Unfortunately the church is not equipping and training us in our gifts and talents making disciples to go and do, they just want the pew ministry for numbers and money...
I was a Youth Pastor for 13 years. I quit in 2006, and been preaching this same thing ever since. I could not get most parents to disciple their own kids. Very sad. Anyway, I got out because I realized I was doing more harm than good by separating these kids from their parents in worship. We had 2 churches, the youth ministry was about 300 strong and almost totally independent of the adults. Lets stop this foolishness! PREACH VODDIE!!
And some of us just don't believe your Christian beliefs or that a god even exists. it's about the beliefs man, not whether my parents are with me in church.
I'm a youth pastor and I've been urging the church parents to get involved in their youth spiritual lives. I totally agree with Dr Baucham. I feel that our parents are relying on the church to teach their kids. I'm so glad that I stumbled onto this video
Juan Mercedes I also am a youth pastor and I agree it lies within the home. But when they’re not being spiritually fed at home I’m thankful God has blessed and graced me with the opportunity to fill that void. I agree “a lot” of ministries are all about the games and then 5-10 minute devotions. I’ve stood on my convictions and always preached 30-45 minute sermons. And then my wife and I are relational with them. We never separate for Sunday worship service. I’m a firm believer in discipleship! Disciples making disciples!
I disagree with his matter on this subject.. and here is the foundation for Youth Ministry or any other ministry that any Christian maybe be led to start! 1 Corinthians 12:4-6 4 “There are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5There are differences of ministries, but the same Lord. 6And there are diversities of activities, but it is the same God who works all in all.”
Now the Holy Spirit through Paul turns to diversity and catalogue of spiritual gifts. God’s plan for the church is diversity, not uniformity, in spiritual gifts. Each member of the Trinity has a role in spiritual gifts: the Holy Spirit distributes the gifts, the Lord places people in ministry, and the Father empowers people to do ministry. There are varieties in gifts, ministries, and effects but they all have sameness in the Trinity. God’s doctrine is diversity in unity, not uniformity.
12:4 There are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. The word “gift” is the Greek word charismata. The charis part of the word means grace. The ma portion of the word is the passive suffix meaning that it is a grace given. They are grace-gifts. God did the giving or bestowing of the gift upon us. These gifts are not native within us like natural talents. Both Christian and non-Christian alike share capacity for talent but only Christians have spiritual gifts. A gift is a special, supernatural enablement or capacity to do the work of God. Spiritual gifts are not natural capacities; they are supernaturally bestowed capacity. “Diversities” means distributions, distinctions, allotments, apportionments. The word suggests a separation of something already joined together. God distributes gifts in many varieties. No one gets all the “gifts” for there are different kinds for different people. There are about 20 gifts listed in the New Testament (Ephesians 4:7-11; 1 Corinthians 12:6-8; 1 Peter 4:11). The “same Spirit” is the Holy Spirit, the third member of the Trinity. The Holy Spirit is the source of all gifts. Sameness comes from source. 12:5 There are differences of ministries, but the same Lord. As there are diversities of gifts, there are differences of ministry opportunity as well. The word “differences” is the same Greek word as “diversities” in verses four and six. The word “ministries” means forms of services. The plural means different kinds of services. It is possible to have the same gift but have a different ministry. Some may use the gift of evangelism in child evangelism while others may use it on the campus. There is variety in uses of gifts. God does not give special supernatural capacities for the self but to serve. It is the “same Lord,” that is, the second person of the Trinity, that gives different kinds of service. All ministries represent Christ. We are here to represent Him. 12:6 And there are diversities of activities, but it is the same God who works all in all. The third category of “diversities” is “activities.” The word “activities” means effects and literally has the idea of what is worked out or energized. This word in the Greek (energemata - energizing) means manifestations of the Spirit’s power as over against human power. This is operational power. God empowers the effect. As with gifts and ministries, God gives different effects or results to ministry. There are different results from the use of gifts. God gives some ministries more fruit than others. Ministries to Muslims do not have the same fruit as other ministries. It is the “same God,” that is, God the Father who works “all in all.” God works all the gifts in all persons. PRINCIPLE: God loves diversity, not uniformity. APPLICATION: God loves diversity. He does not use a cookie-cutter to stamp out the same pattern of gifts. Diversity has its underpinning in God Himself. He makes Christians wonderfully different from each other. A choir is one but has at least four sections: bass, tenor, alto, and soprano. Each contributes to a unity of beautiful music. This is more beautiful than a choir of all sopranos. There are many members in the choir but there is only one conductor. A football team with uniformity of all guards is not very exciting or effective. The Christian does not have anything to say about whether he plays guard or quarterback. Spiritual gifts do not indicate merit or spirituality. We do not have a gift because we are better than someone else or because we have had a certain kind of experience. None of us earns or deserves a gift. It is something we discover and use. We cannot say, “What a great person I am because I have such-and-such gift.” What gifts we possess reside in the sovereign decision of God the Trinity. God gives special, supernatural gifts to every Christian without exception. Each gift is as important as any other gift. God specially designs each gift for each believer. We cannot do God’s work without special endowment of a spiritual gift. Christian work is simply exercising our spiritual gift. There is no difference between a preacher and a plumber. There is no such thing as a “layman.” We can neglect our gift or fail to use it but if we do, it will atrophy. If we do not use a muscle, it will atrophy and become weaker and weaker. The Holy Spirit enables us to use our gifts.
@@NemoJones314 let me help you a bit. Sunday School is not Biblical. It is the rabbinic school that was. They became catechumenal schools in the Early Church. They were a school program but not an age-segregated worship programme. So let's get it straight. If kids are not worshipping with their parents every Sunday it is a danger. Do Sunday School after Church. Youth Ministry midweek. Let the kids sit with their parents
@@NemoJones314 and no there is a big difference between a cleric and a layman. Jesus was a Jewish Rabbi, a cleric, and was teaching his disciples for 3 years in a mobile Seminary to become Rabbis. A layman is one who is in discernment for clerical ministry. Period. So you are either a Rabbi or Disciple in the Christian Church. A Rabbi helps others to discern their calling to ministry whether as ordained, consecrated or lay Ministers. If you are not doing any of these 3 ministries you are a layman. So let's quit minimising ministry in our eyes. Find a Ministry through the help of your cleric. Once you are helped to discern pursue it with all your heart. The disciples were fishermen, tax collectors, etc. Jesus called them to consecrated and ordained ministry so you can't claim being a plumber is of the same rank before God.
@@NemoJones314 I respect your take but your error must be pointed out. Both the gifts of The Spirit and the fruits are both outlined in Scripture. Your argument somehow eisegetes youth ministry into the "gifts" when Scripture is clear as to what those are. "Gifted" is not the same as gifts of the Spirit. To God Be The Glory.
My comment may not be very popular with many, but I can say from personal experience, that one of the vital factors that played in to my staying active in the church post- high school, was the fact that many men were willing to spend time with me and take me under their wing. The youth group depressed me because it (sadly) was all about popularity. Sad to say, even some of the youth leaders fell into that and cliques were formed. I remained involved in my church youth group, but ventured out more into other areas of ministry. Why? Good, godly, mature men took time for me. I think it's unfair to lay that on one pastor/person. The church needs adults to be invested in young people's lives.
I'm with you, I felt a great burden lifted off my shoulders the moment i knew i was done with youth group. No more popular "all about me" high school like drama. Lucky for me my Dad instilled the reading and love of the Word of God in me when I was little and I still love His Word now. If it weren't for that, I may not be involved in the church because of how horrible and man centered our youth group was.
It is this reason exactly that in our youth ministry we focus on everyone. We look out for the people that would be considered "outcasts". I want everyone to feel like they are safe and are apart of a new family the moment they walk through the doors
Your comment does not surprise me at all. As Voddie has said in one of his messages; the concept of dividing children based on age groups is Darwinian and is in no way Biblical. The Bible refers to children as "fools" so what the church is doing is putting fools together with other fools. Not to mention that the leaders of these groups have very little reformed understanding of scripture. So you have a fool teaching other fools! Not Good! From my own personal experience trying to find a Church that is not liberal, I figure only about 20% of Church goers are saved! "The heart of man is only evil continually" Unsaved children are EVIL, my friend! My heart goes out to you. Voddie is truly blessed by God. Please learn as much as you can from him and study, study, study, the word of God. Do not be conformed to this world, but instead be transformed by the renewing of your mind. God Bless
This is really interesting to me. As a kid, I was really shy and kind of a loner and so despite the urging of my parents, I never went to youth group. Today, some 15 years later, of all those kids in my age group that went to youth, I am the one of a handful that still go to church today. In a weird way, my introversion saved me I think and I ended spending a lot of time with my parents and being mentored and discipled by them.
Brilliant! I hated Sunday school, same bible stories every year, never getting down to the nitty gritty of scripture. I fought my parents hard to stop going and stay in the service so I could hear the preaching instead. I was blessed to have parents that taught me well in theology from a young age and it caused me to have such an unsatisfied attitude about Sunday school and youth group. So good to hear what Voddie has to say on the matter!
I agree. My brother's little boy learned at home to memorize huge chunks of scripture then went to Sunday school and were told to learn "God is love." Same with my little guy. He knows every OT story, and gets bored at Sunday school but has trouble sitting still for sermons.
@Cat Mein ok, but what if youth group is thought of as a way to primarily meet new friends and create fellowships? I get what Voddie is saying but wouldn't fellowship with other believers, hanging out with friends, and finding new friends be a good thing? Even despite lack of good theology, youth ministry can bring together accountability partners and spiritual mentors right? I dont see a problem there
@@ethancundiff6422 fellowship with other believers is a good thing. But without good theology/teaching then it won't be helpful. It's not biblical. What good is a spiritual mentor if they are not spiritually more mature and know the scriptures well?
It really is sad that you hated SS. If only your teachers would have taught you how every one of of those stories was a picture of Christ, and the stories of Christ were fulfillment of prophecies about Him. You might have appreciated it more. I personally love the story of the Noah's Ark, and how the ark was a picture of Christ. The ark was pitched with pitch (which is the same Hebrew word for atonement) so it could be the ark was atoned so it was able to lift Noah and his family out of the judgement that was falling on the world. Likes the atoning blood of Christ is able to lift US out of judgement that is falling on the world. That is just one of the ways the ark pictures Christ. Wow I am still amazed by the beauty of the Bible. Guess where i heard the story of Noah's ark first? In Sunday School. :0)
This is a direct result of the dumbing down of the preaching and the rock and roll mentality. We have entertained our youth to the point of spiritual death. The true reason the youth are leaving church is because there is no substance to it. It's just like their home life or school life, entertaining.
As a person who has worked in this kind of programs, I have to say that I agree with everything said here. One of the most frustrating things I experienced was the morning one of the guys in my group showed up late, and obviously tired because of a lack of sleep, and told me "I'm going to be honest with you. I was partying all night long and I just came not to let you down." Whatever I was trying to do with them was nullified by all their parents allow them to do. As the Pastor said, if it's not done in the house by the parents, it's not gonna get done by others. Just as somebody said in one of the comments, I have spoken against it and been looked at as crazy. The fact for me is it doesn't work.
I attend a church where everyone worships together. The youth are on the ball. We don't need separation. We need families to step up and do the work. Watch the video.
I am a hard hitting drummer, church music director, advocate of new technology and diversity of musical styles. We homeschool our children who sit in worship services as a family. I am a youth ministry abolitionist. (Just in case anyone thought that no such person exists). and yes, I am very controversial in my church. Everything in this video is consistent with my observations. This video should be mandatory viewing for all church leadership struggling with this issue in their churches.
Oh, Amen! +Kent Keller I agree wholeheartedly with your comment! I, too, am a "new" youth ministry abolitionist. I hs our dtr and I was (notice "was") the church secretary and refused to send our daughter to YG after a couple of tries. Sadly, my husband and I encouraged her (due to our pastor and new kids/youth leadership) to go a couple of times and ended up having to debrief her each time. She didn't like it and she quickly realized that it was all about fun games and popularity and not about Biblical teaching - which is what we teach in our home. We were not very popular with other parents regarding our decision not to allow her to take part in the "socialization" with kids her own age. She actually enjoys attending the services with us and we are blessed by that!
Biblical socialization is more inline with Titus 2. Older mentoring younger. These proper relationships are nearly impossible in the Youth Ministry churches. Young, immature kids lead other young immature kids. The goal is reaching them for a profession of faith via a sinner's prayer. But the great commission is about discipleship, not mere profession.
I think one of the key ideas that drive youth ministries is the idea that we need to train up the "Next Generation" which is assumed to be the millennial generation. This idea is fundamentally wrong. It assumes that new church members come from under the church. The truth is that new members come in sideways; coming from all age groups and backgrounds. Rather than age segregate, the church needs to train up all age groups. Old people are not to be "Put out to pasture". They need to train their grandchildren and other seniors. Young people should concentrate on learning instead of immediate leadership roles.
Young minister who would like to hear the views of all the "abolitionists". (Apologies now for being long-winded".) I have a passion for the youth, but I'm struggling with it for two reasons. One: I feel like the class divide is splitting me. I started teaching youth last year, which I loved. At the beginning of this year I was given the opportunity to teach adults. Now it seems I've been labeled an exceptional teacher who "should preach to adults", which has me torn. On one end, it's an honor to be viewed as an able teacher to adults. And they've really given me the ball here. On the othe end, I hate how youth is treated as "small time", or a stepping stone. And there are times I'm teaching adults that I really wish the kids were in the room because they need the message just the same! Two: When I do teach youth I feel elated....yet useless at times. I love it, but can't help feel like something is off. Like they could get so much more somehow. I think this video really hits on why I'm feeling this way. Pulling the youth away from regular service and dividing them by age is boxing us all in. And we're being boxed in entirely seperate boxes....in opposite corners of the room. But how do we change this? Or work around/through this? I've tried to combine/teach multiple age groups when a teacher was missing, but our coordinators let me know that's frowned upon, and would rather opt to pluck another "teacher" for the sanctuary who wasn't prepared. (Even though it would have been adding a couple 8th graders to 9th and 10th graders). In our lagging mentorship program (which I've taken over and am trying to get going), I would like the mentors to not be the only connection for our youth. But instead act as hub, who helps them connect with people in multiple groups. (I.e. I take my mentee and another youth to do tasks for one of our elderly, then doing something fun like see a movie. So my mentee is now building three different relationship and not just one with me). But again, people seem apprehensive. (About the idea, and just mentoring in general). Summary: Everyone seems comfortable being completely isolated, but it kills me. How do we shift that thinking if we're not the Lead Pastor? (Should we even attempt to, or just accepted this is what our leader has put in place? I don't ever want to be viewed as disobedient.)
Great video! I grew up in a church with a youth group. I always wanted to attend an adult bible study, but I thought that I wasn't allowed. I never made friends in youth group, accept with my teachers, who poured Godly wisdom into my life. I am currently finishing up at university and I am one of the 30% who found a church in my college town. I am so grateful for the perspective my new church has given me. It was planted about 3 years ago and due to a lack of resources, we never developed a youth ministry. We do have a children's ministry, but it is only for children under the age of nine who are unable to sit through an hour long sermon. The children still worship, pray and commune with the adults though. Children who are mature enough to stay through the sermon are encouraged to do so. I love to hear the children join in with singing and praying aloud. We also have a catechesis hour prior to the service which is open to both adults and children during which one of the pastors leads a group discussion about the basic truths of the Christian faith. Not dividing by age has so many benefits. I now have friendships with people in many stages and walks of life. Everyone is free to fellowship with everyone else. This is how the church was meant to be. The children are amazingly mature. I have witnessed 11 and 12 year olds confidently engaging in theological discussions with adults three times their age. It was beautiful. Intigration will be a strange and trying experience in some ways, it will take patience on the part of the adults. We can not allow ourselves to get frustrated if a child needs further clarification or occassionally makes a sound in the service. If we allow him, God will mature us through this process just as much as he will mature the children. How can we expect spiritual maturity from young people if the only people they know from church are other young people who are equally immature? I also feel the same way about campus ministries. Yes, let's minister to students on college campuses. They desperately need it, but campus ministries need to plug into a church, not just stay on campus. College students need christian mentors to lean on as they make the transition into living on their own.
I have been and still actively involved in teens ministry here in Kenya. For the close to 16 years that I have interacted with many churches here that have continued to heavily borrow their models from the US in particular, I have found myself on the wrong side of the argument when I emphasized 1) That the Parents are the Primary disciplers and we can only be secondary. That we ought to better equip them instead of making the teens more and more dependent on us as their pastors. 2) That we do NOT need to 'entertain', by continually trying to bring the world, -by what is trending into the church-rather teach and train them in the Bible, establish relationships and remain authentic to them in order to reach the individual, instead of target group. 3) That we remain mentors to them and thus we don't need to look cool, dress like or talk like them, even to the point of compromise. I was labelled old school and impractical. 4) That the over used models where only practical in the US where they were originated and over dependence on what others are doing is a killer to creativity as guided by God's Spirit. Instead of replicating and duplicating, why don't we allow God to do what He does best, Create through us. You gorrit, "I was branded anti change, development, resistant, not a team player" That has led me to continually advocate for a dependance on God in empowering the parents to be the Primary disciplers to their children as commanded in scripture. It may look like a small start but I have seen impact in the last 10yrs....so help me God...
"Everything that youth ministers say is the answer already exists in the home. But what they will not say is, the home is where the answer lies." ♥ 20:14
I highly respect Voddie, but I think he swung and missed on this one. His extreme stance on this, saying that the Bible mentions nothing at all about the principle being discussed here, is simply misguided. 1 Cor 3:1-3 3 But I, brothers, could not address you as spiritual people, but as people of the flesh, as infants in Christ. 2 I fed you with milk, not solid food, for you were not ready for it. And even now you are not yet ready, 3 for you are still of the flesh. Clearly Paul here declares that infants in Christ (regardless of age), should be fed milk, and NOT solid food, because they are not ready for it. Hebrews 5:11-14 11 About this we have much to say, and it is hard to explain, since you have become dull of hearing. 12 For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you again the basic principles of the oracles of God. You need milk, not solid food, 13 for everyone who lives on milk is unskilled in the word of righteousness, since he is a child. 14 But solid food is for the mature, for those who have their powers of discernment trained by constant practice to distinguish good from evil. This is crystal clear that babes in Christ SHOULD be taught something different than the mature in Christ. (milk vs. meat). Paul believed that infants in Christ NEED milk until they are ready for meat. My question is - How does Voddie teach the children among him in his services what they need (milk), while also teaching the mature what they need (meat)? Of course parents are called to train their children in the instruction of the Lord. Assuming that parents don't train their kids because a kid goes to church to be taught milk, while a parent is taught meat, is an unnecessary assumption that in no way impacts the fact that infants need milk and the mature need meat, at least according to Paul.
Wow. This was very convicting and if I'm honest, as someone who teaches at a once a week children's ministry, I am begining to see the lack of fruit this really produces. this has given me a lot to think about. Thank you.
jesseschulz214 Isaiah 55:11 How, from our limited view of eternity, can we qualify something as "fruitless". I've had things said to me 30 yrs ago, that didn't bear fruit until I was in a place to understand & apply it. Our only job is to plant the seed with Truth & Grace, & water it as often as we can. We are in no position to know the change that may take place in a person's heart/actions through the course of their lives. Only God decides when/how his word bears fruit
J Betts It great that God has called youth lessons to your remembrance in adulthood. But it's also important that youth are provided lessons they can apply now. Think of how much strife and hurt can be avoided if they apply the Word no verses waiting several decades? Young people are completing youth ministry with no real life change at that point. I think that's what he's getting at.
I am a brand new youth Pastor, pretty much brand new to youth ministry, and it's very hard for me not to agree with the arguments being made in this video. I've never heard anthing like this, and it's blowing my mind. I'm going to pray and study and research and make my own conclusion, but man.... I feel like He's really onto something and we as a culture, as a collective whole are just not ready for the change he is talking about. And that makes me sad.
I think that we need to remember that not only church kids come to youth groups and activities. Not all families are equipped, or equally yoked to present a solid front @ home. I would challenge you, my brother, to pray, talk to others, share the video and discuss it w/ others. Changes can certainly be made, in all ministries and outreaches, but I believe it should be a discussion, not just buying into everything in this video. If I were a new Youth Pastor, I think this video might make me feel defeated or even question my calling. Don't let that happen to you. God has a plan for you and for the training and gifts He has blessed you with. Like all of us, we just need to keep moving forward in faith. Blessings to you and your ministry (in whatever form it might take.)
@@Ania_Naomi96 It's based on Finneyism. It's easier to sell something to children, and then drag the parents along behind them. That's the theory anyways.
I’m with you Daniel I’ve never heard this before. I’m not in ministry but I’ve always had a heart for the young people. I am opening my eyes to this and still need to ask and do more research. However I think we could question so many things like marriage conferences, marriage counseling. None of those things are in the Bible. And yet are completely necessary to edify marriages in the church. We have an enemy. I don’t think we need to separate the youth from the parents in service but complement the regular Sunday service with a youth meeting. It’s necessary in a different way. If we don’t make a space for the youth to gather, make friends, minister to one another, the enemy/the world will have a stronger pull. That’s just my opinion though obviously.
If we can recognize that children and youth learn and understand things at different ages than adults do then this justifies the purpose of youth ministry.
I highly respect Voddie, but I think he swung and missed on this one. His extreme stance on this, saying that the Bible mentions nothing at all about the principle being discussed here, is simply misguided. 1 Cor 3:1-3 3 But I, brothers, could not address you as spiritual people, but as people of the flesh, as infants in Christ. 2 I fed you with milk, not solid food, for you were not ready for it. And even now you are not yet ready, 3 for you are still of the flesh. Clearly Paul here declares that infants in Christ (regardless of age), should be fed milk, and NOT solid food, because they are not ready for it. Hebrews 5:11-14 11 About this we have much to say, and it is hard to explain, since you have become dull of hearing. 12 For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you again the basic principles of the oracles of God. You need milk, not solid food, 13 for everyone who lives on milk is unskilled in the word of righteousness, since he is a child. 14 But solid food is for the mature, for those who have their powers of discernment trained by constant practice to distinguish good from evil. This is crystal clear that babes in Christ SHOULD be taught something different than the mature in Christ. (milk vs. meat). Paul believed that infants in Christ NEED milk until they are ready for meat. My question is - How does Voddie teach the children among him in his services what they need (milk), while also teaching the mature what they need (meat)? Of course parents are called to train their children in the instruction of the Lord. Assuming that parents don't train their kids because a kid goes to church to be taught milk, while a parent is taught meat, is an unnecessary assumption that in no way impacts the fact that infants need milk and the mature need meat, at least according to Paul.
I really love listening to Voddie. I have been a believer for nearly 30 years and have a couple theology degrees. His ideas are so challenging to me at times. I love listening to him speak because he is so well thought out, well spoken and educated. voddie, if you ever read this.... thank you for being who you are
I highly respect Voddie, but I think he swung and missed on this one. His extreme stance on this, saying that the Bible mentions nothing at all about the principle being discussed here, is simply misguided. 1 Cor 3:1-3 3 But I, brothers, could not address you as spiritual people, but as people of the flesh, as infants in Christ. 2 I fed you with milk, not solid food, for you were not ready for it. And even now you are not yet ready, 3 for you are still of the flesh. Clearly Paul here declares that infants in Christ (regardless of age), should be fed milk, and NOT solid food, because they are not ready for it. Hebrews 5:11-14 11 About this we have much to say, and it is hard to explain, since you have become dull of hearing. 12 For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you again the basic principles of the oracles of God. You need milk, not solid food, 13 for everyone who lives on milk is unskilled in the word of righteousness, since he is a child. 14 But solid food is for the mature, for those who have their powers of discernment trained by constant practice to distinguish good from evil. This is crystal clear that babes in Christ SHOULD be taught something different than the mature in Christ. (milk vs. meat). Paul believed that infants in Christ NEED milk until they are ready for meat. My question is - How does Voddie teach the children among him in his services what they need (milk), while also teaching the mature what they need (meat)? Of course parents are called to train their children in the instruction of the Lord. Assuming that parents don't train their kids because a kid goes to church to be taught milk, while a parent is taught meat, is an unnecessary assumption that in no way impacts the fact that infants need milk and the mature need meat, at least according to Paul.
I found a Church i like. The pastor is amazing and preach the word of God. I was concern about that fact they have no Sunday school most of the people inside the church are old age people and the church itself is small. I was so worried about my kids are not able to make friends by not having a Sunday school. Well glad I found this video I got my answer tonight. I won't leave the church I love because of no Sunday school. We will teach our kids at home, and they can listen to the service.
I was in youth ministry for 23 years. I saw the good and the bad. However he is not addressing other things that we have institutionalized. I enjoy his preaching. He preaches behind a pulpit. The pulpit along with flags of the Nation on stage and pews and folding chairs and steeples....
Brother Baucham i praise almighty God for raising a man like you, i pray that the Lord will raise more and more passionate men for his Glory. God bless you and your wonderful family. Your sermons on family made me want many more kids, we’re in the process please pray for us. much love in Christ Jesus.
I absolutely agree, in high school I started to go to church again and it was so great in the beginning. I was applying the word and God was speaking to me and I was growing until they wanted to push me into pretty much being a babysitter. It became harder and harder to get to church because I didn't have rides and one Sunday I was finally able to make it and right after worship I was so excited to hear the sermon just to be pulled aside and told it was my turn to teach the children. I don't even have children of my own but I did it and I was so deeply sadden. These churches are giving these young teens that don't know anything yet to care and teach others children and its not right. I hated Sunday school as a kid and then I just ended up hating the church all together. Thank the Lord my heart has changed and I'm seeking Him again but man it has been a wild ride.
I highly respect Voddie, but I think he swung and missed on this one. His extreme stance on this, saying that the Bible mentions nothing at all about the principle being discussed here, is simply misguided. 1 Cor 3:1-3 3 But I, brothers, could not address you as spiritual people, but as people of the flesh, as infants in Christ. 2 I fed you with milk, not solid food, for you were not ready for it. And even now you are not yet ready, 3 for you are still of the flesh. Clearly Paul here declares that infants in Christ (regardless of age), should be fed milk, and NOT solid food, because they are not ready for it. Hebrews 5:11-14 11 About this we have much to say, and it is hard to explain, since you have become dull of hearing. 12 For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you again the basic principles of the oracles of God. You need milk, not solid food, 13 for everyone who lives on milk is unskilled in the word of righteousness, since he is a child. 14 But solid food is for the mature, for those who have their powers of discernment trained by constant practice to distinguish good from evil. This is crystal clear that babes in Christ SHOULD be taught something different than the mature in Christ. (milk vs. meat). Paul believed that infants in Christ NEED milk until they are ready for meat. My question is - How does Voddie teach the children among him in his services what they need (milk), while also teaching the mature what they need (meat)? Of course parents are called to train their children in the instruction of the Lord. Assuming that parents don't train their kids because a kid goes to church to be taught milk, while a parent is taught meat, is an unnecessary assumption that in no way impacts the fact that infants need milk and the mature need meat, at least according to Paul.
@Abiding Faith, I let my children sit right beside me in regular service. There wasn’t a separate part for children at the church I attended. When we went home, this was the perfect opportunity for me to teach my children the same message at a level they could understand. Proverbs 22:6 “train up a child.” I know there is more to the Scripture, but I want to focus on this part. We as parents are to teach our children.
I have been a part of all levels of ministry. And for what I've seen in children's ministry, Junior High Ministry, High School Ministry, and even College Ministry is that it's just about getting together with other young people to be entertained and not really studying God's word. Most of the young people have a faith that's an inch deep and a mile wide, and has more to do with Christian Pop Culture but not a deeply faith rooted in the Bible. As we look up at the news churches today it's by no surprise that the look more like youth event that caters to making people feel good and being entertained. They have lost the fearful reverence for God and for His Word. I agree that we need to get rid of all these individual ministries (children, youth, men, women seniors) but instead we need to minister to the whole family. We need family Bible study groups. Men need to become the spiritual leaders of their family. We need to train and equip parents to be mature disciples of Jesus Christ so that they can be the spiritual leaders of their children.
As a youth pastor in Philly most of my teens came from the community/ non Christian homes. The vitality of youth ministry is the contextualization of the gospel. I grew up in church & never understood the preaching or was truly engaged in the worship. I visited another church’s youth ministry where I understood The gospel and the music and the vibe was engaging to me. I would’ve left the church if it wasn’t presented to me in my context. This is the vitality of youth ministry. Reaching & teaching young ppl who otherwise would not be reached.
Thank you Bro. Voddie for boiling down a complex topic into an understandable format. I have long thought that Youth Ministries foster carnality and frivolity.
It makes sense why it's so popular though. People go to church so that they don't have to read the Bible but they still feel like they're doing their "Christian duty", why would we also expect these same parents to take the time to discipline their children if they won't even disciple themselves.
I agree with what pastor Voddie points out in this video, but there is a reality he might not be aware of. There are shattered families, with single mothers who work night and day to bring food the their children. We know the ideal is for the parents to disciple their children, but this is impossible for many families. We can say, "but teaching the gospel should be priority, if a parent can't fit that in their weekly schedule he/she should not have children". Yes, in the ideal world where food is always on the table. Children need the gospel, and some of them are particularly vulnerable when they stay home alone. The church should help these families too,and pr Voddie comments lay one more burden on them, and a heavy one!
But what about the youth whose parents are unchurched? There has to be outreach for youth who hunger for the Word. I teach my own kids or take them to adult Bible Study but not every parent lives in the Word for those youth who need it now. Pray for a move that holds to them as well.
I think it's because your churches have been doing it a different way. In my case, our youth attend regular services both Friday and Sunday. Then we have a youth service during the week. It's an add on for us, not a substitute for our general services.
Precisely.. I don't know about a youth service that replaces the general assembly. Youth ministry in my culture is something on a different day, that discipled the youth and biblically addressed youth-related topics, providing spiritual mentors for those who especially did not come from Christian homes and could not get that at home. And....there was no paid youth pastor on staff. Everything is run by church members who volunteer their time to come out on a Fri night and disciple some young people. So I get Bro Voddie's point as it relates to his context but not every country in the world does things this way.
You want to know some thing sad? So few older folks possess the true love of Christ and his Word. I have met so many cold hearted or luke warm older "saints". I just think true believers have always been rare, and the American church is and has been overwhelmingly populated by unregenerate people.
Sometimes our truth offends people, other times it's the way we say it. Make sure it's the first and not the second. Remember, we ought to "speak the truth in love" (Eph 4:15).
I totally agree!! I have saw kids who have lead their parents to a church they like and the parents follow what their kids want instead of what they need. Thank you for this.
I disagree with his matter on this subject.. and here is the foundation for Youth Ministry or any other ministry that any Christian maybe be led to start! 1 Corinthians 12:4-6 4 “There are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5There are differences of ministries, but the same Lord. 6And there are diversities of activities, but it is the same God who works all in all.”
Now the Holy Spirit through Paul turns to diversity and catalogue of spiritual gifts. God’s plan for the church is diversity, not uniformity, in spiritual gifts. Each member of the Trinity has a role in spiritual gifts: the Holy Spirit distributes the gifts, the Lord places people in ministry, and the Father empowers people to do ministry. There are varieties in gifts, ministries, and effects but they all have sameness in the Trinity. God’s doctrine is diversity in unity, not uniformity.
12:4 There are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. The word “gift” is the Greek word charismata. The charis part of the word means grace. The ma portion of the word is the passive suffix meaning that it is a grace given. They are grace-gifts. God did the giving or bestowing of the gift upon us. These gifts are not native within us like natural talents. Both Christian and non-Christian alike share capacity for talent but only Christians have spiritual gifts. A gift is a special, supernatural enablement or capacity to do the work of God. Spiritual gifts are not natural capacities; they are supernaturally bestowed capacity. “Diversities” means distributions, distinctions, allotments, apportionments. The word suggests a separation of something already joined together. God distributes gifts in many varieties. No one gets all the “gifts” for there are different kinds for different people. There are about 20 gifts listed in the New Testament (Ephesians 4:7-11; 1 Corinthians 12:6-8; 1 Peter 4:11). The “same Spirit” is the Holy Spirit, the third member of the Trinity. The Holy Spirit is the source of all gifts. Sameness comes from source. 12:5 There are differences of ministries, but the same Lord. As there are diversities of gifts, there are differences of ministry opportunity as well. The word “differences” is the same Greek word as “diversities” in verses four and six. The word “ministries” means forms of services. The plural means different kinds of services. It is possible to have the same gift but have a different ministry. Some may use the gift of evangelism in child evangelism while others may use it on the campus. There is variety in uses of gifts. God does not give special supernatural capacities for the self but to serve. It is the “same Lord,” that is, the second person of the Trinity, that gives different kinds of service. All ministries represent Christ. We are here to represent Him. 12:6 And there are diversities of activities, but it is the same God who works all in all. The third category of “diversities” is “activities.” The word “activities” means effects and literally has the idea of what is worked out or energized. This word in the Greek (energemata - energizing) means manifestations of the Spirit’s power as over against human power. This is operational power. God empowers the effect. As with gifts and ministries, God gives different effects or results to ministry. There are different results from the use of gifts. God gives some ministries more fruit than others. Ministries to Muslims do not have the same fruit as other ministries. It is the “same God,” that is, God the Father who works “all in all.” God works all the gifts in all persons. PRINCIPLE: God loves diversity, not uniformity. APPLICATION: God loves diversity. He does not use a cookie-cutter to stamp out the same pattern of gifts. Diversity has its underpinning in God Himself. He makes Christians wonderfully different from each other. A choir is one but has at least four sections: bass, tenor, alto, and soprano. Each contributes to a unity of beautiful music. This is more beautiful than a choir of all sopranos. There are many members in the choir but there is only one conductor. A football team with uniformity of all guards is not very exciting or effective. The Christian does not have anything to say about whether he plays guard or quarterback. Spiritual gifts do not indicate merit or spirituality. We do not have a gift because we are better than someone else or because we have had a certain kind of experience. None of us earns or deserves a gift. It is something we discover and use. We cannot say, “What a great person I am because I have such-and-such gift.” What gifts we possess reside in the sovereign decision of God the Trinity. God gives special, supernatural gifts to every Christian without exception. Each gift is as important as any other gift. God specially designs each gift for each believer. We cannot do God’s work without special endowment of a spiritual gift. Christian work is simply exercising our spiritual gift. There is no difference between a preacher and a plumber. There is no such thing as a “layman.” We can neglect our gift or fail to use it but if we do, it will atrophy. If we do not use a muscle, it will atrophy and become weaker and weaker. The Holy Spirit enables us to use our gifts.
@@NemoJones314 I started to read you comment but didn't finish to be honest. I'm a pastor been to school and understand Greek and Hebrew. From a practical stand point I have found that children in church with parents is a powerful thing. I also understand the Histroy and the fact that parent are responsible of making that impact on their children. It's ok to disagree. Blessings
I am one of the foxes - Youth Pastor. I feel that God called me to be here to do everything I can to teach the youth about his Truth. Here are my convictions about youth ministry: 1. I will be obedient to God's calling on my life. 2. I try to model obedience to them so they will have seen it and can know that it is possible. 3. I teach them the TRUTH. Nothing watered down. I don't teach "down" to them. I treat them like adults. We are currently learning about "The Fear of the Lord" and obedience. 4. I have spent 30 years learning about God and the Bible, etc. I feel better equipped than most parents. Definitely could do more to help educate parents, so I may start doing that more. He continues to teach me every day and I share what I am learning with the kids. And my questions too. 5. Mission Trip and Camp and a regular winter retreat are three very important times that we have to get the kids to be focused on God and their spiritual life. If there is no Youth Group, you will have very little of this happen because most kids won't go if they don't know someone - at least not the first time. It also takes people that are gifted and called to work with you to put on those retreats, camps and mission trips. 6. I don't see my role as Youth Pastor to be any different that any other Pastor called to disciple people. It's just that yes I am going to make sure they have fun, but more importantly I make sure we have DEEP discussions about everything to do with God. Otherwise, all they will know is what they learn at school and from their friends. 7. I don't get so involved in their lives that they become dependent on me. I teach them to be obedient and in love with God. 8. We do not have a separate worship time for youth group. Sunday school happens for the entire church between services. We also meet Sunday night for game night and Wed night for youth group. Wednesday we workship with song and then spend an hour or longer teaching and in discussion. They seem to love it. I guess I could buy in to what he says in this video, but first we need to teach the adults to be obedient to God - don't have both parents working so that one can stay home and teach the truths about God. We need to preach to get rid of TV, and the constant need we have as a society for entertainment. This problem is much bigger than youth ministry. I see a constant growth of "my kids" in getting closer to God. Whether they will stay connected to God is not my business. That is between them and God, but I have to preach to them, with them. I completely fine with finding better ways to do YM, but because the Bible doesn't say "thou shall have youth ministry" doesn't make sense to me. This is an investment in the next generation for the Church and myself.
I'm 18 and planning on going to college for ministry and going into youth ministry. I want to learn how to teach the word just as a senior pastor would. I want to be able to shepherd and lead them as if they were adults
Get it straight we are talking about Youth Mininstry as a substitute rather than as a supplement to church service. You can have YM on any day apart from the worship times they are supposed to be in Church with their parents.
I highly respect Voddie, but I think he swung and missed on this one. His extreme stance on this, saying that the Bible mentions nothing at all about the principle being discussed here, is simply misguided. 1 Cor 3:1-3 3 But I, brothers, could not address you as spiritual people, but as people of the flesh, as infants in Christ. 2 I fed you with milk, not solid food, for you were not ready for it. And even now you are not yet ready, 3 for you are still of the flesh. Clearly Paul here declares that infants in Christ (regardless of age), should be fed milk, and NOT solid food, because they are not ready for it. Hebrews 5:11-14 11 About this we have much to say, and it is hard to explain, since you have become dull of hearing. 12 For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you again the basic principles of the oracles of God. You need milk, not solid food, 13 for everyone who lives on milk is unskilled in the word of righteousness, since he is a child. 14 But solid food is for the mature, for those who have their powers of discernment trained by constant practice to distinguish good from evil. This is crystal clear that babes in Christ SHOULD be taught something different than the mature in Christ. (milk vs. meat). Paul believed that infants in Christ NEED milk until they are ready for meat. My question is - How does Voddie teach the children among him in his services what they need (milk), while also teaching the mature what they need (meat)? Of course parents are called to train their children in the instruction of the Lord. Assuming that parents don't train their kids because a kid goes to church to be taught milk, while a parent is taught meat, is an unnecessary assumption that in no way impacts the fact that infants need milk and the mature need meat, at least according to Paul.
I’ve been involved in youth ministry from being a youth to volunteering...I can agree there’s been more damage on my spiritual life and relationship than good but everyone had the best intentions but 29 years still struggling with unlearning what they taught us...and getting on track
Coming from a broken home and not being taught about God the things i was taught in Sunday school Sabbath School and such going different child based church wasn't good for me in bringing me to God Now at 24 i'm hunting for the true way to serve God and truly live the way he wants me to. The things they teach us at that critical stage just smh.
I highly respect Voddie, but I think he swung and missed on this one. His extreme stance on this, saying that the Bible mentions nothing at all about the principle being discussed here, is simply misguided. 1 Cor 3:1-3 3 But I, brothers, could not address you as spiritual people, but as people of the flesh, as infants in Christ. 2 I fed you with milk, not solid food, for you were not ready for it. And even now you are not yet ready, 3 for you are still of the flesh. Clearly Paul here declares that infants in Christ (regardless of age), should be fed milk, and NOT solid food, because they are not ready for it. Hebrews 5:11-14 11 About this we have much to say, and it is hard to explain, since you have become dull of hearing. 12 For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you again the basic principles of the oracles of God. You need milk, not solid food, 13 for everyone who lives on milk is unskilled in the word of righteousness, since he is a child. 14 But solid food is for the mature, for those who have their powers of discernment trained by constant practice to distinguish good from evil. This is crystal clear that babes in Christ SHOULD be taught something different than the mature in Christ. (milk vs. meat). Paul believed that infants in Christ NEED milk until they are ready for meat. My question is - How does Voddie teach the children among him in his services what they need (milk), while also teaching the mature what they need (meat)? Of course parents are called to train their children in the instruction of the Lord. Assuming that parents don't train their kids because a kid goes to church to be taught milk, while a parent is taught meat, is an unnecessary assumption that in no way impacts the fact that infants need milk and the mature need meat, at least according to Paul.
I think Voddie made some good points. What I have observed where I live in Hong Kong is that there are some churches that have a youth ministry on one day such as friday and then the youth go back to be with the main congregation on sunday. I think this can work really well because it allows for youth to listen to the preaching of the word with the whole church community during sunday worship but it also provides a place for youth to converse and receive encouragement and exhortation amongst and from other youth on a friday youth group meeting. I think that growth groups are a great place to grow in fellowship with one another and God.
I am a youth minister in Kenya. I believe that the home is where the answer lies. The knowledgeable and faithful living teens and young adults seem to be children of the faithful christians in my observation. Unfortunately, in my church I think that it is only in the youth ministry that we are preaching the bible expositionally, as opposed to topical teaching where the bible is used as a reference material to support the ministers opinion. Even though I agree with you, and even see the obvious need for the abolition of youth ministry which is by and large also the 'entertainment ministry'; I am going to faithfully continue to teach the uncompromised gospel of Jesus Christ until such time as I am dismissed from the position possibly for being boring as I soon see it coming.
When you read Arthur Flake, what you see is Sunday School as a highly structured institution, that is 'responsible' for everything in the church, from finances to evangelism. It's not so much a 'ministry' of the church, but is the 'Church'. I really enjoyed Voddie's insight here.
I highly respect Voddie, but I think he swung and missed on this one. His extreme stance on this, saying that the Bible mentions nothing at all about the principle being discussed here, is simply misguided. 1 Cor 3:1-3 3 But I, brothers, could not address you as spiritual people, but as people of the flesh, as infants in Christ. 2 I fed you with milk, not solid food, for you were not ready for it. And even now you are not yet ready, 3 for you are still of the flesh. Clearly Paul here declares that infants in Christ (regardless of age), should be fed milk, and NOT solid food, because they are not ready for it. Hebrews 5:11-14 11 About this we have much to say, and it is hard to explain, since you have become dull of hearing. 12 For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you again the basic principles of the oracles of God. You need milk, not solid food, 13 for everyone who lives on milk is unskilled in the word of righteousness, since he is a child. 14 But solid food is for the mature, for those who have their powers of discernment trained by constant practice to distinguish good from evil. This is crystal clear that babes in Christ SHOULD be taught something different than the mature in Christ. (milk vs. meat). Paul believed that infants in Christ NEED milk until they are ready for meat. My question is - How does Voddie teach the children among him in his services what they need (milk), while also teaching the mature what they need (meat)? Of course parents are called to train their children in the instruction of the Lord. Assuming that parents don't train their kids because a kid goes to church to be taught milk, while a parent is taught meat, is an unnecessary assumption that in no way impacts the fact that infants need milk and the mature need meat, at least according to Paul.
Sobering message. I know this will upset many and rock the boat of youth ministries, but the youth of today in our churches don't have firm foundations of faith. Many times the cliques and fun and games of youth groups don't help. There are sincere, God-fearing leaders in youth ministries, but many times they tend to dumb down the discipleship of the youth instead of backing up the parents (Ephesians 6:4). Unfortunately, this movement is such the norm in most churches, just suggesting an overhaul or an outright abolishing of it would get you kicked out of church.
I picture showing this video to each youth group in every church. The kids' eyes would be opened. They would realize that their parents have dropped the ball. They would (I pray) go home and demand the parents to pick up the reins and drive the family again. Then youth group could become more of a seminar/special event program of higher learning in apologetics, hermaneutics, homiletics, discussion.
The more I listen to Mr. Baucham on the family, the more I realize that parents aren't discipling their children (me included & my parents) & as that goes up, youth ministry goes up. I think that if parents disciple their children, then there would be a lesser need for youth group. I now understand why the youth pastor at my church did not support Mr.Baucham & Mr. Washer in their teaching on these subjects. Don't get me wrong, he does teach & preach well & from scripture; but he & I do no see eye to eye on this. My parents don't disciple my brother &I, they only take us to church on Sunday & Wednesday (where on Wednesday night, the children, youth (7th-12th grd), & adults are separated). I would love to have an older man to disciple me (better would be my father, but in all my life I've seldom seen him even pick up the Bible, even in church during the sermon) & to be able to get out of the youth group. I thought it would be my papa, but the Lord called him home last year (he had pancreatic cancer &fought it till the end in pain). For a reference on my age, I'm a little over 15½. I've been raised in church all my life, was 'saved' at the age of 7 in the pastor's office with my parents there also, only to clean the outside of the cup while the inside was never cleaned. I did stuff with the church, helped with stuff, came when most didn't, looked like a good kid (when no one knew i had impure eyes), and I was decieved by satan &i also decieved the rest who thought I was maturing in the faith &bearing fruit. But then, by the Lord's grace, after a summer camp the youth group went to, that summer I began to read the word of God, began to love it, love my bretheren &be in fellowship, stumbled upon Mr. Baucham, Mr. Washer, Dr. MacArthur, R.C. Sproul, Wretched radio, &desired to grow in Christ. All the while I watched my papa fight cancer, in & out of the hospital, & watched him draw closer to his appointed time. I've fallen, not read scripture for ½ a year & felt horrible about it, rebounded only by the power of God bc I couldn't do it on my own. Well, I guess that's the first time I really shared my testimony of what the Lord has done in me. It could've only been the Lord, bc I didn't think I would share my testimony today or even in this comment. Forgive me of my grammar. Edit: where I am wrong, please correct me& set me straight.
I highly respect Voddie, but I think he swung and missed on this one. His extreme stance on this, saying that the Bible mentions nothing at all about the principle being discussed here, is simply misguided. 1 Cor 3:1-3 3 But I, brothers, could not address you as spiritual people, but as people of the flesh, as infants in Christ. 2 I fed you with milk, not solid food, for you were not ready for it. And even now you are not yet ready, 3 for you are still of the flesh. Clearly Paul here declares that infants in Christ (regardless of age), should be fed milk, and NOT solid food, because they are not ready for it. Hebrews 5:11-14 11 About this we have much to say, and it is hard to explain, since you have become dull of hearing. 12 For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you again the basic principles of the oracles of God. You need milk, not solid food, 13 for everyone who lives on milk is unskilled in the word of righteousness, since he is a child. 14 But solid food is for the mature, for those who have their powers of discernment trained by constant practice to distinguish good from evil. This is crystal clear that babes in Christ SHOULD be taught something different than the mature in Christ. (milk vs. meat). Paul believed that infants in Christ NEED milk until they are ready for meat. My question is - How does Voddie teach the children among him in his services what they need (milk), while also teaching the mature what they need (meat)? Of course parents are called to train their children in the instruction of the Lord. Assuming that parents don't train their kids because a kid goes to church to be taught milk, while a parent is taught meat, is an unnecessary assumption that in no way impacts the fact that infants need milk and the mature need meat, at least according to Paul.
I highly respect Voddie, but I think he swung and missed on this one. His extreme stance on this, saying that the Bible mentions nothing at all about the principle being discussed here, is simply misguided. 1 Cor 3:1-3 3 But I, brothers, could not address you as spiritual people, but as people of the flesh, as infants in Christ. 2 I fed you with milk, not solid food, for you were not ready for it. And even now you are not yet ready, 3 for you are still of the flesh. Clearly Paul here declares that infants in Christ (regardless of age), should be fed milk, and NOT solid food, because they are not ready for it. Hebrews 5:11-14 11 About this we have much to say, and it is hard to explain, since you have become dull of hearing. 12 For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you again the basic principles of the oracles of God. You need milk, not solid food, 13 for everyone who lives on milk is unskilled in the word of righteousness, since he is a child. 14 But solid food is for the mature, for those who have their powers of discernment trained by constant practice to distinguish good from evil. This is crystal clear that babes in Christ SHOULD be taught something different than the mature in Christ. (milk vs. meat). Paul believed that infants in Christ NEED milk until they are ready for meat. My question is - How does Voddie teach the children among him in his services what they need (milk), while also teaching the mature what they need (meat)? Of course parents are called to train their children in the instruction of the Lord. Assuming that parents don't train their kids because a kid goes to church to be taught milk, while a parent is taught meat, is an unnecessary assumption that in no way impacts the fact that infants need milk and the mature need meat, at least according to Paul.
I think there is a great deal of good in youth ministry. It's much more of a community then the rest of the congregation, and by targeting teaching by age group, it's easier to teach on subjects that relate to the student's lives and easier for them to find peers going through the same things. The wider the age group, the harder it is to give teaching that hits everyone.
I disagree with his matter on this subject.. and here is the foundation for Youth Ministry or any other ministry that any Christian maybe be led to start! 1 Corinthians 12:4-6 4 “There are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5There are differences of ministries, but the same Lord. 6And there are diversities of activities, but it is the same God who works all in all.”
Now the Holy Spirit through Paul turns to diversity and catalogue of spiritual gifts. God’s plan for the church is diversity, not uniformity, in spiritual gifts. Each member of the Trinity has a role in spiritual gifts: the Holy Spirit distributes the gifts, the Lord places people in ministry, and the Father empowers people to do ministry. There are varieties in gifts, ministries, and effects but they all have sameness in the Trinity. God’s doctrine is diversity in unity, not uniformity.
12:4 There are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. The word “gift” is the Greek word charismata. The charis part of the word means grace. The ma portion of the word is the passive suffix meaning that it is a grace given. They are grace-gifts. God did the giving or bestowing of the gift upon us. These gifts are not native within us like natural talents. Both Christian and non-Christian alike share capacity for talent but only Christians have spiritual gifts. A gift is a special, supernatural enablement or capacity to do the work of God. Spiritual gifts are not natural capacities; they are supernaturally bestowed capacity. “Diversities” means distributions, distinctions, allotments, apportionments. The word suggests a separation of something already joined together. God distributes gifts in many varieties. No one gets all the “gifts” for there are different kinds for different people. There are about 20 gifts listed in the New Testament (Ephesians 4:7-11; 1 Corinthians 12:6-8; 1 Peter 4:11). The “same Spirit” is the Holy Spirit, the third member of the Trinity. The Holy Spirit is the source of all gifts. Sameness comes from source. 12:5 There are differences of ministries, but the same Lord. As there are diversities of gifts, there are differences of ministry opportunity as well. The word “differences” is the same Greek word as “diversities” in verses four and six. The word “ministries” means forms of services. The plural means different kinds of services. It is possible to have the same gift but have a different ministry. Some may use the gift of evangelism in child evangelism while others may use it on the campus. There is variety in uses of gifts. God does not give special supernatural capacities for the self but to serve. It is the “same Lord,” that is, the second person of the Trinity, that gives different kinds of service. All ministries represent Christ. We are here to represent Him. 12:6 And there are diversities of activities, but it is the same God who works all in all. The third category of “diversities” is “activities.” The word “activities” means effects and literally has the idea of what is worked out or energized. This word in the Greek (energemata - energizing) means manifestations of the Spirit’s power as over against human power. This is operational power. God empowers the effect. As with gifts and ministries, God gives different effects or results to ministry. There are different results from the use of gifts. God gives some ministries more fruit than others. Ministries to Muslims do not have the same fruit as other ministries. It is the “same God,” that is, God the Father who works “all in all.” God works all the gifts in all persons. PRINCIPLE: God loves diversity, not uniformity. APPLICATION: God loves diversity. He does not use a cookie-cutter to stamp out the same pattern of gifts. Diversity has its underpinning in God Himself. He makes Christians wonderfully different from each other. A choir is one but has at least four sections: bass, tenor, alto, and soprano. Each contributes to a unity of beautiful music. This is more beautiful than a choir of all sopranos. There are many members in the choir but there is only one conductor. A football team with uniformity of all guards is not very exciting or effective. The Christian does not have anything to say about whether he plays guard or quarterback. Spiritual gifts do not indicate merit or spirituality. We do not have a gift because we are better than someone else or because we have had a certain kind of experience. None of us earns or deserves a gift. It is something we discover and use. We cannot say, “What a great person I am because I have such-and-such gift.” What gifts we possess reside in the sovereign decision of God the Trinity. God gives special, supernatural gifts to every Christian without exception. Each gift is as important as any other gift. God specially designs each gift for each believer. We cannot do God’s work without special endowment of a spiritual gift. Christian work is simply exercising our spiritual gift. There is no difference between a preacher and a plumber. There is no such thing as a “layman.” We can neglect our gift or fail to use it but if we do, it will atrophy. If we do not use a muscle, it will atrophy and become weaker and weaker. The Holy Spirit enables us to use our gifts.
Pastor Voddie !!!!! I've waited over twenty years to hear someone teach such relevant sermons !!!!!!! Never have I heard someone address simple truths in such a bold and clear manner!
I highly respect Voddie, but I think he swung and missed on this one. His extreme stance on this, saying that the Bible mentions nothing at all about the principle being discussed here, is simply misguided. 1 Cor 3:1-3 3 But I, brothers, could not address you as spiritual people, but as people of the flesh, as infants in Christ. 2 I fed you with milk, not solid food, for you were not ready for it. And even now you are not yet ready, 3 for you are still of the flesh. Clearly Paul here declares that infants in Christ (regardless of age), should be fed milk, and NOT solid food, because they are not ready for it. Hebrews 5:11-14 11 About this we have much to say, and it is hard to explain, since you have become dull of hearing. 12 For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you again the basic principles of the oracles of God. You need milk, not solid food, 13 for everyone who lives on milk is unskilled in the word of righteousness, since he is a child. 14 But solid food is for the mature, for those who have their powers of discernment trained by constant practice to distinguish good from evil. This is crystal clear that babes in Christ SHOULD be taught something different than the mature in Christ. (milk vs. meat). Paul believed that infants in Christ NEED milk until they are ready for meat. My question is - How does Voddie teach the children among him in his services what they need (milk), while also teaching the mature what they need (meat)? Of course parents are called to train their children in the instruction of the Lord. Assuming that parents don't train their kids because a kid goes to church to be taught milk, while a parent is taught meat, is an unnecessary assumption that in no way impacts the fact that infants need milk and the mature need meat, at least according to Paul.
Thanks, I have had these views for years and great full to hear it explain so well.Train up a child in the way he should go wasn’t given to the church but the parents.
Man...glory be to the Father through our Lord Jesus Christ for preserving faithful men of God, who hold fast to His Word and keep in step with His Spirit.This message was on point...Nuthin else to be said.To Christ be the glory!!
I totally agree with this but very few churches will agree. Because whole industries will collapse if we do this and youth pastors who get paid will be out of a job. Parents who are a little bit tired and send there kids to youth service will have to step up a take responsibility of admonishing there children in the word of God.
@@isaacleillhikar4566 It's called "Already Gone" by Ken Ham and Britt Beemer. That book completely turned my approach to Sunday school upside-down...God convicted me that I needed to take a curriculum that I co-authored and taught for seven years, throw it in the trash, and start all over again. sevenfootapologist.com
YES!!!! I grew up in the church, honestly I always disliked youth group and the teen Sunday school classes, I had such a thirst to learn and study the Bible but everything taught was so watered down and game focused. I begged my parents to let me go in with them, they thought I was being weird and anti social. I am now in my 30’s .... I can only think of two others (out of over 40) who are still in church today... they are the pastors children.
All i can say is WOW! This teaching is so on point, we must abolish. As a kid I enjoyed being in church with my mother and I cried when she tried to get me to go to childrens church so my mom never forced me I stayed with her. I later went on to lead a Youth Ministry and I agree with everything this Man of God has said.
I highly respect Voddie, but I think he swung and missed on this one. His extreme stance on this, saying that the Bible mentions nothing at all about the principle being discussed here, is simply misguided. 1 Cor 3:1-3 3 But I, brothers, could not address you as spiritual people, but as people of the flesh, as infants in Christ. 2 I fed you with milk, not solid food, for you were not ready for it. And even now you are not yet ready, 3 for you are still of the flesh. Clearly Paul here declares that infants in Christ (regardless of age), should be fed milk, and NOT solid food, because they are not ready for it. Hebrews 5:11-14 11 About this we have much to say, and it is hard to explain, since you have become dull of hearing. 12 For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you again the basic principles of the oracles of God. You need milk, not solid food, 13 for everyone who lives on milk is unskilled in the word of righteousness, since he is a child. 14 But solid food is for the mature, for those who have their powers of discernment trained by constant practice to distinguish good from evil. This is crystal clear that babes in Christ SHOULD be taught something different than the mature in Christ. (milk vs. meat). Paul believed that infants in Christ NEED milk until they are ready for meat. My question is - How does Voddie teach the children among him in his services what they need (milk), while also teaching the mature what they need (meat)? Of course parents are called to train their children in the instruction of the Lord. Assuming that parents don't train their kids because a kid goes to church to be taught milk, while a parent is taught meat, is an unnecessary assumption that in no way impacts the fact that infants need milk and the mature need meat, at least according to Paul.
Been catching up on Voddie Baucham videos. How could I have never heard of him before? We homeschool and it truly is a lifestyle. We have never found a congregation nearby that values being with children and worshiping together. It's all about sending the kids out to minister to other kids at school. They have a bias against those who homeschool. It almost seems like they have no "use" for them because the marketing and recruitment needs to be done in the schools by the kids also, and homeschoolers aren't able to help with that. It does seem like there may be a financial motive sometimes. I couldn't agree more with Mr Bauchman.
Couldn’t agree more!!! Rather than encouraging children to grow in knowledge and faithfulness, the church makes it all about being a missionary in the public school.
soo Grateful l saw this message soo much truth behind every word and answered ALOT OF QUESTIONS ive had about YOUTH MINISTRY. Ive Always thought and said why are we in one area and our children in another? we should be all getting the same message as we do every night at home. Im in Agreement with this message.
I highly respect Voddie, but I think he swung and missed on this one. His extreme stance on this, saying that the Bible mentions nothing at all about the principle being discussed here, is simply misguided. 1 Cor 3:1-3 3 But I, brothers, could not address you as spiritual people, but as people of the flesh, as infants in Christ. 2 I fed you with milk, not solid food, for you were not ready for it. And even now you are not yet ready, 3 for you are still of the flesh. Clearly Paul here declares that infants in Christ (regardless of age), should be fed milk, and NOT solid food, because they are not ready for it. Hebrews 5:11-14 11 About this we have much to say, and it is hard to explain, since you have become dull of hearing. 12 For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you again the basic principles of the oracles of God. You need milk, not solid food, 13 for everyone who lives on milk is unskilled in the word of righteousness, since he is a child. 14 But solid food is for the mature, for those who have their powers of discernment trained by constant practice to distinguish good from evil. This is crystal clear that babes in Christ SHOULD be taught something different than the mature in Christ. (milk vs. meat). Paul believed that infants in Christ NEED milk until they are ready for meat. My question is - How does Voddie teach the children among him in his services what they need (milk), while also teaching the mature what they need (meat)? Of course parents are called to train their children in the instruction of the Lord. Assuming that parents don't train their kids because a kid goes to church to be taught milk, while a parent is taught meat, is an unnecessary assumption that in no way impacts the fact that infants need milk and the mature need meat, at least according to Paul.
When I was a kid I was in several youth ministries at several different churches. I didn't know the Lord until I was a grown adult with my own child. I never really heard of sin much didn't even understand the gospel. I had no idea about theology or who the Lord was . I always said I was a Christian but I certainly wasn't until I was actually saved.
God bless you real good dear brother,am so glad cos for a while now I have noticed so many flaws.. most youth church only teach entertainment and camps
It seems to me the solution is to gear ministry towards the fathers and parents. Go to the _head_ of the family and teach him _how_ to disciple his family.
Overall well said... I like remind everyone how old the disciples were when called. “Teenagers” with most likely only Peter was over 19. How Bible only stayed that he and Jesus needed to pay temple tax is one example. It’s was common for teenagers 14-17 to choose a rabbi to follow. Except in this case Jesus choose them. Jesus waited until he was 30 because that was the age that one could become a Rabbi. So God started his church with maybe only Peter being 21 and the rest around 19 by the time of Pentecost. Jesus never dumbed down his teaching to his disciples. He taught straight truth! So should we. How many students are biblical illiterate. It’s all programs. I have 4 sons and I feel like I failed too although we have regular bible studies at home. I teach my kids doctrines and theology. It’s a hard place, but I believe we need to be praying more, studying our word and teaching what the Bible says without dumbing it down. It will either bring fruit or we will get let go because most kids will not want it and leave, which is very biblical... It is those that stay that we should pour into.
Market segmentation got its nose in under the tent approximately 30 years ago. It is worldly thinking not heavenly thinking. Here is an old adage. We are the flock of Christ. In a flock, the lambs feed with the sheep not in another pasture.
We should have a father's class on how to teach their own children.
@@dizzydisciple You deserve a prize for that one lol
Unfortunately the church is not equipping and training us in our gifts and talents making disciples to go and do, they just want the pew ministry for numbers and money...
Boom
@@dizzydisciple 🙌🙌🙌 Say so!
@@dizzydisciple most churches do not teach that
I was a Youth Pastor for 13 years. I quit in 2006, and been preaching this same thing ever since. I could not get most parents to disciple their own kids. Very sad. Anyway, I got out because I realized I was doing more harm than good by separating these kids from their parents in worship. We had 2 churches, the youth ministry was about 300 strong and almost totally independent of the adults. Lets stop this foolishness! PREACH VODDIE!!
Brilliant thought provoking.
Rod Pruitt would love to chat with you about your decision bro Pruitt
And some of us just don't believe your Christian beliefs or that a god even exists. it's about the beliefs man, not whether my parents are with me in church.
I was in YM from 2008-2015, I got out for the same reasons and I believe they are biblical.
You're an honorable man of God, sir.
I'm a youth pastor and I've been urging the church parents to get involved in their youth spiritual lives. I totally agree with Dr Baucham. I feel that our parents are relying on the church to teach their kids. I'm so glad that I stumbled onto this video
Juan Mercedes I also am a youth pastor and I agree it lies within the home. But when they’re not being spiritually fed at home I’m thankful God has blessed and graced me with the opportunity to fill that void. I agree “a lot” of ministries are all about the games and then 5-10 minute devotions. I’ve stood on my convictions and always preached 30-45 minute sermons. And then my wife and I are relational with them. We never separate for Sunday worship service. I’m a firm believer in discipleship! Disciples making disciples!
I disagree with his matter on this subject.. and here is the foundation for Youth Ministry or any other ministry that any Christian maybe be led to start!
1 Corinthians 12:4-6
4 “There are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5There are differences of ministries, but the same Lord. 6And there are diversities of activities, but it is the same God who works all in all.”
Now the Holy Spirit through Paul turns to diversity and catalogue of spiritual gifts. God’s plan for the church is diversity, not uniformity, in spiritual gifts. Each member of the Trinity has a role in spiritual gifts: the Holy Spirit distributes the gifts, the Lord places people in ministry, and the Father empowers people to do ministry. There are varieties in gifts, ministries, and effects but they all have sameness in the Trinity. God’s doctrine is diversity in unity, not uniformity.
12:4
There are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
The word “gift” is the Greek word charismata. The charis part of the word means grace. The ma portion of the word is the passive suffix meaning that it is a grace given. They are grace-gifts. God did the giving or bestowing of the gift upon us. These gifts are not native within us like natural talents. Both Christian and non-Christian alike share capacity for talent but only Christians have spiritual gifts. A gift is a special, supernatural enablement or capacity to do the work of God. Spiritual gifts are not natural capacities; they are supernaturally bestowed capacity.
“Diversities” means distributions, distinctions, allotments, apportionments. The word suggests a separation of something already joined together. God distributes gifts in many varieties. No one gets all the “gifts” for there are different kinds for different people. There are about 20 gifts listed in the New Testament (Ephesians 4:7-11; 1 Corinthians 12:6-8; 1 Peter 4:11).
The “same Spirit” is the Holy Spirit, the third member of the Trinity. The Holy Spirit is the source of all gifts. Sameness comes from source.
12:5
There are differences of ministries, but the same Lord.
As there are diversities of gifts, there are differences of ministry opportunity as well. The word “differences” is the same Greek word as “diversities” in verses four and six. The word “ministries” means forms of services. The plural means different kinds of services. It is possible to have the same gift but have a different ministry. Some may use the gift of evangelism in child evangelism while others may use it on the campus. There is variety in uses of gifts. God does not give special supernatural capacities for the self but to serve.
It is the “same Lord,” that is, the second person of the Trinity, that gives different kinds of service. All ministries represent Christ. We are here to represent Him.
12:6
And there are diversities of activities, but it is the same God who works all in all.
The third category of “diversities” is “activities.” The word “activities” means effects and literally has the idea of what is worked out or energized. This word in the Greek (energemata - energizing) means manifestations of the Spirit’s power as over against human power. This is operational power. God empowers the effect. As with gifts and ministries, God gives different effects or results to ministry. There are different results from the use of gifts. God gives some ministries more fruit than others. Ministries to Muslims do not have the same fruit as other ministries.
It is the “same God,” that is, God the Father who works “all in all.” God works all the gifts in all persons.
PRINCIPLE:
God loves diversity, not uniformity.
APPLICATION:
God loves diversity. He does not use a cookie-cutter to stamp out the same pattern of gifts. Diversity has its underpinning in God Himself. He makes Christians wonderfully different from each other. A choir is one but has at least four sections: bass, tenor, alto, and soprano. Each contributes to a unity of beautiful music. This is more beautiful than a choir of all sopranos. There are many members in the choir but there is only one conductor. A football team with uniformity of all guards is not very exciting or effective. The Christian does not have anything to say about whether he plays guard or quarterback.
Spiritual gifts do not indicate merit or spirituality. We do not have a gift because we are better than someone else or because we have had a certain kind of experience. None of us earns or deserves a gift. It is something we discover and use. We cannot say, “What a great person I am because I have such-and-such gift.” What gifts we possess reside in the sovereign decision of God the Trinity.
God gives special, supernatural gifts to every Christian without exception. Each gift is as important as any other gift. God specially designs each gift for each believer. We cannot do God’s work without special endowment of a spiritual gift. Christian work is simply exercising our spiritual gift. There is no difference between a preacher and a plumber. There is no such thing as a “layman.”
We can neglect our gift or fail to use it but if we do, it will atrophy. If we do not use a muscle, it will atrophy and become weaker and weaker. The Holy Spirit enables us to use our gifts.
@@NemoJones314 let me help you a bit. Sunday School is not Biblical. It is the rabbinic school that was. They became catechumenal schools in the Early Church. They were a school program but not an age-segregated worship programme.
So let's get it straight. If kids are not worshipping with their parents every Sunday it is a danger. Do Sunday School after Church. Youth Ministry midweek. Let the kids sit with their parents
@@NemoJones314 and no there is a big difference between a cleric and a layman. Jesus was a Jewish Rabbi, a cleric, and was teaching his disciples for 3 years in a mobile Seminary to become Rabbis. A layman is one who is in discernment for clerical ministry. Period. So you are either a Rabbi or Disciple in the Christian Church. A Rabbi helps others to discern their calling to ministry whether as ordained, consecrated or lay Ministers. If you are not doing any of these 3 ministries you are a layman. So let's quit minimising ministry in our eyes. Find a Ministry through the help of your cleric. Once you are helped to discern pursue it with all your heart.
The disciples were fishermen, tax collectors, etc. Jesus called them to consecrated and ordained ministry so you can't claim being a plumber is of the same rank before God.
@@NemoJones314 I respect your take but your error must be pointed out. Both the gifts of The Spirit and the fruits are both outlined in Scripture. Your argument somehow eisegetes youth ministry into the "gifts" when Scripture is clear as to what those are. "Gifted" is not the same as gifts of the Spirit. To God Be The Glory.
My comment may not be very popular with many, but I can say from personal experience, that one of the vital factors that played in to my staying active in the church post- high school, was the fact that many men were willing to spend time with me and take me under their wing. The youth group depressed me because it (sadly) was all about popularity. Sad to say, even some of the youth leaders fell into that and cliques were formed. I remained involved in my church youth group, but ventured out more into other areas of ministry. Why? Good, godly, mature men took time for me. I think it's unfair to lay that on one pastor/person. The church needs adults to be invested in young people's lives.
Jamal Abdelbaset Amen I feel what your saying
Jamal Abdelbaset starting to see this in my YG, cliques.
I'm with you, I felt a great burden lifted off my shoulders the moment i knew i was done with youth group. No more popular "all about me" high school like drama. Lucky for me my Dad instilled the reading and love of the Word of God in me when I was little and I still love His Word now. If it weren't for that, I may not be involved in the church because of how horrible and man centered our youth group was.
It is this reason exactly that in our youth ministry we focus on everyone. We look out for the people that would be considered "outcasts". I want everyone to feel like they are safe and are apart of a new family the moment they walk through the doors
Your comment does not surprise me at all. As Voddie has said in one of his messages; the concept of dividing children based on age groups is Darwinian and is in no way Biblical. The Bible refers to children as "fools" so what the church is doing is putting fools together with other fools. Not to mention that the leaders of these groups have very little reformed understanding of scripture. So you have a fool teaching other fools! Not Good! From my own personal experience trying to find a Church that is not liberal, I figure only about 20% of Church goers are saved!
"The heart of man is only evil continually" Unsaved children are EVIL, my friend! My heart goes out to you. Voddie is truly blessed by God. Please learn as much as you can from him and study, study, study, the word of God.
Do not be conformed to this world, but instead be transformed by the renewing of your mind.
God Bless
This is really interesting to me. As a kid, I was really shy and kind of a loner and so despite the urging of my parents, I never went to youth group.
Today, some 15 years later, of all those kids in my age group that went to youth, I am the one of a handful that still go to church today. In a weird way, my introversion saved me I think and I ended spending a lot of time with my parents and being mentored and discipled by them.
Thank God 🙏
Brilliant! I hated Sunday school, same bible stories every year, never getting down to the nitty gritty of scripture. I fought my parents hard to stop going and stay in the service so I could hear the preaching instead. I was blessed to have parents that taught me well in theology from a young age and it caused me to have such an unsatisfied attitude about Sunday school and youth group. So good to hear what Voddie has to say on the matter!
Cat Mein Same here. I hated youth things, I wanted meat. Kids are mature enough for the word of God.
I agree. My brother's little boy learned at home to memorize huge chunks of scripture then went to Sunday school and were told to learn "God is love." Same with my little guy. He knows every OT story, and gets bored at Sunday school but has trouble sitting still for sermons.
@Cat Mein ok, but what if youth group is thought of as a way to primarily meet new friends and create fellowships? I get what Voddie is saying but wouldn't fellowship with other believers, hanging out with friends, and finding new friends be a good thing? Even despite lack of good theology, youth ministry can bring together accountability partners and spiritual mentors right? I dont see a problem there
@@ethancundiff6422 fellowship with other believers is a good thing. But without good theology/teaching then it won't be helpful. It's not biblical. What good is a spiritual mentor if they are not spiritually more mature and know the scriptures well?
It really is sad that you hated SS. If only your teachers would have taught you how every one of of those stories was a picture of Christ, and the stories of Christ were fulfillment of prophecies about Him. You might have appreciated it more. I personally love the story of the Noah's Ark, and how the ark was a picture of Christ. The ark was pitched with pitch (which is the same Hebrew word for atonement) so it could be the ark was atoned so it was able to lift Noah and his family out of the judgement that was falling on the world. Likes the atoning blood of Christ is able to lift US out of judgement that is falling on the world. That is just one of the ways the ark pictures Christ. Wow I am still amazed by the beauty of the Bible. Guess where i heard the story of Noah's ark first? In Sunday School. :0)
This is a direct result of the dumbing down of the preaching and the rock and roll mentality. We have entertained our youth to the point of spiritual death. The true reason the youth are leaving church is because there is no substance to it. It's just like their home life or school life, entertaining.
Amen
As a person who has worked in this kind of programs, I have to say that I agree with everything said here. One of the most frustrating things I experienced was the morning one of the guys in my group showed up late, and obviously tired because of a lack of sleep, and told me "I'm going to be honest with you. I was partying all night long and I just came not to let you down." Whatever I was trying to do with them was nullified by all their parents allow them to do. As the Pastor said, if it's not done in the house by the parents, it's not gonna get done by others. Just as somebody said in one of the comments, I have spoken against it and been looked at as crazy. The fact for me is it doesn't work.
Talk about eye opening. The way we disciple our young people in the church needs to change.
Bible Munch change, and shifted...but not stopped.
Carlos Newton Absolutely. Evangelism and discipleship are the constant goals, ministry models come and go.
I attend a church where everyone worships together. The youth are on the ball. We don't need separation. We need families to step up and do the work. Watch the video.
I am a hard hitting drummer, church music director, advocate of new technology and diversity of musical styles. We homeschool our children who sit in worship services as a family. I am a youth ministry abolitionist. (Just in case anyone thought that no such person exists). and yes, I am very controversial in my church. Everything in this video is consistent with my observations. This video should be mandatory viewing for all church leadership struggling with this issue in their churches.
Oh, Amen! +Kent Keller I agree wholeheartedly with your comment! I, too, am a "new" youth ministry abolitionist. I hs our dtr and I was (notice "was") the church secretary and refused to send our daughter to YG after a couple of tries. Sadly, my husband and I encouraged her (due to our pastor and new kids/youth leadership) to go a couple of times and ended up having to debrief her each time. She didn't like it and she quickly realized that it was all about fun games and popularity and not about Biblical teaching - which is what we teach in our home. We were not very popular with other parents regarding our decision not to allow her to take part in the "socialization" with kids her own age. She actually enjoys attending the services with us and we are blessed by that!
Biblical socialization is more inline with Titus 2. Older mentoring younger. These proper relationships are nearly impossible in the Youth Ministry churches. Young, immature kids lead other young immature kids. The goal is reaching them for a profession of faith via a sinner's prayer. But the great commission is about discipleship, not mere profession.
Amen! Amen!
I think one of the key ideas that drive youth ministries is the idea that we need to train up the "Next Generation" which is assumed to be the millennial generation. This idea is fundamentally wrong. It assumes that new church members come from under the church. The truth is that new members come in sideways; coming from all age groups and backgrounds. Rather than age segregate, the church needs to train up all age groups. Old people are not to be "Put out to pasture". They need to train their grandchildren and other seniors. Young people should concentrate on learning instead of immediate leadership roles.
Young minister who would like to hear the views of all the "abolitionists". (Apologies now for being long-winded".) I have a passion for the youth, but I'm struggling with it for two reasons.
One: I feel like the class divide is splitting me. I started teaching youth last year, which I loved. At the beginning of this year I was given the opportunity to teach adults. Now it seems I've been labeled an exceptional teacher who "should preach to adults", which has me torn. On one end, it's an honor to be viewed as an able teacher to adults. And they've really given me the ball here. On the othe end, I hate how youth is treated as "small time", or a stepping stone. And there are times I'm teaching adults that I really wish the kids were in the room because they need the message just the same!
Two: When I do teach youth I feel elated....yet useless at times. I love it, but can't help feel like something is off. Like they could get so much more somehow.
I think this video really hits on why I'm feeling this way. Pulling the youth away from regular service and dividing them by age is boxing us all in. And we're being boxed in entirely seperate boxes....in opposite corners of the room.
But how do we change this? Or work around/through this? I've tried to combine/teach multiple age groups when a teacher was missing, but our coordinators let me know that's frowned upon, and would rather opt to pluck another "teacher" for the sanctuary who wasn't prepared. (Even though it would have been adding a couple 8th graders to 9th and 10th graders). In our lagging mentorship program (which I've taken over and am trying to get going), I would like the mentors to not be the only connection for our youth. But instead act as hub, who helps them connect with people in multiple groups. (I.e. I take my mentee and another youth to do tasks for one of our elderly, then doing something fun like see a movie. So my mentee is now building three different relationship and not just one with me). But again, people seem apprehensive. (About the idea, and just mentoring in general).
Summary: Everyone seems comfortable being completely isolated, but it kills me. How do we shift that thinking if we're not the Lead Pastor? (Should we even attempt to, or just accepted this is what our leader has put in place? I don't ever want to be viewed as disobedient.)
Great video! I grew up in a church with a youth group. I always wanted to attend an adult bible study, but I thought that I wasn't allowed. I never made friends in youth group, accept with my teachers, who poured Godly wisdom into my life. I am currently finishing up at university and I am one of the 30% who found a church in my college town.
I am so grateful for the perspective my new church has given me. It was planted about 3 years ago and due to a lack of resources, we never developed a youth ministry. We do have a children's ministry, but it is only for children under the age of nine who are unable to sit through an hour long sermon. The children still worship, pray and commune with the adults though. Children who are mature enough to stay through the sermon are encouraged to do so. I love to hear the children join in with singing and praying aloud. We also have a catechesis hour prior to the service which is open to both adults and children during which one of the pastors leads a group discussion about the basic truths of the Christian faith.
Not dividing by age has so many benefits. I now have friendships with people in many stages and walks of life. Everyone is free to fellowship with everyone else. This is how the church was meant to be. The children are amazingly mature. I have witnessed 11 and 12 year olds confidently engaging in theological discussions with adults three times their age. It was beautiful.
Intigration will be a strange and trying experience in some ways, it will take patience on the part of the adults. We can not allow ourselves to get frustrated if a child needs further clarification or occassionally makes a sound in the service. If we allow him, God will mature us through this process just as much as he will mature the children.
How can we expect spiritual maturity from young people if the only people they know from church are other young people who are equally immature?
I also feel the same way about campus ministries. Yes, let's minister to students on college campuses. They desperately need it, but campus ministries need to plug into a church, not just stay on campus. College students need christian mentors to lean on as they make the transition into living on their own.
I have been and still actively involved in teens ministry here in Kenya. For the close to 16 years that I have interacted with many churches here that have continued to heavily borrow their models from the US in particular, I have found myself on the wrong side of the argument when I emphasized
1) That the Parents are the Primary disciplers and we can only be secondary. That we ought to better equip them instead of making the teens more and more dependent on us as their pastors.
2) That we do NOT need to 'entertain', by continually trying to bring the world, -by what is trending into the church-rather teach and train them in the Bible, establish relationships and remain authentic to them in order to reach the individual, instead of target group.
3) That we remain mentors to them and thus we don't need to look cool, dress like or talk like them, even to the point of compromise. I was labelled old school and impractical.
4) That the over used models where only practical in the US where they were originated and over dependence on what others are doing is a killer to creativity as guided by God's Spirit. Instead of replicating and duplicating, why don't we allow God to do what He does best, Create through us. You gorrit, "I was branded anti change, development, resistant, not a team player"
That has led me to continually advocate for a dependance on God in empowering the parents to be the Primary disciplers to their children as commanded in scripture. It may look like a small start but I have seen impact in the last 10yrs....so help me God...
"Everything that youth ministers say is the answer already exists in the home. But what they will not say is, the home is where the answer lies." ♥ 20:14
I highly respect Voddie, but I think he swung and missed on this one. His extreme stance on this, saying that the Bible mentions nothing at all about the principle being discussed here, is simply misguided.
1 Cor 3:1-3
3 But I, brothers, could not address you as spiritual people, but as people of the flesh, as infants in Christ. 2 I fed you with milk, not solid food, for you were not ready for it. And even now you are not yet ready, 3 for you are still of the flesh.
Clearly Paul here declares that infants in Christ (regardless of age), should be fed milk, and NOT solid food, because they are not ready for it.
Hebrews 5:11-14
11 About this we have much to say, and it is hard to explain, since you have become dull of hearing. 12 For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you again the basic principles of the oracles of God. You need milk, not solid food, 13 for everyone who lives on milk is unskilled in the word of righteousness, since he is a child. 14 But solid food is for the mature, for those who have their powers of discernment trained by constant practice to distinguish good from evil.
This is crystal clear that babes in Christ SHOULD be taught something different than the mature in Christ. (milk vs. meat). Paul believed that infants in Christ NEED milk until they are ready for meat. My question is - How does Voddie teach the children among him in his services what they need (milk), while also teaching the mature what they need (meat)?
Of course parents are called to train their children in the instruction of the Lord. Assuming that parents don't train their kids because a kid goes to church to be taught milk, while a parent is taught meat, is an unnecessary assumption that in no way impacts the fact that infants need milk and the mature need meat, at least according to Paul.
Wow. This was very convicting and if I'm honest, as someone who teaches at a once a week children's ministry, I am begining to see the lack of fruit this really produces. this has given me a lot to think about. Thank you.
jesseschulz214 Amen bro.
Jesus is Lord! Praise God!
jesseschulz214 Isaiah 55:11
How, from our limited view of eternity, can we qualify something as "fruitless". I've had things said to me 30 yrs ago, that didn't bear fruit until I was in a place to understand & apply it.
Our only job is to plant the seed with Truth & Grace, & water it as often as we can. We are in no position to know the change that may take place in a person's heart/actions through the course of their lives. Only God decides when/how his word bears fruit
J Betts It great that God has called youth lessons to your remembrance in adulthood. But it's also important that youth are provided lessons they can apply now. Think of how much strife and hurt can be avoided if they apply the Word no verses waiting several decades? Young people are completing youth ministry with no real life change at that point. I think that's what he's getting at.
I am a brand new youth Pastor, pretty much brand new to youth ministry, and it's very hard for me not to agree with the arguments being made in this video. I've never heard anthing like this, and it's blowing my mind. I'm going to pray and study and research and make my own conclusion, but man.... I feel like He's really onto something and we as a culture, as a collective whole are just not ready for the change he is talking about. And that makes me sad.
I think that we need to remember that not only church kids come to youth groups and activities. Not all families are equipped, or equally yoked to present a solid front @ home.
I would challenge you, my brother, to pray, talk to others, share the video and discuss it w/ others. Changes can certainly be made, in all ministries and outreaches, but I believe it should be a discussion, not just buying into everything in this video.
If I were a new Youth Pastor, I think this video might make me feel defeated or even question my calling. Don't let that happen to you. God has a plan for you and for the training and gifts He has blessed you with.
Like all of us, we just need to keep moving forward in faith.
Blessings to you and your ministry (in whatever form it might take.)
can we then evangelize to those families as a whole who are not equipped? why just the youth?
@@Ania_Naomi96
It's based on Finneyism. It's easier to sell something to children, and then drag the parents along behind them. That's the theory anyways.
The church is suffering now more than ever. It is more ready for this change than I think we could understand.
I’m with you Daniel I’ve never heard this before. I’m not in ministry but I’ve always had a heart for the young people. I am opening my eyes to this and still need to ask and do more research. However I think we could question so many things like marriage conferences, marriage counseling. None of those things are in the Bible. And yet are completely necessary to edify marriages in the church. We have an enemy. I don’t think we need to separate the youth from the parents in service but complement the regular Sunday service with a youth meeting. It’s necessary in a different way. If we don’t make a space for the youth to gather, make friends, minister to one another, the enemy/the world will have a stronger pull. That’s just my opinion though obviously.
I am a high school student and this is a message that I really needed to hear. Thank you!
You can see the times we live in when ppl who teach Gods word properly are considered radical.
That's been my conviction here lately. Well said.
If we can recognize that children and youth learn and understand things at different ages than adults do then this justifies the purpose of youth ministry.
This guy is awesome! Discovered him through Desiring God, and I'm so happy I did!
I highly respect Voddie, but I think he swung and missed on this one. His extreme stance on this, saying that the Bible mentions nothing at all about the principle being discussed here, is simply misguided.
1 Cor 3:1-3
3 But I, brothers, could not address you as spiritual people, but as people of the flesh, as infants in Christ. 2 I fed you with milk, not solid food, for you were not ready for it. And even now you are not yet ready, 3 for you are still of the flesh.
Clearly Paul here declares that infants in Christ (regardless of age), should be fed milk, and NOT solid food, because they are not ready for it.
Hebrews 5:11-14
11 About this we have much to say, and it is hard to explain, since you have become dull of hearing. 12 For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you again the basic principles of the oracles of God. You need milk, not solid food, 13 for everyone who lives on milk is unskilled in the word of righteousness, since he is a child. 14 But solid food is for the mature, for those who have their powers of discernment trained by constant practice to distinguish good from evil.
This is crystal clear that babes in Christ SHOULD be taught something different than the mature in Christ. (milk vs. meat). Paul believed that infants in Christ NEED milk until they are ready for meat. My question is - How does Voddie teach the children among him in his services what they need (milk), while also teaching the mature what they need (meat)?
Of course parents are called to train their children in the instruction of the Lord. Assuming that parents don't train their kids because a kid goes to church to be taught milk, while a parent is taught meat, is an unnecessary assumption that in no way impacts the fact that infants need milk and the mature need meat, at least according to Paul.
I really love listening to Voddie. I have been a believer for nearly 30 years and have a couple theology degrees. His ideas are so challenging to me at times. I love listening to him speak because he is so well thought out, well spoken and educated. voddie, if you ever read this.... thank you for being who you are
So what is the difference between theory and revelation
I highly respect Voddie, but I think he swung and missed on this one. His extreme stance on this, saying that the Bible mentions nothing at all about the principle being discussed here, is simply misguided.
1 Cor 3:1-3
3 But I, brothers, could not address you as spiritual people, but as people of the flesh, as infants in Christ. 2 I fed you with milk, not solid food, for you were not ready for it. And even now you are not yet ready, 3 for you are still of the flesh.
Clearly Paul here declares that infants in Christ (regardless of age), should be fed milk, and NOT solid food, because they are not ready for it.
Hebrews 5:11-14
11 About this we have much to say, and it is hard to explain, since you have become dull of hearing. 12 For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you again the basic principles of the oracles of God. You need milk, not solid food, 13 for everyone who lives on milk is unskilled in the word of righteousness, since he is a child. 14 But solid food is for the mature, for those who have their powers of discernment trained by constant practice to distinguish good from evil.
This is crystal clear that babes in Christ SHOULD be taught something different than the mature in Christ. (milk vs. meat). Paul believed that infants in Christ NEED milk until they are ready for meat. My question is - How does Voddie teach the children among him in his services what they need (milk), while also teaching the mature what they need (meat)?
Of course parents are called to train their children in the instruction of the Lord. Assuming that parents don't train their kids because a kid goes to church to be taught milk, while a parent is taught meat, is an unnecessary assumption that in no way impacts the fact that infants need milk and the mature need meat, at least according to Paul.
I found a Church i like. The pastor is amazing and preach the word of God. I was concern about that fact they have no Sunday school
most of the people inside the church are old age people and the church itself is small. I was so worried about my kids are not able to make friends by not having a Sunday school. Well glad I found this video I got my answer tonight. I won't leave the church I love because of no Sunday school. We will teach our kids at home, and they can listen to the service.
I was in youth ministry for 23 years. I saw the good and the bad. However he is not addressing other things that we have institutionalized. I enjoy his preaching. He preaches behind a pulpit. The pulpit along with flags of the Nation on stage and pews and folding chairs and steeples....
Brother Baucham i praise almighty God for raising a man like you, i pray that the Lord will raise more and more passionate men for his Glory. God bless you and your wonderful family. Your sermons on family made me want many more kids, we’re in the process please pray for us. much love in Christ Jesus.
I absolutely agree, in high school I started to go to church again and it was so great in the beginning. I was applying the word and God was speaking to me and I was growing until they wanted to push me into pretty much being a babysitter. It became harder and harder to get to church because I didn't have rides and one Sunday I was finally able to make it and right after worship I was so excited to hear the sermon just to be pulled aside and told it was my turn to teach the children. I don't even have children of my own but I did it and I was so deeply sadden. These churches are giving these young teens that don't know anything yet to care and teach others children and its not right. I hated Sunday school as a kid and then I just ended up hating the church all together. Thank the Lord my heart has changed and I'm seeking Him again but man it has been a wild ride.
I highly respect Voddie, but I think he swung and missed on this one. His extreme stance on this, saying that the Bible mentions nothing at all about the principle being discussed here, is simply misguided.
1 Cor 3:1-3
3 But I, brothers, could not address you as spiritual people, but as people of the flesh, as infants in Christ. 2 I fed you with milk, not solid food, for you were not ready for it. And even now you are not yet ready, 3 for you are still of the flesh.
Clearly Paul here declares that infants in Christ (regardless of age), should be fed milk, and NOT solid food, because they are not ready for it.
Hebrews 5:11-14
11 About this we have much to say, and it is hard to explain, since you have become dull of hearing. 12 For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you again the basic principles of the oracles of God. You need milk, not solid food, 13 for everyone who lives on milk is unskilled in the word of righteousness, since he is a child. 14 But solid food is for the mature, for those who have their powers of discernment trained by constant practice to distinguish good from evil.
This is crystal clear that babes in Christ SHOULD be taught something different than the mature in Christ. (milk vs. meat). Paul believed that infants in Christ NEED milk until they are ready for meat. My question is - How does Voddie teach the children among him in his services what they need (milk), while also teaching the mature what they need (meat)?
Of course parents are called to train their children in the instruction of the Lord. Assuming that parents don't train their kids because a kid goes to church to be taught milk, while a parent is taught meat, is an unnecessary assumption that in no way impacts the fact that infants need milk and the mature need meat, at least according to Paul.
@Abiding Faith, I let my children sit right beside me in regular service. There wasn’t a separate part for children at the church I attended. When we went home, this was the perfect opportunity for me to teach my children the same message at a level they could understand. Proverbs 22:6 “train up a child.” I know there is more to the Scripture, but I want to focus on this part. We as parents are to teach our children.
I have been a part of all levels of ministry. And for what I've seen in children's ministry, Junior High Ministry, High School Ministry, and even College Ministry is that it's just about getting together with other young people to be entertained and not really studying God's word. Most of the young people have a faith that's an inch deep and a mile wide, and has more to do with Christian Pop Culture but not a deeply faith rooted in the Bible. As we look up at the news churches today it's by no surprise that the look more like youth event that caters to making people feel good and being entertained. They have lost the fearful reverence for God and for His Word. I agree that we need to get rid of all these individual ministries (children, youth, men, women seniors) but instead we need to minister to the whole family. We need family Bible study groups. Men need to become the spiritual leaders of their family. We need to train and equip parents to be mature disciples of Jesus Christ so that they can be the spiritual leaders of their children.
As a youth pastor in Philly most of my teens came from the community/ non Christian homes. The vitality of youth ministry is the contextualization of the gospel. I grew up in church & never understood the preaching or was truly engaged in the worship. I visited another church’s youth ministry where I understood The gospel and the music and the vibe was engaging to me. I would’ve left the church if it wasn’t presented to me in my context. This is the vitality of youth ministry. Reaching & teaching young ppl who otherwise would not be reached.
Thank you Bro. Voddie for boiling down a complex topic into an understandable format. I have long thought that Youth Ministries foster carnality and frivolity.
I’m 21 and I learn more myself from scripture and teaching myself then in youth ministry
It makes sense why it's so popular though. People go to church so that they don't have to read the Bible but they still feel like they're doing their "Christian duty", why would we also expect these same parents to take the time to discipline their children if they won't even disciple themselves.
This is the most logical argument. Christian parents leave it up to the separate ministries. The parents need to do better.
I agree with what pastor Voddie points out in this video, but there is a reality he might not be aware of. There are shattered families, with single mothers who work night and day to bring food the their children. We know the ideal is for the parents to disciple their children, but this is impossible for many families. We can say, "but teaching the gospel should be priority, if a parent can't fit that in their weekly schedule he/she should not have children". Yes, in the ideal world where food is always on the table. Children need the gospel, and some of them are particularly vulnerable when they stay home alone. The church should help these families too,and pr Voddie comments lay one more burden on them, and a heavy one!
Parents need to disciple period. Lets get with it!
But what about the youth whose parents are unchurched? There has to be outreach for youth who hunger for the Word. I teach my own kids or take them to adult Bible Study but not every parent lives in the Word for those youth who need it now. Pray for a move that holds to them as well.
I think it's because your churches have been doing it a different way. In my case, our youth attend regular services both Friday and Sunday. Then we have a youth service during the week. It's an add on for us, not a substitute for our general services.
Brilliant
Precisely.. I don't know about a youth service that replaces the general assembly.
Youth ministry in my culture is something on a different day, that discipled the youth and biblically addressed youth-related topics, providing spiritual mentors for those who especially did not come from Christian homes and could not get that at home.
And....there was no paid youth pastor on staff. Everything is run by church members who volunteer their time to come out on a Fri night and disciple some young people.
So I get Bro Voddie's point as it relates to his context but not every country in the world does things this way.
Bingo. If you want to talk about segregation on Sunday morning this is it! Age segregation is devastating to the church.
You want to know some thing sad? So few older folks possess the true love of Christ and his Word. I have met so many cold hearted or luke warm older "saints". I just think true believers have always been rare, and the American church is and has been overwhelmingly populated by unregenerate people.
Man I love being challenged in my thinking. God bless Voddie Baucham!
Amen bro! It’s what we all need 🙏
Church has become an Idol.
been saying this for years.......i found its a great way to loose friends
+jonathan chamblee LOL! any disagreement with youth ministry pragmatism divides. Often times people aren't even willing to listen
Truth Endures, you are telling the truth.
Amen
Sometimes our truth offends people, other times it's the way we say it. Make sure it's the first and not the second. Remember, we ought to "speak the truth in love" (Eph 4:15).
I totally agree!! I have saw kids who have lead their parents to a church they like and the parents follow what their kids want instead of what they need. Thank you for this.
I disagree with his matter on this subject.. and here is the foundation for Youth Ministry or any other ministry that any Christian maybe be led to start!
1 Corinthians 12:4-6
4 “There are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5There are differences of ministries, but the same Lord. 6And there are diversities of activities, but it is the same God who works all in all.”
Now the Holy Spirit through Paul turns to diversity and catalogue of spiritual gifts. God’s plan for the church is diversity, not uniformity, in spiritual gifts. Each member of the Trinity has a role in spiritual gifts: the Holy Spirit distributes the gifts, the Lord places people in ministry, and the Father empowers people to do ministry. There are varieties in gifts, ministries, and effects but they all have sameness in the Trinity. God’s doctrine is diversity in unity, not uniformity.
12:4
There are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
The word “gift” is the Greek word charismata. The charis part of the word means grace. The ma portion of the word is the passive suffix meaning that it is a grace given. They are grace-gifts. God did the giving or bestowing of the gift upon us. These gifts are not native within us like natural talents. Both Christian and non-Christian alike share capacity for talent but only Christians have spiritual gifts. A gift is a special, supernatural enablement or capacity to do the work of God. Spiritual gifts are not natural capacities; they are supernaturally bestowed capacity.
“Diversities” means distributions, distinctions, allotments, apportionments. The word suggests a separation of something already joined together. God distributes gifts in many varieties. No one gets all the “gifts” for there are different kinds for different people. There are about 20 gifts listed in the New Testament (Ephesians 4:7-11; 1 Corinthians 12:6-8; 1 Peter 4:11).
The “same Spirit” is the Holy Spirit, the third member of the Trinity. The Holy Spirit is the source of all gifts. Sameness comes from source.
12:5
There are differences of ministries, but the same Lord.
As there are diversities of gifts, there are differences of ministry opportunity as well. The word “differences” is the same Greek word as “diversities” in verses four and six. The word “ministries” means forms of services. The plural means different kinds of services. It is possible to have the same gift but have a different ministry. Some may use the gift of evangelism in child evangelism while others may use it on the campus. There is variety in uses of gifts. God does not give special supernatural capacities for the self but to serve.
It is the “same Lord,” that is, the second person of the Trinity, that gives different kinds of service. All ministries represent Christ. We are here to represent Him.
12:6
And there are diversities of activities, but it is the same God who works all in all.
The third category of “diversities” is “activities.” The word “activities” means effects and literally has the idea of what is worked out or energized. This word in the Greek (energemata - energizing) means manifestations of the Spirit’s power as over against human power. This is operational power. God empowers the effect. As with gifts and ministries, God gives different effects or results to ministry. There are different results from the use of gifts. God gives some ministries more fruit than others. Ministries to Muslims do not have the same fruit as other ministries.
It is the “same God,” that is, God the Father who works “all in all.” God works all the gifts in all persons.
PRINCIPLE:
God loves diversity, not uniformity.
APPLICATION:
God loves diversity. He does not use a cookie-cutter to stamp out the same pattern of gifts. Diversity has its underpinning in God Himself. He makes Christians wonderfully different from each other. A choir is one but has at least four sections: bass, tenor, alto, and soprano. Each contributes to a unity of beautiful music. This is more beautiful than a choir of all sopranos. There are many members in the choir but there is only one conductor. A football team with uniformity of all guards is not very exciting or effective. The Christian does not have anything to say about whether he plays guard or quarterback.
Spiritual gifts do not indicate merit or spirituality. We do not have a gift because we are better than someone else or because we have had a certain kind of experience. None of us earns or deserves a gift. It is something we discover and use. We cannot say, “What a great person I am because I have such-and-such gift.” What gifts we possess reside in the sovereign decision of God the Trinity.
God gives special, supernatural gifts to every Christian without exception. Each gift is as important as any other gift. God specially designs each gift for each believer. We cannot do God’s work without special endowment of a spiritual gift. Christian work is simply exercising our spiritual gift. There is no difference between a preacher and a plumber. There is no such thing as a “layman.”
We can neglect our gift or fail to use it but if we do, it will atrophy. If we do not use a muscle, it will atrophy and become weaker and weaker. The Holy Spirit enables us to use our gifts.
@@NemoJones314 I started to read you comment but didn't finish to be honest. I'm a pastor been to school and understand Greek and Hebrew. From a practical stand point I have found that children in church with parents is a powerful thing. I also understand the Histroy and the fact that parent are responsible of making that impact on their children. It's ok to disagree. Blessings
I am one of the foxes - Youth Pastor. I feel that God called me to be here to do everything I can to teach the youth about his Truth. Here are my convictions about youth ministry:
1. I will be obedient to God's calling on my life.
2. I try to model obedience to them so they will have seen it and can know that it is possible.
3. I teach them the TRUTH. Nothing watered down. I don't teach "down" to them. I treat them like adults. We are currently learning about "The Fear of the Lord" and obedience.
4. I have spent 30 years learning about God and the Bible, etc. I feel better equipped than most parents. Definitely could do more to help educate parents, so I may start doing that more. He continues to teach me every day and I share what I am learning with the kids. And my questions too.
5. Mission Trip and Camp and a regular winter retreat are three very important times that we have to get the kids to be focused on God and their spiritual life. If there is no Youth Group, you will have very little of this happen because most kids won't go if they don't know someone - at least not the first time. It also takes people that are gifted and called to work with you to put on those retreats, camps and mission trips.
6. I don't see my role as Youth Pastor to be any different that any other Pastor called to disciple people. It's just that yes I am going to make sure they have fun, but more importantly I make sure we have DEEP discussions about everything to do with God. Otherwise, all they will know is what they learn at school and from their friends.
7. I don't get so involved in their lives that they become dependent on me. I teach them to be obedient and in love with God.
8. We do not have a separate worship time for youth group. Sunday school happens for the entire church between services. We also meet Sunday night for game night and Wed night for youth group. Wednesday we workship with song and then spend an hour or longer teaching and in discussion. They seem to love it.
I guess I could buy in to what he says in this video, but first we need to teach the adults to be obedient to God - don't have both parents working so that one can stay home and teach the truths about God. We need to preach to get rid of TV, and the constant need we have as a society for entertainment. This problem is much bigger than youth ministry.
I see a constant growth of "my kids" in getting closer to God. Whether they will stay connected to God is not my business. That is between them and God, but I have to preach to them, with them.
I completely fine with finding better ways to do YM, but because the Bible doesn't say "thou shall have youth ministry" doesn't make sense to me. This is an investment in the next generation for the Church and myself.
I'm 18 and planning on going to college for ministry and going into youth ministry. I want to learn how to teach the word just as a senior pastor would. I want to be able to shepherd and lead them as if they were adults
Get it straight we are talking about Youth Mininstry as a substitute rather than as a supplement to church service. You can have YM on any day apart from the worship times they are supposed to be in Church with their parents.
I highly respect Voddie, but I think he swung and missed on this one. His extreme stance on this, saying that the Bible mentions nothing at all about the principle being discussed here, is simply misguided.
1 Cor 3:1-3
3 But I, brothers, could not address you as spiritual people, but as people of the flesh, as infants in Christ. 2 I fed you with milk, not solid food, for you were not ready for it. And even now you are not yet ready, 3 for you are still of the flesh.
Clearly Paul here declares that infants in Christ (regardless of age), should be fed milk, and NOT solid food, because they are not ready for it.
Hebrews 5:11-14
11 About this we have much to say, and it is hard to explain, since you have become dull of hearing. 12 For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you again the basic principles of the oracles of God. You need milk, not solid food, 13 for everyone who lives on milk is unskilled in the word of righteousness, since he is a child. 14 But solid food is for the mature, for those who have their powers of discernment trained by constant practice to distinguish good from evil.
This is crystal clear that babes in Christ SHOULD be taught something different than the mature in Christ. (milk vs. meat). Paul believed that infants in Christ NEED milk until they are ready for meat. My question is - How does Voddie teach the children among him in his services what they need (milk), while also teaching the mature what they need (meat)?
Of course parents are called to train their children in the instruction of the Lord. Assuming that parents don't train their kids because a kid goes to church to be taught milk, while a parent is taught meat, is an unnecessary assumption that in no way impacts the fact that infants need milk and the mature need meat, at least according to Paul.
Reading some of the comments from individuals involved in YM further emphasises Dr. Voddie's point on the "fox guarding the hen house"
Just because someone disagrees doesn’t make them the issue...just gives them a voice from a different perspective.
I apply this to ministry teams (ushers, greeters, outreach, etc.) too. I teach my people that they are simply deacons...
I’ve been involved in youth ministry from being a youth to volunteering...I can agree there’s been more damage on my spiritual life and relationship than good but everyone had the best intentions but 29 years still struggling with unlearning what they taught us...and getting on track
Coming from a broken home and not being taught about God the things i was taught in Sunday school Sabbath School and such going different child based church wasn't good for me in bringing me to God Now at 24 i'm hunting for the true way to serve God and truly live the way he wants me to. The things they teach us at that critical stage just smh.
I PRAISE GOD FOR U! U r on target, THE GOSPEL HAS ALWAYS BEEN MORE THAN ENOUGH!!!
This is absolutely incredible and spot-on! Thank you so much for speaking a truth the Church (and especially parents and pastors) so desperately need.
Oh God our father thank you for this wonderful ministry you have bestowed on this dear brother. May your will be done in your church, not ours amen !
I highly respect Voddie, but I think he swung and missed on this one. His extreme stance on this, saying that the Bible mentions nothing at all about the principle being discussed here, is simply misguided.
1 Cor 3:1-3
3 But I, brothers, could not address you as spiritual people, but as people of the flesh, as infants in Christ. 2 I fed you with milk, not solid food, for you were not ready for it. And even now you are not yet ready, 3 for you are still of the flesh.
Clearly Paul here declares that infants in Christ (regardless of age), should be fed milk, and NOT solid food, because they are not ready for it.
Hebrews 5:11-14
11 About this we have much to say, and it is hard to explain, since you have become dull of hearing. 12 For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you again the basic principles of the oracles of God. You need milk, not solid food, 13 for everyone who lives on milk is unskilled in the word of righteousness, since he is a child. 14 But solid food is for the mature, for those who have their powers of discernment trained by constant practice to distinguish good from evil.
This is crystal clear that babes in Christ SHOULD be taught something different than the mature in Christ. (milk vs. meat). Paul believed that infants in Christ NEED milk until they are ready for meat. My question is - How does Voddie teach the children among him in his services what they need (milk), while also teaching the mature what they need (meat)?
Of course parents are called to train their children in the instruction of the Lord. Assuming that parents don't train their kids because a kid goes to church to be taught milk, while a parent is taught meat, is an unnecessary assumption that in no way impacts the fact that infants need milk and the mature need meat, at least according to Paul.
Amen - shared.
I think Voddie made some good points. What I have observed where I live in Hong Kong is that there are some churches that have a youth ministry on one day such as friday and then the youth go back to be with the main congregation on sunday. I think this can work really well because it allows for youth to listen to the preaching of the word with the whole church community during sunday worship but it also provides a place for youth to converse and receive encouragement and exhortation amongst and from other youth on a friday youth group meeting. I think that growth groups are a great place to grow in fellowship with one another and God.
My church in London , England use this same principle.
I agree 100%
I am a youth minister in Kenya. I believe that the home is where the answer lies. The knowledgeable and faithful living teens and young adults seem to be children of the faithful christians in my observation.
Unfortunately, in my church I think that it is only in the youth ministry that we are preaching the bible expositionally, as opposed to topical teaching where the bible is used as a reference material to support the ministers opinion. Even though I agree with you, and even see the obvious need for the abolition of youth ministry which is by and large also the 'entertainment ministry'; I am going to faithfully continue to teach the uncompromised gospel of Jesus Christ until such time as I am dismissed from the position possibly for being boring as I soon see it coming.
Compelling is the word that comes to mind.
Powerful presentation by Voddie.
When you read Arthur Flake, what you see is Sunday School as a highly structured institution, that is 'responsible' for everything in the church, from finances to evangelism. It's not so much a 'ministry' of the church, but is the 'Church'. I really enjoyed Voddie's insight here.
Biggest problem was the topic.
“Church within a Church”.
Great response
We have to preach the gospel that is the starting point
Biblically put and biblically sound......Ouch and Amen!!
I highly respect Voddie, but I think he swung and missed on this one. His extreme stance on this, saying that the Bible mentions nothing at all about the principle being discussed here, is simply misguided.
1 Cor 3:1-3
3 But I, brothers, could not address you as spiritual people, but as people of the flesh, as infants in Christ. 2 I fed you with milk, not solid food, for you were not ready for it. And even now you are not yet ready, 3 for you are still of the flesh.
Clearly Paul here declares that infants in Christ (regardless of age), should be fed milk, and NOT solid food, because they are not ready for it.
Hebrews 5:11-14
11 About this we have much to say, and it is hard to explain, since you have become dull of hearing. 12 For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you again the basic principles of the oracles of God. You need milk, not solid food, 13 for everyone who lives on milk is unskilled in the word of righteousness, since he is a child. 14 But solid food is for the mature, for those who have their powers of discernment trained by constant practice to distinguish good from evil.
This is crystal clear that babes in Christ SHOULD be taught something different than the mature in Christ. (milk vs. meat). Paul believed that infants in Christ NEED milk until they are ready for meat. My question is - How does Voddie teach the children among him in his services what they need (milk), while also teaching the mature what they need (meat)?
Of course parents are called to train their children in the instruction of the Lord. Assuming that parents don't train their kids because a kid goes to church to be taught milk, while a parent is taught meat, is an unnecessary assumption that in no way impacts the fact that infants need milk and the mature need meat, at least according to Paul.
Sobering message. I know this will upset many and rock the boat of youth ministries, but the youth of today in our churches don't have firm foundations of faith. Many times the cliques and fun and games of youth groups don't help. There are sincere, God-fearing leaders in youth ministries, but many times they tend to dumb down the discipleship of the youth instead of backing up the parents (Ephesians 6:4). Unfortunately, this movement is such the norm in most churches, just suggesting an overhaul or an outright abolishing of it would get you kicked out of church.
I picture showing this video to each youth group in every church. The kids' eyes would be opened. They would realize that their parents have dropped the ball. They would (I pray) go home and demand the parents to pick up the reins and drive the family again. Then youth group could become more of a seminar/special event program of higher learning in apologetics, hermaneutics, homiletics, discussion.
The more I listen to Mr. Baucham on the family, the more I realize that parents aren't discipling their children (me included & my parents) & as that goes up, youth ministry goes up. I think that if parents disciple their children, then there would be a lesser need for youth group. I now understand why the youth pastor at my church did not support Mr.Baucham & Mr. Washer in their teaching on these subjects.
Don't get me wrong, he does teach & preach well & from scripture; but he & I do no see eye to eye on this.
My parents don't disciple my brother &I, they only take us to church on Sunday & Wednesday (where on Wednesday night, the children, youth (7th-12th grd), & adults are separated). I would love to have an older man to disciple me (better would be my father, but in all my life I've seldom seen him even pick up the Bible, even in church during the sermon) & to be able to get out of the youth group. I thought it would be my papa, but the Lord called him home last year (he had pancreatic cancer &fought it till the end in pain).
For a reference on my age, I'm a little over 15½. I've been raised in church all my life, was 'saved' at the age of 7 in the pastor's office with my parents there also, only to clean the outside of the cup while the inside was never cleaned. I did stuff with the church, helped with stuff, came when most didn't, looked like a good kid (when no one knew i had impure eyes), and I was decieved by satan &i also decieved the rest who thought I was maturing in the faith &bearing fruit. But then, by the Lord's grace, after a summer camp the youth group went to, that summer I began to read the word of God, began to love it, love my bretheren &be in fellowship, stumbled upon Mr. Baucham, Mr. Washer, Dr. MacArthur, R.C. Sproul, Wretched radio, &desired to grow in Christ. All the while I watched my papa fight cancer, in & out of the hospital, & watched him draw closer to his appointed time. I've fallen, not read scripture for ½ a year & felt horrible about it, rebounded only by the power of God bc I couldn't do it on my own.
Well, I guess that's the first time I really shared my testimony of what the Lord has done in me. It could've only been the Lord, bc I didn't think I would share my testimony today or even in this comment.
Forgive me of my grammar.
Edit: where I am wrong, please correct me& set me straight.
I highly respect Voddie, but I think he swung and missed on this one. His extreme stance on this, saying that the Bible mentions nothing at all about the principle being discussed here, is simply misguided.
1 Cor 3:1-3
3 But I, brothers, could not address you as spiritual people, but as people of the flesh, as infants in Christ. 2 I fed you with milk, not solid food, for you were not ready for it. And even now you are not yet ready, 3 for you are still of the flesh.
Clearly Paul here declares that infants in Christ (regardless of age), should be fed milk, and NOT solid food, because they are not ready for it.
Hebrews 5:11-14
11 About this we have much to say, and it is hard to explain, since you have become dull of hearing. 12 For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you again the basic principles of the oracles of God. You need milk, not solid food, 13 for everyone who lives on milk is unskilled in the word of righteousness, since he is a child. 14 But solid food is for the mature, for those who have their powers of discernment trained by constant practice to distinguish good from evil.
This is crystal clear that babes in Christ SHOULD be taught something different than the mature in Christ. (milk vs. meat). Paul believed that infants in Christ NEED milk until they are ready for meat. My question is - How does Voddie teach the children among him in his services what they need (milk), while also teaching the mature what they need (meat)?
Of course parents are called to train their children in the instruction of the Lord. Assuming that parents don't train their kids because a kid goes to church to be taught milk, while a parent is taught meat, is an unnecessary assumption that in no way impacts the fact that infants need milk and the mature need meat, at least according to Paul.
Voddie’s wisdom is brilliant. I am thankful for his voice, truly one of truth
I highly respect Voddie, but I think he swung and missed on this one. His extreme stance on this, saying that the Bible mentions nothing at all about the principle being discussed here, is simply misguided.
1 Cor 3:1-3
3 But I, brothers, could not address you as spiritual people, but as people of the flesh, as infants in Christ. 2 I fed you with milk, not solid food, for you were not ready for it. And even now you are not yet ready, 3 for you are still of the flesh.
Clearly Paul here declares that infants in Christ (regardless of age), should be fed milk, and NOT solid food, because they are not ready for it.
Hebrews 5:11-14
11 About this we have much to say, and it is hard to explain, since you have become dull of hearing. 12 For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you again the basic principles of the oracles of God. You need milk, not solid food, 13 for everyone who lives on milk is unskilled in the word of righteousness, since he is a child. 14 But solid food is for the mature, for those who have their powers of discernment trained by constant practice to distinguish good from evil.
This is crystal clear that babes in Christ SHOULD be taught something different than the mature in Christ. (milk vs. meat). Paul believed that infants in Christ NEED milk until they are ready for meat. My question is - How does Voddie teach the children among him in his services what they need (milk), while also teaching the mature what they need (meat)?
Of course parents are called to train their children in the instruction of the Lord. Assuming that parents don't train their kids because a kid goes to church to be taught milk, while a parent is taught meat, is an unnecessary assumption that in no way impacts the fact that infants need milk and the mature need meat, at least according to Paul.
I think there is a great deal of good in youth ministry. It's much more of a community then the rest of the congregation, and by targeting teaching by age group, it's easier to teach on subjects that relate to the student's lives and easier for them to find peers going through the same things. The wider the age group, the harder it is to give teaching that hits everyone.
This is such a great video, I wish everyone could see it.
I disagree with his matter on this subject.. and here is the foundation for Youth Ministry or any other ministry that any Christian maybe be led to start!
1 Corinthians 12:4-6
4 “There are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5There are differences of ministries, but the same Lord. 6And there are diversities of activities, but it is the same God who works all in all.”
Now the Holy Spirit through Paul turns to diversity and catalogue of spiritual gifts. God’s plan for the church is diversity, not uniformity, in spiritual gifts. Each member of the Trinity has a role in spiritual gifts: the Holy Spirit distributes the gifts, the Lord places people in ministry, and the Father empowers people to do ministry. There are varieties in gifts, ministries, and effects but they all have sameness in the Trinity. God’s doctrine is diversity in unity, not uniformity.
12:4
There are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
The word “gift” is the Greek word charismata. The charis part of the word means grace. The ma portion of the word is the passive suffix meaning that it is a grace given. They are grace-gifts. God did the giving or bestowing of the gift upon us. These gifts are not native within us like natural talents. Both Christian and non-Christian alike share capacity for talent but only Christians have spiritual gifts. A gift is a special, supernatural enablement or capacity to do the work of God. Spiritual gifts are not natural capacities; they are supernaturally bestowed capacity.
“Diversities” means distributions, distinctions, allotments, apportionments. The word suggests a separation of something already joined together. God distributes gifts in many varieties. No one gets all the “gifts” for there are different kinds for different people. There are about 20 gifts listed in the New Testament (Ephesians 4:7-11; 1 Corinthians 12:6-8; 1 Peter 4:11).
The “same Spirit” is the Holy Spirit, the third member of the Trinity. The Holy Spirit is the source of all gifts. Sameness comes from source.
12:5
There are differences of ministries, but the same Lord.
As there are diversities of gifts, there are differences of ministry opportunity as well. The word “differences” is the same Greek word as “diversities” in verses four and six. The word “ministries” means forms of services. The plural means different kinds of services. It is possible to have the same gift but have a different ministry. Some may use the gift of evangelism in child evangelism while others may use it on the campus. There is variety in uses of gifts. God does not give special supernatural capacities for the self but to serve.
It is the “same Lord,” that is, the second person of the Trinity, that gives different kinds of service. All ministries represent Christ. We are here to represent Him.
12:6
And there are diversities of activities, but it is the same God who works all in all.
The third category of “diversities” is “activities.” The word “activities” means effects and literally has the idea of what is worked out or energized. This word in the Greek (energemata - energizing) means manifestations of the Spirit’s power as over against human power. This is operational power. God empowers the effect. As with gifts and ministries, God gives different effects or results to ministry. There are different results from the use of gifts. God gives some ministries more fruit than others. Ministries to Muslims do not have the same fruit as other ministries.
It is the “same God,” that is, God the Father who works “all in all.” God works all the gifts in all persons.
PRINCIPLE:
God loves diversity, not uniformity.
APPLICATION:
God loves diversity. He does not use a cookie-cutter to stamp out the same pattern of gifts. Diversity has its underpinning in God Himself. He makes Christians wonderfully different from each other. A choir is one but has at least four sections: bass, tenor, alto, and soprano. Each contributes to a unity of beautiful music. This is more beautiful than a choir of all sopranos. There are many members in the choir but there is only one conductor. A football team with uniformity of all guards is not very exciting or effective. The Christian does not have anything to say about whether he plays guard or quarterback.
Spiritual gifts do not indicate merit or spirituality. We do not have a gift because we are better than someone else or because we have had a certain kind of experience. None of us earns or deserves a gift. It is something we discover and use. We cannot say, “What a great person I am because I have such-and-such gift.” What gifts we possess reside in the sovereign decision of God the Trinity.
God gives special, supernatural gifts to every Christian without exception. Each gift is as important as any other gift. God specially designs each gift for each believer. We cannot do God’s work without special endowment of a spiritual gift. Christian work is simply exercising our spiritual gift. There is no difference between a preacher and a plumber. There is no such thing as a “layman.”
We can neglect our gift or fail to use it but if we do, it will atrophy. If we do not use a muscle, it will atrophy and become weaker and weaker. The Holy Spirit enables us to use our gifts.
I love you pastor Voodie .keep teaching the hard and unadulterated message.
Pastor Voddie !!!!! I've waited over twenty years to hear someone teach such relevant sermons !!!!!!! Never have I heard someone address simple truths in such a bold and clear manner!
I highly respect Voddie, but I think he swung and missed on this one. His extreme stance on this, saying that the Bible mentions nothing at all about the principle being discussed here, is simply misguided.
1 Cor 3:1-3
3 But I, brothers, could not address you as spiritual people, but as people of the flesh, as infants in Christ. 2 I fed you with milk, not solid food, for you were not ready for it. And even now you are not yet ready, 3 for you are still of the flesh.
Clearly Paul here declares that infants in Christ (regardless of age), should be fed milk, and NOT solid food, because they are not ready for it.
Hebrews 5:11-14
11 About this we have much to say, and it is hard to explain, since you have become dull of hearing. 12 For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you again the basic principles of the oracles of God. You need milk, not solid food, 13 for everyone who lives on milk is unskilled in the word of righteousness, since he is a child. 14 But solid food is for the mature, for those who have their powers of discernment trained by constant practice to distinguish good from evil.
This is crystal clear that babes in Christ SHOULD be taught something different than the mature in Christ. (milk vs. meat). Paul believed that infants in Christ NEED milk until they are ready for meat. My question is - How does Voddie teach the children among him in his services what they need (milk), while also teaching the mature what they need (meat)?
Of course parents are called to train their children in the instruction of the Lord. Assuming that parents don't train their kids because a kid goes to church to be taught milk, while a parent is taught meat, is an unnecessary assumption that in no way impacts the fact that infants need milk and the mature need meat, at least according to Paul.
Brilliant. Absolute truth. Gods judgement is on the world and most cannot even see it. Only going to get worse.
This is the truth many are not willing to accept. However, we must do what is right for our children and youth.
Thanks, I have had these views for years and great full to hear it explain so well.Train up a child in the way he should go wasn’t given to the church but the parents.
Love the video. People who think for themselves are so refreshing! I did see the word "ministrys" go by @ 11:19 haha... should be ministries! :D
Man...glory be to the Father through our Lord Jesus Christ for preserving faithful men of God, who hold fast to His Word and keep in step with His Spirit.This message was on point...Nuthin else to be said.To Christ be the glory!!
Amen; to God be all the glory!
I need this brother for a mentor.
God gave him to you via RUclips for that express purpose
He has written amazing books, brother. Check out "What He Must Be to Marry My Daughter" for example.
Needed this
I totally agree with this but very few churches will agree. Because whole industries will collapse if we do this and youth pastors who get paid will be out of a job. Parents who are a little bit tired and send there kids to youth service will have to step up a take responsibility of admonishing there children in the word of God.
We’re from the church and we are here to help
Finally!
Excellent observations brother.
Ken Ham wrote a book about youth ministry , and he tells parents to take their kids out of Sunday school and youth groups.
Nice!! What's it called?
@@isaacleillhikar4566 It's called "Already Gone" by Ken Ham and Britt Beemer. That book completely turned my approach to Sunday school upside-down...God convicted me that I needed to take a curriculum that I co-authored and taught for seven years, throw it in the trash, and start all over again. sevenfootapologist.com
blessings...great man of God....
YES!!!! I grew up in the church, honestly I always disliked youth group and the teen Sunday school classes, I had such a thirst to learn and study the Bible but everything taught was so watered down and game focused. I begged my parents to let me go in with them, they thought I was being weird and anti social. I am now in my 30’s .... I can only think of two others (out of over 40) who are still in church today... they are the pastors children.
Thank you for this perspective. May God continue to reach out.
Great video
I agree with you sir
Compelling...truly
Excellent
Great point about the staff not sending their kids to youth groups. It's almost a kind of bullying or guilt trip to make them go.
All i can say is WOW! This teaching is so on point, we must abolish. As a kid I enjoyed being in church with my mother and I cried when she tried to get me to go to childrens church so my mom never forced me I stayed with her. I later went on to lead a Youth Ministry and I agree with everything this Man of God has said.
Amen!! You got me all hyped up Voddie!! 😂🙏🏽♥️👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽
I highly respect Voddie, but I think he swung and missed on this one. His extreme stance on this, saying that the Bible mentions nothing at all about the principle being discussed here, is simply misguided.
1 Cor 3:1-3
3 But I, brothers, could not address you as spiritual people, but as people of the flesh, as infants in Christ. 2 I fed you with milk, not solid food, for you were not ready for it. And even now you are not yet ready, 3 for you are still of the flesh.
Clearly Paul here declares that infants in Christ (regardless of age), should be fed milk, and NOT solid food, because they are not ready for it.
Hebrews 5:11-14
11 About this we have much to say, and it is hard to explain, since you have become dull of hearing. 12 For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you again the basic principles of the oracles of God. You need milk, not solid food, 13 for everyone who lives on milk is unskilled in the word of righteousness, since he is a child. 14 But solid food is for the mature, for those who have their powers of discernment trained by constant practice to distinguish good from evil.
This is crystal clear that babes in Christ SHOULD be taught something different than the mature in Christ. (milk vs. meat). Paul believed that infants in Christ NEED milk until they are ready for meat. My question is - How does Voddie teach the children among him in his services what they need (milk), while also teaching the mature what they need (meat)?
Of course parents are called to train their children in the instruction of the Lord. Assuming that parents don't train their kids because a kid goes to church to be taught milk, while a parent is taught meat, is an unnecessary assumption that in no way impacts the fact that infants need milk and the mature need meat, at least according to Paul.
Been catching up on Voddie Baucham videos. How could I have never heard of him before? We homeschool and it truly is a lifestyle. We have never found a congregation nearby that values being with children and worshiping together. It's all about sending the kids out to minister to other kids at school. They have a bias against those who homeschool. It almost seems like they have no "use" for them because the marketing and recruitment needs to be done in the schools by the kids also, and homeschoolers aren't able to help with that. It does seem like there may be a financial motive sometimes. I couldn't agree more with Mr Bauchman.
Couldn’t agree more!!! Rather than encouraging children to grow in knowledge and faithfulness, the church makes it all about being a missionary in the public school.
Church and Family Life has a lookup feature where you can find "family integrated" churches
soo Grateful l saw this message soo much truth behind every word and answered ALOT OF QUESTIONS ive had about YOUTH MINISTRY. Ive Always thought and said why are we in one area and our children in another? we should be all getting the same message as we do every night at home. Im in Agreement with this message.
I highly respect Voddie, but I think he swung and missed on this one. His extreme stance on this, saying that the Bible mentions nothing at all about the principle being discussed here, is simply misguided.
1 Cor 3:1-3
3 But I, brothers, could not address you as spiritual people, but as people of the flesh, as infants in Christ. 2 I fed you with milk, not solid food, for you were not ready for it. And even now you are not yet ready, 3 for you are still of the flesh.
Clearly Paul here declares that infants in Christ (regardless of age), should be fed milk, and NOT solid food, because they are not ready for it.
Hebrews 5:11-14
11 About this we have much to say, and it is hard to explain, since you have become dull of hearing. 12 For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you again the basic principles of the oracles of God. You need milk, not solid food, 13 for everyone who lives on milk is unskilled in the word of righteousness, since he is a child. 14 But solid food is for the mature, for those who have their powers of discernment trained by constant practice to distinguish good from evil.
This is crystal clear that babes in Christ SHOULD be taught something different than the mature in Christ. (milk vs. meat). Paul believed that infants in Christ NEED milk until they are ready for meat. My question is - How does Voddie teach the children among him in his services what they need (milk), while also teaching the mature what they need (meat)?
Of course parents are called to train their children in the instruction of the Lord. Assuming that parents don't train their kids because a kid goes to church to be taught milk, while a parent is taught meat, is an unnecessary assumption that in no way impacts the fact that infants need milk and the mature need meat, at least according to Paul.
This was an awesome interview! I really enjoyed it!
This is spot on
I'll be one to say I'm glad I had a youth ministry to go to in middle and high school.
Yes, yes, yes.... I'm so glad someone can express these logical conclusions in an understandable way.
I think we should start with teaching families how to disciple their own kids.
Thanks, Voddie
When I was a kid I was in several youth ministries at several different churches. I didn't know the Lord until I was a grown adult with my own child. I never really heard of sin much didn't even understand the gospel. I had no idea about theology or who the Lord was . I always said I was a Christian but I certainly wasn't until I was actually saved.
This is really really good stuff!!!! I do think there needs to be some church reformation on a whole.
God bless you real good dear brother,am so glad cos for a while now I have noticed so many flaws.. most youth church only teach entertainment and camps
This is great!
I wonder what Brother Baucham would say to our (the Church's) use of the worship leader.
Thanks
It seems to me the solution is to gear ministry towards the fathers and parents. Go to the _head_ of the family and teach him _how_ to disciple his family.
Overall well said... I like remind everyone how old the disciples were when called. “Teenagers” with most likely only Peter was over 19. How Bible only stayed that he and Jesus needed to pay temple tax is one example. It’s was common for teenagers 14-17 to choose a rabbi to follow. Except in this case Jesus choose them. Jesus waited until he was 30 because that was the age that one could become a Rabbi. So God started his church with maybe only Peter being 21 and the rest around 19 by the time of Pentecost. Jesus never dumbed down his teaching to his disciples. He taught straight truth! So should we. How many students are biblical illiterate. It’s all programs. I have 4 sons and I feel like I failed too although we have regular bible studies at home. I teach my kids doctrines and theology. It’s a hard place, but I believe we need to be praying more, studying our word and teaching what the Bible says without dumbing it down. It will either bring fruit or we will get let go because most kids will not want it and leave, which is very biblical... It is those that stay that we should pour into.
33:07 Voddie meant John Newton here. He wrote Amazing Grace.
Market segmentation got its nose in under the tent approximately 30 years ago. It is worldly thinking not heavenly thinking. Here is an old adage. We are the flock of Christ. In a flock, the lambs feed with the sheep not in another pasture.
8:33-8:42 was EXACTLY what I used to do as a youth pastor.