Hey Lee, here is a tip. When doing a carry out engine like this it helps to have a auto repair shop you can count on. We used to do diagnosis for a local machine shop when they had "problems" with a rebuild, it's funny, low oil pressure was a biggie, in fact in one case the vehicle had oil pressure at idle but lost it above 2000 rpm, so we suggested taking the pan down and having a look, the machine shop said ok and we took it down, there is no way you would guess what the problem was. The customer spray painted the INSIDE of the pan, the paint came off as a sheet of paper and got sucked onto the oil pickup screen, only when the rpms moved higher. So you never know what happens once the customer gets his grubby paws on it. Ask to see the vehicle with the engine installed before doing anything, then have a shop of YOUR choosing do a basic diagnosis of the problem. Sometimes people lie, not everyone, BUUUUUUUUT Blue Mule NC USA
Did you see the poor guy who bought a new oil pan for his Diesel engine. Same thing, paint from the factory in this case inside the pan just came off and clogged the pickup and he blew up the motor. Such a dumb thing to take out an engine.
@Jeff Leach people skimp on that stuff buy the easiest or cheapest one they can. Saving $ when you are not a professional mechanic is dangerous. Ppl just do not have knowledge to inspect things. The sad thing is ppl expect things for free or that its GOTTA be your fault you just worked on it...... heard that alot, had to calmly explain a completely unrelated issue.
I doubt the guy is lying. I'm pretty sure he's put two and two together and made five. He's put in another engine and fixed the issue, therefore the only possible issue is that the old engine is faulty. He has not taken into account a dozen other parts, sensors, connectors and incorrect workmanship or maintenance. If you contrast Lee's attitude, of not assuming anything, taking responsibility for a job out of warranty as a favour, checking carefully, having it double checked then triple checked and carefully and laboriously detailing all the measurements and keeping the customer informed.... .....to that of the customer, who without any proof, without any testing and without any reasonable suspicion is 100% certain there is an issue with the engine. Furthermore is willing to accuse and imply Lee as dishonest because of this misplaced certainty
about time, as this was really annoying me, if you buy a TV from Currys, and it goes wrong 1 day after the warranty ends, guess what, they dont give a f...
@@stevem7868-y4l You're right. I did buy a TV from Curry's, was told if it goes wrong just bring it in and we'll give you a replacement, what a load of BOLLOX. Motherboard went TIT'S up, had to wait for repair, Two weeks. Good job we had a TV in the house.
@@kwakgreen Great, they honored the warranty, they HAVE to. What about "steve" and his "out of warranty situation"? You're talking about an entirely different situation FFS.
Lee re low oil pressure golf. One strange thing I have encountered is a cracked oil pickup which allows the pump to suck some air. Just thought I would mention it as it can be hard to spot. The other one is to vacuum test the oil pressure relief valve to check that when its closed it seals. Just a couple of weird ones in case they help.
Golf guy has every right to be out of sorts, he complained about the low oil pressure well within the warranty. You advised him to do certain things which you acknowledged he had done, look you are the experts here sometimes you just have to suck it up. Why is it surprising that he has put another engine in the Golf? Why is it surprising that he wants the original engine fixed, I assume he paid X thousands to have this done. After running/owning a garage 25 plus years I would get some second hand ancilleries and run the engine up your self, I know it would cost time and money but it's probably the only way now, unless you want to leave it up the court. By the way I am a fan of your chancel and have been subscribed for probably 6 months now
I don’t think you can be any more open and transparent about the situation with this golf engine. The fact you’ve offered for him to get an independent engineer to come and check the engine to confirm everything is ok is the right thing to do, I don’t see why anyone wouldn’t be happy about it unless they’re worried that they are not going to find anything wrong. Any independent inspections I would want carried out at your shop so that you can be sure everything is checked and you can see that’s been done properly. You’re doing the right thing by sticking to your decision with this.
To be honest he should have brought the car into you with the engine in it to have a look at first , bringing just the engine in proves nothing other than only his word that the oil pressure is down
Exactly, I would have fitted an oil gauge to check the pressure of the engine in the car even road testing with the owner driving the car. Anyone can claim low oil pressure with a stripped-down engine. Think he's trying it myself.
Yeah id spin the oil pump at a realistic rpm and monitor press on mech guage str8t to block. But F this guy bought another engine? Thought thatd prove to machinist that engine was bad? Prick move. I mean could be paint lifting in oil pan, wrong o ring on pick up, bad filter, wrong oil, bad guage, bad cooler, million lil things he likely replaced on this "new" engine. Guy should know if theres no warranty and no issue found HE pays for the inspection
Definitely need the whole car to start from square one -- verify low oil pressure indication. IF so, begin troubleshooting from there. No doubt easier and less time-consuming than disassembling and gauging a complete engine that's likely fine.
Hopefully the £70/hour costs for inspection were set out clearly in a letter/email that went out BEFORE he brought it in. If you only told him about the inspection costs after you had it apart, thats not really on. You should also have set out in advance the storage policy ... 2 weeks storage after invoice FOC, after that, £50 a month or whatever. 3 months, stick it on eBay to get your money back. The key to all this is setting it out BEFORE the customer brings it in. Assuming you've done it right and told him about the £70/hour inspection costs then rock on. You should really have set a limit on how long you are prepared to stor it though, or it will still be there in a years time. I think you have been reasonable, workshop time has to be paid for. You can't just have customers sending stuff in that is perfectly fine and expecting you to spend a morning proving its all fine and not pay anything.
you wouldn't get that for free anywhere, and 70 pounds is an excellent rate these days. 300 dollars for an engine teardown and inspection. that is a screaming deal.
@@donk0405 True, but, contractually it needs to be set out in advance. Its also good to manage customer expectation. Most of his problems come from the mismatch between his and his customers expectations. Just put it all in writing before you set out and a lot of this will go away.
Nah he already said b4 that he laid out via email the terms of I being brought in for a good faith warranty since it's outside of normal warranty window, I the chap knew exactly what he was getting into
Biggest question Lee? Do you stamp engine blocks with your unique ID stamp or record the OEM block identification numbers upon receipt? Sounds to me that said person has given you another and the running engine in the car was your work on the original engine
Hi Lee from now on you should state on your invoice that any issues arise from any work will only be covered during the warranty period and returned to you within a reasonable time frame from date of 1st contact. Car manufactures do it on new cars or 2nd hand,once outside that period the customer is on his own. The other thing is clear water mark a unique mark on the engine so you can confirm its the correct engine aswell.
The new oil pump you fitted on vw engine is probably the only thing you can’t check on the bench or measure accurately that is the 1st thing I would look at put the old one back in it and then try it to eliminate it I’ve had so called new parts that aren’t working properly and just ignored it because it’s new it couldn’t possibly not be that it was that
In my experience you generally always get issues when you try to "help someone out" who is not entitled. i..e. Out of warrantee. You know what they say - No good deed goes unpunished!! Love your videos :-)
Having been in the game as a professional motor engineer for 40 years I would happily be taken to court and just speak the truth as honest practices that you do will Win the Day with this Chancer.
On the Golf Situ...put complete engine on stand, remove sump & valve cover. Put large drain pan under. Plumb oil into the oil pressure switch galley. Gradually ramp pressure up to maybe 15PSI. Look for the "leak". Give better idea where the pressure is going.
I think, I would start just draining the sump and then pump the oil (or new oil) back into the oil pressure switch galley to see if there is any problem with the oil pressure at all - evtl. turn the engine at the same time.
Lee, I think I can see bot sides of the coin here. From the customers point of view, he has fairly conclusively proven the issue is in the engine. BUT, I also agree that you have proven the work you carried out is correct, and to be fair, it's pretty difficult to assemble an 8v golf engine incorrectly. I think you have an issue that so far both parties have not seen. One of the odd ball ones. The key to these are customer communication. 20 years ago, I saw one of these crack a block. It would be perfect until it had run for 20 mins or so, then it would very suddenly have 60 psi oil pressure in the cooling system . 😅😅 it got rebuilt several times before it was concluded the block had cracked somewhere it couldn't be seen. I also once built a yb that had snapped the crank behind no 3 big end. We decked, line bored, and re bored the block, and built up the bottom end with a new crank. Turned like butter. Built the head, bolted it on to the block, and then you couldn't turn the crank any more. It was as if the block had gone soft. Sometimes you get issues that aren't anyone's fault. Maybe it's got a crack in the block or head that opens up when it's hot? Something silly like a bent / distorted pickup? Dowel in the pump too long ?
My advice Don’t go down the storage cost , better to say the engine is ready for uplift (for a certain time of your choosing) , after which the disposal of the engine falls to the business -in lieu of work done on the engine. After which you will sell the engine to recover FULL ( un-discounted ) costs spent on the engine for the business , and IF there are any surplus monies after that , will be given back to him .
My thoughts are that he needs to understand that as engine oil heats up, it gets thinner and the oil pressure decreases by a few psi. My own car does this. On startup when cold, the oil pressure is about 42psi. When it’s hot, the oil pressure drops to around 28psi, meaning the pressure drop is normal. Personally, I would not worry too much about a pressure drop of 4psi. This drop is normal.
Had a 90s dodge v8 auto 1/2 ton truck motor was bad. I got given the job 1/2 disassembled. I dont remeber if another "mechanic" or owner did that but i finished it put a new/used short block in it. Owner of shop took it for a test drive.... transmission blew. Slipped like crazy. Now we never had vehicle before it was disabled. The owner wasnt happy but he DID pay for a replacement trans and for me to install it. Pretty sure boss cut him a at cost deal on trans cause he felt bad. But CUSTOMER pays for that extra labor etc. We did not touch his trans.
Send customer an invoice stating final payment due, also stating if not paid in full you will sell. That causes action on both parties. Of course check with lawyer on proposed actions
Hi Lee. You are too nicer guy to be dealing with people like Mr Golf. You have been very fair with him, after all the engine was way out if warranty. You tried to help him out. Customers like him see an opportunity to take you for a ride and then frustrate the hell out of you because you are trying to do what you think is right. Did anyone actually see any evidence that the oil pressure was low before he brought the engine to you. Eventually you will realise that when you are wrong you are wrong and end up paying, and when you are right you are still wrong and still end up paying.
The fact that the exhaust ports were caked with oil engine burning oil is either a turbocharger problem you got ring failure need to take the whole damn thing apart and examine each piece and Mike everything
I don't know if this is any help but i had a volvo 240 with volvo 260 pistons in it the oil feed to the head came up a head bolt i put a different head bolt's in it and i had low oil pressure is this any help
Your bang on mate there’s to many self untitled idiots out there like this I get it in my trade all the time, stick to your guns as your time is valuable 👍
Well done Lee for sticking to your guns , now give him an email to explain that the bill needs paying and theres also a charge for storage after a reasonable time period , if this doesnt work tell him you will employ an independent engineer to examine the tolerances and if correct will also be a charge for individual examination and engineers report which would be your evidence if there a court case
Stand by your work; if the engine is all good then write the report, submit as you have, and now give a time to pay and collect the engine. If the engine is not collected in a set time, sell it to recover your build costs; cant just keep on messing around.
You need to STOP putting videos out when there are issues with customers, you are portraying your business in a bad light because of it. I understand you want to be transparent, but its costing you dear in the long run. Keep the bad stuff to yourself for gods sake.
Hello Lee Is there an pressure relief valve in the filter housing or a "blocked filter" bypass valve. Either one could lose pressure. Great channel, keep it up.
Million lil things guy prolly replaced on new engine but doesnt realize the big difference itd make. Guy is just rediculous thinking a new engine is gona prove anything to a machinist. I mean go to barrum and WATCH them micrometer the sizes etc. Seems in u.k. ppl expect to get free work even if stuff isnt related. In states it oay for it or its not leaving, or its getting a lien put on it
Lee your missing something if the customer was utilizing mechanical pressure gauge..I utilize a remote high pressure apparatus and adapt to oil filter or pick up in sump to find excessive leakage. From my experience oil pressure loss when hot 99% of the time particularly on a refresh is the oil pump. You guys run a honest buisness and know your shit
A few questions to ask before stripping the engine would be, what grade of oil is he using? Is his gauge right? What was the actual pressure? Is it actually out of spec? Sometimes the simplest things could be the problem. Just sayin' . Good luck with this one.
Just a thought does it have piston cooling nozzles by any chance? If so are they the ones with the check valve in the banjo bolts? At idle/low engine speeds they are supposed to basically close off to maintain correct oil pressure at low engine speeds.
I would have set some sort of time limit on him 'getting it sorted'. 1, 2, or 3 months if he hasn't figured out what he wants to do, it begins storage charges for x period then sold for fee recovery. Not sure how that works over there, but very common over here.
Lee, if anything to prove a point, reassemble the Golf engine to a long block then if possible rig the engine so it can be run by another engine ,ie prime the oil pump and run it (driven by the other engine) at about 1000 rpm to verify that oil is circulating and what pressure it has. If within spec then he's got no leg to stand on. Also no return of said engine till payment in full.
Lee I think you should send him an official letter with a timeline saying unless payment is made by such a date then you will start charging him storage for however long and once that time limit has passed and the bill has still not been paid then you will sell the engine to recoup lost income. Run it by your solicitor that way he knows what will happen if he doesn't act., hopefully it should spur him into action. I can't believe that he won't even pay the discounted rate, I'd put a time limit on that as well, if its not paid within a week then the rate will no longer be discounted. Some people think that they will wear people down but its just not on!
GTI - does it have the correct sump as there are 3-4 types if it’s too deep the pump may not be able to pull up the oil when thin at idle - check the dip stick is correct and hasn’t been cut or is too long
Under the law as I understand it, it's for him to prove there's a fault in your work. That means he has to show a machining error, not just low oil pressure. You are giving him access for an engineer to look for that, you can't do more. My money says you would actually have been glad to find a machining error because that would have resolved the situation, even if to your cost. In the end it's about the sizes of pieces of metal, no-one has to call anyone a liar, they just need to measure the sizes.
Dude I would go crazy on that guy & say either you pay the bill in 15 days or I’m selling your engine…period…I will scare him with the cops and repossess the engine
Did you check the oil pump pressure relief valve? If it has one? As a comment below states cracked oil pickup pipe and how good is his oil pressure gauge!
It all comes down to the Terms and Conditions you set out and the customer agreed to when you accepted the engine back for inspection. Customer’s really don’t understand you have a lien on their property while you work on it.
Hey Lee, just a quick request that when you do close ups of the heads we can't see anything when you move across the surface. It would be better to do one cylinder and stay there & sometimes you get too close and we can't see everything you're talking about. Not mad at you, just trying to help you get better! Keep up the great work!
I seem to recall that you have a solicitor on retention. Send him a solicitor’s letter stating that if the work isn’t paid for and engine collected within 2 weeks you’ll take him to the small claims court. Bloke sounds a prat.
I’ll lay odds on that you’ll get a solicitor’s letter. Personally I don’t see how much more you could have done to try and help the bloke out. But my money is on the 2.0 litre head on a 1.8 block being a big part of the problem.
Next time oil pressure issues are claimed, have them bring the car in and put a proper pressure tester in the hole for the cars own sensor. He can claim anything he wants but get it verified by yourself or a trusted 3rd party before even taking in warranty work.
The biggest problem with Customer Service is ... the customers. Plenty of folks lie through their teeth about a situation, in order to get what they want (rather than what they had previously agreed to, or what normal terms of business are), Seems to me like either the customer changed their mind, or they tried to get an undeserved refund on the first engine - both of them an issue with the customer's attitude.
No little bit of air trapped up a gallery dead end? Sounds stupid I know. Only way to get rid of it is to lean the car one way then the other when it's running.
So, we run a small vapor blast / hone job shop in Los Angeles. The glass bead media is so fine, you can barely see it without a flash light, gets on your hands and you can feel it crunch in your teeth. We wear latex gloves when using the machine and working with the parts. All parts, especially engine parts are placed in a ultrasonic cleaner (ours is a 14 gallon, holds just about everything). Second best option is very soapy water and a lot of elbow grease. Both ways, we spend a lot of time blowing out everything, threads, oil galleys, bores. Steel and iron surfaces get lightly oiled, keeps from flash rusting. Corrosion inhibitor added to the slurry helps a lot, too. The last thing you want is hidden media inside an assembled engine.... Love your skill set, enjoying the content.
Customers who are less than honest will test your capacity to be fair and reasonable. That is the phrase most used in legal actions. Inform the customer he has a certain timescale to resolve the issue of pay😢ment, and inform him you will start to charge storage after a month, with an option to sell the engine to recover your legitimate costs. Make sure everything is itemised and recorded.
Can I ask a quick question? Why is the hourly rate for a car engineer so expensive? Even discounted at £70, this is still pretty high. I'm not having a go at you or other engineers, but even the Independent Jaguar garage I use charges £80 per hour, half the price of a dealership. E.g. if you have one mechanic working 30 hours per week (billable,) for say 45 weeks a year, that's nearly £100,000 (£94,500.)
My local Jag Land Rover dealer charges £275 per hour plus vat that's a whopping £330 per hour! And these days they're not technicians just bloody fitters!
The guy claims low oil pressure on hot restart, however, has he proved this with external pressure monitoring? If no, he's not done his part before sending the engine back to you. A faulty oil filter housing and pressure relief valve will do this but that's nothing to do with the build you've done.
Fact of the matter is, *he* agreed to this deal whereby you take the engine and check (THREE TIMES!) all the dimensions; if any evidence for a cause of low oil psi is found, you’d gratis all the work and hand it back with a view to rebuilding the full unit FOR FREE to go back in the car. OTOH if no such evidence emerges (from you *or* an independent engineer OF HIS CHOICE) then he pays for your time, which you’re severely discounting anyway, and accepts the conclusion, whatever it may be. As it turns out, he had NO INTENTION of waiting on your conclusion and has bought a new engine anyway to prove a point that has nothing to do with the deal you made! I agree, he’s an unbelievable piece of work who doesn’t deserve your goodwill because he can very obviously afford to pay you (he bought a new engine to prove an irrelevancy ffs!) but has decided to have a tantrum and renege on your agreement. As for your videos, you’re well within your rights - in fact, very wise if only for legal reasons - to document your work. No personal details are mentioned; Golf’s are ten-a-penny - hell, my 70yo mother still drives one! - so there’s not even any identifying information. I’ll say it again: this customer doesn’t deserve your goodwill. For me, it’s an ultimatum: stick to the original agreement or you’ll demand full costs for *all* your work at standard rates. And with the video documentation, and even offer of independent verification, you’ll initiate legal action for time *and* costs. Should qualify for small claims court at under £5000 (as it used to be - that figure’s probably out of date tho’) and I don’t see he has a leg to stand on. That’s my tuppence - well, £2!
Did anyone check the oil pressure sensor?? I'd put a mechanical oil pressure gauge on motor before pulling out of car to verify low oil pressure! You mentioned replacement motor had a new sender on it!!
4psi. FOUR psi ! Who CARES about 4psi ?????? A 4psi drop isn't going to make the slightest difference to the engine. It's going to run EXACTLY the same as if the oil pressure was 4psi more. This is splitting hairs to a ludicrous level. I've met plenty of people in my time who fixate on the most trivial things that aren't 'perfect'... they ruminate and obsess over the idea that "it's not right" and can't rest until it's exactly what they want it to be. It's a common psychological issue. Ask yourself, would you have entertained this guy if he'd come in complaining of a 1psi drop ? Of course you wouldn't! But I guarantee you that if you had found something and fixed it and he was then getting 3psi more, but still 1psi short of what he is fixating on, he would be sat there starting at the gauge thinking "It's still not right.... it's still not right....". Stop wasting your time on this. You're probably arguing with a customer with OCD. All you need to be considering is this: Is the attained oil pressure within the manufacturer's specified limits ? (or, if such a figure can't be used because of the hybrid block/head arrangement, is it within industry acceptable limits for a similar engine) ? If the answer to that is yes, then tell him to go forth. He can try taking you to court, but I doubt he'd get anywhere if the oil pressure is actually within normal limits. There's no case to answer. As an aside, I subscribed to this channel because I like to watch videos about engines and engineering. Far too often though I'm finding I'm watching you discussing yet another customer service problem. Not what I subscribed for. I can get that watching Judge Judy.
As has already been eluded to, how has he evidenced the low oil pressure? Is it really low or is it just “reading” that it’s low. I find all of what you do absolutely fascinating but I’m nothing more than a owner/driver. That said, if you done all the work and checks that you listed here for £210.00, I’d be well chuffed. Bringing the car back with another engine and saying the fault is no longer present doesn’t prove much. Still way too many variables in play IMHO. Oh, and 3 guys on a job for 3 hours, isn’t that 9 hours labour?
Lee, I've been following your channel for sometime and have been keeping an eye on this build. Just last week you were saying how nice he was, now you're saying the complete opposite. I can understand his frustrations as he's done more than most customers would, pulling and engine isn't a 5 minute job and I remember you saying that he had replaced some parts to try and rectify issue. Plus he’s a returning customer. Last week you said the deal was that he would be charged for "the time and the parts for putting it back together" which may explain why he accused you of portraying yourself differently on your channel if he now has to pay you for his engine in bits. How much did he pay for the original build? Was the other engine installed the same as the previous one to prove a point perhaps??? Seems like a drastic measure, but given the recent videos about other engine failures you've done and court letters etc I can't blame him for not trusting you. I like your channel, it's very interesting and entertaining, but there's no smoke without fire.
"Was the other engine installed the same as the previous one to prove a point perhaps?" What point could that possibly prove? That an engine nobody has an interest in has oil pressure similar to most others off the VW production line., nothing more. Barum's biggest mistake was asking for an engine back rather than the car itself, where the oil pressure should have been checked on a proper gauge. If I were a betting man I'd lay money on there not even being an oil pressure issue in the first place, with the actual fault being the sensor reporting that there is.
Be aware that ingestion of aluminium using cooking pots ect in the 1960's and 70's has possibly got links to Dementia and Alzheimer's, cooking foods which are acidic ie most fruits and tomatoes slowly dissolve the aluminium. Releasing micro particles of aluminium and blowing them around with an airline after blasting might be an issue. just a thought google it. b.t.y. I use cast iron, copper or stainless steel cooking equipment.
Never ever, EVER tell a customer you will keep something forever - because they may well hold you to that. I am not in the trade, but I remember garages I used giving between 30 and 90 days; although one had a 7 day storage, and after that you had to pay for the storage at a penalty rate. One mechanic neighbour doing classic car rebuilds had a Frogeye Sprite abandoned with him for over 10 YEARS; ownership of the car went to court, and I believe he eventually got to keep the car, but obviously, he had rebuilt and stored that car for a long time with no payment from the guy who brought it in, back in the early 1980s.
Have been thinking about the golf engine with low oil pressure at idle... what is odd about it? first is the 1800 head on the 2000 block, and if its an 8 valve then it is probably an early mark, perhaps mark 2. This reminds me of a problem I had with my 1987 gti. probably unrelated but at about 70k miles. in 1998 I did an oil flush,,, next thing I know it had bottom end rattle. This was very temporary but caused by loose carbon material restricting the oil pickup strainer, dropped sump cleaned it all and all was ok. This made me think of another potential problem that could occur if all tolerances tight.. what is special about idle condition, first, the intake manifold is under lots of vacuum, and by connection to the crankcase breather, then the crankcase pressure could be also pulled down as well, this will reduce oil pressure, by a similar amount. particularly if almost zero piston ring blowby!. To test this, I would run engine, hook up oil pressure guage,, read pressure at idle, then remove the oil filler cap! if oil pressre goes up at same revs then you have an answer. Possible problems with breather system, Has low oil viscosity been discounted, eg bad injectors, fuel in the oil?
To be brutally honest £210 + vat is fuck all in this day and age. Now if it was £2100 + vat is something else and I can understand he'd be a bit piss off. But £210 + vat come on really 🤔
You're saying one thing about being stricter, but then the exceptions keep getting added as qualifiers... It IS out of warranty, he obviously doesn't need the engine, and is looking to get something from you which you have encouraged by not charging for the work already done. Now with further work likely needing to be done in future, you're already operating from a poor position (unless you plan to sell the parts for recovery). Have the owner pay your current bill BEFORE proceeding, or you buy the engine and sell it to another client on his behalf, splitting proceeds after your FULL expenses are recovered.
There will always be customers who want something for nothing . As I said in my previous comments , I built a test bed to run the finished engines to make sure everything is ok . The big bonus is the ability to do an initial bedding in of the rings . Many people, including garages , seem unaware of the need for an initial bedding in at various speeds . It solved all customer issues, as they can witness their own engine running. Regarding your new vapour blaster , fantastic finish , but I stopped doing it because of grit residue still in the oil galleries being very difficult to remove . Ended up with a couple of engine / bearing failures. Really enjoy the channel. Really enjoy the channel , keep up the great work .
This is the old story of "a little bit of knowledge is dangerous," and "making assumptions." We've all done it, but you would expect most people to grow up. I doubt this guy will start anything. He'll pay the bill and collect it next week
Lee if you value your customers, you would not publicly humiliate them by giving a one-sided monlogue like this about them on youTube. 35,000 people have seen this already - that's a football stadium. Have you stopped for a moment and thought about how you'd feel if somebody was doing this about you, with no right of reply ? At best they'll be upset/offended, you could be exposed to legal action or you may encounter somebody nasty who will take it even further. We don't know who was right or wrong here as we've only had one side of the story. Furthermore, what we think is irrelevant. This is a private matter between you and your customer. Keep things professional and do not resort to messing with people's emotions/feelings.
I doubt the guy is lying. I'm pretty sure he's put two and two together and made five. He's put in another engine and fixed the issue, therefore the only possible issue is that the old engine is faulty. He has not taken into account a dozen other parts, sensors, connectors and incorrect workmanship or maintenance. If you contrast Lee's attitude, of not assuming anything, taking responsibility for a job out of warranty as a favour, checking carefully, having it double checked then triple checked and carefully and laboriously detailing all the measurements and keeping the customer informed.... .....to that of the customer, who without any proof, without any testing and without any reasonable suspicion is 100% certain there is an issue with the engine. Furthermore is willing to accuse and imply Lee as dishonest because of this misplaced certainty
Some people you just can't please. Get the golf off him and swap the engine with his original one using all water and oil pumps and switches/sensors and then put him to shame .probably has a new rad in or so.running hotter, probably Had similar prob when I fitted a 4age in my 1600 sport mk 2 30 year ago. Looks like you might never get to the end of this one.
Hi Lee. Another way of getting traction with the algorithm is to get new people to comment and discuss things in the comments section. Encourage more dialogue in the comments and it might help grow the channel.
Low oil pressure? How low and when? At idle? 4 psi low? How much pressure at Idle and under load? What kind of oil? Stock oil pump? Is there a high flow pump available? All the bearings looked good so where is the evidence of a problem?
Can’t understand why I Get recommeded videos from this channel. I understand that dealing with customers can be a challenge sometimes. But this guy just whines and whinges. Why not show off the work you do instead? This puts me off on ordering anything from this shop.
Golf guy sounds like a complete wazzock. His expectation obviously was that you’d put your hands up and admit fault.. but you can’t do that as nothing seems to be wrong.
stick to your policy... Iff its goood its good.. This man is playing you.. Trying to get money back for a problem that does not exist. You dont work for free. Period. Now for sale, A good rebuild golf engine soon? lol His problem is proababy a bad pump, gage or oil sensor.. or he is using the wrong api oil..
Key point of my previous comment about golf engine. At idle, engine pulls manifold vacuum and if crankcase breather connects downstream of throttle body, then crankcase will also be vacuumed , which will reduce oil pressure, particular if all ring tolerances are very good!!. remove oil filler cap and see what happens to oil pressure.
Did this person show you proof that this engine had lower oil pressure, or are you taking him at his word? All dimensions within tolerances, determination it is not a parts, machining or assembly issue. Customer is responsible for time. Do you have said conditions for the customer to sign off prior to doing the work? You should. Payment in full before item leaves the shop. 30 days (or your choice) without payment, start charging storage fees. 45 days (or your choice) without payment it is abandoned property and becomes yours to dispose of.
Lee, just remember that this is your business. Comments about being soft are perhaps misguided from someone who doesn't own a small business and is not subject to "word of mouth". I'm not saying roll over all the time but do consider the bigger picture and the power of "word of mouth". If the guy sells the engine who cares? IMHO it's irrelevant. Just focus on the oil pressure issue. It would be good to be able to measure or test the oil pressure with an external device/sensor.
Before you go much further with this Golf jobbie have a talk with your local Trading standards people, who you will as I have found will give you the rules re storage and the sale of stored goods limitations. Good luck and keep on building good motors.
mate, let him take the engine in its current state, wipe your hands of it, learn from it and don't let him stress you any further. £210 plus vat isn't worth the blood pressure. Stick to your warranty terms and don't strip engines well out of warranty under goodwill conditions on someone's word - might have been nothing wrong with it at all - misdiagnosed etc. Needed verification before pulling apart. No good deed goes unpunished.
Right, you shouldn’t be penalized if the work you did wasn’t the problem, but you guys are the pros and that’s why he came to you in the first place right? Surely you can find the real problem and not throw in the towel?
I'd also say "well done, sticking to your guns" except you're not hard enough. It has to be a written and signed agreement, that the customer has to pay for inspection if you find nothing wrong. You can be nice to offer a discount rate, but if the customer wants to hackle and fight over the invoice, you then slap him/her with the full rate. Doing this may very well cost you some customers, but it will soon be known that people can't squeeze your nuts to get free work from you. And the customers you lose on that front, weren't worth your time anyway.
The golf engine is out of warranty. You have no obligation. Customer commissioned you to carry out inspection at cost to him if no issues were found.(Hopefully in writing) You have honoured that agreement and even offered generous good will discounts. He has no grounds to take you to court, if anything, you are the injured party. You have told him the engine is ready for collection and payment is due. Hold on to the engine until payment and storage charge is remitted and inform him that after 3 months the engine will be sold to cover unpaid debt. Stick to your warranties. You wouldn't get your TV repaired by a manufacturer one day after warranty, whether you had used it or not.
Think you should have told him 2wks grace for him to decide what he wanted to do!then you would be charging storage fees as per terms an conditions! Please give him notice by e-mail or recorded delivery letter! Otherwise your goin to be stuck with engine occupy valuable space!
It's very reasonable for you, as the shop, to have the customer bring something back for inspection of a possible problem. You performed a proper inspection, at a discounted shop rate. Your inspection concluded there was no problem with this engine. You have kept up your end of the deal. The customer may not like or agree with your conclusions, that's his prerogative. But he is not keeping up his end. He should pay the amount due and move on.
I'm sure this has been mentioned before, but could it be the oil pump pressure Control/bypass valve getting stuck in the bore and causing the oil pressure to drop after it hits operating temperature or the spring could be failing after engine hits it's operating temperature also.
Sounds like another 'chancer' to me. If the engine oil pressure is down on that particular engine (I bet it isn't really) he most likeley just wanted it "sorted" so he could sell it on. It isn't even the original engine from his car most likelely. Stamps on the cases would stop a ringer getting returned, for a (so he hoped) free check over. If someone thinks they can pull a fast one over someone, they WILL try to pull a fast one..
Not sure if engine rebuilders are able to test oil pressure on a bench. Wouldn't that confirm if its a problem or not? Had a 69 MG engine rebuilt years ago and it slipped a bearing in a day. Builder refused to fix it without charging more. Blamed it on the oil pump although he removed and installed it and wrote "rebuild engine" on the invoice. He relented on a legal letter. I think he tried it because I was a kid and knew nothing except how to accelerate my mouth back then. He was in the wrong then. Wish I'd used a reputable engine builder and not the corner mechanic.
Hey Lee do you have your measuring equipment calibrated? I'm a machinist and all of our blue chip customers insist on it. If you don't I would invest in a set of slip gauges so you can calibrate your micrometers .
It's out of warranty and you've done him a favour with discounting the hours. You've found nothing wrong with it so his next step must be to get an independent inspection as without that he doesn't have a leg to stand on. If he doesn't want to do that then it's likely because he knows there's nothing wrong with the engine and he's just trying his luck. In that case, he either pays up or you sell the engine to recover your losses. This feels very much like the MGB sheet the problem was something external. On a separate note, WTF is that BMW head doing leaning against a brick! If you must prop it up, use something softer than the head material to avoid damage
Why is there always someone trying to get over? Its people like that that made me close my business. Got tired of getting stiffed for quality work and paying taxes on invoices that weren't paid.
Lee the Golf bloke is just your usual noob, not wanting to pay. Unfortunately your going to have to get customers to sign an agreement before any work commences. Customers like him just make it more difficult for everyone else. Also tell him about the storage charges that might hurray him up a bit.
Stick to your guns Lee. This guy is up to something. Why buy and put in a new engine if you are getting the old one rebuilt? and conversely why get the old one rebuilt if you have the money for a new one? Follow the guidance you've received from people experienced with this type of engine, check out the components that may be suspect in these engines and get a engineers report. Don't give the engine back unless he pays. Charge him for storage.
Hey Lee, here is a tip. When doing a carry out engine like this it helps to have a auto repair shop you can count on. We used to do diagnosis for a local machine shop when they had "problems" with a rebuild, it's funny, low oil pressure was a biggie, in fact in one case the vehicle had oil pressure at idle but lost it above 2000 rpm, so we suggested taking the pan down and having a look, the machine shop said ok and we took it down, there is no way you would guess what the problem was. The customer spray painted the INSIDE of the pan, the paint came off as a sheet of paper and got sucked onto the oil pickup screen, only when the rpms moved higher. So you never know what happens once the customer gets his grubby paws on it. Ask to see the vehicle with the engine installed before doing anything, then have a shop of YOUR choosing do a basic diagnosis of the problem. Sometimes people lie, not everyone, BUUUUUUUUT
Blue Mule
NC USA
Did you see the poor guy who bought a new oil pan for his Diesel engine. Same thing, paint from the factory in this case inside the pan just came off and clogged the pickup and he blew up the motor. Such a dumb thing to take out an engine.
@Jeff Leach people skimp on that stuff buy the easiest or cheapest one they can. Saving $ when you are not a professional mechanic is dangerous. Ppl just do not have knowledge to inspect things. The sad thing is ppl expect things for free or that its GOTTA be your fault you just worked on it...... heard that alot, had to calmly explain a completely unrelated issue.
I have seen someone leave a shop rag in the pan. Never trust anyone's installation.
I doubt the guy is lying. I'm pretty sure he's put two and two together and made five. He's put in another engine and fixed the issue, therefore the only possible issue is that the old engine is faulty. He has not taken into account a dozen other parts, sensors, connectors and incorrect workmanship or maintenance.
If you contrast Lee's attitude, of not assuming anything, taking responsibility for a job out of warranty as a favour, checking carefully, having it double checked then triple checked and carefully and laboriously detailing all the measurements and keeping the customer informed....
.....to that of the customer, who without any proof, without any testing and without any reasonable suspicion is 100% certain there is an issue with the engine. Furthermore is willing to accuse and imply Lee as dishonest because of this misplaced certainty
Recon you need to pressure up the oilways see if you can hear an air leak which must be the fault we had a similar problem a while ago
Glad to hear that you are sticking to your policy regarding out of warranty work.
about time, as this was really annoying me, if you buy a TV from Currys, and it goes wrong 1 day after the warranty ends, guess what, they dont give a f...
@@stevem7868-y4l You're right. I did buy a TV from Curry's, was told if it goes wrong just bring it in and we'll give you a replacement, what a load of BOLLOX. Motherboard went TIT'S up, had to wait for repair, Two weeks. Good job we had a TV in the house.
@@kwakgreen Great, they honored the warranty, they HAVE to. What about "steve" and his "out of warranty situation"? You're talking about an entirely different situation FFS.
Bloke with golf..you done all you can and more, but you can’t fix stupid👍👍
Lee re low oil pressure golf. One strange thing I have encountered is a cracked oil pickup which allows the pump to suck some air. Just thought I would mention it as it can be hard to spot. The other one is to vacuum test the oil pressure relief valve to check that when its closed it seals. Just a couple of weird ones in case they help.
Golf guy has every right to be out of sorts, he complained about the low oil pressure well within the warranty. You advised him to do certain things which you acknowledged he had done, look you are the experts here sometimes you just have to suck it up. Why is it surprising that he has put another engine in the Golf? Why is it surprising that he wants the original engine fixed, I assume he paid X thousands to have this done. After running/owning a garage 25 plus years I would get some second hand ancilleries and run the engine up your self, I know it would cost time and money but it's probably the only way now, unless you want to leave it up the court. By the way I am a fan of your chancel and have been subscribed for probably 6 months now
I don’t think you can be any more open and transparent about the situation with this golf engine. The fact you’ve offered for him to get an independent engineer to come and check the engine to confirm everything is ok is the right thing to do, I don’t see why anyone wouldn’t be happy about it unless they’re worried that they are not going to find anything wrong. Any independent inspections I would want carried out at your shop so that you can be sure everything is checked and you can see that’s been done properly.
You’re doing the right thing by sticking to your decision with this.
Sounds like he's trying to pull a fast one .
Glad you stuck to your guns Lee.
To be honest he should have brought the car into you with the engine in it to have a look at first , bringing just the engine in proves nothing other than only his word that the oil pressure is down
Exactly, I would have fitted an oil gauge to check the pressure of the engine in the car even road testing with the owner driving the car.
Anyone can claim low oil pressure with a stripped-down engine. Think he's trying it myself.
Yeah id spin the oil pump at a realistic rpm and monitor press on mech guage str8t to block. But F this guy bought another engine? Thought thatd prove to machinist that engine was bad? Prick move. I mean could be paint lifting in oil pan, wrong o ring on pick up, bad filter, wrong oil, bad guage, bad cooler, million lil things he likely replaced on this "new" engine. Guy should know if theres no warranty and no issue found HE pays for the inspection
Definitely need the whole car to start from square one -- verify low oil pressure indication. IF so, begin troubleshooting from there. No doubt easier and less time-consuming than disassembling and gauging a complete engine that's likely fine.
Hopefully the £70/hour costs for inspection were set out clearly in a letter/email that went out BEFORE he brought it in. If you only told him about the inspection costs after you had it apart, thats not really on. You should also have set out in advance the storage policy ... 2 weeks storage after invoice FOC, after that, £50 a month or whatever. 3 months, stick it on eBay to get your money back. The key to all this is setting it out BEFORE the customer brings it in. Assuming you've done it right and told him about the £70/hour inspection costs then rock on. You should really have set a limit on how long you are prepared to stor it though, or it will still be there in a years time. I think you have been reasonable, workshop time has to be paid for. You can't just have customers sending stuff in that is perfectly fine and expecting you to spend a morning proving its all fine and not pay anything.
you wouldn't get that for free anywhere, and 70 pounds is an excellent rate these days. 300 dollars for an engine teardown and inspection. that is a screaming deal.
Why would you not expect some charges whether informed before hand or not if there was no fault found ?
If someone spends time on it; you pay, nothing is free
@@donk0405 True, but, contractually it needs to be set out in advance. Its also good to manage customer expectation. Most of his problems come from the mismatch between his and his customers expectations. Just put it all in writing before you set out and a lot of this will go away.
Nah he already said b4 that he laid out via email the terms of I being brought in for a good faith warranty since it's outside of normal warranty window, I the chap knew exactly what he was getting into
Biggest question Lee? Do you stamp engine blocks with your unique ID stamp or record the OEM block identification numbers upon receipt? Sounds to me that said person has given you another and the running engine in the car was your work on the original engine
My thoughts too.
Seen that done a few times,worked at a place where boss use to put a few discrete hidden markings on engines upon receipt.
My Thoughts, Stick the engine No's on the receipts !
Hi Lee from now on you should state on your invoice that any issues arise from any work will only be covered during the warranty period and returned to you within a reasonable time frame from date of 1st contact. Car manufactures do it on new cars or 2nd hand,once outside that period the customer is on his own. The other thing is clear water mark a unique mark on the engine so you can confirm its the correct engine aswell.
The new oil pump you fitted on vw engine is probably the only thing you can’t check on the bench or measure accurately that is the 1st thing I would look at put the old one back in it and then try it to eliminate it I’ve had so called new parts that aren’t working properly and just ignored it because it’s new it couldn’t possibly not be that it was that
In my experience you generally always get issues when you try to "help someone out" who is not entitled. i..e. Out of warrantee.
You know what they say - No good deed goes unpunished!!
Love your videos :-)
Having been in the game as a professional motor engineer for 40 years I would happily be taken to court and just speak the truth as honest practices that you do will Win the Day with this Chancer.
My thought would be that a 4 Psi pressure drop when warm isn’t a problem.
On the Golf Situ...put complete engine on stand, remove sump & valve cover. Put large drain pan under. Plumb oil into the oil pressure switch galley. Gradually ramp pressure up to maybe 15PSI. Look for the "leak". Give better idea where the pressure is going.
I think, I would start just draining the sump and then pump the oil (or new oil) back into the oil pressure switch galley to see if there is any problem with the oil pressure at all - evtl. turn the engine at the same time.
Did you make the guy aware of the storage fees, while he waits to do something ?
Was thinking the same but i guess he overlooked that part cause he was so surprised about the guys angle and reaction.....
Good point! Absolutely DO start charging this fool for the storage now.
Lee, I think I can see bot sides of the coin here. From the customers point of view, he has fairly conclusively proven the issue is in the engine. BUT, I also agree that you have proven the work you carried out is correct, and to be fair, it's pretty difficult to assemble an 8v golf engine incorrectly. I think you have an issue that so far both parties have not seen. One of the odd ball ones. The key to these are customer communication. 20 years ago, I saw one of these crack a block. It would be perfect until it had run for 20 mins or so, then it would very suddenly have 60 psi oil pressure in the cooling system . 😅😅 it got rebuilt several times before it was concluded the block had cracked somewhere it couldn't be seen.
I also once built a yb that had snapped the crank behind no 3 big end. We decked, line bored, and re bored the block, and built up the bottom end with a new crank. Turned like butter. Built the head, bolted it on to the block, and then you couldn't turn the crank any more. It was as if the block had gone soft. Sometimes you get issues that aren't anyone's fault.
Maybe it's got a crack in the block or head that opens up when it's hot? Something silly like a bent / distorted pickup? Dowel in the pump too long ?
@@iainball2023 Well the owner has the option of paying someone to check long block, and if they find issues, he wins, if they dont, boom he pays @!
My advice
Don’t go down the storage cost , better to say the engine is ready for uplift (for a certain time of your choosing) , after which the disposal of the engine falls to the business -in lieu of work done on the engine.
After which you will sell the engine to recover FULL ( un-discounted ) costs spent on the engine for the business , and IF there are any surplus monies after that , will be given back to him .
Out of warranty is out of warranty, you don't want to listen to I only did 40 miles in it stories.
My thoughts are that he needs to understand that as engine oil heats up, it gets thinner and the oil pressure decreases by a few psi. My own car does this. On startup when cold, the oil pressure is about 42psi. When it’s hot, the oil pressure drops to around 28psi, meaning the pressure drop is normal. Personally, I would not worry too much about a pressure drop of 4psi. This drop is normal.
Had a 90s dodge v8 auto 1/2 ton truck motor was bad. I got given the job 1/2 disassembled. I dont remeber if another "mechanic" or owner did that but i finished it put a new/used short block in it. Owner of shop took it for a test drive.... transmission blew. Slipped like crazy. Now we never had vehicle before it was disabled. The owner wasnt happy but he DID pay for a replacement trans and for me to install it. Pretty sure boss cut him a at cost deal on trans cause he felt bad. But CUSTOMER pays for that extra labor etc. We did not touch his trans.
such a ,,good garage" :D :D :D you can see overspray everywhere from silver spray paint. On the table, valve seals etc..
Send customer an invoice stating final payment due, also stating if not paid in full you will sell. That causes action on both parties. Of course check with lawyer on proposed actions
Hi Lee. You are too nicer guy to be dealing with people like Mr Golf. You have been very fair with him, after all the engine was way out if warranty. You tried to help him out. Customers like him see an opportunity to take you for a ride and then frustrate the hell out of you because you are trying to do what you think is right. Did anyone actually see any evidence that the oil pressure was low before he brought the engine to you. Eventually you will realise that when you are wrong you are wrong and end up paying, and when you are right you are still wrong and still end up paying.
I'd like to see the receipt from when he bought the replacement engine and from whom he bought it. He may have been scamming you from the beginning.
The fact that the exhaust ports were caked with oil engine burning oil is either a turbocharger problem you got ring failure need to take the whole damn thing apart and examine each piece and Mike everything
I think you've been spot on and fair with the guy. Defo a bit of an odd situation. Shame you couldn't find anything wrong with the engine.
I don't know if this is any help but i had a volvo 240 with volvo 260 pistons in it the oil feed to the head came up a head bolt i put a different head bolt's in it and i had low oil pressure is this any help
Is the vw engine the actual engine you did worked on
I'd me stamping all blocks from now on with you own unique number
Well spotted you can’t trust anyone when it effects their wallet 😂
Your bang on mate there’s to many self untitled idiots out there like this I get it in my trade all the time, stick to your guns as your time is valuable 👍
You’ve gone way above and beyond to help this customer, stand your ground.
Well done Lee for sticking to your guns , now give him an email to explain that the bill needs paying and theres also a charge for storage after a reasonable time period , if this doesnt work tell him you will employ an independent engineer to examine the tolerances and if correct will also be a charge for individual examination and engineers report which would be your evidence if there a court case
Stand by your work; if the engine is all good then write the report, submit as you have, and now give a time to pay and collect the engine. If the engine is not collected in a set time, sell it to recover your build costs; cant just keep on messing around.
You need to STOP putting videos out when there are issues with customers, you are portraying your business in a bad light because of it. I understand you want to be transparent, but its costing you dear in the long run. Keep the bad stuff to yourself for gods sake.
Hello Lee
Is there an pressure relief valve in the filter housing or a "blocked filter" bypass valve. Either one could lose pressure.
Great channel, keep it up.
You beat me to your comment.
Million lil things guy prolly replaced on new engine but doesnt realize the big difference itd make. Guy is just rediculous thinking a new engine is gona prove anything to a machinist. I mean go to barrum and WATCH them micrometer the sizes etc. Seems in u.k. ppl expect to get free work even if stuff isnt related. In states it oay for it or its not leaving, or its getting a lien put on it
Lee your missing something if the customer was utilizing mechanical pressure gauge..I utilize a remote high pressure apparatus and adapt to oil filter or pick up in sump to find excessive leakage. From my experience oil pressure loss when hot 99% of the time particularly on a refresh is the oil pump. You guys run a honest buisness and know your shit
A few questions to ask before stripping the engine would be, what grade of oil is he using? Is his gauge right? What was the actual pressure? Is it actually out of spec? Sometimes the simplest things could be the problem. Just sayin' . Good luck with this one.
I wonder if there could be a crack in the oil gallery leaking internally.?
Just a thought does it have piston cooling nozzles by any chance? If so are they the ones with the check valve in the banjo bolts? At idle/low engine speeds they are supposed to basically close off to maintain correct oil pressure at low engine speeds.
I would have set some sort of time limit on him 'getting it sorted'. 1, 2, or 3 months if he hasn't figured out what he wants to do, it begins storage charges for x period then sold for fee recovery. Not sure how that works over there, but very common over here.
Lee, if anything to prove a point, reassemble the Golf engine to a long block then if possible rig the engine so it can be run by another engine ,ie prime the oil pump and run it (driven by the other engine) at about 1000 rpm to verify that oil is circulating and what pressure it has.
If within spec then he's got no leg to stand on.
Also no return of said engine till payment in full.
@ Paul Hoogeveen good idea sir
Lee I think you should send him an official letter with a timeline saying unless payment is made by such a date then you will start charging him storage for however long and once that time limit has passed and the bill has still not been paid then you will sell the engine to recoup lost income. Run it by your solicitor that way he knows what will happen if he doesn't act., hopefully it should spur him into action. I can't believe that he won't even pay the discounted rate, I'd put a time limit on that as well, if its not paid within a week then the rate will no longer be discounted. Some people think that they will wear people down but its just not on!
GTI - does it have the correct sump as there are 3-4 types if it’s too deep the pump may not be able to pull up the oil when thin at idle - check the dip stick is correct and hasn’t been cut or is too long
Under the law as I understand it, it's for him to prove there's a fault in your work. That means he has to show a machining error, not just low oil pressure. You are giving him access for an engineer to look for that, you can't do more. My money says you would actually have been glad to find a machining error because that would have resolved the situation, even if to your cost. In the end it's about the sizes of pieces of metal, no-one has to call anyone a liar, they just need to measure the sizes.
Dude I would go crazy on that guy & say either you pay the bill in 15 days or I’m selling your engine…period…I will scare him with the cops and repossess the engine
Dude put that on your next contract that if you don’t pay the bill the engine will be repossessed…I would bitch slap that guy lol 😂
Warranty time is whatever you agree with the customer, anything beyond that is fuckin Charity.
This guy with the golf is just trying it on, it's all about money, he's trying to get a Freeby, he just wants a free engine to sell on.
Did you check the oil pump pressure relief valve? If it has one? As a comment below states cracked oil pickup pipe and how good is his oil pressure gauge!
It all comes down to the Terms and Conditions you set out and the customer agreed to when you accepted the engine back for inspection. Customer’s really don’t understand you have a lien on their property while you work on it.
Hey Lee, just a quick request that when you do close ups of the heads we can't see anything when you move across the surface. It would be better to do one cylinder and stay there & sometimes you get too close and we can't see everything you're talking about.
Not mad at you, just trying to help you get better! Keep up the great work!
yeah me too
Can the oil pressure sensor on the suspect engine be tested to make sure it is reading properly? Even at operating temps?
I was thinking the exact same thing
I seem to recall that you have a solicitor on retention. Send him a solicitor’s letter stating that if the work isn’t paid for and engine collected within 2 weeks you’ll take him to the small claims court. Bloke sounds a prat.
I’ll lay odds on that you’ll get a solicitor’s letter. Personally I don’t see how much more you could have done to try and help the bloke out. But my money is on the 2.0 litre head on a 1.8 block being a big part of the problem.
How? Do you know more than you've said? Spill it.
its the other way around (2l block w/ 18 head) but yeah... any idea why the 2l head is used when the cylinder displacement stays at 1.8?
Next time oil pressure issues are claimed, have them bring the car in and put a proper pressure tester in the hole for the cars own sensor. He can claim anything he wants but get it verified by yourself or a trusted 3rd party before even taking in warranty work.
I think they did put their own tester on it?
The biggest problem with Customer Service is ... the customers.
Plenty of folks lie through their teeth about a situation, in order to get what they want (rather than what they had previously agreed to, or what normal terms of business are),
Seems to me like either the customer changed their mind, or they tried to get an undeserved refund on the first engine - both of them an issue with the customer's attitude.
No little bit of air trapped up a gallery dead end? Sounds stupid I know. Only way to get rid of it is to lean the car one way then the other when it's running.
So, we run a small vapor blast / hone job shop in Los Angeles. The glass bead media is so fine, you can barely see it without a flash light, gets on your hands and you can feel it crunch in your teeth. We wear latex gloves when using the machine and working with the parts. All parts, especially engine parts are placed in a ultrasonic cleaner (ours is a 14 gallon, holds just about everything). Second best option is very soapy water and a lot of elbow grease. Both ways, we spend a lot of time blowing out everything, threads, oil galleys, bores. Steel and iron surfaces get lightly oiled, keeps from flash rusting. Corrosion inhibitor added to the slurry helps a lot, too.
The last thing you want is hidden media inside an assembled engine....
Love your skill set, enjoying the content.
Customers who are less than honest will test your capacity to be fair and reasonable. That is the phrase most used in legal actions.
Inform the customer he has a certain timescale to resolve the issue of pay😢ment, and inform him you will start to charge storage after a month, with an option to sell the engine to recover your legitimate costs.
Make sure everything is itemised and recorded.
Can I ask a quick question? Why is the hourly rate for a car engineer so expensive? Even discounted at £70, this is still pretty high. I'm not having a go at you or other engineers, but even the Independent Jaguar garage I use charges £80 per hour, half the price of a dealership. E.g. if you have one mechanic working 30 hours per week (billable,) for say 45 weeks a year, that's nearly £100,000 (£94,500.)
My local Jag Land Rover dealer charges £275 per hour plus vat that's a whopping £330 per hour! And these days they're not technicians just bloody fitters!
The guy claims low oil pressure on hot restart, however, has he proved this with external pressure monitoring? If no, he's not done his part before sending the engine back to you. A faulty oil filter housing and pressure relief valve will do this but that's nothing to do with the build you've done.
Fact of the matter is, *he* agreed to this deal whereby you take the engine and check (THREE TIMES!) all the dimensions; if any evidence for a cause of low oil psi is found, you’d gratis all the work and hand it back with a view to rebuilding the full unit FOR FREE to go back in the car. OTOH if no such evidence emerges (from you *or* an independent engineer OF HIS CHOICE) then he pays for your time, which you’re severely discounting anyway, and accepts the conclusion, whatever it may be.
As it turns out, he had NO INTENTION of waiting on your conclusion and has bought a new engine anyway to prove a point that has nothing to do with the deal you made! I agree, he’s an unbelievable piece of work who doesn’t deserve your goodwill because he can very obviously afford to pay you (he bought a new engine to prove an irrelevancy ffs!) but has decided to have a tantrum and renege on your agreement.
As for your videos, you’re well within your rights - in fact, very wise if only for legal reasons - to document your work. No personal details are mentioned; Golf’s are ten-a-penny - hell, my 70yo mother still drives one! - so there’s not even any identifying information. I’ll say it again: this customer doesn’t deserve your goodwill.
For me, it’s an ultimatum: stick to the original agreement or you’ll demand full costs for *all* your work at standard rates. And with the video documentation, and even offer of independent verification, you’ll initiate legal action for time *and* costs. Should qualify for small claims court at under £5000 (as it used to be - that figure’s probably out of date tho’) and I don’t see he has a leg to stand on. That’s my tuppence - well, £2!
Did anyone check the oil pressure sensor?? I'd put a mechanical oil pressure gauge on motor before pulling out of car to verify low oil pressure! You mentioned replacement motor had a new sender on it!!
4psi. FOUR psi ! Who CARES about 4psi ?????? A 4psi drop isn't going to make the slightest difference to the engine. It's going to run EXACTLY the same as if the oil pressure was 4psi more. This is splitting hairs to a ludicrous level. I've met plenty of people in my time who fixate on the most trivial things that aren't 'perfect'... they ruminate and obsess over the idea that "it's not right" and can't rest until it's exactly what they want it to be. It's a common psychological issue. Ask yourself, would you have entertained this guy if he'd come in complaining of a 1psi drop ? Of course you wouldn't! But I guarantee you that if you had found something and fixed it and he was then getting 3psi more, but still 1psi short of what he is fixating on, he would be sat there starting at the gauge thinking "It's still not right.... it's still not right....".
Stop wasting your time on this. You're probably arguing with a customer with OCD.
All you need to be considering is this: Is the attained oil pressure within the manufacturer's specified limits ? (or, if such a figure can't be used because of the hybrid block/head arrangement, is it within industry acceptable limits for a similar engine) ? If the answer to that is yes, then tell him to go forth. He can try taking you to court, but I doubt he'd get anywhere if the oil pressure is actually within normal limits. There's no case to answer.
As an aside, I subscribed to this channel because I like to watch videos about engines and engineering. Far too often though I'm finding I'm watching you discussing yet another customer service problem. Not what I subscribed for. I can get that watching Judge Judy.
As has already been eluded to, how has he evidenced the low oil pressure? Is it really low or is it just “reading” that it’s low. I find all of what you do absolutely fascinating but I’m nothing more than a owner/driver. That said, if you done all the work and checks that you listed here for £210.00, I’d be well chuffed. Bringing the car back with another engine and saying the fault is no longer present doesn’t prove much. Still way too many variables in play IMHO. Oh, and 3 guys on a job for 3 hours, isn’t that 9 hours labour?
Lee, I've been following your channel for sometime and have been keeping an eye on this build.
Just last week you were saying how nice he was, now you're saying the complete opposite.
I can understand his frustrations as he's done more than most customers would, pulling and engine isn't a 5 minute job and I remember you saying that he had replaced some parts to try and rectify issue. Plus he’s a returning customer.
Last week you said the deal was that he would be charged for "the time and the parts for putting it back together" which may explain why he accused you of portraying yourself differently on your channel if he now has to pay you for his engine in bits. How much did he pay for the original build?
Was the other engine installed the same as the previous one to prove a point perhaps??? Seems like a drastic measure, but given the recent videos about other engine failures you've done and court letters etc I can't blame him for not trusting you.
I like your channel, it's very interesting and entertaining, but there's no smoke without fire.
"Was the other engine installed the same as the previous one to prove a point perhaps?"
What point could that possibly prove?
That an engine nobody has an interest in has oil pressure similar to most others off the VW production line., nothing more.
Barum's biggest mistake was asking for an engine back rather than the car itself, where the oil pressure should have been checked on a proper gauge.
If I were a betting man I'd lay money on there not even being an oil pressure issue in the first place, with the actual fault being the sensor reporting that there is.
Be aware that ingestion of aluminium using cooking pots ect in the 1960's and 70's has possibly got links to Dementia and Alzheimer's, cooking foods which are acidic ie most fruits and tomatoes slowly dissolve the aluminium. Releasing micro particles of aluminium and blowing them around with an airline after blasting might be an issue. just a thought google it. b.t.y. I use cast iron, copper or stainless steel cooking equipment.
Never ever, EVER tell a customer you will keep something forever - because they may well hold you to that.
I am not in the trade, but I remember garages I used giving between 30 and 90 days; although one had a 7 day storage, and after that you had to pay for the storage at a penalty rate.
One mechanic neighbour doing classic car rebuilds had a Frogeye Sprite abandoned with him for over 10 YEARS; ownership of the car went to court, and I believe he eventually got to keep the car, but obviously, he had rebuilt and stored that car for a long time with no payment from the guy who brought it in, back in the early 1980s.
Have been thinking about the golf engine with low oil pressure at idle... what is odd about it?
first is the 1800 head on the 2000 block, and if its an 8 valve then it is probably an early mark, perhaps mark 2.
This reminds me of a problem I had with my 1987 gti. probably unrelated but at about 70k miles. in 1998 I did an oil flush,,, next thing I know it had bottom end rattle. This was very temporary but caused by loose carbon material restricting the oil pickup strainer, dropped sump cleaned it all and all was ok.
This made me think of another potential problem that could occur if all tolerances tight.. what is special about idle condition, first, the intake manifold is under lots of vacuum, and by connection to the crankcase breather, then the crankcase pressure could be also pulled down as well, this will reduce oil pressure, by a similar amount. particularly if almost zero piston ring blowby!.
To test this, I would run engine, hook up oil pressure guage,, read pressure at idle, then remove the oil filler cap! if oil pressre goes up at same revs then you have an answer. Possible problems with breather system,
Has low oil viscosity been discounted, eg bad injectors, fuel in the oil?
To be brutally honest £210 + vat is fuck all in this day and age. Now if it was £2100 + vat is something else and I can understand he'd be a bit piss off. But £210 + vat come on really 🤔
You're saying one thing about being stricter, but then the exceptions keep getting added as qualifiers... It IS out of warranty, he obviously doesn't need the engine, and is looking to get something from you which you have encouraged by not charging for the work already done.
Now with further work likely needing to be done in future, you're already operating from a poor position (unless you plan to sell the parts for recovery). Have the owner pay your current bill BEFORE proceeding, or you buy the engine and sell it to another client on his behalf, splitting proceeds after your FULL expenses are recovered.
There will always be customers who want something for nothing .
As I said in my previous comments , I built a test bed to run the finished engines to make sure everything is ok .
The big bonus is the ability to do an initial bedding in of the rings .
Many people, including garages , seem unaware of the need for an initial bedding in at various speeds .
It solved all customer issues, as they can witness their own engine running.
Regarding your new vapour blaster , fantastic finish , but I stopped doing it because of grit residue still in the oil galleries being very difficult to remove . Ended up with a couple of engine / bearing failures.
Really enjoy the channel.
Really enjoy the channel , keep up the great work .
This is the old story of "a little bit of knowledge is dangerous," and "making assumptions."
We've all done it, but you would expect most people to grow up. I doubt this guy will start anything. He'll pay the bill and collect it next week
Slightly unreasonable 😮 ???
Start charging like a lawyer, put money in a trust before work starts.
Lee if you value your customers, you would not publicly humiliate them by giving a one-sided monlogue like this about them on youTube. 35,000 people have seen this already - that's a football stadium. Have you stopped for a moment and thought about how you'd feel if somebody was doing this about you, with no right of reply ? At best they'll be upset/offended, you could be exposed to legal action or you may encounter somebody nasty who will take it even further. We don't know who was right or wrong here as we've only had one side of the story. Furthermore, what we think is irrelevant. This is a private matter between you and your customer. Keep things professional and do not resort to messing with people's emotions/feelings.
I doubt the guy is lying. I'm pretty sure he's put two and two together and made five. He's put in another engine and fixed the issue, therefore the only possible issue is that the old engine is faulty. He has not taken into account a dozen other parts, sensors, connectors and incorrect workmanship or maintenance.
If you contrast Lee's attitude, of not assuming anything, taking responsibility for a job out of warranty as a favour, checking carefully, having it double checked then triple checked and carefully and laboriously detailing all the measurements and keeping the customer informed....
.....to that of the customer, who without any proof, without any testing and without any reasonable suspicion is 100% certain there is an issue with the engine. Furthermore is willing to accuse and imply Lee as dishonest because of this misplaced certainty
Some people you just can't please.
Get the golf off him and swap the engine with his original one using all water and oil pumps and switches/sensors and then put him to shame .probably has a new rad in or so.running hotter, probably
Had similar prob when I fitted a 4age in my 1600 sport mk 2 30 year ago.
Looks like you might never get to the end of this one.
Hi Lee. Another way of getting traction with the algorithm is to get new people to comment and discuss things in the comments section. Encourage more dialogue in the comments and it might help grow the channel.
I agree with ashGTE, more comments the better.
Hello, random comment for Mr Al Gorithm...
Cordialement,
Low oil pressure? How low and when? At idle? 4 psi low? How much pressure at Idle and under load? What kind of oil? Stock oil pump? Is there a high flow pump available? All the bearings looked good so where is the evidence of a problem?
Can’t understand why I Get recommeded videos from this channel. I understand that dealing with customers can be a challenge sometimes. But this guy just whines and whinges. Why not show off the work you do instead? This puts me off on ordering anything from this shop.
Golf guy sounds like a complete wazzock. His expectation obviously was that you’d put your hands up and admit fault.. but you can’t do that as nothing seems to be wrong.
Absolutely precipitating down in North Manchester!
yes but that's not news lol
stick to your policy... Iff its goood its good.. This man is playing you.. Trying to get money back for a problem that does not exist. You dont work for free. Period.
Now for sale, A good rebuild golf engine soon? lol
His problem is proababy a bad pump, gage or oil sensor.. or he is using the wrong api oil..
Key point of my previous comment about golf engine. At idle, engine pulls manifold vacuum and if crankcase breather connects downstream of throttle body, then crankcase will also be vacuumed , which will reduce oil pressure, particular if all ring tolerances are very good!!. remove oil filler cap and see what happens to oil pressure.
Did this person show you proof that this engine had lower oil pressure, or are you taking him at his word?
All dimensions within tolerances, determination it is not a parts, machining or assembly issue. Customer is responsible for time.
Do you have said conditions for the customer to sign off prior to doing the work? You should.
Payment in full before item leaves the shop.
30 days (or your choice) without payment, start charging storage fees. 45 days (or your choice) without payment it is abandoned property and becomes yours to dispose of.
Lee, just remember that this is your business. Comments about being soft are perhaps misguided from someone who doesn't own a small business and is not subject to "word of mouth". I'm not saying roll over all the time but do consider the bigger picture and the power of "word of mouth". If the guy sells the engine who cares? IMHO it's irrelevant. Just focus on the oil pressure issue. It would be good to be able to measure or test the oil pressure with an external device/sensor.
Before you go much further with this Golf jobbie have a talk with your local Trading standards people, who you will as I have found will give you the rules re storage and the sale of stored goods limitations. Good luck and keep on building good motors.
mate, let him take the engine in its current state, wipe your hands of it, learn from it and don't let him stress you any further. £210 plus vat isn't worth the blood pressure. Stick to your warranty terms and don't strip engines well out of warranty under goodwill conditions on someone's word - might have been nothing wrong with it at all - misdiagnosed etc. Needed verification before pulling apart. No good deed goes unpunished.
Right, you shouldn’t be penalized if the work you did wasn’t the problem, but you guys are the pros and that’s why he came to you in the first place right? Surely you can find the real problem and not throw in the towel?
I'd also say "well done, sticking to your guns" except you're not hard enough.
It has to be a written and signed agreement, that the customer has to pay for inspection if you find nothing wrong. You can be nice to offer a discount rate, but if the customer wants to hackle and fight over the invoice, you then slap him/her with the full rate.
Doing this may very well cost you some customers, but it will soon be known that people can't squeeze your nuts to get free work from you. And the customers you lose on that front, weren't worth your time anyway.
The golf engine is out of warranty. You have no obligation.
Customer commissioned you to carry out inspection at cost to him if no issues were found.(Hopefully in writing)
You have honoured that agreement and even offered generous good will discounts.
He has no grounds to take you to court, if anything, you are the injured party.
You have told him the engine is ready for collection and payment is due.
Hold on to the engine until payment and storage charge is remitted and inform him that after 3 months the engine will be sold to cover unpaid debt.
Stick to your warranties. You wouldn't get your TV repaired by a manufacturer one day after warranty, whether you had used it or not.
Think you should have told him 2wks grace for him to decide what he wanted to do!then you would be charging storage fees as per terms an conditions! Please give him notice by e-mail or recorded delivery letter! Otherwise your goin to be stuck with engine occupy valuable space!
It's very reasonable for you, as the shop, to have the customer bring something back for inspection of a possible problem. You performed a proper inspection, at a discounted shop rate. Your inspection concluded there was no problem with this engine. You have kept up your end of the deal. The customer may not like or agree with your conclusions, that's his prerogative. But he is not keeping up his end. He should pay the amount due and move on.
I'm sure this has been mentioned before, but could it be the oil pump pressure Control/bypass valve getting stuck in the bore and causing the oil pressure to drop after it hits operating temperature or the spring could be failing after engine hits it's operating temperature also.
Stick a washer or two in it 😂
Sounds like another 'chancer' to me. If the engine oil pressure is down on that particular engine (I bet it isn't really) he most likeley just wanted it "sorted" so he could sell it on. It isn't even the original engine from his car most likelely. Stamps on the cases would stop a ringer getting returned, for a (so he hoped) free check over.
If someone thinks they can pull a fast one over someone, they WILL try to pull a fast one..
Not sure if engine rebuilders are able to test oil pressure on a bench. Wouldn't that confirm if its a problem or not? Had a 69 MG engine rebuilt years ago and it slipped a bearing in a day. Builder refused to fix it without charging more. Blamed it on the oil pump although he removed and installed it and wrote "rebuild engine" on the invoice. He relented on a legal letter. I think he tried it because I was a kid and knew nothing except how to accelerate my mouth back then. He was in the wrong then. Wish I'd used a reputable engine builder and not the corner mechanic.
Hey Lee do you have your measuring equipment calibrated? I'm a machinist and all of our blue chip customers insist on it. If you don't I would invest in a set of slip gauges so you can calibrate your micrometers .
It's out of warranty and you've done him a favour with discounting the hours. You've found nothing wrong with it so his next step must be to get an independent inspection as without that he doesn't have a leg to stand on.
If he doesn't want to do that then it's likely because he knows there's nothing wrong with the engine and he's just trying his luck. In that case, he either pays up or you sell the engine to recover your losses. This feels very much like the MGB sheet the problem was something external.
On a separate note, WTF is that BMW head doing leaning against a brick! If you must prop it up, use something softer than the head material to avoid damage
Why is there always someone trying to get over? Its people like that that made me close my business. Got tired of getting stiffed for quality work and paying taxes on invoices that weren't paid.
Lee the Golf bloke is just your usual noob, not wanting to pay.
Unfortunately your going to have to get customers to sign an agreement before any work commences.
Customers like him just make it more difficult for everyone else.
Also tell him about the storage charges that might hurray him up a bit.
Stick to your guns Lee.
This guy is up to something. Why buy and put in a new engine if you are getting the old one rebuilt? and conversely why get the old one rebuilt if you have the money for a new one?
Follow the guidance you've received from people experienced with this type of engine, check out the components that may be suspect in these engines and get a engineers report.
Don't give the engine back unless he pays. Charge him for storage.