Wake up babe, Aeon of Horus is talking about Fate Real talk, I’d love to see an extensive video from you comparing and contrasting Index and Type-Moon lore. There’s a lot of interesting parallels since Nasu and Kamachi pulled from similar occult concepts.
As a fan of both, I'm very happy to see you talking about something like this. Admittedly I'm way deeper down the Type-Moon rabbit hole than the Toaru one, having been diving into the obscure parts of Nasuverse lore like Notes, Prelude, and Talk since years ago (in fact, though Fate was my introduction to Type-Moon, the thing that made me fall in love with TM wasn't Fate, but rather Tsukihime), whereas my Toaru LN journey is kind of stuck halfway through NT05 at the moment (and as far as manga goes I have only read Dark Matter), but still, very happy to see a crossover video between these great behemoths of fantastic storytelling. I don't think Shirou gets as much hate as he used to, thankfully, and I think the biggest contributers to that are the Heaven's Feel and Oath Under Snow movies respectively, both of which show timelines where he's forced to discard his "save everyone" ideals in favor of a "save the one closest to me, even if it makes the world my enemy" approach, and seeing how he reacts in those situations has helped many anime onlies get a better understanding of him than just F/sn 2006 and the ufotable UBW gave them (even if it's still a far cry from what you get by reading the F/sn and F/ha visual novels). Granted, there are still some more casual fans, such as the "Fate/Zero only" people, who still hate on him, but for the most part the Shirou hate seems to largely be a thing of the past in my experience. Or maybe I've just been lucky enough to not run into any haters lately, idk. Touma, on the other hand, still gets way too much disrespect from the anime onlies. Sometimes it feels like way too many people only like Accel and Misaka and don't even give Touma a chance, and to be honest, given the failings of the Index adaptation, I don't really blame them. He's much better in the novels (and I'm fully aware that I have yet to even get to many of his best moments, I've heard NT09 in particular is supposed to bring some great Touma development so looking forward to that), but for anime onlies, basically the only reasons they have to like Touma are "fukou da" and "gender equality" memes, without which there's very little to differentiate him from any other shounen protagonist. Hopefully that changes at some point, would love to see Touma get at least a little more respect from non-LN readers. Also, for being one of the three main protagonists of the series, how come no one ever talks about my boy Hamazura? While Touma's definitely the most overhated Toaru protag, if we're just talking "underrated" then I think Hamazura is a worthy competitor. Anyway, great video!
You are correct about NT9 giving Touma some much-needed character development, causing him to do the same thing with Othinus in NT10 as Emiya Shirou did with Sakura in Heaven's Feel -- that is, being willing to save that one person closest to them even at the cost of making the world their arch-nemesis for a time. True, the exact details are different, but you should get the idea....
If you know a bit of Japanese, when Shirou says "Just because you're correct doesn't mean you're right" you'd realize he says something similar, but it's worded differently. It's closer to "You're only being correct for the sake of being right". It's basically Shirou saying that Archer is desperately trying to prove himself right with logic while his heart is feeling differently.
On a deeper level "Just because you're correct doesn't mean that you're right" is a true statement. Everyone depending on location will have different opinions meaning in many cases there can be two correct answers only one correct answer will pass as true.
I feel that the main difference is that Touma saves others so those that he saved can be happy, while Shirou saves others so he can get the same happiness that he saw on Kiritsugu's face when he (Shirou) was saved from the fire. Both of them save others for selfish reasons. Touma selfishly saves everyone as if everyone is smiling at the end of the day, he can feel happy too. Shirou HAS to save as many as he can (Fate/UBW) or the one with greater importance (HF) because he cannot find any other sources of happiness without feeling crushed by the guilt. There was a scene in UBW that was cut from the anime during his date with Rin where in his internal monologue, he started berating himself for enjoying his time spent with Rin and Saber despite leaving so many people to die during the fire. Only by helping others can Shirou not feel guilty about being happy which is why he wants to be a hero. Touma saves others because that's "what anybody would do in that situation".
To be fair to Shirou, he does work all those issues out somewhat in each route. Even if in UBW and Fate he doesn't fully get rid of his urge to save others, he does learn to try and love himself in them. Shirou is a good character for sure.
@@orga7777Id argue his experience with Archer in UBW is a good middle ground for what happens to Shirou’s Philosophy from Fate and Heaven’s Feel. He gets a Reality Check, but the kind that can help him work out the flaws of his original mindset into something somewhat beneficial for both himself and others.
@@Mikoru- Bro her mockery and getting off of actively enraging shirou is what keeps shirou alive half the time. and me laughing my butt off as shirou tries not to strangle her to death.
I never got Shirou as a self insert character mainly due to the fact he has a personality that is twisted, it might look nice but it's still twisted beyond any help
Well he is a partial self insert as that's essentially the foundation for the eroge visual novel. There's a reason why the genders were flipped mid way through development after all. There are different levels to self insert characters, but if it's a decent written story then all of them should at least have some form of unique personality.
Shirou and Touma are a great example of how to create a good mc based on the hero's journey. Something that is missing in today's superhero stories. Yes, I'm talking about you Boku no hero.
Dude, I've thought Shirou and Touma are like brothers from another mother for years. Like, seriously, both of them are basically humans that aren't even recognized as Humans by the reality they live in-- and for both of them this is associated with their main "power". Imagine Breaker is stuck on Touma for... "Dragon Reasons", while for Shirou it's kind of the opposite-- (minor Fate lore explanation): Reality Marbles aren't normally possible for humans-- and not because of generic "The Protagonist is Biologically special for some reason", Shirou can. Instead, Reality Marbles are a power exclusive to Aliens, or lifeforms the Earth recognizes as Aliens: Shirou's classified as so fucking Mentally Insane the Earth doesn't even think he's native to the _FUCKING PLANET._ Neither one is viewed by their respective realities as either sane, or even human-- in shirou's case the two topics are directly interwoven, but for Touma, they're slightly more separated, but either way, they both are amazing explorations of the themes that they as characters are deconstructions of.
Honestly, both of them are not sane. Both is reborn in the fire, literally and figuratively for shirou and figuratively for touma during deep blood arc. Both had almost instinctive desire to help people around them and have been lampshaded by other character as being crazy due to it (iirc by rin and leiviana respectively). Their respective power are also born/attached itself due to their inhumane characteristic. To me the best way to describe shirou is a humanoid sword. And the best way to describe touma is the most humane inhuman.
It's true that both Touma and Shirou have that hero mentality but the difference is that shirou will do bad things for the greater good if he has no choice or saving people has a excuse to end himself.
hm, I would have phrased their differences differently... Shirou have a severe case of Survivor Trauma, and have no qualms risking his own life because, in his own PoV, he shouldn't be alieve anyway... not when so many others died from the same incident and only he was brought back to life (people should stay dead when they are killed and all that, remember? he was literraly brought back from death from that tragedy while no one else was), so, if a tragedy occurs and someone has to die, it is only logical (for him) that the one who is already dead should be the one to die, rather than those who yet live. Touma, on the other hand, have no survival trauma for, in a way, he was the only "victim" in the incident that removed his memories. Rather, he is trying to rediscover himself, who he was/is/should-be, all the while protecting those he see hurt around him at the end of the day, both are putting themselves at risk for the sake of others (you know, like firefighters and thousands of First Attenders do every day around the world... I don't really understand how ppl find it so hard to accept that someone would risk their lives for strangers when we have millions of example irl of ppl doing just that), but for very different reasons. Yet, I guess that, in a way, they both are saving people because "they lost themselves", one having literally being brought back from death and the other losing his memories and identity
@@RandomGuy-ci9nt not quite. 1- he was 5 when the previous grail war happened, so it's natural that his memories would be fuzzy, considering the game states every character is 18+ 2- the entire thing was happening in an abandoned building over 10pm, before the Grail got destroyed, so Shirou was probably sleeping when his world went to hell. 3- he died that day. Kiritsugu used what energy remained in Avalon (Saber's scabbard) to literally bring Shirou from death, but he died that day. That's why his memories of the event are faulty; he tries to remember things he couldn't possibly have know because he was dead when they happened and what he could remember happened over a decade before, when he was 5 and most definitely confused from being woken up from sleep by a huge explosion; not because his memories were magically erased. As for the hero of justice thing, the very first thing he saw upon resurrection was Kiritsugu's face of sheer relief that he actually managed to save someone. Remember, the entire reason he went to the grail war was to save "everyone"; he learned the grail couldn't deliver his wish and tried to destroy it to save people from his own desires; just to have the grail explode and destroy an entire neighborhood anyway; and no matter how you look at it, this only happened because of Kiritsugu, and HE knows that. Kiritsugu is in utter despair and so mentally destroyed that his nemesis, seeing him looking for survivors, chose to relish in Kiritsugu's pain, despair and guilty rather than killing him. So, yes, when Kiritsugu managed to save even one person, even if he had to use a mythical artifact to bring a kid from the dead, he is showing so much relief that it marks Shirou. Well, that and clearly coming back from the dead isn't perfect, even when done by a mythical artifact. EVERYONE in the game, and I do mean everyone, comments on how Shirou is... broken... he doesn't act normal, he doesn't behave as a human should, and his pathological need to help others even at the cost of his own life is not "normal", but a side effect of his resurrection. Even before Shirou learns he did, indeed, die that night, he FEELS dead, as if he shouldn't be alieve when so many others died that night, and because he considers himself to be already dead, his survival instincts are messed up. How does one survives, if one is already dead? Btw, remember that badly translated scene where he says "people die when they are killed"? yeah, the original should be "people should stay dead if they die", which he is commenting after, having already learned he was resurrected, being asked why he was so unconcerned with the possibility of dieing to save another. It is pretty much a "I'm already dead, and should never have being brought back to life, so if I die, things would just be returning to how they should be in the first place. But there are people still alieve that I can keep from dieing while I still draw breath." Again, even with mythical magic, you can't perfectly bring someone back from the dead, there will always be something *wrong* with them. In Shirou that manifests with his utter disregard for his own life, while Kiritsugu's bliss at saving him give a goal to achieve to, even if he doesn't care what happens to himself.
@@marcelosilveira2276 I didn't say his powers were removed. Just mentioned he didn't have them. And I don't think most of his mentality come from him being dead? But I digress
@@RandomGuy-ci9nt his powers? sorry, I meant to say his memories. He did not lose his memories, he just tried to remember something that happened while he was dead and failed to. Oh, I suppose that in the Heaven's Fell's route he does suffer of memory loss as his identity is being slowly consumed by his prosthetic arm though, but that is one out of 3 routes
As a fan of the both series, and comparing these main characters PoV with the one of the spin off, I can say this. Shirou is more about the passion to be a hero, because we know very little about what he did prior the fifth war, and he wanted to be a hero not jut because he wants to save others as he got saved, but because he wants to feel saved by the action of saving someone. That's why he accepted to become a servant, and that's why he can kill if necessary to save someone. Touma is more complicated because while hirou probably won't get anymore info, in Index verse anyone can add a file on their storyline, but for what we saw, Touma is somehow traumatized by disgrace, but also became strong by it. He saves because he can't accept disgrace made by sheer malice, so he wants to save everyone, but can accept some unfortunate losses. At least until he lose his memories, so his mind became purified, he decided to save everyone in his way, and by expanding his horizons with the magic side, he simply decided to not have any malice to anyone, while doing what he can to get a happy end. Or at least it was like that until he fought his inner self and killed him. From that point, Kamijou lost like 90% of his self-preservation instinct and preffers to not involve people if that means endanger them, even if with enought numbers the situation can go from "almost impossible" to "actually safe", so I don't know if he has any idea of what is he trying to do, or if he is some LN away from another character development hell for the next arcs.
It absolutely drives me nuts that some people think Shirou will be a pure good guy that won't kill someone. The thing is, the ideal of heroism he inherited from Kiritsugu is very steeped into the concept of "Greater Good" aka "Kill 10 people to save 100 others". While Shirou did inherit it in a more pure form(save other people in general, to be more specific IIRC he wanted a "World where people I can see aren't crying") he shows many times that he WILL stray into the greater good territory. Most obviously shown when he encountered Shinji in...day 9? I forgot which day it was, but it's the "Bye Shinji" moment. I tighten my grip. There’s no hesitation. Just a little sympathy. It’s because Shinji wasn’t taught the basic rules of magi - that there’s no problem with killing other magi. Shirou was straight up about to snap Shinji's neck like a twig.
I have just read Chapter 3 of GT9 and right after I saw this video, it made my day a great victory, in fact I like this style of video that compares similar characters at the same time as different, in my opinion it even complements plus their strengths and interesting aspects of both. Also, thanks for the great video Aeon ;^)
@@AeonofHorusShirley do hero stuff because of his father dream he see this goal is noble and will give him freedom from The Hole in his heart his ideals are nothing but fantasy unlike him Touma do that because he believe the good in people even if they did horrible things there’s light inside them he doesn’t need Question or reason of why He doing that he do that because that is what he want
5:20 accusing emya shirou of being a male self insert is crazy, considering the original game would have Shirou be a girl, but pretty much the entire cast got gender swapped at some point, resulting in the configuration we got... IRC there was even a 2-episodes "anime" called Fate/Prototype about how the original game was going to be I'm not as well versed in Index lore (the sites I used to follow the manga kept dropping it, forcing me to search for new hosting sites until I somehow forgot about it for almost a decade and got completely out of the loop of whatever was happening) but, honestly, he gets beaten into a pulp in pretty much every arch of the first two seasons, and I don't see how that could be a self insert... I could see it if, despite all the beating, he was pretty much ok by the end of the arch, but that hospital got almost as much screen time as naruto's swing flashbacks
Thses 2 boys help out who they can dispute bogh being broken and having mind sets that can barely be called human in some cases. They deserve to be protected and looked after
ngl u putting shirous mentality in to good of a light bc the main thing i like about him is that his desire to help people came from when he saw kirisugu smile and he thought could i be that happy and then there was also the saviors guilt of walking past dying people and not trying to help them caused him to view his life as blatantly less but if u want to see a cool shirou ending look up "sparks liner high"
Watch any anime reviewer video essay about Index outside the fandom and you'll hear complaints about Touma. Look at online forums about the anime and you'll find criticism of Touma. In the Index fandom, most of us like him which is normal, but even some Railgun only fans don't like him which is kinda funny. As for Shirou, similar case except there's more of it as Fate UBW was more popular than Index in the West.
My Touma boy is more than just an anti-magic arm and a powerfull harem magent. Shiro is cool too. Both deserve better. At least we can recognize how they behave with other characters. Its ironic how touma tries to save index memory and ends up lossing his own. Then he lies to index to protect her feelings. Keep the loli safe, that's what a real man does.
I hope one day (copium for next year anniversary) Touma and Shirou would met each other officially and have a dinner together. Or atelast Touma meeting the FGO cast since Nasu dont want to touch FSN ever again in FGO. Imagine Touma as a Welfare 3* Servant.
@@4wheal Either Berserker or Assassin seeing that he doesn't really have any weapon whatsoever. Maybe Caster if they manage to summon Saint Germain Form seeing that was only once use. Berserker cause he uses his fist.
People who use plot armor argument usually doesn't understand that all character aside from background character had it. It's just very apparent when you write/adapt the story poorly. Character only die when they're needed to die, background character excluded. If you willy nilly kill main or even side character, it's easy for your reader to not form any emotional attachment to your character and that's usually bad thing if you need to do emotional scene.
Hey Aeon and everyone. How are you doing? I found Touma and the Index series to be way more enjoyable than the Fate series. I have tried a few times to watch the different Fate anime and I found that they were completely forgettable. I know that I have found a great series when: 1. I found a few episodes that after watching them, I can't stop thinking about them. 2. Finding a character or two that I can get attached to easily. 3. Is when because I found a few characters that I like, my imagination then starts moving to predict what could happen. A good example of this is when I saw Sogiita catch Touma in his arms, I imagined what it would look like for him to find out that Touma was back from Russia, and then for him to crash into Touma's classroom and then give him a big bear hug while saying, " my gutsy one you have come back, I am so glad." It would be too funny.
Yeah anime is not the best media in my opinion that is why me and many other runs away to light novel, if you want to understand fate and be enjoyable not confusing this is the setting. "The simplest analogy of the world system in Fate universe is imagine that the universe is running on PC OS, now Akasha is something like the BIOS or system32 of the universe and Counter Force (aka Servants) is like the firewall that protects the BIOS from being hacked or tampered. This analogy works as well to explain why mages use magic crests to pass down their magic to their descendant, for example the biggest difference between normal humans with mages is that mages have extra biological nerves called Magic Circuit. Now magic circuit works exactly like PC in sense that its the motherboard of mages, in a sense that mages write the spell (aka the programming code) onto their magic circuit so to activate their spell all they have to do is to run mana (or electricity in PC terms) through their magic circuit. Now following this logic mages pass down their spells by grafting their Magic Circuit (that already have their spells coded in it) after a lifetime of training and learning into their descendant body, just think of it as passing down USB filled with lifetime of knowledge from generation to generation. And each generation adds something to their family Magic Crest which is why the more ancient one family is the stronger their magic is. And because Magic Circuit is a real organ, passing it down is literally the same as donating your organ, which means there is a high risk of rejection if it's done to someone outside of your bloodline. Which is why all mages in Fate universe are more selfish than mages in Harry Potter universe, because ultimately they can only rely on their own family magecraft and each family has their own unique trait and specialize only in a single type of magecraft. The magic and world system in Fate universe is well fleshed out and is built on rock hard logic thats makes much more sense than the magic in Potterverse"
@@Raven675 Yeah. I know how you feel. I have been really enjoying getting into reading while listening to light novels. A good example of that is I have just recently finished reading the Kindle book version while listening to J Michael Tatum and brina Palencia narrate through Audible the first seven volumes of the spice and wolf light novels. They did a fantastic job and it was so much fun listening to them. The only kind of light novels that I have not been able to get into are the ones that are Isakai. I have tried two of them, and I just could not get into the story. I also downloaded a sample of the first volume of the Apothecary Diaries, which was great. One other really cool thing is that I found out that Lucy Christensen and Chris Patton are recording audiobook versions of the Fullmetal Panic series which is fantastic. Thank you so much for that explanation about the fate stay night series. I can understand how the anime might be really bad unfortunately, I don't have the equipment to be able to look at the game adaptation or visual novel adaptation of that and I'm currently unemployed so I'm going to have to wait on that.
They best boys and some of the best written characters in all media. Also characters that are the peak definition if broken. Touma had me binging just to get one of him in a puzzles and dragons game.
6:50 well the main difference between light novel and the visual novel is that you can play out different decision's in the visual novel and even after Kirei's gaslighting about running away is for coward's you still got a choise to eather participate or had your command spell's removed,and if you choose the second Saber and Rin are gonna dip emidetly because one has to quickly find a new master and the second had lost interest and thus Shirou left completely defencless against Illya and he get's a conclussion much worse than death with his head removed from the body and Illya casting a spell so he won't die unless his brain get's creshed............he's still feel pain from decapitation but he can't even lose counciousness and she takes him to her castle to play house with his head..........so in the end even if we say that it would be better for him to just stay in school Illya won't let him! So he doesn't even have a choise on a matter
Now that was a very interesting video. I actually had no idea people were bashing in such a way on these MC's or saying they were way to similar. I have only watched a couple versions of Fate Stay Night and I thought it was mid tier at best and just could not get into it. But the Hero Shirou really didn't seem like a cardboard cut-out or a carbon copy to Touma in the slightest. In fact I would say nothing could be further from the truth. Heck, you can draw parallels to several MC's in that fashion and many of them have similarities anyways. Most all heroes on average are similar so it is stupid to try to complain or point out why they are similar. That "is" what makes them heroes. For instance, I just finished another re-watch of Tokyo Ghoul series and Ken Kaneki is every bit like Touma and Shirou in wanting the best for others, self sacrificing, caring for other peoples' wants and desires and striving to become stronger to protect what is important. These are all qualities of what makes a person a real hero and makes us want to follow and emulate them. Not all Heroes are the same, but most have similar or several of the same defining characteristics. To many people have it good and forget how hard life can be, simply complaining or bashing stuff because they got nothing better to do but be that way. Acting like you are being forced to watch something is just immature and plain stupid. I say just move along, watch or read what you like and quit trying to piss in other people's Wheaties and ruin everyone else's fun. Just like with animation. People whine and complain about what they perceive as good or poor animation, instead of just being happy we get a story that is brought to life from novels or manga. Never enough and never can just be happy. Better get off my soap box, most people don't listen anyways lol. Great video and dang funny so keepem coming.
I mean, I went through a few of the common factors but its more than just that they wanna do generic good guy stuff. I'm talking about their saviour complex, which makes traditional superheroes look sane.
@@AeonofHorus I do agree with all your points, but I expanded a bit on my own thoughts due to your inspiration. I was talking about the other people , not you, who zealously or rabidly attack the characters for no real reason. I never meant in any way to take away from your thoughts or imply any different. If it seemed that in any way then my mistake.
WOW YOU SPOKE ABOUT MY 2 FAVOURITE ANIMES EVER FATE FRANCHISE BEING MY FIRST AND TOARU 2ND. TOUMA AND SHIROU ARE AMZING, I love how kiritsugu Emiya was a key character for Shirou chracter development in ubw.
Of course protagonists of animes won't work if you take out their inner monologue. Books are the only medium that allows deeper expansion on the hero then the limited time a film will allow.
If you continue comparing Toaru characters to their Type-Moon "counterparts": How about a comparison of Accelerator and Shiki Tohno? Shiki Tohno is actually quite similar to Accelerator in numerous ways. -He has forgotten his true familial background. -He nearly killed someone as a child due to a tragic accident in which he didn't understand what was going on. -He killed a girl without provocation but then ended up helping her in order to try to make things right. -He is an anti-hero who is willing to kill his opponents. -He has lots of cool lines. -He is a contrast to another, more well-known male protagonist in the same franchise as him. -He is inaccurately viewed as just being an edgy murderer by some people.
Great video Aeon of Horus! So what you’re saying is, the real difference between Shirou and Touma is Shirou would sleep with the Index/Railgun waifus after saving them? Gotcha
My man woke and chose to sit hard Facts. Also, its pretty funny when you think that both Shirou and Touma suffer identity crisis but one due to having no memories of past and one due to his memories and experiences.
@@JohnShepherd117 cmiiw... different from touma... shiro seems to be trying to save everyone or like all of humanity (after all he is after the title of hero or that his ideal)... While Touma tries to save the people in front of him and only in the location he is in (or the conflict in which he is involved) ~ of course Touma ultimate goal is to have normal life ~
@@alamtya9410 Shirou also wants to save everyone in front of him which can extend to humanity depending on his opponent but most of the time he tries to save everyone in front of him which can change since Shirou travels the world after the holy grail war
@@JohnShepherd117 what I mean is... Touma is still trying to save Kamijou Touma (himself) even though it destroys the ideal world (a world without conflict like Kiritsugu/Shiro wants) On the other hand, if it were Shiro... if he were in Touma position... When othinus offering ideal world... Shiro will not hesitate to kill himself for the ideal world created by Othinus
Another example If Touma was offered by Alaya to become a counter guardian... Touma will firmly reject it (this is similar to the magic god high priest's offer)
Weird seeing aeon do a video that is not toaru still great video Touma=you not living your life right Shiro= just because your right doesn't mean your correct
😂Aeon is 100% aware toaru fans are also fate fans for the most part, at least LN readers are. Cant deny it so so easy to jump from 1 franchise to the other and feel at home
As fate fan and fan of index too I really suggest u read the vn if u have time naturally if u don’t eh it happens, but if u want to read it stay night and than the sequel of called hollow ataraxia are good way to start, and it’s fun cause index and fate they have a lot of overlap, and I will say summarized cause I have ranted over this point a lot but: in terms of adaptation, of the og vn ironically deen isn’t even a full adaptation because there were plans for it to be a 4th route problems is development problem and it was cut to be just the fate route with a few extra pieces in, unlimited blade works as far as adaptation is decent but flanderizes some characters specifically rin, and the heaven’s feel movies are horrible adaptations straight up cause not only did they change the entire atmosphere of the route but also put in fluff that wastes time and it butchers it so bad I woudnt suggest u watch it till you read the vn cause it spoils the important moments and cuts out so many moments for characters important for the route as I would describe the movies are a barebones skeleton of a plot plated in gold, but yeh if u wanna read u gonna be surprised by the differences u will notice. But yeh great video keep it up funny index man XD
is there actually ppl who really hate them? i believe most are just memeing Unpopular opinion: i'd still force ppl to watch deen fate, it shows a lot about Shirou's trauma and important info on Avalon.
Shirou & Touma got plenty of criticism when their animes first aired, and still do occasionally to this day. Its not hard to find it on forums, blogs or video essays.
@@AeonofHorus yeah, i'd just assumed most ppl are just riding the meme and don't actually have an opinion of their own. Kinda like the SAO hate (admittedly that show is a huge waste of potential tho).
Touma and Shirou are definitely two of my favourite main characters of all time. While their ideals may be deeply flawed and too idealist, I do not see that as a bad thing. As living beings, we all have our own flaws and weaknesses it's what makes us human after all. Touma and Shirou not wanting to kill is not cringe or dumb as Goku (one of the most beloved characters in Japanese media) was going to spare Frieza (a genocide nutjob who had the blood of billions of lives on his hands) and people praise his character for it. Touma and Shiou just see the value of life much more than most due to the hell they went through as kids. Both of them know the world is cruel and full of evil and tested beings, but both still try with all their might to create happiness for those around them. And no, just because Touma and Shioru are nice guys does not mean they are pushovers. They will kick your ass to the point of you wish you were dead far worst than any edgy character could ever do if you push their buttons too much (they always say barware the nice ones). My love goes out to these two wonderful lads if only our world had more people like these two around. Thank you for making this vid, Aeon and well done to 26000 subscribers!
another banger many laughs btw you gotta watch what you're doing my guy, if you see the types of vids being recommended to me on the right you've done something real wrong real real wrong but in all seriousness, whats up with the budget meme why does it still persist so thought this was disproven 10 yrs ago, not including movies like REDLINE or Akira which disprove it as well but were made much much lnger ago
Shirou in the anime is pretty trash. However if you read the LN or visual novels, Shirou is pretty much tragic along with his alternate versions of himself. Their fates are tragic. Touma by the time of the Othinus arc and especially Coronzon and maybe Kamijou arc. Touma got mentally tortured and almost committed suicide after Othinus shows him the Omega World where everyone is alive and happy including the people he failed to saved. Also by the time NT, Touma after his encounter with Fiamma has a totally different view point of trusting people. He’s not going to be this naive and see if their worth trusting. Touma definitively has crossed the dark hero arc and made us related. I bet in GT, Touma will go through more. Aeon, bro don’t remind of SW memes. As a big fan of SW, I read the novels since I’m a EU fan. Bro I can’t stand the memes when people forget Anakin’s backstory and how he grew up. Also his time in the Jedi Order before AOTC was pretty worse. Anakin after turning into Vader and the mental state he went through for 20 years and torture Sidious put him through after his failure on Mustafar, the chosen one deserved better. All these characters should be respected as heroes. People only care about watching on screen instead of reading a FREAKIN BOOK OR NOVEL.
Shirou in the ORIGINAL FSN is pretty mediocre (not bad) but he is pretty good in UBW. The reason he isn't great in the original DEEN anime is because the Fate Route is Shirou at his most annoying.
@@orga7777no, that's just you man. A lot of ppl like Fate route Shirou and his relationship with Artoria. It just thst the anime sucks ass. Ask any person who's been apart of the fate community for a decade and they'll say the same thing Only anime onlies hate Fate!Shirou cause they don't have the context or they watched Zero and liked it cause it was edgy
@@whateverwhatever4476I have the context completely as I have played the VN, and even before the UBW anime came out, the community was pretty much overall in agreement that the Fate Route was always the least popular of the three by a long mile due to the same reasons I listed. I don't think the Fate Route is BAD, but when it comes to an anime adaptation, it would easily be the least interesting of the three because there is just WAY more down time compared to UBW and HF, and that is just not going to be as visually stimulating or as interesting to most people.
@@AeonofHorusAll of Shirou’s bad ends are canon to FSN so Shirou dies way more than he lives. That being said, Touma’s death count surpasses most if not all anime characters when NT9 happened lol
One also has to define unlucky. If you die, you stop being unlucky. While Shirou does have multiple times he can die in a route and your basically supposed to think like Shirou to get the True Ends of each route, they are at the end of the day different routes that you reset if you get a Bad End and keep going for the True End which is completely removed from the True End. TOUMA REMEMBERS DYING IN ALL THOSE ALTERNATE TIMELINES. Not to mention one is objectively more athletic and put together then the other. Shirou has a job, useful skills that would let him apply for a trade of any kind as just a side business, dude wanted to become a lawyer after high school which is shown in Fate/Hollow Ataraxia and on the daily isn't beset by misfortune because of a arm that destroys blessings and curses. Yeah Touma's got cardio but he's not vaulting over buildings with ease and has a special power that's whole point is to make stuff stronger. Yeah, Touma is way more unlucky.
I often compare Touma to Superman. They both represent an archetype which seems to inevitably divide the audience between those who find a moral paragon too simplistic and unrealistic with those who adamantly love their earnest idealism. Though that's reductive for both Clark and Touma characters, it is usually the sticking point brought up in media discussions. While Emiya Shirou is honestly his own thing. Fate analyzes and deconstructs his character in quite a bit of detail to reach nuanced conclusions about the nature of heroism, sacrafice, and altruism that taking him at face value as the story's hero is doing e pretty big disservice to the work as a whole.
@@AeonofHorus on the bit of seeing every character as a self insert character, I’ve encountered some fool who actually unironically has that mindset… I wish to take that time back.
its all because of the popularity of garbage like watchmen or game of thrones that the American audiences hate these kinds of characters. the fact that people think purely good heroes are boring says a lot about our society.
I absolutely love Touma, but Shirou absolutely annoys me 80% of the time because of his warped approach while Touma's feels more genuine. No I don't see them as twins, though I love your take on this crossover topic.
Both of them are entirely effed up in the head but the respective series took different approach to it. Shirou mental struggle are the forefront of fate novel, we follow his inner struggle as he learn to be human focusing on shirou ideal for example. Meanwhile, touma are liars and an unreliable narrator. The novel prefer to see his struggle to find way to help other rather than focusing on touma himself. He's the only (mostly) static character in an otherwise vibrant (well bleak) world which makes the contrast apparent when the novel feature someone else story instead. And i am not saying having static character is bad. Usually static character is bad because they're monotone, you'd get bored of them quickly but touma is done well despite being static because his position always change in accordance to who he's currently with/fight against (fiamma wish for salvation is due to him believing he's special, touma say that he's unneeded. Vento wish to wipe technology due to her brother dead, touma say that his brother doesn't want that, and other example) like a chameleon changing their skin colour. But you see... Normal people doesn't change their position at the drop of a hat... Most people become stubborn when their view is challenged for a reason, to be so readily accept everything is very bizare. There's other tick that bust him out as very inhumane like his tendency to help other is not due to altruistic desire but because to him 'it is something anyone else would do' or 'normal'.
Really sad some fans don’t like shiro and touma cause think overpowered with no development or backstory keep comparing overpowered bland characters from other animes to them
Even with what Ufotable cut from the VN Shirou is still a better character with development than many popular and well received series and their MCs, including his dad. His main "issue" is that he is WEAK at the start with seemingly every character clowning on him for one reason or another, many times without even being in the right. Oh Archer said some bs that make Shirou look stupid? He is totally right, even if what he said is complete bullshit. The fact that people love Saber in Zero and then go in UBW and hate Shirou when they are almost the same, with Saber being worse(because her backstory as a king and her character in Zero just doesnt make sense) makes no sense until you realize that Saber has cool moments. It's just people looking for rule of cool and seeing just a ginger weakling that causes them to dislike him. Hell even in Deen his character can be understood, although Deen has more issues than just Shirou not being cool early on.
5:03 I am sorry I need to correct this cause idk wtf are you talking about Gilgamesh goal is to bring humanity back on track He sees so many people who do nothing and is disgusted by modern humanity lack of will and porpouse And so as the king whose job is to watch over humanity he decided to cause a worldwide disaster and rebuild humanity properly with the people who were strong enough to survive If gilgamesh wanted to be immortal he woulda done so whenever he wanted he has an item that can make him immortal
In the legend of Gilgamesh, i.e. his lore, he wants to become immortal... What would happen to those who would oppose his rule/watching over humanity? He's shown to kill those who oppose him. So what I said was accurate.
@@AeonofHorus in the epic of gilgamesh he gave up on the desire to be immortal when he ended his journey A journey that only started after enkidu's death anyway You say it like its a part of gilgamesh's character when its just a passing desire he once had
@@AeonofHorusYeah, Gil gave that up on immortality after the serpent took the herb. He became a very different King after that, too, which we see in the Babylonia section in Grand Order.
When I first watched Stay Night I freakin hated Shirou . I hated him because he always makes stupid decisions that gets himself in danger and causes troubles to people around him . He tries to protect Saber but taking the hit himself but as a master her shouldn’t be fighting a servant . Servants are suppose to fight each other and he is causing Saber trouble When he gets into dangerous situations also caused Rin a lot of trouble because Rin have to save him He gets more relatable in Unlimited Blade Works though. But the original Stay Night … Oh Geez can’t stand him
If he hadn't taken the hit against Berserker, Saber would have died and him and Rin would have followed right after. The VN even has a bad end to show what happens if he doesn't do anything. There's only one time where Rin needed to save him and it's when he was kidnapped by Illya who had shown no intent to act as a Master during the day the several times he talked to her, so it's understandable he didn't see it coming. Also, he does end up being a key factor to kill Berserker during their fight.
I really don’t like it when someone calls these guys too nice some people like the nice guy, hell I like the nice guy but just because there simply nice guys dozen’s mean they have no depth or bland as that heroic natures can already double as a flaw if they’re used to being that guy who’s letting everyone relying on them and not letting their friend help with the load like Superman or Harry Potter
Oh god you haven’t played the visual novels? Careful roaming the coMments and everyone’s watch order. As a fate fan read them and watch fate/Zero after but if you’re going pure anime it’s okay but I’d suggest to watch fate Zero first and then watch the Deen anime anime UBW and top it all off with the films. Or skip deen if the announce a certain anime this week.
Tbh, if you go in through F/Zero first, you would be spoiled about the Grail being corrupted. The narration in FSN itself is way diferrent than F/Zero because it's made by diferrent people (FSN by Nasu and F/Zero by Gen Urobochi). So technically, watching any of the FSN anime first is ok (for UBW and Fate route atleast, since HF movies are just straight up not giving you any lore that gives life to the route). But yeah, it's ok to watch F/Zero first if it's your first time.
@@adamharith782 I mean in all honesty each work spoils each other. We’d know Kiriya failed, Rin is parentless, Kotomine is alive, and why this Illya girl has a grudge against Shirou.
From a LN ane VN perspective for sure they arent at least which is nice 🙌 just wish they werent from an anime perspective... Although in Shirou's case thank god UBW and HF are fairly popular so he gets less flak about it
VN reader of Fate Stay/Night here. I read everything i think shirou is boring and a gary stu. His inner thoughts about becoming a hero of justice and his survivors guilt are not saving his character. The VN of Fate has sex scence in it, but it is not hentai.
Shirou is a pretty damn broken person. He serves his role well of being defined by his emptiness and how he changes across the routes. Shirou's role can be seen as the three stages of man.
@@AeonofHorus It has. He has flaws but these are simply not really relatable or realistic. That every girl falls for him for some reason makes it not better. Saber and Rin are more intresting than him. I think the entire VN would be better if rin would be sabers master and shirou was not part of the story or got killed by lancer at the start.
@@uziel1447 Not every character has to be relatable in order to considered a good character after all people love Gilgamesh and Kiritsugu despite them not being relatable.
Be like me then. Don't watch the anime (atleast the whole full series) but knows all about it through FGO and some reading through Wiki or watching videos. Yeah, I never fully watch Fate series fully, but my Type/Moon lore knowledge is pretty ok.
Subscribe if you'd like to see more anime crossover videos like this and to learn more about Touma & the Toaru franchise!
You should add Shiro from Date A Live so that there can be three heroes.
Crossing Void. That's a great crossover series.
Typical, You spiteful Hypocritical Rin Tohsaka and UBW fans just made a video to dump on the 2006 Deen Anime!
Touma when he finds out people hate him in a completely different universe:
SUCH MISFORTUNE!
Touma's self-deprecating ass : Eh. Sounds about right.
Both of these are correct statements.
Aleister when he finds out that there are people in the Pure World that hates Touma: hmm, maybe I should just abandon my Plan.
Wake up babe, Aeon of Horus is talking about Fate
Real talk, I’d love to see an extensive video from you comparing and contrasting Index and Type-Moon lore. There’s a lot of interesting parallels since Nasu and Kamachi pulled from similar occult concepts.
If there is enough demand for that I'd consider it
Yes please do a extensive video on this topic
I support this idea 100%
As a fan of both, I'm very happy to see you talking about something like this. Admittedly I'm way deeper down the Type-Moon rabbit hole than the Toaru one, having been diving into the obscure parts of Nasuverse lore like Notes, Prelude, and Talk since years ago (in fact, though Fate was my introduction to Type-Moon, the thing that made me fall in love with TM wasn't Fate, but rather Tsukihime), whereas my Toaru LN journey is kind of stuck halfway through NT05 at the moment (and as far as manga goes I have only read Dark Matter), but still, very happy to see a crossover video between these great behemoths of fantastic storytelling.
I don't think Shirou gets as much hate as he used to, thankfully, and I think the biggest contributers to that are the Heaven's Feel and Oath Under Snow movies respectively, both of which show timelines where he's forced to discard his "save everyone" ideals in favor of a "save the one closest to me, even if it makes the world my enemy" approach, and seeing how he reacts in those situations has helped many anime onlies get a better understanding of him than just F/sn 2006 and the ufotable UBW gave them (even if it's still a far cry from what you get by reading the F/sn and F/ha visual novels). Granted, there are still some more casual fans, such as the "Fate/Zero only" people, who still hate on him, but for the most part the Shirou hate seems to largely be a thing of the past in my experience. Or maybe I've just been lucky enough to not run into any haters lately, idk.
Touma, on the other hand, still gets way too much disrespect from the anime onlies. Sometimes it feels like way too many people only like Accel and Misaka and don't even give Touma a chance, and to be honest, given the failings of the Index adaptation, I don't really blame them. He's much better in the novels (and I'm fully aware that I have yet to even get to many of his best moments, I've heard NT09 in particular is supposed to bring some great Touma development so looking forward to that), but for anime onlies, basically the only reasons they have to like Touma are "fukou da" and "gender equality" memes, without which there's very little to differentiate him from any other shounen protagonist. Hopefully that changes at some point, would love to see Touma get at least a little more respect from non-LN readers. Also, for being one of the three main protagonists of the series, how come no one ever talks about my boy Hamazura? While Touma's definitely the most overhated Toaru protag, if we're just talking "underrated" then I think Hamazura is a worthy competitor.
Anyway, great video!
You are correct about NT9 giving Touma some much-needed character development, causing him to do the same thing with Othinus in NT10 as Emiya Shirou did with Sakura in Heaven's Feel -- that is, being willing to save that one person closest to them even at the cost of making the world their arch-nemesis for a time. True, the exact details are different, but you should get the idea....
Thank you! Definitely try get to NT9, without spoiling too much Touma also has to go against his ideals to make a selfish decision for his own benefit
If you know a bit of Japanese, when Shirou says "Just because you're correct doesn't mean you're right" you'd realize he says something similar, but it's worded differently. It's closer to "You're only being correct for the sake of being right".
It's basically Shirou saying that Archer is desperately trying to prove himself right with logic while his heart is feeling differently.
People really just like to look down on Shirou's ideal cause they want to be edgy
Tbh rhe only bit of ravvit hole I've seen is the geand
The Grand Unified Theory where it's basically Evangelion
On a deeper level "Just because you're correct doesn't mean that you're right" is a true statement. Everyone depending on location will have different opinions meaning in many cases there can be two correct answers only one correct answer will pass as true.
Really I always saw it as logically your right moraly your worng
@@samuraibear5102 for real that how i took it
I feel that the main difference is that Touma saves others so those that he saved can be happy, while Shirou saves others so he can get the same happiness that he saw on Kiritsugu's face when he (Shirou) was saved from the fire.
Both of them save others for selfish reasons. Touma selfishly saves everyone as if everyone is smiling at the end of the day, he can feel happy too.
Shirou HAS to save as many as he can (Fate/UBW) or the one with greater importance (HF) because he cannot find any other sources of happiness without feeling crushed by the guilt. There was a scene in UBW that was cut from the anime during his date with Rin where in his internal monologue, he started berating himself for enjoying his time spent with Rin and Saber despite leaving so many people to die during the fire.
Only by helping others can Shirou not feel guilty about being happy which is why he wants to be a hero. Touma saves others because that's "what anybody would do in that situation".
To be fair to Shirou, he does work all those issues out somewhat in each route. Even if in UBW and Fate he doesn't fully get rid of his urge to save others, he does learn to try and love himself in them. Shirou is a good character for sure.
@@orga7777Id argue his experience with Archer in UBW is a good middle ground for what happens to Shirou’s Philosophy from Fate and Heaven’s Feel.
He gets a Reality Check, but the kind that can help him work out the flaws of his original mindset into something somewhat beneficial for both himself and others.
shirou in the visual novel is one grumpy guy and i love when rin decides to see just how far she can push his self control.
how did that turn out? lol
@@Mikoru- Bro her mockery and getting off of actively enraging shirou is what keeps shirou alive half the time. and me laughing my butt off as shirou tries not to strangle her to death.
You can easily see what Archer takes after Shirou.
Should have put Araragi in there, to complete the trio.
The don’t know where to start anime trio
I never got Shirou as a self insert character mainly due to the fact he has a personality that is twisted, it might look nice but it's still twisted beyond any help
Well he is a partial self insert as that's essentially the foundation for the eroge visual novel. There's a reason why the genders were flipped mid way through development after all.
There are different levels to self insert characters, but if it's a decent written story then all of them should at least have some form of unique personality.
Shirou and Touma are a great example of how to create a good mc based on the hero's journey. Something that is missing in today's superhero stories. Yes, I'm talking about you Boku no hero.
Dude, I've thought Shirou and Touma are like brothers from another mother for years. Like, seriously, both of them are basically humans that aren't even recognized as Humans by the reality they live in-- and for both of them this is associated with their main "power". Imagine Breaker is stuck on Touma for... "Dragon Reasons", while for Shirou it's kind of the opposite-- (minor Fate lore explanation): Reality Marbles aren't normally possible for humans-- and not because of generic "The Protagonist is Biologically special for some reason", Shirou can. Instead, Reality Marbles are a power exclusive to Aliens, or lifeforms the Earth recognizes as Aliens:
Shirou's classified as so fucking Mentally Insane the Earth doesn't even think he's native to the _FUCKING PLANET._
Neither one is viewed by their respective realities as either sane, or even human-- in shirou's case the two topics are directly interwoven, but for Touma, they're slightly more separated, but either way, they both are amazing explorations of the themes that they as characters are deconstructions of.
Honestly, both of them are not sane. Both is reborn in the fire, literally and figuratively for shirou and figuratively for touma during deep blood arc. Both had almost instinctive desire to help people around them and have been lampshaded by other character as being crazy due to it (iirc by rin and leiviana respectively). Their respective power are also born/attached itself due to their inhumane characteristic.
To me the best way to describe shirou is a humanoid sword. And the best way to describe touma is the most humane inhuman.
It's true that both Touma and Shirou have that hero mentality but the difference is that shirou will do bad things for the greater good if he has no choice or saving people has a excuse to end himself.
hm, I would have phrased their differences differently...
Shirou have a severe case of Survivor Trauma, and have no qualms risking his own life because, in his own PoV, he shouldn't be alieve anyway... not when so many others died from the same incident and only he was brought back to life (people should stay dead when they are killed and all that, remember? he was literraly brought back from death from that tragedy while no one else was), so, if a tragedy occurs and someone has to die, it is only logical (for him) that the one who is already dead should be the one to die, rather than those who yet live.
Touma, on the other hand, have no survival trauma for, in a way, he was the only "victim" in the incident that removed his memories. Rather, he is trying to rediscover himself, who he was/is/should-be, all the while protecting those he see hurt around him
at the end of the day, both are putting themselves at risk for the sake of others (you know, like firefighters and thousands of First Attenders do every day around the world... I don't really understand how ppl find it so hard to accept that someone would risk their lives for strangers when we have millions of example irl of ppl doing just that), but for very different reasons.
Yet, I guess that, in a way, they both are saving people because "they lost themselves", one having literally being brought back from death and the other losing his memories and identity
Didn't shirou loss him memory and identity to isn't the whole identity of a hero of justice thing come from
@@RandomGuy-ci9nt not quite.
1- he was 5 when the previous grail war happened, so it's natural that his memories would be fuzzy, considering the game states every character is 18+
2- the entire thing was happening in an abandoned building over 10pm, before the Grail got destroyed, so Shirou was probably sleeping when his world went to hell.
3- he died that day. Kiritsugu used what energy remained in Avalon (Saber's scabbard) to literally bring Shirou from death, but he died that day.
That's why his memories of the event are faulty; he tries to remember things he couldn't possibly have know because he was dead when they happened and what he could remember happened over a decade before, when he was 5 and most definitely confused from being woken up from sleep by a huge explosion; not because his memories were magically erased.
As for the hero of justice thing, the very first thing he saw upon resurrection was Kiritsugu's face of sheer relief that he actually managed to save someone. Remember, the entire reason he went to the grail war was to save "everyone"; he learned the grail couldn't deliver his wish and tried to destroy it to save people from his own desires; just to have the grail explode and destroy an entire neighborhood anyway; and no matter how you look at it, this only happened because of Kiritsugu, and HE knows that. Kiritsugu is in utter despair and so mentally destroyed that his nemesis, seeing him looking for survivors, chose to relish in Kiritsugu's pain, despair and guilty rather than killing him. So, yes, when Kiritsugu managed to save even one person, even if he had to use a mythical artifact to bring a kid from the dead, he is showing so much relief that it marks Shirou.
Well, that and clearly coming back from the dead isn't perfect, even when done by a mythical artifact. EVERYONE in the game, and I do mean everyone, comments on how Shirou is... broken... he doesn't act normal, he doesn't behave as a human should, and his pathological need to help others even at the cost of his own life is not "normal", but a side effect of his resurrection. Even before Shirou learns he did, indeed, die that night, he FEELS dead, as if he shouldn't be alieve when so many others died that night, and because he considers himself to be already dead, his survival instincts are messed up. How does one survives, if one is already dead?
Btw, remember that badly translated scene where he says "people die when they are killed"? yeah, the original should be "people should stay dead if they die", which he is commenting after, having already learned he was resurrected, being asked why he was so unconcerned with the possibility of dieing to save another. It is pretty much a "I'm already dead, and should never have being brought back to life, so if I die, things would just be returning to how they should be in the first place. But there are people still alieve that I can keep from dieing while I still draw breath." Again, even with mythical magic, you can't perfectly bring someone back from the dead, there will always be something *wrong* with them. In Shirou that manifests with his utter disregard for his own life, while Kiritsugu's bliss at saving him give a goal to achieve to, even if he doesn't care what happens to himself.
@@marcelosilveira2276
I didn't say his powers were removed.
Just mentioned he didn't have them.
And I don't think most of his mentality come from him being dead?
But I digress
@@RandomGuy-ci9nt his powers? sorry, I meant to say his memories. He did not lose his memories, he just tried to remember something that happened while he was dead and failed to.
Oh, I suppose that in the Heaven's Fell's route he does suffer of memory loss as his identity is being slowly consumed by his prosthetic arm though, but that is one out of 3 routes
As a fan of the both series, and comparing these main characters PoV with the one of the spin off, I can say this.
Shirou is more about the passion to be a hero, because we know very little about what he did prior the fifth war, and he wanted to be a hero not jut because he wants to save others as he got saved, but because he wants to feel saved by the action of saving someone. That's why he accepted to become a servant, and that's why he can kill if necessary to save someone.
Touma is more complicated because while hirou probably won't get anymore info, in Index verse anyone can add a file on their storyline, but for what we saw, Touma is somehow traumatized by disgrace, but also became strong by it. He saves because he can't accept disgrace made by sheer malice, so he wants to save everyone, but can accept some unfortunate losses. At least until he lose his memories, so his mind became purified, he decided to save everyone in his way, and by expanding his horizons with the magic side, he simply decided to not have any malice to anyone, while doing what he can to get a happy end. Or at least it was like that until he fought his inner self and killed him. From that point, Kamijou lost like 90% of his self-preservation instinct and preffers to not involve people if that means endanger them, even if with enought numbers the situation can go from "almost impossible" to "actually safe", so I don't know if he has any idea of what is he trying to do, or if he is some LN away from another character development hell for the next arcs.
It's a good video as always, and even if I don't understand shit about Fate, I'm 100% confident that you are right
It absolutely drives me nuts that some people think Shirou will be a pure good guy that won't kill someone.
The thing is, the ideal of heroism he inherited from Kiritsugu is very steeped into the concept of "Greater Good" aka "Kill 10 people to save 100 others". While Shirou did inherit it in a more pure form(save other people in general, to be more specific IIRC he wanted a "World where people I can see aren't crying") he shows many times that he WILL stray into the greater good territory. Most obviously shown when he encountered Shinji in...day 9? I forgot which day it was, but it's the "Bye Shinji" moment.
I tighten my grip.
There’s no hesitation.
Just a little sympathy.
It’s because Shinji wasn’t taught the basic rules of magi - that there’s no problem with killing other magi.
Shirou was straight up about to snap Shinji's neck like a twig.
I have just read Chapter 3 of GT9 and right after I saw this video, it made my day a great victory, in fact I like this style of video that compares similar characters at the same time as different, in my opinion it even complements plus their strengths and interesting aspects of both.
Also, thanks for the great video Aeon ;^)
Ikr, this video combined with the recent chapter 3 made this day so freaking good
My pleasure!
@@AeonofHorusShirley do hero stuff because of his father dream he see this goal is noble
and will give him freedom from The Hole in his heart his ideals are nothing but fantasy unlike him Touma do that because he believe the good in people even if they did horrible things there’s light inside them he doesn’t need Question or reason of why
He doing that he do that because that is what he want
5:20 accusing emya shirou of being a male self insert is crazy, considering the original game would have Shirou be a girl, but pretty much the entire cast got gender swapped at some point, resulting in the configuration we got... IRC there was even a 2-episodes "anime" called Fate/Prototype about how the original game was going to be
I'm not as well versed in Index lore (the sites I used to follow the manga kept dropping it, forcing me to search for new hosting sites until I somehow forgot about it for almost a decade and got completely out of the loop of whatever was happening) but, honestly, he gets beaten into a pulp in pretty much every arch of the first two seasons, and I don't see how that could be a self insert... I could see it if, despite all the beating, he was pretty much ok by the end of the arch, but that hospital got almost as much screen time as naruto's swing flashbacks
Imagine these two in a situation where the other is in need of help. They wouldn't god damn stop yelling at each other that they can handle it.
Thses 2 boys help out who they can dispute bogh being broken and having mind sets that can barely be called human in some cases.
They deserve to be protected and looked after
Maybe, it's because both of these characters solo your favourite verse.
great vid Aeon keep up the good work
Really enjoyed this video and I love the way its edited ❤
ngl u putting shirous mentality in to good of a light bc the main thing i like about him is that his desire to help people came from when he saw kirisugu smile and he thought could i be that happy and then there was also the saviors guilt of walking past dying people and not trying to help them caused him to view his life as blatantly less but if u want to see a cool shirou ending look up "sparks liner high"
I’ve never seen either of them get hate so this video is a nice insight. We here love bone of the sword man and wank arm Touman
Watch any anime reviewer video essay about Index outside the fandom and you'll hear complaints about Touma. Look at online forums about the anime and you'll find criticism of Touma. In the Index fandom, most of us like him which is normal, but even some Railgun only fans don't like him which is kinda funny.
As for Shirou, similar case except there's more of it as Fate UBW was more popular than Index in the West.
@@AeonofHorus Railgun fans hating on my boy? Nah bro now we gotta separate the fandom into cliques
My Touma boy is more than just an anti-magic arm and a powerfull harem magent. Shiro is cool too. Both deserve better.
At least we can recognize how they behave with other characters. Its ironic how touma tries to save index memory and ends up lossing his own. Then he lies to index to protect her feelings.
Keep the loli safe, that's what a real man does.
I hope one day (copium for next year anniversary) Touma and Shirou would met each other officially and have a dinner together. Or atelast Touma meeting the FGO cast since Nasu dont want to touch FSN ever again in FGO. Imagine Touma as a Welfare 3* Servant.
What class would you want Touma to have?
@@4wheal Either Berserker or Assassin seeing that he doesn't really have any weapon whatsoever. Maybe Caster if they manage to summon Saint Germain Form seeing that was only once use. Berserker cause he uses his fist.
Sadly, it's not possible
FGO is VERY strict when it comes to crossovers. Only crossovering with other type moon works like Garden of Sinners
i dont understand the plot armor argument, shirou has like a 100 death scenes and they're all pretty brutal
People who use plot armor argument usually doesn't understand that all character aside from background character had it.
It's just very apparent when you write/adapt the story poorly.
Character only die when they're needed to die, background character excluded. If you willy nilly kill main or even side character, it's easy for your reader to not form any emotional attachment to your character and that's usually bad thing if you need to do emotional scene.
Hey Aeon and everyone. How are you doing? I found Touma and the Index series to be way more enjoyable than the Fate series. I have tried a few times to watch the different Fate anime and I found that they were completely forgettable. I know that I have found a great series when: 1. I found a few episodes that after watching them, I can't stop thinking about them. 2. Finding a character or two that I can get attached to easily. 3. Is when because I found a few characters that I like, my imagination then starts moving to predict what could happen. A good example of this is when I saw Sogiita catch Touma in his arms, I imagined what it would look like for him to find out that Touma was back from Russia, and then for him to crash into Touma's classroom and then give him a big bear hug while saying, " my gutsy one you have come back, I am so glad." It would be too funny.
Hey nice to see you again, been a while 🥳i hope you been doing good
Yeah anime is not the best media in my opinion that is why me and many other runs away to light novel, if you want to understand fate and be enjoyable not confusing this is the setting.
"The simplest analogy of the world system in Fate universe is imagine that the universe is running on PC OS, now Akasha is something like the BIOS or system32 of the universe and Counter Force (aka Servants) is like the firewall that protects the BIOS from being hacked or tampered.
This analogy works as well to explain why mages use magic crests to pass down their magic to their descendant, for example the biggest difference between normal humans with mages is that mages have extra biological nerves called Magic Circuit. Now magic circuit works exactly like PC in sense that its the motherboard of mages, in a sense that mages write the spell (aka the programming code) onto their magic circuit so to activate their spell all they have to do is to run mana (or electricity in PC terms) through their magic circuit. Now following this logic mages pass down their spells by grafting their Magic Circuit (that already have their spells coded in it) after a lifetime of training and learning into their descendant body, just think of it as passing down USB filled with lifetime of knowledge from generation to generation. And each generation adds something to their family Magic Crest which is why the more ancient one family is the stronger their magic is. And because Magic Circuit is a real organ, passing it down is literally the same as donating your organ, which means there is a high risk of rejection if it's done to someone outside of your bloodline. Which is why all mages in Fate universe are more selfish than mages in Harry Potter universe, because ultimately they can only rely on their own family magecraft and each family has their own unique trait and specialize only in a single type of magecraft.
The magic and world system in Fate universe is well fleshed out and is built on rock hard logic thats makes much more sense than the magic in Potterverse"
@@pierocolombo2643 I have thanks. How are you?
@@clarkkentnaruto4322 all good here ty 🙌glad to hear that, im having so much fun this winter.
@@Raven675 Yeah. I know how you feel. I have been really enjoying getting into reading while listening to light novels. A good example of that is I have just recently finished reading the Kindle book version while listening to J Michael Tatum and brina Palencia narrate through Audible the first seven volumes of the spice and wolf light novels. They did a fantastic job and it was so much fun listening to them. The only kind of light novels that I have not been able to get into are the ones that are Isakai. I have tried two of them, and I just could not get into the story. I also downloaded a sample of the first volume of the Apothecary Diaries, which was great. One other really cool thing is that I found out that Lucy Christensen and Chris Patton are recording audiobook versions of the Fullmetal Panic series which is fantastic. Thank you so much for that explanation about the fate stay night series. I can understand how the anime might be really bad unfortunately, I don't have the equipment to be able to look at the game adaptation or visual novel adaptation of that and I'm currently unemployed so I'm going to have to wait on that.
Imagine aeon live-streaming fate
They best boys and some of the best written characters in all media. Also characters that are the peak definition if broken. Touma had me binging just to get one of him in a puzzles and dragons game.
I wonder if there actually is a Kirito in Akame Ga kill fanfic
There's most likely one.
Shiro once said : just bc you're right that doesnt mean you're right😂😂
I can't believe there is a video about my 2 favourite MC's. I'm happy ❤
6:50 well the main difference between light novel and the visual novel is that you can play out different decision's in the visual novel and even after Kirei's gaslighting about running away is for coward's you still got a choise to eather participate or had your command spell's removed,and if you choose the second Saber and Rin are gonna dip emidetly because one has to quickly find a new master and the second had lost interest and thus Shirou left completely defencless against Illya and he get's a conclussion much worse than death with his head removed from the body and Illya casting a spell so he won't die unless his brain get's creshed............he's still feel pain from decapitation but he can't even lose counciousness and she takes him to her castle to play house with his head..........so in the end even if we say that it would be better for him to just stay in school Illya won't let him! So he doesn't even have a choise on a matter
Now that was a very interesting video. I actually had no idea people were bashing in such a way on these MC's or saying they were way to similar. I have only watched a couple versions of Fate Stay Night and I thought it was mid tier at best and just could not get into it. But the Hero Shirou really didn't seem like a cardboard cut-out or a carbon copy to Touma in the slightest. In fact I would say nothing could be further from the truth. Heck, you can draw parallels to several MC's in that fashion and many of them have similarities anyways.
Most all heroes on average are similar so it is stupid to try to complain or point out why they are similar. That "is" what makes them heroes. For instance, I just finished another re-watch of Tokyo Ghoul series and Ken Kaneki is every bit like Touma and Shirou in wanting the best for others, self sacrificing, caring for other peoples' wants and desires and striving to become stronger to protect what is important. These are all qualities of what makes a person a real hero and makes us want to follow and emulate them. Not all Heroes are the same, but most have similar or several of the same defining characteristics.
To many people have it good and forget how hard life can be, simply complaining or bashing stuff because they got nothing better to do but be that way. Acting like you are being forced to watch something is just immature and plain stupid. I say just move along, watch or read what you like and quit trying to piss in other people's Wheaties and ruin everyone else's fun. Just like with animation. People whine and complain about what they perceive as good or poor animation, instead of just being happy we get a story that is brought to life from novels or manga. Never enough and never can just be happy.
Better get off my soap box, most people don't listen anyways lol. Great video and dang funny so keepem coming.
I mean, I went through a few of the common factors but its more than just that they wanna do generic good guy stuff. I'm talking about their saviour complex, which makes traditional superheroes look sane.
@@AeonofHorus I do agree with all your points, but I expanded a bit on my own thoughts due to your inspiration. I was talking about the other people , not you, who zealously or rabidly attack the characters for no real reason. I never meant in any way to take away from your thoughts or imply any different. If it seemed that in any way then my mistake.
WOW YOU SPOKE ABOUT MY 2 FAVOURITE ANIMES EVER FATE FRANCHISE BEING MY FIRST AND TOARU 2ND. TOUMA AND SHIROU ARE AMZING, I love how kiritsugu Emiya was a key character for Shirou chracter development in ubw.
Of course protagonists of animes won't work if you take out their inner monologue. Books are the only medium that allows deeper expansion on the hero then the limited time a film will allow.
Day [REDACTED] of asking when the NT 22 summary comes out 😉
There are so much things to talk about Emiya background. I like him and I actually want TYPE-MOON to fking remastered the bloody original VN =.=
Aeon talking about my other favorite series. Love this guy
If you continue comparing Toaru characters to their Type-Moon "counterparts":
How about a comparison of Accelerator and Shiki Tohno?
Shiki Tohno is actually quite similar to Accelerator in numerous ways.
-He has forgotten his true familial background.
-He nearly killed someone as a child due to a tragic accident in which he didn't understand what was going on.
-He killed a girl without provocation but then ended up helping her in order to try to make things right.
-He is an anti-hero who is willing to kill his opponents.
-He has lots of cool lines.
-He is a contrast to another, more well-known male protagonist in the same franchise as him.
-He is inaccurately viewed as just being an edgy murderer by some people.
Great video Aeon of Horus! So what you’re saying is, the real difference between Shirou and Touma is Shirou would sleep with the Index/Railgun waifus after saving them? Gotcha
Shirou might not my favourite character but I don't see why people hate this character.
My man woke and chose to sit hard Facts.
Also, its pretty funny when you think that both Shirou and Touma suffer identity crisis but one due to having no memories of past and one due to his memories and experiences.
top 3 animanga protagonists:
1. Touma
2. Yuji
3. Shirou
I don't like Emiya Shiro's way of thinking... but I still like Emiya Shiro as a protagonist
Kamijou Touma? he is my favorite!~ he is badass
What part of his thinking do you not like?
@@JohnShepherd117 cmiiw...
different from touma... shiro seems to be trying to save everyone or like all of humanity (after all he is after the title of hero or that his ideal)...
While Touma tries to save the people in front of him and only in the location he is in (or the conflict in which he is involved) ~ of course Touma ultimate goal is to have normal life ~
@@alamtya9410 Shirou also wants to save everyone in front of him which can extend to humanity depending on his opponent but most of the time he tries to save everyone in front of him which can change since Shirou travels the world after the holy grail war
@@JohnShepherd117 what I mean is... Touma is still trying to save Kamijou Touma (himself) even though it destroys the ideal world (a world without conflict like Kiritsugu/Shiro wants)
On the other hand, if it were Shiro... if he were in Touma position...
When othinus offering ideal world...
Shiro will not hesitate to kill himself for the ideal world created by Othinus
Another example
If Touma was offered by Alaya to become a counter guardian...
Touma will firmly reject it (this is similar to the magic god high priest's offer)
Accelerator and Gilgamesh are THE GOAT
Finally someone who know who are the real GOATS
Weird seeing aeon do a video that is not toaru still great video
Touma=you not living your life right
Shiro= just because your right doesn't mean your correct
It is Toaru. It is Toaru & Fate :^)
Do it, read the visual novel. Highly recommending you 🙂
Aeon woke up and decided to cook and he is a goat for that 🤝🔥
YESS
I guess we ain’t getting that 27K video 😅
Shirou and Touma two characters I love, feel like this video make for me thanks 😆
😂Aeon is 100% aware toaru fans are also fate fans for the most part, at least LN readers are.
Cant deny it so so easy to jump from 1 franchise to the other and feel at home
8:07Yeeeeaaaaahhhh i don't think you want to do that for............. reasons.
*Touma and Shirou going back to back fighting along side each other*
As fate fan and fan of index too I really suggest u read the vn if u have time naturally if u don’t eh it happens, but if u want to read it stay night and than the sequel of called hollow ataraxia are good way to start, and it’s fun cause index and fate they have a lot of overlap, and I will say summarized cause I have ranted over this point a lot but: in terms of adaptation, of the og vn ironically deen isn’t even a full adaptation because there were plans for it to be a 4th route problems is development problem and it was cut to be just the fate route with a few extra pieces in, unlimited blade works as far as adaptation is decent but flanderizes some characters specifically rin, and the heaven’s feel movies are horrible adaptations straight up cause not only did they change the entire atmosphere of the route but also put in fluff that wastes time and it butchers it so bad I woudnt suggest u watch it till you read the vn cause it spoils the important moments and cuts out so many moments for characters important for the route as I would describe the movies are a barebones skeleton of a plot plated in gold, but yeh if u wanna read u gonna be surprised by the differences u will notice. But yeh great video keep it up funny index man XD
is there actually ppl who really hate them? i believe most are just memeing
Unpopular opinion: i'd still force ppl to watch deen fate, it shows a lot about Shirou's trauma and important info on Avalon.
Shirou & Touma got plenty of criticism when their animes first aired, and still do occasionally to this day. Its not hard to find it on forums, blogs or video essays.
@@AeonofHorus yeah, i'd just assumed most ppl are just riding the meme and don't actually have an opinion of their own. Kinda like the SAO hate (admittedly that show is a huge waste of potential tho).
gilgamesh doesnt want to become immortal lol
he did in his legend
Wake up pookie bear Aeon posted about the twin heroes (I'm talking to myself as usual)
Aeon : "Touma is still a virgin."
Me : "I mean Nasu and Takeuchi doesn't want to make Eroge to begin with."
Touma and Shirou are definitely two of my favourite main characters of all time. While their ideals may be deeply flawed and too idealist, I do not see that as a bad thing. As living beings, we all have our own flaws and weaknesses it's what makes us human after all. Touma and Shirou not wanting to kill is not cringe or dumb as Goku (one of the most beloved characters in Japanese media) was going to spare Frieza (a genocide nutjob who had the blood of billions of lives on his hands) and people praise his character for it. Touma and Shiou just see the value of life much more than most due to the hell they went through as kids. Both of them know the world is cruel and full of evil and tested beings, but both still try with all their might to create happiness for those around them. And no, just because Touma and Shioru are nice guys does not mean they are pushovers. They will kick your ass to the point of you wish you were dead far worst than any edgy character could ever do if you push their buttons too much (they always say barware the nice ones). My love goes out to these two wonderful lads if only our world had more people like these two around. Thank you for making this vid, Aeon and well done to 26000 subscribers!
another banger
many laughs
btw you gotta watch what you're doing my guy, if you see the types of vids being recommended to me on the right
you've done something real wrong real real wrong
but in all seriousness, whats up with the budget meme why does it still persist so
thought this was disproven 10 yrs ago, not including movies like REDLINE or Akira which disprove it as well but were made much much lnger ago
Sheesh, my two fav chars. Nice job King
Thank you!
Shirou in the anime is pretty trash. However if you read the LN or visual novels, Shirou is pretty much tragic along with his alternate versions of himself. Their fates are tragic.
Touma by the time of the Othinus arc and especially Coronzon and maybe Kamijou arc. Touma got mentally tortured and almost committed suicide after Othinus shows him the Omega World where everyone is alive and happy including the people he failed to saved. Also by the time NT, Touma after his encounter with Fiamma has a totally different view point of trusting people. He’s not going to be this naive and see if their worth trusting. Touma definitively has crossed the dark hero arc and made us related. I bet in GT, Touma will go through more.
Aeon, bro don’t remind of SW memes. As a big fan of SW, I read the novels since I’m a EU fan. Bro I can’t stand the memes when people forget Anakin’s backstory and how he grew up. Also his time in the Jedi Order before AOTC was pretty worse. Anakin after turning into Vader and the mental state he went through for 20 years and torture Sidious put him through after his failure on Mustafar, the chosen one deserved better.
All these characters should be respected as heroes. People only care about watching on screen instead of reading a FREAKIN BOOK OR NOVEL.
Shirou in the ORIGINAL FSN is pretty mediocre (not bad) but he is pretty good in UBW. The reason he isn't great in the original DEEN anime is because the Fate Route is Shirou at his most annoying.
@@orga7777no, that's just you man. A lot of ppl like Fate route Shirou and his relationship with Artoria. It just thst the anime sucks ass. Ask any person who's been apart of the fate community for a decade and they'll say the same thing
Only anime onlies hate Fate!Shirou cause they don't have the context or they watched Zero and liked it cause it was edgy
@@whateverwhatever4476I have the context completely as I have played the VN, and even before the UBW anime came out, the community was pretty much overall in agreement that the Fate Route was always the least popular of the three by a long mile due to the same reasons I listed. I don't think the Fate Route is BAD, but when it comes to an anime adaptation, it would easily be the least interesting of the three because there is just WAY more down time compared to UBW and HF, and that is just not going to be as visually stimulating or as interesting to most people.
So do lala vs madko
To love-ru vs toaru kagaku no railgun
*Saying Touma has Plot armor is like saying One Punch Man is Over-Powered*
❤ nice one
Touma have one of the biggest plot armors
AAAAAAAAAHHHHH
AEON IS TALKING ABOUT FATE!? GOOOAAAAATEEED
:^)
Who's more unlucky? Shirou or touma
I haven't consumed every alternate shirou in every piece of fate media so idk. If we talking vanilla FSN Shirou then it has to be Touma.
@@AeonofHorusAll of Shirou’s bad ends are canon to FSN so Shirou dies way more than he lives.
That being said, Touma’s death count surpasses most if not all anime characters when NT9 happened lol
One also has to define unlucky.
If you die, you stop being unlucky.
While Shirou does have multiple times he can die in a route and your basically supposed to think like Shirou to get the True Ends of each route, they are at the end of the day different routes that you reset if you get a Bad End and keep going for the True End which is completely removed from the True End.
TOUMA REMEMBERS DYING IN ALL THOSE ALTERNATE TIMELINES.
Not to mention one is objectively more athletic and put together then the other. Shirou has a job, useful skills that would let him apply for a trade of any kind as just a side business, dude wanted to become a lawyer after high school which is shown in Fate/Hollow Ataraxia and on the daily isn't beset by misfortune because of a arm that destroys blessings and curses.
Yeah Touma's got cardio but he's not vaulting over buildings with ease and has a special power that's whole point is to make stuff stronger.
Yeah, Touma is way more unlucky.
Touma, 100%. NT9 will prove as such beyond all doubt.
I often compare Touma to Superman. They both represent an archetype which seems to inevitably divide the audience between those who find a moral paragon too simplistic and unrealistic with those who adamantly love their earnest idealism. Though that's reductive for both Clark and Touma characters, it is usually the sticking point brought up in media discussions. While Emiya Shirou is honestly his own thing. Fate analyzes and deconstructs his character in quite a bit of detail to reach nuanced conclusions about the nature of heroism, sacrafice, and altruism that taking him at face value as the story's hero is doing e pretty big disservice to the work as a whole.
Both my fav fr
shirou emiya IS LITTERALLY ME
LITERALLY MY TWO FAVOURITE ANIME
My favorites are
.Nasuverse/fate
.Tensura/that time i got reincarnated as a result
.A certain magical index
.Masadaverse/dies irae
oh!
Imagine if a Toaru OT remake or NT anime gets animated by Ufotable or at least assist JC Staff with the visual effects.
We can only dream
Finally. An anime video that’s spitting facts. Thanks for this good meal my guy.
My pleasure!
@@AeonofHorus on the bit of seeing every character as a self insert character, I’ve encountered some fool who actually unironically has that mindset… I wish to take that time back.
They both got done so dirty by the anime adaptations
Thank you for doing a fate video
LET'S GOOOOOO
THE GOATS
These 2 and Batman are my favorite characters. They're very similar in a way.
My two goats onb 🐐
its all because of the popularity of garbage like watchmen or game of thrones that the American audiences hate these kinds of characters. the fact that people think purely good heroes are boring says a lot about our society.
I absolutely love Touma, but Shirou absolutely annoys me 80% of the time because of his warped approach while Touma's feels more genuine. No I don't see them as twins, though I love your take on this crossover topic.
Archer was really right about Shirou.
Both of them are entirely effed up in the head but the respective series took different approach to it.
Shirou mental struggle are the forefront of fate novel, we follow his inner struggle as he learn to be human focusing on shirou ideal for example.
Meanwhile, touma are liars and an unreliable narrator. The novel prefer to see his struggle to find way to help other rather than focusing on touma himself. He's the only (mostly) static character in an otherwise vibrant (well bleak) world which makes the contrast apparent when the novel feature someone else story instead. And i am not saying having static character is bad. Usually static character is bad because they're monotone, you'd get bored of them quickly but touma is done well despite being static because his position always change in accordance to who he's currently with/fight against (fiamma wish for salvation is due to him believing he's special, touma say that he's unneeded. Vento wish to wipe technology due to her brother dead, touma say that his brother doesn't want that, and other example) like a chameleon changing their skin colour. But you see... Normal people doesn't change their position at the drop of a hat... Most people become stubborn when their view is challenged for a reason, to be so readily accept everything is very bizare. There's other tick that bust him out as very inhumane like his tendency to help other is not due to altruistic desire but because to him 'it is something anyone else would do' or 'normal'.
@@lakshaykochhar6799he wasn't. Even the novel makes it clear. He's basically throwing a temper tantrum
Really sad some fans don’t like shiro and touma cause think overpowered with no development or backstory keep comparing overpowered bland characters from other animes to them
Just because you're correct doesn't mean you're right.
Shirou is cool but touma has that HIM aura. I dont know how to describe it but when touma on the field then you know everyone safe
Even with what Ufotable cut from the VN Shirou is still a better character with development than many popular and well received series and their MCs, including his dad.
His main "issue" is that he is WEAK at the start with seemingly every character clowning on him for one reason or another, many times without even being in the right.
Oh Archer said some bs that make Shirou look stupid? He is totally right, even if what he said is complete bullshit.
The fact that people love Saber in Zero and then go in UBW and hate Shirou when they are almost the same, with Saber being worse(because her backstory as a king and her character in Zero just doesnt make sense) makes no sense until you realize that Saber has cool moments.
It's just people looking for rule of cool and seeing just a ginger weakling that causes them to dislike him.
Hell even in Deen his character can be understood, although Deen has more issues than just Shirou not being cool early on.
... Kirito is in the exact same place as he is also misunderstood. Anime cut a lot from him.
5:03 I am sorry I need to correct this cause idk wtf are you talking about
Gilgamesh goal is to bring humanity back on track
He sees so many people who do nothing and is disgusted by modern humanity lack of will and porpouse
And so as the king whose job is to watch over humanity he decided to cause a worldwide disaster and rebuild humanity properly with the people who were strong enough to survive
If gilgamesh wanted to be immortal he woulda done so whenever he wanted he has an item that can make him immortal
In the legend of Gilgamesh, i.e. his lore, he wants to become immortal...
What would happen to those who would oppose his rule/watching over humanity? He's shown to kill those who oppose him. So what I said was accurate.
@@AeonofHorus in the epic of gilgamesh he gave up on the desire to be immortal when he ended his journey
A journey that only started after enkidu's death anyway
You say it like its a part of gilgamesh's character when its just a passing desire he once had
@@AeonofHorusYeah, Gil gave that up on immortality after the serpent took the herb. He became a very different King after that, too, which we see in the Babylonia section in Grand Order.
👍🏾👍🏾👍🏾
My 2 goats ever
NO YOU DIDNT
;)
Touma is the goat 🥰👌
When I first watched Stay Night I freakin hated Shirou . I hated him because he always makes stupid decisions that gets himself in danger and causes troubles to people around him .
He tries to protect Saber but taking the hit himself but as a master her shouldn’t be fighting a servant . Servants are suppose to fight each other and he is causing Saber trouble
When he gets into dangerous situations also caused Rin a lot of trouble because Rin have to save him
He gets more relatable in Unlimited Blade Works though. But the original Stay Night … Oh Geez can’t stand him
If he hadn't taken the hit against Berserker, Saber would have died and him and Rin would have followed right after. The VN even has a bad end to show what happens if he doesn't do anything.
There's only one time where Rin needed to save him and it's when he was kidnapped by Illya who had shown no intent to act as a Master during the day the several times he talked to her, so it's understandable he didn't see it coming. Also, he does end up being a key factor to kill Berserker during their fight.
I really don’t like it when someone calls these guys too nice some people like the nice guy, hell I like the nice guy but just because there simply nice guys dozen’s mean they have no depth or bland as that heroic natures can already double as a flaw if they’re used to being that guy who’s letting everyone relying on them and not letting their friend help with the load like Superman or Harry Potter
Oh god you haven’t played the visual novels? Careful roaming the coMments and everyone’s watch order. As a fate fan read them and watch fate/Zero after but if you’re going pure anime it’s okay but I’d suggest to watch fate Zero first and then watch the Deen anime anime UBW and top it all off with the films. Or skip deen if the announce a certain anime this week.
Tbh, if you go in through F/Zero first, you would be spoiled about the Grail being corrupted. The narration in FSN itself is way diferrent than F/Zero because it's made by diferrent people (FSN by Nasu and F/Zero by Gen Urobochi). So technically, watching any of the FSN anime first is ok (for UBW and Fate route atleast, since HF movies are just straight up not giving you any lore that gives life to the route). But yeah, it's ok to watch F/Zero first if it's your first time.
@@adamharith782 I mean in all honesty each work spoils each other. We’d know Kiriya failed, Rin is parentless, Kotomine is alive, and why this Illya girl has a grudge against Shirou.
Based take for the real characters of the VN and LN
W
Neither are underrated.
From a LN ane VN perspective for sure they arent at least which is nice 🙌 just wish they werent from an anime perspective...
Although in Shirou's case thank god UBW and HF are fairly popular so he gets less flak about it
VN reader of Fate Stay/Night here. I read everything i think shirou is boring and a gary stu. His inner thoughts about becoming a hero of justice and his survivors guilt are not saving his character. The VN of Fate has sex scence in it, but it is not hentai.
He has character flaws from what I see, perhaps its not presented well in the writing, as I do think FSN has some writing flaws
Shirou is a pretty damn broken person. He serves his role well of being defined by his emptiness and how he changes across the routes. Shirou's role can be seen as the three stages of man.
@@AeonofHorus It has. He has flaws but these are simply not really relatable or realistic. That every girl falls for him for some reason makes it not better. Saber and Rin are more intresting than him. I think the entire VN would be better if rin would be sabers master and shirou was not part of the story or got killed by lancer at the start.
@@uziel1447 Not every character has to be relatable in order to considered a good character after all people love Gilgamesh and Kiritsugu despite them not being relatable.
@@uziel1447bro, Rin and Saber wouldn't be half as interesting if it weren't for Shirou
Respect the goat
Did you read Fate Stay Night? I tried but lost the motivation.
I say in the video that I'm anime only
@@AeonofHorus i was about to watch the video but needed to do some sh.t so I commented first
Be like me then. Don't watch the anime (atleast the whole full series) but knows all about it through FGO and some reading through Wiki or watching videos. Yeah, I never fully watch Fate series fully, but my Type/Moon lore knowledge is pretty ok.
@@adamharith782 Bruh I ain't ever touching Fgo
@@Chinese_Name Good, don't be like us.