I think the Faker lines and Thief lines placements are kind of weird. Thief and its lineage is by far the only viable dodge tanker so it’s automatically good because dodging basically skips turns (2 at first and all with equipment at the magic shop) for most of the early/mid bosses. You don’t need Royal Thief. Just debuffing and buffing is enough in most cases. In my experience, the thief lineage can literally dodge the superbosses to death as they don’t have a “cheat” mechanic to really deal with it effectively. The damage doesn’t matter if you gain net turns against a enemy. “The skills are bad!” Yeah, but we don’t talk about how the Knight does no damage without Synthesis for most of the game. Meanwhile the Assassin can debuff and also attack at the same time with its starting skill. Steal is also fine because you don’t have to steal constantly. The argument that you steal mostly status effect items is ridiculous because I’m pretty sure you can steal healing and mp items. Or maybe that you don’t need to steal boss items cuz you get exclusive weapons from elite enemies. Speaking of net turns, the Faker’s rng is a joke. You can literally restart any battle if you roll bad to gain the maximum amount of turns. It’s not hard and you want to deal as much setup and damage on first turn anyways. The only thing it is bad at is normal squad battles, but just feed it exp leaves or have a really strong farming class to pick up the slack. No flame, I think you undervalue a lot of game mechanics that are part of the meta. Unless you are desperately struggling on normal enemies, the bosses matter much more. As such, the Thief and Faker are valuable against most of the bosses. It requires a lot of planning sure, but it’s optimal. Nothing against you bro, that’s just my two cents
Thank you for leaving a comment explaining what you disagree with rather than just calling me wrong lol, because reading and hearing about other players perspectives and experiences was something that I was really looking forward to when making the video, and I really do appriciate hearing your opinion on my list and the classes. While I don't entirely agree with everything you said it is refreshing to actually have more of a dialouge about it, and it gives me a better chance to maybe explain why I placed where I placed, and some more of my thought process. And this is not me trying to explain why I think I'm objectively right, or that you're wrong, but rather just using the comment section as a way to have a discussion about the game and the balancing. I will definitley admit that I might have undervalued the thief a little bit in terms of it's dodge tanking potential, and that's def something I'll keep in mind to try if I ever play through the game again. And like I said I wasn't able to equally try out every single class in every situation so I am glad that people are letting me know about that, but I still do feel like in terms of what I found to be the most successful party lineup in the game, it just didn't really have as much of a place. I ended up finding a lot more success in regular peel tanking with party wide buffs and enemy debuffs. I haven't truly tried the dodge tanking lineup as much as I fully could have, but in my impressions when researching and writing the script it really felt like yeah that's solid, but it doesn't in theory at least in my mind stack up quite as much, because there are a lot of bosses with multitarget attacks that I think that the dodge tanker couldn't protect the rest of the party from as well. And I think generally a lot of the classes that I did place lower are the ones that just get outclassed by other classes that just do the things better, so even if thief is good at tanking, in my experience in my first playthrough I just had so much more success with other things, and maybe yeah there is a little bit of bias built in there, and that's definitely something to keep in mind for future playthroughs. The reason that I feel that assassin, or more specifically, assassinate isn't as good is because I feel like the game gives so much incredible access to enemy party wide debuffing that anything that was single target debuff just was inherently valued lower in my head, because in my mind it covers any situation a little better, and that's why I have things like soul hacker and summoner closer to the top. My mind will definitely never change on faker though probably, most of the skills are just on so many other classes with other added benefits, aside from maybe debiliate, but even then that's still not as good or efficient as other classes like once again the summoner, or literally any other class that has access to debuffs on attacks. On the topic of the rng move I probably will never change my mind on that either as anything where you have to rely on getting lucky, even if you technically CAN reroll over and over again is something that I feel like is just inherently not as good as the things that you can count on and plan on consistently working as intended. The main thing though yeah I completely agree with you on is how the regular encounter enemies don't matter in the slightest. Those battles are literally decided by who stuns who in the active combat, and the literal only times I ever game overed in this game were because some random enemy hit me in the field, so my rankings are for the most part ranked based on their performance in boss battles, and the ones better for the regular. encounters are just inherently placed lower.
Yes, Thief is so important. Plunder Magic makes dungeon runs possible without wasting many days. Steal on normal enemies can result in rly great weapons and equipment procured. The class itself may suck to play as but the inherited skills are ESSENTIAL. It is the only class all my 8 characters have at least 13rank to. It is an essential class imo. To see it ranked at the bottom def was not a good start for the video for me. Also crazy to me to see Paladin ranked so low. The counter skills become very important to use against bosses that have so much turns
Merchant is pretty strong id say the glaze is earned. Gold Attack has a base 35% Crit Chance and works amazingly well with Skills you get in the early game like Heat Up and Diligent Discipline. Its also a strategy that works for pretty much every battle since its Almighty and its self sufficient with how much money you get from the overworld. Not really about Merchant but iirc this game uses the same formula as P3R when comparing Luck for Crit Chance.
Merchant was such an important class to me early on in the game. And since Tycoon becomes an incredibly important class later on, Merchant was an essential class for many of my characters to master
I took the trickster debuffs and put them on my ninja. It was nice having a character that could steal, then concentrate on defuffing while having an amazing dodge chance
Gunner lineage is my least favorite of them all. The only thing I really like is being able to attack at range from the overworld. Impossible to be ambushed when main protagonist is equipped with a Gunner. But overall, it just sucks.
Yeah I’ll admit the ranged action field combat was kinda neat. I was frankly horrible at the action combat so that actually might have been useful for me lol
Really, I don’t think this list is bad, I just think you’re a tad bit too harsh on the some of the classes, especially the Royal Classes. Rule of thumb for any ability in a JRPG you get in the final hours of the game: They are probably the last powers you get in the game for a very good reason. As someone who also went for a magic build for the protagonist, my response was mainly just making the protagonist a Jack of All Trades (because that’s what he is) and just leave the more generalize stat builds to the other characters. IMO, all of the Royal Archetypes are some of the strongest Archetypes in the game (Warlord is just busted though with Dynast Formation, but I digress). Prince is meant for the final fights in the game because most of the enemies you fight in the endgame are humans, Prince has attacks that destroy Human enemies. Prince in general does everything the Seeker linage does but better. And really, there are plenty of enemies left to fight before the endgame where you have plenty of time to max the Follower Ranks, plenty of which like Strohl, should have been maxed out long ago. And as much as I agree that Warlord is OP, many of the Classes here are also unlocked late into the game, and arguably later than Prince, so… IDK. I do agree with Thief being the worst class, but Heismay’s Speed is one of the things that makes Warlord on him the best to use.
I definitely agree with you in the sense that I really do think that the royal archetypes are strong, but idk in my mind I feel like I have to at least knock a couple points off for their limited availability. Like they’re so strong but pretty much 95% of what the game is asking you to do, they’re just unavailable. Not that I’m detracting their usefulness for the endgame, but even then at that point, I feel like I already had a pretty strong set up that I was confident in. If there was a little bit more end/postgame content for them to be used in, I would definitely place them higher, but outside of the tower trials and the final human gauntlet I just didn’t feel like they brought anything to the table outside of that Prince is so fucking busted though yeah I had to put that all the way up lol
Calling healer bad because of strike weakness while giving the commander line the top spots. This tier list is being made by big Commander! Ninja S tier fans we have to rise up! Seriously what's wrong with Medi and Medica? How are you meant to buy armor when you spend 200k on full party medium heals? Nice video by the way!
I definitley feel as if commander has infinitley better stats and skills, notably things like heartbreak strategem, as well as one of the strong combo pieces through vigor formation, and its synthesis skills are some of the best support abilities in the game, so I'm way more lenient towards its strike weakness. I also just think the healer line in the game is not very good. Same with like faker where on paper its not that bad, but when there are just classes in the game that do it's job just as well, if not better, as well as in general providing a lot more, it just makes them feel borderline useless. In the healing department I personally got a lot more useage out of the cheap healing items paired with item connoisseur, and even outside of that there are quite a decent amount of healing skills on other classes. Magic Knight's Mediline specifically pairs extrememely well with a lot of the formation spam. It's definitely not that I feel like healer is unusable, the only unusable class I would genuinely have to say is the early thief line, but it's just so pointless, as well as having these big weaknesses.
Assassin is fantastic midgame, the damage is fine and that stacking hit and dodge debuff is a lifesaver And hyper isnt once per battle, you can use it as often as you want, it was just bad wording because the buff wears off after it is used. And heismay is literally the best tank in the game....far from the worst character. This tier list 😂😂😂😂
That is good to know about hyper thank you for correcting me. And yeah I totally agree with heismay having some INCREDIBLE utility with royal thief, but with unlocking it literally so late into the game I just really didn’t get much use out of him
@JakeGigs it isnt just royal theif though knights proclaimation, naturally high agi and agi buffs or debuffs. Buy dodger ring as early as possible and heismay becomes the best tank then and there.
No, I definitely think tycoon rocks, like you said gold rush is just an INSANE skill. But I can’t really say the same thing about merchant unfortunately
Merchant is one of the best classes for resource management. It uses currency instead of parameters and it easily gets that currency back simply by whacking enemies in the overworld, and the class is also by far the best way to make money in the early game if you're short on it. You can easily 1 day main story dungeons with MC as a Merchant. It deserves to be near the top of any tier list.
I got HELLA use out of hiesmays thief lineage especially late game when his agility is through the roof and he has the passive skill to remove all enemy turns when they miss
Idk if it was a glitch, or if it was just wording but the skills that said "once per battle" does not really mean once per battle. I can use Charge and Hyper again, but you must attack before you're able to. I played on Hard mode on PC and just tested this to confirm. I've been able to spam charge on Prince Archetype MC and two shot most of the bosses.
Me personally i think the whole argument you have for trickster and faker is kinda wonky see what if, and it's a big if, the enemy blocks/repels your debuff attack? It'd be a waste of a turn to just inflict a weakness for that debuff attack wouldn't it? Also yeah all Royal lineage archetypes are unlocked at the end of the game for how busted they are have you seen Royal berserker kill Louis by himself? I believe that there is a really really good reason you get them late the only one i think is not even that good by itself would be Royal fighter and even then there are a lot of ways to make it work, in my personal opinion warlord isn't even worth it if you already have the two formation skills inherited from it also Royal summoner has the best revive skill and better summons that the normal summoner so... Yeah i don't agree with most of your list but it's ok we just don't value the same things.... Price is defo #1
I just feel like with how late they come in they are just hard to call as useful because most of the bosses you can’t use or rely on them. I do think that they’re strong but I wanted to at least keep availability in mind when making the list. That and spreading them out more gave the list a little more variety I feel like
I think the Faker lines and Thief lines placements are kind of weird. Thief and its lineage is by far the only viable dodge tanker so it’s automatically good because dodging basically skips turns (2 at first and all with equipment at the magic shop) for most of the early/mid bosses. You don’t need Royal Thief. Just debuffing and buffing is enough in most cases. In my experience, the thief lineage can literally dodge the superbosses to death as they don’t have a “cheat” mechanic to really deal with it effectively. The damage doesn’t matter if you gain net turns against a enemy. “The skills are bad!” Yeah, but we don’t talk about how the Knight does no damage without Synthesis for most of the game. Meanwhile the Assassin can debuff and also attack at the same time with its starting skill. Steal is also fine because you don’t have to steal constantly. The argument that you steal mostly status effect items is ridiculous because I’m pretty sure you can steal healing and mp items. Or maybe that you don’t need to steal boss items cuz you get exclusive weapons from elite enemies.
Speaking of net turns, the Faker’s rng is a joke. You can literally restart any battle if you roll bad to gain the maximum amount of turns. It’s not hard and you want to deal as much setup and damage on first turn anyways. The only thing it is bad at is normal squad battles, but just feed it exp leaves or have a really strong farming class to pick up the slack.
No flame, I think you undervalue a lot of game mechanics that are part of the meta. Unless you are desperately struggling on normal enemies, the bosses matter much more. As such, the Thief and Faker are valuable against most of the bosses. It requires a lot of planning sure, but it’s optimal.
Nothing against you bro, that’s just my two cents
Thank you for leaving a comment explaining what you disagree with rather than just calling me wrong lol, because reading and hearing about other players perspectives and experiences was something that I was really looking forward to when making the video, and I really do appriciate hearing your opinion on my list and the classes. While I don't entirely agree with everything you said it is refreshing to actually have more of a dialouge about it, and it gives me a better chance to maybe explain why I placed where I placed, and some more of my thought process. And this is not me trying to explain why I think I'm objectively right, or that you're wrong, but rather just using the comment section as a way to have a discussion about the game and the balancing.
I will definitley admit that I might have undervalued the thief a little bit in terms of it's dodge tanking potential, and that's def something I'll keep in mind to try if I ever play through the game again. And like I said I wasn't able to equally try out every single class in every situation so I am glad that people are letting me know about that, but I still do feel like in terms of what I found to be the most successful party lineup in the game, it just didn't really have as much of a place. I ended up finding a lot more success in regular peel tanking with party wide buffs and enemy debuffs.
I haven't truly tried the dodge tanking lineup as much as I fully could have, but in my impressions when researching and writing the script it really felt like yeah that's solid, but it doesn't in theory at least in my mind stack up quite as much, because there are a lot of bosses with multitarget attacks that I think that the dodge tanker couldn't protect the rest of the party from as well.
And I think generally a lot of the classes that I did place lower are the ones that just get outclassed by other classes that just do the things better, so even if thief is good at tanking, in my experience in my first playthrough I just had so much more success with other things, and maybe yeah there is a little bit of bias built in there, and that's definitely something to keep in mind for future playthroughs.
The reason that I feel that assassin, or more specifically, assassinate isn't as good is because I feel like the game gives so much incredible access to enemy party wide debuffing that anything that was single target debuff just was inherently valued lower in my head, because in my mind it covers any situation a little better, and that's why I have things like soul hacker and summoner closer to the top.
My mind will definitely never change on faker though probably, most of the skills are just on so many other classes with other added benefits, aside from maybe debiliate, but even then that's still not as good or efficient as other classes like once again the summoner, or literally any other class that has access to debuffs on attacks.
On the topic of the rng move I probably will never change my mind on that either as anything where you have to rely on getting lucky, even if you technically CAN reroll over and over again is something that I feel like is just inherently not as good as the things that you can count on and plan on consistently working as intended.
The main thing though yeah I completely agree with you on is how the regular encounter enemies don't matter in the slightest. Those battles are literally decided by who stuns who in the active combat, and the literal only times I ever game overed in this game were because some random enemy hit me in the field, so my rankings are for the most part ranked based on their performance in boss battles, and the ones better for the regular. encounters are just inherently placed lower.
Wow. Immediately wrong.
I definitely can’t or won’t pretend like my list is 100% objective or factual, but I am curious what in particular you disagree with
Yes, Thief is so important. Plunder Magic makes dungeon runs possible without wasting many days. Steal on normal enemies can result in rly great weapons and equipment procured. The class itself may suck to play as but the inherited skills are ESSENTIAL. It is the only class all my 8 characters have at least 13rank to. It is an essential class imo. To see it ranked at the bottom def was not a good start for the video for me.
Also crazy to me to see Paladin ranked so low. The counter skills become very important to use against bosses that have so much turns
Merchant is pretty strong id say the glaze is earned.
Gold Attack has a base 35% Crit Chance and works amazingly well with Skills you get in the early game like Heat Up and Diligent Discipline. Its also a strategy that works for pretty much every battle since its Almighty and its self sufficient with how much money you get from the overworld.
Not really about Merchant but iirc this game uses the same formula as P3R when comparing Luck for Crit Chance.
Merchant was such an important class to me early on in the game. And since Tycoon becomes an incredibly important class later on, Merchant was an essential class for many of my characters to master
I took the trickster debuffs and put them on my ninja. It was nice having a character that could steal, then concentrate on defuffing while having an amazing dodge chance
Mechant ??? Should be on top 10 !!! Underrated
Meraphor MERCHANTAZIO !!!
I like tycoon but I feel like merchant just is kinda rough in combat with a bunch of these skills. I do however like all the extra gold
Gunner lineage is my least favorite of them all. The only thing I really like is being able to attack at range from the overworld. Impossible to be ambushed when main protagonist is equipped with a Gunner. But overall, it just sucks.
Yeah I’ll admit the ranged action field combat was kinda neat. I was frankly horrible at the action combat so that actually might have been useful for me lol
Really, I don’t think this list is bad, I just think you’re a tad bit too harsh on the some of the classes, especially the Royal Classes.
Rule of thumb for any ability in a JRPG you get in the final hours of the game: They are probably the last powers you get in the game for a very good reason.
As someone who also went for a magic build for the protagonist, my response was mainly just making the protagonist a Jack of All Trades (because that’s what he is) and just leave the more generalize stat builds to the other characters.
IMO, all of the Royal Archetypes are some of the strongest Archetypes in the game (Warlord is just busted though with Dynast Formation, but I digress).
Prince is meant for the final fights in the game because most of the enemies you fight in the endgame are humans, Prince has attacks that destroy Human enemies. Prince in general does everything the Seeker linage does but better.
And really, there are plenty of enemies left to fight before the endgame where you have plenty of time to max the Follower Ranks, plenty of which like Strohl, should have been maxed out long ago.
And as much as I agree that Warlord is OP, many of the Classes here are also unlocked late into the game, and arguably later than Prince, so… IDK.
I do agree with Thief being the worst class, but Heismay’s Speed is one of the things that makes Warlord on him the best to use.
I definitely agree with you in the sense that I really do think that the royal archetypes are strong, but idk in my mind I feel like I have to at least knock a couple points off for their limited availability.
Like they’re so strong but pretty much 95% of what the game is asking you to do, they’re just unavailable. Not that I’m detracting their usefulness for the endgame, but even then at that point, I feel like I already had a pretty strong set up that I was confident in.
If there was a little bit more end/postgame content for them to be used in, I would definitely place them higher, but outside of the tower trials and the final human gauntlet I just didn’t feel like they brought anything to the table outside of that
Prince is so fucking busted though yeah I had to put that all the way up lol
Wat, how can you agree about Thief being the worst? “Plunder Magic” is my counter-argument
Calling healer bad because of strike weakness while giving the commander line the top spots. This tier list is being made by big Commander! Ninja S tier fans we have to rise up!
Seriously what's wrong with Medi and Medica? How are you meant to buy armor when you spend 200k on full party medium heals?
Nice video by the way!
I definitley feel as if commander has infinitley better stats and skills, notably things like heartbreak strategem, as well as one of the strong combo pieces through vigor formation, and its synthesis skills are some of the best support abilities in the game, so I'm way more lenient towards its strike weakness.
I also just think the healer line in the game is not very good. Same with like faker where on paper its not that bad, but when there are just classes in the game that do it's job just as well, if not better, as well as in general providing a lot more, it just makes them feel borderline useless.
In the healing department I personally got a lot more useage out of the cheap healing items paired with item connoisseur, and even outside of that there are quite a decent amount of healing skills on other classes. Magic Knight's Mediline specifically pairs extrememely well with a lot of the formation spam.
It's definitely not that I feel like healer is unusable, the only unusable class I would genuinely have to say is the early thief line, but it's just so pointless, as well as having these big weaknesses.
Assassin is fantastic midgame, the damage is fine and that stacking hit and dodge debuff is a lifesaver
And hyper isnt once per battle, you can use it as often as you want, it was just bad wording because the buff wears off after it is used.
And heismay is literally the best tank in the game....far from the worst character.
This tier list 😂😂😂😂
That is good to know about hyper thank you for correcting me. And yeah I totally agree with heismay having some INCREDIBLE utility with royal thief, but with unlocking it literally so late into the game I just really didn’t get much use out of him
@JakeGigs it isnt just royal theif though knights proclaimation, naturally high agi and agi buffs or debuffs. Buy dodger ring as early as possible and heismay becomes the best tank then and there.
Merchant being #45..
Sir hold my 4 tycoon gold rush with berserker and warrior attack boosting abilities
With the the the merchant ultimate weapon…
No, I definitely think tycoon rocks, like you said gold rush is just an INSANE skill. But I can’t really say the same thing about merchant unfortunately
@ I was joking, I get you. But through my first play through being hard. Farming and getting money is all it was good for early game
Merchant is one of the best classes for resource management. It uses currency instead of parameters and it easily gets that currency back simply by whacking enemies in the overworld, and the class is also by far the best way to make money in the early game if you're short on it. You can easily 1 day main story dungeons with MC as a Merchant. It deserves to be near the top of any tier list.
I got HELLA use out of hiesmays thief lineage especially late game when his agility is through the roof and he has the passive skill to remove all enemy turns when they miss
I do think it’s really strong by that point I just feel like the pre-requisite for all that is kinda rough and comes into play too late
Idk if it was a glitch, or if it was just wording but the skills that said "once per battle" does not really mean once per battle. I can use Charge and Hyper again, but you must attack before you're able to. I played on Hard mode on PC and just tested this to confirm. I've been able to spam charge on Prince Archetype MC and two shot most of the bosses.
@@weepingblade its not a bug just really bad wording that lies.
Yeah I did end up realizing about that after making the video. That’s so weird how it’s written like that
Warload is the best magic damage
Love me some warlord
Me personally i think the whole argument you have for trickster and faker is kinda wonky see what if, and it's a big if, the enemy blocks/repels your debuff attack? It'd be a waste of a turn to just inflict a weakness for that debuff attack wouldn't it? Also yeah all Royal lineage archetypes are unlocked at the end of the game for how busted they are have you seen Royal berserker kill Louis by himself? I believe that there is a really really good reason you get them late the only one i think is not even that good by itself would be Royal fighter and even then there are a lot of ways to make it work, in my personal opinion warlord isn't even worth it if you already have the two formation skills inherited from it also Royal summoner has the best revive skill and better summons that the normal summoner so... Yeah i don't agree with most of your list but it's ok we just don't value the same things.... Price is defo #1
I just feel like with how late they come in they are just hard to call as useful because most of the bosses you can’t use or rely on them. I do think that they’re strong but I wanted to at least keep availability in mind when making the list.
That and spreading them out more gave the list a little more variety I feel like
This guy's bottom tiers are all S tier lol (except for gunner, that lineage is kinda trash)
At least we can agree on that!
Healer is so bad, lol.
Its best role for having strike for that one fight before Brawler is funny.
Healer lineage is crucial to inherit skills from. If you disagree, it's safe to say you haven't played on hard or regicide.
items and Seeker work well enough. I only really ever used inherited Hama from it for like 3 fights total.
It's your only source of dekunda though
@@M1sterE321 I fully played on hard but go on. It's only needed for skill transfer