My Response to Brian Holdsworth on "A Question Protestants Can't Answer?"
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- Опубликовано: 9 июл 2024
- In this video I respond to Brian Holdsworth on "A Question Protestants Can't Answer." At the core of the gospel is the glorious truth that Jesus' death on the cross is a substitutionary atonement that enables God to be both just and forgiving.
See Brian's video: • A Question Protestants...
See Sean Luke's response: • Brian Holdsworth Doesn...
My video on purgatory: • Purgatory: A Protestan...
Matthew Barrett's book, The Reformation as Renewal: zondervanacademic.com/product...
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Gavin Ortlund (PhD, Fuller Theological Seminary) serves as senior pastor of First Baptist Church of Ojai.
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00:00 - Introduction
00:28 - Can God be Unjust?
01:53 - How Can God Forgive?
04:42 - Caricatures of Protestantism
07:06 - Caricatures of Roman Catholicism
07:50 - Substitutionary Atonement
09:33 - Propitiation
12:01 - Sola Fide
13:34 - John Chrysostom
15:49 - The Importance of the Gospel
18:46 - Glorification
21:06 - Summing Up 
Развлечения
“The thief on the cross is a paradigm, not an exception.”
Amen.
This is literally heresy and a false gospel.
Trying to put the thief on the cross in heaven for just speaking the name of Jesus is pretty negligent to the rest of scripture. There's more to be understood there. Paradise isn't the same thing as heaven. Even when heaven is mentioned in the Bible it isn't always referring to the place where God is
No, scripture is very clear, "all who call on the name of Jesus will be saved".@@a-aron6724
@a-aron6724 So, "Today, you will be with me in paradise" means? Where? With who?
@@MrWesfordWhat did Jesus promise him? Did he lie?
Even as Protestants we often struggle with the thought of receiving something as great as salvation without having to earn it.
We obtain our salvation through God's Grace. Good works are the result of us following is word. God's Grace is the cause, good works are the result of his Grace.
John 3:16-17 (NKJV): For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
@@Sola_Scriptura_1.618 Do we have any real free will to choose to do good works? Or are we zombies that do good or bad unconsciously? Honestly, there may be different answers, but bottom line I seem to be free to choose as I am inspired by my love for Christ.
@mariasoniamoreno3433 absolutely you have complete free will to choose. But if you choose Jesus why would you not follow in his footsteps?
"Amazing love, how can it be, that thou, my God, shouldst die for me?" from the beautiful hymn: And Can It Be That I Should Gain.
@TheTuckershouse I love that hymn. It is just one of the many great theological and musical masterpieces in the canon of hymns.
This is literally Christianity in a single video and I love it. God bless you, Dr. Ortlund!
Catholicism is Christianity. Everything else just has partial truths. They are man-made-up religions created 500 years ago.
There is no salvation outside the Catholic Church because Jesus Christ is the head of the Catholic Church and there is no salvation outside of Jesus Christ.
Gavin, I needed to hear this, thank you. I’ve recently been going away from Eastern Orthodoxy and being pulled into more gospel centric Protestantism. Thank you for this reminder of the gospel
This was beautifully and respectfully done. I loved your gospel presentation at the end.
Will you respond to the video "How to be Christian" did on you?
I would also like to see your response to the video done on you by "How to be Christian "
Oh good lord. Protestants have such a poor understanding of scripture.
Just read the exodus. That’s our salvation.
The entire world, all of creation, every iota is reconciled from the dominion of death to the dominion of Christ.
We are judged by Christ after passing from slavery and death to freedom in Christ.
I’m Orthodox, not Catholic.
Hey, I watch your channel.
I love your channel, Melissa! I really truly do. But I asked you about Catholicism and you got it all wrong in a Q&A. That’s fine, of course, but I hope you do look into what’s ACTUALLY taught using official sources.
As a Protestant, nearly everything Brian mentioned was alien to me.
Yeah. It feels like Brian was reaching to make a RUclips video and came up with that one. It happens, but that was a weird argument to hear.
@@uruk_bye1232 Gavin didn't answer the objection. The objection was asking how PENAL substitutionary atonement is just. Gavin never answered the objection. I wrote the question again to Gavin, asking him to answer it directly. We'll see if he does. I'll paste my question to him here:
You still didn't answer his question. You dismissed it at 8:32 by saying it's just because of substitutionary atonement. But you conflated substitutionary atonement with penal substitutionary atonement, and then skipped over the whole point of his video that showed how PENAL substitutionary atonement is not just.
You restate penal substitutionary atonement at 10:27 and 12:00, but then never actually addressed Brian's question about how your conception of penal substitutionary atonement is just. Dismissing it at 10:50 by waving your hand and saying "oh, we've heard this all before" doesn't actually answer the question.
I'll restate the question here, and please answer it. Don't skirt around it:
Imagine that someone commits horrible crimes against your family members and then murders them. The judge looks at them and decides he's a merciful judge and lets them off the hook, but knows the law must be satisfied. But in order to justify his wrath/the law, the judge beats his own son to death, or perhaps even dies himself (as you stated, "the judge judged in our place" at 11:35). The judge says that it is still justice because somebody else took the wrath on behalf of the murderer, so now the murderer can go free because the law's wrath was poured out on somebody else. Under no circumstance would we ever say that this is justice. Imagine if a BLM/antifa/KKK rioter murdered a bunch of people in the middle of Chicago, and the judge said it's okay, I'll sentence myself in his place ("the judge judged in the riotor's place"), so that will be justice for the rioter, and now he can go free. That's not justice. That's literally the definition of injustice.
Catholicism doesn't have this problem, because we recognize the difference between temporal and eternal punishment for sins. The separation from God isn't a LEGAL problem, it's an ONTOLOGICAL problem. A lack of grace removes our relationship with God. Being justified gives us the Holy Spirit, makes us partakers of the Divine Nature, and thus we are restored to relationship with God and are ontologically adopted as children of God. But the TEMPORAL punishment for sin remains, not just to fulfill a "legal requirement," but to continue to change us ONTOLOGICALLY into full participants of the Divine Nature and make us more like God.
If you conceive of Christ's substitution as PENAL, then you really can't get around the "judge murdering himself or his son" objection. You can ignore it as Gavin did here, but you can't get around it. If you understand that substitution is not about a legal declaration, but is instead about ontology, then you don't have to "wrestle with this question" as you claimed all Christian traditions must do 2:57 . The Catholic and EO have a consistent, biblical answer that doesn't contradict justice. Protestants have a twisted, unjust view of the atonement, and as we can see here, there's no direct answer for it, just avoiding it, and then ending with a passionate "holier than thou" talking-down-to as mere simpletons for "not understanding the gospel," when you've failed to address how PENAL substitution is just.
He just makes stuff up.
@@KEP1983. ‘Holier than thou”? Your comment reeks of it, your last paragraph is soaked in it. Your arrogance is appalling, who do you think you are to judge millions of people? I don’t know any Protestants who believe what you so ignorantly claim. I’m assuming you have read the Bible, I would suggest another reading of the the New Testament as none of it seems to have had an effect on you and your pious thinking.
@@KEP1983 so I am going to wade into the waters of theology which greater minds than mine just discussed, but I do have to ask just how Catholics expect any remedy man can make for sin reaches the necessity God places on that remedy in order to gain forgiveness and atone for sin? I don’t know of any Protestant claim saying that all punishments for sins are automatically reduced upon salvation, for that claim would deny the current physical and psychological suffering our own sins clearly lead to as well as the suffering of pain and death in general. Just from a layperson’s perspective, mankind cannot atone for his sins in order to reach the goalpost of God’s justice. The books of Romans and Hebrews, especially, emphasize this. Protestantism claims only that God does what we cannot by the suffering of His son, but it never lets human beings off from being responsible to that act of Divine sacrifice and will. Those who take it seriously respond seriously with actions and attitudes proving it. Catholicism leaves people wondering if God truly forgives at all. At least, the Orthodox family members of mine, different that Roman, I know, but at least these family members never quite knew. It caused them great anxiety and pain. The only answer they had was to look to the Church for their authority over their own forgiveness and pay to have prayers spoken and candles lit. It all seemed rather out of their hands and God’s hands and in only the hands of the priest. This is the Protest part of Protestantism, I suppose, and Catholics must also answer the question, “Why isn’t what God declares in response to the sacrifice of His Son enough?” If Protestants make too little of man’s contribution to and responsibility for his own salvation, do Catholics make too little of that eternal sacrifice of God’s own Son? This is a layperson speaking, someone who saw the effect and lack of peace in the deaths of family members though they were in good standing with the church.
The Gospel of Jesus Christ is simple enough for a child yet powerful enough to "turn the world upside down".
Christ be with you
What do you think it is?
God bless you
@@MrKev1664
I noticed your logo, "sacred heart". Does this identify you as a Roman Catholic?
And, are you asking me what the phrase "Christ be with you" means?
@@Eddie33154
Christ be with you
Firstly, you did not answer my question.
I am Catholic.
When Christ is with us we have the promise of eternal life. (1 John 5:11-13)
It means you will live in his teaching and commandments producing the fruit of the Spirit (1 John 3:24)
God bless you
@@MrKev1664
I didn't answer the question because it wasn't clear to me the way you wrote, what I should answer.
If you had written "what does "Christ be with you" mean?
It would have made it much clearer to me. Sorry, it wasn't clear to me.
Yes. Jesus Christ our Lord is with us. He is faithful.
But the real issue is.... are we faithful to Him? Will we remain with Him?
The phrase "Christ be with you" is not recorded in Scripture in the exact way, it is a phrase used by different churches.
Nevertheless, there are many many statements that Jesus Christ is with us, His Spirit is with us, His grace is with us, His peace is with us, and so on
Jesus Himself said, "Lo, I am with you, even till the end of the age" - Matthew 28.
He also said - "I will never leave you or forsake you." Hebrews 13:5; Deuteronomy 31:6
But Jesus made it very clear that He would not only be WITH us, but IN us and, we IN Him.
John 15:1-8 , read chap 13-16.
In 15:6 Jesus explains that He is the Vine, and we are His branches.
In v2 He says "every branch IN Me not bearing fruit He (His Father) takes away."
All through these chapters He repeats the truth that we are as true believers, IN Jesus, and He is IN us.
We are to abide, remain IN Jesus, and He will remain IN us.
The picture of a house with a family living IN it is also spoken of in Scripture. Hebrews 3:6.
Christ Jesus is the Son over the house He builds "WHOSE HOUSE WE ARE IF we remain faithful...."
Note Jesus is head over His house not Peter, and therefore not the pope.
A house is built by someone, owned by someone.
The household of faith is built by Jesus. It is His house.
We are, Peter says in his first letter - "living stones".
When we come to real faith in Jesus Christ, we become living stones put in place for and as the dwelling house of the Lord.
So Jesus dwells IN the individual believer, the "living stone", the "living fruitful branch", and this is the particular work of the Holy Spirit who comes to dwell in us.
The same Life of Jesus flows through every branch connected to, abiding IN the Vine.
And Jesus dwells in the house which we being put together by the Holy Spirit, make up as a collective whole.
Just as a grape vine can have numerous branches according to the desire of the husbsndman, so a house has as many bricks as a builder owner desires.
We are both living branches abiding IN the Vine - Jesus, in order to produce fruit pleasing to the husbandman, and, we are living stones being built up together in Christ Jesus bonded together in His uncompromising love, complimentary to each other.
The same mortar bonds every brick together.
We are also members of Christ's body on earth. Just as a healthy body has two arms etc, two legs etc, one head over all, so each true believer in Jesus Christ is a member of the body of Christ.
(This has nothing to do with religious activity or what "church" one belongs to)
Paul says in Ephesians 4:13-17; Romans 12; 1 Corinthians 12:12>> , that we are members of one body which belongs to and is joined to, and is under Jesus Christ.
We receive of His Life, His instructions for our Life in Him have been laid out through His apostles, the Scriptures.
No one man is head of the church , the body of Christ on earth.
Jesus Christ is WITH us.
We are WITH Him.
Jesus Christ is IN us.
We are IN Him.
Jesus Christ will never leave or forsake us.... but it is up to us daily to abide IN Him.
We are to abide IN His Word.
And we are to make sure His Word abides in us.
@@Eddie33154
Christ be with you
No I was asking what the Gospel is that you where speaking of that was so simple.
I told you how we are in Christ and it is only when we are producing the fruit of obedience.
That is what we see in John 15:1-11 and it is what he tells in John 14:20-24)
and we know that unless we have Christ there is no salvation (1 John 5:11-13)
I am sorry Jesus did appoint a steward to take care of his Christ when he went to his Father (Matt 16:15-19)
He used Davidic tradition to do it (Isaiah 22:20-22)
The good shepherd to him to look after his sheep and take care of them. (John 21:15-20(
He prayed for his church to remain one (John 17:20-23)
God bless you
"The thief on the cross is a paradigm, not an exception." Whew... I felt that!
That was well said, and needed!!!
No. the thief on the cross was an exception. If he was not an exception then you are saying that we don't need to profess our faith and be baptised or repent and ask for forgiveness.
The thief on the cross did not even ask for Jesus' forgiveness. If he was not an exception, then we don't need to ask for forgiveness.
The thief on the cross admitted his wrongdoings and he said that they deserved to be crucified but the passage did not say explicitly that he repented. We could also admit our guilt but not repent of what we did. There a big difference in repenting and just admitting the wrong deed.
@@justthink8952 - I understand this can be hard for us linear-thinking beings to comprehend- but there is nothing… and I mean NOTHING - we can do (no action, no thought, no words, no deeds…) to add to or earn God’s salvation. There is nothing you can say or do - no works - that is a preemptive movement towards God. The best we can do is to accept the free gift that is offered: To be the bride that says “I do” (accept Your Love offered freely and undeservedly). The Love is already there. It’s already offered.
Repentance is a response to God’s Love for us - “He first loved us…” but it doesn’t save us. We repent, because we are already saved and loved. Asking for forgiveness is a response to God’s Love to us - His Grace… His attitude of undeserved forgiveness … is already proffered, much like the Groom asking the bride for her hand already has Love freely offered, irrespective of her response (her action). The Love is there, and you’ve done nothing to either deserve it, or to earn it. You are free to reject it, however.
Thus, the thief is not only NOT an exception, but a very, very good example for the state we are ALL in - condemned to destruction through every fault of our actions, but offered paradise solely because of Jesus, the Son of God, irrespective of our actions. We don’t have to ‘do’ anything. We do things - we take actions because of the thankfulness we have - because we love Him back.
I disagree. It’s about your heart, not your theology.
He saw his need for a savior and, even though he didn’t have the language, he still realized his sinfulness and sincerely turned away from it in his heart. We are justified by faith, not works, and it doesn’t matter how long that faith has been alive! That’s repentance. That’s why he’ll be with us when we raise with Christ Jesus!
Those four points by John Chrysostom really nailed it. 1) Sudden 2) By faith rather than works 3) Easy 4) Available to all men.
Ireneaus also says « Either from the moment they believe, or from the moment they repent. » Soooo…
Yeah #4 is a weak point of calvinist theology, but all the rest are good for the vast majority of protestants.
@@ravissary79 I'm pretty sure he was not arguing for universalism 🤪
@@JoeThePresbapterian I am too...so why would you say that? 🤔
John Chrysostom was not making an argument for Sola Fide, Realyout. This doctrine didn't exist in the early Church.
“A question Protestants can’t answer” is properly translated “A question I DON’T want Protestants to answer.”
Exactly!!!
Catholics have a romanticized view of what they want to be true rather then just accepting historical and Biblical facts. Seeing better Protestant apologetics form is giving me hope for the United States.
Here’s your answer fool because only a lost fool would ask this type of question. God is all powerful all knowing Almighty and everything He does is right and He does nothing unjust.
You catholic need to understand your not True Biblical Christians your minions of Satan and if you choose to die a catholic you will lift your eyes up in Hell and guess what fool there’s no such thing as purgatory
@@HexadecimalMan all who rejects Jesus Christ and what He accomplished at the Cross and God raised Jesus from the dead will burn in Hell and yes that means catholics also who are not True Biblical Christians, “ The Just shall live by Faith”
You can’t earn Heaven
Everything God does or does not do is Just, everything that God does or does not do is righteous. The problem with catholics is you do not know God that’s because your lost and on your way to Hell Fire and to help you some more, there’s no such place as purgatory. All catholic teachings are LIES, again all catholics are NOT True Biblical Christians and your on your way to Hell Fire unless you Truly repent to the True Jesus Christ of the Bible Gods Son.
I am a Catholic and I so appreciate this response of yours to Brian Holdsworth, who I really like, but do not always agree with. You have inspired me to take a look at Matthew Barrett's book. Thank you, so much!
Christ be with you
I suggest you also look at Brians response to this,
Also in reading protestant book I would suggest you know what the Catholic faith teaches first,
God bless you
@@MrKev1664
I also recommend to both of you to actually read the Book of Concord, which includes the Augsburg Confession and its Apology (defense) that was written not by Martin Luther but by Philip Melancthon. Martin Luther wrote the Small and Large Catechism as well as the Smalcald Articles. Martin Chemnitz wrote the Formula of Concord.
As Dr. Ortlund notes, such disingenuous misrepresentations by Brian don't help the discourse.
Peace be with you.
Brian's response to Gavin ruclips.net/video/wHlDARLn-X8/видео.html
First of all Catholics are NOT Christians, another words their NOT SAVED. Yes Catholics are on their way to Hell. By the way I’m not sure what the question was but he’s a idiot to assume the question can’t be answered. I’ll say this Catholics don’t have the answers for anything Biblical
@@whateverman13 what's the cliff notes version? Does Brian suddenly remember who actually wrote the material he's trying to criticize?
Update: I watched Brian's response video. His video and arguments contain actual heresy (Pelagianism). 😮💨
I really appreciate the way you responded, with grace and humility, taking us first to the scriptures, then to an authority a Catholic would recognize and finally to a clear explanation of the gospel. It's a pattern we can all learn to follow!
Yes I too was puzzled as to why Brian had missed the main point of what the Bible teaches about substitutionary atonement. It serves as a useful reminder that we need to be really thorough when we're explaining such important things from the Scriptures.
Romans 4:7-8 ESV
"Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven, and whose sins are covered; [8] blessed is the man against whom the Lord will not count his sin."
The question i find that Catholics can't answer is who is the blessed man. Much of the issue stems from an inability to tie Torah and NT together appropriately. they don't understand the dynamic of God historically before the church. Forgiveness of sins then gets misunderstood by Rome as a state of which one can be forgiven then sin freely. This is a focused misconception without a full biblical understanding of Salvation. this is Common among our Roman Catholic brothers and it stems largely from a lens filtered reading of scripture vs a contextual reading.
Scripture states in numerous passages with consistency that the TRUE REGERATE SAVED person (Caps for emphasis not screaming) does not continue sinning but is renewed of the mind in a new 2 state spirit filled existence. Romans 7:25, Galatians 5:17. True regeneration has a completion point promised by the Father. Philippians 1:6 where they overcome the world before death. This is a PROMISE. Christ even said that his sheep hear him and know him. He also made a wildly black and white claim that those he doesnt KNOW are cast into Hell. Therefore salvation is not a losable state but a certainty of true regeneration.
So if you have a concern of people CLAIMING salvation without evidence. James 2:14, then you have a false convert. You cannot be born from above and treat sin like its a candy store then claim the fine is paid. Christ did pay for our sins past present and future but with the bonus that when are are truly saved we change under his love and guidance, not self will. we BECOME like Christ because he brings us to that completion point. And don't confuse forgiveness of sin with escaping corporeal judgment of sin. If you murder someone and become redeemed after this, you are forgiven by God and saved BUT you must still face earthly judgments. Sin has a VERY real corporeal consequence regardless of your heart change.
Psalm 2:12 ESV
Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and you perish in the way, for his wrath is quickly kindled. Blessed are all who take refuge in him.
Refuge in Christ is not a license to sin. Its a state of holiness that Christ gives us in forgiveness to live holy and exhibit the fruits of the spirit. Galatians 5:21-23
this is why we have new deniers of the faith who "say" they were saved but now say they reject. No one speaking in the psrit of God can ever say "Jesus is accursed". And The spirit of God does not leave the believer on a whim of sin.
Romans 8:10,26-27 ESV
But if Christ is in you, although the body is dead because of sin, the Spirit is life because of righteousness. [26] Likewise the Spirit helps us in our weakness. For we do not know what to pray for as we ought, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words. [27] And he who searches hearts knows what is the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints according to the will of God.
The sin of the regenerate vs the sin of the reprobate is the same sin under 2 different laws. One is already damned and the other is forgiven but corrected.
Brian : a question a Protestants can’t answer
Gavin : now this is an easy one
Ive been a Christian for over 30 years and i just recently discovered that I didnt really believe the Gospel to the extent that i should. My experience was similar to what Gavin described as dependent on circumstances and feelings rather than the FACTS of the Gospel. I didnt "feel" saved so i questioned. Still struggle, but getting better at basing my status with God on what Jesus did rather than what i did. ❤❤❤
That is the struggle of all mankind…faith alone.
We so badly want to create God in our image, we can’t wrap our heads around total submission.
We hear it all the time, “what kind of would would _________?” Or “My God would not do__________.” This is all making God submit to our image, which He will never do.
Once we learn total submission to who He says He is, it’s hard to see the point of it all.
For instance, many women try to justify that they can be pastors over men, because the the scriptures were written in a male dominated culture and we have evolved. But Paul actually says it’s because of Eve they can’t. So he depended on an original sin issue not a culture issue, and look how many churches embrace women pastors over men? This is evidence of creating God in their image. Refusing to submit to the order God has determined is best to protect us against our sin nature while we are being sanctified.
He doesn’t do it to be mean, everything He does is for our good and His glory.
Yep, even getting cancer, yep even bad things happening. God is perfecting us.
Until we get to that point of submission, the walk will always be a struggle.
But once we submit, the burden is light. All the hardships are just there, not a burden.
@@hangtownranger This is one of the biggest issues I see in the Church today. It all revolves around disobedience of the teachings in Ephesians 5:22-33.
An error based on denial of the literal meaning of Genesis 1 to 3. If male and female evolved, then they and their distinct roles are developing constructs rather than God's created order which was "very good." Eve sinned, Paul rightly says; but if there was no Eve, his argument falls flat.
Furthermore, Paul also finds reason for male headship in the order of creation. Man was created first, then woman. Again, if one accepts evolution, the whole plan unravels.
"being confident of this very thing, that He who has begun a good work in you will complete it until the day of Jesus Christ" -Philippians 1:6
As a Catholic, I really appreciate it. This clarification, and I think it's well said! What beautiful spiritual clarity! Thank you for sharing!
As a Catholic, you are easily led. Read my above response. I love listening to Dr Ortlund but, only because it helps me to understand why they believe what they do, I am not naive enough to believe the misunderstandings of protestantism, but it seems you are, and in doing so, like Adam you believe another source other than the Church Christ established in His own blood. Protestantism came 1800 yrs too late to be the true Church, moreover, they are not a church but a multiplicity of different denominations all of whom disagree with each other. They have rays of truth and beauty which must be acknowledged, but they get those truths from the One True Apostolic Holy Mother Catholic Church. So be careful you do not accept his argument as you will be committing a mortal sin
Not saying right now if Gavin (and Protestants) are right on wrong on this, but as a Catholic you should now that you shouldn't believe Christ died to 'cover up' our sins in the eyes of God. That God punished his Son instead of us. Instead you should believe He died as a sacrifice (that pleased God) to earn God's mercy for us . There is no covering up sins, they are mercifully forgiven.
@@adamsynowiec9864 This video does not claim that Christ died to "cover up" our sin, but rather to "cover" them. The difference is that the sins are actually paid for, not just "hidden". Which is actually quite similar to your second sentence "He died as a sacrifice (that pleased God) to earn God's mercy for us" with the additional claim that the sacrifice earned all of Gods mercy for us, and we do not need to additionally earn more via our own merit
@@derpaholic_rex756 The idea someone can forgive someone for doing something to anyone other than themself is the epitome of stupidity. Jim, can not forgive me for mistreating Betty. Anyone who believes that garbage is in bad need of professional help.
@jerrylong6238 Just who's laws do you believe are being transgressed? Do you not know that all sins are rebellion against God and thus a transgression against God?
Do you not understand the ontological grounding of moral laws and duties?
You really need to learn and understand what you are trying to ignorantly condemn. You'd perhaps be less cringe if you did that.
So good. Thanks, Gavin.
This video gave me such a sense of joy. It went beyond just refuting another video, and into proclaiming the wonders and glory of the Gospel. I also like how respectful Dr. Ortlund always is and that he’s genuinely grieved by the fact that people don’t know the Gospel.
One thing I learned from this video is that it's amazing just how important definitions are. When we say the things we say about our faith, not everyone understands what we're actually communicating. And so, it's so important that the speaker stop and consider if they really communicated the idea in a way that the receiver comprehends the meaning, and the receiver pause and consider if they received the message as it was intended. I wonder just how many disagreements could be settled if we were all more careful about doing this.
My wife and I say all the time that "Communication" or the lack there of, is the number one reason for disagreements, arguments, and errors. This holds true in relationships, work, games, etc. If people would communicate correctly the world would be a much better place.
Romans 4:7-8 ESV
"Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven, and whose sins are covered; [8] blessed is the man against whom the Lord will not count his sin."
The question i find that Catholics can't answer is who is the blessed man. Much of the issue stems from an inability to tie Torah and NT together appropriately. they don't understand the dynamic of God historically before the church. Forgiveness of sins then gets misunderstood by Rome as a state of which one can be forgiven then sin freely. This is a focused misconception without a full biblical understanding of Salvation. this is Common among our Roman Catholic brothers and it stems largely from a lens filtered reading of scripture vs a contextual reading.
Scripture states in numerous passages with consistency that the TRUE REGERATE SAVED person (Caps for emphasis not screaming) does not continue sinning but is renewed of the mind in a new 2 state spirit filled existence. Romans 7:25, Galatians 5:17. True regeneration has a completion point promised by the Father. Philippians 1:6 where they overcome the world before death. This is a PROMISE. Christ even said that his sheep hear him and know him. He also made a wildly black and white claim that those he doesnt KNOW are cast into Hell. Therefore salvation is not a losable state but a certainty of true regeneration.
So if you have a concern of people CLAIMING salvation without evidence. James 2:14, then you have a false convert. You cannot be born from above and treat sin like its a candy store then claim the fine is paid. Christ did pay for our sins past present and future but with the bonus that when are are truly saved we change under his love and guidance, not self will. we BECOME like Christ because he brings us to that completion point. And don't confuse forgiveness of sin with escaping corporeal judgment of sin. If you murder someone and become redeemed after this, you are forgiven by God and saved BUT you must still face earthly judgments. Sin has a VERY real corporeal consequence regardless of your heart change.
Psalm 2:12 ESV
Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and you perish in the way, for his wrath is quickly kindled. Blessed are all who take refuge in him.
Refuge in Christ is not a license to sin. Its a state of holiness that Christ gives us in forgiveness to live holy and exhibit the fruits of the spirit. Galatians 5:21-23
this is why we have new deniers of the faith who "say" they were saved but now say they reject. No one speaking in the psrit of God can ever say "Jesus is accursed". And The spirit of God does not leave the believer on a whim of sin.
Romans 8:10,26-27 ESV
But if Christ is in you, although the body is dead because of sin, the Spirit is life because of righteousness. [26] Likewise the Spirit helps us in our weakness. For we do not know what to pray for as we ought, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words. [27] And he who searches hearts knows what is the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints according to the will of God.
The sin of the regenerate vs the sin of the reprobate is the same sin under 2 different laws. One is already damned and the other is forgiven but corrected.
Gavin, this is one of my favorite channels. You content has changed my mind on a number of subjects and coming from an orthodox and now accept Protestants with my questions answered. God bless you, he is using very well and your content has inspired me.
_and now accept Protestants with my questions answered._
There are no such things as "protestants". It's a completely made up term to delegitimize Christians who dissented against the pope. That's all it is. It isn't any more valid than calling those who returned to worship of God rather than continuing to worshiping Baal in the Old Testament "protestants".
@@RaiderWolf-yd6nm There's no such thing as gods. And the Jews who started this religion were sacrificing their first/born sons to this god in the beginning the same way the ones worshiping Baal did. That's where the whole firstborn son horses**t came from in the first place. That's where the Jesus sacrifice comes from too. Anyone who worships such nonsense needs professional help in the worst way. This cult is for evil monsters, not decent human beings.
The Reformation is in all honesty an attempt to hold to the True Faith. It is those who won't repent of their corruption that are in effect rebelling against God and the Faith. Peace to you, brother/sister.
That's not true, they are much more than disagreements than of the papacy. They are also disagreements on Mary, Purgatory, differences in sins (like Mortal Sin), baptism (if you're a Baptist), iconography, there's even a debate of sanctification and other many other subjects. The protestants as a group is term to refer to people who disagree with those views.
Needed this message today, thank God for you and your ministry.
Hello Daniel. Great to see you here. Gavin is such an incredible blessing
I thank God for Protestantism. It lead me to discover my home with Jesus Christ and his whole family in the Catholic Church.
@leojmullins Col 4:6 Your speech must always be with grace, as though seasoned with salt, so that you will know how you should respond to each person.
Which god would that be? Zeus, or Allah?
@@leojmullins I thank Zeus for the Buybull, it led me to Atheism.
Protestants didn't have to find a way to answer this. Paul already addressed it 2000 years ago.
I hear comments like this from Roman Catholics and it affirms that they simply do not read the Bible with any attempt to understand the text.
It's really quite disturbing.
This is so good, Gavin!! And so painful to listen how the guy was disgusted that some sinner will stand in heaven next to him :( what a self-righteous position
Oh God, glory to You for Your mercy and grace!
That is such an uncharitable, straw man understanding of Brian's position.
Can there be sin in heaven? If no then does God magically transform all the sinners into Saints when they die? What was the purpose of this life then, why not just skip straight to that? We all understand that humans are not perfect, so what is the meaning of just making that realization and saying God save me. It's so trivial it seems like God could have just skipped our obvious admission and just saved us. What is the point of creating the whole world and us as flawed individuals for us to just admit, yep God I'm flawed I need your grace, can you save me.
@@jordansehn I'm sorry you have such a limited view of how God works and His purposes for us. God does not "magically transform" followers of Christ when they die. Did you watch the entire video and see the part about glorification?
God keeps His people on earth the glorify Him and take the Gospel to the world, not to give them time to make themselves perfect. How could that work? Would that mean that only people who live a long life get to live with God in eternity?
No person can make themselves perfect and fit for the Kingdom. If we could do that, we would never have needed a Savior.
Christians become more Christlike because they have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit to seal their salvation, guide their walk, and transform them.
Teach Gavin teach! Way to break down our Protestant theology is even to the ones who commit themselves to misunderstand it. God bless you brother pastor. #BaptistBoys
This is so helpful- you have no idea how hard it is as a Catholic to understand the Gospel despite having degrees in theology
"paradigm not an exception." Nicely put.
"The rising of the sun tomorrow is probable, not certain. Your salvation through Jesus Christ, if you trust in Him, is certain. The thief on the cross is a paradigm, not an exception." Had to replay that segment a few times because it is the base of all truth and a powerful way to think about God's intended salvation of broken man.
I thank you for reminding me of how God sees me, I sinned recently and woke up today feeling awful but you reminded me that not only do I need to repent but I also need to accept God’s forgiveness! It feels easier to repent and feel awful than to repent and feel God’s love at times.
Repent of your sins doesn't mean FEEL guilty. This is a lie. Salvation is a Free gift of God in Jesus Christ.
God see us and everything we do.
“If you love me, you will keep my commandments. John 14-15
Keep the faith.
We've all sinned recently, that's the point. No one other than Christ, Jew, RC, Reformed, EO or some other religion has ever lived up to even their own conscience let alone the Law at any point in their life even until death. The reality is while repentance is necessary and good our sin runs deeper than we're ever fully able to recognise and God's grace is deeper still to a point beyond our comprehension.
Feelings. Nothing more than feelings.
This is probably one of my favorite videos of yours. I want to start a gospel segment of my channel, but I realize I don’t know nearly enough. Thanks for spreading truth
It's hard to think that Brian Holdsworth could make that video addressing the "injustice of God" and not know about substitutionary atonement. It baffles my mind to think of how ignorant or deceptive people can be about the basics of Christianity. I'm not being mean-it's just that he doesn't seem like an amateur. Thanks for this video and the kind demeanor.
Seriously like talk about getting caught in the weeds and missing the forest for the trees😂 I do like Brian, but this is a big swing and miss for him
I want to thank you, Dr Ortlund. The way you described the gospel at the end of your video, it has helped me so so much. When i feel so scared and unsure of God's love and forgiveness, your video was a reminder to dare to believe that God runs to me like the prodigal father. Thank you.
"For from his fullness we have all received, grace upon grace." John 1:16
That metaphor of the brush fire is so awesome. Praise God.
Very well articulated! I appreciated your emphasis on not misrepresenting one another in debates like these, because ultimately with respect we can remember that we have some common ground. Nonetheless, thank you for your eloquent response. As someone new to following Christ, this was great for me to hear to know how to rebuff similar objections to Protestantism that I’ve heard. God bless. 💯👌🏽
Great job on this Gavin.
Why can’t this RUclips brother be local so he can teach a class I can attend? Awesome material!!!!
Thank you 😘
Coming from people who think the priest forgives your sins
Jn 20:23
Love the Paul Zahl illustration. Through mockingbird ministries events, my dad (a Methodist minister) has developed a friendship with Zahl, and no one outside of his family offers more consistent encouragement and love than Mr. Zahl. He is a hero of mine.
I remember watching his video and feeling utterly perplexed because I was wondering what on earth he was talking about.
Hallelujah! Thank you for again sharing the Biblical Gospel! We can’t hear it often enough.
Wow. Thank you so much for this. How easy we can forget the power of the gospel in not only the substitutionary nature of the death of Christ, but also the power it has to transform us!
Glad to hear you’re taking a break, also so happy videos are still coming out!
Thank you for talking your time to explain and provide sound reason's/theology for this type of questions.🎉
God bless you.
Thanks for presenting the gospel! Love the brush fire illustration at the end! I've used it in my Bible studies with people and it's a great analogy to explain propitiation.
Kind of amazing that you even have to explain this really.
This video brought me to tears with gratitude for the gospel. I say this as someone whose piety often hinges closer to RC and EO than much of modern Protestantism.
Same here.
Very good presentation of the Gospel! Thanks for making this video pastor Ortlund.
Clear, kind, and God honoring.
I appreciate the dialogue across traditions though I was struck by Brian’s misrepresentation when I first listened as well. Thank you for bringing clarity to the conversation. God bless.
As much as I respect Brian Holdsworth, I must admit that his latest video is a Hyper-Calvinist Strawman of Magisterial Reform.
Well said. I thought something similar.
Yeah. I think it might have landed better if he’s just used “Calvinism” instant of “Protestantism.” But even then I think more legwork might’ve needed to happen.
I third. It was absolutely a strawman, but one that is sadly representative of most criticism of protestantism I see from Catholic and EO sources on RUclips.
A cursory reading of Luther’s catechism kills his premise from jump. It’s amazing the amount of distorted information and straw men presented that gets thousands of views and is taken seriously.
I think it represents yet another issue in protestantism, that all criticism can be deflected as "that's not me, what a caricature".
Nothing other than separation from the apostolic churches binds protestantism. I can agree it paints _one_ doctrine from one protestant sect in an harsh light (if only because the doctrine is obtuse to begin with) but just because there are other sects that disagree with that doctrine, it doesn't mean that there is no issue or that there isn't a practical reality where _this_ doctrine is representative of a significant number of protestants or that this was an issue significant for Holdsworth himself about the sect he came from.
Thank you Gavin, your ministry is a blessing. I pray peace over your house and that the fruit of this ministry multiply.
Thank you, thank you again and again. I just realised again not long before, what you said, about being saved not through works. Thank you for confirmation.
Thanks once again Gavin. Be blessed !
Thank you for doing this video! The story of David came to my mind when listening to Brian's argument.
LOVED this video. Great response. I hope Brian sees it. I like him. He seems like a nice guy.
Hallelujah! What a Savior!
I really enjoyed the third to last segment on the importance of the gospel. I have a friend who is returning to his faith as I once did 20 years ago and he's experiencing these same issues of not fully understanding his salvation. I know God brought us together in order that I might be able to help him through this time of struggle to understand just how forgiven he really is.
Thank you for this! The Gospel is truly awe-inspiring and beautiful…
Side note, I just got The Reformation as Renewal and it looks outstanding
God bless you brother! Great video, learned a lot and was very much encouraged.
I love you. Period. This video is good. Thank you. As a Baptist Collegiate Minister: Yes.
Gavin, you're the first Baptist youtuber I found and I'm so happy about it!
Two of my favourites engaging one another. Looking forward to watching!
I can’t imagine Brian being a favorite of yours. He is either misrepresenting Protestantism on purpose or clueless to Protestantism.
@@stevepanayiotou4004 Never seen him, am a protestant, but he could totally be someone's favorite while having misunderstandings. No need to build walls.
@@stevepanayiotou4004 I've watched Brian for years and have really appreciated his commentary and work on several fronts. I do agree that this recent video of his was not among his strongest. I'm not a Roman Catholic, but have several RC friends, so I can acknowledge what I already know I don't agree with Brian on, and appreciate the rest.
Amazing video, I even started tearing up by the end
This video blessed me as you explained the Gospel. You have taught me much about graciousness in important conversations, even when one side is grossly misrepresented. It is unfortunate that others feel they have the right and need to criticize that which they know little of (apart from the caricatures they have heard) and then plead ignorance when corrected as if it is our responsibility to educate them. Again, I am moved by the way you address his arguments alone rather than getting caught up in the rhetoric, even when you may be justified to do so.
17:50 Can you define what you mean here by, "forsake your sins"? What does that mean practically?
it's to literally turn your back on them. By seeking after what is right in God's eyes, loving God and loving your neighbor, you forsake your sins.
@@cfrost87 Those things are a prerequisite to salvation? How much must you love God and love your neighbor before you are saved? Surely if anyone loved completely they would never sin again, and if they did sin it would show they had not been wholehearted in the original forsaking. What is the measure that one can use to know they were successful in this prerequisite?
@@Nighthawkinlightyup, I was very disappointed to see Gavin condemn easy-believism as ‘not the gospel.’ Should we forsake our sins, of course, but Jesus said that those who believe have eternal life, not those who love and surrender with everything they have, forsaking their sins.
@@optic3621 Belief is always manifested in action and sanctification. If you have no fruits, you have no faith.
Without repentance from sins, there is no remission of them because you cannot live carnally as a slave to sin and be a slave to Christ.
Every penitent believer is the latter.
@@Nighthawkinlight I don't think he meant that as a prerequisite. Instead as a deep desire from the heart to forsake sin that gets expressed in actions. They will still have sins, but surely they won't live like the ungodly in their normal life
Gavin, thank you for this video. I admit I kind of rolled my eyes at Brian's statements. God bless him. It unfortunately seems he's the one lacking an understanding here - an understanding of THE GOSPEL itself. It's frustrating to see the misunderstandings propagate BUT he also is being very honest and that's beautiful because it's often how we find wisdom.
You can't come to faith without repentance and repentance requires self-recognition of sins. It then requires you to desire help and to recognize that help in Jesus - ultimately accepting Christ as savior. We're not perfect over night but a truly repentant heart sticks through the trials of sanctification. I appreciate Brian's honesty but I appreciate your response even more 😉
You must understand that you are out of court with especially the reformed tradition on this question. Brian was correct in his summary. I think that's part of the reason why there is so much coping and dismissal of his statements.
You may not hold to double predestination, but that is explicit in Calvinism and implicit in Luther's works.
That's the issue. One cannot hold to the objective goodness of God in any way that makes sense to humans, Christian other otherwise, and salvation by faith alone. It makes God into a monster. Read the Avaroists, you'll be shocked by how similar their view of God is to the reformers.
@@Silverhailo21Interesting comment. You did not hear anything Gavin said, I think!
@@Silverhailo21 I agree it appears I am not totally on the same page with reformed tradition. To be honest the reason I'm not sure if I 100% conform to the ideas of the reformers is because I don't know every last detail.
Regarding Calvinism: I am very on the fence but I lean away from it personally (I am probably more Molinist currently - but still I'm not done seeking in this area).
Either way, I don' t think this is so complicated.
The Gospel really is just that amazing - it's so good, it's nearly unbelievable. Jesus paid the ultimate price and the door is now open. We still participate though by our free choice to either enter in or stay outside that door. Once inside, we're not done because in this life, God cleanses us of practicing unrighteousness through our cooperation with His will. I fully believe in free will and our ability to reject God's gift. But don't underestimate God's power to influence and call us to His Son. God is the standard of Justice, not us.
In Brian's example, he talks about a criminal doing horrible things. That criminal should go to prison according to our laws. However, out laws are temporal. God is concerned with our heart. That criminal can still repent, bearing the consequences of sin (life in prison) but still be free from the eternal punishment of sin because Jesus already took that on himself. Our justice is a shadow of real justice.
We don't like the idea of a criminal doing despicable things and then getting away with them - certainly that would be unjust. But you don't know what happens in that person's heart - God does. A truly unrepentant sinner will not enter the kingdom. A repentant one will. Only God knows true faith from false faith. We would both hopefully agree that all who come to true faith will be saved.
What a beautiful comment. You're lovely.
@@Silverhailo21 Brian is trying to speak in his video as if all of protestantism is reformed, and hardlined reformed at that. Most of us are not. We do not believe that God is the big Monopoly player in the sky, pardoning who he wants to and not pardoning others. God is gracious and merciful and "whosever will may come".
Much needed response Gavin, Thank you
Thank you for this Dr. Ortlund! A truly christian response. Highlights Jesus Christ more than the scolding of the false claim. Bless you a hundredfold.
Incredible videos my friend! Love the theology and your video production. Looks great.
Omg I'd just seen his video and wanted to send it to you! 😍😍
Amen. Thank you, Gavin.
Man that quote at the end, so great!
Thanks again Gavin. Perfect, as He is perfect.
I am a devout Roman Catholic who used to be a Reformed Baptist, I must say Brian sets up a massive straw man argument.
Could you elaborate?
Oh the original video was Brian. I understand, sorry.
Where’s the strawman, could you kindly explain?
@@Mkvine Jesus paid the death on the cross. Therefore, the analogy is more like a man who has a fine to pay here in the USA, where legally someone else can pay the fine. Jesus paid the penalty on the cross. In the strawman in the video, there is no paid penalty, we all just get to go free by God's mercy with no justice. Both protestants and Catholics affirm that Jesus's death paid for our sins. The argument that Brian gives is that "God is that judge who sets the murderer free with no apparent rhyme or reason." This is not what Protestants believe about God's justice and mercy. Do you understand now how this is a strawman? The response I usually get by explaining something like this to the person who asks is that they argue with me and try to continue to make Protestantism out to be whatever they want it to be or thought it was. I hope you're actually wanting to know what protestants actually believe and not just trying to be a sarcastic know it all. And if you're not, sorry if that sounded harsh, I'm sick of continuously getting those kinds of replies.
@@JosephLachh I hear what you’re saying and I can sympathize with your position. But just for me to be clear, when you say Jesus paid for our sins, what exactly do you mean? Was he punished with the penalty for sin?
@@Mkvine Jesus died on the cross and thereby paid the penalty for all sin. Therefore, one cannot rightfully argue that the way of salvation, as the protestants see it, is forgiveness with "no rhyme or reason," and "God's mercy with no justice."
So thankful for your thoughtful and kind presentations and responses
Guys like you and Trent Horn are the gold standard for ecumenical dialogue. Although I disagree with you I respect you tremendously
This message made my day! I love Catholics, so I'm delighted with your presentation of what real justice and real mercy look like.
Beautiful analogy at the end ❤
You and Mike Winger's channel are one of the best channel I've seen so far
Substitutionary atonement . Such a simple answer to the question.
Amen.
Jesus paid the fine
Let them be trees full of fruits of repentance
That's so awesome. You should absolutely do a video on textual criticism and the received text.
I’m a Catholic and I appreciate this response from you, Gavin. I think this leads to a discussion on Penal Substitution (Protestant view) vs Satisfaction (Catholic view).
I’m expecting a Trent Horn response to this sometime this week.
I hope Trent Horn does respond. It was a clear case of Brian not fully thinking things through, or else not understanding things completely. Horn is more articulate. This will be a great chance for him to refute Brian and show Catholics that this was not a good representation of Protestantism.
I also hope Trent Horn responds. Not because I care about the debate or want (as someone else here suggested) for Trent Horn to "refute Brian". Rather, it will be good to see -- in a more sophisticated format -- where Protestant theology fails.
@@dpg321 Spoken like a true papist, well done lol
@@dpg321Youre relying on Trent Horn to tell you what to believe? 🤔
It would be super cool to have another Gavin v Trent debate about Sanctification (Protestants believe in Substitution and sanctification). J. C. Ryle has a great chapter on the Protestant view of Sanctification in his book “Holiness”.
Great video Gavin. I am watching from Australia. I am an ex-catholic. Jesus saved me in 2016. I heard the gospel at a baptist church and believed in Jesus alone for my salvation and from then on my life has been completely transformed. You may like to know the majority of my family have come to a saving faith in Christ. It's very simple, the roman church has a false gospel, please Gavin always make that clear when talking about romanism, they have a counter-fit gospel. God bless you from the land of the kangaroo ;)
You’re blaspheming Jesus who founded His One True Church Mt 17 18-19 which became known as the Catholic or Universal Church in 110. The CC is the pillar & foundation of Truth 1 Tim 3:15 & she gave us the codified bible in 382 from which Luther removed 7 books without authority Deut 4:2
Another steady and consistent rebuttal Gavin. Thank you, for representing Protestantism as it is and not how so many falsify it to be. May Christ abound in your life.
Which protest-ism though? "Protestantism," capital P, doesn't really exist, not as a unified theology anyway. The only way that "Protestanitism" is a monolith is in the sense that it's defined as being "not Catholic." In terms of theology, there is going to be more Protestant sects disagreeing with this video (in various permutations) than not.
That's the real problem, and the elephant in the room: Protestantism is a hodge podge of different religions; there is no unified theology, no magisterial teaching authority, no universally recognized Apostolic succession of authority, and (in many cases) some or even all of the seven Sacraments are absent.
God can choose to forgive sinners because it is against him we have sinned.
I actually really like this answer.
However I think atheists will call you out on it, because we also often sin against each other, and it sounds a little bit like a dismissal of human victims' rightful claim to justice.
I'd rather reframe the debate about justice in terms of "revenge." If you make the Catholic conception of "justice" (the rendering to each that which he is due, IIRC) as pure vindictiveness, then you shift the burden of proof onto the one who thinks it is necessary.
If you temporarily set aside the concept of justice, then an all-powerful God could simply choose to arbitrarily forgive, like a loving father usually forgives his own children, "unconditionally." Atheists and Catholics will both respond that you are accusing God of favoritism, but I think there's a strong argument for the claim that this is precisely what God does - for *all* His children (which defeats the favoritism objection) - and that it is their own rejection of God's unconditional forgiveness that eventually condemns people to eternal separation from Him.
This has the advantage of also being much closer to the Catholic position on the subject, and, therefore, much more difficult for them to refute.
@@Vulture402
You're talking about sufficient Grace. In any case, justice can't be overlooked because it's part of God's nature and God can't be incongruous.
@Qwerty-jy9mj if justice is part of God's nature then we'd better derive a tentative definition of justice from observing His behavior, rather than working backward by expecting His behavior to conform to any understanding of justice we can propose.
@@Vulture402
Is justice not a virtue?
@Qwerty-jy9mj if it's something God does, then it's good. That's all I know.
We have this abstract concept that we call judgement because, in the west, we have depersonalized government. Justice/judgment in the west are parts of an impersonal system in which humans happen to participate. When the Bible was written, there was nothing abstract about judgement. It was defined, simply, as "the thing judges do." As an example of this way of thinking, Proverbs makes the astonishing claim, "a divine sentence is on the lips of the king. His mouth does not transgress in judgement." Astonishing for us, that is - until the advent of "equality before the law, " it would have seemed more like stating the obvious. Where we govern by principle, everyone else throughout history has governed by means of direct personal force.
Divine Justice is no more or less than the judgment calls that God makes on a case-by-case basis, which are all correct (ie, "fair" or "just") by definition. Our most successful attempts imitate His judgment calls are the ones that are closest to His idea of "justice," but there's no way for us to know what He would do in every situation, because we can never fully know the details of *any* situation, let alone what He might do (and has done) in situations we can't even conceive of. So our own limited conception of divine justice must remain tentative, contingent on God's behavior, not the other way around.
Tl;Dr there is no reasonable argument about what God could/would ever do based on our limited, human ideas of justice, because whatever God does is just by definition.
Man you crushed this. Thank you for making this video.
Very good. Thank you for the thought full response and setting the record straight.
Love the work you are doing Gavin.
Brian really set the ball nicely on the tee for you this time, Gavin. Too easy. Who could neglect such a wonderful opportunity to explain the gospel.
This was very providential, Dr. Ortlund! I have recently decided I want to study the atonement. I had just previously came from the Boyd vs Craig on Unbelievable about penal substitution. I've recently purchased several books about the atonement as well. I am preparing myself for the book I am going to write on my view of soteriology. So I must know the basics well! Thank you for helping me in this! I love your quotes from the church fathers! I loved your quote from Romans! I find little reason to deny substitutionary atonement due to what I have studied so far.
If we have a substituonary atonement instead of one of propitiation why did Jesus not go to hell? If he is dying and getting punished in your place why isn't he in hell?
Dr. Ortlund, Brian Holdsworth just released a RUclips video today (9/29/23) titled "What Do I Think Of Pope Francis Now" which Protestants will say upon listening to it, "Wow, Brian can now identify with Martin Luther!" In the video at the 2.07 minute mark he states "the strongest evidence we have of bad leadership, in principle, is division and conflict among the faithful." That sounds like something Martin Luther would have said 500 years ago as Martin Luther was just wanting to be faithful to what Jesus and the Apostles taught. Now I'm liking what Brian stated in referring to himself, and others like him, as the faithful ones even though there is division within the Roman Catholic Church. Protestants, in borrowing Brian's words, should be referring to themselves as the faithful ones. Later in the video, at the 9:50 to 10:01 minute segment, Brian states ( I summarize) my hope is this experience will wake us up to the call of holiness and virtue more seriously, so we can be the kind of people that can reform the Church. Yes, Brian is wanting to reform the Catholic Church...that's Martin Luther!!
I know there is much anguish going on within the Roman Catholic Church as the Synod of Synodality begins next week. Hopefully many within the RCC will now have a better understanding of Martin Luther's concern for the Church 500 years ago, and what you were pointing out in this video, that Catholics like Brian need to understand substitutionary atonement. Thank you Dr. Ortlund for sharing your insight and wisdom.
Gavin, you truly spoil us. The sneak peek is more than we deserve.
Crazy misrepresentation by Holdsworth. Thank you for your response, it was truly beautiful
8:03 "The answer is - Substitutionary Atonement". Amen. If more of us Protestants understood what the Sanctuary was all about, we would be much clearer and firm about what we believe.
Thanks bro. God bless you
Great video and explanation. One thing that I think gets overlooked when either side is defending their view is that grace and salvation does not exempt or remove us from the consequences of our sin. I have always had an issue with the analogy of the court room judge when explaining grace. A better one would be of a son or daughter going to the father (how just so happens to be the most high judge) and the father saying "yes you messed up (maybe even really bad) but I still love you, accept you and will walk through this with you. Now let's get you cleaned up and get you back on track."
I have found that the Godly demonstrate love and humility.
There are many teachers who may know the letter of the word but don't demonstrate their understanding in their behaviors.
You do.
Thank you for your ministry!
Asking for prayer for my neighbor Gary who is dealing out of his house. I pray that yesterday when I asked that his "customers" not park on my property that God spoke directly to him. I know deep down he is a good man and I pray that God will open his eyes before it is too late.
Thank you for this video - God bless everyone. Thank you for your videos. God's grace is amazing.
I appreciate correcting the ignorance
Wow. We really need to share the gospel more and more.
Be Hot not warm! Ask Jehovah for the cheat code for infinite fuel in that lamp of yours!
@@xAxMxWx You do not have to wait for that, I will tell you. It is up up, down, down, left, right, b, and a.
@@dman7668 you forgot start button at the end but yes that is the code I recited in my prayer funny enough