WHY is there a WHITE CLOUD? Explained by CAPTAIN JOE
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Don´t these videos of departing aircraft look ever so cool, as they hurtle down the runway, but why is there white smoke, fog or whatever you want to call it, within the engines?
What you see here, is actually a miniature cloud generating in front of the engine compressor.
So today I`ll be explaining how this cloud is generate in front of the engine via little experiment.
Here the related question:
I was on a commercial flight in a 737 stationary at idle on a taxiway. It had recently stopped raining so the relative humidity was likely near 100% and the air temperature was about "light jacket" level. I was in a window seat forward of the engine intake so I could see the whole intake.
Every 30 seconds or so a cloud would burst into existence across the entire jet intake and be sucked away in perhaps one quarter of a second. Was it really a tiny cloud that I was seeing and what bit of thermodynamics was causing it? Why was it periodic?
Thanks for watching, all the best your "Captain" Joe
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At 3:01, I think the statement is misleading. At the engine intake the temperature drops because the pressure drops, this is adiabatic cooling. But this is not the same effect that a desk fan uses to keep your body cool. A desk fan does not create a significant pressure drop. Instead it cools you through forced convection and the latent heat of vaporization of your sweat.
Janis M
Agree. Captain Joe’s comment confused me for a second. For a brief moment, up was down, right was wrong, and universal entropy decreased.
Then my simple monkey brain started trying to make critical thought. ¿If a fan magically made air cool, then why do we need air conditioning systems?
These all might happen one day, but not today.
To be more specific, all of his statements are wrong on this one... Looking at dew points read from a psychrometric chart is nonsense when we are not talking about constant pressure..
Spot on
He would have to get into the venturi effect for this so maybe he just glossed over it since that's extra complications
yeah, if we wanna be speciffic, a fan in an isolated room would actually increase temperature due to friction
The engine is actually a fan for the pilot because when it stops he starts sweating!
only when both of them stop
Good one..
MWB Gaming but one of them stops will still cause a bit of sweat
Over used joke
We had one of our KC-135 tankers, lose all four engines to low oil pressure, on a flight from England o the US. Pilot decided it was better to keep flying with engines with low oil pressure than with no engines. Nobody had serviced the engine oil, for several flights, and all four engines ran out of oil. They did an emergency landing at the first stateside base.
Damn, Joe is an international airline pilot but he still puts in the effort to make quality videos for us. There is a reason why he is the most popular in his field on RUclips after all😏.
Thanks Leonidas! Means a lot :)
Leonidas the plane is always flown by a pilot. Not RUclips commentators. Keep up the good work, Joe
Yes. But dont forget mentour.
justinl458 He is great too and I watch him regularly as well, but nobody can match Joe's quality.
Luqman.
Most of the time the plane is flown by the autopilot, the human pilot only puts the plane into manual control for take off and landing.
Amazing video Joeey! I wonder how you get to these specific topics. Very interesting and informative as always. :-) Enjoy flying and see you very soon!
Accelerated air isn't cooler. However, faster flowing air passes more air against the warm surface and, consequently, takes on and evacuates more heat. To the skin, flowing air seems cooler ONLY because of the sweat evaporation off out skin and nerve endings detecting that heat energy gradient/evacuation as "coolness". I should add, since i forgot, that I was only referring to the part where Joe said "that's why fan feels cool". I most certainly wasn't trying to rewrite termodynamics laws! 😂
The direct effect of the pressure on the relative humidity is miniscule. But a change in pressure can result in a pretty high change in temperature and therefore a drop of the potential of the air to keep the water. 5° can make a big difference, especially at near 100% relative humidity.
So the cloud is primarily caused by the temperature change which is caused by the pressure change
I just wanted to say the same. The fan works as way that increases the airflow around the body which increases swat eavpoartion or as long as room temp. is smaller is your body temp it transports cooler air winch increases the heat flow.
tabaks Wrong. When a fluid is accelerated, its pressure will decrease. What happens thermodynamically to the fluid is very similar to an adiabatic expansion. The work of expansion is done at the expense of its internal energy. This results in a decrease of temperature.
It is not acceleration but adiabatic expansion caused by sucking air from the front of the engine
Marek Sygula Go check any text on fluid dynamics, any fluid that is accelerated will decrease its pressure. It's Bernoulli's principle. As air rushes through the inlet, it will accelerate and its pressure will decrease. This sudden decrease in pressure as the air is sucked into the engine can be looked at as an adiabatic expansion of sorts.
I'm not even studying to become a pilot and I watch these regularly, you are incredibly good at explaining this stuff.
Thanks, appreciate your feedback :)
Me neither, I'm just interested in these things tangentially. Doesn't stop me getting ads from flight schools before pretty much every one of Joe's monetised videos...
@@rjfaber1991 "tangentially" you should be a pilot.
The air doesn't get cooler because it's "accelerated", and the fan analogy is completely wrong. The cooling and the acceleration are both the result of the pressure difference. As the air pressure drops, it results in "adiabatic cooling". Air gets hot when it is compressed, and cools when it expands, whether it is moving or not. When air is forced to flow through an abruptly narrowing orifice (such as in the bottle experiment) or abruptly deflects over a wing surface, the pressure can drop even further due to the Bernoulli effect. This results in even more cooling and fog. However, the Bernoulli effect is not a factor at the jet intakes because the cross-sectional area is relatively constant.
THANK you. I was confused when he talked about "moving air being cooler." Not so. Lowering pressure DOES cool the air, because there are fewer molecules banging into each other with lower pressure. So as the engine sucks in air, there is extremely low pressure as the air leaves the atmosphere and is pulled into the engine. That's when the air cannot hold as much moisture and therefore it condenses.
was looking at a airport stream on wet day and saw this effect. Being a Mech Eng myself, I thought about the reason behind and searched in youtube. Was shocked that Joe explained the reasoning like this and was trying to find a clear mind in the comment section. And there you are.
Actually high water content does Impact the Power in a positive way. The more Mass flow the more propulsion. you can increase also the fuel flow as the Turbine gets cooling from an additional source.
2:57 "accelerated air is cooler otherwise a fan would lose all its purpose" - that's not true, it only transfers more heat off a surface, because slightly heated air is constantly replaced with non-heated air, but the air itself isn't cooler. Otherwise a hairdryer would lose all its purpose :)
For a normal fan (like the ones you have at home) this is true. But the fan of a turbofan engine deals with high speeds, so the pressure drops by a huge amount and that's why the air is significantly cooled. On the other side you have a high pressure zone, that's why the air is hotter.
Yeah, i was thinking the same. Maybe the explanation in this video is kinda flawed because the effect is not directly correlated to temp but only to pressure.
When a professional explains something every one understands they know exactly what they are saying thumbs up cap joe.
Great Explanation! It's called "adiabatic expansion" (engine intake, above the wings, opening a bottle of soda water, ...) with a relative humidity below the dew point.
Thanks, got out of hand there :)
As a Corrosion Engineer and mentor to new engineering students, I'm always looking for new techniques to explain thermodynamic principles and your description of Dew Point is excellent. Clear and simple to understand to those whom may find other explanations overwhelming. Excellent Captain. Please keep this form of visual description in your repertoire. 👍👍
its the chem-trail liquid being sprayed in!
Everyone knows that!
(no not really)
3:01 Accelerated air is not cooler. Yes, faster air can evacuate or move heat faster, but it is not cooler, and the way a conventional house fan works is pushing air past you, evacuating body heat therefore making you feel colder.
Besides that, you did a great job explaining everything as always, Joe!
4:53 i got scared as hell listening on my headphones
You explain stuff so well it’s almost impossible to not understand what you talk about. Great job, I hate when people make it more confusing but you don’t. I also subbed
The air entertaining the engine is accelerating and losing pressure. The air can't hold as much water at a lower pressure and the water in the air condensates. This is similar to air passing over the top of the wing which creates a cloud as there is lower pressure there.
wrooong!
+entering!
*condenses
But, your science is sound.
I always had a TERRIBLE fear of flying... I turned down a LOT of nice chances to travel abroad and even WORK abroad because of it... The IDEA of having to travel by airplane scared the crap out of me.
Little by little I started reading and searching for content on aviation to try to overcome this fear, since my professional life kinda depended on it and I was pretty much stuck in a position where I HAD to fly more often and had no other choice but to overcome this fear...
I found your channel looking for a video on some noises we hear on an aircraft (that "barking sound" of the Airbus) and almost binge-watched your videos. The way you deliver the content, the knowledge, and your friendly approach made me like aviation a lot... I'm working on overcoming my fear and you've been very helpful.
I wish you all the best in your life and career and thank you for your amazing content.
Cheers, captain!
Hey Joe, I've got a question for you: why do Pilots start the right engine first, even when it's called engine 2?
Because for most airline aircraft, engine number two supplies bleed air to the air conditioning allowing the air con packs to supply conditioned air to the cabin And engine two supplies hydraulic pressure to the flight controls, I think.
I am a ship captain who wanted to to be a pilot when I was younger but the eplaination from captain Joe and simplicity of it at lest gets me to have the knowledge of aviation..
Hi sir, when u ll upload 3rd video on ILS?
Das ist tatsächlich sehr gut erklärt. Faszinierend, dass man das mit der Flasche so einfach simulieren kann. Daumen hoch und danke für dieses Video.
Hi Joe!
Could you make a video about the headset you use?👍🏼
Coming soon :)
Cpt. Joe makes the best videos about airplanes and he explains the most as he can about everything that he talks about. Cpt. Joe, congrats for good videos.
Joe, how do some pilots manage to land back to the airport when both engines get failure?
Totally love you and your expatiation. I'm from Houston, TX. Meteorologists often talk of humidity, dew point etc. There is a lot of humidity down here. Keeps your skin from wrinkling. LOL I had a friend who flew for Delta Airlines. I once asked..."what happens when rain water is sucked into the engine?" He told me it's actually good for the engine. I didn't realize it was too HOT to flame out. LOL
Thank you for this Capt. Great information 👍
Great video and fantastic demonstration!! Awesome!
5'000 cubic meter per second ! :O
Big Sucker :)
More like 500m3 at sea level and 15 degrees Celsius.
It's definitely not 5000 cubic meter per second. An Airbus A380 sucks 800 cubic meter per second which approximately has a weight of one ton.
@@flywithcaptainjoe I have found that The Trent XWB (A350 XWB), a larger engine developing 430 kN at takeoff, has an air mass flow of 1,440 kg/s. So it woild be around 1872 m3. Considering 2 engines, still less than 4000 m3. Am I correct?
A fan actually HEATS UP the air in a room. We used to use giant electric fans to stop our orange trees from freezing in the winter. The fans stir up the air and generate heat. When it gets below freezing, we turn on the sprinklers to try to protect the trees.
I thought the drop in temperature was due to the drop in pressure, not accelerating the air.
rmfleming69 Same thing. Moving air= less pressure. Less pressure = lower temperature
That's not how it was explained
Accelerating the air causes the pressure to drop
It's the venturi effect that doughtymquan is explaining. Joe probably didn't want to get into the depths of that since its a big concept lol
But Joe is correct in his brief form. If the air accelerates because of the venturi effect pressure drops which in turn cools
As someone who took AP Physics in high school and took a few more classes in college/uni, An aircraft engine accelerates and compresses air in general. You can have incredibly fast-moving air in a high-pressure environment. The temperature of a fluid is directly proportional to the speed of the fluid molecules (O2, CO2, N2, etc.) themselves.
While a warmer fluid solvent can dissolve a higher amount of solute (air dissolves water), we're also dealing with enormous speeds and forces. In an effect that is only opposite for a few moments, much the same as a centrifuge forcing the heaviest molecules of a mixture to the ends of tubes due to their higher mass over time (think Uranium "enrichment"), what aircraft engines do in this case is produce high enough force as to drag the air faster than they can drag the heavier water (which is almost never a single molecule even when suspended in air).
When this happens, O2, CO2, and N2, which are non-polar molecules, leave behind their water, which by its own polar nature races toward other polar molecules. This condenses the water, which then refracts light, producing distortions which, at that speed where only tiny droplets can form, we call clouds.
You COULD also express this as a drop in pressure for the water molecules (though certainly not the air molecules), but that's slightly dishonest.
Captain Joe: Why is there a WHITE CLOUD
Me:because you are in the sky
Lol
Awesome explation with crystal clear understanding of concept. Thanks Capt Joe... You stand out from the rest
You described it wrong: Wait wat? Minute 3: Faster air is cooler? Wtf??? Faster air FEELS cooler because of the layer of warmer air around our body....
The real explanaition why its getting colder is shortened:
The energy (in wich the molecules are moving) stays the same while the area (as a cause of the suction) ( less pressure ) increases so the temperature is going down.
(Examples: The mechanism how Refridgerators work / Why a spray of deodorant feels cold, even if the can was at room temerature )
I hope you correct your mistake (an easy to make mistake)
Because 4 a sience and physics nerd like me this is not the best part of your explanation🖒
Vincent Sooos he was talking about the wind chill effect of fans
Both explanations are true. a) more air moving around you will cause more temperature to dissipate (what you explained) b) moving air will drop its temperature due to the ideal gas law and pressure differences.
*for
...Yeah, the cooling effect in the front of these engines is basically the one form of cooling fans DON'T do. Fans cool down potential hot zones by circulating air around which averages out the temperature in the area, fans create a wind chill effect by cycling off the air around our skin that heats up, and fans evaporatively cool us if we're sweaty... Fans do _not_ change air pressure and adiabatically cool anything, sadly. That'd be a neat trick. (albeit loud.)
Hello captain joe....love your videos.Just finished my medical examinations and passed my aptitude test :) your videos are the daily reminder for what's to come if i get through all this :D keep the videos coming :)) 👍
2:44 So can I use it to clean my house?
Very nice demonstration.
It's also interesting to note that on humid/high air density days planes are noticeably louder.
So basically they vaping
Oh my, that's the funniest comment so far :)
Vape Naysh, y'all
November A.Jacks vape nation y'all
Captain Joe yes you replied that's a first thank you my evening got happier
That's the best explanation of relative humidity I've ever heard. Thanks for sharing.
I like being taught physics and maths by joe
Mlgpenguinboy wait who’s joe
Mason MacIsaac the dude making this video
I have learned more from your videos than my teachers. They were awesome at explaining, so it is a great marker of your excelence in explaining. Love your vids!!
Can you listen to music while flying
i dont see why you couldnt play some music in one ear when the plane is stable, at its cruising altitude and ATC is not pestering you
That water bottle pressurized then quick released the nozzle was awesome!!!
Hi Co Pilot Joe..get that fourth strip
hahah thank you, i was freaking out looking in the comments that nobody else than me had noted that.
Major Tom captain Joe ain’t a Captain at all...change your name..don’t pretend your something you are not..psychological projection
I think 98.9% of his followers dont know what those yellow stripes mean. Otherwise there would be more comments noting that he is NOT a Captain and may never be, as it isnt just based on flight hours.
Major Tom yes sir I am familiar with the requirements..I’m a Captain..type rated on the B727, B757/767, DC10, A320, A330, B747, B744 with a little over 30,000 hours and will soon be typed on the A350
Capt Joe has the best videos about aviation on RUclips. This video for example is more as a class of physics.
He knows how to make the most easy to understand comparisons about what he is talking about.
Congrats Capt Joe
This much physics is normal for me.
is called thermodynamics. But first officer (not captain yet) Joe, didnt know that.
@@majortom4543 maybe he did but for many people if u say termodunamic they will be scared dont know why (at least its like that way in my coyntry)
Lethean, they get scared with the word Physics too. Its sad but thats what it is.
The air going into the engine intake can't believe how good the fans are, and it turns white with amazement.
IFR conditions in an engine lol
IFR is foggy 😉
Wieder mal sehr gut erklärt. Und zwar so, dass man es nachvollziehen kann. Solche Lehrer hätte ich mir damals in der Schule gewünscht.
Vielen Dank Joe und mach weiter so.
4:57 - lovers of flat Earth and chemtrails will not believe you. :D
physics is strange to them like aliens from Mars.
For a laymen's explanation of a complicated subject based on a simple question, his explanation will work for most people. However, besides the adiabatic cooling, it's worth mentioning there is no such thing as suction. There is only high pressure areas pushing itself into low pressure areas. Regardless, thanks Joe for the great video!
Watching Capt. Joe is seriously the best way (other than flying) to spend your time.
This answered some of my doubts from school physics ! Merci beaucoup Monsieur !
The water inside the bottle does not get hotter. The Air is. And can Store more vapor. The Change of the water from Liquid to Gas cools down the water very efficiently. Therefore we expect near Isotherm compression. The Gas inside has now near roomtemperature.
Cool video! 1 thing though - I'm pretty sure that acceleration doesn't cool the air; it's the pressure drop. Notice the vapor forms inside the bottle, not when it leaves the nozzle. It hasn't been accelerated yet, but it cools and creates the "cloud".
As an example of how little effect this water vapour will have on an engine just look at the Qantas Flight 32 incident. After landing the #1 engine was still running even though the cockpit crew had followed the engine shutdown procedure; due to the control signals being interrupted.
There are easily searchable videos of an airport fire truck directly spraying a massive quantity of water into the engine which quite happily ignores the water as it is designed to fly through dense cloud. The fire truck eventually used foam to extinguish the engine.
This is the best explanation I've seen on this. My search is over. Thanks.
All the videos you upload are really educating and fun to see and coordinating both your job and your RUclips channel makes you arguably the best one on this field
And that's why you are the popular as well🙄🙄🙄
Captain Joe. Appreciate your use of safety goggles for those out there they may want to duplicate this in a demonstration. I give you a grade of A+ on this lesson.
Yes, the reason for the forming of fog is the drop in temperature to below the actual dewpoint in still air. But the reason for the temperature drop is the sudden drop in pressure of the air in the intake (not the acceleration). Yes, the acceleration of the air by the fan blades causes the drop in air pressure in the intake area in front of the fan. Many times in such a humid environment (dewpoint close to temperature) we can also see a "locally generated cloud" above the wings of an aircraft during take-off when airborne.
I love your little puns and jokes they are not much and boring just perfect enough
The drop in pressure also drops the temperature of the air. Fans don’t cool air, the moving air they blow is the same temperature as the room. They cool by causing moisture on skin to evaporate.
While in the Air Force,we had to do pressurization checks on the aircraft. When our test were done, we would do an emergency dump of the air. The entire cockpit and cargo department would instantly get very foggy, and the temp would drop,just like the engine intake
Nice explanation, but i have one thing to add, there is no suction. Is just air moving from high pressure to low pressure (even in the vacuum cleaner). The big fan/compressor of the engine is moving/pushing the air back and that creates a low pressure in front of it , AgentJayZ has a good explanation about this on his channel. All the best!
I ... love ... your ... videos ... Joe! Excellent quality and so much knowledge that people in general do not know... Well done and keep’em coming...
Ich liebe Deine Videos. Kurz und verständlich erklärt für den Laien. Weiter so.
I love physics. I wanted to be an Aerospace Engineer because of such beautiful science that is being applied to our everyday lives, but the only problem for me is that I'm not a Math person. I loved the explanation that was given; it was very accurate and thorough.
I would love to see a video of yours covering the importance of radar , how are planes safeguarded from air collision and functioning of atc .
I love those takeoff photos where a mini tornado forms in front of the engine
My Aim is to be a pilot .You are one of the reason I still have the aim fixed ,your videos just makes my more interested in the field of aviation .Thank You
Love your videos Captain Joe. Keep them coming.
Interesting tidbit regarding water in the air\fuel mixture of aircraft is that the Germans in WW2 developed methanol water injection as a means of increasing the octane of their fuel thereby allowing higher compression and more power. The Oldsmobile Jetfire copied the concept for their V8 engine in the 1960's. The channel Greg's Airplanes and Automobiles does a nice job discussing both.
Yep, as per comments below, definitely mistaken about the fan, but additionally, you don't cool yourself with a fan by the fan's inlet, but where the air is leaving the fan, where it is slowing back down.
Actually, the reason why a household fan is cooling is not dropping temperature because of difference in air pressure. Household fans cool you because moving air can absorb more humidity (i. e., sweat) from your skin than stationary air can.
3:30 accidentally did this experiment yesterday when I took a water rocket and took all the water out then fired it. Didn't know why it made a weird vapor thing that smelled a lot of soda and plastic until now
like in an air conditioner or a fridge, compressed gasses become liquid. this confuses people. this is not liquidification, this is condensation due to rapid temp decrease and air releases excess water. but normally, when you decrease air pressure, air will have more water capacity. so there are 2 components involved. temp&pressure. well explained joe! totally aggree with you.
In simpler terms cap. Joe, between the engine intake and on the outside layer of air act as a cold front where by as the cooler air moves towards the hot engine air the warm air produced by the engine causes condensation and then cloud is being form.
Simple ... Informarive ... Educational ... You are brilliant
PV=nRT. Pressure drops, Volume is constant, temperature will drop resulting in condensation. House fans do not cool the assist evaporation of sweat which removes heat and make you feel cooler.
Captain you’re a genius! Awesome!
This is a really good explanation of basic thermodynamics!
That's a beautiful tri-jet at the beginning of the video. Thanks for I'm including it. Great video, as per usual
Very nice explanation. Precise and accurate for everyone understanding...
Great explanation captain joe
I watch all your videos
I absolutely love everything about flying
Cheers
Nice demo! Some people may still have problem to understand why higher speed will cause lower pressure. If explain a bit about Bernoulli's principle, that will help.
So more entertaining and professional than MenturPilot. Keep up the quality and style Joe. Thanks.
Good experiment.. I think you can do the same phisical effect “pressing” air in your mouth for 2/3 seconds than blow out slowly.. you can see the condensation of the humidity in your breath come out
Awesome video! Thanks very much! Very impressive demonstration!
Looks spectacular. Thanks for explanation. Ps. Had my first go around at Sydney last week. It very was windy and i thought the plane may have not been stabilised to land. Turns out Atc had given our A330 late landing clearance. However the plane lining up took too long. ATC requested our go around. And that took another 20 mins to sequence for landing. A 52 minute flight, quick for Melbourne to Sydney turned to 90mins. The thrust for go around was quite exhilarating. Cheers.
Very cool demonstration. Excellent explanation. Really enjoy your videos.
You are amazing at explaining things I have always wondered about in aviation. Thank-you.
Well done!! I can see u trying very hard on this. Anything on R.H..density altitude,,Compressibility..damn abstract to explain...so well done!!
the best science explanation, i ever heard. so awesome!!!!
I was confused when Joe talked about "moving air being cooler." Not so. Lowering pressure DOES cool the air, because there are fewer molecules banging into each other with lower pressure. So as the engine sucks in air, there is extremely low pressure as the air leaves the atmosphere and is pulled into the engine. That's when the air cannot hold as much moisture and therefore the water vapor condenses. So it's a matter of lowering pressure as a result of moving the air, and the low pressure causes the condensation.
Great video - I recognise the audio in the background from the Slow-mo guys?
Actually it's not air accelerating that makes it cooler, but the fact that it exapnds very fast (adiabatic expansion)
It has more to do with pressure than temperature. You do mention pressure in the video, but the dominant mechanism is the increase in equilibrium vapor pressure due to the increased air pressure. The fact that the air is moving quickly isn't the driving factor for why the water vapor condenses out, it's the zone of low pressure air directly in front of the turbine blades. If you put a thermocouple directly in front of the turbines, you'd find that the decrease in temperature would be minimal.
This is one of your most interesting video's to date for me. I liked the experiment.
It is NOT the acceleration cooling down the air, but the decrease in pressure. Acceleration has no effect on pressure or temperature etc. Also a fan is NOT cooling because of cooler air, but by forcing evaporation on the skin. Temperature in front of a fan is not cooler, theoretically even warmer.