Radical, Cheap, BANNED! | Did The UCI Ruin Road Bikes Forever?
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- Опубликовано: 13 июн 2024
- Si & Ollie are back for another edition of retro vs modern, this time riding the Giant MCR, a road bike so forward-thinking it was banned by the UCI. With a carbon monocoque frame design, it was the original mass-produced aero road bike back in 1997. We pitted it against a modern Pinarello F to find out just how fast this retro aero machine is compared to today’s engineering!
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00:00 Intro
01:49 Giant MCR
12:34 Pinarello F
14:46 Results
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Which of these bikes would you rather ride? 🚲👇
Whichever is the more efficient! I actually support the UCI policy on accessibility of bikes, but if this particular box-frame design can be mass produced cost-effectively (as Giant seem to have demonstrated) I dont see why it should be banned. 🤔It’s still recognisably a bicycle, with two wheels, pedals, handlebar and a seat. What’s the problem? Why such loyalty to the double triangle frame shape….itself a radical innovation in its day?🤷♂️
For me it would be the Giant MCR. I could walk into a store one day and purchase a Pinarello F and I know I wouldn't regret it. I could ride the MCR and have a blast with it; but there's no way I could ever find one to purchase.
Giant MCR all the way
The Giant for sure.
If I'm racing any distance and want to win - the Pinarello, no question. If I want to strike up conversation at the pub/cafe a few blocks away - the Giant.
4:10 Not only is Stuart incredibly generous in making his bike available for GCN to test, he's an awesome starter as well.
My thoughts exactly!
Not a big speaking part… beep, beep, beep, beeeeep!
@@StuartMossTV but you nailed it!
Plus Stuart let them fiddle around with the wheels on the side of the road. Probably not part of the original bargain.
@Stuart Moss You're too modest Stuart. I saw your interview with Ollie in the other video - definitely a speaking part.
Mike Burrows was to thank for pretty much every significant and radical bike design which actually revolutionised bike development. Lotus 108, 110, giant MCR, Giant TCR etc. What a hero, rest in peace
Isn't that a bit of an exaggerated claim? Some of the most significant big changes in bike design that have stuck until today happened before Mike Burrows was born...
8
L) p
I remember these were popular for Triathlons at the time
Giant TCR sucked.
@@StuartMossTVhe was a great guy
It would be interesting to take an older bike design like this and add modern components, including cockpit and controls to make them more equivalent.
Isn't that what cases have done in triathlon
We did a bit of updating by changing the wheels and shifters. But you’re right there is more that could be updated.
Kirk. Moulton, RSW. 'F' frame.
I suspect the pinarello fork plays a significant part in the aerodynamic efficiency difference.
The new Cadex triathlon bike uses the same basic frame concept (i.e. no top tube, oversized down tube) and integrates recent design innovations, like oversized bladed forks.
4:51 This engineering piece was sold £4,000 of today. Now you understand how manufacturers scam us by selling us their £8,000 bikes.
Lol 4k in US in 1997 would be 7500 today with inflation.
Did you listen to that part of the video? It was GBP 2000 back then and GBP 4000 today when adjusting for inflation.
That Giant looked amazing with the deep section wheels!
Really made the bike! Yes indeed.
That's not as new as you think. It was around when I was a kid and I'm 73. Still funny though!
It's not a bad looking bike is it! 🙌 Do you wish modern bikes looked like this?
@@gcn nah I prefer the classic triangle 🤓
YES!
Ollie's track stand remains truly impressive, incredible balance.
You can learn it too. It's really not that hard. Give it a try.
He's starting to show off now! Maybe it's time for a new Track stand challenge? 👀
@@gcn how many likes will it cost? Is here some British champion in track standing he can compete against?
@@gcn big yes
True!
One of the best parts of reviewing “futuristic bike” decades later is seeing which designs aged surprisingly well and which designs fell off the grid.
Where does this one fit? 👀 Perhaps TT bikes have lean't a lot from this one?
Ollie's mission to bring English slang to a wider audience is gathering momentum. "What'shischops". Love it.
Nice to see the guys having quite a bit of fun in this video. Si and Ollie are a good team.
A day spent riding fancy bikes and nerding out! Ollie and Si were in their element🙌 What bike should these two take a look at next? 👀
I loved seeing Si's reaction to Ollie's banter
I'm always impressed with the back and forth banter between presenters for GCN, GMBN, EMBN and GTN, and am genuinely wondering if any or all of it is ever scripted. With the reactions in this video between Si and Ollie it would seem that you all really do this off the cuff. Impressive. Keep up the wonderfully entertaining and informative work.
Great to hear that you are loving our presenters! 🙌 Would you like to see more behind the scenes content from us? 👀 We can't release all our secret's obviously 😂
From other channels I watch that are similar, it's a little of column a and a bit of column b. Great teams script the content but give the latitude to the presenters to adlib as creativity allows.
And there are spanish language versions as well
Manufacturers hold the blame for me, no one's forcing them to only make UCI approved road bikes that aren't TT.
Well actually youtubers are. Almost all of them complain about anything that isn't the "classic" design, so consumers are going to be told anything different is rubbish. Its tough to sell a bike when all reviews are negative.
Market pressure does bro. People don’t buy what the pros don’t ride.
You have the economy backwards. Consumers drive everything.
Early Specialized SHIVs weren't UCI legal and sold well. Cervelo P5X doesn't meet UCI standards and sells. How many consumers are going to actually race at a UCI sanctioned event?
@@jasonjohnson9072consumers have no choice because no manufacturer does anything interesting.
So true, manufacturer's are to blame. It's gone mad, and the cost. They take the piss. There killing the sport we love.£££££££££££££££££££££££$$$$$$$$$$
Judging by Ollie's cycling pants he was very excited about the giant today! 🙈🙊
10:20
I was about to say the same thing 😂
I remember back in 98/99, seeing the Giant MCR in a Reading bike shop. Even now it would be radically futuristic.
Love this comment. Just image if the drivetrain was integrated and the design was single-sided.
What a bike to spot in a shop! 👀 Were you temped to pull the plug and purchase one?
@@gcn Sadly, I was fresh out of college, so money was tight… but not so tight as I did buy the red TCR model. It was such a beautiful bike but, oh my word, the stem was truly awful. It flexed SO much that it was very disconcerting on descents. The carbon-spoked wheels and aero seatpost looked the business though.
A modern version of this style of bike, i.e. with modern carbon layup and tube geometry, coupled with modern components, would be killer in the marketplace. It looks timeless, can be engineered for comfort and performance and is distinctive. You could also argue they could build it to be lower cost and more durable than current superbikes.
How about the modern Cadex bike? This could be what you've been looking for 👉 ruclips.net/video/ErYzjvlrcR8/видео.html
for recreational bikers: who cares about UCI? not me!!!!
Si and Ollie is just the best combo there is😂
They feed off each others nerdy-ness 🤓
Ollie's new catch phase "What's-his-chops" made me smile. Love the video guys.
To this day I still have two of these MCR's. This bike looks amazing paired with the old Specialized trispoke wheels.
Great minds think alike I also have a pair of those wheels for it.
Nice one! Do you still take it for a spin? 👀
@@gcn Yes. When I do, I have many curious people that ask questions about the bike. It's not a nice bike to ride in crosswinds, especially when paired with the Specialized trispokes.
I think it would be perfect if you could upgrade certain things on the Giant bike like a modern Shimano group set that would fit, aero monocoque handlebars, aero wheels with awesome Vittoria tires. I think the race between the Giant and the Pinarello F would be closer and quite possibly the Giant would win. Make it happen GCN.
I’d be up for that 👍
@@StuartMossTV Thank you for the reply Mr. Moss! what a marvel of a machine you own sir. We all appreciate you bringing it out and showing us what 90s innovative engineering is capable of against modern engineered super bikes.
Interesting! Very interesting! We'll see what we can do 👀 How close do you think the race would be?
@@gcn The Giant MCR with the upgrades will win by 4 seconds on that same testing ground.
@@gcn a Bee's dick close, thats how close its gonna bee!
Ngl that bike looks pretty sick with the deep section rims 👀
Ollie had several brilliant remarks during in first half of the vid. Love such witty approach.
He was hilarious. The description of the infamous Cotswolds and the bit about the segment remade me laugh nearly as much as Si did.
It'd be interesting to see a triathlon bike kitted with a road handlebar/wheels/settings versus the F
I love this story & I would say the times are close enough that IF the MCR was the standard in the late 90s then bikes today would be even MORE optimized than they are already
Just think how light and aero an MCR would be today, I bet Giant could make one lighter then the S-Works Atheos. Tankx Stuart for showing us your really cool Giant MCR, awesome bike.
No problem 👍
It's a super cool bike isn't it! Do you want to see Giant bing this bike back? 🔎
@@gcn it looks like an older version of the cadex TT from Blumenfeldt
Great video: the tech , the banter and the (re-)opening of interesting ideas for the future of cycling. Inspirational!
With the deep wheels the giant was pretty nice looking. SUPER NICE
Should we upload it to the bike vault? 👀
The sound, camera work and editing are consistently spectacular. With all respect, they are so much better here than in GCN en Español.
Hi David, great to hear that you enjoyed this video. Can you let us know what you loved so much? We would be happy to provide feedback to our Spanish team, we are always looking to up our game 🙌
@@gcn The studio in GCN Español has pretty bad reverb (e.g. ruclips.net/video/KwIOL7e7r8g/видео.html).
As for the camera work, while British GCN will occasionally zoom in during a shot for effect (in post), in GCN Español the zooming on outdoor shots is much more frequent and awkward. It seems to me like the shots are not well prepared in advance and the camera person is tweaking the composition on the go. The camera also wanders around a lot -- either missing a tripod or a steadycam. E.g. ruclips.net/video/CC3vfiZq7lA/видео.html
My humble suggestion would be to have a couple of folks from headquarters review the production of a few videos and provide feedback on what they would do differently.
True y verdad!
9:44 "It's a two-hand". Just love that Ollie refuse to let even Si think he's weak! Although I was a bit worried Ollie would drop the bike as he is now a dropper!
Right lol 9.6kg is only 21lbs xD what guy can't curl 20lbs
After watching both videos about the MCR, I'm inspired to knock the dust off of mine and give it a go. Thanks for giving this amazing bike the attention it deserves.
I remember opening the Giant catalog on my local bike shop and seeing this. Immediately started daydreaming. Absolutely gorgeous.
Then again I was always into futuristic bikes and LOVED the Lotuses.
This bike stands out even now... it looked great back in the day 🙌 Do you think this could be the future of bike design? Should we be pushing the boat out more? 👀
@@gcn unless it's a triathlon-specialist manufacturer, there isn't a market. Unfortunately.
Your description of the Cotswolds at 2:47 was priceless !
The Giant bike looks absolutely wicked with the deep section tires. Clearly, the design needs some updating, but why not? If the bike can be made to come in sub 8 kg with significant aero benefits, it could be a winner. I would certainly consider it. "Faster than UCI legal" That's the pitch. Also, if it is cheaper to manufacture and could save, say, $500 compared to a comparable bike, that too would be a selling proposition. So, no need to be shy. Do an update and see if you can make a better bike.
An idea might also be to market a non UCI compliant bike for the Strava Segment crowd, because while many aren't in official races a far greater number of riders are active in getting higher on the Strava rankings, and they can ride whatever they want doing so.
And the huge downtube is perfect for the battery.
You don't happen to work to work in marketing do you? That could be a great idea! Do you think there is a growing market to competitive cycling outside of UCI racing? 👀
They're called triathlon bikes
@@philipk4475 I believe they’re called faired recumbents for sheer straight-line speed
Brilliant to see Ollie and Si together in a video. What a team!! More please….
These two love an opportunity to get nerdy! Did you catch them taking Greg LeMond's Old Bike for a spin? 👉 ruclips.net/video/C0pAHyhAhj4/видео.html
Really enjoying this comparison series. Thank-you.
I owned a MCR as a TT bike back in the late 90s. It had Corima carbon wheels on Atlanta Golds, 650c front and an MDT single front 65t ring with middleburn cranks. To this day I've not been quicker, my best 25 was 53.45 and for fun I dusted it off a few years ago to try in an event - it felt so slow and I came nowhere near to my pb. I'm also only 160cm! There's something about racing 25 years ago that's different today. maybe being 20 years older 😬
Ooh, Atlanta Golds! I had a pair on a Hed disc and an ultra rare 28 inch FIR trispoke. Oh, and my bike was yellow. Even my flite saddle was yellow.
That sounds like one sweet bike! Have you ever though about putting it on the bike vault! our community of bike nerds would love to see it 👉 gcn.eu/app
I remember when MCR was out. It was way outside my budget. Its badassness has held up magnificently!
I think you should dig up a Zipp 2001 for your next comparison test.
2:35min to 3:40min … absolute gold lads … keep up the personality in presenting, love it!
Another great video. I was really excited to see this amazing bike. Judging by the stain on Ollie's tights, he was even more excited.
Chuffing hilarious from start to finish 🤣🤣🤣🤣 Great video 🎉
if that Giant with the deep section wheels isn't the most 'superniced bike of the week' there is no justice in the world!
What a nice thought 😃
@@StuartMossTV supernice thought
Once again and really nice video really enjoyed it thanks you
I have a pristine MCR 2 in original configuration in my collection with 15,000 kms on the computer. It was fast on the flat but didn't like the hills because of its weight. I had it set up for a while in a TT configuration for tri events with full aero bars and rear disc wheels and it was seriously fast. I heard that Giant were doing an FEA weight reduction program when it was banned. I sometimes take it out at Tour Down Under time, park it against a wall and watch the crowd gather around. Love it. People forget that MCR stood for Monocoque Compact Racing and when it came out and the original aluminium TCR stood for Tubular Compact Racing, and not Total Compact Racing as is now supposed.
Can you give that frame an upgrade to all modern components so we can see the effect on time that is strictly limited to the frame?
Lot's of requests for this! This bike could look real special with some modern parts on it 🙌
Would be very interested in knowing what an old bike frame can do with new parts (of its era) vs new modern components. Are your tests bikes simply showing their age - as all parts slow down over time. Ideally looking at each small component - replacing what item makes the biggest speed difference. Is it BB, the drive train, or the lube that Ollie clearly gets very personal with.
I don't think parts slow down over time, unless they've not been maintained or are worn out. I don't really put much stock in these tests but I would wager 90% of teh speed difference comes from rider position. They ride the modern bike with elbows at close to 90 degree elbows and the old bike with their eblows nearly locked.
@@gattmolson did we watch the same video? You’re exaggerating so hard it’s weird
This sounds like we might need get Ollie to nerd out over this 🤓 Do you think an old frame with modern parts would keep up with today's bikes? It would of course, mean taking an old bike apart and a well maintained retro bike is always nice to see! 🙌
Do a Part 2 with same wheels/tires and matching handlebar width.
Can you imagine if it won… team ineos would be in a quandary.
90s bikes have a special place in my heart. It's when I got into road and track cycling. I would have loved this Giant at the time, still probably would.
Now my out of shape and long past competitive cyclist rides a plethora of budget road bikes, vintage 90s Konas, folding bikes and most recently an electric assisted bicycle.
I love you guys. "For the record, I wouldn't be seen dead on a triathlon bike" 🙏🏻 So glad you've taken The Rules to heart.
R.I.P Mike Burrows, one of the good guys.
Used to have an iridescent purple Trek Y-foil with black trispoke wheels. Really comfortable and a big head turner. Loved that bike.
Ah the trek y-foil. Always wanted one of those. 😍
Both of my favorite presenters in same video! Nice. And good on Simon to call to call out that stain 😆
At some point, you guys will have to re-test a recumbent. The original UCI's ToFastForYa ban...
Yep. On the nail
I think Alex Moulton's small wheel bikes were banned first - when track records started to fall the 16in wheels were deemed 'unfair' and 'too fast'.
@@drkneesandtoes6312 well, since the recumbents were banned in 1934 when Alex Moulton was only 14 I doubt it. But thank you nonetheless, I did not know about Moulton's bike and I had to look it up! Amazing to go this fast on such small bikes.
This is interesting considering the weight difference and close margins. What about getting a more modern compatible groupset aero wheels with Pirelli, aero bars and do another test see what difference that makes. Looks like a lot to gain from that frame design
Would love to see this video done again with the aero wheels on and also a smaller modern aero cockpit. Oh and of course a waxed chain.
Wasn't sure about that bike, but when you put the Aero wheels on it .. Daaaaaaaaaaamn I liked it.
Great video and a cracking back story on the tech channel 👌🏻😍 oh and I’d say Ollie was choking his own chain for “wax” IF That stain is anything to go by 🤔😬😂
Personally I think there should be a seperate equally huge competition, where its all about the best aerodynamics possible.
There is, it's called the HPV (human powered vehicle) and they are all recumbents. But it's a bit like watching paint dry
@@colinsutherland8965 I suppose it jeeds sone rules then ti say they need ti he upright.
I had a set of these wheels in my first ever TT bike, the sound was incredible!!
After I had done the structural design of the Specialized 3 spoke wheeel in 1990, working for DuPont, I was asked to work with Don Don Grishard and Professor Chester Kyles again on a similar ultra bike without a top tube, like the Giant one shown. On my FEA model, the "torque" tube was so thin, it buckeled under hard riding loads, requiring and internal light bulkhead. Don made a heavy full size version for wind tunnel teasting. The project ended when the UCI required a functional top tube, likely the same time the Giant was banned.
I think its the spokes but it reminds me of one of the early "Dandy horse" walking bikes.
I don't know why but I half expected Stuart to pull out some flash cards with 'Beep' printed on them and quitely go "This one. Now this one. And this. Finally."
Ollie breaking Si with the route stat and then describing when he'll talk tech had me chortling pretty firmly.
Nice video kids! Ollie gets an applause for a well executed track stand! .... and waxing the chain. Talking about old school, right former pro Lloydy.
Oscar Egg's use of a tail fairing in 1913, and his later Velo-Velocar in the '30s was the source of the UCI's ban on any fairings or unorthodox bicycle designs. Graeme Obree's unfaired, slightly more conventional bike made from old washing machine piping was also too fast for the UCI so it had to be banned.
With those "cartwheels" in there it was making my eyes bleed, but with those Visions in and maybe tone the very 90's graphics down a bit I could live with it looks wise. And I suppose unlike many of the the other bikes you guys tested that had a lot of unique geometry that required one-off unobtainable parts, quite a lot of the things Si mentioned could be easily swapped out for modern, light, stiffer, more aerodynamic components, which BTW would make a far more fun and interesting video than sticking the frame in a wind tunnel.
The time difference was only 2%. I’m pretty sure if we did change the remaining components to match the Pinarello the times would be significantly different. I would also love to go in a wind tunnel with it though 😃
The UCI are kind of party poopers, aren't they?
thier poop.
LMAO. Earlier in the video I was thinking the same thing about that stain on his bibs. Si's delivery of that line was classic. As for what I think it was: Obviously from "Waxing his chain" ;)
The tucks you could achieve in this bike are insane, just imagine how low your center of gravity could be!
Si is a gem. Evergreen!
I reckon if you could make essentially the same frame but with current carbon fibre technology, with current top end groupset, wheels, tyres and cockpit then you'd have a rocketship 🚀
Cadex tt bike
I once bought a triathlon bike from ebay that came with the wheels from an MCR. Still think they look great, but wish I had an mcr to put them on.
I thought the Giant looked like the racing version of a women's city e-bike at first, but wow, those deep section wheels make it look badass, night and day difference!
Remember the All Soft Soft Ride? That was also banned because it wiped the floor and as such rather than the manufacturers trying to up their game they killed it. Once again vested interests killing a radical departure due to greed and avarice.
I much prefer older bikes, with rim brakes, and quick release. I remember the Giant back when it was new. It wasn't "affordable" at all. I would love to own one because of it's unusual and innovative design. Thank you.
There is something timeless about rim brakes 🙌 Would you much prefer to ride a classic race bike to a modern one? 👀
Please do this test with a MCR frame only with modern parts! And I mean stem/bar as well ;)
The video is great.
As I'm not in the one percent riding races, I'm preferring a recumbent as my roadbike.
A comparison of a recumbent and the Pinarello would be interesting.
What happend to Ollie's pants? Did a bird shat on them or did he get a bit to exited about that Giant?
A guy in my local bike club had a Giant just like this one, but there was an aerodynamic "fearing" over the seatpost/frame junction in carbon. That bike looked so cool. There was also a guy who had the Trek version. Also a late 90's bike. A lot of cool bikes came out of the nineties. Also a lot of cool mtb's, but that's a whole different story/channel :)
Edit: I wrote this post before the end of the film, but the question remains, bird-shit or happy juice? I'm not buying the wax thing. :)
I just finished watching "Clarkson's Farm 2" this morning. Shame on those town council members. Farming has to be one of the most noble professions. Jeremy has some excellent ideas that could have really helped all the suffering farmers. I was left totally aghast by what Jeremy had to go thru and to persevere... Mad respect to Jeremy Clarkson!
I recall that the USPS team all showed up for the Tour de France with Trek Y Bikes whereupon the UCI declared them illegal.
I've been riding this frame on the original rims since 1999. Centuries, mountains, everything else? My favorite bike.
Imagine switching to a electric camera bike and it's making more noise to the mic than w/e you guys used previously. Or is it a mic change maybe?
I quite like the sound effects as Ollie was accelerating, makes him sound like the 6 million dollar man.
I feel that now that everyone has talked about Ollie’s amazing track stand skill he’ll do it on every single video!! 😂😂
Hahaha the ego doesn't feed itself 😂 Should we be doing a Track stand challenge?
@@gcn yes, please! which presenter last longer on a track stand, icluding Dan
another great video. I have the cadex n is sure a tri bike only. But I like the look of this giant. could def be spec tl be a road bike by manufacturer
You guys need to do this test with the Ventum One and the TriRig Omni - both UCI illegal but both would be great as aero road bikes
Would buy modern illegal version of that no doubt. And Im sure many under 40 would as well, especially Gen Z.
Si and Ollie are just amazing! ❤
Time to get your hands on an Obree bicycle. Would be an unbelievable video.
It's a cleaner design than the Trek Y-Foil, which I do remember starting to show up in mass events here in the states just before it was banned.
So I have just one question about all the previous tests and this one. How much difference would it make to the old bikes if you add a Set of Conti GP 5000 S TR (or equivalent - whatever sits on the "new" bike you've been using) #AskGCNTech
Part2
get GIANT, replace wheels for carbon, replace handlebar, chain etc.
it impresive how almost 10kg bike competes with newest aero pinarello
Excellent idea for monocoque designs, especially if built today with the internal drive train idea and maybe even an internal disc or hub brake. Practical and reliable. Could mould from reinforced pre-preg composite (carbon, for the rich) or structural mouldable composite as Stuart suggested.(for this with a real budget).
The frame design of this bikes reminds me the design of the frame of high performance motorcycles such as MotoGP: the twin spars frame. Simplifying at the maximum, the idea is that if you connect the swing arm axles and the steering with the shorter distance as possible you also minimize the bending moment on the frame so, for a given stiffness you can reduce the weight of the frame.
The Giant bike reminds me of a C4 Joker I use to ride in the early 2000. Replaced it with a Look kg 381 team that was a lot lighter...😄
Looks a lot like a BT track bike of the late 90’s. The Australian track team used to ride them and they were bloody quick!
I used to browse the Hotta bike brochure, wishing I could afford one 😊
Way ahead of it's time. That bike in '97?, pretty good. If I had to pick, I'd take the Giant.
Plenty of space in the monocoque for a sneaky battery pack! (Mid 50s with only one good leg, so not a typical usage case!)
Beautiful, majestic, impressive. These are just a few words that can be used to describe Ollie's track stand.
The bike is ok too, but I would feel like a "monocoque" if I rode one.
Reminds me of those frames made in a similar era where there was no seat tube and instead the seat was attached like a spring at the end of a long carbon attachment which attached to an oversized down tube.
Allsop softride bikes, the Zipp 2001 or the Lemond Boomerang
Softride made multiple variations, one being a Powerwing which I still own, the 700c version. 🙂 Have been saving it for a potential RAAM attempt but don’t think that’s going to happen due my age.. but maybe something a little shorter that I could do in a day 😏
That chainstay looks pretty banged up on the pinarello!
just dirt.