"AUDIOPHILES ARE SNOBS (with money to burn)"
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- Опубликовано: 2 окт 2024
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Audiophile: "I was listening to these speakers..."
Music lover: "I was listening to this song..."
I went into a local hifi store for the first time the other day. I recently became an audiophile. I happen to know that when I walk in that they might think low about me. I have tattoos all over my face. I’m a local rapper and make plenty of money to afford my lifestyle. The only cool guy was an old man that didn’t care what I looked like. He helped me out. I spent $30,000 that day. And the other guys who gave me dirty looks as I walked in now came up to me and introduce themselves to me. It’s crazy that people judge u on your appearance. Now the old guy calls me when they get new stuff in.
More tolerance. Everywhere. Always.
Won’t be an issue come October in the UK as most of us will be spending our disposable income on energy bills. The snobs will become the ones who have their lights switched on 😂
Well as long as I can power up my CHORD DAVE and his compatriots I’ll survive a bleak winter with a musical hi fidelity accompaniment.
Go buy an expensive Marantz amp that’s sure to keep that warm feeling for winter😂
🤣
Martin 's HI -Fi, Kings Lynn , early 90's. All the staff used to entertain me despite my inability to afford the beautiful sounding kit in there.
The owner used to phone me when trade ins came about, I wouldn't be here now if it wasn't for rhat .
Back in 1986 I bought a new pair of Kef 104/2 reference speakers (now regarded by some as legendary) from a local dealer for £768. My friends (some of them into Hi-Fi themselves) thought I was completely crazy spending so much on speakers. I still own and use them now. I had to get new tweeters and fix the donut foam rot on the woofers and check out the crossovers. But they've lasted me 38 years so far. Good value then!
Well said. But I almost crashed the Bentley listening to that;)
I am not worried, my driver is reliable.
The most underrated comment
A Bentley, your an idiot to pay that much. Any £10 car will get you from A to B... Just not a Bus ticket the poor buy, because they, for some reason get you from D to F
Nice to have a spare.
What you need is a Morris Minor; you'll get a good example for less than a monkey. Bentley's just a Volkswagen and we all know who started that...
Most of their “high end equipment”, especially the newer stuff, is straight up ugly. Looks matter too.
My uncle once bought a bespoke Orvis bamboo fly fishing pole. All the other guys in wading boots in the river had shit eating grins on their faces when they saw my uncles bespoke pole. No one was jealous. No one said his expensive pole wouldn't catch anymore fish than their much cheaper fiberglass poles. They all shared the joy. Why can't audio be like that.
Wow John. I wasn’t expecting that. But I agree 100%. I am a audiophile and have spent 20yrs building up my perfect hifi setup. However, even then it’s just a modest setup (Marantz streamer/ cd and amp, project turntable, 607 S2s, Atacama furniture and QED interconnects and speaker cable) but I am happy with that. As a music fan I can play my 1991 Genesis We Can’t Dance cd in (to my ears) pure sonic nirvana. I love it that the sound is so clear and beautiful- but the songs and cd are still the same when I played it as a 13 year old kid on my Sony ghetto blaster (still the same cd). So yeah, I am now looking to upgrade my CD player to the CD60 when time (and the wife allows on the joint account). It might be next week or in 3 years but it doesn’t;t matter, I will own it one day. And yes, the 1st song I will play on it will be Driving the last spike. Cheers mate- these videos are inspirational to me.
I can think of a much better Genesis track to play, but that's my Genesis snobbery coming out. 😁
As long as there is an audible difference noticeable in a blind test I have no problems with expensive gear. You get what you pay for. I do draw the line at all these magic contraptions with no objectively measurable difference to the sound though.
I do think there's a contingent of people who are victims of the placebo effect of more expensive = better. I personally think these people perceive a different in the unreasonably expensive "high end" equipment because it makes them feel better
I didnt think I would agree with you, but I do. Having pursued a passion for music and film for the last 40 years, I am well aware that some people can afford and choose to spend crazy sums on arguably questionable things. But if they can and it makes them happy, who am I to challenge. I sit on the middle enough spare income to add or swap equipment out now and then, but not enough to excite dealers as a 'good' customer. I usually buy second hand any way - Not sure what that makes me !
I hate the audiophile snobbery, thats why i refuse to associate myself with the term.
I admire your posts even more now. You have said that which needed to be said. I've always been about Peace, Love and Understanding (cheers Elvis Costello) and am an eternal scruff bag, simply because I don't care about clothes, cars and many other aspirational things that others do. I care about high quality and exciting audio reproduction and then save to buy, always paying cash. When younger and starting out I didn't have 2 pennies to rub together above my day to day expenses, then when I became interested in hifi I was subjected to the snobbery highlighted here. Fortunately for me I have a secret weapon, I have high level/functioning autism, meaning that I am totally impervious to this kind of attitude and have no emotional responses when i notice it. Consequently I can go on a 'World Tour' of audio dealerships, listen to what I want, say which equipment I like,or not, listen to punk music at auditions etc etc without being de-focussed on music and sound. My local dealer understands me and lets me get on with it all as they know about my attention to detail etc, even emailing me when they have gear set up and a free slot just to let me listen. Autism, you see has advantages.
Dear John, this is a trully philosophical question and it can be applied on every aspect of our lives. We should think about it more often and thank you for your gentle reminder.
Hi John, I've always wanted to own a so called high end set up like the Chord Dave and a pair of Meze Elite but can't afford them but I have no problem with those that can. We all have our budgets and choices to make so let's all be tolerant of the choices people make at either end and enjoy the music and the gear whatever the price point.
I very much appreciate all the effort you and Olaf put into the videos. I have been lucky to never having dealt with a snob during my life, but your thoughts on internet offensive behavior is spot on. Thank you for taking your valuable time to be a voice for civility.
Necessary words, well said. Thank you...
I agree John. The same need for tolerance of peoples' choices extends well beyond hifi too.
Once I walked into a Magnolia audio and asked for a standard #14 copper speaker cable. They did not have it and suggested another cable of the same gauge but 10x price. I requested the same price, knowing how much it really cost to the manufacturer and that the profit margin was healthy enough. They hesitated ... and then a manager came out and told me that they sell luxury items to people who can afford it, and if I were not one of them, this store was not for me. I laughed, walked out, and drove 5min to a pro audio shop.
Well said!
Sad but true.
Thank you .
Yes I've experienced both.
Especially when it comes to my turntable.
I own a Technics SL-1200G.
Some people look down on it and say that it's just a cheap mediocre turntable, because they own some 15k boutique turntable.
While others say I'm crazy for spending 4k on a turntable, because they own some 500 bucks Hanpin turntable.
Whatever you buy, there's always someone there to tell you it's the wrong thing.
However, I do believe that there's some bottom and top "threshold"...
Where too cheap means there have been cut too many corners by the manufacturer to meet that low price point.
And too expensive means it's mostly paying for looks or brand name.
But the vast majority of products is somewhere in between and those are just a matter of preference.
Those products vary all the way from just cheap up to just expensive.
When I purchased my new hi fi. There are 3 parameters I stick to, 1: Budget, 2: The sound style I'm after, 3: Aesthetics.
As long as I'm happy with all 3 parameters I've set. Then it really doesn't matter if someone else has a different opinion. Surely those in the hobby of enjoying music will enjoy music wether you spend £500 or £50,000. We buy hifi for the love of enjoying music.
John, this was one of my favorite videos you’ve put out. Not only does this apply to this community, but so many communities I’m active in. Thanks you!
I think you presented an accurate overall audiophile or non-audiophile experience. Social media as we know, can be anything but social. As they say, your mileage, and satisfaction may vary.
I "got the bug" in the late 60's. I couldn't afford what my ears were telling me in comparison.
The big box chain, now called Best Buy, was a miniscule starting retailer back in the day. It was called Sound of Music. I imagine this means little or nothing to people outside the US. Its relevance is how they still have me as a customer. My first stereo receiver purchase was a used Kenwood receiver, on a lay-away-plan. Of course they don't do that now, but they wanted to grow a base as well.
The sales people, even the former president of the now huge company, would demonstrate speakers, phono, and amplifier combinations. It was a great way to draw me in as well as learn things I knew very little.
I miss the days of those retail establishments. The market as I know, has completely changed, but it's the many good experiences I've had, from Minnesota to later living in California, where I ran into some very competent and patient people in the trade.
I now repair some of the kinds of equipment that I saw in the 60's and 70's. It has come full circle.
Thanks for your cogent explanation.
Couldn‘t agree more. It all comes down to: Be more polite.
I have a very beautiful experience to share with all of you. In my previous job, I had a colleague who was also interested in this hobby. He told me about this incident and I still think about it. When he was in high school he went into a Bose showroom and was checking out headphones and speakers and was approached by a salesperson. Salesperson could sense that my friend wasn’t there to buy anything but was eager to try out gear and salesperson took friend to the section where all the expensive stuff was kept. My friend clearly told him that he can’t afford it and he is not looking to buy anything and the salesperson said that’s not an issue at all, he can still try out whatever he wants and maybe he can’t afford it today but in future he will earn more and would be able to afford it.
I don’t know about others, but I was genuinely touched by this.
If you are not overbusy it's the sensible thing to do. Exposing someone to the best stuff has the chance to create a desire to work towards getting that stuff, and even if you don't buy from that store keeping people in the game bumps up the whole industry.
I interviewed with a brick and mortar store years ago . It was to manage the store , and when I asked him about improving walk in traffic he said “ those are not my customers” and proceeded to tell me how much money his well healed clients spend on equipment. I never went back
There are a few stores I avoid because they told me, "Unless youre here to drop $X0,000 or more I won't setup a demo for you."
@@HiFiTurtle I would have responded that I indeed intended to drop at least 10 grand. But just now I changed my mind after his disrespectful remarks.
To be… fair. He had this beautiful little high end shop tucked away in a secluded section of businesses, it was cool but I said something to the effect of “ have you ever thought about moving to a location people can see and improve walk in traffic ( he was basing salary off sales). Then he went off. A few years later he moved the place to a street view location. Exactly what I asked him about doing.
I had spent four grand with him a few years before. I was a customer that was told I wasn’t his customer. I liked his employees.
I have another guy now with a high end shop who is a great guy. Even though I can’t afford his stuff ( Magico and Octave among others) he invites me to come hang out all the time . There are good ones.
Hey Doug, not sure if your the same account. But did you buy the ls35a soundartists a year or 2 back? If so, are you still enjoying these? Thinking of picking a pair up you see?
Finally someone called out both sides. “Those 10 grand speakers are way overpriced, you can get better for less than half that!” Oh, so you’ve heard them? No, but…
And you have them in every price class, the ones that claim that 1000 dollar speakers is a waist of money, you can have the same quality for 200 dollars.
Thanks for introducing the term "reverse snob". I finally know how to refer to ASR enthusiasts.
The audiophile perceived value comes 100% from money, as it’s a consumer Hobby, contrary to Productive hobbies for example playing music where the value comes from skill.
Perspective! Thank you for this. I’m blessed and grateful to be able to buy records and enjoy listening to them. There’s so many unfortunate events happening in the world , it’s good to keep it grounded.
It is not only a Hifi Problem…
Absolutely right. Guns, cars, boats, watches etc.
It's the "poors" vs the "high ends" 🤣🤣
I wouldn't dare knock anyone for what they choose to buy or where they are in life. Who am I? We are all in different stages of life and we must live accordingly. I like Ferrari, I like Volkswagen. As the saying goes, if you like it I love it! Neighbor and I were in hail storm. I complained about damage to my truck, he complained about damage to his BMW. He said, imagine how I feel? I thought, no worse than I do! That is a SNOB. Darko this video is about WAY more than audio equipment. Thank you very much!
i agree. To me it starts with this idea of what an "audiophile" is. I believe its simply someone who cares about the way their music sounds There may be all kinds of subsets underneath this big umbrella, which often get argued about, but plain and simple, rich or poor, open baffle versus sealed, beryillium versus silk dome, vinyl vs digital lets all just embrace our love of music and our systems that work best for each of us.
If I had the possibility to give this video a thousand likes, I would. An important point, well made.
I've happily bought two pieces of vintage Nakamichi equipment at reasonable prices. If I had the space, I'd love some giant Infinity speakers. Do it for yourself. IF you can hear the difference, it's worth it.
I find most of my friends that like music but listen to it on "crap" equipment, usually like it in the background as they entertain or do whatever around the house. Few of them sit down to spend time just listening to the music with the music being center of their attention. I do that for hours each week....good topic John.
This is indeed an important factor. Most people listen to music while doing something else. In this case, I would not pour a lot of money into a stereo set.
This is absolutely superb. I enjoy watching all of your RUclips videos, but this is one of the best I have ever seen on all of those I have watched on any subject. You have summarised this subject so eloquently, and thank you for putting it out there for everyone to consider. 👍😁👍
It can be helpful to bring a single vinyl reference level record into any hi end store, and they're all snobs, no question or argument from me, but bringing along a record, even if you're into digital only, is like a "pass badge", it seems to work for me and seems to be gateway toward gaining some instant respect from the "snobs" that want your money.
From what I've seen on You Tube most audiophiles are of an age where their hearing audio response is 5KHz to 7KHz. They espouse how wonderful their systems are whilst sitting in a room that has more echoes than a church. Crazy, bored rich people with nothing else to do. I bought some Jensen SPX9 tower speakers for $700, I used a 'Welcome To The Monkey House' CD by The Dandy Warhols to test the speakers in the HiFi shop. I asked the saleman if I could listen to some $23000 speakers he had set up there and he said sure. I played my CD. I looked at the salesman and said 'to be honest I'm not hearing $22300 worth of difference'. We both laughed.
We love you, John, especially the people from the so-called third world. 🙋🏽♂ I just wanna listen to my favorite tracks loud & clear without mortgaging my house.
Brilliant video, I find in person most people at shows are nice. It's on the internet is where people are intolerant. Your channel is one of the best and you bringing this up just proves it.
Here's the thing about how "good" vs "bad" audio equipment is: It's entirely dependent on the listeners senses, perceptions and preferences, it's about as subjective you can get. Like an Ice cream flavor, lots of people may very well prefer cookies n' cream over truffle oil ice cream, but if you want truffle oil, you have to pay more. I absolutely do think there are lower priced speakers or amps that the majority of people, even industry experts would pick in a blind test over much more expensive ones. However, for the minority who do prefer the more expensive equipment or truffle oil ice cream, there is absolutely nothing wrong with paying more to get the particular thing they want, and they aren't stupid for doing it as long as they aren't sacrificing something more important in order to pay for that more expensive equipment.
At the end of the day humans are humans and we're all looking for an excuses to feel superior , "I paid top dollar for the best thing to suit my refined taste, unlike these Proletariat simpletons", or "I paid 1/4 the price and my widget is just as good. I'm too smart waste my money like those bougie Idiots."
Man now I would like to try truffle oil ice cream sounds so weird but intriguing
I think audiophilia attracts more intolerant people than perhaps the tropical fish or quilting hobbies do. I think the anti-snobs are half insecure about their own inability to fit in or compete with the snooty audio elitists, and half angry about the rude behavior of the audio snobs. I think the snobs are similarly half insecure and half seriously lacking in normal levels of empathy. I think this is a characteristic of people who are drawn to audio as a hobby, much more than it is a problem for the general public. Audiophiles aren't even particularly competitive. It's that there are just an unusually large group of them who are woefully lacking in social skills, obsessive, pedantic, rude, rigid, and generally intolerant.
I will probably never afford to buy anything reviewed on this channel but I love the hobby enough to enjoy the seeing the progress made. I still have my Diamond 9.1 speakers as my main system
Nice one. I'm still running my 20 year old Kef codas and NAD amp. Just bought a second hand Chinese mini chip amp off eBay for £14. I'll have to see if I can cope with the downgrade in sound quality but the power draw is so much lower it's worth a go now energy is so damn expensive.
I have experienced hifi snobbery so many times in my life that now the thought of walking into a hifi store makes my skin crawl. I live in New York City and there are still a few hifi stores here but they don't want me to walk in and that's fine with me. Another thing is that these stores don't stock products, they don't invest in inventory. When you're dealing with salespeople who work on commission what do you expect? I saw a youtube video made by an expensive audio products dealer in Canada and the salesperson in the video said that if you love music you must spend tens of thousands of dollars on hifi gear. How about if you love music spend your money on concert and recital tickets? Travel to another country to check out a famous opera house or other venue.
Hifi gear gives you the option to use repeated times with countless pieces of music.
I never let price, people or brands reflect what I enjoy or don't enjoy, what sounds good to me and what doesn't. I have been lucky enough to be able to try so many components in my journey to make my own conclusions that price doesn't matter all that much if it makes you happy. That's coming from someone who had 40k wrapped up in my main system, but enjoys a desktop system in my office that costs less than $900 just as much if not more.
1000% agree.. maybe your best video ever
A breath of fresh air just blew through the Audiophile community. Thank you for saying what needed to be said. Your position on matters like this, is in large part what makes me a loyal subscriber.
I'm into birding. My binocular is more expensive than my hifi system ☺️
Is that legal.
Thanks, John. This is a great hobby, no matter how much you spend. The lower and mid level systems have never sounded better and the same could be said for the higher priced systems. The key is - enjoy the music - which has always been your guiding principle.
Wow! This was the best explanation for something I've felt for years. I like nice things. I am slightly older and have some disposable income, so I can indulge my liking for nice things.
I like Apple products. I just watched this video on my iPad and writing this comment on my Mac mini with the Apple Display. The reviews of the Apple Display were brutal, with so many comments about why you don't need native 5K, how the camera was rubbish (it's not great, but hey we're doing zoom calls!) and how anyone who buys it is an idiot who's been taken for a ride by Apple. It is an overpriced display for what it does. It looks excellent, has amazing build quality, speakers that are second to none and I could afford it. Yet I'd be marked as an idiot for buying one.
I have the littlest Audi that they sell in Australia, but I bought the most expensive version of their littlest car. It's the same as a Polo GTi and $15k more expensive. It's arguably the same car, but with different styling and interior. But everything else (engine, gearbox, hard points, suspension) is the same. Is it a waste of money? Well, on a trip to the UK recently I drove a i20 and it was a hugely fun car and would be half the cost of my little Audi. Would owning an i20 give me the same sense when parked in the garage? Absolutely not.
Does all of this make me somewhat shallow? Probably. Do I care? Somewhat, because we all hate being judged. Can I change other people? No and I need to accept that.
Thanks for such a thoughtful video.
That can be applied not only when talking about audio gear choices but in many other things in life! Wise words!
What happen to me here in Berlin, Germany, was that the owner of a hi-fi store (elektrowelt24 deutschland) was so rude, on whole new level to me, as a newcomer into hi-fi world.
I ordered Q-Acoustic 3050i which cost around 800e and part of the speaker box was dented, slightly damaged. It wasn't terrible, but it was near the driver, on the front. I reported that, requesting a new shipment, but then the owner was so pissed on me, that he said "this is so tiny, you cannot expect to buy such cheap speakers and to demand them to be perfect. This is not a Ferrari."
Sorry that I expect NOT to receive damaged speakers, no matter how much they cost :/
Good to know.
I won’t be ordering there then.
Definitely avoid him despite seemingly decent offers. He's a proper prick with an unacceptable attitude for a salesman. Another one of his "shticks" is to regularly advertise speakers for decent prices as directly available and in-stock on his website that really aren't. After you've ordered the desired pair of speakers he messages you to inform you the pair is no longer available unfortunately. The status of the out of stock speakers never changes however. Ever. He then tries to upsell you a "newer, better (and always more expensive)" pair instead.. If there is anything wrong with the order (shipping damage, issue at manufacturing, certainly things out of your reach) he tries to guilt-trip you for RMA or just talk down to you.
Hi John, this maybe the most important and valuable video I have watched on your channel. And I think I barely missed any. Thank you for this!
Well said. And may I add that’s it’s no one’s business how I decide to spend my money. I earned it and I have to live with the decision of what I bought with it.
I'd rather spend my money on vinyl or CDs. It's all about the music for me.
Apply tolerance to everything . Couldn't have said it better.
This broadcast resonated with me, as I was on the receiving end of such snobbery when I was a young (but pretty well versed) audiophile.
It was the year of The River, the year of Boy - it was 1980: I was living in San Clemente California with my lovely young ex-wife. I was a 23 year old unrepentant hippie and already a committed audiophile. I had been befriended by the US. importer of QLN loudspeakers - Michael ... - whom I met through a colleague of hers (the bastard who poached her). Michael proceeded to blow our minds with some exquisite gear of the time (e.g. Win Labs turntable and strain gauge cartridge, EAR Preamp/phono stage, Mark Levinson amps, etc.). He also imported Opus 3, so the recordings available to me were astonishing. Plus, he was an excellent cook and had awesome weed…
Michael took me under his wing, helping me to build a very nice system for very modest money. It began, of course, with a pair of QLN Model 1’s. He recommended that I replace the Sure V15 Mk III phono cartridge I’d mounted on my Marantz 6300 turntable with a Promethean Green (a modified Grado). He also acquired for me - at manufacturers accommodation - an NAD 7020. Cabling by Monster.
I began devouring Stereophile and The Absolute Sound. It was like cocaine.
Soon enough I got the upgrade itch, beginning with a profound lust for a Sumo The Nine Amplifier (which I loved but eventually tired of repairing…) and, to the point, a new turntable. My constant reading directed me to two finalists that I could barely afford; the Linn Sondeck and the SOTA Sapphire. I phoned all the ‘stereo stores’ in my county searching for these prizes, finding one which carried the Linn and another the SOTA.
Hav... and Har... of Huntington Beach (long gone) carried the Linn and was my first stop, as I was leaning toward it. I was greeted with some suspicion as I walked in the door with my long hair, Levis and Yes T-shirt, but the button-downed salesman seemed to relax a bit spotting my stack of Opus 3’s. I described my system and told him that I was there to listen to the Sondek/Ittok deck through something comparable. Sniff. Of coarse they had nothing quite so modest, but would allow me to audition it through the system in which it was installed.
I got through one side of the Opus 3 Test Record - Depth of Image and was shut down. The Linn sounded fine and I was very interested, but I had some questions regarding it’s famously finicky setup and sometimes iffy oil-pump bearing. The salesman quickly became irritated with me, and interrupted me saying “if you don’t like it, but something else”. Exactly; whatever I do buy, it won’t be from him.
Next weekend I visited Absolute Audio of Laguna Beach to hear the SOTA. Two 30 - something guys were hanging out listening to some cool tunes as I entered - the owners. I described my mission and my system, and they happily re-arranged their setup to approximate my own.
I don’t remember the electronics, but the speakers were Rogers LS3/5 A’s and the object of my desire was set up with a Syrinx PU3 tonearm and Koetsu Black (!) cartridge. The sound was awesome! Similar in balance to my own system but with much greater resolution, although the dynamic range was limited. We listened and talked for a couple of hours. I explained this was a financial stretch for me and that I’d like to take a week to think about it and consult my wife. I asked if it would be OK for me to bring my QLN’s up to compare to the Roger’s. They were eager to hear them. Through the week we had a couple of phone conversations. I needed to get the price down. I would continue to use my Promethean cartridge for a while. They had Syrinx LE1 arm that would save me just enough to enable my purchase!
Early that Saturday, July 23th, 1983, I arrived with the QLN’s. I helped with the setup, trying to get it close to what I was doing at home. It didn’t take long and we fired it up. The sound was glorious - definitely better than the previous weekend even with the lesser arm. We swapped back in the Rogers, and discovered that they were clearly inferior to the QLN’s. We were delighted! Back to the QLN’s, we listened well into the afternoon. I wrote the check, we packed up the SOTA and loaded them into my car (along with the QLN’s) and after my giving them Michael’s contact info I headed home eager to set things up.
Since Absolute Audio also had an excellent stock of records, I dropped by there often until they closed.
I still use that SOTA regularly. When the Syrinx arm failed (turns out it’s bearings were infamous for irreparably sticking - although I tried) I bought a ZETA Van den Hul from them.
The arrogance, disrespect, and even contempt on the part of one ‘high-end’ audio dealership cost them not just one highly profitable sale, but also the loyalty of a happy satisfied customer. Neither did I keep my experience there to myself. My group of audiophile friends, numbering 7 at the time, also avoided Hav... and Har.... None of them ever bought a Linn.
Conversely, Absolute Audio welcomed me as a new friend and loyal customer ‘til the end.
The aspect of people having audio hi-fi systems that confuses me is the preference for the cheap ear phones, mono tinny speaker from mobile devices and mono smart speakers, particularly with the young and old, when in the same room there is a far better stereo hi-fi system. If you have nothing better or you are out and about, working in a different room then fine. But listening to a movie from the worst TV speakers ever when a flick of the switch they can use the hi-fi system that is in the same room. I know, their choice. They even acknowledge their hi-fi sounds much better. But can't explain why they don't use it.
I just recently watched a video about someone who owned a $380,000 turntable. It was certainly a nice table and looked great. However, it would be wasted on me. I'm 70 and the ears aren't what they used to be. But that doesn't mean I didn't appreciate the equipment or held any negative feelings. If my last name was Musk this would be pocket change.
Wow John. As some of your German friends may say: „…das war eine Punktlandung!“. HiFi beauty is in the individual eyes/ears of the beholder/listener. This video of yours will be remmebered and watched for much time to come. You and Olaf keep up the great work. Always a pleasure to watch, listen and learn. You actually provoked my first comment on your channel (I‘ve been watching for an eternity)! Otherwise I just enjoy hanging back and „lurking“ ; -). Keep this kind of stuff coming. The industry and humans need it!
im a store owner and if had that condersending attitude toward my new entry level customers id never see any new business . Please remember we all started at the bottom and i remember working all summer just to but a new piece of HiFi . But i agree that certain customers have Snobby Attitudes" espically when they get together they all start getting their willys out and saying my WILLY is BIGGER than yours its inevitable ! I try had show customers how good older used items perform and what great value they are compaired to the entry point items you can buy that leave me cold
Nice one John.Long story short-People are flawed.The effort to be more tolerant makes the world a better place for all of us.
My ex girlfriend thought I was weird buying hifi instead traveling to a sunny country 😆
She was right
agree, you`ve nailed it, something we should all keep in mind
John I own what is generally regarded as entry level hi fi. However I still feel pressure from my wife who doesn’t share my love of music vinyl etc. she can’t understand why I would want to upgrade? Basically her reaction is what’s wrong with what you’ve got etc! I’ll let you know her reaction when I call her an inverted snob!!! 😉
She’s your wife so tread with caution 😊
I live in the world of budget Hi-Fi but love reading and watching videos of High End systems and the Ultra High End and if someone feels spending that sort of money plus spending £1000 + on cables make a difference it's their money i'm never going to judge them only thing i get the hump about is that i'm never ever going to get a invite to pop round to have a listen
I’m lucky enough to earn well but I’ve got three kids… I could spend a lot more on audio equipment but every purchase must be carefully considered.
That’s why channels like yours are important, John. You cater for all levels.
Remember all, toxicity is not confined to the audio communities; it’s in football, video gaming, films, photography etc etc. Sometimes I find the internet incredibly exhausting and excluding.
Great video.
In addition to tolerance, an open minded attitude to all things audio is much more fun/interesting.
I'm lucky to be beyond an Aiyima amp these days and I will never own a DCS Bartock but I want to know about both because it can raise all sorts of knock on subjects like Op-amp rolling or what higher end gear can achieve.
Every day is a school day if you want it to be.
I stopped using my local audiophile shop for a similar reason, I wanted a new turntable and I was very interested in the Kuzma turntable I found out that my local store was going to have them in so I gave him my card telling him that I wanted one. I waited and I was never invited to the listening session I thought they would want as many customers as possible for a over two grand turntable but then someone said I was not the customer they wanted. This attitude has followed me around lots of stores as I would book a session arrive and sometimes there is an issue with the equipment and they have to cancel I believe that it could be genuine but It happens too often, Book and Cover has its issue I now will buy online.
In the UK the average customer of audiophile equipment takes months to decide so the sales staff are always polite and can see when a customer is serious and careful in their choices. Many have customers coming back for 50 years and telling their friends just to call in and see/hear for themselves.
The audio shop is the loser and you are the winner !
Thank YOU John! Well said. People show their “ assets” on line no matter what one’s interest is. Think its bad with audiophiles it’s no different on the BMW Audi or anything else site that can allow a snob can’t act out. Snobbery is a psychological phenomenon that is derived solely from unresolved deep unresolved fears . I’m a LPC retired from the VA and people’s fears eventually emerge as a behavioral symptom. Sometimes being sob, or for some is meh.. who cares, to a more Traumatic individuals as the fear may become very hurtful when projected . If someone one appears angry, ask them what about your comment(s) caused them fear. Then wait. It’s amazing the results! 😮😊
I’ve spent thousands upon thousands of dollars to build a HIFI system that I love. Yes it is empowering and liberating, but I’d never use my Hi-Fi accomplishments as leverage to be a condescending, snobbish prick towards someone who is interested in the hobby. That is just some kind of awful.
I think inverted snobbery is quite often a form of jealousy. About tolerance and respect I have a little story for you. About a year ago I sold our table and chairs second hand for € 150 ( do not worry it was not to fund another hifi purchase : we just bought a new table and chairs 😏) The guy who finally bought it saw my hifi set in our living room and asked me if it was a lyngdorf. I immediately knew this guy knew something about hifi so we started talking. When I asked him what speakers he had, he first did not want to tell me because he was afraid of the reaction he would get. I told him I was not that kind of person so he told me. Turns out he had speakers worth more than € 100 K driven by heavy passlabs monoblocks ! So you clearly see where he had his priorities: clearly not on furniture 😎. But I respected his point of view and he respected mine ( my set is € 5K btw).
To come back on inverted snobbery : it is also quite often a form of not accepting that hobbies can be very different. I see quite a lot of people spending ridiculous money on their car and that is fine by me if that makes them happy. But when you tell them you spend € 5K on your hifi they look at you and you can see in their face they’re thinking : are you serious??? Bloody hell I am …
Audiophile snobbery is like driving on the interstate (motorway.) Everyone driving slower than you doesn't know what they're doing and everyone driving faster than you is a lunatic. Substitute "spending less" for "driving slower" and "spending more" for "driving faster" and and there you have it. 😄
Good points that needed to be said. It has always amazes me how people who sell high ticket items assume everyone has the money or values a product to the sellers level. Sure if money were no object… but in a real world situation it’s a balance to discretionary income and value.
Should change the term Audiophile to Audio Enthusiast... Audiophile has such a elitist feel to it...🤔
Or even Music enthusiast. Hopefully, in the end, it´s the music we love to hear and spend money on. As much as our budget admits. This was a great topic, well chosen and well put!
What should not be overlooked is the common threads. That any money is being spent shows an interest in the hobby and that should be supported by those who are also hobbyists. What I can't afford is to feed the ego of someone with an insatiable appetite for validation. I do not possess enough currency for that pursuit.
Many in sales work on commission. That may add to the snob factor when interfacing with a client.
It's with hi-fi and with everything else in LIFE... THANK YOU 🙏
John, that's such a good video. It makes me want to share a story. I rented a warehouse-style apartment in Amsterdam with a phenomenal audio system. I wanted to create a similar system in my London home. I went to a specialist store near Tottenham Court Rd, where I was told that the system I was listening to was £75k (we're talking 1999 money), so I set a budget limit of £25k. Then I told the salesman that I am deaf in my left ear (I have fancy hearing aids to correct it), and he said "I'm not selling you £25k of audio kit. You would be wasting your money. Go to B&O and spend £8k. Far better for you" So I did. I still have the BeoLab speakers which I use in my Sonos system. I wish I knew the guy's name - he clearly wasn't an audiophile snob!
I love my lower-buck system but totally respect high dollar systems. I could spend more than I do but that’s part of the fun *for me*. I could see the joy in buying the very best possible too.
Yes, part of the joy is that journey. New items, new combinations and ultimately listening and enjoying it!
Your comments are equally applicable to other hobbies involving technology. Unfortunately, my hobbies are synthesisers and associated recording studio equipment, photography and Hi-Fi which often means I don't have enough disposable income to go round all three, or I prioritise one or two over the other(s). I've not even mentioned bills or family commitments and partner's expectations. Inverted snobs and snobs are everywhere, in all hobby communities. For those who can afford high ticket items, go fill your boots, for those who cannot I wish you luck in finding appropriate alternatives. There are many routes to happiness and enjoyment. Nice video Darko Audio.
Well said and thanks much for introducing the concept of "inverted snobbery". It is sadly too common in social media platforms. Too bad I was not aware there was a definition of it.
I never really understood people criticising how other people spend their own money. 27 years ago I spent over £5.5K on a HiFi system (Meridian). I spent about a year saving, researching and listing to demos. When I made up my mind and plunged ahead with the purchase. All my friends and family thought I was totally crazy as I knew nothing about HiFi, and still don’t. By listening, using your own ears and not a magazines, you can decide for yourself what sounds better to you. No question. If if doesn’t sound good (to you) then don’t buy it, simple. Why spend £1K when something else for £500 sounds as good or even better. Try not to be swayed by brands.
Anyway, 27 years later. I still have the same system today. I listen to it everyday and host about 4-5 very loud parties each year. The only upgrade being a Bluesound Node 2i to add streaming and multi room capabilities. The reason why I spent so much was I wanted two things. Clarity and power. It’s very difficult to find power cheaply. Most systems harden and are fatiguing when you crank up the volume. Something I always hear at parties and I didn’t want that. The point is, this is one of the best purchases I ever made other than my home and in my view, money well spent because I love music and have never felt the need to constantly upgrade because I was satisfied with my original purchase and my dealer was very good. My family and friends by the way have probably spent the same money, if not more over the same years changing their systems that are nowhere near and just don’t last. Don’t worry about snobs or inverted snobs just do you.
A lot of people will spend lots of money on other things without a thought.
WELL SAID!! 👍👍
I've experienced both.... Snobbery from hifi shop owners, and inverse snobbery from friends and family, and found myself thinking that I have to justify my values to both sets of people....
I'm happy with my choices and my own skin - the skin of a rather boring middle aged man, desperately trying to fill the void of my disappearing "youth" by filling it with wonderful music! 😂🤷♂️😂
The very strange shape of the room that my HiFi is in means going too crazy would just be a waste. The expense of moving does not add up for just better sound.
Oh, how I love to be judged on just how I dress or look. Good customer service goes a long way for me. I will drive 50 miles out of my way just for that.
My first hifi shop experience was a place in Virginia, where I was welcomed warmly and the guys at the store showed me all kinds of crazy expensive stuff. Couldn't afford any of it at the time, but was always impressed by how friendly and welcoming it was. A fun afternoon. Years later, similar store in NYC, I felt like I couldn't get arrested -- and I had the budget to spend that time.
I've gotten most of my equipment via the internet with careful attention to reviews and ignoring the many kooks online in comments sections. Overall, I do not feel it is an approachable hobby between cost and the endless tweaking required. I know I don't have the patience for that. I netted out with a system that is around $15K and seems to be the sweet spot for me. Any more and the equipment just seems uglier and more intrusive to my living space. 🕊
Out of maybe 50 or 100 people I interact with regularly I am the only one with any stereo equipment. Mine is all used and inexpensive, but the vast majority of people think their cell phone speaker or tv speakers are all they need. Any HIFI gear is a luxury.
Such a great video! 👊
I have an similar Situation. I own a 3500 Euro Bicycle. It*s a bike used by people who travel the World. It is not ugly, but form follows function.. no bling bling. I always have to explain why I need such a expensive bike .. But i use it every Day and it is nearly undestroyable. The bicycle lanes here are sometimes very bad. Do I NEED it? No, but i can always rely on it. After 15000km no breakdown, no problems.
There are people out there that are happy to live in an empty apartment/flat, with only a single chair and massive expensive hifi. That's their choice and that's fine but I'd rather have a comfortable bed and a good pair of shoes.
John, Very very well said.
In addition to audio, I also love collecting art, pottery, cookware, gardening, travel, et al. So I buy good, not best hifi once, never upgrade unless repair can’t be done and allocate my other money to my other aforementioned hobbies. And I enjoy everything.
I agree, and every hobby has the snobs and inverted snobs. I have too many hobbies to pour every dollar of disposable income into just hifi. I enjoy hearing about someone's $50 acquisition as well as someone's $50,000 acquisition.
It’s about what I want to use the audio equipment for I have to aim for a budget. My set up is both a radio studio a video editing suite and a listening station. It’s neither HiFi or audiophile. It’s working equipment that has a purpose.
Brilliant talk / sermon - thank you.
I used to own a musical instrument store in Sydney and we occasionally came into contact with a variation of the inverted snob - the perennially aggrieved. The world was out to get them and every business was trying to “rip them off”. It doesn’t help that there are real rip offs out there, often perpetrated by so-called pillars of society. (Did you follow the Australian royal commission into banking?) But my experience in both the hi-fi and musical instrument industries is that most participants are not there to get rich. They are motivated foremost by a love of music and/or technology. There are far less risky ways to make serious money.
The audiophile snob is a cousin of the music snob. I am definitely not an audiophile snob but I might be Losing My Edge. I might be the worst offender on music snobbery, I worked at a record store in college in the late 80s and early 90s.
This is why I buy equipment that makes me happy and at the same time I don't share my choices with "friends". I don't care what they might think. Typically I don't exceed the point of significant diminishing returns to avoid those large over blown price tags. No worries, that way I'm always happy with my stuff. Thanks for your videos.
Over blown price tags seem to be the normal for gear now. By inflation over 40 years of 4.2 x but in hi-fi terms it is 10x or even more. e.g. Roger LS3/5A where 189GBP in Jan 1981, second hand now around 750-1200GBP but new at 2750GBP . A lot more "highly expensive" equipment and hundreds of times more low end and budget hi-fi gear. The choice is available but the places to go to hear it fewer and rarely have more then one of your short list to review.
Yes Steve it's all about your personal satisfaction that counts, after all its your hard earned money. We all have our own budgets and finding that sweet spot of diminishing returns, that I consider affordable is for me where its at !
I think what you're really driving at is the expression of contempt from both types of snobs. That needs to stop. Not only does it hurt feelings unnecessarily, but it's bad for the audio business. If you're happy with your Crosley, that's fine by me. If you want to spend $3K on cable risers, enjoy. Thing is, we're talking about audio, and sure, the graphs may rise higher or lower for different gear, but ultimately the sound you hear is in your head, and your head only. That's why I think we need not only more tolerance, but more humility. I envy those just starting their audiophile journey. The quality of entry level gear has never been better. And the audiophile journey is eternal: no matter how great you think your system is, if you want to pursue it, there's always room for improvement. And that's part of the joy of this hobby!