I'd love to kick it old school style... I'd need to do some serious training though and even then I don't think I could bring any honor to the racing heritage given my vintage. :'(
Canyon. I rode the aero a couple of times back about '92 or '93 and narrowly escaped death. If you need to slow down in a hurry you're likely to soil yourself before you find the brakes.
Definitely the modern bike. My current road bike is a mid 90's Colnago and I've reached the point where the 25c tires (largest that will fit and clear the chain stays and fork) are just brutal to ride on vs. the 32c tires on my "all road" bike. I do prefer the lower riding position of the Colnago, so at some point in 2023 I'll likely be shopping for a new, modern road bike.
Agreed! Something to also keep in mind while riding bikes are helmets. Most people wear cpsc helmets (which arent safe), when they should be actually wearing an nta helmet like xnito or bern
The 7-Eleven team were experimenting with aero bars made by Profile for Speed. They were going to pull them out at the Tour de France in 1989 as their secret weapon. They ended up using them in the Tour de Trump that May because Dag Otto Lauritzen held a narrow lead going into the final time trial, and the 7-Eleven team were trying to take top team honors. Greg took notice of how fast the 7-Eleven team was in that TT. He practiced with them before the Tour. Look at photos of his TT bike in the prologue of 1989. The finish on the Cow horn bars is worn off a bit from the clamps of the TT bars. Greg used the TT bars in the 3 TT's in the tour (minus the prologue). They experimented with the length, and angle and armrests at each TT. Still, an amazing decision to go with the bars. The rest, as they say, is history.
Ditto! Our USAF Club out of Hahn Air Base (Rheinland-Plfalz) stayed in Versailles for that epic stage. The crowd gasped when LeMond came flying by after Delgado went by. Awesome day!
@@gcn It was. I was sat aloft the Golden Joan of Arc statue (now cordoned off to the public on race day), just as the riders came out of the underpass. At the finish line, Greg’s mechanic allowed me to hold his TT bike above my head for photos! Sadly, you can rarely get that level of access these days.
I had to watch it on The Wide World of Sports, but later that year I was in Paris and saw Fignon swaggering in Monmartre. I think the man was incapable of merely walking.
Greg Lemond is criminally overlooked as one of the greatest ever. The man has the greatest comeback story in the history of the sport and if not for that freak accident and him being used and lied to by his team he'd easy have the most Tour de France victories. The man was an absolute animal.
Over looked by who? I think the fans and the riders of the time appreciate him and his legacy. His reputation took a hit from not buying in on what Armstrong was doing, so Trek tried to push him out to protect their main interests.
He was also unfairly treated by the ENTIRE cycling community for daring saying Lance Armstrong was clearly doped when every sign pointed to it and kept to his word
I'd love to see a Modern TT bike vs Retro TT bike. Or maybe even a Classic Cinelli track racer versus the Lotus/Argon18 "Rocketships" of today. Could even add something like the Lotii of the 90's Just to see just how much faster bike tech has gotten, and how much slower riders would be
The first pros to use tri-bars (aero TT bars) in a TT were the 7-Eleven pros in the _second_ and final TT of the 1989 Tour de Trump. Lemond took note and along with the 7-Eleven team used them two months later in the Tour de France. And I don't think it's true that Lemond was convinced to use the bars mid TDF. At the time, I remember watching an interview with him where he said he noticed the amateur racers -- while the 7-Eleven riders were the first _pros_ to use them, the amateurs in the TDT used them in the first TT of the TDT -- use them in the '89 Tour de Trump and saw the advantage they provided. He no doubt had been using the bars well before he used them in TDF two months later.
You are correct. The 7-Eleven team were experimenting with aero bars made by Profile for Speed. They were going to pull them out at the Tour de France in 1989 as their secret weapon. They ended up using them in the Tour de Trump that May because Dag Otto Lauritzen held a narrow lead going into the final time trial, and the 7-Eleven team were trying to take top team honors. Greg took notice of how fast the 7-Eleven team was in that TT. He practiced with them before the Tour. Look at photos of his TT bike in the prologue of 1989. The finish on the Cow horn bars is worn off a bit from the clamps of the TT bars. Greg used the TT bars in the 3 TT's in the tour (minus the prologue). They experimented with the length, and angle and armrests at each TT. Still, an amazing decision to go with the bars. The rest, as they say, is history.
@@darinbusse7591 yeah, but the first to use tri-bars in a pro TT were US _amateurs_ . Kent Bostick used them to get on the podium on stage 7 of the '89 TDT. And Lemond credited the amateurs with opening his eyes to the aero advantage of tri-bars. I'm sure 7-Eleven using them in the TDT final TT helped, but I doubt he'd -- at least while racing -- credit his pro rivals with that revelation. 😅
@@ronm9357 Good memory! I do remember that now that you mention it. Thank you for the reminder that Kent Bostick did use aero bars in the TT in the middle of the Tour de Trump.
@@darinbusse7591 I had about 5 hours of that race on VHS -- footage from both NBC and ESPN. I watched and re-watched it _way_ more than I like to admit.
His average speed for that tt was 54.4kph, which would be a very fast tt today! He also used the Aero bars in the first 2 tt's of the tour that year. The coke can shimming was done after stage 5 when they had slipped, so by the final stage they were dialed in.
What a treat to start off the weekend! Watching LeMond win the TT in '89 was one of the pivotal moments in my cycling life. I remember how the chat about this was all over school the next day. Everybody wanted to stick LeMondies on their bikes.
Glad you did another one of these, I mentioned in your other video I recently picked up a early 2000's Quintana Roo for $120 so I'm really interested in where the crossover point is. It's crazy to think that I could potentially go faster on a $120 20 year old TT bike than a top end modern road bike. I think with shifting at the bars and a more modern geometry should do the tick. Looking forwards to future iterations of these!
well done gents. to me this is the best video GCN has done. I was a junior TT racer in the 1970s. Aero was "bend down" lol. the history tidbits about the last minute fitting and never used before was mind blowing!!! one thing i would LOVE to learn more about is ... Lemond had the fastest TT in the TDF until Ganna beat it on a short TT. More recently Wout Van Aert...Van Aert crossed the finish line with a blistering average speed of 50.9 kph. The 41.7-kilometer stage from Lacapelle-Marival to Rocamadour was the longest individual time trial since 2014. but lemond...LeMond finished with a time of 26:57 minutes, the fastest-ever time trial in the history of the Tour, at 54.545 km/h (33.893 mph). As LeMond collapsed on the floor from exhaustion, Fignon made his way to the finish. a detailed analysis of the difference, estimated power outputs. how is it possible that Lemond's TT has stood the test of time??? I understand his VO2 max was 92.5 (super high but not an athletic record). no i DO NOT think LeMond was a drug cheater. just an amazing rider. but throw in a mix of LeMond, Merckx, Armstrong (yes yes I know, but still amazing athlete...but i do NOT respect his lies), and now Dan Bingham.... now that would be incredibly interesting. 49.431 km In 1972, Eddy Merckx set a new hour record at 49.431 km (30.715 mi) in Mexico City at an altitude of 2,300 m (7,500 ft) where he proclaimed it to have been "the hardest ride I have ever done". will LOVE seeing the Lotus superbike. HUGE THANK YOU TO THE BIKE OWNER
I understand the purity of pedal-powered shootouts, but seeing clearly how it can be difficult to remove power output as a variable, I would love to see a comparison in a wind tunnel, or with electric motors to lay down consistent and identical power.
I have some Lamondies in my shed, I had no idea of the history. Perhaps a challenge for GCN Tech is to make the fastest time trial bike they can using 90's tech with modern thinking.
I just noticed something interesting to me. It looked like the front wheel on LeMond's bike was built with a 26" Campy Omega XL rim. I noticed that I still have a wheel built from a 700c version of that rim. I could tell from even 10 feet away. PS. When I started riding (in the early 80's), 38cm bars were the standard until somebody came along and said that wider bars would help you breathe better.
Yes I heard that too regarding the bar width. My 1994 Master originally came with wide bars because that was the philosophy when I got fitted. I had the shop change them to 38s because they just felt too weird to me. I also noticed zero benefits as far as being able to breathe better.
They said the wider bars would “open your chest”., which anatomically doesn’t make sense. Your shoulder with the scapula and collarbones essentially floats on top of and around the ribcage, without changing its ability to expand and contract to move air in and out.
Excellent video. Having started road cycling in the 80s and having had Scott aero bars, I wouldn't have guessed that a modern road bike would've been just as fast as a retro time-trial bike. I'm glad for that, as Ollie's comments at 15:00 was the first thought that came to my mind!
Hey @GCN, I have a request for a video. How about you take an older (late 90’s-early 2000’s) frame and check the aero. Then start swapping out modern parts. What do deep section carbon wheels get you? Going to electronic shifting and hiding cables? Etc. Let’s see how much you can improve an older frame with some more modern components. Comparing a new aero frame to an older bike is obvious. But how much will upgrading components on an older frame get you? For those who can’t afford a new bike want to upgrade their beloved frame, how much can you improve it? Turn Ollie loose on this one!!
Greg used the TT bars in the first TT in 1989, Fignon actually had them on his bike before the final stage and took them off. The 7 Eleven team used them before Greg too! I remember Greg saying in 91/92 that testing had showed no difference between the tt bike and standard road bike with clip ons, so there are quite a few pictures of him tting on a normal bike!
Funny you say that, ou are quite right. I also have an ADR Bottechia with the earlier Scott Bars, but it didn't quite fit the narrative. Maybe one for another film. Glad you enjoyed it though - Steve G 👍
LeMond's lowest drag numbers were 5.6 lbs at 30 mph on a standard road bike with hands as far inward on the Scott Drop-In handlebars. Most pro cyclists at the time with around 7 lbs of drag. He had less drag than most small cyclists tested in the wind tunnel.
10:40, love the 1989 metal music. Nice touch. Another excellent video. Camera crew and video production: well done! GCN should do some videos of the people behind the scenes. 💜
That's the 1990 machine, lemond rode his 89 tt on a bottecchia. in 1991 he wasn't on a low profile machine at the tour. He's also trained extensively on the bars prior to the 89 tour, he used them in the first long TT and mountain TT but not the prologue. 7 elevan had been using the bars in the tour of Italy.
Great video guys and roll on the next part. A story I can remember LeMond saying before that TT. He said before it he saw Fignon already celebrating the tour win. LeMond said that gave him the extra drive to show his opponent to not be arrogant.
Is that accurate, the part of Boone Lennon convincing Lemond mid-race to use the bars? I had read he had noticed them at the Tour de Trump being used by 7-Eleven, and had kept them under wraps until the stage 5 TT, which he won to announce, as Liggett said at the time his ''return to the top flight of cycling''. He then used them in the next two TT's, as we all know to eventually win the Tour.
Exactly. When the presenters essentially said he only used them on the final TT stage, that contradicted the many hours I'd spent watching footage from that tour.
Their comments about the gears reminds me of common gearing on bicycles (particularly racing bicycles) of that era. I like the way bicycles are geared now, and so do my knees. Bernard Hinault had knee problems during his career and was known to spin the pedals at about 90 rpm. Hinault's knee issues may have had their origins someplace else, but I can't help but wonder, if the large gears he pushed didn't at least exacerbate an already existing problem.
@@jason200912agree, it’s repetitive strain that’s the issue with cycling, if that’s an issue at all. The difference between a big gear and a small gear on a bike just isn’t enough to be a likely injury cause.
Really cool video! I'm a huge Greg LeMond fan and he will always be my all time favorite professional cyclist. The differences in times surprises me a bit due to the distinct advantage that an aerodynamic position can make. You guys sited a couple determining factors though, such as the importance of training on the specific bike you'll be using in competition and the sizing/positioning adjustments. Another related factor is that Greg LeMond was/is known for using a longer than typical crankarm length which you can obviously see on his bike compared to the Canyon. This could account for both of you feeling "it" more in your hips and the feeling that your knees were coming into your abdomen. I would really love to own Greg's old bike!
hi ollie, i have a tt bike mvery similar to lamont's bike. it was custom built for me and ive ridden it twenty miles a couple of times. at the end i'm in so much pain i can barely walk. it a beautiful bike, it has a pink floyd dark side of the moon paint job on it. its got a campagnello record group set. ive got the bill horn bars but not on it. it has mavic open pro cd wheels. it's pretty fast. if you ever come to arizona you have to see it. it was custom made by one of your country men. the last time i road it i almost couldn't get off it.
Don't believe the negative hype because they functioned good but you needed the 2nd Gen. brake levers to modulate them in a wheel change to open them up.
It was actually the Belgian sports director, José de Cauwer who introduced him to it, and mate it possible for LeMond to ride with them in the final stage!
Lucky bastards got to ride a Lemond TT bike. But this must have been from 1990 or '91, because he wasn't on team Z in '89, and those are the Gen II Scott bars that came out in '90. (I had a pair until my bike got stolen back then) In '89 his bike frame was badged Bottecchia with team ADR. Incidentally, I have a picture signed by Greg to me of him on the bike he rode on that famous TT ride. Love the old C - Record groupo though, and the bike looks awesome. I think he had Mavic components on the '89 TT bike.
I noticed that Lemond's bike was riden with red botle by both riders. But new aero bike was riden without any botle at all. I think this experiment should be redone just because of that.. Nice video anyway, enjoyed watching it.
I remember going to college cycling shop in reno.They had lemonds bike from his first world championship. I was stunned it looked like a bike ace hardware would sell.Much respect to greg.
In the 90's Pinarello did a lot of weird time trial bikes like the Espada for Indurain. Maybe you could try one of those models from the 90's that Ulrich used.
I was just getting into road cycling in the early 90's so that aero bar position looks so iconic to me! Well actually I casually followed track and road cycling since 1983 so I saw major changes in bikes in a very short time.
That is a good remark. There is a lot of discussion in triathlon that the top athletes get these slip stream aero benefits from the lead motorcycle and media motorcycles.
Really enjoyed this video. Well done guys. My preference is always vintage bikes but then I’m a golden oldie. Try one with cow-horns next that should be interesting. George
The poosition might've been extreme, but did look so cool. Anyhow, if you're going to try the Lotus, why not Obree's 'old faithful', that might test suppleness
'89 was the greatest tour. Thing is, (and taking nothing away from Greg, a childhood hero of mine) I don't think Lemond was as strong as Fignon in that race. He was in better shape in '86 and '90 - and in '85 when he gave way to Hinault under team orders (he should have won that tour). On Bastille Day PDM attacked the peleton in the feed zone during a cross wind. Fignon lost the plot and went on a break with Mottet for about 50 kms. I remember watching it live - the yellow jersey attacking off the front on a flat stage! They were caught and Fignon obviously expended a lot of energy. Two days later he rode poorly in a mountain TT, losing 47 seconds to Lemond. It think he lost the tour there and not on the Champs Elsyee. Fignon was third on that final stage and only bested by Lemond and Thierry Marie, a specialist TT'er. It wasn't just TT bars either. Fignon wore no aero helmet and had a saddle sore. Imagine sitting in that position with an ulcer... If he had ridden to form in the mountain TT he could have won the tour. What a warrior. RIP Laurent.
true. Greg was sitting on Fignon's wheel on some of the mountain stages I think. BUT---Greg was on a weak team with no strong riders. Fignon had lots of help from his domestiques. I always wondered if Super U mechanics switched out those bulbous Delta calipers on his TT bike for the Cobalto SR brakes. A weight savings?
Great segment but pretty sure team 7-11 the entire team used them first. Greg also used the bars on the mountain time trial in the middle of the tour that year
It would be a great GCN challenge to see how you got on with Graeme Obrees “chest on bars” old faithful home made bike that he broke the hour record on. See how far you guys could get in 1 hour.
I saw Greg LeMond race a criterium during the Coors Classic (Race Across America) back in 86, right after he won his first TDF. He was a freaking rockstar back then. He was nice as hell, but swamped by crowds looking for an autograph or a pat on the back. He was very nice and patient and a great ambassador for the sport.
I believe Lemond had used his aero bike in one of the earlier time trials in that Tour. I am not sure if that was the first time he was in that position. Love the video. Ollie you are a superstar.
I spoke to a guy who raced with Lemond as a junior in the 70s and said he would have the hardest time trying to catch him racing when he would solo it. He said everytime he would even get close Lemond would signal for him to jump on his wheel already and get a real break started, man was a savage. Gave me one piece of advice that that no matter how hard it may seem DO NOT LET A WINNING MOVE GO. He shortly left cycling before he had a chance to go pro with Lemond but it was a interesting insight nonetheless we had a long conversation on old school styles of riding but it’s too much to write.
Long live cycling lovers world wide & never stop believe in guys, fans are always here to backup you ok? Pushing pedals is the best time of our lives indeed
Lemond had used the bars before that final tt. He rode the prologue without them but did use them to crush the competition in the wet 73km individual TT (stage 5). And he wasn't the first rider to use them either: Andy Hampsten used them in that same ITT and started earlier.
I seem to recall they were called tri-bars at the time Lemond won the Tour. I had a cheap pair which (being nervous) I bolted on to my trike's handlebars to test out but never put them on what I jokingly called my TT bike (an old Mercian with a pair of sprint wheels I'd built). A friend of mine had them on his Mercian when he won the national 24hr TT in 1991 but really used them mostly as a different position - he freewheeled once his computer registered 25 mph to save energy. I was quite amused at Simon's horror at having non-indexed down tube shifters. At least with only 5 (or sometimes 6) sprockets I always knew what gear I was in from the angle of the lever :)
C’mon guys…let’s not attribute Lemond’s win solely to aero bars…he was also one of the ‘80’s best time trialists! (when in form…and he definitely was in form for the ‘89 Tour!!!)
Thank you so much for this massive LeMond fan and I was 21 in 1989, have to agree with others though guys…I’ve raced a lot and still ride with modern tubeless, those old Vittorias are NOT as fast by quite a bit but really wouldn’t want to still be kneeing myself in the chin to go fast so some things are much better 😂
Great vid, although a couple corrections. Vid says Boone Lennon talked Greg into using them on the final stage, but he used them in the stage 5 tt and the uphill tt and the final tt, just not in the prologue. Also it was 89, not 91 and he was on a Bottechia in 89 then on the wonderful tri-color Lemond bike in 90. Slight difference in the Aero bars in 89 than the ones shown in this vid. Sorry, huge nerd here and I have a beautiful 1990 lemond proudly hanging on my wall!
Hearing the summary it is clear that the 'old' aerobike did not fit - Ollie mentioned the hip angle and the knees hitting his chest. Right from the start both last precious time because of the gearing of the old bike. The time difference clearly shows that Simon as an ex-pro just concentrated on the ride and time while the doctor was distacted with aero calculations. I believe there is more potential in the old bike with shorter crankarms, modern wheels with updated tires & latex inner tubes, higher but narrower aerobars etc. Keep up the interesting work!
I don't follow road racing, but anything with the USA's 2nd Greatest Cyclist (Greg Lemond) is worth watching. I enjoyed his biography. The USA's Greatest Cyclist was Major Taylor.
Fignon had been battling with saddle sores, which were said to have caused him so much pain that he was unable to sleep the night before the time trial. they had to cut part of the saddle to make it ok enough for him to sit. i think people often forget that and talk about the tt bars. but i suspect that if you can't sit comfortably , it would be extremely hard to ride a bike, let alone fast ( and even though he lost it by 50 seconds he was still fast )
I thought Fignon lost by 8 seconds - Lemond was 50 seconds behind on GC at the start of the TT. Shame everyone remembers Fignon as the man who lost the Tour by 8 seconds, not the man who won the Tour twice!
@@justinbrown6558 Sorry my mistake. My point was that it was unlikely his saddle sores had much to do with his performance. His double disc wheel and not wearing a helmet probably had a bigger impact.
Still love and ride my old steel bikes with my friends on their composite bikes. No problem. It might be different if I were a serious racer, but I just do the odd gravel race once in a while, sometimes with the full fenders. At least I’m the cleanest at the finish.
You guys failed to mention Lemond's 89 TT bike is 26 lbs (12 kg). I saw Greg and Phil Liggett at in San Francisco at the Tour of California. Greg was doing an 89 Tour recap with Phil. Greg had this bike on display in the lobby and Greg descibed the bike in detail. He got it painted "Z" colors because he changed teams in 1990, but assured the audience that it was the exact same bike as he rode in the 89 Tour final TT. The modern bike is likely 17 lb (7.7 kg). So, Greg's 89 TT bike is almost double the weight compared to the modern bike. These are sgnificant pieces of information (weight and color of the bike - ie it is different than the 89 final TT) that are missing in this video.
Greg also described that his aero Giro helmet tail had to be cut off to satisfy the "Tour regulators". And he described it as a parachute when he had his head down. It was ok when he looked up. But more than half the TT, his head was down. Greg said that is the one thing he would change - the Giro "aero" helmet.
The weight surprisingly doesn’t do much at fairly constant speed of the TT. The main difference in the bikes is is the carbon fiber power transfer far superior.
@@NoreenHoltzen OK. If you were had to ride the same route (with a standing start and at least 5 corners to slow down and accelerate out of, also it's not totally flat) and were offered $1 M to break 12 minutes, and you had a choice of 2 bikes - one at 17 lbs and the other at 26 lbs, you would choose the 17 lb bike 100% of the time. Weight does matter in the real world.
Having been on the Champs, for the final stage in '89, I knew right off that's not the bike from '89. It was subtle, but near the end they did say it's Lemonds bike from '91. Enjoyed that guy's, cheers.
@@johnwestwell2241 yes. He was riding for ADR IN 89. It was a Belgian team with a small-ish budget, because most-if not all of the big team directors at the time said that LeMond was finished. His last big team before his ‘89 win was the Dutch PDM team in 88. But in the end they wrote him off too, by the time ‘89 came round the contracts were scarce… I was 15 at the time, and LeMond was my hero too. Ever since he won in 86 against Hinault (it was the first time the Tour was televised on British tv) I’ve followed him.
By far the biggest cause of drag on a bike is the rider themselves. Having 'aero' frames, wheels and such isn't going to make a huge difference in itself. Rider position, gearing, frame and wheel stiffness plus tyre compound have far more effect. The biggest problems with this test are that neither rider is used to riding in that position, and the bike itself was built specifically to suit LeMond. Much like when going from an upright road bike to a recumbent, until your body gets used to the very different riding position and muscle use, you will go slower, despite the improved aerodynamics.
Absolutely. Even though I think it wasn't the aim, this video demonstrates something quite important: it's not about the bike, but how the bike fits. If both presenters were riding a bike too big and were unable to put the power down or breathe properly (and notice how Ollie is the shortest and had the larger gap too), then it becomes very difficult to match a well fitted bike, regardless of specs. I bet Si and Ollie in a good fitting bike from that age would be 'faster' than anything that Conor rides... I notice club chats from people with perfectly decent bikes are so much about about how another steed is "better" and how the current one is slowing them down. In reality, the most aero frame will provide very little if it needs 6cm of spacers under the handlebars and cannot be ridden comfortably... Somehow I rarely hear anything about having another bike because it will fit them better... Or better fitting clothing or better training..
That position is known as the flat back in modern dance and gets used extensively by choreographers like Alvin Ailey. I had an actor friend who took classes with Ailey and ended up throwing her back out so badly she could not walk upright. She was not even 30 yet and walked bent completely in half for a few weeks. That's how brutal that position is on the body and even with the convenience of a saddle, I don't think it would get better. You need a strong core and strong back. (They should be glad they don't have breasts.)
I'd agree except that Si put out the identical power output and the LeMond bike, with its boxy front wheel and other aerodynamic problems like round tubes, was slower than the Aeroad. And at a higher power output (what LeMond would have put out) and LeMond's higher speed, the aerodynamics would matter even more. If frames and wheels didn't matter then cyclists would still be riding on these old bangers.
Which of these bikes would you choose to ride?
Love to ride Greg's amazing bike (he's a real American hero) but it would kill me.
I'd love to kick it old school style... I'd need to do some serious training though and even then I don't think I could bring any honor to the racing heritage given my vintage. :'(
Even though I'm married to a physio I think 🤔 the modern bike looks more survivable in the long term.
Canyon. I rode the aero a couple of times back about '92 or '93 and narrowly escaped death. If you need to slow down in a hurry you're likely to soil yourself before you find the brakes.
Definitely the modern bike. My current road bike is a mid 90's Colnago and I've reached the point where the 25c tires (largest that will fit and clear the chain stays and fork) are just brutal to ride on vs. the 32c tires on my "all road" bike. I do prefer the lower riding position of the Colnago, so at some point in 2023 I'll likely be shopping for a new, modern road bike.
In Polish aero bars are even called "lemondka", which translates roughly to "Lemond's" :D
Wow, we did not know that. Very cool!
Greg lemond's bike... what a timeless beauty
Agreed! Something to also keep in mind while riding bikes are helmets. Most people wear cpsc helmets (which arent safe), when they should be actually wearing an nta helmet like xnito or bern
The 7-Eleven team were experimenting with aero bars made by Profile for Speed. They were going to pull them out at the Tour de France in 1989 as their secret weapon. They ended up using them in the Tour de Trump that May because Dag Otto Lauritzen held a narrow lead going into the final time trial, and the 7-Eleven team were trying to take top team honors. Greg took notice of how fast the 7-Eleven team was in that TT. He practiced with them before the Tour. Look at photos of his TT bike in the prologue of 1989. The finish on the Cow horn bars is worn off a bit from the clamps of the TT bars. Greg used the TT bars in the 3 TT's in the tour (minus the prologue). They experimented with the length, and angle and armrests at each TT. Still, an amazing decision to go with the bars. The rest, as they say, is history.
Proud to say that I was there on the final day of the 89 TdF and witnessed history in the making!
Ditto! Our USAF Club out of Hahn Air Base (Rheinland-Plfalz) stayed in Versailles for that epic stage. The crowd gasped when LeMond came flying by after Delgado went by. Awesome day!
Also there, hitchhike from Munich, on the way to a buddies in Canterbury.
That must have been an amazing experience!
@@gcn It was. I was sat aloft the Golden Joan of Arc statue (now cordoned off to the public on race day), just as the riders came out of the underpass. At the finish line, Greg’s mechanic allowed me to hold his TT bike above my head for photos! Sadly, you can rarely get that level of access these days.
I had to watch it on The Wide World of Sports, but later that year I was in Paris and saw Fignon swaggering in Monmartre. I think the man was incapable of merely walking.
The friction between Si and Ollie in this video is the same as trying to ride a 32c tyre in a 90s road frame 😳
The battle to be the _aero-est_ GCN presenter!! 🤣
Greg Lemond is criminally overlooked as one of the greatest ever. The man has the greatest comeback story in the history of the sport and if not for that freak accident and him being used and lied to by his team he'd easy have the most Tour de France victories. The man was an absolute animal.
😂
Coming back from the accident alone was some achievement!
Over looked by who? I think the fans and the riders of the time appreciate him and his legacy. His reputation took a hit from not buying in on what Armstrong was doing, so Trek tried to push him out to protect their main interests.
He was also unfairly treated by the ENTIRE cycling community for daring saying Lance Armstrong was clearly doped when every sign pointed to it and kept to his word
He was amazing
that Lemond rear wheel sounds amazing, thats got to be worth 20watts just for sounding fast?
Fairly sure that’s how it works, yeah.
oh shit, ive been listening to music on my solo rides, so all the gains from my new aero wheels arent even there when i cant hear them??
I'd love to see a Modern TT bike vs Retro TT bike. Or maybe even a Classic Cinelli track racer versus the Lotus/Argon18 "Rocketships" of today. Could even add something like the Lotii of the 90's
Just to see just how much faster bike tech has gotten, and how much slower riders would be
That's probably not a thing the sponsors would like -.-
In '89, I was on the Champs Élysées watching Lemond win the Tour !
And I did have a pair of those Scott bars on my old road bike.
The first pros to use tri-bars (aero TT bars) in a TT were the 7-Eleven pros in the _second_ and final TT of the 1989 Tour de Trump.
Lemond took note and along with the 7-Eleven team used them two months later in the Tour de France.
And I don't think it's true that Lemond was convinced to use the bars mid TDF. At the time, I remember watching an interview with him where he said he noticed the amateur
racers -- while the 7-Eleven riders were the first _pros_ to use them, the amateurs in the TDT used them in the first TT of the TDT -- use them in the '89 Tour de Trump and saw the advantage they provided.
He no doubt had been using the bars well before he used them in TDF two months later.
I agree with you ... I am fairly certain both Lemond and some of the 7-Eleven guys used the Scott aero bars in the earlier TT stage in the 1989 Tour.
You are correct. The 7-Eleven team were experimenting with aero bars made by Profile for Speed. They were going to pull them out at the Tour de France in 1989 as their secret weapon. They ended up using them in the Tour de Trump that May because Dag Otto Lauritzen held a narrow lead going into the final time trial, and the 7-Eleven team were trying to take top team honors. Greg took notice of how fast the 7-Eleven team was in that TT. He practiced with them before the Tour. Look at photos of his TT bike in the prologue of 1989. The finish on the Cow horn bars is worn off a bit from the clamps of the TT bars. Greg used the TT bars in the 3 TT's in the tour (minus the prologue). They experimented with the length, and angle and armrests at each TT. Still, an amazing decision to go with the bars. The rest, as they say, is history.
@@darinbusse7591 yeah, but the first to use tri-bars in a pro TT were US _amateurs_ . Kent Bostick used them to get on the podium on stage 7 of the '89 TDT.
And Lemond credited the amateurs with opening his eyes to the aero advantage of tri-bars. I'm sure 7-Eleven using them in the TDT final TT helped, but I doubt he'd -- at least while racing -- credit his pro rivals with that revelation. 😅
@@ronm9357 Good memory! I do remember that now that you mention it. Thank you for the reminder that Kent Bostick did use aero bars in the TT in the middle of the Tour de Trump.
@@darinbusse7591 I had about 5 hours of that race on VHS -- footage from both NBC and ESPN. I watched and re-watched it _way_ more than I like to admit.
Oooooh, I can't wait for the Lotus!!!! Brilliant series, guys, hat off!!
His average speed for that tt was 54.4kph, which would be a very fast tt today! He also used the Aero bars in the first 2 tt's of the tour that year. The coke can shimming was done after stage 5 when they had slipped, so by the final stage they were dialed in.
I had a pair of the Scott clip ons on my road bike back in the late 80s. Loved them!
What a treat to start off the weekend! Watching LeMond win the TT in '89 was one of the pivotal moments in my cycling life. I remember how the chat about this was all over school the next day. Everybody wanted to stick LeMondies on their bikes.
One of, if not, _the most_ iconic TdF stages of all time!
Glad you did another one of these, I mentioned in your other video I recently picked up a early 2000's Quintana Roo for $120 so I'm really interested in where the crossover point is. It's crazy to think that I could potentially go faster on a $120 20 year old TT bike than a top end modern road bike.
I think with shifting at the bars and a more modern geometry should do the tick.
Looking forwards to future iterations of these!
well done gents. to me this is the best video GCN has done. I was a junior TT racer in the 1970s. Aero was "bend down" lol. the history tidbits about the last minute fitting and never used before was mind blowing!!! one thing i would LOVE to learn more about is ... Lemond had the fastest TT in the TDF until Ganna beat it on a short TT. More recently Wout Van Aert...Van Aert crossed the finish line with a blistering average speed of 50.9 kph. The 41.7-kilometer stage from Lacapelle-Marival to Rocamadour was the longest individual time trial since 2014.
but lemond...LeMond finished with a time of 26:57 minutes, the fastest-ever time trial in the history of the Tour, at 54.545 km/h (33.893 mph). As LeMond collapsed on the floor from exhaustion, Fignon made his way to the finish.
a detailed analysis of the difference, estimated power outputs. how is it possible that Lemond's TT has stood the test of time??? I understand his VO2 max was 92.5 (super high but not an athletic record).
no i DO NOT think LeMond was a drug cheater. just an amazing rider.
but throw in a mix of LeMond, Merckx, Armstrong (yes yes I know, but still amazing athlete...but i do NOT respect his lies), and now Dan Bingham.... now that would be incredibly interesting.
49.431 km
In 1972, Eddy Merckx set a new hour record at 49.431 km (30.715 mi) in Mexico City at an altitude of 2,300 m (7,500 ft) where he proclaimed it to have been "the hardest ride I have ever done".
will LOVE seeing the Lotus superbike.
HUGE THANK YOU TO THE BIKE OWNER
Wasn't LeMond's TT slightly downhill, or flat, all the way?
Thanks so much! 👍
I understand the purity of pedal-powered shootouts, but seeing clearly how it can be difficult to remove power output as a variable, I would love to see a comparison in a wind tunnel, or with electric motors to lay down consistent and identical power.
Ya at least a power meter on both to have an avg watts to determine a different avg speed
I love the sound of that disc wheel
I have some Lamondies in my shed, I had no idea of the history. Perhaps a challenge for GCN Tech is to make the fastest time trial bike they can using 90's tech with modern thinking.
I just noticed something interesting to me. It looked like the front wheel on LeMond's bike was built with a 26" Campy Omega XL rim. I noticed that I still have a wheel built from a 700c version of that rim. I could tell from even 10 feet away. PS. When I started riding (in the early 80's), 38cm bars were the standard until somebody came along and said that wider bars would help you breathe better.
Yes I heard that too regarding the bar width. My 1994 Master originally came with wide bars because that was the philosophy when I got fitted. I had the shop change them to 38s because they just felt too weird to me. I also noticed zero benefits as far as being able to breathe better.
They said the wider bars would “open your chest”., which anatomically doesn’t make sense. Your shoulder with the scapula and collarbones essentially floats on top of and around the ribcage, without changing its ability to expand and contract to move air in and out.
Excellent video. Having started road cycling in the 80s and having had Scott aero bars, I wouldn't have guessed that a modern road bike would've been just as fast as a retro time-trial bike. I'm glad for that, as Ollie's comments at 15:00 was the first thought that came to my mind!
Thanks Todd!
It’s not the bike, it’s the motor!!!
Hey @GCN, I have a request for a video. How about you take an older (late 90’s-early 2000’s) frame and check the aero. Then start swapping out modern parts.
What do deep section carbon wheels get you? Going to electronic shifting and hiding cables? Etc. Let’s see how much you can improve an older frame with some more modern components.
Comparing a new aero frame to an older bike is obvious. But how much will upgrading components on an older frame get you?
For those who can’t afford a new bike want to upgrade their beloved frame, how much can you improve it?
Turn Ollie loose on this one!!
Greg used the TT bars in the first TT in 1989, Fignon actually had them on his bike before the final stage and took them off. The 7 Eleven team used them before Greg too! I remember Greg saying in 91/92 that testing had showed no difference between the tt bike and standard road bike with clip ons, so there are quite a few pictures of him tting on a normal bike!
True, from 91 until on he pretty much used a road bike frame for TT's.
And US amateurs used them at the '89 Tour de Trump _before_ the 7-Eleven pros.
yup. hampsten had em on his bike . . .
Funny you say that, ou are quite right. I also have an ADR Bottechia with the earlier Scott Bars, but it didn't quite fit the narrative. Maybe one for another film. Glad you enjoyed it though - Steve G 👍
LeMond's lowest drag numbers were 5.6 lbs at 30 mph on a standard road bike with hands as far inward on the Scott Drop-In handlebars. Most pro cyclists at the time with around 7 lbs of drag. He had less drag than most small cyclists tested in the wind tunnel.
10:40, love the 1989 metal music. Nice touch. Another excellent video. Camera crew and video production: well done! GCN should do some videos of the people behind the scenes. 💜
That's the 1990 machine, lemond rode his 89 tt on a bottecchia. in 1991 he wasn't on a low profile machine at the tour. He's also trained extensively on the bars prior to the 89 tour, he used them in the first long TT and mountain TT but not the prologue. 7 elevan had been using the bars in the tour of Italy.
The Entire content is very nice, but the scene at 11:10 is delightful. I'm a permanent viewer of your channel. Thanks again for your Work for Us!
Great video guys and roll on the next part. A story I can remember LeMond saying before that TT. He said before it he saw Fignon already celebrating the tour win. LeMond said that gave him the extra drive to show his opponent to not be arrogant.
Thx 4 the story
Is that accurate, the part of Boone Lennon convincing Lemond mid-race to use the bars? I had read he had noticed them at the Tour de Trump being used by 7-Eleven, and had kept them under wraps until the stage 5 TT, which he won to announce, as Liggett said at the time his ''return to the top flight of cycling''. He then used them in the next two TT's, as we all know to eventually win the Tour.
Exactly. When the presenters essentially said he only used them on the final TT stage, that contradicted the many hours I'd spent watching footage from that tour.
@14:10 actually, LeMond first used the aerobars to win 1989's TdF Stage 5 ITT.
Their comments about the gears reminds me of common gearing on bicycles (particularly racing bicycles) of that era. I like the way bicycles are geared now, and so do my knees. Bernard Hinault had knee problems during his career and was known to spin the pedals at about 90 rpm. Hinault's knee issues may have had their origins someplace else, but I can't help but wonder, if the large gears he pushed didn't at least exacerbate an already existing problem.
The only time you get knee problems are if you set the seat too low or at medium height
@@jason200912agree, it’s repetitive strain that’s the issue with cycling, if that’s an issue at all. The difference between a big gear and a small gear on a bike just isn’t enough to be a likely injury cause.
Really cool video! I'm a huge Greg LeMond fan and he will always be my all time favorite professional cyclist. The differences in times surprises me a bit due to the distinct advantage that an aerodynamic position can make. You guys sited a couple determining factors though, such as the importance of training on the specific bike you'll be using in competition and the sizing/positioning adjustments. Another related factor is that Greg LeMond was/is known for using a longer than typical crankarm length which you can obviously see on his bike compared to the Canyon. This could account for both of you feeling "it" more in your hips and the feeling that your knees were coming into your abdomen. I would really love to own Greg's old bike!
Thanks Ollie , Si and crew......
GREAT EPISODE!!!! Great Music! Great Sound Design! Cheers mates!
Completely unfair competition. You guys left the water bottle on the Greg LeMond bike! Haha. Great video.
Classic video. Loved the jokes, the banter, the amazing bike lend from that bike shop guy in the GCN+ video.
Had a shorter with a 650c front wheel and my knees would come up to my chest back in the late 90's. So fast.
hi ollie, i have a tt bike mvery similar to lamont's bike. it was custom built for me and ive ridden it twenty miles a couple of times. at the end i'm in so much pain i can barely walk. it a beautiful bike, it has a pink floyd dark side of the moon paint job on it. its got a campagnello record group set. ive got the bill horn bars but not on it. it has mavic open pro cd wheels. it's pretty fast. if you ever come to arizona you have to see it. it was custom made by one of your country men. the last time i road it i almost couldn't get off it.
Ooooh man, Campy Delta brakes. What a colossal nightmare.
Don't believe the negative hype because they functioned good but you needed the 2nd Gen. brake levers to modulate them in a wheel change to open them up.
Looks like a fair bit of drafting behind the GCN Moto going on there!
It was actually the Belgian sports director, José de Cauwer who introduced him to it, and mate it possible for LeMond to ride with them in the final stage!
Actually “invented” by American Boone Lennon,
Lucky bastards got to ride a Lemond TT bike. But this must have been from 1990 or '91, because he wasn't on team Z in '89, and those are the Gen II Scott bars that came out in '90. (I had a pair until my bike got stolen back then) In '89 his bike frame was badged Bottecchia with team ADR. Incidentally, I have a picture signed by Greg to me of him on the bike he rode on that famous TT ride. Love the old C - Record groupo though, and the bike looks awesome. I think he had Mavic components on the '89 TT bike.
I noticed that Lemond's bike was riden with red botle by both riders. But new aero bike was riden without any botle at all. I think this experiment should be redone just because of that..
Nice video anyway, enjoyed watching it.
I remember going to college cycling shop in reno.They had lemonds bike from his first world championship. I was stunned it looked like a bike ace hardware would sell.Much respect to greg.
Let's get GTN to give this a go with a modern TT bike vs retro TT bike. They're already comfortable in that position.
They are comfortable on TT bikes. Modern TT bikes and retro ones have different geometry.
@@DaveCM very true haha.
In the 90's Pinarello did a lot of weird time trial bikes like the Espada for Indurain. Maybe you could try one of those models from the 90's that Ulrich used.
I was just getting into road cycling in the early 90's so that aero bar position looks so iconic to me! Well actually I casually followed track and road cycling since 1983 so I saw major changes in bikes in a very short time.
that cameraman influences all those times on such a measurement,
the slipstream at those speeds is immense.
That is a good remark. There is a lot of discussion in triathlon that the top athletes get these slip stream aero benefits from the lead motorcycle and media motorcycles.
12:11 "Channel 90s American rock!"
*hums 'The Chain' by Fleetwood Mac from 1977* :-)
Really enjoyed this video. Well done guys. My preference is always vintage bikes but then I’m a golden oldie. Try one with cow-horns next that should be interesting. George
The poosition might've been extreme, but did look so cool. Anyhow, if you're going to try the Lotus, why not Obree's 'old faithful', that might test suppleness
So wotcha got for tyres on the Lemond? Retro tyres? How do they compare for rolling resistance?
'89 was the greatest tour. Thing is, (and taking nothing away from Greg, a childhood hero of mine) I don't think Lemond was as strong as Fignon in that race. He was in better shape in '86 and '90 - and in '85 when he gave way to Hinault under team orders (he should have won that tour). On Bastille Day PDM attacked the peleton in the feed zone during a cross wind. Fignon lost the plot and went on a break with Mottet for about 50 kms. I remember watching it live - the yellow jersey attacking off the front on a flat stage! They were caught and Fignon obviously expended a lot of energy. Two days later he rode poorly in a mountain TT, losing 47 seconds to Lemond. It think he lost the tour there and not on the Champs Elsyee. Fignon was third on that final stage and only bested by Lemond and Thierry Marie, a specialist TT'er. It wasn't just TT bars either. Fignon wore no aero helmet and had a saddle sore. Imagine sitting in that position with an ulcer... If he had ridden to form in the mountain TT he could have won the tour. What a warrior. RIP Laurent.
true. Greg was sitting on Fignon's wheel on some of the mountain stages I think. BUT---Greg was on a weak team with no strong riders. Fignon had lots of help from his domestiques. I always wondered if Super U mechanics switched out those bulbous Delta calipers on his TT bike for the Cobalto SR brakes. A weight savings?
@@ralphc1405 I agree that the ADR lads went missing as soon as the road went uphill. The Deltas looked great but weren't great at stopping the bike...
Great segment but pretty sure team 7-11 the entire team used them first. Greg also used the bars on the mountain time trial in the middle of the tour that year
It would be a great GCN challenge to see how you got on with Graeme Obrees “chest on bars” old faithful home made bike that he broke the hour record on. See how far you guys could get in 1 hour.
I saw Greg LeMond race a criterium during the Coors Classic (Race Across America) back in 86, right after he won his first TDF. He was a freaking rockstar back then. He was nice as hell, but swamped by crowds looking for an autograph or a pat on the back. He was very nice and patient and a great ambassador for the sport.
I believe Lemond had used his aero bike in one of the earlier time trials in that Tour. I am not sure if that was the first time he was in that position. Love the video. Ollie you are a superstar.
I spoke to a guy who raced with Lemond as a junior in the 70s and said he would have the hardest time trying to catch him racing when he would solo it. He said everytime he would even get close Lemond would signal for him to jump on his wheel already and get a real break started, man was a savage. Gave me one piece of advice that that no matter how hard it may seem DO NOT LET A WINNING MOVE GO. He shortly left cycling before he had a chance to go pro with Lemond but it was a interesting insight nonetheless we had a long conversation on old school styles of riding but it’s too much to write.
Great video! Would love to see a retro TT bike vs a modern, entry-level enthusiast road bike to see how much the tech has trickled down.
That would be interesting to see!
Greg Lemond's ALL LIFE LONG!!!!
Simply amazing. Stunning. Beautiful!!!
Vintage rulez!!!
“Shonky mafs” possibly my favorite GCN moment
Lemond's revolutionary tt bike in the 1989 tdf was a Bottecchia. it had more aero body. The tt bike used here was available only in 1990.
Long live cycling lovers world wide & never stop believe in guys, fans are always here to backup you ok? Pushing pedals is the best time of our lives indeed
Lemond had used the bars before that final tt. He rode the prologue without them but did use them to crush the competition in the wet 73km individual TT (stage 5).
And he wasn't the first rider to use them either: Andy Hampsten used them in that same ITT and started earlier.
The music when Ollie was riding the AeRoad was superb
I seem to recall they were called tri-bars at the time Lemond won the Tour. I had a cheap pair which (being nervous) I bolted on to my trike's handlebars to test out but never put them on what I jokingly called my TT bike (an old Mercian with a pair of sprint wheels I'd built). A friend of mine had them on his Mercian when he won the national 24hr TT in 1991 but really used them mostly as a different position - he freewheeled once his computer registered 25 mph to save energy.
I was quite amused at Simon's horror at having non-indexed down tube shifters. At least with only 5 (or sometimes 6) sprockets I always knew what gear I was in from the angle of the lever :)
This is the first time I heard whop2 whop sound of a disc wheel. and it came out of a background sound, making it more impressive.
Thanks for another great video. I channel my inner Greg LaMond frequently! 😉
C’mon guys…let’s not attribute Lemond’s win solely to aero bars…he was also one of the ‘80’s best time trialists! (when in form…and he definitely was in form for the ‘89 Tour!!!)
Waiting on the Lotus! Thanks for doing these - fun!!
Thank you so much for this massive LeMond fan and I was 21 in 1989, have to agree with others though guys…I’ve raced a lot and still ride with modern tubeless, those old Vittorias are NOT as fast by quite a bit but really wouldn’t want to still be kneeing myself in the chin to go fast so some things are much better 😂
Ahhhh much better comparison. Good stuff.
Rewatching this while ordering retro parts for my Roberts lo pro frameset.
Nice idea with the Boardman LOTUS, but you probably need to train into the position to make it relevant. Great videos. :)
Great vid, although a couple corrections. Vid says Boone Lennon talked Greg into using them on the final stage, but he used them in the stage 5 tt and the uphill tt and the final tt, just not in the prologue. Also it was 89, not 91 and he was on a Bottechia in 89 then on the wonderful tri-color Lemond bike in 90. Slight difference in the Aero bars in 89 than the ones shown in this vid. Sorry, huge nerd here and I have a beautiful 1990 lemond proudly hanging on my wall!
I love watching GCN but lately I’ve starting experimenting with watching GTN…..I think I’m Tri curious 😂
It's just a phase 😉 it looks great with all the toys and fancy outfits but I bet the chafing is worse 😂
You must try adding some modern parts on classic time trial
Now the “ski bend” name makes total sense. I always thought it was just because it was shaped like a ski.
Hearing the summary it is clear that the 'old' aerobike did not fit - Ollie mentioned the hip angle and the knees hitting his chest.
Right from the start both last precious time because of the gearing of the old bike.
The time difference clearly shows that Simon as an ex-pro just concentrated on the ride and time while the doctor was distacted with aero calculations.
I believe there is more potential in the old bike with shorter crankarms, modern wheels with updated tires & latex inner tubes, higher but narrower aerobars etc.
Keep up the interesting work!
I don't follow road racing, but anything with the USA's 2nd Greatest Cyclist (Greg Lemond) is worth watching. I enjoyed his biography. The USA's Greatest Cyclist was Major Taylor.
Arguable. GT winners generally receive more acclaim than sprinters.
Two absolute legends of cycling!
LeMond used aero bars in the '89 TdF before the final TT. At least on the TT stage that got him his first yellow jersey after the shooting accident.
Curious the crank length on Lemond's TT bike? 177.5 maybe
As aerodynamic as possible given the UCI meddling that is.
How much of an aero penalty on Lemonds bike, was that water bottle?
Those Aeroads are so awesome
Fignon had been battling with saddle sores, which were said to have caused him so much pain that he was unable to sleep the night before the time trial. they had to cut part of the saddle to make it ok enough for him to sit. i think people often forget that and talk about the tt bars. but i suspect that if you can't sit comfortably , it would be extremely hard to ride a bike, let alone fast ( and even though he lost it by 50 seconds he was still fast )
If Fignon had shaved his head he might have won due to reduced drag.
He had the second fastest time, only Lemond's ride was faster. I doubt very much that Fignon's saddle sores had much of an effect on his tide.
I thought Fignon lost by 8 seconds - Lemond was 50 seconds behind on GC at the start of the TT. Shame everyone remembers Fignon as the man who lost the Tour by 8 seconds, not the man who won the Tour twice!
@@stevenmeyer9674 Thierry Marie came second, Fignon was third fastest.
@@justinbrown6558 Sorry my mistake. My point was that it was unlikely his saddle sores had much to do with his performance. His double disc wheel and not wearing a helmet probably had a bigger impact.
just put modern carbon deep section wheels on it and the difference will most likely be so close if not out performening canyon aeoro bike
Greg Lemond a legend for sure!! Old bikes from that era is like a rock hammer compare to the latest satellite in space. Evolution is real !!!
Still love and ride my old steel bikes with my friends on their composite bikes. No problem. It might be different if I were a serious racer, but I just do the odd gravel race once in a while, sometimes with the full fenders. At least I’m the cleanest at the finish.
Greg Lemond used a Bottecchia with Mavic components in that 1989 time trail !!!
Problem is... they both rode the canyon 1st. Maybe if they reversed at least one rider to start on the TT bike?
yep.....the TT is faster....i own 2
Could be good to see the speed difference between Mountain Bikes and Gravel Bikes in a similar environment
Great video but I think Greg used them earlier in the 89 Tour as well?
Awesome video! Time to unleash the Lotus!!
You guys failed to mention Lemond's 89 TT bike is 26 lbs (12 kg). I saw Greg and Phil Liggett at in San Francisco at the Tour of California. Greg was doing an 89 Tour recap with Phil. Greg had this bike on display in the lobby and Greg descibed the bike in detail. He got it painted "Z" colors because he changed teams in 1990, but assured the audience that it was the exact same bike as he rode in the 89 Tour final TT. The modern bike is likely 17 lb (7.7 kg). So, Greg's 89 TT bike is almost double the weight compared to the modern bike. These are sgnificant pieces of information (weight and color of the bike - ie it is different than the 89 final TT) that are missing in this video.
Greg also described that his aero Giro helmet tail had to be cut off to satisfy the "Tour regulators". And he described it as a parachute when he had his head down. It was ok when he looked up. But more than half the TT, his head was down. Greg said that is the one thing he would change - the Giro "aero" helmet.
The weight surprisingly doesn’t do much at fairly constant speed of the TT. The main difference in the bikes is is the carbon fiber power transfer far superior.
@@NoreenHoltzen OK. If you were had to ride the same route (with a standing start and at least 5 corners to slow down and accelerate out of, also it's not totally flat) and were offered $1 M to break 12 minutes, and you had a choice of 2 bikes - one at 17 lbs and the other at 26 lbs, you would choose the 17 lb bike 100% of the time. Weight does matter in the real world.
Is it really 12kg? I can't find any info on its weight online.
These handlebars are called "lemondki" in Poland :)
Thanks for doing this and next please the forbidden TT bike from the past :)!
Excellent video. No offense lads, but would have been better with Manon somewhere. Maybe as race marshal. Everything's better with Manon.
Having been on the Champs, for the final stage in '89, I knew right off that's not the bike from '89. It was subtle, but near the end they did say it's Lemonds bike from '91. Enjoyed that guy's, cheers.
The bike GCN rode was in 'Z' colours. From memory, Lemond was riding Bottechia-branded bikes in the '89 Tour.
@@johnwestwell2241 yes. He was riding for ADR IN 89. It was a Belgian team with a small-ish budget, because most-if not all of the big team directors at the time said that LeMond was finished. His last big team before his ‘89 win was the Dutch PDM team in 88. But in the end they wrote him off too, by the time ‘89 came round the contracts were scarce… I was 15 at the time, and LeMond was my hero too. Ever since he won in 86 against Hinault (it was the first time the Tour was televised on British tv) I’ve followed him.
Huge thumbs up for soundtrack in this video
Thanks Vasilii!
By far the biggest cause of drag on a bike is the rider themselves. Having 'aero' frames, wheels and such isn't going to make a huge difference in itself. Rider position, gearing, frame and wheel stiffness plus tyre compound have far more effect. The biggest problems with this test are that neither rider is used to riding in that position, and the bike itself was built specifically to suit LeMond. Much like when going from an upright road bike to a recumbent, until your body gets used to the very different riding position and muscle use, you will go slower, despite the improved aerodynamics.
Absolutely. Even though I think it wasn't the aim, this video demonstrates something quite important: it's not about the bike, but how the bike fits. If both presenters were riding a bike too big and were unable to put the power down or breathe properly (and notice how Ollie is the shortest and had the larger gap too), then it becomes very difficult to match a well fitted bike, regardless of specs. I bet Si and Ollie in a good fitting bike from that age would be 'faster' than anything that Conor rides...
I notice club chats from people with perfectly decent bikes are so much about about how another steed is "better" and how the current one is slowing them down. In reality, the most aero frame will provide very little if it needs 6cm of spacers under the handlebars and cannot be ridden comfortably... Somehow I rarely hear anything about having another bike because it will fit them better... Or better fitting clothing or better training..
That position is known as the flat back in modern dance and gets used extensively by choreographers like Alvin Ailey. I had an actor friend who took classes with Ailey and ended up throwing her back out so badly she could not walk upright. She was not even 30 yet and walked bent completely in half for a few weeks. That's how brutal that position is on the body and even with the convenience of a saddle, I don't think it would get better. You need a strong core and strong back. (They should be glad they don't have breasts.)
I'd agree except that Si put out the identical power output and the LeMond bike, with its boxy front wheel and other aerodynamic problems like round tubes, was slower than the Aeroad.
And at a higher power output (what LeMond would have put out) and LeMond's higher speed, the aerodynamics would matter even more. If frames and wheels didn't matter then cyclists would still be riding on these old bangers.
Exactly. Glad Ollie did mention it in 17:31