@@dimitriostsiampalis364 I've seen people like him a lot, probably a kid in its edgy phase thinking he's smarter than everyone and looking at life as a videogame while still thinking he's smarter than everyone lol
@biwabiwa well veigarv2 is literally in Europe and has literally no say in their drafts. He probably talks to the players about drafts and maybe champs to practice in soloq but is just another analyst that doesnt really have alot to say. The fact that you can still buy coaching from him if im not mistaken and the fact that he has a patreon where he shares thoughts on champs should prove his opinion is not what people see in drafts.
“I fear not the man who has practiced 10,000 kicks once, but I fear the man who has practiced one kick 10,000 times.” -Bruce Lee, on why his ult makes him a B1 pick
LS understands variance is key. You cant have 160 champs in the game and only use 70ish of them... Looking at you RIOT and every western team. PLAY THE WEIRDCHAMP and put your opp in a constant state of disarray. Suprise is the warriors greatest weapon. This is the WESTS only way to beat internation competition. Draft for the wombo combo and scaling with weird champ synergies.
I feel like this interview just further serves to highlight the reason this team (built by LS) would have thrived, and without his backbone in the coaching position and forcing these players into uncomfortable situations and scenarios in draft and in game to grow, they would have never succeeded internationally.
We will never know if it would have thrived. That is pure speculation. It does appear that the team is ran not by a coach but by the players. If that is indeed the case we will see a futher slide into the dirt. The only player I would consider listening to is Blabber. Everyone else is too green with no success to draw on or still learning his new role.
Well LS would actually flame the players for being dumb, which is why C9 kicked him (presumably). Seems like they would rather have their systems let the players draft like this and get swept two times in a row.
In c9 week 2 behind the scene, LS tells Summit to first time malphite and they win the game from that Giga pick. Max and V2 can have the same philosophy as LS on the game, but you can tell they don’t have the confidence to tell the players shut their excuses and just pick nasus support.
@@Evan2768 I assume you haven’t kept up with what the community has been saying for the past weeks. Summit likely has more say in top picks for several reasons, including higher age than Max (Korean culture) and C9 management being more on the side of players than coaches. These are not verified of course but these are logical hypotheses given that Max and other coaches have voiced (in one platform or another) that their drafts are horrible, but it seems that they cannot seem to change it.
@@Evan2768 week 2 when they lose against TL, they hoover GP but somehow they change it to Aatrox which doesn't make any sense if you know LS. Then a few weeks ago LS said in his stream "you need to compromise to the players.."
@@hubertgiang4591 that doesn’t make any sense. Biggest “say” among the players I can grant, but above all the staff too… yeah idk about that one chief. Seems this is the system that Jack is okay with
Now we know why LS got kicked lmao. If you ask me, this bullshit org/coaching team didn't want to deal with him serving them cold hard truths and not allowing C9 to dwell within stagnation, so someone bitched about it and got him removed as a coach. Karma's a thing though so the skeleton's in their closets finally came out in full effect and inevitably resulted in their downfall.
Getting removed right before a game without realizing it definitely implies more things. But nonetheless this is a sad fall from what was one of the most exciting teams in preseason
@@theemms5288 reminder that Summit is the same guy who was making fun of Faker crying in 2017 Worlds along with LSB 2021 except Effort, dude sounds like an absolute bitch to everyone he doesn't favor off-game.
@@theemms5288 That doesn't even make sense since LS convinced Summit and Berzerker to join. Summit as a new player also will not have much say. He also hardcore carried C9 through when the team was actually doing well. The more obvious and logical player who has that kind of pull is either Blaber or Fudge. Just look at Fudge sitting there in Game 2 doing nothing to give away a free Penta to Danny (who did not even want that Penta). Shows you which players are actually professional.
@@inconvenientfacts58Yea I agree, idk what that take was. Korea 9 only came to realisation BECAUSE of LS’s Korean ties and existing relationships with its player base.
It really feels like summit isn’t willing to play what his team needs him to play. He could’ve played the Orn or GP like against GG, but opted into to the Camille. Yamato said similar things when he was on sandbox that it was very difficult to get summit to play certain things. In the fudge interview with dgon he said similar things that summit has major problems that need to be worked on. I really feel like if summit doesn’t get his shit together you just drop him, move fudge back to top, and get someone like Jensen to be your midlaner. I really hope this is the biggest wake up call for summit, but I not confident at all.
From what I remember the Yamato story was that he was talking with some analyst about builds and was shown math about Trinity Force being better than cleaver on gnar. He then asked Summit to try it and he refused because "Khan and Nuguri weren't building it".
Drafting GP does not change the dynamic of the game or the lane state at all. The reality is no one C9 can generate pressure across the map. Blaber is busy full clearing as a lee sin while ganking for a losing mid lane who still got giga diff after the numerous ganks thrown on him. Fudge is PVE in mid while Jojo is perm roaming. C9 bot just hand shake the lane and end up not doing much in team fights. The best bet is to put Fudge support and have Jensen mid. This will give Blaber two winning lanes he can look to invade off and make plays and a mid that has a champion pool.
Cloud9 for years has developed systems on how we like to coach and operate our team. And despite our best efforts working with LS to try to come to terms and see eye to eye on how that should work, we are unable to make that actually happen.
I think it's important to note that all players, coaches and management were aware of these issues and frustrations, and our mutual efforts to try to resolve them over the last several weeks. Unfortunately, as time went on, it was really clear that we were unable to find a resolution and come together on figuring out this problem and we decided that it was important that we make a change and release LS at that point so we could move forward and focus on the future.
Why would You want to use systems in a game like league? This isnt counterstrike. You should adapt because beating Koreans at standard drafting is the definition of insanity. Same mistake over and over again.
Seems like C9 doesn't like coaches having the balls to promote fundamentally correct gameplay at the expense of the opinion of upper management. Don't think Max or Veigar would mindlessly pick these dog drafts. Something even worse than Regi at TSM has to be happening at C9.
@@Gurpreet-sv5zg based on them going 0-3 twice in playoffs and placing 4th after dominating most of spring split. They could not change how they played, which is terrible for any bo# format
Summit needs to drop the ego and play Ornn, idk if he thinks he’s better than everyone else but he’s got a champion puddle and is a detriment to his team
He has a few champions he plays at an insane level but that isn't to say he can't play anything else. He can play orn to an equal level to anyone else in the lcs but I think he has this idea that he has to win his lane every game maybe because when he plays weakside in scrims his team doesn't get significant enough advantages. I do feel C9 is failing to draft and execute towards other parts of the map mainly bot side but yeah he does need to just play weakside top sometimes and stop playing renekton. Idk if he is the 1 calling for the pick but if he is he needs to stop. Just ur opinion from a d4 scrub tho.
@@devonmantle6127 have you seen his champion history in his entire pro career? Same shit for the entire time, ofc I don’t know the inside info but from the outside he seems stubborn af that he won’t even try to play a less carry oriented style, especially when he’s not performing great. Also I’m not D4 if u we’re calling me that
If player’s egos weren’t so big and they weren’t lazy, NA might have a decent chance of not being a wildcard region at this point. I think this split between TSM falling apart and C9 being so scrutinized because the community sees the terrible drafting and the constant head bashing, but knows that if the players just try innovation, there might actually be progress.
things have to be really bad if V2 came on LS live stream to talk to LS about wtf is happening..C9 is favoring the players choices just because they play the game at a higher level instead of the coaches who even though are not at a high level makes up for it by studying the game and its match ups
I mean ls is actually kinda very good, i remember he was at least masters on kr not long ago, and his view of the game is very good esp for pro play, even though as adrian said he thinks of the game as if everyone should play perfect, which is why his picks are only good with the best of even the pros
@@samuelallard141 i wish LS would inplement his system with a weaker team.(like bbq) bc even if his system worked w c9. Ppl qould just say, they were pretty good to begin with. But if his systems brings clg tsm imt to top 5 top 6. It could potentially revamp how we think abt the game aa a region. (This route takes much more effort n risk)
@@Youknow6969able Well I think the idea was to make C9 a team that could compete on an international level by abusing the problems in draft and macro that many eastern teams have. So, I liked this approach because if he was on a bottom team and they did poorly because of the roster then his ideas would be blamed which is what happens when people see BBQ's record. Though I guess going on a top team like C9 ended up to be wasteful because he got kicked before they even made it to an international stage.
@@tristan9565 do people look at bbqs record n blame LS?? That doesnt even make sense. He objectively made them a better team... like do those people know what bbqs record looked like b4 mark n LS joined? This cant be serious lol.
I don’t blame either Veigar or Max cuz they are really good at what they are doing but they don’t want to lose their jobs since I dunno where else Max would fetch him as good pay as in C9. The same goes for Veigar. It’s this weird fucking Scrooge Mcduck kind of mentality that we need to make as much money as physically as possible but we don’t want to win(?) I really don’t understand The Management. Not only in C9 but in LoL pro play as a whole.
Big issue is that its a team game and on the competitive level an org game. The few people that try will always be surrounded by tons of people just coasting by or holding on to their job through seniority. So actually trying anything will either do nothing or get you to lose your job. When franchising allowed new teams to join the LCS a few of them instantly fell off a cliff and only 100t managed to actually become a real org instead of CLG 3,4 and 5. If we still had relegations then a competent coach could lead his own team into the league on skill alone. But as it stands everyone is at the mercy of people who are silver to gold or havent even played the game at all.
Yeah, a lot of orgs have management problems. TSM has Regi. G2 has whatever that dudes name is, FNC is rotting from the inside, and apparently C9 is too. What it boils down to is that the people in leadership positions are actually terrible at leading.
@@iwantlee9510 I don’t think it’s that. Rather, it’s the fact that they want to have as much money as physically possible. I don’t understand why they “don’t want to win”. Like it boggles my mind that someone like Summit would rather play his comfort picks and lose than play a fucking tank or some shit and win some fucking games. I feel like we are actually seeing a bunch of people play children’s game. LIKE ACTUALLY. Cuz people who play fucking RTS know what means “get and edge over your opponent”.
@@iwantlee9510 G2? Their management is actually really good, it's just that a lot of people dislike ocelote. Caps and Jankos wouldn't be there for that long if it was otherwise.
The team was made in ls vision. I assume he had a way to summit and his whole team. C9 made summit a big target by making him the carry of the team (no offense to fudge). C9 did not adapt through the whole series and had bad drafts. Sad but eg deserve the win.
I honestly believe LS made everyone (except fudge, and even he looked very good on irelia mid) look like the carries of the team. Blubber on psychopath champions (olaf gwen) looked legit cracked with his steroid enchanter support. Berserker was literally considered the god of botlane at the start and looked insanely strong. And even though summit didn t have a big spotlight he literally drew 3 4 people all the time to top and still managed to perform very well. Im pretty sure given enough time LS might actually have made everyone in the team shine at moments and made them hard af to dismantle since every piece was good given a good idea.
@@ZergMeTaSWORM I think that’s what ls was trying to do. C9 did not see the same vision as Ls. C9 didn’t do too bad 4th place is okay but a rebuilding phase. Though I think ls knew he could take them to a spring title and a strong performance in Msi.
I'm not surprised by any of this sadly. When I see the reactions of pros to simple min maxing and item optimization, I knew this game would never evolve.
I mean both Max and Veigar seem to hate the drafts but yet the same shit keeps appearing over and over so yea it seems like players just don't gaf and play what they wanna play and coaches have no say.
i mean if theres something wrong with making players play specific comps i think NA should just shutdown as a region as they keep wanting to encourage shit egos
We lowkey getting the reason...Blaber and Summit were stubborn about LS making them play champs outside of their comfort zone and Blaber being the golden child and summit being the import darling the org sided with them over LS
@@SimplyNexy True, but he had also said his opinion of blaber had changed from what it was prior and that he was better to work with than anticipated. Makes me think it wasn't really Blaber.
Don't forget Zeus also played it into Kiin Ornn incase people want to make excuses of player level match up. People should watch how Oner plays for Zeus Jayce compared to how Blaber plays for Summit Jayce. One full clears as Lee Sin and tries to gank for a corki mid that is down 20cs whereas the other is abandoning an optimal clear and a late back to counter gank for jayce and look to dive Ornn when he is low.
@@Gurpreet-sv5zg zeus is probably the best jayce in the world too, because for some reason theres not a real jayce kr/chinese otp (of my knowledge, and i searched real hard for som1 to watch play)
I’m still sad that i can’t see LS as a headcoach leading a team to success for once. I know he can do it, and even if he failed some how, it would still be many many interesting team comps. And i can’t believe he wasted his chance on f*cking C9. Now he is so sick about being a coach that he won’t do it anymore.
Did ls delete the video he costream with doublelife and jensen relating c9 vs eg. I was watching it half way through then left for some work. Now i came back and it is gone. Can anyone tell me why or did he explained why was it deleted ?
I was watching it too and it got deleted, my guess is that the thumbnail and the Title were a little bit too bold with the ' C9 regrets firing LS' thing and he was going to get in trouble
Can someone in the comments explain to me why people think that C9 wasn't willing to share LS vision for the game when they let him build the team and staff and have consulted him for years before this?
Also lets keep this respectful and I want to get more in depth than just they kicked him. Like I'd really like to get in depth on the topic in a productive way
c9 doesnt like this guy but goes on with his plan cuz he will give them a great roster. after building the roster and gets good results, kick the guy out because they dont like him. the fact that ls got kicked 2 weeks after coaching means they dont share the same vision, c9 was only using him to get a good roster
At this point I hope C9 falls off. they have to come to terms that their new roster is going to be inconsistent, LS isn’t coming back, and their “systems” won’t get them any further than they have.
LS cites solo Que as examples of what is op or not, but pro play and solo Que don’t mesh. Ivern is not one of the best mid laners and Udyr isn’t broken, just because he had good experiences doesn’t mean they are S tier, doesn’t make them bad, but they aren’t as good as he is claiming
The way Veigar was talking, it sounded like he was not in the room during the downtime between games. Why is that a thing? As a strategic coach he should be in the room to tell the players and head coach what happened during the game and offer insight into the other team.
I find it funny that analysts and pro players look at lane matchups as rock paper scissors where one beat another beats another beats the latter. It is things like this that frustrate me. The reasoning is silly because while in one v one sports this is a very correct assessment of who wins, in team sports what matters more than anything else is can the champion function within the overall 5 man comp and can the 5 man comp have autonomy on proceedings in the game. Imagine if a team in basketball drafted 5 players based on the fact those players were good counters to other players on the better teams. There is no cohesion, there is not real planning done in draft and in game there is routine that has no logic towards it. Every game is treated the same with the exact same game plan being done regardless of comp. The fact that in C9s three games they got to soul point every time and even got soul in the first game goes to show that both teams have a routine that they stick too and irregardless of what has happened they will follow that routine till kingdom come. C9 have legitimately not improved from the week LS left, they stack drakes which was the very first LS strat but we all know you can't just drake stack every game, there should be alternatives. Every team should have multiple ways of winning, it's a team sport and there are 5 members and as such if one of them gets a lead there should be a logical deduction of the best way to carry that lead to victory. The issue is if you pick Renekton, Lee Sin, Lucian, Leona, Nautilus, Volibear, Sylas, Ahri and all these other sinner champs then you either one through running straight at the enemy as many times as possible collecting drakes and barons on the way there or you don't win. That is the issue, we complain about this team not knowing what to do yet we have legitimate pro teams unable to actually find alternate methods of victory. Even the concept of Split push being dead is rather laughable, because if the enemy drafts Gwen for example who is a primary controller of space in teamfights, the best alternative is to just pick Fiora and deny the 5v5, so long as you can get a tier 2 early which is very possible since rift is free due to the other team using Gwen to stack drakes. Split Push is a strat that requires intelligent communication on the split push team, yet again we don't see it because Pro Players won't experiment and then there's the notion pro players can't play or know how to play more than 4/5 champs. You are a Pro Player, you are one of the best players in your region and you play 5 champions constantly. There are one tricks with deeper champ pools than you since they need at least one each role autofill. I mean honestly, two tricking and 3 tricking champs instead of legitemately learning champions from different classes and seeing what classes answer what types of comps. Now I believe that there is some room for things to not be so easy, this is still a young sport. The majority of players are kids but again the excuse we hear that players lose skill or mechanics playing new champs.. it's like so disgusting to even conceive that because if your mechanics are not so good that you can't play multiple champs then what makes you think you can come close to playing one of those mechanically intensive champs to an excellent degree. I also don't understand why people seem to just be unable to try something different, especially NA who cannot compete internationally. As a region with this champions queue it's not clear that they're complaints about Ping was a bunch a bul$@*$# and that riot games more than anything has been babying them to succeed. So they won't innovate, they won't work hard, what else is left but absolutely mediocrity on top of the fact the region expects to compete internationally, any time an NA team wins against the other 4 regions (including vietnam) I believe it is an upset.
What went wrong with C9? Answer: kicking LS out It's simple as that, they had too many questionable drafts after he left which was the reason they lost. Like it or not, this is why NA never wins anything cause they had the ONE guy who has s*** on NA for awhile now cause of bad drafts and decided to fix it himself. C9 got that chance and they ruined it.
@@Gurpreet-sv5zg people still buy into this tired narrative. Its insane, NAs chance of winning is slim to none... simply bc they will always have 1-2 players on the team that performs below the best. Its like playing soloq and you have 3 challenger 2 masters vs 5 challenger. That is essentially whats happening. Theres a fakegod on every NA team when compared to the east. Its that simple. No system in place is gonna change that, the new system should be geared towards new talents, not training old dogs who are stuck in their ways. (Kinda just regurgitating DLs interview w joe marsh/LS )
I don't understand how NOBODY has thought of doing something new, practicing it in scrims then destroying the opponents who are clueless the entire game on what their team does. Won''t last a long time but it forces the meta to change as well so it's a win-win.
LS understands variance is key. You cant have 160 champs in the game and only use 70ish of them... Looking at you RIOT and every western team. PLAY THE WEIRDCHAMP and put your opp in a constant state of disarray. Suprise is the warriors greatest weapon. This is the WESTS only way to beat internation competition. Draft for the wombo combo and scaling with weird champ synergies.
Top, I´d think? If its played well, you can either get free farm cause you get left alone or the enemy Jgl focuses on topside and you can play through bot and still have Karthus as a viable source of damage I mean berserker didnt have a fun time in his Karthus game but he was still decent Of course you shouldnt pick it in a away that you could get counterpicked to force the "free farm or jungler bait" situation Im not even playing league, so dont take this take too seriously, but in theory it might work?
No. There are better ways to execute the draft even with limited champion pools. Some of their drafts have been next level bad, with them blind picking all their champions for no reason. That’s not on champion pool
@@asersingularity4229 listen man it's literally all we got out of veigar and we would get a similar response from Max. Ultimately the players are deciding
I'm not sure what you mean by they don't have the champ pool. I hope you mean they don't have the mindset to learn new champs or they even refuse to change their champ pool. Big difference than they are mechanically unable to play or understand certain champs
@@origon4477 i dont think thats true in regards to Isles, Fudge and Berserker (questionable though). I can see that for Blaber and Summit. In regards to Veigars Syndra comment, I think thats a champ you cant just first time or even 10th time.
Someone in the chat wrote ls go g2. How delusional do you have to be thinking ls would be better than dilan falco. Just think about how good his drafts have been for both g2 and schalke back in the day, and I think that ls would clash with some personalities on g2 esports
IMO blaber has to go. People don’t notice it because he’s an mvp lvl jg and he has good score lines. But he plays too selfishly for C9. Over different C9 rosters one thing has been constant. Mid always loses a lot of prio because they’re almost forced to play into blabers game. He doesn’t equalize bad match ups and when a play is made on one side of the map he is never making a counter play next side. He’s usually just off securing his jg lead and that’s bullshit and not worth in a player because balls to the wall he is not carrying. Blaber Carries when his laners can do their thing but at that point you don’t need a carry jg. Where as when his laners suck he just clears over and over and does the minimal until they slowly bleed out. Which is why C9’s play style has to always be so feast or famine. The team tries to play towards blabers strengths but their not worth ignoring the over all team weaknesses. We saw it with nisqy who played all into blaber then we saw it with perks and what happened? It worked after perkz adapted the roaming mid style. Look at fudge though he’s new to the lane. He doesn’t roam and only farms and it’s apparent because of this. Their mid game mid jg pressure is almost always non existent until summit creates a lead for them to play into or for not to set up a good drag or herald fight. Either way fudge should be booted for a REAL mid laner for now or blaber needs to fvcking go. He can go Olaf carry somewhere else or they can bring back LS who noticed this and loaded his team with supports to play into blabbers style thus making him look like the. 1v9 god he can be
I think thats because thats how LS and Malice encouraged him to play except he's playing Lee sin and voli not karthus, udyr, or heca. Though I dont know who you could replace blaber with. I doubt you would be able to import a jungle as good as him, and I dont think malice would be as good either. I think malice just has a better champ pool. I do think blabers champ pool is a really big problem though, but I think he's also the best jungle in LCS considering how he played in regular season. Though he is probably the worst jungle when it comes to playing from behind and finding picks to get back in the game or stabilizing the game out of the top 3. Granted I dont think C9 ever needed to know how to play from behind and stabilize games until the last like 3 weeks.
I swear veigar was trying not to shit into someone/everyone this interview so hard. So sad his talent is being used only on avademy, C9 should rethink their coaching staff if they want to stay with this team...
They can't win on normal drafting maybe coz of language diff and LS knows thats why he drafts easy team comp that plays around team fights so they can see what's going on.
Is not Veigarv2 the guy that got fired from fnatic years ago for ddosing ppl in high elo? Hahaha I remember that PSZ make a post in Twitter or something.
I hope someday someone who has actual game knowledge can confront LS about his ideas on the meta and on how the game is played overall. Here it just feels like V2 is just thinking to himself "I'd put somebody from my team in a drama if I explain why we can't do this or that" so he just understandably holds back. Only time I recall someone did confront him it was Caedrel about Renekton and for months people kept thinking of this as a drama and made some kinf of narrative about them hating each other because of that disagreement and in the end the debate itself became less relevant to most people than the drama. So it feels like anyone that has the credibility to back up LS' ideas is also someone that is working for a big org, either a team or even Riot themselves, that doesn't want any link with LS because they don't want it to become a drama Because honestly everytime LS has a take on the meta, it feels like something he has came up with all alone and that the only ppl backing it up are his community of silvers that agrees with him without understanding a quarter of the whole thought process that has to be made before saying this or that is viable, it just looks like a big circlejerk from the outside, which doesn't mean his ideas are wrong, but him being the only person with some kind of credibility to promote his ideas makes them actually hard to accept as good ideas for most people. Him getting to coach a team with decent players that accepted to play the game the way he wants to could also be a good way for him to showcase his ideas, but with the way the C9 thing ended I doubt it's happening anytime soon
I don't get why LS second guesses every single thing C9 does when he literally could be making every decision they make if he didn't have to quit because teams are hard
Why is Summit being blamed for terrible picks in other lanes? It’s one thing to want pick comfort champs for himself because he feels like he’s playing a 1v9 game but how much influence could he have in every lane? Sure his pick too will shape the draft but some of these picks have been…. Holy shit. Just awful and nonsensical.
I would assume from other players perspective like Berserker - why would I not my pick as well, if this guys gets to pick what he wants. The problem lies in letting any of the players pick things, when they don't make sense in teams draft strategy overall, especially when the players have dogshit draft understanding on the roster, or have champ pool issues.
Because noobs want to blame an outsider. Summit carried C9 when they were doing well. He is an import who joined because LS convinced him to. And somehow people actually think he has the kind of influence to force LS out. As opposed to Blaber and Fudge?
You'll find it's painstakingly unmistakable that V2 doesn't actually get to have a say in anything that goes on in regards to the talked about aspects.
Adding to what everyone else is saying. He’s coaching remotely I’m pretty sure. It’s sooo hard to actually have impact on game day if ur not there in person
People who watched LS from back when he was hardcore GRF fan and T1 disser to now know how much of a drama queen he can be. Talk fast and loose. Occasionally sounds smart but with little to actually show for it. Any 'evidence' is basically in hindsight for him when he has nothing to lose.
The thing ls always forgets about Lee even if his stats are bad is that his kit is good. Good clear, shields a lot of dashes and escapes and a really good playmaking ult for example oner would not be able to preform the way he does if it was on xin since xin doesnt allow him to do some crazy combo to win the game
@@cahn2003 Not as hard as Lee Sin. When Oner is one Lee Sin it's literally 1v9. Same as Viego. On Xin he is great but it's very dependent on his team to set him up. Guy even react faster than chovy.
ok people let me explain a few things. One coaches in na are not the same as kr. in Korea there respect by players so if they tell them to play a champion they do it if they lose draft the coach takes the blame. in na they say hey guys this x champ is op here and the players decided if they want to play. Two orn is broken in na but not in kr or lpl.what does that mean if na picks orn there gonna get shit on so hard and go back to meta. na has the worst players worst meta worst macro.why when they come back from msi or worlds there super hype to improve then they secured there spot and go back to 1v1 dont solo or champion q and wonder why they lose. Three get fudge out of c9 I been a c9 fan since lemonation I been there highs lows but something about this roster dosent feel right I dont like fudge top or mid why because if he goes against any other mid he just lays down and die expect to be carried by berserk or summit . Summit made it clear he wants out .
Yes that is why it is hilarious C9 fans actually think it is Summit who forced LS out. It is one of the resident C9 players not some new import who joined only because LS convinced him to. LOL.
Veigar blink twice if your being held at gunpoint
Holy... Imagine. We would be seeing Rengar - Ivern combo in pro play right now. Instead of a 0/7 Renekton blind pick
Sometimes I wonder if people like you arent actually just NPCs.
@@ensiemen9836 Care to elaborate?
Renekton is good champ copium
@@dimitriostsiampalis364 I've seen people like him a lot, probably a kid in its edgy phase thinking he's smarter than everyone and looking at life as a videogame while still thinking he's smarter than everyone lol
@@ensiemen9836 Sometimes I wonder if people like you arent actually just NPCs.
V2 sounds like he is going to go get wasted after the interview is over. This is so sad...
well yeah, its obvious at the very least that he wants the draft to go a whole lot differently.
@biwabiwa that sneaky monthly income...
@biwabiwa their sad pride
@biwabiwa well veigarv2 is literally in Europe and has literally no say in their drafts. He probably talks to the players about drafts and maybe champs to practice in soloq but is just another analyst that doesnt really have alot to say. The fact that you can still buy coaching from him if im not mistaken and the fact that he has a patreon where he shares thoughts on champs should prove his opinion is not what people see in drafts.
@@doctordumbass9425 Nothing "sneaky" about wanting to keep your job. Not everyone can fall back on something like LS with his streaming immediately.
“I fear not the man who has practiced 10,000 kicks once, but I fear the man who has practiced one kick 10,000 times.” -Bruce Lee, on why his ult makes him a B1 pick
Why go into a fight with learning how to kick, if you can go into a fight learning to shoot a gun. Is sorta the point here.
LS understands variance is key. You cant have 160 champs in the game and only use 70ish of them... Looking at you RIOT and every western team. PLAY THE WEIRDCHAMP and put your opp in a constant state of disarray. Suprise is the warriors greatest weapon. This is the WESTS only way to beat internation competition. Draft for the wombo combo and scaling with weird champ synergies.
I feel like this interview just further serves to highlight the reason this team (built by LS) would have thrived, and without his backbone in the coaching position and forcing these players into uncomfortable situations and scenarios in draft and in game to grow, they would have never succeeded internationally.
We will never know if it would have thrived. That is pure speculation. It does appear that the team is ran not by a coach but by the players. If that is indeed the case we will see a futher slide into the dirt. The only player I would consider listening to is Blabber. Everyone else is too green with no success to draw on or still learning his new role.
Backbone is the keyword here
They'll never succeed internationally any way. At least it wouldn't have been boring with LS and they could've done something internationally.
@@lordhawkeye dude Blaber is legit the worst on that team xD
@@Andre_7771 yep when I read that dudes comment almost spat out my coffee in laughter
Sooooo, coaching staff can't force players to play comps they don't want to practice. Then what's the point of having a coach?
To pretend like something is happening so the braindead fans stick around.
So they can cheer for players with ego
So they can wear cool suits on stage!
or in Max's case just really wrinkly button up shirts
Well LS would actually flame the players for being dumb, which is why C9 kicked him (presumably). Seems like they would rather have their systems let the players draft like this and get swept two times in a row.
In c9 week 2 behind the scene, LS tells Summit to first time malphite and they win the game from that Giga pick. Max and V2 can have the same philosophy as LS on the game, but you can tell they don’t have the confidence to tell the players shut their excuses and just pick nasus support.
It is so painfully obvious Veigar is trying not to shit on Summit choice of draft so hard.
last time I checked C9 has a draft coach on stage named Max Waldo... how is it "Summit's draft"?
@@Evan2768 I assume you haven’t kept up with what the community has been saying for the past weeks. Summit likely has more say in top picks for several reasons, including higher age than Max (Korean culture) and C9 management being more on the side of players than coaches. These are not verified of course but these are logical hypotheses given that Max and other coaches have voiced (in one platform or another) that their drafts are horrible, but it seems that they cannot seem to change it.
@@Evan2768 evan u don’t understand how these teams operate.
@@Evan2768 week 2 when they lose against TL, they hoover GP but somehow they change it to Aatrox which doesn't make any sense if you know LS.
Then a few weeks ago LS said in his stream "you need to compromise to the players.."
wow a coach sadly cant do anything about a player picking a shit champion then
It sounds like once LS got kicked Summit just ran over the team
Well he was put C9 on his back on the regular season, so it makes sense that he has the biggest say
@@hubertgiang4591 it really doesn't since he isn't the coach, max waldo is
@@eeeflaco24 Lax Laldo?
@@eeeflaco24 you think faker doesn’t have major influence? Yes players can really have power
@@hubertgiang4591 that doesn’t make any sense. Biggest “say” among the players I can grant, but above all the staff too… yeah idk about that one chief. Seems this is the system that Jack is okay with
Now we know why LS got kicked lmao. If you ask me, this bullshit org/coaching team didn't want to deal with him serving them cold hard truths and not allowing C9 to dwell within stagnation, so someone bitched about it and got him removed as a coach. Karma's a thing though so the skeleton's in their closets finally came out in full effect and inevitably resulted in their downfall.
Getting removed right before a game without realizing it definitely implies more things. But nonetheless this is a sad fall from what was one of the most exciting teams in preseason
It's most likely Summit who didn't buy in fully to LS' ideas and bitched out to management.
It's quite obvious that he's wanted to be the hero.
@@theemms5288 reminder that Summit is the same guy who was making fun of Faker crying in 2017 Worlds along with LSB 2021 except Effort, dude sounds like an absolute bitch to everyone he doesn't favor off-game.
@@theemms5288 That doesn't even make sense since LS convinced Summit and Berzerker to join. Summit as a new player also will not have much say. He also hardcore carried C9 through when the team was actually doing well. The more obvious and logical player who has that kind of pull is either Blaber or Fudge. Just look at Fudge sitting there in Game 2 doing nothing to give away a free Penta to Danny (who did not even want that Penta). Shows you which players are actually professional.
@@inconvenientfacts58Yea I agree, idk what that take was. Korea 9 only came to realisation BECAUSE of LS’s Korean ties and existing relationships with its player base.
It really feels like summit isn’t willing to play what his team needs him to play. He could’ve played the Orn or GP like against GG, but opted into to the Camille. Yamato said similar things when he was on sandbox that it was very difficult to get summit to play certain things. In the fudge interview with dgon he said similar things that summit has major problems that need to be worked on. I really feel like if summit doesn’t get his shit together you just drop him, move fudge back to top, and get someone like Jensen to be your midlaner. I really hope this is the biggest wake up call for summit, but I not confident at all.
Jensen isn’t coming back
From what I remember the Yamato story was that he was talking with some analyst about builds and was shown math about Trinity Force being better than cleaver on gnar. He then asked Summit to try it and he refused because "Khan and Nuguri weren't building it".
@@Sup4Hippo what a child
Drafting GP does not change the dynamic of the game or the lane state at all. The reality is no one C9 can generate pressure across the map. Blaber is busy full clearing as a lee sin while ganking for a losing mid lane who still got giga diff after the numerous ganks thrown on him. Fudge is PVE in mid while Jojo is perm roaming. C9 bot just hand shake the lane and end up not doing much in team fights. The best bet is to put Fudge support and have Jensen mid. This will give Blaber two winning lanes he can look to invade off and make plays and a mid that has a champion pool.
@@Gurpreet-sv5zg 🤡
Those systems in C9 really working wonders
Cloud9 for years has developed systems on how we like to coach and operate our team. And despite our best efforts working with LS to try to come to terms and see eye to eye on how that should work, we are unable to make that actually happen.
I think it's important to note that all players, coaches and management were aware of these issues and frustrations, and our mutual efforts to try to resolve them over the last several weeks. Unfortunately, as time went on, it was really clear that we were unable to find a resolution and come together on figuring out this problem and we decided that it was important that we make a change and release LS at that point so we could move forward and focus on the future.
GET LOST
WE WANT C9 TO WIN
@@TheRogueSentinel but doesnt look like c9 want to win
Ugh disgusting
Why would You want to use systems in a game like league? This isnt counterstrike. You should adapt because beating Koreans at standard drafting is the definition of insanity. Same mistake over and over again.
Getting paid obnoxious amounts of money to say "this is hard to play. We will not learn. 0-6 in worlds is good enough for us after all"
this is awkward af but I'm happy to hear it. I think a lot is being said without saying it.
LS, you might wanna blur out chat at 3:48.
Don't want you getting hit by RUclips.
jesus christ these heathens i swear. People like him have brain damage.
ooooh baby that's kinda... damn...
Jesus Christ
lmao
Hahaha what a legend
When LS was coaching the main threat on c9 was the jungler and support for me and it was amazing imo.
Seems like C9 doesn't like coaches having the balls to promote fundamentally correct gameplay at the expense of the opinion of upper management. Don't think Max or Veigar would mindlessly pick these dog drafts. Something even worse than Regi at TSM has to be happening at C9.
Fundamentally correct game play? Based on what?
@@Gurpreet-sv5zg based on them going 0-3 twice in playoffs and placing 4th after dominating most of spring split. They could not change how they played, which is terrible for any bo# format
@@Gurpreet-sv5zg its pretty hard to find conversations that LS has where the guy he speaks to doesn't end up mostly agreeing with LS
Summit needs to drop the ego and play Ornn, idk if he thinks he’s better than everyone else but he’s got a champion puddle and is a detriment to his team
its not even that, his champ puddle is straight ass with a few exceptions.
He has a few champions he plays at an insane level but that isn't to say he can't play anything else. He can play orn to an equal level to anyone else in the lcs but I think he has this idea that he has to win his lane every game maybe because when he plays weakside in scrims his team doesn't get significant enough advantages. I do feel C9 is failing to draft and execute towards other parts of the map mainly bot side but yeah he does need to just play weakside top sometimes and stop playing renekton. Idk if he is the 1 calling for the pick but if he is he needs to stop. Just ur opinion from a d4 scrub tho.
@@mankdemes8887 gnar aatrox renekton is the worst puddle you can have
I had some doubts about bb on tanks and weakside but seriously compare bb to summit man will play anything carry tanks whatever is good
@@devonmantle6127 have you seen his champion history in his entire pro career? Same shit for the entire time, ofc I don’t know the inside info but from the outside he seems stubborn af that he won’t even try to play a less carry oriented style, especially when he’s not performing great. Also I’m not D4 if u we’re calling me that
If player’s egos weren’t so big and they weren’t lazy, NA might have a decent chance of not being a wildcard region at this point. I think this split between TSM falling apart and C9 being so scrutinized because the community sees the terrible drafting and the constant head bashing, but knows that if the players just try innovation, there might actually be progress.
things have to be really bad if V2 came on LS live stream to talk to LS about wtf is happening..C9 is favoring the players choices just because they play the game at a higher level instead of the coaches who even though are not at a high level makes up for it by studying the game and its match ups
I mean ls is actually kinda very good, i remember he was at least masters on kr not long ago, and his view of the game is very good esp for pro play, even though as adrian said he thinks of the game as if everyone should play perfect, which is why his picks are only good with the best of even the pros
@@samuelallard141 i wish LS would inplement his system with a weaker team.(like bbq) bc even if his system worked w c9. Ppl qould just say, they were pretty good to begin with. But if his systems brings clg tsm imt to top 5 top 6. It could potentially revamp how we think abt the game aa a region. (This route takes much more effort n risk)
@@Youknow6969able Well I think the idea was to make C9 a team that could compete on an international level by abusing the problems in draft and macro that many eastern teams have. So, I liked this approach because if he was on a bottom team and they did poorly because of the roster then his ideas would be blamed which is what happens when people see BBQ's record. Though I guess going on a top team like C9 ended up to be wasteful because he got kicked before they even made it to an international stage.
@@tristan9565 do people look at bbqs record n blame LS?? That doesnt even make sense. He objectively made them a better team... like do those people know what bbqs record looked like b4 mark n LS joined? This cant be serious lol.
Veigar: if i speak i am in big trouble
them opening zeri but not countering it with Susan is a big SIN
I don’t blame either Veigar or Max cuz they are really good at what they are doing but they don’t want to lose their jobs since I dunno where else Max would fetch him as good pay as in C9. The same goes for Veigar.
It’s this weird fucking Scrooge Mcduck kind of mentality that we need to make as much money as physically as possible but we don’t want to win(?)
I really don’t understand The Management. Not only in C9 but in LoL pro play as a whole.
Big issue is that its a team game and on the competitive level an org game.
The few people that try will always be surrounded by tons of people just coasting by or holding on to their job through seniority.
So actually trying anything will either do nothing or get you to lose your job.
When franchising allowed new teams to join the LCS a few of them instantly fell off a cliff and only 100t managed to actually become a real org instead of CLG 3,4 and 5.
If we still had relegations then a competent coach could lead his own team into the league on skill alone. But as it stands everyone is at the mercy of people who are silver to gold or havent even played the game at all.
Yeah, a lot of orgs have management problems. TSM has Regi. G2 has whatever that dudes name is, FNC is rotting from the inside, and apparently C9 is too. What it boils down to is that the people in leadership positions are actually terrible at leading.
@@iwantlee9510 I don’t think it’s that. Rather, it’s the fact that they want to have as much money as physically possible. I don’t understand why they “don’t want to win”. Like it boggles my mind that someone like Summit would rather play his comfort picks and lose than play a fucking tank or some shit and win some fucking games.
I feel like we are actually seeing a bunch of people play children’s game. LIKE ACTUALLY. Cuz people who play fucking RTS know what means “get and edge over your opponent”.
@@iwantlee9510 G2? Their management is actually really good, it's just that a lot of people dislike ocelote. Caps and Jankos wouldn't be there for that long if it was otherwise.
Props to veigar to do this interview
The team was made in ls vision. I assume he had a way to summit and his whole team. C9 made summit a big target by making him the carry of the team (no offense to fudge). C9 did not adapt through the whole series and had bad drafts. Sad but eg deserve the win.
eg outdrafted and outplayed c9
I honestly believe LS made everyone (except fudge, and even he looked very good on irelia mid) look like the carries of the team. Blubber on psychopath champions (olaf gwen) looked legit cracked with his steroid enchanter support. Berserker was literally considered the god of botlane at the start and looked insanely strong. And even though summit didn t have a big spotlight he literally drew 3 4 people all the time to top and still managed to perform very well. Im pretty sure given enough time LS might actually have made everyone in the team shine at moments and made them hard af to dismantle since every piece was good given a good idea.
@@ZergMeTaSWORM I think that’s what ls was trying to do. C9 did not see the same vision as Ls. C9 didn’t do too bad 4th place is okay but a rebuilding phase. Though I think ls knew he could take them to a spring title and a strong performance in Msi.
I'm not surprised by any of this sadly. When I see the reactions of pros to simple min maxing and item optimization, I knew this game would never evolve.
LS acting like he doesn't know why there hasn't been Ivern mid in the last 8 weeks 😅😅😅
I mean, he absolutely knows why, he just doesn’t think any of those reasons is actually valid.
5:49 "FAKE NEWS" -CRABER
Feeling so sad for Veigarv2 tbf
It legit sounds like he agrees with ls 100%, but he just accepted that he cant change anything just like LS couldnt.
I mean both Max and Veigar seem to hate the drafts but yet the same shit keeps appearing over and over so yea it seems like players just don't gaf and play what they wanna play and coaches have no say.
LS pushed for change and got fired, so now Max and VeigarV2 probably don't want to risk their jobs so they leave the players to draft like this.
i mean if theres something wrong with making players play specific comps i think NA should just shutdown as a region as they keep wanting to encourage shit egos
We lowkey getting the reason...Blaber and Summit were stubborn about LS making them play champs outside of their comfort zone and Blaber being the golden child and summit being the import darling the org sided with them over LS
Idk about Blaber. LS spoke highly of him after he got removed.
@@joshuabryant9845 LS always speaks highly of people he value the skill of, even when then backstab him
@@SimplyNexy that’s really true, which sometimes makes it hard to know who backstabs him XD
@@SimplyNexy True, but he had also said his opinion of blaber had changed from what it was prior and that he was better to work with than anticipated. Makes me think it wasn't really Blaber.
Since LS sacking, I’m confident in saying that Cloud 9 will never win Worlds
valid
0:53 Zeus’ jayce gapping doran on ornn 😎
Don't forget Zeus also played it into Kiin Ornn incase people want to make excuses of player level match up. People should watch how Oner plays for Zeus Jayce compared to how Blaber plays for Summit Jayce. One full clears as Lee Sin and tries to gank for a corki mid that is down 20cs whereas the other is abandoning an optimal clear and a late back to counter gank for jayce and look to dive Ornn when he is low.
@@Gurpreet-sv5zg zeus is probably the best jayce in the world too, because for some reason theres not a real jayce kr/chinese otp (of my knowledge, and i searched real hard for som1 to watch play)
The ending was savage xD
LS coaching the current coach of C9, WHAT A NICE GUY!
I’m still sad that i can’t see LS as a headcoach leading a team to success for once. I know he can do it, and even if he failed some how, it would still be many many interesting team comps. And i can’t believe he wasted his chance on f*cking C9. Now he is so sick about being a coach that he won’t do it anymore.
Supa Hot Crew overperformed massively under LS. I would call that a successful coaching stint.
@@ballakobe24 it was a long time ago and a lot of people dont know about it
The Church was closed for spring on Easter.
drafts don't matter, runes don't matter, items don't matter, only gameplay matters GIGACHAD
I felt like this video should have been done post-season or sometime more appropriate when veigarv2 could be more open.
Leave him alone he’s farming for the clips channel lol. A lot of the stuff he does these days seems geared towards it
They can just do it again
@@asersingularity4229 now say that without crying. You do know who veigar v2 is do you? You do know where he started from right?
3:53... sad he had to add that as a blocked term...
Did ls delete the video he costream with doublelife and jensen relating c9 vs eg. I was watching it half way through then left for some work. Now i came back and it is gone. Can anyone tell me why or did he explained why was it deleted ?
I was watching it too and it got deleted, my guess is that the thumbnail and the Title were a little bit too bold with the ' C9 regrets firing LS' thing and he was going to get in trouble
@@kusugu ah i see thank you.
He didn’t edit out the chat n word Sigma
Hey editor is it possible to put stream timestamp in the description or something like. From the stream of date x x x
Seems like c9 is going through the same fall from grace that tsm did
Sounds like the C9 board just values a yes man/pushover for a coach over challenging their players to improve
3:49 Ay yo?
8:36 I can only imagine who he could possibly be implying here 😒
veigar with the copium pr responses that he knows they drafted like dogshit but risks job so
Can someone in the comments explain to me why people think that C9 wasn't willing to share LS vision for the game when they let him build the team and staff and have consulted him for years before this?
Also lets keep this respectful and I want to get more in depth than just they kicked him. Like I'd really like to get in depth on the topic in a productive way
c9 doesnt like this guy but goes on with his plan cuz he will give them a great roster. after building the roster and gets good results, kick the guy out because they dont like him. the fact that ls got kicked 2 weeks after coaching means they dont share the same vision, c9 was only using him to get a good roster
At this point I hope C9 falls off. they have to come to terms that their new roster is going to be inconsistent, LS isn’t coming back, and their “systems” won’t get them any further than they have.
LS cites solo Que as examples of what is op or not, but pro play and solo Que don’t mesh. Ivern is not one of the best mid laners and Udyr isn’t broken, just because he had good experiences doesn’t mean they are S tier, doesn’t make them bad, but they aren’t as good as he is claiming
"LS & Veigar V2 Discuss What Went Wrong For Cloud9"
Firing LS.... Firing LS is where it went wrong for C9.
seems like hiring summit is where it went wrong
really think fudge mid is coming along well would be a shame if something happened to it
Man chat flaming veigarV2 wtf
The way Veigar was talking, it sounded like he was not in the room during the downtime between games. Why is that a thing? As a strategic coach he should be in the room to tell the players and head coach what happened during the game and offer insight into the other team.
He is on the other side of the world
he lives in EU lel
Sounds like Veigar not going to stay with C9
I find it funny that analysts and pro players look at lane matchups as rock paper scissors where one beat another beats another beats the latter. It is things like this that frustrate me. The reasoning is silly because while in one v one sports this is a very correct assessment of who wins, in team sports what matters more than anything else is can the champion function within the overall 5 man comp and can the 5 man comp have autonomy on proceedings in the game. Imagine if a team in basketball drafted 5 players based on the fact those players were good counters to other players on the better teams. There is no cohesion, there is not real planning done in draft and in game there is routine that has no logic towards it. Every game is treated the same with the exact same game plan being done regardless of comp. The fact that in C9s three games they got to soul point every time and even got soul in the first game goes to show that both teams have a routine that they stick too and irregardless of what has happened they will follow that routine till kingdom come. C9 have legitimately not improved from the week LS left, they stack drakes which was the very first LS strat but we all know you can't just drake stack every game, there should be alternatives. Every team should have multiple ways of winning, it's a team sport and there are 5 members and as such if one of them gets a lead there should be a logical deduction of the best way to carry that lead to victory. The issue is if you pick Renekton, Lee Sin, Lucian, Leona, Nautilus, Volibear, Sylas, Ahri and all these other sinner champs then you either one through running straight at the enemy as many times as possible collecting drakes and barons on the way there or you don't win. That is the issue, we complain about this team not knowing what to do yet we have legitimate pro teams unable to actually find alternate methods of victory. Even the concept of Split push being dead is rather laughable, because if the enemy drafts Gwen for example who is a primary controller of space in teamfights, the best alternative is to just pick Fiora and deny the 5v5, so long as you can get a tier 2 early which is very possible since rift is free due to the other team using Gwen to stack drakes. Split Push is a strat that requires intelligent communication on the split push team, yet again we don't see it because Pro Players won't experiment and then there's the notion pro players can't play or know how to play more than 4/5 champs. You are a Pro Player, you are one of the best players in your region and you play 5 champions constantly. There are one tricks with deeper champ pools than you since they need at least one each role autofill. I mean honestly, two tricking and 3 tricking champs instead of legitemately learning champions from different classes and seeing what classes answer what types of comps. Now I believe that there is some room for things to not be so easy, this is still a young sport. The majority of players are kids but again the excuse we hear that players lose skill or mechanics playing new champs.. it's like so disgusting to even conceive that because if your mechanics are not so good that you can't play multiple champs then what makes you think you can come close to playing one of those mechanically intensive champs to an excellent degree.
I also don't understand why people seem to just be unable to try something different, especially NA who cannot compete internationally. As a region with this champions queue it's not clear that they're complaints about Ping was a bunch a bul$@*$# and that riot games more than anything has been babying them to succeed. So they won't innovate, they won't work hard, what else is left but absolutely mediocrity on top of the fact the region expects to compete internationally, any time an NA team wins against the other 4 regions (including vietnam) I believe it is an upset.
What went wrong with C9?
Answer: kicking LS out
It's simple as that, they had too many questionable drafts after he left which was the reason they lost. Like it or not, this is why NA never wins anything cause they had the ONE guy who has s*** on NA for awhile now cause of bad drafts and decided to fix it himself. C9 got that chance and they ruined it.
NA will never win regardless. LEC tried the clown fiesta with a plethora of champs unique to meta and got face down ass up.
@@Gurpreet-sv5zg people still buy into this tired narrative. Its insane, NAs chance of winning is slim to none... simply bc they will always have 1-2 players on the team that performs below the best.
Its like playing soloq and you have 3 challenger 2 masters vs 5 challenger. That is essentially whats happening.
Theres a fakegod on every NA team when compared to the east. Its that simple. No system in place is gonna change that, the new system should be geared towards new talents, not training old dogs who are stuck in their ways. (Kinda just regurgitating DLs interview w joe marsh/LS )
@@Gurpreet-sv5zg g2 would have won worlds if they didn't play nerfed pyke mid and that's a fact
I don't understand how NOBODY has thought of doing something new, practicing it in scrims then destroying the opponents who are clueless the entire game on what their team does. Won''t last a long time but it forces the meta to change as well so it's a win-win.
LS understands variance is key. You cant have 160 champs in the game and only use 70ish of them... Looking at you RIOT and every western team. PLAY THE WEIRDCHAMP and put your opp in a constant state of disarray. Suprise is the warriors greatest weapon. This is the WESTS only way to beat internation competition. Draft for the wombo combo and scaling with weird champ synergies.
LS said karthua can be flexed 4 ways? I get jg, mid, adc, and then what... Support?
Top
Top, I´d think?
If its played well, you can either get free farm cause you get left alone or the enemy Jgl focuses on topside and you can play through bot and still have Karthus as a viable source of damage
I mean berserker didnt have a fun time in his Karthus game but he was still decent
Of course you shouldnt pick it in a away that you could get counterpicked to force the "free farm or jungler bait" situation
Im not even playing league, so dont take this take too seriously, but in theory it might work?
There's a Karthus top main on the Chinese super server who's around 1800 LP
@@rePAULsion Pretty sure after seeing them drafts the karthus top will get perma dived and C9 will be clueless how to prevent it
@@rePAULsion damn that's crazy do u know his name?
3:50 inf_heatn
3:54
Nobody:
Absolutely nobody:
Some white kid: 3:51
Basically what im gathering is: the players dont have the champ pool to execute good drafts so they do the best they can with what they have
No. There are better ways to execute the draft even with limited champion pools. Some of their drafts have been next level bad, with them blind picking all their champions for no reason. That’s not on champion pool
@@asersingularity4229 listen man it's literally all we got out of veigar and we would get a similar response from Max. Ultimately the players are deciding
I'm not sure what you mean by they don't have the champ pool. I hope you mean they don't have the mindset to learn new champs or they even refuse to change their champ pool. Big difference than they are mechanically unable to play or understand certain champs
@@origon4477 i dont think thats true in regards to Isles, Fudge and Berserker (questionable though). I can see that for Blaber and Summit. In regards to Veigars Syndra comment, I think thats a champ you cant just first time or even 10th time.
Coaching failure if during playoffs you still have shit champ pools tbh
If you cannot adapt and learn to play the game outside a narrow unchanging meta then you shouldn’t be a pro player
Just say it how it is LS, coaches got gapped in C9.
Corki was shitting on Viktor until trundle lend EG the game
Someone in the chat wrote ls go g2. How delusional do you have to be thinking ls would be better than dilan falco. Just think about how good his drafts have been for both g2 and schalke back in the day, and I think that ls would clash with some personalities on g2 esports
Play 1000 games of TF and then will just realize TF got banned, nice practice KEKW
IMO blaber has to go. People don’t notice it because he’s an mvp lvl jg and he has good score lines. But he plays too selfishly for C9. Over different C9 rosters one thing has been constant. Mid always loses a lot of prio because they’re almost forced to play into blabers game. He doesn’t equalize bad match ups and when a play is made on one side of the map he is never making a counter play next side. He’s usually just off securing his jg lead and that’s bullshit and not worth in a player because balls to the wall he is not carrying. Blaber Carries when his laners can do their thing but at that point you don’t need a carry jg. Where as when his laners suck he just clears over and over and does the minimal until they slowly bleed out. Which is why C9’s play style has to always be so feast or famine. The team tries to play towards blabers strengths but their not worth ignoring the over all team weaknesses. We saw it with nisqy who played all into blaber then we saw it with perks and what happened? It worked after perkz adapted the roaming mid style. Look at fudge though he’s new to the lane. He doesn’t roam and only farms and it’s apparent because of this. Their mid game mid jg pressure is almost always non existent until summit creates a lead for them to play into or for not to set up a good drag or herald fight. Either way fudge should be booted for a REAL mid laner for now or blaber needs to fvcking go. He can go Olaf carry somewhere else or they can bring back LS who noticed this and loaded his team with supports to play into blabbers style thus making him look like the. 1v9 god he can be
I think thats because thats how LS and Malice encouraged him to play except he's playing Lee sin and voli not karthus, udyr, or heca. Though I dont know who you could replace blaber with. I doubt you would be able to import a jungle as good as him, and I dont think malice would be as good either. I think malice just has a better champ pool. I do think blabers champ pool is a really big problem though, but I think he's also the best jungle in LCS considering how he played in regular season. Though he is probably the worst jungle when it comes to playing from behind and finding picks to get back in the game or stabilizing the game out of the top 3. Granted I dont think C9 ever needed to know how to play from behind and stabilize games until the last like 3 weeks.
imagine going from greatest team in the world with LS to losing to 100T and EG XD
I swear veigar was trying not to shit into someone/everyone this interview so hard. So sad his talent is being used only on avademy, C9 should rethink their coaching staff if they want to stay with this team...
Veigar is insanely wasted on an NA team. He's a great coach and insane player.
@@peperoni9757 i mean the fact that the best na minds arent even actually coaching is kinda amazing, NA stays a meme
Seems like they are walking a really tight rope here...
It was clear after C9 removed LS that C9 would be relying solely on individual player talent to win games. I guess talent only carries you so far
C9 systems= if it's broke don't fix it
what went wrong with c9?
i would say ls diff
They can't win on normal drafting maybe coz of language diff and LS knows thats why he drafts easy team comp that plays around team fights so they can see what's going on.
Is not Veigarv2 the guy that got fired from fnatic years ago for ddosing ppl in high elo? Hahaha I remember that PSZ make a post in Twitter or something.
That was jensen on SK Gaming, Back when he was Veigodx and Incarnati0n
I hope someday someone who has actual game knowledge can confront LS about his ideas on the meta and on how the game is played overall. Here it just feels like V2 is just thinking to himself "I'd put somebody from my team in a drama if I explain why we can't do this or that" so he just understandably holds back.
Only time I recall someone did confront him it was Caedrel about Renekton and for months people kept thinking of this as a drama and made some kinf of narrative about them hating each other because of that disagreement and in the end the debate itself became less relevant to most people than the drama. So it feels like anyone that has the credibility to back up LS' ideas is also someone that is working for a big org, either a team or even Riot themselves, that doesn't want any link with LS because they don't want it to become a drama
Because honestly everytime LS has a take on the meta, it feels like something he has came up with all alone and that the only ppl backing it up are his community of silvers that agrees with him without understanding a quarter of the whole thought process that has to be made before saying this or that is viable, it just looks like a big circlejerk from the outside, which doesn't mean his ideas are wrong, but him being the only person with some kind of credibility to promote his ideas makes them actually hard to accept as good ideas for most people.
Him getting to coach a team with decent players that accepted to play the game the way he wants to could also be a good way for him to showcase his ideas, but with the way the C9 thing ended I doubt it's happening anytime soon
I am so happy they failed.
stick to developing homegrown talent,if your buy korean ,buy a world champion
Guy is stressing to get these sentences out
who is that guy ?
am I lost ?
c9 coach
@@icedcoffee123 isnt max waldo the coach ?
@@makrambenayed3284 veigar is the strategic coach
Waldo is Head coach. This guy is the strategic coach. None of them have too much say in what happens in the teams apparently
@@adambialecki3162 pure ego diff then lol. Must be why VIT fell out if thats the case
Ls should just coach another team
Just ban the damn zeri like this shit so easy
I don't get why LS second guesses every single thing C9 does when he literally could be making every decision they make if he didn't have to quit because teams are hard
He didn't quit...
U might be late but hes fired man
so awkward
Feels like LS is talking to a brick wall
ls is trying to make him flame his team xd
wa
Why is Summit being blamed for terrible picks in other lanes? It’s one thing to want pick comfort champs for himself because he feels like he’s playing a 1v9 game but how much influence could he have in every lane?
Sure his pick too will shape the draft but some of these picks have been…. Holy shit. Just awful and nonsensical.
I would assume from other players perspective like Berserker - why would I not my pick as well, if this guys gets to pick what he wants. The problem lies in letting any of the players pick things, when they don't make sense in teams draft strategy overall, especially when the players have dogshit draft understanding on the roster, or have champ pool issues.
he got the last pick all 3 games and he didn't do shit with it
Because noobs want to blame an outsider. Summit carried C9 when they were doing well. He is an import who joined because LS convinced him to. And somehow people actually think he has the kind of influence to force LS out. As opposed to Blaber and Fudge?
Sry Ls but if something is strong and usable in pro play they soud us it . There no place for excouse .
For someone that has so many strong opinions on Twitter, Veigarv2 sounded very out of place. I guess he is just a draft, build genius on social media.
To me it sounds like he cant say what he wants to, if he did C9 would not be very happy
You'll find it's painstakingly unmistakable that V2 doesn't actually get to have a say in anything that goes on in regards to the talked about aspects.
he has to respect the systems in place otherwise he gets kicked
Ls spoke his mind and got kicked out...
Adding to what everyone else is saying. He’s coaching remotely I’m pretty sure. It’s sooo hard to actually have impact on game day if ur not there in person
People in the comments really think coaches can command the players what to puck
#clown9
Clown9 at it again how sad.
LS's ability to have a concersation here is a fucking joke lol. He makes no accomodation for reasonable responses with his accusatory rhetoric.
That was probably the point but is so uncomfortable to listen to
People who watched LS from back when he was hardcore GRF fan and T1 disser to now know how much of a drama queen he can be. Talk fast and loose. Occasionally sounds smart but with little to actually show for it. Any 'evidence' is basically in hindsight for him when he has nothing to lose.
The thing ls always forgets about Lee even if his stats are bad is that his kit is good. Good clear, shields a lot of dashes and escapes and a really good playmaking ult for example oner would not be able to preform the way he does if it was on xin since xin doesnt allow him to do some crazy combo to win the game
Oner carried hard on xin this season
You obviously have not watched a T1 game this season if you're making that claim.
@@channie3473 excuse me ? So oner didnt play xin or he fed on xin this season ? give me a break
@@channie3473 There was even a game where he 1v3'd at bot tower on xin, what games did YOU watch ?
@@cahn2003 Not as hard as Lee Sin. When Oner is one Lee Sin it's literally 1v9. Same as Viego. On Xin he is great but it's very dependent on his team to set him up. Guy even react faster than chovy.
Closer Lee Sin negates all Lee Sin hate imo
But thats the point. It atleast makes sense if you're closer.
ok people let me explain a few things. One coaches in na are not the same as kr. in Korea there respect by players so if they tell them to play a champion they do it if they lose draft the coach takes the blame. in na they say hey guys this x champ is op here and the players decided if they want to play. Two orn is broken in na but not in kr or lpl.what does that mean if na picks orn there gonna get shit on so hard and go back to meta. na has the worst players worst meta worst macro.why when they come back from msi or worlds there super hype to improve then they secured there spot and go back to 1v1 dont solo or champion q and wonder why they lose. Three get fudge out of c9 I been a c9 fan since lemonation I been there highs lows but something about this roster dosent feel right I dont like fudge top or mid why because if he goes against any other mid he just lays down and die expect to be carried by berserk or summit . Summit made it clear he wants out .
Yes that is why it is hilarious C9 fans actually think it is Summit who forced LS out. It is one of the resident C9 players not some new import who joined only because LS convinced him to. LOL.