Just saw your procedure for first time. Earlier today I did almost the identical procedure with 5200 fast setting. I did not use the painter tape, instead I ran it up the sides. The 5200 sets up quick. I've used 5200 a lot working around boats so I went with what I knew. I used one tube. 10 ozs. That black adhesive you used finished up beautifully. A really professional looking job!
Wish i had done this to my CRF450 supermoto. I have experienced first hand a puncture in the rear tyre on my way home from work...nightmare. The CRF got sold this summer and am now happily saddled with my Blade. Fantastic videos as always, great job. 👍👊😊
The reason I started watching the channel was to learn new things and now I’ve learned you can seal spoked wheels n go tubeless! I had no idea. Wheels look great. Stay safe guys
a great vid del well explained as always would love to do this my last two bikes have spokes vl800 and heritage got a puncture in city centre last year on suzuki nightmare life saved by biker in van with compressor in back and bottle of puncture sealant 3 mile from many stops to pump up made it god i love bikers
ha ha, been there buddy, pumped in a can of sealant, pumped the tyre up and it all squirted out the spoke holes.. had to stop ten times on the way home after buying a foot pump from the petrol station.. Never again mate, this is how we roll from now on, just carry a plug kit, and a puncture is a 15 minute inconvenience..!
Great to have a proper beef jig for truing and balancing .. given the amount of wheel and tyre jobs you get involved in..i see a semi pro tyre machine in the future .. like everything time and funds will prevail one day . As with the lathe and blast cabinet all good things come to those who wait . Bravo Del, one little victory ! Peas and loaf 👍🏻☮❤
Exactly that Brother, been doing this for ten years on the tube now, and always folded the money back into the garage and equipment, so eventually, the tools and machines build up and life gets a bit easier..
Looking forward to seeing these wheels all suited and BOOTED on the bike, they are going to look amazing, great Job Del, another top video on the Triumph 👍🏍.
Great job. Two Questions. 1\ How much of sealer did you use? 2\ And how hard would it be to replace a spoke now? Could you do a test on an old spoked wheel, seal it, then replace one or two spokes then try to reseal just that area to see how well it reseals. I have a R/E Himalayan that has spoked wheels, with both inner tubes and tubeless tires
This makes me want to decorate a cake (can't think why 🤔) Joking apart a great video & a great idea & reason for doing it also Del. I hope the younger generation of biker/riders realise how lucky they are when all they need to do is pick up thier phone & have all this knowledge available to them.
Too right my friend, never heard it better said... when I was a lad, you had your mate's opinion in the pub, a few sage journalists, like Jim Fog and Mr Bridges in BSH, or the local bike shop who were usually a lot more willing to help than theses days with advice and guidance, than the modern day dealerships are... the internet is truly a wonderful thing and it's an honour to contribute to it!
Good job as always! But if you do it again, I think use of *3M 4411N Extreme Sealing Tape* instead of sealant over the full width would have made uniformity of thickness and the straight edges easier to accomplish. The Janpanese Outex Kit also includes small plastic (polyurethane?) discs to cover the spoke ends so that they can be turned without breaking the sealant.
@@OlderShadowRider - I haven't seen any comparisons of the two methods (understandably), but there are many videos on RUclips of people using the 3M tape with none reporting problems, some of the applications by professionals who claim to have done many such sealing projects. The bigger problem, I think, would be accommodation of rotation of the spoke ends without breaking a seal.
About to redo a wheel that I had previously used Gorilla Waterproof & Seal tape, which melted. I just knew coming across your version that it would come out looking immaculate per your usual careful attention to doing it right. Looks good!
You've been cracking on this past month mate 😮. I've finally caught up (the joys of having a new job with brutal hours 🙄) The wheels look fantastic and I can't wait to see them on the bike! 👌
Most welcome Harold, in that case, we're learning together, as this was a new adventure for us, and from all those who've done this before with great success, I've every confidence it will be a great move forward.
@@stevenferraro3957 each to his own my guess, i'm pretty sure spokes is more for off road than on road. makes repairs easier than damaging an alloy wheel.
Sure thing John, it's common practice in some quarters, and eliminates the utter grief of a puncture with a tube.! It'll seal mate, you'll see.. have a great week and take care.. D&Px
Well done sir. I have considered doing this on my Shadow vt750 for some time, but was Leary. After watching your video, I might give it a go? My rims are presently getting powder coated as we speak, so will look more closely into it. Thanks again.
Well i never knew you could do that Del. At the end of the day you done it so neat that it looks like Rim Tape. Spoke Wheels really do make a motorcycle. It's the maintenance issue with me though. I am not one for cleaning them. Where have all those Bob a Job Boy Scouts gone🤣😂😜
haha that made me chuckle, Bob A Job! But honestly, would you trust a boy scout to clean your bike???!! Poor little sod would probably end up squashed underneath it ;-0
would have been nice if you had included a list of the products you used and links to where to order them like you used to. for example where to order those exact valves that you used with the seal each side, and the type of tape you used if it worked... other than the missing list of products and links, nice job.
Not at all mate, it dries like a hard rubber, tyre changing it fine.. and making them tubeless means you don't need to remove tyres ""at the roadside with hand tools"" ! you just fit a quick external temporary plug and ride home or to a tyre shop !
Hello, than you for your video and it has passed about one and half year. how is about the tubeless wheel? Is it good ? no leak air ? Thank you and have a nice weakend.
Another excellent video!! 👍 Just curious but what made you choose Upol Tiger Seal over the more commonly used Marine grade silicon? Also did you consider any of the Spoke Wheel Sealing Kits such as the Outex Tubeless Conversion Kit? Thanks
I've read people on triumphrat using a particular type of 3m tape and one of the soft/liquid locktights but haven't seen the sealant (I'll see if I can find and link it). A few Qs though; 1. How does the value fit? Over the top? Or will there be another rim tape? 2. Any concerns about truing later on if you've pushed sealent into the back of the nipples? (I think this is why people use the liquid locktight) 3. Are you tempted to do the same on the scrambler?
It's temperature dependent, in 15c it was well over two hours and it was still very soft and sticky, but in 24c it was curing a lot faster, became stiffer and less pliable within half hour, all to come on the next couple of videos, and i did it all on one go, spotted the holes in, tabbed that in deep and flattened it out, then layered it up in three passes,. came out well as you can see.
That’s something to see! Never thought we can go tubeless! I was just thinking how nervous I’d be before you admitted it. Questioning myself will it hold air?? My experience have to make sure those beads seal good!! Lol ... that’s yet to see you challenge that!!!
Ooft, nice one Del. They're Bobby Dazzlers. As long as they are cured right through before airing up or the air will seek out an exit. I'll wager that Penny will want her Triumph tubes gone when tyre time comes and I have to admit, I have a stainless spoke and tubeless wide rim fetish.
I share your fetish brother, can't beat that SuperMoto stylee! They're gonna get 48hrs and that's plenty of time in a warm, humid climate... thanks for the inspiration Hughie, I probably wouldn't have gone this way without your nudge!
Great job as always !!!! i love this channel, after a long day of work , nothing beats a new video from delboy's garage , so relaxing and every time i learn something new !!!!! thank you !!!
there ya go another job people can have a go at you know thats the beautie of this channel you learn something everytime well played big man atb stay safe m8 iain
It's a good point Allen, if you rid eon rocky surfaces and off road that are prone to giving you punctures, it's certainly an easier 'get you home' to be able to just plug it and carry on than dragging tubes out on the road side, or waiting in the wilderness for a tow truck! ... it just puts you on a par with regular tubeless tyre bikes, and perhaps this is borne out by the big adventure bikes now that have external spokes, giving them a tubeless option straight away, it kinda acknowledges that tubeless is best on an adventure style bike... have a great weekend Allen, soon be Christmas, and best of all, we can put this difficult year behind us, D&Px
Will they Ian?, really? I've run spoke wheels ll my life and never once had to have them re-tensioned ever, including the new wheels we put on Penny's Scrambler about 2013, 7yrs later, never had to touch them, if they're correctly built, trued and tensioned in the first place, it's evident they stay that way... not just that, this is a 3mm layer of rubber sealant, and it grinds out with a wire mop, so no drama mate, smile and have a good day!
@@Moonfleet41 Well Del, there's always a possibility. Many moons ago I had 2 wheels done by CWC New steel rims,new spokes laced to my old 1968 triumphs hubs. I used to Check them occasionally when washing and a few of times had to re-tune them Not criticizing CWC, may be spokes have toughened up over the last 30 years . Take care both and ride safe
Just saw your procedure for first time. Earlier today I did almost the identical procedure with 5200 fast setting. I did not use the painter tape, instead I ran it up the sides. The 5200 sets up quick. I've used 5200 a lot working around boats so I went with what I knew. I used one tube. 10 ozs. That black adhesive you used finished up beautifully. A really professional looking job!
Nice clean application. How do you ever adjust a spoke with the base sealed to the rim?
You don't, basically. This should probably be changed every 4-5years anyway, which i when i usually need to tighten any spokes on a good wheel.
@@datadavis every time a bike with spokes comes in for a service there are always several spokes that need adjusting
@@EvolutionMotorworks ok boss
You just grind down to that spoke and adjust it, then reseal over it.
@@relevation0remember this is a soft flexible sealant. Stay away with that grinder although I know what you mean.
Fascinating = I just spent 10mins watching a wheel go round and round 😀 Seriously....... good job 👍
You make one of the best “how to do“ on the net! Great job!
Thank you, im glad it helped.
I just did this using your method. Came out perfectly like yours did.. neatest job and best video on the subject.
Thank you mate. Great to hear it worked out well for you too.. Ride safe aye !
Wish i had done this to my CRF450 supermoto. I have experienced first hand a puncture in the rear tyre on my way home from work...nightmare. The CRF got sold this summer and am now happily saddled with my Blade. Fantastic videos as always, great job. 👍👊😊
Sure thing buddy, been there far too many times myself!... I'm not doing punctures in tubes again...
Most impressed that you managed to do all that without sticking your tongue out. I was sitting here doing it for you!
😁
Haha me too I'm terrible for it.
Just wondering what happens in the future if you need to tighten a loose spoke..
adjustments are made on the hub side of the rim; the inside.
@@richardplantagenet8090 It's not as easy as you think.
The nipples still turn to either loosen OR tighten the spokes. So, the seal WILL break.
@@richardplantagenet8090 no they're not. The nipple is attached to the rim
Just been put onto your channel by the motorcycle recovery van that just brought me home (puncture obviously!). That's a great job!
Awesome! Thank you!
Thanks for the video Del. I am doing mine today!
Have fun, and good luck with it.
Thanks for the video. You last video reminded me to clean and regrease the lever hinge pins on my bikes.
So glad you made this video! Greatly appreciate you!
The reason I started watching the channel was to learn new things and now I’ve learned you can seal spoked wheels n go tubeless! I had no idea. Wheels look great. Stay safe guys
Thanks Alan, you're learning along with me then, i never did this before either, and we'll see in 48 hours if it's worked.!
a great vid del well explained as always would love to do this my last two bikes have spokes vl800 and heritage got a puncture in city centre last year on suzuki nightmare life saved by biker in van with compressor in back and bottle of puncture sealant 3 mile from many stops to pump up made it god i love bikers
ha ha, been there buddy, pumped in a can of sealant, pumped the tyre up and it all squirted out the spoke holes.. had to stop ten times on the way home after buying a foot pump from the petrol station.. Never again mate, this is how we roll from now on, just carry a plug kit, and a puncture is a 15 minute inconvenience..!
I like the idea as long as it works, I would say the application you did looks the goods.
Well...did it work? Did the tire seal first time through? How long has it lasted (mileage wise)?
You're video on swapping out the T120 shocks gave me the confidence to do that job, I reckon this video has given me the confidence to do this one.
Thank you for your kind feedback, have fun with your project.!
Can I ask how much did it cost for the aluminium wheels
Really excellent,for once again,i try it on my BMW funduro!
Great to have a proper beef jig for truing and balancing .. given the amount of wheel and tyre jobs you get involved in..i see a semi pro tyre machine in the future .. like everything time and funds will prevail one day . As with the lathe and blast cabinet all good things come to those who wait .
Bravo Del, one little victory !
Peas and loaf 👍🏻☮❤
Exactly that Brother, been doing this for ten years on the tube now, and always folded the money back into the garage and equipment, so eventually, the tools and machines build up and life gets a bit easier..
Looking forward to seeing these wheels all suited and BOOTED on the bike, they are going to look amazing, great Job Del, another top video on the Triumph 👍🏍.
Thanks Graham, really appreciate your kind words.
This channel has come on leaps and bounds since I started watching. Keep the great work going Del.
Great job. Two Questions. 1\ How much of sealer did you use? 2\ And how hard would it be to replace a spoke now? Could you do a test on an old spoked wheel, seal it, then replace one or two spokes then try to reseal just that area to see how well it reseals. I have a R/E Himalayan that has spoked wheels, with both inner tubes and tubeless tires
Love the fact your very precise and have to make sure it’s a 100% best way to go about it. Also as we all know preparation is key
Wise words well said my friend, preparation is everything!
This makes me want to decorate a cake (can't think why 🤔)
Joking apart a great video & a great idea & reason for doing it also Del.
I hope the younger generation of biker/riders realise how lucky they are when all they need to do is pick up thier phone & have all this knowledge available to them.
Too right my friend, never heard it better said... when I was a lad, you had your mate's opinion in the pub, a few sage journalists, like Jim Fog and Mr Bridges in BSH, or the local bike shop who were usually a lot more willing to help than theses days with advice and guidance, than the modern day dealerships are... the internet is truly a wonderful thing and it's an honour to contribute to it!
good job. your enthusiasm is inspiring
Absolutely thorough job.
Quite satisfieing to watch , very neat job . Great video
I definitely want to do this with my laced wheels
Now we all know how to make wire wheels tubeless cheers Del 👍
Good job as always! But if you do it again, I think use of *3M 4411N Extreme Sealing Tape* instead of sealant over the full width
would have made uniformity of thickness and the straight edges easier to accomplish. The Janpanese Outex Kit also includes
small plastic (polyurethane?) discs to cover the spoke ends so that they can be turned without breaking the sealant.
I would be Leary of using Tape? Del's way I believe would be more prudent.
@@OlderShadowRider - I haven't seen any comparisons of the two methods (understandably), but there are many videos on RUclips of people using the 3M tape with none reporting problems, some of the applications by professionals who claim to have done many such sealing projects. The bigger problem, I think, would be accommodation of rotation of the spoke ends without breaking a seal.
About to redo a wheel that I had previously used Gorilla Waterproof & Seal tape, which melted. I just knew coming across your version that it would come out looking immaculate per your usual careful attention to doing it right. Looks good!
Very informative indeed and Thanks. How many Sealer Tubes were needed for 2 wheels.
Approx. one each, I always buy a third just in case I run a little short, but usually never need it!
I went into a trance watching that.. Great video..thanks
Glad you enjoyed it buddy.
You've been cracking on this past month mate 😮. I've finally caught up (the joys of having a new job with brutal hours 🙄) The wheels look fantastic and I can't wait to see them on the bike! 👌
Welcome back buddy, congratulations on the new job, hope it's going well, and thanks for your kind support. !
Rims look excellent mate and a great job with the tubeless conversion. Penny and you have a good and safe week. Cheers
Thank you mate, you too... glad you enjoyed the video, keep safe there and take care of yourself and your family, D&Px
Interesting as I have just bought a pristine secondhand SCR950 in northern Thailand, and I ain't running round for long on tubes.
A job he's done a thousand times: Chatty Cathy... First time and nervous: silent as a monk. Looks great Del. Nice one mate
You never cease to amaze, entertain and educate! I learned something new tonight, thank you!! 👍
Most welcome Harold, in that case, we're learning together, as this was a new adventure for us, and from all those who've done this before with great success, I've every confidence it will be a great move forward.
highly doubt i'll run spoked wheels, nice vid Del
The point of running spoked wheels is lost on me. Unless purely for looks. I thought we moved away from composite wheels for a reason(s)???
@@stevenferraro3957 each to his own my guess, i'm pretty sure spokes is more for off road than on road. makes repairs easier than damaging an alloy wheel.
Thanks for the video. I will give this a try myself. How much sealant have you used for both front and back tire?
About a tube and a half was plenty!
I've often wondered if a spoked wheel could be made tubeless. Now I know. Excellent video Del and Penny - fingers crossed for the pressure test!
Sure thing John, it's common practice in some quarters, and eliminates the utter grief of a puncture with a tube.! It'll seal mate, you'll see.. have a great week and take care.. D&Px
very cool. i wondered how that was done and now i know. cool.
Really interesting never thought of that
Therapeutic to watch the application. Very well done, too.
Thank you very much Nick, good to hear from you, !
Finally someone made a video about this and actually succeed. Does it handle the pressure? How is is it doing so far?
Behaves like a normal tubeless tyre, no problems mate !
Those wheels look great, didn’t know spoke wheels could be converted to tubeless. Nice one .....kind regards.
Outstanding sir. Well done.
Wow they look awesome
Always learning something new off u del 👍
Looks good 👍 appreciate the videos, especially during all the nonsense going on. Be well ☺️
Thanks Ollie, glad you appreciate it mate! 👍
Can't beat a good bit of Tuesday teatime schmoo spreading.
Good vid looks like a pro
Well done sir. I have considered doing this on my Shadow vt750 for some time, but was Leary. After watching your video, I might give it a go? My rims are presently getting powder coated as we speak, so will look more closely into it. Thanks again.
Brilliant work. A treat to watch!
as always hats off to you. Now think out the balance.
Looks amazing brother 👍✌️
Thanks Ron, hope you're keeping safe and well there! 👍
Can't wait to see those fitted!
Well i never knew you could do that Del. At the end of the day you done it so neat that it looks like Rim Tape.
Spoke Wheels really do make a motorcycle. It's the maintenance issue with me though. I am not one for cleaning them.
Where have all those Bob a Job Boy Scouts gone🤣😂😜
haha that made me chuckle, Bob A Job! But honestly, would you trust a boy scout to clean your bike???!! Poor little sod would probably end up squashed underneath it ;-0
@@Moonfleet41 Now you come to mention it.....Probably not. Ha Ha
Interesting. If you need to true the wheel at a later date, or tighten a loose spoke, will that be a problem?
Don't know Glynn, never had to do it yet, i guess ill find out should i ever need to.!
Nice video fade in the beginning...
FYI I have used Stan's kit for mtn bikes ... Good luck
That looked very therapeutic
Nice work Dell, the rims have come up corka.
would have been nice if you had included a list of the products you used and links to where to order them like you used to. for example where to order those exact valves that you used with the seal each side, and the type of tape you used if it worked... other than the missing list of products and links, nice job.
Del it was like watching the potters wheel interlude, very relaxing . Nice wheels.
I can see the tyre sticking to this mess and never coming off, especially at the roadside with hand tools.
Not at all mate, it dries like a hard rubber, tyre changing it fine.. and making them tubeless means you don't need to remove tyres ""at the roadside with hand tools"" ! you just fit a quick external temporary plug and ride home or to a tyre shop !
Looks like very tedious work plus extreme patience needed, good job, looking forward to seeing you do the rear, (oooer missus), 👍👍👍👍
Fantastic video great job stay safe looking forward to next one 🇬🇧👍🏻
update, how it hold up so far?
Been waiting all day for this nice one del
Hello, than you for your video and it has passed about one and half year. how is about the tubeless wheel? Is it good ? no leak air ?
Thank you and have a nice weakend.
Looking good del
So the way we make mountain bike tiers tubless these rims will not work ?
You can admit to being nervous about that? I was nervous for you and I wasn’t even there!
Thanks buddy, got 'er done though!
@@Moonfleet41 and it came out far better than I would have thought. 👍
That's all very nice, but if you have to adjust the spokes, don't you get into trouble?
Yes.
Beautiful job, well done!
I was looking to try this on a project of my own recently, I will be waiting to see how this turns out Del. Best of luck buddy SR
Well Del never seen that before nice one ☝️
Another excellent video!! 👍 Just curious but what made you choose Upol Tiger Seal over the more commonly used Marine grade silicon? Also did you consider any of the Spoke Wheel Sealing Kits such as the Outex Tubeless Conversion Kit? Thanks
I've read people on triumphrat using a particular type of 3m tape and one of the soft/liquid locktights but haven't seen the sealant (I'll see if I can find and link it). A few Qs though;
1. How does the value fit? Over the top? Or will there be another rim tape?
2. Any concerns about truing later on if you've pushed sealent into the back of the nipples? (I think this is why people use the liquid locktight)
3. Are you tempted to do the same on the scrambler?
There something calming about your channel i love to watch your video's. And i am learning from it to. Waiting for the next one.
How long does that silicone remain workable, do you have to let it cure between applications?
It's temperature dependent, in 15c it was well over two hours and it was still very soft and sticky, but in 24c it was curing a lot faster, became stiffer and less pliable within half hour, all to come on the next couple of videos, and i did it all on one go, spotted the holes in, tabbed that in deep and flattened it out, then layered it up in three passes,. came out well as you can see.
Hey bud wheels look amazing 👏
Hi, what inlet valve use to complete the upgrade? Is done to bonneville T100? Thanks
Did the reduction in rotating mass make the steering any easier or quicker?
That’s something to see! Never thought we can go tubeless! I was just thinking how nervous I’d be before you admitted it. Questioning myself will it hold air?? My experience have to make sure those beads seal good!! Lol ... that’s yet to see you challenge that!!!
Next Video..!
@@Moonfleet41 ... looking forward to it... !!! .. LOL
Ooft, nice one Del.
They're Bobby Dazzlers. As long as they are cured right through before airing up or the air will seek out an exit. I'll wager that Penny will want her Triumph tubes gone when tyre time comes and I have to admit, I have a stainless spoke and tubeless wide rim fetish.
I share your fetish brother, can't beat that SuperMoto stylee! They're gonna get 48hrs and that's plenty of time in a warm, humid climate... thanks for the inspiration Hughie, I probably wouldn't have gone this way without your nudge!
Hi could you tell me who you used to build your wheels as you have inspired me to restore my sport. Great videos
Do the spokes not move over time during use? Could this not cause sudden deflation? Looks dangerous to me.
Nope... it's common practice and works a treat, but if you feel frightened then stick with your inner tubes.
How do you adjust your spokes if it's all sealed?
Grind out the sealant with a wire mop, then reseal afterwards !
The truth would not have come up with an idea and great work.
It's all Wheelie good . 😃
Like what you did there mate!
How is it holding up?
Nice job Del
Just wandering though,
How do you go about truing the spokes if you need to with the sealant on.
Thanks Nick
They're already trued and tensioned mate, ready to go, that's why i went to a respected professional wheel builder. ! just fit and enjoy!
Great job as always !!!! i love this channel, after a long day of work , nothing beats a new video from delboy's garage , so relaxing and every time i learn something new !!!!! thank you !!!
Thanks for your kind words buddy, we're glad you enjoyed it, and thanks for the feedback, it motivates us to keep going!
Del always pushing to try something new go for it
Too right mate, best way to learn aye.
there ya go another job people can have a go at you know thats the beautie of this channel you learn something everytime well played big man atb stay safe m8 iain
On your last run dip the spatula in some diluted washing up liquid it stops dragging and gives a smother finish
any reccomendation to affordable spoke wheels?
They're not cheap mate, so guess it depends what you mean by 'affordable', how much have you got to spend?
@@Moonfleet41 ~£200 budget
No chance mate, you'll need a 'O' on the end for the top end stuff, and about £1k for something like this, wheels are very expensive buddy.
Very cool, I like this a lot! Wonder if it's something I could consider doing to the Tenere, when I'm ready for new tires?
It's a good point Allen, if you rid eon rocky surfaces and off road that are prone to giving you punctures, it's certainly an easier 'get you home' to be able to just plug it and carry on than dragging tubes out on the road side, or waiting in the wilderness for a tow truck! ... it just puts you on a par with regular tubeless tyre bikes, and perhaps this is borne out by the big adventure bikes now that have external spokes, giving them a tubeless option straight away, it kinda acknowledges that tubeless is best on an adventure style bike... have a great weekend Allen, soon be Christmas, and best of all, we can put this difficult year behind us, D&Px
@@Moonfleet41 My thinking exactly, and yes, a number of the bigger adventure bikes have gone this route already! Ride safe!
How do you re-tension spokes in the future if required ( which over time they will) with a layer of sealant around the spoke nipples ?
Will they Ian?, really? I've run spoke wheels ll my life and never once had to have them re-tensioned ever, including the new wheels we put on Penny's Scrambler about 2013, 7yrs later, never had to touch them, if they're correctly built, trued and tensioned in the first place, it's evident they stay that way... not just that, this is a 3mm layer of rubber sealant, and it grinds out with a wire mop, so no drama mate, smile and have a good day!
@@Moonfleet41 Well Del, there's always a possibility. Many moons ago I had 2 wheels done by CWC New steel rims,new spokes laced to my old 1968 triumphs hubs. I used to Check them occasionally when washing and a few of times had to re-tune them Not criticizing CWC, may be spokes have toughened up over the last 30 years . Take care both and ride safe