Btw, translated the Wingdings. The ones that appear mid-Alphys discussion says: "W.D. GASTER Next Week Deltarune Video. Like. Share." The ones at the end say: "See you next week". I'm hyped
Lawfull GOOD not LAWFUL good. Same with Chaotic good. Good takes priority. A chaotic good will often absolutely go with the lawful option if it means supporting good.
@@rdmrdm2659 Exactly! And when it comes down to it, Undyne has never commited an act she considers amoral - hells, she has hardly committed any acts that anyone may consider amoral. The only cause for debate is the very possible acquisition of the human souls, which she has justified lawfully and makes exemptions for when the human in question is, to her perception, undoubtedly innocent.
@@rdmrdm2659 lol I thought you were correcting spelling when you spelt lawfull differently in both and I was about to rage on you for correcting grammar
33:26 Undyne has determination to resist death regardless of the route you're playing. It's just that her determination is stronger at the genocide route because she has even stronger desire to stop you because she knows what you'll do if she doesn't.
Yea, undyne being the most determined monster despite determination becoming unstable if a monster has it when they die (or are about to) might just be something undyne can do. Also what might be the biggest misconception about sans, he openly admits he CAN'T remember through loads, but he does have ways of figuring out if someone can do so (such as passwords and really good insight, being able to tell how many times he has killed you based purely on your expressions (up to around 10)) 36:00
I'm just going to put Chara's alignment here. At the beginning of their story, they are taken in by the Dreemurr family and become siblings with Asriel. It's implied that Chara truly loved their family and only wanted the best for them. I'd put them in neutral good, but then they make a plan to gather 6 human souls to free everyone. They want to do the wrong thing for the right reason, but spares their family of having to die such a painful death. This is probably between neutral good and true neutral. I'm going true neutral. After they and Asriel are killed by the humans, they are so confused as to what to do or what they should've done. Therefore, they are true neutral when Frisk falls down. You show them what they should to depending on your actions throughout the game. In a neutral run, they stay neutral. Pretty obvious. In a pacifist run, they help you free everyone by translating dialogue for you and saving Asriel. This would put them in neutral good. On the genocide run, you push them to the point that they become numb and killing is all they know. This puts them in chaotic evil. Chara is such a fascinating character, and I love how they directly mirror your choices throughout the game.
@@TheLoadingCrew I think that Chara at heart is just a misguided child, and it's our responsibility to show them what to do. This results in them being absolutely terrifying and undeniably evil in a genocide route (although it kinda is our fault), or heartbreakingly tragic on a pacifist route. For me, learning this recontextualized the entire Asriel fight, because all throughout the game Chara has been narrating, but that's really it. But when it comes time to save Asriel, it's their memory that makes him remember himself. If you'll notice, Chara also takes control away from us at the end of a pacifist run. While in the genocide run they press fight without our input, in the pacifist run the only option we have is to save Asriel. It makes an already tearjerking sequence ten times as beautiful and sad.
@@TheLoadingCrew thats always what the "Chara is good" argument has been though. Thats all they are trying to say. Infact, the name of the idea is kind of a misnomer. Its less Chara being good and more Chara not being evil except In the genocide route. People claiming Chara as entirely good has just been people overcorrecting.
@@--CHARLIE-- no chara wanted asriel to kill the humans but he dindt at all thats why chara is mad at the monsters becuase she is just fucking evil and petty
I respected asgore before this even more than sand but now I respect for him has increased to the point that he's my favorite character A king who has lost everything, the war, his son's and his wife but still tries to give his people hope . That is what I call a true king
@@exi_m7074 hell, I hate humanity too, can’t blame them. In fact, one of the things I hate about humanity is that some people would’ve use He or Her instead of them, and then used “It’s just a fictional character” as an excuse.
loving it, you used chara's as a scapegoat, like so many other people in the fandom. Nah, wasn't me who deleted all my videos, it was chara Nah, wasn't me who murderised every monster in sight, it was chara
Eh, depends on your interpretation. You are told to name Chara after yourself, so Chara could be considered the in-game equivalent to the player. This is you. This is what you've become.
Eh... when I did the Genocide Route, I didn't do so out of curiosity and boredom. I did it because I resented the monsters and their hypocritical worldviews and pretentious arguments. I enjoyed killing Toriel, Papyrus, Undyne, Mettaton, Sans, Asgore, and Flowey. Chara had nothing to do with it, and when I got to the Fallen Child... I nodded at their annoying speech and then exited out of the game window.
I would actually label Flowey as Lawful Evil, and here's why; His "Kill or be Killed" ideology influences all of his actions, and he truly believes that he is in the right.
Interesting take, but Personally, I would still call him Chaotic Evil: maybe Netral Evil. Also, I'm not giving flowey a pass and and calling him True Netral, because "It's just his nature."
Flowey also tries to enforce this code onto the player by psychologically manipulating them. The constant taunting and teasing in the Neutral and Pacifist endings about how if only we had listened to him, our friends wouldn't be in danger.
Actually i would say muffet is lawfull evil, due to 3 facts 1: she regretd no having captured alphys and turned her into food 2: after been told you have not harmed any spiders she lets you go, despite knowing that you killed dozens of monsters 3: its implied to have turned monters into food
Side note, I don't think undyne was ever injected with DT, mostly because if you kill her in a neutral playthrough, she melts regardless. I think undyne is actually just that determined. (This would also imply that over ambitious monsters just fookin die).
8:11 Papyrus is often labeled as a narcissists but that is incorrect, he thinks of EVERYONE as like himself, he also does not think himself better of the king, he holds everyone, including his brother, to that regard. Lawful Good, as he does capture you, albeit, without killing you like the others, hence the good part, he does stop, but only after you've beaten him. 9:44 Lesser Dog and most of the dogs have to be Lawful good, as they do their duty, but are easily distracted, being easily distracted does not make you chaotic. Doggo, Lawful good, pet the good boi. 10:16 Dogamy, Lawful Good, loyal to Dogaressa and if you kill her he gets depressed and doesn't really attack, laying down and accepting death. Dogaressa, Chaotic Good, loyal to Dogamy and if you kill him she flies into a violent rage and fights to the death to kill you for killing her husband, this act is not to save monster kind but a spiteful revenge, however much it's deserved, this makes her chaotic. 14:11 Bob is True Neutral, he doesn't attack, just talks, and clearly unlike the temmies he talks normally, he's doesn't do anything evil and doesn't do anything good, just tells you his name. 17:59 Mettaton is definitely the chaotic neutral bard, he goes along with the plan for Alphys but upon thinking of the human world and wanting to go there decided that he wants the humans soul, while he is doing this to prevent the war it is for a selfish reason; to be a star in the human world. 20:24 Muffet is Lawful Evil, attacking the human because they didn't support their cause or because they hate spider, rumors which she heard from the grape vine with no evidence, oh, and she pressured a man into breaking the bank and buying her overpriced healing items, which might I remind you are HEALING in this world, she's like the American healthcare system and we all know that's Lawful Evil And finally at the end Chara is Lawful Neutral, they only take action to make you do what you have been doing and live with the consequences, they do bad things but were never terrible, just a naughty child, they also did good things, like wanting to save the monsters from the underground and even sacrificing themselves to do so, they DID want to, or were ok with, killing several humans, but I'd argue Lawful Neutral as they make you do what your actions have lead to if you go on the genocide route so you don't try to weasel out of your ending by resetting, they show you your actions have consequences and you can't just take it back. Lawful Neutral because they hold you for your actions, they even offer a deal to get the game back, but never let you forget what you did.
I totally understand your position on Alphys, and to some degree, she definitely deserves it. But I personally view her as a very... damaged(?) character, at least... in terms of mental health. She might not have had to children die or have the whole world on her shoulders like Asgore, but that's not really needed to have poor mental health. Rather, she seems to suffer from some combination of anxiety, depression, and what is either high-functioning autism or ADHD. She also seems to be a compulsive liar. While we don't know a lot about her home life before becoming the royal scientist... I unfortunately relate to her actions a lot as someone who has a similar combination of problems I'm constantly trying to work past and will never fully be over because they're part of my brain... so I don't think it's necessarily fair to be as harsh as you were to Alphys. Yes, she'd done some really, really shitty things. But, based on her actions and dialogue in-game, as well as my own experience, she likely beats herself up CONSTANTLY over every little thing she's ever done wrong. And she's probably in a mental loop where she keeps trying to be an overachiever to make up for her past mistakes while lying about what she's done because she's too terrified of facing the music. While that might sound terrible... as someone who grew up with lots of abuse (mental, emotional, physical, and spiritual) for the smallest of mistakes, I can relate to this. I have issues with being a chronic liar to the point that even stupid little things like watching a cool youtube video can end up being lied about, all because of the abuse I faced as a child. Sorry, this has gone on a bit too long. I'll continue watching, but... that tirade against Alphys really hit me hard because it felt like you were calling ME a shitty person, since I relate unfortunately closely to her.
I hesitate to reply to this for lots of reasons but obviously I am not calling you those things personally. I can relate to Alphys a lot, hiding and being scared of your screw ups and my wife has pointed out that I tend to hate people that remind me of me (if you saw the ending I have lots of digs at myself as well). If you identify as Alphys, that's cool. She's done some great things and she is an interesting character at the very least (the genocide ending and her becoming queen in one ending is evidence that she has some depth to her). However, there is a point where she has garnered a significant position of power and she has responsibilities to a significant portion of people that she can't cower from and I don't respect that. Having low self esteem and depression is excusable to a point until lives are on the line. And from a narrative, like...her actions get hand-waved waaay too easily. That whole "oh she's sad, so it's okay" or "well it all worked out in the end" really doesn't fly with me. In an age where we take our fiction very seriously as a means to communicate a message, the way the narrative treats Alhpys' mistakes like she forgot to file her taxes on time is irresponsible. But since her profession is just a narrative device to smooth over some lore, I'm not gonna harp on it. The game's themes are friendship and mercy so from a meta sense Alphys is just someone that doesn't gel with my sensibilities. Hope you feel better dude. Obviously, I'm not attacking you personally. That portion of the video was about Alphys and Alphys alone, not people like Alphys or even similar to Alphys. Cheers dude. Thank you for the comment :) hope you enjoy the deltarune video
" well I may have murdered 42 people and merged their souls together to where they suffer and eternal Agony for the rest of well eternity, lying to their families time and time again. And bragging to my king that I created a soul from scratch when in reality I fused a ghost with some metal, and then down the line emotionally manipulated a poor defenseless child. But it's okay because I have autism and anxiety. So don't criticize me about my behavior cuz I can't control it" - 🤡
@@necroyt6540 What the hell are you talking about??? She didn’t kill anyone let alone murder, all the people who were used on her experiments were already agonizing by the time they got to her and unless I’m remembering wrong they were all volunteers. Furthermore, they’re not “in eternal agony” they’re disabled, their attitudes were like that when we encountered them because they were hungry and had speech impediments so they couldn’t communicate with us what was wrong. If you backtrack and speak to them and their families m every single one of them is happy to be alive and to be able to be with their families again. Alphys’ only crime here was taking so long to tell people what happened, but with all the pressure that was put on her and with how terrified she was of what she did to those people it’s no wonder she was so hesitant to do it. In regards to your second point, come on, this is Alphys we’re talking about, when has she ever bragged about any of her accomplishments, in every single on screen instance of one of her inventions being praised its other people who are doing the praising, the farthest she goes with trying to make anyone think any good of her is when you enter the core and she tries to convince you that she knows what she’s doing, and really, in that instance she was mostly just trying to convince Herself that she was in control of the situation (because she did not want you to get hurt due to her incompetence). Either way, that interaction is only ever referenced by Catty and Bratty, which are not reliable narrators and were definitely missing most of the context there, no one can say for sure what happened that time. I do agree that what she did to the player was fucked up, but during the entire time she’s guiding you through Hotland, she does everything in her power to ensure that you don’t get hurt, this doesn’t justify her actions but you’re making it out to be as if she just purposefully hurt this random child for no other reason than to satisfy her own ego, which is just. Not true???? Your last line is honestly the most ridiculous part of the entire thing, she has never asked anyone not to criticize her nor will she ever do such a thing, you might hate her but you can’t even come close to how much she hates herself, the reason why she even do any of those things was because she was terrified of people hating her as much as she did herself, but when she finally comes clean she fully accepts the consequences of her actions, she looses her job for telling the truth and she doesn’t protest it even once. She is a fucking coward, but she never meant to hurt anyone (and that is exactly why she ended up hurting so many people in the first place).
Muffet doesn't attack us because she thinks we are Chara, but because she thinks we hate spiders and that we are stingy with our money because someone else told her so. This person is probably Mettaton as he is responsible for the hored mercenaries in the core, and has multiple forms (muffet describes the person as appearing to change their shape in the shafows, likely Mettaton transforming to his EX form to not be recognized. The individual is also described as having a nice smile, which fits EX. The other alternative is that this was Flowey, but that makes no sense given his plan and the only shape-shifting he can do normally is on his face, whuch wouldn't be visible as a silhouette.
I don’t really agree with Alphys’ alignment I mean mettaton did want to be a star so that was a mutual thing and with the monsters in true lab most if not all of them were dying and volunteered and plus she was just kind of tasked with finishing a project that clearly no one could understand
@@infinitysquared9838 Plus, the accident with the Amalgamates lent her to have less self-worth, so her whole trickery with Mettaton gives her a reason, and let's not forget that it doesn't seem like she knew what Flowey was capable off and due to the Amalgamates accident, her self-worth fucked even more so she felt stuck, unnable to tell anyone
I would love to see a d&d alignment on the borderlands series (especially handsome jack) I feel it would be a fun analysis ( I'm going to be putting this in the comments of new alignment videos)
@@jackmack4181 A few reasons for my rationale: * Throughout BL1 & BL2, Lilith regularly revels in slaughter, destruction, torment and domination of others; far more than most other characters & Vault Hunters [only psycho Krieg and the BL2 bandits revel in such more] (Chaotic Evil traits). * Multiple times in BL2 (especially in some of the ECHO logs we can find), Lilith shows that she is fine manipulating others to get her way (especially Roland). Regardless of her desires (which are themselves selfish), the manipulative actions themselves would be classified as "Evil". * In BL2, Lilith has you kill 'innocent' [by Borderlands standards] miners, which she then justifies with "oh, they were just paid miners? Don't worry, Jack would have killed them anyway. Go hijack their payday train." An Evil act. * When confronting Angel's prison, Lilith defies orders and enters the prison to help out (nearly dooming Pandora when Jack captures her after Angel's death). A Chaotic action. * In BL2, with the Firehawk questline, she admits she enjoys the worship somewhat and tries to find ways to justify leaving her worshipers alone to do their own thing. It's only when she sees people she considers innocent in danger that she steps in and orders you to kill her worshipers to stop them from doing any more crazy acts. Overall, her behavior could be seen as Evil (self-serving, selfish & harmful) throughout, despite her little moment of Good (saving the victims) at the end. * Again in BL2, Lilith tries to teleport you into the Bloodshot stronghold without talking with you or considering the situation. Quite Chaotic. * Going to TPS, she not only felt completely fine betraying Jack and his team (trying to kill not only him and the team but everyone else on Helios), but also ordering Athena's execution at the end of the game (it took the Watcher stepping in to stop the execution). Overall, Evil (extent could be argued, but Evil regardless). * Also in TPS, plenty of little examples before the betrayal where she pulls of crazy stunts with no plan and then celebrates it. Multiple instances of Chaotic action. * BL3, I should mention, I have not considered since it is not well written from everything I've seen and read (nor have I played it personally, so I don't have a solid memory of every event and interaction). I should note - Evil, despite the notion of "always the bad guy", doesn't actually have to mean "bad guy" (at least, I don't think it should be used for that). Selfish, cruel, short-sighted, destructive, controlling - anything that could generally be described as "you harm or risk harm towards others, either for your own sake, for the sake of an ideal or simply the sake of harm", would all fall under an "evil" categorization.
Not exactly. People love Sans for his angst, his meta-awareness, and his powers. But beneath that, he's selfish. He won't lift a fingerbone to help Frisk in Pacifist. He won't lift a fingerbone to help Papyrus in Genocide. All he cares about is the player's ability to SAVE, LOAD and RESET. He doesn't give a rat's ass about anything else, or anyone else. That's why he's so lazy and apathetic. It's why he's my least favorite Undertale character.
@@Mark-fc7tu I don’t think that’s true at all, he’s nothing like that. He’s probably the ultimate good guy in Undertale really, cause he understands he stands no chance against the player. His only hope in ever saving everyone is to break the players will, he’s really one of the most selfless characters who can only do something ounce he really has to cause he knows when it’s right to finally kill you, when you are at the peak of LOVE
@@TheLoadingCrew The reason why it is funny to me, is I can imagine you telling the first guy (The one who did Pacifist) "Okay time to do Genocide!" and he goes "heck no..." so you have to find a different guy.
Great video, amazing end gag. Only problem is you didn't remove the playlists from the front page of the channel. It's still pretty easy to get to a good amount of your content. I mean you obviously didn't want to actually delete everything, the 'see you next week' in the live chat confirms that, but it feels kind of funny having the vast majority of the uploads unlisted and invisible on the uploads tab but still having the playlists full of videos plainly visible on the front page. I can't imagine what it would be like if someone recommended this channel to someone, not having seen this video, and finding it so empty.
I watch these videos because I don't have a great attention span, and Stuart's voice is good for having in the background while I'm at work. I really respect the amount of time and effort it takes to make videos like these.
My head cannon alignment for Chara is Neutral Good corrupted into Chaotic Evil. When they first fall into the underground, they just want to help their new found family. They die to help their loved ones. They are tagging along with your body, and as you kill they are the ones gaining EXP and LV, not you. Excellent video tho :)
With some of the monsters, I think it's important to remember that 'bullets' seem to be a normal part of monster culture/expression. While there are definitly montsers that are actively attacking you, some of the other monsters are just expressing themselves. Monster bodies react both with their own emotions AND the intentions of the attacker. For a battle that is both monsters, sinc ethier bodies are attunned to their Souls, neither will probably be able to harm the other unless they intend to. Human bodies aren't atuned to their Souls as closely, so you'd probably take damage either way (Papyrus seems to be the interesting exception since he never kills you, even if you actively try to get hit. It's possible, albiet a bit hard, to get Toriel of all people to kill you, even though we know that she DEFINITLY doesn't want to kill the kid)
honestly, undertale is so incredably rich in its enemy writing, Asgore you compleatly got into, but also Flowey/Arsiel is a god tire enemy design, undyne, sans, they are all unbelivably good in their motivations and machinations. . . . I cried a lot for Asriels fate who was the purest of true good only to lose everything that made him who he was in the most heartbreakind way and turn him into an absolutly captivating villain
Since we don’t get an alignment for Chara (makes sense as they are a very unknown character) I’ll do it. First Chara as a person. They are stated by Asriel to have hated humanity, and it’s implied they jumped down the mountain to commit suicide. They were then taken in by the Dremurrs, and seem to have been happy there. They then poisoned Asgore by putting in buttercups instead of cups of butter in a pie. Whether that action was intentional or accidental is unclear, but since Chara is a child, I’m guessing that it was an accident. They then poisoned themselves by eating buttercups, to let Asriel absorb their soul to go up to the surface to get 6 more souls and break the barrier. There, Chara tries to get Asriel to use the absurd amount of power he wields, also letting Asriel see how cruel humans are. Asriel decides not to kill anyone, and heads back to the underground, where Chara and Asriel both die (by saying Chara died, I mean their was soul shattered). I’d say to start, placing Chara at True Neutral is reasonable. I’d say their alignment switches depending on the route so I’ll go over each of them Pacifist, Neutral Good: Chara helps you buy translating monster text, playing a memory of Asgore telling them to stay determined while on their death bed. They are what allows you to check monsters, and any determination dialogue, or a description is most likely Chara‘s perception of it. And the main thing she does is give Frisk their memories of Asriel helping them after falling down, which allows Frisk to save them. Neutral. True Neutral, maybe Chaotic Neutral: They don’t do anything to stop you from killing the monsters, but they also don’t specifically do anything extra to help you kill anyone. Genocide. Neutral Evil or Chaotic Evil: Now Chara does go out of their way to help you slaughter everyone. Any attacks that was inputed by the player, is Chara, such as just walking without any input, or any of the random slashes that happen to kill characters like Sans, or Flowey. They also become pessimistic, and when you check Monster Kid, it calls him “Free EXP.” And once everyone is dead, they ask you if you are ready to destroy the world and move on to another. But I think this is at least somewhat reasonable. It is very extreme, and there were definitely much better solutions, but as a young impressionable child, seeing someone kill everyone you’ve ever know or loved and more, picking up murder as the best solution to their problems is reasonable. But reasonable doesn’t mean excusable. That is my alignment for Chara.
I mean you’re almost completely wrong in genocide. But they’re still evil due to you. Just neutral evil if not lawful evil. Every slash inputed by the player is you. Not Chara. The flowey and asgore stuff was chara, but not sans, as you were hovered over the fight button.
I don't know about Lawful Neutral for Muffet considering it's heavily implied she'll attack *anyone* who doesn't buy from her, since there's an NPC who straight up says she was looking at him like she was going to eat him when he thought about not buying her overpriced stuff.
Neutral evil. She will most likely attack anyone who doesn’t buy her product but is friendly towards people who help spiders. Still was gonna kill alphys in Geno and is the reason geno even happened
Sans is lawful. The only reason he doesn't KOS is because of a promise to Toriel, otherwise he would uphold his promise to the royal guard and claim your soul for Asgore.
25:06 fun fact, there is a secret run where if you fail to do a pacifist run flowey would make a bet with you, he says if you can complete your journey without killing a single monster he wouldn't kill the king. after you take his bet and do a pacifist run when you are almost complete battling asgore you are truly able to choose, if you kill him it stays the same but flowey is both shocked and pissed off at you. if you spare him asgore gives his speech... but then he says... No. That’s just a fantasy, isn’t it? Young one, when I look at you… I’m reminded of the human that fell here long ago… You have the same feeling of hope in your eyes. There is an ancient prophecy among our people… One day, a savior will come from the heavens. …I believe the one that was prophecied was you. Somewhere in the world outside… There must be a way to free us from our prison. It pains me to give you this responsiblity, but… Please. Take my soul… and seek the truth. (asgore then inflicts enough damage on himself with his trident resulting in him slowley turning into dust) Ha… ha… I’m sorry… I couldn’t give you a simple, happy ending… But I believe your freedom… …is what my son… …what ASRIEL would have wanted. probably one of the darkest moments in undertale...
So something that just occured to me about Undertale. considering that this game is suppised to be a sort of parody/commentary of RPGs, the humans being unkillable gods next to the monsters makes sense. In a lot of RPGs, the main charatcer is ususally a young adult, sometimes even a child, who manages to defeat everything in their path. It's a literall interpretation of how a mere child can be a hero in an RPG.
I love these little gags you’ve done with putting the characters on the chart, especially the dog, feels very in character for it to be wildly running around the wheel
Fun Fact: Sans actually has fought Flowey before, I Can't remember where it was stated, but I'm pretty sure Sans stopped Flowey from committing any true Genocide runs, leaving him to Neutral runs
Flowey admits to it themselves before running scared from us. I don't remember the line but he warns us about him and how he's had to reset a lot. So even if he managed to genocide it was remarkably difficult to do and not something he'd try again
33:22 it says she was reformed by her *own* determination to save earth...shes called the heroine that NEVER gives up...a huge part of her character is that shes very determined, andd that determination is likely natural.
It's not, prior to her fight with the human Alphys injects her with human determination in order to keep her fighting for longer, Undyne gives her everything in order to try take down the human, to which she dies immediately, the human determination transforms her into The Undying, an unstoppable foe, who only fails due to her body not being able to take the strain of determination
No. Muffet is Neutral Evil. She attacks you for not buying her overpriced baked goods, which she strong arms others into buying under the threat of eating them as implied by one of the monsters. She only spares you if you eat one of the underpriced pastries from the beginning or last long enough for one of the spiders to tell her you didn't harm any spiders.
Honestly it would be kinda hard to give a clear Alignment for henry since all routes/endings for the episodes are considered cannonical or considered true endings,honestly i think henry would either be on the chaotical part of the aligment wheel,but in the neutral part in the ones where he is supported by the goverment/pardoned or is allied with charles and to be honest,henry basically tried to kill half of the cast
The way I see it, most government routes are good, most solo/thief routes are neutral, and most Toppat routes are evil. Of course, there are exceptions, but that’s just the way I see it.
@@thomastakesatollforthedark2231 They gift you the memories of Asriel in the Pacifist route. Also I genuinely think Chara was a well meaning, although a bit of a humanity hater, when they were alive.
@@deathcon6261 I mean... I don't agree... At all. But I don't think either of us are willing to have that discussion now do we? This fandom doesn't need more toxicity
In defense of alphys sans is a characther that refuse to do anything against you no matter how many monsters you killed or tortured, the only way to make him do anything is by bring the world of undertale to its end, Alphys never realy did anything with bad intecions, and can even be made to improve as best as she can on her mistakes specialy in the rarest neutral ending of undertale (Alphys ruler ending)
Okay an addendum to my Travis Touchdown proposition, he's a bit less of a knob than I remembered but he's still bordering villain protagonist and has LOADS of Nat 1s to look at
Criticism: Alphys did not insert herself into the story just to make herself feel important, but also because she believed that if you liked her enough she would be able to convince you not to leave the Underground, and thus the player character and Asgore wouldn't have to fight. Also although she may have accidentally created Flowey there's no evidence that she actually knew what he was. All the Lab Entries show is that she injected a flower with Determination and then it disappeared. I know this video is 7 months old but the misunderstanding of her character really bugged me.
After hearing what you say about Asgore I can only say this. YES! FINALY! THANK YOU! Someone that see mine point of view! He is not evil! He never was! Even with mine first play I saw him as a person who do evil things (killing human child) for grater good (Give his people freedom and hope for the better future). Because of that I always thinking about him as character between Lawful Neutral and Lawful Good. I realy understand his motovacions during mine first play that I died 2 times throuth trying not fighting. He also knew he did bad things and I belive he destroyed MERCY button not to you could spare him but he was thinking he doesnt deserwe mercy. Even when you defeat him he still belives he doesnt deserwe it. Because of this actions I always like and had sympathy over him. And hearing you and agreeing with everything you say I can only answer with this... You made mine day.
Anoying Dog pretends to be Chaotic Prankster, but if you look closely at his actions, he's actually Lawfull Plot-Device ;) There is method to his madness!
Thank you for showing off Gooey Cube's products (I came here because you were sponsored by them and sat through the whole video, like, and subbed even though I don't know Undertale at all just to say thank you)
38:48 Chara if you can hear me. It's because I want to support a creator who's passionate about his work. It's hard to be a teacher and an artist and he's so genuine and clever. Wich is more than can be said about you ya angsety piel of pixels
I think it's more implied that faced with a true villain The self-proclaimed hero did what Alphies thought impossible She made her own determination to stop the monster before her Thus she in this moment became a True Hero surviving a fatal wound and paying the price for such a miracle
Completely agree with Alphys. It really annoyed me that I had to do a 'friendship is magic'-ending with her after finding out about the horrible and manipulative things she did.
I hesitate to call Toriel NG, and more a hidden CG. In her talk with Asgore, she says he could’ve gone through the barrier and taken the lives himself to then free the monsters instead of waiting for humans to come to him. It’s very dark of her.
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Ya know, Asgore is my favorite character. He’s a sad and sympathetic villain, so much so that he’s not really a villain at all, just a different flavor of hero, and, come on, he’s adorable when he’s not trying to kill you. Also, not gonna lie, his boss fight theme SLAPS. So yeah.
Hm. He might be sad and sympathetic, but his is rather dimwitted and he honestly could have done a lot more to break the Barrier without forcing Frisk to do it for him.
@@Mark-fc7tu I mean, that’s kinda the point. He’s not an omnipotent god or anything; he’s just a nice guy trying to do what’s right for the people who look up to him. He’s supposed to be a bit dumb, and that kinda adds to his charm.
@@creativeusername7366 Eh. He still needs people to bail him out of moral dilemmas. And he's not that charming. Especially since the narrative wants you to see him as a loveable goofball, in-universe.
In writing, he probably would be classified as a heroic antagonist: A character who registers as a genuine hero role but the plot puts them on the 'baddie' side of the story anyway. At the least he's definitely anti-villain, which would be someone who's 100% villain but characteristically not villainous. yayyyy complications in terminology and analysis.
That weird Teletubby was wrong. I still use this channel to write out better characters in my stories. It helps in DnD. Whelp, who ever they were, happy one year since.
This game is so beautiful, the story, the characters, the music, the setting.... everything about this story can be seen as poetic and beautiful and even perfect in some cases. Truly love the game and loved the video.
1. I love how the changed the channel icon for this video and its ending 2. With the statement that asgore might want for you to kill him I completely agree because if you decided to take the finishing blow for just a moment as asgore is dying he has a smile what that smile means is up to interpretation but I think the way it was explained was beautiful in the Vin the video video
Alphys never claimed to have created a soul from scratch, she claims to have created a robot with a soul. Ghosts don't seem to be considered souls, so this was still a lie, but a significantly less harmful one.
Technically it's not a lie, she says the robot she created has a soul inside it, Mettaton is in the robot, Mettaton has a soul, and Mettaton's soul is in the robot with them
26:29 In defense of Alphys... I feel that she didn’t do the things she did for completely unreasonable, well... reasons. Though I will not deny that she was acting selfish, and irresponsible that was pretty clear from the gecko. But despite her intentions as a character not being as clear as the other characters in undertale. I personally relate to her in some capacity. I can sense that from her demeanor and obsessive intentions that she was very insecure and very lonely. I personally feel that in some way she more often then not hates herself and in some ways believes that she isn’t good enough, and suffers with anxiety and fears around making new friends and relationships, as well as rejection. I feel that her actions and intentions was her way of trying to protect herself from being rejected by others and to cope with her own insecurities about herself. The way she went around it was not healthy and did more harm then good yes, but I still feel that this was the reason she acted the way she did.
28:00 I am not sure about this analysis of Alphys. Like you said she fd up a ton. A hella ton. And with each of her fuck ups, she tried to do something that would get someone to actually forgive her. Amalgams failed? It would hurt their families, so let's keep quiet and do other stuff with determination to make sure Asgore isn't too upset. Flower injected with determination is gone? Eh, whatever. Its not like it would gain time travel capabilities right? Still it feels off that I have done nothing in regards to determination project, so let's inject Undyne with it (ironically the one time it yielded some result). Actually not sure where you took the "Metaton is presented to Asgore as a soul from scratch creation" thing from. In the end, she fucked up, and was afraid of retribution and just tried to hide and bottle everything up as she tried to solve the issues as they just kept piling up and up. Also you have a crush on the 2nd most beloved monster in the underground and all you have to show for your success is fuck ups...and there comes Frisk, chipper as can be on his adventure, and a chance to show yourself to be useful...admittedly through self-made reasons (although in the end Metaton went for his own agenda and you did need her help) I actually like Alphys's character arc. Prior to doing True Lab, I admit, the rating of borderline chaotic neutral/evil is justified. Post lab, she definitely shifts to regular chaotic neutral
The amalgams wasn't on purpose and she convinced herself that it would be for the better if they where never found, it wasn't easy and isn't happy with it, but she doesn't really have many options either, i mean, it's not as simple as just going "hey that experimental cure turned your family members into an undying abomination" When the flower dissapeared she couldn't have known that it would become a murdering psycho, i mean, it escaped, what do you want her to do? setup a search party? she's doing all of her work in secret I don't remember Undyne ever getting injected with determination, as far as the lore goes she's just too determined for a normal monster, it isn't like monsters can't be determined Metatton was Alphys star experiment that made her become the royal scientist, she said that it was essentially an artificial soul when in reality it was a pre-existing soul inside a robotic body, this is rather chaotic neutral but we can easily assume Mettaton also pushed her into going trough with it, since it was his dream to be famous Alphy shows her fucked up side when she sees Frisk killing monsters (even if in self defense) and does nada to solve the issue, but that's pretty much the only part and could be explained by her being extra weird A reminder that she is NOT happy with her own decisions in life, it's even assumed she commits suicide in most neutral-genocide endings since she dissapears and no one, not even Sans can find it, he even says in a very serious tone "i can't find her anywhere, believe me, i tried" The only endings where this doesn't happen is when she's the only one left to rule and decides to keep it togheter for the good of the rest of the monsters
I agree with most of what you two said. but I will clarify a few things 1) there is never a line of text that says alphys injected undyne with determination. however the melting animation and her dialog implying she spoke with alphys before leading up to the fight makes me think she did (it's a commonly accepted theory) 2) creating metaton was one of the reasons alphys was so respected. metaton was a lie. I can't find the exact spot where it's said but it's somewhere in the game. 3) alphys manipulated asgore, metaton, and frisk for her own purposes. she wanted to feel close to them because she hates herself. I can empathize and sympathise with those remarks but all of that was selfish and wrong. she even lies to undyne about anime...I mean...that's played off as a joke...but still, all of her actions were for her benefit and not anyone else's (with the exception of the amalgymatea...that's kinda sad. tough spot to be put in)
@@TheLoadingCrew 1 and 2 - fair enough 3 - this is why I do still agree with your rating of borderline chaotic neutral/evil right up until post true lab, it started with ambiguous situation until it trickled down to a point where she was lying about smallest of issues such as Undyne and anime lol (though admittedly, we don't know how different outside world is to the real world (even if Alphys doesnt). Perhaps there were magical swords and princesses (considering the seal, humans can use magic). When the lies are starting to get unraveled, her mental state takes a hard down turn (in endings where mettaton dies, Alphys is heavily implied to commit suicide, and in non date endings, she is implied to have sealed herself in the true lab), unless Frisk helps her through it, and makes her do the hardest thing a lier can do - tell the truth. As per flowey, he likely exhibited conscious life signs to her, and then proceeded on playing with time and space. Considering Sans only had suspicions from minimal interaction with him, I think its unlikely Alphys knew he had time travel capabilities
Also, you said that we just don't know enough about any of the NPC's that are never encountered in battle within the game, to justify an alignment, but there was actually a pretty good majority of them that had a lot more observable personality than a lot of characters you DID give an alignment to.
There are afew reasons, most of them money related. 1) She assumes your an irachniphobe. 2) She's mad you didn't buy stuff from her. 3) She wants to turn you into food. 4) She was payed to capture your soul.
Poor Asriel Dude went through so much at such a young age He was brainwashed by a human that claimed to be a good friend, had to sacrifice himself to save many human lives, suffered because of his kindness, was revived as a soulless flower finding the underground near devoid of hope, had attempted suicide (as flowey) multiple times, was unable to feel love, and would do anything just to see his adopted sibling and best friend again
28:10 eeeeeeeeeh. Most of the information from the tapes is inferred. The plan alone is not clear from the tapes. The holes are filled by Asriel later. I don't see how the tapes could be anything for Asgore or even Alphys herself couldve been confused about their content.
I've been going about and done some language immersion for the equivalent of 5 months, Undertale has Japanese within the settings so I thought this was the perfect game to immerse in the language with alongside Japanese RUclips on a separate channel tailored for only Japanese in mind. This will be a very fun watch after going a little while away from English content.
My predictions before watching: Asgore-Lawful Good Toriel-Neutral Good Monster Kid-Neutral Good Asriel-Chaotic Good Papyrus-Chaotic Good Undyne-Chaotic Good Alphys-Lawful Neutral Sans-Lawful Neutral Napstablook-Neutral Mad Mew Mew-Neutral Mettaton-Chaotic Neutral Annoying Dog-Chaotic Neutral Muffet-Lawful Evil Mad Dummy-Neutral Evil Flowey-Chaotic Evil Jerry-Chaotic Evil Chara-starts Chaotic Neutral, becomes Chaotic Evil during Genocide Frisk-starts Neutral, alignment changes based off choices, good in pacifist, evil in genocide
Asgore aspires to be lawfull good, but I don't think he is. Same thing with any monster who trys to murder Frisk in a passifist run. Yes I hold that against them, and "It's for their people," does not make it moral to murder children. (Althogh their alignment may shift toward good later.) ... Sans is more True-Netral, because he's such a prankster.
“The best characters often have a good reason for doing it but the worst ones are just violent abusers who the writers just play off as being cute and quirky parts of their character.” YES. This is precisely why I can’t stand most anime tsunderes. I see a handful of good ones (ex. Emilia in The Devil is a Part-Timer- Sadao’s forces LITERALLY RAZED HER HOMETOWN so she genuinely hated him, and the part of her character arc where she seems to warm up to him was just her genuinely letting go of her grudge as she finds out he’s actually a decent person.)
26:01 at the very least the Yellow Soul Of Justice should definitely be on the good side of the spectrum since their defining trait is literally wanting people to be punished for any crimes they committed
Nice vid, I agree with pretty much everything, except Alphys. I think you were a bit too harsh on her, and thus made her out to be a lot worse of a person, er, monster, than she actually is. While I do agree with you in that her lying to you in the neutral run wasn't exactly a good thing, and she was indeed a little selfish, that alone doesn't make her bad. When it comes to what we see in the true Lab, you weren't exactly right with your facts. The reason Asgore commissioned Alphys wasn't just to monkey around with DT (DETERMINATION), it was because Asgore wanted to find another way to break the barrier, so he wouldn't have to hurt anymore humans. As for the experiments themselves, the intent of the DT experiments was NOT to revive dying monsters, that was NEVER the goal. Rather, Alphys wanted to see if she could make a monsters soul linger after death the same way human souls do. Thats why Asgore went around asking for the bodies of monsters that had "fallen down" (Read: fallen into a coma that they wouldn't ever awaken from, leading to their deaths). The fact that said monsters ended up coming back to life was a completely unintended outcome, though not an unwelcome one as Alphys herself notes. But as you are no doubt aware, things went HORRIBLY wrong. Now as stated prior, the original purpose of the DT injections was to allow the monster souls to linger after death, but obviously that didn't happen. To be fair, neither Alphys, nor Asgore knew a thing about how monster bodies would react to large ammounts of DT. She didn't realize until too late that monster bodies couldn't handle large ammounts of DT. The unexpected end result essentially traumatized Alphys, causing her self-esteem and sense of self worth to PLUMMET. It got so bad, she actually began to contemplate suicide. (Thats why she was at the edge of that waterfall, and why she was looking into the abyss below) Thankfully, Undyne saved Alphys and kept her from going through with it (though Undyne had no idea), but Alphys still had issues she hadn't worked through yet. A big part of the reason Alphys lies about some things is not because she is selfish, but because she's afraid of how others would see her if they ever knew the truth. As for flowey, I feel you are unfairly laying blame for his actions at Alphys feet. Yes, she did technically "create him", but much like the other DT experiment, that wasn't at all what she was trying to do. To put it simply, even if they got enough monster souls to linger, they would still need some way to utilize them in breaking the barrier, and thats where the flower comes in. You see, a monster cannot absorb other monster souls, the same way a human cannot absorb human souls (no, asriel doesn't count as he was still flowey when he absorbed every soul in the underground). As such, the flower was meant to act as a host for the monster souls, so to speak. Unfortunately, there was an unexpected element in the mix, the dust of the fallen prince, Asriel. You see, Alphys had no way of knowing that some of Asriels dust was still present on the flower she injected with DT, as such, when the DT mixed with Asriels dust and the flower to create flowey, it was another unintended outcome. To be fair, Alphys likely wasn't even aware of floweys existance, at least at first. Flowey essentially vamoosed after his creation, dissapearing before Alphys could become aware of what happened. Long story short, i would place Alphys as being Neutral Good.
As a massive fan of this game, I hate 2 things about this video. 1. Rick Sanchez is a very different character from Sans. Sans was worn down into nihilism because of the resets. Rick uses nihilism as an excuse for the morally dubious nature of his actions. 2. Chara is not any form of Evil. Chara grew to hate humans because of an ambiguous backstory that lead them to suicide attempt on Mt. Ebott. Chara is the narrator for the game. Chara's appearance at the end of the Genocide ending is the result of the player corrupting them by actively choosing to kill every monster they can in the underground. People far too often use Chara as a scapegoat for their own actions.
@TheLoadingCrew. Amazing, thought-provoking and fun video. You did a lot of the characters justice, and I had fun listening to. Whats the song you used with Papyrus driving at 3:48?
![Noob To Max With DRAGON REWORK In Blox Fruits [FULL MOVIE]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/LnBMOinoOvA/mqdefault.jpg)
Btw, translated the Wingdings.
The ones that appear mid-Alphys discussion says:
"W.D. GASTER
Next Week Deltarune Video. Like. Share."
The ones at the end say: "See you next week".
I'm hyped
THANK YOU MY DUDE!
Technically it say "D. W. Gaster" but we all know what they were going with this and ut probably was a spelling error
instablaster.
Chara: I DELETED EVERYTHING!
Me: *Looks at the playlists.* But it refused.
15:42 The exact thing that separates LG characters from LN characters is that they will disobey an order if they judge it to be evil.
That and motivations.
Lawfull GOOD not LAWFUL good. Same with Chaotic good. Good takes priority. A chaotic good will often absolutely go with the lawful option if it means supporting good.
@@rdmrdm2659 Exactly! And when it comes down to it, Undyne has never commited an act she considers amoral - hells, she has hardly committed any acts that anyone may consider amoral. The only cause for debate is the very possible acquisition of the human souls, which she has justified lawfully and makes exemptions for when the human in question is, to her perception, undoubtedly innocent.
@@rdmrdm2659 lol I thought you were correcting spelling when you spelt lawfull differently in both and I was about to rage on you for correcting grammar
@@Ciurk nope. Just my fat fingers and typos.
33:26 Undyne has determination to resist death regardless of the route you're playing.
It's just that her determination is stronger at the genocide route because she has even stronger desire to stop you because she knows what you'll do if she doesn't.
Yea, undyne being the most determined monster despite determination becoming unstable if a monster has it when they die (or are about to) might just be something undyne can do.
Also what might be the biggest misconception about sans, he openly admits he CAN'T remember through loads, but he does have ways of figuring out if someone can do so (such as passwords and really good insight, being able to tell how many times he has killed you based purely on your expressions (up to around 10)) 36:00
The best summary of Papyrus I've ever heard is "The type of character where you hold Shift to write his dialogue instead of using Caps Lock"
I'm just going to put Chara's alignment here. At the beginning of their story, they are taken in by the Dreemurr family and become siblings with Asriel. It's implied that Chara truly loved their family and only wanted the best for them. I'd put them in neutral good, but then they make a plan to gather 6 human souls to free everyone. They want to do the wrong thing for the right reason, but spares their family of having to die such a painful death. This is probably between neutral good and true neutral. I'm going true neutral. After they and Asriel are killed by the humans, they are so confused as to what to do or what they should've done. Therefore, they are true neutral when Frisk falls down. You show them what they should to depending on your actions throughout the game. In a neutral run, they stay neutral. Pretty obvious. In a pacifist run, they help you free everyone by translating dialogue for you and saving Asriel. This would put them in neutral good. On the genocide run, you push them to the point that they become numb and killing is all they know. This puts them in chaotic evil. Chara is such a fascinating character, and I love how they directly mirror your choices throughout the game.
swear to god if this is another "chara is secretly good" post imma yeet this whole video
okay. that's better...and makes a bit of sense
@@TheLoadingCrew I think that Chara at heart is just a misguided child, and it's our responsibility to show them what to do. This results in them being absolutely terrifying and undeniably evil in a genocide route (although it kinda is our fault), or heartbreakingly tragic on a pacifist route. For me, learning this recontextualized the entire Asriel fight, because all throughout the game Chara has been narrating, but that's really it. But when it comes time to save Asriel, it's their memory that makes him remember himself. If you'll notice, Chara also takes control away from us at the end of a pacifist run. While in the genocide run they press fight without our input, in the pacifist run the only option we have is to save Asriel. It makes an already tearjerking sequence ten times as beautiful and sad.
@@TheLoadingCrew thats always what the "Chara is good" argument has been though. Thats all they are trying to say. Infact, the name of the idea is kind of a misnomer. Its less Chara being good and more Chara not being evil except In the genocide route. People claiming Chara as entirely good has just been people overcorrecting.
@@--CHARLIE-- no chara wanted asriel to kill the humans but he dindt at all thats why chara is mad at the monsters becuase she is just fucking evil and petty
I feel like Asgore is such a underrated and missunderstood character.
He is
I respected asgore before this even more than sand but now I respect for him has increased to the point that he's my favorite character
A king who has lost everything, the war, his son's and his wife but still tries to give his people hope .
That is what I call a true king
You know... when a lot of people think something is underrated, maybe is not underrated anymore
Same thing with Chara.
They’re a good person, they just get influenced by you when you kill.
They have a reason to hate humanity tbh, we all suck.
@@exi_m7074 hell, I hate humanity too, can’t blame them. In fact, one of the things I hate about humanity is that some people would’ve use He or Her instead of them, and then used “It’s just a fictional character” as an excuse.
loving it, you used chara's as a scapegoat, like so many other people in the fandom.
Nah, wasn't me who deleted all my videos, it was chara
Nah, wasn't me who murderised every monster in sight, it was chara
Nah, wasn't me who committed tax fraud, was chara
Eh, depends on your interpretation. You are told to name Chara after yourself, so Chara could be considered the in-game equivalent to the player. This is you. This is what you've become.
Whatever they are, Chara would never rant like that in the game, they would just present the truth, the cold hard truth.
Eh... when I did the Genocide Route, I didn't do so out of curiosity and boredom. I did it because I resented the monsters and their hypocritical worldviews and pretentious arguments. I enjoyed killing Toriel, Papyrus, Undyne, Mettaton, Sans, Asgore, and Flowey.
Chara had nothing to do with it, and when I got to the Fallen Child... I nodded at their annoying speech and then exited out of the game window.
@Mark346533243
Ugh, okay, could go into a little more detail?
(Ps, I never found Papyrus hypocritical and pretentious really)
I would actually label Flowey as Lawful Evil, and here's why; His "Kill or be Killed" ideology influences all of his actions, and he truly believes that he is in the right.
Interesting take, but Personally, I would still call him Chaotic Evil: maybe Netral Evil.
Also, I'm not giving flowey a pass and and calling him True Netral, because "It's just his nature."
@@agsilverradio2225 I'm not saying that Flowey isn't evil, just saying that he clearly has a rule he follows.
I’d go neutral, he can’t feel positive emotions (or really much of anything), and that’s enough to make anyone start doing crap like that
i was thinking more chaotic neutral considering he could care less what people didn't like, if he wanted it he'll try to get it
Flowey also tries to enforce this code onto the player by psychologically manipulating them. The constant taunting and teasing in the Neutral and Pacifist endings about how if only we had listened to him, our friends wouldn't be in danger.
Actually i would say muffet is lawfull evil, due to 3 facts
1: she regretd no having captured alphys and turned her into food
2: after been told you have not harmed any spiders she lets you go, despite knowing that you killed dozens of monsters
3: its implied to have turned monters into food
I'm so glad you gave Asgore the love he deserves. He's my favorite character from Undertale and it's good to see him get acknowledged.
mine is asriel/flowy but I get where you come from, Asgore is amasingly written
So if Sans is rick....
Where's pickle sans?
Funniest shin I've ever seen.
"Hey Papyrus! I turned myself into a pickle, Papyrus!"
*"I'M PICKLE SAAAAAAAANNNNSSSS!!!!"*
You are.
"Hey. Hey Kid. Hey kid, come in here. Flip over the pickle on my desk."
Side note, I don't think undyne was ever injected with DT, mostly because if you kill her in a neutral playthrough, she melts regardless. I think undyne is actually just that determined. (This would also imply that over ambitious monsters just fookin die).
I did not actually know that! good catch!
@@TheLoadingCrew yeah just like look up undyne neutral death, she really holds on
8:11
Papyrus is often labeled as a narcissists but that is incorrect, he thinks of EVERYONE as like himself, he also does not think himself better of the king, he holds everyone, including his brother, to that regard. Lawful Good, as he does capture you, albeit, without killing you like the others, hence the good part, he does stop, but only after you've beaten him.
9:44
Lesser Dog and most of the dogs have to be Lawful good, as they do their duty, but are easily distracted, being easily distracted does not make you chaotic.
Doggo, Lawful good, pet the good boi.
10:16
Dogamy, Lawful Good, loyal to Dogaressa and if you kill her he gets depressed and doesn't really attack, laying down and accepting death.
Dogaressa, Chaotic Good, loyal to Dogamy and if you kill him she flies into a violent rage and fights to the death to kill you for killing her husband, this act is not to save monster kind but a spiteful revenge, however much it's deserved, this makes her chaotic.
14:11
Bob is True Neutral, he doesn't attack, just talks, and clearly unlike the temmies he talks normally, he's doesn't do anything evil and doesn't do anything good, just tells you his name.
17:59
Mettaton is definitely the chaotic neutral bard, he goes along with the plan for Alphys but upon thinking of the human world and wanting to go there decided that he wants the humans soul, while he is doing this to prevent the war it is for a selfish reason; to be a star in the human world.
20:24
Muffet is Lawful Evil, attacking the human because they didn't support their cause or because they hate spider, rumors which she heard from the grape vine with no evidence, oh, and she pressured a man into breaking the bank and buying her overpriced healing items, which might I remind you are HEALING in this world, she's like the American healthcare system and we all know that's Lawful Evil
And finally at the end
Chara is Lawful Neutral, they only take action to make you do what you have been doing and live with the consequences, they do bad things but were never terrible, just a naughty child, they also did good things, like wanting to save the monsters from the underground and even sacrificing themselves to do so, they DID want to, or were ok with, killing several humans, but I'd argue Lawful Neutral as they make you do what your actions have lead to if you go on the genocide route so you don't try to weasel out of your ending by resetting, they show you your actions have consequences and you can't just take it back. Lawful Neutral because they hold you for your actions, they even offer a deal to get the game back, but never let you forget what you did.
Damn Chara's rant at the end hurt my feelings
It was funny rant
I totally understand your position on Alphys, and to some degree, she definitely deserves it. But I personally view her as a very... damaged(?) character, at least... in terms of mental health. She might not have had to children die or have the whole world on her shoulders like Asgore, but that's not really needed to have poor mental health. Rather, she seems to suffer from some combination of anxiety, depression, and what is either high-functioning autism or ADHD. She also seems to be a compulsive liar. While we don't know a lot about her home life before becoming the royal scientist... I unfortunately relate to her actions a lot as someone who has a similar combination of problems I'm constantly trying to work past and will never fully be over because they're part of my brain... so I don't think it's necessarily fair to be as harsh as you were to Alphys.
Yes, she'd done some really, really shitty things. But, based on her actions and dialogue in-game, as well as my own experience, she likely beats herself up CONSTANTLY over every little thing she's ever done wrong. And she's probably in a mental loop where she keeps trying to be an overachiever to make up for her past mistakes while lying about what she's done because she's too terrified of facing the music. While that might sound terrible... as someone who grew up with lots of abuse (mental, emotional, physical, and spiritual) for the smallest of mistakes, I can relate to this. I have issues with being a chronic liar to the point that even stupid little things like watching a cool youtube video can end up being lied about, all because of the abuse I faced as a child.
Sorry, this has gone on a bit too long. I'll continue watching, but... that tirade against Alphys really hit me hard because it felt like you were calling ME a shitty person, since I relate unfortunately closely to her.
I hesitate to reply to this for lots of reasons but obviously I am not calling you those things personally. I can relate to Alphys a lot, hiding and being scared of your screw ups and my wife has pointed out that I tend to hate people that remind me of me (if you saw the ending I have lots of digs at myself as well). If you identify as Alphys, that's cool. She's done some great things and she is an interesting character at the very least (the genocide ending and her becoming queen in one ending is evidence that she has some depth to her).
However, there is a point where she has garnered a significant position of power and she has responsibilities to a significant portion of people that she can't cower from and I don't respect that. Having low self esteem and depression is excusable to a point until lives are on the line. And from a narrative, like...her actions get hand-waved waaay too easily. That whole "oh she's sad, so it's okay" or "well it all worked out in the end" really doesn't fly with me.
In an age where we take our fiction very seriously as a means to communicate a message, the way the narrative treats Alhpys' mistakes like she forgot to file her taxes on time is irresponsible. But since her profession is just a narrative device to smooth over some lore, I'm not gonna harp on it. The game's themes are friendship and mercy so from a meta sense Alphys is just someone that doesn't gel with my sensibilities.
Hope you feel better dude. Obviously, I'm not attacking you personally. That portion of the video was about Alphys and Alphys alone, not people like Alphys or even similar to Alphys. Cheers dude. Thank you for the comment :) hope you enjoy the deltarune video
I think she actually commits suicide at the end of neutral if certain requirements are met (basically abort genocide last moment)
" well I may have murdered 42 people and merged their souls together to where they suffer and eternal Agony for the rest of well eternity, lying to their families time and time again. And bragging to my king that I created a soul from scratch when in reality I fused a ghost with some metal, and then down the line emotionally manipulated a poor defenseless child. But it's okay because I have autism and anxiety. So don't criticize me about my behavior cuz I can't control it" - 🤡
@@necroyt6540 What the hell are you talking about??? She didn’t kill anyone let alone murder, all the people who were used on her experiments were already agonizing by the time they got to her and unless I’m remembering wrong they were all volunteers. Furthermore, they’re not “in eternal agony” they’re disabled, their attitudes were like that when we encountered them because they were hungry and had speech impediments so they couldn’t communicate with us what was wrong. If you backtrack and speak to them and their families m every single one of them is happy to be alive and to be able to be with their families again. Alphys’ only crime here was taking so long to tell people what happened, but with all the pressure that was put on her and with how terrified she was of what she did to those people it’s no wonder she was so hesitant to do it.
In regards to your second point, come on, this is Alphys we’re talking about, when has she ever bragged about any of her accomplishments, in every single on screen instance of one of her inventions being praised its other people who are doing the praising, the farthest she goes with trying to make anyone think any good of her is when you enter the core and she tries to convince you that she knows what she’s doing, and really, in that instance she was mostly just trying to convince Herself that she was in control of the situation (because she did not want you to get hurt due to her incompetence). Either way, that interaction is only ever referenced by Catty and Bratty, which are not reliable narrators and were definitely missing most of the context there, no one can say for sure what happened that time.
I do agree that what she did to the player was fucked up, but during the entire time she’s guiding you through Hotland, she does everything in her power to ensure that you don’t get hurt, this doesn’t justify her actions but you’re making it out to be as if she just purposefully hurt this random child for no other reason than to satisfy her own ego, which is just. Not true????
Your last line is honestly the most ridiculous part of the entire thing, she has never asked anyone not to criticize her nor will she ever do such a thing, you might hate her but you can’t even come close to how much she hates herself, the reason why she even do any of those things was because she was terrified of people hating her as much as she did herself, but when she finally comes clean she fully accepts the consequences of her actions, she looses her job for telling the truth and she doesn’t protest it even once. She is a fucking coward, but she never meant to hurt anyone (and that is exactly why she ended up hurting so many people in the first place).
@@victorthecollector9198 didn't read, anyways.
Muffet doesn't attack us because she thinks we are Chara, but because she thinks we hate spiders and that we are stingy with our money because someone else told her so. This person is probably Mettaton as he is responsible for the hored mercenaries in the core, and has multiple forms (muffet describes the person as appearing to change their shape in the shafows, likely Mettaton transforming to his EX form to not be recognized. The individual is also described as having a nice smile, which fits EX. The other alternative is that this was Flowey, but that makes no sense given his plan and the only shape-shifting he can do normally is on his face, whuch wouldn't be visible as a silhouette.
17:55
“I’m going to say mettaton’s lawful good”
The neutral ending where he became king:
delightful!
I don’t really agree with Alphys’ alignment I mean mettaton did want to be a star so that was a mutual thing and with the monsters in true lab most if not all of them were dying and volunteered and plus she was just kind of tasked with finishing a project that clearly no one could understand
I agree. She made mistakes, but none of them were based on any sort of moral failing.
@@infinitysquared9838 Plus, the accident with the Amalgamates lent her to have less self-worth, so her whole trickery with Mettaton gives her a reason, and let's not forget that it doesn't seem like she knew what Flowey was capable off and due to the Amalgamates accident, her self-worth fucked even more so she felt stuck, unnable to tell anyone
Papyrus kill damage: "42064"
Me: "We were this close to greatness."
I would love to see a d&d alignment on the borderlands series (especially handsome jack) I feel it would be a fun analysis ( I'm going to be putting this in the comments of new alignment videos)
If I had to guess:
* Handsome Jack: Starts Neutral Good, nosedives to Chaotic Evil during TPS
* Commandant Steele: Lawful Evil
* Zarpedon: Lawful Good (borderline Neutral Good)
* Lilith: Chaotic Evil (borderline Chaotic Neutral)
* Roland: Lawful Good (borderline Neutral Good)
* Mordecai: Chaotic Neutral (borderline True Neutral by BL2)
* Brick: Chaotic Neutral (borderline Chaotic Evil)
* Axton: Chaotic Neutral
* Gaige: Chaotic Good (borderline Chaotic Neutral)
* Salvador: Chaotic Good (borderline Chaotic Neutral)
* Maya: Neutral Good (borderline Lawful Good)
* Zer0: Neutral Evil (borderline True Neutral)
* Kreig: Lawful Neutral bordering Lawful Good (Inner Krieg) / Chaotic Evil bordering Chaotic Neutral (Outer Krieg)
* Wilhelm: Lawful Evil (bordering Lawful Neutral pre-TPS, bordering Neutral Evil post-TPS)
* Nisha: Chaotic Evil
* Athena: Starts Lawful Neutral, rises to Lawful Good during TPS
* Claptrap: Chaotic Good
* Tim-Jack: True Neutral (borderline Neutral Good)
* Aurelia: Neutral Evil (borderline Chaotic Evil)
* Sir Hammerlock: Neutral Good (borderline Lawful Good)
* Marcus: Neutral Evil (borderline True Neutral before BL2)
* Scooter: Chaotic Neutral (borderline Chaotic Evil)
* Ellie: Chaotic Neutral
* Moxie: Chaotic Neutral (borderline Chaotic Good)
* Pierce: Lawful Good (borderline Lawful Neutral)
@@DBArtsCreators why is Lilith chaotic evil? Is it because of her handsome jack is the way he is?
@@jackmack4181
A few reasons for my rationale:
* Throughout BL1 & BL2, Lilith regularly revels in slaughter, destruction, torment and domination of others; far more than most other characters & Vault Hunters [only psycho Krieg and the BL2 bandits revel in such more] (Chaotic Evil traits).
* Multiple times in BL2 (especially in some of the ECHO logs we can find), Lilith shows that she is fine manipulating others to get her way (especially Roland). Regardless of her desires (which are themselves selfish), the manipulative actions themselves would be classified as "Evil".
* In BL2, Lilith has you kill 'innocent' [by Borderlands standards] miners, which she then justifies with "oh, they were just paid miners? Don't worry, Jack would have killed them anyway. Go hijack their payday train." An Evil act.
* When confronting Angel's prison, Lilith defies orders and enters the prison to help out (nearly dooming Pandora when Jack captures her after Angel's death). A Chaotic action.
* In BL2, with the Firehawk questline, she admits she enjoys the worship somewhat and tries to find ways to justify leaving her worshipers alone to do their own thing. It's only when she sees people she considers innocent in danger that she steps in and orders you to kill her worshipers to stop them from doing any more crazy acts. Overall, her behavior could be seen as Evil (self-serving, selfish & harmful) throughout, despite her little moment of Good (saving the victims) at the end.
* Again in BL2, Lilith tries to teleport you into the Bloodshot stronghold without talking with you or considering the situation. Quite Chaotic.
* Going to TPS, she not only felt completely fine betraying Jack and his team (trying to kill not only him and the team but everyone else on Helios), but also ordering Athena's execution at the end of the game (it took the Watcher stepping in to stop the execution). Overall, Evil (extent could be argued, but Evil regardless).
* Also in TPS, plenty of little examples before the betrayal where she pulls of crazy stunts with no plan and then celebrates it. Multiple instances of Chaotic action.
* BL3, I should mention, I have not considered since it is not well written from everything I've seen and read (nor have I played it personally, so I don't have a solid memory of every event and interaction).
I should note - Evil, despite the notion of "always the bad guy", doesn't actually have to mean "bad guy" (at least, I don't think it should be used for that). Selfish, cruel, short-sighted, destructive, controlling - anything that could generally be described as "you harm or risk harm towards others, either for your own sake, for the sake of an ideal or simply the sake of harm", would all fall under an "evil" categorization.
@@DBArtsCreators i like the idea of harm=evil, help=good as far as alignments go
I’m not afraid to say that Sans is the best character in the game and there’s a reason why he’s so popular.
DE DE DE DEEE SNANSSSS
Sans the Mii costume.
Care to tell us those reasons???
Not exactly. People love Sans for his angst, his meta-awareness, and his powers. But beneath that, he's selfish. He won't lift a fingerbone to help Frisk in Pacifist. He won't lift a fingerbone to help Papyrus in Genocide. All he cares about is the player's ability to SAVE, LOAD and RESET. He doesn't give a rat's ass about anything else, or anyone else. That's why he's so lazy and apathetic. It's why he's my least favorite Undertale character.
@@Mark-fc7tu I don’t think that’s true at all, he’s nothing like that. He’s probably the ultimate good guy in Undertale really, cause he understands he stands no chance against the player. His only hope in ever saving everyone is to break the players will, he’s really one of the most selfless characters who can only do something ounce he really has to cause he knows when it’s right to finally kill you, when you are at the peak of LOVE
"We literally have no other way of making money right now!"
*Looks confused at the Patreon link in the description*
patreon pays the team. not us
@@TheLoadingCrew ah, my bad.
you're good fam
37:20 Chara's talk was the best and most inspiring part of this video lol.
I love how you needed to get two different people to do each ending for your footage.
okay...
@@TheLoadingCrew The reason why it is funny to me, is I can imagine you telling the first guy (The one who did Pacifist) "Okay time to do Genocide!" and he goes "heck no..." so you have to find a different guy.
Great video, amazing end gag. Only problem is you didn't remove the playlists from the front page of the channel. It's still pretty easy to get to a good amount of your content. I mean you obviously didn't want to actually delete everything, the 'see you next week' in the live chat confirms that, but it feels kind of funny having the vast majority of the uploads unlisted and invisible on the uploads tab but still having the playlists full of videos plainly visible on the front page.
I can't imagine what it would be like if someone recommended this channel to someone, not having seen this video, and finding it so empty.
actually. that's why I left the play lists up
I watch these videos because I don't have a great attention span, and Stuart's voice is good for having in the background while I'm at work.
I really respect the amount of time and effort it takes to make videos like these.
My head cannon alignment for Chara is Neutral Good corrupted into Chaotic Evil. When they first fall into the underground, they just want to help their new found family. They die to help their loved ones. They are tagging along with your body, and as you kill they are the ones gaining EXP and LV, not you. Excellent video tho :)
Yes exactly!!
Lawful evil*
Chara finished what you started. Simple as that. Speaks in a formal manner and even questions you when you do genocide multiple times.
With some of the monsters, I think it's important to remember that 'bullets' seem to be a normal part of monster culture/expression. While there are definitly montsers that are actively attacking you, some of the other monsters are just expressing themselves. Monster bodies react both with their own emotions AND the intentions of the attacker. For a battle that is both monsters, sinc ethier bodies are attunned to their Souls, neither will probably be able to harm the other unless they intend to. Human bodies aren't atuned to their Souls as closely, so you'd probably take damage either way (Papyrus seems to be the interesting exception since he never kills you, even if you actively try to get hit. It's possible, albiet a bit hard, to get Toriel of all people to kill you, even though we know that she DEFINITLY doesn't want to kill the kid)
honestly, undertale is so incredably rich in its enemy writing, Asgore you compleatly got into, but also Flowey/Arsiel is a god tire enemy design, undyne, sans, they are all unbelivably good in their motivations and machinations. . . . I cried a lot for Asriels fate who was the purest of true good only to lose everything that made him who he was in the most heartbreakind way and turn him into an absolutly captivating villain
Since we don’t get an alignment for Chara (makes sense as they are a very unknown character) I’ll do it.
First Chara as a person. They are stated by Asriel to have hated humanity, and it’s implied they jumped down the mountain to commit suicide. They were then taken in by the Dremurrs, and seem to have been happy there. They then poisoned Asgore by putting in buttercups instead of cups of butter in a pie. Whether that action was intentional or accidental is unclear, but since Chara is a child, I’m guessing that it was an accident. They then poisoned themselves by eating buttercups, to let Asriel absorb their soul to go up to the surface to get 6 more souls and break the barrier. There, Chara tries to get Asriel to use the absurd amount of power he wields, also letting Asriel see how cruel humans are. Asriel decides not to kill anyone, and heads back to the underground, where Chara and Asriel both die (by saying Chara died, I mean their was soul shattered).
I’d say to start, placing Chara at True Neutral is reasonable.
I’d say their alignment switches depending on the route so I’ll go over each of them
Pacifist, Neutral Good: Chara helps you buy translating monster text, playing a memory of Asgore telling them to stay determined while on their death bed. They are what allows you to check monsters, and any determination dialogue, or a description is most likely Chara‘s perception of it. And the main thing she does is give Frisk their memories of Asriel helping them after falling down, which allows Frisk to save them.
Neutral. True Neutral, maybe Chaotic Neutral: They don’t do anything to stop you from killing the monsters, but they also don’t specifically do anything extra to help you kill anyone.
Genocide. Neutral Evil or Chaotic Evil: Now Chara does go out of their way to help you slaughter everyone. Any attacks that was inputed by the player, is Chara, such as just walking without any input, or any of the random slashes that happen to kill characters like Sans, or Flowey. They also become pessimistic, and when you check Monster Kid, it calls him “Free EXP.” And once everyone is dead, they ask you if you are ready to destroy the world and move on to another.
But I think this is at least somewhat reasonable. It is very extreme, and there were definitely much better solutions, but as a young impressionable child, seeing someone kill everyone you’ve ever know or loved and more, picking up murder as the best solution to their problems is reasonable. But reasonable doesn’t mean excusable.
That is my alignment for Chara.
deltarune video...
This is very true Chara's alignment is based on your actions
I mean you’re almost completely wrong in genocide. But they’re still evil due to you. Just neutral evil if not lawful evil.
Every slash inputed by the player is you. Not Chara. The flowey and asgore stuff was chara, but not sans, as you were hovered over the fight button.
I don't know about Lawful Neutral for Muffet considering it's heavily implied she'll attack *anyone* who doesn't buy from her, since there's an NPC who straight up says she was looking at him like she was going to eat him when he thought about not buying her overpriced stuff.
mmm. that is a good point
Neutral evil. She will most likely attack anyone who doesn’t buy her product but is friendly towards people who help spiders. Still was gonna kill alphys in Geno and is the reason geno even happened
Sans is lawful. The only reason he doesn't KOS is because of a promise to Toriel, otherwise he would uphold his promise to the royal guard and claim your soul for Asgore.
25:06 fun fact, there is a secret run where if you fail to do a pacifist run flowey would make a bet with you, he says if you can complete your journey without killing a single monster he wouldn't kill the king. after you take his bet and do a pacifist run when you are almost complete battling asgore you are truly able to choose, if you kill him it stays the same but flowey is both shocked and pissed off at you. if you spare him asgore gives his speech... but then he says...
No. That’s just a fantasy, isn’t it?
Young one, when I look at you…
I’m reminded of the human that fell here long ago…
You have the same feeling of hope in your eyes.
There is an ancient prophecy among our people…
One day, a savior will come from the heavens.
…I believe the one that was prophecied was you.
Somewhere in the world outside…
There must be a way to free us from our prison.
It pains me to give you this responsiblity, but…
Please. Take my soul… and seek the truth.
(asgore then inflicts enough damage on himself with his trident resulting in him slowley turning into dust)
Ha… ha…
I’m sorry…
I couldn’t give you a simple, happy ending…
But I believe your freedom…
…is what my son…
…what ASRIEL would have wanted.
probably one of the darkest moments in undertale...
So something that just occured to me about Undertale. considering that this game is suppised to be a sort of parody/commentary of RPGs, the humans being unkillable gods next to the monsters makes sense. In a lot of RPGs, the main charatcer is ususally a young adult, sometimes even a child, who manages to defeat everything in their path. It's a literall interpretation of how a mere child can be a hero in an RPG.
Man, Gilbert Gottfried was mean as a kid.
He sounds like Gilbert Gottfried fused with Danny Devito.
I love these little gags you’ve done with putting the characters on the chart, especially the dog, feels very in character for it to be wildly running around the wheel
Oh damn, Mumky Jones works well for Chara!
it does sound like him
Literally first thing that came to my mind when I heard Chara's voice.
Wait... Sans is Undertale's Rick. Rick's last name is Sanchez. Sanchez shortened is... Oh My God. Someone get MatPat on the phone!
HAHAHAH! that got me good
Fun Fact: Sans actually has fought Flowey before, I Can't remember where it was stated, but I'm pretty sure Sans stopped Flowey from committing any true Genocide runs, leaving him to Neutral runs
yup
Flowey admits to it themselves before running scared from us. I don't remember the line but he warns us about him and how he's had to reset a lot. So even if he managed to genocide it was remarkably difficult to do and not something he'd try again
33:22
it says she was reformed by her *own* determination to save earth...shes called the heroine that NEVER gives up...a huge part of her character is that shes very determined, andd that determination is likely natural.
It's not, prior to her fight with the human Alphys injects her with human determination in order to keep her fighting for longer, Undyne gives her everything in order to try take down the human, to which she dies immediately, the human determination transforms her into The Undying, an unstoppable foe, who only fails due to her body not being able to take the strain of determination
No. Muffet is Neutral Evil. She attacks you for not buying her overpriced baked goods, which she strong arms others into buying under the threat of eating them as implied by one of the monsters. She only spares you if you eat one of the underpriced pastries from the beginning or last long enough for one of the spiders to tell her you didn't harm any spiders.
In my opinion
Impressive.
Now I have to ask how you'd handle Henry Stickmin.
Spoilers below
...
CHARA WTF?!
That depends on the route. He can be a government supported bounty hunter, the leader of a criminal clan, or just a lonely thief.
Honestly it would be kinda hard to give a clear Alignment for henry since all routes/endings for the episodes are considered cannonical or considered true endings,honestly i think henry would either be on the chaotical part of the aligment wheel,but in the neutral part in the ones where he is supported by the goverment/pardoned or is allied with charles
and to be honest,henry basically tried to kill half of the cast
The way I see it, most government routes are good, most solo/thief routes are neutral, and most Toppat routes are evil. Of course, there are exceptions, but that’s just the way I see it.
I actually have written it out for fun, and that's basically the case. Not a hard rule but a decent enough one.
I mean, there's probably an ending with Henry as every alignment, but i'd say he generally leans Chaotic Neutral with a tilt towards Evil.
Okay for real though Chara is like True Neutral. Only following Frisk and being helpful or evil depending on the route.
When has Chara ever been actually helpful tho?
@@thomastakesatollforthedark2231 They gift you the memories of Asriel in the Pacifist route. Also I genuinely think Chara was a well meaning, although a bit of a humanity hater, when they were alive.
@@deathcon6261 I mean... I don't agree... At all. But I don't think either of us are willing to have that discussion now do we? This fandom doesn't need more toxicity
I hate how long I took to read the Wingdings message.
Anyway can’t wait.
In defense of alphys
sans is a characther that refuse to do anything against you no matter how many monsters you killed or tortured, the only way to make him do anything is by bring the world of undertale to its end, Alphys never realy did anything with bad intecions, and can even be made to improve as best as she can on her mistakes
specialy in the rarest neutral ending of undertale (Alphys ruler ending)
Okay an addendum to my Travis Touchdown proposition, he's a bit less of a knob than I remembered but he's still bordering villain protagonist and has LOADS of Nat 1s to look at
Criticism: Alphys did not insert herself into the story just to make herself feel important, but also because she believed that if you liked her enough she would be able to convince you not to leave the Underground, and thus the player character and Asgore wouldn't have to fight. Also although she may have accidentally created Flowey there's no evidence that she actually knew what he was. All the Lab Entries show is that she injected a flower with Determination and then it disappeared. I know this video is 7 months old but the misunderstanding of her character really bugged me.
Me too
BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD! SKULLS FOR THE SKULL THRONE! A LEGENDARY FOR LAVI! DETERMINATION FOR FRISK! Comments for the RUclips algorithm.
I don't think Khorn would approve of Frisk's pacifistic methods
After hearing what you say about Asgore I can only say this.
YES! FINALY! THANK YOU! Someone that see mine point of view! He is not evil! He never was! Even with mine first play I saw him as a person who do evil things (killing human child) for grater good (Give his people freedom and hope for the better future). Because of that I always thinking about him as character between Lawful Neutral and Lawful Good. I realy understand his motovacions during mine first play that I died 2 times throuth trying not fighting. He also knew he did bad things and I belive he destroyed MERCY button not to you could spare him but he was thinking he doesnt deserwe mercy. Even when you defeat him he still belives he doesnt deserwe it. Because of this actions I always like and had sympathy over him. And hearing you and agreeing with everything you say I can only answer with this... You made mine day.
Anoying Dog pretends to be Chaotic Prankster, but if you look closely at his actions, he's actually Lawfull Plot-Device ;)
There is method to his madness!
Thank you for showing off Gooey Cube's products (I came here because you were sponsored by them and sat through the whole video, like, and subbed even though I don't know Undertale at all just to say thank you)
38:48 Chara if you can hear me. It's because I want to support a creator who's passionate about his work. It's hard to be a teacher and an artist and he's so genuine and clever. Wich is more than can be said about you ya angsety piel of pixels
I think it's more implied that faced with a true villain
The self-proclaimed hero did what Alphies thought impossible
She made her own determination to stop the monster before her
Thus she in this moment became a True Hero surviving a fatal wound and paying the price for such a miracle
How is Woshua chaotic? He adheres to his washing code to the very end against all odds.
Completely agree with Alphys. It really annoyed me that I had to do a 'friendship is magic'-ending with her after finding out about the horrible and manipulative things she did.
yes! i love the idea of mixing undertale with DND!
I hesitate to call Toriel NG, and more a hidden CG. In her talk with Asgore, she says he could’ve gone through the barrier and taken the lives himself to then free the monsters instead of waiting for humans to come to him. It’s very dark of her.
See, you CAN make lawful good characters interesting! There are some amazing lawful good characters out there like percival king and undyne!
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in a neutrul route asgore acctualy kills himself to allow you to pass
Ya know, Asgore is my favorite character. He’s a sad and sympathetic villain, so much so that he’s not really a villain at all, just a different flavor of hero, and, come on, he’s adorable when he’s not trying to kill you. Also, not gonna lie, his boss fight theme SLAPS. So yeah.
Hm. He might be sad and sympathetic, but his is rather dimwitted and he honestly could have done a lot more to break the Barrier without forcing Frisk to do it for him.
@@Mark-fc7tu I mean, that’s kinda the point. He’s not an omnipotent god or anything; he’s just a nice guy trying to do what’s right for the people who look up to him. He’s supposed to be a bit dumb, and that kinda adds to his charm.
@@creativeusername7366 Eh. He still needs people to bail him out of moral dilemmas. And he's not that charming. Especially since the narrative wants you to see him as a loveable goofball, in-universe.
In writing, he probably would be classified as a heroic antagonist: A character who registers as a genuine hero role but the plot puts them on the 'baddie' side of the story anyway. At the least he's definitely anti-villain, which would be someone who's 100% villain but characteristically not villainous. yayyyy complications in terminology and analysis.
@@CarissaNomadic Hm? That implies that he's competent enough to be the hero or the villain of his own story.
If I don’t see one Sans is Ness reference I’m not going to be mad... just disappointed.
Spoilers and edit I guess
I am not disappointed
Metaton is weird case, in his neutral ending he becomes an evil dictator which is pretty on the iffy side (and theres hints of this in his hotel)
That weird Teletubby was wrong. I still use this channel to write out better characters in my stories. It helps in DnD. Whelp, who ever they were, happy one year since.
This game is so beautiful, the story, the characters, the music, the setting.... everything about this story can be seen as poetic and beautiful and even perfect in some cases. Truly love the game and loved the video.
1. I love how the changed the channel icon for this video and its ending
2. With the statement that asgore might want for you to kill him I completely agree because if you decided to take the finishing blow for just a moment as asgore is dying he has a smile what that smile means is up to interpretation but I think the way it was explained was beautiful in the Vin the video video
YOUR CHANNEL IS BEAUTIFUL PLS CONTINUE MAKING MORE
lol thank you :)
hell yas ill be checking out your store for some xmass gifts and to be honest you videos make me smile an right now we all need that
"Favorite Character: NESS!"
Ayyyy I got that reference ;)
Alphys never claimed to have created a soul from scratch, she claims to have created a robot with a soul. Ghosts don't seem to be considered souls, so this was still a lie, but a significantly less harmful one.
right. which is why I say CN. I just don't like alphys
Technically it's not a lie, she says the robot she created has a soul inside it, Mettaton is in the robot, Mettaton has a soul, and Mettaton's soul is in the robot with them
26:29 In defense of Alphys... I feel that she didn’t do the things she did for completely unreasonable, well... reasons. Though I will not deny that she was acting selfish, and irresponsible that was pretty clear from the gecko. But despite her intentions as a character not being as clear as the other characters in undertale. I personally relate to her in some capacity. I can sense that from her demeanor and obsessive intentions that she was very insecure and very lonely. I personally feel that in some way she more often then not hates herself and in some ways believes that she isn’t good enough, and suffers with anxiety and fears around making new friends and relationships, as well as rejection. I feel that her actions and intentions was her way of trying to protect herself from being rejected by others and to cope with her own insecurities about herself. The way she went around it was not healthy and did more harm then good yes, but I still feel that this was the reason she acted the way she did.
Am glad you're doing a lot better and making content again I love what you do
I'm in control !
I
AM IN
CONTROL
CHARA
there needs to be a new alignment just for jerry
When you started talking about Asgore, I got choked up.
28:00 I am not sure about this analysis of Alphys. Like you said she fd up a ton. A hella ton. And with each of her fuck ups, she tried to do something that would get someone to actually forgive her. Amalgams failed? It would hurt their families, so let's keep quiet and do other stuff with determination to make sure Asgore isn't too upset. Flower injected with determination is gone? Eh, whatever. Its not like it would gain time travel capabilities right? Still it feels off that I have done nothing in regards to determination project, so let's inject Undyne with it (ironically the one time it yielded some result).
Actually not sure where you took the "Metaton is presented to Asgore as a soul from scratch creation" thing from.
In the end, she fucked up, and was afraid of retribution and just tried to hide and bottle everything up as she tried to solve the issues as they just kept piling up and up. Also you have a crush on the 2nd most beloved monster in the underground and all you have to show for your success is fuck ups...and there comes Frisk, chipper as can be on his adventure, and a chance to show yourself to be useful...admittedly through self-made reasons (although in the end Metaton went for his own agenda and you did need her help)
I actually like Alphys's character arc. Prior to doing True Lab, I admit, the rating of borderline chaotic neutral/evil is justified. Post lab, she definitely shifts to regular chaotic neutral
The amalgams wasn't on purpose and she convinced herself that it would be for the better if they where never found, it wasn't easy and isn't happy with it, but she doesn't really have many options either, i mean, it's not as simple as just going "hey that experimental cure turned your family members into an undying abomination"
When the flower dissapeared she couldn't have known that it would become a murdering psycho, i mean, it escaped, what do you want her to do? setup a search party? she's doing all of her work in secret
I don't remember Undyne ever getting injected with determination, as far as the lore goes she's just too determined for a normal monster, it isn't like monsters can't be determined
Metatton was Alphys star experiment that made her become the royal scientist, she said that it was essentially an artificial soul when in reality it was a pre-existing soul inside a robotic body, this is rather chaotic neutral but we can easily assume Mettaton also pushed her into going trough with it, since it was his dream to be famous
Alphy shows her fucked up side when she sees Frisk killing monsters (even if in self defense) and does nada to solve the issue, but that's pretty much the only part and could be explained by her being extra weird
A reminder that she is NOT happy with her own decisions in life, it's even assumed she commits suicide in most neutral-genocide endings since she dissapears and no one, not even Sans can find it, he even says in a very serious tone "i can't find her anywhere, believe me, i tried"
The only endings where this doesn't happen is when she's the only one left to rule and decides to keep it togheter for the good of the rest of the monsters
I agree with most of what you two said. but I will clarify a few things
1) there is never a line of text that says alphys injected undyne with determination. however the melting animation and her dialog implying she spoke with alphys before leading up to the fight makes me think she did (it's a commonly accepted theory)
2) creating metaton was one of the reasons alphys was so respected. metaton was a lie. I can't find the exact spot where it's said but it's somewhere in the game.
3) alphys manipulated asgore, metaton, and frisk for her own purposes. she wanted to feel close to them because she hates herself. I can empathize and sympathise with those remarks but all of that was selfish and wrong. she even lies to undyne about anime...I mean...that's played off as a joke...but still, all of her actions were for her benefit and not anyone else's (with the exception of the amalgymatea...that's kinda sad. tough spot to be put in)
oh yeah! and as far as flowey. she acted real nervous when she heard papyrus talking about it. almost like she knew he was bad news
@@TheLoadingCrew 1 and 2 - fair enough
3 - this is why I do still agree with your rating of borderline chaotic neutral/evil right up until post true lab, it started with ambiguous situation until it trickled down to a point where she was lying about smallest of issues such as Undyne and anime lol (though admittedly, we don't know how different outside world is to the real world (even if Alphys doesnt). Perhaps there were magical swords and princesses (considering the seal, humans can use magic). When the lies are starting to get unraveled, her mental state takes a hard down turn (in endings where mettaton dies, Alphys is heavily implied to commit suicide, and in non date endings, she is implied to have sealed herself in the true lab), unless Frisk helps her through it, and makes her do the hardest thing a lier can do - tell the truth.
As per flowey, he likely exhibited conscious life signs to her, and then proceeded on playing with time and space. Considering Sans only had suspicions from minimal interaction with him, I think its unlikely Alphys knew he had time travel capabilities
@@TheLoadingCrew I've literally never heard that theory before in my life
I can't help but feel like through the shield of a chara that you were venting just a little bit, so like are you doing good? You okay?
Also, you said that we just don't know enough about any of the NPC's that are never encountered in battle within the game, to justify an alignment, but there was actually a pretty good majority of them that had a lot more observable personality than a lot of characters you DID give an alignment to.
Ok…I’m almost certainly missing the joke…but what’s the implied reason muffit attacks you? I’m genuinely curious
There are afew reasons, most of them money related.
1) She assumes your an irachniphobe.
2) She's mad you didn't buy stuff from her.
3) She wants to turn you into food.
4) She was payed to capture your soul.
Poor Asriel
Dude went through so much at such a young age
He was brainwashed by a human that claimed to be a good friend, had to sacrifice himself to save many human lives, suffered because of his kindness, was revived as a soulless flower finding the underground near devoid of hope, had attempted suicide (as flowey) multiple times, was unable to feel love, and would do anything just to see his adopted sibling and best friend again
You found a way to brighten my day. Now if only it wasn't coming out past my usual bed time. XD
no joke that tiny itty bitty clip of megalovania made me shiver.
About Undyne: her Determination is actually natural...as in, she was BORN with it.
Muffet ranking: "She understands a good deal!"
HER FOOD WAS LITERALLY MORE THAN 4000GP A PIECE....so yeah you right.
good deal for HER. pay attention :P
28:10 eeeeeeeeeh. Most of the information from the tapes is inferred. The plan alone is not clear from the tapes. The holes are filled by Asriel later. I don't see how the tapes could be anything for Asgore or even Alphys herself couldve been confused about their content.
I've been going about and done some language immersion for the equivalent of 5 months, Undertale has Japanese within the settings so I thought this was the perfect game to immerse in the language with alongside Japanese RUclips on a separate channel tailored for only Japanese in mind.
This will be a very fun watch after going a little while away from English content.
TheLoadingCrew: I’m onto you Grillby
Grillby: shit how’d you know?! 🔪
Nuh uh uh! You missed every possible phone call for every single character! :)
5:19 "Next is Froggit"
absent minded person: I Forgot It
*drops mic and walks out*
The tsundere plane could be a playful nod towards the various anime that personify war vehicles as anime high school girls?
My predictions before watching:
Asgore-Lawful Good
Toriel-Neutral Good
Monster Kid-Neutral Good
Asriel-Chaotic Good
Papyrus-Chaotic Good
Undyne-Chaotic Good
Alphys-Lawful Neutral
Sans-Lawful Neutral
Napstablook-Neutral
Mad Mew Mew-Neutral
Mettaton-Chaotic Neutral
Annoying Dog-Chaotic Neutral
Muffet-Lawful Evil
Mad Dummy-Neutral Evil
Flowey-Chaotic Evil
Jerry-Chaotic Evil
Chara-starts Chaotic Neutral, becomes Chaotic Evil during Genocide
Frisk-starts Neutral, alignment changes based off choices, good in pacifist, evil in genocide
Well I got a lot of them.
Asgore aspires to be lawfull good, but I don't think he is. Same thing with any monster who trys to murder Frisk in a passifist run. Yes I hold that against them, and "It's for their people," does not make it moral to murder children. (Althogh their alignment may shift toward good later.)
...
Sans is more True-Netral, because he's such a prankster.
“The best characters often have a good reason for doing it but the worst ones are just violent abusers who the writers just play off as being cute and quirky parts of their character.”
YES. This is precisely why I can’t stand most anime tsunderes. I see a handful of good ones (ex. Emilia in The Devil is a Part-Timer- Sadao’s forces LITERALLY RAZED HER HOMETOWN so she genuinely hated him, and the part of her character arc where she seems to warm up to him was just her genuinely letting go of her grudge as she finds out he’s actually a decent person.)
Um akshually, Sans can't remember previous timelines, he just knows about them and is really good at reading faces
26:01 at the very least the Yellow Soul Of Justice should definitely be on the good side of the spectrum since their defining trait is literally wanting people to be punished for any crimes they committed
“I’m sure that won’t come up again”
*megalovania plays in the distance*
37:25 YOU MAY HAVE POWER OVER THE GAME WORLD BUT NONE OVER THE VIDEO! *hits pause button*
HAHAHAH! that actually made me laugh. nice one xD
30:00 I wasn’t ready for the feels to be brought back
Nice vid, I agree with pretty much everything, except Alphys.
I think you were a bit too harsh on her, and thus made her out to be a lot worse of a person, er, monster, than she actually is. While I do agree with you in that her lying to you in the neutral run wasn't exactly a good thing, and she was indeed a little selfish, that alone doesn't make her bad.
When it comes to what we see in the true Lab, you weren't exactly right with your facts. The reason Asgore commissioned Alphys wasn't just to monkey around with DT (DETERMINATION), it was because Asgore wanted to find another way to break the barrier, so he wouldn't have to hurt anymore humans. As for the experiments themselves, the intent of the DT experiments was NOT to revive dying monsters, that was NEVER the goal. Rather, Alphys wanted to see if she could make a monsters soul linger after death the same way human souls do. Thats why Asgore went around asking for the bodies of monsters that had "fallen down" (Read: fallen into a coma that they wouldn't ever awaken from, leading to their deaths). The fact that said monsters ended up coming back to life was a completely unintended outcome, though not an unwelcome one as Alphys herself notes.
But as you are no doubt aware, things went HORRIBLY wrong. Now as stated prior, the original purpose of the DT injections was to allow the monster souls to linger after death, but obviously that didn't happen. To be fair, neither Alphys, nor Asgore knew a thing about how monster bodies would react to large ammounts of DT. She didn't realize until too late that monster bodies couldn't handle large ammounts of DT. The unexpected end result essentially traumatized Alphys, causing her self-esteem and sense of self worth to PLUMMET. It got so bad, she actually began to contemplate suicide. (Thats why she was at the edge of that waterfall, and why she was looking into the abyss below) Thankfully, Undyne saved Alphys and kept her from going through with it (though Undyne had no idea), but Alphys still had issues she hadn't worked through yet. A big part of the reason Alphys lies about some things is not because she is selfish, but because she's afraid of how others would see her if they ever knew the truth.
As for flowey, I feel you are unfairly laying blame for his actions at Alphys feet. Yes, she did technically "create him", but much like the other DT experiment, that wasn't at all what she was trying to do. To put it simply, even if they got enough monster souls to linger, they would still need some way to utilize them in breaking the barrier, and thats where the flower comes in. You see, a monster cannot absorb other monster souls, the same way a human cannot absorb human souls (no, asriel doesn't count as he was still flowey when he absorbed every soul in the underground). As such, the flower was meant to act as a host for the monster souls, so to speak. Unfortunately, there was an unexpected element in the mix, the dust of the fallen prince, Asriel. You see, Alphys had no way of knowing that some of Asriels dust was still present on the flower she injected with DT, as such, when the DT mixed with Asriels dust and the flower to create flowey, it was another unintended outcome. To be fair, Alphys likely wasn't even aware of floweys existance, at least at first. Flowey essentially vamoosed after his creation, dissapearing before Alphys could become aware of what happened.
Long story short, i would place Alphys as being Neutral Good.
As a massive fan of this game, I hate 2 things about this video.
1. Rick Sanchez is a very different character from Sans. Sans was worn down into nihilism because of the resets. Rick uses nihilism as an excuse for the morally dubious nature of his actions.
2. Chara is not any form of Evil. Chara grew to hate humans because of an ambiguous backstory that lead them to suicide attempt on Mt. Ebott. Chara is the narrator for the game. Chara's appearance at the end of the Genocide ending is the result of the player corrupting them by actively choosing to kill every monster they can in the underground. People far too often use Chara as a scapegoat for their own actions.
1) the comparison isn't unwarranted. there's more similarities than differences
2) I never stated charas alignment
@TheLoadingCrew. Amazing, thought-provoking and fun video. You did a lot of the characters justice, and I had fun listening to. Whats the song you used with Papyrus driving at 3:48?
dejavu by eurobeat :)