Squeezing More Power Out Of Our High-Performance 360 Mopar - Horsepower S13, E20
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- Опубликовано: 19 мар 2021
- HorsePower's budget Mopar motor is a done deal. Now, it's time to amp up the power in that same motor. Joe and Mike load it up with high performance parts to see how much Mopar muscle their small block engine has got.
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I like the showing of mistakes and failures. More realistic. Hard to compare when everything you guys show on tv is perfect the first time and when I do the same job it’s not quite the same result. Good job and as always great video.
The power of editing
340 with W2 heads and a hyd Hemi grind = 497 hp 515 Torque...sweetness
Mopar guy here thanks
Same here, thanks for the effort however I have some constructive criticism for future builds, up comprehension to 10.1 and use a mopar specific cam grind. If build a magnum you can always reuse the hydraulic roller lifters to keep budget in line
Why would anyone use special, 340 ONLY, open-chamber heads (for '68-71 positive deck pistons) on a negative deck, dished piston 360? Typical mismatch and a disservice to viewers! The camshaft was a good pick, but needs 10:1 with the aluminum heads, not 7.5:1!! These shows are crippling their non-Chevy builds.
Yea. Looked like the open chamber head. Poor pick.
I think the cam should have had more lift. Like .550.
And the Rpm air gap would have been a better choice too.
I was wondering that myself. I’m building a 360 from a ‘90 roller block. Went with Speedmaster 65cc aluminum heads and looked them over really close. KB flat tops with 5cc valve reliefs, and they sit .020” in the hole. Roller 1.5 rockers. Waiting on my Hughes 3034 roller cam to come in. All said it should be 10.3:1. Should make for a stout street engine!
Rodney Byrd. You make a good point.
A lot of the time in builds or comparisons they are flawed. See my comment above about thec360 I built using the same Edelbrock heads but withc10 to 1 flat top pistons
Out of curiosity I built a 350 4 bolt main Chev engine for my 65 FI chev Corvette. Edelbrock alum heads the 65 fuelie solid lifter cam to ensure correct vacuum signal for the FI unit. But close to the 360 Mopar in most respects. In fact I used a 6 inch rod in the Chev as opposed to the stock 5.7 rod.
Redults.... chev 420 hp 405 ft lbs of torque for theChev vs 414 hp and 441 ft lbs of torque for the Mopar.
All in all the only surprise was that the 360 kicked out about 10 percent more torque. I don't know why.
But in a comparison that every effort is made to keep things on an even footing without mismatches ir advantages I've never noticed much difference between medium sized Chevs I r Mopar.
The same can't be said for thec351 Winds I r engine in my opinion an under Performer. But a properly built 351 Cleveland would get you around 425 hp. It's a pity that engine was never fully developed before being canceled.
I think with development if a proper alum head and 10 to 1 compression running on pump gas it could have surpassed the 350 Chev orcthe 360 Mopar. Yhe basic head design was superior as shown by a comparison ofvthe Boss 302 vs the z28 fudlie head.
I agree. Those were the wrong heads. The stock heads probably would have done just as well, maybe better. If they had 8:1 compression, they were lucky.
All pre magnum small block heads are open chamber, 71 is the only year a 360 didn't have dished pistons and they are all .080 or so down the hole. The 360 was designed to move trucks and station wagons nothing more even the later HP versions were the same engine with the 340 cam and intake. Basically it's a dyno on a stock rebuilt pre magnum 360 and then with cam and heads swapped on.
The super low compression dished pistons used in this build crippled it. Even with a few grand in bolt on goodies, it still makes less power than a re-man 360 magnum with a cam would.
totally agree
410 HP can be made with a Magnum with the stock heads no problem. I don't see why these show continue to do LA builds.
@@451dskots88 8.6 compression ratio if those are only .090 down the hole that’s being generous. Usually closer to .120 down the hole
@@erikturner5073 what kind of mods are we talking? Stroker kit and cam?
@@LegendoftheFa11 don't need a stroker for the 360 Magnum to hit 400 HP. The LA 360 I'd leave that along. People are hitting 380- 400 HP with 318 Magnum. So the 360 Magnum is no prob.
I really enjoy your guys videos but you really need to get a Mopar guy in there during these episodes my assumption is the reason we never seen the dyno video of the other 360 with the trick flow setup was nobody paid attention to you using solid pushrods on a magnum since it wasn't an early block that still have the LA oil passages drilled you could see it in the video my guess is when you guys ran the motor you ended up having a massive valve train problem since you didn't get oil to them. I was also kind of stumped that you used retrofit lifters even though the Magnum block and that other video was already set up for factory hydraulic roller lifters. Keep up the good videos looking forward to some more.
Is this a Magnum engine? I thought it was an LA.
@@scottmichaels1764 The one in this video is an LA block.
With that low compression and that cam I am surprised it did as good as it did. NO COMPRESSION
Honestly not that impressed considering they put High dollar aluminum heads on it.. IMO they could of got close to that with stock heads.. Richard Holdener just got 350 hp out of a junk yard 360 with a 480 lift cam!
360's are 500 HP engines if done right.
At what cost?
@@Carlos.Rivera $5
@@Carlos.Rivera jk you can probably have an Na 500hp built for 5-6k
@@Aqua350Lt1 yeah that s a bit light in today's world. Maybe. 10 15 years ago. Mopar cost more to build at any given hp level than Chevs or Fords .
But they are good engines. Especially thec360 andc440s
Most engines are 500hp engines if done right....hell ive had a honda 1.6 make 500hp..
I'm a Ford guy, but the rod stroke ratio on the 360 is awesome. Remember when we used chrysler rods in the first stroker windsor's. Always thought noone was realizing the potential of these motors. That 6.2" rod is to die for!! Someone should build a real race top end for them!!! Wonder what the weight on one of these would be with aluminum heads and intake. Gotta rout for the underdog!!!
@Mark McCarty ...there's a few race top ends for the 360 sbm... Indy Cylinder Head makes a top end pkg that's 700hp capable... Edelbrock has the Victor race heads & intake, which might be good for 800h.p. (with no power adders).... Mopar Performance has quite a few setups... the W2, W5, W7, W8, W9 & W9rp (raised ports)...some guys are pushing those sbm with stroker kits & high compression making 1000 h.p. (all motor)
@@ghostrt1608 People forget that is ford guys were using 318 and 360 Mopar rods to build stroker Windsors. Know a few guys that did it. The rod stroke ratio on the 360 is bout perfect, limited choices on cylinder heads and brand preference is all that held them back!!
@@markmccarty727 ...the 383 & 400 bbm rod/stroke is even better at 1.88:1 (6.35" rod length/ 3.38" stroke)... 440, 426 Hemi, 225 Slant 6...all those Mopar engines had high rod/stroke ratios...wasn't just the LA-small block... all of 'em shared that one design aspect & that's why I would pick one of those engines over any small-block, except these Gen3 Hemi's... their rocker shaft design, their oil pump design, tall deck blocks, high nickel alloy cylinder block castings, it's just way too many things ppl are not considering with those small block Mopar engines...
@@ghostrt1608 I just like seeing you guys get out and run. I'm a Ford guy, drag raced small block Fords for 5 years. Started out just chicken feed and fun. Then it's stroker motors and Yates heads. Had just as much fun the the old cast piston Windsor with ported 289 heads. The guy that bought that motor says it still running!! Borrowed a set of rpm heads, only picked up a tenth, that 10hp!! Had to get out when it went from 93 octane to race gas and big time nitrous!! It ain't fun when it's starts getting into ur pocket!
@@markmccarty727 ...I'm going the turbo route...for my Hemi Ram
425 lb-ft torque is impressive. From 311 to 388 in HP ain't bad either with bolt on parts.
This one is a real head scratcher, I'm guessing the compression was in the 8.5 or less range.
Yep the early LA 360 was just under 9-1. They coulda used a thinner head gasket.. Or piston swap. Pretty sure on stock 360 the piston is .020 in the hole at TDC like a 318.
@@jayirving6996 And don't forget to check for Clarence.
Who is Clarence?
The factory Magnum engines had a bit over 9:1 compression.
Quite certain thats a Magnum block and lower end.
@@ShortArmStrongArm nope that's a la block
Just CC’d my ‘90 360 (factory roller cam LA) and measured everything out. Pistons were .110” in the hole. 308 heads were advertised at 65cc, however they measured out to 74-76cc. Comes out to about 7.8:1 when you run the math.
I wound up ordering aluminum heads since the 308’s were cracked, but I was planning on a thinner head gasket and mild port work. I converted it to carbureted previously, so no need to deal with attempting to tune/running a standalone engine controller with the TBI
the shot of the rocker arms coming out of the lube and flipped onto the head was beautiful!
As he was talking about the distributor all I could think about was the term, "sparkalators."
Same😂
Also the lightning whirrler
Why in the world did you use the 340 style heads with the huge uneffeicent chambers??? That's why it needed so much timing and didn't make any power. The compression was too low! Probably around 7:9-1 compression
Good video boys, would be great to see that mopar engine get some more compression for more power. Good work on the carb tech to. 👍🏻
I wanna see them take a 360 magnum truck engine, upgrade the internals and take advantage of the fuel injection, see the power difference.
You won't get much advantage with junky stock injection
@@michaellee5399 just the idea of it. Modern-ish tuning and decent injectors. Always see carb on the channel
@@michaellee5399 yeah would need to go with Holley fast, or ez efi. Planning a 410 efi build for my 95 dakota
Why use a 750cfm carb on a 360? A 650cfm is more than it needs.
I did a 2000 magnum build. Hughes cnc ported magnum r/t heads, hughes roller cam 234 dur. 574lift, m1 intake that works with carb or fuel injection (not throttlebody injection, thats just an electric carb).... Engine is in a 67 cuda, it rest on solid motor mounts and a hemi 4spd trans. It idles very smooth for as much cam as it has, timing is at 22 initial 35 total all in at 2700. Throttle response is very quick, pulls hard all the way to 7800. The magnum heads and roller cam is where its at! Im running a demon 650 carb now but ford mustang fuel injection is going to be used with a 4 hole throttle body soon.
Got a 1999 dodge Durango with the 5.9 v8 360 the best vehicle I've ever owned
check under your new Mopar Valve cover to make sure they have a Plate to keep oil from sloshing out . you can buy that plate anywhere
Anybody notice the metal shaving next to the cam bearing?
Notice the worn out Cam Bearing?
First 👍's up guys thanks again for taking us all along with you
1:40 mark, the Edelbrock Air Gap would have been a MUCH better choice.
air gap the only thing I use
That motor should be way over 400 hp with that much money spent
thats mopar for you those are probably $1500 heads while a random small block chevy alluminum heads can cost you low as $500 new
@ 14:46, The main fuel flow is out of the Booster Legs, not the Accelerator “Squirter”.
I remember when T.V. shows were way more interesting to watch like this show.
The original 360 crank is high nodularity cast iron.
It is NOT steel, however it has been used in blown alcohol applications in dragas at over 9000 rpm.
You guys need to do a back to back comparison with a older LA 360 and a newer Magnum 360 both with carburetors
Running Aluminum heads, effectively allows 1point in compression higher, due to the aluminum heat transfer verses the iron heads, so if you have 9.5 with cast iron heads, you can go up 1 point higher when switching to Aluminum..
My favorite Small Block V8 😎
You guys are great 👍
another real man's build, no more lame-ass ls or ford junk.
Before you start this call Hughes they will tell you what size cam to use as well as carb they are the best in this field. The head choice was very good but use studs for the rocker shaft when using alum heads.
Hahaha….love the toilet analogy regarding the carb section.
The EFI guys love to refer to these magnificent devices as “controlled fuel leak” or toilet bowl…lol
My god, what a production. Jesus, it’s like “Days of our Lives” lol
always good to spin the motor to get the oil pressure up properly...
Gruuuuunnnntttt :) Love V8 goodness.
Change those stock dish pistons and more compression.
I have a 1998 magnum 318 just wondering if those old 360 crank and cam would fit a newer model 318
Several hp from the 420hp edelbrock advertises with those heads and similar cam and intake. Probably some ring issues.
I know this was filmed a while ago. Don't put assembly lube on the sides of the lifters. It's sticky and can prevent them from spinning which is necessary during break-in.
Sorry but 360s came with a CAST CRANK. Not a forged steel crank. Like the 340.
When ford and Chevy guys build a mopar. 🤣 I like how they never told us the TQ Number
Got the same exhaust leak as my 360. Thought it was a lifter or rocker knock at first as well.
91 octane in Australia - that is lawn mower fuel = 95 - or 98 everyday = every turbo 98 . ? i pump it up with octane booster ! great video thank you .
Y'all need to put a parts list with links in the description
That break in was painful to watch 🥲
Do a test between Trick Flo aluminum heads and the Eldebrock. I think the Trick Flow will make more HP. You had a set on your stroker 360 some time ago. I don't remember a dyno test on that engine?
They did a full build recently on a 410 with those exact heads but no dyno yet unfortunately
@@fordmanx3 the TF heads are CNC ported....the Eddy come with stock port window.....the TF will win easy
what parts were used? I have a Dodge Ramcharger that I am going to rebuild 360 5.9L any suggestions?
Thx,
get intake ported and get a n back cut valve job and 1.6 rocker arms for torque
Trick Flow is the best. Power nation did this the best
Dont know why i watch chevy guys make a cheap shot at a mopar
Are the rotors on the blower in the intro engine going the wrong way ?!?!
I've seen other engine builders use to old cast heads and get almost 400 horsepower out of a 360 la engine whatever you guys did and only got 330 horsepower was still good because I've seen 340 engines running three deuces only top out at like 3:30 horsepower so good job
What they did is build a low compression engine with heads and a cam.
1hp per cubic inch, plus some.
Harland Sharp rockers are sweet. I messed with many Chevy V8's and all the bad of stud mounted rocker arms. On one 396, I galled two stamped, stock rocker balls and arms. My builder failed to set up the engine correctly at my garage. I also had to R&R the rear main seal. He installed it backwards.
Like a water hose of oil all over the ground.
I got took no doubt. Traded a complete running 350 with 78,000 miles plus 500 bucks. And had to fix his many shortcomings. He gave me a hotter cam. However he said I would have to have the forged domed TRW pistons fly cut for the valves. They were far too heavy for stock 3/8" rod bolts. It was a time bomb for spun bearings. The only redemming thing of a 396BBC is that it revs quick with the 3.76"
Stroke. 427, much better. 7/16" rod bolts.
And tall deck is the best old school Chevy made at the factory.
BTW, it was a long block. So I had to search all over for the bolt on ancillary stuff.
Bought a complely destroyed 396 from an SS for $50. Carb to flywheel. All brackets.
This was 1978 prices.
I have a 79 LA 360 bored 30 over with flat top pistons, comp cam hyd flat tappet with 231/237 and 525/525 110 sep, ultra pro rockers, air gap intake, Performer rpm heads, Holley 670, TTI, long tube step headers, combo has 9.25 to 1 comp. I got 419 hp @5800 and 452 lbs torque at 4400
HI THATS IMPRESSIVE WHAT WAS YOUR ROCKER RATIO AND WHAT BRAND PISTONS KEITHBLACK HYPERUETICTIC WHAT WAS THE LIFT @.050 WAS THE ROTATING ASSEMBLY BALANCED AFTER INSTALLING NEW PISTONS? WASTHE DECK HEIGHT MILLED AND TO WHAT THANKS SO MUCH FOR SHARING YOUR ENGINE BUILD AWESOME
Would like to see more fuel injected builds
Interesting. In the early 2000s I bought one of the 1st 10 sets of Edelbrock heads and built a 10 to one pump gas 360. Flat tappet hydraulic Comp cam 228 232 duration with 505 510 lift. Stock valve train except for springs and push rods Edelbrock Performer RPM intake Holley 3310 2 step long tube headers..
Dyno results were 414 hp and 442 ft lbs of torque. The torque number was quite surprising.
I suppose that may be due to the 6.123 rod length along with the compression. But I found it interesting becsuse 440 ft lbs is what I recall the Pontiac 389 the Mopar 383 and the Ford 390 made.
So with 30 less cubes the little LA 360 put out really good torque.
I note below that a guy claims the360 can be built to 500 hp.
I suppose a set of well massaged Indy cylinder heads a hotter roller cam than my flat tapoet hydraulic and a single plane Indy intake might get you there. But you couldn't run it with a 1800 to 2000 stall converter and an automatic as I can with my 414 hp 360.
I am considering installation of a hydraulic roller cam and a 6 pack. But that ll be more than I have in the engine as it sits. And I'd probably have to get some port work done on the heads at the same time.
I wonder if these changes woud get me another 40 hp?
And if it's worth doing?
I doubt the increase of 10 percent more hp would be that noticeable on the street.
Getting 500 hp for 5 or 6 thousand?
Not unless you own a machine shop and run a website where manufacturers give you stuff for mentioningvthdif name....
A 500 hp 360 that would live would be at least a 10 000 piece in my opinion.
Is it worth doing? Maybe. I say, if that's what you want, do it. I try different stuff all the time. Sometimes it works, sometimes it don't.
I read that 340 intake ports were challenged because of pushrod routing
@tom schweikert ... the 340 small block Mopar has a reputation for taking down big blocks at will, so evidently that wasn't a big issue... Chrysler made a set of W2 cast iron heads that actually gets the pushrod pinch out of the ports & fixes that issue.... those heads can flow like 330 cfm with a good port job & keep in mind those heads were made in the 70's... the new Gen3 Apache Hemi heads that come on the 392 flow the same numbers (330 cfm) in stock form w/o porting... so those W2's were definitely bad ass heads years ago when they were released... they are other ones too that Mopar Performance made that moved the pushrod out of the intake ports ... the W5, W7, W8,W9 & W9rp (raised ports)... Have anyone mentioned this to you before???
The intake should've been an edelbrock victor Jr. Port matched ect . Comp solid lifter with a split duration around 620 lift 290 duration Nothing worse then watching CHEVY GUY'S TRYING TO MAKE A MOPAR RUN . SCARY ....
Yap chevy guys working on a Mopar are a joke same thing when you are ordering parts they are clueless. Go to a Mopar guys when working on a Mopar you will save time and money
What kind of fuel pump are y’all running ?
Is aloominum like aluminium?
Been interesting if used a thumper carb... Don't think id touch the expensive rocker set up . 7.5 to 1 squish. = ? Textile tips..✌️
Now if you bump the compression ratio to about 11.5.1 with some efi or a 850 carb you might have something to talk about
What is a billet housing?
Why not a roller cam?
What was the lift on the cam? Anyone know?
Can you build a 99 fuel injected model
Damn , a 350 with vortec heads and correctly sized cam would of exceeded these numbers greatly and costed pennies.
Hey troll. They didn't use the pieces that us true mopar guy's would've used. Letting brand x shitve guy's build a Mopar is always a challenge. And you shitve is still a dime a dozen pos. Just like it always was .
@@bradhardy2629 no one cares
at what rpm? 360 and 440 have strong bottom end. Ain't always about HP
Good for you, and you said it best. Who cares. Everyone does 350’s. So truthfully no one cares. Good job bud.
Needs bigger carb. 870 to 950 vac sec with double step dog legs.
No windage tray??? With that crappy oil pan???
Do a build with hughes engines parts mopar
Especially their cams that are designed specifically for the larger diameter tappets, that allows for a much higher lift for any given duration and a quicker ramp up. Lots more torque without the lope.
@@GrantOakes I got my current build on ramcharger central, under vehicle help [ dashboard], I'm waiting on a few things to come in mail as far as rockers n floor pans then I'll go back thru my motor already have some of the parts
I noticed some of their engines they do build have knocks and leaks like that one ls hybrid sounded like the rockers were dry while driving. Not a good sound at all...
It was an exhaust leak, they fixed it.
PUT A 4.00"stroke crank and 10.5 to 1 pistons square the block ,& deck the block and run trick flow heads and a cam with good lift and duration and you will have a power house 400 to 500 horse easily
Richard Holdener. Made 10 less hp. With iron heads and a milder cam.
My Mom bought me my first Marine Band Harmonicky when I was 8. 8:56
67 horsepower increase with aluminum heads, cam, intake, and carb is really pathetic. At least $1,500 worth of performance parts and only 67 horsepower
This was like 9 years ago
More like $3000
Heads are $1000 each
Rockers are $800?
Stupid cup pushrods are spend too!
Thats why I use the RPM magnum heads then they use Chevy pushrods and rocker arms
Those heads flow 171cc intake and 77 cc ex.not what you said.
A stock mopar crate motor makes 380h.p. ---- not sure why this motor doesn't do better than it does
Probably cam they used is weaker than the mopar crate motor cam.
would love you to take on my project 1984 Dodge Ramcharger 350 5.9L with 71K miles
Can I put that in my ram 1500
does anyone know the exact parts they used in the rebuild i want to replicate it for my truck
for a truck, fix the low compression
How come you didn't degree the cam🤔
Probably because they didn't change the bottom end, they can just reference there prior numbers
@@edwardmyers1746 ok but the went with different timing chain and gears....just a thought
That cams #'s sounded weak. They didn't mention lobe separation. I bet it is like 112° or 110°. I think 106° or a 108° would have made better power throughout the rpm range of the dyno pull.
If the engine is already out of the chassis, fix the compression and the quench or it's just a waste of time.
For a street car;
I will NEVER bolt anything on to a stock compression ratio/no Quench 360, besides a hi-stall, a 4-speed auto, and some wicked street-gears; ok and maybe some cheap headers/4bbl; but those are optional in my book, and not needed if the first three are done.
I made it to 1:15
Is that 750 double pumper to much for that small block? Dont beat me up...I was told 650 is max, so thats what I have on my 360.
650s are for chebbys
17:25 Literally douching your radiator.
Keep cranking you tear you cam up
i need parts number!
It’s not hard to get 500 hp out of a 360 and can be done for 5K or a bit less if you do assembling and porting
Roller rockers were developed in the 1930’s on aircraft engines....
i need parts number
Single plane n trick flow heads would be better
so spend 1500-2000 on headers/cam/carb...to make only 63 hp ?? uuuummmmm....what ?
I agree.
Their sponsors need to donate better parts.
Way down on power
Nah, it's not touchy on timing , a Chevrolet is. The valves rattle on a chitalet badly if it's a touch off.
360's were all cast cranks....
the first build shave the head big time . advance a bigger cam 4 Deg .750 carb way cheaper it made my Duster run 11 s
Might as well super charge it
Your sponsor parts contributors should have stepped up with better thought out parts.
Guess you gotta just push the parts you get free.
Yah some basic failures here. Then again. The shows been off the air for ions.
Shoot... Way back in the 70s guys were getting 500 horse out of those 360s with the cast iron heads closed chamber not open like those junk aluminum ones you guys just wasted your money on plus look at those dinky little ports I could have outdid you guys with the bone stock parts from Dodge in a shootout