Always liked that idea that players could have the freedom to leave their chosen faction, wouldn’t really help gameplay wise, but having a group of players being a neutral faction seems more fluffy and gets at that RPG feel
Yeah this is what I wanted to see from cross faction play, maybe a few quests to assassinate high value targets in the opposing faction to earn the trust of that faction. That is in the event of leaving a faction and joining another. Seems like common sense to allow these kinds of choices at this point since they already threw the faction war in the trash made the game World of Peace craft
Old-school EverQuest was alot like this. They went deep into factions and reputation.Your race, class and even religion all played a role in which cities and factions were hostile to you and there were hundreds of different factions. You could usually find ways to grind rep to become friendly to enter the city, or interact with merchants, quests, trainers etc... OR you could just roll an enchanter, which can use illusion magic to disguise as other races, which automatically changes your reputation to what it would be by for that race, or cast other spells like "benevolence" on an NPC which gives a temporary faction increase, which allowed evil races to enter good cities and vice versa without any rep grinding whatsoever.
It is a common misconception that high elves became blood elves when they joined the horde in tbc. They became blood elves all the way back in the wc3 tft, long before wow was even released. Some of them remained high elves though, which are the ones that are alliance friendly.
High elves are just evolved Kaldorei who left after The Sundering when using The Well's powers were stopped. Illidan gave them a bottle of water from the OG well which they used to create the Sunwell and continued to live with it's energies. But the Sunwell wasn't as powerful as The Well of Eternity so they got shorter and pale, now calling themselves High elves and later Blood elves after humans used them as cannon fodder and slaves against The Scourge and they left The Alliance.
@@dartimes6048 Actually High elves are the same as Blood elves, they changed their name after leaving Alliance. High elves evolved from Kaldorei when they left the rest, who now are called Night elves, to continue using Well of Eternity's powers by creating The Sunwell... I don't know where you get that shit but I literally grew up with Warcraft series and later WoW, plus I'm a lore nerd and Blood elves are my favorite faction in the game, so sorry but nope
One other thing that made the Wintersaber unique was that it traveled at epic riding speed without requiring epic riding. I never got the mount until Cataclysm. I remember flying out from Theramore over 20 days on my mage to get it.
And i found out that if you get the saber, you unlock and receive the Ravasaur automatically on you Horde toon. Imagine my surprise when I made my 1st ever Hordie and noticed a raptor mount that WASNT from the MOP Isle of Giants' bones grind I did during Remix! So im assuming if you do it the other way around, even if you're hated with the wintersaber clan, you can still get the saber mount :o
I think it would be rad if they looked at this old bug for inspiration to add a turncoat system to let people play their chosen race on the opposite faction, and making it so the moment you hit neutral with the enemy faction’s city, your character is officially now part of the other faction
I got this back in Vanilla when I saw another gnome with it. It took a very long time before this was more common among people, but I am pretty sure I was one of the first gnomes to get the Wintersaber / Frostsaber mount on my server. Even my first alliance alt was named Runeclothlaf, because I used her to store all the runecloth I needed to get exalted with Darnassus. Basically: If you were not a Night Elf you needed Exalted with Darnassus to even being able to buy the Tiger Riding Skill. You could still work on your Wintersaber Trainer reputation while doing this, as you would only need the actual riding skill when you actually got the mount, and as you've seen and heard from this video, it took a very long time to get it. So after handing in runecloth to Darnassus (to exalted), learn the tiger riding skill and going exalted with Wintersaber Trainers, you could finally be able to ride this mount.
@@SporkyMcFly No. All Night Elves could use it instantly after getting to exalted with Wintersaber Trainer faction, while the other races would have to gain that reputation with Darnassus FIRST, to be able to ride the Wintersaber / Frostsaber mount. To avoid confusion. You were allowed to gain faction with the Wintersaber Trainer Faction without being exalted with Darnassus, but without proper tiger training, you wouldn't be able to use it.
@@laffi Which means that on top of an endless grind you had to grind additionally to get to exalted with Darnassus (unless Night Elf). That is a huge L for game design. I get that the mount is special, but it would not have been less special to not require a Darnassus rep. That was my point.
2:05 so this is not the case anymore.. on the 11.0.5 ptr for the 20th anniversary event theres a vendor that sells classic rep tokens for 50 timewarped badges and the wintersaber rep is one of them meaning you can buy your way back to neutral and do the quest.
The Horde version of this quest is down in Un'gora and they will want to farm Ability mount raptor [Ravasaur Hatchling] and do dailies for Ability mount raptor [Whistle of the Venomhide Ravasaur] in this zone. In addition, circling the border of Un'goro is an excellent way to farm Inv ore thorium 02 [Thorium Ore].
I remember grinding this on my Hunter. Not only did I end up getting the mount, I also had the Skullflame Shield drop (among a number of other greens/blues).
I remember a vanilla hunter friend doing this grind. He was constantly in winterspring for like 6 months. Insane grind, and always someone competing for spawns
I had this mount in Burning Crusade. I farmed every single day the same quests. It took me around one or two month to obtain it. No days missed. It was horrendously long, i didn't think i could make it but i did...
When I leveled in classic, most players stopped questing at Lv. 10 when they could start getting boosted ^^' Of course those dont hit 60 with 550 quests completed!
Thank you for this video :) I remember getting this mount with my dad, back in probably TBC or WOTLK. I loved the quests.. probably because I was like 7 and just saw a cute kitten. :D
I was thinking of actually getting an alliance toon to 50ish in Turtle WoW and trying for this mount. Nope! Thanks for keeping me from wasting my time!
It's 840 turn-in. If you want it, do it slow and steady, for example 10 quests per day. That's about 3 months. Or 5 quests a day for 6 months. If you are human, then it's 10% less of course, but then anything not NE musst also be exalted with Darnassus for tiger riding too.
@@violetlight1548 Exalted Darnassus is easier. Just do all their quests in turn in runecloth for the rest of the rep. I would not worry about that part...
Horde did get a faction equivalent mount when they when they redid the quests in Cataclysm. They got a similar quest line for a raptor mount in Un'goro Crater. I either got the wintersaber during BC or Wrath, I went to check on my character to check, and the achievement said 12/10/11, which is during Cataclysm, but on my Horde Character it says I go the raptor 12/10/11. I switched side so many time during that era.
I remember grinding reputation with the Frostsaber in Vanilla. It took me such a long time and because mounts were not account wide, I actually did the grind with my alts. My main was was a leatherworker and I made some decent scratch selling rugged leather armour kits with all the leather I would farm whilst did the grind.
Holy shit! I barely kept my sanity grinding that mount on my main. I don't believe I would've managed on my alts. Also skinning/leather worker on my main so, that part didn't suck.
my only goal in HC classic is to get this mount before dying to a DC 😭 can see the mount model in Darnassus as well, behind the tree of the Druid trainer. cool lil foreshadowing of what could be your mount!
Would you be interested in exploring the story of how Blood Elves were initially intended for Alliance? I'm aware of the High Elves and them being friendly with Alliance but are there any other clues?
@@mk_gamíng0609 Horde races are plenty sexy! Other people are just uncreative. I like how Turtle WoW gave high elves to the Alliance and we Hordies got Goblins in vanilla
Something thought surprised have tried in retail at last part rouge order hall quest line kill fake Mathias Shaw but makes hostile players and guards in stormwind. Kinda surprised not been raid like 80 120 rouges seeing attack king assuming can here kill stormwind faction leader as alliance rouges trying do it
The smart players use a warlock at quest obtain/turn in spot and the quest areas to just summon back and forth. Probably worth lvling some lock alts for this or hiring guildies for afk goldmaking- lock alts op anyway to fast travel anyway anywhere after too!
As someone who got the mount in BC times and then later lost my account email access during hiatus, one of the first missions on my new account was to get this mount. Second was the netherwing drake. In hindsight when i came back in Legion it WAS way easier, but i never questioned it.
I do actually have a very vague memory of way back in the day (maybe BC era???? hard to say...) when somebody I was talking to showed me one of their alts who they claimed to have gotten hated w/ alliance, I didn't believe them so I of course implored them to show it to me. And when I did see it, I just assumed he was cheating/hacking lol
When I first hit 60 in 2005 I grinded this mount every day. I made one of my friends help me do at least 10 quests every day before I would go with him to UBRS, or Dire Maul - spending most of the weekday afternoons that summer in Winterspring. I was the second person to get it on the server and I became good friends with the guy who was the first as he and I encountered each other routinely and would go down to do the giant quest. All that said, the biggest regret I had was my GM offered me a free epic mount before I got it - I could have gotten the Ancient Frostsaber which as of when I stopped playing WoW, was the only mount I wanted that I never got. The Frostsaber was also no longer my biggest mount achievement as when I finally got Al'ar, I remember being so happy. I didn't even use the Frostsaber at the end - I had replaced him with the original ZA bear.
I feel like the Forsaken and blood elves should have been a third faction. Maybe they could have given the Horde ogres. Night elves being in the alliance has always been weird too if it wasn't for orcs invading Ashenvale.
No he isn't. High Elves WERE going to Alliance, but Blood Elves were added to Horde for faction balancing, and Draenei subsequently ret conned. This is a fact.
Turbotarzan actually made a video about that, the video is titled "World of Warcraft's Canceled Faction". Blood elves were originally part of the Silvermoon Remnants faction and were friendly to the Alliance, but that faction only lasted like a week before Blizzard removed it.
![The Story Behind Call of the Scarab [Lore]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/eE0t6GyObt4/mqdefault.jpg)
Always liked that idea that players could have the freedom to leave their chosen faction, wouldn’t really help gameplay wise, but having a group of players being a neutral faction seems more fluffy and gets at that RPG feel
Yeah this is what I wanted to see from cross faction play, maybe a few quests to assassinate high value targets in the opposing faction to earn the trust of that faction. That is in the event of leaving a faction and joining another.
Seems like common sense to allow these kinds of choices at this point since they already threw the faction war in the trash made the game World of Peace craft
@@spindoggytheexplorer2915haha yea imagine if they would make it possible to join another faction through an extreme long grind
Remember, the quests in WoW are often faction locked. So this wouldn't work.
Old-school EverQuest was alot like this. They went deep into factions and reputation.Your race, class and even religion all played a role in which cities and factions were hostile to you and there were hundreds of different factions. You could usually find ways to grind rep to become friendly to enter the city, or interact with merchants, quests, trainers etc... OR you could just roll an enchanter, which can use illusion magic to disguise as other races, which automatically changes your reputation to what it would be by for that race, or cast other spells like "benevolence" on an NPC which gives a temporary faction increase, which allowed evil races to enter good cities and vice versa without any rep grinding whatsoever.
look for player DoubleAgent.
It is a common misconception that high elves became blood elves when they joined the horde in tbc. They became blood elves all the way back in the wc3 tft, long before wow was even released. Some of them remained high elves though, which are the ones that are alliance friendly.
Had no idea it was a misconception in the first place, but i grew up playing warcraft 1, 2 and 3
Blood elves have a massive magic addiction. High elves do not. Blood elves have a magic addiction because of how plentiful and how much they use it.
Blood elves also drank from the corrupted sunwell which caused changes to them.
High elves are just evolved Kaldorei who left after The Sundering when using The Well's powers were stopped. Illidan gave them a bottle of water from the OG well which they used to create the Sunwell and continued to live with it's energies. But the Sunwell wasn't as powerful as The Well of Eternity so they got shorter and pale, now calling themselves High elves and later Blood elves after humans used them as cannon fodder and slaves against The Scourge and they left The Alliance.
@@dartimes6048 Actually High elves are the same as Blood elves, they changed their name after leaving Alliance. High elves evolved from Kaldorei when they left the rest, who now are called Night elves, to continue using Well of Eternity's powers by creating The Sunwell... I don't know where you get that shit but I literally grew up with Warcraft series and later WoW, plus I'm a lore nerd and Blood elves are my favorite faction in the game, so sorry but nope
One other thing that made the Wintersaber unique was that it traveled at epic riding speed without requiring epic riding. I never got the mount until Cataclysm. I remember flying out from Theramore over 20 days on my mage to get it.
I farmed this during vanilla 2019. Was on revered when I gave up in original classic 2005. Bruuutal grind.
Only eclipsed by the grind for "The Insane" title
Fun fact, the Horde did eventually get their equivalent, but it took 5 years until patch 3.2.0, when they finally got the Venomhide Ravasaur.
And i found out that if you get the saber, you unlock and receive the Ravasaur automatically on you Horde toon. Imagine my surprise when I made my 1st ever Hordie and noticed a raptor mount that WASNT from the MOP Isle of Giants' bones grind I did during Remix! So im assuming if you do it the other way around, even if you're hated with the wintersaber clan, you can still get the saber mount :o
The fact that it had no armor was precisely what motivated me. Ground it out just before Burning Crusade. Still my favorite mount.
Exactly that! Same here
Your writing has evolved so much. The documentary style works super well
I wish they’d bring back the negative rep aspect. Such a forgotten tool
Agreed, i get that balancing it can be complicated, but it really gives that rpg feel
Another great video well done, great info
Thank you, happy to see people find these things as interesting as i do
I think it would be rad if they looked at this old bug for inspiration to add a turncoat system to let people play their chosen race on the opposite faction, and making it so the moment you hit neutral with the enemy faction’s city, your character is officially now part of the other faction
I got this back in Vanilla when I saw another gnome with it. It took a very long time before this was more common among people, but I am pretty sure I was one of the first gnomes to get the Wintersaber / Frostsaber mount on my server. Even my first alliance alt was named Runeclothlaf, because I used her to store all the runecloth I needed to get exalted with Darnassus.
Basically:
If you were not a Night Elf you needed Exalted with Darnassus to even being able to buy the Tiger Riding Skill. You could still work on your Wintersaber Trainer reputation while doing this, as you would only need the actual riding skill when you actually got the mount, and as you've seen and heard from this video, it took a very long time to get it.
So after handing in runecloth to Darnassus (to exalted), learn the tiger riding skill and going exalted with Wintersaber Trainers, you could finally be able to ride this mount.
Did you need Tiger riding for this specific mount? Common L from Vanilla.
@@SporkyMcFly No. All Night Elves could use it instantly after getting to exalted with Wintersaber Trainer faction, while the other races would have to gain that reputation with Darnassus FIRST, to be able to ride the Wintersaber / Frostsaber mount.
To avoid confusion. You were allowed to gain faction with the Wintersaber Trainer Faction without being exalted with Darnassus, but without proper tiger training, you wouldn't be able to use it.
@@laffi Which means that on top of an endless grind you had to grind additionally to get to exalted with Darnassus (unless Night Elf). That is a huge L for game design.
I get that the mount is special, but it would not have been less special to not require a Darnassus rep. That was my point.
@@SporkyMcFly If you were not a night elf you didn't get to ride tigers, unless you've earned it. That's just how it is.
@@laffi Spending the time to grind that reputation means you have earned it, if you ask me. No matter, I was never going to do that grind anyhow.
2:21
The fact that Cataclysm is 13 years old just made me turn to dust.
2:05 so this is not the case anymore.. on the 11.0.5 ptr for the 20th anniversary event theres a vendor that sells classic rep tokens for 50 timewarped badges and the wintersaber rep is one of them meaning you can buy your way back to neutral and do the quest.
Ah, Winterspring and the Frostsaber. So many fond memories.
One of my favorite mounts next to Black Onyx. Great video
Jesus this was something locked deep in my memory, that tunnel running into Winterspring was fun
The Horde version of this quest is down in Un'gora and they will want to farm Ability mount raptor [Ravasaur Hatchling] and do dailies for Ability mount raptor [Whistle of the Venomhide Ravasaur] in this zone. In addition, circling the border of Un'goro is an excellent way to farm Inv ore thorium 02 [Thorium Ore].
I remember grinding this on my Hunter. Not only did I end up getting the mount, I also had the Skullflame Shield drop (among a number of other greens/blues).
Wanted this mount so bad for the longest, finally got it many years ago now
i love watching your videos! I learn so much about wow
Glad you like them, there will be more :)
I really enjoy your content. :)
Happy to hear that :)
I remember a vanilla hunter friend doing this grind. He was constantly in winterspring for like 6 months. Insane grind, and always someone competing for spawns
I had this mount in Burning Crusade. I farmed every single day the same quests. It took me around one or two month to obtain it. No days missed. It was horrendously long, i didn't think i could make it but i did...
I did the rep grind during Wrath; it took forever. I was more than a little perturbed when the mount became a daily quest...
Getting hated with booty bay was an acihvement back in the day! Thats pirate hat!
Most players haven't done 550 quests before 60
Me sitting here at level 51 with 1050 quests done
When I leveled in classic, most players stopped questing at Lv. 10 when they could start getting boosted ^^' Of course those dont hit 60 with 550 quests completed!
Did this grind during classic on a high pop PvP server that was Horde dominated. Worst experience of my life.
Thank you for this video :) I remember getting this mount with my dad, back in probably TBC or WOTLK. I loved the quests.. probably because I was like 7 and just saw a cute kitten. :D
I'm not sure why but your content really reminds me of Hayven Games
The counterpart to the wintersaber was the un´goro crater raptor. This was horde only at that time. At least as far as i remember.
840 turn-ins. Yikes. If you started doing that when Classic released, would you even have been done by the time Burning Crusade came out?
That's be 280 days, so yeah.
I was one of the few OG people to get a winterspring frostsaber before BC launched. What a grind.
I can imagine, made it to friendly, not even 10% of the way to exalted before i gave up, seemed endless... although the mount looks great, gratz :)
Great video !
I was thinking of actually getting an alliance toon to 50ish in Turtle WoW and trying for this mount. Nope! Thanks for keeping me from wasting my time!
It's 840 turn-in. If you want it, do it slow and steady, for example 10 quests per day. That's about 3 months. Or 5 quests a day for 6 months. If you are human, then it's 10% less of course, but then anything not NE musst also be exalted with Darnassus for tiger riding too.
@@annekekramer3835 seriously? You need exalted too? That's so dumb, especially in Vanilla. It's not like mounts are that easy to get to begin with!
@@violetlight1548 Exalted Darnassus is easier. Just do all their quests in turn in runecloth for the rest of the rep. I would not worry about that part...
Oh, wait, that's in vanilla. I don't think that's the case on Turtle.
You'll be grinding mobs for the quests anyway, so +800 turn ins is just extra while you grind xp
I like the idea of player ran factions independent from Horde or Alliance. Similar to what happens in EVE Online, but fantasy world.
Horde did get a faction equivalent mount when they when they redid the quests in Cataclysm. They got a similar quest line for a raptor mount in Un'goro Crater. I either got the wintersaber during BC or Wrath, I went to check on my character to check, and the achievement said 12/10/11, which is during Cataclysm, but on my Horde Character it says I go the raptor 12/10/11. I switched side so many time during that era.
They unlock simultaneously if you do either quest. Maybe that messed with the obtain dates
Raptor was Wrath I believe. I had the mount, but quit before cata launched.
I remember grinding reputation with the Frostsaber in Vanilla. It took me such a long time and because mounts were not account wide, I actually did the grind with my alts. My main was was a leatherworker and I made some decent scratch selling rugged leather armour kits with all the leather I would farm whilst did the grind.
Holy shit! I barely kept my sanity grinding that mount on my main. I don't believe I would've managed on my alts. Also skinning/leather worker on my main so, that part didn't suck.
my only goal in HC classic is to get this mount before dying to a DC 😭
can see the mount model in Darnassus as well, behind the tree of the Druid trainer. cool lil foreshadowing of what could be your mount!
I did this during TBC - great times.
I have this mount on classic and it’s the one grind that felt like an achievement in classic. Who cares about my 100 parse that mount is my treasure
Wait, wasn't the horde equivalent the Venomhide Ravasaur?
It didnt exist back then, but was eventually added in the Wrath of the Lich King expansion
Would you be interested in exploring the story of how Blood Elves were initially intended for Alliance? I'm aware of the High Elves and them being friendly with Alliance but are there any other clues?
their whole story is in WC3
@@tank29898yeah but the story in wc3 makes them not want to join the alliance
The story is that
Horde players were complaining that all the sexy races were alliance
So they gave them to the horde
@@mk_gamíng0609 Horde races are plenty sexy! Other people are just uncreative. I like how Turtle WoW gave high elves to the Alliance and we Hordies got Goblins in vanilla
@@violetlight1548goblins choosing a side makes no sense
Something thought surprised have tried in retail at last part rouge order hall quest line kill fake Mathias Shaw but makes hostile players and guards in stormwind. Kinda surprised not been raid like 80 120 rouges seeing attack king assuming can here kill stormwind faction leader as alliance rouges trying do it
I know so much about Vanilla but never this, always something!
I remember doing this back in the day...
I was the only person in my guild back in original Vanilla to bother grinding this 😊
Is the enemy of my enemy my friend? If you become hated by your own faction, you should automatically get “neutral” with the opposing faction.
i did this in bc era. pre flight. lots of furbolgs died.
Nice🎉
Cool!
"From place to place" dansker found
More interesting story than the vanilla Ravasaur trainers had
My father had this mount back in vanilla... no wonder he didn't save his marriage, he was grinding 😭
At least he was grinding this and not other women :p
The smart players use a warlock at quest obtain/turn in spot and the quest areas to just summon back and forth. Probably worth lvling some lock alts for this or hiring guildies for afk goldmaking- lock alts op anyway to fast travel anyway anywhere after too!
It was the most ANNOYN GRIND IN THE F WORLD!
As someone who got the mount in BC times and then later lost my account email access during hiatus, one of the first missions on my new account was to get this mount. Second was the netherwing drake.
In hindsight when i came back in Legion it WAS way easier, but i never questioned it.
I do actually have a very vague memory of way back in the day (maybe BC era???? hard to say...) when somebody I was talking to showed me one of their alts who they claimed to have gotten hated w/ alliance, I didn't believe them so I of course implored them to show it to me. And when I did see it, I just assumed he was cheating/hacking lol
Nice
Elsker din danske accent :D
When I first hit 60 in 2005 I grinded this mount every day. I made one of my friends help me do at least 10 quests every day before I would go with him to UBRS, or Dire Maul - spending most of the weekday afternoons that summer in Winterspring. I was the second person to get it on the server and I became good friends with the guy who was the first as he and I encountered each other routinely and would go down to do the giant quest.
All that said, the biggest regret I had was my GM offered me a free epic mount before I got it - I could have gotten the Ancient Frostsaber which as of when I stopped playing WoW, was the only mount I wanted that I never got. The Frostsaber was also no longer my biggest mount achievement as when I finally got Al'ar, I remember being so happy. I didn't even use the Frostsaber at the end - I had replaced him with the original ZA bear.
Why did the GM offer that?
i did this before the dark portal happen
i still think that blood elves should have been in the alliance
I feel like the Forsaken and blood elves should have been a third faction. Maybe they could have given the Horde ogres. Night elves being in the alliance has always been weird too if it wasn't for orcs invading Ashenvale.
Fruit stripe frost saber....
I did this in vanilla 😅
So something unique and fun was taken away. Typical Blizzard.
5:08 complete bollocks. You are making this up.
No he isn't. High Elves WERE going to Alliance, but Blood Elves were added to Horde for faction balancing, and Draenei subsequently ret conned. This is a fact.
Horde weenies complaining again.
Turbotarzan actually made a video about that, the video is titled "World of Warcraft's Canceled Faction".
Blood elves were originally part of the Silvermoon Remnants faction and were friendly to the Alliance, but that faction only lasted like a week before Blizzard removed it.
I did this on vanilla crazy