that we get into twist locks which go up to 400A. And yes, they do get used a lot!
The event industry favors rubber and metal distributors, depending on need and location.
It's a bit different than you guys but a lot easier because we do not have the ridiculous amount of different connectors that you guys use.
Thanks Richard...there is so much to learn! It's actually pretty amazing that so many electronics are designed to adapt to the different power systems across the world.
I came here to say the same thing as you. In the UK, we of course have the regular 13A outlet in smaller venues rather than the Schuko. Much of what I do is in the smaller venue where regular UK 13A outlets are all we can expect, so I have a lot of the 13A UK to 16A CEE adaptors. All my my racks are assembled with a 16A CEE inlet (my amplifier rack has two) so I can balance the load across outlets or circuits. When it comes to Distro's, I carry a couple 32A CEE to 16A CEE, which for the most part covers all I need. If I need anything more than that, I hire it in. As Bart has mentioned; this stuff is expensive, and personally I can't justify the cost of bigger distro's if they're only going to get used a couple of times per year.
“It’s power, man! Ya cain’t do nothin’ without power!” So said the hillbilly, when the county sheriff caught him climbing a utility pole in order to make an illegal power tap.
Bart shows us his very-well-thought-through gig power distro and shares tips he’s learned on how to provide reliable a.c. power at various gigs.
The stability and safety of The Sound Couple’s power distro outweighs the cost. That it all fits into two compact lugable cases is a real plus.
Thanks, Bart, for sharing this insight into yet another piece of equipment that supports your quest for “professionalism with excellence.”
Thanks Dean! We appreciate your support and hope you enjoyed this latest gear video. We switched things up a bit and after a bit of a technology struggle, is back on track and the next gig video looking good so far! Stay tuned!
Thanks for all this, fascinating stuff!
In the UK we're used to 240V 13A power sockets (so a little over 3kW) and for a lot of the shows and bands I work with, that's enough. Particularly if you can get two 13A feeds from a circuit rated at 30A. Putting up, say, a 1-2kW of PA, powering some LED lighting, and supplying power to monitors and the various instruments (effects boards, keyboards etc.) can usually fit easily within the 6kW power budget. And using RCDs/ELCBs on the feed from the wall to handle any problems with wet sockets, pinched cables etc. And in the UK each extension lead or power cable is individually fused at the plug to cut out everything downstream of it if the power drain goes over the 1A/3A/5A/10A/13A level of the individual fuse.
I tend to use surge protected extension/distribution leads for most things as nearly everythinig has electronics in it nowadays (I haven't bought myself a Furman yet, but that's coming soon!)
And if we're doing a bigger show, we'll hire in someone like you to provide the front of house and any larger lighting requirements and just handle our own mixing, monitors and stage electrics. (unless the venue is providing that sort of thing, then we leave it to them)
It's also convenient those 13 amp plugs generally come with 13 fuses that are never removed (properly downsized) from my understanding. It's great to see a UK comment in here. It's weird enough that I have RUclips trained in the skill of Electrical in the UK, how many hours to classify an expert?
Wow - appreciate all of the information!
Hi Bart and Stacy,
Like the video’s to me it is recognizable the video’s that you make. So I can’t stop watching. keep making them.
In Europe there is the C norm it is a big red round connector. If I remember correct it starts at 3x16 amp and the largest I have use was 3x 64 amp.
which I always do, I include in the contract that the connection may never be further away than 5 meters. if it is further then the choice is whether the organization arranges the power distribution or I will take it with me but charge extra costs. Those cables are heavy and expensive. I therefore prefer not to carry these cables with me.
Greetings
Patrick,
From the Netherlands
Interesting Patrick...thanks for sharing!
@@thesoundcouple
By the wat the voltage is 230 v between fase and neutral.
Well the big tip is :
tell the organization what you need and have it arranged.
Well,
It's called a CEE connector. We use the red ones that are 3 phase + neutral + ground. Across the phases you have 400V and each phase to neutral gives you 230V.
We start with a 3 phase 16 amp which can be straight into 16A Schuko's without the need for further use of breakers etcetera.
After that you get the most common one which is 32A and after that 63A and 125A. After that we get into twist locks which go up to 400A. And yes, they do get used a lot!
CEE connectors are interesting ones, as there are all sorts of colours and configurations. Not sure about the rest of Europe, but you will see yellow CEE connectors, which are used on building sites mostly... 110V, and I believe are single phase. Green ones I have seen too which I believe are used for Aerospace applications operating at 400Hz. Blue are of course single phase and red are three phase; all of which I have seen as 16A, 32A and 63A and three phase at 125A. I don't encounter powerlocks very often, but I have seen 800A powerlocks.
Glad that you upgraded to the new bistro - great peace of mind, and if there's ever an inspection you're set. the GFCI also great.
It works out really well for us!
Really cool setup, I do suggest to place your GFIC units at your distribution center. The reason it to protect the complete cable drop. So if you develop an issue in the cable run the complete circuit is protected from electrocution. You should see all the new electric codes on outdoor boxes it crazy.
In our experience dealing with GFI's at the source, they are not reliable. In two occasions electricians needed to swap them out because they kept tripping.
@@thesoundcouple What was causing them to trip? I hate the darn things myself.
@@robertnorris4642 We really don't know. Once with our system only and another time we were on the same 50amp breaker as the caterers and they tripped it first. GFI's can be very sensitive.
Thanks for sharing this info it was very helpful
Glad it was helpful!
Thanks for the video on your power system the guy from New Brunswick Canada 🇨🇦
Thank you! Hope you are staying warm!
Thanks for the video! Where can I buy a power distribution box like this?
Please check out the video description.
thank you! such an informative video
Glad it helped you out!
Do you have a video on the home built distribution box?
Sorry, we do not...the one we had we acquired.
Excellent video & power distribution solution! Do you do any metering to balance circuits?
We will do an initial reading on both legs and then spread the load between them. But no, typically nothing after that, but we could!
Thanks this was really helpful.
You're welcome...glad we could help!
I still need to build one of these racks. But so far, my system can run from a 20 amp circuit! But, I am adding stage lighting and more speakers, so I know this won't last!
Thankfully modern LED lighting does not have near the power requirements of the old par cans. From our experience, lighting was our biggest consumption of power!
I almost watch all of your videos and thanks for sharing your experience and hard work.
Btw I do have a question for you, if I’m in the USA and want to do a small business like you do, Do I need a license or permit?
Thanks for the question - no license needed, but it's a good idea to carry insurance. Appreciate you watching!
I’m starting to do the math on a similar sized system… Mind if I ask what is the total wattage power draw your audio system consumes? Thanks for the video!
Sorry....we have never done the math! We can do an average mid show on 3 circuits.
@@thesoundcoupleThat still helps. If you are never blowing any fuses using 3x amp circuits then you are consuming under 7,200 watts. (Less the 5,400 watts with 3x 15 amp circuits) Anyway, thanks for the great videos. It’s been great to learn with along the journey. Wishing the best of luck!
Great channel - thanks. I would really appreciate some behind the scenes knowledge on how you structure pricing and contracting. Respect that you may not want to share actual prices but your approach would be helpful to me - i.e. your time, gear packages, mileage, wedding vs corporate stuff like that. Do you carry insurance?
We are typically hired by the band to support them. With that, we have a general range that they know they need to be in....and that simply a price that we are comfortable with for the type of events we do that we try to adjust up every year. We also support production for an organization that treats us like a musician and sends us gig offers we can accept or reject. They also know what our range is. And last, we do bid for a few shows a year....We tend to charge premium because they are going to be more work from planning to the day of.
@@thesoundcouple thank you for this info - seems like a healthy live music scene in your area and connections with bands is the core of your gigs. I enjoy your channel and have learned a lot - please keep the great videos coming !
@@markemerson3052 Will do Mark...thanks!
Very useful video. 👍👍👍Thx
Thanks!
Is those presonus units in the back there :)
They are! Check out some of our other videos!
Hi Bart, I enjoy watching your videos. I learn a lot. One question that you probably answered already, but which ipad model do you use? And what memory do think is a good choice for it? Is the model you use sufficient for what you do? Do you think that the brightest new ipad pro 12.9 would be a good choice for pa work, or is an older one just as good in your opinion? Thanks for the info.
A very timely question as we just replaced our iPad Pro gen 2. The iPad worked well and ran the software well...however, it had a major problem for us....we concluded that it would not keep solid wi-fi connections at gigs. It took a lot of time of troubleshooting to finally conclude it was the device, not our router, etc. In some research, I saw some others report similar issues with the gen 2. So, with that, we recently purchased the latest iPad Pro gen 6. From our experience, there isn't a screaming difference in performance between the two in running UC Surface, so you should be fine with any generation. However for us, the big difference now is the gen 6 wi-fi has worked great! As far as memory (I assume you are talking storage), you just need enough to get the job done and you could get the minimum if it's going to be dedicated device.
Love this video
Thanks!
One question for my
Own knowledge. If the feeder circuit is rated for 240/50 (which equates to 120/100) how are you able to get 6x 20 amp circuits and 1x 15amp circuits from it - which if you add it up equals 135 amps… It’s something that has always confused me. Thanks! Great video
That's a great question! Can't provide "pro" answer, but our distro is engineered to be able to take more than it would ever receive....which is good for safety reasons alone. On the flip side, the system never draws at peak voltage/amps. So technically, if we were to max every circuit, our power source would not be able to deliver what the distro box could demand...so technically, you are correct👍
@@thesoundcoupleawesome thanks! Ya I mean most amps at 1/8th power are in clipping so you are right in saying you’ll never hit that limit. Also nice to know that 250/50 is a standard. Useful info. Thanks!
What is the most common type of plug you have to adapt your Nema 14-50 to? I seen some of your adapters were three prong, in the situation are you running the neutral down the ground wire?
Great question! We really don't run into the 3-prongs any longer....which is good. If we do, we will try to find our own ground, such as to the electrical box (via the cover) or somewhere in the panel if possible. Unless you are in an older building that has not had any renovations, we hope to never come across these as they don't adhere to current code....Technically, we have...but they wired one of the hot as ground, so we were only seeing 110v. Not sure if this is technically code, but it's safer and provided us the additional power needed!
@@thesoundcouple thank you for the information. I'm putting together my own power distro and just making sure I have the correct adapters before my first show.
@@Hey_you_guys It probably doesn't hurt to carry a 3 prong 30 or 50 amp plug. But this is where advancing the show comes in handy as we have accumulated our collection in part, out of necessity through planning. However, you never know what sometimes you will come up against. When it comes to generators, Hubble or hard wired connections are more popular. You can check out these two videos for more information on a couple scenarios we have come across. With the generator, we have since purchased the adapter we showed in the other video that would have made the hookup to the generator more efficient. What's even more funny, we did the show again and now they ran power with the 50 amp outlet (they actually hired an electrician to run the wire and do it right). So we were better prepared and didn't need it! We would always choose that over a generator anyway! ruclips.net/video/OuhkRUKI_FE/видео.html. ruclips.net/video/WoQl2PIHUbs/видео.html
@@thesoundcouple thank you for the information I really appreciate it. I will check out those video links you posted.
When the bass sucks do the 110v dips to 105v ?
Not typically for us, but we typically have higher voltage when we are running a bigger system.
The plug is a 50a plug, but the unit is rated for 30a according to the manufacturer. Does it have its own internal protection before it breaks out to the 7 other circuits? I didn't see much info on their webpage about it.
Power and a pile of RCF speakers are on my list of expansion projects this year.
Interesting...I have not read the literature. For the unit to support 6, 20 amp and 1, 15 amp circuit, I am not concerned that we are over capacity on the unit with a 50 amp feeder.
Bart. After a year, and buying my own Motion Lab Racpac, I figured the confusion I had out.
The model number you posted isn't the one you own, it's the one that was for sale on that other sound co. webpage! The number you posted is a 3 phase 208v unit!
You do clearly have a 50a one.
@@theflyingalamoyeah the 3 phase unit can run up to 30a per phase so 3 30amps. The 50amp unit can run 50amp per leg at 120v. So technically 2 50amps.
hey bart. fan of your videos. when would you do a video of how, where, and what is connected to your Mixer, router(s), Mics? I would love to see a schematic diagram of it. You promised that you would do a video of it in Winter. It's too cold already!
We have it on our list! We wish there was more time!
How do you handle your ear monitors?
We go over many aspects of in-ears through out our videos. Not sure if you are asking about a certain aspect or in general. In general, we have the ability to supply wired in-ear mixes if determined during planing. We also work with bands that provide their own system. In recent times, we worked with the band through their transition but using ours and then designing, building and implementing their own system.
How to use your mixer for in ear monitors
For example, let's say you have 10 people playing in a band, all 10 of them actually have ear monitors, can you tell me how you provide that to them? It will be very beneficial for me if you explain it in a video😊
@@sithuminisounds3764 Here are some of videos to check out: ruclips.net/video/wEqm71bnQLA/видео.html
ruclips.net/video/LfMVfa1VDtI/видео.html
ruclips.net/video/Ofti5pFd_IY/видео.html
Thanks for sharing ...looks pretty well built...can you recommend where I can purchase one of those power distribution unit does Amazon sell the rack mount ones...please advise or share a link...Thanks
We shared a couple of links in the video description. Also, we have seen there are other brands of units that look identical.
We usally use the 3phase + Neutral + GND C-plugs The red once. The one i have is A 32 Amp, and its a 15M 5x 2,5mm2 exstetion going to my home buildt PDU board with 6 4-way outlets each with their own 16 amp breaker and there is 2 16 amp breakers per 32 amp leg for a total of 6, 16 Amp ciricuts. which is plenty for what im currently doing. And thouse breakers and most breakers here in Norway has built in GFI's so no need for external GFI's
Thanks for sharing! Hopefully those GFI's are behaving for you!
Yeah...
You do at least need 5G4mm2 cable as 5G2,5mm2 is only allowed to and rated for 16A.
Even 5G4mm2 is a bit of a stretch as it is rated for 28A. So if you use you pd at full load...
5G6mm2 would be the best choice.
@@Richard1977 it depends on the type of instslstion and type it seams. cuz the actual exstetion cable is 2.5mm, and that one i bought and that was certified. the actual 3p plug i installed, i used 6mm2 on, since Technicaly the max rating of 2.5 in a thermaly insulated wall, so A1-1, is 20.67 amps,, , 3p beeing 19.07, but cuz of headroom udd need a fuse a bit bellow that, and 4mm only goes to 25 amp so yeah for a max load on that 32 amp i would need 6mm in the instalation which it is and there is also 6mm2 used on the actual PDU board to distribute from the main fuse to the 16 Amp breakers on that board.
so atleast as far as the exstetion cable goes thats not on me. cuz i was wondering as well. But my friend which worsk with automation and electrical said it was fine so yeah
@NekoLive Gaming Certifications and regulations are nice but I have seen to many electrical problems like fires, melting connectors and so on to make any compromise on safety.
So for me the following applies:
-2,5mm2 is maximum rated for 20A so it can never be used for 32A
-4mm2 is mostly used on 32A circuits downgraded to 25A. It is however used in mobile settings for 32A circuits that don't see full load. The same applies to 10mm2 vs. 16mm2 in 63A circuits.
-6mm2 is the only option for 32A that see full load or are likely to see full load.
You also have 1,5mm2 which is technically usable for 16A but not for long term full load and/or long runs. So only up to about 13A maximum continuous use, depending on length.
Like I said: Experience. Because when things go wrong, it is a real world of pain and hurt.
@@Richard1977 yeah. everything in this apartement was 1.5mm, but those where hooked to 10 Amp fuses and thouse had to be upgraded, and i allready knew that i would pull up against max load from time to time, so everything got upgraded to 2.5mm2, the stove is on 4mm2 on a 20 amp, and interesting enough the initial electritian has bridged the dishwasher off of the stove fuse, and just installed an separate 16 amp breaker inbetween so that was kinda interesting. And well i do have an 25 amp which is currently running on 2.5mm wire, but the only reason is cuz when stuff gets insitialy powered on it has a spike that goes above 16 amps. but under normal use it lays around 14 amps, but it is gonna be upgraded to 4mm as soon as i get around to buying more wire since i will be putting more servers on that line. And aslo FYI the plug used is a 1phase C-plug for the network rack, so im not gonna pul over 16 amps thru a normal outlet.
so yeah
That four pin Range Plug is not the standard . The Standard is the California Twist Plug(Hubbel 6000 series ) on the Motion Lab unit . We do run into the Ranfe Plug still but all of the Fairgrounds are switching over to the Twist Lock Plug to meet City and State Codes . Out here on the west coast we are seeing fewer and fewer of the Range Plugs being used . As far as the Cable you use going to your Distro in up in the air . Some say 6/4 , some say 8/4 and then you have the 6/3 + 8/1 for the ground . With my system I have a 100 amp breaker panel with 12 circuts (Not Code) and run 6/4 to it using 400 amp Cam Locks at the distro end and the California Twist at the power end (It is what I had in stock at the time) .. My System is 16 RCF , HDL20's(8 a side) 8 RCF 8006 Subs , 10 RCF NX15 Monitors , 1 RCF 8004 Sub for Drum mix and whatever the band brings . The Most i have ever draw is 23 Amps per leg . And that was running balls to the Wall . I am building a New Distro as well speak .
Thank you for sharing with us what your experience is!
Greetings, My first choice was the motion labs distro. Unfortunately the pandemic cause scarcity. I got Furman ASD-120 2.0 6 Circuit Sequencing Power Distribution instead. I haven’t finished building my system yet but power distribution always puzzles me because I’m new to this amount of amperage. Plus I’m unfamiliar with the normal outlets venues may carry. Scenario: my Furman works with the Nema 60amp plug, what do I do at a venue that only has a 30amp? Let’s just say I have all the necessary accessories to plug into the 30 amp. The furman manual is saying it prob won’t turn on if it doesn’t see a certain amount of amperage. Also I know it’s prob 50/50 the venue allow tapping direct into the breaker.
Much appreciated, and thanks in advance to anyone who would like to shed some light on my question. Respect
That's a good question. I have contacted Furman for technical questions and they were very knowledgable and helpful. They were able to escalate seamlessly with their engineering for further investigation...not something every company will do for you.
Nice! I pushed one of those once 😅
You should totally do it again! 🤣
Hello I know my question not related in this topic I use midas m32 with tplink wireless router when people comes the signal between console is losing I need your recomendations.What should I do to control with Ipad?
From your explanation, we have experienced similar if using 2.4 GHz spectrum. We stick to the 5 GHz spectrum and even with that, there still can be problems. We kept on it trying different channels and we finally found the one that consistently worked well. It took us awhile to figure all of this out and it was challenging at times, which we talk about in several of our videos.
Thank you
You're welcome
Thank you sir
So glad you take the time to watch!
I make those power distribution in a case with wheels
Do you have diagrams on how to build these specific plugs? Specifically the Hubbell 50 Amp (14-50) to the plug 14-50. Or refer me to a site that shows that info.
Sorry, we do not, but pretty certain that the instructions were in the box that the plugs came in.
Sometimes I watched videos, where the sound system made weird noises. The reason is an power distributor, that doesn't deliver a sine wave. This electricity is ok for a cement mixer or drill or other tools, but not really for sound equipment.
The use of battery powered stuff makes life difficult. The only mixing consoles are a Behringer Flow or a Zoom Livetrak L8, what hasn't a good Equalizer section. And about speakers, there isn't much more than the Bose S01 and the MAUI go.
In Europe it's not easy to get a power distributor with chargeable batteries, but a unit, that needs gas and is pretty loud.
Thank you for your comments and sharing your experiences!
The phrase "volts of power" is not mathematically supportable, as power is current times voltage. Ad time, and you get Energy.
Ahhhh....yes, it is likely that specific terms can be generalized at times which to the trained ear, can be hard to listen too!
What I wanna know is the pricing of your service..
Are looking to hire us? Contact us via e-mail!
@@thesoundcouple Just the Pricing in General like with diffrent packages...So I can have an Idea on How much I should be charging with a rig like this.
In our opinion...pricing can really vary be region and your client. Our rates can vary depending on the types of gigs we are doing and being we are in a larger metro area, we are able to charge more than others just outside of our perimeter, but not as much as a "pro audio company". The gear is really secondary as clients generally don't care how you get the job done unless there is a specific rider you are fulfilling. Rider fulfillment events are not what we do. The gear is a factor, but typically we are being hired for us and our availability. That said, we are down the list of a few clients because they know they will need to pay more than they want to...and that's ok! Please send us an e-mail if you are wanting more info on general pricing as we don't share that on public forums. Thanks!@@Astroboytoy
How do you get te money to start
Oh boy....that's a big question as everyone has different circumstances. For us, we work full time jobs that can help finance some bigger purchases to the business. Starting out, there was some debt acquired for sure.
my brother in sound, for stranded cables like your tail look into "ferrules" and the correct crimp tools. You get significally improved termination over a screw just clamping down on a stranded wire and if you need to swap ends everything stays way nicer. ruclips.net/video/u9jJqSGMB5g/видео.html&pp=ygUPZmVycnVsZXMgYW5pbWFs
Hey - that is really neat! Thanks for sharing this!
Hopefully you don't plug in and unplug a 50 amp plug with all the breakers on.
We leave the breakers on but nothing is plugged in until we test it. You will see this in many of our videos.
I'm always shocked at what chaos the American electrical system is. Not your solution, but the whole system in general.
Like why are there 10 different voltage standards?
Here in Germany we have a single system of 3~ 230/400 V which is branched of to 3x 1~ 230V most of the time.
This is not unique to the event industry, this is in general, except you have large motors or resistive loads (or really big power supplys)
The standard single phase connector is the "Schuko", on stage or on trussing you will increasingly find PowerCon or PowerCon True1, especially as an appliance input connector where it replaces the IEC C13 "Kaltgerätestecker". These circuits are 16A and thus 3.65 kW
For three-phase power, we use the IEC 60309, know here just as "CEE", brits may know it as "CEE-Form" or Comando socket"
(The blue 1~ variant isn't used much here)
In some rare instances, a 4-pole (3L+PE), is used, when no neutral is needed (chain hoists in the event industry)
Otherwise, the 5-pole 3L+N+PE variant is used, red and with the PE at the 6h position.
16A is aviable in small venues (sometimes even in restaurants) or for sub distribution. This is split up to 3x single phase, 230V
This is what we would run onto a truss or into a larger amp rack and if split up into single phase, its 11 kW.
32A is typically aviable in medium sized venues, at around 150 PAX. The most common distro for this is with one 3~16A and 6 1~16A outputs in a 2HE enclosure. The 6 1~ outputs may be paired per circuit breaker or individually. Some really big Amp racks might have such a distro integrated, or smaller dimmer racks, the "typical" 2HE, 6 channel dimmer can actually be equiped with a 32A. This can deliver 22 kW.
63A can be found in venues >400 PAX (16A and 32A are aviable as well in most cases, if theres a 63A) and can deliver 43.5 kW. For medium sized companies, this is just distributed to 2x 32A and run into smaller distros.
125A can be found in large venues (at least 1000PAX+), but is not used that much as its quite bulky. Depending on the lenght of your run, youre looking at 2~2.5 kG/m of cable (15 pound/foot) + connectors. Thats 86 kW.
Instead of 125A, we use 200A or 400A of powerlock, a safe version of the american Cam-Lock. with individual, single core, cables. Here youre looking at 138/276 kW respectively.
If you need even more power, youll have to get an electrician to hook up the cable directly (or even multible cores per pole in parallel as a single core would be to massive.)
Another major difference is RCD protection, it's required on circuits up to 32A, until a few years ago it was for
Thanks for all of the details....it is very interesting how standards can vary across the world. That said...the general consensus of many is between litigation and regulations alone, it is very difficult to conduct business here in the U.S. along with labor and insurance that just keep going up. The building codes (in our area at least) are heavily regulated...rent, utilities, electric, fuel surcharge, delivery charges...the list goes on...permits, taxes, and fees are common on most services and/or purchases, at the local, state and federal levels. Perhaps the issue is lack of enforcement.
My guess is that for some reason, portable electrical is somewhat overlooked, or maybe better to say, where electrical codes are not enforced....perhaps the risk/reward of paying the fines, with limited enforcement typically pays off. You get into bigger shows, and I can almost guarantee that all of these types of events are inspected or work is performed by a licensed electrician.
Please send us some pics if you like! soundcouple@comcast.net
Holy fuck, as a european your entire power distrobution seems like a total nightmare
A lot of this is likely due to the fact that we have two voltage standards.
"The SC what we use" FFS! The SC THAT we use! DUH 🤦♂️
Uhhhh....that's what our channel is about? Hope your day gets better!
I HATE GFI PLUGS AND AVOID THEM AT ALL COST....
We seem to have good luck with our external GFI's and that's why we stick to them. We have worked with some built into the distro boxes and they can be a headache. I may be wrong, but I do think that GFIs can become problematic over time or heavy use.
Where can I buy it?
There should be some links in the description for similar offerings.