What WOTLK Classic will change for Protection Paladins
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- Опубликовано: 12 сен 2024
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This is what WOTLK Classic will change for your protection paladin. It might not be completely exhaustive in terms of change but should definitely arm you with all the major ones that really matter. Hope you enjoy it.
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Ill never forget when og wrath started and i noticed that rank 1 and 2 of shield of the righteous did not share a cooldown. It made prot pally threat truly godmode and you could basically global people in pvp 😂
Oh dang. I wonder if that'll still be the case
@@AccountInactive nah. It was fixed
One thing that you noted was the change of strength now giving paladins spell power. A big thing in TBC was paladins stacking weapons that gave spell power which made them compete with casters for the equipment. This change was huge for them since they could now just stack the strength tanking gear and get spell power automatically. This also substantially increased their base line damage which allowed a high damage tanking class to go into raids. Back on WotLK originally release many people continued to play their classes from TBC, however if you are starting fresh from that expansion then there really is no reason to take a tank other than a paladin. The other big change in this xpac was the addition of deathknights which changed the total number of plate classes to 3. That meant that dps plate was really hard to come by but tanking plate in many ways became more frequent. Originally i played a paladin in this xpac and was ret but ended up going holy since i couldn't win any loot for ret with the deathknights. I ended up getting a full set of healing gear before i ever got a ret piece of gear from raids. Holy paladins also did extremely well in this xpac. The only class that performed better was shamans in ice crown raid with chain heal. Thank you for the video it was fun to remember the good times.
Can't wait for our full Paladin raids bro - yep, thats happening ;)
Never played wrath prot paladin so this is all new news to me, but im maining one right now in tbc, and something that at least seems huge at 9:50 that you didn't talk about is that avengers shield is now instant cast!
This move was really only good for prepulls and that was it, the meta kind of turned to skipping this talent and going 40/21 in tbc for that sanc aura in the ret tree for more holy damage since you couldn't use this to scoop mobs mid combat with a cast time on it, due to spell pushback on the mobs you were tanking. Instant cast change means you could actually use this now to get snap threat on mobs outside of your consecrate range, seems dope!
Prot pally just keeps getting better over the next few expansions. I can't wait for it! Love my prot in tbc but man it's just so much better in wrath-mop.
Awesome! Now I want wotlk classic twice as bad thanks scotty! 😊
Been watching your future change videos and as I type this, I am currently levelling a paladin who i am aiming to main come wrath, mostly as healer main spec. thank you for these videos as it has helped me decide what I want to play. I was torn between Pala/Shaman/Mage. but being able to do all slots is really appealing. I look forward to seeing more videos.
Love the wrath content and can’t wait to see more classes. I’d love your opinions on tier lists, tanks, healers, dps (maybe split melee and range), or just class/specs overall. Keep it coming man!
Should be noted that avengers shield is now an instant cast
Paladin hype 🔥🔥love your videos scotte 💙
Outstanding vid man, can't wait for the Ret video.
The only critique that I have of your talent portion is that you didn't mention vindication in the ret tree. Once you are doing TOGC, or ICC heroic, then vindication from either the prot paladin or a ret paladin becomes a huge boon on reducing tank incoming damage and should always be considered.
Yeah vindication on single target is a must for rets later, totally agree, I’m going to be putting a video out next week about all the buffs and de buffs and this will defo be mentioned 👍
I disagree. Bear tank Demo roar is more consistant. Vindication from a ret is waay too much rng. For a ppally it's more consistant, but there's still moments when it isn't up and not having it on lk can hurt a lot
its just me posen and i will indeed be playing wotlk thx for always cheering and thx for posting
People really underestimate putting one point in reckoning. If you are being hit by many mobs, it will proc quite a bit, which combined with seal of command aoe is quite a bit of extra dps.
Finally an expansion where other tanks don’t scream when you ask to tank literally anything!
People love prot paladins in tbc. Dunno what you are talking about.
Wrath is such an incredibly boring expansion to tank. The most fun tank to play is warrior and they while not bad at all, are just worse than the other options they are the B+ tank competing DKs and Druids being A and paladins being S tier. Threat is a complete joke and every trash pack becomes an AOE fest. The worst tank for AOE is the Blood DK, they have to wait for D&D and it is on a much longer cooldown.
I hate Vanilla "tanking" with fury prot, it sucked. TBC is top tier tanking and Wrath was like "lol lets make it a joke and so easy that any idiot can do it" Seriously if you are a bad tank in Wrath, MMORPGs are not for you, go play cookie clicker.
@@Evirthewarrior yeah 99% of the time.
The fun comes when as paladin or dk you decide to tank Mimrons head or off tank the second Prince whilst tanking the mage Prince too.
Then especially for paladins I used to enjoy doing heroics more than ICC25HC towards the end because you'd be like 70% ret geared/with seal of command and reckoning.
And unfortunately because it's probably going to be end game patch you can't solo tank all of Gluths adds on 10 or 25 with no damage. since basically all block rating was removed when Ulduar dropped.
@@Evirthewarrior okay virgin
@@Evirthewarrior threat a joke from Wrath on (other than very niche cases at super high M+ keys on current retail) unfortunately. They made tanks harder to play a bit though in Cata onwards. Less passive mitigation
I like the production value of this video, it's a LOT of information, so you kept it mostly on topic and went over it pretty quickly. Content wise: Hard disagree on everything you said about command (which was like 20% of the video) You should NOT take seal of command it's just less damage outright than a 5 stack of vegeance. Seals of the Pure in the Holy tree ensures that vengeance is your highest threat seal for both single target and aoe as well it's not even close, (Seals of the Pure, point for point, is higher threat than conviction) SoV/SoCorruption is just WAAAAY more damage when it's 5 stacked on every mob (hammer of the righteous helps stacks it up fast on everyone). As prot, you will never need to use any other seal. 5/54/12 is great. Also.... You spent an entire video talking about prot paladin and didn't ONCE mention 969 That's a BIG fail. I didn't hit dislike, because I didn't want to screw up the algorithm and you generally put out good content, but you definitely dropped the ball on this one. 969 is a fundamental aspect to how prot paladin plays and feels, and the fact you took 2 points in improved judgements and didn't take a point in judgement of the just tells me you haven't nearly put enough time into playing your prot paladin to get the rotation down. You spent more time talking about alternative "meme specs" than fundamentally good play. You will not be doing a different aoe tanking or a single target rotation, 969 is used for both scenarios, and you will be tab targeting to get up your 5 stack of vengeance on all mobs and hammer to help maintain them (remember to swap before you get to 5 because your hammer will refresh/stack it up those extra times. Another popular retail wotlk build was and will be again was wotlkdb.com/?talent#sVhbMZV0tAbuMGsIusdxo Lay on Hands with glyph is only 11 minutes, it's basically just another mini shield wall on top of all the other mini shield walls that we have. Instead of being scared to use lay on hands, you should be using it literally every boss fight. I think you might have missed the fact that the auras are raid wide, so it's important for prot to take the improved devo talent because it's for the entire raid and the other paladins can't get the improved version.
I think you copied warcraft tavern's TERRIBLE prot paladin wotlk guide for your talents... that thing is so wrong on so many issues, don't listen to that. The reason people were not taking judgements of the just on warmane is because it was bugged and not actually slowing mobs by 20%. In retail WoTLK that will not be an issue, 20% less damage taken... for 2 talent points!!!!! compare that to literally any other talent point you took from a mitigation perspective. But you should also theoretically pick up vindication, which is also bugged on private servers and not doing anything, which is a HUGE damage reduction. 56/15 is equally as viable and was actually my preferred spec tanking in 3.3 for everything from pug dungeon finder groups to Hard mode ICC and sarth because yea, as you said, threat isn't really ever a problem so this build allows you to pick up ALL of the mitigation talents (just without the lay on hands cooldown).. But yea, the bigger issue is assuming you're going to have a frost dk, feral bear, prot warrior with you aka another tank tanking your mob... when that's kind of the point of being the prot paladin, you're replacing those people in the group, in raid encounters you might be standing far away from those other tanks, you can't rely on them for debuffs, 56/15 lets you put up all of the debuffs you need to survive by yourself. Having the short cooldown on hammer of justice is important for fights like lich king where you need lots and lots of stuns.
Source: me worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/character/us/black-dragonflight/lolpaladins/achievements/dungeons-raids/lich-king-raid
Anyways:
TL;DR spec this wotlkdb.com/?talent#sZV0tAruMGsIufdxsr0b
google: 969 paladin rotation
969 has no relevance in a video about what’s changed, it’s not a guide on how to play.
Secondly, what scenario are you playing where you can get vengeance stacked 5 times on multiple mobs? If you are playing massively overturned severs then fine but in a blizzard capacity server trash is going to blow up not only in heroics but in raids as well.
This is an entry level video for people who looking at paladins in early WotlK not progressing in ICC25 heroic.
I appreciate all your input in this comment because it’s well written and fair but ultimately you strike me as someone playing on warmanes fully progressed server purely doing ICC25 heroic which definitely isn’t relevant to this video?
@@Scottejaye Nah, I'm actually playing classic tbc playing in a typical "dad guild" that was stuck at 9/10 Tier 5 before the extreme nerfs hit last week and we could finally kill Vashj (our kill times range from 20%-50% parses, our best players are purple and our worst players are grey). In retail wotlk I was in a similar "casual/hardcore guild" because the term "dad guild" didn't exist 15 years ago (examples: I have 10 man naxx undying achievement but not 25man achievement, I cleared hard mode 10man totc, but not 25m totc, I have 25m 1 light in the darkness but not no lights in the darkness) Cleared 25m hard mode everything EXCEPT lich king, but that was only after the crazy good buff started going out which made it way more trivial. Maybe on a post-nerfed values private server using 3.3.5 data and the more hardcore players you tend to find on private servers you might be killing stuff so quickly that you can't get the stacks up, but I can guarantee you as a prot paladin 15 years ago, it will definitely happen again in classic wotlk (assuming they go with the whole pre-nerf -> post nerf strategy they are using in classic tbc. Not just raids but heroic dungeons too, you'll have lots and lots and lots of time to get your 5 stack of vengeance up. you just have to tab around a little to the other mobs, and swap off the first when it's only up to say 3 stacks and let hammer build it up the rest of the way to 5. I mean trash in ssc went from about a 2 minute encounter to about 30 seconds, same thing happened iirc in wotlk. And yea, you are 100% right, private server players tend to be better than blizzard server players. So I'm not using warmane data or anything like that, I'm just giving you my personal experience as a retail tank in retail wrath in a "average" guild.
It's not super relevant but here are my parses in tbc classic and the type of guild I tend to find myself involved with. Because I do know words on the internet are just words unless you can back them up with actual data.
classic.warcraftlogs.com/character/us/thunderfury/lolpaladins
This cannot be understated. WOTLK Ardent Defender is the single most broken tank ability ever introduced into this game (in practice not just in writing). An auto proc cheat death on a tank with a 2 min cd is insane. Not to mention the rest of the insane kit of prot in wotlk
This can be said for almost any class that they are broken in WOTLK.
Just a quick note on judgment of the just its one of like 3 abilities, the other being thunderclap from warriors and infected wounds by druids that allow mages to use Torment of the Weak. So if those sources are not there the mages might get a little mad. Otherwise great video!
I am getting hyped for wotlk. i cannot wait to live that wowhobbs dream
One thing I'm having trouble nailing down is what trinkets to swap out for extra threat. What are my spell coefficients in wrath. Do the abilities only scale with sp or is ap (raw ap, not str) scale our abilities now. Wrath classic is going to see a new influx of better players and more optimized dps specs and gearing and I think we'll find that when metas change prot pallies aren't going to have "no problems with threat" anymore.
You should have spoken about the stat changes mate -- and the fact that no one wants to go for spellpower anymore? At least that's what I remember it being like...
I haven’t watched this one back for a while but I think I mentioned it when talking about the talent that increases spell power by strength? Could be wrong but if I am it’ll be spoke about in the tier 7 bis video next week and again in the PvE guide so thanks for the feedback either way mate, appreciate it 🙏
I had two protection specs during the end of Wrath.
Boss/basic survival
AoE/Trash
Seal of Command with reckoning and loads of str gear and a nice weapon can basically speed ICC trash up by like 20-30% alone.
Makes heroics trivial other than the ICC dungeons you'll clear everything in stupid time.
Please do Ret next! Paladins are fucking dope, my favorite class by far.
The only thing you missed was the change to the talent at the top the ret tree (Benediction) reducing the mana cost of ALL instant cast abilities now and not just seals, which includes blessings, hands, consecration, cleanse , etc. There's often better options but it can be worth taking for leveling, farming and some 5 man specs.
As an H Pal, can’t wait to heal my tight homies of the light, my prot boys
Nice video, seems prot paladins will be hype =)
Can't wait! Cheers mate!
Can you make a followup guid with rotarions on how to tank single targets and aoe? Which seal to use and so on... :D
Absolutely will be coming mate 🙏
@@Scottejaye Warmane will start a new season on the server Frostmourne on the 15th might be a nice "preview"... :D
Definitely my favourite tank
I have a pre patch question, with all the changes in talents etc. What weapon enchant should a Prot Paladin go for?
Ardent Defender. So strong they turned it into an active ability to tone it down.
Great video mate
on blizzlike pservers, prot palas are bis, 2nd are feral tanks and DKs. Warrs aren't bad, but not as good in patch 3.3.5a.
Okay so I thought boosting was fixed in tbc? Are we going to be able to do it in wotlk?
A 2 minute cheat death that’s just an addon to a talent that’s halfway down the tree. Like a “oh ya also btw you won’t ever die” lol
What would you recommend for profession for a prot pally? If you dont care i'd like your input on p1 and what to switch to while p1 is coming to a close in WOTLK. Thanks! =)
Hey mate, me personally, I would go mining engineer because there is one specific farm with engineering that prot pala is amazing for, plus being a fairly immobile tank having nitro boosts is amazing. The armour on gloves is ofc nice as well and you are getting the 60 stam from mining and more gold potential there with Titansteel bar cool-down and general mine farming and obviously can save a lot of gold getting your own engi mats. From here quite alot of people would choose enchanting for solo gold making potential or JC for the big gems and trinket (because the trinket is actually a juicy amount of stam) I would go the JC route ready for ulduar especially if you have an alt with enchanting because you can just get it in a group using someone else so your char is offline in the group switch to pally and use the DE button on the loot roll window. I’ve always done that with a second account but someone told me recently (which I haven’t tested fyi) that the enchanter don’t even need to be online.
Sorry for the wall of text lol
The community benefits so much from your knowledge sharing SJ!
Are there any changes to buffing raids or is it still equally as obnoxious?
We got a lot too look forward to in wrath as Prot Paladins such as EVERYONE ELSE playing Prot Paladins too. 😂 can you say overpopulation?
Great vid.
When is wotlk classic dropping?
is consencration capped on its AOE limit in wotlk?
Awesome
hand of reckoning 100% a core rotational ability for ret paladin. this is not a discusion.
Yeah sounds pretty OP
Im not worried about prots in pve,its prot who wears ret gear in pvp whos unkillable who worries me.
Dks are spell dmg tanks not just single target and have self heals
which WoTLK server is Scott playing on?
Sindragosa by Synergie
I know this is the wrong vid, but helps the algorithm anyway haha - Can a feral tank do similar farms as pally with that trinket and using like a low rank swipe to proc aspect of pack while running to prevent hp drain? Then swap to max rank for kill phase?
The trinket procs on a successful block so it’s useless for druids
@@dollybaumer2 not figurine, I meant essence of gossamer, that one is just a proc on struck
swipe spends the same ammount of rage no matter the rank
@@svilendenchev9984 the reason to use low rank is to generate crits to heal off leader of the pack, but minimise damage and killing too many mobs enroute
@@Thegiggleofsteel yeah you won't the heal proc has an interval of 6 seconds
Do you have a build for lvl70 prot wotlk farming talents?
The change in seals means rets no longer seal twist right?
Not how we know it in TBC. You would change seals during a fight for example keeping your 5 stack of sov up on the boss then switching back and forth between soc for adds and sov to keep the 5 stack rolling. Outside of that not afaik
Yeah you just use Vengeance cus at 5 stacks it deals a third of your weapon damage as holy damage. at cleave phases you do seal of command(valkyries at LK)
Its a shame we won't get a true patch by patch release. At one point prot dps was a thing. Ofc prot pvp is good, would like to mention by icc blood DK is the main tank.
Blood DK is good but prot pally is better for sure. Call at endgame progression the cooldowns they have along with having a passive death Proc makes them able to take shots no other tank can tank.
Have to agree to disagree there, heroic icc it about the dps and even the heals pumping as much as possible...ice touch is highest threat by a country mile. Bloods survivability is extremely high.
@James Baggett if threat is an issue your team is garbage.
spiritual attunement is 1/2
is WOTLK Classic even gonna come out? I say that cause it "FEELS" like the classic vibe is waning during TBC. Plus all the shit that went down at Blizz does not really help.
Waiting on the dk tank video
Yo for the algorithm
shrimp bein important
When do you guys think blizzard will release wrath?
I still think 2022 - November time, I have a video on the channel breaking down why check it out mate
@2:26
id like to see a prot paly hold threat again a frost tank dk aoe or single target
Lol and why would he need to, a decent prot warrior would out threat both of them if he could play, why is they relevant?
what about weapons. Are paladins still required to use spell power weapons?
no the final patch in TBC in think bring in these changes & prot pallys use the same weps as a prot warrior does
@@Kiwi_Voodoo that was a fucking scary patch man the paladins came out of the woodwork and just made most pvp servers unplayable.
@@randomanun4278 yeah paladins 1 shot everyone in wrath pre patch 😂😂 shadow priest also becomes incredibly stupid during that time.
@@JoshLineberry I remember watching a ret paladin in full brut take 8 people on and win.
In Dutch, "prot" means fart.
U know if Prot pala will be able to solo High Priest Thekal for Swift Zulian Tiger in Wotlk?
I'll give it a go tomorrow mate and let you know, not something I've even looked at tbh up to this point
@@Scottejaye Ty alot!
@@Scottejaye Was it possible
It gets nerfed at some point and is fairly soloable, ive done it on combat rogue.
@@andreassebbe you can do it now but takes a few min
Will there be lv 70 boost to get started?
From what i heard yes, 70 or 68.
Its a shame warriors are by far way more exciting and fun to play in basically every way than a paladin, but even playing at 100% efficiency a mediocre paladin will do better. On a tier list, warriors are a B+, ferals and DKs are an A and paladins are S+. Warriors are not bad tanks at all, they are just the worst of the bunch.
I made a overview of all wotlk healers and guide to a hybrid priest build of my own making, hope you see my vid
why make new stuff if you can upsell old stuff once more^^
Aww no you gone and forgot instant adventure shield
D sac cancel aura trick makes it a personal cd. Tips and tricks for later
I remember in wrath,my hunter was op. I was always topped out at DPS.
ofc there are no prot wars cuz they suck in wrath :P
"It's not gonna be boring because it's paladin" - paladin seemed to me like the most boring class always :D.
You gain 25% of your total mana over 15%, but...
but your healing aint shit...
I wish TBC prot pally had this. Instead we just oom if we're not getting our face fuckin slapped.
i mean you pop wings and your healing is ok. or a spell power trinket
Isn't there a glyph that prevents spell casting on targets of avenger shield?
When he says he coveted druid druid restro and feral and say everything what about guardian QQ XD ik he means it in feral but QQ XD
Here first bby
Isn't there a glyph that prevents spell casting on targets of avenger shield?
if you dont like this video, you aint paladin . (if you dont vote for me ,you aint black)
Too much self healing, tanky and dps... it's definitely a class for morons... I'm so glad that in some servers they are not allowed to assist on tournaments
Isn't there a glyph that prevents spell casting on targets of avenger shield?