Thanks for the review. I bought the SU-6 last year, and I liked it a lot until it stopped working (distortion / cracking osundcoming up after two hours of playing, and blinking display while in coax mode). Returned to seller, but he couldn't find anything, even though he kept it for almost a month. He sent it back and the issue was still there. I now emailed SMSL, fingers crossed. If nothing comes out of it, I will spend some more money on a DAC streamer next time.
Those 5v do not mean the input signal voltage. That's the output signal from the headphone amplifier. In ASR, Amir usually uses a Unity Gain, which means the output voltage equals the input voltage(you use the knob to adjust the output voltage). In this example it is not clear which DAC SMSL used to feed the amp, but for a SE DAC this value is usually around 2v (4v for Balanced DACs). This mean that the headphone Gain was 2.5. This measurement/test is in fact harder that using Unity Gain, because the amplifier is actually "amplifying" the signal to 5v instead of the usual 2v. With all said, I'm not saying that manufacturers do to inflate their rating, as you said power amplifiers showing power at 10% THD is ridiculous.
I don't get why transmitting bluetooth is never a feature, maybe they think no one in the hobby owns bluetooth headphones. That might have been true 10 years ago...
Good question. The main reason probably is that even the cheapest bluetooth dongle is capable of transmitting the normal Bluetooth audio codecs (which are generally low quality). The higher res LDAC bluetooth codec requires that the headphone have LDAC playback support and are usually significantly more expensive than the non-LDAC bluetooth headphones. The way I think of it is most people who require LDAC will already have a phone capable of transmitting LDAC over bluetooth, and use the DAC as a receiver connected to speakers. It would be simpler if most PC external DACs also had LDAC transmitting capabilities as well, but maybe the logic is that if someone is willing to spend a lot on LDAC capable headphones (they are usually much more expensive than the non-LDAC versions), such people wouldn't mind spending on a dedicated bluetooth LDAC transmitter as well (which are I believe, aren't that expensive ) The normal bluetooth codecs can very easily be transmitted by extremely cheap bluetooth dongles and work well with normal bluetooth (non-LDAC) headphones. The quality of audio though Bluetooth (unless it's LDAC) leaves a lot to be desired anyway. And audiophiles would rather pair their expensive DACs to expensive Headphone amplifiers and connect them to wired high-end professional headphones. In a nutshell, what I'm saying is those who want bluetooth audio over headphones will usually be using non-LDAC headphones which can be served by a cheap bluetooth dongle, and those willing to spend a lot of money on an LDAC headphone would opt for a dedicated LDAC transmitter and those who actually want the very best quality-wise would opt for wired headphones anyway.
@@TemporaryTemporary-y2j Anker has LDAC on their headphones, they are just over 100 bucks and compete with flagship offerings for sound quality and build.
Thank you for the review, I've been looking at getting a dac / amp for a few weeks now. Am building a set of overnight sensations speakers and intend to get a HD 560S headphone down the road. Don't have a clue what sound signature I need. Been going through so many channels from audiophiles, who from my perspective put down great reviews. This stack is interesting to me since, based on your review, it will do what I need. I like the controls on the front of the amp to switch input too and I definitely want the expandability given by the various input options on the dac. There always seems to be something better. Was looking at the topping dx3pro +, that would do better for the budget and basically the same but it appears there are quite a lot of people with bugs and QC issues. Think I've landed on what will suit me. Expandability down the road and nice and simple to use. (Am aware I will need an amp for the speakers, Aiyima a07 is the chosen one.)
I just used the cheapest one I could find on Amazon. SMSL made a very stupid decision using that cable with the external ground. You can’t find a replacement anywhere.
I like your no nonsense approach to reviews - dispense with the advertising hogwash and audiophile jargon and tell it like it is. I have the SMSL SU-8 Version 2 with 2 x ESS 9038Q2M chips in a balanced configuration. It performs superbly and is a huge sonic improvement over the old S/Bit chip in the Marantz CD - yes I still spin those little silver discs. What bugs me about SMSL and also Topping to some extent, is that they churn out new models with little or no real sonic improvement whatsoever - most times it is just a viisual change in looks and not much else. Beats me why anyone would release 3 or 4 DAC models having the exact same chip with a minor variation in the power suppl;y, that has no discernable sonic benefit - to my ears anyway.
Always Love your honest and in depth reviews. I’m not and don’t want to be an “audiophile,” but I’m slightly interested in seeing what’s around every so often. The names of these make me think “sucks” and “shucks”. SU 6 and SH 6. Lol
I feel you on that "audiophile" thing lol. That term has long since left a bitter taste in my mouth. While it's a broad hobby and I'm sure most people in that community are pretty good folk, personally I'll just stick to calling myself an "audio gear fan/enthusiast"
how do u compare it su6 vs sU9 in terms of big sound and punch? ....I had SU9 and Im afraid that if I downgrade to SU6 (because I dont need XLRs nor MQA) WILL sound flat in comparison.
@@NoThemeReviews I am looking to build a desktop set up with Sundara phones, and really want a front panel switch to bounce between the headphones and speakers. The two amps that I have found that I think might fit (without spending too much money) is the SH-6 and Topping L30. Do you see any significant advantage of one of these amps over the other for my use case?
I can’t imagine what you’d find good to listen with, but there are many options to look into: Sivga Robin, 1More Triple Driver, HD569, Meze 99 Classics, ATH-MSR7b, M1060C. These are all good products to research.
That’s not the “correct” procedure, just the procedure YOU want to use. Using a test tone is no different from listening to any audio. You’re still estimating a match irrespective of what sound is being played.
@@kyron42 In your imaginary world. You’ve made a number of wrong comments around here. You believe a certain thing, can’t back it up with data, and just keep repeating yourself like that’ll prove the point. If you want to listen to a 1khz tone, go right ahead. It ain’t the only method nor the “correct” one. You just seem to double down on crap just because you believe it.
How is that not the correct way? If he can measure true rms and adjust until the output is the same? The only problem is the switchbox ads more contact resistance and that could put a low output resistance amp in a worse position than a higher one.
Well, that’s the CLAIMED voltage. If you look at ASR measurements, you’ll notice that the voltage he measured is typically different from what the company claims.
Well, there IS a difference in his measurements. Also, there will be variances among each individual Dac. For example, when companies post channel balance measurements it’s not the same when reviewed by a third party. Variances occur among different units. All I can tell you is that my hypothesis about voltage is the only reasonable explanation I could think of after trying the other options. And, after adjusting the volume so that they actually matched, there was literally no difference. If there’s another reasonable explanation, I’m open to it.
The dealers send me gear. So, in this instance, it came directly from Shenzhen Audio. Unfortunately, they don't have any control over what Topping and SMSL provide in terms of marketing info. I've repeatedly looked through the various dealer pages for Topping/SMSL products, and they all have exactly the same photos, measurements, and graphs--which come directly from the SMSL/Topping websites. I can't understand why these two companies won't give us clear measurement info.
I would not recommend SMSL SU-6 to anyone, mine got horrible cracking/clipping sound after just 6 months of use. it is a shit product design not to last.
That’s not true at all. Voltage does affect the power of an amp. If the MAXIMUM power of the SH6 is 2.6w through a 5V source, then any source under that voltage would provide less than the maximum power output for the amp. And that’s what ASR has repeatedly shown. He’s measured using 2v on an amp and measured half the power because the company used in their marketing 4v input. This has happened repeatedly with Topping and SMSL
That’s an odd statement. Check any amp specs where there are measurements for both SE and balanced. Vastly different power, which is due to the different voltages. SE RCA is typically 2v and XLR is typically 4v. The D90se will let you select different voltage, which does affect the amp output. Where did you read or hear otherwise?
@@jimgordon8376 To produce 2.6 watts into 16 ohms requires a voltage of around 6.45. The sh6 provides 15.5 dB gain on high gain. This means that it only requires 1.08 input volts. Therefore the two volt input from the DAC is plenty. What sort of electrical engineering training do you have?
The only guy on YT review who actually does comparisons and doesn’t buy into audiophile bullshit. Amazing how EVERY amp or Dac sounds so much better than the last, even though the recording hasn’t changed. Funny how people claim to hear more dynamics all of a sudden.
Cables make 0% difference. You’re nitpicking over absolutely nothing. It’s again this nonsensical commentary that is unsubstantiated. Are you seriously telling people that we are all getting different experiences because we’re all using different cables? What’s your scientific proof of that?
@@epicmike3915 I don’t know what his deal is. He a weird statement that voltage doesn’t affect power output, which is patently wrong. He’s claiming the only correct way to volume match is by listening to a test tone…as if music itself is t reliable enough for that…even though that’s the whole reason to get any of this stuff. I’ve read a bunch of his comments on videos. He’s just out of left field. He really can’t help himself and needs to constantly express his beliefs and I don’t think I’ve ever seen him provide evidence of some of his wilder claims.
the 5v from the dac is the signal voltage the modulates the watts FROM the SH6 power supply. the voltage modulation from the DAC IS JUST THE SIGNAL that the amplifier tries to emulate through the transistors. it is not augmented or reduced. thats why transistors and tubes are analogous to VALVES. obviously you have no basic understanding of these electronics.
Uh-huh. And that’s why SMSL’s numbers are always higher than any other third party measurements that use 2/4v input. Thanks for brush up on your basics.
@@NoThemeReviews lol when you build your own amps that's actually a good thing. You sound disingenuous in your video about the specs. But I would rather chuck it off as confidently ignorant since I don't know you personally. Or maybe it's your way of getting attention.
Very interesting. It’s sometimes a treat to read other people’s beliefs. I personally believe that an increase in current/voltage will increase power-which seems contrary to whatever you think. Cool; you’re dead wrong, but this hobby brings out your kind of “specialists”. Enjoy the world you created for yourself 🥹 BTW, if there’s anything disingenuous about the specs it’s that they come from a company that has a history of being dishonest about them. So, take your righteous indignation to them, and don’t be a troll.
lol you really dont get it. probably i dont communicate well. but then again. i wont wrestle with pigs anymore. Id get dirty and pigs like mud anyway.@@NoThemeReviews
![GEEK TIMË [OFFICIAL AUDIO]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/ry-6RvkH880/mqdefault.jpg)
Thanks for the review. I bought the SU-6 last year, and I liked it a lot until it stopped working (distortion / cracking osundcoming up after two hours of playing, and blinking display while in coax mode). Returned to seller, but he couldn't find anything, even though he kept it for almost a month. He sent it back and the issue was still there. I now emailed SMSL, fingers crossed. If nothing comes out of it, I will spend some more money on a DAC streamer next time.
Those 5v do not mean the input signal voltage. That's the output signal from the headphone amplifier. In ASR, Amir usually uses a Unity Gain, which means the output voltage equals the input voltage(you use the knob to adjust the output voltage). In this example it is not clear which DAC SMSL used to feed the amp, but for a SE DAC this value is usually around 2v (4v for Balanced DACs). This mean that the headphone Gain was 2.5. This measurement/test is in fact harder that using Unity Gain, because the amplifier is actually "amplifying" the signal to 5v instead of the usual 2v.
With all said, I'm not saying that manufacturers do to inflate their rating, as you said power amplifiers showing power at 10% THD is ridiculous.
What is the "correct power cable" for the SH-6. Mine is having issues with the ground and I have been getting a lot of static in my headphones.
I don't get why transmitting bluetooth is never a feature, maybe they think no one in the hobby owns bluetooth headphones. That might have been true 10 years ago...
Yes surprised he didn't mentioned that
Good question. The main reason probably is that even the cheapest bluetooth dongle is capable of transmitting the normal Bluetooth audio codecs (which are generally low quality). The higher res LDAC bluetooth codec requires that the headphone have LDAC playback support and are usually significantly more expensive than the non-LDAC bluetooth headphones.
The way I think of it is most people who require LDAC will already have a phone capable of transmitting LDAC over bluetooth, and use the DAC as a receiver connected to speakers.
It would be simpler if most PC external DACs also had LDAC transmitting capabilities as well, but maybe the logic is that if someone is willing to spend a lot on LDAC capable headphones (they are usually much more expensive than the non-LDAC versions), such people wouldn't mind spending on a dedicated bluetooth LDAC transmitter as well (which are I believe, aren't that expensive )
The normal bluetooth codecs can very easily be transmitted by extremely cheap bluetooth dongles and work well with normal bluetooth (non-LDAC) headphones.
The quality of audio though Bluetooth (unless it's LDAC) leaves a lot to be desired anyway.
And audiophiles would rather pair their expensive DACs to expensive Headphone amplifiers and connect them to wired high-end professional headphones.
In a nutshell, what I'm saying is those who want bluetooth audio over headphones will usually be using non-LDAC headphones which can be served by a cheap bluetooth dongle, and those willing to spend a lot of money on an LDAC headphone would opt for a dedicated LDAC transmitter and those who actually want the very best quality-wise would opt for wired headphones anyway.
@@TemporaryTemporary-y2j Anker has LDAC on their headphones, they are just over 100 bucks and compete with flagship offerings for sound quality and build.
Thank you for the review, I've been looking at getting a dac / amp for a few weeks now. Am building a set of overnight sensations speakers and intend to get a HD 560S headphone down the road. Don't have a clue what sound signature I need. Been going through so many channels from audiophiles, who from my perspective put down great reviews. This stack is interesting to me since, based on your review, it will do what I need. I like the controls on the front of the amp to switch input too and I definitely want the expandability given by the various input options on the dac. There always seems to be something better. Was looking at the topping dx3pro +, that would do better for the budget and basically the same but it appears there are quite a lot of people with bugs and QC issues. Think I've landed on what will suit me. Expandability down the road and nice and simple to use. (Am aware I will need an amp for the speakers, Aiyima a07 is the chosen one.)
Nicely Done.
Any chance the remote had an option to turn on/off the bluetooth connectivity ?
Thanks
As far as I can tell, you can only select inputs. I assume if BT is not selected it’s “off”.
My SH6 came with a UK plug too, what rating C7 cable should I use instead? I've tried several different ratings, but they don't seem to work.
I just used the cheapest one I could find on Amazon. SMSL made a very stupid decision using that cable with the external ground. You can’t find a replacement anywhere.
I like your no nonsense approach to reviews - dispense with the advertising hogwash and audiophile jargon and tell it like it is.
I have the SMSL SU-8 Version 2 with 2 x ESS 9038Q2M chips in a balanced configuration. It performs superbly and is a huge sonic improvement over the old S/Bit chip in the Marantz CD - yes I still spin those little silver discs.
What bugs me about SMSL and also Topping to some extent, is that they churn out new models with little or no real sonic improvement whatsoever - most times it is just a viisual change in looks and not much else. Beats me why anyone would release 3 or 4 DAC models having the exact same chip with a minor variation in the power suppl;y, that has no discernable sonic benefit - to my ears anyway.
Have you consider other brands ? Such as Chord Qutest ?
Nope. The SMSL SU-8 suits me fine right now.
Always Love your honest and in depth reviews. I’m not and don’t want to be an “audiophile,” but I’m slightly interested in seeing what’s around every so often. The names of these make me think “sucks” and “shucks”. SU 6 and SH 6. Lol
Some can’t handle the truth!
I feel you on that "audiophile" thing lol. That term has long since left a bitter taste in my mouth. While it's a broad hobby and I'm sure most people in that community are pretty good folk, personally I'll just stick to calling myself an "audio gear fan/enthusiast"
how do u compare it su6 vs sU9 in terms of big sound and punch? ....I had SU9 and Im afraid that if I downgrade to SU6 (because I dont need XLRs nor MQA) WILL sound flat in comparison.
does the SU-H6 have fixed or variable output? in other words does the volume knob change volume from the the RCA outputs?
No, it's variable.
Good Job! I like your reviews! TY!
This stack or iFi zen dac v2?
You'll get more for your money with the Zen Dac.
@@NoThemeReviews 👍👍👍
Did the SH-6 have enough power to drive the Sundara headphones optimally?
Yes
@@NoThemeReviews I am looking to build a desktop set up with Sundara phones, and really want a front panel switch to bounce between the headphones and speakers. The two amps that I have found that I think might fit (without spending too much money) is the SH-6 and Topping L30. Do you see any significant advantage of one of these amps over the other for my use case?
@@scottharper491 Nope, either would work fine
what closed back with detachable cable would you recommend for 300 usd can be less
What type of sound signature?
@@NoThemeReviews just to enjoy music
for fast instrumetal drums and guitars
@@NoThemeReviews bass, full mids good highs
I can’t imagine what you’d find good to listen with, but there are many options to look into: Sivga Robin, 1More Triple Driver, HD569, Meze 99 Classics, ATH-MSR7b, M1060C. These are all good products to research.
what DAC under $200 would you recommend?
SMSL Sanskrit or Fiio K5 Pro are both quite capable. Also look into the iFi Zen Dac.
@@NoThemeReviews thank you
The correct setup procedure is to run a test tone through each device, measure the outputs and adjust until the outputs are exactly the same.
That’s not the “correct” procedure, just the procedure YOU want to use. Using a test tone is no different from listening to any audio. You’re still estimating a match irrespective of what sound is being played.
@@jimgordon8376 absolute rubbish. Measuring a test tone is far more accurate than listening to music.
@@kyron42 In your imaginary world. You’ve made a number of wrong comments around here. You believe a certain thing, can’t back it up with data, and just keep repeating yourself like that’ll prove the point. If you want to listen to a 1khz tone, go right ahead. It ain’t the only method nor the “correct” one. You just seem to double down on crap just because you believe it.
@@jimgordon8376 I wish you would learn to read. To volume match you have to measure not listen.
How is that not the correct way? If he can measure true rms and adjust until the output is the same? The only problem is the switchbox ads more contact resistance and that could put a low output resistance amp in a worse position than a higher one.
I Ask how does it compare to sh9
Will this drive my hd6XX?
Yes
It's odd that the SU-6 was louder than the Sanskrit 10th mkII as the SKII is supposed to have 2.2v output vs the 2v on the SU-6.
Well, that’s the CLAIMED voltage. If you look at ASR measurements, you’ll notice that the voltage he measured is typically different from what the company claims.
@@NoThemeReviews The output voltage measurements from ASR on the Sanskrit and SU-6 appear to match the claimed voltage out from SMSL.
Well, there IS a difference in his measurements. Also, there will be variances among each individual Dac. For example, when companies post channel balance measurements it’s not the same when reviewed by a third party. Variances occur among different units. All I can tell you is that my hypothesis about voltage is the only reasonable explanation I could think of after trying the other options. And, after adjusting the volume so that they actually matched, there was literally no difference. If there’s another reasonable explanation, I’m open to it.
It is weird they are keep sending products for your review, but never tell us how they measure their products after you mentioned serveral times.
The dealers send me gear. So, in this instance, it came directly from Shenzhen Audio. Unfortunately, they don't have any control over what Topping and SMSL provide in terms of marketing info. I've repeatedly looked through the various dealer pages for Topping/SMSL products, and they all have exactly the same photos, measurements, and graphs--which come directly from the SMSL/Topping websites.
I can't understand why these two companies won't give us clear measurement info.
I would not recommend SMSL SU-6 to anyone, mine got horrible cracking/clipping sound after just 6 months of use. it is a shit product design not to last.
Agree and the display is a pain in the ass too - also gutless sound
Great review of a ok stack that I don't see putting a dent in Schiit or JDSLab's sells even with Zeos calling it a sub $300 flagship stack, smh.
The voltage of the DAC can't possibly affect the maximum power of the amp unless the amp runs out of gain.
That’s not true at all. Voltage does affect the power of an amp. If the MAXIMUM power of the SH6 is 2.6w through a 5V source, then any source under that voltage would provide less than the maximum power output for the amp. And that’s what ASR has repeatedly shown. He’s measured using 2v on an amp and measured half the power because the company used in their marketing 4v input. This has happened repeatedly with Topping and SMSL
Where exactly did you get this idea? What’s your source of information?
That’s an odd statement. Check any amp specs where there are measurements for both SE and balanced. Vastly different power, which is due to the different voltages. SE RCA is typically 2v and XLR is typically 4v. The D90se will let you select different voltage, which does affect the amp output. Where did you read or hear otherwise?
Hey guys, you all might want to review an article from JDS. We luckily have info about this. blog.jdslabs.com/2015/06/power-is-volume/
@@jimgordon8376 To produce 2.6 watts into 16 ohms requires a voltage of around 6.45.
The sh6 provides 15.5 dB gain on high gain. This means that it only requires 1.08 input volts. Therefore the two volt input from the DAC is plenty.
What sort of electrical engineering training do you have?
The only guy on YT review, who cannot hear the differences.
The only guy on YT review who actually does comparisons and doesn’t buy into audiophile bullshit. Amazing how EVERY amp or Dac sounds so much better than the last, even though the recording hasn’t changed. Funny how people claim to hear more dynamics all of a sudden.
@@NoThemeReviews But that zeos guy also do comparison, and he cant hear the difference.
I had a feeling the Magni and Modi were still ahead.
But what cables did you use. If you use different cables on different devices it's not a fair comparison.
Cables make 0% difference. You’re nitpicking over absolutely nothing. It’s again this nonsensical commentary that is unsubstantiated. Are you seriously telling people that we are all getting different experiences because we’re all using different cables? What’s your scientific proof of that?
I’d love to see your evidence that the cables affect the outcome. Unless you’re joking.
Ugh another one that thinks cables make a difference. He mentioned many times that he doesn't believe in cables affecting sound any way.
@@epicmike3915 I don’t know what his deal is. He a weird statement that voltage doesn’t affect power output, which is patently wrong. He’s claiming the only correct way to volume match is by listening to a test tone…as if music itself is t reliable enough for that…even though that’s the whole reason to get any of this stuff. I’ve read a bunch of his comments on videos. He’s just out of left field. He really can’t help himself and needs to constantly express his beliefs and I don’t think I’ve ever seen him provide evidence of some of his wilder claims.
@@hectorharris5650 Like many others I come across he believes in snake oil. Is best to just ignored these people from now on.
the 5v from the dac is the signal voltage the modulates the watts FROM the SH6 power supply. the voltage modulation from the DAC IS JUST THE SIGNAL that the amplifier tries to emulate through the transistors. it is not augmented or reduced. thats why transistors and tubes are analogous to VALVES. obviously you have no basic understanding of these electronics.
Uh-huh. And that’s why SMSL’s numbers are always higher than any other third party measurements that use 2/4v input. Thanks for brush up on your basics.
@@NoThemeReviews lol when you build your own amps that's actually a good thing. You sound disingenuous in your video about the specs. But I would rather chuck it off as confidently ignorant since I don't know you personally. Or maybe it's your way of getting attention.
Very interesting. It’s sometimes a treat to read other people’s beliefs. I personally believe that an increase in current/voltage will increase power-which seems contrary to whatever you think. Cool; you’re dead wrong, but this hobby brings out your kind of “specialists”. Enjoy the world you created for yourself 🥹 BTW, if there’s anything disingenuous about the specs it’s that they come from a company that has a history of being dishonest about them. So, take your righteous indignation to them, and don’t be a troll.
lol you really dont get it. probably i dont communicate well. but then again. i wont wrestle with pigs anymore. Id get dirty and pigs like mud anyway.@@NoThemeReviews