She outlived her whole family and was confined to her chambers to the rest of her days, often weeping, talking to herself and hating the colour green until the Winter fever took her out. How ironic that it was Rhaenyra’s and Daemon’s son who spared her (with a sprinkle of Stark mercy)
@@jacob7818He is talking about Cregan Stark, who ruled in the iron throne for a brief period in the end of the dance, serving essentially as a regent for Aegon the younger, and punishing those he considered to be responsible to conspire for Aegon's death( the son of Alicent), and also punishing the ones who usurped Rhaynera's throne, which includes Alicent herself.
@@isabellajensen9480 that’s not who saved her son tho. That would be larys strong actually who takes them and plans to make Aegon the younger the heir. Nothing to do with starks
This made me think that Alicent had a crush on Criston Cole, albeit back then one-sided. Now that she's doing the 'dirty' with Criston, she probably can kind of understand the arrangement Rhaenyra had with Harwin.
@@EgonsraadThe books are a biased account. Alicent having a relationship with Criston was totally inside the realm of possibility and is a valid discussion point.
@@emperorconstantinexipalaio4121 it being _possible_ within the bounds of F&B doesn't explain why idiots pretend like it's certain and wasn't just some shit ryan condom made up for drama
And in the end, she outlived nearly everyone in the Dance, left to brood alone in the Red Keep for the rest of her life, and then died of Westerovid-19
Cersei is way worse than show-Alicent. Cersei would NEVER grieve for the death of her enemmy's son like Alicent did for Lucerys. Cersei would have zero remorse about what she has done and would not reflect on her mistakes like Alicent is doing this season. Alicent is becoming self-aware, while Cersei was delusional to the end.
But Alicent wasn’t grieving. Whatever “grief” she showed was a ploy to make her look better bc her son killed Lucerys. If Alicent was truly repentant she would’ve imprisoned her kinslaying son, instead she said “oops my bad” gave Rhaenyra a piece of paper from a book they read two decades ago, and then went on about her day.
in some ways you can argue that is what makes Alicent worse. Cersei is a monster. Her nature meant she never could be a good mother even when she tried. but unlike Cersie Alicent isn't an inherent monster. She had the capacity of being a good mother, could have raise her children right but she didn't and as a result of how she raised them she doomed them all.
@@sfsin3380 I don't see how Alicent could be worse when she has empathy / regrets / is capable to reflect on herself while Cersei is an absolute monster in every way. Alicent in the show never showed the same degree of cruelty as Cersei. Really, Cersei is a wicked woman on par with the likes of Ramsay Bolton. How could Alicent be worse exactly ? Actually Cersei would absolutely destroyed Alicent
@@qcosteur It's a basic philosophical debate is it worse to be born evil or choose evil. Cersei was born evil she was always going to be a bad person and a terrible mother because that was her nature. Alicent was not born evil she choose to be a bad mother. So who is worse the woman who was born evil and followed her nature or the woman who choose the wrong path and can recognize that but doesn't change?
Alucent is worse she was never ever truly Rhaenyra’s friend Otto put her up to that also. Rhaenyra was a friend to Alicent she gave her too much grace when Alicent gave her none. With cersai you know what you’re getting at face value. Alicent was dangerous, sneaky and unpredictable.
The Hightower family is a classic example of the cycle of mental-emotional abuse. Also, Alicent reminds me of Serena Joy in "The Handmaid's Tale". She helped bring this extremely patriarchal society into power, thinking they'd reward her with power of her own, in gratitude for this help. Instead, all she did was further enable and empower her own oppression. It came back to bite her, just like it did with Alicent. (7/27/2024)
Yep, head of the leopards eating faces party surprised when the same uncontrollable wild animal they've been sicking on everyone else turns around and eats their own face.
Otto Hightower is the main culprit responsible for how his grandchildren turned out. He was so obsessed with gaining power and getting his blood to sit on the throne that he corrupted and used his daughter to manipulate Viserys (who later uncovers his plot) so that Viserys would fall in love with her and marry her. Otto made Alicent believe Rhaenyra would kill her and her children if she ever became crowned and Alicent made her children believe Rhaenyra would kill them all, so if it weren't for Otto being paranoid and corrupt, the Dance of the Dragons might not have ever happened.
And also, how did Otto corrupt alycent to marry Viserys? Viserys Lost his wife, he was sad and lonely, the young and beautiful alicent shows up to give him emotional support and give him some love, by advise of her dad, yes, but it's not like she did something evil, she was in the right place in the right time, Otto a real G, saw the opportunity and took it.
Aegon was a child that needed extra caring because you saw how spoiled he was becoming and love deprived he was with all the pressure he was put on as a child that his half sister might kill him one day for simply existing. Aemond was a child who needed extra caring because you saw lonely he was and how bullied he was. Haelaena was a child that needed extra caring because you saw how different she was. They all needed unconditional love and extra care like any child does but Viserys and Alicent couldn't bother. Viserys busy with his legos and Alicent busy with making Rhaenyra's life miserable.
@@latishabuckner8231 yeah and it pisses me off. He marries a girl, has sex with her, creates four babies and essentially ignores them and never gives them any love. Does he even remember who the fuck Daeron is? In the banquet scene where he says that all the people I love are here today and Daeron is not even present at the table.
I do hate how they portrayed Viserys' relationship with his other children in the show. In the book, Viserys spent a lot of his free time with his children and grandchildren. He even had his sons and Rhaenyra's sons hangout and train together. He wanted his family to be a family and get along. He didn't play favorites like the show leaned into. Daerion, who is the same age as Jace, had the same wet nurse making them 'milk brothers'. Unfortunately, Alicent's animosity towards Rhaenyra corrupted him against Rhaenyra's children.
@@latishabuckner8231i think after aemmas death he stopped caring 😭🫠 he only cared for rhaynera after their moms death which rhaynera blamed him forz and viseys felt responsible for her death as well.
Well, there was a chance, that's why Rhaenyra was so bratty when Aegon was born. She was afraid Viserys would push her aside for her brother and that's why he's been pushing her to get married (to send her away, remember at their interaction then?). Male progenitor is how they used to do it then. Viserys was considering it too (replacing Rhaenyra) in a way, I think that was the episode when they were celebrating Aegon's 2nd nameday. Viserys was drunk by the fire and Alicent actually told him that his decision to name Rhaenyra as heir was the right one (this was pre-competition between Rhaenyra and Alicent). Only a few years before, they selected Viserys instead of Rhaenys, nay Rhaenys was not even considered...it was Laenor was considered in the running to be the next king after Jaeharys which proved that they're partial for male heir.
Should’ve ditched Otto for Rhaenyra. What an actual fool. Her and her children would have been honored and protected in Rhaenyra’s Court and she would have wielded more outsized influence. Instead she helped start a civil war that killed her entire family and doomed her to a slow death by escalating insanity.
For Alicent…I don’t think she didn’t want her to rule because she was a woman…I think it was because of jealousy. Absolutely she raised her sons to hate their sister and didn’t show them much love. She got from them what she put into them. Despite Rhaenyra’s faults, the one thing she can definitely be proud of is the way her sons turned out. She was a very loving and caring mother.
In both the serie and the book she reaped what she sowed, I love the character and I feel bad for her, but in the end, just like the saying goes, karma has no mercy. But it also goes without saying that both she and Aegon, Helaena and Daemon are examples of children who are born and grow up without love, a perfect contrast to Raenyra and her children who did grow up with it, just like Daeron.
Exactly, the people around Daeron actually gave him some consideration and constructive attention and lessons and look! The kid would make a great king.
@@visionofsolace8961 Gwayne Hightower was right: keep your highborn kids away from the Red Keep! Cause for all its privileges, they're gonna be raised by people who only see them as chestpieces!
Lol I love comments like this proving my point that most of this show's fans are just idiots who honestly don't deserve anything. You just want to watch misery porn and get off to Alicent's suffering because she dared to have motivations that go against the main characters. Get that shit out of here lmao, you're pathetic.
Show Alicent was a child mother. She was in no way a perfect mother, or even a good one, but I can’t say I put 100% of the blame on her when she was forced to raise children when she was a child herself. Viserys was also their father. He could have put effort into raising Aemond & Aegon to be good men.
I get what you're saying, but she still continued to be a sh*t mom after she and her children grew up. Also, Aemma was also a child mother. Married at 11 and had Rhaenyra at 15, but she had miscarriages before Rhaenyra was born. She was still a decent mother to Rhaenyra. Alicent put too much energy into hating Rhaenyra and not enough into loving her own kids.
@@sushmitaraodesaraju6330 Aemma also had the benefit of Viserys being a loving father to Rhaenyra & was actually present to parent her lol. Viserys didn’t give af about his kids with Alicent. Alicent’s circumstances don’t excuse her being a bad mother, but I do think it helps you understand it a little better. I like a flawed character.
Your point has some merit, but I disagree at least partially on several issues. First of all, Cersei did not "poison" Joffrey in the sense that it wasn't solely because of Cersei that Joffrey turned out like he did, like sure, she certainly contributed, but the kid was torturing and killing cats since he was little (early sign of conduct disorder, which given his later behavior as a young man suggests antisocial personality disorder), dude was gonna be a bad apple with or without Cersei, she just made it worse. The other thing is that Alicent did not cultivate resentment against Rhaenyra and her children solely because Rhaenyra was a woman, it is perfectly clear and stated that that was always an excuse use for the public by most who actually cared to take a side early or late, rather she did it more due to personal issues with her as a person (valid or not depends on who you ask) AND fear as to what their children's position and situation would be with Rhaenyra as heir and then queen since she lost trust in her. Again, whether or not she was justified isn't the point, but rather claiming that it was solely about Rhaenyra's sex means you're ignoring almost everything related to the relationship between the 2 of them both before and after they had their falling out.
In this world, incest leads to madness at times. Joffrey is probably born bad, because of that. A choice made entirely by Cersei and Jaime. Also, Cersei was a bad seed herself, having drowned her best friend as a child.
You know, periods and ending sentences exist for a reason. It makes for an easier read. Saying Alicent "couldn't trust Rhaenyra" is a bad excuse. In the book, Alicent is blatantly trying to usurp Rhaenyra as heir and plotted with her father for years to usurp the throne. The show changes that, except the excuse of "well if Rhaenyra lied about her virtue, then she will DEFINITELY kill my children". Which is hilarious given the fact Rhaenyra wasn't worried about her half-siblings. In both book and show, Rhaenyra is shown to want to forgive Aegon for what happened and accept her half-siblings into her court. Her only problem at that point was with Otto for committing treason. That is probably the only real issue that Rhaenyra and her half- siblings would disagree on, given that Otto is their grandfather. Her best bet was to give him an option: death or take the Black.
Joffrey was the product of a narcissistic, cruel woman, he was always going to be what he was. Alicent poisoned her children because she was selfish, greedy and jealous, you can argue against that, but it remains to be true, as Rhaenyra never gave any indication that she would become a threat to her siblings, in fact it was Alicent who was a threat to Rhaenyra's sons and made her children threats to them as well.
An heir and a spare mentality, focus solely on first born. Same as all the other high houses did. Sent to Hightower to be maesters, trained to be: fighters, swordsmen, or the “Great” houses to be knights. Seems the wards we witness fair far better than those kept at home. Mothers dig their own children’s graves in Westeros, beginning right after birth.
Alicent is the predecessor to Cersei. Both were used by their fathers, desires power but are inapt to rule, the women lost their mothers young, they struggled in motherhood, and both overestimated their strength and womanly charms. Alicent AND Otto doomed her children. Blind ambition, greed, jealousy, and pure ignorance fueled flames of hate and discord that led to a war they knowingly preceded in without war experience, real allies, or qualified candidates for the throne. I have no empathy for Alicent because like Cersei they failed to put their children first when they needed loving, caring mothers. Aegon II and Aemond are every bit of Alicent's negative and toxic creations. She willfully placed those boys in Cole's hands. Cole trained hate, spoke hate, and led the boys directly to their demises. Tragic.
It's still kind of weird to me that nobody's willing to be compassionate about this character given the things that she has to go through. Not to mention that Rhaenyra is pretty spoiled since she has promised the crown and clings on to it like nobody's business, Because it's pretty much the only thing she actually cares about, What she feels she is owed. And don't even get me started on the fact that Rhaenyra pretty much has the same level of hypocrisy; Trying so hard to compete with men for the throne, Only to throw other women under the bus when she gets it, By not allowing them to have equal rights. I feel like this show is intentionally biased, and it is supposed to make you second-guess the main character. You're not necessarily supposed to buy into her side immediately, You're supposed to question it, Because it definitely feels like propaganda. They almost never talk about how it affects the people that belong in those kingdoms. The focus is entirely on the fighting for the crown, An inherently selfish endeavor.
I mean welcome to Game of Thrones, the whole series is about how when the "powerful" clash it's everyone who suffers, especially the common folk, it's even said in the original show and books "The smallfolk pray rain, a good harvest, a summer that never ends, and to be left alone while the highlords play their game of thrones... they never are." The Black's and Greens, including Alicent and Rhaenyra, don't get any sympathy from me because most of them are pretty terrible people.
Besides you're forgetting that the whole plot was a well thought out plan by Otto as in books it's quite mysterious as to why all of Aema children especially male died early or were still born given that the maesters work for the Hightower, Secondly Otto made sure for alicent to be Wed to viserys following his wife death and push daemon from the position of heir to install Rhaenyra as a way of eliminating daemon knowing full well that he would have alicent son either be chosen to be the next heir or usurp the throne. The marriage to laenor a gay and infertile man was also his idea as both harwin and daemon gave Rhaenyra children yet leanor despite trying could not forcing Rhaenyra to get children else were. This was a conspiracy that viserys and daemon failed to realize. Most of the things Rhaenyra is blamed for were made possible due to a situational plan
Alicent was manipulated by her father. Otto was the one who put the thought in her head. Alicent is a fool and has no backbone to stand up for herself. Alicent and Otto were the ones who start the dance of dragons. Otto used Alicent to seduce Visery after the death of Rhaenyra’s mother.
How exactly is this what she deserved? She was married off to a man who mistreated her, wrongfully refused to acknowledge their son's birthright, and left their kids and her vulnerable, simply because he didn't lover her or her kids. Insane take.
She definitely not as psychotic as Cersei but book alicent is really evil. And horrific. Especially when the winter wolves come. I like the show version but the book version is one of my most hated characters in fiction. Cersei’s chapters were fun as hell to read though 😂
this is genuinely kinda of stupid. Alicent never raised her kids to usurp Rhaenyra, sure maybe resent their sister, but that was more projection than anything else. “But she said that Rhaenyra would kill them!??” She isn’t wrong in believing Rhaenyra would have them killed, esp when the two are estranged friends who constantly tried to get back at the other. Alicent backed her claim to the things until Viserys died, when started to spout his geriatric nonsense to a woman who had no idea that he meant Aegon the conqueror. She took part in the usurping because she genuinely believed in her naivety that Viserys wanted Aegon in the throne in his final moments. We literally see her realize she fucked up in season 2, and she acknowledges that (ofc through the kind of trash writing). We also see that Alicent didn’t even know the small council was planning to usurp Rhaenyra. Team Green did usurp Rhaenyra because she was a woman, but Alicent’s personal reason to take part was not based on gender but through a very misfortunate misunderstanding. That doesn’t get rid of the fact that she still participated in one of the most blatant acts of misogyny, but again, she didn’t take part because Rhaenyra was a woman.
Also Alicent had to rule that fuck ass kingdom ( w/ the help of her father) while her decaying hag if a husband was rotting in bed, we see Gwayne mention that it’s not entirely Alicent’s fault her kids became the way they are but the entire atmosphere of Kings Landing, so don’t go talking about “because Daeron was far away from his mother-!” She was a barely twenty when she had him be for real!!
She’s NOT capable of ruling. That’s the whole point of the show. Trying to change centuries of traditional succession to appease his daughter’s pouting destroyed their dynasty.
@@akwasiampofo5565 She is still the most capaple, she was in many small councils, tried to hold the realm together and only attack because there is no other way
@@romanoffsson again, it doesn’t dispute the fact that she has never ruled. Sitting at the council isn’t the same as ruling. She hasn’t ruled before, that’s just factual.
I disagree. I felt that she was scared for the life of her children. That if Rhaenyra became queen they might kill her children. That was what Otto instilled to her.
This is why I think the show could've went the route in which she planned this aftrr havibg her first born and naming him aegon not by a miatake or mishearibg of words from viserys... because he wasn't gonna change his mind but show is right that she put them on throne for multiple reasons because their wasn't 1 good reason to USURP... but that they wanted to keep power....
@@mcbeaty3971 Usurp what was her birthright as heir apparent, named by the reigning king and sworn to by the Lords of the Seven Kingdons? Quit playing with the Princess of Dragonstone.
Alicent did not doubt rhanaeyra, a women's ability to rulerule. Instead, Alicent fell to her father's continuous gaslighting, that rhaenyra wud inevitably kill aegon n Aemond to eliminate any competition to d throne. It is when Alicent believed her son's lives to be in danger dat she finally turned against rhaenyra. Of course, she turned into an abominable mother to her own kids n became d very monster she THOUGHT she was fighting ( rhaenyra).
The show runner is such a biased mf, polarising the fanbase for higher ratings, making it all about good vs evil, the patriarchy, which was a given back in the day anyway, and modern day feminism, not the point of the book though, the real story is about how thirst for power can tear entire families apart, no one is blameless. Instead of bringing GRRMs true story to the screen, they made sure the audience gets very little chance to connect with the greens, by turning Aegon into a rapist, downplaying Blood&Cheese which is a game changer in the book, giving Aegon's special moments with Sunfyre to Rhaenyra and Syrax, turning Rhaenyra into a dull goody two shoes protagonist, who only wants the throne because of the prophecy if you can believe that, 🤦♀️ and so much more. Anyway, blaming Alicent solely for her sons upbringing is unacceptable, what about the absentee father? Ok, her sons were spoiled rotten, but most royals usually are, and why compare them to Rhaenyra's boys, well, she pampered them a lot out of guilt, since she knew that bringing bastards into the world made them a target and the boys were well mannered and humble because they were aware that everyone knew the truth about them. Crazy how the show runner is constantly breaking the lore for the worse to push his own narrative, makes HOTD seem like pure fanfiction at times. I know they will try to make up for it in the last episodes, but this season was boring af especially Daemon's storyline. To be honest, I fast forward all Rhaenyra and Deamon's scenes, when I rewatch an episode and only pay attention to the scenes with the greens, they make S2 watchable, brilliant acting and great dialogue I must admit.
@@romanoffsson Not at all according to GRRMs story, Rhaenyra being the protagonist and actually a Mary Sue with a divine purpose is just a show thing, book Rhaenyra is as bad as the rest of the players, the 'Rhaenyra show' is not even loosely based on the Fire&Blood book at this point, only the names and places are there and some of the events significantly changed for the worse.
@@mariadimitroulia645I am saying that she is the protagonist in the show wich she is, she has 1h30 minutes more than alicent and 3h more than aegon, of course the show is biased for her
@@romanoffsson Should not be called HOTD then but 'The Rhaenyra Show', since the it’s bad fan fiction, it never was about Rhaenyra and Alicent anyway, Aegon and Rhaenyra were the main players, if only they had stayed a little more faithful to the source material.
Alicent diddnt raise her children to hate and want to usurp rheanyra purely because she was a woman though, I don't know where people get that from? She never wanted aegon to be king and was always in favour of rheanyra being queen but her fathers constant manipulations throughout her young life slowly convinced her that the realm would reject rheanyra and she would be forced into killing her children to destroy their claim. That is the main reason why alicent wanted aegon to be king.
Cersei, for as deplorable as she was, loved her children. Alicent, however, only seemed to love Helaena and the idea of her son Daeron. Ironically, the one she had the least contact with was probably the least screwed up.
I honestly feel a little sorry for all of Alicent’s children, even Aegon and Aemond. From the very start, all of them were deprived of proper parental love because their father always favored his eldest and was getting closer to death every year and their mother had them when she was way too young, so she never knew how to be an affectionate parent herself. Sadly, those children were doomed the moment they were born.
Rhaenyra also had her kids were super young ! Stop making excuses for the Hightowers. Where did you see Viserys not liking his other kids. It was never showed to us. If you are talking about the eye situation. What was Viserys supposed to do ? Please let's call a dog a dog (as we say in french)
@@ssissigui8846 The difference with Rhaenyra is that she had two co parents to care for her sons in Laenor and Harwin. And her children were born out of love with a man of her choice. Alicent in the other hand no one to help her with her children and they were born out of duty and slight marital r*pe rather than love.
Idk at least show some care for Aemond reprimand lucerys for almost murdering his son even just a little courtesy lol. You got to be illiterate to believe that viserys liked his other kids. @@ssissigui8846
@@garlantyrell6368Alicent had plenty of help. Didn't you see all of the maids? If you mean a suitable co-parent, then yes; the show kind of made it seem like Viserys ignored his other children. In the book, Viserys was a very active parent in his children's lives. However, Alicent's vindictive nature is what corrupted her children against Rhaenyra; as she plotted with Otto to usurp the throne for Aegon. If Alicent didn't have Viserys' help, then she xould have turned to her father for help; except HE was the one who was the bad father.
@@garlantyrell6368 the rape part isnt true in the books... the show really showed it wrong because when Vyseris married Alicent he was 29 and Alicent was 21... Show kinda distorted the reality
It's not about gender or values or gender relations, it's about family, blood, loyalty and allegiance. She wanted her offspring to rule, not someone else's, and expected her sons to reward that once in power. As far as mental and conceptual frameworks go, that makes perfect sense. It's probably even been done in the real world. Most of human history and motivation has not been an argument about abstract principles, still less about the ones we care about now.
This is a lot of cap imo. She was raised to believe Rhaenyra would be forced to eliminate her sons. As to why they are all a holes in except helaena is most likely because they weren’t raised like at all. Past pre-adolescents. She was busy ruling with Otto, leaving her kids to be raised in probably the worst possible place while Daeron got to live in basically a religious boarding school. People act like alicent is some cartoon villain. Not to mention aegon and aemond were most likely raised by Criston Cole in their teens, who is the most stable person either.
And her sons still died, but because of her. Helaena ended her life cuz she could no longer live in such pain and suffer. It wasn't Rhaenyra who killed them, but Alicent herself
Otto shares everything said about Alicent here, but everything is still correct: She believed Rhaenyra would kill her half brother She believed Aegon had to be king She was a terrible mother that grew two terrible children And was an absolute idiot when she thought she may take the power while Aegon was injured despite years of accurate selection of the most misogynistic people possibly for the small council. Of course she was a victim herself of her father scheming. She was put in 35-yo Vyseris bedroom at 16 by her father, and used left right and center by Otto, who was the worst man possible. But you are guilty of your crimes even if you have a bad upbringing
Because they weren't Robert's children and born out of love instead of duty. I can't bring myself to say that cersei is better than Alicent in pursuing power.
Generally there are few people that would pass as moral or heroic characters in Martin’s writing. Most are capable of being complete bastards. However, Alicent in on the list of simply despicable.
In the book? Most definitely. Fits the evil petty stepmother trope to a T, even if Rhaenyra is no saint either. In the show? I wouldn't go that far. Maybe she can be infuriating or unlikable during her worst moments, but she certainly has nuance, a conscience, and her frustrations come from a somewhat understandable place if one bothers to give her the benefit of the doubt. She is both a victim of the system that surrounded her, as well as of her own actions and the consequences thereof, so the package includes both personal agency as well as tragic observations as to what the lot in life was for a woman like her. And yes, that can apply even to "privileged" aristocracy like her, not just commoners, it is simply a different type of difficulty.
@@maxi1ification Exactly. Alicent in the show is very different. I like her becoming self-aware, reflecting on her own mistakes and realizing how she could have done things better. She clearly regrets all of this.
This comment is dumb. If you mean book Alicent, we know barely anything about her so your words are empty. Calling show Alicent just means you can't be trusted to be rational.
it wasn't because she was a woman. otto convinced her then she convinced them reyrey would kill them. only time ive been able to correct something here.
The boys didn't even want to fight over the thrown until she got it in their heads their sister would have them all killed if she won. Aegon never wanted to be king until his and his children's lives were seemingly put at risk. Glad she got the ending she deserved; alone and miserable
Rhaenyra isn't a threat? Lmao what?Her lie was the reason Alicent's father had to leave, she lied to Alicent, she was literally all about "They must be questioned strictly" for Aemond rightfully accusing her sons of being bastards when he literally lost an eye. She cared more about her sons being insulted than her brother literally losing an eye. So ofoourse Rhaenyra is a threat. She might not have actively plotted against them but she would always chose herself and her sons even if it meant hurting her brothers as we can clearly see in the show. Maybe today she hasn't done anything but when the boys will be used as leverage(which WILL happen even if its not by the Greens) to threaten her reign she will surely do it. Yall just linear minded and blindly support Team Black.
The problem is Alicent did not accept the fact she is indeed the Mother of 4 children and did not provide them the maternal Love or guidance they needed even though it would have helped her in the long run.
I think this is a bit unfair. Male primogeniture is deeply ingrained in Westerosi culture (except in Dorne). To almost everyone, bypassing the king's brother Daemon in favour of Rhaenyra was awkward, but they could go along with the idea; but bypassing a son to favour a daughter feels outright "unconstitutional". Many lords were not going to accept that, and so Aegon and his brothers were always going to be threats to Rhaenyra's rule since they are seen as more "legitimate" to sit on the Iron Throne, especially with the rumors of bastardy of her own sons. Even if Aegon publicly stated "I am loyal to my sister the Queen and want nothing to do with the crown", he could still be instrumentalized by any revolting faction in the realm. Whenever someone powerful grew discontent with the queen, they had the option to overthrow her to install one of her half-brothers in her stead. That's the conversation that Otto and Alicent had on that rainy day, and later Alicent and Aegon: "Your _very existence_ is the challenge [to Rhaenyra]". Rhaenyra is the one bending the law and customs to pretend to the crown. Her claim will always be weaker, so the wise thing for her to do would be to make her rivals disappear. Either her brothers would be met with "hunting accidents" and "choking on pigeon pie", or she would have to instead to have Helaena, her children and Daemon killed in order to marry Aegon and join their claims. Alicent was merely trying to protect her children. At the very least, if Viserys was not going to change his mind about leaving the throne to Rhaenyra, he should have had the lords come back to renew their oath of allegiance to her, including Aegon, Aemond and Daerron who should have been made up publicly pledge their fealty to her as future queen! He knew his health was declining and he was about to die. He could have foreseen this. Of course, and even stronger course of action would have been too call another Great Council to settle the issue. But then they would probably have picked Aegon anyway. And it would have created a dangerous precedent to let the lords select the monarch twice in a row; they could get used to this and start to see it as their prerogative to systematically chose the king from amongst the available candidates in the royal family. That might be giving them too much power and lead to corruption and to the selection of weak kings easily swayed, pressured or overthrown.
The kings word is *law* though. He should have abdicated while he was still alive and let her rule and taken control of his family, he should have never been king and rhaneys would have made an excellent queen. And brought his wife to heal and then I like the rest of your suggestions. However, she was usurped not the other way around but that can argued too since they had that council. So it’s circular. But good comment tbh. I don’t believe Nyra would have killed her siblings but daemon would have possibly out of hatred (remember nyra’s kin slaying comments) but that’s just imo. Who truly knows? But either way, the dance was terrible and so preventable. It’s a tragic story and both sides are horrible. I supported nyra’s claim then aemond’s stupid ass started the war. They are going to make her descent into madness and paranoia tragic. Now I’m team everyone sucks and vizzy t. Was a horrible king who laid back off all the serious ass hard work his grandparents did to repair the realm after maegor the cruel. I used to argue over who deserved the throne but based on what both sides did to their subjects, none of them did. Tragic waste, all of it. Cruel and downright stupid choices. Just a waste.
The king made it law that his word is law. I think people are failing to understand that laws work differently in a freudal society than in our modern times. We're used to laws being passed by our chosen representatives through a two-part voting system (lower house and upper house). Laws are passed by representatives who receive the mandate of the people through a democratic and fair voting system. In a feudal society like westeros, Viserys’ mandate derives from the power he can project. The Lords of the great council chose him as their king because as a Targaryen man with a dragon, he projected more power than infant and dragonless Leanor. But by to naming Rhaenyra heir before his sons, he's rejecting the same institution from which he received his mandate, and simultaneously depriving Rhaenyra of that mandate.
@@Aiffam1 agreed. But the king had that luxury to make his word law, not arguing or anything. I genuinely think both comments are interesting. There’s arguments for both sides and a lot of people are applying today’s politics or even politics from like 100 years ago compared to the time that this would’ve taken place not to mention that it’s a *fantasy* federal Society. I mean Jaehaerys did not want a woman on the throne. I mean what him and Queen Alysanne ironically, both ruled together(honestly I loved reading about their reign the most because it really was both of them. And my man septan Barth lol) , and she did a lot of stuff and they worked as partners. Like they cleaned up a huge huge mess because the realm was so fractured. If I’m remembering correctly him passing over his daughters as heirs caused one of the two great rifts between them. It made his queen feel slighted because she did a lot of the work too. And I don’t blame her one bit. Ultimately Viserys got to sit back and reap the rewards that the old king and the good queen had essentially made. He genuinely wasn’t fit to be king in my opinion, and I do think that had Jaehaerys not been so sexist and put Rhaneys on the throne ( she was also married to an incredibly intelligent man who would’ve helped her rule and she herself was not a stupid woman. And was an accomplished dragon rider herself .) then things would’ve been better off. But like the comments that I agree with say above me like both of them, this is feudal society. So there was just no way that was gonna happen.But Viserys could have made it happen if he had abdicated and let his daughter rule for 10 years while he was still alive and done his duty. Abd just genuinely done What needed to be done but even then there would’ve been a lot of upheaval in the realm that he and Rhaenyra would’ve needed to solve and he needed a spine to get the Hightowers in line. It definitely could have been done, but I mean, who knows because this is feudal society and you’ve got some Lords who are reasonable and politically savvy and then you’ve got like Lord like the Lord at storms end that essentially helped start the damn dance in the first place. It had been brewing for years, but that event kicked it off. Also viserys was not as smart as the old king and the good queen, and he let too many people have dragons the previous monarchs controlled who had a dragon. So even if we didn’t have the dance at this time at some point it would have happened. Just due to having a bad king. Or essentially someone who is not trained to be king and his small council was mostly self-serving.. so a dance would’ve happened at some point just because of that factor. Either way, I see it as sad and a waste. I hate watching the dragons die. And also the fact that dragons who essentially were bonded together one point or having to fight each other. I mean, I know they’re not real but still. Both of you guys had really good comments. Don’t know if anyone read all that, but I still do think a dance of some sort would’ve happened whether this generation or a few Kings later. Like you can just go through fire and blood and just circle or highlight like things that help lead to the dance. It’s sad because the original conquer like his sister wives sat the throne and honestly ruled more than he did. And he was perfectly fine with it and they did a great job like it’s teamwork and instead he didn’t keep his family together or in line. It’s kind of why I wish we’ve gotten the conquest first because he didn’t normally even sit the throne.(Aegon I). But then again he also wanted a son. I honestly can’t remember if it was a son or just an heir in general, I’m doing a reread (but in the middle of a huge move so using audiobook and I’ll sit and read both world books for reference because my library is unpacked but I’m often doing something and there are so many little itty bitty details to catch) but the dance depresses me because both sides were not fit.
@@crinklescat1871 the king's word is law only until he is a king and people would quickly overthrow the king the moment they deem his decisions outrageous and stupid. So tough his word was "law", it really wasn't. People only follow his words if they too agree with his it. In the case of his heir, they don't. So the civil outbreak was bound to occur sooner or later.
@@crinklescat1871 The king's word is law, but even feudal societies have "constitutions" (thought often unwritten and based on custom). The principles of hierarchy of norms still applies: although the king's word may be law, that law can still be "unconstitutional" and thus void. For example, in pre-revolutionary France, the king's powers were still limited by what was called the "fundamental laws of the realm". It would have been absolutely unthinkable for a king of France to designate his heir, even at the cost of a dynastic changes. For instance, king Louis XII only had a daughter. Could he make her his successor? No. The crown instead went to Francis I... who had the good idea to marry Louis XII's daughter. Likewise, two generations later, all the sons of Henry II (brothers Francis II, Charles IX and Henry III) died one after the other without heirs. Could the last one appoint their sister Margaret to be Queen after him? No. The crown instead went to a distant cousin of in the Bourbon branch of the family, Henry IV... who had the good idea to marry Margaret. This is the principle of "unavailability of the crown". Basically, the crown passes from one king to the next by application of the rules of male primogeniture, and nobody, not even the king, can dispose of the crown. It is not theirs to pass down as they see fit. You might even say that it is the crown who wears the king, not the king who wears the crown. Think of it like a trust fund set up many generations ago: when you become the beneficiary, you get to spend the money that the trust produces as you see fit, but you do not have a say about who the next beneficiary is.
Your shorts have to STOP opening with “did you know” when they are completely opinionated, which is not a problem, but is not the same content as when you’d compare storylines or character arcs between text & adaption. Love both types of shorts but it is not useful for productive/fruitful discussion in fandom.
Except in the show, Alicent, even after her falling out the Rhaenyra, all through season 1 actually champions Rhaenyra's claim over Aegon's to Otto. It is Otto who is constantly pushing her to get Viserys to put the boys before Rhaenyra. It isn't until Viserys is dying and she thinks she hears him say he wants Aegon to be king that she actually starts pushing Aegon to be heir. Yes she does tell Aegon he SHOULD be heir but isn't shown to actively try and put her sons ahead of Rhaenyra, no matter how much she bad mouths her. This is again, only from season 1 of the show. Haven't seen season 2 or read the books so obviously I'm missing some context considering how little season 1 actually shows of the inter character dramas due to the far too many big time skips. Hell Daerion isn't even shown... maybe not even mentioned in season 1.
Alicent in the show didn’t know her son Aegon was going to be the king so obviously she didn’t show him how to rule. During viserys’ last moments of life she thought he wanted Aegon to be king, this was the only reason why Alicent placed her son on the throne. Not to steal Rhaenyras throne but because she thought that was what viserys wanted. Alicent had never plotted to place her son upon the iron throne until she thought the viserys said so
In season 1, episode 6, Alicent tells Aegon everyone in the realm knows that one day, he will be king. I think this is six years before Viserys dies. So apparently she did know, but unfortunately, still didn't do a single thing to prepare him for it. I'm not sure if this is just poor writing, or if the writers intentionally created this conundrum. But either way, it is extremely odd that she would know and expect him to be king one day, but make no effort to ensure that he could actually be a good king.
@@farktari1183 Ahh you’re right. I completely forgot about that. It’s odd that she supposedly knew and wanted her son to be king and yet she was surprised when the green council had already plotted to put Aegon on the throne without telling her. Maybe she was just surprised that they plotted without her though
The series' Alicent is a hypocrite in many ways. She and Crispin called off the guards IN STATE OF WAR to have some fun, and then she dared to say something to the traumatized Haelena about duty. She practically didn't raise her children, one grew up to be a rapist and the other to become a criminal. I feel sorry for her fate, in the series she was a child when she got married to a corpse, but the fact that we went through unpleasant experiences does not rule out the fact that we can make bad decisions and be a bad human
In the books she was the one that ordered to close the Gates in King's Landing, she also has more power and Rhaenyra is worse. She told her granddaughter to kill Aegon III after their wedding. This series makes this struggle for throne seem like everything is because of sexism, while in the books Criston Cole conwiced Aegon because 3 Rhaenyra children are bastards and they can't sit on the throne which is better reason.
🤔👉YEAH..SHE DID BRING ALL THIS ON HERSELF..SHE SHOULD HAVE TOUGHT HER KIDS BETTER.. ESPECIALLY HER SON'S.. THEN MAYBE THEY WOULD HAVE MADE MUCH! SMARTER DECISIONS 👈👏👀
Don’t you just love how every bad characteristick Rhyneara or the blacks have is either missing or pinned solely on Daemon. Alicents fear that her children will be murdered when Rheanyra assends the throne is totally legitimate. You can see it in the show as well (of course worded in a way in which most of the audinace wont get it) when her only take away from her bastard taking out the eye of her half brother is that Aemond should be tortured from where did he hear that the Strong boys were well… strong
This take is just bs. Alicent did what she thought was best for her family as did Rhaenyra. Rhaenyra is fighting for her own power and her family, she is not in a crusade for women, neither should be Alicent. They are both women fighting for their own interests and loved ones, which is understandable. The idea that Alicent needs to back up Rhaenyra over her own sons because she is a woman is just so dumb. And you conveniently ignore that she feared for their lives after Viserys' death if Rhaenyra and Daemon came into power.
She finally realised that she had those power all those year was becz of viserys ..... How ironic nobody want her to have the power after aegon retired 😂😂😂 even that crispy cole
'The Rhaenyra Show' has taken so many liberties with certain plotlines and characters that they're now completely different than how they're portrayed in Martin's novel. Alicent betraying her own children for her 'bestie'🤦🏻♀️, oh boy they ruined that character, book Alicent is far more realistic and her actions make much more sense. What we got in the book: "The city is yours, Princess. But you will not hold it long. The rats play when the cat is gone, but my son Aemond will return with fire and blood." - Queen Alicent Hightower to Rhaenyra Targaryen! What we got on the show: "Here my Queen let me bend my knee to you the rightful Queen, here is all our plans, so you can kill my entire family and my lover, did I tell you you're the best my Queen? You're the best. Take Aegon’s head I don’t care, anything for you my Queen. I will make sure Kings Landing bows to you and you can take Aegon's head, just let me and Helaena live. Wanna go for vacation btw? Team Black for the win." - Alicent to Rhaenyra in episode 8.🤮 I knew this whole I misunderstood my husband’s last words dumb scenario would lead up to this crap, why couldn’t they keep it as in the book where everyone fights for power, well, Condal is the ultimate Rhaenyra simp and his queen has a higher purpose.🙄😬
![Yeat & Quavo - 5BRAZY [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/4XxnTAwyxus/mqdefault.jpg)
She outlived her whole family and was confined to her chambers to the rest of her days, often weeping, talking to herself and hating the colour green until the Winter fever took her out.
How ironic that it was Rhaenyra’s and Daemon’s son who spared her (with a sprinkle of Stark mercy)
@Monk_Chud because that was his only heir and the only way to save his line through Jaehaera 🥲
Lmfao what about starks? None are relevant here her kids are Strongs not Starks lmfao
@@jacob7818 Cregan Stark is the reason Rhaenyra’s line won the war
@@jacob7818He is talking about Cregan Stark, who ruled in the iron throne for a brief period in the end of the dance, serving essentially as a regent for Aegon the younger, and punishing those he considered to be responsible to conspire for Aegon's death( the son of Alicent), and also punishing the ones who usurped Rhaynera's throne, which includes Alicent herself.
@@isabellajensen9480 that’s not who saved her son tho. That would be larys strong actually who takes them and plans to make Aegon the younger the heir. Nothing to do with starks
And to add insult to injury, she literally does the same thing with Criston that she hated Rhaenyra for doing... Also with Criston 😅
This made me think that Alicent had a crush on Criston Cole, albeit back then one-sided. Now that she's doing the 'dirty' with Criston, she probably can kind of understand the arrangement Rhaenyra had with Harwin.
This video is about the books, showtard section is down the aisle
Further reinforcing the theory that she's just obsessed with Rhaenyra.
@@EgonsraadThe books are a biased account. Alicent having a relationship with Criston was totally inside the realm of possibility and is a valid discussion point.
@@emperorconstantinexipalaio4121 it being _possible_ within the bounds of F&B doesn't explain why idiots pretend like it's certain and wasn't just some shit ryan condom made up for drama
And in the end, she outlived nearly everyone in the Dance, left to brood alone in the Red Keep for the rest of her life, and then died of Westerovid-19
Is westerovoid related to COVID 19😂
💀@ Westerovid-19
She had a more miserable life and death than all those, they got it fast atleats
🤣🤣🤣🤣I love the Westerovid-19
Spoilers wtf is wrong with you ?!???
Cersei is way worse than show-Alicent.
Cersei would NEVER grieve for the death of her enemmy's son like Alicent did for Lucerys.
Cersei would have zero remorse about what she has done and would not reflect on her mistakes like Alicent is doing this season. Alicent is becoming self-aware, while Cersei was delusional to the end.
But Alicent wasn’t grieving. Whatever “grief” she showed was a ploy to make her look better bc her son killed Lucerys. If Alicent was truly repentant she would’ve imprisoned her kinslaying son, instead she said “oops my bad” gave Rhaenyra a piece of paper from a book they read two decades ago, and then went on about her day.
in some ways you can argue that is what makes Alicent worse.
Cersei is a monster. Her nature meant she never could be a good mother even when she tried.
but unlike Cersie Alicent isn't an inherent monster.
She had the capacity of being a good mother, could have raise her children right but she didn't and as a result of how she raised them she doomed them all.
@@sfsin3380 I don't see how Alicent could be worse when she has empathy / regrets / is capable to reflect on herself while Cersei is an absolute monster in every way. Alicent in the show never showed the same degree of cruelty as Cersei. Really, Cersei is a wicked woman on par with the likes of Ramsay Bolton. How could Alicent be worse exactly ? Actually Cersei would absolutely destroyed Alicent
@@qcosteur It's a basic philosophical debate is it worse to be born evil or choose evil.
Cersei was born evil she was always going to be a bad person and a terrible mother because that was her nature.
Alicent was not born evil she choose to be a bad mother.
So who is worse the woman who was born evil and followed her nature or the woman who choose the wrong path and can recognize that but doesn't change?
Alucent is worse she was never ever truly Rhaenyra’s friend Otto put her up to that also. Rhaenyra was a friend to Alicent she gave her too much grace when Alicent gave her none. With cersai you know what you’re getting at face value. Alicent was dangerous, sneaky and unpredictable.
The Hightower family is a classic example of the cycle of mental-emotional abuse. Also, Alicent reminds me of Serena Joy in "The Handmaid's Tale". She helped bring this extremely patriarchal society into power, thinking they'd reward her with power of her own, in gratitude for this help. Instead, all she did was further enable and empower her own oppression. It came back to bite her, just like it did with Alicent. (7/27/2024)
Yep, head of the leopards eating faces party surprised when the same uncontrollable wild animal they've been sicking on everyone else turns around and eats their own face.
The ultimate pick-me
Write an original comment for once. Alicent didn't bring shit. She tried to honor Viserys last wish and she didn't have an impact on anything anyway.
Based Serena
Why did you add the date?
Jace and Daeron would make an excellent duo of King and Hand. Jace is politically astute and driven. Daeron is bold and capable.
Daemon and Aemond would make a great duo of King and Hand 🤣
Maegor step aside, we're here to show you what real cruelty is.
@@12gark _"Some people... just want to watch the world burn."_
No one wants to see a bastard on the iron throne
Daeron is even more politically astute than Jace
What were you drinking?
Otto Hightower is the main culprit responsible for how his grandchildren turned out. He was so obsessed with gaining power and getting his blood to sit on the throne that he corrupted and used his daughter to manipulate Viserys (who later uncovers his plot) so that Viserys would fall in love with her and marry her. Otto made Alicent believe Rhaenyra would kill her and her children if she ever became crowned and Alicent made her children believe Rhaenyra would kill them all, so if it weren't for Otto being paranoid and corrupt, the Dance of the Dragons might not have ever happened.
@@NovaPrime77 This 👆🏼
Exactly!! It’s all on Otto. From the jump. And Viserys shouldn’t have been so stupid to start loving Alicent
Which was unnecessary because Targarions inbreed
Yeah sure let's blame Otto for being a responsible hand and a good father and marrying his daughter to the king.
???????
And also, how did Otto corrupt alycent to marry Viserys?
Viserys Lost his wife, he was sad and lonely, the young and beautiful alicent shows up to give him emotional support and give him some love, by advise of her dad, yes, but it's not like she did something evil, she was in the right place in the right time, Otto a real G, saw the opportunity and took it.
Aegon was a child that needed extra caring because you saw how spoiled he was becoming and love deprived he was with all the pressure he was put on as a child that his half sister might kill him one day for simply existing. Aemond was a child who needed extra caring because you saw lonely he was and how bullied he was. Haelaena was a child that needed extra caring because you saw how different she was. They all needed unconditional love and extra care like any child does but Viserys and Alicent couldn't bother. Viserys busy with his legos and Alicent busy with making Rhaenyra's life miserable.
It's crazy how badly Viserys wanted a son, remarried, had 3, and essentially ignored them all.
@@latishabuckner8231 yeah and it pisses me off. He marries a girl, has sex with her, creates four babies and essentially ignores them and never gives them any love. Does he even remember who the fuck Daeron is? In the banquet scene where he says that all the people I love are here today and Daeron is not even present at the table.
I do hate how they portrayed Viserys' relationship with his other children in the show.
In the book, Viserys spent a lot of his free time with his children and grandchildren. He even had his sons and Rhaenyra's sons hangout and train together. He wanted his family to be a family and get along. He didn't play favorites like the show leaned into.
Daerion, who is the same age as Jace, had the same wet nurse making them 'milk brothers'. Unfortunately, Alicent's animosity towards Rhaenyra corrupted him against Rhaenyra's children.
@@latishabuckner8231i think after aemmas death he stopped caring 😭🫠 he only cared for rhaynera after their moms death which rhaynera blamed him forz and viseys felt responsible for her death as well.
Viserys was busy trying to survive....... not with the legos 😂
Viserys named Rhaenyra heir before her brothers were even born. There were no chance he would name any of them heir.
Well, there was a chance, that's why Rhaenyra was so bratty when Aegon was born. She was afraid Viserys would push her aside for her brother and that's why he's been pushing her to get married (to send her away, remember at their interaction then?). Male progenitor is how they used to do it then. Viserys was considering it too (replacing Rhaenyra) in a way, I think that was the episode when they were celebrating Aegon's 2nd nameday. Viserys was drunk by the fire and Alicent actually told him that his decision to name Rhaenyra as heir was the right one (this was pre-competition between Rhaenyra and Alicent). Only a few years before, they selected Viserys instead of Rhaenys, nay Rhaenys was not even considered...it was Laenor was considered in the running to be the next king after Jaeharys which proved that they're partial for male heir.
Should’ve ditched Otto for Rhaenyra. What an actual fool. Her and her children would have been honored and protected in Rhaenyra’s Court and she would have wielded more outsized influence. Instead she helped start a civil war that killed her entire family and doomed her to a slow death by escalating insanity.
Even at the end of her life, she was still spiteful enough to ask Jaehera to kill Aegon III
For Alicent…I don’t think she didn’t want her to rule because she was a woman…I think it was because of jealousy. Absolutely she raised her sons to hate their sister and didn’t show them much love. She got from them what she put into them. Despite Rhaenyra’s faults, the one thing she can definitely be proud of is the way her sons turned out. She was a very loving and caring mother.
That's very true
In both the serie and the book she reaped what she sowed, I love the character and I feel bad for her, but in the end, just like the saying goes, karma has no mercy.
But it also goes without saying that both she and Aegon, Helaena and Daemon are examples of children who are born and grow up without love, a perfect contrast to Raenyra and her children who did grow up with it, just like Daeron.
Exactly, the people around Daeron actually gave him some consideration and constructive attention and lessons and look! The kid would make a great king.
Too bad she wasn’t born a Greyjoy…
@@visionofsolace8961 Gwayne Hightower was right: keep your highborn kids away from the Red Keep! Cause for all its privileges, they're gonna be raised by people who only see them as chestpieces!
What's there to love about her character honestly...
Lol I love comments like this proving my point that most of this show's fans are just idiots who honestly don't deserve anything. You just want to watch misery porn and get off to Alicent's suffering because she dared to have motivations that go against the main characters. Get that shit out of here lmao, you're pathetic.
Show Alicent was a child mother. She was in no way a perfect mother, or even a good one, but I can’t say I put 100% of the blame on her when she was forced to raise children when she was a child herself. Viserys was also their father. He could have put effort into raising Aemond & Aegon to be good men.
I get what you're saying, but she still continued to be a sh*t mom after she and her children grew up. Also, Aemma was also a child mother. Married at 11 and had Rhaenyra at 15, but she had miscarriages before Rhaenyra was born. She was still a decent mother to Rhaenyra. Alicent put too much energy into hating Rhaenyra and not enough into loving her own kids.
This video is dumb. You can tell from the comments that people are projecting the book character onto the show
@@sushmitaraodesaraju6330 Aemma also had the benefit of Viserys being a loving father to Rhaenyra & was actually present to parent her lol. Viserys didn’t give af about his kids with Alicent. Alicent’s circumstances don’t excuse her being a bad mother, but I do think it helps you understand it a little better. I like a flawed character.
Your point has some merit, but I disagree at least partially on several issues.
First of all, Cersei did not "poison" Joffrey in the sense that it wasn't solely because of Cersei that Joffrey turned out like he did, like sure, she certainly contributed, but the kid was torturing and killing cats since he was little (early sign of conduct disorder, which given his later behavior as a young man suggests antisocial personality disorder), dude was gonna be a bad apple with or without Cersei, she just made it worse.
The other thing is that Alicent did not cultivate resentment against Rhaenyra and her children solely because Rhaenyra was a woman, it is perfectly clear and stated that that was always an excuse use for the public by most who actually cared to take a side early or late, rather she did it more due to personal issues with her as a person (valid or not depends on who you ask) AND fear as to what their children's position and situation would be with Rhaenyra as heir and then queen since she lost trust in her. Again, whether or not she was justified isn't the point, but rather claiming that it was solely about Rhaenyra's sex means you're ignoring almost everything related to the relationship between the 2 of them both before and after they had their falling out.
In this world, incest leads to madness at times. Joffrey is probably born bad, because of that. A choice made entirely by Cersei and Jaime. Also, Cersei was a bad seed herself, having drowned her best friend as a child.
You know, periods and ending sentences exist for a reason. It makes for an easier read.
Saying Alicent "couldn't trust Rhaenyra" is a bad excuse.
In the book, Alicent is blatantly trying to usurp Rhaenyra as heir and plotted with her father for years to usurp the throne. The show changes that, except the excuse of "well if Rhaenyra lied about her virtue, then she will DEFINITELY kill my children".
Which is hilarious given the fact Rhaenyra wasn't worried about her half-siblings. In both book and show, Rhaenyra is shown to want to forgive Aegon for what happened and accept her half-siblings into her court. Her only problem at that point was with Otto for committing treason. That is probably the only real issue that Rhaenyra and her half- siblings would disagree on, given that Otto is their grandfather. Her best bet was to give him an option: death or take the Black.
She said it herself to tyrion Joffery was a monster and it was punishment for her and jammies “sins” in got lore incest can lead to insanity
Heavily agree with your second point.
Joffrey was the product of a narcissistic, cruel woman, he was always going to be what he was. Alicent poisoned her children because she was selfish, greedy and jealous, you can argue against that, but it remains to be true, as Rhaenyra never gave any indication that she would become a threat to her siblings, in fact it was Alicent who was a threat to Rhaenyra's sons and made her children threats to them as well.
Alicent is such a well written character
Alicent messed up badly and she now knows it.
An heir and a spare mentality, focus solely on first born. Same as all the other high houses did. Sent to Hightower to be maesters, trained to be: fighters, swordsmen, or the “Great” houses to be knights.
Seems the wards we witness fair far better than those kept at home. Mothers dig their own children’s graves in Westeros, beginning right after birth.
That makes sooo much sense why Tommen and Myrcella were the exact opposite of Joffrey
Hard to put a collar on a dog when it has a crown on its head- Tyrion
This guy is a rapist and you're idolizing him btw :) Also calling Alicent a dog is just weird
Alicent is the predecessor to Cersei. Both were used by their fathers, desires power but are inapt to rule, the women lost their mothers young, they struggled in motherhood, and both overestimated their strength and womanly charms.
Alicent AND Otto doomed her children. Blind ambition, greed, jealousy, and pure ignorance fueled flames of hate and discord that led to a war they knowingly preceded in without war experience, real allies, or qualified candidates for the throne. I have no empathy for Alicent because like Cersei they failed to put their children first when they needed loving, caring mothers. Aegon II and Aemond are every bit of Alicent's negative and toxic creations. She willfully placed those boys in Cole's hands. Cole trained hate, spoke hate, and led the boys directly to their demises. Tragic.
I want to see more moment of Rhaenyra and alicent I ship them and I love them so much ❤❤❤
It's still kind of weird to me that nobody's willing to be compassionate about this character given the things that she has to go through.
Not to mention that Rhaenyra is pretty spoiled since she has promised the crown and clings on to it like nobody's business,
Because it's pretty much the only thing she actually cares about,
What she feels she is owed.
And don't even get me started on the fact that Rhaenyra pretty much has the same level of hypocrisy;
Trying so hard to compete with men for the throne,
Only to throw other women under the bus when she gets it,
By not allowing them to have equal rights.
I feel like this show is intentionally biased, and it is supposed to make you second-guess the main character.
You're not necessarily supposed to buy into her side immediately,
You're supposed to question it,
Because it definitely feels like propaganda.
They almost never talk about how it affects the people that belong in those kingdoms.
The focus is entirely on the fighting for the crown,
An inherently selfish endeavor.
I mean welcome to Game of Thrones, the whole series is about how when the "powerful" clash it's everyone who suffers, especially the common folk, it's even said in the original show and books "The smallfolk pray rain, a good harvest, a summer that never ends, and to be left alone while the highlords play their game of thrones... they never are." The Black's and Greens, including Alicent and Rhaenyra, don't get any sympathy from me because most of them are pretty terrible people.
Besides you're forgetting that the whole plot was a well thought out plan by Otto as in books it's quite mysterious as to why all of Aema children especially male died early or were still born given that the maesters work for the Hightower, Secondly Otto made sure for alicent to be Wed to viserys following his wife death and push daemon from the position of heir to install Rhaenyra as a way of eliminating daemon knowing full well that he would have alicent son either be chosen to be the next heir or usurp the throne. The marriage to laenor a gay and infertile man was also his idea as both harwin and daemon gave Rhaenyra children yet leanor despite trying could not forcing Rhaenyra to get children else were. This was a conspiracy that viserys and daemon failed to realize. Most of the things Rhaenyra is blamed for were made possible due to a situational plan
She didn’t want to usurp Rhaenyra because she's a woman. She wanted to usurp her because she thought she would kill her sons once she becomes Queen.
Alicent was manipulated by her father. Otto was the one who put the thought in her head. Alicent is a fool and has no backbone to stand up for herself. Alicent and Otto were the ones who start the dance of dragons. Otto used Alicent to seduce Visery after the death of Rhaenyra’s mother.
How exactly is this what she deserved? She was married off to a man who mistreated her, wrongfully refused to acknowledge their son's birthright, and left their kids and her vulnerable, simply because he didn't lover her or her kids.
Insane take.
Not to mention the fact that she was afraid her son's would be killed if Rhaenyra ever became queen.
Alicent: *SHOCKED PIKACHU FACE*
Comparing her to Cersi is an insult to psychopaths everywhere. But there are similarities in their child rearing.
She definitely not as psychotic as Cersei but book alicent is really evil. And horrific. Especially when the winter wolves come. I like the show version but the book version is one of my most hated characters in fiction.
Cersei’s chapters were fun as hell to read though 😂
this is genuinely kinda of stupid. Alicent never raised her kids to usurp Rhaenyra, sure maybe resent their sister, but that was more projection than anything else. “But she said that Rhaenyra would kill them!??” She isn’t wrong in believing Rhaenyra would have them killed, esp when the two are estranged friends who constantly tried to get back at the other. Alicent backed her claim to the things until Viserys died, when started to spout his geriatric nonsense to a woman who had no idea that he meant Aegon the conqueror. She took part in the usurping because she genuinely believed in her naivety that Viserys wanted Aegon in the throne in his final moments. We literally see her realize she fucked up in season 2, and she acknowledges that (ofc through the kind of trash writing). We also see that Alicent didn’t even know the small council was planning to usurp Rhaenyra. Team Green did usurp Rhaenyra because she was a woman, but Alicent’s personal reason to take part was not based on gender but through a very misfortunate misunderstanding. That doesn’t get rid of the fact that she still participated in one of the most blatant acts of misogyny, but again, she didn’t take part because Rhaenyra was a woman.
Also Alicent had to rule that fuck ass kingdom ( w/ the help of her father) while her decaying hag if a husband was rotting in bed, we see Gwayne mention that it’s not entirely Alicent’s fault her kids became the way they are but the entire atmosphere of Kings Landing, so don’t go talking about “because Daeron was far away from his mother-!” She was a barely twenty when she had him be for real!!
Tommen was a dumb king!😂 Myrcella was a sane soul fof sure
Well.. They had to make some stuff up for Tommen and Myrcella.
In the book, Tommen is a 8 and Myrcella is 10.
She’s NOT capable of ruling. That’s the whole point of the show. Trying to change centuries of traditional succession to appease his daughter’s pouting destroyed their dynasty.
She is the most fit to rule, Aegon is rapist, Aemond is a spoiled brat and Daeron may could have been a good ruler
“Capable of ruling”…when has rhaenyra ever ruled before?
When has Aegon and Aemond ruled before?
@@romanoffsson saying this doesn’t dispute the fact that rhaenyra has never ruled before.
@@akwasiampofo5565 She is still the most capaple, she was in many small councils, tried to hold the realm together and only attack because there is no other way
@@romanoffsson again, it doesn’t dispute the fact that she has never ruled. Sitting at the council isn’t the same as ruling. She hasn’t ruled before, that’s just factual.
It's a good thing I treated you boys with a kind loving heart because we're not in line for a throne. But you'd make a great king!!❤❤😊
I disagree. I felt that she was scared for the life of her children. That if Rhaenyra became queen they might kill her children. That was what Otto instilled to her.
This is why I think the show could've went the route in which she planned this aftrr havibg her first born and naming him aegon not by a miatake or mishearibg of words from viserys... because he wasn't gonna change his mind but show is right that she put them on throne for multiple reasons because their wasn't 1 good reason to USURP... but that they wanted to keep power....
Exactly.
It was obvious early on that they did that to make the Greens more sympathetic.
Correct, Rhaenyra had 0 reason to usurp the throne but did it anyway.
@@mcbeaty3971 Usurp what was her birthright as heir apparent, named by the reigning king and sworn to by the Lords of the Seven Kingdons? Quit playing with the Princess of Dragonstone.
@@NeoDarkling Even you called her „Princess“ so you clearly don’t even believe what you are saying to me.
Alicent did not doubt rhanaeyra, a women's ability to rulerule. Instead, Alicent fell to her father's continuous gaslighting, that rhaenyra wud inevitably kill aegon n Aemond to eliminate any competition to d throne. It is when Alicent believed her son's lives to be in danger dat she finally turned against rhaenyra. Of course, she turned into an abominable mother to her own kids n became d very monster she THOUGHT she was fighting ( rhaenyra).
The show runner is such a biased mf, polarising the fanbase for higher ratings, making it all about good vs evil, the patriarchy, which was a given back in the day anyway, and modern day feminism, not the point of the book though, the real story is about how thirst for power can tear entire families apart, no one is blameless. Instead of bringing GRRMs true story to the screen, they made sure the audience gets very little chance to connect with the greens, by turning Aegon into a rapist, downplaying Blood&Cheese which is a game changer in the book, giving Aegon's special moments with Sunfyre to Rhaenyra and Syrax, turning Rhaenyra into a dull goody two shoes protagonist, who only wants the throne because of the prophecy if you can believe that, 🤦♀️ and so much more. Anyway, blaming Alicent solely for her sons upbringing is unacceptable, what about the absentee father? Ok, her sons were spoiled rotten, but most royals usually are, and why compare them to Rhaenyra's boys, well, she pampered them a lot out of guilt, since she knew that bringing bastards into the world made them a target and the boys were well mannered and humble because they were aware that everyone knew the truth about them. Crazy how the show runner is constantly breaking the lore for the worse to push his own narrative, makes HOTD seem like pure fanfiction at times. I know they will try to make up for it in the last episodes, but this season was boring af especially Daemon's storyline. To be honest, I fast forward all Rhaenyra and Deamon's scenes, when I rewatch an episode and only pay attention to the scenes with the greens, they make S2 watchable, brilliant acting and great dialogue I must admit.
Rhaenyra is the good side, it's simple
@@romanoffsson Not at all according to GRRMs story, Rhaenyra being the protagonist and actually a Mary Sue with a divine purpose is just a show thing, book Rhaenyra is as bad as the rest of the players, the 'Rhaenyra show' is not even loosely based on the Fire&Blood book at this point, only the names and places are there and some of the events significantly changed for the worse.
@@mariadimitroulia645I am saying that she is the protagonist in the show wich she is, she has 1h30 minutes more than alicent and 3h more than aegon, of course the show is biased for her
@@romanoffsson Should not be called HOTD then but 'The Rhaenyra Show', since the it’s bad fan fiction, it never was about Rhaenyra and Alicent anyway, Aegon and Rhaenyra were the main players, if only they had stayed a little more faithful to the source material.
Alicent diddnt raise her children to hate and want to usurp rheanyra purely because she was a woman though, I don't know where people get that from? She never wanted aegon to be king and was always in favour of rheanyra being queen but her fathers constant manipulations throughout her young life slowly convinced her that the realm would reject rheanyra and she would be forced into killing her children to destroy their claim. That is the main reason why alicent wanted aegon to be king.
That's literally what happened with Aegon 😅
Cersei, for as deplorable as she was, loved her children. Alicent, however, only seemed to love Helaena and the idea of her son Daeron. Ironically, the one she had the least contact with was probably the least screwed up.
I honestly feel a little sorry for all of Alicent’s children, even Aegon and Aemond. From the very start, all of them were deprived of proper parental love because their father always favored his eldest and was getting closer to death every year and their mother had them when she was way too young, so she never knew how to be an affectionate parent herself. Sadly, those children were doomed the moment they were born.
Rhaenyra also had her kids were super young ! Stop making excuses for the Hightowers.
Where did you see Viserys not liking his other kids. It was never showed to us.
If you are talking about the eye situation. What was Viserys supposed to do ?
Please let's call a dog a dog (as we say in french)
@@ssissigui8846 The difference with Rhaenyra is that she had two co parents to care for her sons in Laenor and Harwin. And her children were born out of love with a man of her choice. Alicent in the other hand no one to help her with her children and they were born out of duty and slight marital r*pe rather than love.
Idk at least show some care for Aemond reprimand lucerys for almost murdering his son even just a little courtesy lol. You got to be illiterate to believe that viserys liked his other kids. @@ssissigui8846
@@garlantyrell6368Alicent had plenty of help. Didn't you see all of the maids?
If you mean a suitable co-parent, then yes; the show kind of made it seem like Viserys ignored his other children.
In the book, Viserys was a very active parent in his children's lives. However, Alicent's vindictive nature is what corrupted her children against Rhaenyra; as she plotted with Otto to usurp the throne for Aegon.
If Alicent didn't have Viserys' help, then she xould have turned to her father for help; except HE was the one who was the bad father.
@@garlantyrell6368 the rape part isnt true in the books... the show really showed it wrong because when Vyseris married Alicent he was 29 and Alicent was 21... Show kinda distorted the reality
It's not about gender or values or gender relations, it's about family, blood, loyalty and allegiance. She wanted her offspring to rule, not someone else's, and expected her sons to reward that once in power. As far as mental and conceptual frameworks go, that makes perfect sense. It's probably even been done in the real world. Most of human history and motivation has not been an argument about abstract principles, still less about the ones we care about now.
The same theme is apparent. If you’re far from the throne you will become a good and noble person.
In the end, no woman will rule the seven kingdoms
Alicent is a clown
Magnificent analysis
This is a lot of cap imo. She was raised to believe Rhaenyra would be forced to eliminate her sons. As to why they are all a holes in except helaena is most likely because they weren’t raised like at all. Past pre-adolescents. She was busy ruling with Otto, leaving her kids to be raised in probably the worst possible place while Daeron got to live in basically a religious boarding school. People act like alicent is some cartoon villain. Not to mention aegon and aemond were most likely raised by Criston Cole in their teens, who is the most stable person either.
And her sons still died, but because of her. Helaena ended her life cuz she could no longer live in such pain and suffer. It wasn't Rhaenyra who killed them, but Alicent herself
Otto shares everything said about Alicent here, but everything is still correct:
She believed Rhaenyra would kill her half brother
She believed Aegon had to be king
She was a terrible mother that grew two terrible children
And was an absolute idiot when she thought she may take the power while Aegon was injured despite years of accurate selection of the most misogynistic people possibly for the small council.
Of course she was a victim herself of her father scheming. She was put in 35-yo Vyseris bedroom at 16 by her father, and used left right and center by Otto, who was the worst man possible. But you are guilty of your crimes even if you have a bad upbringing
@@_triscilla It was Rhaenyra's war. She should have just stepped aside for the rightful heir. Aegon II.
@@CatotheEshe is the rightful ruler what do you mean?
@@garycarter1324 She's not. By law and precedent, it's Aegon. Her only argument is that her daddy said so.
Your channel is so hard to ignore the spoilers you do so good ugh lol
Bs..the males around her made her feel afraud for her children if they didnt wewr the crown. And she mistook her husband's last words.
Cersei kids didn’t turn out okay! Lol
Myrcella and Tommen did, until they died but no one is okay when they’re dead.
@@genghiskhan6809they're both still alive in the books.
Because they weren't Robert's children and born out of love instead of duty. I can't bring myself to say that cersei is better than Alicent in pursuing power.
What are you yapping about, who's Dareon? She wants her children to rule just because of human selfish nature, who would not wanna
Great video
It’s like the child in CK was fostered by a character with multiple bad traits. 😂
Karma...that why i cant stand her and blame her. She ruined her kids and was a terrible excuse of a mother. Rhaenyra however is adored by her boys.
Not just Alicent and Otto also Cole manipulate them in seeing Rhenyra and her kids as enemy (only because she dont ran away with him)!
Agreed Alicent was never Rhaenyra’s friend. She was jealous and despised her.
Not biased at all
Wow well put
Agree.. she is a bad mother.. dont know her place.
Generally there are few people that would pass as moral or heroic characters in Martin’s writing. Most are capable of being complete bastards. However, Alicent in on the list of simply despicable.
In the book? Most definitely. Fits the evil petty stepmother trope to a T, even if Rhaenyra is no saint either.
In the show? I wouldn't go that far. Maybe she can be infuriating or unlikable during her worst moments, but she certainly has nuance, a conscience, and her frustrations come from a somewhat understandable place if one bothers to give her the benefit of the doubt. She is both a victim of the system that surrounded her, as well as of her own actions and the consequences thereof, so the package includes both personal agency as well as tragic observations as to what the lot in life was for a woman like her. And yes, that can apply even to "privileged" aristocracy like her, not just commoners, it is simply a different type of difficulty.
@@maxi1ification Exactly. Alicent in the show is very different. I like her becoming self-aware, reflecting on her own mistakes and realizing how she could have done things better. She clearly regrets all of this.
There's no subgenre of asoiaf fans as comically stupid or incapable of understanding what the books are about as unironic Team Black dickriders
This comment is dumb. If you mean book Alicent, we know barely anything about her so your words are empty. Calling show Alicent just means you can't be trusted to be rational.
@@secondeye1574 you need to go back and read “Blood and Fire” Alicent is quite the hypocrite.
it wasn't because she was a woman. otto convinced her then she convinced them reyrey would kill them. only time ive been able to correct something here.
Rhaenyra is a tyrant in the books. And at least as unfit as Aegon to rule.
She got the joffery treatment it just wasnt a turd this time!😂
Alicent did not do this because Rhaenyra was a woman... but she did this to make her son king..
No she did it because Rhaenyra was a woman and she was jealous of her
@@ssissigui8846Nothing to be jealous of
Daeron still hated Rhaenyra tho
In the books I heard she was a whole lot worse 😮
The boys didn't even want to fight over the thrown until she got it in their heads their sister would have them all killed if she won. Aegon never wanted to be king until his and his children's lives were seemingly put at risk. Glad she got the ending she deserved; alone and miserable
Bro you gotta stop saying “did you know” then say an opinion after😂 even if it’s the right opinion
Exactly!
This guy can't even get the names of the characters right. He should shut his mouth and stop making asoiaf content entirely.
Too bad it went this way. Loved the series!😊❤
The show Alicent doesn't seems the one who deserves all this
Rhaenyra isn't a threat? Lmao what?Her lie was the reason Alicent's father had to leave, she lied to Alicent, she was literally all about "They must be questioned strictly" for Aemond rightfully accusing her sons of being bastards when he literally lost an eye. She cared more about her sons being insulted than her brother literally losing an eye. So ofoourse Rhaenyra is a threat. She might not have actively plotted against them but she would always chose herself and her sons even if it meant hurting her brothers as we can clearly see in the show. Maybe today she hasn't done anything but when the boys will be used as leverage(which WILL happen even if its not by the Greens) to threaten her reign she will surely do it. Yall just linear minded and blindly support Team Black.
Me forgetting jace lashed out at rhaenyra for giving unclaimed dragons to bastards knowing he is bastard himself. Anyway hypocrisy speaks itself.
The problem is Alicent did not accept the fact she is indeed the Mother of 4 children and did not provide them the maternal Love or guidance they needed even though it would have helped her in the long run.
Watching the woman realize in real time that playing for team, "Women are inferior" was against her self-interest was pretty funny
I think this is a bit unfair. Male primogeniture is deeply ingrained in Westerosi culture (except in Dorne). To almost everyone, bypassing the king's brother Daemon in favour of Rhaenyra was awkward, but they could go along with the idea; but bypassing a son to favour a daughter feels outright "unconstitutional". Many lords were not going to accept that, and so Aegon and his brothers were always going to be threats to Rhaenyra's rule since they are seen as more "legitimate" to sit on the Iron Throne, especially with the rumors of bastardy of her own sons. Even if Aegon publicly stated "I am loyal to my sister the Queen and want nothing to do with the crown", he could still be instrumentalized by any revolting faction in the realm. Whenever someone powerful grew discontent with the queen, they had the option to overthrow her to install one of her half-brothers in her stead. That's the conversation that Otto and Alicent had on that rainy day, and later Alicent and Aegon: "Your _very existence_ is the challenge [to Rhaenyra]".
Rhaenyra is the one bending the law and customs to pretend to the crown. Her claim will always be weaker, so the wise thing for her to do would be to make her rivals disappear. Either her brothers would be met with "hunting accidents" and "choking on pigeon pie", or she would have to instead to have Helaena, her children and Daemon killed in order to marry Aegon and join their claims. Alicent was merely trying to protect her children.
At the very least, if Viserys was not going to change his mind about leaving the throne to Rhaenyra, he should have had the lords come back to renew their oath of allegiance to her, including Aegon, Aemond and Daerron who should have been made up publicly pledge their fealty to her as future queen! He knew his health was declining and he was about to die. He could have foreseen this.
Of course, and even stronger course of action would have been too call another Great Council to settle the issue. But then they would probably have picked Aegon anyway. And it would have created a dangerous precedent to let the lords select the monarch twice in a row; they could get used to this and start to see it as their prerogative to systematically chose the king from amongst the available candidates in the royal family. That might be giving them too much power and lead to corruption and to the selection of weak kings easily swayed, pressured or overthrown.
The kings word is *law* though.
He should have abdicated while he was still alive and let her rule and taken control of his family, he should have never been king and rhaneys would have made an excellent queen. And brought his wife to heal and then I like the rest of your suggestions. However, she was usurped not the other way around but that can argued too since they had that council. So it’s circular. But good comment tbh. I don’t believe Nyra would have killed her siblings but daemon would have possibly out of hatred (remember nyra’s kin slaying comments) but that’s just imo. Who truly knows?
But either way, the dance was terrible and so preventable. It’s a tragic story and both sides are horrible. I supported nyra’s claim then aemond’s stupid ass started the war. They are going to make her descent into madness and paranoia tragic.
Now I’m team everyone sucks and vizzy t. Was a horrible king who laid back off all the serious ass hard work his grandparents did to repair the realm after maegor the cruel. I used to argue over who deserved the throne but based on what both sides did to their subjects, none of them did. Tragic waste, all of it. Cruel and downright stupid choices. Just a waste.
The king made it law that his word is law. I think people are failing to understand that laws work differently in a freudal society than in our modern times. We're used to laws being passed by our chosen representatives through a two-part voting system (lower house and upper house). Laws are passed by representatives who receive the mandate of the people through a democratic and fair voting system. In a feudal society like westeros, Viserys’ mandate derives from the power he can project. The Lords of the great council chose him as their king because as a Targaryen man with a dragon, he projected more power than infant and dragonless Leanor. But by to naming Rhaenyra heir before his sons, he's rejecting the same institution from which he received his mandate, and simultaneously depriving Rhaenyra of that mandate.
@@Aiffam1 agreed. But the king had that luxury to make his word law, not arguing or anything. I genuinely think both comments are interesting. There’s arguments for both sides and a lot of people are applying today’s politics or even politics from like 100 years ago compared to the time that this would’ve taken place not to mention that it’s a *fantasy* federal Society.
I mean Jaehaerys did not want a woman on the throne. I mean what him and Queen Alysanne ironically, both ruled together(honestly I loved reading about their reign the most because it really was both of them. And my man septan Barth lol) , and she did a lot of stuff and they worked as partners. Like they cleaned up a huge huge mess because the realm was so fractured.
If I’m remembering correctly him passing over his daughters as heirs caused one of the two great rifts between them. It made his queen feel slighted because she did a lot of the work too. And I don’t blame her one bit.
Ultimately Viserys got to sit back and reap the rewards that the old king and the good queen had essentially made. He genuinely wasn’t fit to be king in my opinion, and I do think that had Jaehaerys not been so sexist and put Rhaneys on the throne ( she was also married to an incredibly intelligent man who would’ve helped her rule and she herself was not a stupid woman. And was an accomplished dragon rider herself .) then things would’ve been better off.
But like the comments that I agree with say above me like both of them, this is feudal society. So there was just no way that was gonna happen.But Viserys could have made it happen if he had abdicated and let his daughter rule for 10 years while he was still alive and done his duty. Abd just genuinely done What needed to be done but even then there would’ve been a lot of upheaval in the realm that he and Rhaenyra would’ve needed to solve and he needed a spine to get the Hightowers in line. It definitely could have been done, but I mean, who knows because this is feudal society and you’ve got some Lords who are reasonable and politically savvy and then you’ve got like Lord like the Lord at storms end that essentially helped start the damn dance in the first place. It had been brewing for years, but that event kicked it off.
Also viserys was not as smart as the old king and the good queen, and he let too many people have dragons the previous monarchs controlled who had a dragon. So even if we didn’t have the dance at this time at some point it would have happened. Just due to having a bad king. Or essentially someone who is not trained to be king and his small council was mostly self-serving.. so a dance would’ve happened at some point just because of that factor.
Either way, I see it as sad and a waste. I hate watching the dragons die. And also the fact that dragons who essentially were bonded together one point or having to fight each other. I mean, I know they’re not real but still.
Both of you guys had really good comments. Don’t know if anyone read all that, but I still do think a dance of some sort would’ve happened whether this generation or a few Kings later. Like you can just go through fire and blood and just circle or highlight like things that help lead to the dance.
It’s sad because the original conquer like his sister wives sat the throne and honestly ruled more than he did. And he was perfectly fine with it and they did a great job like it’s teamwork and instead he didn’t keep his family together or in line. It’s kind of why I wish we’ve gotten the conquest first because he didn’t normally even sit the throne.(Aegon I). But then again he also wanted a son. I honestly can’t remember if it was a son or just an heir in general, I’m doing a reread (but in the middle of a huge move so using audiobook and I’ll sit and read both world books for reference because my library is unpacked but I’m often doing something and there are so many little itty bitty details to catch) but the dance depresses me because both sides were not fit.
@@crinklescat1871 the king's word is law only until he is a king and people would quickly overthrow the king the moment they deem his decisions outrageous and stupid. So tough his word was "law", it really wasn't. People only follow his words if they too agree with his it. In the case of his heir, they don't. So the civil outbreak was bound to occur sooner or later.
@@crinklescat1871 The king's word is law, but even feudal societies have "constitutions" (thought often unwritten and based on custom). The principles of hierarchy of norms still applies: although the king's word may be law, that law can still be "unconstitutional" and thus void. For example, in pre-revolutionary France, the king's powers were still limited by what was called the "fundamental laws of the realm". It would have been absolutely unthinkable for a king of France to designate his heir, even at the cost of a dynastic changes. For instance, king Louis XII only had a daughter. Could he make her his successor? No. The crown instead went to Francis I... who had the good idea to marry Louis XII's daughter. Likewise, two generations later, all the sons of Henry II (brothers Francis II, Charles IX and Henry III) died one after the other without heirs. Could the last one appoint their sister Margaret to be Queen after him? No. The crown instead went to a distant cousin of in the Bourbon branch of the family, Henry IV... who had the good idea to marry Margaret. This is the principle of "unavailability of the crown". Basically, the crown passes from one king to the next by application of the rules of male primogeniture, and nobody, not even the king, can dispose of the crown. It is not theirs to pass down as they see fit. You might even say that it is the crown who wears the king, not the king who wears the crown. Think of it like a trust fund set up many generations ago: when you become the beneficiary, you get to spend the money that the trust produces as you see fit, but you do not have a say about who the next beneficiary is.
Her cast is too pretty. So we can't really hate her 😂
All I gotta say is there better not be any Harrenhal Aemond and Alicent dreams GRRM
My thoughts on the Velaryons in HotD: they made changes that the audience can believe. If your audience doesn't believe it, they won't buy it.
Random and unrelated comment but go off I guess...
Your shorts have to STOP opening with “did you know” when they are completely opinionated, which is not a problem, but is not the same content as when you’d compare storylines or character arcs between text & adaption.
Love both types of shorts but it is not useful for productive/fruitful discussion in fandom.
Tommen and Marcella turned out dead.
The show failed to show her that way.
Except in the show, Alicent, even after her falling out the Rhaenyra, all through season 1 actually champions Rhaenyra's claim over Aegon's to Otto. It is Otto who is constantly pushing her to get Viserys to put the boys before Rhaenyra. It isn't until Viserys is dying and she thinks she hears him say he wants Aegon to be king that she actually starts pushing Aegon to be heir. Yes she does tell Aegon he SHOULD be heir but isn't shown to actively try and put her sons ahead of Rhaenyra, no matter how much she bad mouths her.
This is again, only from season 1 of the show. Haven't seen season 2 or read the books so obviously I'm missing some context considering how little season 1 actually shows of the inter character dramas due to the far too many big time skips. Hell Daerion isn't even shown... maybe not even mentioned in season 1.
Dareon? I thought it was Daeron?
Mommy alicent ❤❤❤
So middle child's are the normal ones, even in westeros, cause they get ignored 😂
Alicent in the show didn’t know her son Aegon was going to be the king so obviously she didn’t show him how to rule. During viserys’ last moments of life she thought he wanted Aegon to be king, this was the only reason why Alicent placed her son on the throne. Not to steal Rhaenyras throne but because she thought that was what viserys wanted. Alicent had never plotted to place her son upon the iron throne until she thought the viserys said so
In season 1, episode 6, Alicent tells Aegon everyone in the realm knows that one day, he will be king. I think this is six years before Viserys dies. So apparently she did know, but unfortunately, still didn't do a single thing to prepare him for it. I'm not sure if this is just poor writing, or if the writers intentionally created this conundrum. But either way, it is extremely odd that she would know and expect him to be king one day, but make no effort to ensure that he could actually be a good king.
@@farktari1183 Ahh you’re right. I completely forgot about that. It’s odd that she supposedly knew and wanted her son to be king and yet she was surprised when the green council had already plotted to put Aegon on the throne without telling her. Maybe she was just surprised that they plotted without her though
@@aegoniii4529I thought in the books she complot with them
What's hilarious is that women hate each other more than anyone
The series' Alicent is a hypocrite in many ways. She and Crispin called off the guards IN STATE OF WAR to have some fun, and then she dared to say something to the traumatized Haelena about duty. She practically didn't raise her children, one grew up to be a rapist and the other to become a criminal. I feel sorry for her fate, in the series she was a child when she got married to a corpse, but the fact that we went through unpleasant experiences does not rule out the fact that we can make bad decisions and be a bad human
In the books she was the one that ordered to close the Gates in King's Landing, she also has more power and Rhaenyra is worse. She told her granddaughter to kill Aegon III after their wedding. This series makes this struggle for throne seem like everything is because of sexism, while in the books Criston Cole conwiced Aegon because 3 Rhaenyra children are bastards and they can't sit on the throne which is better reason.
🤔👉YEAH..SHE DID BRING ALL THIS ON HERSELF..SHE SHOULD HAVE TOUGHT HER KIDS BETTER.. ESPECIALLY HER SON'S.. THEN MAYBE THEY WOULD HAVE MADE MUCH! SMARTER DECISIONS 👈👏👀
Don’t you just love how every bad characteristick Rhyneara or the blacks have is either missing or pinned solely on Daemon. Alicents fear that her children will be murdered when Rheanyra assends the throne is totally legitimate. You can see it in the show as well (of course worded in a way in which most of the audinace wont get it) when her only take away from her bastard taking out the eye of her half brother is that Aemond should be tortured from where did he hear that the Strong boys were well… strong
This take is just bs. Alicent did what she thought was best for her family as did Rhaenyra. Rhaenyra is fighting for her own power and her family, she is not in a crusade for women, neither should be Alicent. They are both women fighting for their own interests and loved ones, which is understandable. The idea that Alicent needs to back up Rhaenyra over her own sons because she is a woman is just so dumb. And you conveniently ignore that she feared for their lives after Viserys' death if Rhaenyra and Daemon came into power.
I won't blame her still. I'd blame Otto anyday of the week for forcing this marriage to recently widowed Viserys.
Otto stopped being an influence over her by the time of the dance. She made her own decisions
LMFAOOOOO
So alicent and Cersei raised their children to be cruel people and only one or two of them is fit to be on the iron throne
She finally realised that she had those power all those year was becz of viserys ..... How ironic nobody want her to have the power after aegon retired 😂😂😂 even that crispy cole
'The Rhaenyra Show' has taken so many liberties with certain plotlines and characters that they're now completely different than how they're portrayed in Martin's novel. Alicent betraying her own children for her 'bestie'🤦🏻♀️, oh boy they ruined that character, book Alicent is far more realistic and her actions make much more sense. What we got in the book: "The city is yours, Princess. But you will not hold it long. The rats play when the cat is gone, but my son Aemond will return with fire and blood." - Queen Alicent Hightower to Rhaenyra Targaryen! What we got on the show: "Here my Queen let me bend my knee to you the rightful Queen, here is all our plans, so you can kill my entire family and my lover, did I tell you you're the best my Queen? You're the best. Take Aegon’s head I don’t care, anything for you my Queen. I will make sure Kings Landing bows to you and you can take Aegon's head, just let me and Helaena live. Wanna go for vacation btw? Team Black for the win." - Alicent to Rhaenyra in episode 8.🤮 I knew this whole I misunderstood my husband’s last words dumb scenario would lead up to this crap, why couldn’t they keep it as in the book where everyone fights for power, well, Condal is the ultimate Rhaenyra simp and his queen has a higher purpose.🙄😬
Her only children who would be maybe good rulers is her daughter and youngest son (idk exactly how to spell their names sorry)
Perfect
THISSSSSSS!!!!!!!
Its Daeron not Daerion!