DIY Maple Syrup Reverse Osmosis
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- Опубликовано: 7 сен 2024
- **UPDATE** ACTUAL FLOW WITH COLD SAP: 18.5 GPH sap to make 9.7 GPH permeate + 8.7 GPH concentrate (much lower output with cold sap versus warm water!)
This video shows the system I built from scratch. In the video is a review of how RO works, flushing the system, preparing it for storage between seasons, and a full parts list.
I will try to upload a follow video detailing how maple syruping 2022 went.
Complete recap of this year with tables, photos, and parts list on my blog: offgridcabin.w...
Batch #1 (first test run) - • Maple Syrup 2022 - 1st...
Batch #2 (refinements) - • Maple Syrup 2022: RO R...
Links:
RO 500ml Chart:
offgridcabin.f...
Brix Temperature Scale:
offgridcabin.f...
RO Quick Guide:
offgridcabin.f...
RO Parts List:
offgridcabin.f...
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Really great video. thanks for taking the time to produce this; i will try and build something similar, thanks to your efforsts
Thank your for your detail RO tutorial build. Great job! I will attempt a replica with your permission. 🙏😃
Go for it!
This guy is a master engineer! TERRIFIC design and implementation.
Great video! I've been recommending a DIY RO for some smaller local hobby producers and this is great to be able to share.
Damn! You’ve done your research! Thanks for sharing
Last year I set up my hobby RO system to pull sap out of the preheat pan. This made the system run more efficient as the sap was 70 plus degrees in the preheat pan. Just an idea for folks.
Most informative video I have ever watched
Thanks
So the process is that you have a bulk tank and keep running the same concentrate back through the RO unit perpetually until you are ready to boil it. So based on flow rate, you may run it 3 or 4 times over night. In other words, you are not taking the concentrate directly off the RO unit into storage / evaporator
Great video. I need to watch it a couple more times. Thank you for sharing and taking your time to put this video together.
Thanks! My plan, and I’ll find out this weekend, is to hopefully use the recirculation valve on the RO unit to remove enough water to take the concentrate directly to the preheating pan. Right now I don’t plan to do more than one pass before boiling or store any concentrate for longer than a few hours… we’ll see. I will have a good deal of time so I’m planning to take some video of the process.
“Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery”. I built an RO by shamelessly copying your unit, and the design by Roseum. Many thanks for sharing.
READ THIS: My 5 amp transformer powered my 7 amp pump (Coronwater TYP 8900K) for 12 hours removing an average of 8 gallons per hour of water and producing 6.5 gallons per hour of concentrate before it took a smoking break and never came back. Luckily I had an Aquatec 8800 pump and was able to finish the rest of the boil with the RO removing 5 gallons of water per hour producing 7.8 gallons per hour of concentrate. My raw sap temperature was 32°F. Aside from a burned out undersized transformer everything works perfectly! Working on batch two (with a new transformer and experimental RO preheater).
What transformer did you end up using?
@@TheScorpionbowl I purchased a 10A 24V from LedWholesalers on Amazon. Others have used it with success. I’ll find out for sure.
@@samuelwiltzius Isn't your pump a 12v pump though? Don't think you can use a 24v on it..
@@paulslund1 The Aquatec (small 12VAC pump) was too weak, the current pump (TYP 8900K) is 24VDC and works very well.
Really great video!!! Thank you
Oh great let him keep doing it.
After a successful sugar season with my own RO system I was reviewing your video again and wondered where you came up with the great mount for your gauge. Is that a custom bracket? Great video and thanks for sharing the Quick start guide. That was a fun read.
Thanks Adam. The bracket is the clampy part that holds the assembly of a standard heat lamp - reused from my parts drawer.
Very nice video Samuel. I'm a bit confused on where you decided to use 1/4" tubing and where 3/8" tubing was used. It's difficult to tell from the video. Could you tell us where each is used and where the 3/8" is reduced to 1/4". Or does it not really matter as long as the connections are made. Thanks much.
Thanks! I have a link in the video description with a lot more details (and photos)
Nice
Excellent description and video. I'm trying to build my own RO system right now in the middle of the MN sap run. I don't have the recirculation value. I cannot keep up boiling with roughly 60-100 gal of sap per day so looking to shorten the boiling time but not sure how this is all going to work. I'll have to do some trials.
RO really changes the process; I was able to do 285 gallons in 18 hours instead of 36. Saved a lot of wood too. It was also more enjoyable - which I really value as a hobbyist. I found that I can only remove so much water per hour and the recirculation valve decreases the total gallons per hour of concentrate but results in a higher brix of the concentrate. Essentially, if the concentrate is being made faster than your boil the recirc valve is a really valuable addition.
Question. What is the reason behind running multiple membranes in series. Seems to correlate to capacity. Not sure I fully understand.
Each membrane can remove so much water per hour, the remaining concentrated liquid then moves to the next membrane - in series the concentration builds after each membrane and flows quickly, in parallel the flow would be 1/5 as fast on each membrane (for 5 membrane setup) and the lower velocity could lead to the membranes clogging faster. I have not tested this but that is the current reasoning.
I did a test run with well water & it seemed like I had a 1:1 ratio at about 60 psi. I have an aquatech 8800 Booster Pump, 5 micron pre-filter & four 150 gpd membranes.
That will change a lot when you try to push cold sap. I looked in my notes - room temperature tap water vs 40F sap my output (1:1 ratio) was 42% of the tap water gallons per hour. My psi also jumped by 45 psi.
@@samuelwiltzius thank you. That helps a lot.
Just curious about the spreadsheet. Did you download it or it's your own creation? Your video is really well made. Thanks for sharing.
Thanks for checking it out! I made it myself. I just updated the video description with a link to my blog where there are more photos, stats, and tables: offgridcabin.wordpress.com/2022/04/17/maple-syrup-2022-year-of-the-ro/
when you say flush it are you running water through the membrane's in reverse?
Flush in this case means to wash water over the membranes (not reversing flow). Essentially water passes over (instead of through) and washes off gunk that accumulates out the concentrate line - very little water will come out the permeate line during a flush.
Great video and thanks for sharing. I'm curious how the switching power supply held up. I believe you listed a 5 amp supply and your pump looks to be drawing 4.5 A consistently. Did you run into any thermal shutdown issues with the supply?
I watched your next video and found my answer. Again, I appreciate the videos.
The power supply was fine with the smaller pump… when I went to a more powerful pump and didn’t upgrade the power supply that’s when things got smoky.
Great video! I'm modelling my build after this..
Can I ask how you are dealing with the different tubing sizes? I noticed that RO intakes housings tend to be 3/8, however output tends to be 1/4... I don't see any 1/4 to 3/8 connectors when you connect the housings concentrate output to the next membrane input? THanks!
I ordered some specific connectors for this (also, use a ton of Teflon tape!) - in the video description I have a link that takes you to more information. Cheers!
@@samuelwiltzius Ah okay I see! Thanks a lot!
Hi, i need help please, i bought a second hand reverse osmosis , i changed all the filters , added the pressure gage and the pressure pump, when the season started the RO wasn’t able to separate the sap from the water and the pressure gage doesn’t have any pressure, any idea what my problem is? Thank you
Could be several things… start with the membranes - remove them and inspect them. If they are damaged, sugar will pass right through. After that; plumbing and valves - look to see the membranes are plumbed correctly.
Awesome video! Would you be willing to share your flow diagram? I got lost with all the valves. The recirc is a great idea to increase sugar concentration faster!
I made a user manual with photos for my Dad so he can operate it, but Roseum Maple Syrup has a great post on his and a very useful diagram www.roseummaple.com/2020/01/diy-2-stage-portable-hobby-ro.html?m=1
Great link! I've read that site but hadn't seen that page. Thanks!
I like your set up, nice and clean look to it. What are the dimensions of the plywood piece?
Not sure off hand. I think 22” x 22” give or take.
@@samuelwiltziusHey Sam, nice job! I am plumbing my board now, I see you have your pump inside the recirculation loop. If I put the recirculation T beyond the "out" side of the pump will it still work?
In other words, my pump would be before any of the fittings.
@@jscott3509 the recirculation stream needs to be higher pressure than the line it enters to work. I have it on intake to achieve this. I think some setups have a separate high pressure pump to inject recirculate if it’s being added to a high pressure line.
Do you have links to where you bought your stuff?
I don’t have any direct links, but in the video description I link to my blog where you can download a parts list which has information where each part was purchased.
Curious question, I only tap about 20 trees. And I have a 5/16 main line. Would I be able to hook this right up to the mainline and use it as a vacuum pump also? And illuminate my sap bucket. Thanks
Fred
This type of pump is not made to pull vacuum. It would not work and would likely lead to premature pump failure.
Oh ok great thanks
I am borrowing an RO system from a friend to use for my sap. He only has one RO filter (no prefilters). I can build up the pressure to about 80-85psi total. However it seems like the flow is nowhere near yours. When the concentrated sap is flowing, the permeate (pure water) is just dripping. I'm trying to troubleshoot this and figure out why? Not enough powerful pump? Does adding more filters make it flow better? Seems like at the rate it's going for me, it'll take forever for the RO to make a difference.
Close the needle valve down - this controls the ratio of permeate to concentrate.
@@samuelwiltzius when I close it down, both concentrate sap and permeate slow down to drips
@@ShopTherapy623 next look at your intake lines. It sounds like there may be a leak on the fittings between the pump and the raw sap - look carefully at all fittings on this part.
@@samuelwiltziusI found out I have a "check valve" on my concentrated sap side of the RO membrane. Someone said that could be causing problems. I will definitely check for leaks too - I might just replace all the tubing and fittings. Even with my needle valve all the way shut, I can get the pressure past 85-90. So there's definitely something wrong with the system.
@@ShopTherapy623also; some pumps have a max-pressure set screw. Might be info in the pump manual on setting it.
How do you get the needle valve to be tight?
Not sure I understand.
That is pretty similar to the one that I made, except that yours is higher capacity. I am adding a U V sterilizer to my concentrate line so that I will be able to store my concentrate for longer periods in between boiling days. Can you share your source for the preservative chemical?
I’m starting with the preservative from RObucket.com for now. I think it’s just citric acid, but since I’m small scale I figured I’d use something sold specifically for a setup my size to start.
I found online that some use potassium metabisulfite as a membrane preservative. Any homebrew store has it for cheap. It is used in wine making.
Hi David. Could you post some information about the UV sterilizer you are using?
Do you ever keep your permeate to continue to flush your system all season or do you discard it after flushing?
I keep it only for each session - after a boil (weekend) I dump the remainder
Do you sell them?
I do not. I have info in the description for those wanting to build one, otherwise search for ROBucket; they have kits.
Can you increase gpm of concentrate by adding more membranes?
By adding membranes (I’ll run 5 this year) the gph of concentrate will increase - But since I match my concentrate gph to my boil gph the result will be the same gph concentrate but increased gph permeate.
What is the chemical you are using for the final storage.
I'm not sure. It's from Ro Bucket - I would like to find this answer as well and order in bulk.
it's sodium hydroxide
I thought the TYP-8900K pump required a pump to feed it sap @ atleast 30psi or they blow up. Have you had good luck running that pump solo?
Running solo without any issue. I wrecked a transformer but that was my fault for undersizing it.
That’s great news. I’m building a similar RO. I think I’ll buy the same pump. What do you power it with?
@@jerrythechainsawguy8100 LEDwholesalers 24V 10A 240W AC/DC Power Adapter with 5.5x2.5mm DC Plug and 2.1mm Adapter, Black, 3264-24V a.co/d/a0chaOv
Do you have a link for that filter screen?
www.therobucket.com/product/intake-suction-strainer/
Are all the prefilter s the same for all four housings.?
The blue top is a pre-filter. The other three white canisters are the RO membranes.
@@samuelwiltzius Thanks, so to clarify, the 3 membranes are the 5micron filters? and what size is the pre filter
Is this ro something you put togeather in USA or Canada
I’m in Upper Michigan.
I’m parallel in Ontario to upper Michigan I’d be happy to see equal pricing but it unfortunately isnt
Do you have any cheap ideas for a small vacuum pump?😂
Haven’t looked into that yet. My Dad likes to collect and I wouldn’t dare deprive him the fresh air and exercise 😉
How is it working?
Everything is prepped for season, but there is still a lot of snow and a week or two before collection can begin. I plan to put up a follow up video after this syrup season.
@@samuelwiltzius Still snow?? Where are you? We're on week 3 of collection!
@@BackwoodsTinkerer Upper Michigan. About 16” ground cover and if we hang bags now they will get torn up by the wind if sap isn’t running. Maybe this weekend we’ll tap… maybe.
@@samuelwiltzius gotcha. I'm down in Howell. We've had a great season so far, weather has been on our side!