EP26: Why Black Men Don't Go To Church
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- Опубликовано: 14 окт 2024
- How often have you felt you had to pay a membership fee to attend a certain church?
After a service, do you ever feel like you just went through a shakedown?
Or maybe you went to a church for a little while and learned that the pastor was preaching one thing on Sunday and doing the opposite behind the scenes.
If either of these experiences describes yours then, trust us, you are not alone. For the start of season two of the Today For Tomorrow podcast, we took it to the barbershop to hear the truth about Why Black Men Don't go to church.
If you'd like to learn more about our MEN 2.0 Men's meeting, please click the following link: bit.ly/tfttomen20
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As a believer and a man who goes to church I believe that the lack of men in the church is due to the dishonest message that many pastors are preaching. Preaching about prosperity and manifestation of material things as well pandering to the women due to the fact that they're the majority of the members and givers. Men can see through that easily. Us men also respond to the absolute truth more than how the word makes us feel
Amen. I concur.
Good Stuff Bro
First of all, Black men are turning away from religion because of "Knowledge", not GOD or the Creator. When you realized that you've been taught to worship from a "slave's Bible (purposely rewritten to keep us in this "suffering snd poverty" state of mind) and that you're worshiping a Jewish tribal God of Thunder (Yahweh) and that God is "White or Caucasian"
Very true mines is the pandering to the women and the false doctrines.
That part!
Good conversation. I'm a black man and I didn't go to church because I wanted to do what I wanted. I know what GOD wants, but I know what I want. I didn't want to truly submit to GOD because I wanted lust. I used the issues going on in the church as an excuse not to submit to the righteousness that GOD required of me. Atthe end of the day, pimp pastors, hypocritical leadership or not, I have to submit to God's righteousness and learn to love HIM more than my self centered desires.
Let's See! Well Church And Pastor do what the Government Says..don't teach the truth..lie to everyone...They Do!
Teach Nothing! They Didn't!
Steal $ the do!
Cheating..Yup!
Church is full of Evil people in it...Real recognize Real
Black Pastor Are only for self and sleep with everyone's
wife!
Goal Make sure Others don't pass Him!
No Training in the community. Nothing... Basically a Waist of time!
Teach Financial News
Real Estate
Investment
Nope. Only for the Pastor..He won't teach Nothing to help his people...A Fake. All of them
I love this. A man who can admit the truth. God bless you! It's hard for anyone to do admit to this.
Thank you for sharing your truth.
Listen to yourself THAT SOUNDS GAY
I highly respect you for your transparency, Sir. I eventually began to know the difference between being religious - which was all I saw as I was growing up - and having a relationship with the Lord. It's through that relationship that I became convicted and molded into making changes in my character and with relationships with people. A lifelong pursuit.
I pray God's BEST for you and yours.
I am a pastor for 20 years and I love this conversation. These men are sharing their hearts. We need to change! These men can help the church fulfill its purpose and heal and empower ourselves, families, and communities. Bless ya'll
Do you know... That the physical body is the temple of the living God?
Divine Mercy or intervention or else black America has no hope
Hebrews 10:25....do not forsake the gathering of believers
I agree. God Bless you man of God for saying that. Because you spoke the truth. Shalom unto you and to your beautiful wife and families.
Mr. Pastor read the book of Proverbs 11:21. You pastors are teaching a gospel that our forefathers don't know. Which is Christianity
The church used to a space where men could congregate, discuss the community needs,conduct business, and support each other. The deacon board was led by professional men who possessed skills that translated outside of their work. They labored for their community and did so without much fanfare. My most significant mentors came from the church. The deacons ran the church. Pastors came and went. Those men demanded discipline, stewardship, integrity, and honesty. It was safe for men to do men things.
So unholy and unlike the scriptures for deacons to run the church and not a pastor
@@mikesolns1364 the pastor led. He delegated to his deacons who in turn worked on his behalf. When I said run I didn’t imply they made decisions outside the pastor. But, the pastor never went around his councils.
The Most High isn’t dealing with the plantation Christianity that’s been embedded into our people’s minds for generations. And a lot of our people are waking up to our true biblical identity (Israelites) within these last days. It’s all prophetic..
Acts 17:24 “24 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, DWELLETH NOT IN TEMPLES made with hands;”
Church is where you go to give God His time, not discuss social issues. Church is for worshipping God.
@@wonderfullymade425churches in Bible didn't discuss social issues?? You never read Corinthians ? Galatians ?? Ephesians??
Being a man raised in church I’ve seen the change in how pastors treat their churches. Went from it being about truth to it being about pandering to the majority of your church and money. Everything now is about money! If it’s one thing you’ll notice is that people only react to what they want to hear, not what they’re supposed to be learning and it’s backfiring bad. Youth aren’t going, men aren’t going, and it’s all because it’s insanely rare to find a church that will teach the truth!!!! 🤦🏾♂️ Manifest this and attract this…if I wanted a tarot card reading or spirit reading I know where to go for that devil! Preach the truth everyone wants to know
I agree and disagree. Satan didn’t create these things but he has carbon copies. People want to see results in their lives and not theology.
Learn the scriptures on your own at home, you will be surprised at how much you will grow. Sad to say, but most churches today are about making money and it's through deception because nowhere is the church commanded to pay tithes. In fact, biblical tithes were something you eat or drink, it was a provision for the poor and the needy, which also included the Levites...it had nothing to do with the church. A tithe is 10% of something the children of Israel gained from the 'Promised Land', usually crops, but it could be the firstborn of their flocks or herds or 10% of the wine they made from grapes. It had nothing to do with other countries and what folks gained there.
A lot of what preachers are teaching is actually against what the apostles taught...think about this, most churches don't even keep the Ten Commandments and many churches admit this! Read Matthew 19:16-17, Revelation 14:12, Revelation 12:17.
I've been rejected by pastor for a possible relationship. He was like a surrogate husband to single women. Although he didn't sleep with women, his words were controlling until the point that there would be less men or married men in the congregation. I respect every man of God, but church abuse or hurt needs to be checked into therapy and prayer with God
@@christianhenry4173These so called Holy women will ignore that point these Pastor's have pimp mind control over too many of these women
First and foremost, I want to thank all of the brothers on the platform for sharing your thoughts and opinions on a topic that is very important for now and the future especially for black men. I would like to add to your discussion that we can come up with all types of reasons why men don't attend church, but I feel that the male needs to take his rightful place in his home first and then the church, he needs to be in a position to set the example for others to follow, the church is supposed to make disciples out of men, not preaching how to get rich, but to effectively demonstrate the power of God's word and how it can be used in one's life
I agree, also bringing out the bible talking about us and why we are going through our dilemma and how the scriptures parallel our life
@byronknox - FYI:
In the New Testament there are:
215 scriptures
about FAITH...
218 scriptures
about SALVATION...AND...
2084 scriptures about what???
MONEY!!!😮🤑😇
Selah.🤑
I’m order for man to rightfully lead home he MUST go to God first, there is no “do this then go to God” God is priority not an afterthought. Nothing should come before him.
@Gzilla513He heard you before you put that out. Just so you know, he is outside of time. And he knows the beginning and the end.
This is interesting but I would say many black men dont take care of home because God is not first in their lives. When a man trully servers God he 'WILL" serve his wife and family. How might a man understand his rightfull place in the home and in the world with out the creators input as to why he was created?
Don’t let other men’s sins stop you from serving God. Every man has to give an account for himself.
I don't think a lot of people who watched the video truly understood what we were trying to convey. We all love the Lord Jesus Christ and are steadily trying to improve our walk in the faith. We were speaking about the issues of what we know to be true as to why black men don't attend church. We never said that WE don't attend or seek the kingdom of God. As I read these comments I'm coming to understand that a lot of people are not hearing or receiving the message correctly. No excuses are being made. We're stating facts that actually ascend beyond race and are in fact in many churches.
You don’t need church to “serve god”
@@darksportstv9555💯
@@darksportstv9555I DARE you to say that to God on judgment day.
You dont need to go to church to worship Jesus christ and accept him as your savior, the point is that churches proselytize a perversion of God's word.
To My Black Brothers Thank you for sharing your heart It is well appreciated I too have experienced this on a big scale I was a member of a church for a long period of time. And unfortunately the pastor was worshipped and all types of things were going on (arrogant personalities sinful lifestyles bad leadership) It was a horrible experience even though in the beginning it was great Over the years it changed for the worst when it went to a Mega church . The focus must be on Christ not Pastor. We must still seek Christ and get in the Word of God apart from the pastor/church. The church are the people not the building. I eventually left that church and for two years I still prayed and followed Christ even though I was not in particular church. Jesus must be the only one that I serve and worship not any pastor. Two years later God let me know that I must follow him and I needed to be apart of the body of Christ I was hesitated at first and I prayed for a place of worship. The Lord answered my prayers. I am at a place of worship that truly teaches the Word of God and shows the world what God looks like. I am glad that the Lord lead me where I am
Excellent Bro
I’m happy that you waited on the Holy Spirit to lead. I did the same thing.
We badly need real brothers to work for the Kingdom.
Amen!
First off, the pastors are human. They made and make mistakes like everyone else. You worship God, not man. When a scripture is quoted, the entire verse can't be covered in the sermon. That's why pastors say go back and reread the text. Yes some pastors cherry pick texts. If if YOU READ THE WORD, then you will know the true facts for yourself. I'm delighted that you found a base faith church that teaches the word, not the pastor's word.
As a pastor, I walk a fine line. If I am too transparent, the people will say, "I knew he was a hypocrite", but If I don't show transparency, people will think, "Man, this guys is perfect and I can't relate to him." I guess the balance is that I share my flaws with specific people in the congregation because everyone can't handle your flaws. I have come to come learn that people are in process so I don''t allow people an opportunity to grow. We are all on a journey. I also say this, we are all in the same boat, God just happened to call me, an imperfect person, to serve a perfect God.
You clearly are a wolf in sheep clothing
I am not a pastor, but I have served in ministry. My humble advice to you is to try to meet people where they are. As leaders, we have to relate to everyone differently. Just as Jesus was all things to all people, Christian leaders must know how to diversify their communication style and interactions with the people they serve. This is only accomplished through discipleship and relationship building. As these bonds develop, you will learn which members you can kind of let your guard down a bit and be more transparent with, and which members with whom you must be image-conscious and tread carefully. One of the biggest mistakes that Pastor's make is using a blanket approach. Being "too real" or being "too pious." Both can be turn offs, especially when trying to bridge generation gaps. I agree with you that it is a delicate art and an unenviable spot to be in at times, but I do think it is feasible. It just takes time investment to build relationships, patience, and a high degree of emotional intelligence
I agree with this in so many life areas including church such as; how much you share on social media, how much you expose your personal life to the world/congregation/friends/family. People are going to judge regardless and we must rely on God when and where to share. Overall we must be mindful and not through our pearls to just anybody no matter what. I commend you Sir for keeping on keeping on and getting Gods guidance.
Just preach the word of God in its purest form. We are leading people to Christ alone, who is perfect. People need to follow Christ and His word, not the pastor, because no human is right and perfect all the time.
In my humble opinion, as a church goer, I think sharing that you are flawed when you preach/ teach a message is enough. I don't think it's necessary to go into specifics about how but just that you simply are. For example, if you're preaching about men not loving their wives like the Bible says, saying that this is something you still go to the cross for and that WE all must work through is enough.
This may not be popular but never less it’s true. We go to bad restaurants, but it doesn’t stop us from trying new ones. We see bad movies but still go back to see the new release. Yes there are bad churches that manipulate the masses, it doesn’t relieve us from the responsibility to find the right one, and that’s what the Bible says (Hebrews 10:25). There ARE good churches that pour out in the community, serve the congregation through discipleship and are not money hungry.
We are not designed to be or called to be lone wolf Christians.
Your comment was very reasonable, so I knew you would not get many likes from BM. ALL THEY DO IS MAKE EXCUSES. There are some good churches. Why not go to those churches? Excuses. Excuses. That’s all you gone get from BM.
Praising God together is one of the best things you can do as a couple. I wouldn’t want a man that’s not capable of covering me, leading & teaching me and being my priest.
Too many have issues being that, I have noticed that as a minister.
There are so many entrepreneurs pastors today that lead people different paths as a 59 year old man still remembers the old days of churches than nowadays because my heart bleeds today .
Great conversation. All the above reasons why I don't attend church today. But I would sign up for the barber shop outside the church.
That’s your excuse it’s a very weak one , are all black people criminals base on race ? Are all church’s no good base on a few corrupt leaders? Just tell the Truth you don’t respect or honor God , because you
Probably feel like you are your on god little man . that’s why it’s so easy for you to esteem the barber shop as more important than the church.
Hebrews 10:25 KJV
Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is ; but exhorting one another : and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
This is why men are suffering, he gave us command, find a true church and grow under the word, you can’t be a leader without following the Godhead.
I totally understand ur meaning and concern but Jesus is compelling us to come I wanted to quit ministry youth ministry n education I went right to my pastor n told him how I felt n why n my Bishop told me “I didn’t call you, God called you” to teach n educate His children I couldn’t say nothing I felt like crying cuz I know God called me n He wasn’t gonna let me get away with my woe is me tears God will deal with jus like you suck it up I have need of you as he told the disciples to saddles the ass before entering into Jerusalem He said ‘I have need of it’ n thts how God convicted me I’ve been teaching His word for 25 years n God has blessed my life in being obedient we gotta be obedient to God, not man, but God TGBTG
You should attend Church because the Word of God tells us to not forsake ourselves from assembling as some have done. People are going to do wrong when they are tempted and when they are not living right all they know how. The devil wants to make the Church look bad and so he tends to get people to mess up even in Church, but we need to make sure we get right with the Lord and stay on track with Jesus not with people.
Folk will disappoint us because they are not perfect only Jesus is. He is our perfect example to follow. I say this, put your trust in God and ask him to help you to look at yourself as you move forward in him. Never mine what others are doing just serve God and love him with all your heart and 🙏 for others.
We cannot focus on what the Pastor or others are doing wrong we need to look at what are we as individuals are doing and to be good examples as men and women of God in Christ Jesus. Great conversation!
@@Ash2beautyshut up
As an agnostic brother I applaud you on this panel for this open and constructive discussion. Thanks for sharing your insights.
I agree. I walked away from the cult years ago, but I respect when men can have an honest discussion on religion.
Agreed. I can respect the beliefs of others but much of what’s being discussed are themes similar to what led to my deconstruction and freedom from religion. I do miss the fellowship though and the good feelings that I received from that community when things were going well
It's very typical for men to be "agnostic"...it's also why, women shouldn't lead in churches
Unless it's over women, or children under 13
Need to be more of these shows like this in our neighborhoods at all times.
Yes, indeed.
Nobody tells the truth anymore, and there is no accountability on both sides, and this is what the problem is in our culture and society as a whole.There is too much dishonesty and sugar-coating that goes on in our community. Black men refuse to even be honest about this one thing which is they don't want to listen to another man preach or direct them as to how to live. The church has its flaws, but to continue to make the excuse and argument that people are dishonest in the church, Many people are living dishonesty everywhere in life. Black men don't usually go to church unless they are looking for a wife that can submit to them, other than that they have no interest. They also have no intention of living right or righteous, and they don't want to feel accountable for all the abuse and disrespect of the black women in their lives. I wish the mind games and the feel good replies and responses would stop.
@@serene2414Notice how u talk about accountability and you said nothing about ur own kind😂😂
Yh
Quiet
The one elephant in the room that was left out, is when you have alphabet people in leadership roles in the church. Maybe RUclips didn't allow such conversations. Thus the problem with the church 🤔
This was one of my problems 😂
@@joshuacooperseoif you are a true christian and are really looking for a church home, please note, The majority of churches in America and other countries as well disproportionately condemns the LGBT community . If LGBT in a leadership role was a problem for you or Kingart626 there are plenty of chu rches to chose from that not only severly condemn LGBT, but also donot allow women in leadership roles. LGBT in leadership is the least of the problem in churches.
You were afraid of them or something?@@joshuacooperseo
@@theoccasionalvideotell me you’re an alphabet without telling me you’re an alphabet
The way this world is today I am running straight to Lord GOD ALMIGHTY. He has been my ROCK through everything I have been through. Allot of the things you mention do happen in the church. That is between that person and GOD.
I've never even heard of this RUclips channel before today. Three minutes into this video, I hit subscribe. These are the conversations that need to be happening in our community. I'm glad I found this, but I'm much more glad that it even exists.
I’m a blk woman and I’m so glad my blk husband the leader of our family loves God and loves attending church Sunday and Thurs night Bible studies, he does weekly devotions with us and makes sure me and our 4 children are growing in Christ. I love and appreciate him for caring about our spiritual well being and being a great provider for our family. God first, my husband is a great source of blessing in my life.
Amen🙏🏾
Sounds like he’s not the head of the house at all. Just a figure head. Women use religion as a shield for a rebellious spirit and defer to God so they don’t have to follow their man’s guidance.
@gregorythomas4470 what devil's doctrine are you speaking. The word of God establishes the husband as the head of the home. If you do not want anything to do with God then say that. But do not try to separate that the husband is the leader of his home from the teachings of the church.
@@gregorythomas4470this is why men are loaded w/ spirits and frustrated w/ the women today, y’all are out of order, too proud to submit to God but want woman to submit. You will never win against God.
That Bible study class is so important. The peace you get out of Bible study class...peace that surpasses all understanding..... thanks Lord for your Bible study class 🙂
I love this talk
We need more of this ESPECIALLY the way men are being attacked
This is an opportunity to rectify a major problem in our communities! A lot of damage has been done by terrible men who were supposed to Shepherd the flock! These behaviors keep God's people out of his presence and open to the enemy who works in the physical. Kingdom Men are rising! Shout out to all the brother's for being open and sharing everything 💯❤
Good conversation. It's something that needs more attention and more conversations like these. You can't correct anything until you identify problems. Keep up the good work. Bless. 🙏
When I was growing up, my parents and my family went to sunday school and church every Sunday. We didnt have all the electronic distractions available and for a long time we didnt even have a color TV. I think the church should have mens ministry and sponsor things like simply watching a football game or even exercise together. There is a lot of talent in the church so lets use it. God bless.
Amen Sir
There are such churches. My church in Houston has superbowl football parties at the church following morning services every year. Food/soft drinks are provided. But still strong. 💪
Greetings, this was a great conversation!!! Praying men return to being back in church and being the spiritual leaders in the home. God bless and love yall. Ephesians 5:23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
Thank you drkman1976! You just dropped the mic, you dont need my cheer, however I had to share it anyway, Thank you friend. My husband is lord! I didnt even know that I didnt know friend, working on my second divorce, but I got it now!
Great conversation! I stopped going years ago, I was burned twice by the church, once monetarily, and again when the pastor was having an affair with someone I knew.. What sealed it was when I realized that no one walking this earth is no closer to God than I am. I don’t think Pastors should endorse politicians, because judges get endorsed by pastors not knowing those very same judges will have no problem sending the community to prison… There’s an element in that community I choose not to be a part of..
All facts my brutha. I don’t subscribe to ANY organized religion because it’s mind control and it’s used to keep you subservient. I can have a close spiritual connection to the creator of ALL things without some money grabbing preacher telling me how to do it. Or that God told HIM something. Spare me with that.
Well said!!
All churches are not like this If you really desire to know GOD keep searching.❤
Thanks Lord for your peace
Thanks Lord for your salvation
Thanks Lord for your Bible study class 🙂
@@fee9043 God is within.. I have no need to search outside of self. ❤️
I am a black man that grew up and still goes to church; the truth is I can't function to long without it. Just putting it out there we out here.
That awesome. What does going to church do for you?
Excellent Discussion! Very intelligent thoughts and concerns! I as a woman, certainly have thought of each of the points brought up in this group. I appreciate the validation now that I know they see what I see. I don't attend church for the similar reasons that the men have identified. I am eager to hear more similar conversations and it would be good to get some more pastors in the room so that the pastors hear what a lot of intelligent black men have to say about why they are not in the church. We all need help to be better people, and if the Church (and families at home) don't support that in a "responsible and mature" way, we are not going to get very far. Keep the discussions coming!!
Great conversation. I'm glad to hear the different perspectives. This helps me as a pastor and a black man.
No one in the Bible called himself Pastor.
@@1Whipperin You could say the same for ushers, choir members, sunday school teachers. What's your point?
I'm glad yall had the convo. Definitely needed and needs to continue.
This was a great conversation! Thank you for sharing with the sisters. we needed to hear your side of the story.
This is my first episode watching y'all! I appreciate this gem as a young black man in this world we need more information like this. I'm sharing this with my younger brother. Just wanna tell yall thanks and keep going cuz we need it.
So refreshing to see our Black men have meaningful, and direct conversation and inter reactions with one another, without using profanity, or throwing shade…everything was done decently and in order! Praise the LORD.
Wow, Just wow, I finally a podcast about the real issues we as men / black men struggle with. I’m just amazed, I had to watch this, then I had watch it with my friends. This is just amazing topic.
We appreciate you for listening.
After watching this whole video, I come to two things. One: Excuses. I understand what each brother stated but at the same time, every church is not after your money nor are every church tore up from the floor up. There are good churches that are leading people to Christ each and everyday. We got to sometimes keep our focus on Jesus more that we put on the Pastor or Bishop. Two: Choice. The bible says as for me and my house: We will serve the Lord. Having a committed relationship with Christ is not easy. To live a way that's not pleasing to Man, but it gives glory to God. We are in the last days and the Word of God says there will be a great falling away. Do not allow the devil to overtake you to miss Heaven. Whether you believe it or not: There is a Heaven and a Hell. God bless you.
You stated this very well. My sentiments exactly.
@Zackman, “where 2 or more are gathered, there I am also.” Church isn’t a building, it’s you and I. You can serve God with other believers in a park or someone’s home. It’s too much foolishness in the pulpit without accountability. I love the Lord, read my Bible, and meet twice a week in a prayer group. Being under the auspices of a false teacher can lead one down the wrong path.
Agreed your relationship with God is just that, YOURS. We have to stay focused on Him and not the pastor or some social leader. There are still some bible teaching pastors out there, pray and asked God to lead you to one.
A medical doctor in the hospital, a nurse , a teacher in school, a great farmer or farmer, serve the lord better many pastors who scream the name of Jesus all the time. Serving is in action, not sitting in a building and say prosperity is coming through tithe
Always some SIMP
Since 1980, the black Baptist Church has collected $420 billion from the community it resides in.
Where has the money gone? 🙄
Good question and the wealth of black people hasn’t increased one iota.
The black spending dollar is over 2 trillion dollars a year…look it up
3.3 to 3.7 trillion dollars
If you understand your role as a pastor you will not allow yourself to be elevated. You are a servant leader. Pharisees and Scribes mindset is still alive and well.
If you are not involved then you have no room to speak due to your lack of involvement
Good conversation. These same types of problems keep a variety of men from Church.
It's easy to find excuses for things we don't want to do. Yes, I am aware of the hypocrisy within the church. I grew up in the church. I have seen so many things that have gone on from the crookedness, receiving, adultery, fornication, the violence that has taken place in the church, I have seen it all. And as a man it has not stopped me from still coming to church. The reason why I still come is because everything I see continues to draw me closer to God. You see there's another side we don't talk about. If you have a desire for something, you will never ever allow anything to keep you from it. If there is a job or position something that you have a desire for, you will go after it with reckless abandoned and let nothing get in your way. If you allow circumstances within a church to keep you from coming to church, all your problem is not from the church. It lies in your desire for Jesus Christ. If you have a desire for him, you will not allow what you see to stop you from coming. The Bible even says I'll let nothing separate me from the love of the Lord. Can you say that in spite of what you see ? Will you serve the Lord? Will you stand for you but will you make excuses?
If everyone was to axtually read the Holy Word and sxriotures for themselves. Then would then find that they are actually sinning through idolatry.
I suggest, that befor e anyone reads our history from the book of life. Pray to have wisdom for understanding and patience to endure the prcepts to keep each verse in context of it's meaning.
Allow the Holy Spirit to guide you and not the selfish man of flesh. Flesh will fail you in order to benifit themselves everytime.
Shalawam, BarakAtha
Exactly I feel in the West people don't need God we are to comfortable in our lifestyle where it's in China and some Islamic countries where the Christian faith is heavy oppressed those Christians still find a way to get together and worship God
He must have started reading the bible from the middle...
Excellent
Going to church and donating to the pastor's trick off fund doesn't make you a better christian or any closer to Christ or a better servant than someone who doesn't. Just stop. People like you are why people in general, not just black men don't go to church like they used to. You are the worst.
good talk and convo fellas a lot of obvious truths ppl don't talk about openly enough. black church needs reform for real for real
Shalom men of God and many blessings to you all and to your beautiful wives and families (personal/ministries).
I have much respect for this communion that was shared between you all. This blessed my soul. I appreciate the transparency and the truth that came forth from every man of valour who was a part of this much needed discussion. I appreciate this table. God Bless you all and Shalom
We disconnect ourselves from the church the same way we disconnect ourselves from our community. Instead of working to fix the problems we walk away and choose not to deal with it.. It is a lazy weakness that we have developed as men😢😢😢
You think men are interested in wasting their energy on things that do not benefit them in the long run?
How do you rebuild a community when degenerate rappers, thugs, strippers, internet heauxs, single mothers, alphabet mafia, and crooked preachers are respected and celebrated more than the men and women who are doing the right things? You can't save a community when that same community is actively working against you.
@MB-iv4mq it's a good thing the real ALPHA and OMEGA is Very responsible and looks after ALL His sheep whether they are problematic or not. He deals with problems instead of running away from them.
Not so. It is very difficult to express yourself to a pastor, when that pastor thinks he is god. You have to understand, many people, me included, love going to church, but there are some pastors who will not listen, answer your question, or hold themselves accountable for being wrong in their teachings. It’s better to do what the word say. “Study the word to show yourself approved.”
I don't think a lot of people who watched the video truly understood what we were trying to convey. We all love the Lord Jesus Christ and are steadily trying to improve our walk in the faith. We were speaking about the issues of what we know to be true as to why black men don't attend church. We never said that WE don't attend or seek the kingdom of God. As I read these comments I'm coming to understand that a lot of people are not hearing or receiving the message correctly. No excuses are being made. We're stating facts that actually ascend beyond race and are in fact in many churches.
Praying 🙏🏾 men like yourselves can help keep a good balance and the Pastor in check! ❤ love you gentlemen for speaking your experience and truth !!
I love it. I am going to take this and play it at my church for men meeting
This is a BEAUTIFUL conversation. Everyone of you are very intelligent to listen to every point of view and consider every perspective mentioned.
❤❤❤
Great conversation! So much to say in response! LOL.. GOD bless you brutha's for your transparency! So needed!
So I wonder how many men are praying to God for a church home?. It is important, and I have been to some churches that would NOT go back too. However, I ask God to lead me with a humble heart, and he did just that, so there is no excuse. ❤
Mor are praying for that than you might imagine! :)
What is a "Church home"?
Thanks for sharing this. Good to hear the barbershop truth.
I’m a pastor as well and I had and have some of the same issues with church as most black men. Black men have been attack throughout society so much that when they attend church and get their toes stepped on, they wanna run, fight, rebel and whine. No one in church started out in church. Everyone started out AT church. Some grew up AT church and are still AT church. When you’re in church a lot of these issues fade away because you grow. Your discernment grows, your love grows, your faith grows, your patience grows and so on. As each aspect of your character grows you begin to see things differently and more clearly. Not every pastor is placed by God, some are merely allowed for whatever reason. The same goes for the rest of the leaders and some members. It takes money to run a church, for upkeep and expansion. Statistically all of the finances of the church is provided by 10% of the churches congregation. So there will always be a need and they will always have to put focus on it. I always tell my folks that we need your prayers, we need your time, we need your presence, we need your creativity, we need a lot. Your money is only a portion of what we need and whatever you can give will be used in service of our Father. God tells you what to give in His word read it for yourself. You have to make sure you’re right in the eyes of God. When you stand in front of the throne God’s not gonna ask you about me. Now…I have a job, my pastor owns a business and we don’t take any money from the church. Maybe when you’re dependent on that money it can be different. But we stress tithing. If you spend time in prayer for the church you giving a portion of your heart and that a tithe. If you show up to help give clothes or food, then you’re giving a portion of your time out of your day and that’s a tithe. Imma leave it there.
Sorry for the novel!
What a awesome conversation gentlemen. I love it!
I’m OG ‼️ I recall growing up as a child in church and watching our flamboyant pastor leave his wife and three children, leave town with an eighteen year old young lady and take her back east, remarry creating a new family and pastoring a new church. Doing his tenure as pastor in the pervious town the members of his church worshiped the pastor as if he was a little jesus serving a little wooden god. This pastor was so flamboyant an slick that most women and men would give there last dollar in church to this pastor. The women were so gullible to compete with each other to get in bed with this pastor. Our town was so small back then and everyone in the community new our church was only playing church in the eye site of God .
If I was about money, I could write a book about this church and the members who participated in playing church and not serving God all mighty.
Shalom ❤
The church fell a long time ago. It is no longer a place for truth and grace. It is simply a social gathering hub. The word is contained in the Bible. We can worship anywhere.
Having said that, I go to church every Sunday and participate in Bible Study for exactly the reasons I mentioned. Social gathering.
If all I wanted was truth and grace, I would not bother leaving my house. The Bible already has that.
You don't think fellowship is a defining mark of the church ? Acts 2:42
@@faithhouse6111 It used to be, when the church advocated for men and women to live in the Godly way. No longer. How can their be fellowship among those who do not heed God?
The church today is a perversion of what it is supposed to be. The pastors pander to women, and exists just to make people feel better about their inequity. Not to lead them to the righteous path.
Should we have fellowship in inequity?
Our people no longer follow Christ. They fellow their own hearts and desires. They is no fellowship in that.
I go to church not for fellowship. I go because, ideally, if the church were righteous, you would find comfort in it. I go so I can say I go. Also, for the free food at the end. Honestly, if my church didn’t cook afterwards I probably would not go. I would just read the Bible.
When I am married and have children I will take my family to church, but it won’t be a black church. It will be a community church where my wife and kids can socialize. (My girlfriend is Filipino, from a small village in the Philippines. The entire village goes to two churches)
No Christian church I have been to is living the Godly way. They don’t even teach their women’s to cover their heads in worship and in prayer as commanded in 1 Corinthians 11.
The church is no longer what it used to be. Especially not in he black community. We are lost. Instead of staying in a fallen church, I would rather stay home and teach my family from the Bible directly. I may one day do that if I decide that my Filipino church teaches the wrong message.
Fellowship is apart on the church but the church is meant to be so much more. It not meant ti be just a social gathering.
It is all about the intention of the person going. If someone is going just to meet other people and hang out,.then that is all they will get from that experience.
The church is meant to be a place for spirtual support in a world against Christianity, and to receive the support they need to live their lives as a true follower of Christ.
The Church is meant to be a place where Christians are supposed to go for them to go to be held accountable for walking with God and staying away from sin and people who continually like to live in sin.
The Church is not a social hang out spot. It is designed to be a place or rest, renewal and accountability.
@@queenadventures4258 I agree 100%.
Which is why I and other black men have left the church. The church is no longer a place for the followers of Christ to gather, worship, and hold each other accountable to the ways of God. It is a social gathering hub for people to support each other emotionally. They praise, raise their hands, donate, sing songs, and eat the sacrament, but they do not live the godly way. So it is all a farce. A shadow of what the church used to be.
Christ talked about this directly in the Bible, as you probably know. All the faith in the world means nothing if you don’t follow the godly way.
The world is fallen, and the church reflects that.
If I go to a church and the women are not covering their heads, I know immediately that church is not living the godly way nor teaching the godly way.
Really, the only church I see that are living the godly way are Amish, Jewish, Muslim, and Orthodox.
I am not one of them because I believe Christ is the way, not Muhammad. And I don’t speak the languages of the Orthodox churches.
Christ God teaches many basic tenants that Muslims and Orthodox practice. Like head coverings for women. But I am not going to covert just because the vast majority of Christians don’t follow God.
Christ is the way, the only way. True spiritual learning will be taught in my home. Through lessons and Bible study. The church will be used as a utility for my family to socialize and practice worship and service. But it isn’t the place for true grace. “Practice”is all the Christian church is good for these days.
That and the sacrament.
It is unfortunate what the church has become, but we as black men and leaders of our household must endure and adapt. For a lot of us that means abandoning the church to find our own way in Christ.
@queenadventures4258 Thank you, sister. We are the church
The Pastor is just a vessel, you don’t need a Pastor to find God but a good pastor will be vessel and always directing his sheep to God
The key is to find a very good Pastor to keep one in line with the proper leadership, knowledge and teachings of The Holy Scriptures to better help in the process of finding the one and only True Holy God
If your Pastor has gainful employment for his own personal income outside of leading a church and isn’t begging the congregation and the Church for money, then that is a good start. If he is also preaching the proper way of Baptism In The Name of Jesus, Faith, Prayer and Salvation, then boom 💥, that’s great!!!!
There's no finding the true God of Abraham without a true pastor of God
Mathew 9:36
36 But when he saw the multitudes, he was moved with compassion on them, because they fainted, and were scattered abroad, as sheep having no shepherd.
Do not ready for that and many have already created their own salvific thoughts and his behaviors outside of scripture. And because they want to believe a lie the Lord will give them a reprobate mind and help them to believe that lie.
There’s going to be no getting through to some people and as Christians we have to except that.
@@mikesolns1364 Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling...
Yet forsake not the assembly....
These are both also scriptures so Seek Ye First The Kingdom Of God!!!!
As a leader I thank you for this talk. Because I’m developing a show but haven’t been able to move forward because I wanna hear more from godly black men thank you brothers
I need to do one about why do men go to church, and talk about the blessing of gathering among each other and building Godly men.
Great conversation bros!!!!
Black men don’t go to church because we are logical thinkers and are not swayed by emotions. What is a man without pride? A humble sheep that is easily lead
This is a great dialog among men regarding the church! 💯
On judgment day I want to be able to stand before God not with my head hung low because I was disobedient but, I want to be able to say , Lord they was tripping at the church! but, I set my pride and my own opinions out of the way and I did what you said.
Love for Jesus produces obedience..
@polishedbrother, no where in the Bible does it say you have to “go to church.” The Bible does say believers are to assemble together. Saints can gather at someone’s home or a park. The building is not the church, but we are. You can stand before God in obedience if you fed the poor, took care of the needy, repented, prayed, took care of your family, worship God, loved your neighbor. Remember, for those who go to the church building are no more saved just because they did so. The word says, just because you said lord lord have I not prophesied in your name? Depart from me, ye that work iniquity. Mathew 7:20-23.
@@helenahall4893
You can’t find “ go to church “ that’s because GOD inspired THE HOLY SPIRIT who is apart of the Trinity) who inspired men to write the Bible thoughts are not YOUR thoughts and HIS ways are not YOUR ways. (KJV)
Jesus inspired Moses to write: Exodus 25:8-9
And let them make ME a sanctuary; ( **a place to assemble) that I may dwell among them.
( **you should be there)
According to all that I shew thee, after the pattern of the tabernacle, and the pattern of all the instruments thereof, even so shall ye make it.
Jesus and all of his disciples went to the synagogue ( We call it the Church) every Sabbath. *A Christian* should emulate the life and examples 👈🏾of Christ. That’s what CHRISTIANS do.
I do realize people make up and create motives and ideas to fit their life but,
TRUE love for Jesus produces obedience. Too many people attempt to be their own “island” ; When Jesus said do NOT forsake the assembling of yourselves together
👉🏾as in the manner *some* is 👈🏾KJV …..
See , There has always been those who have attempted to circumvent what God said 🗣symbolically saying:
Isaiah 4:1
“And in that day seven women shall take hold of one man, saying,
We will eat 👉🏾our OWN *bread,👈🏾*( which should be GODS *Word)
and wear 👉🏾our OWN *apparel👈🏾: *( which should be GODS *righteousness)
ONLY let us be called by thy name,
👉🏾to take away our reproach.”
There’s only one truth and it’s what God said.
be obedient… 👉🏾NOT👈🏾 to be used as a latter to salvation but because of the LOVE For Jesus Christ… be obedient….
@@polishedbrotherChristians don't Know God and Christ watch Brother Yarashalam
Great conversation and panel. Thanks for sharing.
Because they don't want to be mind control.
This is better than the movie barbershop and I thought that was a great classic!
True Men of God !
With all thy getting, get understanding!
Black men it is important to have a foundation with God, apart of that relationship is to know him in spirit and word. Church is a training ground where you learn and worship) praise God. It's important, very important that a man have the support of similar minded men for support and mentorship. The pastor may have been positioned by God, he might be also well versed in scripture with people skills. But it is also important for a man to have these same attributes and spirit.
A must know and represent his position as a husband, father, as a member of the body of Christ. There is more to it than, church attendance, offering, and church anniversary and the pastor. The pastor is not a king and he don't run your house.
The pastor is not responsible for your house ,he just provide counseling to his preaching, teaching and a godly lifestyle.
The man is the man of his household, he set the rules, the timing, the pace with the guidance of holy spirit .
The house can be ran anyway, but a home is covered by the spirit of God, the man is the head of his home and he share dominion with his wife unto his child and those who reside or come under his roof.
A house is a structure, a home is a place fortified with love: love is the spirit of God. Seek God first.
Well said 👏🏿 ❤
The word worship is one of the issues for people esoterically. Even they may not know it.
The meaning of Worship is to give acknowledgement or worthiness together with God.
So if you are already being taught you come from a place worthlessness. Its easy to not really care if you go or not cause your consider a failure. Some people can't get around that.
Dominion means Master or Lord or God
So saying Man has Dominion over his wife gives her no value. He is her God. Her master and if Man is master over a woman. Which man has more say in the black community? Most times The pastor.
A lot of the time that pastor has more day then a man in his own house cause that woman is trained to follow.
That also then translates to Dominion over animals. So now we slaughter them for sport and fictitious profit. Animals endangered like crazy. Environment endangered like crazy.
We do not innerstand the words we use. We are just on autopilot following someone else's programming.
If you are going to preach from The Bible, The Quran, TheTorah, etc. The way in which we teach these concepts must be upgraded .
I got tired of the amount of tithes and offerings the black church wanted and I also got tired of the church choir DIRECTOR and the choir turning into a hip hop and r&b show while the pastor is in the pulpit getting his G walk on🙏🏽🙏🏽🙏🏽
@@ignoranceisnotatrend4669but we give to Italian designers, expensive smell goods, jewelry, handbags, etc, we gotta stop with the excuses, it costs to maintain the house of God, plus everything belongs to God, the least we can do is give 10%, my life is enriched because I give without question, it’s a trust thing more than a money thing. I trust God w/ my finances, and he increases.
@locnmmama, I appreciate your example, but tithing was never money, everyone did not tithe, and the recipients of the tithe was the people, not the pastor. “It cost to maintain the house of God?” The building is not the church. You and I are the church. We can have Bible study in a park. If Jesus didn’t do it, how can the flawed man? We are to give, but not the way it is preached today.
My guy Dude....love this fellas. Very informative piece. These are conversations that we need to have for sure.
Thanks Lord for your salvation
Thanks Lord for your peace
Thanks Lord for my church and Bible study class.
If the apostle Paul was alive today, he would be upset with most churches. Why? The deception of tithes and offering, and the doctrines they teach, which are against the teachings of the apostles. Most churches today do not even keep the Ten Commandments...let that sink in. There are thousands of different church denominations where each one says their doctrine is correct...but only one can be right or maybe all are wrong...no one is humble enough to revise their doctrines when it's shown to be wrong. Folks need to start asking more questions and "study" the Bible, don't just read it...study to show yourself approved...also see Acts 17:11.
Bless you bro
I enjoyed this topic and the conversation to include the style. You brothers demonstrated what is missing in the church today. I looked beyond your conversation and heard love and compassion. Truth by real men to help others by not condemning but by revealing and encouraging. I am looking forward to part II. I pray that this panel and ministry continues. Much love brothers
What will end all of this is to find a Pastor that loves God.
A Pastor that lives to serve and serves to live is what we is the best teacher to learn from.
I pray that as we seek a place for learning God's Truths that we stay focused on what the Spirit desires and not ourselves!!!
Wow this is powerful! A really good point that stood out to me the young brother said was the church clicks. This is BAD in the church! I don't do clicks and for this reason am very little involved in our young adult activities.
Another issue for men not attending is the needs and day to day struggles of a man is not being addressed. People come to church to find solutions and ways to cope with certain obstacles but most churches are just transactional, business as usual.
If a man feels there's too many politics or certain needs are never addressed in the church, they feel as though it's pointless to come. That said, Im a deacon/drummer in the church speaking on these issues.
I had a lot of bad experiences at church. I saw that the churches covered up a lot of wrongdoing from the pool pit and a lot of people were addicted to going to church. I hated the things that went on the day of Watch-Night services in Detroit back in the day.
I love this conversation! Its much needed. We need black men in the church!
This is an EXCELLENT conversation!!
I've had conversations with brothers that were hesitant about going to church on Father's Day, it was said, "Probably going to be a beat down for the brothers ."
When your eyes are open, it's hard to ignore foolery. Studying and meditating for yourself makes a big difference. However, I used to goto church for the fellowship - but, I got tired of people only wanting to talk about 'outside' things when service was over; so, that cut out the fellowship. People are mainly at church "doing time" so they feel their ticket to Heaven is stamped.
The issue is that Jesus judges what goes on after church as well
Thank you sir…I will use this in our upcoming Ironman ministry This will definitely help in the SWOT analysis of what is hurting men’s ministry collectively
Study to show yourself approved,rightly dividing the word of truth😊
Here a little, there a little, line upon line, precept upon precept, this is how we may come to truth, as God the real holy spirit, opens one's eyes to truth. Not tongues, dreams, visions, etc.
Interesting conversation. I appreciate the topic because I think is relevant and much needed. As a pastor with a desire to see more black men in church, I find this discussion beneficial.
Thanks for sharing.
Thank you for listening.
We all know there is good and bad in everything here on earth!
Good and Bad :
Doctors but we still go to a doctor when we’re sick
Good and bad :
Schools/teachers but we don’t drop out altogether!
Good and bad :
Lawyers , but that doesn’t stop us from taking perusing justice!
Good and Bad:
Bankers, but that doesn’t mean we pull our money out and put it under our mattress!
Good and Bad drivers:
But even if we’re putting our lives on the line by driving, we don’t sell our
cars and walk!!
So why is it when it comes to “Pastors”…
We QUIT church altogether!!????
Instead of praying and asking God to lead us to a place where the Pastor is after Gods own heart as He promises in His Word??
And for the record…
Yes, these are real concerns but so is PRIDE and a lot of men ain’t trying to have anyone especially another man tell them what to do - even if it’s coming from Gods Word!
One of the reasons along with what has been discussed as to why men don’t go to church is that men don’t see enough of themselves in church, the pandering to women often at men’s expense, the leadership of men in their family and community being under assault and deemphasized by men, the ascension of women in pastoral ministry that confuses men and their natural DNA to lead.
PREACH IT, PREACH IT AGAIN, PREACH IT ONE MORE TIME, AMEN ✝️ YES LORD YES LORD LORD YES LORD YES AMEN 🙏 RIGHT ON POINT, AMEN 🙏 SO SO TRUE AMEN, ✝️HALLELUJAH GLORY TO GOD 🙏 ✝️ 🙌
I go to church with my wife in support of her. As she supports me 24/6.8 days a week. Least I can do.
Thts all well and good but i encourage you establish your own relationship with God ask God Lord what is your will for my life God will reveal Himself to you your wife can’t save you frm ur sins but God can n He’s called you to be the priest n covering of your home tht include your wife and children God bless you sir I applaud you for going and supporting your wife thts s beautiful thing 🙏🏽
I'm glad to see men talking and not fighting each others! Iron sharpen Iron!!
Great Conversation, Read and study the living word of God. Trust God and let the Holy Spirit lead. Gal 5: 16-18, James 4:12🙏🏾❤️🔥
AMEN AMEN AMEN!
Much respect! I appreciate the conversation and the platform for men to voice their thoughts and opinions.
If they go to church and commit to God they have to do a lot of changes. Most r not ready for it, but if our men get it together we will be fine. We are waiting my brothers. We love you and need you.
Proud of you brothers. This is what young men need to see. Grown men acting grown and respecting each other.
i came up during the crack era, when people would go to church on sunday and be hitting the pipe again on monday, and would have the nerve to tell us to go to school and stay away from drugs, when they was selling our school clothes and buying drugs from us, and the non-smokers would go to church and still be struggling to get through the week, and i would say to myself i think i'll stay away from that once i become an adult🤔
This was an excellent conversation. I just stumbled upon this on RUclips. I'm glad I did because I am from Detroit Eastside. I try my best to make it to church if I am not at work. There is not alot of young people at the church I attend and I have been wondering why the youth isn't into God
You seem to think a person can only be into GOD if they attend church.
The church is not a building or organization but a group of people who know and worship Jesus. Christians are taught, “Let us consider how we may spur one another on toward love and good deeds, not giving up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing, but encouraging one another-and all the more as you see the Day approaching”
OMG! I L💙VE this conversation especially among my brothers it's CRITICAL . I absolutely love this I ve been 🙏🏽 praying for our men , All Men especially our. BLK males bcuz for ALL they have to go through in this world 🌎 frm birth is. Horrible hatred against them & the only ANTIDOTE to that type of EVIL is CHRIST JESUS LORD & SAVIOR REDEEMER KING of KINGS . I've been PRAYING for our BLK MEN this is so refreshing, & a answer to my PRAYERS 🎉👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽🙏🏽😇☝🏽🦋 Roro westside LA Cali TO GOD be the GLORY☝🏽
We appreciate you for listening! Thank you for the kind words!
I have never, ever been a member of ANY church that asks for ANYONE'S W2! What church can you share does this?!😲🤷🏽
I stumbled on and I really enjoyed this. My assumption is that y’all are from Detroit because I heard Livernois and 6 mile.
I love church and I’m glad my husbands mom and dad raised him there because I wouldnt have met the love of my life 😍😍😍
Great discussion and even a better panel of men. Tuning in next week.
Very great topic to discuss.
I’m at the 32 minute mark of this discussion. And as I listen this major theme stands out to me. If the foundation of what every man believes begins and ends with God is real and salvation is available only through Jesus Christ then a man first has to understand this as it pertains to the pastor; that man is MUST answer to God for everything! Every complaint about the pastor I’ve heard from this panel makes it seem as if the pastor has to be a certain way for you to believe he is authentic. But you yourself can be sometimey, in and out, and Monday morning quarterbacking that pastors every move.
It's always money for the church and the pastor without bringing real and abundant value to the community. No banks, no hospitals, no youth outreach, no impact, no black owned business creation, no business and economic training. Bring abundant value to the community! Beautiful Churches on every corner in wrecked neighborhoods.
Amen!!!
🎯🎯🎯
But that's not the responsibility of the church. The church is to reconnect man with God through the Gospel of Jesus Christ. That's the real and abundant value. Jesus said, "I am The Way The Truth and The Life. No man can come to the Father without the Son" - John 14:6 and "The thief does not come except to steal, and to kill, and to destroy, but I have come that they may have life and that they may have it more ABUNDANTLY" John 10:10. The lack of banks, hospitals, and businesses are not because the church doesn't provide it. It's because of the people's bad choices in voting for the political leaders who are doing nothing, the "culture" that tells you to stay away from church to engage in sin, witchcraft and other false religions, and the biggest issue fatherlessness and the destruction of the family.
@@rochyns8567 you are so wrong. The church, any church is the glue of any society. When the church is not working for the "group" in practical way, members will leave. Especially men. If you don't give them something concrete their bullshit meters go up. Every society that is strong their church is at the center of their life, not just spiritual life but all their life. Yes the church has to be involved in school, in finance, in banking, in getting the community right. If you think church is just for spirituality no wonder our church is just taking advantage of our people.
@@rochyns8567why not? The Catholic Church has schools, colleges, and hospitals. And if the black church doesn’t have those institutions because of poor voting decisions of it congregants, Why doesn’t the church teach its congregant how to vote? Why aren’t they fighting for reparations? why does the black church bring in those same poor candidates to give speeches? Why do they bus their congregants to vote for those poor candidates? Souls to the polls anyone? Biden was just at a black church and Rev. Williams Barber is starting a whole operation to get black people to vote for democrats this election.
From 2013 to 2015 I tried attending various local churches from Pasadena to Koreatown. Invariably some dude or two dudes would come and sit close next to me at the beginning of sermon, looking for his "special someone" and praying it was me. I attend an online ministry here on RUclips ever since. No way I putting up with that anymore.
That's weird asf but sounds believable asf
😄
Sick people!!
They are tired of the lies and gossiping in church., tired of the passing of the plate 4 times in one service (which only helps the pastor), tired of them begging, tired of them not speaking from the Bible, tired of theatrics, tired of people dressing like they just came from the club, etc. I’m not a man but I’m tired of it!!
I concur
This was awesome this was very good glad I came and listen. I understand all the questions I've been there.. I'm going to share this on my Facebook to try to get other brothers to watch this..
I remember being 11 years old and making believe i was sleeping on the couch in the living room and hearing my grandmother my mother and my auntie’s talking in kitchen about the church and the preachers, and my grandmother said, when you see a preacher hold on tight to your panties and your purse, and they all agree with my grandmother.
If your pastor wears sunglasses he’s definitely checking out those thick as-s. That’s serious btw.
Some of what is being said is true. Its not a blanket that covers all churches or all pastors. Dont mistake respecting and honoring pastors as worshipping them. They are worthy of honor, according to the word. If you really want to be part of a bible teaching, Jesus believing, body that fellowships with each other and worships God, keep looking until you find it. The Lord bless you and keep on keeping you is my prayer!
When you are a consistent giver to ministry, it gives you credibility to go and ask your pastor about a particular sermon he preached. It is difficult to take constructive criticism from those that don’t assist in constructing. Not just at church, but even at the work place.
Good, you guys are doing this. Very true on many of the points. I d like to add to your discussion.