Fun, they tried grape juice back in the day but the tartrates would rupture the RO membrane. Used to run a three effect vacuum plate in frame unit. The first effect fed a 4 story fractionating column to save the esters (flavor). Always wanted to run sap through that machine but it would take every trees sap in the county just to fire it up.😂
Thank you so much for your detailed video. I built a RO system very similar to yours. It works great! I made it easy to install understand and I appreciate the stats. I am getting similar results! Thanks again!
Thank you for the primer. Been thinking about this as the sap flow exceeds my evaporate rate. And then save the "waste" product [purified water] as the makeup water for my home heating system.
@birchfieldfarming it is too pure and actually becomes acidic which can cause harm to your body if consumed for too long and too much. As for being too pure, RO removes all the minerals and electrolytes which our body needs. Your body doesn't get hydrated the way it should.
Thanks for the video I'm up in ME and just built one of these machines and im learning how to best run it. I'm starting with only about 1.5% sap so it takes a bit longer to get up to that 6 or so % range. The online forums say you can get at most about 9-10% just due to the science behind the RO process and how water is removed. I think the sizing of the system is the most important depending on how you plan on using it. I am removing about 2 gph of permiate which is about the same as my boil rate in a lobster pot over the wood fire but I would like do do it abit faster so I don't have to run the RO quite as long to get a batch ready to boil. in any event utilizing the process is a huge benefit especialy when you don't want your hobby to turn into a full time job. Cheers
You’re absolutely right - it’s been a game changer for our small operation. Kevin, are you guys still running sap up there? We’ve had kind of a slow season with temps above normal (early Spring?). I’m thinking our season may end this weekend because of the warmer weather. Sounds like you’ve got a set-up that’s working for you, which is all that matters.
@@birchfieldfarming it ran for about 2 weeks mid janruary so I decided to tap but the freezer turned back on and its been single digit temps for a week so everyting froze back up. Things just getting started up here for most people about in the first week of march. i just ordered some larger membranes wich should speed things up for me so we'll see how it goes.
@@joshs4561 Im just outside of bangor so our weather is a couple of weeks behind you. I'm running the machine today I collected 110 gallons of sap yesterday and hoping to get it down to about 30 gallons of concentrate to boil tomorow after the storm. good luck with your shugaring. P. S. I just upgraded my membranes to 400 gpd membranes it was totally worth it I can process 55 gals of sap from 1.5-7% in about 6 hours. the cost difference is neglagable if your sourcing components.
I made & used this very system this year. Worked great. My only struggle was putting all the thoughts out there to shut down for next season. Will you show us what you did when done. Thanks. Great explanation.
I’m so thrilled this worked for you! Thanks for reporting back. There have been enough requests for an end of season storage video that I’d like to put something together. I’ll see what I can do.
@@birchfieldfarming Your video and shopping list got me steered in the right direction. I've located the remaining fittings, so am all good to order the RO parts now. Thanks for the great video...
Great video, got me to thinking that I need to do the same thing. Have you thought about wrapping some copper tubing around your stovepipe and running the sap through it before it reaches your prewarming pot?
You can put the filter before the pump. The pump has enough pull to do that. That way you can protect the pump from any debris in the sap. Not sure how big a deal it is, but that's the way I run mine.
One more question. I’m having a hard time finding the fittings for the filter? 3/8npt I assume would go to 1/4 push connect? Did you find them on Amazon? Ty
Yes, here are the ones I used: Malida Male Push To Connect Tube... www.amazon.com/dp/B01M9B6LL3?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share I had a heck of a time stopping leaks from the threaded portion tho. I had to Teflon tape the crud out of them! Very poorly made Chinese cheapness. I’ll be making a trip to the hardware and rigging up something with brass threads before next season.
Great idea! Yes, the 1/4 needle valve would work much better with copper, but did you then join the copper tubing back up to plastic? If so, with what fitting? Thanks for sharing!
Hi John, Youngblood did a video on this - pretty short, simple, cost effective storage method using hydrogen peroxide. I’ll probably follow something similar. The membranes came vacuum sealed, so I may try sealing them up individually with my food saver (after cleaning and treating), rather than his PVC pipe storage method (PVC is expensive!). Like he says though, worst case, buying new membranes is always an option if my storage technique fails for some reason. Anybody else who has experience, please comment if willing! Link to Younblood video below: ruclips.net/video/h0g6zI-w7hk/видео.html
Great video! can you give a detailed diagram of your setup the video go's so fast! Also have you used a pressure switch for your pump? If so where would hook it up at? Sap side or pure water side?
Thanks, Dave. I have not used a pressure switch for pump, as I really didn’t have a need. We won’t have this thing out again until syrup season, and I want to condense it down so it’s lighter and simpler…a diagram would be a good idea!
You are so right caramelization does add a lot of robust flavor to syrup.I do 500-600 gallon batches and am now building an ro with two 4x40 membranes I have a 100 gph procon pump 100 gpm a prepump im not sure yet any ideas ? id like to go through a 5 micron then 1 micron. thanks for the info. . jon
You’re quite a bit bigger producer than us. I’m only making under 20 gal syrup a season. I wish I could give advice, but this was just our first season using RO. Sounds like you’ve got a good jump on it though!
Fantastic, video This looks really cool to do me and my daughter have about 20 or so trees. And we generally have to boil about 90 gallons to make one because were using swamp maples and rock maples. So I believe this will really cut down on my boiling time a lot we generally end up making a couple gallons of syrup, do you think this will be good for me? Thanks Fred
This was the best thing we did regarding our syrup production! I’d absolutely recommend. The only thing I’m not 100% on is effectively storing the membranes in the off-season. Lots of videos on that out there, but I’m not sure I’ve figured it out. But even so for me, it’s still worth it to buy new membranes each season. The firewood savings alone was incredible.
How many gallons per day GPD are those membranes? How often does the membranes clog up and have to do a flush? How many taps do you have? What is the size of your pan?
Hi Craig - Membranes are 150 GPD, I’ve run as much as 50 gallons of sap in a day without a problem, but I usually keep 5 gallons of permeate back and flush at the end of each day, which has worked well. We usually tap 15 or so trees and run around 40 to 50 taps. Last year this yielded us 400+ gallons of sap and over 12 gallons of finished syrup. My pan is 2 ft by 4 ft by 7 inches high. Hope this helps - let me know of any other questions!
@@birchfieldfarming nice that is going to be my setup for next year. I am going to do 40-50 taps with an RO. The size of my pan is 18x48 just because that is the size of oil tank I had.
@@BackyardDad1 That sounds like a good size pan and that you’re moving in the right direction! Best of luck on your set-up next year! Reach out if I can help.👍
Great video! I have a couple questions. I am looking to use this type of setup to reduce some craft soda syrups I make. I am looking to make them into a concentrate. This iwll allow me to make a larger batch of syrup on cooking day, and then add the concentrate to a keg before carbonating it. If i was to run my syrup through a filter to remove large particulates, do you think this system would work to make a concentrate?
Great question. It’s really hard to say b/c I think it would all depend on thickness of the liquid concentrate. Maple sap raw is almost like water, so I think it would be difficult with anything thicker.
Great video! We just started RO this season. We boil once a week and RO right before we boil. What would you suggest we do with the membranes between uses? What is the best way to store them?
I don’t do anything in between boils, and it works for me. Pump all the water thru the system, unscrew prefilter housing and let it dry. I’m still figuring things out tho in regards to storing membranes in the off-season.
@@birchfieldfarmingthank you for the response. So you just run some water through it and leave the membranes in the housing? Do you leave the caps on the housings or do you remove them?
@@tylergouveia9165I should probably clarify a couple things here: 1. I’m talking about short-term use/storage here, and I’m rarely ever going more than 3 or 4 days in between running’s during the sap flow season. 2. This is after running clean water permeate thru the system (10 gal or so) with a clean water 5 micron pre-filter installed. Yes, I just leave everything capped and in the housings for several days before the next sap run. A week seems like you might be pushing it though. Perhaps running tap water thru the system once or twice would help. If I leave membranes in filter housings for too long (yes, I’ve regrettably done this), talking for several months, I’ve had mold develop and a nasty smell. I had to buy new membranes in addition to taking everything apart and cleaning thoroughly. So for short term, as in a few days, I think you’re fine so long as you run clean water thru and pop off that pre-filter housing to air dry.
Good morning, I just completed my ro setup - built it exactly as you did. Thought it looked very well done! I'm having trouble reaching any sort of pressure though. Ive used all the same materials and permeate pump, but I did use 100GPD filters vs 150 GPD. Seems the best pressure I can achieve is 60PSI with the needle valve all the way closed and no discharge on the waste side. I'm stumped. Do you think I could have an air lock somewhere?
Couple things: Elevate your sap bucket before pump. Get it up above pump level. Also, when you first start pumping sap, open needle valve all the way open and bleed air for a few mins, then crank down needle. One other thing - Are you bleeding air in prefilter? If you bought the one I showed, it has a red button on top. When you’re first starting, open needle and watch that clear pre-filter housing fill with liquid. Hit that button until all the air is out. Hope this helps, let us know!
@@birchfieldfarming I suspect I may well have air trapped in the system. The prefilter I bought came without a bleed valve on the top...now I'm wondering how to get the air out of it. I did run the system for a fair while with the screw all the way open when I was initially filling the prefilter and the ro chambers.
@@Sean-f9e1wYeah, sounds like an airlock. Reminds me of the fuel filter on my diesel truck. Try filling the pre-filter completely full of sap before running. Did you have bubbles coming out of discharge hose when needle was fully open? Mine will do that for a few mins on start-up. I have to crank down needle and open and close for a few cycles.
Nice system! Do those membranes need to be backflushed? Or do they automatically do that? Also an interesting piece of info from the amazon link for your membrane - "[Tips] Recommend work pressure is 100 psi when using this product in a Maple Syrup reverse osmosis system. And we suggest heating and maintaining the raw sap at 104°F(40°C) to prevent clog on the membrane while keeping it under 113°F(45°C) to avoid damage to the membrane due to over-high temperature." Have a great day, God bless you and your family!
I noticed that info on the membranes as well. I haven’t had an issue yet running at 40°F. Not auto flush, so I save 5 gallons of permeate (clean water) and flush the system after each use. So far so good. Blessings your way as well!😀
We are only able to boil sap on the weekends, will the membranes be good to sit for a week after just a flush with the permeate? Or will we have to do a soap wash? Thank you for your video..happy boiling
That’s a really great question. I’ve come close to a week with just a permeate flush, so I think you’d be fine. What I’m noticing though is the pre-filter (5 micron) needs changed more often as we near the end of the season and it gets more buddy - sap seems cloudier, spoils quicker, and plugging that pre-filter much easier. Good luck to ya!
Flush with permeate every 3 days and you’re good to go. Use a preservative at the dnd of the season…remove the pre filter after each use…I soak mine in permeate between runs…and use a new one every 500 gal of sap
The purified water is EXCELLENT to drink! I made the unit almost a year ago, so I’m trying to think back…I may have come across something similar on another channel…point is, it worked great for our 30 to 40 or so taps! You can try less membranes, you just won’t pull as much water out per pass was my understanding.
Great fantastic thank you so much for getting back to me. I believe I’m going to build one in trade this year. I put a mainline in last year so I didn’t have to go get buckets so we’ll see what happens. Thanks again.
If the membrane can stop everything but the water.. and the everything else goes through a bypass. What keeps the water from going through the bypass with the rest of the stuff? Does it take more pressure to get out the dirty valve then it does to pass through the membrane?
I’m no RO expert, but from what I understand RO filters are ultra fine. I’ve actually heard the argument made that RO water isn’t good for you b/c it’s too pure, meaning minerals and such are filtered out. I have a valve I can crank down to “force” more or less clean water out, so yes I’m using pressure, about 100 psi when all is running right. All I know is it sends all the sugar to the junk side and leaves me with pure water on the permeate side. I know this b/c my sap hydrometer measures zero sugar every time on the permeate side, the junk side measures 6% to 7% sugar, and I’m starting with about 2.5% sugar out of the tree.
It’s actually a sap hydrometer. I learned the hard way there’s a syrup and a sap. My sap only goes 0 to 12 brix. I think mine came from Smoky Lake… www.smokylakemaple.com/product/sap-hydrometer-0-12-brix/
Trying to understand your question here. I don’t recall a check valve in my system, but I could be mistaken. Can you provide more details? Where is it located?
oddly im not having luck getting the pump to pull water into the system. im not using the same pump but it does look like a very similar functioning model
@@birchfieldfarming seems like its something about the RO filter. i disconnected it and there was no trouble sending water through the rest of the system
So being new to this after a filter, the sap through the RO. If I put the filtered sap in a refrigerator, how long will it keep before I have to boil? we’re very small scale, 20 or so trees so I can’t boil every day. I can only do it on the weekends. Thanks Fred
From my experience, it depends on the time of year harvested. The sap harvested at the beginning of the season always seems to last longer for us, but we have everything outside all the time too. I’d say try 48 hours to start. When it starts to get cloudy, you know you’re pushing the limits. That sap later in the season just never seems to last as long for us!
It’s tough. Mine always has a slow drip. I just put a container under to catch drips and empty back into sap bucket. I’ve tried numerous other valves and all have leaked worse than original needle valve, even RO valves. Let us know if you come up with something!
Is having pressure in the system a requirement? I’m having trouble with the separation aspect of the RO filter. There is only liquid coming out of one end of the RO filter. Do you know how I can fix this?
Yes, you must install a brass needle valve at the end and close at least part way to develop pressure. We run very close to 100 psi when operating correctly.
Hi Jason, still having trouble achieving anything above 70 psi with my discharge valve completely closed. Question, if I run at 25 psi I can equalize the flow from both hoses. Is that the end goal? I’m afraid to waste too much sap and I don’t really understand the actual science behind the pressure and filtration
Hey Sean, Sorry it’s not working right for you. You need something called a sap hydrometer to test what’s actually going on with your sap. It might be filtering fine just at different psi since you have different filters than mine. Here’s the hydrometer I use: www.smokylakemaple.com/product/sap-hydrometer-0-12-brix/ I have about 2.5% coming out of tree (raw sap), then I test after RO and have anywhere from 6.0% to 7.0%, so I know it’s working. But then I also like to manually test the permeate and it should always be zero…that way you know you’re not wasting sugar.
The RO is just pulling water out of the sap. It’s making really pure water called permeate, which is what’s passed thru the filters, but then sending everything else out what is normally the junk or drain side, which in our case is what we want to keep. The more pressure, the more filtering that can be done is the way I generally understand it.
@@Sean-f9e1wYes, drop in the hydrometer to a test cup of the liquid, and for permeate it should float at zero. If it’s even slightly above, you know you have some sap sugar in there.👍
Another question, the instructions on my membranes said that the permeate water in first hour of use should be discarded. do i also have to dump my concentrate in the first hour or just the permeate?
What I did was run tap water thru for an hour or so, then I went right into sap. Just discard whatever was produced by tap water, that way you’re not wasting sap concentrate!
If you do not run 150 gallons through this, can or do you keep the filters for next year after running clean water through it? I do not produce nearly this much and see that they make smaller filters but just curious.
I’ve had so many people ask this - and honestly, I don’t know. I’ve only had the system for a year. I purchased new filters this year, but I also may try and use the old. I left the old ones in place in the unit, and I’ve simply run water thru a few times throughout the year. The water was fine, but I’ll probably take one out and inspect it and decide whether I want to use my new ones or not. Main thing I’m worried about is mold. I should know very very soon.
Повторно бы прогнать сок, чтоб из 25 галлонов вышло около 8-10. Это заняло бы почти в три раза меньше времени, чем при перегонке 66 галлонов. И ещё больше дров бы сэкономил. Карамелизация всё равно происходит в самом конце уваривания, вкус бы не изменился.
@@birchfieldfarming в следующем сезоне попробуй. У вас уже кончили собирать сок в этом году? У нас ещё не начинали. Сегодня всё знегом засыпало. Зима не уходит.
@@birchfieldfarming ранняя у вас весна! Класс! У нас только в апреле более-менее теплеет и сок идет, Но кленов очень мало, сок с берез собирают. Его слегка сбраживают, он становится чуть кисловатый и такой пьют. В магазинах продается "березовый сок", ещё делают микс с яблочным соком, тоже вкусно. Да, у меня всё нормально, спасибо, брат. Кленовый сироп я никогда не пробовал, у нас его нет совсем, кленовый сок однажды в детстве пробовал, очень вкусно, более сладкий, чем березовый. У моей жены был дом и земельный участок, то я там посадил клены, хотел их вырастить и иногда добывать немного сока, чтобы вспомнить вкус детства. Но в 2020 году продали дом, купили квартиру детям в Минске.
@@MadebyBelarus Ok, I’ve heard of Birch syrup but never tried it. I’d always heard the Birch tapping season was later than Maple. Hey, if you are ever in Ohio, USA come by for a taste of Maple, friend!
Great question, and I should’ve added this link to original post. I’m assuming you just mean the weight in the bottom of the original sap bucket? It’s just a standard garden hose fitting to 1/4” hose compression fitting. Here’s a link: ZKZX 3/4" GHT Garden Hose Thread Female to 1/4" OD Compression Brass Connector, Faucet to Hose Adapter 2PCS a.co/d/3OQS4rH
@@RB-ni8vmI wish I had more direction for you on how to store. Mine failed in the off-season. This year I’m going to try vacuum sealing at the end of season.
Hi, we ordered everything and are getting ready to install the membranes. Not very good directions with them. Do we need to remove the blue wrap around them with the sticker?
Hey, you guys aren’t messing around! I don’t recall removing a blue wrapper. I think they came shrink wrapped and that was all we cut and removed. Best of luck with it!
@@tontospirit Just popped the top off one of mine, and I can confirm I did leave the blue plastic with model number ON. I did NOT remove it, and obviously everything worked fine for my season. Hope this helps, and good luck! Let us know how it does.
Good question - You could certainly do just 2 or 3 filters, but I doubt there would be a single pass jump from 2% to 6.5%/7% sugar. My goal was to run one pass and eliminate at least half my water. 4 had me at about a 62% reduction.
Great job explaining how your R.O. works!
Very informative.
Simple and easy to understand.
Thank you. It is a huge help.
Thanks Tim! Best of luck with your system.
Fun, they tried grape juice back in the day but the tartrates would rupture the RO membrane. Used to run a three effect vacuum plate in frame unit. The first effect fed a 4 story fractionating column to save the esters (flavor). Always wanted to run sap through that machine but it would take every trees sap in the county just to fire it up.😂
Amazing!🤠
Thank you so much for your detailed video. I built a RO system very similar to yours. It works great! I made it easy to install understand and I appreciate the stats. I am getting similar results! Thanks again!
You made it Not I. Lol
You got it, thanks for watching. I hope your season’s going well!🤠
Thank you for the primer. Been thinking about this as the sap flow exceeds my evaporate rate. And then save the "waste" product [purified water] as the makeup water for my home heating system.
You got it! Sounds like a great idea.
pretty sweet. i didn’t know you could just build your own ro system like that. we have one at home and now putting them in our stores.
No better way to filter water, IMO. Some even say it’s too pure
@birchfieldfarming it is too pure and actually becomes acidic which can cause harm to your body if consumed for too long and too much. As for being too pure, RO removes all the minerals and electrolytes which our body needs. Your body doesn't get hydrated the way it should.
@@tylerwhite4743I don’t buy the too pure thing, as we can get minerals and such from food/supplement consumption.
Thanks for the video I'm up in ME and just built one of these machines and im learning how to best run it. I'm starting with only about 1.5% sap so it takes a bit longer to get up to that 6 or so % range. The online forums say you can get at most about 9-10% just due to the science behind the RO process and how water is removed. I think the sizing of the system is the most important depending on how you plan on using it. I am removing about 2 gph of permiate which is about the same as my boil rate in a lobster pot over the wood fire but I would like do do it abit faster so I don't have to run the RO quite as long to get a batch ready to boil. in any event utilizing the process is a huge benefit especialy when you don't want your hobby to turn into a full time job. Cheers
You’re absolutely right - it’s been a game changer for our small operation. Kevin, are you guys still running sap up there? We’ve had kind of a slow season with temps above normal (early Spring?). I’m thinking our season may end this weekend because of the warmer weather. Sounds like you’ve got a set-up that’s working for you, which is all that matters.
@@birchfieldfarming it ran for about 2 weeks mid janruary so I decided to tap but the freezer turned back on and its been single digit temps for a week so everyting froze back up. Things just getting started up here for most people about in the first week of march. i just ordered some larger membranes wich should speed things up for me so we'll see how it goes.
@@kevindavison6019 Very nice, good luck with your season! We’re finishing up down here. Not our best season, but we made what we needed to.
@@kevindavison6019 where in maine are you at. We sugar down in buxton. Looking to set up a ro as we are around 200 taps it takes alot of wood
@@joshs4561 Im just outside of bangor so our weather is a couple of weeks behind you. I'm running the machine today I collected 110 gallons of sap yesterday and hoping to get it down to about 30 gallons of concentrate to boil tomorow after the storm. good luck with your shugaring. P. S. I just upgraded my membranes to 400 gpd membranes it was totally worth it I can process 55 gals of sap from 1.5-7% in about 6 hours. the cost difference is neglagable if your sourcing components.
Just a regular fitting for plastic tubing. Works quite well.
Thanks! I’ll give it a shot!🤠
I made & used this very system this year. Worked great. My only struggle was putting all the thoughts out there to shut down for next season. Will you show us what you did when done. Thanks. Great explanation.
I’m so thrilled this worked for you! Thanks for reporting back. There have been enough requests for an end of season storage video that I’d like to put something together. I’ll see what I can do.
Hope you guys are doing well, especially in light of recent events up there. Maranatha from Oxford, MS
We’re doing just fine! Thank you for checking in. Maranatha!
Thanks!
Thanks Stephen! Best of luck with the upcoming season!
@@birchfieldfarming Your video and shopping list got me steered in the right direction. I've located the remaining fittings, so am all good to order the RO parts now. Thanks for the great video...
Great video, got me to thinking that I need to do the same thing. Have you thought about wrapping some copper tubing around your stovepipe and running the sap through it before it reaches your prewarming pot?
So funny you say that - I actually have the copper, just haven’t installed.🤠
You can put the filter before the pump. The pump has enough pull to do that. That way you can protect the pump from any debris in the sap. Not sure how big a deal it is, but that's the way I run mine.
I’ll have to try that, thanks for the idea!
One more question. I’m having a hard time finding the fittings for the filter? 3/8npt I assume would go to 1/4 push connect? Did you find them on Amazon? Ty
Yes, here are the ones I used: Malida Male Push To Connect Tube... www.amazon.com/dp/B01M9B6LL3?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share
I had a heck of a time stopping leaks from the threaded portion tho. I had to Teflon tape the crud out of them! Very poorly made Chinese cheapness. I’ll be making a trip to the hardware and rigging up something with brass threads before next season.
@@birchfieldfarming thanks for the heads-up on that.
Replaced the plastic tubing with 1/4" copper tubing. No more leaks. I can send you a picture if you want.
Great idea! Yes, the 1/4 needle valve would work much better with copper, but did you then join the copper tubing back up to plastic? If so, with what fitting? Thanks for sharing!
Any adviice on shutting down the system at end of season would be appreciated.
From John in Morgans Point On.
Hi John,
Youngblood did a video on this - pretty short, simple, cost effective storage method using hydrogen peroxide. I’ll probably follow something similar. The membranes came vacuum sealed, so I may try sealing them up individually with my food saver (after cleaning and treating), rather than his PVC pipe storage method (PVC is expensive!). Like he says though, worst case, buying new membranes is always an option if my storage technique fails for some reason. Anybody else who has experience, please comment if willing! Link to Younblood video below:
ruclips.net/video/h0g6zI-w7hk/видео.html
Thanks. Will check it out.
@@johnlott9111 I an storing in a cat litter bucket with wood blocks on top to keep filters submerged.
Great video! can you give a detailed diagram of your setup the video go's so fast! Also have you used a pressure switch for your pump? If so where would hook it up at? Sap side or pure water side?
Thanks, Dave. I have not used a pressure switch for pump, as I really didn’t have a need. We won’t have this thing out again until syrup season, and I want to condense it down so it’s lighter and simpler…a diagram would be a good idea!
You are so right caramelization does add a lot of robust flavor to syrup.I do 500-600 gallon batches and am now building an ro with two 4x40 membranes I have a 100 gph procon pump 100 gpm a prepump im not sure yet any ideas ? id like to go through a 5 micron then 1 micron. thanks for the info. . jon
You’re quite a bit bigger producer than us. I’m only making under 20 gal syrup a season. I wish I could give advice, but this was just our first season using RO. Sounds like you’ve got a good jump on it though!
@@birchfieldfarming We did 7000 gallons sap 27 days 211 gallon syrup all has wonderful flavor and burned a ton of wood 20 yrs of cooking and love it !
@@ElmhorstJ Wow, that’s incredible!! How many trees?
Fantastic, video This looks really cool to do me and my daughter have about 20 or so trees. And we generally have to boil about 90 gallons to make one because were using swamp maples and rock maples. So I believe this will really cut down on my boiling time a lot we generally end up making a couple gallons of syrup, do you think this will be good for me? Thanks
Fred
This was the best thing we did regarding our syrup production! I’d absolutely recommend. The only thing I’m not 100% on is effectively storing the membranes in the off-season. Lots of videos on that out there, but I’m not sure I’ve figured it out. But even so for me, it’s still worth it to buy new membranes each season. The firewood savings alone was incredible.
Why use several small ro membranes vs a 4”x40” ?? Contemplating 2 units and running a low psi into a high pressure pump
I have no idea. This is what was available, so I went with it. Worked great, but maybe you can improve. Keep us posted!!
How many gallons per day GPD are those membranes? How often does the membranes clog up and have to do a flush? How many taps do you have? What is the size of your pan?
Hi Craig - Membranes are 150 GPD, I’ve run as much as 50 gallons of sap in a day without a problem, but I usually keep 5 gallons of permeate back and flush at the end of each day, which has worked well. We usually tap 15 or so trees and run around 40 to 50 taps. Last year this yielded us 400+ gallons of sap and over 12 gallons of finished syrup. My pan is 2 ft by 4 ft by 7 inches high.
Hope this helps - let me know of any other questions!
@@birchfieldfarming nice that is going to be my setup for next year. I am going to do 40-50 taps with an RO. The size of my pan is 18x48 just because that is the size of oil tank I had.
@@BackyardDad1 That sounds like a good size pan and that you’re moving in the right direction! Best of luck on your set-up next year! Reach out if I can help.👍
Nice setup!
Thanks!🤠
Great video! I have a couple questions. I am looking to use this type of setup to reduce some craft soda syrups I make. I am looking to make them into a concentrate. This iwll allow me to make a larger batch of syrup on cooking day, and then add the concentrate to a keg before carbonating it. If i was to run my syrup through a filter to remove large particulates, do you think this system would work to make a concentrate?
Great question. It’s really hard to say b/c I think it would all depend on thickness of the liquid concentrate. Maple sap raw is almost like water, so I think it would be difficult with anything thicker.
Great video! We just started RO this season. We boil once a week and RO right before we boil. What would you suggest we do with the membranes between uses? What is the best way to store them?
I don’t do anything in between boils, and it works for me. Pump all the water thru the system, unscrew prefilter housing and let it dry. I’m still figuring things out tho in regards to storing membranes in the off-season.
@@birchfieldfarmingthank you for the response. So you just run some water through it and leave the membranes in the housing? Do you leave the caps on the housings or do you remove them?
@@tylergouveia9165I should probably clarify a couple things here: 1. I’m talking about short-term use/storage here, and I’m rarely ever going more than 3 or 4 days in between running’s during the sap flow season.
2. This is after running clean water permeate thru the system (10 gal or so) with a clean water 5 micron pre-filter installed.
Yes, I just leave everything capped and in the housings for several days before the next sap run. A week seems like you might be pushing it though. Perhaps running tap water thru the system once or twice would help. If I leave membranes in filter housings for too long (yes, I’ve regrettably done this), talking for several months, I’ve had mold develop and a nasty smell. I had to buy new membranes in addition to taking everything apart and cleaning thoroughly. So for short term, as in a few days, I think you’re fine so long as you run clean water thru and pop off that pre-filter housing to air dry.
Good morning, I just completed my ro setup - built it exactly as you did. Thought it looked very well done!
I'm having trouble reaching any sort of pressure though. Ive used all the same materials and permeate pump, but I did use 100GPD filters vs 150 GPD. Seems the best pressure I can achieve is 60PSI with the needle valve all the way closed and no discharge on the waste side. I'm stumped. Do you think I could have an air lock somewhere?
Couple things: Elevate your sap bucket before pump. Get it up above pump level. Also, when you first start pumping sap, open needle valve all the way open and bleed air for a few mins, then crank down needle. One other thing - Are you bleeding air in prefilter? If you bought the one I showed, it has a red button on top. When you’re first starting, open needle and watch that clear pre-filter housing fill with liquid. Hit that button until all the air is out. Hope this helps, let us know!
@@birchfieldfarming I suspect I may well have air trapped in the system. The prefilter I bought came without a bleed valve on the top...now I'm wondering how to get the air out of it.
I did run the system for a fair while with the screw all the way open when I was initially filling the prefilter and the ro chambers.
@@Sean-f9e1wYeah, sounds like an airlock. Reminds me of the fuel filter on my diesel truck. Try filling the pre-filter completely full of sap before running. Did you have bubbles coming out of discharge hose when needle was fully open? Mine will do that for a few mins on start-up. I have to crank down needle and open and close for a few cycles.
Nice system! Do those membranes need to be backflushed? Or do they automatically do that?
Also an interesting piece of info from the amazon link for your membrane -
"[Tips] Recommend work pressure is 100 psi when using this product in a Maple Syrup reverse osmosis system. And we suggest heating and maintaining the raw sap at 104°F(40°C) to prevent clog on the membrane while keeping it under 113°F(45°C) to avoid damage to the membrane due to over-high temperature."
Have a great day, God bless you and your family!
I noticed that info on the membranes as well. I haven’t had an issue yet running at 40°F. Not auto flush, so I save 5 gallons of permeate (clean water) and flush the system after each use. So far so good. Blessings your way as well!😀
At 7:20 he describes the flushing with permeate, or clean water.
We are only able to boil sap on the weekends, will the membranes be good to sit for a week after just a flush with the permeate? Or will we have to do a soap wash? Thank you for your video..happy boiling
That’s a really great question. I’ve come close to a week with just a permeate flush, so I think you’d be fine. What I’m noticing though is the pre-filter (5 micron) needs changed more often as we near the end of the season and it gets more buddy - sap seems cloudier, spoils quicker, and plugging that pre-filter much easier. Good luck to ya!
Thank you!
Flush with permeate every 3 days and you’re good to go. Use a preservative at the dnd of the season…remove the pre filter after each use…I soak mine in permeate between runs…and use a new one every 500 gal of sap
@@billchriswell2925 Thanks, Bill! Good info here.
Just curious, how did you come up with the 4 filters? Why not 2 why not 6? Is purified water good to drink?
The purified water is EXCELLENT to drink! I made the unit almost a year ago, so I’m trying to think back…I may have come across something similar on another channel…point is, it worked great for our 30 to 40 or so taps! You can try less membranes, you just won’t pull as much water out per pass was my understanding.
Great fantastic thank you so much for getting back to me. I believe I’m going to build one in trade this year. I put a mainline in last year so I didn’t have to go get buckets so we’ll see what happens. Thanks again.
If the membrane can stop everything but the water.. and the everything else goes through a bypass. What keeps the water from going through the bypass with the rest of the stuff? Does it take more pressure to get out the dirty valve then it does to pass through the membrane?
I’m no RO expert, but from what I understand RO filters are ultra fine. I’ve actually heard the argument made that RO water isn’t good for you b/c it’s too pure, meaning minerals and such are filtered out. I have a valve I can crank down to “force” more or less clean water out, so yes I’m using pressure, about 100 psi when all is running right. All I know is it sends all the sugar to the junk side and leaves me with pure water on the permeate side. I know this b/c my sap hydrometer measures zero sugar every time on the permeate side, the junk side measures 6% to 7% sugar, and I’m starting with about 2.5% sugar out of the tree.
How do you flush the system? Do you just run the permeate though the same line as you ran the sap through?
Correct, run that clean water thru at the end.
What kind of hydrometer is that your using to measure the sugar. I have one but just has braum and brix on it
It’s actually a sap hydrometer. I learned the hard way there’s a syrup and a sap. My sap only goes 0 to 12 brix. I think mine came from Smoky Lake…
www.smokylakemaple.com/product/sap-hydrometer-0-12-brix/
Ok thk you very much
@@jasonthomas-zx7ns You got it, good luck!
Do you reverse the check valve ? No one ever mentions that ?
Trying to understand your question here. I don’t recall a check valve in my system, but I could be mistaken. Can you provide more details? Where is it located?
oddly im not having luck getting the pump to pull water into the system. im not using the same pump but it does look like a very similar functioning model
Try elevating the sap container before the pump, mine always pulls better when that incoming sap bucket is at or above pump level.
thank you! Ill give it a shot@@birchfieldfarming
@@birchfieldfarming seems like its something about the RO filter. i disconnected it and there was no trouble sending water through the rest of the system
love it ,thanks !
You got it⚡️
So being new to this after a filter, the sap through the RO. If I put the filtered sap in a refrigerator, how long will it keep before I have to boil? we’re very small scale, 20 or so trees so I can’t boil every day. I can only do it on the weekends. Thanks
Fred
From my experience, it depends on the time of year harvested. The sap harvested at the beginning of the season always seems to last longer for us, but we have everything outside all the time too. I’d say try 48 hours to start. When it starts to get cloudy, you know you’re pushing the limits. That sap later in the season just never seems to last as long for us!
Great thanks! so cloudy get ya. I’m still learning. Thanks for the help.
@@fredA1234Go by smell as well. When it gets cloudy and smells off, then discard - apply to garden or compost and the soil microbes will approve!
how do you get the needle valve to be a tight fit?
It’s tough. Mine always has a slow drip. I just put a container under to catch drips and empty back into sap bucket. I’ve tried numerous other valves and all have leaked worse than original needle valve, even RO valves. Let us know if you come up with something!
Is having pressure in the system a requirement? I’m having trouble with the separation aspect of the RO filter. There is only liquid coming out of one end of the RO filter. Do you know how I can fix this?
Yes, you must install a brass needle valve at the end and close at least part way to develop pressure. We run very close to 100 psi when operating correctly.
Look at 5:13, that’s the needle valve on the sap (or junk) line, NOT the permeate side.
Sounds good. Thank you for clarifying! Working on a new Maple Syrup Club at Michigan Tech so your video really helps!
@@adventurestudios2022That’s awesome! My email’s in channel description, so reach out if there’s anything else I can do. Best of luck!
Hi Jason, still having trouble achieving anything above 70 psi with my discharge valve completely closed.
Question, if I run at 25 psi I can equalize the flow from both hoses. Is that the end goal? I’m afraid to waste too much sap and I don’t really understand the actual science behind the pressure and filtration
Hey Sean,
Sorry it’s not working right for you. You need something called a sap hydrometer to test what’s actually going on with your sap. It might be filtering fine just at different psi since you have different filters than mine. Here’s the hydrometer I use: www.smokylakemaple.com/product/sap-hydrometer-0-12-brix/
I have about 2.5% coming out of tree (raw sap), then I test after RO and have anywhere from 6.0% to 7.0%, so I know it’s working. But then I also like to manually test the permeate and it should always be zero…that way you know you’re not wasting sugar.
The RO is just pulling water out of the sap. It’s making really pure water called permeate, which is what’s passed thru the filters, but then sending everything else out what is normally the junk or drain side, which in our case is what we want to keep. The more pressure, the more filtering that can be done is the way I generally understand it.
How do you test the permeate? Are you using your hydrometer?
@@Sean-f9e1wYes, drop in the hydrometer to a test cup of the liquid, and for permeate it should float at zero. If it’s even slightly above, you know you have some sap sugar in there.👍
For the cost difference in a 150 vers a 400 filter. Is bigger better with the same pump? I was thinking 2 of the 400 filters.
I haven’t tried it. If you do, swing back around and tell us how it goes!
Another question, the instructions on my membranes said that the permeate water in first hour of use should be discarded. do i also have to dump my concentrate in the first hour or just the permeate?
What I did was run tap water thru for an hour or so, then I went right into sap. Just discard whatever was produced by tap water, that way you’re not wasting sap concentrate!
@@birchfieldfarming perfect. i was thinking that would be fine but wasn’t sure. thanks for the clarification
@@ZachAdventuresYou got it!👍
Job well done....
Thanks!…hope it helps someone out there
If you get about a 200 gallon holding tank you can let it do its own thing over night.
Time to scale up!🤠
If you do not run 150 gallons through this, can or do you keep the filters for next year after running clean water through it? I do not produce nearly this much and see that they make smaller filters but just curious.
I’ve had so many people ask this - and honestly, I don’t know. I’ve only had the system for a year. I purchased new filters this year, but I also may try and use the old. I left the old ones in place in the unit, and I’ve simply run water thru a few times throughout the year. The water was fine, but I’ll probably take one out and inspect it and decide whether I want to use my new ones or not. Main thing I’m worried about is mold. I should know very very soon.
Повторно бы прогнать сок, чтоб из 25 галлонов вышло около 8-10. Это заняло бы почти в три раза меньше времени, чем при перегонке 66 галлонов. И ещё больше дров бы сэкономил. Карамелизация всё равно происходит в самом конце уваривания, вкус бы не изменился.
Interesting, I wonder what my sugar would jump to with one more pass like you’re saying?
@@birchfieldfarming в следующем сезоне попробуй. У вас уже кончили собирать сок в этом году? У нас ещё не начинали. Сегодня всё знегом засыпало. Зима не уходит.
@@MadebyBelarus Yes, we finished up our season about a week ago. Hope yours goes well!
@@birchfieldfarming ранняя у вас весна! Класс! У нас только в апреле более-менее теплеет и сок идет, Но кленов очень мало, сок с берез собирают. Его слегка сбраживают, он становится чуть кисловатый и такой пьют. В магазинах продается "березовый сок", ещё делают микс с яблочным соком, тоже вкусно. Да, у меня всё нормально, спасибо, брат.
Кленовый сироп я никогда не пробовал, у нас его нет совсем, кленовый сок однажды в детстве пробовал, очень вкусно, более сладкий, чем березовый. У моей жены был дом и земельный участок, то я там посадил клены, хотел их вырастить и иногда добывать немного сока, чтобы вспомнить вкус детства. Но в 2020 году продали дом, купили квартиру детям в Минске.
@@MadebyBelarus Ok, I’ve heard of Birch syrup but never tried it. I’d always heard the Birch tapping season was later than Maple. Hey, if you are ever in Ohio, USA come by for a taste of Maple, friend!
Great thanks so much
Best of luck with it, Fred!
I have searched everywhere and maybe i’m not wording it right when i search it, but where did you get your weights for your lines?
Great question, and I should’ve added this link to original post. I’m assuming you just mean the weight in the bottom of the original sap bucket? It’s just a standard garden hose fitting to 1/4” hose compression fitting. Here’s a link: ZKZX 3/4" GHT Garden Hose Thread Female to 1/4" OD Compression Brass Connector, Faucet to Hose Adapter 2PCS a.co/d/3OQS4rH
@@birchfieldfarming i was talking about the weight to keep the hose down in the bucket/tank so it stays in there
@@ZachAdventuresyeah, that’s what I linked to
@@birchfieldfarming my bad i didn’t see the link the first time. would help if i clicked the see more button. lol. thank you
@@ZachAdventuresYou got it, best of luck with your season!
How do you clean the membranes?
Run the permeate back thru
Thank for the reply. I did that as well as warm water. Just got them out and they aren't working as well as they did. Maybe I stored them incorrectly.
@@RB-ni8vmI wish I had more direction for you on how to store. Mine failed in the off-season. This year I’m going to try vacuum sealing at the end of season.
Great thank you
👍👍
What size hose and kind is it
It’s DIY, all the links to parts are in description
Hi, we ordered everything and are getting ready to install the membranes. Not very good directions with them. Do we need to remove the blue wrap around them with the sticker?
Hey, you guys aren’t messing around! I don’t recall removing a blue wrapper. I think they came shrink wrapped and that was all we cut and removed. Best of luck with it!
@@birchfieldfarming Yes we are on it! Lol We didn’t know if the sticker on the actual membrane was supposed to come off, says the model number on it.
@@tontospirit Just popped the top off one of mine, and I can confirm I did leave the blue plastic with model number ON. I did NOT remove it, and obviously everything worked fine for my season. Hope this helps, and good luck! Let us know how it does.
@@birchfieldfarming Thank you! We can’t wait to fire it up :-) thanks for all the help
@@tontospirit Are you guys in the States or up North? Our season is done, so I’m just curious where the sap is still running right now.
Why four filters instead of two, or three?
Good question - You could certainly do just 2 or 3 filters, but I doubt there would be a single pass jump from 2% to 6.5%/7% sugar. My goal was to run one pass and eliminate at least half my water. 4 had me at about a 62% reduction.
Great thanks
👍👍