Voddie Baucham mentions a similar trend. Youth get used to a certain church experience - entertainment and less teaching. They grow and need a separate church from the old fogeys. So they have college church. Then they have college/career church. Then they turn the main church into entertainment. And here we are.
Our daughter (14 yo) was allowed to go to youth group for the first time last night. We homeschool and raise our children in an "old school" way. Within 90 min she was asked about how hot the boys were and which ones she liked, was told that most of the kids smoke and drink and was asked how much profanity does she listen to in her music. This is in a rural "safe" town of 1500 in Oklahoma. Needless to say we'll not be back but it was an encouragement to us as parents on why we homeschool.
My kids aren't youth group age yet, but what you described is exactly what my youth group experience was. I imagine some youth groups are edifying, but they are a rare exception.
@@andrewcosta2760 What's even more disturbing was we found out that the youth minister was a former substance abuser who killed two people with his vehicle. As in he ran over one person then a year later did a hit and run with another person while under the influence. Yet he served no jail time and people love to say that "he has a wonderful testimony". As a mother I about died over this.
@@amyk3328 Good gracious, yikes. Good thing your daughter talks to you about this stuff. Yeah, another thing is often some "edgy" young man is put in charge of these youth groups. Someone who is supposed to relate to the teens.
@@andrewcosta2760 Yeah, he's a local man who grew up here and I think they reason that he can steer some of the local teens straight. I'm not so confident. As for our daughter we have always been close and the fact that she comes to us is one of the pleasant results of homeschooling.
Exactly right! This is what happens when kids go to public school, the building service doesn't mean anything, they are steeped and indoctrinated in a whole different humanist philosophy based on evilution and with the peer's influence which is sickening and idiotic. I hope your daughter recovers and is not stained for the rest of her life...
Wholeheartedly agree with this pastor. In saying this, I loved my youth group growing up. I was truly discipled and it laid the foundation for me spiritually, as my mother, immediate family, etc. were not really followers.
I went to a church that was pretty integrated - everyone of all ages just kind of interacted (not perfectly, and there was a weekly ‘youth group’ event specially for teens, but there was no psychological barrier between them). Then a young pastor came in and formally partitioned out the groups, and all the drama and division started. Also, Hail Lobster.
Balanced, Biblical, and wise thoughts on youth groups. Sometimes youth groups can be harmful, but sometimes, done right, youth ministry can be fine. The one thing it can't do is usurp the authority of the parent to teach their children (Deuteronomy 6:6-9, Proverbs 1:8, Ephesians 6:4). Many times youth ministry is geared towards replacing the parent, emphasizing fun and games, and separating youth from the parents in the matter of worship and discipleship. As Christians, we want to be careful about how we approach youth ministry because we want to be part of their sanctification by the truth of the Word (John 17:17), not disciple them in a way that would be a detriment.
Agreed. However, what many don't seem to acknowledge is that for a whole lot of students, they are not hearing the Gospel anywhere except for from their youth pastor. If their parents are unbelievers and not teaching them about Christ regardless, I don't see where it does any good to have nobody teach them about Christ.
When I was growing up (I’m 57), my Sunday School teaching, from about 6 years old to about 11 years old, was really structured, scriptural and invaluable. After we went on to be dealt with by the youth leaders for the young adults, those leaders didn’t really know what to do with us , and it suddenly became very un structured. I, like most of the others, dropped out of church at that point. I think that We would have benefitted greatly from a good structure at that time , rather than being just left to sulk and pass the time. When the hormones ‘kick in,’ during the ‘teens’, it can be a very difficult and insecure time for teenagers: just the time for the devil to be able to take advantage!
@@jimmyniland9721 Dear Pilgrim Jimmy ... Sounds like another XYZ cop out ... WHY DIDN'T YOU put into practice as a teenager what you were taught ... instead of blaming the "sharers of the Word?" Evidently, you were not listening all those young formative years? Respectfully submitted.
Youth's Groups are a cop out for the XYZ Generations. When I was growing up (i.e. the Great Generation) the word teenager wasn't an excuse in the church ... we were called young men and young ladies!
The great generation made the youth groups and calling it a cop out for us is a cop out for your generation not taking responsibility for teaching the next properly
@@repentorperish1386 Dear Confused Pilgrim Repent or Perish ...The Great Generation did not make the youth groups the generation after them i.e. the Baby Boomers made youth groups. This shows that you really don't know what you are talking about. Grow up ... Read your Bible and take responsibility for your own life and stop blaming your shortcomings of your generation on the older generations. Amen!
@@aonewatchman and who's parents were the boomers? What exactly did i say that makes you think i don't take responsibility for my life. You need to repent of your idols my friend. You have judged me when i judged your words. Do you not see your pride in your so called generation is your idol. I do read my bible thank you for the encouragement though. See what you did, you assumed something about me based on my generation. I only spoke of your generation not you personally. Do you not see the difference in the way I've addressed you and your statements, but all you did was assume something about me and try to correct my misgivings while missing my point all together. Now maybe that is my fault for not clarifying. I'll do that now. I'm a millennial, my father's generation thinks we are lazy. His father's thinks his is lazy. And his father's father's thinks that one is lazy. However, what everyone who makes such a condescending statement as its just used as a cop out for every generation but mine, which is what you said, fails to recognize THEY taught the generation after them. So, in conclusion to my thesis, if generation Z is lazy then its their parents fault. Moreover, that can be traced back to the great generation (your generation) and, it is indeed the last of the greats that failed to teach their kids how to properly function. You got upset i called you out. And made personal assumptions about me that i did not make about you, because you had no argument. You assumed i don't even read my bible. The manner in which you spoke to me for correcting your misgivings is astonishing, but I've come to expect it from your generation really. No wonder the boomers turned out the way they did. Please know that i mean no disrespect to you, but i will not be condescending spoken to on the internet by someone who knows nothing about me. There is a narrative out there that is propagated by all the older generations that we younger generations stink, but all the older generations forget they raised us. So tske your own advice, humble yourself and read your bible before telling some stranger to. Especially when you clearly lack the humility to stop and think before typing, which is far worse than speaking before thinking.
@@repentorperish1386 Dear Confused Pilgrim ... I know all about you ... I am 76 years old which makes me have three times your life experience. With each year of life we learn more therefore this is how I know about you and your generation but you don't know about my generation because you have not lived 76 years. What you need to do right now is listen to living words of experience ... my words as a Born for above believer who wants you to understand that I am not judging you but that your father and you yourself is/are judging you. If people fall short in life (i.e., for whatever the reason) it cannot be blamed on another generation but it is because of that individual's own decisions in life. We all are where we are today because of all the personal decisions we have made not because some older generation did not teach us this or that. Take reasponsibility for your life. If you don't like where you are then make reasponsible decision to better yourself ... don't blame some other generation for your problems. Don't feel sorry for yourself ... there is a saying my grandfather told me: "I cried because I had no shoes ... until I met a man who had no legs!" Therefore because of my age (i.e. my76 years of LIFE EXPERIENCE0 ... I can see you in my life when I was younger ... with more life experience comes more understanding about life ... so to cut to the chase ... my recommendations to you is to get closer to your Creator - the Living God. If you start reading the Bible God says in His Holy Words .... "If you will come closer to me ... I will come closer to you." Acts 2:38 tells you the first commandment in the Bible to the God's New Testament Believers. It tells you what you must do to have God come closer to you to explain all about life. Go there and read what you must do and then when you start reading the Bible you will learn that one becomes closer to God by Believing and Obeying His Word with Love and Perseverance without "adding or subtracting" from His Word. Good luck in your journey and God teach you patients and understanding of what He want with you. Respectfully submitted as my Scriptural understanding, I share with you what His Spirit has shared with my spirit. A Watchman of His Word ... Peter
@@aonewatchman the hypocrisy of that statement is outstanding. You poor fool are 76 which is only a year older than the boomers. Which makes you a product of the boomer culture. Your arrogance because of your age is nothing. You have judged me because of my generation not knowing anything about me. The same complaints you have about my generation are the same complaints i have. Again, you assume i do not read the bible or study the word. In your ignorance you've made yourself a fool. See again that you judge me and not what i say, but i judge your words and their meaning. Please have some humility my friend. I know my faults, you do not. I've not made any statements about you only about what you've written and the implications of that. You try to sound wise and faithful, yet it's clear you are doing it because you have no defense. Please understand what I'm saying. If gen 1 says gen 2 is bad. Gen 1 has no right to complain because gen 1 taught gen 2 to be bad. Gen 2 are adults and clearly responsible for their actions. Because of your prejudicial presuppositions of my generation you thought i was trying to blame older generations and in a since maybe. However, i also recognize that the older people screwed it up for us and now blame us, but its still up to us to fix the mess all of us have made of the culture. You can't even recognize that im calling your generation out for its hypocrisy while taking responsibility for my generation. You wont even acknowledge your generations shortcomings. And that what makes you a hypocrite. Repent or perish friend
Great questions and great answers in this video! We can acknowledge that youth ministry can be done well, without ignoring the fact that it usually isn't.
so many parents in my church have a "drop off" mentality. they just put the whole responsibility of discipleship onto the youth pastor. and there is no spirituality in their homes from monday to saturday. that's why so many kids leave the church, because of their parent's hypocrisy.
I had a different experience...kept my kids at a confessional, small church with few people and general lack of concern from others in the church. I regret that. Now I take my kids to a non-denominational church that has those who love Christ and a "youth group" that is imperfect but objectively better than where we were going.
Canon Press Lol! I’m really enjoying your channel after watching for the past couple of days- thank you for the edifying material in my rediscovery of Christianity. I look forward to more material and videos from you all.
Hey my community is spiritualy enforcing a palms children healing ministry in my home province which i believe it really works to get the sick to and in pain relief from their long sick in bed. I truely believe and support this palms children healing ministry working alongside the catholic and Anglican churches. They commonly combined Anglican and catholic powerful healing prayers which i witness miracles do happen. I do support this palms childrens healing ministry here in the solomon islands. They are not working against any church but remain to maintain the catholic faith to bring youths who are lost to return in the catholic church. It also to convince all Anglicanism to return to the Roman catholic church the only true church.
I’m looking at assuming a pastoral role in a Church and one of the duties will be to lead/oversee the youth group. I am considering running it as partly an apologetics class by which I can prepare them for the attacks they will hear often when they get to college, also a focus on gender roles and an understanding of Biblical manhood and womanhood, these two issues for a start with the primary being of course a solid Biblical understanding of the Gospel which would be a constant unchanging theme. I’m unsure as to how I might continue their education while re-teaching these principles to new members. Also I’m wondering how much time should be given to team building activities ect to try to create a unity between them for strong and enduring Christian fellowship. Any ideas?
I love the idea that you want to teach apologetics to your youth, and all the focuses you mentioned sound highly appropriate and wise. As someone who had apologetics lessons during high school, I can tell you that I appreciated it so much. I think this is a good way to teach youth, especially those already in the church who need to understand what 1 Peter 3:15 means. As to encouraging Christian fellowship, I know as a youngster I liked having time to have fun with my friends from church, but I have seen as I have grown older, fellowship blooms by encouraging prayer among the youth. Prayer with just one person, prayer in a group of three, prayer with just girls, prayer with just boys, prayer time where an older student is tasked with leading a younger group in prayer, etc. Scripture says to pray without ceasing. And when we come together to pray, we can share repentance, be vulnerable, and proclaim the Lord's praises. These three things are what made me most strongly connected to my friends in Christian fellowship. And it still does as an "adult" Just my two cents worth and admittedly my opinion based on experience, but some ideas for you.
When I went to Florida I rejected three churches in a row partially based on the youth group. All they want to do is play football or shoot marshmallow guns or some such nonsense. It's absolutely absurd.
I truly believe that the learning process should be able to get the young youth to be able to get the basic learning about the church encouraging them to be catholicism as their true church..
Common theme in youth group- you’ll have a married youth minister and he’ll pick an assistant. And the person is usually a type A .. female from the youth group. Now is it me or is the something terribly wrong with this formulation.
My concern is this points pastors to gathering the "right type of people" so that they might minister to the poor, or the non-Christian young people in their locale.
I left the last Christian fellowship I was involved with precisely because the “pastor” who was a former “youth pastor” ( not a Biblical concept in the slightest, BTW) refused to recognize that he was organizing and developing “his” “church” along the lines of a “Youth ministry”. But it wasn’t really his fault. That’s what he had learned from his church. That was all he knew. You become a “pastor” and you start a church. So, not only was he engaged in a non-Biblical activity, he was going about it in an ineffective way. The best he will do is to treat his adult congregation as if they are members of an adult Youth Group.
While i am very thankful for Doug i think he refutes himself a few times in this video. By drawing on Ephesians 6 he points out that Paul addresses various groups within a congregation, much like would happen in a family integrated church sermon. Then he also advocates that pastors also teach children not just parents. Which again also happens in a family integrated service. No one is saying kids shouldnt learn from anyone else. Basically, his references strengthen his opposition and expose his own eisegesis on this matter which is heavily influenced by philosophy not Scripture
I always thought the problem with youth groups nowadays is that the lessons teached are irrelevant to issues of the world today. Its always fluff and never anything useful
Where does Paul tell young men to teach all the teenagers and women to teach women the scriptures? no he doesn’t if you think he does read the passages more carefully women are to teach women how to have a godly home and relationships not doctrine and theology and kids need to learn form men and women if they don’t wanna be delinquents
That’s really an argument from silence though. Where do you draw the line about what is verbally addressed in the NT and what is not? We obviously don’t meet in homes by and large anymore, the Lord’s Supper is no longer a shared meal as it was in the first century. I think the Holy Spirit allows for organized freedom provided that it’s within His guidelines
@@adamsmith4195 the Bible use the word law in several different senses. The word law can be used in a general sense talking about the Bible or Epistemological truth in the Bible. The law in the strictest sense is to be distinguished from the the gospel in it's pure and saving sense.
I largely disagree with Doug. The view that youths don't attend corporate services is not accurate. When youths become adults, if they belong to a healthy church, they will have been encouraged to attend "whole of church" services in order to start the journey of belonging to a family that is much larger than the youth ministry.
Paul was an Apostle and had Apostolic authority ... there are no true Apostles or Apostolic Authority today, the only teacher is the Word of God ... so called "clergy" have no authority to pass judgment on their fellow man ... I don't recognize any clergy pretending to be someone extra special than his fellow man. Jesus and His Word is the only Preacher I recognize! I GO TO BIBLE ... NOT TO CHURCH ... the Bible is the Word of God ... Churches today are the "traditions of men!"
Peter, no offense, but your statement is unbiblical in so many ways. There is an office in the church that is an authority, it is bishop/elder/pastor (all three terms are the same in scripture). And no pastor thinks he's something "special," but he has been called to preach the Word in all circumstances (2 Timothy 4:2). And while the Word of God is for teaching and sanctification (John 17:17), Ephesians 4:11-16 clearly recognizes pastors and teachers as an office to teach Christians. 1 Timothy 3:2 says the Bishop is apt to teach. Titus 1:9 shows that even the Bishops are taught so they will be able, by sound doctrine, to exhort those that contradict sound doctrine. And many epistles begin by speaking to the saints in particular churches; the word church means the "called out ones," and we're not to neglect the assembly of each other (Hebrews 10:25). I find it interesting that whenever someone complains about all churches in a generalized way and say they only go to the Bible and to Christ, they reveal two things about their complaint. First, that they've been either burned by a bad church or they've been reprimanded Biblically by a good church. Either one leaves a bad taste in your mouth, therefore now you get on a high horse thinking you're more "spiritual" than someone else by bashing all churches and being a lone ranger Christian. This is not in scripture. Second, you say you go to the Bible, but neglect the very verses that talk about church and church leadership because you want to pick and choose what fits your emotional-driven beliefs. I pray that you study the Word rightly (2 Timothy 2:15, Acts 17:11) before bashing every church (because there are thousands upon thousands all over that you've never been to) and thinking you don't need a shepherd to guide you in the truth of the Word. Self-study with the Holy Spirit is important, but the Holy Spirit also uses the God-given institution of the church and church leadership to teach/preach as well.
@@2timothy23 Dear Confused Pilgrim Eric Smith ... Thank you for your traditions of men opinion but the Bible says otherwise ... Dear Pilgrim - God talks directly to believers today through “the anointing!” (1 John 2: 27) says, “As for you, the anointing which you received from Him abides in you, and you have no need for anyone to teach you; but as His anointing teaches you about all things, and is true and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you abide in Him.” NOTE - (see Acts 2: 38) to learn how one obtains the anointing! Pilgrim - the Bible tells us that in the 1st Century - Apostles appointed elders/leaders with divine authority called “Apostolic Authority.” (Acts 14:23) says, “Paul and Barnabas appointed elders for them in each church and, with prayer and fasting, committed them to the Lord, in whom they had put their trust.” Also, in the 1st Century, the Apostles appointed elders indirectly by delegated authority to “mini-apostles” like Paul did to Titus. Paul says in (Titus 1:5) - “The reason I left you (Titus) in Crete was that you might put in order what was left unfinished and appoint elders in every town, as I directed you.” Thus, an Apostle’s Apostolic authority was necessary for Scriptural elder/leader selection in the 1st Century but the Bible does not say How elders are to be selected after the passing of the Apostles and their Apostolic Authority! Here are some unanswered questions about the selection of elder/leaders: Pilgrim - Who nominates elders/leaders today and how are they placed on the ballot? Who then is allowed to vote for the nominees, is it just men, men and women or everyone including children? Also, must the winner have a majority, a plurality or must it be unanimous? Is there a set term for an elder/leader? If so, how long is that term? How can elders/leaders be removed? Once again (if it is by vote) must there be a majority, a plurality or must it be unanimous? Does anyone oversee the elder/leaders? If so, who evaluate elder/leaders and how is this done? Are there yearly or periodic report cards? What if an elder’s wife dies - must the elder step down? And, what if an elder refuse to step down, etc., etc.??? Pilgrim, if “God is Not the author of chaos or confusion but of peace in all the churches of the saints” (1Corinthians 14:33) … Then … Why all this chaos and confusion Today … What could be the answer? Pilgrim - Before you learn the answer, you must first understand the problem! The problem today is that there are now over 44,000 different Christian church denominations (i.e. each with their own “traditions of men” selecting elders and making leadership choices) BUT the fact that God’s Holy Spirit can only Scripturally dwell in God’s one true church - DICTATES that There can be NO Scriptural elders/leaders today in churches! Pilgrim - The Fact is that even though the 1st Century (corporate) assembly (i.e. with elders as the vehicle to instruct/lead Believers to God’s Will) ended with the death of the last Apostle …All is not lost! Paul says in (1Corinthians 13:10-12) - “but when the perfect comes, the partial will be done away. 11 When I was a child, I used to speak like a child, think like a child, reason like a child; when I became a man, I did away with childish things. 12 For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face; now I know in part, but then I will know fully just as I also have been fully known.” Note - The promised “perfect” that Paul speaks of “to know God fully” as “God knows us fully” must be accessed on this side, since All Scripture says we only have our lifetime in which to come “to know God fully.” Upon death, our fate is sealed; all that we have thought, said and done while in the body is then judged against the Word of God. Pilgrim - Here are the events that occurred at the end of the 1st Century that necessitated God’s giving of “the perfect:” #l). All Apostles had died and so died “Apostolic Authority” (i.e. the Holy Spirit inspired Apostles’ instruction to the church), #2). All things Israel were destroyed including the Temple and tribal lineage records which thus officially ended the Old Testament Covenant, #3). The New Testament Covenant began fully when the Holy Spirit was given to the Gentiles, #4). The churches became Worldlier, so much so, that the Apostles had to write 29 epistles (i.e. letters of correction and instruction) to help the churches and #5). By Circa 70 A.D. the Bible Canon was complete; the Holy Spirit NOW spiritually anoints each Baptized Believer so they can understand God’s completed Word and Will in the Bible. Pilgrim listen again to today’s Scripture wherein the Apostle John explains the importance of God’s Holy Spirit that indwells the Believer at adult full immersion Baptism so as to personally instruct him: “As for you, the anointing which you received from Him abides in you, and you have no need for anyone to teach you; but as His anointing teaches you about all things, and is true and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you abide in Him.” (1 John 2: 27) THEREFORE - Pilgrim - Get “the anointing” to know God fully while there is still time! “For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each of us may receive what is due us for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad.” (2 Corinthians 5:10) SUMMATION - Pilgrim - Nowhere in the Bible does it sanction the selection of elders/leaders today to corporately instruct or lead members in understanding how to be saved. A personal relationship with Jesus is what saves us; we obtain that personal relationship at our Baptism’s “anointing” when we receive “the gift of the Holy Spirit” who assists us in Believing and Obeying with Love and Perseverance without “adding to or subtracting from The Word of God.” Pilgrim - When you go to Bible …. You go to God’s church! Respectfully submitted as my Scriptural understanding; I share with you what His Spirit has shared with my spirit. Pilgrim - Remember, always “test the spirits” (i.e. the traditions of men) against the Spirit and Word of God (1 John 4:1). A watchman of His Word.
@@aonewatchman You wrote much that can be commented on, but understand that your presupposition is that church authority was given by Apostolic Authority, therefore today you are a skeptic on how someone becomes an elder/bishop. Based on the skepticism, you therefore come to the conclusion that it isn't necessary. This is a wrong presupposition that you yourself are contradicting, and I will explain that briefly in a moment. First, the context of 1 John 2:27 isn't that we're not to have anyone teach you in the church. This would contradict other verses I cited, therefore you make God one of confusion by pitting verses against each other. The context of the 1 John verse is warning Christians not to believe the gnostics of that day that were teaching wrong doctrines and exalting themselves over sound teaching. In misinterpreting this verse, you violate the very verse you cited, 1 Corinthians 14:33. So now you also become part of the problem. Second, you use the problems you see in the church and in how elders become elders as a way to say, "No church." Again, that is searching through scriptures to separate yourself from other believers and authority. Because now you become your own authority and who corrects you? And if you say the Word of God does, then how do you know your interpretation isn't wrong as well? You have no way of knowing but leaning on your own understanding (Proverbs 3:5) and believing you know more about scriptures than others. Again, your more "spiritual" and your understanding is "far greater than others." Can you admit to anyone that you're wrong? Third, you say you need no teacher, but then use verses to "teach" me. Then by your own standard I should disregard everything you just wrote and go to the Bible alone for my direction, because you're just following traditions of men. You see how your own critique can be used against you? And because it can, I can disregard it and anything else you post because now you're "teaching doctrine," but based on your misunderstanding of 1 John 2:27, I can ignore it. So I pray you prayerfully go back and study your Bible and not neglect fellowship with others, but if you don't want to, based on your own way of thinking, I don't need to respond to you again because I'd just be following your advice and going to the Bible. Thanks for reading and goodbye.
@@2timothy23 Dear Confused Pilgrim ... For your understanding : Dear Pilgrim - Those who go to Bible go to the true church! Pilgrim - The Holy Spirit speaks to churches in the Bible: In (Revelation Chapters 2 &3) Seven times the Holy Spirit says to the churches - “He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.” Further, in (Acts 7:48) we read - “The Most High does NOT dwell in houses made by human hands” Pilgrim - The Bible says that the Lord’s Spirit that dwells within His Word also dwells within the Christian’s body! (1 Corinthians 6:19) says - “Don't you realize that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit, who lives in you and was given to you by God?” Pilgrim - How many times have you heard in a church assembly: “Welcome to the Lord’s house” or “It is good to be in the house of the Lord?” These “traditional believes of men” portray a false reality to both the saved and the unsaved. The belief that God’s Spirit in the New Testament lives in a church building instead of within the Saint is not Biblical! Further, most parishioner assume another “tradition of men” - that their meeting in a church building satisfies their religious obligation to God. However, God’s Spirit clearly states in (Acts 7: 48) that “God does not dwell in houses made by human hands.” We know that God’s Spirit did habitat man-made structures in the Old Testament (for example - when God told Moses to build the tabernacle and the Ark of the Covenant) but these were only Old Testament “earthly representations” of a New Testament “spiritual reality” that was yet to come at God’s sending of His Holy Spirit. In (John 4: 21, 23-26) Jesus tells the woman at the well: “Woman, believe Me, an hour is coming when neither in this mountain nor in Jerusalem will you worship the Father… An hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers. 24 “God is spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.” 25 The woman said to Him, “I know that Messiah is coming (He who is called Christ); when that One comes, He will declare all things to us.” 26 Jesus said to her, “I who speak to you am He.” Pilgrim - Jesus speaks to the woman with God’s authority, He says to her, “I who speak to you am He.” Jesus further indicates to her that it is not WHERE you worship that counts, it is HOW you worship that counts! Jesus explains HOW to worship in (verse 24). Jesus says there - "God is spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth!” Pilgrim - God wants worship that is Biblically correct, that which in accordance to His Holy Spirit and His Holy Word! (Romans 8:9) tells us that - “If anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him” and in (John 17:17) Jesus defines that “truth” as the “Word of God” - Jesus says there, "Sanctify them in the truth; Your word is truth!” Further, the Bible says in (1Corinthians 3:10) - “Know ye not that ye are the temple of God and that he Spirit of god dwelleth in you?” Pilgrim, when the Holy Spirit indwells the Believers body, it is our body that becomes the temple of God because of God’s Spirit uniting with our spirit within us allowing us to understand and carry out His Word! Further, in (Romans 8:16) it says - “The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God!” Thus, when we are in complete submission to the Will of God in the Bible, we become One with the Spirit of God who then dwells within us! Pilgrim - Jesus wants us to listen to what His Spirit says to the churches: (Revelation 3: 11-13) says - “‘I am coming quickly; hold fast what you have, so that no one will take your crown. 12‘He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he will not go out from it anymore; and I will write on him the name of My God, and the name of the city of My God, the new Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God, and My new name. 13‘He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.’ NOTE - Only those with the Holy Spirit of God are able to “hear” (Hebrew - “Shema” - (i.e. to understand with complete obedience to His Will). Pilgrim - His Will is His Spirit and Word in the Bible! Further, (Revelation 21:3) says - “And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.” This Scripture says that God will be “with men as their God” for eternity! The term “with” (Greek - meta) means to be joined as One. Pilgrim - What we see today is a small taste of what we will see at the renewal of all things. God’s Holy Spirit in us today is a pattern for what we will experience more fully in the New Jerusalem. God’s New Jerusalem of the future is a spiritual city of His people in covenant with Him, where He lives and dwells spiritually in them. Pilgrim - God’s full church has not met yet. It will meet for the first time when Jesus returns at the renewal of all things to collects all the Scriptural saints so as to presents them to the Father as His church. THEREFORE - God’s true church is made up of individuals who “Shema” (Hebrew - hear Him) i.e. those who are in full submission to both His Spirit and His Word in the Bible. SUMMATION - The Holy Spirit speaks to churches in the Bible! The Spirit says in Scripture: “He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches” … “the Most High does NOT dwell in houses made by human hands” … “know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?” Pilgrim - It is His Spirit and His Word in the Bible that defines God’s Will for Christians. Please Note - God’s Will is NOT determined by the “traditions of men” in “houses that are made by human hands!” Pilgrim - Those who go to Bible go to the true church! Respectfully submitted as my Scriptural understanding; I share with you what has been shared with me. Pilgrim, “test all spirits” (i.e. the traditions of men) against the Spirit and Word of God in the Bible. (1John 4:1). A watchman of His Word
@@2timothy23 Dear Eric ... Gnostic are not mentioned in the Bible .... and you won't answer again ... because you cannot negate the Word of God I quoted to you. Paul said the gifts and the church will end ... you know the two Scriptures of which I speak ... you just don't believe that it has happened as yet!
This is a hard topic for modern man to swallow but you have to realize there is a war going on for your mind and soul. The god of this world, hasatan, is using peer pressure and godless education institutions to pressure kids into unbiblical worldviews by threatening ostracization if they do modern blasphemy and speak against scientific consensus. We are called to trust God above everything else and to not be a part of this world. Recognize there is active deception going on, humble yourself before God and study diligently. 2 Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them. Do you think the god of this world stops at blinding the eyes of people on the gospel or continues on every angle that affects belief?
Voddie Baucham mentions a similar trend. Youth get used to a certain church experience - entertainment and less teaching. They grow and need a separate church from the old fogeys. So they have college church. Then they have college/career church. Then they turn the main church into entertainment. And here we are.
Our daughter (14 yo) was allowed to go to youth group for the first time last night. We homeschool and raise our children in an "old school" way. Within 90 min she was asked about how hot the boys were and which ones she liked, was told that most of the kids smoke and drink and was asked how much profanity does she listen to in her music. This is in a rural "safe" town of 1500 in Oklahoma. Needless to say we'll not be back but it was an encouragement to us as parents on why we homeschool.
My kids aren't youth group age yet, but what you described is exactly what my youth group experience was. I imagine some youth groups are edifying, but they are a rare exception.
@@andrewcosta2760 What's even more disturbing was we found out that the youth minister was a former substance abuser who killed two people with his vehicle. As in he ran over one person then a year later did a hit and run with another person while under the influence. Yet he served no jail time and people love to say that "he has a wonderful testimony". As a mother I about died over this.
@@amyk3328 Good gracious, yikes. Good thing your daughter talks to you about this stuff.
Yeah, another thing is often some "edgy" young man is put in charge of these youth groups. Someone who is supposed to relate to the teens.
@@andrewcosta2760 Yeah, he's a local man who grew up here and I think they reason that he can steer some of the local teens straight. I'm not so confident. As for our daughter we have always been close and the fact that she comes to us is one of the pleasant results of homeschooling.
Exactly right! This is what happens when kids go to public school, the building service doesn't mean anything, they are steeped and indoctrinated in a whole different humanist philosophy based on evilution and with the peer's influence which is sickening and idiotic. I hope your daughter recovers and is not stained for the rest of her life...
Wholeheartedly agree with this pastor. In saying this, I loved my youth group growing up. I was truly discipled and it laid the foundation for me spiritually, as my mother, immediate family, etc. were not really followers.
In the same situation right now!
My son in his early teens most enjoyed being in the elderly group. They enjoyed him too -- to the consternation of the pastor!
I went to a church that was pretty integrated - everyone of all ages just kind of interacted (not perfectly, and there was a weekly ‘youth group’ event specially for teens, but there was no psychological barrier between them). Then a young pastor came in and formally partitioned out the groups, and all the drama and division started.
Also, Hail Lobster.
Balanced, Biblical, and wise thoughts on youth groups. Sometimes youth groups can be harmful, but sometimes, done right, youth ministry can be fine. The one thing it can't do is usurp the authority of the parent to teach their children (Deuteronomy 6:6-9, Proverbs 1:8, Ephesians 6:4). Many times youth ministry is geared towards replacing the parent, emphasizing fun and games, and separating youth from the parents in the matter of worship and discipleship. As Christians, we want to be careful about how we approach youth ministry because we want to be part of their sanctification by the truth of the Word (John 17:17), not disciple them in a way that would be a detriment.
Agreed. However, what many don't seem to acknowledge is that for a whole lot of students, they are not hearing the Gospel anywhere except for from their youth pastor. If their parents are unbelievers and not teaching them about Christ regardless, I don't see where it does any good to have nobody teach them about Christ.
Well said
When I was growing up (I’m 57), my Sunday School teaching, from about 6 years old to about 11 years old, was really structured, scriptural and invaluable. After we went on to be dealt with by the youth leaders for the young adults, those leaders didn’t really know what to do with us , and it suddenly became very un structured. I, like most of the others, dropped out of church at that point. I think that We would have benefitted greatly from a good structure at that time , rather than being just left to sulk and pass the time. When the hormones ‘kick in,’ during the ‘teens’, it can be a very difficult and insecure time for teenagers: just the time for the devil to be able to take advantage!
That's wisdom.
@@jimmyniland9721 Dear Pilgrim Jimmy ... Sounds like another XYZ cop out ... WHY DIDN'T YOU put into practice as a teenager what you were taught ... instead of blaming the "sharers of the Word?" Evidently, you were not listening all those young formative years? Respectfully submitted.
Youth's Groups are a cop out for the XYZ Generations. When I was growing up (i.e. the Great Generation) the word teenager wasn't an excuse in the church ... we were called young men and young ladies!
The great generation made the youth groups and calling it a cop out for us is a cop out for your generation not taking responsibility for teaching the next properly
@@repentorperish1386 Dear Confused Pilgrim Repent or Perish ...The Great Generation did not make the youth groups the generation after them i.e. the Baby Boomers made youth groups. This shows that you really don't know what you are talking about. Grow up ... Read your Bible and take responsibility for your own life and stop blaming your shortcomings of your generation on the older generations. Amen!
@@aonewatchman and who's parents were the boomers? What exactly did i say that makes you think i don't take responsibility for my life. You need to repent of your idols my friend. You have judged me when i judged your words. Do you not see your pride in your so called generation is your idol. I do read my bible thank you for the encouragement though. See what you did, you assumed something about me based on my generation. I only spoke of your generation not you personally. Do you not see the difference in the way I've addressed you and your statements, but all you did was assume something about me and try to correct my misgivings while missing my point all together. Now maybe that is my fault for not clarifying. I'll do that now.
I'm a millennial, my father's generation thinks we are lazy. His father's thinks his is lazy. And his father's father's thinks that one is lazy. However, what everyone who makes such a condescending statement as its just used as a cop out for every generation but mine, which is what you said, fails to recognize THEY taught the generation after them. So, in conclusion to my thesis, if generation Z is lazy then its their parents fault. Moreover, that can be traced back to the great generation (your generation) and, it is indeed the last of the greats that failed to teach their kids how to properly function. You got upset i called you out. And made personal assumptions about me that i did not make about you, because you had no argument. You assumed i don't even read my bible. The manner in which you spoke to me for correcting your misgivings is astonishing, but I've come to expect it from your generation really. No wonder the boomers turned out the way they did.
Please know that i mean no disrespect to you, but i will not be condescending spoken to on the internet by someone who knows nothing about me. There is a narrative out there that is propagated by all the older generations that we younger generations stink, but all the older generations forget they raised us. So tske your own advice, humble yourself and read your bible before telling some stranger to. Especially when you clearly lack the humility to stop and think before typing, which is far worse than speaking before thinking.
@@repentorperish1386 Dear Confused Pilgrim ... I know all about you ... I am 76 years old which makes me have three times your life experience. With each year of life we learn more therefore this is how I know about you and your generation but you don't know about my generation because you have not lived 76 years. What you need to do right now is listen to living words of experience ... my words as a Born for above believer who wants you to understand that I am not judging you but that your father and you yourself is/are judging you. If people fall short in life (i.e., for whatever the reason) it cannot be blamed on another generation but it is because of that individual's own decisions in life. We all are where we are today because of all the personal decisions we have made not because some older generation did not teach us this or that. Take reasponsibility for your life. If you don't like where you are then make reasponsible decision to better yourself ... don't blame some other generation for your problems. Don't feel sorry for yourself ... there is a saying my grandfather told me: "I cried because I had no shoes ... until I met a man who had no legs!" Therefore because of my age (i.e. my76 years of LIFE EXPERIENCE0 ... I can see you in my life when I was younger ... with more life experience comes more understanding about life ... so to cut to the chase ... my recommendations to you is to get closer to your Creator - the Living God. If you start reading the Bible God says in His Holy Words .... "If you will come closer to me ... I will come closer to you." Acts 2:38 tells you the first commandment in the Bible to the God's New Testament Believers. It tells you what you must do to have God come closer to you to explain all about life. Go there and read what you must do and then when you start reading the Bible you will learn that one becomes closer to God by Believing and Obeying His Word with Love and Perseverance without "adding or subtracting" from His Word. Good luck in your journey and God teach you patients and understanding of what He want with you. Respectfully submitted as my Scriptural understanding, I share with you what His Spirit has shared with my spirit. A Watchman of His Word ... Peter
@@aonewatchman the hypocrisy of that statement is outstanding. You poor fool are 76 which is only a year older than the boomers. Which makes you a product of the boomer culture. Your arrogance because of your age is nothing. You have judged me because of my generation not knowing anything about me. The same complaints you have about my generation are the same complaints i have. Again, you assume i do not read the bible or study the word. In your ignorance you've made yourself a fool. See again that you judge me and not what i say, but i judge your words and their meaning. Please have some humility my friend. I know my faults, you do not. I've not made any statements about you only about what you've written and the implications of that. You try to sound wise and faithful, yet it's clear you are doing it because you have no defense. Please understand what I'm saying. If gen 1 says gen 2 is bad. Gen 1 has no right to complain because gen 1 taught gen 2 to be bad. Gen 2 are adults and clearly responsible for their actions. Because of your prejudicial presuppositions of my generation you thought i was trying to blame older generations and in a since maybe. However, i also recognize that the older people screwed it up for us and now blame us, but its still up to us to fix the mess all of us have made of the culture. You can't even recognize that im calling your generation out for its hypocrisy while taking responsibility for my generation. You wont even acknowledge your generations shortcomings. And that what makes you a hypocrite. Repent or perish friend
Its hard to get a concise answer about anything theological out of Doug.
But after I do hear his answers, Its worth it.
I think sometimes these issues aren't so black and white. It can come down to the specific church and even conscience in this type of situation.
Great questions and great answers in this video! We can acknowledge that youth ministry can be done well, without ignoring the fact that it usually isn't.
so many parents in my church have a "drop off" mentality.
they just put the whole responsibility of discipleship onto the youth pastor.
and there is no spirituality in their homes from monday to saturday.
that's why so many kids leave the church, because of their parent's hypocrisy.
Outstanding. Perfectly stated
Pure gold
I had a different experience...kept my kids at a confessional, small church with few people and general lack of concern from others in the church. I regret that. Now I take my kids to a non-denominational church that has those who love Christ and a "youth group" that is imperfect but objectively better than where we were going.
I don’t agree with everything Doug says but he is EXACTLY right here....spot on
That's okay, we don't expect Doug to be right 100% of the time. :)
Canon Press Lol! I’m really enjoying your channel after watching for the past couple of days- thank you for the edifying material in my rediscovery of Christianity. I look forward to more material and videos from you all.
@@knownuniverse93 Appreciate the good words! Keep reading that Bible and God bless.
Canon Press Thank you so much- i will. And God Bless to you as well! Thank you
That’s ok, you are allowed to be wrong, like the rest of us.
Hey my community is spiritualy enforcing a palms children healing ministry in my home province which i believe it really works to get the sick to and in pain relief from their long sick in bed. I truely believe and support this palms children healing ministry working alongside the catholic and Anglican churches. They commonly combined Anglican and catholic powerful healing prayers which i witness miracles do happen. I do support this palms childrens healing ministry here in the solomon islands. They are not working against any church but remain to maintain the catholic faith to bring youths who are lost to return in the catholic church. It also to convince all Anglicanism to return to the Roman catholic church the only true church.
I fell deeply in love with a boy in youth group named Lee. He was so beautiful to me in every way. I loved him so.....
Problem was, he wasn't gay.
I’m looking at assuming a pastoral role in a Church and one of the duties will be to lead/oversee the youth group. I am considering running it as partly an apologetics class by which I can prepare them for the attacks they will hear often when they get to college, also a focus on gender roles and an understanding of Biblical manhood and womanhood, these two issues for a start with the primary being of course a solid Biblical understanding of the Gospel which would be a constant unchanging theme. I’m unsure as to how I might continue their education while re-teaching these principles to new members. Also I’m wondering how much time should be given to team building activities ect to try to create a unity between them for strong and enduring Christian fellowship. Any ideas?
My youth group was basically playtime.
My mother's youth group was a Bible study.
I could tell you which one I thought was a waste of my time.
I love the idea that you want to teach apologetics to your youth, and all the focuses you mentioned sound highly appropriate and wise. As someone who had apologetics lessons during high school, I can tell you that I appreciated it so much. I think this is a good way to teach youth, especially those already in the church who need to understand what 1 Peter 3:15 means. As to encouraging Christian fellowship, I know as a youngster I liked having time to have fun with my friends from church, but I have seen as I have grown older, fellowship blooms by encouraging prayer among the youth. Prayer with just one person, prayer in a group of three, prayer with just girls, prayer with just boys, prayer time where an older student is tasked with leading a younger group in prayer, etc. Scripture says to pray without ceasing. And when we come together to pray, we can share repentance, be vulnerable, and proclaim the Lord's praises. These three things are what made me most strongly connected to my friends in Christian fellowship. And it still does as an "adult"
Just my two cents worth and admittedly my opinion based on experience, but some ideas for you.
When I went to Florida I rejected three churches in a row partially based on the youth group. All they want to do is play football or shoot marshmallow guns or some such nonsense. It's absolutely absurd.
I truly believe that the learning process should be able to get the young youth to be able to get the basic learning about the church encouraging them to be catholicism as their true church..
Yes the parents are often ignored and the kids are “pastored” but at pick up the parents are barely spoken to at all.
Common theme in youth group- you’ll have a married youth minister and he’ll pick an assistant. And the person is usually a type A .. female from the youth group. Now is it me or is the something terribly wrong with this formulation.
Yesss!!! A heck of alot of Evangelical churches do this here in Cali. It's annoying and I'm 45 and it has nothing to do with me. Lol
My concern is this points pastors to gathering the "right type of people" so that they might minister to the poor, or the non-Christian young people in their locale.
How about Sunday schools for kids?
I left the last Christian fellowship I was involved with precisely because the “pastor” who was a former “youth pastor” ( not a Biblical concept in the slightest, BTW) refused to recognize that he was organizing and developing “his” “church” along the lines of a “Youth ministry”.
But it wasn’t really his fault. That’s what he had learned from his church. That was all he knew. You become a “pastor” and you start a church. So, not only was he engaged in a non-Biblical activity, he was going about it in an ineffective way. The best he will do is to treat his adult congregation as if they are members of an adult Youth Group.
While i am very thankful for Doug i think he refutes himself a few times in this video. By drawing on Ephesians 6 he points out that Paul addresses various groups within a congregation, much like would happen in a family integrated church sermon.
Then he also advocates that pastors also teach children not just parents. Which again also happens in a family integrated service. No one is saying kids shouldnt learn from anyone else.
Basically, his references strengthen his opposition and expose his own eisegesis on this matter which is heavily influenced by philosophy not Scripture
I always thought the problem with youth groups nowadays is that the lessons teached are irrelevant to issues of the world today. Its always fluff and never anything useful
Where does Paul tell young men to teach all the teenagers and women to teach women the scriptures? no he doesn’t if you think he does read the passages more carefully women are to teach women how to have a godly home and relationships not doctrine and theology and kids need to learn form men and women if they don’t wanna be delinquents
That’s really an argument from silence though. Where do you draw the line about what is verbally addressed in the NT and what is not? We obviously don’t meet in homes by and large anymore, the Lord’s Supper is no longer a shared meal as it was in the first century. I think the Holy Spirit allows for organized freedom provided that it’s within His guidelines
Are there any biblical passages that support segregating people based on age? Secular schools do it, but that doesnt make it biblical.
Doug, you just basically said that a pastor has authority over parents, their authority over their children, that is incorrect...
He commingled law and gospel.
Negative
No, he didn’t.
You commingled hypocrisy and being a messenger of satan.
The Law of the Lord is perfect, restoring the soul.
@@adamsmith4195 the Bible use the word law in several different senses.
The word law can be used in a general sense talking about the Bible or Epistemological truth in the Bible.
The law in the strictest sense is to be distinguished from the the gospel in it's pure and saving sense.
I largely disagree with Doug. The view that youths don't attend corporate services is not accurate.
When youths become adults, if they belong to a healthy church, they will have been encouraged to attend "whole of church" services in order to start the journey of belonging to a family that is much larger than the youth ministry.
Leave the kids alone!!!
Not his best answer. It should have been: no
Paul was an Apostle and had Apostolic authority ... there are no true Apostles or Apostolic Authority today, the only teacher is the Word of God ... so called "clergy" have no authority to pass judgment on their fellow man ... I don't recognize any clergy pretending to be someone extra special than his fellow man. Jesus and His Word is the only Preacher I recognize! I GO TO BIBLE ... NOT TO CHURCH ... the Bible is the Word of God ... Churches today are the "traditions of men!"
Peter, no offense, but your statement is unbiblical in so many ways. There is an office in the church that is an authority, it is bishop/elder/pastor (all three terms are the same in scripture). And no pastor thinks he's something "special," but he has been called to preach the Word in all circumstances (2 Timothy 4:2). And while the Word of God is for teaching and sanctification (John 17:17), Ephesians 4:11-16 clearly recognizes pastors and teachers as an office to teach Christians. 1 Timothy 3:2 says the Bishop is apt to teach. Titus 1:9 shows that even the Bishops are taught so they will be able, by sound doctrine, to exhort those that contradict sound doctrine. And many epistles begin by speaking to the saints in particular churches; the word church means the "called out ones," and we're not to neglect the assembly of each other (Hebrews 10:25).
I find it interesting that whenever someone complains about all churches in a generalized way and say they only go to the Bible and to Christ, they reveal two things about their complaint. First, that they've been either burned by a bad church or they've been reprimanded Biblically by a good church. Either one leaves a bad taste in your mouth, therefore now you get on a high horse thinking you're more "spiritual" than someone else by bashing all churches and being a lone ranger Christian. This is not in scripture. Second, you say you go to the Bible, but neglect the very verses that talk about church and church leadership because you want to pick and choose what fits your emotional-driven beliefs. I pray that you study the Word rightly (2 Timothy 2:15, Acts 17:11) before bashing every church (because there are thousands upon thousands all over that you've never been to) and thinking you don't need a shepherd to guide you in the truth of the Word. Self-study with the Holy Spirit is important, but the Holy Spirit also uses the God-given institution of the church and church leadership to teach/preach as well.
@@2timothy23 Dear Confused Pilgrim Eric Smith ... Thank you for your traditions of men opinion but the Bible says otherwise ...
Dear Pilgrim - God talks directly to believers today through “the anointing!”
(1 John 2: 27) says, “As for you, the anointing which you received from Him abides in you, and you have no need for anyone to teach you; but as His anointing teaches you about all things, and is true and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you abide in Him.”
NOTE - (see Acts 2: 38) to learn how one obtains the anointing!
Pilgrim - the Bible tells us that in the 1st Century - Apostles appointed elders/leaders with divine authority called “Apostolic Authority.” (Acts 14:23) says, “Paul and Barnabas appointed elders for them in each church and, with prayer and fasting, committed them to the Lord, in whom they had put their trust.”
Also, in the 1st Century, the Apostles appointed elders indirectly by delegated authority to “mini-apostles” like Paul did to Titus.
Paul says in (Titus 1:5) - “The reason I left you (Titus) in Crete was that you might put in order what was left unfinished and appoint elders in every town, as I directed you.”
Thus, an Apostle’s Apostolic authority was necessary for Scriptural elder/leader selection in the 1st Century but the Bible does not say How elders are to be selected after the passing of the Apostles and their Apostolic Authority!
Here are some unanswered questions about the selection of elder/leaders:
Pilgrim - Who nominates elders/leaders today and how are they placed on the ballot? Who then is allowed to vote for the nominees, is it just men, men and women or everyone including children? Also, must the winner have a majority, a plurality or must it be unanimous? Is there a set term for an elder/leader? If so, how long is that term? How can elders/leaders be removed? Once again (if it is by vote) must there be a majority, a plurality or must it be unanimous? Does anyone oversee the elder/leaders? If so, who evaluate elder/leaders and how is this done? Are there yearly or periodic report cards? What if an elder’s wife dies - must the elder step down? And, what if an elder refuse to step down, etc., etc.???
Pilgrim, if “God is Not the author of chaos or confusion but of peace in all the churches of the saints” (1Corinthians 14:33) … Then … Why all this chaos and confusion Today … What could be the answer?
Pilgrim - Before you learn the answer, you must first understand the problem!
The problem today is that there are now over 44,000 different Christian church denominations (i.e. each with their own “traditions of men” selecting elders and making leadership choices) BUT the fact that God’s Holy Spirit can only Scripturally dwell in God’s one true church - DICTATES that There can be NO Scriptural elders/leaders today in churches!
Pilgrim - The Fact is that even though the 1st Century (corporate) assembly (i.e. with elders as the vehicle to instruct/lead Believers to God’s Will) ended with the death of the last Apostle …All is not lost!
Paul says in (1Corinthians 13:10-12) - “but when the perfect comes, the partial will be done away. 11 When I was a child, I used to speak like a child, think like a child, reason like a child; when I became a man, I did away with childish things. 12 For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face; now I know in part, but then I will know fully just as I also have been fully known.”
Note - The promised “perfect” that Paul speaks of “to know God fully” as “God knows us fully” must be accessed on this side, since All Scripture says we only have our lifetime in which to come “to know God fully.” Upon death, our fate is sealed; all that we have thought, said and done while in the body is then judged against the Word of God.
Pilgrim - Here are the events that occurred at the end of the 1st Century that necessitated God’s giving of “the perfect:”
#l). All Apostles had died and so died “Apostolic Authority” (i.e. the Holy Spirit inspired Apostles’ instruction to the church), #2). All things Israel were destroyed including the Temple and tribal lineage records which thus officially ended the Old Testament Covenant, #3). The New Testament Covenant began fully when the Holy Spirit was given to the Gentiles, #4). The churches became Worldlier, so much so, that the Apostles had to write 29 epistles (i.e. letters of correction and instruction) to help the churches and #5). By Circa 70 A.D. the Bible Canon was complete; the Holy Spirit NOW spiritually anoints each Baptized Believer so they can understand God’s completed Word and Will in the Bible.
Pilgrim listen again to today’s Scripture wherein the Apostle John explains the importance of God’s Holy Spirit that indwells the Believer at adult full immersion Baptism so as to personally instruct him:
“As for you, the anointing which you received from Him abides in you, and you have no need for anyone to teach you; but as His anointing teaches you about all things, and is true and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you abide in Him.” (1 John 2: 27)
THEREFORE - Pilgrim - Get “the anointing” to know God fully while there is still time! “For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each of us may receive what is due us for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad.” (2 Corinthians 5:10)
SUMMATION - Pilgrim - Nowhere in the Bible does it sanction the selection of elders/leaders today to corporately instruct or lead members in understanding how to be saved. A personal relationship with Jesus is what saves us; we obtain that personal relationship at our Baptism’s “anointing” when we receive “the gift of the Holy Spirit” who assists us in Believing and Obeying with Love and Perseverance without “adding to or subtracting from The Word of God.”
Pilgrim - When you go to Bible …. You go to God’s church!
Respectfully submitted as my Scriptural understanding; I share with you what His Spirit has shared with my spirit. Pilgrim - Remember, always “test the spirits” (i.e. the traditions of men) against the Spirit and Word of God (1 John 4:1).
A watchman of His Word.
@@aonewatchman You wrote much that can be commented on, but understand that your presupposition is that church authority was given by Apostolic Authority, therefore today you are a skeptic on how someone becomes an elder/bishop. Based on the skepticism, you therefore come to the conclusion that it isn't necessary. This is a wrong presupposition that you yourself are contradicting, and I will explain that briefly in a moment.
First, the context of 1 John 2:27 isn't that we're not to have anyone teach you in the church. This would contradict other verses I cited, therefore you make God one of confusion by pitting verses against each other. The context of the 1 John verse is warning Christians not to believe the gnostics of that day that were teaching wrong doctrines and exalting themselves over sound teaching. In misinterpreting this verse, you violate the very verse you cited, 1 Corinthians 14:33. So now you also become part of the problem.
Second, you use the problems you see in the church and in how elders become elders as a way to say, "No church." Again, that is searching through scriptures to separate yourself from other believers and authority. Because now you become your own authority and who corrects you? And if you say the Word of God does, then how do you know your interpretation isn't wrong as well? You have no way of knowing but leaning on your own understanding (Proverbs 3:5) and believing you know more about scriptures than others. Again, your more "spiritual" and your understanding is "far greater than others." Can you admit to anyone that you're wrong?
Third, you say you need no teacher, but then use verses to "teach" me. Then by your own standard I should disregard everything you just wrote and go to the Bible alone for my direction, because you're just following traditions of men. You see how your own critique can be used against you? And because it can, I can disregard it and anything else you post because now you're "teaching doctrine," but based on your misunderstanding of 1 John 2:27, I can ignore it. So I pray you prayerfully go back and study your Bible and not neglect fellowship with others, but if you don't want to, based on your own way of thinking, I don't need to respond to you again because I'd just be following your advice and going to the Bible. Thanks for reading and goodbye.
@@2timothy23 Dear Confused Pilgrim ... For your understanding :
Dear Pilgrim - Those who go to Bible go to the true church!
Pilgrim - The Holy Spirit speaks to churches in the Bible:
In (Revelation Chapters 2 &3) Seven times the Holy Spirit says to the churches - “He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.”
Further, in (Acts 7:48) we read - “The Most High does NOT dwell in houses made by human hands” Pilgrim - The Bible says that the Lord’s Spirit that dwells within His Word also dwells within the Christian’s body!
(1 Corinthians 6:19) says - “Don't you realize that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit, who lives in you and was given to you by God?”
Pilgrim - How many times have you heard in a church assembly: “Welcome to the Lord’s house” or “It is good to be in the house of the Lord?” These “traditional believes of men” portray a false reality to both the saved and the unsaved. The belief that God’s Spirit in the New Testament lives in a church building instead of within the Saint is not Biblical! Further, most parishioner assume another “tradition of men” - that their meeting in a church building satisfies their religious obligation to God.
However, God’s Spirit clearly states in (Acts 7: 48) that “God does not dwell in houses made by human hands.” We know that God’s Spirit did habitat man-made structures in the Old Testament (for example - when God told Moses to build the tabernacle and the Ark of the Covenant) but these were only Old Testament “earthly representations” of a New Testament “spiritual reality” that was yet to come at God’s sending of His Holy Spirit.
In (John 4: 21, 23-26) Jesus tells the woman at the well: “Woman, believe Me, an hour is coming when neither in this mountain nor in Jerusalem will you worship the Father… An hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers. 24 “God is spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.” 25 The woman said to Him, “I know that Messiah is coming (He who is called Christ); when that One comes, He will declare all things to us.” 26 Jesus said to her, “I who speak to you am He.”
Pilgrim - Jesus speaks to the woman with God’s authority, He says to her, “I who speak to you am He.” Jesus further indicates to her that it is not WHERE you worship that counts, it is HOW you worship that counts!
Jesus explains HOW to worship in (verse 24). Jesus says there - "God is spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth!”
Pilgrim - God wants worship that is Biblically correct, that which in accordance to His Holy Spirit and His Holy Word!
(Romans 8:9) tells us that - “If anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him” and in (John 17:17) Jesus defines that “truth” as the “Word of God” - Jesus says there, "Sanctify them in the truth; Your word is truth!”
Further, the Bible says in (1Corinthians 3:10) - “Know ye not that ye are the temple of God and that he Spirit of god dwelleth in you?”
Pilgrim, when the Holy Spirit indwells the Believers body, it is our body that becomes the temple of God because of God’s Spirit uniting with our spirit within us allowing us to understand and carry out His Word!
Further, in (Romans 8:16) it says - “The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God!”
Thus, when we are in complete submission to the Will of God in the Bible, we become One with the Spirit of God who then dwells within us!
Pilgrim - Jesus wants us to listen to what His Spirit says to the churches:
(Revelation 3: 11-13) says - “‘I am coming quickly; hold fast what you have, so that no one will take your crown. 12‘He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he will not go out from it anymore; and I will write on him the name of My God, and the name of the city of My God, the new Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God, and My new name. 13‘He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.’
NOTE - Only those with the Holy Spirit of God are able to “hear” (Hebrew - “Shema” - (i.e. to understand with complete obedience to His Will). Pilgrim - His Will is His Spirit and Word in the Bible!
Further, (Revelation 21:3) says - “And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.”
This Scripture says that God will be “with men as their God” for eternity! The term “with” (Greek - meta) means to be joined as One. Pilgrim - What we see today is a small taste of what we will see at the renewal of all things. God’s Holy Spirit in us today is a pattern for what we will experience more fully in the New Jerusalem. God’s New Jerusalem of the future is a spiritual city of His people in covenant with Him, where He lives and dwells spiritually in them.
Pilgrim - God’s full church has not met yet. It will meet for the first time when Jesus returns at the renewal of all things to collects all the Scriptural saints so as to presents them to the Father as His church.
THEREFORE - God’s true church is made up of individuals who “Shema” (Hebrew - hear Him) i.e. those who are in full submission to both His Spirit and His Word in the Bible.
SUMMATION - The Holy Spirit speaks to churches in the Bible! The Spirit says in Scripture: “He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches” … “the Most High does NOT dwell in houses made by human hands” … “know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?” Pilgrim - It is His Spirit and His Word in the Bible that defines God’s Will for Christians. Please Note - God’s Will is NOT determined by the “traditions of men” in “houses that are made by human hands!”
Pilgrim - Those who go to Bible go to the true church!
Respectfully submitted as my Scriptural understanding; I share with you what has been shared with me. Pilgrim, “test all spirits” (i.e. the traditions of men) against the Spirit and Word of God in the Bible. (1John 4:1).
A watchman of His Word
@@2timothy23 Dear Eric ... Gnostic are not mentioned in the Bible .... and you won't answer again ... because you cannot negate the Word of God I quoted to you. Paul said the gifts and the church will end ... you know the two Scriptures of which I speak ... you just don't believe that it has happened as yet!
I start taking this guy with a pinch of salt as soon as I realised he's a creationist.
What?????? Can you elaborate????
Really? Of all the issues that's when you began taking him with salt?
@@deborahparrish2201 anybody who thinks the earth was created a few thousand years ago and evolution didn't happen cannot be taken seriously.
@@jackwaters4649 but that is one thing he is certainly wrong about, as deduced by science?
This is a hard topic for modern man to swallow but you have to realize there is a war going on for your mind and soul. The god of this world, hasatan, is using peer pressure and godless education institutions to pressure kids into unbiblical worldviews by threatening ostracization if they do modern blasphemy and speak against scientific consensus. We are called to trust God above everything else and to not be a part of this world. Recognize there is active deception going on, humble yourself before God and study diligently.
2 Corinthians 4:4
In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
Do you think the god of this world stops at blinding the eyes of people on the gospel or continues on every angle that affects belief?