Time Trial Super Bike VS Budget TT Bike | GCN Tech's Aero Showdown
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- Опубликовано: 3 окт 2024
- After weeks of tinkering away and scouring the internet for the cheapest aero components he can get his hands on, Ollie's budget TT bike is finally complete. He's optimised his tyres and drivetrain, fine tuned his position, and even made his own disc wheel to make this sub £1000 build as fast as possible. But, how fast will it be compared to his £10,000 Orbea super bike? You'll have to watch to find out!
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I think it would make more sense to compare it to a normal road bike with clip-on aero bars ; it is quite obvious that the superbike is faster than the budget, but I don't think it is the real issue, since people won't really hesitate between a 1000 and a 10000 pounds bike, rather between a 1000 pounds bike or a better all-rounder with clip-on aero bars ... Maybe a test against a Canyon Aeroad with aero-bars ?
He compared these two because he built that budget bike on the channel, it would be weird to then not test it. And its about the difference, not if its faster or not
@@comrade_youri2966 I think the above suggestion was to compare the budget TT bike, to a mid range road bike with TT bars. Most people looking to do a TT will already have a road bike, perhaps even quite a nice one, would it be worth having a budget TT bike when the nice road bike with clop on bars may be faster anyway.
Theodore Roberts That’s already been done. Just go through the archives.
I think the point of the test was to compare apples to apples, a purposely designed TT bikes built on a budget and a TT bike with no expenses spared and see what the true performance disparity is under the same conditions. As viewers, we understand that the superbike will be faster, but by how much, and is the price difference (aside from getting modern components and better frame materials and geo) worth it. If he were to compare it to a road bike with aero clip ons, it wouldn't have the same value because that was never the goal of this series. On the contrary, if the goal was to build a budget aero road bike, and he started off with a the same 10 year old TT bike and fit it with a road cockpit and aero wheels, and then he compared it to a modern day aero bike, then that would be a proper comparison.
The largest difference between a tt frame and a road frame with tt bars is going to be the saddle position in comparison to the bottom bracket center line. Once a rider can get closer to the bracket center his saddle can go up and the hip angle will open up.
This shift in position also causes a different weight distribution, this is one of the reasons you see time trail bikes having a harder time in wet corners, there is less weight on the rear wheel, add the braking of a rider that does not have the experience/ bravery to go through a corner without touching the brakes and you lose traction.
I love how Oli gives the distance in miles, but speed in kilometres.
Welcome to England, where the measurement systems are made up and the weights don't matter XD
I'm the opposite. Our country uses the metric system so distances are in km, but growing up playing Need For Speed, I get a better feel for speed with mph.
BinarySecond I see what you did there! XD
@@BinarySecond we use mph tho
@@2BTO ???
I'm curious to know how much of a difference that disc wheel actually makes on the course.
a disc wheel is easily the biggest aerodynamic gain you can make on a bike besides your body position.
Yeah disc wheels are pretty amazing. Although a home made one might have issues.
@@albr4 the front wheel is usually more important than the rear. It's the first to hit the air, the rear just tries to tidy the disturbed air up.
@@jonathancottingham3206 you should look up some data. The difference between disc and no disc is enormous.
@@mitchellsteindler I've heard that it only makes a difference once you're going above a certain speed, about 20mph? Below that there's no advantage? I'm entering my first full ironman next year, I'm still deciding if it's worth getting one. The bike is my best bit, but I'm 60 and not the fastest out there, probably only looking to average 17mph over the 112 miles.
Great series! I love my old tri/TT bike, a 2006 P2SL. It's plenty fast!
Sounds awesome! Glad you enjoyed this series!
The Cervelo looks amazing, I absolutely love it. I'm also quite surprised by the relatively small time difference. Great series mate 👍
I am glad that GCN didn’t change the colors and the graphics on the bike and the bike looks great. Both bikes performed nearly equally.
While I'm a die hard MTBer who's never ridden a road bike, these sorts of challenges are the very reason I'm subscribed to GCN Tech.
Yet another brilliant series 🤘
Now Im curious how the cervelo compares to a normal mid-range roadbike.
Its faster than a normal drop bar bike. The aerobars alone easily make you ~3kph faster on flat ground
I'm also curious how a mid-range TT bike compares to that Orbea. The cost difference here for a 1.8% improvement in speed is absolutely insane.
@@Kek5kopF But what about a £1000 road bike with clip on bars?
@@theodoreroberts8524 The disc wheel still makes a difference I suppose. Ollies cervelo also has a quite deep downtube, which is more aero than what you'd see on 1000$ road bikes. Disc wheels are quite impractical outside of competitions due to wind attack surface.
@@blaireasdon I'd speculate that the major difference in ollies test comes from the additional weight on the cervelo. As you could see there have been some climbs involved and thats where the lighter orbea just wins. The aero difference between the two is rather minimal I guess
Nicely done. I really enjoyed watching the whole build process. Ollie's smile when he starts riding the Cervelo and everything works is perfect. That's well earned pride in accomplishment.
Good work Oli... The P1 is an awesome bike. My friend found one for about $250 and he got it and worked on it for a bit and when he started riding it he got into some races and he was number 2 in the state for his age group. He has since changed his TT bike to a Giant and sold me the P1. I lucked out and I've done a few rides on it and it is just awesome. Bike on folks.
Well done Ollie! That’s the joy of cycling… building up a custom bike with the components & specs you like. Very good comparison. I’m sure the time gap would have been slightly closer if the Cervelo was a carbon frame. When you consider the money spent on the build vs the modern bike, the build proves to have extra value with such a close time. I think it would be fun to showcase your favorite built-up bikes & hear why you enjoyed them. Ride On! LVCervelo fan!
With a disc and crazy fancy crank. Any bike looks amazing.
Best and most interesting video on cycling I have ever seen. Wow Ollie, you have inspired me
Just bought myself a budget tt bike shopping around used sites, landed a 2011 Felt B14 . Love this comparison. Cheers from Canada.
Wonderful series and I'm I impressed by Ollie's trackstands. I built a budget criterium racer in part due to the inspiration of this series. 1st gen TCR frameset with 105 components and extras i had in my garage. 17.09 lbs.
Way to go!
Low handlebar position is priceless. Aerodynamics is important for time trial... Thanks for video.
I'll like to suggest an additional test for these comparison tests. You can make an effort at say 250W on the premium product, get the time, and try to replicate the time on the more value product and see what the W difference is.
The difference in time was that the budget bike had a 1.858% time deficit. So if it makes sense to use that same discrepancy to apply to wattage, 250w on the mega bike would have to be 254.645w (250w x 1.01858). Happy to be told this doesn't work out but that's my best guess.
@@coombsfh If your maths were true, then I'd complete the course in 0 minutes and 0 seconds provided I held 500 W.
@@philipk4475 I suspected I wasn't right. Back to school for me. What's the correct guessworking trick?
@@coombsfh Air resistance increases exponentially with speed. In other words, at twice the speed, air resistance is four times as large. Since in the flat air resistance makes up the vast majority of resistance, one therefore needs to increase power by more than the desired speed increase. However, as a rough approximation, your calculation would be broadly correct when riding up a steep mountain.
@@erikrossen4268 thanks for your reply. A nice thing to learn something in the comments.
Great series taught me so much about bikes in general
olli gushing at the "whoooshing noise" is the ray of sunshine that 2020 needs
GCN Presenter Challenge: Win a club 10 on a bike you built
Awesome series, thanks for putting it together! I’m a huge fan of the TT, love seeing this type of content that’ll help turn more people onto the discipline.
That disk wheel looked like fun to build. Not sure how practical for daily use though. Fun is why we do this sport.
I very much enjoyed this series. It definitely proves the riders position is key. Thanks
Give this man a raise!
Great content, best thing here in couple of months.
Should have an ordinary road bike in there to though. Like 1000 pound road bike - complete stock.
Never done a TT before or ridden with a club - but I've been building a budget TT bike as well (around a Boardman TT 9.2 frame from 2013), and as soon as the club TT scene starts again I can't wait to jump in and see how it goes!
Cool! Just remember the 3 rules of TT:
1. Don't go out too hard
2. Don't go out too hard and ...
3. Don't go out too hard
congratulations on a great build Ollie! This series has really inspired me. I actually really like this old Cervello P1 frame. But to start with I'm going to pick myself up some aerobars and see how it goes from there.
Nice work Ollie! Enjoyed watching this video while servicing my freehub ;-)
Keeping up with the TT arms-race (without getting a new rig every year) has made me spend some time on a few of those neat and sensible upgrades myself.
The sound the Orbea made is surely worth an extra 9K? Though the home made disc wheel is superb.
Thanks, Ollie, for a fun series. I've enjoyed watching you build and test your budget bike. I also have fond memories of the circuit of Chew Valley Lake. I rode a road race there back in 1977 (showing my age now) whilst I was a student at Bristol University. My team mate won the race that day.
It's just great to see how happy he looks at the end of it all. Nice work Ollie, really inspiring on all sorts of levels :)
Great Ollie but no mention of the 1hr TT and the extra drag of the mullet ... barbers next stop 😂
The one good thing that came out of COVID is lots and lots of TTs in my area. Built myself a cheap TT bike and i learned to love ITT, highly recomend!
Enjoyed this series very much. I'd love to see you continuing it, try to close that time gap. Pucker rear disc wheel difference? Did you use the small ring ,If not try 1X? Would be great to see you getting closer to the super bike time.
Yes! Keep on tweaking and upgrade the budget bike! Most people can afford to upgrade their bike for about 100€ per month, if one save cash for a couple of months it adds up to a bigger upgrade. Would be cool to see how good the bike can become.
@@hateferd Yes good idea, but dont forget that GCN is sponsored but all the top equipment manufacturers. But they might try it. Who has £10,000 to spend on a bike these day , I certainly dont!
@@merckxy54 exactly. Although I wouldn't be surprised if next week Ollie has a "oh I just found this"...
ceramicspeed OSPW, and magically gets close to the Orbea.... those guys love marketing
Great vid Ollie and GCN Tech team.
I know the aim was a like-for-like comparison, but that flappy jersey and road helmet were killing me. There are some massive gains to be made there at relatively budget prices (skin suit or just size down the jersey, used TT helmet).
Reminds me of my road-to-tri bike conversion that I do. (seatpost, saddle, disc cover, full cockpit swap). Won't win a beauty contest but gets me very aero, for about $300 of parts and 30 minutes of installation time.
One of the the things I really like about the new crop of presenters is their childlike enthusiasm. They seem to be really excited and happy about the stuff they get to do.
Nice video! Sad to see so many people missing the point of this, but I just wanted to say that it's also a joy to shop around with a tight budget and work on every tiny bit of your bike for months and have something unique and your own rather than dropping a lot of money to get something off the shelf.
I really enjoyed this series alot. Lots of good ideas
Great job Ollie!
Great video! Very interesting results! I did a similar conversion to my road bike and ran into the same problem with not being able to get the aero bars as narrow as I wanted. I finally found the solution by turning the Profile design base bar pieces that hold the extensions 180° on the handlebar to get narrower and more aero! That hack would probably close the gap to the superbike even more! ;)
So to put it in perspective, you got 98.2% of the performance for 10% of the cost. I think you just destroyed the TT bike sales market... Also, position on the Budget fractionally less aero? Could the budget have been closer with the same aero bar set up and hands higher as on the Orbea? I built a new TT bike this year for non-existent races - 10yr old Dalkia frame, running all my kit from the previous road bike with TT cockpit. Total spend so far, just under £300 :-) Basically a frame off eBay and a new chain and some cables. Everything else either transferred or out of the parts box.
I really need to respray my 2010 alu quintana roo frame 😎
Just buy a trispoke or a yoeleo 88mm front wheel and the budget bike would be even faster
I think you're underestimating how much people are prepared to pay for a 1.8% faster bike.
What I think people don't realize is, that from a physics standpoint, speed has an enormous influence on airresistance, as it is factored in there squared. So the faster you go, the more difference these bikes will have. Now I don't know how much 250 Watts is (He can still talk, while having that output), but for double the speed, four times the power is needed. So even slight differences on a 'low' powered run, translate to big differences, when going all out.
@@peters.797 I think he said 37 vs 38kph average, on a hilly course rather than a dragstrip. So not world record pace (i remember a Cycling Weekly video where he went after a 49 minute 25, so he's no slouch and I think that ride was just over 300W)
Brilliant series Ollie, loved following the journey
Nice job, Ollie.
Glad you enjoyed it
Ollie, just wanted to say I have loved this series. As a rider who loves the sport but is on a budget you have absolutely inspired me to spruce up my 2005 Specialized Transition. It’s nice to know that a bike that costs 10X more isn’t 10X faster!
Really enjoyed this series of videos, Ollie. Thanks for uploading and bringing real originality & enthusiasm to the GCN Tech channel.
Excellent series. But really wished you had a chance to ride the bike as you’d bought it against the finished TT upgrade. But hey ho. A 1.8% difference is quite amazing. Thanks.
Great video/ride! Thanks!!
Approx- £400 per second... If I ever invest in a TT bike it will be a budget one. Thanks Ollie for a great series :)
Great comparison doc Ollie
Great stuff Ollie.. always good to overtake a Jag! That vid really is inspiring.. well done.. 👍🏻✊🏻👊🏻🚴
I have this aluminum bike and was considering an upgrade for my next triathlon. Thanks for saving me some cash!
Nice Job Ollie, enjoy the bike TT project!!
The Cervelo looks really smart. Awesome build..
Very impressive and innovative useful TT bike technology speed machine....!
Great stuff Ollie 👍
Hats off to you for saying that it is possible to build an efficient TT bike on a budget and not try to convince us to pay a lot of money to some of your advertisers!
The aero brake calipers look so class man!!
Fun Project & Thanks :)
That was the best series yet, thx Ollie. Could you do a comparison at maximal effort and compare?
I did not like this presenter at first, but wow, really impressed with his fluid style now. Great vid, keep it up
Great stuff. I have been building my 08 cervelo p2 up little by little just like this. It's good to see what I am doing isn't the wrong direction. It's a great bike minus the crankset.
Nice bike. I too built myself a budget TT bike last winter. Got a second hand 2016 Felt B12 frame with fork, handlebars and brakes from Ebay, a second hand Sram Force 22 crankset and Dura Ace front mech (got it cheap with the cranks) and a new 105 rear mech. The wheels are unbranded Chinese carbon ones I already had. Total cost including wheels about the same as yours, a little over 1000 euros.
Great series. Really enjoyed seeing the build and the results!
Excellent series Ollie!
Well done Oli!
I would love to see your Cervelo vs your Trek Madone with aerobars, which would be faster?
I love the tour of the Ordu. "I've got this trick (expensive bit), it saves me watts.... hopefully". Cheap TT bikes are awesome, I love my old P3 which I built for less than Ollie's budget rig :)
I was wondering how realistic this test is when you're mostly in the camera car's slipstream. Also, to know how large the difference to your road bike is, would be very interesting...
Vs road bike: huge difference. I have a giant propel with aero bars. Pretty decent time trial position. How fast I can go Vs being in the drops on the same bike is night and day. Doing 40kph in the drops is really, really hard. Doing 40 on the bars is so much easier.
I've really enjoyed watching Ollie build this bike. Some of the comments are really missing the point of this brilliant series especially during lockdown. Nice one Ollie... also enjoyed watching your hair spiral out of control... just jealous
Hi Oli..congrats..its become realy nice bike and i did one..budget TT bike from my giant steel vintage. Everyday i go for work with it. Distance 25km. So far my everage speed is around 34-38. I also done 236km with it in single shot day ride.
Thanks for this amazing Serie Oli 😊
Would love a wind tunnel test. Drag is a cube of velocity. Great video Ollie! Awesome bike.
Ollie’s build inspired me to covert a bike with diy disc wheel on ally rims, tri bars and shifters for £350 and knocked a minute off a 6 mile TT compared to my road bike with carbon wheels. Result.
Fantastic! 60 sec in 6 miles is nothing to sneeze at!
This channel really warps my definition of what "budget" is.
Precisely the idea!
To be fair it's wishful thinking to think you can get a high performance racing bicycle in good shape on an extremely tight budget. A lot of people who are new to cycling have unreasonable expectations because they only rode cheap children's bikes when they were younger. There are other hobbies which cost a lot more.
Honk Honkler good point. A high-end road bike is an order of magnitude cheaper than a low-end ski boat.
- and dont even get the pilots started on planes.
Don't get me wrong, I love time trialling, but in the middle of a TT I always find myself asking "why am I putting myself through all this pain!?'" 🤷🤦♂️🤔😂
And then when I'm done "I could have gone faster"
So, I do road rides and some crits, and lately, between weird covid fitness and socially distanced following rules I've found myself doing some "group rides" that end up being supra-FTP efforts done entirely in the drops while trying to "chase down" a rider 20-100 yards ahead of me. Starting to figure if I'm doing the training might as well try the races, right?
That's why this is restricted to a comfortable wattage, so it can be easily repeated
Don't we all😂
The good thing about this series is seeing the joy on Ollie's face as he built up the budget bike. Way more smiles per mile than the superbike.
Great finale, enjoyed the series 👍
This is awesome.
hoping to do the same myself this year - great video !
Love this type of content. More please...
1:21
How many watts does the stiff chain link save? Lube your chain Ollie!
good catch! anyway to know whether or not the chain is just the wrong size or stretched? im new at this stuff so if the question does not make sense then disregard lol
What does it matter...He didn't give the actual watts output, but instead left it as "roughly 250 watts".
Gcn: Which bike do u think will be faster ?
Me: is that even a question
Brilliant series and great info on what older tech is able to achieve if you if you can give it some TLC
Loved the series, it inspired me to build my own. Got an 08 Cervelo P3C frameset arriving tomorrow and got most of the parts from FB marketplace or other bargains and had a few pieces sitting around. It will end up 9 speed, but Dura Ace since I had some old 7700s I pulled off of a different bike. Still looking to find a deal on brakes and a big chainring. Overall though should come in well under $1K.
Sounds awesome, Zack! When it's finished, make sure you submit some images to the GCN App!
Aero advantage and watts savings tend to be benchmarked at the 40kph level to allow for a control and to illustrate that you tend to need to be at that speed to really benefit from the most marginal gains. While both tests went out at near this level, Ollie mentioned 250W was a relatively moderate effort for him. It would be interesting to see the difference between the bikes when really pushing the pace. Even if it is across much more varied lengths, times and terrains. How about pushing 300W on both over 10 minutes? Or forget power and go on perceived effort - push the pace on both at all-out efforts for even 5-10 minutes. Great stuff though. Ollie, you bloody love watts savings!
Love it. Top video 😊
Love the homemade disk wheel
I like how GCN isn't snob about the latest and greatest technology 👍
Really enjoyed this series as I bought a very similar bike, a Giant TCR based TT bike that's about the same age. Only mods I've done so far are to replace the original 9 speed Dura Ace with 11 speed Ultegra, and the front cranks with 165 (I have short legs). I'm considering a disk wheel, but I'm not sure I'm fast enough for it to make enough difference (probably looking to do the bike leg in 6-7 hours...so 17-18mph average).
I noticed the "budget bike" (cos its still a smashing bike) has fasting rolling tyres than the souped up one. The budget bike looks to be running the Pirelli P zero TT which has a rolling resistance of 10.2 watts at 18 mph. Acording bicycle rolling resistance.com. The Orbea looks to be running the standard Pirelli P Zero- they come out at 12.5 watts for the same speed. Thats nearly 5 differnce just with the tyres. :) Can I just say I really enjoyed the series. And recently but incidentally have built my own TT bike
Fantastic video and series, Ollie!
Well done. Ride to the level of your smile.
2:03 is something wonky with the chain. I see daylight at a little before 6 on the big chain ring.
Came here to post the same thing! 10K on a bike, talking about top-of-the-line components, and the chain won't even properly engage the big ring. Yikes.
Great video!
Surely a chance to wear the vanquish and visor combo?
I have loved this series
I have been looking forward to this one!
Nice! Now build me one Ollie!
I'm the type of guy who would ride a TT aero bike like these, but wearing baggy shorts, a t-shirt and on platform pedals
Splendid little experiment there - love 'build vs buy'/underdog challenges. I wonder, given the course was a bit up-and-down, if weight became more of an issue? The drag co-efficient between the two bikes might be marginal, but given the aluminium Cervello would clearly be a lot heavier, would it have been particularly disadvantaged on that specific course? That being said - it's likely representative of a typical Sunday course.
Phone rings...
*GCN:* Hello
*Orbea:* we need to talk about our sponsorship agreement!